1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Eric. On October three, something important was happening at Uber's 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: headquarters in San Francisco. Yeah, they had sort of a 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: brawler of a board meeting after sort of weeks of 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: negotiations and now what nine months of trouble and trials 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: and tribulations. On the table is a massive ten billion 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: dollar potential investment from soft Bank, the Japanese technology giant 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: run by the very shrewd Masa Yoshi Son. This is 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: the deal that's supposed to sort of heal all wounds, 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: somehow reform governance and just somehow make peace. So this 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: is not just an investment, This is about healing the 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: wounds of the past. Yeah, it's it's the kitchen sink, 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: just sort of of reforms to try and prepare the 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: new CEO, Dara Kazra Shah. He to sort of empower 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: him to actually run the company and not have all 15 00:00:48,680 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: this in fighting constantly. I am Brad Stone and I'm 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: a Mary Newcover. And this week on Decrypted, we're bringing 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: you an update on Uber, which was the ultimate Silicon 18 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: Valley success story just a few months ago. But as 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: you probably know, a series of high profile crises have 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: brought this once mighty company to its knees. Today, Uber 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: is facing five criminal probes from the Justice Department on 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: topics ranging from bribery to price discrimination to theft of 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: intellectual property. There's also facing dozens of civil lawsuits, including 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: one from Alphabet, the parent company of Google, that's set 25 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: to go on trial in December. So we'll ask how 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: things that Uber went so badly wrong, and we'll introduce 27 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: you to two Uber executives who behind the scenes, signed 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: off on and supervised some of the company's most controversial programs. Finally, 29 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: as a new CEO takes the reins, we'll see what 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: lies ahead for the company. Stay with us. So, Eric, 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna work our way up to this portentous board 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: meeting on October three. But you know, first, Uber goes 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: into this moment with a reputation as an absolute corporate pirate, right, 34 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: a lawbreaker. How did it develop that reputation in the beginning? 35 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: Travis Kalenik, who is Uber CEO and is this fighter 36 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: and sort of paranoid competitive guy, like, that's a deserved reputation. 37 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: But in the beginning he was saying, oh, everybody should 38 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: follow the law and not break the rules. Right, he 39 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: was faced in two thousand twelve, after they had operated 40 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: for a few years as a very legal black car company. 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: By some other companies, Lift among them, that introduced the 42 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: idea of ride sharing. Anybody could offer a ride in 43 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: their own car, right, and Uber was opposed to that 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: until they realized that regulators weren't going to do anything, 45 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: and so that they were gonna lose out to this 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: cheaper service and that they needed to take action. Now, 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: around this time, Travis hires his really his corporate attorney, Sally. 48 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: You tell us about her and why she's important. Yeah, 49 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: she's like a litigator, like from law firms. She'd been 50 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: there thirteen years, she'd made partner. She didn't really think 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: she was gonna leave, but then a friend showed her 52 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: this random job at Uber in the very early days, 53 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: and she sat down with Travis and then quickly joined 54 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: the company. And one of her first challenges that the 55 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: company is should Uber a black car service, be more 56 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: like Lift and a company called sidecar in the ride 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: sharing category. Ultimately, obviously they decided to get into that 58 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: with Uber X. What were the implications of that decision? 59 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: So Travis writes this white paper number one, you know 60 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: where they say where there's a legal gray area where 61 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: the law is enforced. We're going to take that as 62 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: a tacit endorsement that it's okay they've deleted that block post. 63 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: I think it's where that's That's all you need to 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: know on it um. But that idea that they would 65 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: do what they wanted as long as somebody was stopping 66 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: them define the company right. It meant that they were 67 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: going to really challenge taxi regulations all around the world. 68 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: And it also meant that they were going to get 69 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: into a very competitive environment with a lot of down 70 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: pricing pressure, which of course would have implications for all 71 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: their drivers, would have implications for how they had to 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: function as a competitor because they're competing basically in a 73 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: modified environment. So we're in the year two thousand thirteen. 74 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: Here uber X rolls out, and this is a period 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: of hyper growth for the company. It's valued at seventeen 76 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: billion dollars. It's expanding in cities every single week. We 77 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: sort of thought this was coming, but now we know 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: it's confirmed seventeen billion dollars, and there was a lot 79 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 1: of competition to leave the rounds other investors in the round. 