WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The Mpemba Effect

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. Josh here, chuck here,

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<v Speaker 1>giddy up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're going to tell you in part about a

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<v Speaker 2>remarkable young teenager in Tanzania in the nineteen sixties, and

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<v Speaker 2>his name was Rasto im Pimba.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it Impemba, It's in Pimpa, Okay. The reason why

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about Rasto and Pemba today is because he

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<v Speaker 1>was a pretty remarkable kid. He stumbled upon I guess

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<v Speaker 1>you could say rediscovered a concept that just baffles physicists

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<v Speaker 1>today because it doesn't make any sense, it may violate

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<v Speaker 1>the second law of thermodynamics. And it ended up being

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<v Speaker 1>named after him because he was a persistent little cuss

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<v Speaker 1>who made this observation and just kept going until he

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<v Speaker 1>finally got the ear of somebody who could help him

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<v Speaker 1>try to figure it out.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the first law of thermodynamics is you don't

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<v Speaker 2>talk about thermo dynamics.

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking about that movie the other day. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, I used to be so into that, and

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<v Speaker 1>now I'm so juvenile.

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<v Speaker 3>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>I almost put it on the other day as a

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<v Speaker 2>laundry folding movie, which I like to do just to

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<v Speaker 2>see parts of And I.

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<v Speaker 3>Had the same thought. I was like, I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>if I just even want to go down that road again.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because it exists happily in the past, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what I mean exactly? I heard at the premiere Brad

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<v Speaker 1>Pitt leaned over to Edward Norton and said, I'll never

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<v Speaker 1>be in a movie this cool again, And he was right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he was. So. Yeah, we're talking about Arresto

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<v Speaker 1>and Pemba because he discovered what's called the Mpemba effect

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<v Speaker 1>after him, and I think I said earlier that he

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<v Speaker 1>rediscovered it. It was first noticed by Aristotle, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least it was first written about all the way back

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<v Speaker 1>to Aristotle. Medieval scientist Roger Bacon mentioned it as well,

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<v Speaker 1>so did the Enlightenment philosopher Renee des Cartes. And what

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<v Speaker 1>they all noticed and what Erastom and Pemba got his

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<v Speaker 1>his name attached to, is that hot liquids placed in

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<v Speaker 1>a freezer can freeze faster than cool liquids placed in

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<v Speaker 1>the same freezer at the same time. It makes no

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<v Speaker 1>sense whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he discovered this as a thirteen year old. He

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<v Speaker 2>was in class in Tanzania and they were making in

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<v Speaker 2>school and they were making ice cream as a class.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that was for fun or if

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<v Speaker 2>it was part of science. I like to think it's

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<v Speaker 2>part of science. But regardless, he you know, they added

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<v Speaker 2>sugar to the boiling fresh milk. You let it cool,

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<v Speaker 2>you put it in a container, you put it in

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<v Speaker 2>the freezer. They were doing this again another day. I

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<v Speaker 2>bet they just like it ice cream now, then I

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<v Speaker 2>think about it. Sure, he was like, Hey, the freezer

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<v Speaker 2>space is getting low, and I want to make my

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<v Speaker 2>special ice cream. So he's like, I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>let this stuff cool down. I'm just going to go

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<v Speaker 2>grab that spot while it's available. And an hour and

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<v Speaker 2>a half later he was like, hey, everybody, my ice

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<v Speaker 2>cream is ready before yours.

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<v Speaker 3>In your face.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he said, but that doesn't make any sense

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<v Speaker 1>because I put that hot milk in, so why would

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<v Speaker 1>mine have frozen at all? And he went to his teacher,

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<v Speaker 1>and his teacher said, I got too much to deal with,

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<v Speaker 1>so you run along, Rasto.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm not curious like you.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and Erasto was undeterred over the years. Teacher after

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<v Speaker 1>teacher as he made his way through middle school and

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<v Speaker 1>the high school, he would talk to them about this

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<v Speaker 1>discovery and he was dismissed by all of them. And

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<v Speaker 1>then finally, one day at his high school, a physicist

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<v Speaker 1>who was a visiting physicist to the University of Darus Salam.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a British guy named Dennis Osborne. He came

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<v Speaker 1>to give a lecture and Rasto and Pemba saw his

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<v Speaker 1>chance and said, Professor Osborne, I've got something that may

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<v Speaker 1>knock your socks off. Check this out, do.

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<v Speaker 2>You think In the teacher's lounge over the years, everyone

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<v Speaker 2>was like, hey, has and Pimba hit.

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<v Speaker 3>You up about this ice cream business.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're all drinking wine and rolling, so annoying.

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<v Speaker 3>All the scientific curiosity out of this kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I know. Luckily, Dennis Osbourne was like, ooh, I like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk a little more about it.

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<v Speaker 2>He likes this kid, and they he invited him in

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<v Speaker 2>to you know, to perform experiments to see if it worked.

