1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: What's up, his way up with Angela Yee and Happy 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Wealth Wednesday. 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 2: Of course, Dacy Tisdale is here. 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 3: Happy Wealth Wednesday's everybody. We are going to educate you 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 3: today in capitalism and all things capitalism and a form 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: of capitalism that you've probably never thought about, Black capitalism, 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 3: because we have the one and only doctor Rachel Lorea, 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 3: whose book Black Capitalist just came out a couple of 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: weeks ago. Its full title is Black Capitalist, a Blueprint 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 3: for what is Possible. Doctor Rachel is no slacker. She's 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 3: currently in asset wealth management a JP Morgan Chase. She's 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 3: the founder of kelliwell A, which is a lifestyle brand. 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: But your plantains and your cookies and your brownies or 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 3: what it's all about, and you have a plantain obsession, 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: which we'll talk about. You're also an anthropologist, sheh, and 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 3: your PhD is in African American Studies and socioculture anthropology. 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 3: You've been featured in the Top Times, Forbes, everything everywhere, 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 3: and we're just so excited to have you and really 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 3: proud that you wrote this book. It is fantastic. 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so much for having me. 21 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: Well, we have questions, okay, but let's start with the basics. 22 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: So what is the difference between black capitalism and regular capitalism. 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'll start with capitalism. It's really an economic 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 4: system focused on private actors pursuing private ownership with the 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 4: intention to yield excess capital. So it's really about profitability 26 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,639 Speaker 4: and about ownership. Black capitalism, in contrast, is really about 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 4: how private actors collectives can really reposition themselves within the 28 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 4: economic system of today with the intention to yield excess capital, 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 4: but then most importantly, really create social good as well, 30 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 4: and so that becomes the core difference. It's about how 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 4: can you also create avenues for ownership and thriving with 32 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 4: that context of social good which you don't have in 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 4: a framework of capitalism. 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: Right, capitalism. 35 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: I think it's a bad repped because people act like 36 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: capitalist societies are really bad, Like when you hear about like, 37 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's capitalists, Oh capitalism is you know, awful, 38 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: But then we talk about black capitalism and any for it. 39 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: There was one part in the book where you talk 40 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: about being in church and why money is important when 41 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: it comes not to just being able to have things, 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: but also dignity. 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And I think that it's really the tools 44 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 4: of capitalism can be neutral. It's just we're living in 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 4: the history and the present of the racialization of these tools, 46 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 4: which is why I think them people can have these 47 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 4: really visceral and negative relationships too and reactions to capitalism. 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 4: But if we really think about how we can use 49 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 4: the tools of capitalism in new ways and restorative ways 50 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 4: that create opportunities for social good that we can tap 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 4: into that in a kind of new form that I 52 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 4: think ruptures preconceived notions about capitalism. 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 3: Let's give examples of that an action, because I know 54 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: when I worked on Wall Street, a company just like 55 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: take a hippocratic oath. Companies take an oath to make 56 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 3: their shareholders as much money as possible, and a lot 57 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: of people are like, well, what is this company being 58 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 3: so bad their responsibilities to their shareholders. They never said 59 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 3: it was anything different black capitalism. You're saying that necessary 60 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 3: thing is paying it forward and community, and in your 61 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: book you give some incredible examples of people doing that. 62 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: Is Suzu comes to mind. Yeah, talk about it in action. 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you mentioned Asusu So one of the co 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 4: founders of that company, which is a unicorn business. 65 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: By the way, they launch that tell people what a unicorn. 66 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 4: Yes, it's a billion dollar valuation for a business, which 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 4: is huge, and so Amimu Abbi one of the co founders. 68 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 4: He launched that back in twenty eighteen with his co 69 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 4: founder and the work that they do is really about 70 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 4: creating financial visibility for the country's most financially invisible people 71 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 4: through credit reporting and the belief is that if people 72 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 4: can pay their rent on time, then you should also 73 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 4: have access to credit worthiness. And so that's a B 74 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 4: to B business, but ultimately has value at the bottom 75 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 4: line to the consumer where they now get access to 76 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 4: credit and access to mortgages, to different loans, personal loans, etc. 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 4: And they've really unlocked millions of dollars of capital and 78 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: credit and leverage and a financial sense to people that 79 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 4: otherwise would have never had it. And so that's really 80 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 4: focused on a business where they're not thinking about exploitation, 81 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 4: they're not thinking about extraction. It's how can we create 82 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 4: social good opportunity for people in a way that's clearly 83 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 4: profitable than being a unicorn business. And so that's just 84 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 4: one example, and I think it's not just from an 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: entrepreneurial lens whereby you can practice black capitalism. I work 86 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 4: at JP Morgan Chase, and I spend a lot of 87 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 4: time thinking in my seat within wealth management, what are 88 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 4: the things that I can do to bring the resources 89 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 4: within wealth management into the communities that I'm a part 90 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 4: of outside of it, and whether it be people are 91 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:59,239 Speaker 4: thinking about recruitment retention of diverse professionals, They're thinking about 92 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: how they can bring in black owned businesses into the 93 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 4: organization to get different scopes of work, different opportunities. There's 94 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 4: so many different outlets that think about how can you 95 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 4: just share capital resources in different ways? Regardless of the 96 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 4: seat that you're in. 97 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 3: I'm listening to you, and you're so soft. I mean 98 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 3: you're a Tiger. You're just so soft. And I know 99 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 3: you were born in Ghana. 