1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heart Radio, and today 3 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: we are joined, and we're so excited to be joined 4 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: by the host of the new podcast All's Fair. Hi, Laura, 5 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: thanks so much. That's my pleasure. I have nothing else 6 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: to do. Well, you know that's not true, but we 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: do appreciate you being here. Um, can you tell us 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself for the listeners and about 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: your podcast. Yes. So, I am a family law attorney, 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: which is kind of a euphemism for a divorce attorney 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: here in southern California, and I've been practicing for over 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: twenty years. And in two thousand eighteen, we launched an 13 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: online divorce website because the firm represent and lots of 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: famous rich people, and I thought it might be nice 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: to be able to have a platform where people that 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily rich could go and learn about family law, divorce, custody, cohabitation, um, 17 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: child and spousal support, and also be able to get 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: divorced online for likes instead of a hundred and fifty 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. And then as a result of having that platform, 20 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: it's over easy. We were asked to do a podcast 21 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: all about relationships. So it's called All's Fair, like All's 22 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: Fair in love and war, and we talk about breakups 23 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: and makeups and hookups and partnerships and all that really 24 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Yes, yes, very interesting and full disclaimer, neither 25 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: Samantha nor I are married, have ever been married. I 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: have been asked before, but that is a story for 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: another day. Yes, yes I am, um, But so for 28 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: someone and like us, or even someone who just has 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: no idea, UM, can you kind of walk us through 30 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: the process of like, what does a divorce? What is 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: that like? Wait? I do want to add the caveat 32 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: though I have read a many a tabloid stories, which 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: I think you may have had from part of it, 34 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: I didn't have part of any of the stories. I 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: might have been representing one of the people that they 36 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: were writing about. But besides that, I'm a part of 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: that breakups, that's for sure. I just helped them legally 38 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: extricate themselves. I was gonna say that means you're a 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: legend and we stay keep going. Fair enough, thank you, Samantha. 40 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: So I mean, look, divorce sucks, there's no question about it. 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: And I do find that, Um, the divorce rate is 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: going down. They're saying as a result of this pandemic, 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: it might actually go up. But I'm not totally sure 44 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: that I believe that, and I'll tell you why in 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: a second. But the divorce rate is going down. And 46 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: one of the main reasons the divorce rates going down, 47 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: at least in the United States, is that people are 48 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: getting married either later or not at all. And I 49 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: totally feel that I've got two kids. I wasn't married 50 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: to either their dads. I'm not with either of their 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: dads anymore either. But marriage is an institution that I'm 52 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: sure works for some people. We definitely embrace it in 53 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: our country, and it's never been something that necessarily like 54 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: worked for me. I got married for about five minutes 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: when I was twenty five, beautiful, gorgeous, big wedding. It 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: was great, and fourteen months later I was like, oh, really, 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: did we really do that. I don't have any regrets. 58 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, and I didn't have kids with him, 59 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: and we're still like friendly, But I just don't know 60 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: that it's necessary for everybody, and for those that it 61 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: is necessary, I would just say, really, really know that 62 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: that is a contract that you're entering into when you 63 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: get married, because people talk about prenups and they're like, 64 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to prenup. It's a contract. Getting married 65 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: as a contract you have, like a contract with the 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: florist and the caterer and the string quartet and everybody. 67 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: But the contract that you enter into and you walked 68 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: down the aisle is like the most huge contract ever. 69 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: And if you don't know the law in your state 70 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: when you get married, you may not necessarily realize what 71 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: you're getting into because it's more than just the heart 72 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: and and being in love and having kids or whatever else. 73 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: It also affects your property. It affects your income and 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: your expenses and your assets, and of course, if you 75 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: do have kids, it affects custody. So if you're gonna 76 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: have a child with somebody, you're pretty much gonna have 77 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: to be dealing with this person for the rest of 78 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: your life. Know all of that before you get married, 79 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: and if things don't work out and you have to 80 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: get divorced, it won't be easy on your heart, but 81 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: it might be easier on your head and on your 82 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: bank account, because it shouldn't cut the money that I 83 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: see people spending getting divorced, arguing you know about a 84 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: coaster is ridiculous, and I, um, I see it firsthand 85 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: because I am a family law attorney. I charged nine 86 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: d and fifty dollars an