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Speaker 1: You and I are going to make me cry up here.

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Speaker 2: I'm awesome podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Chapter Podcast, and I'm Tvj's your hosts,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited today to present to you a very

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Speaker 1: very special guest, my daughter. A renowned pastor, entrepreneur. She's

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Speaker 1: also a New York Times best selling author as CEO

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Speaker 1: of Woman Evolved. She's on a powerful mission to help

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Speaker 1: women evolve into the best version of themselves, earning her

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Speaker 1: recognition as a Time one hundred Next honoree. She's also

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Speaker 1: a powerful wife and daughter, and I'm glad to have

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Speaker 1: her with me today. Please welcome Sarah Jakes Roberts. Once again,

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Speaker 1: there's nobody I would rather interview than you. I'm invested

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Speaker 1: in you. I watch from one side, you watch from

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Speaker 1: the inside, and I watch you grow and develop. I'm

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Speaker 1: honored to have you here today to be a guest

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Speaker 1: on my podcast, and I thank you for taking the

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Speaker 1: time to make yourself available Number one Preacher's daughter. Life

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Speaker 1: is many splendid things, many chapters, many ups, many downs.

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Speaker 1: You have to have resilience in order to be able

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Speaker 1: to do it. I would love to take you back

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Speaker 1: to the days you were born. Yeah, all the way back.

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Speaker 1: I know you don't remember this, but I remember this.

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Speaker 1: I remember rushing up to the hospital with a little

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Speaker 1: red dress and some barettes, preparing to take you home

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Speaker 1: from the hospital in the heels of West Virginia. We

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Speaker 1: started out in Charleston, West Virginia. When you talk about that,

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Speaker 1: and when you think about that, you were my second daughter,

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Speaker 1: my youngest daughter, and I was excited and intimidated, really

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Speaker 1: making ends me, trying to make it do what to do.

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Speaker 1: And like most fathers, we get preoccupied in being protective

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Speaker 1: and being providers. But there's much more to parenting than

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Speaker 1: those two things alone, and you learn that as you

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Speaker 1: go along. What is your favorite memory from your childhood?

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Speaker 2: Oh? When I think about my childhood, I think about

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Speaker 2: a lot of times in the kitchen with my siblings,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately because they yet y' but you know, growing up

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Speaker 2: Jake's as I call it, is such a unique experience.

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Speaker 2: And not many people understand what it's like to be

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Speaker 2: normal and regular but to also have these expectations placed

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Speaker 2: on you. But in the context of me and these

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Speaker 2: four other people, we got it. And it was a

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Speaker 2: space to be normal and to explore our identities and

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Speaker 2: to get on each other's nerves and extept frigging, and

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Speaker 2: to love again and to make mistakes. And so I

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Speaker 2: think about it as again in the kitchen, washing dishes

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Speaker 2: and cleaning up and cracking jokes and talking about one another.

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Speaker 2: I feel like my siblings were so integral and my

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Speaker 2: identity development.

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Speaker 1: I think about all the stuff you all cooked, learning

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Speaker 1: to cook, that you experimented on me. I'm glad to

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Speaker 1: be alive. Yeah, I ate it, whether it was good

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Speaker 1: or not. Now her mother is a different story, but

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Speaker 1: I ate it all. And now they can both cook

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Speaker 1: like amazing, like in fact, all three of them, for

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Speaker 1: them actually are great cooks. And my stomach was a incubator,

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Speaker 1: the tube, the test tube.

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Speaker 2: Argue that it added length to your years, the resilience, yes,

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Speaker 2: love that you experienced, yes, yes, some some.

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Speaker 1: Could argue that some could argue that I had my

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Speaker 1: stomach pump. How was it being one of the youngest siblings. Things?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, even though I'm one of

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Speaker 2: the youngest, I don't feel like I'm one of the youngest. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I feel like and perhaps it's because I had to

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Speaker 2: grow up so fast. Maybe it's because I'm naturally a

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Speaker 2: little bit more maternal, but I always felt like I

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Speaker 2: could provide some element of caretaking as it related to

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Speaker 2: my siblings. So on one hand, I was the youngest, but

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Speaker 2: also I felt like I took on a lot of

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Speaker 2: the responsibilities. It's just nurturing and care if you guys

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Speaker 2: were traveling or out of town. And I feel like

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Speaker 2: in many ways that that shaped who I am today

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Speaker 2: as it relates to a sense of responsibility.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you say that, because I'm the

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Speaker 1: youngest in my family, but a lot of the responsibility

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Speaker 1: fell on me, and so I really didn't feel babied

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Speaker 1: as much as I felt responsible. And I had to

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Speaker 1: be responsible in part because of my father's illness and

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Speaker 1: all the things that went along with that. There was

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Speaker 1: no room in our lives for me to be a child.

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Speaker 1: I had to grow up fast. You had to grow

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Speaker 1: up fast, found yourself in a situation where you had

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Speaker 1: to be both a daughter and a mama at the

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Speaker 1: same time, and you had to be responsible enough emotionally

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Speaker 1: and mentally to handle it. That's a lot of weight

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Speaker 1: to put on a person. It's a lot of weight.

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Speaker 1: What is your funniest memory with your simblings.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that they're appropriate for the next y.

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest. You know, those those rascals really were

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Speaker 2: something else to raise. But you know, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: we grew up in a generation where, you know, redirection

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Speaker 2: had many expressions, and and redirection from your parents came

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Speaker 2: through through many different types of expression. And I think

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Speaker 2: some of my favorite memories were probably my ear to

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Speaker 2: the door as redirection was being given to some of

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Speaker 2: my siblings. See, yeah, that you're hustling, that came along

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Speaker 2: with that.

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Speaker 1: You like that you made me look good? You made

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Speaker 1: me look good. Yeah, I appreciate that. In other words, uh,

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Speaker 1: let's leave it the way you Chapter number two teen pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: What was one of your most embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: Moments as you can probably my pregnancy? Really, Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I think when most people think embarrassed, we're thinking like

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Speaker 2: you felled out the steps, or you did something that

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Speaker 2: in time you could look back and say it wasn't

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Speaker 2: that big of a deal. But I know that that

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Speaker 2: pregnancy marks me so greatly that even when I reflect

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Speaker 2: on my childhood, I have this overwhelming sense of fear

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Speaker 2: and anxiety that overshadows the joy that I know was there,

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Speaker 2: but I just think that that experience shaped so much

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Speaker 2: of how I saw everything that happened in my life,

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Speaker 2: and that pregnancy having to find a way to keep

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Speaker 2: my head up and still going to church. And the

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Speaker 2: thing about teen pregnancy is like, it's not one of

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Speaker 2: those things where it's just a church rule, right, Like

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Speaker 2: I think that you can do things that aren't acceptable

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Speaker 2: in church, but you can go into the world and

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Speaker 2: they're like, child that ain't nothing. But teen pregnancy is

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Speaker 2: one of those things that whether you're in the church

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Speaker 2: with a greencery store, people realize that there's something that's

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Speaker 2: happened here that is out of sequence. And so the

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Speaker 2: weight of existing with you know, this proverbial scarlet letter

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Speaker 2: was the most embarrassing thing that I felt like I

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Speaker 2: had to deal with. But also I really feel like,

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Speaker 2: because of my personality, because of how disconnected I felt

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Speaker 2: from faith, that my son really protected me. I think

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Speaker 2: that in the moment, I saw it as embarrassment, but

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Speaker 2: I think that he gave me this sense of identity,

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Speaker 2: this sense of responsibility where I couldn't go too far.

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Speaker 2: I think I would have been a lot more adventurous,

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Speaker 2: a lot more dangerous a lot more disposable as it

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Speaker 2: related to my worth and identity if I didn't have

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Speaker 2: this little person counting on me. And so he gave

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Speaker 2: me a grounding and a weight that I think I

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Speaker 2: needed at an early age, because I think later teen's

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Speaker 2: early twenties, without having him in my life, that I

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Speaker 2: don't know that I would be here now cause you

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Speaker 2: know I was down for whatever with the baby. Well

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Speaker 2: do you know next time? Just all truth? But I

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Speaker 2: just he became gravity for me in a world that

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Speaker 2: was spinning very fast and a life where I wasn't

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Speaker 2: always sure that I fit. My son became this puzzle

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Speaker 2: piece that I knew I had to hang on to.

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Speaker 2: And so though publicly there was some embarrassment, I think

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Speaker 2: the process of time has been built to me that

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Speaker 2: I needed him to tether me into something that was real.

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Speaker 1: You know one thing I'm wondering about in between all

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Speaker 1: of that, Before all of that happened, we were in

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Speaker 1: West Virginia, Yeah, and moving from West Virginia to Dallas.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that because by that time, my

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Speaker 1: ministry was exploding and I was twing Megafest and Woman

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Speaker 1: Are Loose was exploding, traveling all over the world on

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Speaker 1: the cover of magazines, and all of a sudden people

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Speaker 1: had a microscope and a telescope into our house and

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Speaker 1: into our lives. Do you think it would have been

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Speaker 1: easier to navigate had we had you gone through there

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Speaker 1: while we were in West Virginia.

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Speaker 2: No, let me tell you why, because you know I

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Speaker 2: had to look at this through several lenses. I think

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Speaker 2: that more than anything, I think that because your life

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Speaker 2: took off so rapidly, yes, that we needed an interpreter,

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Speaker 2: a translator, And I'm not sure that we would have

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Speaker 2: had that in West Virginia or Texas, someone that this

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Speaker 2: is what's happening, this is where you fit, it's okay.

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Speaker 2: And I think that things just took off so quick Well,

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Speaker 2: I guess i'd have to ask you, do you think

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Speaker 2: that had we lived in West Virginia and maybe things

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Speaker 2: hadn't taken off field quickly, do you think that it

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Speaker 2: would have maybe shifted the presence and ability to kind

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Speaker 2: of help us navigate what was happening not just in

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Speaker 2: your world but in our own little versions of development

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Speaker 2: and change and puberty.

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Speaker 1: And I think it would have been in some ways,

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Speaker 1: I think it would have been tougher because small towns

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Speaker 1: have a tendency to be peyton place and everybody's whispering

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Speaker 1: and everybody's talking. It's a different kind of traumas. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about the news reporters and the

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Speaker 1: cover of magazines and all that kind of stuff, but

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Speaker 1: you have to worry about the beauty shop and the

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Speaker 1: barbershop and all the people whispering about all those sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. The one thing that gives that some advantages.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of women related to your story

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Speaker 1: in the most amazing way. Fast forward to I never

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Speaker 1: said anything, So they need to understand that I never

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Speaker 1: publicly said anything all throughout the pregnancy because I felt

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Speaker 1: like it was your story to tell. And I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of times parents take it upon themselves to

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Speaker 1: tell their children's story before they're ready emotionally to be

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Speaker 1: able to handle it. And I wanted you to handle

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Speaker 1: it in your own words and in your own language.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know you were going to handle it while

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Speaker 1: you were introducing me in front of about twenty thousand

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Speaker 1: people as we had woman and I are loose at Lakewood.

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Speaker 2: I had my son Alki at the age of fourteen

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Speaker 2: and there are no thoughts in the room that I

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Speaker 2: hadn't and one time thought about myself, and I remember

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Speaker 2: after coming back to church, my dad made now can

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Speaker 2: I stand up? And he welcomed us back into the service,

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Speaker 2: and I remember in that moment fling like she he

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Speaker 2: had my back.

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Speaker 1: What was that like for you? You know?

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Speaker 2: I kind of did it thinking that it would make

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Speaker 2: because I was blogging at the time. Okay, so I

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Speaker 2: started this blog, and at the time, I'm in my

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Speaker 2: first marriage and I'm trying to figure out some of

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Speaker 2: their recurring issues we were experiencing, and like, just how

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Speaker 2: did I get here where this is my definition of

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Speaker 2: love where I feel stubb where anger is the closest

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Speaker 2: emotion that I can feel. So I'm processing this through

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Speaker 2: a blog. And then I'd ended each blog kind of

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Speaker 2: like with a prayer or something that I would hope

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Speaker 2: someone would say to me. And people started saying, oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, it's so inspiring, or you gave me the

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Speaker 2: words that I didn't know what were tracked inside of me,

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Speaker 2: and they started calling me inspiring, and they started calling

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Speaker 2: me authentic and vulnerable, and it started to feel like

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Speaker 2: people were proud of me. People felt like this was ministry,

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Speaker 2: and I felt like, you know what, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: tell them that I got pregnant as a teenager, so

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Speaker 2: they will lead me, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 2: this is not ministry. I'm just a girl. This is

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Speaker 2: my story. And if I tell you this, then you will,

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Speaker 2: you know, go away, You'll say, oh my god, she's

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Speaker 2: not good enough, She's not this, she's not that. And

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Speaker 2: it was the very opposite thing that happened. Yes, shocking, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it continues to be shocking because whatever. We can

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Speaker 2: talk about that later. But yeah, it was very shocking

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Speaker 2: to me because I think I had some experiences that

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Speaker 2: grounded this theory in my head.

