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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 2: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 2: What do we have Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do big day here in DC where we

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Speaker 1: are expecting the former president Trump to appear in a

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Speaker 1: courthouse right here, not too far from the studios to

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Speaker 1: give you all of the details that about that and

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Speaker 1: everything that we know thus far.

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Speaker 3: Also some big economic news one of.

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Speaker 1: The major credit rating agencies downgrading the credit of the

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Speaker 1: United States of America. Will tell you about that, and

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Speaker 1: also about the Biden White House's reaction. We have reporting

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Speaker 1: on an interesting meeting between former President Obama and current

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Speaker 1: President Biden, with Obama apparently sounding the alarm that Trump

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Speaker 1: is a lot politically stronger than Democrats have maybe been thinking.

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Speaker 1: So we will take you inside all of that. And

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Speaker 1: we also have MSNBC kind of freaking out about the

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Speaker 1: Cornell West presidential bid and how black voters will do

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Speaker 1: for the Democratic Party, what they will do, who they will.

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Speaker 3: Vote for this year.

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Speaker 1: We've got some news from the New York Times even

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Speaker 1: they are admitting that the Ukraine counter offensive not going well.

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Speaker 1: And big sit down interview between Devin Archer. That's that

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Speaker 1: dude who was Hunter Biden's former business partner. He sat

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Speaker 1: down with Tucker Carlson. Very interesting stuff there and very

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Speaker 1: excited to have a panel joining us this morning. Both

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Speaker 1: sides of the case in terms of the Trump indictments.

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Speaker 1: We've got someone who says this is a violation of

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Speaker 1: free speech. They're going after him for wrong thing. We've

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Speaker 1: got someone who says, no, this is justified. So we'll

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Speaker 1: get into all of that and attempt to have a

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Speaker 1: very nuanced conversation about the legal analysis of these latest

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Speaker 1: Trump in Diamondcycer Before we get to any of that, though,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much to everyone who has been signing up

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Speaker 1: a reminder, we have been having more ads inserted even into.

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Speaker 3: The premium YouTube feeds.

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Speaker 1: point is through Spotify.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. Unfortunately, as we said, they reserve the

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Speaker 2: right to put ads on it, even though we don't

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Speaker 2: want them to. We select the option not to. They've

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Speaker 2: been doing it for some time, but it's especially gotten

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Speaker 2: worse in recent times. So yeah, if you want to

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Speaker 2: connect to Spotify, our customer service team has been doing

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Speaker 2: a great job Griffin as well, making sure that we're

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Speaker 2: connecting everybody to the Spotify feed if they want to.

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Speaker 2: That's also a good reminder you can watch the full

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Speaker 2: show in your Spotify app if you become a Premium member.

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Speaker 2: Breakingpoints dot Com also I thought we should mention this too.

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Speaker 2: I realized, Crystal, given our posting schedule, we've been posting

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Speaker 2: things on a different timeline these days. So if you

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Speaker 2: actually want to watch the full show, like right when

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Speaker 2: it comes out and not on a staggered schedule of

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Speaker 2: what our team thinks is appropriate for that day, just

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Speaker 2: sign up. You can become a premiu member. You can

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Speaker 2: watch it all at the exact same time. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: those are two important shout outs thank you to everybody

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Speaker 2: who has been signing up this week. It's been very

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Speaker 2: helpful in terms of being able to do snap coverage

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Speaker 2: what we were doing last week, booking some big guests

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Speaker 2: or working with down the pipeline, and then also of

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Speaker 2: course you know, with the studio and all of that.

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Speaker 2: So it's just really a testament to everything that you

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Speaker 2: guys have been helping us build and we just want

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Speaker 2: to thank you all again. Really can't thank you enough.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely all right, so let's get to the big news today, which,

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Speaker 1: as I said, former President Trump appearing in court once

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Speaker 1: again here in DC. Expectation is that we'll start at

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Speaker 1: four pm today. Let's put this up on the screen

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Speaker 1: from the Guardian headline here Donald Trump to appear in

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Speaker 1: court over attempt to overturn twenty twenty US election. They

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Speaker 1: give you a sense in this article. Let's go to

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Speaker 1: the next piece of exactly what to expect. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these are mostly perfunctory. We probably won't get anything particularly

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Speaker 1: new here.

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Speaker 3: They say. Prosecutors in Washington will outline.

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Speaker 1: For conspiracy and obstruction counts and a judge will set

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Speaker 1: bail conditions in the latest criminal case involving the ex

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Speaker 1: president weeks after he was charged with putting government secrets

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Speaker 1: at risk.

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Speaker 3: They also say, of course, this.

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Speaker 1: Is Trump's third appearance in a courtroom as a criminal defendant,

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Speaker 1: and in a possible preview of Trump's defense, his lawyer

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Speaker 1: John Laura has called the indictment quote an attack on

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Speaker 1: free speech and political advocacy, implying Trump's lies about election

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Speaker 1: fraud were protected under the constitutional right to freedom of expression.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, we are going to have a

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Speaker 1: panel on to debate the legal piece of this, and

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Speaker 1: one of the individuals we're going to have on is

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Speaker 1: certainly going to be making that case that this was

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Speaker 1: all about free speech, and we've got someone on to make.

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Speaker 3: The other side of that as well.

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Speaker 1: The judge in the case has gotten a lot of attention.

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Speaker 1: This is an Obama appointee who has handed down some

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Speaker 1: pretty harsh sentences in terms of January sixth defendants. She

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Speaker 1: also actually ruled against Trump in a separate January sixth case.

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Speaker 1: She refused to his request to block the release of

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Speaker 1: documents to a House committee investigating the January sixth attack.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you all remember following that and

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Speaker 1: in what the Guardian describes as a memorable line from

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Speaker 1: her ruling. The judge wrote, presidents are not kings, and

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Speaker 1: plaintiff is not presidents. So, like I said, Sager, not

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Speaker 1: expecting anything super traumatic today. It's not even one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent certain that Trump is actually going to appear in court.

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Speaker 3: There is some possibility.

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Speaker 1: That it'll be via zoom, but DC seems to be

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Speaker 1: certainly preparing for him to be here.

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Speaker 2: They are prepping for it. I can tell you the

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Speaker 2: city's been kind of on edge. I keep hearing people,

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Speaker 2: especially neighbor if anyone uses the ring app like neighbors

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Speaker 2: people are always like there's helicopters down in downtown. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: People are always on watch, And I'm like, relaxed everyone.

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Speaker 2: I think we'll know whenever we know. It's Washington, it's

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Speaker 2: not like we don't have presidence for presidents. Of all

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Speaker 2: those people rolling around here. I actually found it's not

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Speaker 2: the immediate court proceedings, but now the current timeline of

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Speaker 2: Trump's legal drama to be one of the most insane

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Speaker 2: things on a political level. Let's put this up there

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Speaker 2: on the screen. This was assembled by Fox News, so

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Speaker 2: as you can see Thursday, that's today. We've got the

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Speaker 2: jan six court appearance. August twenty third is the first

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Speaker 2: GOP debate, which current indication seem he's going to skip it.

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Speaker 2: October two, then you've got the Trump Organization civil suit

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Speaker 2: that will proceed in court. Then January fifteenth, you have

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Speaker 2: the Iowa Caucuses. The exact same day, there's a civil

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Speaker 2: defamation suit, the continuing suit of Egene Carroll. Then a

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Speaker 2: pyramid scheme class action.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even know about that one, So that.

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Speaker 2: One I also did not know about. March fifth, I've

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Speaker 2: heard of this one, it's called Super Tuesday. Then March

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Speaker 2: twenty fifth the New York State criminal hush money lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: Then March twentieth, the classified documents trial, then July fifteenth,

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Speaker 2: the Republican National Convention and election day November fifth, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four. And this just underscores what is going to

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Speaker 2: be with the biggest element all of this is the

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Speaker 2: political drama layered on top of the legal problems. We

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Speaker 2: don't yet have a trial date set for this, so

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Speaker 2: remember this is going to be somewhere in that timeline, Crystal,

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Speaker 2: and just the true insanity. I mean, you and I

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Speaker 2: have said this on the documents. Listen. I think it

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Speaker 2: was charged relatively in a timely manner with this one.

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Speaker 2: They took two and a half years, almost three years

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Speaker 2: to bring this case now against Trump, and now we're

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Speaker 2: thrown into this insane situation where, you know, very likely

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Speaker 2: the most legal jeopardy really that he faces here on

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Speaker 2: this case just because of the you know, not exactly

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Speaker 2: friendly judge and not exactly a friendly jury in terms

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Speaker 2: of facing jail time. When are we gonna find this out?

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Speaker 2: Are we gonna find out before Super Tuesday or not?

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Speaker 2: Because that seems pretty damn relevant if it happens after

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Speaker 2: Super Tuesday. Look, current indications he's gonna wrap this thing

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Speaker 2: up on that day in terms of at least look,

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Speaker 2: everybody always usually knows by that time whether you're on

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Speaker 2: the path to the nomination or not, unless it's a

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Speaker 2: very very tightly held election. I'm going to try to

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Speaker 2: think in modern memory, I think the last time that

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Speaker 2: things really got clenched up post Super Tuesday was probably

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Speaker 2: Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety. So let's just put that there.

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Speaker 2: If we know then he's on a dramatic path, then

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Speaker 2: we are on the collision course to one of those

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Speaker 2: most insane outcomes where he gets convicted, then we have

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Speaker 2: what an immediate kick of the case to Scotus. Imagine

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Speaker 2: in the final days of the election, you know, ahead

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Speaker 2: Trump gets convicted, Scotis vacates it like it vacates a

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Speaker 2: conviction or upholds a conviction. Either is an insane outcome

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Speaker 2: that could lead to who the hell knows what. In

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Speaker 2: terms of the argument pre election, it looks like it

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Speaker 2: makes a comy press conference and all that look like

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Speaker 2: like the total JV squad compared to the drama we

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Speaker 2: are setting ourselves up for, is just absolutely nuts.

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Speaker 1: I mean, any hope that not that I had any

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Speaker 1: hope that this election was going to be about policy issues.

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Speaker 1: It's because neither Biden or Trump is really running on

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Speaker 1: any policy issues. So it's not going to be about that.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be about this timeline. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: the whole of what this election season is going to

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Speaker 1: be about. I mean, in my opinion, Trump's already all

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Speaker 1: but sewn up the Republican nominy. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: very difficult to come from behind for any of these candidates,

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Speaker 1: and you know, for him, as a non incumbent, to

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Speaker 1: have the sizeable lead he has at this point, it's

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Speaker 1: just hard to see how how anyone makes that come back.

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Speaker 1: And you know, keep in mind with this timeline too,

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Speaker 1: this is not fully fleshed down, like we still have

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Speaker 1: the trial for these January six related charges, We still

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Speaker 1: have whatever is going to happen in Georgia and whenever

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Speaker 1: that trial is going to be scheduled, So between now

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Speaker 1: an election day, there is going to just be a

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Speaker 1: lot of legal news about.

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Speaker 2: All of this.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I was thinking about the timeline piece

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Speaker 1: on the document's part. That makes sense to me how

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Speaker 1: the timeline unfolded. They were trying to get the documents back.

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Speaker 1: They were actually trying not to use the criminal you know,

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Speaker 1: justice process, but he was so uncooperative that ultimately their

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Speaker 1: hand was forced that one.

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Speaker 3: This one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why Merrick Garland doesn't appoint a special

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Speaker 1: council on day one.

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Speaker 3: Now, since Jack if.

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Speaker 2: He believed it right, if he believed that this was

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Speaker 2: worth a criminal.

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Speaker 1: So Jack Smith, since he was handed the case, that

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Speaker 1: timeline from when he got it to this outcome is

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Speaker 1: you know, relatively expeditious. I don't know what Merret Garland

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Speaker 1: was doing for the first like year and a half

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Speaker 1: of the Biden administration. I really genuinely don't understand, and

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Speaker 1: to me, you know this that really doesn't serve anyone,

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Speaker 1: regardless of how you feel about President. I saw Chris

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Speaker 1: Hayes on I'm SMBC saying the same thing, like, you

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Speaker 1: had enough time for the Senate to come up with

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Speaker 1: their whole thing and you know, make their whole presentation,

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Speaker 1: and for Congress to at least have some you know,

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Speaker 1: assembling of the facts. What took so long to launch

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Speaker 1: this investigation when we all saw January sixth unfold, Like

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Speaker 1: there was enough already on the public record to say

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Speaker 1: this at least bears some investigating. So I do think

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Speaker 1: that it was a disservice to the American people to

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Speaker 1: wait so long. Now, that doesn't mean that I think

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Speaker 1: the I personally, from my analysis as a non legal

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Speaker 1: person looking at the charges, I think they're appropriate. I

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Speaker 1: think just Trump deserves to be held accountable for trying

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Speaker 1: to steal the election. I think it is a horrible

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Speaker 1: look to see all of the people who like stormed

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Speaker 1: the Capitol on January six go in to prison and

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Speaker 1: the guy who fomented and created the conditions that led

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Speaker 1: to that whole situation getting off Scott free.

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Speaker 3: So I don't oppose the charges.

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Speaker 1: But I am confused and do think that the timeline,

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Speaker 1: you know, has created a even more fraught, chaotic, tense

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Speaker 1: situation than we had to have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, and I think that's what I

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Speaker 2: would try to say. I still have a lot of

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Speaker 2: questions around the free speech one. I genuinely do want

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Speaker 2: to see it adjudicated because I want to see how

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Speaker 2: that actually how it matters in terms of elected officials

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Speaker 2: and in terms of like what you can and cannot

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Speaker 2: say and what it means whenever terms the criminal law.

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Speaker 2: And I think it is a legitimate and important point.

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Speaker 2: So I'm luckily because it's Trump, we will actually get

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Speaker 2: that dunicated in terms of court. Now on the political side,

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Speaker 2: I just can't get over it. It's like, you can't

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Speaker 2: wait two and a half almost three years after the

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Speaker 2: event to charge somebody. You can't decide not to charge

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Speaker 2: the guy. Effectively, what's been coming out Crystal is they

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Speaker 2: decided not to try argin kind of by Merrick Garland.

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Speaker 2: Then he kicks the case in some weird way to

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Speaker 2: Jack Smith, even though Jack Smith was a point for

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Speaker 2: the document's case but like anything Trump related will just

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Speaker 2: kick it to you and then Jack Smith suddenly like

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Speaker 2: expeditionally puts it. If you read the indictment, all of

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Speaker 2: the evidence that was to gather before there has been

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Speaker 2: available for what three months, six months or whatever after

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Speaker 2: the fact, all the emails, everything is actually a pre

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Speaker 2: January six, twenty twenty one. So I mean, look, if

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Speaker 2: you look at that and then check the timeline, there

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Speaker 2: is just no question that if you're a Republican, you

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Speaker 2: can't look at this and be like this is the

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Speaker 2: most politically convenient timing ever, like right whenever he's surging.

