WEBVTT - Michael Keiser, Jr. 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.680 Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:12.280 at zero Restriction. I'm actually out at Bandoned Dunes as 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:17.880 we speak. It's been beautiful weather, unbelievable high fifties, but 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.360 very cold mornings, and of course the wind's picking up 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:25.079 every once in a while. And I wouldn't be so 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.360 comfortable if I didn't have my brand new z r 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:34.320 Z two thousand jacket. It's a wind proof, waterproof, it's 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.720 the works. It's incredible. It's kept me really warm in 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.479 the morning. It kept me just incredibly comfortable. Comes in 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.200 all different types of colors. I would highly recommend going 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.040 to check it out at zero restriction dot com, especially 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.320 if you're in the market for new rain gear. It's 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.000 spring golf seasons upon us. Got to have a good 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:58.680 rain jacket and these things last forever. They're wonderful, wonderful jackets. 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.480 And if you use the code Frida Egg fifteen, you'll 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.800 get fifteen percent off your purchase. So go visit our 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:10.319 friends over at zero restriction dot com. Today I am 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.920 joined by Michael Kaiser Junior. This is an exciting conversation. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.880 Michael and I talk every once in a while on 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.840 the phone, and we always end up having really long, 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:27.559 interesting discussions about bevies of topics that you know, range 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.640 the depths of architecture to just random things. And I 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.400 always thought it would be just good to have a 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.640 conversation just like our phone conversation. So that's kind of 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.960 how I modeled this this interview with Michael, and I 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.160 hope you guys enjoy it. I miss a green, for example, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.679 I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.120 I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.200 Fried egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.560 Frida egg egg Frida egg bride egg. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.360 Lie, I'm about ready to run off with the hup. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.639 How how do you go tell us about how your 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.720 menu tasting when you're trying to figure out what food 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.640 to have at Sand Valley? How do you guys go 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:18.399 about critiquing? 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.360 And this is really hard work we're talking about here, Andy. 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.600 I mean, I got to sit in on one of 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:24.040 these and. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.080 Look, it starts with the pant choice you know you 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.520 need an elastic waste. It all starts, It all starts 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.919 with the pants. I like to wear sweatpants when I'm 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:35.240 doing them. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.440 Menu tasting, I remember I had to drive after it 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.959 and I was like, oh god, I'm really sleepy. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:46.000 When we were first interviewing chefs for Sand Valley, I 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.720 remember the first tasting I did was in Chicago and 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.840 three entrees came out. It was like there were three 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.200 big proteins, you know, two steaks and you know, pork 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.560 chops or something, and I was just hungry and it 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.280 was delicious, so I ate, you know, all three of 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.200 them in their entirety. So three enormous entrees. You know, 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.560 we had eight courses left, so that was an important lesson. Look, 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.600 we just eat the food and we try to get 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.000 you know, a broad perspective. You know, there's six or 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.840 eight people hopefully they're you know, representative of our guests. Uh, 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.160 and we all share, you know, what we like about them, 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:25.200 what we don't like about them, so that you know, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.400 that's that's the process. That's pretty simple. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.440 Do you ever regret, you know, how you think back 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.560 about an item and say, God, I wish we would 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.800 have have kept that. Remember that. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.680 No, No, we keep all the winners. You know, we 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.880 listen to our guests and we know what people like, 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.760 and we we I don't want to call them losers, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.640 but we drop the losers. We keep all the winners. 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.640 So every everything that's been dropped for our menu deserve 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.120 to be dropped in. The winners are still on our 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.160 port shank. We're not getting rid of our port shank. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.640 We're not getting rid of Grandma's meat loaf abandoned there. 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:02.160 They're losers. They deserve to be dropped. So when you 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.480 were in college, you and when you came out of college, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.760 you didn't go straight into golf. What were you doing? 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.880 No? I did go straight into golf. Yeah, for a year, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.000 and then I left it, So I moved. When I 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.400 was in college my jobs I worked at Bandon Dune's 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.200 I was. I started on the maintenance crew, which I loved, 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:28.000 but at four seventy three an hour, and then after taxes, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.760 I realized that the caddies, really, you know. 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:32.640 They're that's where where. 