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Speaker 1: But the theory in.

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Speaker 2: My head was because you did this, you are not acceptable,

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Speaker 2: you are not adequate, you have no place in ministry,

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Speaker 2: and you should certainly not be talking about God. And

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Speaker 2: I think I had some experiences that kind of grounded that.

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Speaker 2: And so the fact that people kind of felt like,

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Speaker 2: maybe if she can figure out who God is, maybe

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Speaker 2: if grace exists for her, it exists for me as well.

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Speaker 2: And so I didn't know there were women who were

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Speaker 2: seventy years old coming up to me saying I have

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Speaker 2: a baby at thirteen two him like, these little secrets

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Speaker 2: that we were carrying around that were impacting who we

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Speaker 2: saw ourselves as and am impacting our ability to really

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Speaker 2: trust what guy says about us, because if I am

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Speaker 2: fearfully and wonderfully made, but what about this baby? What

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Speaker 2: about this abortion? What about this what about these things

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Speaker 2: that have happened to me? And you're telling me that

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Speaker 2: there's a guy who will overlook, not overlook, who will

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Speaker 2: see through them, because overlook makes it seem like he

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Speaker 2: doesn't look at them at all, but he will see

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Speaker 2: them and still say fearfully and wonderfully made and still say,

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Speaker 2: I know what you did to ease the pain, and

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Speaker 2: I still love you. There's still hope for you. And

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Speaker 2: I needed to believe that that was true, and I

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Speaker 2: think that they did too.

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Speaker 1: You know if what's really funny about that you walked

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Speaker 1: up on that stage expecting to be rejected, and so

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Speaker 1: did I. So did I I was a nobody would

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Speaker 1: publish Woman or Loose. When I first wrote the book,

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Speaker 1: nobody had any reference to men writing to women about

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Speaker 1: the trauma they've been through. Nobody was talking about molestation

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Speaker 1: back then. Nobody was talking about spousal abuse and self

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Speaker 1: medication and all that kind of stuff. I started talking

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Speaker 1: about all of it. But I walked up there with

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Speaker 1: the same trepidation that you did, expecting to be rejected,

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Speaker 1: and instead got marved with people, which it took me

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Speaker 1: a while to believe them, even though they were coming

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Speaker 1: in masses. My own insecurities made me wonder was it

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Speaker 1: really real? Could I really trust it as it really stable?

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Speaker 1: Is it really going to stand? I thought it was

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Speaker 1: really odd that you had the same kind of feelings

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Speaker 1: that I did. And I was the youngest sibling. You

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Speaker 1: were the youngest daughter, and you go through that. But

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Speaker 1: there's something about the youngest child that does something to you.

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Speaker 1: You get to see the other ones grow up and

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Speaker 1: you learn from them, and I think there's a certain

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Speaker 1: compounded interests of wisdom that comes upon you as a

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Speaker 1: result of seeing life as a voyeur and then experiencing

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Speaker 1: it for yourself, and it helps you to grow and

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Speaker 1: to go You you did all of that. By the way,

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Speaker 1: when you got up on the stage and said that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, totally shocked. I'm sure I was shocked.

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Speaker 1: You should have warned me, you should have texted me no,

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Speaker 1: because you would.

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Speaker 2: Have told me no. Doesn't my history show you that

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask you.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I don't think I would have.

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Speaker 2: You don't think so.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think I would have. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: you to be ready. I was never ashamed of you.

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Speaker 1: I was never I.

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Speaker 2: Don't think you would have said no because you were

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Speaker 2: ashamed of me. But you're so protected.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yes that I could see.

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Speaker 2: Saying no, don't you throw you. I could see you

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Speaker 2: doing all of those things. I don't think you never

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Speaker 2: made me feel like you were ashamed of me. But

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Speaker 2: I do think that I felt I felt your disappointment. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I mean as a parent myself. If I just

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Speaker 2: try to put myself in your shoes, I can experience that.

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Speaker 2: But I think because we had such a close bond

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Speaker 2: before I got pressed, Yeah, like I was the one

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Speaker 2: who would be up in the morning. It was the

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Speaker 2: one who was like doing the business stuff and accounting

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Speaker 2: and writing checks if you guys were out of town.

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Speaker 2: Like if we had just this bond, and I could

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Speaker 2: feel the shift in our relationship after I got pregnant, well,

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Speaker 2: but it didn't feel like this. It didn't feel like

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Speaker 2: a shame. It felt like disappointment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I admit that. I think it was disappointment. But

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Speaker 1: it was unfair too, because I didn't really see you

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Speaker 1: as a human. I saw you as a princess, a

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Speaker 1: daddy's girl. Listen, this girl would stop. We'd be on

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Speaker 1: the highway driving down sixty four. I was driving. She

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Speaker 1: was too little. She would be sitting in the backseat

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Speaker 1: and say, Daddy, I'm cold, and I would pull over

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Speaker 1: to the side of the road or the interstate and

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Speaker 1: take my coat off and wrap around her. So that

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Speaker 1: gives you some indication of the closeness that existed between us,

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Speaker 1: and I think that closeness is the glue that cemented

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Speaker 1: our relationship, whether ups or downs, because it had a foundation.

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Speaker 1: That foundation might be shaken, but it doesn't crack because

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Speaker 1: if it starts out with a solidarity, it survives everything.

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Speaker 1: We can talk and never open our mouth. We can

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Speaker 1: look at each other and have a complete conversation across

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Speaker 1: the table and nobody knows that we're having it. And

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Speaker 1: I think it helped us to endure many of the

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Speaker 1: things that came along the way. Chapter number three, First

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Speaker 1: marriage and Divorce. Let's talk a little bit about after

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Speaker 1: going through that, when you decided to get married, did

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Speaker 1: you think that getting married would sort of bring a

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Speaker 1: legitimacy and correction to your life? And were you disappointed

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Speaker 1: when you ran into a bad marriage, a toxic relationship

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Speaker 1: and hard times. Was it a disappointment from what you

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Speaker 1: had hoped it would bring you?

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Speaker 2: It was initially I certainly thought that it would fix it.

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Speaker 2: I think that you also have to realize that, like

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Speaker 2: while you were out and we were traveling, we would

337
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Speaker 2: be in youth ministry. This is the peak of purity culture,

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Speaker 2: where they would say things to girls like if I

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Speaker 2: took a sucker and passed it around this room, by

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Speaker 2: time it got to the last person, no one would

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Speaker 2: want it. That's how your body is.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't have your virginity, then your damaged goods.

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Speaker 2: And they would be getting married to Jesus and wearing

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Speaker 2: white dresses. And so here I am with a baby

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Speaker 2: on my head, and I'm thinking to myself, I will

347
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Speaker 2: never be one of the good girls ever. I'll just

348
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Speaker 2: never be wanted the good girls I lost, And so

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Speaker 2: marriage felt like and I think in many ways the

350
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Speaker 2: churches I doing some of this narrative for women in general,

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Speaker 2: where it's marriage is surprise, not your intellect, not your education,

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Speaker 2: not your entrepreneurship. If you get married, then you did

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Speaker 2: it all. And so I think I felt for that narrative.

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Speaker 2: It's not just in the churches, in the culture too, Right,

355
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Speaker 2: Sinorella needs her prince charming, and so if I get married,

356
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Speaker 2: that'll fix everything. Now here, I am married, and y'all

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Speaker 2: allied to me. Excuse me, Yeah, like what am I

358
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Speaker 2: supposed to do now? But I didn't realize that there

359
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Speaker 2: is an element of reflection in the person who you

360
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Speaker 2: partner with, right, And the moment that I stopped being

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Speaker 2: disappointed that I didn't get the fairy tale and started

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Speaker 2: looking at the mirror of what is it about this

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Speaker 2: dynamic that is feeding me, fueling me, hurting me, breaking me?

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Speaker 2: And can I really stand living like this forever? And

365
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Speaker 2: I thought to myself, you know what, I have already

366
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Speaker 2: messed up. I've already messed up what's another one? Yeah,

367
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Speaker 2: for the sake of having one whole parent for my

368
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Speaker 2: two children at that time versus two people. I was

369
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Speaker 2: on my way to prison. Yeah, on my way to prison.

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Speaker 2: And that's handed up ible, I mean, police, why are

371
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Speaker 2: you raning this car? I've told the story. I was

372
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Speaker 2: on my way to prison, and I thought, if I

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Speaker 2: don't get out of this, we're talking life for death,

374
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Speaker 2: we really are. We're talking life for death. We're talking

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Speaker 2: about foster care. And I just felt like, you know what,

376
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Speaker 2: I've already messed up anything to be better than that.

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Speaker 1: See, people don't know that behind the breaches a gangster.

378
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Speaker 1: They may know by the preaching a little bit, just

379
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Speaker 1: a little bit, but don't let it shock you. There

380
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Speaker 1: is a real gangster behind this person. And I have

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Speaker 1: a little touch of it too. Uh, And so I

382
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Speaker 1: can understand how you felt like that it wasn't. People

383
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Speaker 1: are always talking about preacher's kids, but I think it's

384
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Speaker 1: a deeper thing than that. The only difference between preachers

385
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Speaker 1: kids and other kids is that you live up under

386
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Speaker 1: the light and the heat that comes from that light

387
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Speaker 1: of being on stage where everybody can see you. But

388
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Speaker 1: the reality there are a lot of people who were

389
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Speaker 1: not preachers kids who had bad marriages, who went through divorces,

390
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Speaker 1: who had children out of wedlock, all that kind of stuff.

391
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Speaker 1: I think that the expectation that the preacher's kids inherit

392
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Speaker 1: is that we're supposed to be these divine people that

393
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Speaker 1: come down on the cloud and have angels with harp

394
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Speaker 1: singing all around us. Truth of the matter is, our parents,

395
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Speaker 1: my generation's parents, Boomer's parents were called the silent generation.

396
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Speaker 1: They didn't say nothing, okay, and they taught you to

397
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Speaker 1: keep your mouth shut, okay. So we were the generation

398
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Speaker 1: that came along with what goes on in this house

399
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: stays in this house. Their generation didn't even bring up

400
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Speaker 1: what goes on in the house, okay, So we brought

401
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Speaker 1: it up. The guardrails on our silence was induced by

402
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Speaker 1: the way that we were raised and the country. I mean,

403
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: we grew up off of Mayberry and I love Lucy,

404
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: and Lucy and her husband never slept in the same bed,

405
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Speaker 1: so I mean, it wasn't a realistic expectation of life.

406
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Speaker 1: But those were the images that were cast in front

407
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Speaker 1: of us, and they were impossible to live up to.

408
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Speaker 1: Do you think that a lot of people in your

409
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Speaker 1: generation who could keep it one hundred, which we had

410
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Speaker 1: to come to grow into, we had I'm still going

411
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: into it a little bit and keep it about eighty.

412
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Speaker 1: But the idea of keeping at one hundred, did it

413
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Speaker 1: serve you well as you look back on it, or

414
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: does it open you up where you've got the whole

415
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: world looking into your life and expecting you to just

416
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Speaker 1: tell everything about everything.

417
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Speaker 2: Oh, that's setulated question. I think it depends on the

418
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Speaker 2: emotional wellness and state of the person who's sharing their story,

419
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Speaker 2: usually because I do think that if you're not well

420
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: when you share your story, you're sharing your story because

421
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: you want to be affirmed, you want to be seen,

422
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 2: you need to be liked, You want to feel better

423
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: because maybe you didn't get that in other areas of

424
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Speaker 2: your life, and now the Internet represents the place of

425
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: restoration where it'll fix the cracks in your self esteem

426
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Speaker 2: and your self image. I do think that for people

427
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: will utilize it. The way I want to think that

428
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: I use it is that I don't share it until

429
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: I'm ready for it to be criticized and praised, which

430
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: means there's a certain level of healing, at least a

431
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: Skype that has to be over what I'm sharing before

432
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Speaker 2: I put it out in the world, because I recognize

433
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Speaker 2: that I'm opening myself up to all manners of opinions.

