1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you? 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: From house Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today, since 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: we are talking about age gaps in romantic relationships, I 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: would like to take a point of pride in saying 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: that my parents are statistical outliers. Well kind of probably 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: in a number of ways really because they're kookie. But 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: one way in which they are cookie is that my 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: mother is a few years older than my father. I 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: know her birthday is on St. Patrick's Day, so it 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: happened recently. One of her grandchildren asked her how old 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: she is, to which I replied, her age has always 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: been shrouded in mystery, but we do know. It is 15 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: confirmed that she is I want to say, four or 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: five years older than my dad. I can't say for certain, 17 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: it is it's a great mystery. My my mother is 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: five years younger than my dad, so she is more 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: in line with the age differences that were common hundreds 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: of years ago, whereas your mom and dad are are 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: sort of trailblazers. Yeah. Um, although neither of our parents 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: really match up to the average today in the United States, 23 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: which is two point three years typically um in a 24 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: heterosexual couple, the groom will be two point three years 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: older than his bride, basically the same as the average 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: age difference in the UK, which is two point two years. 27 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: And that is with the guy typically being the older party, right, 28 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: And this is a trend forever. According to this two 29 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: eight Princeton study that we read, the ach gap for 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: couples has been declining throughout or had declined all throughout 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, and that brings us to our current 32 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: average of two point three years, as Kristen said, But 33 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: before it declined, it was actually rising in the mid 34 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: nineteenth century for several reasons, and researchers site farmers in 35 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: the West as a good example of that rising age gap. Right, 36 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: Because the frontier in those early days were wild, untamed places, 37 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: so the sex ratio of men to women was really high, 38 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: which we talked about in our Our Madam's podcast a 39 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: while ago. So these psychologists, these Princeton psychologists, think that 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: farmers on the frontier would have been more likely to 41 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: select for younger wives so that they would make for 42 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: better partners in this untamed land. Because you're younger, you're stronger, 43 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: you can have more babies to help you out tame 44 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: in all those cattle heads, right exactly. And you know, 45 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: going back to the sex ratio that you mentioned, they 46 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: might not have had a choice. I mean, if the 47 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: women who were around who were unmarried were much younger, 48 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: then that's just who they had to marry, you know, 49 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: regardless of whether they were bringing them from the East 50 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: or whatever. If if the younger women were all that 51 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: were available, that's who they ended up marrying. But from 52 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred to two thousand, heterosexual couples have been headed 53 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: toward homogamy, heteros heading toward homo. But when I'm talking 54 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: about homogamy, I mean age homogamy are the gap between 55 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: men and women who are coupling up has narrowed from 56 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: an average of five years in nineteen hundred to that 57 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: average of just over two years we mentioned by the 58 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: year two thousand. But even though the trend is age 59 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: homogamy may december relations ships of the significantly older man 60 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: or woman partnering up with someone significantly younger. Even though 61 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: we're seeing it more often, we're still largely uncomfortable with it. Right, 62 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: and Lois Smith Brady, who's written columns for The New 63 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: York Times over a decade for over a decade about couples, 64 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: wrote a piece for O Magazine which I Love in 65 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven about these types of relationships, and 66 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: she says that a generation gap makes both people ask 67 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: hard questions about love, aging, permanent sacrifice, and family and 68 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: getting into the uncomfortable nous. She says that when it's 69 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: the woman who's much older, she becomes more conscious of 70 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: the fragility of her beauty, her fertility, and her vision. 71 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: So while it seems like society in general is more 72 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: accepting of older men and younger women, except when it's 73 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: in the case of Hugh Hefner and his twenty year 74 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: old girlfriends um, they're not as accepting of the older 75 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: woman younger man thing. The cougar phenomenon, which will talk 76 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: about ye whether or not it really is a thing 77 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: that is not just Courtney Cox on cougar Town. Right. 78 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: Uh so, but you also pulled some quotes from that 79 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: article about women who had dated younger men that that 80 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: points out that insecurity that might arise. So a lot 81 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: of these women who were interviewed for this piece in 82 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: a magazine, expressed that even though they were committed to 83 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: these men they were with, some of them married, some 84 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: of them just dating, the relationship still made them feel older. 