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Speaker 2: How about during the Biden situation. I mean, look, these

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Speaker 2: I think these are legitimate points. I will say, like

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Speaker 2: on our show, we've got both, We've got Trump and

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Speaker 2: Archer here, but you know you and I know this,

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Speaker 2: like Fox is not going to be talking about both,

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Speaker 2: and neither is MSNBCO. So that vast majority of people

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Speaker 2: in this country are going to be imbibing like kind

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Speaker 2: of one narrative on this, and I can I can

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Speaker 2: actually understand really for specifically a lot of these Trump

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Speaker 2: voters are like, hey, this is BS, this is political,

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Speaker 2: this isn't real. There's a reason they don't really use

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Speaker 2: that on the document's case because it's so indefensible. But

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Speaker 2: I think they've actually opened themselves up for where's all,

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Speaker 2: like you said, for people who do believe that Trump

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Speaker 2: should be charged and criminally liable for January sixth, to

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Speaker 2: use that political attack against the genuine merits of the

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Speaker 2: case because they didn't conduct themselves in a timely enough manner.

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Speaker 2: And actually Trump could possibly argue that much of this

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Speaker 2: in court as well, like what exactly took so long?

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Speaker 1: I don't see how that's a I don't see how

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Speaker 1: that's a valid defense.

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Speaker 2: The interesting thing from what I read is that because

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Speaker 2: he's going to have the impaneled defense and the ability

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Speaker 2: to subpoena, he will you be able to use subpoena

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Speaker 2: power to actually subpoena some of the investigators and other

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Speaker 2: folks if you can use and mount a defense around

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Speaker 2: the political timing and around the free speech aspect to

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Speaker 2: his defense in order terms of getting people like a deposition.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I don't the timing of it.

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Speaker 1: I don't really see how that works as a defense

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Speaker 1: other than in the political realm. And look, I think

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Speaker 1: that that definitely sells with Republicans. They don't think that

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Speaker 1: these charges are justified anyway. Does it sell with independence

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Speaker 1: and any.

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Speaker 3: Sort of persuadable voters.

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Speaker 1: I don't really think so, because this does get to

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Speaker 1: the core of what people really despise about Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: But if they were you thinking of not voting for him,

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Speaker 1: like this is this is one of the core reasons

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Speaker 1: why the chaos, the willingness. One thing that comes across

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Speaker 1: in this indictment is just like the casual approach to

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Speaker 1: creating total mayhem. You've got this Justice Department official who's

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Speaker 1: like casually like, yeah, there'll be riots in every city

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Speaker 1: in the country if we do this, but yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what the Insurrection Act is for it. So I personally

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Speaker 1: don't know that the timing piece really sells as a

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Speaker 1: political argument for Trump that's going to be persuadable. People

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Speaker 1: can hold two thoughts in their head, and this is

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Speaker 1: what the polling has showed thus far with the Document's case,

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Speaker 1: with the Alvin Bragg case, they both feel like, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of political these charges. Also we think he

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Speaker 1: did it and we think it's serious is real, So

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that they're the overwhelm based on

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Speaker 1: pulling the overwhelming majority people feel like Donald Trump committed

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Speaker 1: crimes with regards to trying to overturn the election, and

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Speaker 1: just on the free speech part.

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Speaker 3: Jack Smith goes out.

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Speaker 1: Of his way in this indictment to say, listen, he's

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Speaker 1: allowed to say the election is stolen. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: after him for that. He is allowed to take these

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Speaker 1: claims to court, which he did, okay, and basically you know,

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Speaker 1: didn't have any success there whatsoever because there was no

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Speaker 1: there there. But he was allowed to do that. None

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Speaker 1: of that is criminal. What you can't do is then

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Speaker 1: use those lies to perpetrate a fraud that involves you know,

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Speaker 1: these seven states of fake elector schemes and you pressuring

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Speaker 1: Mike Pence to try to overturn the results and obstruct

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Speaker 1: quote unquote official government proceeding. That's what you can't do.

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Speaker 1: And that is the case that we're going to make

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Speaker 1: in court. So listen, we're going to have both sides

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Speaker 1: of that coin argued in our panel today. So look

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Speaker 1: forward to hearing what the legal experts have to say

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Speaker 1: about that. But to me, the idea that the Republican

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Speaker 1: talking point about, oh this violet's free speech, it almost

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Speaker 1: seems pre baked and like they had this locked and

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Speaker 1: loaded before they really absorbed the details of the indictment.

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Speaker 1: Most just my humble opinion. Let's go ahead and get

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Speaker 1: to one of the other interesting was kind of a mystery,

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Speaker 1: but maybe not so much of a mystery anymore pieces

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Speaker 1: of this indictment, which is, who are these six unindicted

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Speaker 1: co conspirators. Let's put this up on the screen. From

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, they say six co conspirators described Trump's

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty election indictment. Descriptions in the document indicate that

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Speaker 1: they are former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Trump

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Speaker 1: lawyers John Eastman, Sidney Powell, and Kenneth Chesbro, and former

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Speaker 1: Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark. They at this point said

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Speaker 1: a sixth person has described as a political consultant whose

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Speaker 1: identity is unclear. Well, I think we now know who

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Speaker 1: that political consultant actually was. We got some reporting from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times, go and put a four up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. Looks like the political consultant was Boris Epstein,

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Speaker 1: based on some emails that he sent back and forth.

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Speaker 1: I think with Rudy Giuliani and the role that he

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Speaker 1: is known to have played in terms of the fake

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Speaker 1: elector's scheme and election conspiracy. So looks like we have

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Speaker 1: all six of the unindicted co conspirators sort of identified

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Speaker 1: in terms of their roles matches up with what's already

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Speaker 1: been publicly reported. Just to remind you some of the

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Speaker 1: you know, some of what was going on with these

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Speaker 1: folks at the time. We played this sound recently because

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Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani is actually being sued for defamation of two

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Speaker 1: election workers that he just out and lied about.

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Speaker 3: And I can say that, you know, flatly as.

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Speaker 1: A statement of fact at this point, because even Rudy

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Speaker 1: Giuliani at this point has admitted that he lied about

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Speaker 1: these two election workers down in Georgia. Let's take a

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Speaker 1: listen to some of what he was saying about them.

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Speaker 4: Quite obviously surreptitiously passing around us B ports as if

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Speaker 4: their vials of heroino cookee day. I mean, it's obvious

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Speaker 4: to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are

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Speaker 4: engaged in surreptitious illegal activity again that day, and that's

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Speaker 4: a week ago, and they're still walking around Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Why he repeated this crap over and over. They were

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Speaker 1: passing mints back and forth. It was like immediately debunked.

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Speaker 1: And he has now admitted that he was just out

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Speaker 1: and outlying about these regular people who were trying to

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Speaker 1: like do their civic duty. Many of you will recall

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Speaker 1: some of the comments and interviews of Trump lawyer former

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Speaker 1: Trump lawyer Sidney Powell. This particular instance was at a

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Speaker 1: press conference where she was laying out some fairly wild

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Speaker 1: claims that turned out to be obviously not true about

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Speaker 1: the way that this alleged fraud was all perpetrated on.

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Speaker 3: The America public. Let's say to listen to that.

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Speaker 5: What we are really dealing with here and uncovering more

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Speaker 5: by the day, is the massive influence of communist money

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Speaker 5: through Venezuela, Cuba and likely China in the interference with

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Speaker 5: our elections here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: So the Venezuela theory of the case with the indictments, yes,

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Speaker 1: according to the indictment, even Trump said, sounded crazy.

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Speaker 2: Venezuelan Chinese dominions. My personal favorite theories of stop disci.

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Speaker 3: I liked the bamboo ballots.

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Speaker 2: I guess that, yeah, that's from Arizona. That one that

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Speaker 2: one's actually quite excellent. Yeah, there's there's many schools of

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Speaker 2: stop the steal. These are all my personal favorites because

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Speaker 2: they're real, that's what actual voters in Trump. Maybe Trump

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Speaker 2: didn't believe per se at least from what we see

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Speaker 2: in the indictment, but he's certainly made other people believe it.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think what comes through in the co

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Speaker 2: Conspirators is there has actually been a lot of regal

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Speaker 2: legal wrangling, specifically around John Eastman and whether he was

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Speaker 2: responsible or whether he should be criminally charged or disbarred

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Speaker 2: for like this scheme, but more troubling, I think the

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Speaker 2: most worst one to me was actually Jeffrey Clark, the

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Speaker 2: acting Attorney General, around the actual push by Trump and

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Speaker 2: by Jeffrey Clark to try and use the power of

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Speaker 2: the federal government in order to try and take this

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Speaker 2: to a whole other step, which would have been the

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Speaker 2: actual intervention of the DOJ in like seizing ballot boxes

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Speaker 2: and trying to like officially like spark investigations based though

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Speaker 2: on completely spurious claims. So if you put those together,

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Speaker 2: Epstein and Juliani, sorry Juliani, Eastman and Jeffrey Clark all

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Speaker 2: seem to be like the three centers of the most

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Speaker 2: nefarious plot. Sidney Powell. I mean, she comes across in

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Speaker 2: the indictment and also at the time it's just completely nuts,

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Speaker 2: like out of her mind, so much so that even

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Speaker 2: the people in the room were like, what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? And it's funny because even Mike Pence took

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Speaker 2: a shot at Sidney Powell after the indictment came out.

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Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, the President surrounded himself by all these

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Speaker 2: crackpot lawyers. Yeah, I think we all know exactly who

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Speaker 2: he was referring to. So the other final thing mentioned

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Speaker 2: this in our immediate breakdown in the indictment press conference

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Speaker 2: by Jack Smith, he said, this will not stop our

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Speaker 2: co andtuing and investigation of individuals. So these are not

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Speaker 2: necessarily the last of the co conspirators. Yes, there are

436
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 2: others who may still be. I still think Mike Lindell. Look,

437
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: you know, I don't wish this on Mike Lindell, but

438
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, the man has had his hands in so

439
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 2: many things and be in funding so many types of things.

440
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: Him and then the Overstock CEO guy I forget is

441
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 2: Patrick something those two because they were funding different schemes

442
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 2: and things like this. They might have put themselves on

443
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: some serious legal jeopardy.

444
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is true.

445
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: The other question people are asking is why isn't Mark

446
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: Meadows anywhere? Its incitement and you know, one of the

447
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 1: theories about him is he may have already flipped.

448
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 3: That might be why he is not president.

449
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: In this indictment, there's also a lot of speculation about

450
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: why these particular individuals were in there. Perhaps it's put

451
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: pressure on them to try to cooperate.

452
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 3: Try to strike some sort of deal.

453
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 1: This is all just speculation, but those are the sorts

454
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: of tactics that could be used. You know. With regard

455
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: to Sidney Powell, her claims were so wild that after

456
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: I think it was pretty close after that press conference

457
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: that I just showed you where she was an official

458
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: part of the team, she got pulled from being an

459
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: official part of the team. And we know from the

460
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: indictment that Trump was even saying privately like she sounds crazy.

461
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: But she continued to be really central and certainly was

462
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: publicly making the case, but also was deeply involved in

463
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of the meetings that were happening at the

464
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: White House. And there's a whole bunch of reporting about

465
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: how wild things were then, where some of the aids

466
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: were trying to keep people like Sidney.

467
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 3: Powell and Mike Lindell or whatever out of.

468
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: The White House and Trump was having them in anyway,

469
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: and there were, you know, a bunch of battles over

470
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: what was going on there. But you know this is

471
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: these are the folks that the government has at this

472
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: point identified as.

473
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: Sort of central to the plot.

474
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: So I'm sure they are all in a very uncomfortable

475
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: position right now based on their.

476
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,479
Speaker 2: Ac certainly, that's right. All right, let's talk about credit.

477
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 2: A pretty crazy story going on with this, Actually, Crystal

478
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: was all happening at the exact same moment as the indictment. Yeah,

479
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,959
Speaker 2: when it broke, it kind of was overshadowed, But if

480
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: you've been following the business press, yeah, interestingly enough. That's

481
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: a good point. So let's go ahead and actually put

482
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen about the actual downgrading

483
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: of the US debt by Fitch. Their credit rating was

484
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: downgraded at the exact moment actually of the overall indictment,

485
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: from triple A down to double A plus. You might

486
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: be asking, like, why does that matter, But it's the

487
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 2: outlook for the twenty five trillion dollar treasury markets. And

488
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: actually a representative from Fitch appeared on Business TV in

489
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: order to break all of this down. Here's what he said.

490
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 7: When it comes to the argument about governance and responsibility,

491
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 7: government responsibility, why not I know you referenced January sixth

492
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 7: as part of this call. Why not do this a

493
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 7: couple of years ago?

494
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think again, like the debt and

495
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 8: the fiscal burden, we've seen a pretty steady deterioration and

496
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 8: governance over the last couple of decades, and I think

497
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 8: that you can highlight a few key elements. One would

498
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 8: be the January six But secondly, I think important importantly

499
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 8: for US is the constant greatmanship surrounding the debt ceiling.

500
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 8: The debt ceiling to be the fact that the government

501
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 8: both sides, Republicans and Democrats haven't been able to come

502
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 8: up with kind of meaningful long term solutions to deal

503
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 8: with growing fiscal issues, especially around in title.

504
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 9: And program so security and medicare.

505
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 8: I mean, I think these are the talget things that

506
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 8: highlight the importance of the governments and also the inability

507
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 8: of the government.

508
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 9: In both parties to come up with some kind of solution.

509
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: So what's interesting, Crystal, This is the first downgrade of

510
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 2: US debt since twenty eleven during the debt ceiling standoffs,

511
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: where standards and poors actually knocked us one knob down

512
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: below top grade. And the point that you actual she

513
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: just made is very important is that the pitch, I mean,

514
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: he's framing it in terms of fiscal but at the

515
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: core of what they said in their statement around the

516
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: downgroad of US debt was we feel like the American

517
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: governance system is brittle and will allow things to fall

518
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 2: through the cracks such that we cannot rely entirely and

519
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: fully upon the American political system to be one hundred

520
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: percent behind its debts. While I don't think that as

521
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: true in practice, as in like with the debt ceilings standoff,

522
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 2: eventually we did figure something out, we got something pass

523
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: like whatever, and we always do seem to have it happen.

524
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: In the end. We are still playing chicken though with

525
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: our full faith credit and debt. But beyond that, they

526
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 2: don't just point to the debt ceiling. They point to

527
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: the overall system of like can you deal with irreconcilable

528
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: issues or not even irreconcilable. Can you deal with like

529
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: very tough, long standing problems coalitions sit down and actually

530
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: talk to each other when that has broken down so

531
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: much that they look at it that they feel like

532
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 2: that can't be evolved, not only now, but long time

533
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: in the future. They're onto something there. They're not wrong, they.

534
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: Are not wrong, and and they point to January sixth

535
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: as I think the foremost symbol of those reconcilable difference

536
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: is the fact that you have, you know, a significant

537
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: part of the population that doesn't even accept the results

538
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: of this election, that you have the interests of the

539
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: two political parties are you know, have very much diverged,

540
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: and that there is so little ability even just to

541
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: do like the basics of government at this point. Yeah,

542
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: I can't say that they're wrong. And then the other

543
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: piece that I would say, and of course the Biden

544
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: administration is very offended by this downgrade.

545
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: It does make them look terrible.

546
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: And look, it's not all their fault, like the Republicans

547
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: are the assholes that took the country hostage to start with,

548
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: But the Biden administration decided instead of taking the debt

549
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: ceiling off the table forever that they were going to

550
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: play this game, and so that means that we are

551
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: set up for indefinite taking situations from here on out.

552
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: Now.

553
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: Sure, in the past, at the very last minute, these

554
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: things have.

555
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 3: Always been resolved.