hour. You better be giving 87 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: some good game advice. Sorry to beleeve that, Sorry Andrew, 88 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: but it just seemed is to me that if we 89 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: kind of change the way we approached marriage in our country, 90 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: we would then absolutely need to change the way we 91 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: approach divorce. As I said, I've got two kids. I'm 92 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: really tight with both of their dads. During this pandemic, 93 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: we've all been able to get along. Luckily, we live close. Luckily, 94 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: we've all been on the same page communication and consideration 95 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: wise about how we are social distancing from others and 96 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: keeping things clean so our kids go back and forth. Um, 97 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: I know it's possible to have an amicable dissolution, whether 98 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: it's a divorce or just to break up. And so 99 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: that's all. That's my whole gig is just talking about 100 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: it and trying to make it easier for people. Yeah, 101 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: and one of your whole things is reframing divorce. Um, 102 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: so can you talk about that and how do we 103 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: reframe it? Yeah? I mean, I'm not a divorce monger. 104 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: I'm not saying like, hey, if you're like happily in 105 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: a relationship, go out and meet somebody else at a 106 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: bar and mix it up a little bit. But I 107 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: do find, and I've been doing this a long time, 108 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: both in life and as a profession, that most human 109 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: beings don't mate for life. And so the question is, 110 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: can we get together, can we have shared awesome experiences, 111 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: can we find love? And again, can we also commit 112 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: to having and raising children together without necessarily being together 113 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: till death to us part? And so to reframe it, 114 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, hey, we had this amazing time, 115 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: We've got these amazing memories, we probably are always going 116 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: to know each other and frankly be family together, And 117 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: how do we now move on to the next chapter 118 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: of our lives with each other in our lives but 119 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: not getting into the same bad every night and being 120 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: each other's significant other. And I do think it's possible. 121 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: I don't think it's too new. Ag I'm older than 122 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: you guys. I know that it works, and I think 123 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: if the next generation approach things like that, we'd have 124 00:06:53,200 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: healthier kids growing up. So what is your job entail, 125 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: but it's like a typical kind of day for you. Well, 126 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: there's a lot of kind of psychotherapy involved in it, 127 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: which I'm probably Yeah, yeah, am I wondering if that's true. Yeah. 128 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: One of my clients just said to me, I got 129 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: an email from him this morning because we were up 130 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: late last night kind of talking through some things. I 131 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: also do mediation, so I work with he and his 132 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: wife and they're already divorced, but they were having some 133 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: issues surrounding this whole COVID nineteen and she really felt 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: like he wasn't doing enough to keep the kids from 135 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: possibly contracting or even being carriers of the virus. And 136 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: then when they came back to her house, she's got 137 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: an elderly mom that lives with her, and she was like, dude, 138 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: I don't want them going back and forth if you 139 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: can't really really guarantee. So we had this long conversation 140 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: and this morning he was like, you're like a therapist, 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: you're you know, and particularly during these days of total 142 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: uncertainty in a lot of ways, I am, because we 143 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: not really a will to get into the courts right now, 144 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: only domestic violence cases are really being heard in family courts. 145 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: Across the country. We do a lot of stuff by 146 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: virtue of private judges, and so those guys like will 147 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: actually get on the phone or on a zoom call 148 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: with us. I was saying, you know, I had one 149 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: with a judge the other day that was like at 150 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: his kitchen table in a soccer jersey and the wife 151 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: was coming in the background and getting stuff out of 152 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: the bridge, and he actually made a determination about modification 153 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: of support. But for the most part, you can't do 154 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: anything except kind of talk to people about being reasonable 155 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: and being kind to someone who, like I said, it's 156 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: going to be in your life forever. So there's a 157 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: lot of phone calls, there's a lot of emails. When 158 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: the courts were open, I would probably go to court 159 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: maybe once or twice a week to deal with some 160 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: skirmish about their custody or support or division of assets. UM. 161 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time working on the startup 162 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: the It's over Easy platform, So taking what I've learned 163 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: over twenty plus years in this industry and kind of 164 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: applying it to more people, and again people that are 165 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: likely to get divorced online and are going to be 166 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: younger people because they're more comfortable online and they're you know, 167 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: they use Turbo tax, they use you know, bumble or 168 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: match dot com. They do stuff online, they bank online, 169 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: so they're comfortable