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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: It was an interesting weekend. Yeah, do you know stand

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Speaker 2: clear of the closing doors?

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Speaker 3: Please? Do you know that line? That's right?

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 5: I do know that there were a couple policy things

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Speaker 5: that have happened over the last week.

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Speaker 4: I'd like to stand clear of it.

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Speaker 3: Fine.

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Speaker 5: You know, we're following Venezuela and we've got another tanker,

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Speaker 5: maybe on the run, maybe it's empty.

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Speaker 4: We're not quite sure what the rules are there.

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Speaker 5: And Rubio was asked about this at his press conference

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Speaker 5: on Friday.

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Speaker 4: We were just talking about, right, where does this policy go?

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Speaker 5: What I'm trying to figure out is what the administration

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Speaker 5: really wants from Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: Well, it goes to a third tanker.

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Speaker 2: Apparently we got we nailed the second tanker over the weekend,

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Speaker 2: and then found a third that we're now chasing out

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Speaker 2: of the Caribbean. They turned tail and ran and I

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Speaker 2: guess we've got eyes on this empty tanker right now

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Speaker 2: that may or may not be pursuing property of the

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Speaker 2: new US Shadow Fleet.

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Speaker 3: Nick Watams is with us to talk about this.

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Speaker 2: Listen to what the Secretary of State said, as Christina

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Speaker 2: is referring here's Marco Rubio.

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Speaker 6: It is clear that.

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Speaker 7: The current status quote with the Venezuelan regime is intolerable

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Speaker 7: for the United States. The status quote that they operate

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Speaker 7: and cooperate with terrorist organizations against the national.

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Speaker 6: Interests of the United States.

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Speaker 7: Not just cooperate, but partner with and participate in activities

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Speaker 7: to threat in the national interest in.

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Speaker 6: The United States.

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Speaker 7: So yes, our goal is to change that dynamic, and

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Speaker 7: that's why the President's doing what he's doing.

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Speaker 5: With us as Nick Watams, Nick, your official title is

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg US National Security Team Lead, but you and I

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Speaker 5: have worked together forever, and when we used to work

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Speaker 5: for different nowarks in the State Department, I just referred

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Speaker 5: to you as guys whose office I would run into

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Speaker 5: when I didn't know what was going.

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Speaker 3: On and had questions to ask. So still, yeah, so

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Speaker 3: I got some more.

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Speaker 4: Questions, Nick, what's going on here?

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Speaker 5: Because for a long time, anything that hinted of regime

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Speaker 5: change or was regime change adjacent? Was verbiage that people

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Speaker 5: at the state's department diplomats the Americans really didn't want

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Speaker 5: to say, where's.

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Speaker 4: That ball moved?

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Speaker 8: Well, I mean your question at the very beginning of

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Speaker 8: this what's going on in Venezuela is still something we're

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Speaker 8: all actually trying to figure out. I mean, the administration

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Speaker 8: has moved very clearly. You had Christy know Him today

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Speaker 8: saying on Fox Maduro has got to go. So they

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Speaker 8: have been very explicit that they see Maduro as an

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Speaker 8: obstacle to Venezuela's future. Rubio and his press conference was

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Speaker 8: very evasive on this issue, saying, you know, the situation

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Speaker 8: is intolerable, but not openly advocating for regime change. Christy

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Speaker 8: Knowam takes it a step forward today, But we still

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Speaker 8: don't really know the full strategy. So they're putting this

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Speaker 8: pressure on these tankers, they're launching strikes on alleged narco

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Speaker 8: traffickers coming from in the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific.

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Speaker 8: But what is that strategy moving toward is an anti

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Speaker 8: drug effort, is a desire to boost Maduro from power?

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Speaker 8: The administration has not said how it wants to get

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Speaker 8: from point A to point B. What we do know

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Speaker 8: though now is going back to one of the terms

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Speaker 8: that was famous from the time we worked together at

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Speaker 8: the State Department, maximum pressure, and that really.

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Speaker 2: Seems to be what it's about. We're showing some images

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Speaker 2: right now of just that. There's a wealth of videotape

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Speaker 2: that's coming out of the Caribbean of US boarding tankers

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Speaker 2: blowing up alleged drug boats. Nick, let's focus on the

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Speaker 2: tankers for a minute, because this third one kind of

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Speaker 2: runs against the grain of the narrative last week and

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Speaker 2: that we were pursuing sanctioned tankers. This one may be

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Speaker 2: under a false flag, but is not on the list

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Speaker 2: of sanctioned tankers.

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Speaker 3: Can we legally take this thing? Well?

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Speaker 8: I mean, this is the question we are all trying

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Speaker 8: to figure out because this administration has been so aggressive

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Speaker 8: and pushing the bounds of what is legal and what's

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Speaker 8: not and what we would consider to have been totally

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Speaker 8: unacceptable in a previous administration. What they're saying on this

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Speaker 8: one is maybe it's not about the tanker, but it's

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Speaker 8: about the oil. So we have so many sanctions on Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: We can't get you.

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Speaker 8: On the tanker the name of the tanker at being

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Speaker 8: on some Treasury Department list, but we know it's cargo

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Speaker 8: is essentially something that Venezuela should not be allowed.

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Speaker 3: To trade in.

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Speaker 8: So we're going to go after it on those grounds.

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Speaker 8: So many questions here about the legal boundaries and whether

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Speaker 8: a reason like that would hold up in a quart

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Speaker 8: of law. But what you see from this administration is

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Speaker 8: they don't care. They're doing it, and you know, a

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Speaker 8: real big question on where things go from there.

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Speaker 5: The other question I had is there are still legal

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Speaker 5: oil tankers coming out of Venezuela. I mean I was

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Speaker 5: reading up today a fifth of Venezuela and oil is

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Speaker 5: still processed in the United States. Chevron is still operating

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Speaker 5: there in partnership with Pitaves and a lot of places.

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Speaker 4: Is there a risk to.

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Speaker 5: Those tankers if you were that company, would you want

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Speaker 5: to put that oil on the.

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Speaker 4: Water right now?

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Speaker 8: Well, you have seen a lot of shippers just turning

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Speaker 8: their tankers around because they don't want to face those risks.

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Speaker 8: I mean, it is a sort of fascinating dynamic about

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Speaker 8: this that, yes, Chevron does have a general license that

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Speaker 8: basically gives it not carte blanche, but they are allowed

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Speaker 8: to do business because they have had over the years

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Speaker 8: a lot of operations in Venezuela. And as you say,

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Speaker 8: Venezuela and oil is really sour, it's really sludgy. It

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Speaker 8: needs to be it's hard to process, it needs to

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Speaker 8: be refined. And the place where that has traditionally happened

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Speaker 8: is in the US. So they have kept that channel

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Speaker 8: open through a series of licenses. So it's expected that

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Speaker 8: those tankers would be allowed to pass through this quarantine.