556
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: They've always figured out some way to avoid completely going

557
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: over the cliff. But it only takes one time a

558
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: failing to do that, a playing chicken, and you know,

559
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: one side taking a little too seriously and actually pushing

560
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: us over the edge for.

561
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: It to be a complete catastrophe.

562
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: So you know, I mean knocking it down a notch,

563
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: saying listen, we still have a lot of faith in

564
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: the US government to stand behind its debt, but we

565
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: don't have one hundred percent faith.

566
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty reasonable.

567
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you referenced Biden's the Biden statements. Put this

568
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. Here was the statement from

569
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: Karijian Pierre quote. We strongly disagree with this decision. The

570
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: ratings model used by Fitch declined under President Trump and

571
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: then improved under President Biden. It defies reality to downgrade

572
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: the United States at a time when President Biden has

573
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: delivered the strongest recovery of any major economy in the world.

574
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: And it's clear that extremes by Republican officials, from cheerleading

575
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 2: default to undermining government's democracy. Just seeking to extend deficit

576
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 2: busting tax giveaways for the wealthy is continuing to threaten

577
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: our economy. I mean the part that begs belief here

578
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: is the whole President Biden has delivered the strongest recovery

579
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: of any major economy in the world. You know, they're

580
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: continuing to stick with this freaking Bidenomics narrative. And listen.

581
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: I mean, they can try and point their finger at

582
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 2: the Republicans all they want, here's the truth. They have

583
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: just as much of a you know, as a role

584
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: in systemic problems in the US economy as in the

585
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: Republican officials. If you listen to what Fitch and them said,

586
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: it wasn't just about the debt ceiling and about January

587
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: sixth or any of that. Really what it was is

588
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: that it comes down to the actual fundamentals of our

589
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: economy and something that we talked a lot about everything

590
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: about this a lot. What went wrong for Biden and

591
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: the entire first year of his presidency is just one

592
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: of the biggest own goals in my opinion, and like

593
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: modern presidential history, he was elected for one simple reason,

594
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: which was to be normal and to not be Trump.

595
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: And then one of the things that he almost immediately

596
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: did was continue to go down not only mask mandates,

597
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: vaccine mandates, but finally the problem of inflation was not

598
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: a problem that he tried to tackle until almost eighteen

599
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: months into his presidency. We had shipping problems. Almost immediately,

600
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: the economy was going haywire. That's actually whenever things start

601
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: to win to go negative for him. It was pushed

602
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: fully over the cliff on Afghanistan because it was like

603
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: a physical manifestation of failures. But I think that all

604
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: came down from a vibe of like things are falling apart.

605
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: And then eventually we get to the invasion of Ukraine

606
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: and that's where things really take a dive for him.

607
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: But on the economic piece, totally, you could view it

608
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: from many different angles, but he didn't make it a

609
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: priority of his administration those first nine months, and by

610
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: doing that, he lost the whole country. And look, you know,

611
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: you can say, oh, well, the masks in the back,

612
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: I'm saying when you combine all of that together, it

613
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: clearly eventually came to October of twenty twenty one, where

614
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: things went off a cliff for him, approval rating wise,

615
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: and I don't think that's an accident. I really think

616
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: that it all comes back to the economy, and he

617
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: has lost people since then. And actually, you know, he

618
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: could have put himself in a position imagine how popular

619
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: he would be if he had actually gotten something done.

620
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: If he'd the lower gas prices, you know, in those

621
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: first nine months, if he'd actually attacked inflation, if he'd

622
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: done tried to do something around wages, both either on

623
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: the you know, legislation front or in terms of using

624
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: his administration. But many of these initiatives were dropped, and

625
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: now it's like, what do you you know, what what

626
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: have you done for me? Yeah, in the last three.

627
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: Years, that's right.

628
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Biden had his highest approval rating the beginning.

629
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: Of his sinisteration something percent. It was crazy, yes, and very.

630
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: High among young people, who now are major impediment to

631
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: him being re elected. And we'll get to some of

632
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: the White House fears about that. But you know, the

633
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: beginning part of his presidency was actually very active. You know,

634
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: there were lots of executive orders coming out. There was

635
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, a pandemic relief being passed. There were efforts

636
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: to pass you know, bipartisan legislation. There was a lot

637
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: going on, and some of the things that went through,

638
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: like I always use the example of the child tax credit,

639
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: they really worked, They really helped people, They really insulated

640
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people from the worst parts of the

641
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: COVID economy in the post COVID economy, and then inflation

642
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: starts to creep in, and there was no sense of

643
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: urgency from the White House in tackling that. I mean,

644
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: there was a lot of sort of hand waving it away.

645
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: And I genuinely think that the American people do not

646
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: expect the President to be a magician. I don't think

647
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: they have unrealistic expectations of what they want this individual

648
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: to be able to accomplish.

649
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: But they at least wanted to see him trying to fight.

650
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: And now we know.

651
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: Because we can see, okay, if inflation's coming down, even

652
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: though it doesn't really look like it had that much

653
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: to do with the Federal Reserve policy, has more to

654
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: do with the fact that these supply chain kings got

655
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: worked down, and you know the fact that we've sort

656
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,239
Speaker 1: of moved forward into post pandemic and it's made it

657
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: more difficult for corporations to engage in the type of

658
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: price gouging that they were, But there was no fight

659
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: from him in terms of calling on the carpet people

660
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: who were just out and out gouging American consumers.

661
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: And it was very listless.

662
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: And since then, you know, whatever programs were put in

663
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: place that were really helpful to people, one after another,

664
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: those have expired. So what's the experience of most people

665
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: over the course of the Biden administration. It's their economic

666
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: situation getting a little bit worse, and a little bit

667
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: worse and a little bit worse. I just saw this

668
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: morning pull from CNN that you know, we're going to

669
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: get a lot of commentary on. I'm sure much of

670
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: it extremely annoying about how half of the country thinks

671
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: the economy is getting worse in spite of the fact

672
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: that the Biden administration will go out and to all

673
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: this top line number is great, and that topline number

674
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: is great, and actually the economy is wonderful. People just

675
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: don't really understand it. They need to read the New

676
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: York Times more. I guess the reality is for most people,

677
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: those top line numbers do not reflect their reality because

678
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: you have such vast gulfs between you know, the people

679
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: have so much wealth and income on one side and

680
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: the vast bulk of America.

681
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: You can have those top line.

682
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: Numbers look very different than the actual lived reality of

683
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: so many Americans.

684
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: And so listen, this is a long.

685
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: Way to get around back to like the Fitch credit

686
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 1: rating decision here. But they're not wrong to look at

687
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: the American political system and say this is completely dysfunctional.

688
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: They're courting disaster. There seems to be We're about to

689
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: face an election where it's not even about policy, where

690
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: it's just about you know, Trump's legal issues, which are

691
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: quite significant and quite important. And I'm not trying to

692
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: sidetrack at all, But how can you look at that

693
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: landscape and say, yes, I've got full, full belief in

694
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: the American political system that it's going to be aoka.

695
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: Yes, well said, all right, why don't we talk about Obama?

696
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so this kind of ties in. Let's put this

697
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: up on the screen from the Washington Post. Apparently former

698
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: President Obama was recently here in DC, meeting with current

699
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: President Biden and warning him that Trump has a lot

700
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: more political strength than Democrats may think. Here are the

701
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: specifics from that article, they said former President Obama out

702
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: of private lunch with President Biden earlier the Summer Voice,

703
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: concern about Donald Trump's political strengths, including an intensely loyal following,

704
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: a Trump friendly conservative mediate ecosystem, and a polarized country,

705
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: underlining his worry that Trump could be a more formidable

706
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: candidate than many Democrats realize. They go on to say

707
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: that during their lunch, Obama made it clear Saga that

708
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: his concerns weren't about Biden's political ability. Right, of course,

709
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,479
Speaker 1: of course Biden's great. It has nothing to do with him,

710
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: but rather a recognition of Trump's iron grip on the

711
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 1: Republican Party.

712
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 3: According to the People.

713
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: It's funny too because in this article they go to

714
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: great links to report out and NBC News confirmed and

715
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: whatever that Obama says He's going to do everything he

716
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: can for Joe Biden.

717
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 3: Is that news?

718
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: Like?

719
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I just assumed that that would be the case,

720
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: But I guess, I guess after the fact that you know,

721
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: in twenty sixte to Obama actively pushed Biden out of

722
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: that primary and you know, tried to anoint Hillary. We

723
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: all know how that turned out. And then in twenty twenty,

724
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: Obama sat on his hands until it was clear that

725
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to be able to get Pete or

726
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: someone else. And there's a bunch of reporting too about

727
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 1: how even when they were together in the White House,

728
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: Obama and his brainiac side of the team basically had

729
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: contempt for Joe Biden.

730
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 3: So I guess there was some.

731
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: Question about how hard Obama would go for Joe in

732
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: this election. But anyway, you can put your fears to rest.

733
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: Barack Obama will be fully engaged in this campaign.

734
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: Good. Yeah, good for him. I'm sure it'll work out.

735
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 2: It always does, right. Look, the thing is a too

736
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: about Obama. You and I also know how these stories go.

737
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: This was such a well planned like execution by their teams.

738
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: They're like, well, we'll have the lunch and then afterwards,

739
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: we'll call friendly reporters of the Washington Post and we'll

740
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: read out, you know, like a press release effect, and

741
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 2: then they can bill it as a scoop around it's

742
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: not a scoop whenever somebody literally dictates to you on

743
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: the phone. It's also ridiculous because there are only two

744
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: people presumably inside the room, so obviously one of them

745
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: leaked it. It's not like it was made and saw

746
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 2: what is it. It's not exactly done in such a

747
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 2: way that is supposed to be like anonymous anyway. So

748
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: you look at this and what becomes clear Obama is

749
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: trying to telegraph two things. I'm going to help Biden,

750
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: so you can't blame me for not but also he

751
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: is trying to telegraph his you know, political genius, his

752
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: above it all almost approach where he still believes, I

753
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: think rightfully that he's a better politician than Joe Biden.

754
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: And he kind of wants to put it across. He's like,

755
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: I'm not the one underestimating Trump. I'm pushing Biden to

756
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: do everything he can. I want to dispel with any

757
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: narrative that you know, this thing isn't as in a

758
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: tight race. And it's interesting too that actually came on

759
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: the heels of the New York Times, Paul, which showed

760
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: them completely neck and neck. And you know, Obama's political

761
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 2: analysis too is not wrong, but it's also just funny

762
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 2: coming from the guy who in many ways is the

763
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: most responsible for Donald Trump's presidence. If he did a

764
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: better job as president than Trump would never be president.

765
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: It's simple, you know, and it's like, in many ways,

766
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 2: like Trump didn't just beat Hillary, he destroyed the Obama

767
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: consensus and really all the obamaization of politics was basically dead,

768
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: you know, all of his ideas and both on the

769
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: left and the right in terms of how everything was

770
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 2: supposed to work. That's where Trump really kind of came

771
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: in and blew up. So, I don't know, I found

772
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: it interesting, like on a very meta level, about how

773
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: Obama is still trying to because he's a young man,

774
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: he can't still yet be seen to be he can't

775
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: be shown yet to be kind of the political fool

776
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: that he is in turn, and what I mean by

777
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: that is he's turned himself effectively into a lifestyle brand.

778
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: He's ceased being an actual human being a very long

779
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: time ago, him and Michelle, and so he's got to

780
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 2: keep his political bona fides by calling up the Washington

781
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: Post reporter and giving his analysis. So there's actually quite

782
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: a bit going on here.

783
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, there are a lot of layers to this.

784
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: I mean, there's also there's a lot of like democratic

785
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: freak ount porn in the media right now of like'

786
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: worry about this group, worry about that group. We're going

787
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: to play you a little bit of that in a minute.

788
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: But also there was an article about how Democrats have

789
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: reassessed they did think that Ron DeSantis would be a

790
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: more formidable candidate than Trump, and now they've kind of

791
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: decided Trump may actually be harder to beat. And I

792
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: understand that for a while the polls showed that DeSantis

793
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: would be a tougher general election candidate. But I always

794
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: thought there was major reason for skepticism of that analysis,

795
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: at least, you know, to be sort of like agnostic

796
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: on that analysis, because we know Donald Trump has won before,

797
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: so we know he can, and we know the fervent

798
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: support that he inspires. We know the way he brings

799
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: people out on the woodwork who don't answer polls but

800
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: then show up and vote for Donald Trump, you know,

801
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: no matter what. So you know, I always thought it

802
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: was remember all those articles of Democrats like delighting in

803
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: the idea that Republicans were going to nominate Donald Trump again,

804
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: like you people have learned absolutely nothing. So apparently relatedly, allegedly,

805
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: according to what being leaked to the Washington Post, they're

806
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: finally starting to realize that this is no slam dunk,

807
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: even with and I do think Trump's legal issues, I

808
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: do think those are a problem for him with normy voters.

809
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if he's found guilty, if he's

810
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: facing some sort of prison sentence or whatever, I think

811
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: that is a real issue for him in terms of

812
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: getting reelected. But you also can't deny the reality that

813
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: his polling versus Biden right now is way better than

814
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: his polling versus Biden was last time around. It's also

815
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: better than his polling was versus Hillary Clinton, an election

816
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: that he obviously went on to actually win back in

817
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. So, you know, they're kind of waking up

818
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 1: to the fact that they have a genuine political fight

819
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: on their hands and could be once again responsible for

820
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: handing the country over to Donald Trump.

821
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: And they're willing to do anything.

822
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: Leak to any reporter, you know, wring their hands in

823
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: the media, shame voters.

824
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 3: They're willing to do anything except.

825
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: Actually deliver a real reason for voters to be excited

826
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: about voting for Joe Biden and Christol.

827
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean, we have you know, U offers a CNN

828
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 2: poll here now the approval rating here of June and

829
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: July of the third year of presidents. Here's the rankings

830
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 2: for the last like what sixty or so years, Eisenhower

831
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: seventy two percent, Bush ninety one, seventy percent. He of

832
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: course went on to be defeated Kennedy sixty one, Bush

833
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: oh three fifty eight, Obama fifty one, Nixon fifty Clinton

834
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: forty six, Trump forty three, Reagan forty two, Biden forty one,

835
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: Carter twenty nine. Joe Biden is the second least popular

836
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: president in modern times in the third July or whatever

837
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 2: of his presidency. That does not bode well. I mean, listen,

838
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: Obama barely won reelection in twenty twelve, and then if

839
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: you're looking at this, Clinton won reelection, you know, I

840
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: guess with forty six percent went on to win in

841
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. But it wasn't all that easy going,

842
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: and you know, there were a lot of Dole kind

843
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 2: of screw up that campaign. There's a lot of interesting

844
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: stuff actually about how things could have gone differently. But

845
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: Biden is lower than all of them. And then of

846
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: course Carter, we all know how that worked out. So

847
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: he's not in Jimmy Carter territory yet, but he's getting

848
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 2: pretty damn close. You don't want to be next to

849
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: his name there. When you're running for reelection, there's a.

850
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: Lot of hope about these kind of numbers that like, well,

851
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: it's just different now. People are so polarized, you're just

852
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: every president is going to have basically a low approval rating.

