1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: Quody balance, but Joseph's gotten more. You know, throughout I 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: guess crime history, there are geographical locations that are associated 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: with horrific events. All you have to do is look 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: at you know, Jonestown for instance, or some such place 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: as that. And you know, I think that part of 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: that goes to the idea that you know, we as humans, 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: we have to have some kind of marker to keep up, 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, to understand and automatically when you hear certain names, 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: they create a chill up and down your spine. Today, 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: I want to talk about a case that originates back 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. And the name that is associated 12 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: with this event, which is so horrific, is actually called 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: the Compound. It's located in Florida, and what took place 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: at that location I believe will chill you to your core. 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body by Brother 16 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: Dave Good to join you. I you know, I feel like, 17 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I feel like I just absolutely assault 18 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: you based upon these cases that I send your way, 19 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: because you know, there's no you know, I don't know 20 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: rainbows and lollipops, you know, where we kind of in 21 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: dwell many times, and they're horrible things, but I feel 22 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: like this is a case that we need to talk 23 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: to we're talking about we're talking about a single mother 24 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: of two and what seems to be an origin of 25 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: the story in the dating app world. It's a brave 26 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: new world that we live. 27 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: Nancy Howry, divorced, mother of two, good relationship with the 28 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: ex husband. They share custody of their two children, and 29 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: Nancy fails to pick the kids up from school as 30 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: she normally would. And when that happens, her ex husband 31 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 2: knows this is out of this is not normal, something's wrong, 32 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: and so immediately he's on the phone reporting her missing, 33 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: and boom they find out. Okay, you've mentioned this so 34 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: many times. I'm glad you have, Joe, because you've mentioned forensics, 35 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: in data forensics, in our phone, our computer. The forensic 36 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: the digital forensics that we experience now are relatively new, 37 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: and every day it's getting closer and closer to knowing 38 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 2: where you are every minute of the day, being able 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: to hear your every word, being able to see what 40 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: you're seeing. The camera on your computer, the camera on 41 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: your phone, it's watching you, yes, and it's marking where 42 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 2: you are and that's what they did to track this case. 43 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and as I have Offseid and I will continue 44 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: to say, you know these you know, boat anchors that 45 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: we carry around in our pockets everywhere we go. Now, 46 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: and I teach this at Jack State. You know, my 47 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: students are entering into a world where literally these are 48 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: portable crime scenes that exist. And in twel with us 49 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. You know, I mean, you cannot escape, 50 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: You can't escape. You know, they're tracking, and you know, 51 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: and look to the credit of everybody involved in this case, 52 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: they really really track this guy down. I guess, Dave 53 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: in a pretty expeditious manner, if you will. You know, 54 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: there's some of these things that kind of hang in 55 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: the ether out there. But they tracked this guy down 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: pretty quickly, didn't they. 57 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: I went back and pulled the news reports from the day, okay, 58 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: and you're talking about February eighteenth. She doesn't pick up 59 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 2: the kids. Within a week, they are on track with 60 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: the mister Stearns because he Daniel Stearns was dating Nancy Howry. Now, 61 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: Daniel Stearns is only thirty two at the time and 62 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: Nancy is forty four. That's a big difference. In age. 63 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: When you look at it from the standpoint of you 64 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: have a thirty two year old guy, and now you 65 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 2: have a woman who she's already gotten one marriage behind her, 66 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: with two kids, she's got an established career, she's taken 67 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 2: care of things, and he's thirty two and is dating. 68 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: You know, I mean, that's just to me, that's a 69 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: big difference at that time in life. You know, if 70 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: sixty two and fifty maybe not so much, seventy two 71 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: and sixty not at all, but forty four and thirty two, 72 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: that's a big difference to me. 73 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's one other person involved in this. She's 74 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: you'd mentioned previous marriage. She's It would seem at least 75 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,119 Speaker 1: that she's got a pretty good relationship with the ex, 76 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: doesn't she. 77 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because he's the one that called and said 78 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: she didn't pick up the kids. This is not normal. 