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Speaker 8: They're calling it a quarantine, not a blockade, because a

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Speaker 8: blockade is an active war. But what we are seeing

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Speaker 8: is that a lot of those other tankers are just

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Speaker 8: turning around or not willing.

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Speaker 9: To risk it.

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Speaker 2: I guess we take all these tankers to Greenland once

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Speaker 2: we get them all together. Because he's not letting go

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Speaker 2: of the bit on Greenland. No, Nick, the President said

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Speaker 2: last evening, he's naming Jeff Landry, the governor of Louisiana,

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Speaker 2: who's not from Greenland, to be his special envoy in

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Speaker 2: this case because Landry quote understands how essential Greenland is

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Speaker 2: to our national security. Presumably Governor Landry read this on truth,

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Speaker 2: social and then issued his own statement saying, this in

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Speaker 2: no way affects my position as governor of Louisiana.

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Speaker 3: Right, are we playing around here?

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Speaker 2: Is this just something to distract us from another thing?

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Speaker 2: Or are we actually going to annex Greenland as.

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Speaker 8: Something you know, I don't really believe very often in

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Speaker 8: the distract us from another thing narrative on a lot

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Speaker 8: of these. I think what you're seeing though, is an administration.

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Speaker 8: You know, when Trump came back into office, there was

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Speaker 8: a lot of talk about Greenland. It was really in

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Speaker 8: the news attention with Denmark jd Vance went there Junior.

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Speaker 8: Then it kind of faded away and we all thought

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Speaker 8: and a lot of Republicans who were very uneasy with

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Speaker 8: the President's desire to annex Greenland and Panama Canal were

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Speaker 8: I think, sort of relieved that.

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Speaker 3: This had faded from the headlines.

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Speaker 8: But what we're seeing here really is an indication that

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Speaker 8: President Trump has not forgotten about Greenland. He wants Greenland,

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Speaker 8: and he is going to keep pressuring this issue. So

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Speaker 8: where this decision came from it particular moment, we haven't

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Speaker 8: figured it out yet, But what you can be sure

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Speaker 8: of is that despite the unease, the feeling of queasiness

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Speaker 8: among Republicans about this. The President has not forgotten is

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Speaker 8: going to keep pushing this issue.

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Speaker 5: So I was actually in Greenland not too long ago,

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Speaker 5: and they have this There is a new for breaking news.

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Speaker 5: There's a new direct flight from Newark. You can fly

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Speaker 5: four hours to Greenland.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing.

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Speaker 5: So they're getting the first batch of American tourists. And

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Speaker 5: they told me, first of all, the first couple of

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Speaker 5: planes did have a lot of maga folks who came

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Speaker 5: off the plane with red hats, and we're walking around

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Speaker 5: looking like they were picking out places to live. So

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Speaker 5: now when you walk downtown in Greenland, they have shirts

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Speaker 5: that essentially say Greenland for Greenlanders.

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Speaker 4: And a lot of like anti Trump.

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Speaker 3: Totally sure.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, But the irony is they said they would have

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Speaker 5: liked the economic interest from the US, just maybe not

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Speaker 5: at this level of right.

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Speaker 8: I think the level of intensity has made a lot

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Speaker 8: of people very uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: The EU weighed in on this, by the way, saying

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Speaker 2: that it stands in full solidarity with Denmark and Greenland.

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Speaker 3: So add this to the list of conversation.

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Speaker 8: Right, and what Landry will do as the envoy is

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Speaker 8: very much unclear. We've seen the President propose a lot

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Speaker 8: of these envoys in the past, and then their job

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Speaker 8: description is very unclear, so a lot of questions.

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Speaker 2: The governor will never buy a drink in Greenland, I

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Speaker 2: can assume right now if he's confirmed. I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's a confirmable position. Nick, Thank you so much. Great

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Speaker 2: to see Nick Wadams and start things off here in

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Speaker 2: the national security space. Stay with us on Balance of Power.

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Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Predicting the direction of crypto has left many people broke.

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Speaker 2: Nathan Dean, of course, talks crypto with US way of regulation,

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Speaker 2: along with all the issues that are percolating here in Washington.

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Speaker 2: Christina Raffini, this is the man we talked to when

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Speaker 2: we want to know what the folks outside of the

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Speaker 2: studio are thinking, particularly terminal users, and right now, one

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Speaker 2: of the big question questions, is we'll be able to

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Speaker 2: fund the government when lawmakers come back, or are we

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Speaker 2: going to do this whole thing countdown to shut down

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Speaker 2: again to the end of January.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's not just a question for terminal users.

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Speaker 4: That's a terminal question for anyone in Washington.

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Speaker 3: See what you did? Oh, I got that.

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Speaker 4: You know, I got to keep up with you guys.

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Speaker 3: It's perpetual for sure.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Nathan, of course does this for a

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Speaker 2: living as our senior US policy analyst known to some

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Speaker 2: as America's Dad.

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Speaker 3: Did you win at flag football?

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Speaker 10: We lost in a two point last second two point conversion,

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Speaker 10: but everybody got two donuts afterwards, so they were I

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Speaker 10: was going to say.

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Speaker 4: Nathan, do you want him calling you America's dad?

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Speaker 3: On board? One hundred percent? Absolutely, I mean.

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Speaker 5: You were just talking to us about taking your kids

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Speaker 5: to Disney World. So it does vaguely accurate, but all right,

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Speaker 5: you know, I got to run with it.

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Speaker 2: This got to is that called like the Japan theory

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Speaker 2: or something. Nathan is uncovered a theory and has proven

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Speaker 2: it that it's actually cheaper to take your kids to

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Speaker 2: Disney Tokyo than it is to Disney Orlando.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, there was a meme and then we're going to

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Speaker 10: Disney in Florida. So I was like, you know, let's

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Speaker 10: compare contrast.

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Speaker 3: And I find that a boom There is a Bloomberg.

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Speaker 10: Piece to this, though the Japanese yen did play into

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Speaker 10: a part of that.

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Speaker 3: This is a currency.

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Speaker 10: I think they had the end actually been a little

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Speaker 10: bit stronger than it would have been closer to even

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Speaker 10: but you know, I had my monitor up and was

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Speaker 10: looking at that.