with the idea of gleaning information online, 170 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: finding out what the law is, reaching out for some 171 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: help via video chat or something, and then being able 172 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: to apply it to their situations. So we've done a 173 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: lot with that over the past couple of years. That's 174 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: a big part of my day and having team meetings UM. Lately, 175 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of public speaking, whether it be 176 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: by zoom or webinar, talking to mostly women, but men 177 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: and women about these feelings of uncertainty and isolation. We 178 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: did a video UM at the end of last year 179 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: about next chapters and moving on, and we had people 180 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: that were really great at meditating, and people that don't 181 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: dealt with finance, and people that dealt with like, you know, 182 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: beauty and health, and people that dealt with you know, 183 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: child custody and what's the best way to talk to 184 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: kids after a breakup. So we have that that's out. 185 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: I mean, really, like I said, just trying to give 186 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: a little bit back and make it so that we 187 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: so that we've effectuated some kind of change. We call 188 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: it the evolution of dissolution. I love it, like the 189 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: Diso Queen. Correct, that is one of those Yeah, tmz, 190 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm the Diso Queen. It's kind of a dubious a 191 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: dubious honor. Actually, it's like, you know, the Queen of 192 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: death or something like that. But well, you know, speaking 193 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: of a lot of listeners do right in and they 194 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: say they describe these feelings of failure and of loss 195 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: of identity when they go through divorce, like especially if 196 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: you see the name like I have to change the 197 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: name everywhere. And do you have any advice for for 198 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: those listeners going through experiencing those kinds of things? Yeah, 199 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: I think you need to experience them. Frankly, I think 200 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: you need to grieve and sit with it for a minute. 201 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: And if you do, I think it's probably easier than 202 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: to move on. And you do have to move on. 203 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I'm older. I know a 204 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: lot of divorce women, a lot of divorce moms, whether 205 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: they're in school, you know, with my kids or whatever, 206 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: and that look you know that divorce mom. Look you 207 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: don't want to have that look, like feel the upset, 208 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: whether you got cheated on, whether there wasn't the money 209 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: you thought, whatever bummer it was to be splitting up, 210 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: or whether it just kind of ran its course and 211 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: you guys grew in different directions and then move on, 212 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: because if you're not dead yet, you have an opportunity 213 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: to kind of recreate yourself and and life for the 214 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: most part is good. You know, you talk about changing 215 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: the name. Fewer and fewer people are actually taking their 216 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: spouses name these days, or if they are, they're hyphenating it. 217 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: I never took my spouse's name for the five minutes 218 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: that we are married, and you don't have to change 219 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: your name, like my mom and my dad were married, 220 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: I think till I was sixteen or seventeen. She kept 221 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: her name because she wanted to have the same last 222 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: name as her kids. A name is just a name. 223 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: It's what you actually feel and what you do and 224 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: what you accomplished. And I know a bunch of people 225 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: who have really embraced the idea of starting their next 226 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: chapter and growing and evolving um as a result of 227 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: ending that relationship or ending the way it was in 228 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: its current form and moving on to something new. We 229 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: have some more of an interview with Laura, but first 230 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: we have a quick break for words from our sponsor, 231 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So we've kind of 232 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: been dancing around this our quarantine times as we come 233 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: to you from our home studios a lot already. Um 234 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: have you So you mentioned that you don't think divorce 235 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: is actually going to go up as a result of this. Look, 236 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: we saw what the statistics were from China that there 237 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: was a huge spike as soon as their quarantine ended, 238 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: and I got, like, you know, four thousand phone calls 239 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: from news organizations asking me to comment on it, and 240 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: I'm like, Hi, don't know. I mean, how long does 241 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: it take to get divorced in China? I feel it 242 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: must be an easier process than it is in the 243 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: United States because there were so many in such a 244 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: short period of time. Also, remember there whatever they call 245 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: them divorce offices, their divorce courts or registry was closed 246 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: for two or three months, so even those people who 247 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: had been in line to get a divorce before they 248 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 1: got knocked out. So you had all those people, then 249 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: you have the people that have been quarantined. And then 250 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: I also read a really interesting statistic which is that 251 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: almost immediately after all of those divorces spiked. A bunch 252 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: of those people got remarried because they were probably like, 253 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: wait a minute, but now that I'm not like cooped 254 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: up with him in the house, I can deal with 255 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: him again. So I think, look and and I've seen 256 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: all the jokes and the post on Instagram about how 257 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, it is absolutely difficult to be cooped up 258 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: with anybody for a certain period of time. I'm sure 259 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: my kids would love to be able to divorce me 260 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: when this is over. But once it's done and we're 261 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: through it, life goes back to normal. So keep that 262 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: in mine. The other thing is I have actually now 263 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: what is it three three weeks in four weeks in 264 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: heard from a lot of people who are saying, like, 265 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: once we got like our boundaries set, once we got 266 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: a routine going, Once this became our new normal, and 267 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: especially since we kept in mind that it was a 268 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: temporary new normal, we really started enjoying each other. We 269 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: really started being able to communicate on a deeper level. 270 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: We actually were forced to address some of the issues 271 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: that were in our relationship. It wasn't fun, it was 272 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: kind of messy, but we didn't have anything else to do, 273 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: so we kind of delved into it and we're getting 274 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: along even better. And so without sounding totally like everything 275 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: is unicorns and rainbows and flowers, because I don't think 276 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: the disc queen should sound like that, I will say 277 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: that I think there is an upside to this, There 278 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: is a silver lining to this, and if we make 279 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: the best of it, I think you may see people 280 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: come out of their relationships with a better deeper understanding 281 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: of each other than they had before. Well, I definitely 282 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: would agree with you. I'm kind of in a I'm 283 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: definitely a relationship. Wow. No, it definitely was like we 284 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: had a big argument and we've kind of grown from 285 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: it and definitely brought us closer together, which is as 286 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: a person who is somewhat scented in relationships, I've talked 287 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: to many of facts of like I don't understand it completely, 288 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: and I've had to survey my friends, what is this 289 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: relationship thing? I don't understand this level of commitment and 290 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: wanting to stay when you're annoyed by something like why 291 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't you automatically leave? I don't get it. But putting 292 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,359 Speaker 1: it ourselves into this quarantine lifestyle kind of like, oh, 293 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: this is kind of nice to be able to go 294 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: through something with somebody and share an experience with somebody. 295 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: And as I was joking about the fact that we 296 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: have to stand because you are the diso queen, which, 297 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: by the way, are you okay with that title? Do 298 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: you like that title? You know? I I you will 299 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: see this, ladies, at a certain age. You just there's 300 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: something called acceptance. Like for years, my initials are law 301 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: Laura Allison Wanser. And for years I fought it. And 302 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: then when I hit forty, I was like, oh, just 303 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: go with they get a couple of monograms, just go 304 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: with it. And then for like probably the first I 305 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: don't know, three or four years that they were calling 306 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: me the diso queen. I mean, nobody else calls me 307 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: that except for if they're joking around on an interview 308 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: or something like this. But I certainly wouldn't get like 309 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: a personal as a license plate saying it or anything. 310 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: I'm not proud of it, but I've just accepted it. 311 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: It is what it is. I mean, I guess there's 312 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: worse things to be called. I was gonna say, sminthy 313 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: may have to do a gift that says diss so queen. 314 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: We must stand. But when you see because we were. 315 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: I was kind of joking about the fact that because 316 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: you do have a list on your resume of high 317 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: profile UH trials and divorce cases, do you see a 318 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: difference in between that and the norm of people. Is 319 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: there a different level of how you handle it and 320 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: how you kind of approach things. Not really, I mean, 321 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: besides the media and having to say, like, hey, if 322 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: we're going into a custody case, maybe going to the 323 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: club totally wasted not the best idea because you you 324 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: were me going. Nobody cares that person going. They're going 325 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: to take video of him or her coming out. It's 326 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: gonna be on t m Z or whatever else. So 327 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: besides the media of it all, and the fact that 328 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: when we file things, at least in the state of 329 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: California and I think most states, they're public, and so 330 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: any mud that you sling that you want to judge 331 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: to read and make a determination is also going to 332 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: be reported and whatever it is, whether seven media like 333 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: online or even if it's in you know, the New 334 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: York Times. But for that, they're just like us. They 335 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: have the same levels of sadness and fear and anxiety. 