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Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know
Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well. Hey, there,
Speaker 1: welcome to an episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin,
Speaker 1: joined per usual by Joe and Steve, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about a mystery. Is it really? That's a scary
Speaker 1: mystery too? On top of just how do we not
Speaker 1: do this in in October? Because not enough people asked
Speaker 1: for it? I think I have asked for it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've been willful ignoring I guess. So. Once again, this
Speaker 1: is examples of where Joe doesn't look at the inbox,
Speaker 1: does not look at the internet stuff, like at the
Speaker 1: inbox all the time. I answered a couple of emails
Speaker 1: just today he did actually thank you. So this week
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the skin Walker ranch or
Speaker 1: how I learned to stop worrying and accept my alien overlords.
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, oh boy, oh, I can always
Speaker 1: tell we're in for a ride when you've subtimes given
Speaker 1: subtext to the title of the episode. Yeah, that's true,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be Buckle up guy. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, now this is the place So and the
Speaker 1: Aliens finally decided to open up those those timespace portals
Speaker 1: and flood through and take over the world. That's going
Speaker 1: to happen here. I'm sure gonna happen here. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give in. I'm just gonna turn
Speaker 1: you two in as conspirators. Yeah, I'm gonna be a
Speaker 1: total quizzling Yeah, that's funny because all they have to
Speaker 1: do is listen to our backlog and they'll know who
Speaker 1: their true ally is me hobnoutly obviously not yeah fake
Speaker 1: in the whole time your sarcasm. Aliens won't know what
Speaker 1: sarcasm is. Let's be fair right there. That's why she's
Speaker 1: going to get vapori. Okay, was already off track. Al Right, restart, Okay.
Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about what's widely accepted as
Speaker 1: the weirdest place in America. Although I have been to
Speaker 1: the Oregon Vortex, so I say, no, that's the weirdest spot.
Speaker 1: That is a weird place. Out here. I had not
Speaker 1: been there. Actually, we've never been to my my family's house.
Speaker 1: It's actually a pretty weird place to I'll put that
Speaker 1: on the list. Okay, that's fair. Yeah. Anyway, skin Walker
Speaker 1: Ranch in Utah, since it's creation almost fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. I think that's when it
Speaker 1: became when all of it was cock solidated, but all
Speaker 1: of the acreage was brought under one kind of umbrella.
Speaker 1: I think the house is actually built. Yeah, but all
Speaker 1: of the land surrounding it is now skin Walker Ranch,
Speaker 1: I think wasn't It wasn't all a part of the
Speaker 1: same thing until so the footprint was established in fifty
Speaker 1: years ago. That's a good way to say. Um, strange
Speaker 1: things have been a foot there since then, including hundreds
Speaker 1: of UFO sightings, animal mutilations, and sightings of strange animals.
Speaker 1: And there are fifteen distinct phenomenons that have phenomenon's phen
Speaker 1: phenomena that have been recorded. So we're going to go
Speaker 1: ahead and just start there. Uh No, we're not going
Speaker 1: to talk about all fifteen. We'll talk about almost all
Speaker 1: of the fifteen, but not all fifteen. Yeah, these are
Speaker 1: and these started I believe in the mid nineteen nineties
Speaker 1: and like correct, Yes, that's when they started being tragged cataloged,
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, And a few of them have like
Speaker 1: back up in that, you know, somebody who owned the
Speaker 1: property before mentioned there are some articles from the seventies,
Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies that mentioned weird lights in the
Speaker 1: sky or things like that. So that's that's a little
Speaker 1: back up for some of these, but they weren't started
Speaker 1: being cataloged until the nineties. Yeah, that's weird lights, lights
Speaker 1: in the skies at this ranch, in the general area genera.
Speaker 1: I was reading, I read some of those, uh, those newspapers,
Speaker 1: you know. Thankfully Google's got all that catalog and I
Speaker 1: found a bunch of stuff from the area from about
Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies, late sixties forward and read a
Speaker 1: number of them, and mostly it's weird stuff in the sky.
Speaker 1: It's not so much what we're about to go through,
Speaker 1: but it's catalogs of odd events. Yeah. Also, um, right
Speaker 1: off the bat, before we go too far into this,
Speaker 1: I should note that a lot of these stories about
Speaker 1: Skinwalker Ranch are contained solely in one of four separate books,
Speaker 1: all of which were authored by a guy named Ryan Skinner,
Speaker 1: who I guess is one of the lead investigators in
Speaker 1: the area. I'm not really sure. I'm not sure. It's
Speaker 1: not totally clear. He definitely builds himself as having some
Speaker 1: really strong connection to Skinwalker Ranch, but and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I didn't see. Well, there's Skinner, and then there's George
Speaker 1: what's the reporter's name. Oh yeah, George George Knapp. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the one. He's done a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of I would say legwork maybe, but he's another one
Speaker 1: of the the sources that you'll find reference besides Walker Skinner.
Speaker 1: Skinner I had, But I think the actual first the
Speaker 1: first mention of it was it was it the Desire
Speaker 1: News in like nive or six. Yeah, local paper they've
Speaker 1: published an article about the ranch and about the current owners,
Speaker 1: who are the Sherman's Terrian when Yeah, but that was
Speaker 1: not George Knapp. No, it was let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: the weird cookiness here. Come on, people want to know
Speaker 1: about the strange thing. They want to know about all
Speaker 1: these things. So we're just gonna like direct from the website.
Speaker 1: This is where I pulled this list from. Format. It's
Speaker 1: not involve format. That's true branching out and it is.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. Um. So we're going to go through
Speaker 1: the list and then we'll come back and address some
Speaker 1: of these things. Okay, okay, cool, So on the list
Speaker 1: and up, yeah, okay. No. One of the things that
Speaker 1: I'm going to mention is that on this list, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like a little bit of a spreadsheet and
Speaker 1: it has like the name and like a little bit
Speaker 1: of a description, and then like some other information and
Speaker 1: then the percent chance you have of seeing this thing
Speaker 1: if you visit Skinwalker Ranch. Someone include the percentages because
Speaker 1: I think it's important just tell you this. Somebody figured
Speaker 1: out how to use Excel and that's the only reason
Speaker 1: these things are in there. But I'm not sure. Some
Speaker 1: of these percentages are weird. So I don't know how
Speaker 1: their couch. So I didn't say how to use it, right,
Speaker 1: they just learn how to use it. Anyway, this phenomena
Speaker 1: you have a two per chance of seeing it, and
Speaker 1: it's called the portal. This is a window into another
Speaker 1: dimension that opens on the property above the property there
Speaker 1: either orange or blue. Um. There have been no reports
Speaker 1: of explosive lemons, however, so we are safe from gladys
Speaker 1: for now, if you get it, you get it. If
Speaker 1: you don't, you don't. Just a fallout joke. No, it's
Speaker 1: definitely not a follow joke. Um. The portals open up
Speaker 1: for about ten seconds and they're about five hundred to
Speaker 1: a thousand feet in the air. The orange ones allow
Speaker 1: living creatures through and the blue one is for vehicles.
Speaker 1: So what happens to a vehicle when it comes through
Speaker 1: the portal and drops a house? No idea, it's no,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, start trying to figure it out. No,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's like flying vehicles. Not,
Speaker 1: it's not like terrestrial like it's not like a tank
Speaker 1: just falls from the south. No, no, no, it keeps
Speaker 1: like flying crafts. Okay, okay, like a che I was too.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, you know, a tank just falling
Speaker 1: out of this guy, And I was like, that's sound
Speaker 1: dangerous sitting around down below. Especially. Yeah, so you gotta
Speaker 1: run real fast. No one of these people lost so many. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: Fourteen is the sentient mist. You also have a two
Speaker 1: percent chance of seeing this, and the mist is a
Speaker 1: dark smokelike entity that maybe just a transitional phase for
Speaker 1: something else. It's often seen taking the form of a
Speaker 1: humanoid with tentacles for arms, So it's possible it's just
Speaker 1: Taranga Munda. I'm really sorry. There are so many nerve
Speaker 1: references today. It's just no, it doesn't matter anyways. The
Speaker 1: mist he uses its tentacles to toxify victims by inserting
Speaker 1: the tentacles in the mouth and using burning dust to
Speaker 1: suffocate them. The victims are immediately transported to the quote
Speaker 1: spirit world. I'm not totally sure how we know this.
Speaker 1: It kills you, I guess by those reports, But so
Speaker 1: I don't totally know how it is that we know
Speaker 1: that you go to the spirit world like a presumably
Speaker 1: somebody doesn't come back to life, but you know how
Speaker 1: many people, So I take it that they've seen this
Speaker 1: thing a fair number of times and it kills people
Speaker 1: every time. I have no idea, Yeah, I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I've this is this. It is like kind of a
Speaker 1: tough one to buy into. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: that in a minute. Next up is the Cathulu slug. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: it's number eleven on that list, but there's no information
Speaker 1: about it, not even how likely we are to see it.
