1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Hey, listeners, just a heads up. This is a long 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: one because we're giving you two episodes in one this week, 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: so listen for parts one and two. In our very 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: first episode, I said that I hadn't been able to 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: get anyone from Paladin to talk to me. We've tried 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: a lot of former employees and authors, and everybody seemed hesitant. 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: But over the last two weeks we got some replies. 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: My name is David du Bro. I worked for Paladin 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: Press between and two thousand and ten. David grew up 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: in a suburb outside Philadelphia. A few years after he 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: graduated from college, he was working in a supermarket and 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: he needed a change. At the time, I was very 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: much into fantasy role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons, 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Not necessarily D and D, but 15 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, fantasy role playing text based over the internet 16 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: called a telnut protocol. He made some friends through this 17 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: online game called Amber. They invited him out to Colorado, 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: and he figured, what the hell, Okay, I'm going to 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: drive out there and I'm gonna see if I can 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: make my life out in Colorado. At the time, there 21 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: was no monster, there was no linked in, so you 22 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: went looking for a real job through the one edge 23 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: of the paper. I know it sounds kind of ancient, 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: but that was what we did. David answered a nondescript 25 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: ad for an entry level customer service gig and got 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: an interview, and that company was paled and press. It 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: was very kind of secretive, is very kind of hush 28 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: hash I didn't know at the time what I was 29 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: getting into. So far in this podcast, we've spent a 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: lot of time on the triple murder for higher case 31 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: of Millie and Trevor Horn and Janice Saunders. When we 32 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: last left you, Lawrence Horn and James Perry were both 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: found guilty of murder and conspiracy to commit murder. So 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,279 Speaker 1: the two men responsible for this crime would be paying 35 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: for it for the rest of their lives. Meanwhile, the 36 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: media couldn't stop talking about hit Man. Grew some triple 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: murder shocked the Washington, D C. Area. Today, it has 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: become the subject of a First Amendment fight over a 39 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: how to book. The killer apparently went by the book 40 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: This book, hit Man, a technical manual for independent contractor. 41 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: It's a very compelling correlation between the way these murders 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: were carried out and the suggestions in the book. Now 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: family members want the Murder Manuals publisher to pay. All 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: that attention introduced a lot of people to Paladin and 45 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: its enigmatic owner, Paider Lund. So I go out there 46 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: and I do this interview, and the owner of the 47 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: company he's there. He's he's wearing these like short pants 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: and his polo shirt, and he's got a handgun on 49 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: the desk. What's funny is that on this upper middle 50 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: class Jewish kid from Philly, things like self defense and 51 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: martial arts and knife fighting, they're they're not relevant to 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: my life experience, like guns or what other people do. Still, 53 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: he was intrigued, and they showed me a catalog and 54 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: they said, all right, well, why don't you take a 55 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: look at it and then tomorrow, UM, we'll call you 56 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: back if you're still interested. And I did, and I 57 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: was like, this is neat stuff. I mean, you know, 58 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: I'm a young man. I could either do customer service 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: for a company that publishes these kinds of books and videos, 60 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: or I could be you know, the executive assistant of 61 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: you know, the Boulder Philharmonic orchestra conductor. I'm like, all right, 62 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: there's no real competition here, So I started that next week. 63 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: David says the company wasn't quite what you'd expect from 64 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: the content. Peter was very adamant about not hiring a 65 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: bunch of Cammi clad wackos, which is, you know how 66 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: we kind of called it. There was at least as 67 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: many women as men who worked for Paladin Press. The 68 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: vast majority of the people worked for Palden didn't have 69 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: a real interest in the subject matter, which was kind 70 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: of interesting sometimes to work around. But it was amazingly 71 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: prosaic how boring the office work was. It wasn't like 72 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: everybody was walking around with a R fifteen slung over 73 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: his back, that kind of thing. A Washington Post article 74 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: from the year David was high described Lund sitting in 75 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: a modest office at an old wooden desk, with his 76 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: green beret tacked to the wall, piles of manuscripts everywhere. 77 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: Peter wasn't a big guy either, but he had this 78 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: fierce face, heard these eyebrows, and if he was mad 79 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: with you, you would know it. I never played poker 80 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: with him, but I imagine I would probably be able 81 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: to beat him a few times, just because he wouldn't 82 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: keep it off his face. Lund wore reading glasses in 83 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: knee high socks. He'd spent half the year residing in 84 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: a fourteenth century cottage in the Cotswolds, England, where he 85 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: hunted pheasant and trained a race horse named Miss Optimist. 