100 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 4: Well I was born here. 101 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: Actually you're born here. Your strong heritage connection to your 102 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: family in Ghana, and that's a culture where people are 103 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: conditioned to be soft spoken. That does not cut it 104 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 3: on Wall Street. And you actually started at Goldman Sachs 105 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: not knowing anything about finance. How did that happen and 106 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: how did you distinguish yourself as a black woman in 107 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 3: that situation? 108 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, as you mentioned, I had no context for 109 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 4: high finance whatsoever. But I happen to get recruited while 110 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 4: I was an undergrad at NYU, and I didn't think 111 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 4: anything of it. I was going to dismiss it. But 112 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 4: it was my older brother who really kind of encouraged 113 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 4: me to rethink that. He was like, this could change 114 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 4: the trajectory of your career if you take on this 115 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 4: internship at Goldman and. 116 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: So student loan, debt, everything that you were at. 117 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so even to intern at Goldman, that's what 118 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 4: made the difference between me graduating debt free and graduating 119 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 4: with considerable debt. And so just having access to that 120 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 4: opportunity was huge. But those kind of early days was 121 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 4: a massive culture shock on top of the fact that 122 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 4: I was one of the few black women in that 123 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: space and you're kind of vying for that full time offer. 124 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 4: You know, you watch those like Succession or Billions or 125 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 4: Industry and you think that's fiction, but so much of 126 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 4: that is true in terms of what you go through, 127 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 4: the toxicity sometimes in those spaces to get the offer, 128 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 4: get the job, and have. 129 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 3: That tent hitting black people well, really pits black people 130 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: against each other. 131 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's like you have that cultural context, but 132 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 4: then on top of it, as you mentioned, I have 133 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 4: my own kind of ethnic cultural context of you know, humility, 134 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: kind of subservience. Those are all kind of parts of 135 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 4: the culture. And so when you're in a place like 136 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 4: Goldman Sachs, you need to be as visible as possible. 137 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 4: People need to hear you and see you in order 138 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 4: for them to remember you. And so I'm then wrestling 139 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 4: with man, how do I do that when it feels 140 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: so counter to how I've grown up and how I 141 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 4: just kind of carry myself. And so those became the 142 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 4: sets of challenges that I had while also seeing for 143 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: the first time what black sociality and high finance can 144 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 4: look like, how you can use the tools of capitalism 145 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 4: and new ways that are productive for yourselves for your communities. 146 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,239 Speaker 4: Because you know, when I was graduating NYU and going 147 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 4: on to Goldman, so many of my classmates that were 148 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: going on to more quote unquote altruistic careers, like how 149 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 4: are you going to go to the belly of the 150 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 4: Beast Wall Street? But then for me to see people 151 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,119 Speaker 4: engage in capitalism in these like really complicated, nuanced ways 152 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 4: gave me a lot of hope about the possibility about 153 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 4: how we can really engage in the system in new 154 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 4: ways that are going to really be restorative for us 155 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 4: and like get us closer to that point of liberation 156 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 4: and economic freedom. 157 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is for you also being a 158 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: business owner, and we were talking about this earlier, you 159 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: ended up you had a brick and mortar location, and 160 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: when you knew it was time to close that down, 161 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: you took a different type of approach that I've never 162 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: heard of before. 163 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so can you break that down? 164 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? 165 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 4: Of course. So, especially in a capitalist framework, right, an 166 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 4: entrepreneur would say, all right, closing up shop, today's your 167 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: last day. That's it. You figure it out, And there 168 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 4: was no way that I could do that, you know, 169 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 4: And I think for me having a kind of black 170 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 4: capitalist framework and orientation, it was how can I make 171 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 4: sure that all of my team members feel set up 172 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 4: for whatever their next thing is going to be. So 173 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 4: for me that meant really spending time with them leading 174 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 4: up to our clothes to say, hey, what are you 175 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 4: really interested in? What are the things that really get 176 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 4: you excited passionate? What are you looking to get into? 177 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: And then for me it was how can I tap 178 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 4: into my personal social network? What kind of research or 179 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 4: different resources that I have access to that I can 180 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 4: give and kind of share to make sure that they're 181 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 4: set up for success and spending time with each of them, 182 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 4: you know. So by the end and that closing day, 183 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 4: they all had their next thing lined up. They all 184 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 4: felt really kind of secure and what they were going 185 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 4: to do next. And that was just part of what 186 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: I just had to do, as you know, their leader 187 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 4: in that context where I needed to feel responsible for them, 188 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 4: and they also know that I value them as people. 