1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we try 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: to get to the heart of the issues that matter 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: to you. Today we're talking all things foreign policy and 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: trying to achieve peace throughout the world. 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: Roner to have Fred. 6 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: Flights, vice chair of the America First Policy Institute, Center 7 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: for American Security and former chief of Staff at the 8 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: National Security Council under President Trump, someone who understands President 9 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: Trump's line of thinking when it comes to foreign policy. 10 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: So we're going to discuss that pivotal Trump putin meeting 11 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: in Alaska. What does it mean, What are the implications 12 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: for trying to resolve the Ukraine conflict. We also talk 13 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: about the broader strategic dynamics shaping US foreign policy. Why 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: has President Trump been able to broker so many peace deals, 15 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: what makes them so different than past presidents. We're going 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: to dig into someone who knows, understands the man and 17 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: also understands the foreign policy implications of all of this. 18 00:00:52,479 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: So stay tuned for Fred Flights. Fred, it's great to 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: have you on this show. 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: It's been a while since we've caught up, so I 21 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: appreciate you. 22 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: Making the time good to be here. 23 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: So looking at this summit in Alaska. I guess sort of, 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: are you what's your broad takeaway? It's it's you know, 25 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: it's been criticized by the media, but obviously that doesn't 26 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: always mean much because they don't get anything correct. 27 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 2: But what are your takeaways from it? 28 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, President Trump is just so frustrated 29 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 3: with the mainstream media. He tweeted a little while ago 30 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 3: that if Russia had surrendered the whole country to Ukraine, 31 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 3: they still claim this was a failure for Trump. And 32 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 3: I think that that's exactly right. Whatever Trump does, they're against. 33 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 3: And you know, Europe loves to complain and criticize Trump 34 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: for what he's doing, but there's no alternative. The only 35 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 3: reason is a peace plan or peace process is because 36 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 3: of Trump. Europeans didn't do this before he was elected. 37 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: What happened in Alaska was that Trump went to Putin 38 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: and he determined that he had enough progress to go 39 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: to the next age. And we know from history that 40 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: peacemaking is hard and coming up with agreements to stop 41 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 3: wars usually takes painstaking negotiations. So there were some things 42 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 3: agreed to, some weren't agreed to. Some were sensitive issues 43 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 3: that Trump has to talk to the Europeans and Zelensky 44 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: about and the fact that there's a second stage that 45 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 3: Trump's going to meeting was Lensky and the Europeans today, 46 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: I think is very promising. The most important thing out 47 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: of the summit was talked that there may be an 48 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: agreement of security assurances that Russia may agree to that 49 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 3: something that the Europeans in the US might do to 50 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: prevent Russia from evading again. If that's true, it could 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: be a change to the whole scenario that might mean 52 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: a long lasting peace agreement. 53 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 2: Do you think it was a positive meeting? 54 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 3: Trump says it was a positive meeting. It was a 55 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: ten out of ten, and I think looking at what happened, 56 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 3: it was probably the best we could get out of Putin. 57 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: It's worth noting that our relations with Russia was very 58 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: bad under Biden. Remember Biden didn't speak to Putin after 59 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 3: February twenty twenty two. He did nothing but demonize him. 60 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 3: Biden once compared Putin du Amas and this is some 61 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: of the baggage that Trump had overcome to get a 62 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: peace process started. So I think it was as positive 63 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: as possible. There's a long way to go, but I 64 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: think if Trump determined that Putin wasn't interested in negotiating 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: good faith to end the war, he would have walked away. 66 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: I mean, and he said that, you know, I remember 67 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: in his interview with Brett Baer, he was saying that, 68 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: if you know, if he's unhappy at any point, or 69 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: he feels like Putin's kind of give him the run around, 70 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: that he's out, he's willing to walk. 71 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: And I believe that. I also just think it's a 72 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: good thing. 