86 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: Not exactly what I pictured. This was London his late fifties. Well, 87 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: Peter was an engaging fellow in terrorism expert Neil Livingstone 88 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: was a consultant for the ABC News show, and he 89 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: helped produce an episode about Lundon Palette and Press. He 90 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: and a crew flew to Boulder and spent the day 91 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: with lund in his office. I found Peter to be 92 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: pull eight, unassuming, unpretentious. He ran a very neat business, 93 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: very you know, it's very clean and very well organized 94 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: and so on. He described the things that he publishes 95 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: burning blow books, how to burn things down and blow 96 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: things up. He was rather un phased by the notion 97 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: that his books might be used by terrorists or killers. 98 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: He said that we don't tell people how to use 99 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: the information. Honestly, there's a lot we don't know about 100 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: paydirt class in Lundon. Even after all this time we 101 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: know he was born in nineteen two. Livingstone told us 102 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: he was born in South Africa, but he couldn't actually 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: remember if that was right. He was married four times, 104 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: according to a Washington Post article, and didn't have any kids. 105 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: His military records are impressive. He served in the U. S. 106 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: Army from nineteen sixty four to nineteen sixty eight and 107 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: then in the Army Reserve for two more years. He 108 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: was recognized as an expert gunner and a sharpshooter, and 109 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: he was a decorated veteran, having received the National Defense 110 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, Purple Heart, Parachute Badge, and 111 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: the Bronze Star, among others. And he was quoted in 112 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: a Soldier of Fortune magazine article as saying he was 113 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: an infantry platoon leader and rose to be commander of 114 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: a Special Forces A team and was in charge of 115 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: stopping North Vietnamese supply roots. And that's about all we have, 116 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: at least about his life before Paladin Lund called himself 117 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: a classic individualist, and he really was. You know, he's 118 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: wearing his shorts and his polo shirt. He's got this 119 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: revolver on his on his desk, you know, and it's like, 120 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: this is the closest I've ever been to a handgun 121 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: that hasn't been inside a police officers holster. And and 122 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: the thing is, he always had a handgun on a 123 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: desk until we changed, you know, cleaning services, and then 124 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: it became kind of an issue. But he had a 125 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: very strong feeling about the First Amendment and how inviolate 126 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: it was. I mean, he was you know, he was 127 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: who he was, and if he didn't like him, you 128 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: could eatch it and die. I'm Jasmine Morris from My 129 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Hit Home Media. This is hit many. 130 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: You know. It was early days of internet when I started. 131 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: At the time, we got to order through the mail 132 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: and via telephone. Mostly through the mail, we would send 133 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: out catalogs for free to anybody. We got plenty of 134 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: requests for catalogs from people who were in prison. You know. 135 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: I guess it was kind of like a jerk off 136 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: magazine for for violence instead of porn, you know. But um, 137 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: it just had the products and the covers and stuff. 138 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: You didn't have any real content to speak of. Playboy 139 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: Magazine once called Paladin quote the most dangerous publisher in America, 140 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: and it was a nickname that stuck. It does make 141 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: a good kind of tagline, right, that's something that you 142 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: can use to impress people who were impressed by that. 143 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: You know, we didn't call ourselves the most dangerous publisher 144 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: in America. We called ourselves the Action Library, and I 145 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: think that was a term of art that Peter created, 146 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: and that's what it was about. It was about, you know, 147 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: action versus danger, which is different. There's a value judgment 148 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: and danger when you think about it. Okay, what does 149 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: that mean? Dangerous? Publisher? Information isn't dangerous. That's what you 150 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: do with it, that's dangerous. Paladin Press was just the 151 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: small independent publisher serving a niche audience in a liberal 152 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: college town in Colorado, but it would become so influential 153 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: in ways that most independent publishers never could and never 154 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: would dream of. Unfortunately, Peter Lund died in two thousand seventeen, 155 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: so we can't hear from him directly. One person we 156 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: reached out to for more insight into Lund's life insisted 157 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: that we talked to Robert K. Brown, the publisher of 158 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: the Mercenary magazine Soldier of Fortune, who he said, new 159 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: Lund better than most. The next day, we got a 160 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: call from a Boulder, Colorado phone number and a gruff 161 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: but friendly voice on the other end introduced himself is 162 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: Bob Brown. Brown is eighty six now. He's sharp, very polite, 163 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: and he refers to get straight to the point. He 164 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: heard we were doing a story on Paladin and Lund 165 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: and he was calling us back because his friend said 166 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: we were good people. The call was quick. Brown is 167 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: quite hard of hearing, so phone calls are difficult these days, 168 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: and he respectfully declined to be interviewed, but he offered 169 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: to email us some information on Paladin and Lund and 170 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: with an okay, Darlin, the call was over. The two 171 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: men met back in the early nineteen sixties. Brown was 172 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: about ten years older than Lundon, but they both had 173 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: military backgrounds and were attracted to the idea of mercenary 174 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: work fighting communism in foreign countries. Most of the time. 175 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: Brown mentions lund in his memoir I Am Soldier of Fortune, 176 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: it's about these near misses adventures they almost had. There 177 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: was the plot to invade Cuba and rescue some refugees 178 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: that was back in Miami in