189 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: You know, someone called me the other day that they 190 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: worked on something in my house and they have you know, 191 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: it was a business that was kind of newly launched 192 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: when I use them, and she was like, man, it's 193 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: been tough over here. They just closed with no like 194 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: any type of heads up notice, and now we're all 195 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: out of a dab and people have these orders for 196 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: their homes that they're not going to get and I 197 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: don't even know how to explain it. And it made 198 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: her look bad because you know, you work at this place, 199 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: she's your connection to it. And then the place just 200 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: shuts down. Everybody that worked there is like, oh my gosh, 201 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: what am I going to do next? And then there's 202 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: still clients that aren't going to get what it is 203 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: that they were supposed to get, and who's going to 204 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: explain all of that, you know. So that's why I 205 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: think that I've never heard of anybody doing that before. 206 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: Wow. 207 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just incumbentable on me to like really 208 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 4: make sure that my team was set even though I 209 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 4: was having this transition in the business. And I think 210 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 4: that's also part of the responsibility when you're really invested 211 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 4: in both profitability and social good, it's like, how can 212 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 4: you secure the bag, secure the people in that process? 213 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: How do you feel about these black owned businesses that 214 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: the community gets very upset when they're like, hey, they're 215 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: selling or they're selling a portion of it, you know, 216 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: to a bigger conglomerate and now, you know, people get 217 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: very upset when that happens. And it's been an ongoing thing. 218 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: We've seen it happen time after time. But people tell you, 219 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: when you own a business, you should be building it 220 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: and scaling it so that at some point you are 221 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: able to sell it. But in our community, we don't 222 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: like to see that happen. When we've been in supporting 223 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: a brand from the beginning that's black owned women own 224 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. 225 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think when it comes to that, 226 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 4: every entrepreneur has to do kind of what works for 227 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: them if it's a lifestyle brand or if you go 228 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 4: into it with a kind of venture capital kind of trajectory. 229 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 4: But especially when the critiques are, oh, you know you're 230 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 4: selling it or you know you're kind of closing up shop, 231 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 4: then the question becomes, well, have we done our work 232 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: also as a community to sustain that business in a 233 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 4: way where selling it doesn't have to even be an 234 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: option if that's something that's a concern, And so then 235 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 4: the question and I think also the responsibility is on 236 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 4: us sometimes about when we talk about supporting black owned businesses, 237 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 4: are we really about that through and through and it's sustainable, 238 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 4: it's not just kind of a one time thing. And 239 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,239 Speaker 4: so I think when you also just have this unfortunate 240 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 4: trend of black owned businesses closing because they can't sustain, 241 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 4: the questions really on us around like what are we 242 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 4: doing to really create avenues for sustained ownership within our 243 00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 4: community as well? 244 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 3: You talk about that a lot that there's you know, 245 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 3: questions that we need to ask ourselves when it comes 246 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 3: to supporting black capitalism and being in a capitalist society. 247 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 3: But it's so strange to be black in America and 248 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: live within a system that was designed against you that 249 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 3: you actually built. Yeah, and you talk a lot about 250 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 3: just kind of reframing that in your mind, like how 251 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 3: you look at your job, and you give an example 252 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: of a gentleman who used his job in finance just 253 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: to learn skills to give to the back to the community. 254 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so that's actually the story you're talking about. 255 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 4: Is a man named Alex who works at Goldvin Sachs, 256 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 4: and he kind of describes himself as a spy. And 257 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 4: his thinking is, I go into these institutional spaces knowing 258 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 4: that I'm in them, but I'm not of them. It's 259 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: an understanding that these spaces, these institutions, weren't created for 260 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 4: me to thrive, but yet I persisted and found myself 261 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 4: in these spaces. So now, how can I leverage these 262 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 4: institutional resources again, not just for myself, but also for 263 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 4: my community who doesn't have the opportunity to be in 264 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 4: this space like I do. And so I think that 265 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 4: when there's that tension of wrestling around, it's hard to 266 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 4: think about yourself being on the right side of something 267 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 4: when you've been on the losing side for so long. 268 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 4: I think that's so much the narrative of black people, 269 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 4: the black community, and the context of capitalism. But we 270 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 4: also have black, more Black millionaires than we've ever had 271 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 4: in this country to date, So how do we reconcile attentions? 