85 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: One woman who's forty six who's married to a thirty 86 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: two year old man, said that women are just more 87 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: critical of ourselves. I don't feel older all the time, 88 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: just when I look in the mirror. And another woman, 89 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: a fifty year old who's dating a thirty three year 90 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: old guy, said that there's this whole issue of societal 91 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: perceptions of women who date much younger men. And she 92 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: said that if the older woman has money, she's seen 93 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: as pathetic because she's buying the attention of a younger man. 94 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: But if she has no money, it seems like she's 95 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: just hanging onto her lost youth, which is pretty hard. Yeah, 96 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all. It's the whole Mrs Robinson thing 97 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: from the Graduate, even though and Bancroft when they were 98 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: filming The Graduate was six years I think it was 99 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: six years. Film buffs out there correct me if I'm wrong, 100 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: but I believe and Bankropt, he played Mrs Robinson, was 101 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: only six years older than Dustin Hoffman. But the criticism 102 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: that um women, older women dating younger men, significantly younger 103 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: men might receive probably also relates to the very reason 104 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: why it is more common for women to marry older men. 105 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: And this is coming from a pair of Canadian researchers, 106 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: Monica Boyd and and Lee, and they point out that 107 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: the value and acceptability of aging men is higher than 108 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: that of the aging woman. And I don't think we 109 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: need to explain very much into that. We can talk 110 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: about the beauty myth, we can talk about men's earning power. 111 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: Um So, even though it's becoming a little bit more common, 112 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: um it's it's still considered something that maybe maybe these 113 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: older women are buying, you know, the the affection of 114 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: these younger men. And also the same the same thing 115 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: is lodged though too against older men like you Hefner 116 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: or Donald Trump dating significantly younger women, saying it's just 117 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: an issue of money and power that love cancer pass 118 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: that kind of age gap, right, And the O magazine 119 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: piece really was striving to show that these relationships are 120 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: just like any other relationship. It's just that age happens 121 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: to be a major factor in them. But not everybody 122 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: not everybody is is so comfortable and accepting and The 123 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: Global Male quoted sex therapist Julia Cole, who said that 124 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: the May December romances are only successful when both partners 125 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: acknowledge their transitional nature. She says that they're about control, 126 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: I guess on the older person's part, or the need 127 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: to be looked after by the younger person. Well sure, 128 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: but don't most romantic relationships boiled down to a desire 129 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: for companionship? Well sure um. Also, Monica boyd And and 130 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: Lee pointed out that textbooks in the nineties, sixties, and 131 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: seventies would portray large age differences in couples as being 132 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: fostered by people who had either like father daughter or 133 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: mother son psychological issues. So there's probably some still some 134 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: of that lingering prejudice out there, even though statistically people 135 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: with significant age differences are no less likely to be 136 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: happy in their marriages, happy and satisfying their marriages, and 137 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: are no more prone to divorce. Right, it's a matter 138 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: of just like in any other relationship, it's a matter 139 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: of finding someone you're compatible with. And some of the 140 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: couples quoted in Oh, We're saying that it was more 141 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: an issue of finally finding someone who was on the 142 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: same page, who was interested in the same things. It 143 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if the guy is twenty years younger than you. 144 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: If he's interested in the same things you are, there's 145 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: still the potential potential for attraction. But what about the 146 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: issue of the age gap actually putting you at different 147 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: life stages. That's true, that's a big concern that a 148 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: lot of psychologist rays, including Susan Heitler who wrote for 149 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: Psychology Today, that as couples with an age gap get older, 150 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: they will continue to negotiate differing life stage desires. So 151 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: you might have one partner who is entering the winter 152 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: of his or her life and the younger partner who's 153 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: just in middle age and is having to take care 154 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: of the older partner. And psychiatrists j R. Bruns goes 155 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: as far as to say that the trend of May 156 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: December romance is damaging to our society. And going even further, 157 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: George Gilder, who's an activist and author, says that when 158 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: older men abandoned their wives for younger women, there is 159 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: a major rupture of the social system, and this is 160 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: a practice of hoarding women by older men with exceptional wealth. 