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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephmon.

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Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. Uh,

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Speaker 1: today we are talking about Scandal and not the show,

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Speaker 1: which is a great show, though I never got into it,

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Speaker 1: so I actually only watched that thing the first three

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Speaker 1: seasons and then I was like, Okay, this is way

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Speaker 1: too much, way too much. Yeah, I saw one episode

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Speaker 1: and I thought it was a little overboard for me.

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Speaker 1: I can see why people like it, but because it's

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Speaker 1: got sex, politics, sex things we're talking about today, and

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Speaker 1: we're looking specifically at women in political scandal and some

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Speaker 1: gender differences in how female politicians and male politicians are

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Speaker 1: able to recover or not recover or from a scandal.

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Speaker 1: And we do have UM quick suggar warning, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to get in too much detail about anything, but

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Speaker 1: what we are going to be talking about, UM revenge

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Speaker 1: porn briefly, and UM sexual assaults just in general sexual

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Speaker 1: situations corruption. UM. Yeah. So this was in part inspired

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Speaker 1: by the recent scandal involving Representative Katie Hill, which we

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Speaker 1: will get into in a little bit UM, and it

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Speaker 1: involves a lot of things, a lot of disparate threads,

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Speaker 1: UM that are all episodes that have been done in

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Speaker 1: the past are and we could probably revisit like revenge

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Speaker 1: porn me to sexual harassment, but we're just going to

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Speaker 1: touch on those things today, right right. Um, So, definitions,

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Speaker 1: we like to start with definitions from a paper called

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Speaker 1: Corruption and Sexual Scandal. The importance of politician gender. Political

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Speaker 1: scandal is quote any action or event involving a politician

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Speaker 1: that is regarded as illegal, corrupt, or unethical and prompts

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Speaker 1: general public outrage. This can be something Mike violating the

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Speaker 1: Constitution here in the United States, the crimes and misdemeanors

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Speaker 1: we hear about abuse of power, our violations of socially

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Speaker 1: established ethical and moral standards. These scandals, depending on their severity.

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Speaker 1: Um and, as we're going to get into gender and

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Speaker 1: skin color, can permanently impact a politicians electability. Political scandals

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Speaker 1: can and have to stabilize the status quo and permanently

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Speaker 1: altered history. We know this, we're seeing this actually, um

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Speaker 1: they've added terms and phases to our lexicon. Corruption is

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Speaker 1: a major obstacle for achieving equality. Yeah, so it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty big deal. We're talking about it. It's hard to differentiate.

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Speaker 1: There are two main types of scandal, corruption and sexual.

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Speaker 1: Uh in our it seems to be that's the case,

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Speaker 1: UM and in general, people are more concer learned with

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Speaker 1: corruption scandals as opposed to sexual scandals. However, women are

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Speaker 1: punished more severely when it comes to sexual scandals of

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Speaker 1: similar magnitude carried out by men to a lesser extent.

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Speaker 1: Women are punished more severely for corruption scandals as well.

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Speaker 1: But let's look at some examples, shall we. Let's all right,

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Speaker 1: So one thing I would say before we get into this,

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Speaker 1: something I thought of at first when we were talking

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Speaker 1: about doing this episode, is a difference I see a

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Speaker 1: lot in political scandals when it comes to gender. UM

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Speaker 1: is not only in the forgiveness or willing to forget,

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Speaker 1: willingness to forget or not, or willingness to forgive or not,

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Speaker 1: but also the public apology portion, because I feel like, dude,

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Speaker 1: politicians always drag their wife up there and she's standing

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Speaker 1: next to them, maybe slightly behind them, to show that

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Speaker 1: she supports this male politician, her husband or whoever while

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Speaker 1: he apologizes, which is kind of have you in the

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Speaker 1: episodes of Parts and rec main corrupt sexual harasser of

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Speaker 1: all you know that has all of those sandals. You

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Speaker 1: see the wife every time in the final I think,

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Speaker 1: the final corruption story that's made public, she just turns

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Speaker 1: her back and just puts her head down. I'm done,

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Speaker 1: I am done. Um. Yeah. It always feels so awkward

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Speaker 1: and comfortable. And I mean the whole thing is awkward

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Speaker 1: and uncomfortable, But I mean even the fact that women

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Speaker 1: have to come out and make statements, especially in this

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Speaker 1: era of social media. Um, Kavanaugh's wife, I think had

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Speaker 1: made a statement, didn't she in regards to supporting her husband.