853
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: But Biden's own presidency disproves that because this is not

854
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: what what his ratings look like at the beginning of

855
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: the presidency. And you know, Obama wasn't so long ago

856
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: that he had a fifty one percent, and at times

857
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: during his presidency he had much higher approval rating than that,

858
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: especially at the beginning and kind of the honeymoon period.

859
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: So even within the very recent memory, we see that

860
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: that is not the case. It's just if you want

861
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: to play the political game as it exists now and

862
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: deliver very little for people except for you know, sort

863
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: of like emotional sucker and cultural signaling and the yeah,

864
00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: you might not.

865
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: Like me that much, but the other guy is worse.

866
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: If that's the political game you want to play, Yeah,

867
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: you probably get me in the forties.

868
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 3: That is true. If that is, if you're.

869
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: Accepting like the mode of politics as it has existed

870
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: for many years now, Yes, that is true. You will

871
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: probably be in forty percent no matter what. But there

872
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: is a different possibility, which is like, you could actually

873
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: make people's lives better and actually fight for them and

874
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: make it clearer of fighting for them and by the way,

875
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: not be eighty million years old and able to form

876
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: a coherent sentence. And I have a feeling based even

877
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: with this guy Joe Biden, who you know is not

878
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: in his prime, even with him, he had a much

879
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: higher approval rating at a different time because people felt

880
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: like he was really doing something for them and fighting

881
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: for them. So let's move on to some interesting analysis

882
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: over at MSNBC. There have been a number of pieces

883
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: now recently, and I think justifiably so, about Democratic concerns

884
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: that black voters and black men in particular may not

885
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: show up for them in twenty twenty four. And they're

886
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: looking at the numbers. They're looking at the fact that

887
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, in a lot of demographics, particularly

888
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: among like suburban white women and white men, that there

889
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: was a surge for the Democratic ticket and that's what

890
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: forestalled the Red Wave. But if you dig into those numbers,

891
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: there were some troubling signs among black men in the cities.

892
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: It's not that they showed up and voted for Republicans.

893
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: It's that they just didn't show up. There was a

894
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: fall off in the vote vote for black men, in

895
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: particular in urban areas, so AMAS NBC decided to do

896
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: some reporting on this. There's also a lot of hand

897
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: ringing here about Cornell West of course running as the

898
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: Green part on the Green Party line, so they're concerned

899
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: about what he might do in terms of voters overall,

900
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: but black voters in particular. Let's take a listen to

901
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: what they had to say.

902
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 10: Joe Biden became the first Democrat to win a presidential

903
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 10: election in Georgia since nineteen ninety two when he won

904
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 10: in twenty twenty, and just to show how crucial black

905
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 10: voters were to that win. By our calculations, if less

906
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 10: than one percent of black voters stayed home or voted

907
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 10: for Trump, the outcome of this election could have been

908
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 10: very different. And basically something that we heard on the

909
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 10: ground from the director of organizer from the New Georgia Project,

910
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 10: which is easily pushing the largest voters registration efforts in

911
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 10: the state. They registered about thirty thousand people alone this year.

912
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 10: He said, people are just frankly not running and jumping

913
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 10: about another term of President Biden, and they're frankly keeping

914
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 10: their options open. And that's something that I heard from

915
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 10: voters consistently, is that while they're aware that Joe Biden

916
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 10: could be the default, they're still wanting to see who

917
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 10: else could potentially get in this race. At least one

918
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 10: voter told me they were considering Portell West, but the

919
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 10: majority of people here said even though they may just

920
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 10: be voting for Joe Biden in the end of this

921
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 10: their big concerns right now is the economy. They're still

922
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 10: feeling the stress of inflation, and jobs are drying up

923
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 10: in the state. Even though we've seen some of this

924
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 10: good economic data, we just haven't seen those perceptions seem

925
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 10: to catch up yet. And as you mentioned, these unfulfilled promises.

926
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 10: Student debt was something that we heard consistently from voters

927
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 10: that they really wanted to see that policy come to fruition.

928
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: But obviously after the Supreme Court.

929
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 10: Struck it down, you know, Biden is trying again, but

930
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 10: they were really disappointed that hasn't happened yet.

931
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 8: And you mentioned Correll West, who bi any measure is

932
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 8: a pretty fringe candidate, but we all remember Jill Stein

933
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 8: in twenty sixteen.

934
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 9: If West even pulls off.

935
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: A liver of voters Black voters in particular, that could be.

936
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 9: The difference in some of these states.

937
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: So tell us what's the Biden campaigns.

938
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 11: Are they aware of this potential issue, and what's their

939
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 11: plan to try to make sure they keep those.

940
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 9: Voters in line.

941
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 10: Certainly, strategists have raised concerns about third party candidate's not

942
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 10: just Cornell West, but also this no labels candidates that

943
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 10: we're hearing about. But I think the thing that the

944
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 10: Biden world is banking on.

945
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: Is Donald Trump.

946
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 10: Their hope is that if he is in fact the nominee,

947
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 10: that will galvanize people in the same way that it

948
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 10: did in twenty twenty. There is voters who purely cast

949
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 10: a vote against Donald Trump, and they're hoping that threats

950
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 10: to democracy and him being on the ballot again will

951
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 10: have the same effect that it did.

952
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: Then there's so much to unpack that no wild right,

953
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: there's so much impact there. First of all, so what

954
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: if voters tell this reporter that they're concerned about First

955
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: of all, they're like, what are my.

956
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 3: Other options here? Because I'm not sold on Joe Biden.

957
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: Of course, this is a network that like studiously avoids

958
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: covering the fact that Joe Biden actually has opponents of

959
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: the primary.

960
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 3: These voters do have other choy is that they can evaluate.

961
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 1: So there's that the voters told this reporter, Hey, I'm

962
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: my Number one is the economy.

963
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 3: I'm worried about the economy.

964
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: And by the way, you know, pretty disappointed about how

965
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: this whole student debt thing has gone down. And what

966
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: is the White House's theory of the case. It's like, yeah, well,

967
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: we're not going to really do anything on that, but

968
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: we're hoping that Donald Trump is enough to, in the

969
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: words of that host, keep these voters in line, as

970
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: if anyone is entitled to anyone's vote and doesn't have

971
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: to go out there and earn it. And then of

972
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: course there's the you know, Spurriys analysis that ows Jill

973
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: Stein's fault that the Democrats screwed up twenty sixteen, and

974
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: that you know, if they lose this time, it won't

975
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: be their fault again. It'll be the fault of Cordell

976
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: West or the fault of potentially Joe Mansion, no labels

977
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: ticket whatever.

978
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: It's not anybody's fault except yours for not getting people

979
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 2: to want to vote for you. You know, even in

980
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: the latest New York Times poll, they have a really

981
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: interesting graphic. Let's go and put this up there on

982
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: the screen, which even shows you that quote. Trump has

983
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: made gains amongst men, black, Hispanic, low income, less educated voters.

984
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons why it's a tighter race

985
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: is mainly it seems to do because of these additional

986
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 2: Trump gains. So Crystal Trump has made gains amongst all

987
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: of the demographics which Democrats take for granted. And now

988
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: whenever she as she said, oh, we can only lose

989
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 2: less than one percent and something like that would still

990
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: have an impact, It's like, well, get you know, it's

991
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: not difficult. Do something for these people and maybe they'll

992
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: vote for you. But you can't be blaming Cornell West.

993
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: There's also something very racist about that. I just I

994
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 2: will never stop thinking. It's like, what, because he's a

995
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: black guy, you think black people are going to vote

996
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: for him? Is that it It's like that where you're

997
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: reducing people to yes, people is so stupid.

998
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 3: Yes, that is what they're.

999
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: How can you say that? I mean, it's outraged. You know,

1000
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: imagine if people were like, oh, vivig rumswamp Sagar's gonnauppor

1001
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: him right, because this Indian guy. I'm like, what, Like,

1002
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? That's how people, most normal

1003
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: people are like, Oh, he's a white guy. I'm gonna

1004
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: go vote for somebody because he's white. What are we saying?

1005
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: But apparently like whenever it's black people when we're talking

1006
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,959
Speaker 2: about it, that it's okay to just reduce people down

1007
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: to that funcus ridiculous. It's deeply racist.

1008
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that because I was just

1009
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 1: reading this more. I think it was in Politico that

1010
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: this similar like type of concern about what's going on,

1011
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: how are they going to win, how are we gonna

1012
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: how are we going to convince black voters that it's

1013
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: worth it to come out and vote, even though they

1014
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: feel like their lives have not gotten better under Joe

1015
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: Biden in the same way they didn't feel their lives

1016
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: got better under Republican presidents as well. It's just like,

1017
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, very understandable apathy there. And all of the

1018
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: Democratic spokespeople leaders DNC types that they interviewed were like, Oh,

1019
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: we know what's going to get black voters to the polls.

1020
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: It's the fact that we have Kamala Harris on the ticket.

1021
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: It's the fact that we put Tanji Brown Jackson on

1022
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. It's the fact this one, really, this

1023
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: one really made me chuckle, that we have Hakeem Jeffries

1024
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: as Minority leader. Do you think there is a single

1025
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: person in the entire country that is going to change

1026
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: their vote based on the fact that Hakim Jeffries is

1027
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: in a position of power, And like, listen, representation is important.

1028
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: It's not nothing, but when you're talking about what actually matters,

1029
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: like these voters are telling you what is important to them.

1030
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't take rocket science to figure out the way

1031
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: to message to people and not just a message to

1032
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: actually deliver for people. So they feel like they have

1033
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: some sort of freaking stake in this election. Washington Post

1034
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: had a piece with a lot of this very similar analysis.

1035
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 3: Put this up on the screen.

1036
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: They say Democrats worry their most loyal voters, that would

1037
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 1: be black voters, won't turn out for Biden. In twenty

1038
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: twenty four, they got a quote here, let's put this

1039
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: up on the screen from a founder of the Blackmail

1040
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: Voter Project, guy named w Mondale.

1041
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 3: Robinson. He says, quote, the.

1042
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: Democratic Party has been failing epically at reaching this demographic

1043
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: of black men, and that's sad to say black men

1044
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: are your second most stable based overwhelmingly and you can't

1045
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: reach them in a way that makes your work easier.

1046
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate the way that he frames that, because so

1047
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: much of the analysis of this it's almost like blaming

1048
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: black men and.

1049
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: Like that host set, he's like, how do we get

1050
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: them in line?

1051
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: Like I just find that framing so disgusting. So I

1052
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: appreciate the way that he's framing this as Listen, the

1053
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: onus is on you all to explain why people should

1054
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: bother to show up and vote for you. And most

1055
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: of what comes out in this piece is the Democratic

1056
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: strategy is just like, oh, we need a new field program,

1057
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: we need to put some more money into like voter

1058
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: outreach and whatever, and like, okay, sure, but if you're

1059
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: not selling something that is compelling to people, although voter

1060
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: outreach in the world isn't going to do a damn thing.

1061
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: They also side a poll here Washing Post ipsos pull

1062
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 1: Black Americans back in May found what they describe as

1063
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: a tepid reaction to Biden's reelection, something that I'm sure

1064
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: many people can relate to.

1065
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 3: Out there.

1066
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: Only seventeen percent of Black Americans said they would be

1067
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: enthusiastic if he wins, Forty eight percent said they'd be

1068
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: satisfied but not enthusiastic, twenty five percent said they would

1069
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: be dissatisfied but not angry, and eight percent said they

1070
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: would be angry about another Biden term. So just keep

1071
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: in mind some of these shifts might be small, few

1072
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: percentage points, few percentage points there. But we're talking about

1073
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: the last time these two men went up against each other,

1074
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: it was razors it.

1075
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 2: Well, you're just talking about just loses the state of Georgia.

1076
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: That's it. Ten thousand votes. Boo, you just lost.

1077
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: That's where these interviews were taking place, by the.

1078
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: Way, Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania. There's

1079
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: a lot of people. You know, you switch things up

1080
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: a little bit in terms of voter turnout in inner

1081
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: city Philadelphia, the whole things goes a whole of another way.

1082
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: Same thing Wisconsin, Milwaukee, many of these other cities with

1083
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: large black populations. You know, if the rain is a

1084
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: little bit there, if there's a little vibe in the

1085
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: city that actually don't like Biden that much. Well, Trump

1086
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 2: just won the presidency and I can I mean every

1087
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: single one of these places. That was Wisconsin, Michigan as well, Detroit.

1088
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: You know, it's one of those where it's very clear

1089
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: here that you barely won the presidency and then they

1090
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 2: don't act like it by either doing anything. And then

1091
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 2: whenever it does cime Tom to come time to vote,

1092
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: you come and you scold these people because a black

1093
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: guy is on the ticket and they think so little

1094
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 2: of them that they're going to go and vote for them.

1095
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: I always think about this story, but you know, the

1096
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: majority of black voters supported Hillary Clinton in the two

1097
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 2: thousand and a primary until Obama actually started winning votes.

1098
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: So it's one of those where it's like, yeah, they

1099
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: knew the black guy was running, it was not enough

1100
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: for them. How many times would it go over the

1101
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: fact that Kamala didn't win a lot of black votes

1102
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: in South Carolina. It's one of the reasons that she

1103
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 2: dropped out. Same with Corey Booker. The two black candidates

1104
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: in the race actually had to drop out or didn't

1105
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: even make it because they were getting so low. They

1106
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: ended up voting for Biden. And for Bernie because they don't.

1107
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: People don't think that way, and we never learned that,

1108
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,479
Speaker 2: and apparently it's permissible. And even there are race obsessed media,

1109
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: I don't know why they don't get called out on them.

1110
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so true.

1111
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think that they are correct that

1112
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: they have a problem with Cornell West. I do think

1113
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 1: it is a problem for them. It is a problem

1114
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: entirely of their own making. And to the extent I'm

1115
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: sure there are going to be black voters among many

1116
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: other voters, or particular young voters, who cast their ballots

1117
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: for Cornell West. It doesn't have anything to do with

1118
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: the color of skin. It has to do with the

1119
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: ideas that he's pushing and the fact that he is

1120
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: has demonstrated over his life a commitment to working class

1121
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 1: people and making sure that their material lives are improved. So, yeah,

1122
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: they need to reflect if they actually want to win,

1123
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: they need to reflect on what voters are actually telling

1124
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: them and not what they imagine voters want to hear

1125
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:33,959
Speaker 1: or to see from the Democratic Party.

1126
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree with that. All right, let's talk

1127
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: about Ukraine. And this is always it's always just fun

1128
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: because of the information deficit, with Ukraine. We're getting propagandized

1129
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: by the Ukraine, getting propagandized by the government, and they're

1130
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: getting propagandized by the Russians. Who the hell knows what

1131
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: actually is going on. Even number dead and all of

1132
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: that is completely you know, every once in a while,

1133
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: some game or leaks something on discord and we all

1134
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 2: actually find out the truth. But every once in a while,

1135
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: you know, you still have to rely on like what's

1136
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: going there, and you hear one guy who's on the ground,

1137
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 2: and you hear another guy, but always getting paid by

1138
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 2: this and that. But it's always important to try and

1139
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 2: read the tea leaves, even within side the propaganda. So

1140
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: whenever the propagandasts can no longer spin something in a

1141
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 2: way because the facts don't match up with it, that's

1142
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 2: when real turning points start to come and you start

1143
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 2: to get a little bit of a glimmer of the truth.