Speaker 1: If we went to and Walker Ranch and it looks
Speaker 1: a whole lot like a really big leech, I think,
Speaker 1: but literally, the like the information on it is like,
Speaker 1: it's called the Catholi slug. It's a slug, it's big,
Speaker 1: it hurts people, dead slug. That's all, okay. Next up
Speaker 1: is water babies. Um. This is an actual thing that
Speaker 1: has been described by the local native communities in their myths.
Speaker 1: They were called PoCA pisas thank you. They're found in
Speaker 1: the water near skin Walker Ranch, and they're known for
Speaker 1: their vocalizations, which sounds like crying babies. The creatures in
Speaker 1: fact resemble a small human with black hair. If you
Speaker 1: are fooled by the crying, the water baby will drag
Speaker 1: you into the water with all its might and drown you.
Speaker 1: No word on what happens to you at that point,
Speaker 1: sir world, I guess I don't know, but you have
Speaker 1: a six percent chance that they'll do it. I'm right
Speaker 1: for an hour. So I don't think we said this before,
Speaker 1: But this whole thing take tkes place in Utah. There's
Speaker 1: not a lot of water. Well, my question was, I
Speaker 1: don't really know Utah to be a mecca for pot use,
Speaker 1: and yet this really sounds like what a bunch of
Speaker 1: stoners would talk about. Oh no, not stoners, but like
Speaker 1: some hallucin agens. Okay, guys on mushrooms. Yeah, they they
Speaker 1: have like that. They have like pot and stuff like
Speaker 1: that down there too. True, Yeah, that's probably okay, alright,
Speaker 1: might be I know what to cause. Got so. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're but if you're in Utah and
Speaker 1: you see a crying baby in the water, don't try
Speaker 1: to rescue it. Don't. Yeah, solid advice. Yeah. Number nine,
Speaker 1: you've got a chance of seeing this. It's the firefly
Speaker 1: sparts sprites. Excuse me, firefly sprites. These creatures are just
Speaker 1: really small balls of bluish light that float from the
Speaker 1: ground up to the sky. Just totally natural phenomena. I
Speaker 1: don't know why they have it on the list, because
Speaker 1: they even say it's a natural phenomenon. But hey, call
Speaker 1: me crazy, but these they had to get to fifteen
Speaker 1: on that list because nobody believes the top fourteen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But the spriots aren't going to kill you at least. No,
Speaker 1: they don't do anything. They don't interact, They just float
Speaker 1: up to the air. Number seven is the dark one,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of where things start to get interesting.
Speaker 1: You have a point oh zero zero three point zero
Speaker 1: three percent chance of seeing this thing? Three percent chance, yes,
Speaker 1: three three? Yet what Amy saying? Yeah, I'm bad at that.
Speaker 1: So I mean the odds of seeing the Dark One,
Speaker 1: A bet. It's still better than winning the lottery. They are,
Speaker 1: But you know, it's interesting that the odds of seeing
Speaker 1: it are so low. But it has been reported. The
Speaker 1: sightings of the Dark One have been reported by both
Speaker 1: the previous owners of the ranch and a lot of
Speaker 1: the investigators that go out there. So it's it's just
Speaker 1: weird that there are like, actually so many reports of
Speaker 1: this thing. When they're like, but it's really really rare
Speaker 1: that you might see it. Anyway, it might be that
Speaker 1: they just the percentage is they just pulled him out
Speaker 1: of thin air and it's just kind of a joke. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's possible. I think that would require having a sense
Speaker 1: of humor about the whole thing, which I don't think
Speaker 1: they do. I went out to the website and I
Speaker 1: coached brows, didn't listen to a bunch of different stuff,
Speaker 1: but I didn't actually thoroughly investigate it from from top
Speaker 1: to bottom. I didn't look at every knick and cranny
Speaker 1: at the website, yeah, it's fair, nor should you have Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So he's a The phenomenon is like a vision basically,
Speaker 1: or you see a man standing alone and he appears
Speaker 1: to be dressed as a primitive Native American, but also
Speaker 1: maybe like a native Southern American, like an Aztec or
Speaker 1: Pueblo or Central American sort of thing. He doesn't speak,
Speaker 1: and it kind of appears that he's like he's just
Speaker 1: experiencing a time slip, because we've talked about what time
Speaker 1: slips are before, right, people know what time slips are
Speaker 1: when you're just existing in your own time and you
Speaker 1: slip into a different time for a second and then
Speaker 1: slip back into your own time. It's not that this
Speaker 1: guy is not physically in this world, then, No, he's not.
Speaker 1: He's seen through a portal and he his surroundings are
Speaker 1: visibly different than the surroundings that you view him in.
Speaker 1: It's like seeing him through a window. Yeah, and he's
Speaker 1: always surprised that he's there and surprised that you're there.
Speaker 1: He doesn't speak, and there's some theory that he was
Speaker 1: maybe the person who opened the first portal on the
Speaker 1: land and he's like trapped there, which is what keeps
Speaker 1: the portal alive. He's just seen for a minute or two. Um,
Speaker 1: And like I said, the environment's different around him than
Speaker 1: where you are, Like if you're standing in the forest,
Speaker 1: it's like he's standing in a desert sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's that pronounced, but I now
Speaker 1: know where the entire concept of haven came from. Yeah,
Speaker 1: another anomaly. This is Joe's favorite. Yeah, likely to see
Speaker 1: the bulletproof wolf. And this bulletproof wolf appears to be
Speaker 1: almost a like dire wolf size, really large and imposing
Speaker 1: and of course black actually a naturally large and that's
Speaker 1: what they say, unnaturally large. The owners of the ranch
Speaker 1: feel that it's a physical manifestation of whatever quote whatever
Speaker 1: intelligence is on the ranch unquote, And it sounds like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of intelligences on the ranch. So I
Speaker 1: don't know which intelligence we're talking about, like if it's
Speaker 1: the native component or the alien component or the whole
Speaker 1: ranch was built on top of an Indian burial ground.
Speaker 1: Absolutely was, all of Utah was built over Indian burial ground.
Speaker 1: So to be fair, here, apparently it looks like a
Speaker 1: normal wolf but is bigger, but quote doesn't act like
Speaker 1: one unquote Joe, I just heard the story, you know
Speaker 1: that that it was like right after they moved into
Speaker 1: the ranch, the Shermans, Yeah, the Sherman's. Yeah, Terry and
Speaker 1: Gwen Sherman moved in and then this wolf shows up,
Speaker 1: but he's not being aggressive or anything like that, but
Speaker 1: comes over to them and sort of like says high
Speaker 1: and then goes over and try and started trying to
Speaker 1: like like pull a calf out of a pan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so they got a gun and they shot it
Speaker 1: and it just didn't phase it at all. And they
Speaker 1: shot it again and something like some guy got his
Speaker 1: high powered thirty six and shot it and that took
Speaker 1: a little bit of patch of fur off of it,
Speaker 1: but other than that, didn't face it at all. So
Speaker 1: I shot it like four times, Yeah, and then it
Speaker 1: just like wandered away. It could be. It could also
Speaker 1: be it's not bulletproof and they were shooting at it
Speaker 1: and they were missing. Yeah, there's always that sounds no, No,
Speaker 1: there's a good, guys, good never missed. Flash drones are
Speaker 1: number two on the list. Um, there's a one in
Speaker 1: four chance that you'll see a flash drone if you
Speaker 1: visit Skinwalker Ranch. Oh, I thought this was a rave thing.
Speaker 1: It's just a light. I mean, really, it's just delight. Apparently, however,
Speaker 1: they have intelligence behind them that exactly they are curious.
Speaker 1: They're described as curious. Yeah, that they'll like approach humans
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't totally no, And
Speaker 1: actually on the website, this is the anomaly that's written
Speaker 1: about the most. But apparently they can mess with the
Speaker 1: electronics these lights, specifically the electronics of the house. Um,
Speaker 1: they hover silently and they they, like I said, they're
Speaker 1: kind of curious, and apparently they will approach people. And
Speaker 1: they are influenced by meditation, so if you meditate near them,
Speaker 1: they'll react in a way. That's one more reason not
Speaker 1: to meditate. You got to close your eyes to meditate, right,
Speaker 1: I'm not closing my eyes around those things. And because
Speaker 1: I can't leave out the most frequently cited thing, Um,
Speaker 1: we have the spotlight. You have a forty six percent
Speaker 1: chance of seeing this. I'm gonna go ahead and briefly
Speaker 1: mention the fact that there is not a single phenomenon
Speaker 1: on the list that you are more than likely to
Speaker 1: see at any given time. Some nice possible deniability there
Speaker 1: Exactly if you go out there and have a look
Speaker 1: around there. I don't know, flip of a coin, you
Speaker 1: got a bad night, sorry, man. Yeah, it's like a motorcycle.
