1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ Presents. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: We have been obsessed with this awe pair affair murders trial, 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: that's what it's been dubbed. But to catch up. Brendan Banfield, 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: a former IRS agent, is on trial now and he 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: is accused of conspiring with his awe pair who he 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: was having an affair with, to not only kill his wife, 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: but to pin it on someone else. And in order 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: to do that, according to the prosecution, he and the 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: a pair went onto a fetish website to find someone 10 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: who unknowingly agreed to be a part of their plan. 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: He thought that he was going to have a sexual 12 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: encounter with Brendan Banfield's wife, Christine, in which he was 13 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: to She wanted to simulate a rape scene, and the idea, 14 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, was that Brendan would walk in on 15 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: this and kill Joseph Ryan and then stab his wife 16 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: to death, but make it look as though Joseph Ryan 17 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: was stabbing his wife to death, so that he is 18 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: the hero, not the murderer. That is basically the essence 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: of the prosecution's case. And TJ we have not been 20 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: able to stop watching this. 21 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,559 Speaker 2: I mean, this is and Look, it's a little cute. 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: I guess ou perh affair is what is being called. 23 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: But these are the types of stories that even in Hollywood, 24 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: they have a difficult time scripting. So let's bring in 25 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: Alison Triesel, our expert, our legal expert, defense attorney who 26 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,279 Speaker 2: has been helping us through a number of high profile cases. 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: And Alison, you're never shy as a defense attorney about 28 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: telling us in some of these cases. Man, that defense attorney, 29 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: he really took a stinker of a case. Now tell 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: me how much of an uphill climb is it for 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 2: a defense attorney, for the defense attorney who took this case. 32 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 3: Okay, first of all, I'm just going to geek out 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: for one second, because you know, I've been practicing criminal 34 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: defense forever and I talk about cases all the time, 35 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: and then I watch criminal cases, so, like you know, 36 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 3: true crime Junkie, But cessted is an understatement. Amy, my goodness, 37 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 3: this one is. You're right. I mean, no one could 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: script a story like this and for us to watch 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: it and believe it if it wasn't in fact happening 40 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: in front of our eyes as we watch witness after witness. 41 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: I mean, my house could have been on fire. And 42 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 3: I was not going to turn away from Julianne's testimony, right, 43 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 3: I mean I was. I was going to watch gabble 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: to gabble because I wanted to know who the prosecution who, 45 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 3: in my opinion, to deal with the devil, to hear 46 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: what she had to say, because she may be walking 47 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: out of here scott free, which is incredible because in 48 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: her testimony she admits to shooting a man and it 49 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: was probably the fatal blow. But her testimony, in my opinion, 50 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: is the lynchmark of the case. It is the most 51 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: important thing that comes out of this entire case. And 52 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 3: if she is to be believed by the jury, this 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: man is going to get convicted and he's going to 54 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: spend the rest of his life in prison. That's how 55 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: I feel about the case. 56 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: Do you think she came off as believable her story? 57 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: You know, I'm troubled by her testimony. I do believe 58 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: her story to be true. I did not like her affect. 59 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: I did not like her denials. I didn't I thought 60 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: that she should have she already has the sweetheart deal 61 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: owned up to her actual role and involvement in this, 62 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 3: and I didn't think that she did that honestly enough. 63 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 3: I think that in many ways this relationship speaks for 64 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 3: itself in terms of the power dynamic. She is a 65 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: young twenty one year old Brazilian gal who comes to 66 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: this country not knowing anybody. He is a successful, uh 67 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 3: you know, decades older man who she falls in love with, 68 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: as we know from the the social media where she 69 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: describes him, you know, as just sort of this godlike 70 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: person who has swept her off her feet. And so 71 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: I think there was a real power or dynamic there was. 72 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 3: She was the inferior in this relationship, but she was 73 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: all in. She was all in if this is if 74 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 3: this is to be believed. She was all in on 75 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: the plan, which she called what she called it a plan. 76 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 3: She was very active in setting up those social media 77 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 3: posts which she wrote. Are the exchanges on the fed 78 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 3: life site that she wrote some of them. And she 79 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 3: kept saying, Brandon made me this, and Brandon told me 80 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 3: to do that, and and I didn't think that was necessary. 