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Speaker 1: Is just there's something about it feels really dicky, and

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I have seeing that kind of

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Speaker 1: public apology with a male with the female politician and

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Speaker 1: her significant other rail right her. Um, okay, But examples

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Speaker 1: one is the eating affair from eight to thirty one.

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Speaker 1: Early on in Andrew Jackson's term, his friend and Secretary

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Speaker 1: of War, John Henry Eaton got married to Margaret Peggy O'Neill,

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Speaker 1: and Peggy had a reputation for being promiscuous, and apparently

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Speaker 1: it was quite the reputation. It eventually led to the

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Speaker 1: dissolution of Jackson's cabinet. A lot of Jackson's cabinet and

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Speaker 1: their wives, because yes, all the cabinet members were men

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Speaker 1: at the time, did not approve of Peggy and her behavior,

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Speaker 1: and by association, they did not approve of Eaton for

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Speaker 1: being with her. Jackson stood behind his friend Eaton, but

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Speaker 1: eventually tensions boiled over and became apparent that things couldn't

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Speaker 1: be solved. Jackson forced cabinet members to resign. Peggy was

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Speaker 1: perhaps a more emotional lynchpin members of the cabinet against

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Speaker 1: Eaton's protective terrorists could use to force them out. They

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Speaker 1: were really against that thing, right, and they pointed to

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Speaker 1: her from a msculous woman and used that to kind

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Speaker 1: of take him out. Yeah. During the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 1: member of Parliament and a wife of Northern Ireland's first Minister,

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Speaker 1: Aris Robinson was discovered having an affair with a man

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Speaker 1: forty years older than her. The press dubbed her the

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Speaker 1: Celtic cougar and she had to step down. Wow, of course,

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Speaker 1: what a nickname. Former Home Secretary of the UK Jackie Smith,

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Speaker 1: resigned after it was revealed that she claimed the purchase

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Speaker 1: of pornographic films as part of her parliamentary expenses. She

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Speaker 1: claimed the purchases were her husband's but she still resigned,

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Speaker 1: reasoning quote, she I was the one who did the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing, for claiming it, for not going through the

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Speaker 1: expense forum closely enough. And then again, we want to

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Speaker 1: talk about Monica Lewinsky. I don't think we could bypass

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Speaker 1: any conversations about politics and scandal without talking about her.

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Speaker 1: We've already talked about her doing our women in Sexuality episode,

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Speaker 1: but this was the scandal of Bill Clinton's presidency. She

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Speaker 1: was a White House intern that ended up being recorded

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Speaker 1: and being the main witness for Clinton's impeachment. She was

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Speaker 1: of course ridiculed, slut shamed and scapegoat and guest lighted

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Speaker 1: throughout her career, as in um she actually apologized to

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Speaker 1: the Clintons during a Barbara Walter special, which says a lot.

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Speaker 1: And then she moved to London to try to stay

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Speaker 1: out of the spotlight. And I don't think it was

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Speaker 1: until the Me Too movement and her powerful essay that

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Speaker 1: she wrote for Vanity Fair that she started to become

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Speaker 1: recognized as not the slutty temptress, but perhaps a young

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Speaker 1: night girl who was groomed by the most powerful man

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Speaker 1: in the country. But we see that she was really

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Speaker 1: vilified from jump and even now she still has moments

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Speaker 1: of being made fun of and all of that, and

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Speaker 1: and there have been several people who have apologized from

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Speaker 1: their reaction, but you know, she's a prime example of

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Speaker 1: women in politics. She's become the main source of ridicule

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Speaker 1: as if it was all her fault, which is a

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Speaker 1: whole different standard in itself. And then coming into Katie Hill,

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Speaker 1: who was the inspiration for this specific episode. In October

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, California Representative Katie Hill resigned after a committee

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Speaker 1: investigation into her alleged sexual relationship with her legislative director

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Speaker 1: and staffer from her campaign. She told the Ethics Committee,

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Speaker 1: I know that even a consensual relationship with a subordinates inappropriate,

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Speaker 1: but I still allowed it to happen despite my better judgment.

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Speaker 1: For that, I apologize. I wish nothing but the best

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Speaker 1: for her and hope everyone respects her privacy in this

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Speaker 1: difficult time. And then she released the statement about it.