nineteen sixty three, But 179 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: it plays like a Looney Tunes adventure where their boat 180 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: gets stuck in the mud. They didn't pack enough food 181 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: and the guns didn't show up. In time, there was 182 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: a treasure hunt in Papua New Guinea, gold supposedly hidden 183 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: by a crooked priest. The time they tried to parachute 184 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: into Peru to deliver aid to a secluded mountain village 185 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: buried by a landslide. Brown actually laid the groundwork for 186 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: Paladin himself in nineteen sixty three, the same year he 187 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: tried to invade Cuba with one. First of all, what 188 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: was Paladin Pressed? This was a book company that put 189 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: out books for soldiers, put up books on how to 190 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: build bombs. Here's Brown on a Colorado public affairs show. 191 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: And it was also not very popular, definitely not well. 192 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: It was an offshoot of a publishing company I started 193 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: way back in nineteen sixty three when I published a 194 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: book called A hundred and fifty Questions for Guerrilla. Back then, 195 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: Brown called his publishing house Panther Publications. Paladin's website once 196 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: said this early work really set the tone for the 197 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: publisher's future. Quote it would be first to print books 198 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: about controversial or suppressed subjects, and it would also be 199 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: criticized for publishing works that some people found objectionable. Brown 200 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: is an adventurous and charismatic Vietnam vet with a colorful 201 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: military history. We found him on the Army Register from 202 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: nine and in various interviews and in his memoir I 203 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: Am Soldier of Fortune, Brown talks about serving in the 204 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: Army in the fifties and eventually rising to lieutenant colonel 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: and intelligence. He says he was also kicked out of 206 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: the Special Forces twice. He debbled in journalism, picking up 207 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: freelance assignments for the Associated Press, and he once told 208 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: a reporter that he planned to in script his tombstone 209 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: with his motto, slay dragons, do noble deeds, and never never, never, 210 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: never give up. When Brown first started Panther Publications, he 211 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: was mostly publishing military manuals like the Special Forces Handbook. 212 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: They were publishing military manuals because they weren't classified, they 213 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: had free material to use. That's Michigan State professor and Larabee, 214 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: an expert on bomb making manuals. There's an Army manual 215 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: called booby Traps, for example, that really dangerous stuff comes 216 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: from directly reprinted army manuals. Or they would somehow take 217 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: them and rearrange them and cabled them together in some 218 00:12:54,640 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: way to form new versions of these manuals, Mom has better. 219 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: They become a fight on too primas well. It was 220 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: definitely a very unsettled time in the culture Vietnam vets. 221 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: When they came home, they were not exactly welcomed with 222 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: open arms. Paladin has always been pretty ZEITGEISTI One fifty 223 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: Questions for a Gorilla by Alberto Bio, who was credited 224 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: with training Fidel Castro's fighters, came out just after the 225 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: Cuban Missile crisis. They were putting out military manuals during 226 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. A lot of the interest in these 227 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: kinds of manuals is attached in various ways to veterans 228 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: who had military experience, who also had read military manuals, 229 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: and who brought them home, and they maintained a continued 230 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: interest in this kind of military identity. Brown identified a 231 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: niche an audience saw them clearly because he was one 232 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: of these guys, and then he made and marketed things 233 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: for them. Here's how Anne Larabee describes the appeal of 234 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: these books. It's a kind of Maverick masculinity. Um. You 235 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: can see it in a lot of the Paladin books. 236 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: For example, there's a certain kind of masculine identity that 237 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: keeps being repeated, and it's this this guy who he's 238 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: not beholden to anyone um, He's not beholden to any 239 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: nation or any state, or any set of ideas. He's 240 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: this maverick who can take care of himself and who 241 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: has the violent means to defend himself. But eventually that 242 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: tight core audience of disaffected Vietnam vets gave away to 243 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: something else, may be less authentic. Again, here's David Dubro. 244 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: Most people they buy this stuff, they read it, and 245 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: they never do anything about it. They never actually do it. 246 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: They just wanted the knowledge. They just wanted to have 247 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: the thing and be cool and to know that, hey man, 248 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: I've got this information now and it's maybe counterculture and 249 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: I can pretend to be a badass. It doesn't mean 250 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: that they weren't band asses. I don't know. But the 251 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: point is, you know, most people, the vast majority of them, 252 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: just didn't practice it. And nine using the name Panther 253 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: became a major liability. Two members of the Black Panthers 254 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: were convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the 255 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: murder of a Nebraska police officer who died opening a 256 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: suitcase filled with homemade explosives. Others had been arrested for 257 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: planning to bomb department stores, including the Macy's in Midtown Manhattan. 258 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: And how were the Panthers learning to make bombs and 259 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: wage guerilla warfare? Well, some of their underground publications were 260 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: directing subscribers to check out a printing house Panther Publications 261 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: Congress noticed in the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, led 262 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: by Arkansas Senator John L. McClellan summoned owner Robert K. 263 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: Brown to testify. Here's Anne Larabee again. It's kind of 264 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: an entertaining mistake that they thought that Robert K. Brown 265 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: was a Black Panther, that he had named Panther Publications 266 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: after the Black Panthers because that's where they were really after. 