1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. While we've all heard 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: stories of elected officials using their political influence to get 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: what they want, but I think today's story, I mean, 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it other than 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: this is just going to horrify you. I'm joined today 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: by an attorney. His name is Brandon Wolf. Brandon is 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: an attorney currently representing a Michigan family whose daughter was 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: assaulted during school. I have to say that again. This 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: family's daughter was assaulted during school, sexually assaulted by a 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: prominent local elected officials son. Now, Brandon is leading a 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: federal lawsuit on behalf of the girls' family, alleging that 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: the rapist parents use their respective political positions to circumvent 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: a Mason County or a Mason school's expulsion Title ex 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: complaint or sorry Title nine complaint and a personal protection 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: order to get their son back into that same school 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: as his rape victim. I mean, this, Brandon, Timmy is shocking. 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: As a mom of girls, I'll remind everybody I have 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: four daughters. This was eighth grade, Am I correct? 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? The original assault happened in the eighth grade, that's correct. 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: So this assault happened during class. I mean, can you 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: just kind of explain what happened, because I know we've 22 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: posted a little bit about this online. This happened in Michigan. 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: The reason I find this very interesting is that this 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: is a The mother of this boy is in Ingham 25 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: County clerk. This woman is the county clerk. So she 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: is really answers to our secretary of state who has 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: said nothing. So in the state of Michigan, the Secretary 28 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: of State, Jocelyn Benson, has said nothing about this. The 29 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: woman who is in this lawsuit that you are saying 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: used her political influence. Her name is Barb Biram. She 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: is very vocal on social media as kind of I 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: would say, an influencer for the left. She comes out 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: and she attacks people, and it has been for years 34 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: that she has come out and talked about rape and 35 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 1: rape victims, and rape victims are always having to live 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: with this. A predator is always a predator. She's tweeted 37 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: out things like this. Now we're in this situation, her 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: son is the predator. Explain to me exactly what happened 39 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: in this eighth grade classroom and how we got to 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 1: where we are today. 41 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's a great starting point. I don't 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 2: know how you can reconcile the fact to talk and 43 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: be an advocate for sexual assault victims on one hand, 44 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: but then you know, allow your trying to your child 45 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: to go right back into the same school with the victim. 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: And this school is not a big school. This is 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: a small school. And like you said, I mean, in 48 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: first of all, there a PPO in place against the 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: child before he got reinstated into the school. 50 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: How does that even work if you have I mean, 51 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: in such a small area. How can you have a 52 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: PPO and the child gets put back in the same school? 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you follow that PPO? 54 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: It's difficult. The school kind of put itself in a 55 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: difficult spot, right because they knew the PPO was in place, 56 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 2: And basically what they did was say, let's do a 57 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: no contact order, which means nothing. It means basically nothing 58 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: in the school itself, because it's almost impossible to implement. 59 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: You can't implement something like that because she's inevitably going 60 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: to see this person in the halls in the school, 61 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: in the classrooms, in the lunch period. And basically what 62 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: the no contact order does is treat her as she's 63 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: equally blameworthy for her own assault, meaning she can't go 64 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: down certain hall. Basically, what they say is, why don't 65 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: you suck it up and go down a different hall, 66 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: Why don't you take a different class. 67 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: Of course, the person who has to the victim in 68 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: this case, has to then suffer the consequences of the 69 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: perpetrator getting to stay. I mean, I just don't understand this. 70 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 2: I don't either, and that's why we sued the Mason 71 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: Public School District because they completely drop the ball on this. 72 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: I mean, really, I think they had an easy out. 73 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: They could have said, well, you know what, Look, we've 74 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: got a victim here. We've got a student that's been 75 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: convicted of sexual assault going right back into the same school. 76 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 2: We've got an easy out here, and we can just say, 77 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: you know, look, this is a school of choice kid. 78 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 2: He can pick another school or go in the school 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: wherever he resides in and that's it. I mean, we 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: need to think about the victim here. There needs be. 81 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: Let's dig into what you just said, because you're saying, 82 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: he convicted of this, so this is a Title nine violation. 83 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: And you explained to me before we got on, before 84 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: we started recording. So this boy in class and just 85 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: for the audience. This is graphic, so just prepare yourselves. 