336 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: They want to make sure their kids are gonna be okay. 337 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: They want to know if they're gonna be okay. And again, 338 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: it's all relative. Is it a matter of whether or 339 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: not I'm going to be living in my car or 340 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: my you know, fifty five thousand square foot mansion. Is 341 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: it Who's going to go to the company labor day 342 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: picnic with me? Or who am I going to walk 343 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: down the red carpet with at the oscars? It's all relative, 344 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: but it really is the same. And I do I 345 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: think divorce is the great equalizer. Relationships are the great equalizers, 346 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: and so no, it is kind of astounding how those 347 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: super famous, glamorous people. I mean I've heard them say 348 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: things and tell stories where you're like, oh, that happened 349 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: to me too. I mean, it's the exact same thing. 350 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: And it really is an interesting study in human nature 351 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: how people really all kind of go through the similar process, right, 352 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: And that makes a lot of sense, it does it does. 353 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: I know, lately your name has gotten thrown around a 354 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: lot because people say marriage story. Laura Dern's character was 355 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: raised after you, and you kind of like, well that 356 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: character was an as sorry again, um. And And in fairness, 357 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: they I did know the people that made the movie Um, 358 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: the guy that wrote it and directed it. His wife 359 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: was actually a kind of mine, but his son and 360 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: my son got to school together, so he talked to 361 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: about it. I represented Laura Dern when she got divorced 362 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: from Ben Harper, so we talked about it. And really, 363 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think what they were trying to do 364 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: is compile a caricature of attributes of some kind of 365 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: like a badass feminist divorce attorney. And they all said, 366 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: it's not you. It's not you that you know, they 367 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: had they had to be like a villain. You know, 368 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: she's I've had people call me and go, she was amazing. 369 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: I wish I had her, And I was like, she 370 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: was horrible, but she had good clothes, I'll give her that. 371 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: And her office looked a lot like my office, And um, 372 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: I think it's a My take on the whole thing 373 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: is that it was kind of a cautionary tale and 374 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: if you don't want what happened to them to happen 375 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: to you, except from the end, they did come out 376 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: of it, okay, and almost everyone does. In the end. 377 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: You come out of it okay. It's just how much 378 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: money and toxic energy you spend going through the process. 379 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: So if anybody watches that movie and takes away from 380 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: it like I don't want to hire a lawyer who's 381 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: going to try to like get me more than I 382 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: even want or need, or who's going to complicate things 383 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: and have a me have a terrible relationship with my ex, 384 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: then then they've done a good job because they've shown 385 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: people that this is not how it needs to be. 386 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: We have a little bit more for you listeners, but 387 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 1: first we have one more quick break for words from 388 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back. Thanks sponsored. Our audience is 389 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: mostly women, um, and it is about feminism. And I 390 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: was wondering if you have any observations you've picked up 391 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: or gleaned over the years, um, when it comes to 392 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: women and divorce, whether on both sides of it, like 393 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: on your side, the lawyer's side, and the person pursuing 394 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: it side. So I mean, I'll say this. When I 395 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: started practicing law in the early nineties, I was one 396 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: of the few women that did this. It was a 397 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: particularly in southern California. It was a field that was 398 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: mostly reserved for older men, and my dad was a 399 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: family attorney. So that's why I went into it because 400 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: it was right around the time I was getting the 401 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: results of the bar exam, and I had been working 402 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: for a nonprofit and my husband at the time and 403 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: I split up and I needed money, so I went 404 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: to my dad said can I come work for you? 405 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: So I got into it, And because I had grown 406 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: up in this town and because I did know a 407 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: lot of people, I was able to kind of establish 408 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: a client list and became a rainmaker at the firm. 409 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: But a lot of times we would go to court, 410 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: and frankly still because a lot of those guys are 411 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: still practicing there in their seventies and eighties, and we'll 412 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: go to court and I'll be standing in the the next 413 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: this old guy who, like, you know, look mad respect. 414 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: He's been doing it forever. I get it. But like now, 415 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: I've been doing it forever too, And I can still 416 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: hear so if I like talk softly, the judge can 417 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: hear me. But but my, my, my opposing counsel can't 418 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: hear me. There is was still some chauvinism going on. 419 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: There was still like oh honey, sit down, you know um, 420 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: And I always kind of just went with the work 421 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: ethic of I'm gonna know everything about my case. I'm 422 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: gonna listen to a judge and and watch what he 423 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: or she is doing up on the bench, and often 424 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: we would prevail just as a result of like not 425 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: thinking that we were so great and whatever. And so 426 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: now in this field, there's a lot more women that practice. 