272 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 4: And I think as financial literacy gets more and more 273 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 4: democratized we get access to knowledge, which knowledge is economic power, 274 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 4: not just power, then the questions become how do we 275 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 4: sit with all of this intention but of course anchored 276 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 4: on how do we make sure that our pursuit of 277 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 4: economic thriving within the system that we're in is not 278 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 4: dependent upon the exploitation of someone else? And that's the 279 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 4: really important part. 280 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: You write about that in your book when you talk 281 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 3: about soft life and luxury and how that's a movement 282 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 3: from the exhaustion people stepping back and how do you 283 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 3: be part of that and black luxury without yeah, and 284 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: still be a good Black capitalist. 285 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 4: Right, And that's part of the kind of self reckoning 286 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 4: that has to happen, because these different trends that we see, 287 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 4: they're all expressions of a capitalist orientation to tap into 288 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 4: the soft life, which, again at its intention is really 289 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 4: about rest as resistance to hustle culture and to the 290 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 4: demands that capitalism places on us, disproportionately for black and 291 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 4: brown people. But to really live the soft life, it 292 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 4: requires excess capital, It requires resources in order to do that. 293 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 4: So then the question becomes, how do I engage in 294 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 4: capitalism in such a way that allows me to into 295 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 4: that well again, not be exploitative. So perhaps some of 296 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 4: those solutions are around, Okay, I want to support brands 297 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 4: that are focused on no exploitation, fair trade, etc. And 298 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 4: so those becomes the sets of questions and also the 299 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 4: responsibility that's on us and the honesty that's required to 300 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 4: even recognize that, Okay, soft life, black woman luxury. That's 301 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 4: all well and good that we want that and we 302 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 4: want access to comfort, but it's also a reality check 303 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 4: in terms of we're engaging in capitalism. It's not this 304 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: kind of passive experience that we're having. 305 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: You know, with everything that's been going on right now, 306 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: people can feel really defeated just financially and trying to 307 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, how can I get to this soft life, 308 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: this luxury life when there's a lot of obstacles that 309 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: people are facing right now, So what do you say 310 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: to that? To somebody who's listening right now, that's like, okay, great, 311 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: I would love to be a black capitalist, have to 312 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: be able to, you know, live this life but also 313 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: do social good and have that responsibility. But they don't 314 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: know how. 315 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think part of the trap of 316 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 4: capitalism is it nurtures individualism. It nurtures this idea that 317 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 4: we're in it alone. It's a dogg eat dog kind 318 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 4: of society, and so when we think about our financial 319 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 4: futures and the dreams we have for ourselves, it can 320 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 4: be very disparaging because then the question is like, well, 321 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: how do I even achieve this? As if it's only 322 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 4: something for you to achieve on your own. But that's 323 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 4: where we have to kind of rupture our thinking because 324 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 4: it's really in community that we're able to create economic 325 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 4: security for ourselves and within a community context as well, 326 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 4: and there are practical ways in which you do that. 327 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 4: So what we mentioned Mimimu Abby, co founder of e Susu, 328 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 4: but sou sue, yes, you know, those are kind of 329 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 4: traditional old school money pulling money lending break down is 330 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 4: Yes Susu is when a group of people come together 331 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 4: and they put in money into a pot and at 332 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 4: a regular cadence, if it's a your week, you'll get 333 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 4: all of the money that we've pulled together. The next 334 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 4: week or the next cadence, I would get those funds, 335 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 4: and so those are not just the funds that I 336 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 4: put in, but everybody in the pots who's contributed to it, 337 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 4: I would get those resources. And so then that becomes 338 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 4: money and resources that I can use to whatever kind 339 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 4: of pursuit or goals that I have. And that's something 340 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 4: we've been doing for years and years and a very 341 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 4: practical thing that we can do now. But again, it 342 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 4: requires community in. 343 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 2: Order to Yes, it does. I remember during a pandemic. 344 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, people were like doing suit because at that time 345 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: it was a different type of situation happening during a pandemic. Okay, 346 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 1: that was more like a payraid skame. Oh okay, And 347 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: that's the thing. 348 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 4: You gotta be careful. 349 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. 350 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: I want to say that, yes you do, because that 351 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: at that time it was not I think with the 352 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: best of intentions. 353 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: I see you know what I mean. 354 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: And I do think that we're in a unique space 355 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: of we don't get the access to loans and funds 356 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: and the way other groups of people do. So we 357 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: have been practicing that community coming together to make sure 358 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,959 Speaker 1: that we're able to open brick and mortar locations or 359 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: even just to have a business that can survive and thrive, 360 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: because that's what you know, we're relying upon too. And 361 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: I guess not by twice at first. 362 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 363 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll also say though, I think for me, I 364 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: really also chopped into institutional resources that it was affiliated 365 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 4: with in order to even build killowally. And so, for example, 366 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 4: I was at Yale studying for my graduate studies while 367 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 4: I also started the business, and Yale has tremendous resources, 368 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 4: and so they were writing me checks, they were getting 369 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 4: me in front of mentors, different advisors who could help me, 370 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 4: and that was huge for me to even be able 371 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 4: to build my brick and mortar and then even have 372 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 4: a location at the Barclay Center at that time. Even 373 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 4: with Goldman, I was able to be part of their 374 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 4: ten thousand small businesses. 