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Speaker 1: I know that as long as I'm in Congress, will

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Speaker 1: live fearful of what might come next and how much

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Speaker 1: it will hurt. And she was right to be fearful. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: this all was a result of a post on rest

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Speaker 1: state about the affair, um, complete with intimate pictures, one

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Speaker 1: in which she and the other woman in the photo

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Speaker 1: are naked. Hill claims this is the work of her

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Speaker 1: abusive ex husband, who, in her words, is determined to

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Speaker 1: humiliate her. And actually there was a statement released by

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Speaker 1: the ex husband saying that his phone had been hacked.

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Speaker 1: So that makes you wonder mania things. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: a really murky situation. Sexual relationships with underlings or those

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Speaker 1: who are your subordinates is bad. Abuse is bad, revenge

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Speaker 1: porn is bad. And because of the complexity of the

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Speaker 1: story the number of threads, Democrats were accused of having

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Speaker 1: somewhat confused response. When asked, Kamala Harris committed, let's also

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Speaker 1: speak the truth that men and women are not held

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Speaker 1: to the same standards. Um, I mean, look at who's

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Speaker 1: in the White house. Katie Hill was one of the

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Speaker 1: first openly bisexual representatives, something that drew a lot of

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Speaker 1: I are from conservatives. Some people call this electronic assault

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Speaker 1: or digital exploitation, and others call it revenge porn. As

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Speaker 1: the victim of it, I call it one of the

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Speaker 1: worst things that we can do to our sisters and

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Speaker 1: our daughters. And that was a quote from Katie Hill.

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Speaker 1: And I think that does bring up a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions about what should be allowed, what isn't allowed. What

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Speaker 1: is again, um, the law with revenge porn or publicizing

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Speaker 1: someone else's photo, how does that work? I mean that

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Speaker 1: even comes into talking about Instagram photos and although it

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Speaker 1: is public property after you do publish it on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: which is weird to me in itself. Um, when someone

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Speaker 1: uses that to profit off of it's such and it's

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Speaker 1: not yours, it's such a weird conversation to have. And

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Speaker 1: this is that same well even worse idea that as

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Speaker 1: an act of revenge or because you're mad, you take

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Speaker 1: something that was consensual. And yes, using like any relationships

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Speaker 1: with people who is a subordinate is very very inappropriate.

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Speaker 1: But again we've never really seen that this level of

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Speaker 1: intensity as she had been drawn. Katie Hill has kind

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Speaker 1: of been pulled into and all of the conversations about

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Speaker 1: her sexuality was the question. I believe there was a

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Speaker 1: conversation that she was her her husband or an a

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Speaker 1: polyamorous relationship. So there were so many things about this

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Speaker 1: that people were uncomfortable with and used against her. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: and I can only imagine. Uh. I did some research

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Speaker 1: into this for our episode. We did around sledge shaming

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Speaker 1: journalists in India. Um. When something that intimate is posted

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Speaker 1: without your consent and then shared, and it's so hard

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Speaker 1: to prevent it, to get it taken down, it just

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Speaker 1: keeps popping up. And to get the notifications and to

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Speaker 1: know that your your friends and family maybe have seen

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Speaker 1: these things. UM, it's just devastating. Uh. It makes my

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Speaker 1: heart hurt thinking about it. And and the problem too

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Speaker 1: that now that we're in this electronic age, you could

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Speaker 1: it could not even be your body. They can photoshop

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Speaker 1: your head right, someone else's body. They did that with

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren and I can't remember, Oh my goodness, who

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Speaker 1: was the journal and I say that in quotes, who

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Speaker 1: was the person who tried to say that Elizabeth Warren

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Speaker 1: had an affair with a very young man and me

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Speaker 1: and a cougar. And then they looked at the photo

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Speaker 1: and the dude was really bad. Photo shows bad or

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Speaker 1: like it was so outdated that it was unreal. Um,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, and that's kind of but that's feel

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Speaker 1: What if they had taken that seriously? What if someone

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Speaker 1: was actually really good at photo shopping. What do you know?

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Speaker 1: What if that had happened and her reputation was marred completely?