86 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: But in class, this boy reached into this girl's clothing 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: and he started to assault her with his hand underneath 88 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: her underwear. And this happened in class, in the school, 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: in class, in class, and so that opens up a 90 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: whole nother box of questions. I'm like, how does this 91 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: happen that a teacher doesn't see this? How But because 92 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: it happened in class, I would say almost, Because that happened, 93 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: there is even more evidence because when you have this 94 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Title nine complaint, they interview all kinds of people, including students, 95 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: who witness this, and there seems to be no dispute 96 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: this occurred. 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: It seems that that seems to be the case, and 98 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 2: that's how they found. They found him guilty of doing 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 2: what he's done. And by the way, he's lawyered up immediately, 100 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: which is his right to do. You know, I am 101 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: a lawyer. I don't have children myself, but if I 102 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 2: had a son, those are serious allegations. And let's be 103 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: fair here. You know, we do have due process in 104 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: this country, and I believe in that. But at the 105 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: end of the day, I mean, he lawyered up he 106 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: never denied the allegations. You know, there were no criminal 107 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: charges brought, and I can get into that there's a 108 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 2: reason why, but you know, I would want the system 109 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: to ferret itself out and find out if that really happened, 110 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: and in fact, it really did. 111 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: And when they found out that it really did happen, 112 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: he was expelled from the school immediately. It was like 113 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: you're done here and something else you said. You talked 114 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: about the fact that he's choiced into the school. So 115 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: for those of you listening outside of the state of Michigan, 116 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan, we have school choice for 117 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: public school. So if you don't like the public school system, 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: or it doesn't you don't feel the public school system 119 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: in your area serves your child's needs, you can choice 120 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: them into another public school, whether it's another local, whether 121 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: it's a public charter, your child can be choiced into 122 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: another public school. So in this case, Barbairam's son was 123 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: choiced into this school. He then raped a student at 124 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: the school, was expelled from this school that is not 125 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: his district school. Not like he doesn't have another option. 126 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: He can go back to his home school. Whether or 127 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: not I believe that he should be allowed in a 128 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: public school at all. That's a totally different subject. But 129 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: if you were the parents of this boy and you 130 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to make a big stink about this, I 131 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: would imagine you would quietly take this boy out of 132 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: his school and put him in the school that he 133 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: is supposed to be in and a regular basis anyway. 134 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: But I think that goes to the arrogance of these 135 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: parents to say that we have this other option for 136 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: this kid. We could say, you know what, we don't 137 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: want people to find this out. We want to protect 138 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: the girl in this case, we want to protect our son. 139 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: Let's see what we can do to try to keep 140 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: this out of the news. Little did we know the 141 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: news would be so protective of this situation, and they're Democrats, 142 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: that they would not report on this. In fact, it's 143 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: been very hard to find any reporting on this. I 144 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: think one TV station, but the Detroit News is not 145 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: reported on this. And the Detroit News actually has been 146 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: asked several times. I've seen several times on Twitter, people 147 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: have on x people have said, hey, when are you 148 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: going to start reporting on what happened with the student? 149 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: Because it got to the point where the Mason High 150 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: School students actually staged walk out, didn't they? 151 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, they did, and anything good for them. And to 152 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: be fair, I have been contacted by several local news sources. 153 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: I think this is a hot button, key issue for them, 154 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: especially when she's up for the election coming up. Here 155 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: is my understanding, but uh yeah, you know, I think 156 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: people are tired of just corruption in politics. I think 157 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: the favoritism, the egregious favoritism here. I mean, I wonder 158 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: if this was a factory worker's boy or blue collar 159 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: worker's son. I wonder if he would enjoy the same 160 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: privileges that this that this person is enjoying right now. 161 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it could have been an easy thing. 162 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: If I was a parent, I would have been like, 163 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: you know what, let's just take the loss on this one, 164 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: and let's put him in a different school and let's change. 