80 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: Kleiner Perkins, Google Ventures, and low Ventures. Obviously, demand was 81 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: very much there. Travis is a competitive guy, as we 82 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: both know. What are some of the techniques he introduces 83 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: back then to compete against companies like Lift. I mean, 84 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: I think it's so funny that Uber is this quote 85 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: unquote technology company, but it was really sort of fighting 86 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: in the streets. And one of the key elements was 87 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: this thing called slogging. You know, where they would have 88 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: employees and this happened all over the world go and 89 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: ride in a competitor's car and say hey, why don't 90 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: you work for Uber? And you know, that's a very 91 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: manual way to get new business. They would also say 92 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: that their competitors did that to them as well. Yeah, 93 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it was sort of industry practice. But this 94 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: is like the level of street fighting we're talking about. 95 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: It's one to one, like spend employee time going to 96 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: recruit individual drivers to get them on your team. So 97 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: slogging may have been industry practice. But around this time, 98 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: Uber starts to introduce other programs that are somewhat unique 99 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: and perhaps ethically dubious. For the first time, you reported 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: on one of those programs called surf Cam. There's another 101 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: one called Hell doesn't sound so good. They're really good 102 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: at naming. Really what what are? What were these things? 103 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: They let Uber scrape their competitors API, which is a 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: way of saying, okay, as a tech co'many you put 105 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: out this information for people to sort of partner with you. 106 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: Uber would abuse that information and use it to understand, 107 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, where a lift was it any given time, 108 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: more in Southeast Asia, where grabs car was, or how 109 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: how much they were being utilized, like, learn things about 110 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: their competitors and what was the Hell program? Hell is 111 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: the u S version of that. It's sort of a 112 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: tongue in chic name. So Uber internally has Heaven, which 113 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: is their sort of view of everything where all their 114 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: cars are ating and given moment. So Hell is the 115 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: version where they get to figure out where they're competitors 116 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: cars are and you know, take advantage of that information. 117 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: So now going back to sal you the in house lawyer, 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: what is she thinking about all this? So the legal 119 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: team gives sort of initial okays of you know, Hell 120 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: and these other programs. They look at it and say, 121 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: all right, you know, API scraping is okay within these parameters. 122 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: But then the programs sort of go wild. By the 123 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: way back into fourteen, these programs were still very secretive, right, 124 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: nobody really knew about them. But what was starting to 125 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: bubble up where some of these very bad incidents you 126 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: know in ubers, including a sexual assault case in India. 127 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: Think we would both argue that perhaps that was a 128 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: little bit of a turning point for Uber's reputation, right, so, 129 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: that a woman you know, was in an Uber and 130 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: was raped by a driver. The driver was later convicted. 131 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: It was a crazy story in India. The company, though 132 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: internally handled it poorly. So at the time of this incident, 133 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: Uber is consumed with the competitive environment and and somewhat grotesquely, 134 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, management thinks that this could be you know, 135 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: a competitive tactic. This this sex crime by a rival 136 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: in India. UM they they hire a firm to investigate it, 137 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: and the firm obtains the medical records of the victim, 138 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: and then maybe some Uber executives to get those medical records. 139 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: That is, you know, just by any measure, grotesquely wrong. Right. 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: This went to the top levels of the organization. I mean, 141 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: Travis Kalenik was involved in sort of raising questions even 142 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: after the woman s driver was convicted of the rape, 143 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: about whether their competitor, Ola had set them up for this, 144 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: and his top business executive in a close confidence on 145 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: it of his Eric Alexander had the report at one 146 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: point and was going around talking about the woman's very 147 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: private rape report. And so that's continuing to haunt them, 148 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: and there are questions now about how they got in 149 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: the first place and whether they were in violation of 150 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, anti bribery laws. So Eric tell us more 151 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: about Sally. You are are her and Travis kind of 152 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: birds of a feather when it comes to pushing the 153 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: boundaries of the law. She really has this funny moment 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: where Travis tells her he wants her to be innovative. 155 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: It really made her angry. In another interview, Uh sort 156 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: of accounts, you know, playing tennis with her husband and 157 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: getting this feedback that Travis wanted her to be innovative, 158 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: and at the end of the match she's sort of, 159 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: I guess, as exhausted as processed it and decides that 160 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, he's telling her that their their team can 161 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: act differently than everybody else's legal team, that Uber can 162 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: be creative in ways that other people won't, and that 163 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: Basically she needs to sort of figure out how to 164 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: make it possible for Uber to do all this stuff 165 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: even when the law doesn't seem to be in their favor. 