Speaker 1: The spotlight apparently it's like a motorcycle driving anywhere between
Speaker 1: ten and forty miles per hour, which is like actually
Speaker 1: huge variants, but okay, about eight feet off the ground. Serious, yeah, serious, black,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. Yeah, and the spot I can read minds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently it can read minds sometimes, but not always. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it has a tailight, sometimes it doesn't, but it can
Speaker 1: read a red light very specific, very specific, yeah, sometimes,
Speaker 1: but not always sometimes. So yeah, you guys want to
Speaker 1: talk about which one of those do you like? What's
Speaker 1: your favorite? None of them? Let's talk about all of them.
Speaker 1: So Skinwalker Ranch is near off Fort You Shane, thank you,
Speaker 1: which is like forty or fifty miles from the border
Speaker 1: of Colorado. I'm right about that. Yeah, that's up in
Speaker 1: that It's it's that weird northeastern notch of the stage. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's at Fort Chane. It's a little a little
Speaker 1: white spot in the road about six people, I think
Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, and the ranch is just south of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and as far as we can tell on Google Maps. Um,
Speaker 1: even though this ranch isn't actually you have to like
Speaker 1: kind of guess where when you search the the address
Speaker 1: of the ranch house, it's like that place doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: If I found I think one of the websites, it
Speaker 1: might be when you gave us where I found it
Speaker 1: had the coordinates. Yeah, and if you put in the cordinates.
Speaker 1: The only thing that I ever found that mentions skin
Speaker 1: Walker Ranch is a photo that somebody put up that's
Speaker 1: titled skin Walker Ranch Entrance. That's the only way you
Speaker 1: find it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went and looked
Speaker 1: on Google Maps and then I just called it. I
Speaker 1: think it's Pounce, Uinta County. I called their assessor's office
Speaker 1: and got the guy to look on to look at
Speaker 1: the plat map for the area and also look at
Speaker 1: Google and he gave me the parcel number for that
Speaker 1: that particular spot and that's and I was able to
Speaker 1: look it up and that is indeed owned by Big
Speaker 1: A Little Utah LLC. This guy us phone, Yeah, calling
Speaker 1: the third time in three months, used to phone like
Speaker 1: it if I can't find it on Google, it does
Speaker 1: not exist in the world. Is here? Somebody? I could
Speaker 1: have just texted yeah. As an aside. When I had
Speaker 1: this this guy from the county on the phone, I said, hey,
Speaker 1: you know I do a podcast. And I said, if
Speaker 1: you heard of the skin Walker rash and he goes,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and and you know, I said, so apparently
Speaker 1: lots of people have seen all kinds of strange things.
Speaker 1: He says, yeah, that's what I hear, and it's I
Speaker 1: And I said, I said, well, have you ever seen anything?
Speaker 1: And he said now, I said, do you know anybody
Speaker 1: who's ever seen anything? He said no. And I said,
Speaker 1: do you know anybody who knows anybody who's ever seen anything?
Speaker 1: He said no, Yeah, which is actually really good information
Speaker 1: because when you read about this online, you'll hear like
Speaker 1: this county, there's like so much phenomenon, like everybody in
Speaker 1: the county has seen something. You will literally read like
Speaker 1: almost verbade him that thing. You know, It's like it's
Speaker 1: such a weird place that everybody who lives in that
Speaker 1: town has seen. And obviously that's not true. No, it's not.
Speaker 1: I am I also call it. It's a local newspaper
Speaker 1: in Vernal, Utah, which is a town about I don't know.
Speaker 1: Tanner Tanner, fifteen miles northeast of Fort Duche. They have
Speaker 1: a little newspaper they're called the Vernal Express, and so
Speaker 1: I got on their website and I called one of
Speaker 1: the reporters, a woman named Liberty Best. Hadn't chat with her,
Speaker 1: and I said, well, about the skin Walker ranch thing
Speaker 1: you've heard? And she said, oh yeah. Asked her the
Speaker 1: same set of questions I asked the guy at the
Speaker 1: county and there was always no. She doesn't know anybody
Speaker 1: who knows anybody's seen anything. And I asked her if
Speaker 1: she'd ever talked to the shermans. She'd never had, and
Speaker 1: then uh, I called the Uinta County I think it's
Speaker 1: Uintah County slightly mispronounced it, sorry, Sheriff's office and talked
Speaker 1: to somebody there because I wanted to find out or
Speaker 1: there are lots of reports of UFOs or mutilated cattle.
Speaker 1: Not really. Now, first I talked to you is like
Speaker 1: she was really she was very nice, and she said
Speaker 1: she'd never seen anything. She said her parents did see
Speaker 1: some weird stuff years ago, but she was she didn't
Speaker 1: say exactly what it was. That's that's about it. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's not exactly a comprehensive survey of the
Speaker 1: people of the area. But it's not not I mean,
Speaker 1: if there's only like a thousand people who live in
Speaker 1: the area, right, I mean, you think somebody would know somebody.
Speaker 1: Somebody should one of those three people should know somebody
Speaker 1: who knows somebody who you know. And I guess if
Speaker 1: the woman's mom and dad saw something like then okay,
Speaker 1: there's a sample there. But but you know, I've seen
Speaker 1: weird things in life. Yeah, And if there's this amount,
Speaker 1: if there's if as reported as much stuff is happening
Speaker 1: as is reported, people they should be seeing stuff left
Speaker 1: and right. I mean realistically absolutely, and it's it. And
Speaker 1: and there's lots of surrounding properties near the ranch were
Speaker 1: with houses on them, people who living there, and you know,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's not as if it's desolate. No, there's
Speaker 1: plenty of plenty of people living in the area. Also,
Speaker 1: UM as a fun little note to remind everyone, UM,
Speaker 1: phenomenal like this doesn't necessarily respect parcel boundaries, right. No,
Speaker 1: I mean that's something that I think people like, it's
Speaker 1: very easy to get swept up and forgetting like all
Speaker 1: this stuff is happening on this ranch, but like, why
Speaker 1: is it not happening around the ranch to you? There's
Speaker 1: no good reasons. No, there's no spillover. It's happening in
Speaker 1: these four acres alone. Right back to debunking some of
Speaker 1: these things, as if Joe's four calls three calls weren't enough,
Speaker 1: they're not conclusive. I did, I did. Google's going to
Speaker 1: charge us for those phone calls. By the way, long distance,
Speaker 1: I know. Um, I did do a search because you know,
Speaker 1: my first inclination whenever we hear UFO like weird light
Speaker 1: stuff like that, is like, well, obviously there must be
Speaker 1: an air force space around there, right, there's actually not
Speaker 1: suspiciously barren of any military installation suspicious it is. No,
Speaker 1: it's like equidistant between like four different ones, So that
Speaker 1: in itself maybe that's suspicious. I don't know it is,
Speaker 1: because it is it's almost exactly in the middle between
Speaker 1: Camp Williams and the F. E. Warren Air Force Base
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, like almost equidistant. That's not I think it's
Speaker 1: closer to Camp Williams myself, but it's, like I said,
Speaker 1: almost equalistant. Um, so maybe they've been like testing back
Speaker 1: and forth. I don't know, special special like reverse engineered
Speaker 1: like you know, American made flying saucers that. Yeah, although
Speaker 1: I will take this moment to mention we've mentioned briefly
Speaker 1: that Terry and Gwen Sherman were the owners of this
Speaker 1: property from the early nineties until they bought it and
Speaker 1: I think sold it. Yeah, they were only like two
Speaker 1: or three years, two or three years. And so in
Speaker 1: this this guy Bigelow, Robert Bigelow, he's the millionaire owner
Speaker 1: of Billionaire bill excuse me, billionaire owner of Budget Suites
Speaker 1: of America UM and also the founder of Bigelow Aerospace UM.
Speaker 1: He owns almost the entirety of Skinwalker Ranch. Now, the
Speaker 1: whole thing. He owned the whole thing. Yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: there was like a little bit that he didn't own.
Speaker 1: There's like a very small acreage. But no, no, I
Speaker 1: mean I trust you on this stuff, and I trust myself.
Speaker 1: You can actually search county the candy assession site by
Speaker 1: by owner name, and I searched for the Shermans, and
Speaker 1: the only parcel that they own is in Jensen, Utah.
Speaker 1: So I all seven parcels that are are the ranch
Speaker 1: are owned by Bige Little Utah LLC. Okay, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I guess it's a little interesting because you may have
Speaker 1: missed the fact that I said that he is the
Speaker 1: founder of Bigelow Airspace, Aerospace excuse me aerospace. He's got
Speaker 1: what he's putting a hotel into space? Is that what?
Speaker 1: It's kind of a cool idea. It's a big inflatable structure.
Speaker 1: They're gonna like put it up into orbit and then
Speaker 1: they're gonna have one of those little those little CEO
Speaker 1: two cart and that's going to blow the whole thing up.