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Speaker 2: Now people are going to start calling you about this

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Speaker 2: to get the plan because now they know they've got

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Speaker 2: his number already. Everyone's going to come back after New

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Speaker 2: Year's and be reminded that we just went over a cliff,

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Speaker 2: a healthcare cliff, and there's no plan to fund the

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Speaker 2: government past the end of January. Although I read that

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Speaker 2: there was very quietly over the weekend an important moment

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Speaker 2: when the two approaches shares got together and carved out

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Speaker 2: top lines. Is there a chance that grown ups actually

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Speaker 2: engage when Congress comes back to DC.

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Speaker 10: Let's the over under on a shutdown, we think, so

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Speaker 10: we're at a thirty percent chance of a shutdown, and

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Speaker 10: we're pretty low on that because look, it's twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 10: It's an election year. Neither party wants a shutdown in

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Speaker 10: an election year. From the Republican perspective, they got largely

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Speaker 10: the blame amongst independence for this past shutdown, and.

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Speaker 6: So obviously they don't want to rock the boat there.

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Speaker 10: And from the Democratic perspective, they had big wins of Virginia,

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Speaker 10: New Jersey, Miami, New York City. They don't want to

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Speaker 10: rock the boat there, and so it's easiest thing to do.

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Speaker 10: As you both know from being in this city for

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Speaker 10: a long time, the best thing for Congress to do in.

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Speaker 6: The situation is to kick the can.

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Speaker 10: They'll kick the can again in the situation, and I

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Speaker 10: don't think there's a shutdown.

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Speaker 5: As we come up on the new year and many

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Speaker 5: of us will be sitting at home, possibly hungover. I

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Speaker 5: was talking to you earlier about the Epstein hangover for

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Speaker 5: the new year and what the.

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Speaker 4: Repercussions of all of that will be.

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Speaker 5: If it's going to resurface, if you think it's going

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Speaker 5: to stay with us, how do you think that's going

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Speaker 5: to impact Congress's ability to get things done?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean what we've told our clients is that

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Speaker 10: you know, the Epstein case in particular, is really no

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Speaker 10: investing angle to it that we don't cover all that much.

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Speaker 10: But for every day they talk about Epstein in January,

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Speaker 10: is not a day that President Trump's talking about affordability.

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Speaker 10: If you go back to a speech from last week,

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Speaker 10: it was all about trying to reset the narrative for

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Speaker 10: next year's elections, to try and get this back out

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Speaker 10: of affordability. And you know, for everything that we're seeing

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Speaker 10: in terms of the Epstein, you know issue, it's going

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Speaker 10: to return back. But for January, really the big things

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Speaker 10: for us is the shutdown, which we are at a

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Speaker 10: thirty percent chance, and we also think the Supreme Court's

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Speaker 10: going to come back and deny President Trump's AEPA tariffs.

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Speaker 6: Whoa, which is something that we're just waiting for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so I guess we bury the lead because

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Speaker 2: no one's going to care about a shutdown or a

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Speaker 2: cr if that happens. I think the words that Kevin

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Speaker 2: Hassett used on CBS Face the Nation yesterday was we

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Speaker 2: will have a major administrative problem if they're ordered to

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Speaker 2: refund that money. You're saying it's going to happen. Is

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Speaker 2: the refund necessarily part of a settlement.

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Speaker 10: So we're at a sixty percent chance that the Supreme

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Speaker 10: Court's going to come back and say that these are unlawful,

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Speaker 10: so we'll fall off on the Trade Court, in the

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Speaker 10: Appeals court, a little bit more discussion amongst our even

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Speaker 10: and our internal team about whether or not the refunds

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Speaker 10: will be a portion of it. Now, Bloomberg News is

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Speaker 10: called this refund chaos, and I love that word because,

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Speaker 10: to the best of our knowledge, there's really no way

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Speaker 10: that a company can say and say, give me five

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Speaker 10: hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 3: I've got a receipts.

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Speaker 10: It's got to be piecemeal, you know, individual line items.

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Speaker 10: And also we can't figure out that there's a way

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Speaker 10: that there's actually an electronic wire here.

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Speaker 6: We're talking about paper checks.

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Speaker 10: So refund chaos is something that companies should just be

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Speaker 10: prepared for over the next.

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Speaker 6: Couple of quarters, account of years.

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Speaker 10: But the bigger question is is that will the Trump

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Speaker 10: administration say, look, okay, we can't do IEEP anymore. Let's

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Speaker 10: go back to section two thirty two or section three

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Speaker 10: oh one if you don't know what I'm talking about. Essentially,

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Speaker 10: investigations take time, takes three, four or five six months,

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Speaker 10: so it'll be easy for the White House to come

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Speaker 10: back and say, okay, we're going to now and launch

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Speaker 10: an investigation.

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Speaker 6: But the question is, and we're putting this in.

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Speaker 10: One of our black Swan categories, is that will the

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Speaker 10: Trump administration say, okay, we've launched this investigation, and now

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Speaker 10: we're going to reapply tariffs, say in June, July, August,

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Speaker 10: months right before the midterm cycle. Therefore prices will go

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Speaker 10: back up again.

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Speaker 6: We're not exactly sure.

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Speaker 5: That's a hard place for the administration to be because

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Speaker 5: on principle, if they lose, especially if they lose in

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Speaker 5: this court, which has been very generous to them, they've

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Speaker 5: got an optics problem. But they've also got an optics problem.

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Speaker 5: They're raising prices right before an elections that could be

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Speaker 5: tough for them.

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Speaker 10: And not to mention trade deals that are essentially deals

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Speaker 10: just on pieces of paper, they haven't been ratified or

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Speaker 10: anything like that.

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Speaker 6: So then you get a geopolitical question here.

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Speaker 10: So you know, the main message that we've been telling

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Speaker 10: to our clients about twenty twenty six is that forget Congress.

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Speaker 10: I hate saying that because I love Congress, but you know,

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Speaker 10: every day they're here in Washington next year. Their component

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Speaker 10: is campaigning against them back home. They don't want to

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Speaker 10: be here. So twenty twenty six is a story about deregulation.

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Speaker 10: Because the regulators live here, They've got to do something,

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Speaker 10: and it's about these tariffs. The question from the White

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Speaker 10: House sas is that are they going to reinstitute these

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Speaker 10: tariffs if the Supreme Court deems them unlawful like we

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Speaker 10: think so, or are they going to have a political

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Speaker 10: question of are we going to institute our sorry policy

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Speaker 10: that's unpopular with the American populace just months before.