79 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: She's you know, and we looked at her house, called 80 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: the phone, can't find her, she's missing. And he was 81 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: the one that lit the fire, and every and thankfully 82 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: everybody responded because, as you've said, the forensics that you 83 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: can find. Think about it. If you're using a dating 84 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: app to date somebody, you're tracked right there, already done. 85 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: You're being tracked if you do something, and they need 86 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: to find out, and they did. They were able to 87 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: find Daniel Stearns had been in contact with her, they 88 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: had met, they had dated, and they'd also found out 89 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: a number of other things from mister Stearns from well, 90 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: text messages and things like that, that Daniel Stearns had 91 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: rules for dating that he expected Nancy to follow. And 92 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: Nancy Howry, who had already gone through a divorce, custody 93 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: battles and all that. You're not going to push a 94 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: woman like that around. You got to respect that respect 95 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: a woman who has done this. But he didn't. And 96 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 2: Daniel Stearns didn't like the fact that she was dating 97 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: other men. She wasn't just seeing him. She don't want 98 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 2: to to see him, She wanted to see what was 99 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: out there. 100 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: Well, she's a single mom, and so you know, look, 101 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: I got to tell you from my perspective, all right, 102 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: every time you go on a date with somebody, and 103 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: it's it's like an extended interview, particularly if you've got 104 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: two kids, you know. And look, I mean, people get lonely, 105 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: they need related they long for a relationship, but for 106 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: a single mom that has two kids. You have to 107 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: think you're dating him, Yes, but I'm interviewing you to 108 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: see if you're somebody I wanted my kids' lives and 109 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: that's a that's a huge responsibility. So that kind of 110 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: adds something to it. And you know, I don't know. 111 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: I mean, people throw around the term play in the 112 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: field and all that, and I guess that's kind of 113 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: a well worn term now, you know, by my standards again, 114 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: I come from the days of barn dancing and ice 115 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: cream socials. You know, oh wait, yeah, there were a 116 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: few singles bars. You know, I don't want you to 117 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: think I've got straw hanging out of my teeth or anything. Ready, 118 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a it's just a different world 119 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: that we live at. It's terrifying. I've got to you know, 120 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I've got a twenty four year old son that's just 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: essentially he's just kind of giving up. You know, he's 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: not going to do that. You know, he's career driven, 123 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: and so it's it's kind of a tear. You don't 124 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: know what's out there, what's lurking, you know, in the 125 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: internet ether if you will, you know, what's floating about 126 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: and what you're gonna and and look, a lot of 127 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: this is based upon what it's based upon a questionnaire 128 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: you know that you kind of fill out, you know, 129 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: what are you looking for? And I wonder, I wonder 130 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: if there's a question on one of these, one of these, 131 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,559 Speaker 1: you know sites, where it says you shall not date 132 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: anybody else, you must be exclusive to me. I don't know. 133 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: I think that would narrow the field down pretty quickly. 134 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: What do you think? You know? 135 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right. And it's interesting that it's 136 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: interesting how some men think. I guess I'm not an 137 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: enlightened cat like you know. I just can't imagine enforcing 138 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: something light on somebody, you know, I can't think of 139 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: treating somebody so disrespectfully. It's like if Frida, What if 140 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: you're looking for one thing and they're looking for something else, 141 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: that immediately tells you we're not matched up, move on. 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: But that's not the case for some people. And I've 143 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: known a number of men like this that are discussing people. 144 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: The compound area that we were talking mentioned earlier, it's 145 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: an area of Florida where it's twelve square miles of 146 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: roads of sewer lines that have been poured, there's power 147 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: lines have been run because they were going to build 148 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: Infrastructurey were building the infrastructure for housing and shops and things. 