267 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: We couldn't get the audio of this because it's still 268 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: on reel to real, So I'm going to read the 269 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: senator's questions, and I asked my husband to read Robert K. 270 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: Brown's parts. Senator McClellan began the questioning, do you feel 271 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: that by this kind of activity you're contributing to the 272 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: violence that is occurring in this country and a building 273 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: up of a guerrilla movement in America, no more than 274 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: General Motors in respect, possibly to the Black Panthers driving 275 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: a General Motors car to conduct a bombing. People advertise 276 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: weapons for sale too, but they don't advertise that it 277 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: is to be used for murdering people. McClellan looked closely. 278 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: In one of Brown's book ads. This says grilla warfare. 279 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: It says that is the purpose of it. What other 280 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: purpose do you advertise it for? If you did not 281 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: say guerrilla warfare and the documents you sent out simply 282 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: because we describe guerrilla warfare does not mean that we 283 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: are promoting guerrilla warfare within the United States. Sir, By 284 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: this kind of publication, you are, in a sense advocating 285 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: and encourage guerrilla warfare in the United States. I disagree 286 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: with you. I am not encouraging it. You do so 287 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: by making available the things that are needed to carry 288 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: it out successfully. The book itself does not pick up 289 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: a gun, Senator. We'll be right back. After the Senate inquiry, 290 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: Panther publications became palid and press. Brown didn't want any 291 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: more government types confusing him with the Black Panthers, and 292 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: his old friend Peter Lund joined the company as co owner. 293 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: In an interview on a Colorado public affairs show, Robert K. 294 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: Brown put it this way. I got together with Peter Lund. 295 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: He had money, I had none. We put the company 296 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: together with his input acation that started palid and Press. 297 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: That happened in seventy. Then I sold my interest out 298 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy. By the time and officially joined Paladin 299 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, the FBI had begun investigating how they 300 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: came to publish these official military technical manuals. But they 301 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: quickly realized these manuals were in the public domain again, 302 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: and Larabie the Army tried to pull them back. It 303 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: reclassified some of its manuals, and it also wrote to 304 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: libraries and he asked them to send back their copies 305 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: of things like booby traps and other kinds of manuals. 306 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: They tried to haul them back, but it was too late. 307 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: They were already well seated out there through these paramilitary publishers. 308 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: In addition to asking for these manuals back, officials approached 309 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: libraries and asked to see a log of everyone who 310 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: had checked out one of these books. The librarians were 311 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: up in arms because they really saw it as an 312 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: assault on the right to read. And because these books 313 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: weren't classified, the libraries owned them. They really took offense 314 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: at the Treasury Department coming out and putting them under 315 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: some kind of surveillance. The American Library Association took a 316 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: very significant stand against government interference in people's right to read. 317 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: That was their platform. Here's a moment where Paladin really 318 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: does seem like it's fighting the good fight for the 319 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: First Amendment, which protects a lot of the freedoms that 320 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: have really come to be associated with what America means. 321 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: Freedom of religion, the right to peaceably assemble and protest, 322 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: and most importantly for our story, the right to free 323 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: speech and a free press. It was a platform that 324 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: would also serve Paladin Press for decades. Brown and Lunde 325 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: ran Paladin together for four years until Brown got itchy feet. 326 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: That's how he puts it in his book. He sold 327 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: his stake in Paladin Press to lund for just fifteen 328 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: thousand dollars and returned to mercenary work, this time in Rhodesia. 329 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: Again from his memoir quote, all sorts of adventurers, ne'er 330 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: do wells, and fugitives from all over the world were 331 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: headed for the land of high a guns. Some intend 332 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: on fighting the communist back terrorists, and others just to 333 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: kick some butt. Not long after he founded Soldier of Fortune, 334 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: that magazine would advertise for Paladin. They advertised the hit 335 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: Man Book too, which is actually how detectives believed James 336 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: Perry discovered it. Referred to as the Journal of Professional Adventurers, 337 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: the monthly magazine published stories of mercenaries fighting wars all 338 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: over the world and quickly gained a following. In an 339 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: interview with news Max Brown explains what set the reporting 340 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: in his magazine apart. Some journalists did appreciate what we 341 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: were doing in the quality of journalism we were coming 342 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: up with, but certainly the fact that we were involved 343 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: in training various and sundry groups, the one that comes 344 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: with the mind, of course of the countryes in Central 345 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: America and also in El Salvador. Most journalists took exception 346 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: of fact that we carried guns everywhere. When and if 347 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: we get fired upon, we and uh fuck her back. 348 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: That being said, Uh, we really didn't give a who 349 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: what the other journalist said, and he was say none, 350 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm ever want to challenge us physically in the back 351 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: of the magazine. There were also classified ads for things 352 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: like ninja lessons, gun silencers, and job ads for guns 353 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: for hire. In a man would answer an ad and 354 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: Soldier of Fortune to hire a guy to kill his wife. 355 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: A jury in a wrongful death lawsuit found the magazine negligent, 356 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: although a circuit court of appeals later reversed the verdict. 