81 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 3: I didn't think it was necessary, and I think that 82 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: it did diminish her credibility because she was there step 83 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 3: by step, and you know that picture of her a 84 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 3: shooting range, you know, Brandon told me to get the gun. 85 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 3: Brandon told me to do this, Brandon told me to 86 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: do that. Well, she was all on board for it. 87 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 3: And one of the things that I think the prosecution 88 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 3: should have done better is walk through her rationale and 89 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: had her They should have brought her to tears. They 90 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: should have brought her to tears and showed that she 91 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: actually had remorse. The only time I saw that she 92 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: cried at all was when she was talking about the 93 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 3: little girl, Victoria, the couple's daughter. But she brutally killed 94 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: and not at Brandon's direction, because she said, apparently in 95 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: her testimony she said, well, Brandon, he's still moving and 96 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: Brandon didn't respond, and so she pulls out the weapon 97 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: that's in her sweater and shoots him, and shoots the 98 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: guy dead. And you know, at some point she says 99 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 3: she covered her ears, she covered her eyes. But she 100 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: walks upstairs, leaving the four year old with an iPad 101 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 3: in the basement. Okay, which, by the way, doesn't make 102 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: sense to anybody who would believe the story that this 103 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: guy is in the house, and she doesn't stay with 104 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: this with this toddler. While the law enforcement husband goes 105 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: to figure out what's going on that doesn't make sense 106 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: to me. So I wanted to see. I wanted to 107 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: see a little bit more contrition and remorse and sadness 108 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: from her, and I didn't see it. Now that said, 109 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: is she to be disbelieved? Did the prosecution need her? 110 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 3: Did they have to give her this kind of deal 111 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: because she is, in fact the backbone of their case. 112 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: And my answer is. 113 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, so yes, we feel validated because we thought 114 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: that same thing, like, if you don't have the O pair, 115 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: you don't actually have a case. However, you mentioned her 116 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: lack of attrition, I would also say what she did 117 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: after the fact. She moved right into the master bedroom, 118 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: put a picture of her and Brandon up where a 119 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: picture of that used to be there with Christine and Brandon. 120 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: She moved her clothes into what was Christine's closet, just 121 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: she just moved in and became and assumed. Yeah, assumed 122 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: the role. 123 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: When I saw the Brazilian jersey move from the guest 124 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: room into the master bedroom, and then I saw the 125 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: picture of the two of them sitting on the nightstand 126 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 3: right next to the part of the bed where Christine 127 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 3: used to sleep. 128 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: It is disgusting I have chills just thinking about that. 129 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 4: So as a juror, and I am one the cutian, 130 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 4: should have addressed it, should have addressed and said, do 131 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 4: you feel badly now for that? 132 00:08:59,080 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: Do you write? 133 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: Because as a juror, I'm watching and seeing this woman 134 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: do all say Brandon made me do it. Brandon made 135 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: me do it, and yet move right in assume the 136 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: role of mom and wife and start living this life 137 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: that she basically took from or contributed to taking from 138 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: Christine by her own admission. And now she turns the 139 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: table and throws it all at Brendan. That puts credibility 140 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: at issue, just for me, I think as a as 141 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: a juror, I'm wondering. 142 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: Wow. 143 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: And then to know that she is going to walk 144 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: away after this testimony, free living in Brazil, possibly with 145 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: Netflix deals, making money and profiting off of this crime 146 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: and saying that she deserves it that how much of 147 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: an impact does that have? 148 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: Alison simply put, does the jury have to believe her 149 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,599 Speaker 2: in order to convict him? 150 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: So let me tell you an interesting thing, and this 151 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: is this is where my lawyering comes in. Okay, because 152 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: we're all having this wonderful fodder. But here's the interest 153 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: same thing. Right, He's in a bad spot because even 154 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: if he tries, and we really don't know, and I'm 155 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 3: listening for it, I'm listening for it. I'm listening for 156 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 3: it in the opening, I'm listening for it in the 157 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: questioning by the defense attorney. We don't know what his 158 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: defense is yet. We really don't. And I'm sort of 159 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 3: befuddled by that because here's the legal problem they have. 160 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 3: They can't point the finger at her and say, well, no, no, 161 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: she was the mastermind, because in a crime like this, 162 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 3: both of them can get convicted of murder. So even 163 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 3: if she planned it, he participated in it. And even 164 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 3: if she was the one that sent the majority of 165 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: those fet life you know, email exchanges, that doesn't take 166 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: away the fact that he participated in the killing of 167 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: his wife. In the setup of this poorche lub coming there, 168 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: going to their house, he's sitting at McDonald's. There's a 169 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: lot of pre planning involved. He goes upstairs. How are 170 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 3: they going, Even if they are able to turn the 171 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: tables on Christine, are they going to say he had 172 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: no idea this was happening. He had no idea that 173 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 3: this is what she had planned. That's not believable to 174 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: me either. Is their defense then going to be so 175 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 3: even if that is, even if a juror says, well, 176 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 3: you know what, she was more culpable than she led 177 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: us to believe, he's still culpable. He's still culpable. So 178 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: legally the prosecutions got him against the wall on that 179 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: because just because Amy