73 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: Look, President Trump is indicated or demonstrated even during his 74 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: first arm he's always willing to talk, He's always willing 75 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: to negotiate. And Putin, you know, obviously chose to do 76 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: this under Biden. He wouldn't have done it under Trump. 77 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: What do you think Putin wants from all this? 78 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, to that point, you know, people 79 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: were saying this is a big win for Putin because 80 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: he got a meeting with Trump. That's just wrong. American 81 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: and Russian presidents should be meeting and talking all the time. 82 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: The fact that Biden didn't do this made the world 83 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: less safe. And as you said, Trump wants to speak 84 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 3: to Putin, he wants to speak to i Ron's leaders, 85 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: to China's leaders. That's good statesmanship that keeps the world 86 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 3: more stable and secure. So whether there's a meeting, one 87 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 3: succeeded or failed, I think Trump accomplished something. I think 88 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 3: Putin is looking for a way out of the war. 89 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 3: He would take as much Ukrainian territory as you can 90 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 3: get away with, but he wants to avoid punishing sanctions 91 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 3: from the United States. And I'm hoping he sees Trump 92 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: as his one opportunity to end Russia's isolation and maybe 93 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: strike deals. It would make Russia more prosperous. 94 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: And Zelensi probably just wants Russia out of all of 95 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: its territory. They want like a complete withdrawal. 96 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, Zelenski wants that. He wants native membership, he wants 97 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 3: a U membership, and I wish you could get these things, 98 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: but they're not going to happen, and I think that 99 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: Zelensky has to focus on what's possible. I understand this 100 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: is really hard. He's going to lose part of his country, 101 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 3: but he can't be blaming Trump for this. There was 102 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: a time in twenty twenty two, in mid to the 103 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: fall twenty twenty two that if Biden and European leaders 104 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 3: had sent Ukraine the weapons they needed, they could have 105 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: pushed the Russians back. They didn't do that. Now the 106 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: Russians are dug in and they're advancing. Ukraine's running out 107 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: of troops. Ukraine has to strike the best deal it 108 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 3: can to save his country and to stop the killing. 109 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: I guess the challenge is, you know, we saw recently 110 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: in the Oval Office that spat between Zelenski and President 111 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Trump and JD. 112 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: Vans and then you know, Zelenski is essentially it kicked. 113 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: Out of my house, you know, like and you know 114 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: this is very public spat. Uh. I mean, I mean, 115 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: I think the challenge to me seems to like, can 116 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: Zelensky look at this in a clear eyed way. He 117 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: just seems like he's very emotionally charged in the way 118 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: he conducts business, which is challenging when you're trying to 119 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: get someone to reason with someone and to get them 120 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: to see things because you know, ultimately, as you pointed out, 121 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: Zelensky is probably gonna have to give up some of Ukraine, 122 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: but it just doesn't you know, it seems like he 123 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: sort of behaves a little bit belligerently. 124 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: Is that a fair assessment or how much of a challenge. 125 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: Do you think Zelensky is going to be and trying 126 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: to get him on the board with any sort of 127 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: peace agreement. 128 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 3: I don't think we're going to see the same blow 129 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 3: up in the Oval office that we saw last time. 130 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 3: But let's talk about what happened there. Zelensky was arguing 131 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: with Trump before the meeting. During the meeting, he was 132 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: rolling his eyes, acting very disrespectful for Trump. But what 133 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: people don't realize is that Zelensky was told to resist, 134 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: not just by the Europeans but by Democratic members of Congress. 135 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: Zelensky was given bad advice, and I think he paid 136 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 3: a price for that. It's set back peace efforts. I 137 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: think he's learned since then not to mess with Trump 138 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: and not to listen to people who have their own agendas. 139 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: I mean, the Democrats just want Trump to fail, and 140 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: their media was Zelensky all the time. They're they're they're 141 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: telling them all kinds of stuff that's not going to 142 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: end the war. I think Lynski realizes Trump's the only 143 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: one who can end this war. He may not like that, 144 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 3: but he has to deal with Trump. 