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Speaker 2: The elections, you talk around the kids like that black

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Speaker 2: Swan event. Second half of the year. Now Congress doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: This is a whole different side of Nathan Dean that said,

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Speaker 2: could we have a full year cr so Congress really

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter?

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Speaker 6: I don't think so.

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Speaker 10: I think I think the appropriators look, they want to

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Speaker 10: get stuff done.

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Speaker 6: I mean, they want to be relevant here.

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Speaker 10: I mean, if there's one thing that we've seen over

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Speaker 10: since President Trump has taken office is that the White

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Speaker 10: House has really tried to claw back some of the

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Speaker 10: authority on appropriations to the detriment of Congress. And I

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Speaker 10: think both parties want to be able to say no,

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Speaker 10: we Congress, we are the appropriators. Let's get this back

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Speaker 10: into our ball side of the court. You know, I

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Speaker 10: wouldn't rule out a short term cr maybe did March,

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Speaker 10: but I think, you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 10: I think both parties want to get something done to

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Speaker 10: just least get us through the rest of the fiscal year.

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Speaker 4: And look at ahead.

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Speaker 5: We were mentioning deregulation and passing what are your deregulation

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Speaker 5: greatest hits you see coming up next year?

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Speaker 10: So obviously the banking industry I think is the biggest one.

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Speaker 10: You know, the banks have been writing a lot of

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Speaker 10: sentiment since the election on deregulation.

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Speaker 6: Now it's actually happening.

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Speaker 10: We had a proposal that was finalized right before Thanksgiving

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Speaker 10: that's going to return about thirteen billion dollars in capital

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Speaker 10: to the big banks. There's two more proposals that are

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Speaker 10: coming out the first half of next year, maybe probably

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Speaker 10: in the first quarter. We estimate back in the Napkin

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Speaker 10: math that you're going to be around sixty billion dollars

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Speaker 10: in return capital to the Bank Americas and the JP

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Speaker 10: Morgan's of the world. Cryptocurrency, even though there's this debate

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Speaker 10: in Congress about a crypto bill. The regulators are still

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Speaker 10: moving forward. The FDIIC just launched its new proposal on

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Speaker 10: stable coin implementation. There's probably another one on that and

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Speaker 10: will lead to a higher institutional usage. And just like

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Speaker 10: JP Morgan announced this morning that they're thinking about getting

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Speaker 10: into institutionalized crypto. The combination of regulation plus Congress next

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Speaker 10: year on crypto is essentially creating this regulatory framework that

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Speaker 10: just both banks and non banks are going to want

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Speaker 10: to play in.

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Speaker 2: You know, you start talking about the next steps here

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Speaker 2: in Congress. Jody Arrington was speaking very confidently on the

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Speaker 2: program last week about another reconcilly plan. If Congress is

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Speaker 2: going to be that ineffective next year, is that even possible?

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Speaker 2: He thought that, even flagged that as a potential to

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Speaker 2: solve the healthcare standoff.

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Speaker 10: Oh, I mean Senator Lindsay Graham over the weekend and

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Speaker 10: said we're going to go for it on healthcare.

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Speaker 6: But I go back to the question one game. If

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Speaker 6: it was.

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Speaker 10: Easy, they would have already done it, you know, in

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Speaker 10: reconciliation one point zero.

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Speaker 6: And I'm not saying they can't.

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Speaker 10: I'm just saying is that, you know, we have to

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Speaker 10: look at the scope of what this reconciliation bill would

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Speaker 10: look like. There's also been talk about potentially giving President

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Speaker 10: Trump AIPA authority through this reconciliation bill, through a two

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Speaker 10: thousand dollars check. You know, there's a lot of different

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Speaker 10: ideas that are flowing around right now. Back in early

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Speaker 10: twenty twenty five, they call this two big two beautiful.

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Speaker 10: I'm not sure if they're still sticking with that, but

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Speaker 10: I will say.

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Speaker 3: Congress could give him a EPA authority.

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Speaker 6: That's you know, that's one of the things works.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's the parliamentary I'm going to do with that.

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Speaker 6: Well, that's it.

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Speaker 10: You know, there's been discussions about if the Supreme Court

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Speaker 10: doesn't give you AEPA theority authority. Congress is largely delegated

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Speaker 10: TERIF authority to the president. They didn't claw that back,

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Speaker 10: and so Congress sort of say, look, we will give

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Speaker 10: this authority to you all, subject to the parliamentary emplots.

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Speaker 10: So you know, but what we're saying to our clients

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Speaker 10: is is that lots of headlines are going to be

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Speaker 10: floating around every lobbyist, every lawmaker is going to.

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Speaker 6: Say, hey, what if we can do this?

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Speaker 10: What if we can do that, But then ultimately they're

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Speaker 10: going to be hit with the idea that there's an

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Speaker 10: extremely thin margin in the House. If it was easy,

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Speaker 10: they would have already done it. So we're either saying

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Speaker 10: no reconciliation bill or very very small scoped reconciliation bill

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Speaker 10: with determined issues to be determined.

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Speaker 5: What are the major stumbling blocks still on healthcare? Because

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Speaker 5: you are starting to hear some of the same things

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Speaker 5: on the right and the left.

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Speaker 4: They just don't seem to be able to get it

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Speaker 4: together on so many levels.

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Speaker 5: But are any of them surmountable or to your point,

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Speaker 5: do you think this is just going to be an

444
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Speaker 5: enduring battle that we have all the way down to

445
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:45,440
Speaker 5: the midterms.

446
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 6: So there's two issues.

447
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 10: And when you have the subsidies argument, now the subsids argument,

448
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 10: it's essentially people get subsidies right now, and then subsidies

449
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,400
Speaker 10: are going to go away. Premiums you know, we've had anecdotally,

450
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,360
Speaker 10: you know, one thousand dollars in premiums going up.

451
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 6: To four thousand.

452
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 10: That's not easy for some to come in and say, look,

453
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,520
Speaker 10: we support that as a policy, which is why a

454
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 10: lot of these moderate Republicans have been trying to use

455
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 10: discharge petitions.

456
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 6: To get that through.

457
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 10: The second one is just the replacement on trying to

458
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 10: get Obamacare, or at least from the Republican angle, trying

459
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 10: to shift us a little bit more into the private sector.

460
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,439
Speaker 10: But again, you're playing with something that people actually see

461
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 10: day in and day out, and so it's extremely difficult

462
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 10: to get that done, especially in an election year, especially

463
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 10: just months before the midterms, when a lot of the

464
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 10: politicians are going to say no, no, let's try and

465
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 10: kick the can on this.

