1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: P I Magazine is the most respected magazine of the 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: professional investigator, featuring stories and articles on current topics, equipment reviews, 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: investigative tips, and practical advice for the professional investigator. Don't 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: miss a single issue of PI Magazine. Subscribe today at 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: PI magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: your special discount at p I magazine dot com. Subscribe today, 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM 9 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one thirty two. After they met at a 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: work event, the world stopped steal. They dated, he broke up. 11 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: She did not accept that she traveled across the desert 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: with gas cands in her trunk so as not to 13 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: leave a trail at a gas station with a credit 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: card or an a t M. Showed up at his doorstep, 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: had a marathon day of sex, then stabbed him twenty 16 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: nine times and kept it off with a shot to 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: the head. And today she's blaming everybody him, his family, 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: the media. ME. I don't feel that special for her conviction. 19 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm talking about none other than Jodi Arius. I Meancy Grace, 20 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories, thank you for being with us. 21 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: Joining me right now along with Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, 22 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: founder of child crime Watch dot com. Dr Brian Russell, 23 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: host of investigation discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows, renowned New 24 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: York psychologist here and Stark Alexis terres Chuck joining me 25 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: from Radar Online dot com. Alexis, I know you stayed 26 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: up through the night sifting through over four hundred and 27 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: thirty pages of appellate brief from Jody Arias. I mean, 28 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: isn't it pretty simple? Isn't her digital camera found in 29 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: his washing machine by police, with the wet laundry, with 30 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: photos of the crime as it happened, accidental photos? I mean, 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: and I'm missing something. According to Jody, what you're missing 32 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: is that this is all your fault, Nancy. Right off 33 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: the bat in this brief filed this is the first 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: time in three years we've heard from Jody, other than 35 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: finding out that she was buying things make sex stories 36 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: behind bars, is that she blames you, Nancy Grace, for 37 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: her getting what she says is an unfair trial. She 38 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: says that she did not kill Travis for any other 39 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: reason except for self defense. She goes through her excuses 40 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: for killing him. She has written, her attorneys have written 41 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: in this crazy brief that she finally found out that 42 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: Travis was a pedophile and then he abused her and 43 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: she shot him and doesn't remember stabbing him. But what 44 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: she says is it was the fault of the media, 45 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, who set up a remote television station one 46 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: block away from the court. That is a direct quote 47 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: from these papers, one block away, and you taunted the 48 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: defense every night on your show you are pro prosecution, 49 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: and that you you taunted her, and that this led 50 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: to the jurors believing everything that you were saying, including 51 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: their family members, and that is why she got an 52 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: unfair trial and why she deserves to have this verdict, 53 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: which is guilty guilty of first degree murder for stabbing him, 54 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: slitting his throat, and shooting him in the head. And 55 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: she believes that this should be thrown out because of you. 56 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: You know, that's always hardening to hear, but I think 57 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: it had more to do with the evidence. What is 58 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: unusual to me right now is that she is still 59 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: blaming Travis Alexander. I mean to you, Dodger. Brian Russell, 60 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: you're the shrink lawyer, aunts like coologist. Your specialty is 61 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: about fatal vows. Now they met, and it's interesting. I'm 62 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: gonna go to Karen Stark on this in a moment. 63 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: But all of his friends and family that knew her 64 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: did not want him to be with her that And 65 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: I've questioned them about that repeatedly, saying what was it 66 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: about her? And they all said, I don't know. It 67 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: was just a freaky, hinky feeling. She was just we 68 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: just thought she was weird and crazy. There was just 69 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: something about her, you know, Dr Brian Russell. She's many 70 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: people believe beautiful. She's got a beautiful face. Many people 71 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: think she's got a beautiful body. I don't find her beautiful, 72 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: but many people do. She's got tons of people writing 73 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: her and sending her money behind bars. The thing is 74 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: when Travis Alexander, who I understand at the time was 75 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: a devout Mormon, got tangled up with Jodi Arius. At 76 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: some point he wanted to break it off. He said 77 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: things like he did not think they would ever get married, 78 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: he wanted to start dating other people. She would have 79 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: none of it. So she finds out he's going on 80 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: a trip to Cosumel with another woman, and that just 81 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: throws her into a fit, drives literally across the desert. 