375 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 2: They do great work, and so does JP Morgan. 376 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: I want to say that too, but sometimes that requires 377 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: work on our part, and I want to say that, 378 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: like you said, it's not an individual thing, and sometimes 379 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: you feel like you just have to, like, you know, 380 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: just work on the business. 381 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 2: The business makes the money. That's how I do it. 382 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: When there are places that you can go to and say, Okay, 383 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: I need help raising money, I need some grant money. 384 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: I need to figure this out. 385 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: And it does require us doing that type of leg 386 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: work and thinking outside of the traditional. 387 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 4: Way exactly kind of get a little creative. I think 388 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 4: the first business incubator that I was a part of 389 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 4: was through New York City, through kind of just an 390 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 4: initiative they had around helping entrepreneurs. It was a ten 391 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 4: week program at Brooklyn Library where I would meet other entrepreneurs. 392 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 4: We would learn all the fundamentals of how to run 393 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 4: a successful business. And so there are ways in which 394 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 4: you can do this as well. 395 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 3: You make this all sound so effortless, and your perspective 396 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: in the book is so beautiful, and you're you know 397 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: this this soft kind energy. But it has not been 398 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: easy for you, No, not at all. And I know 399 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: you coming out since your mother came over here from Ghana, 400 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 3: and I know you went through a lot of imposter syndrome, 401 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: not only being a black person, but being a black immigrant. 402 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: You ran into some resistance in the black community as well. 403 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 3: How did that affect you? 404 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 4: You know, it really taught me that there's just so 405 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 4: much nuance and complexity. I think within the black community 406 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 4: we talk about how it's not a monolith, right, but 407 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 4: then to also experience that from the kind of immigrant experience, 408 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 4: and something that really crystallizes for me was I went 409 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: to an all girls preparatory school for high school, and 410 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 4: that was the first time I would say that I 411 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 4: was met with kind of a Black American experience and 412 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 4: how that differs from a kind of African experience in 413 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 4: a Canadian one that I was having. And you know, 414 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 4: you think we all look the same, but that doesn't 415 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 4: mean that we're necessarily going to drive and connect because 416 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 4: there was kind of cultural dissonances, and especially growing up 417 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 4: in the home that I did my mom so much 418 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 4: and well intentioned, but her attempt to create distance between 419 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 4: herself and her family and what she saw was, you know, 420 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 4: the ills of racism kind of playing out in American context, 421 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 4: was to say, hey, at homework in Nyan. First and foremost, 422 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 4: I didn't really have a context for what that meant. 423 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 4: But then when I was, you know, socializing in high 424 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 4: school and I was seeing the differences play out. It 425 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 4: kind of was just all these layers of how I 426 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 4: felt marginalized or other or different in these contexts, And again, 427 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 4: I think it gave me a vision or understanding for 428 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 4: how all the different ways we have to think about 429 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 4: this and also all that we need to get a 430 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 4: line down when it comes to black unification, even to 431 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 4: strive when you're thinking about economic thriving and security. There's 432 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 4: all these ways in which we have points of differentiation, 433 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 4: but those should not be obstacles ultimately when we're thinking 434 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 4: about this shared goal of how can we live lives 435 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 4: of abundance? 436 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I can't stand saying all the division 437 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: that there is between Okay, I'm Black American, Well you're African, 438 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: but you're a West Indian. Well you're this, so you're 439 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: not black. It's like that conversation to me is at 440 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: the end of the day, when they see. 441 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: You, what are you? 442 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone's treated the same, but a lot's going on there. 443 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 3: We've spoken about this. Black immigrants create thirty percent more 444 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 3: wealth than Black Americans and it's a totally different sense 445 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: of self and mindset. Where do you think that comes from? 446 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think something we had talked about that 447 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 4: was like, so spot on was that within the Black 448 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 4: American lived experience, some of the rootedness is really around 449 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 4: kind of imposter syndrome, because it's a question of well, 450 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 4: where do I come from, where my roots, where's home? 451 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 4: Whereas for me, especially growing up in a Ghanaian home 452 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 4: in America, I always was rooted to my Ghanan culture. 453 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 4: I was always rooted back to home and ocean away 454 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 4: and had a really clear understanding of where I come 455 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 4: from and who I belonged to. And so I think 456 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 4: that gave me a different orientation to the kind of 457 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 4: work that I could do, the life that I could have. 458 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 4: And yes, it was a lot of hard work, it 459 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 4: was a lot of challenges, but I didn't come from 460 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 4: a rootedness and just not knowing kind of where I 461 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 4: come from. And that kind of played out for me 462 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 4: because we're all byproducts of our communities, our context, but 463 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 4: then also kind of the foundation within which we come from, 464 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 4: and if we don't have that rudedness, it can create 465 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 4: a different set of outcomes as well. And so I 466 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 4: think that adds to some of what people will say 467 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 4: are those differences that we get caught up in. But 468 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 4: again it's like we can't end the conversation there, and 469 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,959 Speaker 4: that action has to you know, push past that. 470 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 3: We had Caroline, Caroline Wanga on last week and she 471 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 3: has a book that just came out and she's so 472 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: connected to her African roots and you see how that's 473 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 3: affected her and for Americans, Black Americans, that's just not there. Right. 