Speaker 1: But I mean, but well, this is like fun discussion.
Speaker 1: But he has actually put two things into space, all right,
Speaker 1: He's got two of them, and he's got two things
Speaker 1: in space. Who's been up there for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: So maybe he was actually using the ranches testing and
Speaker 1: he just wasn't telling anybody could be they do? They
Speaker 1: do seem a total d move right there. Oh yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're getting off traffic and I'm sorry you guys,
Speaker 1: oh it. Uh So, the the things like slugs, I
Speaker 1: think we can dismiss that. I can't find any information
Speaker 1: about what they look like, how often we see these things,
Speaker 1: how we even know about them. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: go ahead and dismiss that phenomenon. We can defend ourselves
Speaker 1: from them very easily, salt, just carrying a shaker of salt.
Speaker 1: When I think either their slugs or their leeches, they
Speaker 1: might just be big er, or they're just totally made up.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's some sort of slug this native to Utah
Speaker 1: that's the size of your arm. Yeah, maybe they're like
Speaker 1: the Mongols something. Yeah. Yeah. The firefly sprites and the
Speaker 1: flash strones I think are probably the same thing. And
Speaker 1: I think that they are a thing that we've actually
Speaker 1: I think we talked about this before briefly in another episode.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty well known phenomenon called will of the Wisps.
Speaker 1: I think we talked about it in the mom Talk. No, no,
Speaker 1: well you know, well, yeah, we we talked about this earlier.
Speaker 1: And not trying to remember, I thought that it was
Speaker 1: either the who put Bella in the witch Elm or
Speaker 1: the other one that I think it might have been
Speaker 1: was the Forest. Yeah, I can I can't remember, because
Speaker 1: I swear you it was an episode that you did.
Speaker 1: I did actually go through. I can't listen to all
Speaker 1: of our episodes. I actually couldn't even go through all
Speaker 1: of ouring that are out right now. You don't have
Speaker 1: time for that weird, right, But I do remember at
Speaker 1: one point we talked about this natural phenomena with the
Speaker 1: like lights that shoot out of the water swamp gas
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, so scientists, there's no swamps
Speaker 1: near the ranch, right, No, but it's not only seen
Speaker 1: around swamps. It's seen around any kind of body of water,
Speaker 1: and not even exclusively around bodies of water, but anywhere
Speaker 1: where there might be gas releases. It is a naturally
Speaker 1: occurring phenomena. So like, yeah, so scientists starting sure what
Speaker 1: causes it, but they are sure that it's a natural phenomena,
Speaker 1: and we see it all over the place, all over
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, there's there's other phenomena to like, floating
Speaker 1: lights are not uncommon, like the Marfa lights in Texas, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: and those are the those have pretty much been proven
Speaker 1: to just be car headlights passing through what's called a
Speaker 1: Fata Morgana mirage, which is what's called a superior mirage
Speaker 1: because it makes things on the on the on the
Speaker 1: ground appear to be up in the air, to be
Speaker 1: higher than that. Well, that's the same thing that there's
Speaker 1: that that was it's currently going around on the day
Speaker 1: we're recording. This will be several weeks past. But there
Speaker 1: is the floating Chinese skyscrapers. Have you guys seen this.
Speaker 1: There's clouds in the sky and there are skyscrapers in
Speaker 1: the clouds, and it's the exact same phenomenon that's causing that.
Speaker 1: And actually, I guess we bring up at this point
Speaker 1: likely it's the exact same phenomenon that's causing a motorcycle
Speaker 1: to be eight ft feet in the air. Entirely possible
Speaker 1: to Yeah, but now there are a lot of different
Speaker 1: totally approvable natural phenomenon that these lights could be, including fireflies.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they knew either, but it could
Speaker 1: be a thing or maybe somebody listening from applies on fire.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's cruel. The bulletproof wolf, I'm nine point nine
Speaker 1: five sure it's just a real wolf. Joe and I
Speaker 1: were talking about this before you got here today. Is
Speaker 1: the descriptions of the size of this wolf. One of
Speaker 1: the things that cracked me up is I think it's
Speaker 1: um it was the wife said that they saw the
Speaker 1: wolf and it was the size of her car, and
Speaker 1: she had it. She was driving a Chevy Chevette. Guess
Speaker 1: who owned a Chevy Chavette at one time. This kid
Speaker 1: right here, and I can tell you that a Chevy Shevette.
Speaker 1: I'm normal, light whatever, and it's about mid chest height
Speaker 1: on me. Been a own really big dogs like great
Speaker 1: Danes and whatnot, and pretty they're you know, a little
Speaker 1: is that? Well? One of the things I wanted to
Speaker 1: say is that I have actually had the pleasure of
Speaker 1: interacting with real live wolves in in real life, and
Speaker 1: I think that people don't realize how stink and big
Speaker 1: they are, you know, especially if you're a rancher and
Speaker 1: you've seen them in the distance or you just like
Speaker 1: you think they're just like like the size of a
Speaker 1: lab or something like that. Those things are giant. Their
Speaker 1: paws are as big as my hand. Like they are big.
Speaker 1: But they're not, no, certainly not, but they are big.
Speaker 1: And I can imagine that if you were suddenly approached
Speaker 1: by a big dog, you know, even if it wasn't
Speaker 1: that big, your mind is going to go, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's a huge thing, right, You're going to inflate that
Speaker 1: it's bigger, especially if it's acting a way that you're
Speaker 1: not used to it acting. And I also am not,
Speaker 1: I just am not willing to say that it's like
Speaker 1: so unusual. I'm not willing to say that, like a
Speaker 1: wolf is always going to walk up to you. But
Speaker 1: if you are in a ranch and that wolf and
Speaker 1: its family is living on that ranch, that's its territory.
Speaker 1: And also it hasn't been threatened the ranch was it
Speaker 1: was a band at least like for like seven years,
Speaker 1: And you're not like yelling at it and trying to
Speaker 1: get it away. It's not It's probably not. I I
Speaker 1: am not willing to say it like saddled up to
Speaker 1: them and like was friendly. But for a wild animal,
Speaker 1: it may have been friendly. I don't have a hard
Speaker 1: time believing that it's a real wolf, like said they,
Speaker 1: And it happened right after they moved in, and so
Speaker 1: the wolf would probably have had the run of the
Speaker 1: place for years and now suddenly they show up and
Speaker 1: it's curious about them and everything. But but as far
Speaker 1: as as far as the shooting goes, I never I
Speaker 1: don't even know how well documented the shooting was, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't One of the things they talk a lot
Speaker 1: about with this wolf is that they say, like wasn't aggressive,
Speaker 1: but it's it'll stare at you with like really intimidating stare,
Speaker 1: which is not uncommon for an alpha wolf to do.
Speaker 1: If it's big and you're not like actively threatening it,
Speaker 1: it'll look at you like it's angry at you, but
Speaker 1: it's not going to attack you unless you attack it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The one thing I think one bit of advice is
Speaker 1: if the alpha wolf is staring at you, don't stare
Speaker 1: them down. Back away, like be smart about it. But
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that the behavior that's described for this
Speaker 1: bulletproof wolf, I just I have a really hard time
Speaker 1: thinking it's anything other than just a wolf. And one
Speaker 1: of the other things that I think is really interesting,
Speaker 1: actually is that one of the other phenomena they describe
Speaker 1: a lot is these things called the controllers, which just
Speaker 1: sounds like two men talking back and forth. And have
Speaker 1: you guys ever heard wolves howl in the distance, not
Speaker 1: the like of close ones, but far away when it's
Speaker 1: it gets broken up, and it's not the high pitch one,
Speaker 1: the lower pitch one. I'm talking about, kind of like
Speaker 1: two dudes talking in the distance. Yeah, you know, it's
Speaker 1: really really cool to hear two's coyotes off of the
Speaker 1: distance at night. Yeah. Actually, I want to talk about coyotes.
Speaker 1: Can we before we get to the coyote thing, we're
Speaker 1: talking about wolvemore, there's one thing about this. They call
Speaker 1: it the dire wolf, right, the dire wolf. The giant
Speaker 1: is going to call it something else, the giant wolf.
Speaker 1: Here's the one thing that if this wolf is that big,
Speaker 1: there's one thing that I would imagine people would have
Speaker 1: noticed that is never talked about. And I know I've
Speaker 1: brought us back to this subject before scat if a
Speaker 1: dog is this an animal the size of the car
Speaker 1: is gonna make large amounts of excrement there. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's gonna be Maybe that's what's causing
Speaker 1: the lights. The point is, you would think that there
Speaker 1: would be reports of these random giant turds on the
Speaker 1: red ranches always have lots of turds on them already,
Speaker 1: which is true. But that was the one thing. I
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I was like, you think
Speaker 1: that they would have found, I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: other things. While we're on the subject of wolves and
Speaker 1: like cattle, because the Shermans were ranchers and they bought
Speaker 1: the land to have their cow ranch on, right, raised
Speaker 1: their cattle, and then there were all these reports of
Speaker 1: like cattle are getting mutilated, okay, or wolves are getting them.