466
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 6: We just want to not rock the vote.

467
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 3: You've got a podcast up today.

468
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 6: Not this week. We're till twenty twenty six.

469
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 2: Off till twenty twenty six, so don't be disappointed. But

470
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: you'll hear them on this podcast, which is why things

471
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 2: all come together on a Monday. Nathan Dean, many thanks

472
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: as always. If they get.

473
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 3: Donuts when they lose, what do they get when they win?

474
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 2: We're doing its really. I thought you were going to

475
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 2: say Ribb's something. It's Youricago boy. Thank you, Nathan as always.

476
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas. This is Blueberg. Stay with us on Balance

477
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 2: of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

478
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

479
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

480
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: Almalcarchlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen

481
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us

482
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,400
Speaker 1: live on YouTube.

483
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 2: President, of course, has done a lot of talking about

484
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 2: AI when it comes specifically to regulations, the competition between

485
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: national or federal regulations and state REGs, as well the

486
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 2: need for clean, uninterruptible power. This is something that we

487
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 2: have heard about quite a bit from the President of

488
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 2: the United States, in this case back in August.

489
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 11: Listen because of the genius and creativity of Silicon Valley,

490
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,719
Speaker 11: and it is incredible, incredible genius, without question, the most

491
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 11: brilliant place anywhere on Earth.

492
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 6: America is the country.

493
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 11: That started the AI race, and as President of the

494
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 11: United States, I'm here today to declare that America is

495
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 11: going to win it.

496
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 3: God knows.

497
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 2: The administration has put its chips on the AI story,

498
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 2: the AI spend, the AI race, and this bit of

499
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: news from Reuters about Nvidia finally putting up h two

500
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: hundreds to China certainly has investors in a good mood.

501
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: It's got shares of in Nvidia move and higher here

502
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 2: up little more than one percent, but the whole space

503
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 2: is moving higher along with all of the mag seven

504
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: well with the exception of Apple today.

505
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 3: But that's not so much an AI story.

506
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: This brings us to the broader conversation about the data

507
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: center build out. And if you just get on the

508
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 2: terminal or get online, go to whatever site is search

509
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 2: data center and tell me what kind of headlines you see.

510
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 2: They'll talk about nimbiism, they'll talk about the need for energy,

511
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: they'll talk about power and electricity rates going up, and

512
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: they'll talk about the regulations that we just mentioned. That's

513
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: why we wanted to spend some time with Joseph Micah,

514
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: director of the Energy Security and Climate Change Program at CSIS,

515
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the home of

516
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 2: Gregory Allen, who's had some great conversations with us here

517
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: about AI, and I've been looking forward to this one

518
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 2: with Joseph.

519
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 3: It's great to see you. Welcome to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Hey,

520
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: thank you for having me a real so sure.

521
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: Everyone's got a different complaint. It seems at the moment

522
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: about data center, it went from a story of inspiration

523
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: over the summer by the time Jensen Wan got here

524
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: for the big GtC conference in Washington, we couldn't say

525
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: enough about how early the innings were that we were in.

526
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: Now there's a big worry about. Boy, we're bumping our

527
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: heads against the ceiling on energy capacity, on nimbiism, on

528
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 2: just available ground, and of course the fight over regulations.

529
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: We'll start more broad here, if you would.

530
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,479
Speaker 2: When you see a story like this and AI stocks

531
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 2: are popping up again, where are we in this race?

532
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 12: You know, I think it's a little bit like a

533
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 12: tailor two cities. It's the best of times, it's the

534
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 12: worst of times.

535
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

536
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 12: Looking back at twenty twenty five, it's been a remarkable

537
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 12: year of continued acceleration.

538
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 3: You know.

539
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 12: Industry reports released a couple of weeks ago showed that

540
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 12: hyperscalers signed contracts for new data centers as large in

541
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 12: Q three of this year as they did in twenty

542
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 12: twenty four altogether. And when we think about the buildout

543
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 12: that we expect to see over the next five years,

544
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 12: that's going to continue to happen. All of the challenges

545
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 12: that you raise, power, availability, water, use, a general sense

546
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 12: that society is not getting the benefits of the data

547
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 12: center build out, those are going to almost probably get

548
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 12: worse over that whole acceleration period rather than better.

549
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: That's really interesting because, yeah, you point, water use is

550
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 2: another one. A lot of people are just hearing about

551
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 2: these data centers. If you live in northern Virginia outside

552
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: of Washington, that's been your reality for a while. But

553
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: somebody comes to your neighborhood they want to put up

554
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: a data center and they say, well, you're going to

555
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: take my water away and you're going to make my

556
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: electricity rates go open. So it started a conversation about

557
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 2: what can these data centers and these projects do on

558
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 2: their own off grid, and will that be the answer

559
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: to all of them.

560
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 12: It won't be the answer for all of them, but

561
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 12: it will be a big part of the answer, particularly,

562
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 12: i think for the big ones.

563
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

564
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 12: So let's say you want to build a really large

565
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 12: data center, right, you have to spend a lot of

566
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 12: money on the chips, You have to spend a lot

567
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 12: of time and effort to get the right software and

568
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 12: data in place. And one of the things we're seeing

569
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 12: develop in the industry is so they look at these large,

570
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 12: sort of gigawatt scale facilities, is you need to probably

571
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 12: bring your own power, and then the real question to you,

572
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 12: for you as a developer is can you build the

573
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 12: right mix that's going to be reliable and how much

574
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 12: do you trust your on site generation for providing those

575
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 12: chips with power all the time twenty four seven because

576
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 12: you want to be running them. They're so expensive, you

577
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 12: want to be running them as much as you can.

578
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 12: And that's where we're seeing a lot of really interesting

579
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 12: policy development between regulators and developers so that developers can

580
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 12: bring their own power, build quickly, not burden everybody else,

581
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 12: but also rely.

582
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 6: On the grid when they need to.

583
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: Really interesting this talk of nuclear I think for many

584
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: people who have sent stocks like oaklow and constantly to

585
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: record highs this year, they're starting to come down on

586
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: a hold on, guys, this is maybe a five or

587
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: ten years out story. We're not building a lot of

588
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: new nuclear power plants. You specialize in energy, and I'm

589
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: just curious, specifically, how you look at this space now

590
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: and if we're really telling a natural gas story for

591
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 2: the next several years.

592
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 12: I think the story breaks down into two time frames, Joe.

