WEBVTT - Geoffrey Zakarian: An Iron Chef Adds Content Production to His Menu 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.560 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.560 Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.680 guest is Chef Jeffrey Zacharyon. Zacarion landed in the sweet 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.200 spot where culinary and TV fame meat about a decade ago. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.320 When he became a judge, John chopped and he won 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.560 the coveted Iron Chef title. For the past four years, 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.559 Zacarion has steadily been expanding his activity as a content producer. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.640 He founded corner Table Entertainment with partner Jared Keller in 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.360 that put him in a good position to produce content 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:51.400 for Food network parent Discovery and the fledgling Discovery Plus streamer, 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.800 which has a voracious appetite for shows. Zacarion, in our 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.440 interview discusses the differences between launching a restaurant and launching 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.680 a TV In his mind, there's no question about which 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.680 task is harder. He also reveals that the company has 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.720 cameras on the ground working on a documentary with Tribeca 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.840 about the pandemics devastation of New York's restaurant scene or 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.160 capturing it as it actually happens, he says, and that's 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:28.800 all coming up today on Strictly Business. Welcome back to 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:34.960 Strictly Business. Here's Jeffreys, a Carrion chef, entrepreneur and head 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.120 of Corner Table Entertainment, a bustling production company that is 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.120 right there in the nexus of food and content. Jeffrey, 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.480 thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Cynthia. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.720 It's lovely to talk to you. We've talked before and 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.760 it's always it's always a pleasure. I love you had 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.360 your finger, the true finger on the pulse of what's 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:58.560 happening in the world of media, because it's an all 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.200 important world that you know, no one seems to be 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.760 able to live without, especially today. It is it is 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.960 just like the food world. It is an incredibly dynamic 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.040 business where you never know where the next hit, the 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.880 next great idea is coming around the corner. I've always 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.720 been a fan of your appearances on Food Network. I 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.440 always really get the sense that you are speaking as 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.000 a as a both as a as a culinary as 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.079 a decorated chef, but also as a businessman. And it's 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.320 in that context that I wanted that we want to 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:33.440 talk about um your evolution as a TV personality and 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.760 as now for the last couple of years been increasingly 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.560 active as a producer behind the scenes with Corner Table Entertainment, 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.920 and would I would love to start by just asking 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.880 you what you obviously have become one of the most 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.560 recognizable faces on a food network, and I can only 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.840 imagine that that has been good for your business overall. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.880 But what was it that made you in seen? What 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.240 is it that made you decide to plant your flag 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:07.200 and launch Corner Table Entertainment and start your own production entity. 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:12.040 Well that's um. I don't know if it doesn't all, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.560 it doesn't work seamlessly like that. It's sort of like 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.720 comes in bits and pieces. So I can only get 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.880 telling you that as a TV chef, and as someone 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:22.880 has been on a lot of shows Chops since two 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.480 thousand I believe ten or whenever White started, I can't remember. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:31.000 And then we've had so much success with those shows. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.680 What happens is, um Cynthia, as you you start to 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.080 get in everyone else's head and you start giving your 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.400 opinions on what will work and what won't work. Correct, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:43.840 So as you're asked by the producers, what did you 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.520 like about this? What did you like about that? That 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.040 that airs well? This areed well, this didn't do so well. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:49.760 I think we should do more of that. And what 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:55.640 happens is you have this sort of conversation with the 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.400 people around you and the producers and the executive producer 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.640 and EP be how's your talent and you're not back 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.960 on the scene. You're right up there and they want 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.200 to know how it felt and they see the results 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.680 from from the from the ratings right, And what happens 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.760 is you're actually then producing or co producing. You're like, okay, 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:16.600 we're gonna have this idea. What do you think you 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.240 run up by your test that you do it? So 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:22.279 that's it's as simple as that. Honestly, it's just things work. 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.200 You're asking more direction, you're asking more, you know more, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.200 what you think works, Like, tell me why you would 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.400 like to do this? This work better? That was great, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:30.880 it was a great idea. Let's do it again in 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:35.560 different ways. So it really is a creative process based 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:37.920 upon doing a couple of things right and getting good 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.320 feedback right. That's the base of everything. And like you said, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.080 TV is the Food Network and everything else, but especially 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.040 food is all about content. If you don't have content, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.920 a story of beginning to lead a competition, show stand 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:56.359 and stir um uh, some sort of holiday theme. Uh, 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.839 there's all kinds of things. But you know, the Kitchen 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.800 is evergreen and extent that every year and follows the season. Uh. 