161 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: Fame and power. But I'm going to go ahead and 162 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: say that Bruns and Guilder are not correct in that assessment. 163 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: Please film in well, I mean, if we're talking about UM, 164 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,239 Speaker 1: this made a simber relationship, especially between older man significantly 165 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: younger women, being a product of wealth and power on 166 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: the guy's part. This UM demographic research from Canada that 167 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: I've mentioned a couple of times from Monica, Boyd and 168 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: and Lee completely contradicts that. And actually, while yeah, you 169 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: have those instances of the celebrity made a simber relationships, 170 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: but on the whole in the general population, UM, the 171 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: wide age gaps are actually associated with lower educational attainment 172 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: and lower income. So people like half our outliers. Yes, 173 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,359 Speaker 1: absolutely and going more into these real world risks rewards 174 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: of the age gaps in relationships. There is some concern 175 00:10:53,679 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: among teen girls, especially partnering up with significantly older guys. UM. 176 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 1: This is coming from research out of the Gootmacker Institute 177 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: that highlighted some disconcerting patterns for for these kind of relationships. Yeah, 178 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: the Goomacker Institute looked at data from the National Survey 179 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: of Family Growth regarding age differences and found that among 180 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: teen girls aged fifteen to seventeen, Most had a partner 181 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: within two years of their own age, but the next 182 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: biggest chunk, at twenty nine percent, had a partner three 183 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: to five years older. And among girls that they looked 184 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: at age fifteen to seventeen who had a partner six 185 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: or more years older had a pregnancy rate three points 186 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: seven times as high as the rate among those whose 187 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: partner was no more than two years older. So, this, 188 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: this whole study and age demographics and pregnancy rates brings 189 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: up the concern about exploitation and vulnerability of young girls well. 190 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: And also this is the time when if you have 191 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: two teens that are are roughly the same age, they're 192 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: probably the same sort of sexual maturity and experience level. 193 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: And if you are a teen trying to go after 194 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: a significantly older person who might have had a lot 195 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: more experience, um, you might feel insecure because of that 196 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: and want to possibly demonstrate more sexual maturity than you 197 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: might really have. Yeah. Psychologist Lynn Phillips interviewed a bunch 198 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: of young girls or young women who were in relationships 199 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: with guys who were ten twelve years older. She also 200 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: interviewed older women who had been in those types of 201 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: relationships when they were teens, and she found an interesting 202 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: division the young girls who were you know, fifteen to 203 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: seventeen about Um, I didn't find a problem with the 204 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: relationship that they were in. They found the older guys 205 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: more polite. They totally were like, I'm not being exploited 206 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: or taken advantage of. This guy has done sowing his 207 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: wild oats, which is why he's hanging out with a 208 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: seventeen year old. So there was definitely a perception that 209 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: a little bit skewed. But given hindsight, she found that 210 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: the older women who had been in that situation before 211 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: expressed nothing but anger and disgust at the relationship they 212 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: had had. Yeah, but speaking of older women, let's talk 213 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: about the flip side, where we have the older women 214 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: who are um desirous of significantly younger men and I'm 215 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: talking about, yep, the cougars. I got to talk about 216 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: the cougars and unfortunately use the term cougar while talking 217 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: about a lot already. Yeah, and um, just for a 218 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: little etymology fund before we dive into more statistics. Uh, 219 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: A lexicographer out of Canada traces cougar the use of 220 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: cougar back to around when cougar date dot Com was 221 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: first born and two thousand one with a publication of 222 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: Valerie Gibson's Cougar, a Guide for older Women Dating younger men. 223 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: And there was also um this idea that it goes 224 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: back to. It was some trend among Canadian youth hockey teams. 225 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: They started using cougar yeah, as a slang term for 226 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: for older desirous that's women. That is so random. Yeah, 227 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: I didn't expect that at all. Canada, the home of 228 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: the cougars. I guess, well done, Canada. Well cougari Ism, 229 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: cougar dum, cougar nous really exploded a couple of years 230 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: ago with the rise of Cougar Town, Courtney Cox's TV show. 231 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: And I guess it was around the same time that 232 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher got married. She of the long, 233 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: glossy black hair of which I am so jealous, right, 234 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: and that's this whole thing of Oh, well, now women 235 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: have all of the botox and the plastic surgery that 236 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: we need in order to keep ourselves looking young, fresh 237 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: and just the delectable to the young men's right. And uh. 238 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: Writing for The Daily Beast in two thousand nine, Ramensituda 239 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: blame the blosion of cougar characters on Hollywood's lack of 240 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: marketable twenty something starletts. He's basically saying, like Lindsay Lohan 241 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: is drunk all the time. So now we're injecting all 242 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: these older actresses with botox, which is why we're seeing 243 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: more older women younger men relationships on screen. But stretch 244 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: that that example that has inherently flawed Caroline, because Lindsay 245 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: Lohan has it seems like she has abused some botox 246 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: and it was a little disconcerting and something with the lips. Um. Yeah, 247 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily by that that Daily Beast argument, and 248 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: the New York Times sitting by it either they beg 249 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: to differ. They staid up. Maybe so if you're talking 250 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: about television or the box office. But behind the unleashing 251 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: of cougars and pop culture is a real demographic shift, 252 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: driven by new choices that women over forty year making 253 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: as they redefine the concept of a suitable mate. And 254 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: this is probably true as we have more earning power, 255 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: and we might not have had the time in our 256 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: twenties and in our third ties while we were building 257 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: up these successful careers to set up a family and 258 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: really devote ourselves to building some kind of relationship. So 259 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: we reach our forties and hey, you know we we 260 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: might not be as constrained to date within our age box, right. 261 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: But the New York Times points out that as women 262 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: have delayed marriage, men have continued to date and marry 263 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: younger women, And so that kind of brings up the 264 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: point that we made about the two thousand eight Princeton 265 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: study with basically who is left and and it's definitely 266 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: not an issue of just women being like, oh my god, 267 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: who's left to date? These are definitely choices that people 268 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: are making. But there is also the issue of if 269 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: you are a successful woman who's put off marriage and 270 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: family and all this stuff, and some of the men 271 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: your age are dating women twenty years younger, you know, 272 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: where are you going to look? Cougar date dot com apparently. 273 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: And one of the issues as far as choosing partners 274 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: is economics, and both women and men, particularly as the 275 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: wage gap has narrowed, are growing more comfortable with the 276 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: possibility that the woman is the higher earner. This is 277 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: this is coming out of the New York Times also, 278 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: And while the woman may not want to take a 279 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: slacker under her wing. They say she is less likely 280 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: to be focused on the status of her partner than 281 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: women of previous generations. And for some numerical perspective on 282 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: this demographic shift toward women who are dating and marrying 283 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: younger men, the number of marriages between women who are 284 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: at least five to ten years older than their spouse 285 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: is five point four percent and one point three percent, respectively. 286 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: But according to andrew A. Beverage, who's a demographer at 287 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: Queen's College, both of those rates have doubled between nineteen 288 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: sixty and two thousand seven. And meanwhile, the percentage of 289 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: marriages of older men and younger women steadily decreased through 290 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and since then has remained pretty stable. So this, 291 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: this idea of the rise of the cougar statistically true. Yeah. 292 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: And this is backed up by Sander Karen, who's a 293 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: University of Main professor of family relations in human sexuality, 294 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: who said, for a long time, we've been fed this 295 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: idea that women should look for a man to take 296 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: care of her, a man that is more educated, has 297 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: a better job, and makes more money. She says that 298 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: that might be fine, and Danny. If you're in high 299 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: school and have a fairy tale prince charming idea, but 300 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: when you look at adult women, mess yourself sufficient and 301 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: they don't have to look for that. M m m. 302 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: And a survey in two thousand three by a RP 303 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: of two thousand ninety four older single women ages forty 304 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: to sixty nine found that were dating or had recently 305 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: dated a man at least five years younger, backing up 306 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: that quote about we don't need no man take care 307 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: of us. Yeah, but we're still dating the companionship, but 308 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: it's not so much that we're like we need some 309 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: older father figure who's going to protect us from the 310 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: big scary world and give us money like the six 311 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: Season seventies textbook would suggest we have. We have father 312 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: issues of some sort. Um. So, but the big question 313 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: that a lot of researchers have wanted to figure out, 314 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: and there are multiple answers for this, is whether or 315 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: not there is some kind of golden age gap, whether 316 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: or not um there is one um age gap that 317 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: somehow makes for a better couple than than others. And 318 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: like I said, there are multiple answers