149 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: Twelve square miles is a big area mass and that 150 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 2: was this area called the compound. And so as police 151 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: were able to they got Daniel Stearns as this guy 152 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: who has dated our victim Nancy. We don't know where 153 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: she is, and we know she was dating him based 154 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: on their communication that we have text in forro On. 155 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: They were arguing because she would not just date him only, 156 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: and they were able to determine that he mister Stearns 157 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: was making a number of trips from his house into 158 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: the compound in his truck and they started following him 159 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 2: and Joe. It's almost like they didn't solve the they 160 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: didn't find out what happened until after they found out 161 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 2: what he was doing in the compound. You know, it's 162 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: not like they found Okay, they had an argument in 163 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: this side of the house and here's blood over here 164 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: where he did whatever, and this is where he rolled 165 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: her up. And no, they didn't find her like that. 166 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: They found here in multiple areas in the compound, multiple 167 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: areas where she had been buried well, Hilarius telling you 168 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: that she was dismembered, right, yeah, yeah. 169 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: When you say multiple areas right now, Dave that picture 170 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: you just created for me, I'm thinking mounds, individual little mounds. 171 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: And if this makes a case like this particularly, I 172 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: think from a scene processing standpoint, it's it is a 173 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: gold mine. From a forensic standpoint, however, it makes it 174 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: kind of daunting when you think about you know, one 175 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: of the things we talk about many times is primary, secondary, 176 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: and tertiary scenes. Right well, if you were to stick 177 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: with the letter of this, with that, you know you're thinking, okay, 178 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: where's the primary scene? I would go back to say 179 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: that the primary scene, if you can figure it out, 180 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: is going to be the location where she is actually killed. 181 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: And also, again you had mentioned that she was dismembered. 182 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: Dismemberment is in my estimation, is not going to take 183 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: place in multiple locations. It's going to take place in 184 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: a central location, and the body will essentially be kind 185 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: of parsed up, I guess, and then delivered. I wonder 186 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: if that's what's going on in this particular case. But 187 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: I got to tell you there's one more element to 188 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: this case from a forensic standpoint that makes it all 189 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: the more difficult to work. I'll give you a hint. 190 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: It involves heat. I don't know if I've ever told 191 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: you this before, Dave, Yeah, back at you, big guy. 192 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: I work a series of killings in New Orleans many 193 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: years ago, and it was a guy that he had committed. 194 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: It was a serial killer and he had killed. It 195 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: wasn't some huge enormous number, and right now my memory 196 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: fails me. I think it was maybe five or six. 197 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: This guy would kill prostitutes and then every single time 198 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: he would kill them, he would go back to that 199 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: location and dump the body. Well, the sheriff's office got 200 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: the idea that we need to get two guys and 201 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: just assign them to that area and have them set 202 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: up a hide. And Dave, you know what this is 203 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: back in the olden times, I guess, as my grandson 204 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: would say, they actually caught this guy pulling a body 205 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: of a trunk. Wow, And he would he was dumping 206 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: this dead prostitute that he had strangled with wire. There 207 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: in that spot are approximated the same spot. And you 208 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: know that was way way before the days I think 209 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 1: our cell phones. Back then, you had to have a 210 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: bag with a strap around your neck. So there wasn't 211 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: a lot of tracking, you know that went on with 212 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: cellular cellar tracking back then, but now you know, it's 213 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: opened up an entirely different world, particularly and I think 214 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: it's very well demonstrated here in Nancy's Nancy's homicide. 215 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting that her the case where 216 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: she doesn't pick up the children on the eighteenth, on 217 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: February eighteenth, you know, that's where the investigation begins. And 218 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: so they were like, well, when was she last seen 219 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: And it wasn't on the eighteenth, That's when she didn't 220 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 2: show up pick up the kids. And as they tracked 221 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: it back, they went back to February fifteenth, that was 222 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 2: the last time she was seen. She actually met a 223 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: friend and they were at a gun club in Palm Bay, 224 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: and she with her friend at the gun club and 225 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: they're able to use digital information to determine that's where 226 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: her cell phone was, just like the friend said, and 227 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: her friend said, well, she was meeting her the guy 228 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: she's been dating Stearns later on, and so now they 229 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: have that's the last person. The last time she was 230 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: seen alive was at the gun club with her friend, 231 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: telling your friend. I'm going to see this guy I've 232 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: been dating Stearns, Daniel Stearns, and so that's when police 233 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: got his name. So you're talking day one, they already 234 