166 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: By the way, I mean that in most cases was 167 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: a successful approach. Right. If they hadn't pushed the boundaries, 168 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Uber never would have launched in cities like New York 169 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: or London or San Francisco for that matter. Okay, so 170 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: now I want to introduce another person in a position 171 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: of authority at Uber. His name is Joe Sullivan. Most 172 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: people have never heard of him, but he's a big 173 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: tech figure. He worked at Hey pal eBay, he was 174 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: the head of security for Facebook, and so Uber brings 175 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: him in as his heavy hitter. But then his portfolio 176 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: is like all the sketchy stuff, like all the dark 177 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: arts of Uber is basically Joe Sullivan's organization. Yeah, you 178 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: describe him in a in a recent story as running 179 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: kind of a corporate spy agency inside Uber and all 180 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: these programs that we've just talked about, these ethically dubious 181 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: kind of monitor your rivals programs, Like hell, Joe runs those, right. 182 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,119 Speaker 1: Any program with idious sounding name was part of his organization. 183 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: You know, one part of his fifdom was called competitive Intelligence. 184 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: They called it coin that contained hell and other data 185 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: scraping efforts. He ran SSG, which you know literally sounds 186 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: like the KGB, which strategic services group, which would hire 187 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: people to surveil competitors and their employees. Right, Uber had 188 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: the head of its Chinese business who was the cousin 189 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: to the head of its primary rivals business d D. 190 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: And we reported in a recent story that you know, 191 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: allegedly Joe's group had their own employee monitored because perhaps 192 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: they were questioning her loyalty to the company. Yeah, they 193 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: just want to make sure she didn't interfere with the 194 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: deal and sort of help her cousin out right the 195 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: deal where Uber sold its business to d D in China. 196 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: But here's the key question, you know, which is to 197 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: what extent did Uber's board know about all of these 198 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: slightly nefarious activities. Certainly the board claims and not have 199 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: known knowing Uber and Travis, they must have known that 200 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: they were pushing the boundaries and then chose not to 201 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: get into the specifics. I think that's how it's looking 202 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: right now, and certainly on a lot of fronts, there's 203 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: an effort from the board to say, we had no 204 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: idea what was going on right now. Throughout this period 205 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: of time around two thousand and fifteen, the company is 206 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: growing by leaps and bounds. But we've been told that 207 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: Sally You, the chief lawyer, is starting to get a 208 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: little nervous and she cautions Travis. But you know, Travis headstrong, 209 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: very competitive. He keeps pushing the boundaries of the law. 210 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: Right in an all hands meeting to his employees, like 211 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: lots of people there, he says they don't need to 212 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: follow laws that aren't being enforced. He says, you know, 213 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: we'll have to see what the regulators doing. If they're 214 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: not doing anything to our competitors, we should push the 215 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: boundaries too. And Sally's just like, you can't say that, 216 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: Like she sends an email be like, you know, the 217 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: message of compliance is very important here, and this is 218 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: gonna matter if we face criminal investigations down the line, 219 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: because if something individually does something bad, the whole company 220 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: could be held responsible if we don't have a good 221 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: corporate compliance culture. So, in other words, after a two 222 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: year period of successful what they would call legal innovation, 223 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: Sally You and Travis Klinik are on a collision course. 224 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: By now, it's the summer of two thousand sixteen, and 225 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: Uber is a huge company. It's raised twelve billion dollars. 226 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: It's evaluation is an insane sixty nine billion dollars. And 227 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: amidst all this kind of hype and energy, Uber very 228 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: quietly changes the way it calculates fairs. So Uber announces publicly, Okay, 229 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna do upfront fars. We're gonna be super transparent, 230 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: We're telling people beforehand how much we're charging you. But 231 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: what they didn't really make clear publicly is that that 232 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: also meant that they were going to start paying drivers 233 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: in dependently from what they charged passengers, which made it 234 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: possible for them to find all sorts of crafty ways 235 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: to charge passengers more without paying drivers more. There is 236 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: a federal statute called the Robinson Patment Act, which you know, 237 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: forbids any kind of pricing discrimination. You know, to what 238 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: extent is Uber wandering into this, you know, legally gray 239 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: or even just a illegal territory? And what a sally 240 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: you thinking about this? Well, they're being investigated for their 241 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: pricing policy, so definitely wandered sufficiently for prosecutors to look 242 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: into it. I think there are all sorts of questions. 