593
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 12: Over the next few years, we have to use what's

594
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 12: right in front of us, and that's going to be

595
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 12: mix sure natural gas, solar power, increasingly batteries, a big

596
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 12: surprise over the past year, and a really strong outlook

597
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 12: for next year. And then of course you've read the

598
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 12: stories about the few nuclear reactors. They're sort of constructed,

599
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 12: recently retired, can be restarted, but you know, we don't

600
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 12: have a dozen of those land around. It's really two

601
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 12: or three projects post twenty thirty. That's really where I

602
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 12: think the sort of new nuclear technologies could come online,

603
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 12: where even older technologies, the large nuclear reactors that we

604
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 12: built much of the industrial capacity of the late twentieth

605
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 12: century upon, could be back on the grid, coming back

606
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 12: onto the grid.

607
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 6: And then of course there's questions.

608
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 12: Around you know, how much natural gas are when you're

609
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 12: building on the twenty thirties, what are the price pressures

610
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 12: there for the next five years. The story is almost

611
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 12: kind of written. It's just how quickly can we do it?

612
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 12: And after that then we get into sort of policy

613
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 12: and strategic thinking around energy sources.

614
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about regulation, but with regard

615
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: to power. You see Michael Burry, the guy from the

616
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: Big Short who's been shorting in video and really questioning

617
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: this AI spend which he says, is a circular investing

618
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: destined to fail. He's specifically calling out in Vidia today

619
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: for what he refers to as power hungry microchips over alternatives,

620
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 2: questioning the longevity of say a Blackwell or a Ruben,

621
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: and it's give and take deals in compensation. The more

622
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: efficient these chips get, the less power they'll need in

623
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: a data center. Could we be in a situation where

624
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: we were overbuilding or overlaying fiber, for instance, a lot

625
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: of years ago, where we're designing these data centers for

626
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: this massive intake of power when at some.

627
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: Point they're going to be in a box.

628
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 12: I think there's two ways to look at that question,

629
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 12: whether you're looking at it from the firm level or

630
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 12: from the sort of societal level. You know, in our

631
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 12: modeling we incorporated significant efficiency gains in the accelerated chips necessary.

632
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: That's already part of your view.

633
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 12: We already see ninety gigawatts of data center demand in

634
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 12: the US by twenty thirty for AI alone, that leave

635
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 12: alone traditional web services. That's a medium to upper endestment

636
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 12: when you look across the range of consulting firms and

637
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 12: industry specialists. So efficiency doesn't get you out of the

638
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 12: need to build a lot of new data centers. Now,

639
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 12: it could be like, for a variety of reasons, we

640
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 12: don't end up needing all that capacity. Yeah, maybe it's

641
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 12: a bubble something like that.

642
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 3: If you built it.

643
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 12: So, say you built a lot of electricity generation capacity,

644
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 12: society can absorb that capacity.

645
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 6: Okay Ai Data centers are the big story right now.

646
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 12: There's a lot of market correction and adjustment happening because

647
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 12: this is just a tidal wave of new demand. But

648
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 12: if you look at the next twenty years, we expect

649
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 12: to see significant electricity demand growth in the United States

650
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 12: for a variety of reasons. You've got reshoring of manufacturing.

651
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 12: Chip fabs take five hundred megawatts to a gigawatt themselves.

652
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 12: You've got electrification of the light passenger duty fleet, you've

653
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 12: got electrification of homes and businesses, and you've just got

654
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 12: economic growth. You know, the story of the last fifteen

655
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 12: years in energy and electricity for the United States was

656
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 12: one of plenty of new supply and major efficiency gains,

657
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 12: mostly because.

658
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: Of led lighting.

659
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 12: Over the next twenty years, we need a lot of electricity.

660
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 12: It's fundamental for our economic security and growth, and so

661
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 12: I'm very sanguine about the risks overbuilding electricities over the

662
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 12: next couple decades.

663
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: The EO that President Trump signed recently on a federal

664
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: landscape for AI regulations versus each state having its own

665
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: and creating a patchwork here and he says, if you're

666
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: in VIDIA, you just can't do business easily enough. It

667
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: slows things down to the point that will lose the

668
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: AI race.

669
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 9: Is right.

670
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 12: I think that everybody when you talk to I, talk

671
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 12: to my colleagues at CSIS, talk to people here in town.

672
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 12: Everybody agrees that a federalized system would be better for

673
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 12: diffusion than a patchwork. What does that federalized system look like?

674
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 12: So politically still have to write that, don't Yeah, of course,

675
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 12: and there I think there are big debates about how

676
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 12: do you incorporate safety, how do you deal with minors,

677
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 12: how do you deal with privacy?

678
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 6: And you know, whether.

679
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 12: You're a federalist or you look at or federal authority

680
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 12: as being the key here that we still don't need

681
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 12: to get over these big political debates. The structure of

682
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 12: the regulations is only half about. The content side is

683
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 12: of course one thing.

684
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 2: And we can talk about whether AI is eventually going

685
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: to eat us alive. But in terms of the data

686
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: center build out, having a federal policy would hasten the

687
00:29:58,600 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: end of this race, would it?

688
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 3: Not sure?

689
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 12: And we've seen from the Department of Energy in particular,

690
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 12: a real effort to use federal authority to help speed

691
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 12: the build out. On the electricity side, they've made significant

692
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 12: investments in nuclear power to help deal with the sort

693
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 12: of sustainable growth of the industry in years forward. But

694
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 12: they've also looked to change the way regulations apply to

695
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 12: large loads like new data centers, sort of federalizing the

696
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 12: way that works. That's traditionally a state responsibility. There's an

697
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 12: ongoing case at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, the federal

698
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 12: body in charge of the electricity grade, to figure out

699
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 12: how to do that right. And there again there's some

700
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 12: political debates you know who, you know, who needs to

701
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 12: pay for grade upgrades when you're building new data centers.

702
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 12: But Firk's in a good position, I think, to resolve

703
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 12: a lot of those things and make sure that the

704
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 12: best models are used.

705
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: National really interesting, this has been a fascinating conversation. That

706
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: build out still has another five years. First point you made,

707
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: that's right.

708
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 6: If you're in a second Industrial Revolution. It might be

709
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 6: twenty five.

710
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: Facet, it might be twenty five years. That sounds like

711
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: second inning. I don't know, Joseph, don't be a stranger,

712
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: Joseph miikat csis great conversation. Thank you for the insights.

713
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

714
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: more coming up after this.

715
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

716
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

717
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the blue Berg Business App.

718
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

719
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg.

720
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 4: Eleven thirty.