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: have the name, how they met online, they're pulling text messages, 235 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: they're pulling stuff online of the dating from the dating app, 236 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: and very quickly they start looking for Nancy Howry. Where's 237 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: her car? She drove a Honda Odyssey minivan. And so 238 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: day one of the search, the first twenty four hours 239 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: they're looking for that car and her and they find 240 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: the Honda mining van and it's abandoned. And Joe, you've 241 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: done so many investigations over time. We often hear this 242 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: term abandoned. If a car is parked somewhere and left, 243 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: is that abandoned or is that just a term that 244 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: is used that the individual who normally drives this car 245 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: is not driving it. It was parked over here and 246 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: it's not in their driveway. 247 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd have to, you know, one of the things 248 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: that my mind would flee to relative to that comment 249 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: about the abandonment of a vehicle. First off, you know, 250 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: obviously there's a huge delineation and I think you and 251 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: I both throughout our lives, We've been in positions where 252 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: our car broke down right right, Well, we didn't abandon 253 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: our vehicle. It's mechanically unsound. And did you know that 254 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: in cases like this there's a whole team of did 255 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: you know that many larger jurisdictions employee mechanics that check out, Yeah, 256 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: we'll check out how functional a vehicle is. Wow, And 257 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: they can pull other data off of this. These people 258 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: are very bright. You know, there's there's a lot of 259 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: forensic data you know that comes off of vehicles, and 260 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: particularly nowadays, you know, with the onboard computers and they 261 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: can be tracked and all these sorts of things. Uh, 262 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm looking now, you know, you know where 263 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: my mind is going there. I'm the last case, Yes, Celeste, 264 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: you know out in California with this you know this test. 265 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that an Honda Odyssey rises to 266 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: that level of technology, but what I am saying there's 267 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: information that you can pull off of a car, so 268 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: is it in fact functional? And also if it is 269 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: functional and you take that car in, one of the 270 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: things you're going to want to look for and here 271 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: is there any evidence? Well, first off of life there, 272 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: and further, is there any evidence of the end of 273 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: life there? You know, we begin to think again about 274 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: this idea of primary scenes. Well, if you've got a vehicle, 275 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: was she actually killed in that vehicle's point in tom 276 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: you have to entertain that thought as an investigator, because 277 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: the devil is in fact in the details. You want 278 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: to be able to kind of suss us out and 279 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: try to understand what kind of violence was committed in 280 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: a vehicle. So they would go over this abandoned vehicle 281 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: very very carefully, particularly when they can come back and 282 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: they tag it to a person that is, let's face it, 283 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: a single mom of two who you can set your 284 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: clock by her relative to the handoff with her ex husband, 285 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: who they seem to have a pretty healthy relationship, and 286 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: he's the first person that calls it in. One more 287 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to mention to you about this is 288 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: that how many of these cases do we cover now 289 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: over these years where when you have some type of 290 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: violent event involved in a spouse, automatically our eyes go 291 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: to that spouse or the ex spouse. You know, in 292 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: your pink that's prime suspect, right, But this guy wasn't 293 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: like this. He immediately alerted the police. He's on board 294 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: with this. You know, it's not like one of these 295 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: people that kind of SLINKs off into the darkness and 296 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: doesn't participate in the search. He clams up, he calls 297 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: an attorney, all those sorts of things. You're talking about, 298 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: the missing mother of his children, and he has a 299 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: full appreciation of that. We actually found out about that 300 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: in court. Relative to him in comments that he made 301 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: case Dave. 302 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: He was We'll get to that in a minute, because 303 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: he really just I just respect him for what he 304 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 2: did with the investigation. The ex husband in this case, 305 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: her car was I was thinking about a case we 306 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: did out of Atlanta, Joe in the recent past, where 307 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 2: a woman went missing. She was an eye doctor, I believe, 308 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: and her husband had been out of town and over 309 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: the course of a weekend in Marietta, she had gone missing. 