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.800 And some shows like Chopped or really every green we 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.120 could you know, you can send you know, other than 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.120 throwing a Christmas show on in July, you can show 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.600 show this chop any time of the year. So for us, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.839 it's just a very you know, Jared and I launched 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.800 it in two thousand and SEVENTI is a natural sort 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.080 of ideation about all this creative stuff we've been talking 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.440 about with our executive producers and Food Network, Like we 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.160 talked with David Zaslaw, Kathleen Finch, and Courtney White. They 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.039 run it, and you know, they need all this content 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.160 for Discovery Plus, and they need all this content for 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.880 Food Network. So it's just we've been around so long 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.039 and we've been doing this, we know it works, what 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.239 doesn't work. So they asked us to help with content, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.599 and we decided to just like put it out there. 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.680 And we actually had a great run with the telephones 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.280 that we did in the pandemic. It was just the 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.840 timing and we like, you know, we just did it 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.760 um and we produced it like everyone else did. And 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.400 it was sort of like a nice test, a way 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.840 to test the production keeping abilities and what worked and 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.640 what didn't work. We found out some partners how to 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.240 edit and all that stuff. So ow and behold. We 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.760 raised two an a half million dollars with to one national, 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:12.320 one local, and you know, now we have this production company. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.520 So it's it's not how we sat down and said, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.120 what's the five year goal. It was not that at all. 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.960 It was like, we have these ideas, let's let's start 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.400 like writing them down on paper and pitching them because 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.920 they need content. So it all comes down to that. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.280 But I love that part of it because that's still creating, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.640 you know. So you like the you like the idea stage. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.800 You like being in the at the germ of the 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.520 idea of that what you're going to execute. It's so wonderful. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.640 And everyone anyone else that does this for a living, 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.040 what I do in that same in a different profession, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.040 we'll tell you the same thing. Say creating music, and uh, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.200 it's writing a script, and it's it's so fun to 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.680 sort of collaborate and then see it happen and then 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.679 either fix it or do more of it. So that's 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:59.000 sort of what we're really loving. And what's great about it, Cynthia, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.280 is that I was allows me to continue to cook, 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.200 continue to do the shows, have a behind the scenes 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.800 sort of inventory of stuff that like, oh boy, this 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.640 would work right here, this would be a great way 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:12.800 to like take one of these shows that we haven't 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.880 on Brain and let's do a segment on the kitchen. 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.840 Let's do a seven minute segment. Let's try it and 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.400 see what happens. You know, we don't have to spend 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.280 any money. We're all there. Let's just do it. You 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.200 have their own incubation lab right there. So that's what like, 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.840 we're doing a lot of and you know, we we 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.520 just shot a sizzle. We're doing a restaurant documented with 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.240 Trybic of Productions. Were very excited about that. Um And 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.800 it's all because of just this natural sort of consultation 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.640 with the producers and the people there, because ultimately, your 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.440 boss now is now your collaborator because they need content, 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:49.840 unique content to stay in the year. You love to 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.960 do content. You're a professional. That's been doing Cookie for 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.320 forty years. You've seen just about everything, and you've been 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.520 working on a show that's very current. So how do 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.520 we keep how do we put into a beak or 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.320 shake it and come up with a great new cocktails. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.240 So that's that's really what we do and what we're doing. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.600 So UM, we're very excited about it. Um and you know, 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.520 I were just at the beginning. You know, we haven't 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.239 even started. I mean, Bobby Flay has been uh producing 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.119 his shows sort of I think fifteen years or twelve 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.880 years at least. M What was it? Was it the 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.280 kind of thing did you have to get it? Did 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.480 it sort of start very small? Or did you line up? 