related to mortality, risk, reproduction, 319 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: and just basic marital satisfaction, because we've already said that 320 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: that the age gap doesn't seem to correlate to marital 321 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: satisfaction and whether or not you are going to get 322 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: divorced your risk of divorce, But there are there are 323 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: some interesting links between age gap and mortality and how 324 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: it affects men and women differently. Specifically, women who marry 325 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: men seven to nine years younger than them have a 326 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: twenty percent higher mortality risk than women who marry men 327 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: their own age. Meanwhile, men who marry women seven and 328 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: nine years younger have an eleven percent lower mortality risk. 329 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: So for women marrying younger means we might die sooner, 330 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: but men marrying younger means they'll live longer. Right, so 331 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: there's just no winning except if you marry a man 332 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: who is about your same age, is what this study uncovered. Yeah. 333 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: The study is coming out of the max Plank Institute 334 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: in Germany from two thousand ten and um. They eliminated 335 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: some of the statistical shortcomings of earlier research and controlled 336 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: for as many factors as possible and came up with 337 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: this estimate that a woman should marry a man of 338 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: exactly the same age for the best mortality outcomes for her. 339 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: But there was also this UM Swedish study which calculated 340 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: that UM, for a AND's best outcome, he should marry 341 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: a woman fifteen years younger. But my best outcome that 342 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: study meant the most children. Oh okay, so not living longer, yes, um. 343 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: And there was also a follow up study on that 344 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: which claimed that the ideal reproductive match for a man 345 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: is to marry a woman six years since junior. So 346 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: again we're all over the map. Marry someone you're same age, 347 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: marry someone two years younger than you, marry someone six 348 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: years or fifteen years, I don't know. Maybe just marry 349 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: who you like. Yeah, put that on a pillow. That 350 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: is going to be the more a moral of the story. 351 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: But there was one rule of thumb that we ran 352 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: across for determining the social acceptability of an age gap, 353 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: and this is coming from Christopher Beam at Slate and 354 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: supposedly you can decide whether or not your age gap 355 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: is a oka with society UM by dividing the age 356 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: gap between partners by two and then adding seven. Yes. 357 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: I brought this up with my roommate last night just 358 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: to run it by him, and before I had even 359 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: finished speaking. He had already finished my sentence for him. 360 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: He's like, oh, yeah, I used to do that all 361 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: the time. And I was like, what are you talking about. 362 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: He's like, well, you know, just living in a college 363 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: town after you've already graduated college, you have to be 364 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: really careful about who you hang out. So yeah, he 365 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: he um, he double checked one uh one date he 366 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: had so if he's third using that, using that method, 367 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: if he's thirty, then the lowest he could go would 368 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: be twenty two. There you go. So he was yeah, 369 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: this was a couple of years ago, and he was 370 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: within that and with all of this research too. And 371 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: I feel like I have to say this so many 372 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: times on the podcast, but one thing that did not 373 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: come up was how this age gap information relates to 374 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: same sex couples, which I was really surprised by. Yeah, 375 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 1: there was no there was no demographic information on that. 376 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: So same sex folks out there, we were thinking about you, 377 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: but unfortunately research has not been thinking enough of about it. Um. 378 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: So it seems like really, in real world terms, age 379 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: gaps and relationships don't necessarily matter. It can make a 380 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: big difference if it is more of a generation gap. Yeah, 381 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: the life stage gap. Yeah, you have to worry about 382 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: those life stages. If one if one partner you know 383 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: needs to be at home and can't really get out 384 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: as much, and the other partners like, whoa, let's go 385 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: travel and go on cruises and stuff, you have to 386 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: worry about that. But another takeaway from this too is 387 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: that the whole Hugh Hefner super young playboy girlfriend is 388 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: the exception and not the rule. That these age gaps 389 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: are usually more predictive of lower living standards. So some 390 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: interesting data when you tease it all apart May December 391 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: relationships doesn't necessarily mean that you have strange paternal issues. 392 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: Just maybe means that you found someone or maternal or maternal. 