434
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Speaker 2: What I will say is that I think it is

435
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: serving me and I think time will tell. In thirty years,

436
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: I have to say it was all a bad idea.

437
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: Relieve the ass. It was terrible, But right now.

438
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: That's right.

439
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: But right now I feel like, especially in this transition,

440
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 2: it's helping me to saw the legs off the pedestal

441
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 2: before they can put me on it.

442
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: There was something that you said when we had Woman

443
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: and Are at Lakewood, and that was your like coming

444
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: out to the world experience, you said, and I thought

445
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: it was a very a shield, a very strong and

446
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: effective shield. You said, it doesn't matter what you say

447
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: about me. There's nothing that you can say or think

448
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: about me that I had not said or thought about myself.

449
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: You disarmed the audience from being critical because you were

450
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: self deprecating in such a way that it put it

451
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: on a scale where I think immediately people knew that

452
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: you got it, that you had already suffered from it,

453
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: and for the most part, it resonated with them in

454
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: a very profound way. As you went forward from there

455
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: and started to do women evolved. You drew around you

456
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: women inside the church and outside the church who did

457
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: not have that kind of acceptance or strength always to

458
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: keep it one hundred regardless of the generation. Sometimes I

459
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: think we are to stereotypical in our ideas about generations,

460
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: because there are some old folks that keep it one

461
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: hundred and there are some young folks that keep things

462
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: to themselves. So it has a lot to do with

463
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: how you were trained, where you grew up, what region

464
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: of the world, what culture you come from. All of

465
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: that plays into the makeup and the mystery, the mystery

466
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: of you. And I think that's what makes us so

467
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: fantastic is that we are a mystery gradually unraveled, and

468
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: you are exactly right. Thirty years from now, you may

469
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: think differently than you do right now, and that's okay.

470
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: Shame on you. If you live thirty more years and

471
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: still think the way you think now, you live thirty

472
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: more years and then learn. If you learn one thing

473
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: a year in thirty years, you're going to be different.

474
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: Not to say what you think now is wrong, but

475
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: the times have changed.

476
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: You know what I think is hard about that reality,

477
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: because to your point, if our ideas aren't changing, then

478
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: we're stuck as we're being exposed, as we're gaining experience.

479
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: If our perspectives are expanding, if not totally evolving from

480
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: where they once were then I think there's something wrong

481
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: with that. The only issue with that is I think

482
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: that the way that the Internet and social media and

483
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: chatter is set up is that it nails you to

484
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: who you are now and it doesn't give you space

485
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 2: to say, oh, I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm changing. And

486
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: so a few months ago I kind of came to

487
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: this reality that I am going to make sure that

488
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 2: everyone knows that I have as I did, that life

489
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: is a class firm and I am a forever student

490
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: and so yes, I'm the co senior pastor, yes I'm

491
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 2: the founder. Well, yes, all of those things that make

492
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: you feel like, oh, she must have it figured out.

493
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: Like I crainge reading my bio because I know when

494
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: someone else is hearing that biome that it sounds like

495
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: this is a person who has it figured out. And

496
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: I assure you, from the bottom of my art I

497
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: am literally just a girl sharing what I'm learning along

498
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: the way. And I have to keep putting that in

499
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: front of people because they will dehumanize you.

500
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, with the achievement.

501
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 2: They will dehumanize you with success and influence. And like,

502
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: I can't tell people, hey, leave me alone, I'm off you.

503
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, like, stay away, stay away.

504
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: I can't help the fact that I have influence. I

505
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: can't help it. I tried, it didn't work, and so

506
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: now it's like, how am I going to navigate it?

507
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: How am I going to be a steward of it?

508
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: And I feel like my job is to constantly show

509
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: you my scars, show you my wounds, and then point

510
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: you to the one who has been a healer, shown

511
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: you to the one who can show you how to

512
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: keep walking. But if we do not, as leaders, make

513
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: it our mission to keep our humanity in front of people, yes,

514
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 2: they will deify you. And so it's hard though, because

515
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: when you put your humanity in front of people, you're

516
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: opening yourself up for criticism. So it is easy to

517
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: just show the highlight reason, but that just solidifies the dehumanization.

518
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: And so you're going to see me in my bond

519
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: you look at it. I'm gonna be dressed, I'm gonna

520
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: switch my wings, I'm gonna put on them clothes, but

521
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be on my bondy. I'm gonna be taking

522
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: care of my kids. I'm gonna be cloking. I want

523
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: to make sure that you have a well rounded view

524
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: of what it means to be all of who I am.

525
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: Not that I'm looking for your validation, but I just

526
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: feel like you should have a full scope.

527
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: You are a very authentic person and have grown to

528
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: be an increasingly authentic person. And I don't think that

529
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: I can think of many examples of people who have

530
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: been at authentic. There are few, but from the platform

531
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: and the height and the global perspective of who you are,

532
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: that takes a great deal of courage. And when I

533
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: think about you, it reminded me of something I was

534
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: going through the Charlotte Airport years years years ago. I

535
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: was maybe your age, and I ran into Bishop Campbell

536
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: and he looked at me and he shook his shook

537
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: his head. He felt so sorry for me. He said,

538
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: you've lost something you'll never be able to regain. And

539
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: I said, what is that? He said normally and kept

540
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: on walking. And it haunted me. But it was so

541
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: prophetic to the loss of normalcy, the loss to have

542
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: a bad hair day, the loss of wearing a hair bonnet,

543
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: the loss of being able to lose your wig while

544
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: you're preaching.

545
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: And then I didn't preached the six weeks Hater as

546
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: I had set my father taking my with.

547
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: No, it didn't bother me.

548
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: I know, I called you to ask him, like, listen,

549
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: you make the schedule kind of been up there since

550
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: my and then other people had their wings on the

551
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: afar either the Lord.

552
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: We have really done it now, Yeah, yeah, it was different.

553
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: It was shocking.

554
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't no purpose. I didn't have a choice.

555
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know you didn't pick it. I know

556
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: you weren't trying it be to be sensational, but the

557
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: way you handled it, there's something. There's some kind of

558
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 1: strength in not allowing the things you have to have you. Yeah,

559
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, I think that God doesn't mind you having

560
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: things that I think he minds things having you. And

561
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: whether wig or no wig, heels or no heels, kick

562
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: my heels off, jump up and down, You've always never

563
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: let any of that stop you from doing what He

564
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: told you to do, which gets down to an unusual

565
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: amount of focus that you have on your purpose and

566
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: I'm just your person, And I think that's really fascinating.

567
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: I'm wondering do you think about it that way? Do

568
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: you think about it from the perspective of your focus

569
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: being your purpose rather than your person or you do you.

570
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: I know, before you get up you're thinking about you

571
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: to some degree, But once you get up, do you

572
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,719
Speaker 1: get lost in your calling?

573
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: For sure? When I'm up there, the only thing that

574
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: matters is what's happening in that moment. Sometimes I watch

575
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: clips to me preaching and it doesn't feel like who

576
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: I am when I'm not preaching at all, because I

577
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: just I don't feel. I don't. The way I've cutting

578
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: up is just completely surrender and passion for whatever the

579
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: message is that God has given. But I certainly take

580
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: that there seriously, and then when it's over, I actually

581
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: have protected my sense of normalcy. I think the privilege

582
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: of being able to watch you lose your.

583
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: Words, thank you, Thank you. I appreciate that ship.

584
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: That I'm fiercely protective over mine. And so you always

585
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: talk about like how I could get off the stage

586
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: and you know, preach and the glory show up and

587
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: people be at the altar, and I will grab a

588
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: paper bag and fry chicken and get the girls and

589
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: go home like nothing happened, Because for me, all that

590
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: happened was God.

591
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: You are one of the few preachers that I have

592
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: ever met in my life who can preach a message

593
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: that is very explosive in the congregation, and as soon

594
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: as you not even wait till you get home and

595
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: start frying chicken. As soon as you get in the hallway,

596
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: you act like, who I didn't do that? You know,

597
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: you have an ability to slip right back into that

598
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: normalcy and be surrounded by your kids and your husband

599
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: and exit honey, exit Elvis Presley, y'all. She can exit

600
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley and be very comfortable in some housecoade and

601
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: some turnover shoes and making it do what it do.

602
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: And you have never neglected being a mother and a

603
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: wife for being a preacher. And I think sometimes career

604
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: women and career men often for sake who they are

605
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: at home, because they feel like you have to make

606
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: a choice. How do you manage being both things so proficiently?

607
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: Chapter number four Learning Growing Changing.

608
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: First of all, I want to say that part of

609
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: the reason why when I get finished preaching that I

610
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: just cut a log office because for me, like this

611
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: is my offering and I say everything Guy's told me

612
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: to say the best way I know how to say it.

613
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 2: I study, and once I leave it out there, I

614
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: did it like this is my offering. My identity is

615
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: with my family, and I realize that the only way

616
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 2: that I can show up there is if I am

617
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: who I am with them. I don't want to wreck

618
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: the room and come home and my house feels erect.

619
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: I want to minister to my children the same way

620
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: I minister to the people who are in the room,

621
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: and it's really important to me that they feel seen,

622
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: that they feel heard, and that I can pour into

623
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 2: them with intention and so maintaining that connection. Maintain I mean,

624
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: when you got finished speaking, there were swarms of people around,

625
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: but they ran over us to get to you, and

626
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: we didn't know how to translate that. And so I

627
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: think for me, like Ella wants to grab my hand,

628
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: and I know what it's like to wonder, like is

629
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: that person still my mom? You know, like it does

630
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: that person still care that I got home to And

631
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: sometimes I worry that maybe I'm a little overkilled with it,

632
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: and I want to show them balanced. But I think

633
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: right now it's just really important to me, especially the

634
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 2: great and a transition, that I hang on to them

635
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: in the midst of the transition.

636
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: I think you're bionic, you know, in your ability to

637
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: slip from one thing into another. I know that that

638
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: was a very difficult period in you as lives to

639
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: be little kids and couldn't hardly get to me for

640
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: all the people that were swarmed around me. My mindset

641
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: at the time was your mother's got you, okay, but

642
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: you are their mother. Now. My mindset wasn't right because

643
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how significant a father's presence is to

644
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: a child. I learned that from you all that when

645
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: you start talking about always learning, I think that if

646
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: you allow your ego as a parent to make you

647
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: feel like you're always the teacher, you will miss the

648
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: class because while you're teaching your children and your children

649
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: are teaching you. And I didn't see the significance of

650
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: my presence around you you are in that setting, and

651
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: that you were intimidated by everybody calling me their their dad,

652
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: and you know that's my spiritual father, and you are

653
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: over there fussing and murmuring amongst yourself, saying no, no, no, no,

654
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: that's my real father. What I was proud of was

655
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: to learn that some kind of way, we survived it

656
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: and landed on our feet as a family. And I

657
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: can see why a lot of families don't. I can

658
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: see why a lot of families fall apart. I can

659
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: see where while a lot of families end up substituting

660
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: wholeness with self medication, and the parent doesn't understand why

661
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: the child is acting out because you have read regulate

662
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: relegated to someone else a role that only you can play.

663
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 2: You know, I do think there's a level of emotional

664
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: intelligence required to get to that space of reconciliation. But

665
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: for me, how I've reconciled those difficult realities from my

666
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 2: childhood is that if I were you and I did

667
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 2: not have you, I would have done the same thing.

668
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 2: The only reason why I am even conscious enough to

669
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: not do the same thing is because I had a model,

670
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 2: an example, and I feel like that goes in both directions, right.

671
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: The only reason why I could sit down and handle

672
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 2: myself and interview, or to navigate large rooms without feeling

673
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: as fault it is because I had you, and so

674
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: your life has been a lesson for me in many ways.

675
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: But I can see how rapid it is to go

676
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: from expected rejection yeah to overwhelmingly I guess accepted. And

677
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: I do mean I guess except because you know what

678
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: I mean, Like, it's not exactly accepted close the end

679
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 2: of the day and crucify to mar so to live

680
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: in this consistent state of vulnerability where you have to

681
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: serve people but not need them, but you do need

682
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 2: them because sometimes that's the way God loves us, that's

683
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 2: the way you and you got to be in a

684
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 2: relationship with them, so you can't be staying out. But like,

685
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: I get it, and I get how the last thing

686
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: you're thinking is this seven year old girl wants me

687
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 2: to hold her hand and take her for ice cream.

688
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: That seems trivial in the midst of it all. I

689
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: think what we know now is that it builds bonds

690
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: and connection, and it is small but long term, and

691
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: it plays a role absolutely. But if I did not

692
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 2: have you, I wouldn't know that I would have done

693
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: the same things. And so for me, it's.