82 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: She's moved away with all the gas cans in her 83 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: trunk so she doesn't have to stop to use her 84 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: credit card or beyond a surveillance video at A seven eleven, 85 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: gets to his home. They have crazy fetish sex all day, 86 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: complete with photos which were played over and over and 87 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: over at trial. And then he still refuses to cancel 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: the Cosumel date, and when that happens, she stabs him 89 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: twenty nine times and shoots him in the head, leaving 90 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: his body to decompose in the shower. Help me out, 91 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, I'm glad you just gave that rundown, Nancy, 92 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: because one of the things that specifically said in this 93 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: appellate brief is that you had criticized this alleged expert 94 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: for the defense, this therapist whom I criticized also at 95 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: the time on the air, because she apparently knew nothing 96 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: about Travis Alexander or his relationship with Jodi Arias except 97 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: whatever Arius remember, a defendant facing the death penalty, somebody 98 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: highly motivated to lie had told her, Yet she goes 99 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: into court and she testifies that arius suffered from battered 100 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: woman's syndrome and PTSD. Let me just quickly address both 101 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: of those. First of all, I'm highly skeptical whenever I 102 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: hear battered woman's syndrome as a defense whereby women in 103 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: abusive relationships allegedly can't see any means of escape other 104 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: than killing the abuser alleged abuser, when in fact there 105 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: are alternative means of escape, calling fleeing, filing for divorce 106 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: for example. It's not a formally recognized diagnosis. It's not 107 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: supported by sound psychological data. Don't get me wrong, I 108 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: hate domestic violence, but the remedies not to allow an 109 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: alleged battered wife to be the judge, jury, and executioner 110 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: for the alleged batterer. You know, if she said she'd 111 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: killed him while he was beating her, there'd be a 112 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: self defense argument, but physical evidence from the scene clearly 113 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: suggested that didn't happen that way. I never saw solid 114 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: evidence that he'd ever beaten her. Then this PTSD thing, 115 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: which is, you know, a disordered psychological reaction to a 116 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: stressful event, that does not explain, in my opinion, the 117 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: gaps in her memory, alleged gaps for events surrounding the killing. 118 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: Killing somebody and claiming that the killing gave you PTSD 119 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: is like the Menendez brothers murdering their parents and then 120 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: crying about being orphaned. But more importantly, she recalled specifics 121 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: like what she ate and drank before and after, but 122 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: supposedly didn't remember the stabbing really well. Another thing regarding that, 123 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: let me address the better woman syndrome issue. When I 124 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: prosecuted Inner City, Atlanta, I also volunteered at the Batter 125 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: Women's Center, and it was a hidden location in Atlanta, 126 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: and I'm in the hotline. I firmly support the batter 127 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: Women's syndrome in many cases, this, however, is not one. 128 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: Let's just look at the facts. As you accurately point 129 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: out Dr. Brian Russell, there were many ways if it 130 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: were indeed true, which no one but Arias says. It's true. 131 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: They were broken up. She had moved away, hours away. 132 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: They were not living together. They were never married, they 133 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: never had children, nothing. They had a fling. He broke up, 134 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: she moved away, scorned, she left. She was living somewhere else, 135 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: had a brand new place to live, had a car 136 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: a job, the works, and they've been apart for a while. 137 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: How could this possibly be better women's syndrome when you 138 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: have no choice but to kill. While I do support 139 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: the batter women's syndrome as a defense, this, I agree 140 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: with you was not one of them. As a matter 141 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: of fact, I'm reading directly from the autopsy report. Travis 142 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: Saling's anders juggular vein. His throat was slit, the common 143 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: karnid artery, the trachea had been slashed. He had defensive 144 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: wounds on his hand. He may have even been dead 145 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: at the time she shot him in the head. Also, 146 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: the crime scene revealed that when he first was stabbed, 147 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: he realized he was dying, he stumbled to the bathroom 148 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: mirror and actually looked in the mirror as he was dying. 149 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: And we know this because of the blood evidence. There 150 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: were drops, not spatter, not throwback, not transfer, drops of 151 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: blood that dropped down from his neck and his nose 152 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: and his face onto the sink as he looked into 153 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: the mirror as he died, and he was left naked 154 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: and bloody, bleeding out in the shower. As a matter 155 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: of fact, it's really not even contested how he died, 156 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: listened to Jodi Arius at trial admitting she slit his throat. 157 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: Would you agree that you're the person who actually slit 158 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: Mr Alexander's throat? From here to here, yes, to Ashley 159 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: will Cut, veteran trial lawyer and judge, It gives me 160 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: no pleasure to replay the rendition of how Travis Alexander 161 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: was murdered. He didn't see it coming, He had no 162 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: idea what was about to happen. But we also know 163 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: Ashley that at the beginning she claimed that she wasn't there, 164 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: she had nothing to do with it at all. Then 165 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: when evidence turned up that she had been there, she 166 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: actually claimed that Ninja's showed up all dressed in black 167 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: and for no reason, burst into the home, stole nothing. 168 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: She ran and saved her in life, but they killed 169 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: Travis and left like shadows in the night. I mean, Ashley, really, 170 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: really so she was lying from the get go, obviously 171 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: with the story that she initially told with the ninjas. 