474 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: She knows both sides of her family like everything, like everything, 475 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: and the whole history of who they were, and the 476 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: values are in hers exactly who she is, and that 477 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: disconnect that doesn't exist for Black Americans, like my parents 478 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: never talked about, you know, they didn't know about that. 479 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: They came from such abjunct, crazy situations in the South 480 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: that it was you have to you know, super excel 481 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: to make it here, so you you know, to be 482 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: super stacy, you have to you know, have that and 483 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: that pressure. It's it's real for Black Americans and it's 484 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: and it's a very different experience. 485 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I acknowledge that. I think that it becomes 486 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,479 Speaker 4: a point that we have to talk about regardless of 487 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 4: how difficult it is. But then still think about, well, 488 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 4: how do we address this in a community context to 489 00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 4: you know, push past it. 490 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about attending a PWI. Also, I 491 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: would love to hear that, because, as you know, I 492 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: have friends who have kids now who are thinking about, like, oh, 493 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: it's hard because I don't want my kid to be 494 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: the only black kid in the school. But then you know, 495 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: HBCUs like attending an HBCU. I hear people talking about 496 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: why they want to and how, you know, amazing it's been. 497 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: But then I've also heard people be like, well, I 498 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: don't want that. That's not the real world. So I want 499 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: to know what your thoughts are having experienced that PWI. 500 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 4: I mean, it is not for the faint of heart 501 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 4: to get through that experience. Yeah, it was tough. I 502 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 4: mean I'll tell you stories of you know, sometimes my 503 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 4: mom would bring me Ganean food and that was like 504 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 4: comfort food for me because I went to a boarding 505 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 4: school and I would eat it in the storage closet 506 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 4: because people would be so critical of, oh, what's that 507 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 4: it smells funny, you know, different things like that, and 508 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 4: so in so many ways, it was just all these 509 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 4: attempts to kind of strip me of my comp and 510 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 4: even that rootedness that I knew that I had. And 511 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 4: you know, I have friends who went to Howard HBCUs 512 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 4: and even before they went they thought, oh, oh, this 513 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 4: isn't realistic, Like, this isn't a kind of portrayal of 514 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 4: what real life is going to look like. It's not 515 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 4: going to be a set up for success. But then 516 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 4: when they went through it, they're like, I would never 517 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 4: create that for anything. And even when I talk to 518 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 4: some of my friends who teach at some HBCUs, they 519 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 4: talk about the confidence of the students being different than 520 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 4: some of their black students in PWI places because they 521 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 4: just really get kind of this overpouring of love and confidence, 522 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 4: and it's something so beautiful I think to be a 523 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 4: black student be taught by black professors, even to be 524 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,239 Speaker 4: in a context where you are really celebrated for who 525 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 4: you are, there's nothing wrong with it. You're not going 526 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 4: to be questioned in that sense. And so I would 527 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 4: have loved to do that personally. Because of the PWI experience, 528 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 4: it's challenging, but I will say I think it did 529 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 4: give me some strategies and tactics for how to navigate. 530 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 4: I've been in spaces where I've been you know, the other, 531 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 4: or in these marginalized experiences, and so unfortunately you get 532 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 4: used to it, but you kind of learn how you 533 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 4: navigate those spaces, and it's required, I think when you 534 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 4: think about just how do you participate as a black 535 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 4: person in a capitalist context? Anyways, it comes at such 536 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 4: a cost. 537 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 3: Poster child for PWI definitely the most defining thing I 538 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 3: went through, and as I did a story I believe 539 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 3: when I was at CNN on the director Andre Robert Lee, 540 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 3: who wrote did the documentary Prep School Negro about him 541 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,479 Speaker 3: growing up in going to a prep school in Philly, 542 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: but his mother was like poverty line, so he had 543 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 3: the economic not fitting in and the PWI experience. And 544 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 3: I went to interview him and beautiful penhouse and so 545 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 3: and soho and you know, successful director. I don't know why, 546 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 3: it just came up and out of me. I just 547 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 3: looked at him and I'm like, are you broke? And 548 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 3: he's like, how did you know that? And then you know, 549 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 3: I go into the research. People who grow up in 550 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 3: that situation have a very very very distinct financial behavior 551 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 3: pattern that always assimilating and keeping up. That just becomes natural, 552 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 3: and things like self confidence and self esteem can't develop 553 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 3: because you're surviving. You're in survival mode to fit in 554 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 3: and they have a textbook financial pattern that I'm you know, 555 