694
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 4: It's well in my soul, you're going to make me

695
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 4: cry up here.

696
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 2: Awesome that though, And I think it's important that you

697
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: hear that that when I look at your life, that

698
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 2: I don't look at it just from the lens of victimuod,

699
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: that I don't just see the loss without the benefits,

700
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: and that I realized that if I had your hand.

701
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: I would have played it the same way, and my

702
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 2: children would maybe be sitting across for me what they say.

703
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: And you won there and we did well there, but

704
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: this area could have been better. I get that, and

705
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: I think, thank you, thank you for the sacrifices. Thank

706
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: you for allowing your life to be a less than

707
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 2: in every sense of that word. Thank you for still

708
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: showing up even after hearing that maybe there were things

709
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 2: that could have been better, be so much easier to

710
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: be like you know what, I did the best I

711
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 2: could go do forget y'all. But you keep showing up.

712
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: And I think the Chief shown up in times where

713
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: you knew we were still trying to figure out what

714
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: does a father relationship look like, or where we were

715
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 2: still nursing rooms. You never advanted us, and you didn't

716
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: allow our hurt to make you stay away.

717
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: I never will, Yeah, I never will. I never will

718
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: that you can come. I never feel good or bad,

719
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: up or down, famous and not famous, successful or failure

720
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: or bringing Oreo cookies to a jail celle, God forbid.

721
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: But I never will. And then the other thing, to

722
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: be honest, to be completely honest with you about the

723
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: role of a father, with children. My father got sick

724
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: when I was ten. He died when I was sixteen.

725
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: So without a pattern, it's hard to make ampare of

726
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: pants and have no better. Yeah, so I never saw

727
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: that my grandfather died when he was twenty one years old.

728
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: He was murdered when he was twenty one years old.

729
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: My other grandfather was dead when I was born. So

730
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with that that role, and especially

731
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: where daughters are concerned, because I knew what it was

732
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: to be a son and have father's hunger, well father hunger,

733
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: but I did not know what it was how important

734
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: a father is to a daughter. And I think that

735
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: we have to look at each other through the lens

736
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: of what you had on the table was all you

737
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: had to serve for dinner.

738
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: It's so that's so good. I do think, because you know,

739
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: my generation is very intentional protecting their mental health, emotional

740
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: real estate, and we have a generation where they're cutting

741
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: their parents all right because they don't get it, they

742
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: don't understand, they won't take ownership. And I think as

743
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: much as it is important for us to make sure

744
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: that we are protecting our mental and emotional real estate,

745
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: that I think if there's a possibility for reunification that

746
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: it's going to happen with us removing our expectations, and

747
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,959
Speaker 2: if we are unwilling to set our expectations to the side,

748
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: not because they're not legitimate, but not because they don't matter.

749
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: But if you're going to see this person as a

750
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: person and not the parent that failed you. If you

751
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: think about what it means to be a fifteen year

752
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: old boy who's taking care of his father with an illness,

753
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,479
Speaker 2: whose grandfather is gone, and then that's the person who

754
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: you want to pick you up and take you to

755
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 2: ice cream and plat your hair and do all these

756
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: like how right?

757
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: How right?

758
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? My idea of father that

759
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: is primarily based off of things I've seen on television,

760
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: and some of the most iconic fathers on television. We're

761
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 2: not iconic people off the script, so none of this

762
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: is real. I think there's a level of maturing that

763
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: gets into a space where we say, Okay, well none

764
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: of this is real now because I know this isn't real,

765
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: but maybe this doesn't change the way the person showing

766
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: up in my life. What boundary do I need to have?

767
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: What distance do I need to create do I need

768
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: to create?

769
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: What?

770
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: How to communication this? I think you can do the

771
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 2: planning after, but I think to really level the playing field,

772
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 2: you got to look at the whole picture. Sometimes we're

773
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: asking people to show up in ways they literally don't

774
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: know how to show up.

775
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: That's true. And the other thing, we're asking them to

776
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: be more perfect as parents than we were as children. Yeah,

777
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's I always say, I can

778
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: see everybody in the room, but me. Now, I'm not

779
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: talking about toxic relationships where you're physically abused and tormented

780
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: and thoughtless parents and the ridiculous horrendous things that some

781
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: people have gone through, molested and all that kind of stuff.

782
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: That's terrible, terrible stuff. But I'm talking about I didn't

783
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: take you for ice cream, or I was late for

784
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: the prom or that sort of thing, or they didn't

785
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: show up in the ways that you needed them to do,

786
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: and maybe didn't even verbalize, or you verbalized and they

787
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: weren't listening all of that. If you throw your parents away,

788
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: you probably end up throwing your children away. Let me,

789
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: just because you think so, let me tell you why,

790
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: because they're gonna disappoint you too. And if you get

791
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: in the habit of throwing away everybody who disappoints you,

792
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 1: you end up with nobody, husband, wife, siblings. You know,

793
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: you have to relationships or hard work.

794
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: We have to have a generational conversation.

795
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

796
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: The only thing I will offer to that perspective is

797
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: that and I think it's actually very adorable that we

798
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: have a generation of people who are not wanting to

799
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 2: have children, because I do think that everything in research

800
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: suggest that parental presence is directly connected to the outcomes

801
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: of children. And the only reason why I say you

802
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't throw your children away if you threw your

803
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 2: parents away, is because part of who we have become

804
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: is a result of what we did or didn't received

805
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: from our parents. Of course, there are other environmental environmental things,

806
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: factors that play a role in that, in education and

807
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 2: social like there are all types of factors. But research

808
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: has shown that when parents are there, and I think

809
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 2: it's more than just taking me for ice cream. I

810
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: think ultimately when a child is frustrated with a parent,

811
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 2: whether it's a young child or an adult child, it's

812
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 2: because I don't feel single.

813
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: Which is which is also true about marriage. You can

814
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: be married to somebody, sleep in the bed with them

815
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: every night and not feel seen. You can birth a

816
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: child who's so quick to run out there and play

817
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: with people their own age at times that you want

818
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: to spend time with them. Your kids a little well,

819
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: you got all ages, you got a thematic, you know,

820
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: but there's a certain point in their development that they

821
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: don't want to hang with you anymore. So if you

822
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: did hang with them when they were children and then

823
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they don't want to be bothered

824
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: with you, and you're running behind them and they're saying,

825
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, oh no, I'll be back in a little while.

826
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: Where they come visit you on the holidays, not being

827
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: My point is simply this not feeling seen doesn't stop

828
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,959
Speaker 1: with childhood. It goes to work with you. It goes

829
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: to church with you. It's being able to sing in

830
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: the choir and they never calling you for a solo.

831
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: It goes to being married to somebody who is not

832
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: sensitized to your feelings. What I am saying is relationships

833
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: are hard work, for sure, and you have to put

834
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: the work in. And if you train yourself to always

835
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 1: throw away something because it's hard, you end up with nothing,

836
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: because everything's hard. Being an entrepreneur is hard, going to

837
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: work is hard. Going back to school, you're going back

838
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: to school. I didn't add that to the mix. On

839
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: top of everything else. This girl gets up like four

840
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and boxes in the morning, four

841
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. I am in a coma, okay,

842
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 1: an absolute coma. And you go from sun up to sundown.

843
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: And your children a range in age from what.

844
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 2: To what they are nine and I have my bonus

845
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: baby age twenty eight, line from.

846
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: Nine to twenty, from nine to twenty nine, and she

847
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: feeds all of them. She makes homemade biscuits, she makes

848
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: rolls from scratch, She has Thanksgiving spreads like she's somebody's grandmother.

849
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: She does all that stuff and still gets her hair done,

850
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: gets her makeup on, and comes out there in those hills.

851
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: But the girl you see on the stage with the heels,

852
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: it's not the mama they see at home. She's not

853
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: walking around her house with a bowl around her neck.

854
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: You know, you know, I mean, you're she's got flower

855
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 1: up under her fingernails and went back to school. Why

856
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: did you do that what you could easily? I mean,

857
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: you've done enough. Now, you've had enough bestsellers, you've introduced

858
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: yourself to the world, you've got a husband that loves you,

859
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: you've got children that respect you. Why did you take

860
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: on that extra way?

861
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 2: I simply just don't feel like I've maxed out my potential,

862
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 2: and I feel like there's a distance between my current

863
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: drones and my knowledge, and I feel like for the

864
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: type of impact that I think ultimately matters in the world.

865
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: Because right now, you know the books and all that

866
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: stuff like, that's cool for my name, but I want

867
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 2: for women involved to really be a place where women

868
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to get practical resources to involve from

869
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 2: the circumstances, whether that's incarceration, being unhoused, team privacy, and

870
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: in order to really erect those types of programs, it

871
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: does require a deep understanding of the research and what

872
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 2: produces positive outcomes and programs that have been shown to

873
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 2: be instrumental in producing those outcomes. And I could hire

874
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: someone who knows the research and hire someone who understands it.

875
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: But that's my ultimate heart and passion is to really

876
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,919
Speaker 2: see it through and understand it and qualify it because

877
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: I want to put my name and my work behind it,

878
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: and I just feel like at my age, I still

879
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to do the work required to go

880
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: and get a degree. And if they say four years

881
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 2: is going to pass whether you do it now or later.

882
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: And so that's what I want to do. I want

883
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: to connect the dots because I have this sensing like

884
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: I think this is true. I think these could produce

885
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: positive outcomes. But I don't have the research and knowledge,

886
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: and I want to go get it so that I

887
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: can continue to unearth what God's place in a fight.

888
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: To be fair, you were almost finished anyway, Yeah, so

889
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: you didn't have far to go to complete what you're

890
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: trying to complete. Chapter number five. Father's heart attack. This

891
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: time a year ago, the Sunday before Thanksgiving, I was

892
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 1: preaching in the church. I sat down in the chair,

893
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: I felt fine. I sat down in the chair and

894
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: had a massive heart attack. From a daughter's perspective, what

895
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: was that like for you?

896
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: It was terrifying. I was at home with Ellen, and

897
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: so we were watching together and she was immediately panicked.

898
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,919
Speaker 2: What's going on with Craney. I didn't know for sure

899
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: what it was. It looked like a stroke. If I

900
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: had to have guessed, I'm like it looks like so

901
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: I think I saw it on workout close. So I

902
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 2: threw on a hoodie and I was just headed towards

903
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 2: the church with no idea what was going on. I

904
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: was afraid but also felt very protective. One I needed

905
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 2: to be present for Ellen, who was afraid. But then

906
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: I needed to understand who's with my dad, Who's take

907
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 2: care of him? What hospital is he going to? How

908
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: do we make sure that he's protected and can have

909
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: medical privacy when he gets there, And so I think

910
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: a part of me really went into.

911
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it wasn't like now is not the

912
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 3: time for a breakdown, Like we're in a fight and

913
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 3: we don't know what it is, and we got to

914
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 3: take care of him.

915
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: So you know, calling security, what's the plane, what's the strategy?

916
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 2: You know people were watching online, They're afraid, they're nervous,

917
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: they love him. What is our messaging to them? We

918
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 2: don't have anything to tell them yet, so very much

919
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: so crisis. I was there by the time I beat

920
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 2: the ambulance to the hospital, and I don't live close

921
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: to the hospital, so that I did tell you about

922
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: how I was driving and I saw them will you win?

923
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: And I could tell that you were You were not

924
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: totally there, but I think you said something I don't

925
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: remember what, and I thought to myself, he's going to

926
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: be okay, He's going to be okay. Mom was surprised.

927
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm talking to the nurses, you know, your

928
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 2: telephone number, your insurance, like now, it just wasn't out

929
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: for the breakdown. My husband was out of sounds. That

930
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: wasn't even like I could get someone else, And so

931
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: it's I think me and Dexter were kind of manning things.

932
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: But I will say by time I did have an

933
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 2: opportunity to have a breakdown, you were cutting up in

934
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 2: the hospital room, which robbed me of my opportunity that

935
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 2: have been breakdown because you who what what we eating?

936
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 2: And did y'all call this person? And did you take

937
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: care of this? And I was like, you see, now

938
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 2: I'm ready to have a breakdown and you'd not already

939
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: made it to the other side, which you know, I

940
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: was grateful, but also I didn't I didn't really process

941
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: it fully what that moment could have represented. I think

942
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 2: it took me some time to get to a space

943
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 2: to acknowledge the fear connected to it. But I had

944
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: the victory before you know, the fear could be processed.