357 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: That same year, four hitmen, also advertising and Soldier of 358 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: Fortune killed a man named Richard Braun. Again, a jury 359 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: found the magazine negligent and the case was settled out 360 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: of court. And shortly after that and Arkansas man suffered 361 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: injuries when he was attacked by two men, one who 362 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: had advertised in the magazine. When the judge suggested the 363 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: magazine ad was not protected under the First Amendment, Brown 364 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: settled so in Soldier of Fortune stopped publishing ads for 365 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: hired guns, though Brown never claimed personal responsibility for the deaths, 366 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: telling the New York Times, I feel I should be 367 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: no more concerned about that than the auto dealer who 368 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: sells a car that runs somebody down. Peter Lund had 369 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: the same view, and while Brown stopped publishing some controversial content, 370 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: Lund started publishing it under his helm Paladin actually expanded 371 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: way beyond official military manuals and guerrilla warfare books about revenge, mayhem, explosives, survivalism, 372 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: and contract killing. Just to be clear, Palat and Press 373 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: published books and videos on a wide variety of topics. 374 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: One Palatin author described it as ranging from outlandish to legitimate. Training. 375 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: By the early nineties, Paladin went mainstream. By then, the 376 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: book The Ultimate Sniper was considered an authority and was 377 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: required reading for professional snipers and training with law enforcement 378 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: in the military. Bob Dole wrote the foreword to a 379 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: Paladin book about skiing, and the humorous book Get Even 380 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: The Complete Book of Dirty Tricks sat on shelves at 381 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble. The company was offering seven D print 382 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: titles and selling as many as three D fifty thousand 383 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: books a year. Lund was employing more than people, and 384 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: Paladin was a place where you can move up if 385 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: you had the right work ethic and if the boss 386 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: liked you. And David was often one of the first 387 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: to arrive at the office. You know, I would get 388 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: in there and then like Pater's already, He's in that 389 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: upstairs office kitchen, you know, frying up pork chops at 390 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: five five in the morning, and you know, the joke was, 391 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean, like, you haven't lived until, you know, had 392 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: pork chops with pay here at five in the morning. 393 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: He just loved meat man. He ate a lot of meat. 394 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: David was eventually promoted to manager of Paladin's video production department. 395 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: Peter was not a guy who gives ada boys. Peter 396 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: was a kind of boss who said, black man, you're 397 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: doing good. You know you're doing good because I haven't 398 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: shake hand you. He preferred to let people do what 399 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: they were supposed to do, and then he would do 400 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: what he had to do. Lund treated his employees well. 401 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: He paid benefits, He threw big Christmas parties, He allowed 402 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: employees to take hiking breaks midday, and every other year 403 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: he took his workers and their spouses on a retreat 404 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: to Mexico. Turnover was low, though we won't get into 405 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: it here, it's worth noting that in two thousand seven 406 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: Lundon was sued for sexual harassment. It apparently came out 407 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: in testimony that lund regularly walked around the office wearing 408 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: nothing but a towel, He made unwelcome sexual advances to 409 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: female employees, and once while handing out annual bonuses, asked 410 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: the women in the office to give him a kiss 411 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: before handing the checks. Anyway, David eventually became an author himself. 412 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: The first book I ever wrote was a book for 413 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: Paladin Press, and it was called The Ultimate Guide to 414 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: Surviving a Zombie Apocalypse. Zombies were becoming a big thing, 415 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know something that the Paladin audience. 416 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: I bet there are a bunch of people who are 417 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: interested in zombies too, So how do I write a 418 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: Paladin book about this kind of subject? Paladin's website once 419 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: said quote Lunch seeks out authors who are knowledgeable in 420 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: their fields and encourages them to write for his audience. 421 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: By publishing books no other publisher will touch, and encouraging 422 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: authors to tell their own stories, he has earned their 423 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: loyalty and assured their success. Many authors have established themselves 424 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: as experts in certain areas, so even when it came 425 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: to killing zombies, this had to be expert zombie killing. 426 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: What I did was I did research, I talked to people. 427 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: I I got information from the books and videos and 428 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: magazines that I've read, and I colliated it into this 429 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: book about how to Survive a zombie apocalypse. Taking survival 430 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: skills and handgun skills and knife fighting and everything else 431 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: and combining into this thing where okay, this is how 432 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: you get yourself out of this fictitious cham And like 433 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: some other Paladin authors, David took up a pseudonym F 434 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: Kim O'Neill Dave dubro. Video guy doesn't have credibility, whereas 435 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: of a made up, you know, army veteran who's actually 436 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: seen a real zombie. You know, he does have credibility. 