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Speaker 1: And because people are dying to see a scandal, they

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Speaker 1: want to believe the worst. Yeah, people believe what they see. Um,

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Speaker 1: if we look at Hillary Clinton's presidential run, she was

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Speaker 1: regularly vilified for the sexual infidelities and transgressions of her husband. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was on tape admitting to infidelity and sexual

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Speaker 1: assault himself. Um, so that brings us to gender differences

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Speaker 1: and political scandals. What do those look like? You probably

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Speaker 1: have some idea, But first it brings us to a

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Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, And we're back with gender differences and scandals.

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Speaker 1: We do judge male and female politicians, and we do

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Speaker 1: judge them differently. You can see the episode I did

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Speaker 1: with the folks from the Daily Zeit geists around women

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Speaker 1: in the question of likability for for more on that,

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Speaker 1: because that is the question that follows female politicians, Are

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Speaker 1: you likable? Right? And I think that's already been a

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Speaker 1: campaign for a majority of the wacause I just don't

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Speaker 1: like her, and it doesn't quite make sense. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: going to vote for Hillary, and I'd ask why. That's

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Speaker 1: almost always they say, I just don't like her, and

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Speaker 1: that was it. And I love one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: slash horrible things about the that is that people at

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Speaker 1: the time they're they're numerous reports Elizabeth Warren is way

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Speaker 1: more likable. We should have gone with her. And now

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren is right, and she's not likable. She's bed,

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Speaker 1: weel at you, right, she yells at you, she tries

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Speaker 1: to be too cool, all these things. There are two

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Speaker 1: prevailing theories when it comes to public perceptions of gender,

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Speaker 1: scandal and electability. Expectancy violations theory involves the various expectations

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Speaker 1: should act, behavedors, speak, what have you. Violating these norms

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Speaker 1: generally results in a negative assessment, uncertainty, and lowered perceptions

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Speaker 1: of credibility. This theory primarily evaluates communication, either verbal or nonverbal,

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Speaker 1: but canon has been applied to political scandal. Gender roles,

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Speaker 1: of course, play a huge part in how we expect

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Speaker 1: people to behave right and shifting standards. Theory is more

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Speaker 1: focused when it comes to predicting how reactions and judgments

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Speaker 1: will differ given similar situations, factoring in specific aspects of

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Speaker 1: a person's traits, including gender. Uh. These theories are often

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Speaker 1: used in conjunctions to get to the root of our

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Speaker 1: societal differential reactions to political scanals and men and women

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Speaker 1: basically uf stereotypes and violating or reinfor see stereotypes and

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Speaker 1: double standards. Pretty much what we're talking about. So stereotypes

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Speaker 1: because of the stereotype that women in politics are more

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Speaker 1: honest than men, which surprised me honestly, Um, but that's

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Speaker 1: what the research is found, or perhaps that people expect

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Speaker 1: women to be more honest. Um. They Women are then

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Speaker 1: judged more harshly and held to more richard standards when

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Speaker 1: they are found to be dishonest as compared to men.

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Speaker 1: We use a different set of criteria when judging female

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Speaker 1: politicians we as in the Royal we not me and Samantha,

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Speaker 1: and these standards are stricter. Therefore, given a similar transaggression,

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Speaker 1: women will be judged more harshly than men. Women have

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Speaker 1: further to fall. Essentially that results in a significantly higher

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Speaker 1: loss of support when it comes to the vote. This

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Speaker 1: does depend on the perception and acceptance of gender stereotypes

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Speaker 1: of the voter in question. Another piece of this whole

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Speaker 1: thing is women still make up less of our politicians,

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Speaker 1: and men far less so their watched watched more closely

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Speaker 1: in the US. Specifically in the US, yes, perception of

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Speaker 1: corruption is generally lower when more women are present in politics.

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Speaker 1: If this is true, which a handful of studies have

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Speaker 1: suggested it is, it could be a handful of reasons

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Speaker 1: women being excluded from male networks of corruption, female candidates

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Speaker 1: being overqualified, and female politicians being more risk averse. It

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Speaker 1: could also be that women know they are being watched

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Speaker 1: more closely and being held to a higher standards. This

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Speaker 1: means that more women in politics might decrease the levels

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Speaker 1: of corruption and scandal. Other researchers have questioned at this finding,

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Speaker 1: or at least pointing to the other reasons governments with

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Speaker 1: more female representations may have lower levels of corruption. Freedom

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Speaker 1: of press, for example, has been shown to have the

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Speaker 1: greatest impact on corruption, which makes a lot of sense,

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Speaker 1: And I guess that's even harsher with the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have so much access to social media and so

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Speaker 1: many people spreading whatever opinion they like, right when it

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Speaker 1: comes to sexual scandals, um, these are more in line

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Speaker 1: perceived male stereotypes boys will be boys, um, while women

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Speaker 1: involved in sexual scandal is violating all kinds of stereotypes

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Speaker 1: and brings in fears of women's sexual agency and pleasure.