721
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: Was this time on Friday, we were anticipating the release

722
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: of the Epstein files. They hit right before the late

723
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: edition of Balance of Power on Friday, and boy, that

724
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: was quite a doozy of a conversation. They were coming

725
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: out in real time with massive redactions. We were scrolling

726
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: through them live on the air, blank page after blank page.

727
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: And of course this is not the full lot.

728
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: Todd Blanche, the Deputy ag suggesting that there are hundreds

729
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: of thousands and they will continue to be released in

730
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: the weeks.

731
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 3: Aheaf right.

732
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously they were all supposed to be released

733
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 5: on Friday, but as we discussed leading up to that,

734
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 5: because we were getting signals from the AG's office that

735
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 5: wasn't going to happen. There really is no enforcement mechanism

736
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 5: for that. So they've released some and they're going to

737
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 5: release more, and who knows, somebody online was joking the

738
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 5: Department of Justice mixed up their highlighter with their sharpie

739
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 5: because so much helps aredacted it was.

740
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 3: Just black lives. We see full black pages.

741
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Was startling, and of course, look, there's a lot of

742
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: sensitive information here, and of course they're looking to protect.

743
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: As we learned for the first time Friday, twelve hundred victims.

744
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: That's how many names were unearthed from these files. And

745
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: as a result, about a half dozen photos were taken

746
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: off of the server over the weekend. One of them

747
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: included a photograph of Donald Trump, and so there was

748
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 2: an immediate outcry of conspiracy. Those were in some cases

749
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: were reinstated. But we're hearing from the lawmakers Christina, and

750
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: we've talked to both of them here recently, who were

751
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: on the discharge petition. The Democrat wrote ConA, the Republican

752
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: Tom Massey, they want to hold the Attorney General in contempt.

753
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I think that's interesting. We'll see if it

754
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 5: happens or not. But the problem with this issue is

755
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 5: there are so many eyes on it that something like

756
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 5: that photo you were just talking about, which was a

757
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 5: drawer with a bunch of picture frames and it looks

758
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 5: like it might have had a familiar face in there, and.

759
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 4: All of a sudden it was up and it was down.

760
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 5: You've got too many people, too invested in this to

761
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 5: really get away with that kind of thing because people

762
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 5: notice it and they noticed that it went away, So

763
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 5: all eyes are on it.

764
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 4: And as we were just talking about with Nathan.

765
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 5: We're gonna have to see how much this plays for

766
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 5: the next year, because although it was a big deal

767
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 5: on Friday, it then kind of fizzled. I'm not sure

768
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 5: it got as much coverage, as much pickup as we

769
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 5: were expecting, and I'm not quite sure that's.

770
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: In terms of public reaction that's fair.

771
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: Now, as we mentioned, there's going to be a resolution

772
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: in the Senate Chuck Schumer introducing today that would direct

773
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: the Chamber to initiate legal actions against the DOJ for

774
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: what he calls blatant disregard of the law. Massey and Conna,

775
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: who I mentioned, say they're considering bringing inherent contempt charges

776
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: against BONDI let's see what our panel thinks today. Bloomberg

777
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: Politics contributor Genie Shanzano is with us, of course, our

778
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: democratic analyst and democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's

779
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: Ash Center. Were joined as well by republican strategist Greta,

780
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: joints policy director at Brownstein.

781
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: Hya. It's great to see you both. Genie.

782
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: You've had the weekend to consider this, and I know

783
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: you were with us of course late Friday when these

784
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: files emerged. What's your thought about what is left? We

785
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: could be getting document dumps any moment now, and we

786
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: could continue right into the new year, and they may

787
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: show us a lot more than Bill Clinton. What should

788
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 2: we have in mind here as this process unfolds.

789
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, they absolutely might. By some accounts, there are something

790
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 9: like five hundred gigabytes of material and about three have

791
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 9: been released, so there is a lot more to go,

792
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 9: percentage wise, the amount of redactions and the amount of

793
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 9: material missing material that people know should be in there,

794
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 9: including the original sixty count indictment against Jeffrey Epstein, and

795
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 9: then the memorandum as to why he was only charged

796
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 9: with two counts in the end, all missing, and of course,

797
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 9: as we talked about, heavy, heavy redactions all to come.

798
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 9: So people are very frustrated with the amount of material

799
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 9: missing and the redactions. But there was some material released

800
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 9: on Friday which is utterly horrifying, including for the first

801
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 9: time we see the document from Maria Farmer to the

802
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 9: FBI September third, nineteen ninety six, charging Jeffrey Ebstein with pornography.

803
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 9: He is not even investigated really for another decade, and

804
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 9: we're thirty years after that. So when we talk about

805
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,479
Speaker 9: the entire federal government, starting with the FBI, falling down

806
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 9: on this, that is a horrifying example. And to your point, Joe,

807
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 9: twelve hundred potential victims, if not more so, a lot

808
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 9: of material released and tons yet to come.

809
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 4: And Greta those twelve hundred victims.

810
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 5: The government has said and possibly there's a point here,

811
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 5: and I want to ask you what you think that

812
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 5: one of the reasons they're not able to release everything,

813
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 5: the reason it's taking so long is they do need

814
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 5: to comb those files and make sure they're not inadvertently

815
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 5: divulging the identity of victims. This is something the victims' families,

816
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 5: of victims themselves have been very outspoken about that. There

817
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 5: have been, you know, releases in the past that have

818
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 5: compromised their identities. But you have that weighed with this

819
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 5: feeling even from as Joe is just saying some Republicans

820
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: on the committee that the AG is not doing what

821
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 5: it needs to do.

822
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 4: So what is your take on that?

823
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 5: And do you think Pam Bondi could really have congressional

824
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 5: action taken against her.

825
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 13: No, and let's be clear, it's one Republican on the committee,

826
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 13: It's not the majority of Republicans on the committee. So

827
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 13: I think that there is a lot of focus obviously

828
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 13: on these documents. I think there should be a lot

829
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 13: of focus how Bill Clinton is throughout, and I think

830
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 13: that narrative is sort of lost, right. You know, there's

831
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 13: there's been a number of opportunities for the FBI to

832
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 13: release these documents since they first started combing through the

833
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 13: various things that Jeffrey Epstein was.

834
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 6: And should have been charged with, and so.

835
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: Ultimately, you know, it's it is a.

836
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 13: Little interesting that now ultimately Pam Bondi is the only

837
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 13: one that could possibly release these documents over the course

838
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 13: of the years, and trying to play catch up and

839
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 13: comb through these which were you know, very much hidden

840
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 13: when when President Trump was sworn into office this time,

841
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 13: and ultimately make sure that they are releasing them in

842
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 13: a proactive but also a way that protects victims and

843
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 13: also people who.