1144
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: This was in the New York Times just yesterday morning,

1145
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 2: and this is a pretty damn good insight into what

1146
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 2: is happening in terms of the clear shift where even

1147
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 2: they have to admit what's going on. They say, quote

1148
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 2: Ukrainian troops trained by the West stumble in battle. Ukraine's

1149
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 2: army has for now set aside US fighting methods and

1150
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 2: reverted to tactics that it knows best. They say that

1151
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: the first several weeks of Ukraine's long waited counter offensive

1152
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 2: have not been kind to troops who were trained and

1153
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 2: armed by the United States and its allies. Equipped with

1154
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 2: advanced American weapons heralded the vanguard of a major assault,

1155
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: the troops became bogged down in dense Russian mindfields under

1156
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 2: constant fire from artillery, helicopter gunships. Units got lost. One

1157
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 2: unit delayed a nighttime attack till down, losing advantage. Another

1158
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 2: fared so badly commanders yanked it off the battlefield altogether. Now,

1159
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 2: the Western training, Western trained Ukrainian brigades are trying to

1160
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: turn things around by changing tactics, focusing instead on wearing

1161
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: down Russian forces with artillery and long range missiles instead

1162
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 2: of plunging into minefields under fire. A troop surge is

1163
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: now underway in the country south, second wave of Western

1164
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 2: train forces launching mostly small scale attacks to punch through

1165
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 2: Russian lines. There's a lot to actually think about this.

1166
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 2: Number one, they have just admitted something very basic that

1167
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: US aid outside of sheer bullets and of artillery, which

1168
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 2: is the most basic form of aid that we've basically

1169
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: been You know, you can go read books from eighteen nineties.

1170
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: We were providing militaries with that, all of the advanced weaponry,

1171
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 2: all that other stuff that was supposed to turn the tide.

1172
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 2: It just didn't work. And this is a testament for Look,

1173
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: are there a lot of people who watch the show

1174
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 2: in the US military. I mean this with no disrespect whatsoever,

1175
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 2: because this is never a denigration of the actual service

1176
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 2: members I'm seeing as an institution. Let's look at the

1177
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 2: track record of training and equipping Iraq. How did that go?

1178
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: That was great? Right, it was awesome, so much so

1179
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 2: that they threw their weapons down. They flew a fleet

1180
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: whenever IIS takes over the city of Mosul Okay. So

1181
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: that costs two trillion. Now let's talk about Afghanistan. We

1182
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: spent let's say seven hundred billion training and equipping the

1183
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 2: Afghan National Security Forces. Oh that was great. The moment

1184
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 2: that these guys getting into the city of kabbl the

1185
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 2: guy who salary paying gets on a plane laden with gold,

1186
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: He's like, peace, I'm out. And then the US military

1187
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 2: has to lock down an airport to try and get

1188
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: down interpreters out, even though we just prop these people

1189
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: up for the last twenty years. Syria, anyone want to

1190
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 2: remember that one, I mean, whether or not. Yeah, Like,

1191
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: my personal favorite is that the current Secretary of Defense,

1192
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: Lloyd Austin, I will never forget this covering it at

1193
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 2: the time is whenever he was testifying before the Senate

1194
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 2: and they're like, so, how many people have you actually

1195
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: successfully trained and equipped for five hundred million or whatever?

1196
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,479
Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, you know, like a dozen. They're like, wait,

1197
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 2: what so that that's what ended up happening.

1198
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 3: And it doesn't and they were like al Qaeda here.

1199
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. And then the only way we've ever been

1200
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 2: able to turn the tide in any of these conflicts

1201
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 2: is actually just putting direct US military boots on the ground.

1202
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 2: So in the Syrian context, well, we had a couple

1203
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 2: thousand people, we started arming and equipping the YPG. But

1204
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: then even then it was a deeply like US influence.

1205
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 2: We're basically running all the ops. When you think about

1206
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 2: a Rock, a Rock had some phenomenal counter terrorism forces.

1207
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: Let's all be honest here, they were not only trained

1208
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 2: by the Navy Seals. They were deeply embedded like green Berets,

1209
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 2: Navy Seals and all these other guy special operators within

1210
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: that when they were at their most combat effective. And

1211
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 2: then same whenever it comes to yeah, sorry Siria and

1212
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 2: then Afghanistan, same thing. The moment that the US Special

1213
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 2: Operators and the USISR and all that other stuff either

1214
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 2: got pulled or wasn't as robust, they fell apart completely.

1215
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: And so I mean again, I mean as an institution,

1216
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 2: it is clear here we don't know how to do

1217
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: this very well. We know how to do one thing

1218
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: we're good at, like the office management part of war,

1219
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 2: as in with the Ukrainians, we're like, yeah, the Russian

1220
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 2: ship is over there to take dismissal, go fire it.

1221
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: But in terms of being like here's the weapons, here's

1222
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: how you train, combined to our tactics all this, and

1223
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,959
Speaker 2: how do you use ELSA, it's not going to work.

1224
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: And so whenever they also point to here reverting to

1225
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: the tactics of simply trying to wear down the Russians. Okay, well,

1226
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 2: on A, We've tried this battle a million times throughout history.

1227
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,439
Speaker 2: The person who wins is the one who can last

1228
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: out the longest. How are you going to last out

1229
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: the longest. You don't make any shells, You only rely

1230
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: on charity from Western nations. Why do you think that

1231
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 2: you're going to beat a nation which has a genuine industry,

1232
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 2: which is Russia. They have oil which they can sell

1233
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: to people who aren't in the West, and they have

1234
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 2: a populace which is relatively untouched completely by the war.

1235
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is is that the nation who

1236
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: folds is usually the one after many years of bloody

1237
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: and horrific conflict, is the one that just can no

1238
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 2: longer sustain itself from the home front. And this is

1239
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 2: deeply sad, and already we're actually getting in indications just

1240
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 2: about how brutal this war is from the Wall Street Journal.

1241
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 2: They actually talk about how the number of people inside

1242
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 2: of Ukraine who appear to have lost limbs, this is

1243
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 2: based on prosthetic prosthetic limb like data inside is now,

1244
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 2: at least by some estimations, equivalent to the number of

1245
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: Britons who lost limbs in all of the First World War,

1246
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 2: nearly equivalent to the number of Germans that lost limbs

1247
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 2: in the First World War. I don't need you know listen,

1248
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 2: if you have the stomach for it, I actually encourage

1249
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 2: you to go look at what some of those wounds

1250
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 2: and all those look like, because they have a profound

1251
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 2: impact on me personally. Just to see, like, you know,

1252
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 2: before the invention of a lot of prosthetic surgery and

1253
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 2: stuff like, that's what the actual face of war looked like.

1254
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 2: Is somebody's nose gone because a shell hit them right

1255
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 2: in the face. Luckily, we've gotten to the point where things,

1256
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 2: you know, look better, I guess, but you can't take

1257
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: away the psychological damage, the trauma, the generational impact that

1258
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: that has on the people that they interact with and

1259
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: on a day to day basis. So I mean, all

1260
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: of this is just a very long way of saying like, look, obviously,

1261
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 2: the Ukrainians, I mean, it takes a hell of a

1262
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 2: lot of guts to march into a minefield, to lose

1263
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of limbs, and to still live to

1264
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: fight another day. We have to look at this from

1265
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: a geopolitical level and be like, what are we doing here?

1266
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: What are we getting? And I also was thinking about this.

1267
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: One of the most common talking points in Washington is

1268
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 2: you know, this is the best money we've ever spent.

1269
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 2: We're wearing down the Russians. That is like looking at

1270
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 2: the Ukrainians as ponds. You know, it's literally thinking of

1271
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 2: these people be like, oh, yeah, they lose a couple

1272
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: of limbs here and there, whatever. You know, I know

1273
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: some people who have lost limbs in combat. It's no joke.

1274
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it stays with you forever, and they think

1275
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: about it and they talk about it, not even in

1276
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 2: a shame level, just you know, there's of course it's

1277
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: going to impact your life. It's a physical representation of

1278
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: what was lost and what you gave and family, and

1279
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 2: there's so much impact that happens there. So yeah, I

1280
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: don't know. I mean I just think it's one of

1281
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 2: those where and come back to and you're reading things

1282
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 2: like this. It's just so clear what is happening. Yeah,

1283
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: and yet nobody wants to grapple or face with reality.

1284
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: The only response Crystal By why christ By Washington, is

1285
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: let's give them five hundred million.

1286
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 3: I guess we better give them more. I guess we

1287
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: better give them more.

1288
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1289
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: I mean to me, I just look at this and

1290
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: I feel like reality is taking hold.

1291
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 3: I mean, the Ukrainians really defied the odds.

1292
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, get incredible, dramatically outperformed what anyone possibly could

1293
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,439
Speaker 1: have expected. But much of that came when they were

1294
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: much more effective in defense than we thought that they

1295
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: could be. But you know, reality, the laws of gravity

1296
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: eventually take hold, and you are up against an adversary

1297
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: that made all kinds of mistakes. But some of they've

1298
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: learned from. They seem to be in Russia moving towards

1299
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: a more full scale mobilization. They certainly are gearing up

1300
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: to be on war footing for.

1301
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: A long time.

1302
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: And you know when it came to okay, now it's

1303
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: time to try to employ these more complicated battlefield tactics.

1304
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 3: And retake the territory that's been lost. Like they're not miracle.

1305
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: Workers, right, So, so, yes, reality has taken hold.

1306
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 3: It looks like.

1307
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: This is a very very difficult situation for the Ukrainians

1308
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, push forward. And I

1309
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: just think there was such I just think the US

1310
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: government has had such blinders on the whole time, even

1311
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: the idea that oh, this is such great money spent

1312
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: because we're weakening Russia, Like are we do we know

1313
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: that for a fact, Because I mean, honestly, actually their

1314
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: GDP numbers look just fine and dandy. Economically, you know,

1315
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: the all out economic war that we attempted to wage

1316
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: on them has basically completely failed, So that hasn't worked out.

1317
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: You know, we had the whole progosion situation. There was

1318
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: a lot of cheerleading of like, you know, cheerleading on

1319
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: this maniac to try to take control of Russia, which

1320
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: could have been really disastrous and very chaotic.

1321
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 3: Not that it's great having Putin there.

1322
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: But you know, there's no imminent sign of Putin's government collapsing,

1323
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:22,919
Speaker 1: nor is it clear that that would be a good

1324
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: thing for anyone. By the way, when you're dealing with

1325
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: such a volative situation in nuclearum superpowers. So I just

1326
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: all I want is a straight answer from Joe Biden

1327
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: of how this ends, Like how do you see.

1328
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 3: This playing out?

1329
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: It seems increasingly clear to me that the moment when

1330
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: the Ukrainians and the Western Coalition probably had the greatest

1331
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: leverage was very early in this conflict, when we were

1332
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: going out of our way to try to scuttle any

1333
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: potential diplomatic resolution, that was probably the best time to settle.

1334
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: And you know, before tens of thousands of Ukrainians lost

1335
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: limbs and many lost their lives as as well.

1336
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 2: That's right, Okay, let's go to the next part here,

1337
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: Devin Archer sitting down with Tucker Carlson. So we cut

1338
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: together some of the most important parts of the interview.

1339
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: There will be a second part apparently of the longer

1340
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 2: form conversation between the two. The clip that was put

1341
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 2: out was only about eleven minutes. Devin Archer, for context,

1342
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 2: was Hunter Biden's business partner, wrote in BHD Holdings, which

1343
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 2: is one of the holding companies that Hunter Biden was

1344
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 2: a part of. They had business dealings with Moscow, they

1345
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: had business dealings with China. He was also at to

1346
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 2: the center of a lot of the Beisma dealings. New

1347
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 2: Hunter for over a decade and says here in this

1348
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 2: interview that he heard at least on twenty occasions President

1349
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 2: Biden actually with then Vice President Biden phone into business

1350
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 2: meetings with Hunter Biden. Here, let's take a listen.

1351
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 12: Our partnership started in two thousand and eight, two thousand

1352
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 12: and nine ish conversations started. That's when I re met

1353
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 12: Hunter and actually had a you know, sit down and

1354
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 12: meal with him, talked about the transition from lobbying into

1355
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 12: strategic advisory and then kind of, you know, some type

1356
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 12: of coalescence around having a private equity fund that would

1357
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 12: have this unique access and understanding of a regulatory environment.

1358
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 6: Again, Joe Biden, then the sitting vice president, knew that

1359
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 6: there were Hunter's business associates.

1360
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 9: In the room.

1361
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think I can. I could definitively say at

1362
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 12: particular dinners or meetings, he knew there were business associates,

1363
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 12: and he you know, we or if I was there,

1364
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 12: I was a business associate too. I don't know if

1365
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 12: it was an orchestrated call in or not. It certainly

1366
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 12: was powerful though, because you know, if you're sitting with

1367
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 12: a foreign business person and you hear the vice president's voice,

1368
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 12: that's prize enough. I mean, that's that's that's pretty impactful

1369
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 12: stuff for anyone.

1370
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 4: It was.

1371
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 12: It's just the president you have to be I mean,

1372
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 12: you understand DC, right, So the power to have that

1373
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 12: access in that conversation and it's not in a scheduled

1374
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 12: conference call, and that's a part of your family. That's

1375
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 12: that's like the pinnacle of power in DC.

1376
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 6: You're taking a call from the vice president and you

1377
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 6: put it on speaker it's not just hey dad, I'm

1378
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 6: in a meeting with some buddies, right, it's.

1379
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 2: Let me put my dad the present speaker.

1380
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, yep. In the rear view, it's it's an abusive

1381
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 12: soft power.

1382
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 6: I'd say, an abuse of soft power.

1383
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 2: Abusive soft power. I got to be honest, pr So

1384
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 2: I found an Archer incredibly slimy. Throughout this interview. There

1385
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 2: was a level fact. I think the reason why is

1386
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 2: there was this intense self awareness from Archer. He's like, listen,

1387
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 2: you know how Washington works. You get the guy. He

1388
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 2: had a lot of connections. He's like Hunter, he was

1389
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 2: the regulation guy. And Hunter and Tucker would be like, well,

1390
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 2: what do you mean. He'd be like, you know how

1391
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 2: Washington where he didn't want to say it really out loud,

1392
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 2: and he kept kind of smiling around the truth. But

1393
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 2: the truth enough about calling in twenty times and that

1394
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 2: real moment that stuck out to me. He's like, look,

1395
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 2: it's the pinnacle of power in Washington. You're in a

1396
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 2: meeting with some Ukrainian guys who are paying you eighty

1397
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 2: three thousand dollars a month, and you put the guy

1398
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 2: on speaker. And Tucker even he was like he's like, look,

1399
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: I love my kids. I talk to him every day.

1400
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 2: He's like, I don't. And he has adult children. He's like,

1401
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: I don't call them into business meetings. It's super weird.

1402
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 2: And if they did that to me vice versa, what

1403
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 2: the hell is going on? So clearly something was happening

1404
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 2: to the extent where Biden knew he was calling into

1405
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 2: a business meeting because he literally would put him on

1406
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 2: and that, you know, Dan Goldman, the Democratic representative, His

1407
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: defense was, well, they didn't really talk about business. They

1408
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 2: were talking the illusion of access. As Archer says, the

1409
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 2: mere fact that the man is on the phone was

1410
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: clearly worth millions of dollars two Hunter's foreign business partners.