145 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: Is it fair to say the Europeans are sort of 146 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: warming to President Trump? Or sort of like listening to him, 147 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, the NATO chief. I think it was like 148 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: a month ago, call him daddy, like you like try 149 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: to like lay on the charm. Is it fair to 150 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: say that, you know, Europeans are kind of uh, I 151 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: guess looking up to him more at. 152 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: This point than maybe right when he took office. 153 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: I think they're giving in to him. I don't think 154 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: they're warring to him. I don't think they like him. 155 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: I think most European leaders don't have a spine. They're 156 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: they're very brave when they're on their own and when 157 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 3: they speak to the news beating and when they leak. 158 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: But when you have a strong American president, none of 159 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 3: them know what to do. And that's why you keep 160 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 3: seeing these European leaders coming to the White House trying 161 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: to brown those and to get on Trump's good side. 162 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: You know the kind of leaders we saw World War two, 163 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: Winston Churchill. There's no Winston Churchill in Europe right now. 164 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: Certainly we don't have one in the UK, or in 165 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,119 Speaker 3: France or in Germany. They are liberal globalists. They're trying 166 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: to deal with Trump. They're not sure how to do that, 167 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 3: but frankly they're afraid of it. 168 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: I've got to take a quick commercial break. 169 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: More Fred on the other side, Well, it's pretty remarkable 170 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: the amount of peace agreements and ceasefires that President Trump 171 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: has been able to negotiate with. I think Cambodio. Cambodia 172 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: submitted a Nobel Peace Prize for President Trump with the 173 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: with Cambodia and Thailand, and then you've got Rwanda and Congo, 174 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, I mean the list goes on. And then 175 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: during the first administry you had the Abraham Accords. Why 176 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: do you think he's able to reach these peace deals 177 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: more broadly, I guess we'll call them when other presidents 178 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: were unable to do so. 179 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: A strong American president, a decisive one, is essential not 180 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 3: just for American security but for global security. And I 181 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 3: also think success breeds success, and these nations are turning 182 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: to Trump to resolve these crisis. You know that Cambodia 183 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: Thailand one is interesting because you know, in an earlier 184 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: era they may have went to China to resolve that, 185 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 3: but they didn't. They went to Trump. I think that's 186 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 3: very interesting. And this Azerbarijehan our media dispute. This is 187 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 3: something that before the war Ukraine Russia would adjudicated, but 188 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 3: in this instance, Trump adjudicated a peace settlement in Putin's backyard. 189 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: I think the idea that we have a decisive and 190 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: strong American president is good for global order. It's leading 191 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: states to come to him to make deals, and it's 192 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: always good for our country too. 193 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: What's interesting too if you just kind of like watching 194 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: his moves as as you have been doing, of just. 195 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: Sort of setting up American strength. 196 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: Like going to the Middle East and striking those deals 197 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: and talking about how like the future of the Middle 198 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: East is commerce not chaos. And and then even with 199 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: this EU deal, the seven hundred and fifty billion dollars 200 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: in energy purchased from the United States, trying to get 201 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: Europe to turn to us and to be dependent on 202 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: our oil as opposed to Russia. But just sort of 203 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: like these different moves to just try to like weaken China, 204 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: to weaken Russia, and to put America back as you know, 205 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: the world's leading superpower kind of walk us down some 206 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: of the or walk us through some of those steps 207 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: that you have seen in his efforts to try to 208 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: you know, isolate some of our enemies like China and 209 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: Russia and Oran and to strengthen the United States positioning power. 