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 3: leading to a lot of debt. And I know I'm 556 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 3: you know, just been so on top of that to 557 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 3: make sure that you know, my son went to this school, 558 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 3: but I'm like started a diversity committee at his first 559 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 3: school right on top of all of that. But it's 560 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 3: a serious experience. And where we met at I was 561 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 3: had the honor of being in a book club that 562 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: your book was. I kind of sat back and noticed 563 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: that there was a lot of very very successful black 564 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 3: people there and I see where, like a lot of 565 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 3: the people I work with, a lot of the audiences 566 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 3: I serve and stuff don't relate to that group. And 567 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 3: I saw how much that group didn't relate to the 568 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 3: experience of everyday entrepreneurs. And I love the fact that 569 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 3: you emphasize you don't necessarily have I'm not here to say, 570 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 3: get a college degree, get all that. There's other models 571 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: for entrepreneurship, So tell us about those a little bit. 572 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think what's so important, especially in 573 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 4: this framework for black capitalism, is you could say, oh, 574 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 4: this is really almost like an elite story to be 575 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 4: a black capitalist, and that's not the case. By any means, 576 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 4: because I think when you really think about social good 577 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 4: and community orientation, that does require a level of organizing. 578 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 4: So how can we all come together. Some folks might 579 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 4: have more monetary resources than others, but that's not to 580 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 4: say other folks don't have other resources, whether it be 581 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 4: kind of social capital that they have, or human capital, 582 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 4: or just things to offer, you know, to really get 583 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 4: us to that place of a more kind of liberatory 584 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 4: economic future. That way, equity, yes, yes, it's huge, and 585 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 4: so we really have to kind of think about that 586 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 4: because yes, you know, in the context of what you raised, 587 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 4: there can be this kind of dissonance or a lack 588 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 4: of familiarity or engagement or an understanding that we all 589 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 4: have different positions within the spectrum of capitalism that we 590 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 4: live in. But you know, when you think about entrepreneurship, 591 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 4: even for my situation, like I started with a Kickstarter, 592 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 4: I had two thousand dollars of my personal funds that 593 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 4: I put in you know, talk to friends and family, 594 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 4: was able to cobble together another two thousand dollars and 595 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 4: then really leaned into those institutional resources to then kind 596 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 4: of build you know, the building blocks of kilowill and 597 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 4: then getting the brick and mortar space, which I got 598 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 4: through COVID, and that was a time where landlords were 599 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 4: more reasonable, you know, with rents and everything like that, 600 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 4: and so it was just kind of good timing, striking 601 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 4: when the iron was hot, and then that was what 602 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 4: kind of really gave me, you know, those first stuff, 603 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 4: and then also really focusing on being grassroots and really 604 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 4: getting into the community, spending time they're really letting that 605 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 4: be the foundation to building my businesses at least, and 606 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 4: that's where I kind of saw success. So it didn't 607 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 4: start from a place of just having access resources by 608 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 4: any means. It was very much a lean startup model 609 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 4: where it was like everything that I do is because 610 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 4: people are wanting to see it reflected in the business, 611 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 4: whether it be a product or a distribution channel, et cetera. 612 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: I love that because part of what I'm trying to 613 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: do now, like even with this building I have in Detroit, 614 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: part of that is also making some of those units 615 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: for people who are just as impacted and making sure 616 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: that we're like, while I'm trying to make sure I 617 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: build it my portfolio, I also want to make sure 618 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: that it's doing something that's positive in the community, and 619 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: so that's really the model that we're trying to follow, 620 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: I think in everything that we do. 621 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: So I love that. 622 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: And you talked about COVID times I did the same thing, 623 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: like just negotiating during that time, yes, and being able. 624 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about also working in wealth 625 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: management and financial planning and things like that. 626 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 2: How important is it you think for. 627 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: People to actually go to experts that can help them 628 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to making sure that they're you know, 629 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: kind of maximizing what it is that they have when 630 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,479 Speaker 1: it comes to finances. Because we always talk about this, 631 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: sometimes people feel like, well, if I'm not rich, what 632 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: do I need to even worry about that? 633 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 4: For Yeah, big misconception. It's like if you can save, 634 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 4: if you can invest, do it, do it yesterday, Like, 635 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 4: you know, get on it as soon as possible. And 636 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 4: I will say, doing your homework is really important because 637 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 4: there's a lot of misinformation out there as well. And 638 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 4: you know, we're also living in a time where getting 639 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 4: an advisor can be very expensive when perhaps the kind 640 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 4: of investing strategy that might work for you doesn't even 641 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 4: require it. You might want to do a more kind 642 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 4: of self directed approach, which also doesn't mean if you 643 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 4: think like, oh, self directed, I don't really have the 644 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 4: knowledge what does that mean? But there can be very 645 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 4: simple ways kind of building blocks to starting investing even 646 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 