437 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, he's right. But there was another reason some 438 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: authors did this. Every once in a while, a few 439 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: people wrote books under pseudonyms just because they didn't want 440 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: to get in trouble. In the Paladin catalog, there are 441 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: lots of macho sounding pen names like Ragnar Benson, George 442 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: Hayduke Rex Ferrell. I mean, like it or not, somebody 443 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: who hasn't thought about this kind of stuff, right, You say, 444 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: hey man, you know, they say, so what do you do? 445 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: And I say, well, you know, I worked for Paladin Press. 446 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: You know we're a publisher. Oh yeah, what do you publish? 447 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: You know, books, videos on Marshall, it self defense, that 448 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Oh yeah, what kind of titles Oh well, 449 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: you know, like put them down, take them out, My 450 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: fighting secrets of fulsome prison. Oh my gosh, what are 451 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: you guys doing. I'm like, that's awful, that sounds terrible, 452 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: that's wrong with you. There are a bunch of people 453 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: were just going to be turned off by that and say, 454 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: you're the writer of a book like that, you know, 455 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't quite grease the social skids the way 456 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: you would think. All of this reminds me of that 457 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: correspondence I found from Rex Ferrell, something we haven't talked 458 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: about since the first episode. Quote, by the way, an 459 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: answer to your question and that of Mr Lund. I 460 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: get my materials from books, television, movies, newspapers, police officers, 461 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: my karate instructor, and a good friend who is an attorney. No, 462 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: I am not a hit man. I don't even own 463 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: a gun. But don't tell anybody. But even though some 464 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: of Paladin's authors weren't experts at all, sometimes the consequences 465 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: of sharing their expertise we're very real. We'll take another 466 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: look at Paladin in part two. Stay with us. These 467 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: are how to guide on how to do nothing more 468 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: than create violence, chaos, anti government, bigoted violence. They teach 469 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: you how to build bombs, they teach you how to 470 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: build guns. They provide you know, motivation and encouragement. That's 471 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: Vincent Suffalu, a retired special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, 472 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: Tobacco and Firearms and the author of a book called 473 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: Rats Snakes about his career as an undercover officer. He 474 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: worked mob cases, drug trafficking, and contract killing. That's why 475 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: we called Vince in the first place. He actually posed 476 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: as a hit man many times, so he has a 477 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: unique view into this world. The people who who I've 478 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: approached in an undercovered capacity have come from every walk 479 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: of life. We asked him, who tries to hire hitman? 480 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: For the most part, I'm usually a little bit baffled 481 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: that the middle income soccer mom, or the local football coach, 482 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: or your regular neighbors um would even consider taking an 483 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: act like that. But yes, it's amazing how many people 484 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: I've talked to about murdering a loved one. It's it's 485 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: a little disturbing, needless to say. So when he says 486 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: he's seen a lot of Paladin books, including Hitman in 487 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: the Wrong Hands, I'm going to believe him. I've come 488 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: across the book in the hands of all types of gangsters, 489 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: subversive groups, why supremacist groups, biker groups, drug dealers, you know, 490 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: anti government, protest type groups. It's not something we would 491 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: necessarily look for, but it's something we would recognize immediately 492 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: upon executing a search warrant or being Say, if I 493 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: walked into an undercover environment working some sort of case 494 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: and somebody had that book and or the Anarchist Cookbook, 495 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm I'm already drawing conclusions about this person that their 496 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: level of seriousness is a little bit higher than maybe 497 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: just bluster or you know, running their pie hole. We've 498 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: been narrowly focused on Hitman throughout this podcast because of 499 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: its linked to the Horn Perry murders, but the influence 500 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: of Paladin books in general is much much wider. Reminds 501 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: me of something I've said before. This isn't just one story, 502 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: it's fifty. Well. I created the fictional company Hawkeye Enterprises 503 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: in a separate town from the university town where I 504 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: was at the time, believing that was the kind of 505 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: name that would seem right up the alley of people 506 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: at Paladin or Soldier of Fortune and others whose mailing 507 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,239 Speaker 1: lists I might get on criminologist Dr Park Deats has 508 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: spent more than a decade studying Paladin, Soldier of Fortune 509 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: and other publishers putting out similar books. It seemed to 510 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: me that it was wise if I was going to 511 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: be digging around in an arguably dangerous network of people, 512 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: to shield my family and friends from what I was 513 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: up to there. And I got on every wacky mailing 514 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: list you can imagine. Some of it was legitimate, but 515 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: some of it was also unlawful solicitations. For example, one 516 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: particular person who was well known in those circles had 517 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: a publication in which he was offering to sell mail 518 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: order cyanide. And this is in the wake of the 519 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: Thailand All tamperings, which in two became the second most 520 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: publicized crime in his tree. The Chicago Thaile and All murders, 521 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: as they became