310 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 2: And you know, anyway, and she turned up. She wasn't hurt, 311 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 2: she was alive. But they mentioned her car was abandoned, 312 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: And in that case, her car was abandoned, but it 313 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 2: was in a parking lot about a half mile from 314 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 2: where her office was. But it was in a parking lot, 315 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: and I thought, how weird to call that as abandoned. 316 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: So whenever I hear that term, that's my first thought, 317 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 2: what is abandoned? Well, in this case, her car was 318 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: found abandoned on the side of a road, and it 319 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: was found on the side of the road in Paulm Bay. 320 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: Now I don't know how big Palm Bay is, I 321 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 2: don't know how many roads there are, but that's where 322 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: it was found. Okay, So her car is found in 323 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: Paul Bay. The compound is in Palm Bay. So police 324 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: immediately are looking at Daniel Stearns as a person of interest. 325 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: They bring him to talk to him and whoa, he's 326 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 2: all over the map. And by the way, when you 327 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 2: try to lie to a cop, especially a detective, even 328 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: a regular street cop, but mainly because they hear lies, 329 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: they are more lies than truth. But a detective, yeah, 330 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: you're not gonna They already have a lot of information 331 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: before you sit down in front of them, and they're 332 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 2: going to bust you. And so they said from his 333 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 2: first interview. He was interviewed twice during the course of 334 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: the investigation and showed significant areas of deception and identified 335 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: himself as the prime suspect in the case. Through their 336 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: discussion with him during the investigation. That's how quickly they 337 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 2: had him and they started surveilling him. Then, So Joe, 338 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: they're watching Daniel Stearns and they see Daniel Stearns leaving 339 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: his home in his pickup truck and driving into the 340 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: compound different areas and it looks like he's burying things. 341 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: What does that tell. 342 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: You if they have that kind of information, that's going 343 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: to be significant in the idea. Can you imagine being 344 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: a police officer and you begin to track somebody and 345 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: they're carrying around items in this truck and probably the 346 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: tools to facilitate this, and maybe you see him going 347 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: out discarding things, digging holes, packing the earth, all manner 348 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: of things like this. Your suspicion has been raised almost immediately. 349 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: You know that there are in fact problems ahead for 350 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: this man, and the police probably know that they have 351 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: a killer brands. You know, it's quite one thing to 352 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: have remains, you know, just found. And I got to 353 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: tell you one of the interesting things, Dave, is the 354 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: fact that you've got multiple holes, if you will, that 355 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: are dug in these locations are at let me just 356 00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: say it again, the compound, and they're recovering out of 357 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: these you know, areas that have been dug out in 358 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: the earth are burned human remains. You got a lot 359 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: going on here because you've got dismemberment, you've got burning, 360 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: and then you've gotten bearing. There's a lot of action 361 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: involved with all of this. But you know, the big 362 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: question is, and you and I have talked about this extensively, 363 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: if we can find out who a person is, everything 364 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: else comes into focus, right because you begin to figure 365 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: out who who was in their orbit, who's who is 366 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: the reality of their life that they're living at that 367 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: moment in time. But you know, there was a big 368 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: there was a big piece to this that occurred. And 369 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm not being flippant when I use that term piece, 370 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: because they've they they found a finger. Now what. 371 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: Are the chasms and everything else? They find a finger. 372 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: They found a finger in it's intact, and the beauty 373 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:08,239 Speaker 1: of this is that you can take a finger and 374 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: you can actually roll a print off of it. I've 375 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: talked about in the past with I know we've had 376 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: this discussion about the de gloving of hands and decomposition 377 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: and how I've actually used a glove over my hand 378 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: and then put the de gloved hand of a of 379 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: a decendant over my hand and rolled a print off 380 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: of that. This this finger, though, appears to have been intact. Now, 381 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that we will do with individual 382 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: digits of you know, like if your fingers are cut 383 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: or let's just say all that is left is the pad, uh, 384 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: the pad in other words, the tip of the finger 385 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: if it's kind of shriveled. Because one of the things 386 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: that happens with human remains like this, particularly fingertips, it 387 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: always happens more distantly, like so, the shoulder is proximal 388 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: to the torso, the fingers are distal to the torso, 389 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: so the furthest way apart. Did you know that those 390 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: areas begin to desiccate first, so they dry out, so 391 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: lots of times what we do in an attempt to 392 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: kind of rebuild the tissue is that we can use 393 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: a substance that funeral home directors use called tissue builder, 394 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: and you literally inject it into the site and the 395 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: area begins to swell. It swells, and then you can 396 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: roll a print off of it. Here's an interesting little exercise. 