945
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 1: It was amazing to watch how you walked in and

946
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: started calling the right people, informing the right people, talking

947
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: to the doctors, acting like your father, protecting nobody. Nobody

948
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: goes in there, nobody goes in there. Don't go near him,

949
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you turned exactly into me, and

950
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: that was that was really really nice, and I'm glad

951
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: that I came out of it, that we get to

952
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: laugh about it when we get to joke about it.

953
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: And it's been a year and I'm doing pretty well. Yeah, yeah,

954
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: so thank you.

955
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 2: You were very obedient time of year ago too. Yeah,

956
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: bring that back. We could do that too, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

957
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 2: got red dance.

958
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: Well I didn't want to die.

959
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but now, so.

960
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 1: You missed the point. See, let me explain this. I

961
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: have a tendency to be bullheaded and and go the

962
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: extra mile when when my wife's cure all for everything

963
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: is go to bed and lay down to rest. I'm

964
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: the kind of person that will fight it.

965
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 2: The doctor's cure all though, just to be clear with

966
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 2: the doctor's all this time.

967
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, whatever it was, I did it, I

968
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: did it, and did it a lot, you know, and

969
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: took the medications and and went through the therapy and

970
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: did all the things that my wife had just got

971
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: through doing with the Neva placement. Our life has not

972
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: been what you think. She she didn't.

973
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 2: Walk for her a year, how older two years by

974
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 2: telling me figure out what was one?

975
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, a year before the surgery and then a

976
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: year in recovery. And so while we were dealing with

977
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: all the other dramas that life brings to us, we

978
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: were also dealing with her. And I've been in fact,

979
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: Serena didn't start walking until I started dying, and there

980
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: I was having a heart attack. Was the first time

981
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: she got up and started walking without any kind of

982
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: cain or walker or anything. And she's been walking ever since.

983
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: But I've surrounded myself with some strong people in my life,

984
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: and some strong women in my life, and I was

985
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: just curious to wonder what that looked like from your

986
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: point of view as a daughter, for me as a father,

987
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: always being used to being the superman and to being

988
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: a vulnerable addition, you know, I didn't want them all

989
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: over me. I was telling them to get back, get back,

990
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, I walk out of here, and you know,

991
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: we yelled at me to get in the wheelchair, and

992
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: I was trying to trying to walk because I did

993
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: not I didn't know what was wrong with me, and

994
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: I did not I did not realize that I was

995
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: as sick as I was, that it was as serious

996
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: as I was. And the first time I heard massive

997
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: heart attack, I had gone. I was in the ICU

998
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: UH and they were getting ready to do surgery, and

999
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: I thought my first we actually was to look over

1000
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: at the doctor and say get out of here. You know,

1001
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: because I had none of the morning signs that I

1002
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: had read about, none of them had come along. I

1003
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: thought I needed hydration. You know. It felt like that

1004
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: I just fell asleep and and went some place quiet

1005
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: and beautiful and peaceful until I came back to myself.

1006
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: And then a start being bossy and can't thank for us,

1007
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: like like, look, how what you inherited is, so don't

1008
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: criticize it. But that's a great thing about family. That's

1009
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: the great thing about family that there's a little piece

1010
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: of your mother and a little piece of me and

1011
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: every step you take, and that that will never go away. Okay,

1012
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: Chapter the Six Blending Families. Let's back up a minute

1013
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: and talk about blended families. You talked about your bonus children,

1014
00:58:52,600 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: and it made me think about you married a pastor, Ila.

1015
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: You married a pastor who had gone through a divorce. Okay,

1016
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: that's not uncommon now we see more. You had gone

1017
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: through a divorce, bought a house here in Dallas, taking

1018
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: care of yourself, always been independent, always been resourceful, was

1019
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: getting a degree in accounting at first, and so you

1020
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: handled your money well. And you did all of that

1021
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: very well. So you didn't necessarily need somebody to help

1022
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: take care of you. You could take care of yourself.

1023
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of that. I'm very proud of that.

1024
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: One of my goals in life was to raise daughters

1025
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: that might want a man, but don't need one in

1026
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: order to be able to be so sufficient and be

1027
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: able to sustain themselves. You have lived up to that

1028
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: to the highest degree. But you came into you. You

1029
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: fell in love with this dude who's a pastor, who

1030
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: turned out to be a wonderful guy. After I examined him, yes,

1031
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: examined him with a stethoscope, asked him everything you could

1032
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: think of in the world, and looking in his eye

1033
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: like this, trying to see because I never wanted you

1034
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: to ever be hurt again. What was amazing though, his wife,

1035
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: who your bonus children that still have a relationship. Of course,

1036
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: that's their mother, but she was in the church. I

1037
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: come out to California, y'all to have dinner with my

1038
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: daughter and her new husband and some of his relatives

1039
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: and what have you. And my wife and I come

1040
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: out there, and I didn't I didn't even realize who

1041
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: the girl was until I look past her, and my

1042
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: wife said to me, you know who that is, don't you, child?

1043
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: And she told me, and I said, get out of here.

1044
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: She's heaving his ex wife over at her house for dinner.

1045
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: And you never made I think the world needs to here?

1046
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: How did you do that? I mean, now she lives

1047
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: out here in Dallas. You know she comes to church

1048
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: from time to time. We've interacted, and so the ex

1049
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: wife and the new wife get along with you, with

1050
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: each other without pulling each other's hair out. And I

1051
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: saw you put the work into that, and her put

1052
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: the work into finding a way to make it work.

1053
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: Talk to people who are going through the complications of

1054
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: blended families, baby mama drama, ex wives, ex husbands. Very

1055
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,959
Speaker 1: few people navigate that kind of stuff very well.

1056
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I have to say, I think it's

1057
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 2: multi layered, and that her pet was very honoring in

1058
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: their transition and their divorce, and so to my knowledge,

1059
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 2: there wasn't any bitrill towards him. And so I mean,

1060
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: obviously you're not married to someone that long and it's

1061
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: just a happy separation, But there wasn't this deep sense

1062
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 2: of betrayal and dishonoring, and so it was as amiable

1063
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: bull as a divorce can be so complicated. But when

1064
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 2: he and I got married, I think we wanted the

1065
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: same things for the kids, and I didn't want to

1066
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: bring my kids into a toxic situation, and I don't

1067
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 2: think she wanted her kids in a toxic situation. I

1068
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 2: don't think that she would have volunteered to go to

1069
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 2: dinner to me. I wouldn't have volunteered to go to

1070
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: dinner with her. But do we want Isaiah's homework turned in?

1071
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 2: For sure? Do we want him on time for his

1072
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 2: field trip? Absolutely? And you know, no slight to pt

1073
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 2: like he's not necessarily in the nuts and bolts of

1074
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: like what kind of snack does he need? And does

1075
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: need a paper sacked lunch today, and so I was

1076
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 2: communicating with him, like trying to get information as the

1077
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 2: kids were coming over, and finally it's kind of like,

1078
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 2: can I just talk to her directly? And we wanted

1079
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: the same things for the kids, and then she was

1080
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 2: like a like we laughed at the same thing, like girl,

1081
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 2: this teacher get on our nerves, and we began to

1082
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 2: build a rapport primarily because we wanted the same thing

1083
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 2: for the kids. And so I think that if you're

1084
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 2: blending a family, the first thing you have to do

1085
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 2: is make sure that you and your partner have the

1086
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 2: same goals and ideas for what successful family and parenting

1087
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: looks like before you even include the external or ex partners.

1088
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: It's like, do you and this person have the same

1089
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 2: ideas about what family looks like, what marriage looks like.

1090
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: When pt and I were first blending our family, I

1091
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 2: didn't discipline his children. He did discipline line, we have

1092
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 2: a little huddle. I don't think that's appropriate. I don't

1093
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: think it's appropriate how to we handle it? And then

1094
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 2: whoever had the closes or bond showed up for that child.

1095
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 2: Until we got to know one another. We dated with

1096
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 2: the children, so we would take the kids on group

1097
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 2: dates so that they weren't just thrust into this family dynamic.

1098
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: And so I think that those types of things lay

1099
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: the foundation, but ultimately, the mutual desire to create a

1100
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: safe haven for the children allowed us to blame the family.

1101
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: And I think that it's difficult when people aren't at

1102
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 2: a space yet where they aren't over the hurt, they

1103
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 2: aren't over the separation. They still feel in some way

1104
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 2: they were wrong, and so they want to hold the

1105
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 2: partner accountable by how they show up in their relationship

1106
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 2: with the children. And I think that there is a

1107
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 2: level of healing and forgiveness release that you have to

1108
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: have in order to preserve what's left for the children

1109
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: and their childhood and future. And I think that we

1110
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 2: were on the same page about that.

1111
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very unusual. I mean one thing, I see

1112
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: what you mean that the common bond was the welfare

1113
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: of the children and what was best for them. That's

1114
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: the way it's supposed to be. That's supposed to be

1115
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: the primary goal. But that's also very very difficult because

1116
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: there's insecurities. You know, who wants your ex wife or

1117
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: ex husband hanging around? You know, if you had to

1118
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: be very secure in your relationship with pt He had

1119
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:55,919
Speaker 1: to be very antegrist in his relationship with her. Very

1120
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 1: seldom do you find these ideal situations. There's simple jealousies.

1121
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: You got your arm around her. I don't want to

1122
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: see you with your arm around her. You know, you

1123
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: are kissing in the kitchen, back out of the kids.

1124
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of stuff that can go wrong, which

1125
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: goes back to my original point. Just because something is

1126
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: hard doesn't mean you throw it away, and you work

1127
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: through it. And I watched you work through it with

1128
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: grace and and be nice and fixed plates and and

1129
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: do all of that kind of stuff. And I've watched

1130
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: her act like you were cool, you know, And and

1131
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: I think that's a There's something that that our world

1132
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: needs to learn from that, not just marriages, but the country.

1133
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: We we kill anybody who's different, we destroyed below. We've

1134
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: got to be better than somebody else. We're we're losing

1135
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: our sense. Pete preached the message recently the love of

1136
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: many has waxed cold. That phrase just stays with me.

1137
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: The love of many his wife's cold. You had to

1138
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 1: have a warm love that enabled you to do that

1139
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,919
Speaker 1: where you put others above yourself. And I think when

1140
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: you are narcissistic, you have a proclivity that says it's

1141
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: about me, it's not about her. This is our house.

1142
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't want her in our house. This is our

1143
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: dinner table. I don't want her around our table or

1144
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 1: her saying I ain't coming in her house. I don't

1145
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: want to sit around her table. You have to There

1146
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: is no love without sacrifice. There is the cost of

1147
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: love is sacrifice to some degree, not abuse. But you

1148
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: have to give an inch to hope for a mile.

1149
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 2: Do you agree totally? And that's not to say that

1150
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: we didn't have challenges, because she and I talked about

1151
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 2: this on my podcast, because, like I said, the kids

1152
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 2: hold a cookie. She said she could a cookie in

1153
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 2: the charge and fel you know what I mean, because

1154
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 2: don't I don't hear how she said one that she tried,

1155
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 2: and she's like, I'll never throw those cookies away. And

1156
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 2: when our oldest daughter was getting married, she wanted her

1157
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 2: dad and her mom to walk her down the aisle,

1158
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: and I couldn't help when I was officiating with her

1159
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 2: with my husband and so so pt and his ex

1160
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 2: wife or her mom and dad are walking her down

1161
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 2: the aisle, and I'm standing there as the officient and

1162
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, you know, I'm sure that this

1163
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 2: is what they dreamed of. Ye you know what I

1164
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: mean when they first got married. No one gets married

1165
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 2: to get divorced. They probably thought that they would have

1166
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 2: this moment together. And so recognizing that I, you know,

1167
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: our love and life has modified and altered that story,

1168
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 2: it makes me compassionate as well. When we went dress

1169
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: shopping for that same daughter, I took picture. I took

1170
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 2: the picture of them together, and then she goes, no,

1171
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 2: we want you in it too, And so I do

1172
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: think that there's this level of empathy because I'm like,

1173
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 2: no one's going dress shopping thinking that they're husband's new

1174
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: wife is going to be with them. I'm cool, take

1175
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: the picture right, And after I took the picture, She's like,

1176
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: I want you in it. And so I do think

1177
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 2: that she has the same compassion that I experienced in

1178
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: the children I've seen firsthand from their mother. And I

1179
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 2: respect that because the compassion of love I experienced from

1180
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 2: her children has made my whole better.

1181
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: When you start talking about women in general, not just

1182
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: this case here, how do you avoid being defensive?