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<v Speaker 2>And then by nineteen sixty nine, I guess Impemba is

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen years old. By this point, they had written a

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<v Speaker 2>paper on this phenomenon and he was like, hey, buddy,

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<v Speaker 2>we got a name after you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which I'm sure he was like, heckynah, let's take

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<v Speaker 1>a break and we'll talk a little more about the

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<v Speaker 1>Impemba effect itself. How about that, right, Okay, Chuck. So,

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that the Mpemba effect is so strange is because,

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<v Speaker 1>according to the laws of thermae dynamics, molecules that are

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<v Speaker 1>moving much faster than other molecules in say, like a

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<v Speaker 1>hot liquid and a cold liquid, they take longer to

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<v Speaker 1>slow down. And part of the very process of slowing

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<v Speaker 1>down temperature, by the way, as a measurement of the

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<v Speaker 1>excitement or movement of molecules in a substance, right, part

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<v Speaker 1>of the process of slowing down is that it takes time.

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<v Speaker 1>So it makes no sense intuitively, but also according to

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<v Speaker 1>the laws of physics that a hot liquid with faster

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<v Speaker 1>moving molecules could get to the point of freezing faster

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<v Speaker 1>than a cooler liquid with slower moving molecules, because they're

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<v Speaker 1>both trying to get to the point where they stop

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<v Speaker 1>moving in are solid blocks of ice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it would just make intuitive sense that something colder

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<v Speaker 2>and closer to that temperature would do it faster. You

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<v Speaker 2>can also observe this if you go out in Let's

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<v Speaker 2>say you live in Minneapolis and it's January. You go

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<v Speaker 2>outside with a cup of warm water and throw it

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<v Speaker 2>into the air. That will go into an icy mist

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<v Speaker 2>instantaneously if it's cold enough. If you do that same

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<v Speaker 2>thing with a glass of cold water, that won't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>No, yeah, are you serious?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you pulling my leg?

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<v Speaker 3>No?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that's I saw a video of it, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's what they say. Is another example that's really great.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have first hand experience because it doesn't get

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<v Speaker 3>that cold here.

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<v Speaker 1>Very cool though.

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 1>Instead, you can fry an egg on a sidewalk, am

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<v Speaker 1>I right? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess essentially a good analogy that I came

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<v Speaker 1>up with, That's why I think it's good is that

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<v Speaker 1>Erasso and Pemba basically found that there's a foot race

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<v Speaker 1>between like hot water and cold water, and that, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I screwed up my analogy already, Chuck, do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to take it?

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that there's a foot race, but one racer

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<v Speaker 2>has started sooner, yet the one behind gets there quicker,

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<v Speaker 2>even though they should supposedly be running at the same

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<v Speaker 2>rate of speed. This happens at braves games. Oh and

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, it's mister Freeze who they're racing.

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<v Speaker 3>Isn't that funny?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow. So they're clearly fans of the Mpemba effect.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a track, clearly a track guy dressed up as

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<v Speaker 2>mister Freeze and they let a person from the stands.

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<v Speaker 2>They bring him down in the outfield and they they

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<v Speaker 2>give them a pretty long, like a quarter of the

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<v Speaker 2>distance head start, and then mister Freeze starts and you

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<v Speaker 2>almost always lose. But a young woman the other day

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<v Speaker 2>beat mister Freeze and it was it's on YouTube. It's

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<v Speaker 2>very cool to watch because you could tell that she

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<v Speaker 2>knew what she was doing.

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<v Speaker 3>Nice because she was.

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<v Speaker 2>Not running that hard until mister Freeze went. She was

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<v Speaker 2>running at a decent clip. And then as soon as

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<v Speaker 2>they hit the timer for mister Freeze to start, she kicked.

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<v Speaker 3>It into the next gear wow and whipped him. It

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<v Speaker 3>was great.

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<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. I remember they used to have giant hammers

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<v Speaker 1>and rulers and stuff. Oh they started on depot racing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they have multiple whole races at Home Braves Games. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they got mister Freeze and they have the home

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<v Speaker 2>Depot hammer drill.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't remember what the third.

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<v Speaker 1>One was, so silly. I gotta go this year man.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've been to a few games. Well, let's go

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<v Speaker 3>they stink?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh really?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, the braves are terrible this year. It's very

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<v Speaker 3>big disappointment. But you know, what are you gonna do?

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<v Speaker 1>Or braves? So yeah, that was a great analogy, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>way to go.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks.

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<v Speaker 1>So it turns out that answering this weird problem has

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<v Speaker 1>been trickier than you'd think, Trickier than physicists thought. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because some physicists conducting experiments and the Mpemba effect have

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<v Speaker 1>shown yep, this is definitely a thing. Other experimenters have

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<v Speaker 1>not turned up any results, and they're like, no, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what you're talking about. And so the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that it happens under some cases and not others is

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<v Speaker 1>not only even weirder, it also suggests to dissenters. People

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<v Speaker 1>are like, there's no such thing as the Impemba effect. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's some variable that some experimenters aren't taking into effect.