165 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: Let's let's close this chapter in his life. Let's move on. 166 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's been under of course, under Barbyram's own words, 167 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: once a predator, always a predator. So perhaps she doesn't 168 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: think there is closing this chapter on her own son's life. 169 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that, But I do want to 170 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: say that the students who walked out walked out every 171 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: safety concerns. So clearly this is something that not only 172 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: has not gone away for the girl in this case 173 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: nor the boy in this case, but it is something 174 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: that the entire school now is so concerned about that 175 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: she not only has to attend the school, she has 176 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: to face the fact that other students are worried about 177 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: their own safety because after this child was expelled, somehow 178 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: they seem to have fenaggled away to get the school 179 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: board to go to reverse their decision that was unanimously 180 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: to expel him, to unanimously bring him back. Doesn't that 181 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: seem a little bit odd? 182 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems very odd to me. And that's one 183 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: of the things I look forward to digging into in 184 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: the lawsuit. You know, how that possibly and why wasn't 185 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: the victim consulted about this? 186 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: Why that didn't happen at all? 187 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: No, that never happened. Why wouldn't you bring in the parents. 188 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you bring in the victim and say and 189 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 2: ask them, hey, how have you been affected by this? 190 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: How would you feel if this this person is reinstated 191 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: back into the school. One of the elements of the 192 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 2: statute actually is that you have to consider the victim 193 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: and how they might respond to something like this. It's 194 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: like being locked in the same jail cell as your perpetrator, 195 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, You're in the same building 196 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: all the time where you see this person that assaulted you. 197 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 2: I mean, that's traumatic. And for a fourteen year old girl. 198 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 199 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. I mean, and I think that 200 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: what you just said is so key because you likened 201 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: it to a jail cell. Because to my point and 202 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: to your point, this is forcing this girl to be 203 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: in a prison of sorts of her own nightmare that 204 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: she has to relive every day because the school has 205 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: made the choice to go along with this. So you've 206 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: filed this federal lawsuit because you want to dig into that. 207 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: And I think that it's important for our audience to 208 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: understand that when something like this happens, you cannot just 209 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: let it go. This is something we talk about on 210 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: this podcast a lot, is that it falls on community 211 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: and sadly oftentimes it falls on the victim to force 212 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: the issue to make sure that this stops in the future. 213 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: And this, to me is key because if our schools 214 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: are allowing predators back in, and we know that this 215 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: happens sometimes with teachers, but now a student to let 216 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: the predator back in, it's going to sadly fall on 217 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: the victim and her parents to push back and say, 218 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: we want to dig into this, and so tell us 219 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: a little bit about what that federal lawsuit allows you 220 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: to dig into to find, so that you know exactly 221 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: what happened when they made this decision to suddenly reverse 222 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: their expulsion of the child. 223 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, the lawsuit is not an easy 224 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: one because you're bringing a lawsuit against a government agency, 225 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 2: which is always difficult. I'm sure you've heard about it 226 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 2: in the news, and they enjoy what's called governmental immunity, 227 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: which meaning they can shield. But it's a very high 228 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: standard to to accuse them of wrongdoing because you know, 229 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: it's the government and we all pay taxes to the government. 230 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: So it's difficult. But I mean, this is right off 231 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 2: the back of the Larry Nasser stuff with Michigan State. 232 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: I mean, so let's be honest. You know, the school's 233 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: turning a blind eye to this stuff. I mean, people 234 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 2: are it's enough, it's enough, and you know what else 235 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: this is communicating to victims, your voice doesn't matter. Yes, 236 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 2: Why is it that people should speak up and voice 237 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: their concerns about what happened to them if it's not 238 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: going to matter. And it also sends a message that 239 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: this boy's education is more important than this girl's education. 240 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 2: To me, that's what it's doing. You should feel safe 241 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: when you go. 242 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: It's more important. This boy's education is more important than 243 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: this girl's safety. Yeah, I mean it goes beyond just 244 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: her education. It's more important than her even being safe. 245 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: It's literally raising him above all other students because now 246 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: he's a predator. And he is a predator, in my opinion, 247 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: to every student in that school. And that's why I 248 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: would say that the students walked out because they feel 249 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: as though they are going to school with a predator 250 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: in their midst. For me, I don't understand the parents 251 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: of the boy in this case, for Barb Birom, why 252 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: make this decision? Why put your son in the position 253 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: where people are like, dude, you did this. You've caused 254 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: us a massive problem. We've had to walk out of 255 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: the school. But whatever she has made that as a parent, 256 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: she's made that decision. A woman who has been vocal 257 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: about why abortion should be available every single day because 258 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: of rape. I mean, the two things, I'm like, are 259 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: you kidding me? I can't even write this stuff. And 260 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: in a state where we have one of the I 261 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: think we're fifth highest rapes per capita in the nation 262 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan. All you hear from our 263 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: attorney generals, we're going to stop this. All you hear 264 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: from our governor, Governor Whitmer, We're going to stop the 265 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: rapes in this state. All you hear from these top three. 