and I, they can prove that 180 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: I was more involved or I was the mastermind of 181 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: this crime, it doesn't mean that Amy is not guilty too. 182 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 3: So legally they they've got a problem. And then t J, 183 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 3: you're looking at me like kind of like that that 184 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: I that I. But then defend's going to be that, No, 185 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: it was mister Ryan. This she she actually was the 186 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: one that engaged him in the fet life site. It 187 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: was Christine. It was Christine that planned this, and and 188 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 3: her husband is a hero. He did shoot him because 189 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: this man was raping his wife. 190 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: But then, Allison, you got to prove that this twenty 191 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: one year old Brazilian has now made up this whole 192 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: story and lie to get herself back to Brazil and free. 193 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 2: Is that what we're talking about. I would have a 194 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: hard time believing that it's as well. The change signed 195 00:12:59,040 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: thing is. 196 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 3: The defense needed to much better than it did, in 197 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 3: my opinion. In my opinion, hammer home the sweetheart, unbelievable, 198 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: unheard of deal that this girl, who admittedly kills somebody 199 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 3: is lands the fatal gunshot, is going to go home. 200 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: That she would have said anything. 201 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 4: She's how rare if they told her that that this, 202 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 4: that she was purple, and that the sky was yellow, 203 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: and she would have said any single thing on the 204 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 4: planet to go home. 205 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 3: And and I would have I would have really gone 206 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 3: after the fact that this don't I mean not only 207 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: not only is she envisioning a sweet life after the fact, 208 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: but but I that that she's getting her commissary and 209 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: her phone calls paid by a movie and TV producers. 210 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 3: Oh my, would I have gone after that? 211 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean it definitely obviously affects her credibility. I 212 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: was curious about what impact do you think it had 213 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: for her not to remember almost anything in terms of 214 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: the planning. She got combative even at times with the 215 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: defense attorney saying she didn't know something that significant, something 216 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: that important to what she was testifying to, and she 217 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: couldn't remember where she was, where the computer was, who 218 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: wrote the email. She couldn't remember any of the details, 219 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: but on. 220 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 3: Direct she said, Brandon, Brandon, Brandon, Brandon did this. Oh 221 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 3: that was Brandon. That was Brandon. But the weird part 222 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: about that is her deal's already done, so there really 223 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 3: was no reason for her to be so evasive. There 224 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: was really no reason for her to be so combative 225 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 3: because her deal is already done and the only thing 226 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 3: that's predicated on is her telling the truth. So why 227 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: not own some of it? Why not own some of it? 228 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 3: I think it would have made her more credible if 229 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 3: she would have owned it. But at the end of 230 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 3: the day, the jury says to itself, were well, does 231 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 3: do the pieces fit? Does the story that she has 232 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: told us make more sense than whatever whatever story the 233 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: defense is going to present. Okay, here is this compassionate, 234 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 3: devoted mother and nurse, no history of having these odd 235 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 3: sexual fetishes. Okay, all of a sudden, were to believe 236 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: that she's super into this fetish lifestyle that she is 237 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: arranged and I'm going to find it because it's such 238 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: an unbelievable quote, what mother? What mother? And what nurse 239 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: is going to ask that? Look, I'll be asleep in 240 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 3: bed come straight upstairs, cut off the clothing, timey, rape me, 241 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: simple and fun? 242 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: What what? 243 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: And the more I cry if I cry, if I 244 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: tell you to stop, keep going? 245 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 3: I mean, what. 246 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 4: And what do you? 247 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: I was actually shocked to hear, in terms of the 248 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: O Pairs testimony, her talking about how they had to 249 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: go through several different potential men to come over because shockingly, 250 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: they wanted. 251 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 4: To meet ahead of time. 252 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: If you're going to do something this dramatic and this, 253 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying that is credible. I'm shocked that 254 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: someone was willing to agree to do this without having 255 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: met the person first to say, let's just establish trust 256 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: here that this is something that we both are okay with. 257 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: Well, by the way, that's one of the things that 258 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 3: if I'm the defense, I'm gonna I'm going to attack him. 259 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of person is like, yeah, I'm 260 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: all the ways, I'm totally down with like this, this 261 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: like rape fantasy and bringing a knife and bringing zip 262 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 3: ties and break I mean, this is something I'm going 263 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 3: after him. I mean, if you're going to talk about 264 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: whatever defense they have, you're going after someone like that. 265 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: And and let me say something about the BDIA that 266 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 3: BDSM lifestyle. I you know, I've had cases involving involving that, 267 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 3: and it is there's a code. I mean, there's an 268 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 3: actual code where you do establish a relationship and you 269 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 3: do have safe words, and you do meet in public 270 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: and in person. And so it was unusual that this 271 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 3: person was automatically willing. Either it shows some real depravity 272 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 3: on his part or that he wasn't really familiar with 273 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 3: the the code and lifestyle of people that do this, 274 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 3: because it is not unusual that they build a rapport 275 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 3: that they meet in person, that they meet in public, 276 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 3: that they establish. 