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.680 Money was, right. So I started caddying and really enjoyed 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.279 that and learned a lot from these you know, outstanding 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.880 professional caddies and got to really, you know, study the 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.919 golf courses and see how our guests reacted to the 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.800 golf courses, what they liked, you know what, what they 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.880 were frustrated with. So that was that was a really 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.280 incredible experience. But honestly, my favorite job was I was 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.720 a carpenter for several years, you know, a Union card 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:03.480 carrying frame in Chicago, and I loved, you know, building things. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.320 I love the people I worked with. I love the 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.279 culture of the company I worked at. So that's what 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:13.279 I did in in high school and college, golf and framing. 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.839 When I graduated from Santa Clara, I honestly had no 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.039 idea what I wanted to do. I was a major 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.480 in econ and Latin. I was a golfer. I had 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:28.960 spent three or four weeks each winter throughout college. We 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.000 were on the quarter system, so we had a big 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.560 winter break going down to Barn Google and spending time 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.720 with the settlers as they were developing their business. My 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.480 dad and I would go down. My sister came on 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:47.360 one of our trips, and then getting ah an extraordinary 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:52.040 education in the Sand Belt, playing playing these great golf courses, 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.760 and Michael Clayton, who you've had on your show, was 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.760 our our host through most of those. And there's nothing 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.960 better better than either walking or playing Oral Melbourne and 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:08.240 listening to Clay's talk about the architecture, and we were 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.520 joined by Jeff Ogilvie, you know several times, so to 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:16.400 hear them banter about you know that really really then 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.400 the minutia of the course and the big themes, right, 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.200 but all of it was, you know, I think that's 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.720 maybe when I got you know, the the I'd been 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.640 hooked on golf for a while, but that's when I 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.600 got the bug and the interest in golf course architecture. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.719 I had been privileged before them to play some great 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.880 golf courses, but I didn't necessarily know why they were great, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.280 and that got me curious, so that, you know, when 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.320 I went home, I started, you know, looking at golf 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.480 courses more closely and asking different questions and trying to 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.839 learn as much as I could. So I went down 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.240 there for three or four years. For a month, I 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.279 got to know the settlers, and having no idea what 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.760 I wanted to do, I called Richard Sattler and asked 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:06.080 him for a job. He figured, I guess because I'd 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.640 worked on golf courses and because of the relationship he 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.200 had with my dad, that I had more experience than 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.560 you know the other operations, you know, non manager employees, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.440 not much more experience. But so I went down there 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.840 and had an incredible year, worked round the clock all 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.120 day every day. It started with me and Greg Ramsey 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:29.920 in a single WAT trailer in the parking lot running 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:34.160 the operations. The settlers were running the operations, but we 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.040 were sort of down in the dirt, you know, taking 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.920 care of our guests and you know, gorilla and burgers 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.880 and brats and running the shop and selling right. So 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.480 if there were slow times, or if you didn't need 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:48.840 both of us, somebody would be in the back selling right, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.400 calling clubs in real Melbourne, just trying to get people 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.880 to bar and Google. And by the time hustle, we 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.520 were hustling, learned how to hustle, you know, well I 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.440 think had a sense of out a hustle. But yeah, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.800 we were hustling. It was fun. But what I what 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:08.680 I realized was I didn't love operations. I wasn't great 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.600 at operations. What I was drawn to was the development 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.080 work that Richard and Sally and then their kids were doing. 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.960 And I would spend as much time as I could 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:23.640 learning from Richard everything he knew. He and his wife 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:30.760 Sally are brilliant entrepreneurs. He had developed several hotels in Hobart. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.679 He grew up on a farm. He left his farm 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.840 to drive a truck, ended up buying the truck, then 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.679 the fleet from his boss cashed out, went into the 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.160 hotel business. He knew his guests, he knew what was 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.800 important what was not important. So then when he risked, 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.480 literally risked his farm. Actually I cut out a piece. 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.440 So he wanted his kids to grow up on a farm. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.160 He sold most of his hotel business, bought sixteen thousand 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.760 acres of mostly undeveloped land that he developed into a farm. 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.439 Almost lost it all when the world price of sheep crashed, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.720 had built it back up when Greg Ramsey came along 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.240 and tried to convince him to build a golf course, 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:15.520 which he ultimately did. I forget where I was going 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.840 with that. But he really knew development, he knew his customers. 