266 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: And Joscelyn Benson has the ability as Secretary of State 267 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: to weigh in on this and say, you know what, 268 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: at this point, bar Bairam needs to step down because 269 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: she's under investigation. You have this lawsuit pending. We need 270 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: somebody that is level headed, that we know is going 271 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: to make good decisions when she is sitting in the 272 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: county clerk's office. She needs to step down. Have you 273 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: heard anything from Jocelyn Benson? 274 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: Nothing? And I don't anticipate it. I'm not really concerned. 275 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I'll be I know this is a political show, 276 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: and I get that. I'm not concerned about the politics 277 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: in this at all. I'm concerned about what's right and 278 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: protecting Mason School students. That's who should be you know, 279 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: should be protected here. You know, I think the right 280 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 2: thing to do is for her to step down. I 281 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: think this is a terrible decision. I mean, how could 282 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: you possibly reconcile the fact that you're speaking up for 283 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: advocates but then at the same time allowing your kid 284 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: right back into the same school. And by the way, 285 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: I had a conversation, if this family doesn't want this, 286 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: this family doesn't want to go through all this lawsuit 287 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: and all this news. They don't care. They want their 288 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: kid to enjoy their educational experience, and all this is 289 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: doing is hindering her environment. And I spoke with the 290 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: attorney right before I filed this lawsuit and I said, 291 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: let's settle it, you know, let's get him out of 292 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: the school. That's all we're looking to do. And you know, 293 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 2: he said, no, we need to work out a deal 294 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: so he can continue to go to Mason, get a 295 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: scholarship at you know, potential scholarship because he's a good swimmer. 296 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: I said, that's the last thing I want to hear. 297 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: The entitlement that it emanates from the byrum lawyers, and 298 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: their side is palpable, and that's what really gets me 299 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: going on this. But I just you know, I didn't 300 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: want to file this lawsuit either. I didn't want to 301 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: make this big spectacle, but apparently we had to do that. 302 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying about not wanting to make 303 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: this political, But let me push back on that a 304 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: little bit, because in this case of three women that 305 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: are at the top positions in this state who have 306 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: been very vocal about protecting women, this has been their platform, 307 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: and of course, as a woman and a mother of 308 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: four daughters, that is the one thing that I would say, gosh, 309 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: I really hope that they are going to do that 310 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: when they were elected to office. Clearly I wasn't rooting 311 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: for Gretchen Whitmer in the last election, but as the 312 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: governor of this state and Dana Neessel as the attorney general, 313 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: the way they have spoken about protecting women and the 314 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: Me Too movement and the Women's March and protecting survivors 315 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: of sexual assault, and quite honestly, for Governor Whitmer as 316 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: a survivor herself, and she's been so passionate about talking 317 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: about this, I say, how can it be that these 318 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: women are not willing to make a statement now and 319 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: protect this girl, because that could stop all of this 320 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: for her. She doesn't have to deal with the the media, 321 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: she doesn't have to deal with the student in the school. 322 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: I don't understand how at this point they can't step 323 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 1: in and say, Okay, enough is enough, this is what 324 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: should happen. 325 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's bad enough that she had to 326 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: go through the initial assault, but now he returns to 327 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 2: the school, reopens all those wounds, and she has to 328 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: see him again every single day. It's ridiculous to me. 329 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: Have you heard anything, as you've now you filed this lawsuit, 330 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: have you been able to have any light shine on 331 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: why that decision was reversed, because again, it was unanimous 332 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: that they were kicking him out. And this is not 333 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: a question as to whether or not this assault occurred, 334 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,479 Speaker 1: and it's not a question as to whether or not 335 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: she feels that this is a constant pain. I mean, 336 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: I was talking to my husband about this and I said, 337 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: the thing that I think I can't get out of 338 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: my head as a parent, and I'm sure your clients 339 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: feel the same way, is that you never reverse that, 340 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: that never goes away. She's always a survivor now, and 341 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: the thought of her having to see the person who 342 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: did this to her every day, that this falls on 343 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: the family to protect her from him, that there's no 344 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: outside protection. I just I think it's shocking. Have you 345 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: been able to find out why at all? They reverse that? 346 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 2: Not right now? No, we just begin a lawsuit. They 347 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: filed the motion to dismiss the case, thinking that they're 348 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: going to get out of the matter, which I anticipated, 349 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 2: like filed what's called the twelve B six motion to 350 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: try and get out of the case. I'm very confident 351 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 2: that I'm going to survive that motion. But at this 352 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 2: early stage, no, I haven't really discovered what happened in 353 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: that decision. I'm not. It doesn't really make sense to 354 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: me how they can expel somebody. But to be fair, 355 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: by law, they do have one hundred and fifty days 356 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 2: from the date of the expulsion to petition the Board 357 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 2: of Education to reinstate the child. So everything they did 358 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: they had the right to do, but whether or not 359 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 2: it was the right thing to do was a different question. 360 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: You mentioned criminal charges, and I've noticed a lot of 361 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: chatter online because we've been following the story very closely, 362 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: as they've said, not only because obviously this is a 363 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: horrible story happening in our state, but also as a 364 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: mom myself, I'm like, gosh, what do I need to 365 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: be prepared for? I need to be watching this And 366 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the chatter online has consisted of there's 367 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: no criminal charges and therefore this kid didn't do this. 368 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: You said you would explain a little bit as to 369 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: why there are no criminal charges. Can you get into that. 370 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, So what happened was was the Title nine investigation 371 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 2: started to occur and the Mason Police Department was notified 372 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 2: that this happened. Well, Brad Delaney happens to be a 373 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 2: pretty high ranking share of lieutenant or something in the 374 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: Ingham County Sheriff's department, and because of that conflict, they 375 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: referred it out to the Attorney General so that an 376 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 2: unbiased police department can conduct that prosecution and investigation. So 377 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: that's what happened. So it's referred to Jackson County, I believe, 378 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: as the county that was presiding over the case. And 379 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: at that time their child was expelled. And my client 380 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: is obviously fourteen years old. She's a very shy, quiet girl, 381 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: obviously you know she's and she was like, well, look, 382 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: I don't want to stand up in a trial. And 383 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: the prosecutor came to her and said, look, if you 384 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: want to move forward with these charges, you're going to 385 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 2: have to get up there on the stand and testify, 386 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: and she said, I don't want to do that. I'd 387 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: rather just move on with my life. If he's expelled 388 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: from the school, that's good enough for me. I'm going 389 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: to continue on going to school. I want to close 390 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 2: this chapter and move on with my life. So that's 391 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: what ultimately happened. So I think the prosecutor, by the way, 392 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like any domestic violence case where 393 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: you know, if the person being abused doesn't take the stand, 394 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 2: the prosecutor really doesn't have a whole lot of evidence 395 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: to work with, right, So that's I think my understanding 396 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 2: is is that the prosecutor kind of took their foot 397 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: off the gas and just let it be and didn't 398 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: move forward with charges. But I mean, you can still 399 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 2: proceed without the victim, but it's more difficult to do, right. 400 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 2: They kind of let the water under the bridge on 401 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: that one. And then meanwhile the parents petitioned the board 402 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 2: I think he sat out a year of school and 403 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: did it online and then petitioned the board and he 404 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 2: was reinstated that following year, in the tenth grade year. 405 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 406 00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So now the students are in 407 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: high school and she's having to finish out high school 408 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: with him there because he has the potential for a 409 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: swimming scholarship and that has to happen in this high school. 410 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this is that you you really cannot make 411 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: the stuff up. And I think that I speak for 412 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: most parents when I say I cannot imagine anyone hurting 413 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: my child in school, the school making the determination. And 414 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: I think again it's important for people to understand the 415 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: investigation that the Title nine investigation showed that this did 416 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: did occur. That's why he was expelled and then this happens. 417 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: I do want to say that we obviously talked about 418 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: Gretchen Whitmer, Dana Nessel, all of these folks are. We 419 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: have a local paper and local Michigan online paper here 420 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: it's called The Midwestern or dot News. They did reach 421 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: out for comment from Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Attorney General Dana Senator, 422 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: US Senator Debbie Stabinow, and US Representative Alyssa Slackin who's 423 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: running for senate. Also the Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. 