1183
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think context is that I used to I

1184
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,600
Speaker 2: haven't always been a girls girl because I felt like

1185
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: women who were better than I was, who didn't have

1186
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 2: the scars that I didn't have, who were more successful

1187
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 2: than I was, thought that they were better than me,

1188
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: and so I thought I beat them to the punch

1189
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 2: and being judgmental and critical with them and so which

1190
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 2: made me defensive with other women. So I see women

1191
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: who aren't at a space where they're ready to support

1192
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 2: and encourage other women as women who are still healing

1193
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 2: because there's no way that you can really live in

1194
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 2: the fullness of what it needs to be a woman,

1195
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: the difficulty that comes with that, the beauty that comes

1196
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 2: with it, the challenges, and look at another woman and

1197
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 2: hate on her unless there's a party of you that

1198
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 2: hates a bit of yourself, and so I don't take

1199
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 2: it personally.

1200
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a staateno. You're gonna let that so cat

1201
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 1: for her. In other words, it's you're reflecting. You're reflecting

1202
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: the anger that you have toward her. You're reflecting. I

1203
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: think that's also true with men. I've never seen a

1204
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: man who beat his wife and loved himself. What is

1205
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 1: chapter number seven ex husband cheating. I think there's some

1206
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 1: kind of deflection where you substitute the anger and the

1207
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: hostility of your own insecurities and failures and transpose it

1208
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: onto the woman you're with. Or take the anger that

1209
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: you had for your mother, yeah, and respected her too

1210
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: much to execute it, and put it out on your wife.

1211
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 1: And so there has to be a lot of introspection.

1212
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,839
Speaker 1: What would you say to women who think strength is anger?

1213
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: You know, because this is the age where you know,

1214
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: pop my neck. I'll tell you right now, you don't

1215
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: come and you know, what would you say to women

1216
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: who think strength is anger? And I suppose it would

1217
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: also be true for men, because there are men who

1218
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: are very, very angry.

1219
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 2: What's the answer I would say to a woman who

1220
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: has learned that strength is anger, that anger is strength

1221
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 2: rather is that I'm sorry. I would say, I'm sorry

1222
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 2: that that was true for you, that the only way

1223
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 2: that you could survive was to be angry, that you

1224
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 2: couldn't afford to be emotional or vulnerable, that anger was

1225
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 2: the only way that you could survive whatever you went through.

1226
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 2: And then I would offer her a perspective that maybe

1227
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 2: she doesn't have to be angry forever. That maybe the

1228
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 2: anger was necessary for the moment you were in there then,

1229
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: but that perhaps life has changed, and if life has changed,

1230
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 2: maybe releasing anger so that you can experience what's available

1231
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 2: in this moment maybe the most, maybe the strongest thing

1232
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 2: you can do.

1233
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: You know, I hate that you gave a better answer

1234
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 1: than what I was gonna get you just a little

1235
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: tiny it's busy bit.

1236
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 2: The only reason why I said it that way is

1237
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 2: because I used to love being angry. Oh I loved it.

1238
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 2: I can feel her right now because it felt like,

1239
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get over on it. I won't do it,

1240
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: I won't allow it. I will protect myself absolutely not.

1241
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 2: I loved it. It was my way of saying absolutely not.

1242
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 2: But then I got tired I feeling like I needed

1243
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 2: to protect myself and putting myself in positions where I

1244
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 2: had to pull from that. And I think having to

1245
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 2: exercise the muscle of pulling from something different. Joy like

1246
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 2: peace like courage requires you to let go your definition

1247
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 2: of what it means to feel alive and to feel strong.

1248
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 2: And so I have compassion for the woman who felt

1249
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 2: like she always needs to be angry and angry with

1250
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 2: strength because she's had to protect herself.

1251
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: I can't speak from a woman's point of view, but

1252
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: from a man's point of view, anger often is the

1253
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: only emotion that we are allowed to.

1254
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 2: Feel, and that's it, you know.

1255
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, big boys don't cry, so we don't have a

1256
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: full vocabulary to express emotional intelligence. For the most part,

1257
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:44,839
Speaker 1: there are exceptions to the rule. The other thing is anger.

1258
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: Everything that affects us expresses as anger because anger is

1259
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 1: a camouflage that hurt wears not to be seen, and

1260
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: for men, a lot of times the anger is a

1261
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: full strength. Okay, you're gonna respect me if you come

1262
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: up in the ear, You're not coming up in mind

1263
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: all that need to go there? What did you say?

1264
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 1: You know, all of that stuff. I'm really afraid you're

1265
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: gonna leave or nobody stays. But it's easier for me

1266
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:25,919
Speaker 1: to be mad about it rather than to admit to myself,

1267
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 1: I miss you. Yeah, I'm sorry I said that, or

1268
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: I did that. I'm sorry I let you down in

1269
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: that way, not feeling reassured that my apology will be accepted.

1270
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 1: Maybe because I'm a repeat offender, maybe because I have

1271
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: not resolved the issues. It takes a long time to

1272
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 1: grow up, and it's embarrassing to be forty and fifty

1273
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: and still have eighteen year old, twenty year old problems.

1274
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: It's embarrassing. So it's always nice to just get mad

1275
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 1: and blow up and strow them out the house. But

1276
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:10,680
Speaker 1: it's camouflage, and no matter how much you wear camouflage

1277
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: in the forest, you are still not a tree. And

1278
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: so I would say to the men, you have to

1279
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 1: be prepared to risk coming out from under your fig

1280
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: leaves and sow the Bible was said, or coming out

1281
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: of your camouflage and face your own hurt and insecurity

1282
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: in order to begin to get well. You can't heal

1283
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: if you can't admit what it is that you are feeling. Okay,

1284
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: if I go to the doctor and now tell him

1285
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: my toe is hurting, but I really got a toothache,

1286
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: and he puts some Mecure calm on my toe, and

1287
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 1: I go out with my face swollen and throbbing, it's

1288
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: not that I had a bad doctor. I never would

1289
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 1: admit where the pain was really coming from. And we

1290
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: have to be introspective enough to get down and where

1291
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: the pain is really coming from. So from a male perspective,

1292
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: that's my answer. I just thought, better, were you ever

1293
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 1: almost arrested, you know, and had to go to the

1294
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,520
Speaker 1: CPS office to keep your kids? Tell the story?

1295
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 2: Okay, what we talking about? An that's a great segue

1296
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 2: coming off of anger, Bishop, you know, anger is exactly

1297
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:26,879
Speaker 2: what I was feeling. I was in my first marriage

1298
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 2: and there was a We were having dinner and I

1299
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 2: looked out the window and I saw my husband at

1300
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 2: the time, this car was running, which I thought was strange.

1301
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 2: And he was upstairs and was like, I'm must sneak

1302
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 2: outside the house and see what was why to his

1303
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 2: car running. I think I knew that there was someone

1304
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: in a car. And when I got there, there was

1305
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 2: a woman in a car, and I was like, what

1306
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 2: are you doing with my husband? And she told me

1307
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 2: we're kicking And I thought, you know what else likes

1308
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 2: to kick it? Me? I too like to kick it.

1309
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 2: So I got in my car and I went forward

1310
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 2: and reverse, Oh, we're in over again into the car

1311
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,679
Speaker 2: while she was in it, and he came outside, hearing

1312
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 2: the clamor and thinking to himself, what in the world

1313
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 2: could be happening here? And he called the police.

1314
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: Uncle.

1315
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 2: And when he called the police on me, mind you

1316
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 2: I'm living in Virginia, so there's an element of isolation.

1317
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 2: It's not like I could just I think if I

1318
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 2: were living anywhere else, I probably would have grabbed the kids.

1319
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to my parents' house, but I'm there by myself,

1320
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 2: and I don't have anywhere else that I can go there.

1321
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 2: I had this one friend like, I'm not going to

1322
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 2: go to her house and build the night me and

1323
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 2: my kids. So I'm there essentially on my own, and

1324
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 2: they called the police on me, and the officer came

1325
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 2: up to me, and the car is still there because

1326
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 2: I blocked them in from the ram and get over

1327
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 2: and over again because what seems to be the problem here, ma'am,

1328
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 2: And I go, well, my husband brought his girlfriend to

1329
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 2: our house and I had a problem with that. And

1330
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 2: he goes, Okay, I'm gonna talk to them. And he

1331
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: talked to them, and he came back to me and

1332
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 2: he like, listen, I don't know what's going on here,

1333
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 2: but I'm not gonna give you a ticket. I'm not

1334
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 2: gonna arrest you, but I am going to have to

1335
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 2: write you up because you've got kids in the house.

1336
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 2: And because you have kids in the house, they're going

1337
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 2: to have to do a welfare check for you and

1338
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 2: the children. And so he drove off with her, literally

1339
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: stayed the night with her. Left the next day to

1340
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 2: go to work, and I packed up the kids and

1341
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 2: I went home because I knew I was on my

1342
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,719
Speaker 2: way to person that I couldn't afford to keep getting

1343
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 2: hungry like that without risking sman had some serious time

1344
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 2: in prison or losing my children.

1345
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:33,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure.

1346
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 2: Where I got that rage from. No, I'm not sure

1347
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 2: what the next question is, but throw that out there.

1348
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:58,480
Speaker 1: Tell them, yes, I know, I haven't looked at it myself.

1349
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 1: To pull up my camera. Yeah I can. I can

1350
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: get with you if I have to. But I'm a Swiss.

1351
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 2: Subject, Lory.

1352
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: Let's talk chapter number eight, finding pardon. This is testing.

1353
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 1: I'm a boomer asking you about a generation of music

1354
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 1: that I might mess up. Have you heard of this

1355
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: singer named Sierra Sierra's Prayer?

1356
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 2: Oh?

1357
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 1: Yes?

1358
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 2: What the what?

1359
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:31,719
Speaker 1: Yes?

1360
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:32,599
Speaker 2: What do you want to know about?

1361
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 1: Fears?

1362
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 2: Prayer?

1363
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 1: See, you don't give me no credit. I'm still here,

1364
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm still here. What prayer do you

1365
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:47,080
Speaker 1: believe women should say? Women looking for a make what

1366
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: should they be praying.

1367
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 2: I don't subscribe to that, because that was before I

1368
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 2: make things really jacked my.

1369
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: Life because we just got talking about.

1370
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 2: You know, and I do think that we have an

1371
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 2: opportunity to show women that their value is beyond the

1372
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:05,599
Speaker 2: role that they have in partnership. I mean said that

1373
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,640
Speaker 2: I have an incredible husband and I love him tremendously.

1374
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 2: I did not pray for a man. I did not

1375
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 2: pray for another marriage. I prayed and said that God

1376
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:17,720
Speaker 2: would search my heart, that God would reveal to me

1377
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 2: the areas in my life that he wanted to heal

1378
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 2: and develop, and that I would qualify every person that

1379
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 2: came into my life as a part of that either

1380
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: I was being a part of their healing and development

1381
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 2: or they were going to be a part of mine.

1382
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 2: And anyone who would take away from that health, that

1383
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 2: God would highlight them and give me the strength to

1384
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 2: walk away from them. And so when I met Terrey,

1385
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 2: I was met with the dilemma because though I was

1386
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 2: completely satisfied in my relationship with my children and my

1387
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 2: relationship with God and my life here in Dallas I

1388
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 2: bought my house, I'd lived there over a year, there

1389
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 2: was a part of me that knew that he was

1390
01:19:54,800 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 2: a part of God's next health for your life.

1391
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,640
Speaker 1: And you came and told me you were moving.

1392
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,520
Speaker 2: The golf Yeah, because I was finally.

1393
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was. That was that was.

1394
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 1: I can still remember standing in the door watching your

1395
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:17,440
Speaker 1: car pull off. That's that's what I mean about attachments

1396
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: and allowing learning to allow your children to have their

1397
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 1: own life and family, rather than to say I didn't

1398
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: lose a daughter, I gained the son. That sounds nice,

1399
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: but in reality, for this cause she a man leave

1400
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: his mother and father take them to him a wife,

1401
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:41,520
Speaker 1: They become one flesh and you're building family. So sometimes

1402
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 1: we're having Thanksgiving dinner and you're cooking Thanksgiving dinner. And

1403
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 1: letting that family have its own identity and develop its

1404
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: own culture comes with maturity that all roads don't lead

1405
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 1: to your house all the time, and being able to

1406
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 1: come to your house for Thanksgiving dinner. You know, that's

1407
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:04,639
Speaker 1: a transition for people who are used to being in control.