210 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 3: I would point to this critical that Trump made in 211 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia that you were referring to, in which he 212 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 3: said he wants peace through strength and commerce. Make it 213 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 3: deal with us and we'll all be rich. We're all 214 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: good rich. But he also said he does not want 215 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 3: America to have permanent enemies. He does not want to 216 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: engage in nation building or meddling in other systems. That 217 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: will respect other systems that we disagree with, that we 218 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: will not try to foice our system our values on 219 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 3: other societies. This is huge. It is a real repudiation 220 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: of John Bolton and George W. Bush and tons of 221 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 3: Democratic presidents who thought we should be deploying you as 222 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 3: troops to promote democratization and regime change. Trump moved away 223 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: from that, and that means he may be able to 224 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: make deals with nations who before would not even meet 225 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 3: with us. That's why I think we could make a 226 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 3: deal with Iron, we may be able to deal with China. 227 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 3: That's why other nations I think are saying, we think 228 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 3: Trump's going to be a fair inner. Let's see if 229 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 3: he can resolve our dispute. 230 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: Do you think the toughest nut for him to crack 231 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: is probably with Russia and Ukraine. 232 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 3: I do because this conflict is in such a it 233 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 3: has deteriorated so badly, and it was made so much 234 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 3: worse by the incompetent Biden administration and Europeans strategy. Remember, 235 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 3: Biden's strategy for Ukraine was to arm Ukraine for as 236 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: long as it takes. He had no plan to end 237 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: the war. He never called for talks to end it, 238 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 3: he never called for a ceasefire. There was basically no strategy. 239 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 3: We're just going to dump weapons on Ukraine for the 240 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: rest of time, which, as you and I know, the 241 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 3: Republican of Congress, the House at least, was not going 242 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: to approve this much longer. So this was a strategy 243 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 3: that was not going to work. But Biden didn't try 244 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 3: anything else, and neither did the Europeans that caused this 245 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 3: dispute to get worse and worse and worse. So look, 246 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 3: Trump has sold his whole national security team on the 247 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 3: field working on this. And you know, Frankly Putin disrespected 248 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 3: Trump by not dealing with him earlier in good faith, 249 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 3: by ignoring these efforts by his staff. That's why Trump 250 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: proposed these very tough sanctions to send weapons to Ukraine 251 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: through NATO. That I think that's how we got to 252 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: the Alaska summit. But it is a difficult not to crack. 253 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: And we've seen his posture with Putin, you know, tough enough. 254 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: I mean, he's always been tough on him, like even 255 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: if you look at the first administration, I mean, he's 256 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: never been afraid to you know, hold Putin's feet to 257 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: the fire and to stand up to him. But it 258 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: does seem like the posture has changed a little bit 259 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: where you know, before he was kind of like maybe 260 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: a little bit more open to stuff, and then now 261 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: he's kind of brought the hammer down a little bit, 262 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: it would seem do. 263 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 2: You agree with that? And then also why do you 264 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: think that is what's behind that? 265 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: Well, previously Trump tried to deal with Putin cordially as 266 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: a fellow head of state, and that's what he was 267 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 3: trying to work on through his diplomats, especially with cough. 268 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: But when and then there were a lot of phone 269 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 3: calls between Putin and Trump, but Putin basically was pushing 270 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: pushing Trump down the road. I forget the term the 271 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: Trump used and accelerating the war, despite Trump's Trump's efforts 272 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: to end it. So Trump surprised everyone by changing tactics 273 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 3: when he started criticizing Putin, announced that he would send 274 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 3: weapons to Ukraine through NATO and announce he would put 275 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: these tough energy sanctions in place. No one would have 276 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 3: predicted that a few months ago. Everyone thought that Trump 277 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: was only going to engage in diplomacy with Putin, he 278 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 3: wasn't going to start these efforts to punish Russia. But 279 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 3: I think that, Look, this is the mark of a 280 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 3: good leader. When your policies aren't working, you have to 281 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: change those policies. You have to be flexible. And I 282 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: think Trump showed that with Putin, and frankly he showed 283 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: it with Iran when he surprised everyone when he bombed 284 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 3: these Iranian nuclear sites, something that I don't think anyone 285 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 3: thought Trump would ever do. 286 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: Well, that's like, I mean, how how much do you 287 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: think he because you've worked for President Trump, you were 288 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: a former National Security Accouncil Chief of staff under him, 289 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: how much of his decisions like he just seems like 290 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: he has really incredible instincts when it. 291 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: Comes to all of this stuff. How much of. 292 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: These decisions is like listening to the people around him, 293 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: like sort of giving advice versus him just saying you 294 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: know what, No, it's time to bomb around, like we 295 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: need to send this message. This is what's going to 296 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: get us closer to peace than you know, sanctions or 297 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: any sort of other kind of diplomacy. 