424 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: They all chose not to respond. When you hear that 425 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: they won't even respond for comment, and you have heard 426 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: no statements from them, and you just said that this 427 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: did get referred to the Attorney General's office. Now you 428 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: find it a little stunning that there hasn't been a 429 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: single statement on a young woman who was assaulted in 430 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: her eighth grade classroom. 431 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: To me, though, it doesn't surprise me at all. Of 432 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 2: course they're going to refer. You know, they're going to say, 433 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: let our lawyers answer for us, will let it work 434 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: itself out in litigation, and turn a blind eye to 435 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: everything and not address anything, which is why people are 436 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: speaking out. And I think people have had enough of it. 437 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 2: So I really can't comment on what their legal strategy is, 438 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 2: but I expected it doesn't surprise me. 439 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: Is this an isolated incident or have you heard of 440 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: similar situations in schools in Michigan or across the country. 441 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: Do you feel like this is a situation where it's 442 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: tough because parents are more likely to say, we'd rather 443 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: our daughter or our student that was the victim not 444 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: have to live through it any anymore. And this kind 445 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: of stuff continues to happen. 446 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 2: Well, I've gotten three phone calls from mothers and fathers 447 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 2: since this lawsuit was filed, where they're there their daughter 448 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 2: or their yeah, their daughter, most yeah, it's been all 449 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: their daughters. They've been in similar situations where they just 450 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: don't feel like they've ever they haven't been heard, and uh, 451 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's a systematic problem. Systemic 452 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: problem within the public school district. I think they're clothed 453 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: in immunity and they can kind of you know, they 454 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: have a lot of wiggle room, you know, so, but 455 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: with this, I think it's just completely egregious. I don't 456 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: know the exact circumstances, but parents have called me and 457 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: voiced their concerns that you know, this is not an 458 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: isolated occurrence. Well, it is isolated in the sense that 459 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: it happens to that individual, but it does go on 460 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: more than you think. 461 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: Well, we are obviously we're going to be following this case, 462 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: but I know that we've had other similar circumstances where 463 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: parents have had faced terrible difficulties, and they've almost become 464 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: the advocates for other parents in those cases, and that 465 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: has changed how people see these cases. Something that we've 466 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: been recently talking about on the podcast is not necessarily 467 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to change the 468 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: way the system works or the way the board meets 469 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: or whatnot. But just bringing this, making this a higher 470 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: profile case and making people aware that parents are going 471 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: to fight back makes it less likely for the schools 472 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: in the future to say, oh, we're going to put 473 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: the predator back into the classroom with the person the 474 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: victim of the crime. Do you encourage other parents when 475 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: they call you, or if parents are listening right now, 476 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: do you encourage them to, Hey, you know what. I 477 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: know it's hard, but go out there and fight back 478 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: and take the legal case and see what can happen, 479 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: So that these schools feel the pressure and know that 480 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: people are watching. They're not going to just let you 481 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: get away with it. 482 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. I think raising awareness is a really 483 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 2: important thing in our democracy and for similar situations like this, 484 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: and you have to it's difficult. It's difficult for this mother. 485 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 2: She calls me all the time to say you know 486 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: I've got this going on, or this new source wants 487 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 2: to talk to me about it. I just want this 488 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: to go away in my child's life. You know, it's 489 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: not easy standing up for what's right. It's really not. 490 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: It's difficult, and sometimes you're up against very powerful people, 491 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: which I do it all the time, but you have 492 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: to otherwise everything is just going to remain the same. 493 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: And look, I just want to be clear about this 494 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: with this situation. My heart goes out to both mothers 495 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: in this case because I think that being the mom 496 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: of the girl would be heartbreaking. Being Barbiram is also 497 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: heartbreaking to find out that your son is going out 498 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: there and doing this. And I think that I disagree 499 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: with her actions clearly, But I also want to say 500 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: that this is a woman who has been featured as 501 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: one of the faces of democracy for upholding the highest 502 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: ethical and professional standards, following all laws. That's how she's 503 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: been presented. This is to me, if you are presented 504 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: that way, then you are held to a higher standard 505 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: and you should expect that if you have a problem 506 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: like this, whether it is a problem your family or 507 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: your personal life, you are a public official and you 508 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: need to lead the way that we would expect anyone 509 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: else to lead, And in this case, I just say, 510 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: Barbirom has the opportunity to stop this for both kids. 511 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: Right now, she just has to move her son out 512 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: of the school, and I think that that's the right 513 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: move for her. Obviously I don't get to choose that 514 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: for her, but I believe that most people who listen 515 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: to this and hear the story will say, this is shocking. 