1408
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:10,919
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about it, not not talking about anybody

1409
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,640
Speaker 1: I know. But I heard I got a friend of

1410
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:20,839
Speaker 1: mine allegedly. Yeah yeah, but but but freedom, love without

1411
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: freedom isn't really love, And and you have to let

1412
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 1: people go so that they can be their highest and

1413
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 1: best self. I have to say this to you before

1414
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: we cut off you. You seem to have sustained, You

1415
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: have celebrated your tenth year, tenth year of marriage. If

1416
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 1: you argue, I never heard it. If you fight, I've

1417
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 1: never seen it. Uh. We call pet kumba, y'all. But

1418
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 1: there's another there. The other is out there.

1419
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 2: Uh.

1420
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 1: What what would you say is the secret? In a

1421
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: time where people divorce in three years and four years?

1422
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 1: What have you learned about life that keeps you coming

1423
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 1: home and keeps him coming home every night?

1424
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 2: That who I married ten honest, eleven years ago is

1425
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 2: both who I'm married to now and not. And I

1426
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 2: think that when I got married the second time, that

1427
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting to settle it to someone. I was

1428
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 2: choosing who I wanted to grow up with. And I

1429
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 2: feel like when you intermarriage with the perspective that this

1430
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 2: person's going to change and I'm going to change. The

1431
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 2: question is can be changed together and still feel at

1432
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 2: our core connected to one another? And so I think

1433
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: that above all we have a friendship. When we do

1434
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,640
Speaker 2: get ready to fuss or you know, have a disagreement,

1435
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 2: like hill coming there, and I just be like, he

1436
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 2: looks at me a certain way, I look at him

1437
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 2: a certain way. He's like, you know, he was tripping right,

1438
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, whatever, you know what I mean,

1439
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: Like we can have that type of dialogue. I can

1440
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 2: tell him, I can introduce myself to him. I can

1441
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 2: say that I feel like I'm changing, I don't feel

1442
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 2: like myself and he listens and he responds to that.

1443
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,480
Speaker 2: So I think friendship. I think being willing to introduce

1444
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 2: yourself over and over again to one another. I ask

1445
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 2: you change and to be willing to accept that. I'm

1446
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 2: not in control of his journey. I'm just here to

1447
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 2: support it. And so I would say, if I had

1448
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 2: to like ask anyone or to prepare anyone for marriage,

1449
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 2: I would say, can you marry this person right now

1450
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 2: as they are, without anything changing, and feel like you

1451
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 2: can spend the rest of your life with them? And

1452
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 2: if you can say that, that's a big step because

1453
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 2: a lot of times are like yeah, I want them

1454
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 2: to anyone who knows that, it's like, don't get married

1455
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 2: because you're accounting one those things growing and changing and developing.

1456
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 2: And then now, but if you can marry this person

1457
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 2: is as is starting. Then the second thing is can

1458
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 2: you be flexible enough for when they change in either

1459
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 2: direction towards growth and sometimes towards deterioration, and can you

1460
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 2: be in attention of that? But I think the foundation

1461
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 2: of friendship and acceptance helps you to have flexibility, as

1462
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 2: like ships you from seasons.

1463
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I also think that sometimes you

1464
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:35,680
Speaker 1: marry your opposite because they're different from you, and you

1465
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: date and you say, you know, he was born in

1466
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 1: September and my mother was born in September, and both

1467
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 1: of us are birthdays are on the fifteenth, and they

1468
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:46,880
Speaker 1: came we came from the same state, we went to

1469
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 1: same school, Da da da da da da. But yet

1470
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 1: you end up marrying somebody whose personality fills the gap

1471
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: in yours. They're courageous where you are vulnerable. They are

1472
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 1: vulnerable where you are correc ages. And then after you

1473
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 1: learn all of that about them, then you start trying

1474
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 1: to change them, like somebody buying a fixer up house.

1475
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: And if you don't see your role as fixing the

1476
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 1: other person, but accepting the other person you know and

1477
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: drawing joy, it's like your mother fixing the house. Up

1478
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 1: for Christmas. You know, if I was single, there would

1479
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 1: not be a bulb on the coffee table. Okay, nothing

1480
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: that I got to take down again. However, I enjoy

1481
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: her enjoying it and found out that's important to her,

1482
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:48,519
Speaker 1: and that gives her something that I can appreciate because

1483
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 1: it brings her joy, you know, and she enjoys what

1484
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: I enjoy because she understands that I'm not like her.

1485
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't like isolation. I'm not an introvert, though I'm

1486
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 1: becoming watched you get, you start, you start becoming like

1487
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: each other, and it changes everything. I've spent the last

1488
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 1: hour or so bantering, talking, sharing with you, sitting here,

1489
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: thinking what it's going to be like when you're sitting

1490
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 1: here and kinsey Ella or sitting over there. I hope

1491
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: it's as wonderful of an experience as it is for

1492
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 1: me to stand here, to sit here, to look into

1493
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 1: the daughters dies with my daughter and talk to you

1494
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 1: and be so proud of what you have become.

1495
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:56,560
Speaker 2: Well, that's scruts. I think that I feel face.

1496
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: You feel things, don't camouflag. Yeah, yeah, no, that's very

1497
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 1: very true. I'm in awe of all the things you

1498
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 1: may you manage simultaneously. I'm in awe in how you

1499
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 1: self correct. I'm in awe of how you are willing

1500
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 1: to take on new tasks and willing to be wrong

1501
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,600
Speaker 1: and willing to get it right, and willing to do

1502
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:26,879
Speaker 1: it over, and willing to give a part of yourself

1503
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:30,799
Speaker 1: to the world, knowing that in so doing, your giving

1504
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 1: a part of yourself to people who don't always appreciate

1505
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 1: the gift that you gave. And yet you keep on giving.

1506
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 1: That compassion and that ability to give is a God

1507
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: gift to continue to give and not expect anything in return,

1508
01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:53,640
Speaker 1: but get back up there and do it again, especially

1509
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 1: when it's not your nature to be up there in

1510
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 1: the first place. And I know that, and you know

1511
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:05,720
Speaker 1: that the people who watch don't know that. Chapter number nine,

1512
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 1: gender roles evidently reached. An article came out with holler

1513
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 1: Berry talking about her husband saying that he didn't want

1514
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,679
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship because of the gender roles

1515
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 1: had become blurred. Are gender roles still appropriate? Do they still?

1516
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: Do they still exist? Well?

1517
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 2: You know, because I grew up watching you cook and

1518
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: mom says she hates cooking, I think that I've always

1519
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 2: had this perspective that the roles aren't as rigid. But

1520
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 2: I do think that as we even see some emotional

1521
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 2: flexibility within men, that we are seeing stell of flexibility

1522
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 2: and what it will to show up as a man

1523
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 2: and a woman in different relationships, with women sometimes being

1524
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 2: higher earning than their male counterparts. It has had to

1525
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 2: make us kind of get out of this mentality of

1526
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:02,720
Speaker 2: what it means to be a land or what it

1527
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 2: means to be a woman. I think that there's a

1528
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:10,160
Speaker 2: space for every expression a gluer person is, and I

1529
01:29:10,200 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 2: think that it's a good thing that we're seeing gender

1530
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 2: roles be challenged and limits it so that we can

1531
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,960
Speaker 2: determine what is authentic to who we are versus what

1532
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 2: is this trying to fit into someone's box? And where

1533
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:23,040
Speaker 2: do we have space to maybe want to learn and

1534
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 2: where do we want to stay the same.

1535
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 1: The very fact that we call it rolls implies acting, yeah,

1536
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:32,719
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that we need to start

1537
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 1: not with the gender, but with the acting yeah right,

1538
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:40,599
Speaker 1: and not have a prescripted understanding of what Just because

1539
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: I'm a man doesn't mean that I may pay bills well,

1540
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 1: or that I make the most money, or that I

1541
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 1: can't cook, or that I can't sol. Just because you're

1542
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:53,600
Speaker 1: a woman doesn't mean that you make the best biscuits.

1543
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 1: So letting people do what they're best at doing, it's

1544
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 1: not a role. It's letting me be me, you know,

1545
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 1: and then fitting our marital construct around our strengths, and

1546
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 1: let whoever, if you exceed at making money and I

1547
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:17,320
Speaker 1: exceed at raising the kids, that that's okay. There's still

1548
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 1: a room for both of us at the table or

1549
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,959
Speaker 1: vice versa. We tried to do what we do best.

1550
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 1: I went out and earned the living. I always was

1551
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 1: the breadwinner. But your mother sat down and paid the bills.

1552
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: I had to sit down and pay the bills. Nobody

1553
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 1: would ever get paid. You know. I had the money

1554
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 1: sitting up in the bank account. She's good at that.

1555
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 1: She doesn't mind that, and she'll trace down every little penny.

1556
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm more prepared to be the provider, but not the distributor.

1557
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 1: And I think part of the mystery of marriage is

1558
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 1: figuring out who's really good at what they're doing and

1559
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:59,680
Speaker 1: who gets fulfillment out of doing what they're doing, and

1560
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 1: then do that rather than prescripting a role. And I

1561
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:06,520
Speaker 1: think this is what happens in a lot of marriages

1562
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 1: because in my day, women played with all houses and

1563
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,160
Speaker 1: they had an idea of what the husband should be.

1564
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 1: And they're looking for a guy to play a role

1565
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: that he's never read the script. Let me meet me,

1566
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: not let me try out for a role in a

1567
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 1: play that you've already evaluated, and you throw me away

1568
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 1: because I did an audition. Well meet me, love me,

1569
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 1: except me, and as long as I am a contributing

1570
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:45,599
Speaker 1: factor and not a deterren in your life, then let's

1571
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:49,840
Speaker 1: craft what works best for us and keep everybody else

1572
01:31:49,960 --> 01:31:54,800
Speaker 1: in laws and neighbors out of our business because the

1573
01:31:55,160 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: marriage is personal. That was one of the best so

1574
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 1: I got when I was getting ready to get married

1575
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: to your mother's that marriage is personal and it's not

1576
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 1: a one size fits all and you don't have to

1577
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: live up to anybody else's expectation. Chapter number ten, Women Evolved.

1578
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:23,400
Speaker 1: So tell me this. I've seen women that are loose

1579
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 1: merge into woman evolved. Woman evolved was already gone. When

1580
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,559
Speaker 1: women are loose was out there. I didn't want to

1581
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 1: be on one end of the country. Holler and women

1582
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 1: and are loosing you on the other end of the country.

1583
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:36,679
Speaker 1: Hollow and women evolved, and I felt like, you're a woman,

1584
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 1: so I can turn that over to you. Now they

1585
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: fuse together and become one entity. What is your vision

1586
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:46,600
Speaker 1: for Woman evolved?

1587
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting? So we had Woman Evolve after

1588
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,479
Speaker 2: the Transition and Globe Life Field where for two years

1589
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 2: in a row we saw basically forty thousandeen and we

1590
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 2: had to downsize because that stadium wasn't available for twenty

1591
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 2: twenty five. And in downsizing, we actually moved over into

1592
01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 2: an overflow section at Georgia World Conference Center and so

1593
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:13,680
Speaker 2: we had twenty thousand and State parm Arena. But then

1594
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 2: we had this overflow expo experience, and it taught me

1595
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:20,760
Speaker 2: a valuable lesson about what growth looks like because the

1596
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 2: average person may say, hey, we had to down size,

1597
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:26,479
Speaker 2: we're loosing ground. But in downsizing, it allowed me an

1598
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:30,439
Speaker 2: opportunity to drain that space that Georgia World POWERCRIS Center

1599
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 2: showed me that there is an untapped potential as it

1600
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 2: relates to the Woman evolved experiential opportunity. And so it's

1601
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 2: shaped how I dreamed in totality about Women Evolved. What

1602
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 2: does it look like to tell this story in many

1603
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 2: different facets, not just with live events, but how do

1604
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:51,839
Speaker 2: we tell the stories of women who are struggling to evolve?

1605
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 2: How do we tell the woman of the story of

1606
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 2: women who've made it to the other side. And so

1607
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 2: I do think in many ways that I'm looking our

1608
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 2: motto is no Woman Left Behind is looking for the

1609
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 2: woman who has been left behind and creating connection points

1610
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 2: through content, experiences, social media that allows her to feel seen, loved,

1611
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 2: and then space to grow and evolve. And so I'm

1612
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 2: dreaming a different dream about our experiences, but also about

1613
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 2: our overall imprint as it relates to media and gerald

1614
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 2: is there ever, do.