427 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of women that practice at my firm 428 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: because we've expanded and I've made it so that there's 429 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: better maternity leave and all that kind of stuff, because 430 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: I think it's really important in terms of women divorced generally, 431 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: what I've seen over the past ten fifteen years is 432 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: there's so many more women breadwinners. And again a lot 433 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: in California, a lot in Los Angeles, a lot in 434 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry. So I'll have a woman come in 435 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: and she'll go, you know, we both went to college 436 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: and we were superstars, and we were this great couple. 437 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: And now for the past fifteen years, he's kind of 438 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: been on the couch and his boxers, writing a script 439 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: or writing an album, and I'm working my butt off, 440 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: and I'm still paying for nanny's and I'm still doing 441 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: the play dates, and I'm still arranging everything for the 442 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: school parent teacher conferences. So I want out and I'll go, great, 443 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: let's see how much do you make and what do 444 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: you have? And then I tell her, okay, so you're 445 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: gonna have to give half of everything, including your retirement, 446 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: to him, and then you're probably gonna have to pay 447 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: him spousal support and possibly child support along with the 448 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: nanny who you're still paying. And she's like, I don't understand. 449 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm the mom, And I said, yeah, but you know 450 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: the laws blind when it comes to gender. You're the breadwinner, 451 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to pay him. And she's like, I 452 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: came in here to get this albatross off from around 453 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: my neck and you're basically telling me I'm still gonna 454 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: be paying him just as much. And I'm like, yeah, 455 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: but you can sleep with somebody else now, and she's like, okay, 456 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: there is that. So we are seeing a lot if 457 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: people still don't really realize. Again, like I said at 458 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: the beginning of the show, if you are getting married, 459 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: you're entering into a contract, and it doesn't matter if 460 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: you have a penis or vagina. If you're the one 461 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: making more money, you are the one who is going 462 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: to be ending up paying the support. To keep an 463 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: eye on that throughout your relationship. And the other thing 464 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: is kind of like, always know the financial situation, whether 465 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: you're the breadwinner or not, if it's a dual income family. 466 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: I have a lot of women. We as women seem 467 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: to not be as down with the numbers and the finances, 468 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: and so even if we are the breadwinners, will let 469 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: somebody else take control of the checkbook and the bank accounts. 470 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: And certainly when we're not the breadwinners, he will often say, 471 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: let me do it. It's my money, I make it, 472 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: I'll share it with you. It's fine. But I've had 473 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: women the most glamorous, sophisticated. They could get a reservation 474 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: at any restaurant in town. They've got their own personal 475 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: shopper and Nemon Marcus and Barney's when it still existed, 476 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: and they'll come in and go, I'm so embarrassed. I 477 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: have no idea what we have. I have no idea 478 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: what he makes. I don't even have a credit card 479 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: that's in my own account. It just is my name 480 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: on his black card. So one thing I would say 481 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: to young people, all people getting married, but particularly women, 482 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: even though it's not the most sexy or interesting, make 483 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: sure you know where the bodies are buried with the finances. 484 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: If you are wealthy and you guys have a business 485 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: manager an accountant, get in there once a week and 486 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 1: or a month or a year, but find out you have. 487 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: You know, there should be a certain amount of transparency 488 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: about the finances so that you're never in the situation 489 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: that I see so many clients and where they're really 490 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: kind of starting from scratch and learning all about it. Yeah. 491 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: Actually that kind of brings me to a different question. Um, 492 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: when we talk about a lot of marriage situations and 493 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: and then we talk about domestic violence and abuse, what 494 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: would your advice be for women who are trying to 495 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: seek away out that are in an abusive situation, who 496 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: may be financially manipulated as well as emotionally and physically. 497 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: That's when I would actually seek counsel. Those are the 498 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: few people that I think really do need counsel, and 499 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: there are low cost options. I mean, first of all, 500 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: get out of there. If you're being abused, you need 501 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: to get out. And as I said, even with this pandemic, 502 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: courts across the country are still open for individuals who 503 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: need to get out of a domestic violence situation or 504 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: actually get their partner about out if they're perpetrating domestic violence, 505 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: and then you can you know, live in the house, 506 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: the apartment, whatever, without being in fear for your for 507 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: your safe, to you, your kids. And then thereafter there 508 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: will be there must be in every jurisdiction, every state 509 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: in the US, there has to be full disclosure as 510 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: you are filing for divorce, so you will find out 511 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: the information that you may not have known during the relationship. 