277 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: That would make total sense. 278 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, ah TJ. Look at that. 279 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: I learned something. 280 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 3: I've been any of your listeners to say, well, how 281 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 3: does she know so much about it? No? No, no, 282 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 3: no no. 283 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: No wait talking about you were talking about robot. 284 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 4: I don't know anything, both of us talking about. 285 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: All right, Alison, my last thing here. You tell me. Obviously, normally, 286 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: naturally you do not want your client, a defense client, 287 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: to get up on the stand, but in this case, 288 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: just give me any ways. He could possibly help himself 289 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 2: if he were to testify in his own defense. 290 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 3: So he's got to own up the affair. He's got 291 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: to own the affair he has. He's got to deny, deny, deny. 292 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 3: He's got to deny that he plotted to kill his wife. 293 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 3: He's got to deny that he went on these fetish 294 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 3: websites and set up those accounts. He's got to deny, deny, deny, 295 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 3: and a jury has to believe him over Juliana. And 296 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 3: he's got to say, Look, the only time that she 297 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 3: turned against me because they were communicating and she was 298 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 3: saying to his mother, I will never testify against him. 299 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 3: I'll take the blame for both of us. Okay, I 300 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 3: mean that that came out, that came out, I'll take 301 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: the blame for both of us. I will never turn 302 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 3: against him. He has to say that the only reason 303 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: that she has turned on me and has blamed me 304 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: for this is because she was looking at spending the 305 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 3: rest of her life in prison if she didn't get 306 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 3: up on the stand and lie and say I did this. 307 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: Yep, that makes total sense. And Alison, I have one 308 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: last question for you, because the other part of this 309 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: case are the detectives, or at least specifically one who 310 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: said and when it was peer reviewed at the University 311 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: of Alabama, they agreed that they from a digital forensic standpoint, 312 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: do not believe that Brendan and Juliana were behind the 313 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: fet life account. They don't believe that you can tie 314 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: it to them forensically, right. 315 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 3: So, and then there's also the thing about the knife 316 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 3: that didn't have Brandon's DNA on it. So yes, that's right, okay, 317 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: So how big is that going to be? It is 318 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 3: and that's not something you get through Brendan anyway. So 319 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 3: to answer both of your questions, TJ, you're not putting 320 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: them on for that. You're not putting them on for 321 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 3: those things, but you are going after I absolutely would 322 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 3: call those officers that said we didn't think there was enough, 323 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 3: we didn't think that it was them, and have them 324 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: walk through it to prove some reasonable doubt. I want 325 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 3: to say something about that that I found to be 326 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 3: really interesting, and that was, you know, it took a 327 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 3: long time. So you know, Juliana has charged October nineteenth, 328 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three, and then he's not charged till 329 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 3: September sixteenth, twenty twenty four. That's a long time that 330 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: goes by. And what changed there? What changed? I mean, 331 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 3: it took them a long time to arrest him. I would. 332 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 3: I would focus in on that, and I would tie 333 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 3: in that veteran law enforcement officers did not believe that 334 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 3: they were behind that account. Veteran law enforcement officers. It 335 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: took them, meant, it took him a really long time 336 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 3: to figure out a way to connect him to this murder. 337 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 3: That's what I would go after at the end of 338 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 3: the day, because I'm gonna finish. I'm gonna finish strong 339 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: here strong. I didn't love her on the stand, but 340 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 3: I believed her. 341 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be hard to imagine, just from a 342 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: logical standpoint, that this young Brazilian girl could come up 343 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: with all of this. And I guess the argument from 344 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: the defense is that the prosecution told her what to say. 345 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: But it does seem so far fetched that we all 346 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: know truth is stranger than fiction, and this is kind 347 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: of exactly a case in point. 348 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's where we are, is that this 349 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 3: is a crazy story we all should be watching obvious obviously, 350 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, take take sickly if I don't 351 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 3: know from work. But it's that good and I can't 352 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: wait to see how it turns out. 353 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's appointment television for us. For sure. 354 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: Alison. We love you girl, Thank you so much, We 355 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: appreciate you, We are obsessed as well. We know we'll 356 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 2: be talking to you again because there are several high 357 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: profile cases ongoing and coming up. Thank you, Allison. So 358 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 2: good to see you, my pleasure. 359 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 3: Nice to see the both of you.