1615
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 1: You foresee a time that you would ever have multiple locations,

1616
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:32,240
Speaker 1: even on multiple continents for sure? Joy, Yes, that's good.

1617
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 1: That's what I thought too. We heard some horrible stats recently.

1618
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:44,679
Speaker 1: Over three hundred thousand Black women have left the workforce.

1619
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:48,240
Speaker 2: Lost their jouals, left Chist the Hervey Waters, Tennis.

1620
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:52,560
Speaker 1: Some of them pushed out, most of them pushed out forestyle,

1621
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:57,000
Speaker 1: most many of them are breadwinners. Those of them that

1622
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 1: were not primary breadwinners contributed to the world alfare of

1623
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:03,479
Speaker 1: their family. So while we look at that three hundred thousand,

1624
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 1: which is a huge number. It affects hundreds of thousands

1625
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 1: more people who are affected by that sort of thing.

1626
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: How can we continue to empower women economically who are

1627
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 1: dealing with the adversity of the time said we're living

1628
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:19,720
Speaker 1: in now.

1629
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is, before we had that stat

1630
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:25,320
Speaker 2: about black women leaving the workforce, we had statistics about

1631
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:29,840
Speaker 2: black women and education and black women in entrepreneurship, almost

1632
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:33,240
Speaker 2: as if there was some type of preparation in advance

1633
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:36,360
Speaker 2: for this downfall. I think that now more than ever,

1634
01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:40,440
Speaker 2: that we have an opportunity to take care of one another. Historically,

1635
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:43,680
Speaker 2: black women have taken care of not just themselves, but

1636
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,800
Speaker 2: other people and their communities. And I think those who

1637
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:50,680
Speaker 2: are in positions of power, those who have been educated,

1638
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:53,720
Speaker 2: now have no choice but to figure out how do

1639
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:57,480
Speaker 2: I again try and figure things out for my community.

1640
01:35:57,560 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 2: But this time I'm hoping that we're able to do

1641
01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 2: it with this sense of collaboration and with the tools

1642
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 2: and resources that were afforded to us before this transition.

1643
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:11,400
Speaker 2: I want to believe that the pendulum will swing it

1644
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:14,720
Speaker 2: for as we know that history has this you know,

1645
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 2: cyclical nature. But I think in the meantime that We

1646
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:21,240
Speaker 2: have to encourage one another to take care of one another,

1647
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 2: and that means not waiting for someone to say what

1648
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:27,920
Speaker 2: they need, but being curious about our sisters. If I

1649
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 2: was in her situation and I still had a job,

1650
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:33,040
Speaker 2: If I were in her situation, I was raising these children,

1651
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 2: what would I need and how can I take care

1652
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 2: of her? We're going to have to be proactive and

1653
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:38,720
Speaker 2: taking care of one another and so on, get to

1654
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 2: one another's dreams.

1655
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:49,280
Speaker 1: Chapter eleven. Celebrities are people too. You know you at

1656
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:53,720
Speaker 1: one LA when you were out there pastoring with being

1657
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 1: the first lady for Pastor Torrey, you had like ten

1658
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:03,879
Speaker 1: and O's come to your church on a regular basis.

1659
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 1: You're right in the middle of Hollywood, so their brandy

1660
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:11,320
Speaker 1: would come by. Different people would come by your church,

1661
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: Kelly Roland and many others. Uh, how did that affect you?

1662
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 1: And how do you think you've affected them?

1663
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 2: I think, if anything, it helped me to see that

1664
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 2: people are people, no matter how big and fancy their

1665
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:35,760
Speaker 2: names and titles are, that we all need the same Jesus,

1666
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,360
Speaker 2: that this world is hard on each of us in

1667
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:43,920
Speaker 2: different ways and with capacities. And I think that hopefully

1668
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:47,160
Speaker 2: we created a space where you know, we didn't do like,

1669
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 2: oh here's the i P seeding and your b ip entrance.

1670
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 2: They just came in, sat down, got what they needed,

1671
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:58,639
Speaker 2: and left. And so I think in normalizing their place

1672
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 2: of encounter that hopefully it made them feel like there's

1673
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:04,760
Speaker 2: a safe space to just be human. And I think

1674
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 2: for me, it's a reminder to never be measurerized by

1675
01:38:08,200 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 2: who a person is, to forget that God may be

1676
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:14,880
Speaker 2: giving you something that that person needs to balance those

1677
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:16,479
Speaker 2: skills well, so you.

1678
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 1: Weren't intimidated about who they were. You dealt with the

1679
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:23,240
Speaker 1: person here that because you and I talked earlier about

1680
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:27,080
Speaker 1: understanding the difference between what you do on stage and

1681
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 1: who you are and losing normalcy. A lot of people

1682
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:35,400
Speaker 1: that don't see famous people as normal people, and they

1683
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:39,640
Speaker 1: take pot shots at them easily because they get to

1684
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:43,760
Speaker 1: have an other look at those other people, and they

1685
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:49,320
Speaker 1: demonize and criticize what often they are praying to be,

1686
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:54,000
Speaker 1: and they need a place to go and to counsel

1687
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 1: and to get healed and to get restored and to

1688
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:00,439
Speaker 1: get encouragement even if it's not perfect, Even if they're

1689
01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:04,160
Speaker 1: not perfect. The other people in the pews aren't perfect either,

1690
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:08,679
Speaker 1: you know, but finding a way. We can't have people

1691
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 1: that are untouchable because we're more concerned about our brand

1692
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 1: than we are the welfare of people. You have to

1693
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:18,600
Speaker 1: be willing to get your hands in the dirt. The

1694
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:22,760
Speaker 1: first thing we see about God is that he got

1695
01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:26,519
Speaker 1: his hands dirty. And when Jesus comes with the woman

1696
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:28,800
Speaker 1: called and adultery, he got his hands dirt. And you've

1697
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:31,040
Speaker 1: got to be willing to get your hands dirty and

1698
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:35,240
Speaker 1: have people walk away from you. And you've done that,

1699
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:38,599
Speaker 1: and I think it's an exciting thing. Chapter number twelve,

1700
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 1: acceptance and ridiction have other women preachers received?

1701
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 2: Initially, I feel like they didn't really understand if I

1702
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:56,400
Speaker 2: was a woman preacher or not wish to be Friday neither,

1703
01:39:56,640 --> 01:40:01,640
Speaker 2: so we were all in the same body. Sh I

1704
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,960
Speaker 2: don't know, because I'm not as traditional as some of

1705
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 2: the preachers who I grew up listening to are, but

1706
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:14,040
Speaker 2: I'm not as laid back as something together, So I

1707
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,400
Speaker 2: don't think they really knew what to do with me.

1708
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:21,559
Speaker 2: But there have been some really incredible veterans and women's

1709
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:24,600
Speaker 2: ministry that have loved on me and taking care of me.

1710
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:28,080
Speaker 2: Marissa Ferro and that I was blogging when Marissa Fara

1711
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:33,400
Speaker 2: was preaching. She's been an incredible just I do think

1712
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 2: that there's a generation of just like I would call

1713
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:41,679
Speaker 2: us up and coming women preachers that are building bonds

1714
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,599
Speaker 2: and connections. But I think initially everyone's trying to find

1715
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:46,240
Speaker 2: their footing, and no one really knew what to do

1716
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:49,080
Speaker 2: with me, and I didn't know what to do with myself,

1717
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:54,400
Speaker 2: and so it's settling. It's settling now good.

1718
01:40:54,800 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: That's a good thing because having a circle of people

1719
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,080
Speaker 1: who get you, it doesn't have to be a big

1720
01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:08,960
Speaker 1: circle Jesus said Peter, James and John, but a circle

1721
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:13,600
Speaker 1: whose right or die. It's very, very valuable.

1722
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,479
Speaker 4: Because this is s hard, you know, I want to

1723
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 4: fix and because you mentioned it and because I said

1724
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 4: it as well, I think it's worth exploring.

1725
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 2: Not here, but I think as a part of just

1726
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:33,519
Speaker 2: my process and relationship with God is the expecting rejection.

1727
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:38,479
Speaker 2: I don't think that's good. I want to fix that

1728
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,519
Speaker 2: because I do think it changes and shapes the way

1729
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 2: I show up in ministry and perhaps in the world,

1730
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:49,320
Speaker 2: and what I expect or don't want from people. And

1731
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 2: I don't want to live my life expecting rejection. But

1732
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 2: I don't want to need acceptance, but I do think

1733
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 2: to expect differently. It's something that I want to focus

1734
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:06,719
Speaker 2: on in my next chapter, Like how do I chose

1735
01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 2: this expectation?

1736
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 1: You know?

1737
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:12,040
Speaker 2: Not for nothing? We stepped into the Potter's house as

1738
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 2: Colas and your pastors after the Bush of Joey's, and

1739
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 2: there's an element of expecting rejection there and it haunts me,

1740
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 2: this idea of your going to be rejected from pregnancy

1741
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:29,200
Speaker 2: to now. And I feel like, for this next chapter

1742
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:30,880
Speaker 2: in my life, I want to shed the skin of

1743
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 2: expecting rejection. But I don't know what I'm going to

1744
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:36,160
Speaker 2: put on instead.

1745
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 1: No, I don't know if this is an answer or not.

1746
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:49,479
Speaker 1: But Joe Noah after the flood got drunk.

1747
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what are you saying?

1748
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:56,560
Speaker 1: No?

1749
01:42:58,080 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 2: Okay, all right?

1750
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:03,479
Speaker 1: In the process of getting drunk, one son in somewhere

1751
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 1: or another with the scholars debate about it took advantage

1752
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:12,519
Speaker 1: of him, but nobody talks about the sons that covered him.

1753
01:43:11,680 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1754
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:19,680
Speaker 1: And I think you stop worrying about rejection when you

1755
01:43:19,800 --> 01:43:22,880
Speaker 1: have a circle of people around you that insulate you

1756
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:28,320
Speaker 1: and not condoning wrong doing or anything like that, but

1757
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 1: insulate you and our ride or die. As we will say,

1758
01:43:33,160 --> 01:43:38,200
Speaker 1: they become a blanket. Now the same guy who covered them,

1759
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 1: that brought them through the flood, they got reciprocity that

1760
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:47,639
Speaker 1: if whatever you want, you give. If you want love,

1761
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:49,599
Speaker 1: you give love. If you want to smile, you give

1762
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:52,280
Speaker 1: a smile. And I think it comes back to you.

1763
01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 1: It's an investment. It takes time. You're on the arc together,

1764
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, but but it comes back to you. And

1765
01:44:02,439 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't always come back to you from every son

1766
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: or every person, but it comes back to you in

1767
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:12,880
Speaker 1: enough quantity that we don't read about Lord getting drunk again.

1768
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:17,519
Speaker 1: And I think if you benefit, if you will allow

1769
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:22,120
Speaker 1: the people in who have the blanket, it will somehow

1770
01:44:22,240 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 1: balance out the people who seek to defil you somewhere. Surely, well,

1771
01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 1: you have been listening to my next chapter, our next chapter.

1772
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:36,839
Speaker 1: What about your next chapter? How are you navigating that chapter?

1773
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 1: And hopefully something that we said or did today in

1774
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:44,160
Speaker 1: some way has helped you to navigate some sensitive situation

1775
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:47,639
Speaker 1: relationship on the job, in the home, and the marriage

1776
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,600
Speaker 1: and with the ex wife, with the ex husband, or

1777
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:55,200
Speaker 1: just navigate your own emotions. The one thing that's wonderful,

1778
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:59,520
Speaker 1: Grace allows us to have a next chapter. Not everybody

1779
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:04,800
Speaker 1: gets to have one. Somebody's book just closed, yours has not.

1780
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:11,160
Speaker 1: You have the pen write your next sector. I'm TV

1781
01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:14,559
Speaker 1: Jakes and I'm glad to have an opportunity to be

1782
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:19,200
Speaker 1: your host and to have my wonderful guests, my daughter

1783
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:24,559
Speaker 1: Sarah Jakes Roberts. Hey everybody, I want to take this

1784
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:28,040
Speaker 1: time to thank you for watching the Next Chapter podcast.

1785
01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:33,799
Speaker 1: If this conversation inspired you, helped you reflect on an idea,

1786
01:45:34,160 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: or spark something new inside of you, make sure to like, comment,

1787
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 1: and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember, life

1788
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:50,719
Speaker 1: isn't about how you begin, It's about how you finished strong.

1789
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:57,400
Speaker 1: So start your next chapter with us right here every

1790
01:45:57,439 --> 01:45:57,679
Speaker 1: week