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Speaker 1: The paper we mentioned earlier, Corruption and sexual scandal The

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Speaker 1: importance of politicians gender found that female politicians involved in

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Speaker 1: scandals were assessed less favorably on all dimensions like electability, morality,

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Speaker 1: and competence when compared to male politicians. For male politicians,

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Speaker 1: involvement in scandals did not affect competence assessment, contrary to

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Speaker 1: what was found for the women. So Another twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: study out of Durham University titled Corruption, Accountability and Gender.

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Speaker 1: Do female politicians face higher standards in public life found

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Speaker 1: that women punish female politicians involved in scandal more harshly

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Speaker 1: than men do, which does not surprising because yeah, you

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Speaker 1: do kind of put yourself on a different standards, so

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Speaker 1: therefore you would expect to have such a high standard

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Speaker 1: of yourself and you wish to be a better person.

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Speaker 1: The u N has looked into questions around women and

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Speaker 1: coruption as well, not only perception and the differences in

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Speaker 1: how women go about corruption, but also the impact corruption

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Speaker 1: has on women specifically. According to their data, poor women

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Speaker 1: are hit hardest when it comes to petty our retail corruption,

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Speaker 1: which is basically when services are sold for a bribe

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Speaker 1: instead of provided its services that are basic and should

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Speaker 1: be provided for free. This type of corruption is often

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Speaker 1: sexualized when women and girls are forced to do sexual

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Speaker 1: favors as bribes. And on top of that, since globally,

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Speaker 1: women are more likely to be barred from work or

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Speaker 1: education and make up a majority of the world's poor,

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Speaker 1: they are disempowered when it comes to changing the status

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Speaker 1: quo and therefore more disproportionately hit by corruption. Their data

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Speaker 1: found that women have been forced to pay bribes even

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Speaker 1: in life threatening medical situations and pregnancies for services that

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Speaker 1: are supposed to be free. NGOs have been perpetrators of

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Speaker 1: sex for food scandals as well, so this is a

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Speaker 1: pretty widespread problem. Numbers from two thousand one out of

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Speaker 1: Botswana found that sixty seven percent of female respondents reported

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Speaker 1: having been harassed by a male professor and ten percent

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Speaker 1: agreed to sexual favors out of fears their grades would

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Speaker 1: be negatively impacted if they didn't. If this results in

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Speaker 1: pregnancy these sexual favors, the female student will most likely

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Speaker 1: be expelled, while the male professor will incur no consequences,

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Speaker 1: which is gross. So these systems of corruption were to

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Speaker 1: keep women out of political office, not having access to networks,

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Speaker 1: to money or property to bribe other officials, being asked

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Speaker 1: for sexual favors to secure the opportunity to run. And

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Speaker 1: these are all barriers that women face at much higher

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Speaker 1: rates than men, and studies have found one way to

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Speaker 1: address this problem is by having more women in office.

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Speaker 1: Similar to the study we mentioned earlier, un also found

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Speaker 1: that women worldwide not only more accurately perceived corruption, they

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Speaker 1: are also less tolerant of corruption. So that thing that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, Samantha, perhaps women are her your judges

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Speaker 1: of female politicians embroiled and scandal, but they might be

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Speaker 1: harsher on everyone. Yet another study out, and I wonder

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Speaker 1: what could have inspired all these political scandal studies around

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Speaker 1: that time. Read quote. We theorize that both hostile and

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Speaker 1: benevolent sexists are more likely than non sexist to punish

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Speaker 1: women for involvement in a sex scandal, but each for

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Speaker 1: different reasons. We posit that women politicians involved in sex

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Speaker 1: scandals activate traditional gender norms and challenge men's dominant position

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Speaker 1: in the society. Thus provoking hostile sexist to punish women

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Speaker 1: more severely than men makes sense to me. Yep, we

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Speaker 1: do have some more for you, but first we have