512 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: You'll find out what your spouse or partner earns, what 513 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: kind of assets there are that must be disclosed, and 514 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: then at that point you'll have a better handle, even 515 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: if it's not a ton of money, of how you're 516 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: going to pay the rent on the apartment, and how 517 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: you're going to buy food for the kids, and you know, 518 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: when the kids go back to school. I would get 519 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: into the workforce. I mean, I'm look, I'm from a 520 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: generation that my mom worked. I work. My kids see 521 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: a working mom. I think it's really important that we 522 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: all keep our foot in the door of the workforce 523 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: if you can. And again, I think it's possible in 524 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: this day and age with the kind of daycare opportunities 525 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: we have, preschool opportunities, we have I had two kids 526 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: while I was a lawyer. While I was practicing. I'll 527 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: also say this, when I was pregnant both times could 528 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: not lose in court. People would send me to apartments 529 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: for their crisis that I had nothing to do with. 530 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: Because when I was pregnant, I couldn't lose. They're probably 531 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: afraid I was gonna my water was gonna break. Allays 532 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: in there, They're like, yes, miss Wasser, whatever it is 533 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: you're asking for, just please leave, Please leave the courthouse. 534 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: Please don't get barth just go. Are there any other 535 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: changes you've noticed during um COVID nineteen. I mean, we've 536 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: had a lot of questions about shared custody, people wanting 537 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: to change their custody schedules because one or the other 538 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: was worried. Obviously, this has been kind of the spring 539 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: break period, so if kids were traveling to different you know, 540 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: states to see their other parents, that's had to be curtailed. 541 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: So we've ended up doing a lot of these kind 542 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: of zoom conferences FaceTime Skype, because I think it's important, 543 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: even if you're not able to be with your kids, 544 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: that your kids are able to see you for a 545 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: certain period of time each day. Depending on their ages 546 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: and their their verbal abilities and stuff like that. Uh, 547 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: and then we've seen a real rush to try to 548 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: modify support. I mean people are not working. I've got 549 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: a lot of touring musicians, I've got a lot of athletes, 550 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: and they're like, how am I supposed to pay the 551 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: support when I am not making any money? And I 552 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: will say, totally sucks, totally get it. But again, you 553 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: can't just cut it off. This is a person who's 554 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: depending on the support each month. We have to come 555 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: to a reasonable solution to this. She can't go out 556 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: and get a job right now anyway. Maybe she was 557 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: sitting around eating bond bonds before, but no one's working 558 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: right now. How do we handle this in a way 559 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: that makes the most sense and isn't going to cost you, again, 560 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: the most money or the most toxic energy. Because it's 561 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: not good for your kids. If they're worrying that their 562 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: mom's not going to get a check next month and 563 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: there's not gonna be any food on the table, that's 564 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: not good for them, right What would your advice be 565 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: for people who were who were in the middle of 566 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: trying to get divorced and trying to get their place 567 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: but now are stuck. I mean, just kind of chill, 568 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: roll with it, realize that this. You know, I've had 569 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: so many clients and again, maybe one other difference about 570 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: representing wealthy people is that a lot of them just 571 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: feel like this pandemic is happening to them. I'm like, Okay, well, 572 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: it's not living in your car. I mean, but I 573 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, this might, like I said, with 574 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: people who are happily married and now going through some 575 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: of the difficulties of quarantine, even if you're in the 576 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: middle of getting divorced. I mean, I'm talking to clients 577 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: every day. I'm trying to get them on some kind 578 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: of therapy, you know, whether it's online or with somebody 579 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: that they can talk to on the phone. You kind 580 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: of got to roll through it. I read a really 581 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: good article last week by a woman who they had 582 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: just broken up. They had just broken they had rented 583 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: an apartment and then together, and she found out that 584 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: he was cheating on her. So she was like, forget it. 585 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: She went there, she packed up all of her stuff, 586 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: she left. Two days later. We had the shelter in place, 587 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: and she didn't have anywhere else to be for the quarantine. 