Speaker 1: So I looked up into the wolf populations and you know,
Speaker 1: in the eighties and then into the nineties, there was
Speaker 1: these big pushes for re established re establishing packs because
Speaker 1: you know, humans that hunted them nearly into most of
Speaker 1: them into extend ancient there actually wasn't that large of
Speaker 1: a wolf population in the country in general, So this
Speaker 1: area to have that would be extremely unusual. Even today,
Speaker 1: where the packs are bigger than they've been in eighty
Speaker 1: or ninety years, that would still be a very strange
Speaker 1: concentration because those animals are very nomadic. They are though
Speaker 1: the huge range they absolutely do. That's true. Um, there's
Speaker 1: that nice little stretch up through Utah, up kind of
Speaker 1: through the rest of the country Canada, would it it's
Speaker 1: not like solidly wooded. But the thing that didn't really
Speaker 1: start happening until the late nineties early two thousand's was
Speaker 1: actual wolf tracking. Like they pretty much tried to round
Speaker 1: up every single alpha male and female and tag them.
Speaker 1: Then they like put collars on them so they can
Speaker 1: track them. That's where we get our seven. For instance,
Speaker 1: the wolf that the old in Oregon, but we didn't
Speaker 1: never start tracking that. So it's While it is unlikely
Speaker 1: that there was a quote unquote concentration, it's not bizarre
Speaker 1: to think there was a small pack or even just
Speaker 1: an alpha right with no mate, because they can go
Speaker 1: a long time without having mates. That just was undocumented. Again.
Speaker 1: But my problem is is that they range over huge areas.
Speaker 1: This story implies that it lived on this half mile
Speaker 1: square chunk of ground. I don't know for a fair
Speaker 1: amount of time in the course of it that it
Speaker 1: like spent some time there. Yeah. Absolutely, I don't know
Speaker 1: that it like well, but but I'm just saying it.
Speaker 1: It implies that it was very, very localized, when that's
Speaker 1: not the way those creatures were. On the same page
Speaker 1: sighting rate, It's possible that you only see it of
Speaker 1: the year, I mean, a different wolf every time too.
Speaker 1: It's also possible a lot of these cattle desks are
Speaker 1: being caused by coyotes and stuff like that. Yeah, are
Speaker 1: we gonna talk about that? Yeah? Do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about it now? I think we should. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: the cattle death. You have a lot of stuff you
Speaker 1: want to talk about, Well, I do because one of
Speaker 1: the things that I you see this in rural UFO
Speaker 1: stories and see a lot in this one is the
Speaker 1: cattle mutilation. Yeah, and there's a number that that's thrown
Speaker 1: around with Terry Sherman's heard. Well, yeah, that's we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about that a bit. But the point is people say, well,
Speaker 1: and it was a half hour ago I saw that cow,
Speaker 1: and now it's dead and completely mutilated. Almost Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I can't remember what kind of cow
Speaker 1: he had. But it seems to me there's spotted cows,
Speaker 1: and there's uniform color cows, and it seems like his
Speaker 1: cattle were uniform colored. So that's really hard for me
Speaker 1: to buy because from a disc didn't you can't read
Speaker 1: their tag, so you don't know if it's the same cow. Oh,
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. I was confused about that
Speaker 1: train of thought for a second. What you're saying is that,
Speaker 1: like you wouldn't be able to tell from a distance
Speaker 1: what cow he was. Was that cow seventy five or
Speaker 1: was that cow fifth? You don't know from a distance,
Speaker 1: you know, to read the tag. I mean those tags big,
Speaker 1: But I see what you're saying. I was just confused
Speaker 1: about why it mattered what kind of cow. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but people say I saw the cow half an hour
Speaker 1: ago and now it's completely mutilated. There's no blood. Well,
Speaker 1: a Utah is very cold in the winter, and so
Speaker 1: the blood isn't gonna blow everywhere when a cow dies,
Speaker 1: unless you know, you get shot. The other thing is,
Speaker 1: if you look up what kind of natural predators in
Speaker 1: the area. Well, there's there's big cats and there's wolves. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: those guys are gonna do huge amounts of damage to
Speaker 1: an animal when they get ahold of it. But if
Speaker 1: something dies and smaller things get to it, like coyotes, raccoons, possums, skunks,
Speaker 1: they know an easy meal and that's called a dead animal.
Speaker 1: And what do they go for. They go for the
Speaker 1: softest tissue and what is Unfortunately, it's gonna be the anus,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the genitals, it's gonna be the utter,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the lips or the mouth, and the
Speaker 1: eyes and sometimes maybe the ears, which are all the
Speaker 1: areas that you always here called out as these strange
Speaker 1: areas that were chrysturgically removed. But if you look at
Speaker 1: all these animals, they have very small, sharp teeth and
Speaker 1: they cut in kind of a clean line because they
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a terrible thing to imagine, but
Speaker 1: start at the back and burrow your way in. You're
Speaker 1: going to leave a pretty clean hole as you work
Speaker 1: your way through the soft tissue because you're not gonna
Speaker 1: be able to eat the tougher tissue easily. I just
Speaker 1: I really would like to cancel these animals. Just say
Speaker 1: that if you take the trouble to go through the
Speaker 1: cow hide on the hodges of the thing, and there's
Speaker 1: some really awesome steaks there, it's much better. You're gross,
Speaker 1: but that's the soft and easy meal there. There are also,
Speaker 1: I guess it's worth mentioning, um, a fair amount of
Speaker 1: venomous snakes in Utah. Yeah, and it wouldn't be insane
Speaker 1: to think, well, they didn't mean maybe they didn't die
Speaker 1: have natural car causes. Maybe that cow was dumb and
Speaker 1: stepped on that snake and it got bit with venom
Speaker 1: and and cows are stupid. Cows run into things that
Speaker 1: are solid. I don't know if you've ever seen a
Speaker 1: cow run headlong into a salt like a flat wall.
Speaker 1: Not you can see through slats. I'm talking like brick
Speaker 1: wall stone. They'll just head on, run right into it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of too bad. I've heard that the
Speaker 1: original wild cows were a lot smarter, but we've humans
Speaker 1: are pretty much bread everything we've done that. They are
Speaker 1: completely good at making things dumb. Yeah we are. So
Speaker 1: did you have more that you want to talk about
Speaker 1: with that? Well? No, well we'll talk. We're going to
Speaker 1: talk about it's Terry, right, We're gonna talk about Terry
Speaker 1: later on a little bit more, I believe. Yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: save it till then. Okay, great, Okay, so we're done
Speaker 1: talking about the wolf, okay, because we are still talking
Speaker 1: about animals um and have have either of you ever
Speaker 1: heard a fox scream? Yeah? Have ever heard of fox
Speaker 1: make the scared noise? Yeah? They call it Wixen's scream,
Speaker 1: the vixens scream. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1: I've never heard it a little. It might be that
Speaker 1: I've heard it and I just thought it was even
Speaker 1: being screaming. I'm gonna pause real quick and we'll listen
Speaker 1: to it. So hold on everybody for a second. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back now. Joe's heard it too. If you haven't
Speaker 1: heard it, go out and like just google fox screaming,
Speaker 1: you'll hear it. They've found a whole lot like human screaming.
Speaker 1: And if I don't know if you've heard the pups
Speaker 1: making that noise, but they sound like babies, Like they
Speaker 1: sound like babies crying, not like when when when, but
Speaker 1: like like a babysit screaming. Yeah, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: else sounds like babies crying? Fishers, monkeys, peacocks, bobcats, a
Speaker 1: whole mess of other animals. Granted on that list, most
Speaker 1: of those animals don't exist in Utah. I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I'm going to call them guys,
Speaker 1: but peacocks do actually really really sound like babies crying.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I know, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of places in America where people have peacocks on
Speaker 1: their farms, So I don't know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: they are if there are any in that area or not.
Speaker 1: There's really no way to know except for to go there,
Speaker 1: or I guess Joe could call them again or something,
Speaker 1: you know, anybody. Fishers are all there in North America,
Speaker 1: but they're kind of more like our area. And then
Speaker 1: in the Northeast and in Canada, bobcats. They definitely bobcats
Speaker 1: down there, though, So for me, I would it would
Speaker 1: not be a hard stretch to hear fox like screaming
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and mistake that for
Speaker 1: a baby crying. And then, as we know, people don't
Speaker 1: usually recover from like seeing the babies, so it's pretty
Speaker 1: easy for somebody to say, like, oh, do you hear
Speaker 1: that baby crying? Yeah, don't ever, this is what happens.