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.000 He had never played golf in his life. He didn't 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.240 really know anything about He didn't know anything about golf 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.760 course architecture and very little about golf. But my dad 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.040 assured him that he would help with you know, work 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.559 with the architect and that everything. Richard, we had stayed 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.720 at his hotels. Everything that he was doing in Hobart 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.800 would be directly applicable to Barnbougle, and they were the 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.160 same guests. There are business travelers from Melbourne and Sydney, 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:50.040 and Richard totally gets it. So it was a perfect 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.400 translation and he hit the ground running. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:58.600 I imagine as a developer now, like you look at 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:04.199 I listened other sports podcasts, I read other stuff online, 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.480 and I see stuff in other publications. I'm like, oh, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.439 you know, I could tweak that and it would be 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.000 a pretty cool way to do something. And do you 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.959 feel the same way when you go anywhere, whether it's 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.720 even like a coffee shop or a restaurant or a hotel, 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.520 you can kind of kind of pick and choose the 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.920 little things that you like from places adapt them to yours. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.240 Yeah, that's what makes it so fun. Look going back 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.840 to as far back as I could remember, let's say 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.839 six years old, you know, a huge part of the 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.960 relationship I've had with my dad has been just observing 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:41.000 the businesses around us, right and asking a million questions. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:42.960 So you get into a taxi and my dad would 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.800 just start asking questions to the taxi driver and afterwards 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.880 we talk about what do we like about that particular 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.960 taxi and McDonald's. What are they doing well at this 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:56.080 location and poorly at that location. So our relationship has 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.880 from the start been based off of exactly what you 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.599 just asked about, right, So so it's a little and 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:03.400 he would test us, you know, we walk out of 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.760 a restaurant, you know, what would you change? Well? What 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.520 did they do really well? So that's that's just sort 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.520 of intuitive, and you know, it's it might be a 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.920 curse to the people around me, because it's like you 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.760 can't shut that off. Right, Everything you see is something 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.080 to learn from, either good or bad. But but what 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.920 makes working in the golf industry so fun is you're 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.680 just always you know, learning, and it's a it's a 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.600 good excuse to go see what the best do right. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:35.880 And every time if I'm lucky enough to go on 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.800 a vacation, either you know, with my wife or on 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.000 a buddy's trip, you know, I'm leaving you know, the 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.440 trip with one hundred notes and here's what they did really, 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.480 really well. Here's something that you know, as a customer, 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.600 I didn't like, and I wonder if we're doing something similar, 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.880 you know, let's look into that and try to improve it. 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:55.840 So it's it's yeah, it makes life really fun because 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.680 every day, you know, we're learning, you know, different different 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.239 things and taken awayfully best practices. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.560 So you so you're with Richard and working hustling at 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.679 bar and boogle for a year. Yeah, yeah, what did 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:10.400 you do after that? 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.600 So you know, I guess my takeaway was I wanted 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.280 to be a Richard Sailor, wanted to develop, and I 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.800 realized I really wanted to develop golf courses. I talked 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.200 to my dad about it. He was a golf course 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.000 developer you know by then, and his advice was, go 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.520 out and learn the technical skills to develop right, and 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.520 it doesn't have to be a golf there'll be applicable 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.560 to golf. If you come work for me, you know, 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.840 you'll never really have the confidence to know if you 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.920 deserve to be on the team or not. You'll always 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.720 be my Kaiser's son. So go out and figure out 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.960 what you like developing and gain some confidence and success, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.080 and then over time, if there's a good opportunity for 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:50.880 us to work together, then we'll do it. But but 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.320 if not, you'll be you know, happy. He knew I 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.280 loved building. I love creating and imagining. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.800 Well in that carpenter you know, building stuff. Yeah, like 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:02.000 I mean, that's that's neat. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.360 It was really neat and good growing up building forts 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.160 at the Dunes Club before as a golf course. Just 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.880 always building forts, always building trails with my dad, always 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.720 planting trees with my dad. So I went back to 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.080 Chicago interviewed. You know, it's a great time to be 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.640 working for a developer. I returned in two thousand and 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:26.720 four and got to know some great companies, got a 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:31.080 lot of great advice from people, and I could talk 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:32.880 for hours about you know, some of that advice, but 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.719 really got lucky. I was lucky in the sense that 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.959 I was introduced to Dan Lucas and Mike Dreu, who 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.840 are the partners and founders of Structured Development. And I 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.880 give myself credit in taking that job. It was the 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.640 salary was the lowest offer I received, but it was 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.240 so clear that these are guys I wanted to learn from. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:57.640 They were so smart, and they worked so hard, and 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.120 they're doing really cool projects right some other jobs that 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.679 I just I saw a ceiling, not just salary, but 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.680 in terms of what I could learn and it was 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.360 clear that their culture, you know, there was no ceiling. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.480 You know, there's there's nothing below you and there's nothing 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.480 above you. So you know, I would say outside of 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.880 my dad, Richard Saler was my first mentor that I 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.920 you know, I think about lessons from him, you know, 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.160 all the time. And and Dan Lucas and Mike Drew 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.080 was really lucky. It took a while to get their attention, 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.200 even though it was a small company. I had no 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.520 idea what I was doing when they hired me, and 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.120 wasn't worth the small salary they were paying me, right, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:40.600 I mean, But eventually got their attention and just had 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.720 a blast, you know, working working for them. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.440 I think it's always like when you switch careers, you 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.240 I think it's so funny how you just become like expert, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.040 an expert in these weird things like you'd never envision 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.120 when you're growing up or you're in college, or like, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.400 you know, I took a job in trucking like all 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.520 of a sudden, I know, like freight prices from Chicago 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.720 to Atlanta, and it's like, what we Why do I have 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.080 this information that's going to forever be stored in my mind? Yeah? Yeah, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.240 And it's like you just you go into these things. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.200 You take a job and you know nothing, and your 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.120 job essentially is like you learn it on the fly. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.640 Oh yeah, a lot in a lot of places, especially 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.800 with what you're describing. It's almost more like a startup 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.600 culture at that development shop, because there was it was 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.000 very flat and you could see where you could go up. 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.680 Yeah. Yeah, and every project was a startup. So we 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.600 would do these big mixed use projects in Chicago and 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.400 everyone was a new startup. You have to, you know, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.120 you have to be just like in the golf business, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.800 you can't just be successful and hang up your hat, right, 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.800 you have to earn it all over again with each 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.320 resort and within it resort. You have to do it 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 day in and day out, and you're in and year out. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.600 So yeah, I've always admired people who, uh, I don't 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.440 know if they get bored or just wanted a new challenge, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.720 but totally change careers and just start from scratch. And 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.440 some people just do it every every fifteen or twenty years, 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.320 even when they're you know, they've achieved great success. And 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.880 my dad's one of those people. Right. He was a 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.560 greeting card publisher and then and then the next day 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.120 he was a golf course developer. You know, that's crazy, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.240 and people, you know, might think that he didn't know 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.760 anything about I mean, he wasn't a developer, but he 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:32.040 was a curious person and he'd observed retail golfers and restaurants, 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.440 and you know it gets a lot of credit for golf, 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.360 but maybe not enough for the hospitality side, on the 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.000 service side, which is you know, he really. 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.120 That's a big good job, a big part of resource 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.360 almost probably a bigger part of than the golf courses. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.120 It's all important. We got to nail it at all, 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.960 you know, it's all got to be it's all going 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:53.400 to be good. 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:58.600 So you're doing these mixed use properties. What would you say, 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.720 did are there any light bulb moments where you're like, 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.920 oh wow, this this if we do this in golf 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.199 it would be or what was the biggest basis that 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:11.760 you learned from that experience? 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.600 I just learned the confidence that you just figured out. 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.000 You have no idea what you're doing, but you're you're 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.760 charged with accomplishing something. You just figured it out, and 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.399 a lot of people don't have that confidence, and you 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:27.280 just have to be relentless and grind and and figured out. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.840 I aftually had a lot of support at that that company, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.120 and I wasn't figuring out you know, the big brilliant 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.959 ideas that the partners were, but you know, starting with 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.239 the smallest projects and tasks I was given, going all 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.040 the way up to the top. It was just the 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.439 confidence of you know, I was in my early twenties, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:49.840 mid twenties, late twenties managing a dynamic team right of engineers, lawyers, 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:54.199 you know, brokers, finance, you know people in finance. You 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.240 know you have clients, most of mine, we're medical office 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.760 spaces that you're working for. You know, it's a dynamic 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.000 team and managing them toward an outcome in our case 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.840 building or my case within the company, you know, delivering 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.760 these medical office suites and then retail, and we did 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.080 some I did some industrial and some school. So that 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.240 was what I learned, was the confidence that you could 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.360 just figure it all out. You know, with your analogy 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.800 with trucking, you know, I think you have the confidence 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.399 that you might not know anything about trucking, but you 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.800 could just figure it out, just ask a million questions 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.840 and bug people with questions. You just keep asking the 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.639 right questions and you'll get there. So the AHA moment 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.760 was when I finally had the confidence to say, Okay, 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:39.879 I think I could do this on a smaller scale 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.800 on my own. And then and then I left to 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.280 do that, to do really small developments, but their mind 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.040 and right, and it was it was the confidence to 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.920 do that and then being successful doing that that gave confidence. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.520 So then when I ultimately went to work with my dad, 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.520 starting out with band in Muni, I had some confidence 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.200 that I didn't know everything about golf course development, but 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.760 I think I could figure out. And I was surrounded 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.040 by so many brilliant people. If I could ask the 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.159 right questions, I think I could lead them toward, you know, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.000 a vision that might be successful. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.200 Talk about Bandon Muni. That project. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:20.399 It's heartbreaking because it never got off the ground for 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.480 political reasons. But let's just you know, focusing on the 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.560 concept and then the architecture. My dad wanted to build. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.000 It was really he wanted to give back to the 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.320 local community. So the idea was, you know, if Andy 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.360 Johnson came from Chicago, you'd pay you know, full retail, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.120 but locals would pay twenty dollars. And if you took 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.560 a junior Cady'd pay ten, so would be a local 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.479 municipal golf course. There's twenty seven holes. You know, locals 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.800 with tee off on one and resort guests with tee 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.399 off at ten. Twenty seven holes, you could double the 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.520 number of rounds on. The land was phenomenal. It was 0:19:55.600 --> 0:20:00.119 really dooony. You know, there are dunes at Bandon, but 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:04.679 then there's you know, there's different there's different landforms throughout Bandon. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.960 You know the trails you go into the woods and 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.080 out on you know sixteenth of Bandon, it's this really 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.320 hard packed sand. Uh. This was pure sand dunes, right, 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:16.280 pure link sand dunes. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.800 So more more along the lines of like a Scotland sands. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.080 Yeah yeah, yes, yes, Scottish or maybe even more Irish. 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.720 Big yeah, I mean it was that you know, most 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.399 dunes have this like push up you know this front. 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.800 Bandon has front. You know, once you go over that ridge, 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.320 then it's flat forest. And when you look around the 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.480 world at dunes, it's you know, the sands getting pushed 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.560 onto the beach then blown from the beach onto you 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.879 know generally within let's say a mile of the beach, 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.040 you know, a high high ridge. So this This had 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.159 this high dune ridge after which it dropped off. It 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.720 was pretty flat, but it was about a mile from 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:02.919 the ocean. So beautiful, pure sand site, gorgeous dunes. You know. 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.440 Gil Hans was hired to be the architect. 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.640 And what year was it, Well, I don't. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.720 Remember, twenty ten eleven, I mean then ten eleven. I 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.600 went from that to San Valley, so Sand Valley so 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.119 started twenty thirteen, so let's say ten eleven twelve, and 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.560 I was doing I was also working on real estate 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.639 that we have an organ outside of the resort, you know, 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.639 whether it's residential or we've logging properties or differ different property. 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.840 But Gill's routing was just fabulous. It was it was 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.600 twenty seven holes that all worked together. Every hole was different. 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:44.960 It was outstanding. It was one of the best routings 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.280 on some of the best piece of ground I've ever seen. 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.520 And unfortunately it was never built. There was an issue 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.880 with the Bureau of Land Management that kept us from 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:57.000 being able to trade for the land. So it wasn't built. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.800 And that happens a lot for in the industry and 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.600 for us. You know, if the public sees one resort, 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.119 of course that gets developed. There are many that don't 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.880