298 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: Lisa, he listens and talks to all kinds of people. 299 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 3: I'm sure he listens to you. I'm sure he watches 300 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 3: you very very close to when you're on TV couple. 301 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: I mean, he watches Fox, so I know he's I'm 302 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: I'm joking listening to you, and and and people don't 303 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 3: realize he's also a voracious reader, and he reads mature 304 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: from lots of people. He reads some of the stuff 305 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: that I write, and he uses his material to make 306 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: up his mind. There's certain advisors who he trusts more 307 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: than others that gives some key advice. And I also 308 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: know that when he gets advice and recommendations, he disagrees 309 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: with it. They'll say to people, I think you're wrong, 310 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 3: and I'm not going to go that way. 311 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's brilliant. But even like you know, 312 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: for instance, you were talking about the Saudi Arabia speech 313 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: for the future of the Middle East, is commerce not 314 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: chaos or even with the minerals deal in Ukraine, like 315 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: he ties foreign policy to economic deals. And you know, 316 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: because you could kind of see his line of thinking 317 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: with Zelenski feeling like he wasn't getting security guarantees. But 318 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: from President Trump's perspective, it's like US being involved in 319 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: business in Ukraine and mineral mining, like that is a 320 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: security guarantee. 321 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what the Trump administration has been arguing. But 322 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: I think this is even more important for Putin. I 323 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 3: don't think Putin's just going to make compromises to end 324 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: the war without some type of incentive. But the idea 325 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 3: that Russia could become more prosperous with deals through the 326 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 3: US and there may be new Russia America partnerships to 327 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 3: deal with global problems to make Russia great power again. 328 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: I think that really appeals to Putin. And you know, 329 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: the optics of Putin riding in the limo, which Trump 330 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 3: calls the beast in Alaska. You know, the media laughed 331 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 3: at that, but that was an important symbol of how 332 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: Trump is trying to bring Putin back as someone who's 333 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 3: at least friendly to the US right now. Frankly, Russia 334 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 3: is an enemy and this really is a dangerous situation. 335 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 3: Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on earth. That's a 336 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: bigger threat to us than Ukraine. 337 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: Ever, will be got to take a quick commercial break. 338 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: If you like what you're. 339 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: Hearing, please share on social media or maybe send it 340 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: to some friends. What also just seems like President Trump 341 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: sees things more clear eyed than you know, past presidents 342 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: and also just has like, I mean, he's really great 343 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: political instincts in terms of obviously you know, the Ronald's 344 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: thing or the you know, getting dressed up for a 345 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: trash truck and Wisconsin. 346 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: You know, like he just but he's great. 347 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: Political instincts are great, you know, foreign policy instincts as well. 348 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: It would seem like I remember during the first administration, 349 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: the summit with North Korea, and there was like this 350 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: video I don't know if you remember this, the video 351 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: that he showed Kim Joe Noon, and it was like, 352 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: you know what, it was like, you have two paths, 353 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: right Like It's like you could peace and prosperity, and 354 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: it's like everyone like loving life and making money and 355 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: you know, and then the next is like bombs and 356 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: like we're going to crush you, you know, and it's 357 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: like it's just but I just like he's smart and 358 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: sort of knowing understanding, and I don't know if it's 359 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: all just the years of business, right, but he just 360 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: seems to be able to understand different world leaders and 361 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: like what it takes to move the needle with each one, 362 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: and is that what do you think about that? 363 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: I think that's right. And he doesn't care about the 364 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 3: conventional wisdom on how to do things as the usual 365 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 3: way of doing things. Basically all the foreign policy experts 366 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 3: thought me and Kim Jong was in a mistake rewarding 367 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 3: the North Korean dictated with the presidential summit, but that 368 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 3: meeting stopped North Korean missile tests for eighteen months. They 369 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 3: didn't test any long range missiles until after the disastrous 370 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 3: US withdrawal from Afghanistan. There hasn't been a nuclear test 371 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 3: September twenty seventeen, and I think that's because of Trump. 372 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 3: I think the North Koreans thought about it during the 373 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 3: by and years. I think they came close, but I 374 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 3: think that suspension in those tests, which is crucial to 375 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 3: slowing North Korea's nuclear program. They have to test to 376 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: prove that their weapons work was important. So I mean, 377 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,479 Speaker 3: this is a this is a businessman who looks at 378 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 3: all the options, doesn't let people talk them out of 379 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 3: things that haven't been tried before, and is willing to 380 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: try new things when what we've done in the past 381 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: didn't work. 382 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 2: No, I thought that was brilliant. You're right, because I 383 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: remember after the summit. 384 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: Like it seemed like, you know, because there was all 385 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: the you know, rocketman and sort of like this heightened 386 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: escalation between the two countries, and then after that kind 387 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: of seems like we stopped hearing about you know, North Korea, 388 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: and you know, stopped kind of hearing the threads. 389 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: So before we go, what do you think what is achievable? 390 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: I guess in trying to bring either ceasefire or some 391 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: sort of peace agreement or like whatever it's called, whatever 392 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: it looks like, what do you think is actually achievable 393 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: between that the two leaders of you know, Putin of 394 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: Russia and Ukraine can go back home and sell it 395 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: to their people that Trump's going to be happy with. 396 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: Like, what is actually achievable here? 397 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of unknown despite all these leaks, 398 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 3: and I think, as I said, earlier. You may go 399 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 3: into negotiations with one opening position that may not be 400 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 3: where you end up. So whatever is being leaked at 401 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: bet where Putin is, we really don't know where he is, 402 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 3: where he'll end up. But I suspect it may come 403 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: down to Ukraine agreeing to some type of a land 404 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 3: swamp in exchange for a security gam tea arrangement with 405 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 3: the Europeans. Getting Russia to agree to that would be 406 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 3: a huge breakthrough, which no one talked about before Alaska. 407 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 3: That's actually on the table. Uh. We could have the 408 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 3: makings of a pretty substantial agreement to end this war. 409 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 3: But I whether we're going to get putin air, whether 410 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 3: he'll really agree to that, I think that's going to 411 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: be hard, but it's it's the it's those are the 412 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 3: kind of proposals that I think could lead to an 413 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: agreement both sides could live. 414 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: With bred flates. 415 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: I'm not feeling so great, so I'm a little out 416 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: of it, But thank god, you're not You're you're you're 417 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: feel gray in your sharp Thanks for carrying the conversation today. 418 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you making the time and interesting stuff, 419 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: and you know, well, hopefully something's reached because it's just 420 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: it's it's better for for us, it's better for them, 421 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: and it's just it's better for you know, global peace 422 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: and security. So and if anyone's going to do it, 423 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: it's it's President Trump. So appreciate you making the time 424 00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: my friend. 425 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: Good feel better. 426 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: Thanks, take care those Fred Flit's Feie share of the 427 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: America First Policy Institute Center for American Security. We appreciate 428 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: him for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at 429 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 1: home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday. 430 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: You can listen throughout the week. 431 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: Also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting 432 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: the show together. 433 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: Until next time.