1411
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 2: At the very least, it was part of the sales

1412
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 2: pitch that he was able to monetize his last name.

1413
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: There's no denying it now, Like looking through this and

1414
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 2: in this interview, and of course we were talking about this sport,

1415
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 2: it's hilarious. One Tucker taught that this interview is not

1416
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 2: allowed to be covered on Fox News, apparently because Tucker's

1417
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 2: in it and he's fired and he's persona on Grado now.

1418
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: But also the actual allegations here are completely ignored by

1419
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 2: the Dan Goldmans and all of them, the type, all

1420
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 2: the spin around. It was obviously wrong when from the

1421
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: horse's mouth, he's like, yeah, the mere fact that he

1422
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 2: was on the phone was worth a lot of money

1423
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 2: to us. Yeah, He's like, that's what we paid him for.

1424
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 2: That's why I was in business with Hunter. It's obvious,

1425
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: I know it.

1426
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: And we talk a lot about the problem of just

1427
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: the appearance of corruption and what that does in terms

1428
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: of the public trust, because then, how do you know

1429
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: when Joe Biden is acting as vice president, or Joe

1430
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: Biden is acting as president, or Joe Biden's you know,

1431
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 1: a powerful member of the Senate, how do you know

1432
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 1: that he's not influenced at all by what he knows

1433
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 1: his son is up to and his business dealings and

1434
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 1: his associates. Do we really have confidence that, listen, human

1435
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 1: beings are human beings, that you're not impacted by that

1436
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,560
Speaker 1: at all when you're making decisions on, you know, supposedly

1437
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 1: on behalf of the American people. And you know, we

1438
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: talk about this with regard to Trump and Kushner and

1439
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 1: the Saudi money and all of that stuff as well,

1440
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 1: like the fact that you're getting those funds in the

1441
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: fact that you know your son's livelihood is dependent on

1442
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: his access to you, his last name, his affiliation, this,

1443
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, group of sketchy foreign businessmen, and we're expected

1444
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: to believe that you remain pure as the driven snow

1445
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: in terms of your business, in terms of your doing

1446
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:12,600
Speaker 1: the business of the American people. It's just, you know,

1447
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: it's hard to believe that. And then the other piece

1448
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: of this is just astonishing to me. It kind of

1449
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: reminds me of the defense that's being mounted for Trump

1450
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,839
Speaker 1: of like, oh, this guy's so dumb that he actually

1451
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: believed that the emission was stolen. It's sort of the same.

1452
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, Joe Biden is so dumb that

1453
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 1: he actually didn't realize Hunter Biden was calling him into

1454
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 1: these business meetings to trade on his name. Like I'm sorry,

1455
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I do not believe that whatsoever,

1456
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: because Joe Biden has been in DC for longer than

1457
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: we have been alive, way longer than you've been alive,

1458
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: and we're expected to believe he doesn't also have some

1459
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: basic understanding of how DC works.

1460
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 3: Come on, get out of here.

1461
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 2: Totally agree and it's actually you know. I was in

1462
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 2: a meeting once with this guy who's a very sketchy guy,

1463
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 2: and he was trying to prove to me that he

1464
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 2: knew a lot of very powerful people in the White House,

1465
01:09:58,360 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 2: and I was skept. I was like, yeah, I prove

1466
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 2: and he's like, all right, stay quiet. I was like, okay,

1467
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 2: And he started calling people in the White House on

1468
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 2: the phone and put him on speakerphone and was talking

1469
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 2: to him well while I was in the room, which

1470
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 2: is pretty scummy actually on his behalf. But I remember

1471
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 2: it was like, it's like a power move. And I

1472
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 2: was like, whoa. I was like, all right, guy knows

1473
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 2: a guy. He's like, I'll listen to him. I'll hear

1474
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 2: what the person has to say. Is this is like

1475
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 2: a this is like a power move. I think that

1476
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 2: was it's a flex in front of these business guys.

1477
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 2: And that's what they're paying for. That's what they're paying

1478
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 2: in eighty three thousand a month.

1479
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: The currency in DC isn't in Tucker gets with those

1480
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: isn't money, it's power.

1481
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 3: It's access to power.

1482
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 1: And so yeah, if you're able to put your dad

1483
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: on speakerphone and your dad as a president Vice President

1484
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: of the United States, Hunter was monetizing that. Now, maybe

1485
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: it's not illegal, is it gross?

1486
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Did Joe Biden lie about what was going on?

1487
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty undinized, and that's actually the key.

1488
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: All right, Sorry, what are you looking at?

1489
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 2: Well, if he took a snapshot and showed it to

1490
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 2: people one hundred years from now of today, you would

1491
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 2: think that they would be deeply sympathetic to us. What

1492
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 2: an awful time two geriatrics running for president Trump, indictment,

1493
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 2: Bidenomics and all its glory, awful housing shortages. But as

1494
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 2: possible though, they may not remember any of that. In fact,

1495
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 2: all of that may be a footnote to what is

1496
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 2: happening right now with possibly one of the most important

1497
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 2: scientific breakthroughs of the twenty first century. It has captured

1498
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 2: the minds of engineers, venture capitalists, and technologists everywhere. I'm

1499
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 2: talking about the LK ninety nine superconductor. Luckily, my dad

1500
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: is a professor of electrical engineering, and he's able to

1501
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 2: translate the implications of this technology for my fellow and

1502
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 2: uninitiated through me. Basically, it matters because our current infrastructure

1503
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 2: that supplies power to devices, our homes, our cars, our

1504
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 2: data centers and more have a central enemy. Heat. When

1505
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 2: electrons flow through with current conductors, they create resistance. This

1506
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 2: causes two problems. It reduces the flow of the overall

1507
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 2: electrical current, and it creates heat, which degrades the infrastructure

1508
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: around it is conductivity. Thus, a so called superconductor is

1509
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 2: a conductor of electricity that functions without this heat. The

1510
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 2: problem is that achieving superconductivity requires using liquid nitrogen to

1511
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 2: cool materials down to minus three hundred degrees or so fahrenheit.

1512
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 2: It can only function at certain artificial pressures, and this

1513
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 2: poses a lot of problems from an engineering point of view.

1514
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 2: You've got to make space for cooling. You need temperature control,

1515
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: you need atmosphere control. You need materials that can withstand

1516
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 2: both of these things. It can be done, but it's tricky.

1517
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: That's why engineers make the big bucks. Now, if you

1518
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 2: think about these principles, it starts to make sense. It's

1519
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: why data centers have to stay cool. This is why

1520
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 2: your laptop or computer has a fan built inside of it.

1521
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 2: It's why electronics can get hot whenever they're charging or not.

1522
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 2: In s's heat is the enemy of two things. It

1523
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:50,639
Speaker 2: is inefficient and it's hard to build around whenever you're

1524
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 2: making real products. Thus, the holy grail has always been

1525
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 2: what if we don't have to worry about all this

1526
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 2: pesky heat and pressure? And this is where the hype

1527
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 2: of recent days is come from. A team of scientists

1528
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 2: in South Korea have published the preprint of a paper

1529
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 2: in which they claim to have developed a superconductor which

1530
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 2: functions at temperatures above two hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit

1531
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 2: and with ambient pressure, so basically doesn't need to be

1532
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 2: cold anymore. You don't need some crazy atmospheric pressures. The

1533
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 2: thing just works in normal temperature, normal climate. The team

1534
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 2: claims to have replicated a genuine superconductor status in a

1535
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 2: video that they published showing a magnetic effect that is

1536
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 2: supposed to be the hallmark of superconductivity. So why are

1537
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 2: we not popping champagne and celebrating. Well, some people are

1538
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,759
Speaker 2: still very skeptical of all of this and are reiterating

1539
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: a scientific principle. Sounds great, can you replicate it? As

1540
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 2: Scientific American notes in nineteen eighty seven, there was actually

1541
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 2: a similar hype around a compound that was discovered. The

1542
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 2: confunction is a superconductor but after closer inspection it ended

1543
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 2: up fizzling out. Apparently, these claims do pop up every

1544
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 2: once in a while in academia and then they fizzle out.

1545
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 2: It's just that this time Twitter exists and people are

1546
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 2: getting seriously hypened. So at the same time, we still

1547
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 2: shouldn't pour water on the entire thing. Chinese researchers at

1548
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 2: Wazong University they've claimed to replicate the superconductor manufacturing process

1549
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,600
Speaker 2: and post it as proof the magnetic effect that I

1550
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 2: reference by cooking up the same materials as published by

1551
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 2: the South Korean team. The Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory at

1552
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 2: the University of California system also claimed that it had

1553
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 2: simulated the South Korean team's findings and believed that it

1554
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 2: was theoretically possible, and they were joined in that by

1555
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 2: the Shenyang National Lab in China. So we're in the

1556
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 2: weight and see mode. It's kind of like the lottery,

1557
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 2: though the best part it's not the drawing itself. It's

1558
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 2: that part, the three hours or so before the drawing

1559
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 2: when you get to sit back and you imagine what

1560
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 2: life could be like with a small chance that actually

1561
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 2: it will be that way if this works what does

1562
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 2: it mean. It means smaller electronics. It means abundantly cheap

1563
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 2: energy because so much will no longer be lost in transmission.

1564
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 2: It means a revolution in cars, frictionless technology, and it

1565
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 2: means massive advancements in quantum computing. But I think more importantly,

1566
01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 2: it means that we are no longer living in a

1567
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 2: stagnant technological era. One of the most important quotes about

1568
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 2: technology was said by venture capitalist Peter Teel almost a

1569
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 2: decade ago. We were promised flying cars. All we got

1570
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 2: was one hundred and forty characters. There's something profoundly true

1571
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 2: about this. In our last scientific advancement in the last

1572
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 2: two decades, watch a movie from the nineteen nineties, Other

1573
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 2: than the cell phone, what's really all that different from

1574
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 2: their life and yours. The only advancement that we've made

1575
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 2: is consumer electronics. And while we think that and the

1576
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 2: Internet are incredible in their own right, put it up

1577
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 2: against previous eras of scientific discovery, they pale in comparison.

1578
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 2: For those who have watched the movie Oppenheimer, one of

1579
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 2: the most exciting parts of the film is the first

1580
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 2: hour and a half or so, as they show Oppenheimer

1581
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 2: traversing through the universities of Europe, meeting some of the

1582
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 2: most important scientific minds in the world and collaborating. In

1583
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 2: those days, it seemed as if world changing Nobel Prize

1584
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 2: winning discoveries were being made on a near daily basis,

1585
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 2: and then accelerated by things like the Manhattan Project. And

1586
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 2: the crazy thing is it really didn't even stop there.

1587
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 2: We went from President Kennedy's wish to a man on

1588
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 2: the Moon within a decade, and then along the way

1589
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 2: accelerated the development of technologies computers, micro proceressors. These never

1590
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: would have taken off without the funding that these programs

1591
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 2: provided and the scientific inquiry. But then it all came

1592
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 2: crashing down sometime around nineteen seventy one, As Teel himself

1593
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 2: has said, we stopped going to space. We became a

1594
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 2: financialized and consumer obsessed economy. Life got easier, Americans got

1595
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 2: fatter and richer on paper, but our pace of advancement

1596
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 2: basically kind of stopped. Even now, consider two countries that

1597
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 2: were at the forefront of this, South Korea and China.

1598
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 2: While we're apparently only in the replication game, not the

1599
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 2: advancement game. If there's any hope to LK ninety nine.

1600
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 2: It said it could give us the world another shot

1601
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 2: of greatness and we can actually ditch one hundred and

1602
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 2: forty characters or whatever the hell. The limit is now

1603
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: on X for real flying cars. So I want flying cars, Crystal.

1604
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 2: That's what I've always wanted.

1605
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,799
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Cyber's monologue,

1606
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1607
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 2: Crystal, what do you take a look at?

1608
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 3: Have I got a story for you?

1609
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 1: It's about greed, corruption, mismanagement, and the way workers get

1610
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: smeared and screwed. You see, this week, tens of thousands

1611
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 1: of workers organized by the Teamsters are likely out of

1612
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 1: work after Yellow Trucking Company went under. Now, the company

1613
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,880
Speaker 1: was quick to blame supposedly unreasonable demands from workers for

1614
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,560
Speaker 1: their woes, but the true story of their demise goes

1615
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: back decades with mismanagement so egregious that even a massive

1616
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: taxpayer bailout gifted to them basically by Jared Kushner and

1617
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 1: certainly the Trump administration, could not rescue the company. And

1618
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: the end result, my friends, is that American taxpayers now

1619
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: the proud owners of a massive steak in a company

1620
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: that just went belly up.

1621
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 3: Let me unpack all of this for you.

1622
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: So Yellow's desperate financial straits really begin in the early

1623
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 1: two thousands. They placed a massive bet on a one

1624
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: point one billion dollar merger with a top competitor called

1625
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 1: Roadway Corps Bold bet, I guess, But instead of benefiting

1626
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,760
Speaker 1: from their new dominant market position, Yellow struggled under that

1627
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: massive debt load after they failed to effectively navigate the merger.

1628
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:04,560
Speaker 1: This debt almost pushed them over the edge after the

1629
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight financial crash, but they managed to

1630
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,799
Speaker 1: narrowly escape bankruptcy by wiping out their shareholders and forcing

1631
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: their workers to take a huge pay cut. At that time,

1632
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,559
Speaker 1: the teamsters agreed to billions of dollars in painful worker

1633
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 1: concessions in order to try to keep the company afloat,

1634
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 1: but it still wasn't enough to write the ship. And

1635
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: then when COVID hit, Yellow was once again facing financial collapse.

1636
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 1: But unlike you, or maybe the vast majority of workers

1637
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: and small business owners in the country, Yellow had an

1638
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: ace up their sleeve by the name of Jared Kushner.

1639
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: You see in one of their attempts to refinance that

1640
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: giant debt burden. Yellow had refinanced through private equity giant

1641
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 1: Apollo Global, which kept the company going with a massive

1642
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: six hundred million dollar loan back in twenty nineteen. So

1643
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:50,599
Speaker 1: Paulo Global then had a big interest in keeping Yellow afloat,

1644
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: and they also had a big favor to call in

1645
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: from the White House because a few years before rescuing Yellow,

1646
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 1: they had also rescued the presidential fail son in law

1647
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 1: Jared Kushner, with a big old loan on a Chicago

1648
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 1: skyscraper that his company had foolishly purchased at the height

1649
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: of the real estate bubble. Given what commercial real estate

1650
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: valuations look like today, I can only imagine how screwed

1651
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 1: that loan and investment is at this point. That Apollo

1652
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: loan to Kushner was fishy as hell to start with,

1653
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 1: coming as it did after Kushner brought Apollo into advice

1654
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,840
Speaker 1: on infrastructure and even discussed a White House job with

1655
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: an Apollo founder. So when the pandemic shutter businesses and

1656
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: pushed millions into unemployment, Yellow, thanks to their high level

1657
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 1: government connections, they were able to secure a sweetheart deal

1658
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 1: from none other than you and I, and it was

1659
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 1: a doozy seven hundred million dollars authorized under the CARES Act.