243 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean, Uber's operating in physical locations, going from neighborhoods, 244 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: you can imagine actual discrimination, not just pricing discrimination being 245 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: an issue. So yeah, it's it's a big set of 246 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: their troubles at this point. And then at the same time, 247 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: as it is experimenting with some of these pricing tools 248 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: with names like Casscade and Firehouse, Uber makes what I 249 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: might argue is its biggest mistake yet, which is over 250 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: the summer of two sixteen, it acquire fires a small 251 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: autonomous car startup in San Francisco called Auto and Otto 252 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: is run by a farmer, a very recently former Weymo 253 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: division of Google executive named Anthony Lewandowski. In when they 254 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: bought Auto, they seemed like geniuses, Like it looked like 255 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: Uber was flying high. The valuation was super high. They 256 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: just expanded their self driving car unit. It seemed like 257 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: they were really on the path to do great things. Well, 258 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: it was a bold move, right because it's not it's 259 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: really not related to Uber's business, you know, And they say, 260 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: we're going to get into deep tech and compete with Google. 261 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: So they buy Auto, which is largely made up of 262 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: former Google employees and run by a former Google employee, 263 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: and that seems great. It's going quiet, quite quiet, and 264 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, alphabet the barren company of Weymo. 265 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: You know that Google. They have so many names over there. 266 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: But you know, basically, Google sues Uber and a mega 267 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: lawsuit and says you stole our trade secrets by buying 268 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: this company, and it turns the attention to the question 269 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: of okay, uh, Anthony Lewandowski, you know, it's still I 270 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: guess allegedly had downloaded all these files from Google before 271 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: he left. And the question that you know, Sally you 272 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: must have been asking herself, is you know, how much 273 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: did Uber know about the way in which Anthony Lewanowski 274 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: had left Google? A lot? A lot. I mean, that's 275 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: what we've been learning now that Uber. It wasn't like 276 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: they bought the company and then they realized, oh crap, 277 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: this guy might have stolen stuff from Google. It was, oh, 278 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: it seems like he's taken He's told us that he's 279 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: taken five hard disks of information. What do we do now? 280 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: And Travis is like, no, we should definitely buy the company. Still, 281 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: let's figure out how to protect ourselves. So to your 282 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: point that Uber knew before they finalized the acquisition of Otto. 283 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: They hired a forensics firm called Straws Friedberg, Right, And 284 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: and Straws goes and tries to assemble a portfolio of 285 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: all the information that Anthony has his team have from 286 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: Google and kind of isolated, get it out of the company, right, 287 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: The ideas of it never gets to Uber. We're fine, 288 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: And I mean it was sort of you can read 289 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: the report now and Lewandowski is literally like emptying the 290 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: trash on his computer like the day of their meeting 291 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: with him. It's just it's clear that the investigators themselves 292 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: are sort of troubled by some of the activity when 293 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: he's really supposed to try and hand everything over to 294 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: them so they can sort of know about it and 295 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: wall it off from Uber so that Uber can't get 296 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: in trouble. And this is all happening very quietly over 297 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: the summer and fall of two thousand and sixteen, so 298 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: quietly that board member Bill Gurley from from Benchmark, one 299 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: of Uber's investors, claims he doesn't even know about that. Right. 300 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: He testified under oath that the board was never told 301 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: about Uber's findings. Meanwhile, they'd approved all these contractual things 302 00:16:49,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: like indemnifying Anthony Lewandowski for past bad acts. So hopefully 303 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: we've laid the groundwork here for what then happens. In 304 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 1: early two thousand and seventeen. You know, Donald Trump has 305 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: been elected. It's sort of different political environment that sends 306 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: on Silicon Valley, and it's in that environment that we 307 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: start to see the delete Uber hashtag. Susan Fowler, a 308 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: former Uber employee, writes a very critical blog post of 309 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: of what she called the misogynistic and harassing culture for women, 310 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: and one by one, a rough week for Uber appears 311 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: to be getting rougher. The New York Times is reporting 312 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: Uber you use software to elude authorities in cities where 313 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 1: the ride hailing service is not yet approved by using 314 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: the program known as gray Ball. And amid all these crises, 315 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: all these controversies, a video emerges, a very unflattering video 316 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: of Travis Klink. It's so funny because it's so mundane 317 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: in some ways. I mean, Travis is just bopping around 318 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: in the back of the car with these two women 319 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: and having sort of mild conversation, and then the women 320 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: get out of the car and the driver sort of 321 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: starts interacting Travis, and Travis opened the conversation and by 322 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: the end of it they're having this fight where Travis 323 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: is swearing and it's just very unco like and also 324 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: it just sort of shows is sort of lack of 325 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: compassion for one of his drivers. But people are not 326 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: trust in you anymore. Do you think people would blank 327 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: cards anymore? I lost plenty seven thou dollars because of you. 328 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: I bankrupt because of you. Look, he does, he does, 329 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: he does? You keep changing every day? What you keeping? 