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Speaker 1: a quick break for word from our sponsor and are back,

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Speaker 1: thank you sponsor. So conclusion, corruption impacts women more. One

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Speaker 1: of the ways to combat this is by getting more

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Speaker 1: women in office. Female politicians are punished more harshly for

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Speaker 1: scandals like corruption and removed from office. Not that people

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Speaker 1: who have done wrong shouldn't be removed from office, but

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Speaker 1: the consequences should be equal regardless of gender. Otherwise we

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Speaker 1: are trapped in this vicious cycle. Right. The UN has

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Speaker 1: partnered with various organizations around the world to better measure

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Speaker 1: and fight corruption with particularly regards to women and girls. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can, um if you want to look that up.

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend it. They're just very specific in countries

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Speaker 1: and um all over. So yeah, that's our look at

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Speaker 1: women and scandal. UM. If there's any scandals that we

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Speaker 1: didn't touch on that you would like for us to

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Speaker 1: please send them our way are or if you want

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Speaker 1: us to expound on one. Um and yeah, just be

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Speaker 1: clear again, bad things you should get removed from office,

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Speaker 1: right absolutely. Anyone who uses power against someone who is

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Speaker 1: um not a power should be pushed or at least

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Speaker 1: you know seen. Yeah, justice, And I guess sort of

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Speaker 1: related to that, we did want to touch on the

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Speaker 1: e r A for a little bit um Equal Rights

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Speaker 1: Amendment right alright, So recently we had some elections here

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Speaker 1: in the United States led to some pretty significant wins

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Speaker 1: for Democrats. Particularly wanted to look at Virginia, which turned blue.

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Speaker 1: It flipped, as they say, and this could be a

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Speaker 1: big deal for the Equal Rights Amendment and it very briefly,

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Speaker 1: this was a constitutional amendment that would give all Americans

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Speaker 1: equal legal protections no matter their sex. It was passed

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Speaker 1: by the House Senate in nine two, but then enthusiasm

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Speaker 1: for it sort of fizzled out. Also was sort of destroyed,

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Speaker 1: thanks in part to the anti r A efforts of

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Speaker 1: Phyllis Schlafley, who played Ding Dong the which is Dead

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Speaker 1: at her party the day the deadline for the ear

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Speaker 1: A past. But there's renewed attention to it because in

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Speaker 1: becoming a blue states, Virginia might ratify it, and it

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Speaker 1: would become the thirty eight state to do so, which

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Speaker 1: would bring the e r A up to the three

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Speaker 1: force it needs for federal ratification. Another thing that would

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Speaker 1: have to happen is Congress changing the deadline for ratification,

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Speaker 1: which was originally set for which the Judiciary Committee just approved. Um. Also,

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Speaker 1: some states are doing a whole like we ratified it then,

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Speaker 1: but we don't want to do it now. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's going to Tennessee in North Dakota, I

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Speaker 1: think so. Yeah. Um, if ratified, the e r A

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Speaker 1: would touch on all kinds of things protection against pregnancy discrimination,

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Speaker 1: pay equity, maternity and paternity leave, and domestic violence laws. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely something to watch as the House has two

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Speaker 1: sponsors with them voting by the end of the year,

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Speaker 1: and does have actually a couple of Republican sponsors from

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Speaker 1: Alaska and Maine. So that's cool. And the likelihood of

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Speaker 1: it hitting the Supreme Court is very very high, So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of tedious in itself and something we all

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Speaker 1: need to pay attention to for sure. Yeah, I'm certain

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Speaker 1: we will be talking about that again in the coming months. Right.

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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to put that update in there.

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Speaker 1: Keep I guess keep any are out or an eye

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Speaker 1: out for any news I like it out. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: gotta keep your ears out and we will be keeping

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Speaker 1: an ears out for any news from you. I guess

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Speaker 1: it would be eyes out. Now I'm confusing myself anyway,

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Speaker 1: just beyond the well on the account. Well, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense either, does that? We have confusers pay attention?

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Speaker 1: How about that? We'll just pay attention? So what will

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Speaker 1: excitedly wait to hear from you? Listeners? You can email

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Speaker 1: us at stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com,

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00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: and you can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff

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Speaker 1: podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've Never told You.

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Speaker 1: Thanks it's always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and

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Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stuff owner told you. The

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio is how Stuff works. For

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