Speaker 1: So so the the water babies are foxes stressed up
Speaker 1: in this little suits and making noise, isn't then when
Speaker 1: you go down there to pull them out, they grab
Speaker 1: you when they pull you under and they tear your
Speaker 1: throat out. Yeah, or they're just foxes making noises and
Speaker 1: somebody's elaborated on somebody stories, Yeah that baby is going
Speaker 1: to murder you. Yeah. The spotlight, as we kind of
Speaker 1: talked about, there's cosh. Joe just said what the phenomenal was,
Speaker 1: and I can't even what the the mirages, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: mirage thing mirages. Yeah, so I think that's totally possible.
Speaker 1: It's also possible like low flying airplanes, you know. I also,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the only things that really falls
Speaker 1: the category are like the portal and the sentient missed.
Speaker 1: I'm willing to say the mist is probably just some
Speaker 1: freaking missed. I think you're both. The portal I don't
Speaker 1: know about. I don't think that's a real thing. I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody's seen it. I think somebody played the
Speaker 1: game portal and was like, oh, that's a good idea
Speaker 1: brown bottle visions or like the mushrooms that grow on
Speaker 1: cattle cow pies. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, people never
Speaker 1: eat mushrooms. I think I've given you this warning before.
Speaker 1: It's just just don't do it. Do it in the
Speaker 1: safety of your own home with a babysitter, and then
Speaker 1: don't start telling people about stuff. No, just just eat
Speaker 1: the mushrooms that are at the salad bar. Those ones
Speaker 1: are deemed safe. All the other ones stay away from him.
Speaker 1: Just don't do it. I don't think somebody hallucinated this stuff.
Speaker 1: I think that somebody ticked what was probably someone at
Speaker 1: the word. I'm thinking aboutpocryphal story that was printed in
Speaker 1: the mid nineties in the Desertrette News and then decided
Speaker 1: I'm going to grasp so much, so much crap onto this.
Speaker 1: I'm going to make up so much outrageous stuff and
Speaker 1: just see what I can get away with, Just see
Speaker 1: how much outrageous stuff I can actually, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I will do that. And then the last is the
Speaker 1: dark one. I kind of fall either side of this.
Speaker 1: Either somebody totally made it up or I mean, they
Speaker 1: are really close to the reservation right next door. It's
Speaker 1: possible that somebody actually saw an actual Native American man
Speaker 1: and was just like, well, that's weird. I wonder how
Speaker 1: I can twist this into a paranormal story. I think
Speaker 1: I just keep thinking of that. Did you guys watch
Speaker 1: the new episodes of Arrested Development the ones on Netflix. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a part where one of the characters like thinks
Speaker 1: he sees a vision, but it's like kind of obscured
Speaker 1: by the sun, and it's like just a guy in
Speaker 1: like a peacock suit, just being a jerk. Like that's
Speaker 1: where I always go to with things like this is like,
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know what the situation was. Was
Speaker 1: the sun in your eyes where you like drunk, what's
Speaker 1: going on there? It happens, ye, So, but I guess
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely willing to say it's all made up.
Speaker 1: I guess the original owners of the land and house.
Speaker 1: You'll see either they like abandoned the property for a
Speaker 1: really really really long time, or they die and then
Speaker 1: abandoned for a couple of years before the Shermans bought it.
Speaker 1: So either of those, I, as with all things real estate,
Speaker 1: I tend to trust Joe, given that he's called for
Speaker 1: like actual sources and stuff like that. But the Shermans,
Speaker 1: Gwen and Terry, you'll see their names be almost everything
Speaker 1: under the sun something Sherman's John Joe, Ry Gorman, Terry Gilman. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's Terry and Gwen Sherman. Those are the actual names
Speaker 1: of the actual owners of the property. They bought the
Speaker 1: house and the property because Terry's cattle business was kind
Speaker 1: of taking off. Can I ask you a question from
Speaker 1: this point forward, what you're about to go over or
Speaker 1: the Sherman's the source? Or is what is Mr Walker
Speaker 1: the guy who did all the writing? Skinner? Damn? It
Speaker 1: is he the source of all of this? As far
Speaker 1: as I can tell, they are the source of all
Speaker 1: of it. It's purported that they reported this, so he
Speaker 1: is the one who provided in writing as their voice.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you got that from them, or
Speaker 1: if you got it from subsequent people, because obviously they
Speaker 1: left to night. I just want to ask, because I
Speaker 1: I just this all is so amazing. Yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put that glossy coat on it. I wanted to know
Speaker 1: where it came from. Well, it's so the It is
Speaker 1: said that they reported all this stuff. Whether that's true
Speaker 1: or not, I don't know, but we'll ever know. I
Speaker 1: know that I know that they reported at least cattle
Speaker 1: mutilations and a few other odd things happening. They reported
Speaker 1: seeing lights, they reported seeing UFOs actually not just lights
Speaker 1: but actual actual spaceship. And the reason they gave for
Speaker 1: leaving the house was that they just couldn't sleep well
Speaker 1: and that right, wasn't that I thought that was authenticated?
Speaker 1: Were things that were keeping them up at night and
Speaker 1: that they from the house And yeah, oh, I just
Speaker 1: heard that they had a hard time sleeping and when
Speaker 1: they finally did get to sleep, they would have nightmares,
Speaker 1: and then like the fantastical code of that was like
Speaker 1: shared nightmares. Yeah, but I don't believe that. I do
Speaker 1: believe that probably they mean it's totally legit to say
Speaker 1: like possibly they were, but also possibly some billionaire came
Speaker 1: and was like, here's a bunch of money for They
Speaker 1: were like, I know problem, Yeah, I think that business
Speaker 1: is doing really bad. Take all that money. Well exactly,
Speaker 1: and I think the I think they got out of
Speaker 1: the cattle business because the parcel that they moved to
Speaker 1: is there was only three quarter acres. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: not really not not enough to do anything like that.
Speaker 1: And so they probably just sold off the remaining cattle
Speaker 1: that hadn't been you know, hadn't been invistrated by aliens,
Speaker 1: and that moved off to Jensen on the to their
Speaker 1: new smaller parcels. Yeah. So when reportedly from who knows where,
Speaker 1: when the Shermans bought the property, they got to the house,
Speaker 1: I guess they bought it sight unseen. I don't know
Speaker 1: why they didn't see this stuff. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: that's the case or not either. But by the way,
Speaker 1: we know where they moved from. It was in the area,
Speaker 1: I thought, Yeah, Gwand is actually from the area. She
Speaker 1: was from very close by. Terry was originally from Arizona,
Speaker 1: and he I saw allusions to the fact that he
Speaker 1: had he was in the cattle business before they moved there.
Speaker 1: But somebody. In the description that I read, it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: in his striving cattle business, which I would like, didn't
Speaker 1: understand what that meant. So wait, is this He worked
Speaker 1: on a ranch and had four cows of his own
Speaker 1: and decided he was going to branch out. Because I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys have ever heard this, but
Speaker 1: there's among my my dad's generation this idea of retiring
Speaker 1: and becoming the gentleman farmer or the gentleman rancher. Have
Speaker 1: you ever heard this? I'm going to I'm just going
Speaker 1: to get out of the race, and all I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do is live on the land and raise animals. And
Speaker 1: they'll call me path and they'll they'll call me whatever,
Speaker 1: and I'll sit on the porch and I will order
Speaker 1: my ranch minions around and they will do the work,
Speaker 1: and I will be brilliant at it. That's kind of
Speaker 1: what I got the idea this guy might have important.
Speaker 1: The report that I read was like very interesting. It
Speaker 1: was that he had a quote unquote striving cattle business.
Speaker 1: Again I don't understand what that means, but that he
Speaker 1: had some very unusual and like potentially lucrative cattle breeding
Speaker 1: that he had. I don't know what that means. That
Speaker 1: the deepest I ever have seen it gone into I think,
Speaker 1: I know, what do you know? IVF fertilization. IVF really
Speaker 1: was getting big in the nineties in all manner of
Speaker 1: livestock because the technology had finally come along far enough
Speaker 1: that it was cheap and viable. And I remember in
Speaker 1: the nineties suddenly they were talking about the fact that
Speaker 1: the bull was no longer going to exist because instead
Speaker 1: you had a cooler and that was where you got
Speaker 1: everything for for all your halfers. That's pretty handy. But
Speaker 1: you know, interestingly, speaking of that, according to one story
Speaker 1: that I read about the Sherman's um, they had four balls. Yes,
Speaker 1: I saw that to have you heard that story? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a great one. It's like one day they
Speaker 1: were they were headed off the town, they walked past
Speaker 1: this the shed would had these four bulls pinned up,
Speaker 1: and Terry said to Gwen and said, wow, you know,
Speaker 1: and they they had lost some cattle already. Says to Gwenna, says, well,
Speaker 1: sure nothing happens to our bulls, because I would really
Speaker 1: do us in. And the when they got back from town,
Speaker 1: they looked at the same pan and the bulls were gone.