330 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: What have I changed about black? What have you changed 331 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: the whole business? What you dropped the prices on black? Yes? 332 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: You did? Did with twenty dollars. He started with twenty dollars. 333 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: You know how much is the mile now to you 334 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: know what? What? Some people don't like to take responsibility, 335 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: to take something playing everything car good luck. And then 336 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: what happens is earlier in the summer, you know, all 337 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: the scruise and t Havis's position becomes basically untenable. The board, 338 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: led by you know, the investors at a benchmark who 339 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: have claimed to be surprised by all the things that 340 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: we've talked about. Uh, you know, they confront him in 341 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: a hotel in Chicago and they tell him that his 342 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: his tenure as CEO is over. So Eric back to 343 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: the board beating on a Cobra third. In light of 344 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: all of these scandals, it's it's not that surprising that 345 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: the board wants to further limit Travis Kalinic's power. Right, 346 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: he's no longer CEO, but he's on the board. He 347 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: controls two other seats. Maybe one day he'll come back. 348 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: But this is Silicon Valley, right, We revere the founder, 349 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: We revere the founding CEO, which Travis basically is well. 350 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: Part of the fight here is just how bad was 351 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: it uber. I think they're different camps. There's sort of, 352 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, the benchmark camp, which is it was terrible, 353 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: like we are being sued by Alphabet like everything is. 354 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: And then there are board members who want to sort 355 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: of saying, you know, it's sort of bad. We got 356 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: rid of him, but he can stick around. I think 357 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: another key point is that when Travis resigned, he agreed 358 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: to hand over a lot of his power over these 359 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: board seats, and then he renegged on the deal like 360 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: in the other aspect. And this is a little technical, 361 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: but it's it's true. At a lot of Silicon Valley companies. 362 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: There are different classes of stock, right, and Travis owns 363 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: shares of stock that come with super voting powers, and 364 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: the board at this momentous meeting is trying to get 365 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: rid of those and limitous power in that way too. 366 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: And ahead of the board meeting, fearing that the board 367 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: was gonna take away a lot of his power, it 368 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: Travis filled his two board seats suddenly, uh John Thane 369 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: and Ursula Burns to you know, very senior former executives 370 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: one Merrill Lynch, one Xerox. But he fills them, sort 371 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: of proving the impulsiveness and sort of power of this 372 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: ousted founder that wasn't going to go quietly. And and 373 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: this is a very fractis board, right. You have Travis 374 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: and some of his supporters. I think Ariana is still 375 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: somewhat in as camp You have you know, the first 376 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: seat EO. Ryan Graves and the one of the co founders, 377 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: Garrett camp Um. But you've got Benchmark, you know, You've 378 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: got David Trujillo at TPG. I mean, yeah, there are 379 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: a lot of characters, and it was an eleven person 380 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: board before this meeting started, and Darak shah He the 381 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: new CEO who's right in the middle and really trying to, 382 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, get rid of all this divisiveness and just 383 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: safeguard the future for the company. Dark as are Shah 384 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: He the new CEO who would come over from Expedia, 385 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: the dark horse candidate who is now controlling everything. He's 386 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: doing a pretty good job of playing the convener, like 387 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: getting everybody on the same page. Even as he's one 388 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: of the authors of these reforms. They're gonna live a 389 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: limit Travis's power. His appointment surprised almost everyone. Right the 390 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: names we were hearing were Meg Whitman from HP or 391 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: Jeff Emil formerly from g e U Dara. You know, 392 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: as a as a professional CEO, he ran Expedia for 393 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: many years. He feels like an adult frankly in this 394 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: scenario for sure. Yeah, And I think he wants to 395 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: make sure that it while he's new and he has 396 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: all his support and good press and everything, that he 397 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: can sort of get the company's governance under control. So 398 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: that meant, you know, moving the company to one share, 399 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: one vote, having a lot of new independence board members, 400 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: so that the power of Travis spord members and the 401 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,479 Speaker 1: current board that's dysfunctional would be deluded. And meanwhile, they 402 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: needed to figure out how to integrate soft bank into 403 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: the company if they're going to make this deal. And 404 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: before we get to the finalization on the soft bank decision, 405 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: as if this situation needed to be any more complicated. 