516 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: We are anxious, Brandon, to hear what you uncover, because 517 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: if this is a case where mom and dad on 518 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: the boy's side did somehow pressure the school board based 519 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: on their political influence, and they have great political influence. 520 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: As I said, she's considered one of the faces of democracy. 521 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: She's obviously very close to Gretchen Whitmer. There are pictures 522 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: of her with all of these prominent political figures in 523 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: the state of Michigan. So I do think from that standpoint, 524 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: we as a KI community should expect more of our 525 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: elected officials to protect the people that are most vulnerable. 526 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: And I really cannot think of anyone more vulnerable than 527 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl. But we we're anxious to 528 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: hear what happens and we'd love to have you back 529 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: when you have more information on this federal lawsuit. 530 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice to be here. Thanks for having me. 531 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 2: I'll tell you they're fighting me every step of the 532 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 2: way on this case, so I'm sure there's going to 533 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 2: be more and more updates as things go on. But 534 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to aggressively pursue it myself and I look 535 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 2: forward to getting some justice out of this for this style. 536 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, if they came to you 537 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: today and they said, you know what, we've heard your concern. 538 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: We're actually going to take him out of the school, 539 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: does that end everything? 540 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: No? Not, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't, because 541 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 2: we still have the decision to allow him back in 542 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: the school. That has to change. I want to see 543 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: some change, not just from our political from our politicians, 544 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 2: but from a school board itself. I mean what, I 545 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: don't understand why they allowed this to happen. And this 546 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: is not the first time this has happened, where you know, 547 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: a victim has been right back in the same school 548 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,959 Speaker 2: with their with their assaulter. And I'm going to look 549 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: into it on this one, and we want I want 550 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: some change. Let's see a policy change. Let's see something. 551 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: Sometimes this is the only way you're going to get 552 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 2: any any change because they only respond to money and news, 553 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: these politicians. Sometimes that's the only thing that's going to change. Otherwise, 554 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 2: you know, this poor woman would be in the same 555 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: situation right now if we didn't bring this to light. 556 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 2: So this is important, This is important part of the process. 557 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it begs the question should the fate 558 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: of a young woman be left in the hands of 559 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: five to seven people who could be influenced. I mean, 560 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: it seems it's not even the number of people that 561 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: we have in a trial. You know, you're talking about 562 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: a very small group of people in the community and 563 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: her and she wasn't I think the shocking part about 564 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: it is that she wasn't given a voice at that 565 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: decision to bring him back. When you said that, I'm like, 566 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: how can this be that they make this decision and 567 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: this is such a personal decision for this family. They 568 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: didn't even contact her parents. 569 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, it's a very flippant decision. They didn't 570 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: notify her that. I think that she was notified two 571 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: weeks before school started with starting that he was going 572 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: to be back into the school. So that's how much 573 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 2: notice they gave this girl and it's egregious, in my opinion. 574 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: Shocking, shocking. Well, Brandon Wolf, thank you so much for 575 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: being on today. We appreciate you sharing with us and 576 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: we're going to keep everybody posted on what's going on 577 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: with this. And just again, let me reiterate, when you 578 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: have the ability to speak up, I mean you said 579 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: it best. What affects these places is media and money. 580 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: So you got to hit him where it hurts, make 581 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: it public, and make sure that they end up with 582 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: a lot of damages because that's what prevents them from 583 00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: doing it again. 584 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: That's the only thing that stops them. So thank you 585 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: for having me today. It was nice nice chatting with. 586 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: You, absolutely, and thank you all for joining us on 587 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go 588 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: to Tutordison podcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, 589 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: or head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 590 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time 591 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a blessed day.