Speaker 1: But guess where they found them a trailer. All four
Speaker 1: crammed into a trailer. Horse trailer, horse trailer. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: all four had been stuffed into trailer. That seems rather paranormal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stuffing four bulls into a trailer. So okay, So the
Speaker 1: house back to the house they bought again who knows,
Speaker 1: SI unseen maybe not um. But apparently when they arrived
Speaker 1: they found that there were dead bolts everywhere. So it's
Speaker 1: just like everywhere. And I've heard this, dude, I was
Speaker 1: just talking dead bolts. Are you just talking bolts? I
Speaker 1: think no. I think a bolt as in a sliding
Speaker 1: bolt lock, not a dead bult, like you have a
Speaker 1: key dead bolt in your door. Okay, I like bolts better.
Speaker 1: It makes more sense. Um. But apparently, like like everywhere,
Speaker 1: like on every single door, interior and exterior, including kitchen,
Speaker 1: cabinet doors and and everything like that. And also on
Speaker 1: both sides of the doors, not only were they trying
Speaker 1: to sometimes keep things out, but also sometimes they were
Speaker 1: trying to keep things in, which is where. And there's
Speaker 1: a thing about the big steaks. Oh yeah, the giant
Speaker 1: iron steaks that they found on either side of the
Speaker 1: house that we're connected to giant metal chains to the
Speaker 1: house they had, goes Er is a pet? Ghostbusters? Or
Speaker 1: where were the dogs from that movie? That's who they had. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I mean that's weird. If that was real, it's weird.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's real, but if it was, it
Speaker 1: was weird. Yeah. Well, get that that article that they
Speaker 1: were interviewed for. And again I don't know how to
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's pronounced desiree or desirette news
Speaker 1: but whatever, but that was a think in nineties six
Speaker 1: and they interviewed the Sherman's for that article, and they
Speaker 1: talked about all the weird stuff that was going on,
Speaker 1: and they also talked about when they bought the house
Speaker 1: and how they had to do a little bit of
Speaker 1: remodeling and renovating before they moved in. They didn't mention
Speaker 1: a word about any of that. No, although I don't
Speaker 1: know that I would. I don't know. But if you're
Speaker 1: talking about how weird your life is on this weird,
Speaker 1: weird ranch, when you're seeing weird phenomena and lights and
Speaker 1: UFOs and dead cattle and everything like that, you know,
Speaker 1: you would think you would bring up the fact that
Speaker 1: there were bolts, you know, everywhere in your house. So
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a weird thing. So I'm kind
Speaker 1: of so I think somebody might attack this one onto
Speaker 1: the mystery. Yeah, So, as we previously mentioned, UM Bigelow
Speaker 1: utah LLC does own the property now they bought and
Speaker 1: um publicly Bigelow utah LLC is known as the National
Speaker 1: Institute for Discovery Science. It's also owned by Mr Bigelow Um.
Speaker 1: And he bought it because he was very interested and
Speaker 1: still is, I guess, very interested in bringing science to
Speaker 1: the investigation of paranormal activity. Basically, he wants to prove
Speaker 1: scientifically that paranormal stuff happened. So he had heard about
Speaker 1: the stuff that was going on the ranch and thought,
Speaker 1: I will buy that for myself, thank you. And now
Speaker 1: he owns it and like four people I think are
Speaker 1: allowed really on Skinwalker Ranch. It's been like was basically
Speaker 1: shuttered at this point. Yeah, I think it is. Well,
Speaker 1: I just mean like there are investigators that he's hired
Speaker 1: for the NAW few are on site. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: have they installed cameras everywhere and they said, you know,
Speaker 1: night one of camera installation, they saw stuff, and I've
Speaker 1: seen pictures of this and I don't see anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but okay, I from what a little I've been able
Speaker 1: to find out about their findings, and apparently they were
Speaker 1: on that site for years with cameras and everything, and
Speaker 1: there were I guess there was still cattle left there.
Speaker 1: There's I think there's a caretaker living on the ranch,
Speaker 1: and so there was still there was more cattle desks,
Speaker 1: and also some some strange floating lights. And that's the
Speaker 1: only thing that those guys observed, and all those years
Speaker 1: of observation was those two things. All the other stuff
Speaker 1: they didn't see it. And they had cameras everywhere and
Speaker 1: people everywhere, Yeah they did. Yeah. And I just want
Speaker 1: to say one thing about the Sherman's too visit. So
Speaker 1: many strange things were happening. You would think that when
Speaker 1: you left the house to go out in the pasture,
Speaker 1: you would take a camera with you think you would
Speaker 1: think that, or maybe a video recorder, don't you think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the worst camera you own probably, yeah, because that's always yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I I agree, Yeah, I totally agree with that. There's
Speaker 1: also the matter of the utes or utes. How would
Speaker 1: you write I think utes? I think it's Utes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're the predominant tribe in the area. Um. And they
Speaker 1: apparently had identified roughly four hundred of this four hundred
Speaker 1: and four acres or whatever land as a no go
Speaker 1: zone for a really really long time generations generations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much for as long as they've been in the area. Reportedly,
Speaker 1: they refer to the area as the path of the
Speaker 1: skin Walkers and skin walkers I'm realizing right now we
Speaker 1: haven't actually said what skin walkers are. Yeah, I'm sorry, Steve.
Speaker 1: None of us. Skin walkers are shape shifters. Um. Some
Speaker 1: places you'll see them describe just powerful spirits, but really
Speaker 1: the original skin walkers are actually, um, do you have
Speaker 1: a you just took a breath, like you might be
Speaker 1: able to help me with this lushi. It's a Navajo word,
Speaker 1: which isn't for a Navajo, which I've actually heard that
Speaker 1: the Use don't actually have any legend of skin walkers,
Speaker 1: and that's actually from the like the Hopies or the naval,
Speaker 1: it's from the Navajo. Yeah. Yeah, well, so there's a
Speaker 1: lot I'm not going to go too far into the
Speaker 1: native history of that area, but essentially the Utes and
Speaker 1: the Navajo were not friends for a really long time
Speaker 1: they were kind of friends and they weren't. And then
Speaker 1: the Utes helped the Americans get rid of the Navajos,
Speaker 1: and then Americans were like, nah, just kidding, screw you.
Speaker 1: I gave him like a tiny little parcel of land
Speaker 1: and that was that. Um. But there's some crossover in
Speaker 1: the sort of area traditions. Hopefully no Navajo are listening
Speaker 1: or are listening right now, given to an extent to
Speaker 1: which we just you know, mispronounced and misrepresented all of
Speaker 1: the history that's happened there. The skin walkers were powerful
Speaker 1: witches who could transform themselves into animals. Um, think about
Speaker 1: the werewolves and Twilight. Think about it, think about it,
Speaker 1: think about it. Nope, okay, okay, to see us, yes,
Speaker 1: just just nod. Huh huh. Yeah. So that's that's what
Speaker 1: a skin walker is. I guess. Yeah, you're welcome everyone.
Speaker 1: There's been legends about that kind of thing and all
Speaker 1: kinds of society. It's not just the Indians. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we've got we've got our werewolves and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. And speaking of the Utes, there is
Speaker 1: on the reservation, they've got this little newspaper called the
Speaker 1: Bulletin so I called them. I was going to I did.
Speaker 1: I did call them, did you actually I did. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: I didn't think to call them until just today. They
Speaker 1: haven't called me back. I got a beat the you Bolton,
Speaker 1: which is a small, little dinky newspaper on the reservation,
Speaker 1: and I talked to a guy whose name I can't
Speaker 1: remember now, but I actually expan. I didn't talk to him.
Speaker 1: I got his voicemail and I left him a message
Speaker 1: and uh, and I said, I said, hey, you know
Speaker 1: and sell the mystery podcast and skin Walker Ranch. And
Speaker 1: then I said, um, legend has it that the utes
Speaker 1: are really really terrified at the ranch, And I was
Speaker 1: wondering if you could just let me know if that's
Speaker 1: true or not. So we may just like record a
Speaker 1: little add onto this we may never hear from kind
Speaker 1: of hoping we never hear from them. Well, yeah, because
Speaker 1: I think that what the voicemail we're going to get
Speaker 1: back is is just laughter. Yeah, I think so, I wife, yea.
Speaker 1: I wish I had thought about this earlier, because it
Speaker 1: would have you know, if I called him last week,
Speaker 1: maybe I would have a call back by now. But
Speaker 1: you called way more places than I did. I didn't
Speaker 1: even think to call places. So, yeah, it's just that
Speaker 1: they're they're right over in Utah. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: that far away, you know, And I just that it
Speaker 1: would be interesting. I actually had an idea that I
Speaker 1: tracked down the names of some of the immediate neighbors
Speaker 1: of the ranch. But it's really really hard these days
Speaker 1: to get a phone number. It's obscenely hard. Yeah. You know,
Speaker 1: do you find all these sites that has that have
Speaker 1: these guys for money. Yeah, as you click on the
Speaker 1: phone where it's really annoying, and so it sounds as
Speaker 1: if it's a membership. It's every freaking phone number. This
Speaker 1: is why private private investigators are so expensive. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you guys want to talk about theories? Oh please, let's yeah. Okay,
Speaker 1: the theories are in bullport form, bullet point form. You're ready.