588 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: And she couldn't rent another place. It was an expensive 589 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: Manhattan Lee's. So she went back. And now they're living together. 590 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: And the first few days, she said, were really rough. 591 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 1: She said, I'm never getting back together with him, but 592 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: we're kind of we're friends. I liked him at one point. 593 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: We can't afford to different places, particularly now, she said. 594 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: I still get up and get dressed every morning, not 595 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: only just to kind of give myself a sense of purpose, 596 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: but also so that he can see that I'm how 597 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: hot I am and what he's gonna be missing when 598 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: this is over. And she said, and I'm not going 599 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: to like fall into the trap of like fooling around 600 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: with him. But we playboard games, We do have a 601 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: glass of wine at night together, and I and he 602 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: is a friend. And hopefully when this is all over, 603 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: one of two things will happen. Either will part ways, 604 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: will never see each other again, but we'll remember this 605 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: period of time has been kind of an interesting, weird, 606 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, blip on the radar. Or two we will 607 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: still end up being good friends and will introduce new 608 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: perspective partners to each other and whatever, because we will 609 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: have grown closer. It's like those movies where two people 610 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: get stuck in an elevator together for a certain period 611 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: of time and then they go their separate ways. So, look, 612 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: we're all in this together. We got to get through 613 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: it together. It's gonna it's gonna happen, um, And this 614 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: is a really interesting time in the history of human kind. 615 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: So we kind of just kind of look at the 616 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: bigger picture of it and and move through. It's not 617 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: it's awkward, no question about it. Awkward to be getting 618 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: divorced in the middle of a pandemic. Yeah, I would agree, 619 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: it's awkward for a lot of us. Okay, well, thank 620 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: you so much. Are there any closing thoughts before we 621 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: give you space to tell the listeners were to find? Yes, um, 622 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: closing thoughts, just do remember that we are in this together, 623 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: and there are plenty of I've seen online ways to 624 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: reach out if you're feeling isolated, if you're feeling scared, 625 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: if you're feeling like you need to connect and use 626 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: this time to hopefully do something that it feels good. 627 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be your most productive moment, but 628 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: hopefully there will be kind of a calm that overcomes you. Maybe, 629 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: like I said at day twenty five, or something that 630 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: will enable you to be better when we come out 631 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: of this, because we will come out of it. I 632 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: don't know when, but we will come out and we're 633 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: going to need to be armed with some pretty interesting 634 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: new tools to deal with whatever the next chapter is. 635 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: So those would be my words of wisdom, so to speak. 636 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: Awesome love it um. Yeah, So thank you so much 637 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: for joining us. Can you tell the listeners where they 638 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: can find you? Yes, so I'm on my heart also 639 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: at All's Fair with Laura Wasser. I am on Instagram 640 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: at Laura Wasser Official or It's over Easy. We have 641 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: two accounts. It's over Easy is the blog that we 642 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: have all the information you could ever want about relationships, breakups, 643 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: whatever it is. In your state. We are national. If 644 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: you are considering getting divorced, please look us up because 645 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: it's for everything. And there's also a great index with 646 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: referrals for all kinds of people who can help you 647 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: through the process and after the process. And yeah, check 648 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: us out. We'd love having input from people on any 649 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: of those platforms, especially younger people, especially people that are 650 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: kind of interested in how maybe I wouldn't say a 651 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: full generation, but maybe people ten fifteen years ahead of 652 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: you guys in this how we're kind of just bumbling 653 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: through it the same as you all are. So that 654 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: brings us to the end of our interview with Laura Um. 655 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you listeners. How's your 656 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: relationship status during this quarantine? By the way, I had 657 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: no idea law Darn and Ben Harper had been a couple, 658 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: they were married. That completely just blew my mind. So 659 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: how far behind are you and the pop culture trend? Then? 660 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: How far behind does that make you? Real? Real far? 661 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: I love it you're getting Bob from like what that's 662 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: that was your take of that moment? I'm like what. 663 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: We would love, love love to hear from your listeners. 664 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at 665 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: I heart media dot com. You can find us on 666 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You or on Twitter 667 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our superproducer 668 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've 669 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: Never Told You, the production of I Heart Radio. For 670 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit diheart Radio app, 671 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite ship. 672 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: You know