397 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: If anybody's interested in teaching your kids forensic science, just 398 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: at a basic level, go out and purchase white party balloons. 399 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: They have to be white. Okay. Get an ink pad. Okay, 400 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: if you've got a child and you want to teach 401 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: them about fingerprints, ink their finger, roll their finger across 402 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: the surface of an uninflated white balloon, and blow the 403 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: balloon up and see what happens. All of a sudden, 404 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: their fingerprint comes to life and it just like swells 405 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: and you can see all the little details in there. Oh, 406 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: I know, it's pretty amazing. But it's the same principle 407 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 1: relative to taking a a dismembered portion of the body, 408 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: because we've got a lot of dismemberment that has gone 409 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: on here. I'm just curious as to how that finger 410 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: got separated from the hand and this this actually winds 411 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: up put in a name with all of these pieces 412 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: that are out there. Isn't that? Isn't that kind of amazing. 413 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 2: The whole this entire story. 414 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: It is. 415 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: It is really amazing how far science has come, you know, 416 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: forensic science, to be able to digitally you know, using 417 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 2: digital forensic science. Here they were able to track this 418 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: guy back using the cell phone in online activity and 419 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 2: they're following him around. I think we've got this fifty 420 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 2: hours you know, of surveillance time on him. They've got 421 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 2: him going into the compound, which is a huge area, 422 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 2: but they've got him going and they know where he is, 423 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 2: and they found him doing things that you have no 424 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: reason to do. I mean, you don't have a reason 425 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: to go out and bury a bucket of stuff in 426 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere. It's just not something that normal 427 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: people do. 428 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: Well, correct me if I'm wrong. When when they discovered 429 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: this guy, he's actually dumping a bucket into an adjacent canal, 430 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: correct the canal? Yeah, yeah, so they've got eyes on him. 431 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: Can I throw something else at you real quickly? You're 432 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: going to go for it? Well, I think that this 433 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: is quite salient here, just because you have this finger 434 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: that has been you know, dismembered or cut away from 435 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: the rest of the body. That's only a finger that 436 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: you're identifying. And I'm going to introduce the lawyers on 437 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: the stage here, because you know, if you're if you're 438 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: going down a road where you're going to charge some 439 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: with a homicide. Okay, I think that it's it's dictated 440 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: to us that we have to make sure that every 441 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: one of these individual holes contains the validated remains scientifically 442 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: validated remains of the missing subject, because you know, people 443 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: could say, well, you know, we've got random holes out here, 444 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: how do we know they're all tied back? But that 445 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: fingertip is the thing that begins to kind of point 446 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: the way, isn't it, Because if you can, in fact 447 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: get that finger identified to a specific person, and then 448 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: you go through and any kind of viable remain, even 449 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: though it's burned, you might confine something in there. Can 450 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: you tie all of that together in one neat package 451 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: where we can actually demonstrate in court? And you have 452 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: to be prepared to do this so and they can 453 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: make it very dramatic. Certainly the prosecutor can well and 454 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: hold one, we've got this part of our body and 455 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: whole two this and do you see how the drama 456 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: bills with that? If you're taking that to core and 457 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: the science is kind of paving the way for all 458 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: of this, because now it's even more powerful, I think, 459 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: in my opinion, than just saying, well, we found a 460 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: suitcase full of dismembered remains. No no, no, no, no, that's 461 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: not what you're talking about here. We not only do 462 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: we have dismembered remains, each individual part has been subjected 463 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: to severe heat in an attempt to render the body. Now, 464 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: oh and by the by, this guy went to the 465 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: links