Speaker 1: It's all real, Okay. I'm buying that none of it
Speaker 1: is real. I'm buying that some of it's real and
Speaker 1: some of it isn't. Pretty much covered the basis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those are those are the theories. Yeah, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's about it. Float. I think the parts that are
Speaker 1: real are the dead cattle and the floating lights that
Speaker 1: probably happened that's about it. So can I bring up
Speaker 1: something about the story that I couldn't ever pin down
Speaker 1: until I I couldn't figure out from the retellings what
Speaker 1: was going on until I actually looked into the real
Speaker 1: math of what happens with livestock. Okay, numbers into this.
Speaker 1: I know Terry, it's Terry. No, Terry's the wife, thank you.
Speaker 1: Terry's a guy in a girl's name. I getting confused. Garrett.
Speaker 1: Terry come, you know, makes these reports that he has
Speaker 1: a herd of eighty head of cattle. Now, as Joe
Speaker 1: and I had talked about, there is this possibility that
Speaker 1: forehead were bulls, but we're going to ignore that. That
Speaker 1: means that he because he's in a breeding operation. He
Speaker 1: has all halfers. They're breeding cows, so he is in
Speaker 1: the business of making new cows. Doesn't sound like he
Speaker 1: had a big operation to start with, and I questioned
Speaker 1: his ability to raise that much, that that big of
Speaker 1: a herd, because, like I said, I think he had
Speaker 1: a very small herd to begin with, and then he
Speaker 1: tried to expand quite rapidly as ranches go. As pretty
Speaker 1: small it is, it's about a half mile square. It's
Speaker 1: not a huge area. But it is when you consider
Speaker 1: that he might have had a couple hundred yards square
Speaker 1: to keep cows on because people do that and you
Speaker 1: just feed him. But if he's letting him free range.
Speaker 1: But my point is he was also into these what
Speaker 1: was what was the phrase that you you used your
Speaker 1: you saw to describe it devon his practice revolutionary breeding. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he is into trying to breed as many cows
Speaker 1: as possible, and he's probably trying to uh get impregnant
Speaker 1: every one of the heifer's acceptable normal law is of
Speaker 1: livestock from still birth to post weening is three to
Speaker 1: seven percent. That means that three to seven of the
Speaker 1: animals that are born are either gonna be born dead
Speaker 1: or going to die before they're weaned off. Okay, eighty
Speaker 1: had a cattle in a year, that equates to I
Speaker 1: don't know, about two to five cats in a year.
Speaker 1: He says that in the two years he lost, about
Speaker 1: sixteen had a cattle, which means that possibly at least
Speaker 1: half of what he lost was just normal death due
Speaker 1: to the fact that animals die absolutely. And then there's
Speaker 1: of course, you know, there's again there's predators, predators, Yes, uh,
Speaker 1: cows are stupid and they fall into ravines and die
Speaker 1: and or they just you know, I mean, I've I've
Speaker 1: seen this. Cows they step, they put their feet between
Speaker 1: two rocks and then they move the wrong way and
Speaker 1: they break their leg and they fall down. And because
Speaker 1: their cows and they can't yell for help, nobody comes
Speaker 1: to help them. They just die and then something eats them. So, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand, sixteen head in two years out
Speaker 1: of eighty head is kind of a big and that's
Speaker 1: about ten percent a year loss from just natural predation.
Speaker 1: But when you add in the fact that he's probably
Speaker 1: losing head because of the fact that, you know, young
Speaker 1: animals just naturally die, it's not such a crazy number.
Speaker 1: But that's what I love about this story is that
Speaker 1: on the Internet they constantly say, and in two years
Speaker 1: he lost this many cattle, Like, it's not really that
Speaker 1: man like you right off cattle because animals die. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that he wasn't a sheep farmer. Those things
Speaker 1: die faster than cows. Yeah, And again, I think he
Speaker 1: tried this and he maybe found out that it wasn't
Speaker 1: that profitable, and maybe he found out that it was
Speaker 1: just a lot of work. And they didn't really like
Speaker 1: it that much. Yeah, have you ever seen how you
Speaker 1: have to artificially inseminate a a heifer? I don't even
Speaker 1: want to think. It's not a pleasant thing. It's really gross.
Speaker 1: So he may have realized that that was not the
Speaker 1: way he wanted to do business. Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: it's It's entirely possible. A lot of people, like you know,
Speaker 1: would even fantasize about being ranchers and then actually tried
Speaker 1: to discover that it sucks, it's a lot more work
Speaker 1: than you think. And then, luckily for you in your
Speaker 1: particular case, a billionaire shows up at your doorstep with
Speaker 1: a big fat check. It buys you out. That's my
Speaker 1: whole thing. Like, I'm I'm totally on the side of
Speaker 1: this is completely fake, and I mean I'm on this
Speaker 1: side normally with these kind of stories. But I just
Speaker 1: gotta wonder where, at what point did this family say, dude,
Speaker 1: this blows. What do we do and then suddenly just say,
Speaker 1: you know what, screw We're just gonna tell everybody what
Speaker 1: they wanted to hear anyway and let it just get
Speaker 1: out of hand. I just wonder where and when that
Speaker 1: happened to them because you never hear you can can't
Speaker 1: talk to him, nobody will will ever interview. Now it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. So it's just it's one of those things.
Speaker 1: Breaking wonder they maybe just deliberately put the reports out
Speaker 1: to attract some attention, and maybe, you know, bring I
Speaker 1: think that they might have done it initially just to
Speaker 1: screw with the locals, because these people are dumb and
Speaker 1: they're talking about these all these stories from the seventies
Speaker 1: and the eighties and not realizing how much traction that
Speaker 1: was going to gain, and then just you know, we'll
Speaker 1: we'll just keep having fun with it, and we'll keep
Speaker 1: making bigger and taller tales, and then all of the
Speaker 1: sudden it's you know, it's like these idiots who write
Speaker 1: these books and they say that their true life books
Speaker 1: and it turns out their total farces. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: I don't really think the Sherman's made up all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I think I mean, obviously they're on. I think they
Speaker 1: made up a fair amount that was the seed for
Speaker 1: this whole story. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, definitely, And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they told a fair number of of you know,
Speaker 1: strange lights in the sky and not just strange lights,
Speaker 1: but actually seeing actual, honest to god uf bows, not
Speaker 1: just a light, but an actual, an actual little ship.
Speaker 1: And right there that the actual ship part. I know
Speaker 1: that they are very they're not very creative because it
Speaker 1: was an RV. Yeah, one of the space ships was
Speaker 1: an RV. They said it looked like an RV, that
Speaker 1: they were sure it was an RV, that it lifted
Speaker 1: off of the ground and just cruised away, and it
Speaker 1: had that what was that was that RV brand that
Speaker 1: the the one that had the kangaroo on the side
Speaker 1: and the brown and yellow stripes to either of you
Speaker 1: remember that, Like, I totally expect that from spaceballs. It
Speaker 1: makes me think the one for spaceballs. That's what they saw. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but so yeah, they reported some UFO activity and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, but nothing like you know, no portals, uh
Speaker 1: no bulletproof wolf. Yeah. No. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of additions that have happened to the story. Many many
Speaker 1: people out there, and you know in internet land who
Speaker 1: are just happy to graft all kuyds of you know,
Speaker 1: incredible bs a story. As we have seen with many
Speaker 1: of the stories that we've put out and then correspondence,
Speaker 1: we've gotten back about them. We see this, Yeah, we do,
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty happy with this speaking correspondence. Let's give
Speaker 1: them how to get hold of yeah for real. So
Speaker 1: you can find some of our research as well as
Speaker 1: listen to the show, download episodes, merch, comment, oh, and
Speaker 1: find merch and donate. Patreon buttons are all on the website.
Speaker 1: Um so that website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.
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Speaker 1: financially of the show. Can you tell? It was Pledge
Speaker 1: Week on and pure And I think for this part
Speaker 1: of this, part of the whole thing, and I'd like
Speaker 1: to do is have you know they have Pledge week
Speaker 1: and MP are they always have the ringing phones in
Speaker 1: the background. Yeah, dude, I am not stitching that together.
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Speaker 1: You just had to Patreon dot com, slash thinking sideways
Speaker 1: and all of the information is there. Uh. And all
Speaker 1: of that having been said, I think we're gonna skin
Speaker 1: walk out of here. Really, I'm gonna float out of here,
Speaker 1: skin walk. I'm going to turn into a wolf right now. Okay, whatever, everybody,
Speaker 1: bie guys,