844
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 4: Are caught up in these.

845
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 13: Documents who literally did nothing wrong and don't want to

846
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 13: be associated with someone like Jeffrey Epstein.

847
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 2: Well, I think the point is there's a law now

848
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: though right Jenny had mandated the release of these files

849
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: by Friday, the administration did not meet the deadline and

850
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: also did not meet the requirement that there would be

851
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: a searchable database. So there is some accountability here for

852
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: the Attorney General.

853
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 3: Now there is, I mean, oh, sorry the story Jie

854
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: first and then Greta go ahead.

855
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 9: Yeah, the Epstein Files Transparency Act. And you know, they

856
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 9: had thirty days, and so if any of us are

857
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 9: under the requirement of a law that requires thirty days,

858
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 9: Todd Blanche went out this weekend and said, well, we

859
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 9: had two hundred lawyers working through this, you know, absolutely,

860
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 9: but if they weren't going to get through it, in

861
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 9: thirty days. Given it's a law, they had to get

862
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 9: maybe two hundred more lawyers. Do we know what's going

863
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 9: to happen in terms of the Attorney General? Absolutely not.

864
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 9: We're hearing things from Rocanna, We're hearing things from Tom Massey.

865
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 9: I'm not sure that they'll go five partisan support to

866
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 9: take any.

867
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 4: Action on any of this.

868
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 9: But the reality is is that this is a total

869
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 9: political mess for the White House.

870
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: When Susie Wilds says.

871
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 9: Pam Bondy with the entire White House has whiffed one

872
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 9: this and continues to because every day they're talking about

873
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 9: Jeffrey Epstein, they're not talking about what they want to

874
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,479
Speaker 9: be and so this is a problem for the White

875
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 9: House politically. And of course, back to my consistent message

876
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 9: for the victims and survivors as well, gret I don't know.

877
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 5: If you wanted to go ahead with what you're going

878
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 5: to say earlier, I also want to ask you. I mean,

879
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 5: to that point, the White House knows that this is

880
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 5: an issue that Democrats can go after them about ahead

881
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 5: of the midterms, leading up to all of these things

882
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 5: they're trying to get done.

883
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 4: Why not do better?

884
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 5: Why not put more pressure on the age to get

885
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 5: this done so they can get it off their plate

886
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 5: and move on with their agenda.

887
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 13: Well, I think that they are doing the absolute best

888
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 13: they can. I don't know where one would procure an

889
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 13: additional two hundred lawyers to cone through Jeffrey Epstein documents

890
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 13: in a way that ultimately was serving the best interests

891
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 13: of the victims and of the other people that are

892
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 13: mentioned in these files, while also providing the transparency that

893
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 13: Democrats have failed to provide since Bill Clinton was in

894
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 13: office and started flying around on the low Leader Express

895
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 13: with Jeffrey Epstein. So I think there's a lot of

896
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 13: catch up. Thirty days is an incredibly short period of

897
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 13: time to go through that many documents in a way

898
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 13: that is responsible. Ultimately, I'm sure that Democrats would love

899
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 13: to just release everything so they could ultimately try to

900
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 13: find more victims that they could use as talking points

901
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 13: for this narrative that they continue to push when they

902
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 13: literally have decades of failing to do anything about this.

903
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: So you really seem to think this is a Democrat issue, Greta,

904
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 2: Am I reading you right?

905
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: This is the Epstein thing is a Democrat story?

906
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 13: Well, I think ultimately there is one president who is

907
00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 13: caught in the Epstein files so far potentially partially nude

908
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 13: with victims of Jeffrey Epstein. So you know, I mean,

909
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 13: I think that that is certainly pretty newsy, but ultimately

910
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 13: I do think the picture is he in a hot

911
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 13: tub with any of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

912
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: Well, no, but you didn't make that the criteria.

913
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 2: You said, there's only one president who's who's photographed in

914
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: the files, And we've seen a lot of pictures of

915
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 2: Trump floating around.

916
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: I said, we're not even through half of these yet

917
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: of the president.

918
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: Well, these the president's the president who is in office

919
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: now is in photographs with multiple redacted women. We don't

920
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: know who they are, do we.

921
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 13: Well, there's Democrats who've redacted some of those photos, and

922
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 13: then there are other potential women's department.

923
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, let me finish my thought.

924
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 13: What I was saying was that, certainly there are pictures

925
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 13: that have been released by the attorney general who is

926
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 13: serving President Trump. In previous administrations, democratic administrations, they have

927
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 13: released nothing. So ultimately, whether these were compelled by law

928
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 13: or by not, those pictures of the president were not redacted.

929
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 4: They were released.

930
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 13: And while there are certainly redactions which were to be

931
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 13: expected as per the law that President Trump signed. There

932
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 13: is certainly been a ton release and there is more

933
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 13: to be released, and it will be done in a

934
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 13: way that is responsible and keeping the victims top of mind.

935
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 4: Before we go.

936
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 5: We don't have a ton of time, but Genia, I

937
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 5: want to ask you if you've been keeping your eye

938
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 5: on the Turning Points USA convention out in Arizona and

939
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 5: some of the sound.

940
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: Do we have time to play the sound or no.

941
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 4: We're just going to.

942
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 5: Ask you if what you're thinking about what's going on

943
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 5: about there. You know you've got Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro,

944
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 5: You've got all kinds.

945
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 4: I mean, are the kids fighting?

946
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 5: Is this an opportunity for Democrats or are you know

947
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 5: they're going to mess it up again?

948
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 9: Well, of course I had to follow Christina because Ki

949
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 9: Minaj was there, so she was the special test. Absolutely,

950
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 9: And yeah, I think the most interesting thing was JD.

951
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 9: Van's trying to walk this tightrope. And it's going to

952
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 9: be curious to me. I know, we're short on time.

953
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 9: It's going to be curious to me as the leading

954
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 9: contender for the Republican nomination early as it is Can

955
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 9: he keep up walking that type robe as we go

956
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 9: forward or is he going to be forced to pull aside?

957
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 9: And I think that's going to be the big question.

958
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 9: And vig Ramaswami he did take a side, which was interesting.

959
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: We're going to get into our next hour with our

960
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: panel on geopolitics, Christina Raffini and Joe Matthew.

961
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Balance of

962
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: Power podcast.

963
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

964
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

965
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at New Time

966
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 2: Eastern at Bloomberg dot com