of digging a hole for each element over and 466 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: over again and again. It goes to kind of the 467 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: darkness you know that surrounds all of this. I see 468 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: it would Yeah. 469 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 2: Go finger, Joe. Okay, you've got a finger, but we 470 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: do have the other body parts. And as you mentioned 471 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: in court, is not enough to say, well it has 472 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 2: to be x X. You know, it doesn't work like that. 473 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: You actually have to prove it because you've always got 474 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: some guy. Yeah, probably was the class clown who comes 475 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: up and says, okay, you have the finger, but you 476 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: know what, she could have owed the and they chopped 477 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: it off to get her to come up with the money, 478 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: you know, and that doesn't mean he killed her. We 479 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 2: don't know. You got to prove it. So how are 480 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: you going to do that with the rest of the bones? 481 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: You got the finger? Okay, we know this is her finger. 482 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: I'm not being light on this at all. It's just 483 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: that's how I'm gonna be honest show. Having done crime 484 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: related reporting for a long time now, some defense attorneys 485 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 2: have no shame and say things with a straight face, 486 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: and actually you think, well, he's an educated guy or 487 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: a woman. Surely they wouldn't just make this up out 488 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: of nowhere. But they do all the time. So, all right, 489 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 2: you got the finger identified. You know you're on the 490 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: right track. But what about the bones. You've got a 491 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: body that he tried to render down. As you said, 492 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: that's I got a feeling that's going to be really 493 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 2: extra heinous for a jury to hear. 494 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two ways that we go we go about this, Dave. 495 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: I think that again, back to a comment that I'd 496 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: made earlier, I think that you have to find viable. 497 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: It can't just be the tissue as be viable tissue 498 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: that you can actually do DNA testing on to say, okay, 499 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: this bit belongs to this person. And just imagine, if 500 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: you will, like the person you know is the central 501 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: pivot point in all of this, and you've got kind 502 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: of these almost like a ven diagram, these bubbles extending 503 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: out from that person, each one of those little bubbles. 504 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: What you want to do is scientifically validate the existence 505 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: of that person at the center point with these individual 506 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: bubbles of data and where it goes back to them 507 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: and you can actually say, and so you have to 508 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: scientifically verify that. The other part to this that is 509 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: really key here and goes to another level is anthropology, 510 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: because if all else fails and you're trying to get 511 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: an ID, you know what an anthropologist can bring to 512 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: the table here, And there are some very fine ones 513 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: in Florida. By the way, they've got several forensic anthropology 514 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: programs in the state of Florida. I don't know if 515 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: people are aware of that, but I digress. You can 516 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: still do facial reconstructions and the morphology of the bones. 517 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: You can look at the morphology and say, okay, this 518 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: is a white female, this individual is within this age range, 519 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: and you might even be able to determine if this 520 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: individual is suffering from any kind of disease in life. 521 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: You know, with women you get things like osteoporosis that's 522 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: evidenced on the bone, if they have arthritis, all those 523 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: sorts of things that you look for that are the 524 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: nature of a life having been led. But here's the key. 525 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: In this particular case, they did involve a forensic anthropologist 526 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: and guess what they found. You've got a particulated skull. 527 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: And when I let me just put that in more 528 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: layman's terms. You've got a skull that is grossly fragmented. Well, 529 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: why is it grossly fragmented? Was fragmented because it's been 530 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: slammed by a lead core projectile. In other words, you've 531 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: got someone that has been executed. Dave, This from what 532 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: we're understanding at this point, she the victim was actually 533 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: executed with a GSW to the back of the head, 534 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: and Dave, the forensic anthropologist, was actually able to go 535 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: back and say that there's an exit wound through the forehead. Now, 536 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: a lot of folks will ask, well, Morgan, how in 537 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: the world do they determine a whole as a whole? Right, No, 538 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: it ain't, it's not. And the way they determine if 539 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: something is in fact an entrance versus an exit. If 540 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: you will think about a BB being shot through a 541 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: glass pane. Okay, if you walk up to that defect 542 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: in the glass, you'll notice that one side is smooth. Okay, 543 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,479 Speaker 1: you've got a hole in it. You look at the 544 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: other side, and that side will be beveled. It'll have 545 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: it'll have kind of a if you think about like beveling, 546 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: like rounded edges, like you see on footboards and things 547 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: like that. Crown not crown molding. What am I trying 548 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: to say? You know that runs along the floor floor molding. 