known, were a series of deaths caused 522 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: by product tampering when someone laced taile in all capsules 523 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: with potassium cyanide. Among those killed a twelve year old 524 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: girl and three people from the same family. The crime 525 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: sparked a number of copycat incidents and deeds. Was hired 526 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: by the Food and Drug Administration and the pharmaceutical industry 527 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: to investigate, and I looked for where someone could learn 528 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: to do such a crime and found the only source 529 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: for such information at the time to be Paladin Press 530 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: publications and publications by a handful of other publishers of 531 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: similar materials. He's referring to publishers like Loompanics and Delta Press, 532 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: though Paladin has been described as the principal publisher of 533 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: this kind of content. According to Deeds, the poor Man's 534 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: James Bond, published by Paladin, gives recipes for assium cyanide 535 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: and sodium cyanide. He believed that book and a couple 536 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: other Paladin titles had inspired the title and all killings. 537 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: The culprit was never found. Lund had a memorable response 538 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: to Dietza's findings that in the wrong hands, Paladin books 539 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: could be dangerous. He told author Eric Larson, quote, I 540 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: really can't be bothered by him. If you take two 541 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people, you're gonna find two or three who 542 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: don't wear underwear, four or five who cultivate Bonsai trees, 543 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: six or eight who have shaved their heads. There's no 544 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: statistical validity to the man's conclusions. It's as if you 545 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: went to a party last night and met five people 546 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: who were divorced and decided the divorce rate had gone 547 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: up catastrophically. Here's Lund in a rare appearance he made 548 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: on sixty Minutes with Mike Wallace. Why do you publish 549 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: these things? It's market driven? My absolutely again, terrorism expert 550 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 1: Neil Livingstone, he had this very warped view that he 551 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: wasn't doing anything morally questionable. It was just business and 552 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: it was great that he can have such a business 553 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: in the United States. He wasn't there to decide who 554 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: could and could not buy his books. What you're saying is, 555 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: no matter what pain has caused, I'm a defender of 556 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: the First Amendment and my right to make money from 557 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: these books. I'm saying that ideas and knowledge don't kill people. 558 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: People kill people. We've been talking about how the content 559 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: in these books could have and have had consequences. But 560 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: what if this content wasn't allowed? What about those consequences. 561 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: We're talking about censorship and maybe your but Paladin, it's 562 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: such a fringe example. Well, the Freedom Forums National First 563 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: Amendment ombudsman Paul McMasters once said, that's where you fight 564 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: the First Amendment battles. You fight them on the fringes, 565 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: or you fight them on the frontiers, or the next 566 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: thing you know, you're fighting them on your front porch. 567 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: So for the most part, Paladin Press was safe. But 568 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Livingstone also goes on to say this evidence of intent. 569 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: Later on, if someone carried out a crime. Is it 570 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: true that Timothy McVeigh ordered one of their books? I 571 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: think I read that somewhere. Yeah, he did, but he 572 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: would have found it totally useless. That's Tom Kelly, a 573 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: press lawyer who represented Paladin. Timothy McVeigh, the domestic terrorists 574 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: who murdered one d sixty eight people in Oklahoma City bombing, 575 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: was found to have owned several Paladin books, including one 576 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: called Homemade C four A Recipe for Survival. Now it's 577 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: worth noting that C four was not the explosive that 578 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: McVeigh used. He built a truck bomb using nitrogen fertilizer, 579 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: but the book was used in his trial as evidence 580 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: that he had the knowledge to build explosives. In fact, 581 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: Paladin's own finance director Dana Rodgers, had to read the 582 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,439 Speaker 1: catalog description from the witness stand quote. Serious survivors knew 583 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: the day may come when they need something more powerful 584 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: than commercial dynamite or common improvised explosives for blowing bridges, 585 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: shattering steel, and derailing tanks. They need C four. Oh wait, 586 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: here's another one. Remember the fifty one day standoff between 587 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: federal agents and the members of the Branch Davidians, a 588 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: religious cult back in. This siege ended with a massive 589 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: fire that took over the Waco, Texas compound, killing seventy people. 590 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: This raid was made possible by a search warrant, which 591 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: was secured in part because agents heard the head of 592 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: this cult was trying to get his hands on the 593 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: anarchist cookbook, the most notorious how to book on making 594 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: explosives and weapons, among other things, and it was distributed 595 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: and advertised by Paladin Press. I actually found a list 596 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: of quote crimes involving Paladin Press publications and some court documents. 