1660
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: Even though that legislation was supposedly for relatively small loans

1661
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:46,560
Speaker 1: to small businesses. That loan to Yellow was so gigantic

1662
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 1: that at the time it was authorized, it represented ninety

1663
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,679
Speaker 1: five percent of all the funds that had been dispersed

1664
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 1: through the program. If you owned or were employed by

1665
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: a small business, you probably remember how tough it was

1666
01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: to get the paperwork done and prove them and the

1667
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 1: money release. All of that was a mess. Not so

1668
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 1: for the chronically mismanaged but politically connected Yellow. With the

1669
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: administration access provided by Apollo, they argued that the company

1670
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 1: was critical to national defense and therefore deserved to be

1671
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 1: part of a special carbount program within CARES.

1672
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 3: This was complete bullshit.

1673
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 1: In fact, in twenty twenty two, the House issued a

1674
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: scathing report to denouncing the decision as politically driven, including

1675
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: direct intervention that may have gone all the way to

1676
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,639
Speaker 1: the big guy, Donald Trump himself. What made this massive

1677
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 1: bailance even more extraordinary is that Yellow was actually being

1678
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: sued by the government for overcharging the Department of Defense

1679
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 1: for trucking services, a suit that was eventually settled for

1680
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: millions of dollars.

1681
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 3: So you see how this works.

1682
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 1: Kushner used White House access to help out Apollo. Apollo

1683
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,759
Speaker 1: returns the favor with a big loan to Kushner. Kushner

1684
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: returns that favor with a massive bailant to an Apollo company,

1685
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,599
Speaker 1: and round and round the favor, trading for elites who

1686
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 1: can fail and screw up in every way possible, but

1687
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 1: still somehow secure the sweetheart.

1688
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:00,719
Speaker 3: Deal they need when they needed.

1689
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 1: And you know what, if the company had actually been

1690
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 1: able to turn itself around keep those workers employed, that

1691
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 1: would be one thing. But even with tax payers bailing

1692
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:13,719
Speaker 1: their asses out, they still were not able to turn around.

1693
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: And now about thirty thousand workers are facing unemployment and

1694
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: we are stuck with the bill. To add insult to injury,

1695
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 1: the company and some in the media have had the

1696
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:24,839
Speaker 1: temerity to blame Yellow Workers for this disgraceful state of affairs,

1697
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 1: blaming the union strike notice for the company's failure. Words

1698
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 1: cannot describe how misleading this is. Yes, negotiations between the

1699
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: union and the company were increasingly acrimonious as the company

1700
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: entered its death rattle phase, but the workers.

1701
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 3: Had every reason to be pissed off.

1702
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: Under self inflicted financial pressure combined with a post pandemic

1703
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 1: freight slowdown, the company decided to skip required payments for

1704
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 1: worker pensions and healthcare. What that meant is that workers

1705
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: were facing expulsion from their pension plans and complete loss

1706
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: of the healthcare that they had been promised as part

1707
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:57,560
Speaker 1: of their employment.

1708
01:21:58,040 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 3: I suspect you.

1709
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:02,839
Speaker 1: Would probably be pretty pissed off too, but no, As always,

1710
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: workers were expected to just take this quietly, along with taxpayers,

1711
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 1: eat the losses forged by decades of failed company management,

1712
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 1: and when they didn't, they got blamed for not sitting

1713
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: down and taking it on the chin and bailing the

1714
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,640
Speaker 1: company out once again. They're like eighteen elements of the

1715
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,639
Speaker 1: story that are just absolutely classic American capitalism, favor trading,

1716
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: sweetheart deals, scapegoating workers and unions for daring to speak

1717
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: up while they are getting screwed, socializing the losses to

1718
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 1: taxpayers while privatizing any potential gains. But yeah, let's just

1719
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: pretend this country is a free market meritocracy where the

1720
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 1: brilliant and deserving succeed instead of the connected and the craven,

1721
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 1: where the elites can never fail, they can only be failed.

1722
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 1: And by the way, where corruption gets a pass if

1723
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: it's corruption from your own side of the aisle. But hey,

1724
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:47,679
Speaker 1: Lee Kushner got a skyscraper loan. This one was really

1725
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 1: when I started reading into the details.

1726
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

1727
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1728
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 1: So very excited to be joined by two gentlemen who

1729
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,440
Speaker 1: make the case for and against these latest Trump indictments.

1730
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 1: We've got Ben Weingarten. He is a senior contributor to

1731
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,600
Speaker 1: the Federalists. And we also have Bradley Moss rejoining us

1732
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: on the show. He is a national security lawyer. Super

1733
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: grateful to both of you for joining us this morning.

1734
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 2: Good to see you guys.

1735
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 9: Absolutely happy to be here.

1736
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 1: All right, So let's just start by sort of laying

1737
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:22,200
Speaker 1: on our positions here. Brad explained to us your thoughts

1738
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:23,839
Speaker 1: on these led us side of Trump and Dimonds.

1739
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 11: Sure, so, the new indictment is sort of what we

1740
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 11: always expected was going to come out of the January

1741
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 11: sixth investigation, given where the grand jury testimony we were

1742
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 11: hearing about and all this various media reporting was going

1743
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 11: quite simply it's a very clear cut, in direct indictmed

1744
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 11: It doesn't get into issues about insurrection, doesn't get in

1745
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 11: issues about seditious conspiracy TI to they'll keep first in

1746
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 11: the first amendmentsues. All it does is just very simply

1747
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 11: the idea of Donald Trump was told by every one

1748
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 11: of the government, told by every one of the White House,

1749
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 11: told BYO his own campaign advisors, told by his own

1750
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 11: personal lawyers. You lost the election. These fraud allegations have

1751
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 11: no merit. There's certainly nothing to warrant overturning anything, or

1752
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 11: to believe is there going to be any merit to

1753
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 11: the lawsuits.

1754
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 9: He said, that's nice. I don't care.

1755
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 11: I'm going to go find some other lawyers who are

1756
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 11: going to tell me something otherwise, give you some fantasies

1757
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 11: that I'm going to start conspiring with them to try

1758
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 11: to get fake electors.

1759
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 9: Coordinated, to submit paperwork.

1760
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 11: To get Jeffrey Clark installed, to use the power of

1761
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 11: the DOJ and then to try to leverage that power

1762
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 11: against Mike Pence to stop it from doing his duty

1763
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 11: on January sixth. That is the crux of the case.

1764
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 11: It's not about speech, it's about conduct.

1765
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 2: Ben give us the counter case.

1766
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 13: Well, first, I think it's notable that jack Smith kind

1767
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 13: of wants to have it both ways. He wants to

1768
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:00,719
Speaker 13: create the appearance that Trump insided an insurrection, are engaged

1769
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 13: in seditious conspiracy, but doesn't charge him accordingly, which I

1770
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:08,719
Speaker 13: think points to the political nature of the indictment. Of course,

1771
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 13: on top of the timing that just so happens to

1772
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:16,759
Speaker 13: drop as arguably impeachable or pointing towards impeachable conduct continues

1773
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 13: to filter out around the bidens. Set aside the political

1774
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 13: aspect for a moment, I'll address the merits. So to

1775
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 13: some extent, I agree with Bradley, except that I.

1776
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:30,080
Speaker 2: Do believe that this is, at the end of the day.

1777
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:34,679
Speaker 13: About speech, because in addition to the political aspect of

1778
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 13: the indictment, there's the fact that Special Counsel Jacksmith also

1779
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 13: apparently is a mind reader, and what he is arguing

1780
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:43,680
Speaker 13: here is that all of these people, many of them

1781
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 13: by the way, who were not Trump allies in any way.

1782
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 13: But set that aside for a moment, like as if

1783
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 13: some government bureaucrat tells Donald Trump something that's going to

1784
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 13: sway him, and he must have known, essentially what the

1785
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:58,720
Speaker 13: case boils down to is Trump knew he lost but

1786
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 13: claim that he won, and so everything that he tried

1787
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 13: to do to pursue every single possible remedy, Pleading to

1788
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 13: state legislatures, assembling alternate slates of electors, debating with Vice

1789
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:14,400
Speaker 13: President Pence and others about what could be done with

1790
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 13: respect to certification, etc. All of that is evidence of

1791
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,799
Speaker 13: a fraudulent conspiracy because he really knew that he lost.

1792
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 13: And so jack Smith is going to have to prove

1793
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 13: that he can get inside Donald Trump's mind, know what

1794
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:31,440
Speaker 13: he truly believed in his heart, that all the advisors

1795
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 13: around him conspired to defraud the American people, and that

1796
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 13: there was this malign intent.

1797
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 2: Associated with it as well.

1798
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:41,760
Speaker 13: And I think it's very telling by the way that

1799
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,679
Speaker 13: in addition to the case boiling down to Trump knew

1800
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 13: he lost but claimed he won, and then everything that

1801
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:51,759
Speaker 13: he did after that was fraudulent. There's also the aspect

1802
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 13: of the fact that Jacksmith had to twist and contort

1803
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:59,200
Speaker 13: these statutes to try and fit the case. These shoehorn

1804
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 13: these charges that have really never been applied in any

1805
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 13: sort of analogous situation.

1806
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,799
Speaker 9: A couple of them being, first, this invocation.

1807
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 13: Of this charge, which is usually used for law enforcement

1808
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 13: abuses or hate crimes, for example, which I think is

1809
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 13: attempted in part to smear President Trump, but which really

1810
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 13: has no relevance to this idea of depriving people of

1811
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 13: their right to vote somehow. And then the substruction of

1812
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 13: an official preceding charge, which had never been applied previously

1813
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 13: to political protests but then was applied for the first

1814
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 13: time in a novel way with respect to the Gen

1815
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 13: Six protests. This is a Sarbins Oxley slash Enron driven law,

1816
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:45,679
Speaker 13: and it's probably going to come before the Supreme Court

1817
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 13: whether or not that could even be applied to protests.

1818
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 13: But it's not as if Jack Smith has even necessarily

1819
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 13: drawing a direct line to Donald Trump led these protests,

1820
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 13: in cited them, led a riot, etc. So from my

1821
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 13: vantage point, this is trying to fit statue to meet

1822
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,639
Speaker 13: what are in effect thought crimes, even if the idea

1823
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,679
Speaker 13: is they're fraudulent actions, because the actions are made fraudulent

1824
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 13: by the fact that Donald Trump really knew he lost

1825
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 13: but claimed he won.

1826
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 2: Anyway, let me.

1827
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 1: Focus on that part and then I'll get Broadley to

1828
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: respond on the peace regarding the charges themselves, and whether

1829
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:20,920
Speaker 1: these are the appropriate things to have been charged. But

1830
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 1: on this idea that Trump or any reasonable person with

1831
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 1: the information that Trump had knew that what he was

1832
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 1: saying was bogus, let me go ahead and put G

1833
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 1: two up on the screen. Here, we've got a list

1834
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 1: of all the people who told Trump that he was wrong.

1835
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:39,320
Speaker 3: Most of these are Republicans.

1836
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:42,599
Speaker 1: You've got Mike Pence, senior leaders of the Justice Department,

1837
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Director of National Intelligence, Department of Homeland Security, Cybersecurity and

1838
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 1: Infrastructure Security Agency, senior White House attorneys. Go on to

1839
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,720
Speaker 1: the next page here as well, guys, I've got an

1840
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:55,400
Speaker 1: additional list here, senior staffers on the reelection campaign, state

1841
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 1: legislators and officials, state and federal courts. And in addition,

1842
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 1: actually put the next piece up on the screen as well.

1843
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 1: You have a part that I think relates to Sidney

1844
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 1: Powell with regard to one of the key swing states here, Georgia.

1845
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 1: They say in the indictment that on November twenty fifth,

1846
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,799
Speaker 1: co conspirator three, which everyone thinks of Sidney Powell, filed

1847
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: lawsuit against the governor of Georgia, falsely alleging massive election

1848
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 1: fraud accomplished through the voting machine companies, election software and hardware.

1849
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 1: Before the lawsuit was even filed, Trump retweeted a post

1850
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:26,600
Speaker 1: promoting it.

1851
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:28,120
Speaker 3: Trump did this.

1852
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 1: Despite the fact that when he had discussed Sidney Pal's

1853
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 1: far fetched public claims regarding the voting machine company. I

1854
01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 1: presume this is dominion in private with advisors, Trump had

1855
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 1: conceded they were unsupported and that co conspirator three sounded crazy.

1856
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 1: Co conspirator Georgia lawsuit was dismissed on December seventh. So, Bradley,

1857
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:53,240
Speaker 1: can you explain from your perspective, how central to this

1858
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:56,799
Speaker 1: case is it that they're able to prove that Donald

1859
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:00,719
Speaker 1: Trump actually knew that the things that he was saying

1860
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 1: were complete and utter nonsense.

1861
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1862
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,639
Speaker 11: No, it's very significant, and a lot of the evidence

1863
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 11: that we will presumably see if this gets to trial

1864
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 11: will be part and parcel what Donald Trump said to

1865
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 11: people in private, what he was telling people in these

1866
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 11: various meetings when they were discussing the Crackpot lawsuit. Sidney

1867
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 11: Powell was bringing the Crackpot lawsuits. Rudy Giuliani, who was

1868
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 11: trying to bring the insane idea is being provided by

1869
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:32,559
Speaker 11: Jeffrey Clark and John Eastman, all these things combined showing

1870
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 11: that not only had he been told by not just

1871
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 11: some random bureaucrat, his own appointees in government, there is

1872
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 11: no truth to this, his own lawyers in the White House,

1873
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 11: there is no truth to this. His own paid campaign

1874
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:46,759
Speaker 11: staff let Jason Miller telling him there is no truth

1875
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 11: to this, and he privately says, yeah, these people are

1876
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:52,160
Speaker 11: all nuts and crazy. But then he keeps going forward

1877
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 11: with it. He's signing verified complaints in states and submitting

1878
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 11: paperwork saying, yeah, these allegations are actually drew in the

1879
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:01,000
Speaker 11: courts of order ruled at least in one of those

1880
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:03,560
Speaker 11: instances that was not accurate.

1881
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 9: He knew these were false.

1882
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 11: He did not care because he wanted to hold on

1883
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 11: to power and to address you know, kind of Ben's

1884
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 11: point of will, Jacksmith had to be a mind reader. No,

1885
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 11: this is what prosecutors have to do all the time

1886
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:22,840
Speaker 11: in intent cases. Juries can infer intent based off conduct

1887
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 11: in private, separate remarks made by the person to other individuals.

1888
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:30,439
Speaker 11: This will be stuff that obviously, Donald Trump lawyers will

1889
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:32,639
Speaker 11: try to fight and pretrial motions, they'll try.

1890
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:34,720
Speaker 9: To attack the sufficiency sufficiency of.

1891
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 11: It at trial. If needs be, but this is not novel.

1892
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 11: Prosecutors do this every single day.

1893
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 2: So Ben, I want to get into kind of what

1894
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,639
Speaker 2: you were talking over there about statute and in terms

1895
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 2: of the application of statute here, both on civil rights

1896
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:51,679
Speaker 2: law the deprivation of the right to vote. I've heard

1897
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:54,640
Speaker 2: this discussed a lot in conservative circles. I'd like for

1898
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 2: you to explain it a little bit more specifically on

1899
01:31:57,240 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 2: the civil rights piece.