406 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: In September, the city of London, one of Uber's biggest markets, 407 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: basically refuses to renew Uber's license to operate there. This 408 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: is Dara's basically first big test as the CEO of 409 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: of Uber, and Dara went to London. He met with 410 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: the head of TfL Transport for London, and he talked 411 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: to the mayor and afterwards they were saying nice things 412 00:22:53,359 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: about Uber. Was sort of remarkable. So let's finally get 413 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: back to a soft bank. The sort of underlying question 414 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: of this episode. They're offering a ten billion dollars a 415 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: little bit to Uber, but also many to the early 416 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: investors and employees to give them some liquidity. It's a 417 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: huge sum of money. Uber doesn't really need the money, right, 418 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: so this isn't really about Uber getting new money. Uber 419 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: is getting a billion dollars new which for the company 420 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: was like, whatever, we've raised more than fifteen billion, what's 421 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: really interesting, here is the other nine billion, which is 422 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: buying out the existing shareholders. Fine, it's like a mini 423 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: I p oh. It's going to be the largest if 424 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: this thing finishes, the largest private stock sale ever. So 425 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: it is gonna be a huge cash change of hands. 426 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: And it's all happening sort of in this negotiated private way, 427 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: not in an I P O. Right, and it has 428 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: so many implications for governance of the company, Travis's role, 429 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the future of Uber. What does the board decide? So 430 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: the board up until like this Tuesday meeting, they're like 431 00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: negotiating their writing things throughout the night, tweaking provisions, and 432 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: so finally, I mean they all unanimously agree because they 433 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: can see the right on the wall. I mean, I 434 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: think Dara Benchmark, the people who wanted to sort of 435 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: rain in Travis got what they wanted here. They moved 436 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: to one share, one vote, But Travis got enough concessions 437 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: from the original proposal that he looked pretty good too. 438 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: We got to keep his two board members, and they 439 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: agreed to move the board to seventeen people. You know, 440 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: I I don't know how many of Uber's problems this solves, right, 441 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: There's still been a lot of turnover of topics X. 442 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: I would have to imagine moral is pretty low, and 443 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: a lot of Uber's, you know, biggest competitors like Lift, 444 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: like Ola on India, Grab in Southeast Asia have used 445 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: this period of incredible turmoil to raise money themselves and 446 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: to improve their their positions on the market. Yeah. I 447 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: think this is sort of the baseline thing that Dara 448 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: needed to do. This needs to get done just so 449 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: he doesn't have Travis trying to come back, so the 450 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: boards more functional, their independence, so that people can get 451 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: liquidity and sell some of their shares. But there's, like 452 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: you said, there's so much more that they need to do. 453 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: They're gonna have. They have to fight five criminal probes 454 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: like at least yes yeah so, and the Waymo lawsuit 455 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: and many many other private lawsuits. And it was just 456 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: reported that Google wanted a billion dollars to settle that. 457 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: So it's it doesn't stop. There's a lot of problems 458 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: for him to solve. And to that point, are legal 459 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: guardians at Uber, Sally you and Joe Sullivan. What has 460 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: become of them? So Joe is still there the board 461 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: in the investigation into his team is ongoing. Sally is 462 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: on the way out. I mean she's she's stepping away. 463 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: Dara is looking for a general counsel right now to 464 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: be interesting to see, and she's helping with the process, yes, 465 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: but I think she's been alienated from the company a 466 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: little bit here. And I mean they know they need 467 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: a new lawyer, but I think it's it's gonna be 468 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: a hard job, so it'll be interesting to see if 469 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: they can get someone. And Travis Kalanek, he's not CEO, 470 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: but I get the impression, and I don't know about you, 471 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: that Uber is still his life and he's still behind 472 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: the scenes working pretty much NonStop on on the least 473 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: board issues. Yeah, he's super involved. It'll be interesting to 474 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: see if you can starting a company or find some 475 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: philanthropy to sort of give the company some space. And 476 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: that's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening. We 477 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: want to hear what you think of the show. You 478 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: can email us at Decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or 479 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: on Twitter, I'm at Eric Newcomer. If you work for Uber, 480 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: you know, send me a d M that's shameless. And 481 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter I'm at brad Stone. If you haven't already, 482 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: please take a moment to rate and review our show. 483 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: It's the best way to help us get the show 484 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: in front of new listeners. This episode was produced by Piaga, Cary, 485 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: Liz Smith, Magnus Hendrickson. We'll see you next week.