549 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: That's a beveled edge. So it's yeah, it's shue mooed 550 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: there you go, shoe mold. It's rounded. Well, Dave, did 551 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: you know that whatever side of the defect you've got 552 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: that mold, that that rounding, that rounding on the beveling, 553 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: that's where it went. That's where it exited because it 554 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: blows out, It literally blows out, and it leaves that 555 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: kind of interesting ridge there behind. So when this individual 556 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: the anthropologist is trying to put this skull back together, 557 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: suddenly this thing just like pops to life. Can you 558 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 1: imagine being there and you actually see this in your 559 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: lab and you're trying to figure this out. You know, 560 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: how in the world did the skull get this fragmented? 561 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: You begin, you hope you have all the pieces, because 562 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: sometimes they don't. You begin to put this thing together, 563 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you breathe life into this skull. 564 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: If you will, you begin to understand the dynamics. The 565 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: other thing that an anthropologist can actually do, Dave, Sometimes 566 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: they can determine range of fire because did you know 567 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: that even on the surface of bone, we always talk 568 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: about gunfire as it applies to like clothing and skin. 569 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: Did you know that if you have a press or 570 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: close to press contact gunshot wound, like on the back 571 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: of the head, that that injection, it's not just the projectile, 572 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: it's actually that hot air that's being injected into that space. 573 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: Did you know the scalp kind of pulls away from 574 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: the bone for a second like this, and if there 575 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: is unburned gunpowder and smoke and soot, it'll actually deposit 576 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: on the external table of the skull. So you can 577 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: go in there and you can actually see kinds of 578 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: this darkened area there. If you do a scraping on 579 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: that and you look at it with a scanning electron microscope, 580 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: you'll be able to chemically identify that that is probably 581 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: propellant or a product of propellant, you know, otherwise gunpowder, 582 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: And then you're going to see this blown out, you know, 583 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: so it and you can determine trajectory too, you know, 584 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: like what was the relationship physical relationship between the victim 585 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: and the perpetrator where they standing above when they did 586 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: this and this goes from backwards because we know that 587 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: we know that it's going from back to front. Okay, 588 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: so back to front, from below to above. You think 589 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: about a classic GSW gunshot one to the head, and 590 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: classic I mean in the sense of a classic execution 591 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 1: where somebody is kneeling before an individual where their back 592 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: turned to them and they're popped in the back of 593 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: the head. Well, that trajectory is from above to below. 594 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: The trick is to try to understand can you get it? 595 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: Can you get it where you can determine directionality from 596 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: the perspective of does it go from the left to 597 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: the right, from the right to the left. That's a 598 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: bit more difficult to determine when you have a fragment. 599 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 2: It scoll though unbelievable. So that's how they were able 600 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: to present this case where we have a woman, an 601 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 2: accomplished woman, divorced custody arrangement with the X good relationship 602 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 2: there and at forty four she goes out and starts dating. 603 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 2: Does not want to become exclusive to this one guy 604 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 2: and he can't handle that, so he takes and kills 605 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 2: her by a shot to the back of the head, 606 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 2: and they're able to show how he did it to 607 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: get the fingerprint from her middle finger and five piles 608 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 2: buckets of her that he has disgustingly tried to do 609 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 2: away with in an area called the Compound in South Florida. 610 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the tale that is told here, and it's terrifying, 611 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: particularly in the world that we live in today, where 612 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: it's not like you walk into a bar, or you 613 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: go to a church social or you're at school or 614 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: a friend introduces you. You're talking about a phantom that 615 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: seemingly only exists in the digital world, and then suddenly 616 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: life is breathed into them when you meet them and 617 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: you realize you've come face to face with a sadistic demon. 618 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bugs.