1900
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:00,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1901
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 13: Well, I mean, what the indictment itself says is that

1902
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 13: he was trying to effectively invalidate people's votes. And I

1903
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:11,479
Speaker 13: think you know very clearly what the Trump response would

1904
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:13,879
Speaker 13: be is, actually, I wanted to make sure that people's

1905
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:17,200
Speaker 13: votes weren't deluded by the fact that there may have

1906
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 13: been unlawfully cast ballots, or ballots that were accepted after

1907
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 13: the time they should have been, or the fact that

1908
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 13: masses of ballots might never have even gone through the

1909
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:31,720
Speaker 13: wire had changes to election rules and law not been

1910
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 13: made by state executives rather than legislators. And you know,

1911
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,080
Speaker 13: of course, the government is going to make the case,

1912
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 13: and it's worth noting that all of the assertions in

1913
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:41,599
Speaker 13: the indictment, of course, are going to present the worst

1914
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 13: possible case for Trump, and Trump is going to marshal

1915
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:46,400
Speaker 13: a substantial amount of evidence on the other side and

1916
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 13: maybe get into discovery, and we'll see where that goes.

1917
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 13: But I think that that argument can be probably pretty

1918
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 13: quickly dispensed with. In addition to the fact that, again

1919
01:32:57,439 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 13: if you just go on the Department of Justices Civil

1920
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 13: Rights Divisis website, they lay out what this I believe

1921
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:05,680
Speaker 13: it's eighteen in the US Code two forty one. If

1922
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 13: you look at what it's applied for, it has nothing

1923
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 13: to do with one's vote. And even if it does

1924
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 13: get to dealing with the idea of Trump was trying

1925
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:16,160
Speaker 13: to invalidate pete lawful votes on the merits, I think

1926
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 13: that argument probably fails on.

1927
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:19,839
Speaker 2: The legal merits.

1928
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:23,480
Speaker 13: But all of that said, the politics here is obviously integral.

1929
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 13: Who knows to the extent this actually does go to

1930
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 13: trial how long the case goes, and Jack Smith obviously has.

1931
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 2: Said he wants to expedite it.

1932
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 13: But I think at the end of the day, Donald

1933
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:36,320
Speaker 13: Trump is going up against probably the most inhospitable and

1934
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 13: hostile judge he could possibly find in a January sixth

1935
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 13: related case, and a jury pool that's almost one hundred

1936
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 13: percent Democrat and certainly anti Trump. So I think it'll

1937
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 13: be a huge uphill battle within that case. And what'll

1938
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 13: be interesting to see is to the extent it does

1939
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 13: go to trial again, what comes it out in that discovery.

1940
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 3: Those are all great points.

1941
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 1: Bradley, Can you respond to this piece that Ben has

1942
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:03,920
Speaker 1: raised about the specific charges, not only the civil rights charge,

1943
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:08,080
Speaker 1: but the appropriateness that you see to the charges that

1944
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:11,479
Speaker 1: have been laid out in the indictment, and also talk

1945
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:13,760
Speaker 1: to us a little bit about how some of them

1946
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 1: have been used against other January sixth definances as well.

1947
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:20,320
Speaker 11: Sure to go to Ben's point about the Civil Rights Statute,

1948
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 11: it's been used in recent years against anyone who's tried

1949
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,840
Speaker 11: to dilute or tried to deprive someone else of having

1950
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 11: their lawful ballot being counted. So in the context of

1951
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:33,959
Speaker 11: Donald Trump, where they're going with this is the efforts

1952
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 11: to have ballots thrown out in Detroit, the efforts to

1953
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:39,280
Speaker 11: have ballots thrown out in Philadelphia and Atlanta.

1954
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 9: The idea is.

1955
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 11: That it's not just saying we want to make sure

1956
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,400
Speaker 11: this was done properly. You could have speech along those lines,

1957
01:34:46,439 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 11: that's fine, but that he was told again by his

1958
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:52,759
Speaker 11: own government, by his own lawyers, there is no merit

1959
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,280
Speaker 11: to these claims that the ballots weren't properly cast, or

1960
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 11: there was fraudulent ballots thrown into boxes, or Rudi Giuliani's

1961
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 11: you know, crackpot ideas about the two workers in Atlanta.

1962
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:05,439
Speaker 11: He was told there's no merit to this, and he's

1963
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:08,920
Speaker 11: still pushing the Georgia Secretary of State saying I need

1964
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 11: to get eleven thousand votes to dilute the votes of

1965
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,000
Speaker 11: those who were lawfully cast.

1966
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:15,440
Speaker 9: And I'm sorry that it hurts.

1967
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 2: His feelings, but he lost in Georgia.

1968
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 9: They didn't vote for him. That's the reality, you know.

1969
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:24,160
Speaker 9: And it goes to the whole point with these.

1970
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 11: Other charges conspiracy to defraud that's been brought up throughout

1971
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,920
Speaker 11: the January sixth stuff, and every time it's come up

1972
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,879
Speaker 11: on appeal, it's been upheld in terms of the government's

1973
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:36,720
Speaker 11: indication of it to conspiracy to defraud or conspiracy to

1974
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 11: obstruct official proceedings. I'm sorry it applies to this concept.

1975
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 11: It applies to these efforts, you know, not just January

1976
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:47,000
Speaker 11: six rioters.

1977
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:47,679
Speaker 9: But to Donald Trump.

1978
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 11: You tried to stop the lawful certification of the Electoral

1979
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 11: College votes.

1980
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 9: End of discussion, you did, It's done.

1981
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:57,040
Speaker 13: I don't know that at the end of discussion on

1982
01:35:57,080 --> 01:36:00,400
Speaker 13: the obstruction of an official proceeding aspect of it, because

1983
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:03,080
Speaker 13: again I think you would concede. This has never been

1984
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:06,719
Speaker 13: applied before in this sort of instance. Until January sixth.

1985
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:09,599
Speaker 13: We've never had this applied before in terms of other

1986
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:15,000
Speaker 13: protests or riots outside a proceeding or that disrupted a proceeding.

1987
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 13: And not every appeals court judge when this did go

1988
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 13: to a.

1989
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:22,400
Speaker 2: Higher court, did agree with that assertion. And there's a.

1990
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 13: Reason why there's an application right now at least one

1991
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:28,040
Speaker 13: or two for the Supreme Court to hear this argument.

1992
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 13: So I don't think that we have the final word

1993
01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:32,640
Speaker 13: on the obstruction of an official proceeding. But to your

1994
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 13: point about all of these different individuals, experts, authority is

1995
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:39,839
Speaker 13: telling Donald Trump one thing, and he zagged where they zigged.

1996
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 13: I mean, first of all, that's pretty common in the

1997
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,360
Speaker 13: Donald Trump White House. Second of all, if you're talking

1998
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 13: about a president and you're charging a president, and this

1999
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 13: is for conduct when he was a president, and yes,

2000
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:52,000
Speaker 13: we are, of course in the middle of an election

2001
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 13: where his successor and chief opponent, his DOJ is the

2002
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:57,719
Speaker 13: one bringing this case. The bar has to be really

2003
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 13: high and really clear cut. Now, Brad, you're making the case.

2004
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:03,559
Speaker 13: It is really clear cut here. But what I would

2005
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 13: say is these are political questions at the end of

2006
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 13: the day. They have not been dealt with, typically in

2007
01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:12,120
Speaker 13: a court of law, and in fact, the political system

2008
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 13: and the legal system did check Donald Trump during twenty twenty.

2009
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:20,360
Speaker 13: So why is this indictment being dropped now when to

2010
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:22,720
Speaker 13: some extent this was already dealt with in an impeachment

2011
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:26,200
Speaker 13: proceeding where he was acquitted in the Senate. Well, I

2012
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:28,640
Speaker 13: think the thing speaks for itself it being in the

2013
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 13: middle of an election, and I think there are many

2014
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:34,400
Speaker 13: political aims to this. One of them is I think

2015
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 13: the left and Democrats believe that making Republicans have to

2016
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 13: grapple with January sixth or quote unquote election denialism is

2017
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 13: going to be a winning political argument's say.

2018
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:47,280
Speaker 2: Another aspect is that.

2019
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:50,439
Speaker 1: The politics of it I want to kind of put aside,

2020
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 1: because the piece that you guys are really experts on

2021
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 1: that we want your analysis on is that the legal

2022
01:37:55,080 --> 01:37:57,960
Speaker 1: piece of this been. One of the things I'm curious

2023
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:01,320
Speaker 1: for you about is number one, what do you think

2024
01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 1: is the most difficult piece of this indictment for Trump?

2025
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:08,320
Speaker 1: The evidence that's proffered here that looks the worst. And

2026
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:11,200
Speaker 1: number two, if you think that there was no there

2027
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:13,679
Speaker 1: there and these offenses really weren't chargeable, and these weren't

2028
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:16,960
Speaker 1: the right charges, et cetera, et cetera, where would be

2029
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 1: the line, like, what would Trump have had to have

2030
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 1: done for you to say, naw, he crossed the line,

2031
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:26,120
Speaker 1: this was actually criminal, He should be charged, there should

2032
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:26,880
Speaker 1: be accountability.

2033
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:30,840
Speaker 13: Well, I think on the second point, and I'll have

2034
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:33,360
Speaker 13: to think through a specific to it, but it has

2035
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:38,479
Speaker 13: to be incredibly clear that someone actually had intent, they knew,

2036
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 13: they had proven data in front of them, and it

2037
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:46,040
Speaker 13: was clear beyond any reasonable doubt whatsoever. And obviously you're

2038
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 13: gonna have jurors who are going to have to make

2039
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:50,559
Speaker 13: this call sure that what was being done was obviously

2040
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 13: an intent to pull the wool over people's eyes. Setting aside,

2041
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 13: you know that there weren't millions of people who had

2042
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:00,680
Speaker 13: questions about an unprecedented election with unprecedented the rule and

2043
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:02,439
Speaker 13: law changes as.

2044
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 3: Questions because of what Trump was saying.

2045
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 2: But go on, Well, I think.

2046
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:08,960
Speaker 9: Questions are not approved.

2047
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,000
Speaker 13: Okay, well, let me just say this is the first

2048
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:12,960
Speaker 13: I think we'd all we'd all acknowledge this is the

2049
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 13: first mass mail in ballot general election we ever had

2050
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:18,080
Speaker 13: in our lifetime. And I think we can all agree

2051
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:21,960
Speaker 13: also that executives made changes to laws down the stretch

2052
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:25,559
Speaker 13: of a campaign that we have not seen historically. But

2053
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:28,400
Speaker 13: even if you dispute that, if you're asking me, what

2054
01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:31,920
Speaker 13: do I think is that the most difficult aspects of

2055
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,960
Speaker 13: the indictment to defend? I think you have aspects of

2056
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 13: For example, I think that there's some insinuation or allegation

2057
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:46,400
Speaker 13: that Trump asserted or he signed off and verified certain

2058
01:39:46,479 --> 01:39:49,599
Speaker 13: information that Jack Smith claims, and I think this might

2059
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 13: have been I don't know if this was respect to

2060
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 13: certification with respect to electors. He signed off on the

2061
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:59,160
Speaker 13: fact that something was true as he understood it, but

2062
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:02,480
Speaker 13: at the time there is knowledge or there was indication

2063
01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 13: in correspondence that he knew it was not true. You know,

2064
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 13: certainly to the extent you signed off on a document

2065
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,439
Speaker 13: to a court or another official body, and there's going

2066
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 13: to be evidence presented to show that actually you did

2067
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 13: know what was true and you signed off on something

2068
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:19,880
Speaker 13: that was false. Obviously that's going to be a challenge

2069
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 13: in court. Jonathan Turley has raised the point though, that

2070
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:23,719
Speaker 13: you're going to be able to argue, well.

2071
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 2: This is what lawyers advised me, et cetera.

2072
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:27,200
Speaker 9: So got it.

2073
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 13: You know, lawyers are obviously going to be able to

2074
01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:31,000
Speaker 13: craft great arguments on both sides. But I would point

2075
01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 13: to that as probably one aspect that would be a challenge.

2076
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:37,080
Speaker 1: And Brad a similar sort of in reverse question for

2077
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 1: you if you were advising Trump, if you were his lawyer,

2078
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:43,360
Speaker 1: stepped up to the plate, what sort of a defense

2079
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:45,360
Speaker 1: would you try to mount? What do you think is

2080
01:40:45,400 --> 01:40:47,799
Speaker 1: his strongest argument to try to combat these charges.

2081
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,120
Speaker 11: I would throw every single one of his former lawyers

2082
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 11: under the bus and put all the blame on them.

2083
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:59,360
Speaker 11: Now here's the problem. They're his listed co conspirators. It's

2084
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:03,360
Speaker 11: Rudy Julie, It's Sidney pollit's Johnny he's been Jeff Clark, Kenchee's.

2085
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,400
Speaker 11: I would throw them all into the bus, say these

2086
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:08,920
Speaker 11: people led him astray. Yes he had this other information

2087
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:11,640
Speaker 11: from the government. Yes, his own campaign was coming to

2088
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 11: him and saying this is all garbage, and these people

2089
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 11: have conspiracies being down from the mothership. But I would

2090
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:19,880
Speaker 11: throw these folks under the bus, saying he believed in

2091
01:41:19,920 --> 01:41:23,559
Speaker 11: good faith, he understood that their allegations on his mind,

2092
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 11: had credibility. Sidney Powell, this grand lawyer, had these affidavits

2093
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 11: from Spider and all these other people who claim they

2094
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:34,479
Speaker 11: had proof of these voting fraud issues, and so that

2095
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 11: was the basis on which he moved forward with things.

2096
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:40,080
Speaker 11: I would chuck every single one of these people under

2097
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 11: the bus in a desperate attempt to save the client.

2098
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:45,120
Speaker 9: It won't work.

2099
01:41:45,479 --> 01:41:49,360
Speaker 11: You can't conspire with your lawyer to commit a new crime.

2100
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:52,240
Speaker 11: But that's what I would try to do in some

2101
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 11: bid to basically push off blame, which is what every

2102
01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 11: good head of a criminal enterprise does, to blame it

2103
01:41:58,560 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 11: on the lawyers.

2104
01:41:59,280 --> 01:41:59,599
Speaker 9: First.

2105
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 1: Interesting, gentlemen, really appreciate both of you taking the time.

2106
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:06,639
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back and join us again as

2107
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:07,680
Speaker 1: this case unfolds.

2108
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:08,400
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

2109
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 2: Thank you guys, appreciate it.

2110
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 9: Have a good one.

2111
01:42:11,240 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 3: It's our pleasure, all right.

2112
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:14,240
Speaker 2: We'll see you guys later. We appreciate it. Thanks to

2113
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:16,760
Speaker 2: all the Premium members we've been signing up, encouraging and

2114
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:19,519
Speaker 2: building a space where we can have that that conversation

2115
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 2: on TV would have evolved into a complete nightmare. Nobody

2116
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 2: actually would have been able to talk. Uh, you know what,

2117
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 2: that's actually moments when I appreciate our show most, I'm like,

2118
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:29,400
Speaker 2: I'm learning from both of you. I'm like, oh, that's

2119
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:31,559
Speaker 2: an interesting point. I'm Miro. I've taking notes here and

2120
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:33,320
Speaker 2: writing it down, so I hope that you guys get

2121
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:35,760
Speaker 2: also as much as we do out of the show.

2122
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:38,600
Speaker 2: We appreciate everybody who helps support our work, from our

2123
01:42:38,640 --> 01:42:41,600
Speaker 2: premium members at Breakingpoints dot com. Otherwise, We'll see you

2124
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 2: all next week.