4: with you know, minimal funds on a regular basis. But 647 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 4: I would say I think what's really important is investing 648 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 4: consistently and even kind of going through the volatilities that 649 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 4: we might see that might create anxiety and worry and fear. 650 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 4: You got to just keep doing it, got to keep 651 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,239 Speaker 4: doing it, kind of chipping away at it. And like 652 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 4: I said, I think we're in a time where financial 653 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 4: knowledge is getting more and more democratized, and so it's 654 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 4: not just this kind of thing that feels exclusionary or 655 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 4: for elite people or something like that. And so tap in. 656 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 4: You know, the time is now and you can really 657 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 4: kind of get into it regardless of how many funds 658 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 4: you have. And so that's really important for people to know. 659 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 3: When you talk about black capitalism. You know, we just 660 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 3: had to target boycott. This community has so much economic power. Yeah, 661 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 3: and it's we've seen is like target, but we've never 662 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 3: seen anything really turn into like a game stop moment 663 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 3: when everybody pulled all their money out of that stock 664 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 3: and then really forced real change. We have the power 665 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: to do that. How do we click into that? 666 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, while our kind of positionality within capitalism 667 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 4: is evolving as black people, the one that's been most 668 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 4: familiar to us has been our kind of consumerist orientation. 669 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 4: And to your point, that's where we have so much 670 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 4: economic power, and so that's where that social good piece 671 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 4: becomes really important, the community piece and the shared objective 672 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 4: around what are we really aiming to do collectively, Because again, capitalism, 673 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 4: as we know, it's all about the individual. It's all 674 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 4: about kind of creating distance between each other as we're 675 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 4: all striving for profitability and excess resources. But if we 676 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 4: can start looking at each other, talking to each other 677 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 4: about what really matters to us collectively, what's going to 678 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 4: get us to this next step and how can we 679 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 4: show wit and negotiate for it with our dollars which 680 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 4: we use every day and that's a symbol for how 681 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 4: we vote every day. So we really have to think 682 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 4: about it in that sense, and that's what then creates 683 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 4: tangible change for us as well. And everybody can have 684 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 4: access to that, you. 685 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 3: Know, before you go tell everyone about your bakery stuff, 686 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 3: and where they can get it. It's so good. I 687 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 3: like talking. 688 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 4: Oh so yes, Kally Now it's all e commerce and wholesale, 689 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 4: and so you can go to Kally NYC dot com 690 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,240 Speaker 4: check out all the planting. 691 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 3: Good all that. 692 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 4: Yes, So that's k E L E W E L 693 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 4: E n YC dot com and we ship nationwide. If 694 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 4: you're in New York City, you can go to gin 695 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 4: Jan both their Harlem and their Brooklyn location and Brooklyn 696 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 4: t the Brooklyn location to get our good. 697 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 3: What's your obsession with plantains? 698 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 4: Oh, you know, it's it's my planting love story. It 699 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 4: starts culturally. So Kellally long before was the name of 700 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 4: my business. It's the name of a popular Ginean street 701 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 4: food and it's basically write plantains coated in spices and 702 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 4: ginger and you fry it to golden perfection and it's 703 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 4: the most delicious thing. And so my mom would make 704 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 4: that for me growing up as a kid. And then 705 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 4: fast forward, you know, I start undergrad at NYU. I'm 706 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 4: like on a budget, and I was also going plant 707 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 4: based at that time, and so plantains became a dairy 708 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 4: substitute for me, a meat substitute, and you can get 709 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 4: like four for a dollar at that time not so 710 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 4: much anymore, you know, So I was eating them all 711 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 4: the time. And then fast forward again when I was 712 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 4: in grad school, you know, taking my anthro one oh 713 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 4: one classes. We anthropologists were so curious about culture, how 714 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 4: it's created and sustained. And I kind of have this 715 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 4: light bulb moment of thinking about plantains as a medium 716 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 4: to really think about culture and identity, because even for me, 717 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 4: I have familial kind of memories that are evoked when 718 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 4: I eat plantains now that bring me back to my mom, 719 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 4: my grandma, etc. And I can be West African, the 720 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 4: next person from the Caribbean, the next person from Latin America. 721 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 4: We're all eating plantations, even though we're preparing it differently. 722 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 4: So I really wanted to build a business that really 723 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 4: spoke to cultural connection, innovation, and familiarity as well. 724 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 3: Somehow this is all in your book. Yeah, it is 725 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 3: such a good book, everybody, honestly, Black Capitalist, And it 726 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 3: came out just a few weeks ago. And where can 727 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 3: people get it? 728 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 4: Anywhere books are sold, wherever you get your. 729 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 3: Books, Amazon and everybody watched the full interview on YouTube, 730 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 3: and we'll have a link to her book so you 731 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 3: can get it so that you can get it, but 732 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 3: it is. You're just a delight and your book is 733 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 3: really groundbreaking, groundbreaking stuff, and we are so excited that 734 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 3: you stopped by to spend some time with us. 735 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. We appreciate you so much. 736 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. 737 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 3: It's a gift Black capitalist, everybody. Get it on Amazon 738 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 3: right now.