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<v Speaker 1>It could be different mineral contents in the water. It

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<v Speaker 1>could be convection cells in the warmer water are causing

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<v Speaker 1>it to freeze faster. It could be that our freezers

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<v Speaker 1>work harder on warmer air than cooler air, so it'll

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<v Speaker 1>freeze faster in a freezer. They don't know, but they're like,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no such thing as the Impemba effect. It's really

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<v Speaker 1>just some mistaken variable in the experiments.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's also a long argument about this about what

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<v Speaker 2>freezing first actually means, Like you have to if you're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna do something like this, you got to agree what

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<v Speaker 2>that when you're technically freezing and who got there first.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not like mister Freeze running across that finish line

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<v Speaker 2>and hitting his chest to that tape.

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<v Speaker 3>No, that's obvious. So you got to agree on freeze first?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that? Like, hey, is it the first one to

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<v Speaker 2>reach thirty two degrees fahrenheit zero degree celsius if it

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<v Speaker 2>starts to form ice crystals, if it's good enough to

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<v Speaker 2>put in a cocktail without getting too water down. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna let you take MIT's engineering school response because

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<v Speaker 2>it was very actually, guys, and not at all helpful.

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<v Speaker 1>It totally was. There was a blog post by them

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<v Speaker 1>that basically said, all liquids freeze at the same rate

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<v Speaker 1>once they reach the freezing temperature, so no liquid can

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<v Speaker 1>technically freeze faster than another. And you got the impression

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<v Speaker 1>they really thought that they had solved the Impemba effect.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's not what we're talking about. Mit, No, the

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<v Speaker 3>one is talking about that.

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<v Speaker 1>No, the rest of the world is like, Nope, we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about if you put a warm cup of water

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<v Speaker 1>and a cool cup of water in a freezer at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, not once, what happens once they reach freezing.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you even if you say, okay, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, like we're going to use as the

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<v Speaker 1>milestone or the finish line, which of these things gets

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<v Speaker 1>to thirty two years farentheight or zero degrees celsius first

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<v Speaker 1>the freezing point. Yeah, there's still a big discrepancy in

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<v Speaker 1>how you track this kind of stuff. Yeah, and different

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<v Speaker 1>experimenters have been using essentially what you call like different stopwatches,

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<v Speaker 1>even though they're not actually standing there with a stopwatch.

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<v Speaker 1>And it wasn't until some researchers from Kyoto in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five basically figured out a measurement standard that any

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<v Speaker 1>lab could use to test the Mpemba effect. So now

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<v Speaker 1>all of these experiments are going to be comparing apples

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<v Speaker 1>to apples for results and hopefully we'll get to the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, this is the part that I think

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<v Speaker 2>is the coolest is that some researchers out there are like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess in principle, I agree that we're not noticing

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<v Speaker 2>some variable, but we feel like we've accounted for all

0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the variables and perhaps there might be some unknown variable

0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:44.319
<v Speaker 2>that we haven't discovered yet.

0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like some force or effect in nature that's just

0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.079
<v Speaker 1>undiscovered that we're seeing in the Mpemba effect. Yeah, I'd

0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 1>love that to you. So you might say, like, Okay,

0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.080
<v Speaker 1>aside from just science being curious and wanting to know

0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.439
<v Speaker 1>the answers to everything, like what's the point in studying

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.200
<v Speaker 1>the by effect? And I was very surprised to find

0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.360
<v Speaker 1>that there's a lot of reasons to understand this that

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:11.160
<v Speaker 1>just knowing how fluid dynamics or systems under fluid dynamics

0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:17.120
<v Speaker 1>relax or cool it would actually open up or overcome

0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.840
<v Speaker 1>a huge hurdle that quantum computing is facing right now.

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 1>They have to figure out how to get quibits, which

0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.760
<v Speaker 1>are the quantum computing version of ones and zeros and

0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 1>traditional computers back to their ground state as fast as possible.

0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 1>So if you can figure out how something like molecules

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.600
<v Speaker 1>stop moving faster than cool molecules, hot molecules. You might

0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.640
<v Speaker 1>be able to apply that to quantum computing, and that

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:41.880
<v Speaker 1>would be a huge leap.

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Forward for it, totally, Yeah, because cooling those things down

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 2>takes a lot of energy, and I want to do

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 2>an episode about the AI's environmental cost at some point soon.

0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Sure, you could also develop new sensors, new materials,

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 1>and at the base you could also make better freezers

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 1>and refrigerators.

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Too, Yeah, for sure.

0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.720
<v Speaker 2>As for Impimba himself, he overcame a lot of obstacles

0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.320
<v Speaker 2>to eventually have a nice long career as a game warden,

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.120
<v Speaker 2>and very sadly just passed away a couple of years

0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:16.720
<v Speaker 2>ago in twenty twenty three.

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.720
<v Speaker 1>But he was older, right, twenty Yes, seventy three.

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 3>That's not yeah, and it's not a bad life. But

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 3>our scientific curiosity had his off to you.

0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Sir, Yes, And that means short stuff is appen.

0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.080
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0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.360
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