393 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: Maybe it just means that you found someone who uh 394 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: who floats your boat. But maybe it was just a 395 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: born a long time after you were right. Just be flexible, 396 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: be open minded, you know, share some interests. What do 397 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: you think about cougar though, Caroline? Should we retire it? 398 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: Let's retire it? Yes, that's all I got. Well, folks 399 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: um age gaps, what do you think about them? People 400 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: who are in relationships with large age gaps? How has 401 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: it worked out? Has there ever been a hindrance. Does 402 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: age really matter in relationship? And if people ever say 403 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: things to you in a critical way, do people ever 404 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: ask if that person is your parent? There there was 405 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: one person quoted who said that people thought that she 406 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: was hanging out with her dad. That could be awkward. 407 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: Let us know your awkward stories. Mom. Stuff at Discovery 408 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 1: dot Com is email address, and I have an email 409 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: here from Christie on our episode about whether or not 410 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: gay households are more egalitarian, and she writes, and the 411 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: studies that dealt with the division of labor and couples, 412 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: did those compiling the information determine a way to differentiate 413 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: between gender roles and the same sex couples. It's easy 414 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: enough to determine roles hours, money and heterosexual couples, but 415 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: when both partners or women are both partners or men, 416 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: I'd imagine that it's a little more difficult. It's been 417 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: my observation in the same sex couples, I know that 418 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: one partner is more feminine and the other partners were masculine, 419 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: and they tend to fill those traditional traditional gender roles. Accordingly, 420 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: I've observed that the them tends to do more child 421 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: rearing and housework just like the wife would do in 422 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: a typical hetero marriage. They're quite frank about it, actually, 423 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: as opposed to many hetero couples who just assumed that 424 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: the woman will do most of the work. If studies 425 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: just asked all of the partners and same sex couples 426 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: what hours they spend on work, household, kids, and an 427 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: average everything together, of course the numbers wouldn't match. My 428 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: observation and my lesbian friends is that they have the 429 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: same kind of work division in generals that hetero couples do. 430 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: And I answered Christie that the study that we referenced 431 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: did indeed take those sex roles in general roles into 432 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: account by gendering the lips of activity. So it wasn't 433 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: just one big, massive average. It was averaging out work 434 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: that is typically done by women typically done by men, 435 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: and seeing who does what that way. And thanks for 436 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: the good question. And this one is from Delan. She's 437 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: writing us about female wrestling. She says, I am a 438 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: thirteen year old seventh grade girl. I am not really big, 439 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: only about a hundred pounds and only five foot, but 440 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: I take martial arts. I have taken different types since 441 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: I was six years old, and when I go to 442 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: my classes, most of the students are boys. Only me 443 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: and my siths are the gals. We sometimes grapple wrestling 444 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of but starts on the ground, and when we 445 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: do so, most of the boys refuse to fight me 446 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: and my little sister. They will not fight my sis 447 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: ten years old because she really doesn't stand a chance. 448 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: But me, well, they are terrified of me. I'm not 449 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: just bragging or anything, but have you, gals, anyway that 450 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: you think I could convince the guys that is not 451 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: shameful to get their butt kicked by a girl and grappling. 452 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of embarrassing when I have to work with 453 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: a low ranking kid or my sith and don't have 454 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: a challenge. Do you have any ideas, Caroline, I don't 455 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: know how to get so the boys are smaller than 456 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: her um and they're and and they're too nervous that 457 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: they might get beaten by a girl. Yeah, these are 458 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 1: attitudes that she wants to be changed so that she 459 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: can have a fair fight. What can she do? I 460 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: don't know, Maybe maybe her Maybe she can ask her 461 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: instructor to pair her up with with someone. I might 462 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: have to be, might have to be instructor intervention. Yeah, 463 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: but then I mean, you know, then there's the boys 464 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 1: might get angry. I don't know, hey, but you might 465 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: as well take a risk. It seems like maybe the 466 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: first option, Dylan, would be to talk to your instructor 467 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: and see if and see if he or she can 468 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: intervene and then go from there. Or maybe just tell 469 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: tell the boys to stop being being so skeered. Yeah, exactly. So. 470 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: Thanks to Dull everyone else for writing in mom Stuff 471 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com m is email address. You can 472 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: also find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter 473 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast, and you can read what we're 474 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: writing during the week at our website, it's how Stuff 475 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Be sure to check out our new 476 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work 477 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities 478 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. 479 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you by the 480 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you