597 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm just going to read them to you. Here goes 598 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: the murders committed by America's first female serial killer, Sylvia 599 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: Secrist Kip Kinkle of Springfield, Oregon, who killed his parents 600 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: before engaging in a shooting rampage. The murder of talk 601 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: show host Alan Burg by the Order in Colorado attempted 602 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: spousal homicide by William Chancellor in Texas, murder of a 603 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: grocery store manager by Stephen Red in California, spousal homicide 604 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: by Michelle Williams in Ohio. Extortion and loan sharking by 605 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: Lawrence Tubiolo of Arizona, Attempted bombing by Robert A. Strickland 606 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: in Florida, Solicitation of murder by Robert G. Lees of Washington, 607 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: the manufacturer of fifty illegal silencers by Carl Genova of 608 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: New York, Triple homicide by Dana Yule of California, Murder 609 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: and attempted murder by package bomb by Dominic Perry in Australia, 610 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: Triple homicide by Tony Dwong in California, robberies by Terry 611 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: Adams and Matthew Taylor, and Tennessee letter bombs by Raymond 612 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: neil Best in Alberta, Canada, Attempted bombing of police chief 613 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: by Terence Rolls in Alberta, Canada. For murders by Lester 614 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: Leroy Bauer Jr. Of Texas, and triple homicide at the 615 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: Mildred Horn residents in Maryland. Multiple murders, bombings, robberies, extortion 616 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: and Paladin Press was protected under the First Amendment in 617 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: every single one of these cases, that is, until the 618 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: murders of Million Trevor Horn and Janice Saunders. That's the 619 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: case that changed legal history. Peter himself, you know, he uh, 620 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: it was funny. He kind of went through a change 621 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: over time from an adventurer himself. You know, he was 622 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: a former Special Forces, a team leader in Vietnam. He 623 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: was a man who was used to violence and had 624 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: actually seen it, you know. I mean, there's a difference 625 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: between somebody who has to put sights on somebody and 626 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: pull the trigger versus somebody who doesn't. And it's not 627 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, it's just 628 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: a thing. And that's something that Peter had to do. 629 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: And not only that, the cultural shift over time, I 630 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,399 Speaker 1: think he got kind of disillusioned with He was very 631 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: much a man of the seventies and eighties and not 632 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: so much that the two thousand's people moving away from 633 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: can do more towards what can you do for me? 634 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: Um I think helped him shift away from that. I 635 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: first started looking into this story back in two thousand fifteen, 636 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: when Palette and Press was still very much in business. 637 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: That's when I made my first call to their offices 638 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: and Boulder and the very mention of the book. Hitman 639 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: ended that versation quickly. But I'd always imagined someday I'd 640 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: be able to interview Peter Lund for this podcast. I 641 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: was going to keep trying, and then in June two 642 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: thousand seventeen, he died suddenly on vacation in Finland. Apparently 643 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: he was on his way to Russia. He was seventy 644 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: five years old. I was shocked. The official Paladin statement said, 645 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: quote Petar was always a doer, and we at Paladin 646 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: take comfort in the fact that he died doing what 647 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: he loved most. A lot of Lund's life is a mystery, 648 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: and his death is going to remain one. Two. A 649 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: Soldier of Fortune social media post said that he had 650 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: been found unconscious in his hotel room and could not 651 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: be revived. He lost sight in one eye a few 652 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: years back, they said, but otherwise had no serious health issues. 653 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: A post on guns dot Com said he was quote 654 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: killed while on vacation. It's a weird word choice. Killed. 655 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 1: Less than six months later, word went out that Paladin 656 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: Press was shutting down. They put out a another statement 657 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: saying thanks for the trust you placed in us for 658 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: the past forty seven years. It has been quite a ride. 659 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: We reached out to LUN's wife, who also helped him 660 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: run Paladin. She was in charge of the business after 661 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: he died and ultimately made the decision to close the doors. 662 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: She declined an interview. You know, he could have just 663 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: been on a nice, leisurely trip with his wife. But 664 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: the myth of Peter Lund, of the man who kept 665 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: a handgun on his desk, who almost invaded Cuba, who 666 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: fought for the First Amendment for information to stay free 667 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: no matter the cost, The myth of the most dangerous 668 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: publisher in America. It's never gonna die. The editor of 669 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: AMMO Land News wrote, quote, who knows what Peter was 670 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: up to in Finland on his last trip, but I 671 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: am comforted to know he remained dangerous right to the 672 00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 1: sudden end. Next, on hit Man, I represent a woman 673 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: named Bobby who was the survivor of an attempt to 674 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: murder attack by a would be hitman who had bought 675 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: a book about how to do that. The other time 676 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: hit Man was used horrifying scene in Sue in which 677 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: this young would be killer man had a cerreted type 678 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: wire that was used to slip throats, and he went 679 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: after with that in the battle to get it off 680 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: the shelves. Forever. This ship cannot be protected by the 681 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: First Amendment. That was the legal principle that we follow. Literally, 682 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: this ship can't be protected. That's a slippery slogan because 683 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: there will be always someone who is discussing, astounded and 684 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: agreed by the content of someone's speech. Hit Man is 685 00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio and Hit Home Media. 686 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,760 Speaker 1: It's produced and reported by me Jasmine Morris. This episode 687 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: was reported by Michelle Lands. Marc Lotto is our story consultant. 688 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: Executive producers are main gesh Hatiki Door and Me. Mixing 689 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: by Michelle Lands and Jacobo Penzo. Our fact checkers are 690 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: Austin Thompson and not Sumi Ajisaka Special thanks to Lucas Riley. 691 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,720 Speaker 1: Our theme song by Alice McCoy and additional music written 692 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: and produced by the students at DIME powered by the 693 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: Detroit Institute of Music Education.