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.400 As you said, you did not have a five year plan, 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:31.840 but did you was it the kind of thing you 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.800 had to line up some backing or some financing? Did 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.880 did food? And we just partnered with with bstv Um 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.199 one of our partners in the in the kitchen, and 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.840 they sort of helped us along and we showed us 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:47.800 the rope and we just went, you know, we did 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.440 these ideation meetings and we just came up with some 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.640 great shows and we do sizzle reels and it's a 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.560 very simple process because it was so already are you 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.880 doing it? So basically it was we didn't have to 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.440 really raise all this capital, like let's just start real small. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:07.840 So basically, Jarrett um Tower, myself and my wife Margaret 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.240 and the four of us, we just did it. We 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.600 you know, just huddled, got it together, wrote it up, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.200 met with someone who's who has all the capability of 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:18.960 doing that, just like we did the telephone. You have 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.959 to find someone that is actually in the editing booth 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.839 and has all you know, people on the grounds and 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.680 people doing the documentaries, you know, boots on the ground, 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.520 and so that's how we started. At one point in time, 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.200 we're gonna probably have boots on the ground also probably 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.640 a big fancy office if they ever open. But in 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.559 the meantime, you know, we're just going along with what 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.400 really is important, which is this content, you know, the 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.559 idea and how to get that idea to the film 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.360 because there we all give we all have you know, 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.520 expertisees and the people that in the editing who's not 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.959 necessarily understand what we're talking about and what we're talking 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.720 about we don't necessarily understand when when production telling us 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.320 about like the budget and how we work it over 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.240 four days and how you know breaks and how we 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:05.600 have to do it, and how we have to shoot 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.560 it in the state because of this and not going 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.760 in overtime. So it's all that sort of like nice 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.120 shared value and shared common cause that we don't have 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.000 to be an expert in everything. Well, we're really good 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.800 at content and really good with ideation. So that's that's 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:27.240 why we're very excited about it. Do you, um, how 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:32.520 would you compare the process of you know, assembling that team, 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:37.160 executing on you know, just settling on ideas, you know, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.960 setting the goal, executing to those goals. How would you 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.760 compare launching a show or a telethone like the telethone 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.800 that you've done, to launching a new restaurant or setting 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.120 up setting up a new business that was in the 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.160 you know, in the in the core cooking world. Well 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.960 and in a restaurant, you know, it's it's far more 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.240 difficult to get the ball across the line. For the 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.040 very re and is you have one goal. You you 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.480 come up with a piece of paper, a plan, You've 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.360 sold it to someone that has investment. It's gonna put 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.840 three million dollars stay in a restaurant. That's all you're doing. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.120 It's that one thing, and if it doesn't work, you're screwed. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.160 So if they don't like one show, we have another one, 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.360 and then have another one. You might do three or 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.199 four pilots and none of them, none of them get 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.520 picked up. But it's a very fluid um sort of roll. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.360 So I would say the pain is far greater and 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:36.280 the physical um you know, brick and mortar world of 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.440 opening a restaurant. And I mean that because you're literally 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:40.960 on your feet a hundred hours a week. The first 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.920 three months are like having a wisdom tooth pulled every minutes. Uh. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:52.600 It's just it's it's crazy, nutty and volatile, and you know, 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.480 rife with problems and and legal stuff and lawsuits and 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.280 all this stuff that comes at you. Uh, because people 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.160 are just like, you know, crazy in this world of restaurants. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.320 But that's the way they're so exciting. But what they 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:12.000 do provide is they provide a vivid, sort of peaky 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:18.120 dish of possible content that you can't imagine is gonna 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.040 be there until you actually see it happen. So this, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.960 you've you've created this, this I don't know vacuum where 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.720 stuff happens. Now you're managing it. Now it's a full 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:31.880 time job. Now you're waiting for the critics to come. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.600 And now you hope it works. Now you hope it 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.160 makes money. Now you have to try to pay your 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.319 investors back. So there's so much content that you get 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.160 out of that. Plus you get a marquee that you 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.680 wouldn't necessarily have if you weren't in brick and mortar. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.640 It doesn't mean that you can't be in the restaurant business, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.200 and it can be in a production business and not 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.560 being a restaurant business. But if you're in the restaurant business, 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:57.839 the movement to the restaurant the producing business is a 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:02.280 far more fluid and creative and fun experience because it's 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.440 very little downside other than getting rejected all the time, 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.719 which is normal, you know, right, just like I said, no, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.520 that's a no, that's a yes. And if it hits, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.080 it hits, you know. But you I would imagine that 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.960 that experience of of launching your own businesses in the 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.200 in the circumstances and the fraud nature that you described, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.440 like that that is training for combat. That is training 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.360 for the the insanity and and you know the one 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.720 thing producers have to do most is think on their feet. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.480 It sounds like you've you've been there, uh you know 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.520 back there. You know you've been there with the line cooks, 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:37.920 and you've been there at the front of the house. 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.920 And you know, I had had all those experiences. And 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.160 you know, the funny thing is is with a restaurant, 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.800 you open up with the menu right and you you 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.920 you go through these tortuous processes of getting in a 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.079 chef and a menu and you think it's great to 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:56.840 food and all that, and you know, and then someone 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.880 in the restaurant said, you know what I really want 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:03.280 to gott can I have like a I've just wanted 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.679 to a piece of You know, you have this, man, 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.800 You've done right, it's tested, it's prompted. What it means. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.880 You test everything and you bring it and you make 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.160 five hundred of them. You've got the recipe done that 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.079 you order to that recipe, so you have not no 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.600 ship left over in the box. You know your inventory 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.640 is perfect. You don't have you know, poor crimes when 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.240 you don't in the inventory where you don't need poor 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.440 pranks as it's money, so money, very perishable money. To 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.200 be one of these books, because it's two d fifty dollars. Right, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.000 So it's like, you don't need the books that you're 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.920 not gonna read, so get rid of half of them. Right. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.520 So you know, you do all this work, you get 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.720 the man. You think it's brilliant and unbelievable, right, and 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.840 then someone comes to a very valued customer summon. That 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.800 is someone that you who has a restaurant or someone 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.320 that is in sort of a business that he goes 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.200 out a lot and he orders, like you know, he's 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.920 on a diet or something whatever, and he orders, can 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.600 I just have a grill piece of chicken with some 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.040 some French fries? I want a chicken free? And it's 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.920 not so as a chef, I make it. I'm like, sure, 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.320 I'll do it, no problem. So you make it and 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.000 then that guy sees you eat it, and then guy, 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:13.640 can I have that? Can I have this? And then 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.560 that becomes the best seller. You gotta put it on 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.440 your menu. You had no intention of it, and this 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.320 thing you thought was gonna go gangbusters, cells you know, 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.400 so there's no telling how the restaurant works, and you 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.760 need to react to the customers. So the customers starts. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.560 Using a restaurant is more of a barring grill versus 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.000 fine dining. It's a bar and grill. Now, you're not 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.360 gonna force someone fine dining. You didn't see it. It 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.760 didn't see it coming. The time was such they really 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.720 felt more comfortable as this, and they used it the 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.200 order and started to get different. And so they hit 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.160 these seven, seven out of twenty items with them big sellers. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.520 They had nothing to do with your fancy pants. Right, 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.720 So you do. You've gotta listen to that and get 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.720 off your high horse. It's very that's what you do 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.600 in the restaurant world. Right, So your customer is always right, Well, no, 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.800 they're they're always going to use the restaurant their way 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.560 they want to use it. So you have to be 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.840 available to change that. It's far. There's two different things. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:12.960 That's a great point brought up. The customers ares right. 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.000 The customer when sort of putting forth in opinion or 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.520 putting forth a critique of something. I'm talking about asking 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.360 for something they want to eat. I'm not talking about 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.880 that's that thing, that's that that's the make it and 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.680 give it to them. I'm talking about the critique or 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.680 this or this is not right or right that I 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.800 want to like this, and blah blah blah. The customers 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.600 usually you have to treat them like they're always right, 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:41.040 but they're usually misinformed. Right, I want my soup hot. 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.320 I wanted boiling hot. You can't eat boiling hots. You know, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.760 that's not a critique, that's just just that just doesn't 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.440 make sense because you you pale it your tongue wild 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.320 scorch okay, even at a hundred and twenty degrees which 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.360 is very warm. It's fine stuff like that. You have 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.560 to be really intuitive and that's what you have to 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.080 do in producing. So with trying to figure out what 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.280 the customer is intuitively going to be drawn to. That's relevant, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.520 it's fun, and it's watchable on the first five minutes 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.840 because that's the key. You gotta ground. And then they're 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.040 there at the last five minutes when there's a finale 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:19.000 or the reveal they call it. You know, advertisers look 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.120 at the first ten. In the last ten, they don't 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.320 give a shit about the rest of it. They don't really. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.159 Then you know that once you hear it here, you're 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.240 probably gonna watch the whole thing. That's what's the measure 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.840 of engagement. It's kind of the fascinating part that I've 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.440 learned is that's you really have to have that. So 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.760 you have to have a wow and a reveal, but 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.639 you have to have a wow in the reveal. Be authentic, right, 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.040 So when the customer comes in, if you feel them 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.320 complaining and they're authentic, you take it seriously because you 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.399 know that five or ten or fifteen more people are 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.480 saying the same thing. And you can lose customers out 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.600 of like not listening to that one critique that you 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.760 you've you heard it and it was authentic and you 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.040 check it out and they were right. Most customers don't 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.359 just complain to complain. Most customers have a legitimate misinformation, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.760 a complaint, or something is actually wrong. There's those three things. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.320 So you have to learn about all of those. And 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.320 the best way to get customers that are piste off 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.000 back is a call them up or email them say 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:19.959 come on back, we made a mistake. We're so sorry 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.440 that right away. If you let it sit, they're never 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.920 coming back. Once they come back. Once they come back, 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:34.560 your best customer, now they know the chef that's to 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.119 make you good fun. I'm like, come on, I'll make 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.640 you and they spend money and they're happy like they're 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:43.320 your best customers. So that's is a big difference in 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.600 the two, but not really. I mean, I'm still trying 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.199 to keep that customer happy by balancing the relevance, their experience, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.480 the lighting, the music, and keep them coming back. It's 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.679 all entertainment. It's all It's like Hollywood, You're just you. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.680 It's a it's a movie. There's three breakfast luncheon, did 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.679 a three Curtains shows a day. There's no difference. So 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:09.879 that's why it's such an easy sort of jump. We 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.680 need to take a quick break, but we'll be back 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.480 with Jeffreys A. Carrion discussing the details of the new 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:25.840 documentary he's working on for Tribeca. And we're back with 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.040 Jeffreys A. Carrion. What was it that made TV happen 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.840 for you? Was it something that you aspired to as 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:41.320 you got successful? I guess I was in two thousand seven, Um, 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.280 so that's an eight. I got it. I got it. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.879 I was in a restaurant, you know, I had great 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.600 reviews and I was working in restaurants. Food that was 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.760 was going gangbusters. It was about I mean now it's 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.800 still was thirty years old, so it was about ten. 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:57.840 So it's like it was about eighteen years old, seventeen 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:02.760 years on Flay and you know, um uh Emeral Lagassi 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.119 and you know there's some Tyler of Florence. There was 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.720 some mon key players, and that it really hadn't gotten 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.080 nuts yet, but it was on the on the verge. Sure, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.840 Iron Chef had started. And in two thousand and nine 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:17.440 I I Can approached some and said, we know, we'd 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.160 like a judge on we we're casting for the show 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:29.120 called Chopped. And I'm sort of like on the show, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.479 I'm very serious, but I'm not a serious character at all. 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.320 I'm like, I have fun. Then the kitchen is really 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:34.800 who I am. That the Chopped is like, you know, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:36.800 show them, you know, to serious show and we have 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:41.200 to be serious. Yeah, but they as it chopped and 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:42.800 I'm like, I heard the word. That's sort of like 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.160 it was like a little juvenile. First, I'm like, okay, 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.719 what's the premise. I'm like, well, four people will get 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.400 a basket of foreign reading. I gotta make an appetize 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.680 in twenty minutes if they you know, whoever, losers gets 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:56.920 chopped in there's three and two and one and whoever 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.159 wins get tent oil of dollars the winner, and I'm like, like, okay, 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.240 I thought it was corny and cornball. I really didn't 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.960 like it. And then they said, and the host, and 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:11.399 it's a dog. In the original uh pilot they did 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:17.040 there was a dog really not kidding they fed the 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:21.439 losing dish to the dog. Wow. I wonder why that 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.000 never took off, never made it didn't even get it, 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.840 didn't even get to the sizzle reel. So offut of 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.439 it comes, Jeff. I would imagine the chefs on the 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.040 set were like, what the heck? I think I did 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.480 the pilot with Alexe Born and Shelley Rock and dispirit 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.960