172 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: But here's what I love about our justice system. During 173 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: this trial, it went from story to story to story 174 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: to story. But as you just played, finally on the 175 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: stand under oath, she admits she slit his throat period. Yeah, 176 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: and it just like this and just like that, and 177 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: then shot him, cleaned up the scene as best she could, 178 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: put a lot of clothes in the washer, including her 179 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: digital camera. Hello, And on the camera, to Karen Stark 180 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: were actual photos. They had been She had been taking 181 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: sex photos the whole day. Okay, but forget about that. 182 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: On the digital camera that she left in the washing machine, 183 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: our photos we think accidentally taken during Travis's murder. Karen Starr, 184 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: New York psychologist, what about that? Well, I mean, here's 185 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: somebody who says that she's suffering from PTSD and she 186 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: can't remember anything, but she's cleaning up, she took photos. 187 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: And this is a person who really is not only 188 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: a pathological liar, but has absolutely no guilt about anything 189 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: that happened and documented it as do it as it 190 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: was happening. Now, even if it was accidental, somehow she 191 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: knew that she should wash things up, clean them up, 192 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: despite the ninjas or whatever she was saying. And she 193 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: very clearly is a psychopath who committed this murder. There 194 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: is no doubt in my mind that she knew exactly 195 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: what she was doing and that it had to do 196 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: with rage, and jealousy and her inability to let go 197 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: of this man. Alexis Torres Chuck writer online dot com. 198 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: You also covered the case every single day. I was 199 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: in the courtroom almost every day and was broadcasting from 200 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: a couple of blocks away from the courthouse. The digital 201 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: camera evidence, to me is overwhelming. It places her there 202 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: at the time of the murder, in the room with Travis. 203 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: It does it's right up to and after she murders him. 204 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: There's there are pictures of him naked in the shower, 205 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: got the water running over him. He's looking directly at 206 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: the camera. These were not secret photos that he didn't 207 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: know were being taken. Then there's the picture of his 208 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: foot in the shower, and there's another picture of the 209 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: blood on the floor, and they're taking there's a time stamp, 210 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: so you can tell that they were taken just moments, 211 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: literally less than two minutes after he was alive in 212 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: the shower. She's taking pictures, and then he's dead. She 213 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: when she went into her friend z her spree killing 214 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: spree and stabbed him repeatedly. And the thing was it 215 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: she also shot him, but the bullet casing was found 216 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: on top of the blood. So what The evidence was 217 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: presented in court is that there's no way she shot 218 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: him first, otherwise that would be on the bottom and 219 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: be covered with blood. It happened afterwards, and it wasn't disturbed. 220 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: And this is everything that was shown on her camera. 221 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: Didn't take the camera with her, She stuck it in 222 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: the washing machine. She left it there. It was so 223 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: easy for everybody to find. One particular photograph is very convincing. 224 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: It is accidentally taken as Jodi Arius drags Travis's body 225 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: and it shows blood running down his neck. According to 226 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the prosecution actually displayed a very disturbing photo 227 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: they say was accidentally taken as she dragged Travis's body 228 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: through his home after stabbing him twenty nine times. Now, 229 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: the dark image, and I'm looking at it right now, Jackie. 230 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: Here it is that's of Travis, and it's of the 231 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: back of his head, part of his back and his arm, 232 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: and there's a blood pouring down his back, and there's 233 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: an obstruction in the foreground, and it is a leg 234 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: wearing sweatpants. So but what you do see is Travis's 235 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: body being dragged across the floor, covered in blood going 236 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: down his back. I mean Dr Brian Russell. It's on 237 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: her camera. How can you get away from the fact 238 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: that her own admission and her camera convicted her, not 239 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: me or anybody else. Well, that's right. It's crystal clear 240 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: to me that the evidence does not support any kind 241 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: of a self defense battered woman, any kind of argument 242 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: like that. The evidence is totally consistent with a woman 243 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: who felt narcissist entitlement to literally administer the death penalty 244 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: to a man who had scorned her. In her mind, 245 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: he'll have no fury like a woman. Scoring This case 246 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: certainly proves that. But you know, the overall thing about 247 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: this appeal that jumps out at me is that there's 248 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: allegation after allegation of media coverage biasing the public in it. 249 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: But it really doesn't even effectively allege how that media 250 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: coverage biased the jury, at least not in any identifiable way. 251 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: So I'm really not sure what the beef is with 252 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: not getting a fair trial because of the media coverage. 253 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: There's really no nexus in this appeal between the media 254 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: coverage and and reaching the jury. And if you think 255 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: about it, she didn't get the worst outcomes she could 256 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: have gotten, which you'd think was is what would have 257 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: happened if the jury had been so profoundly biased, you know, 258 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: to as she will caught a nearly four well four 259 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: hundred plus page brief. I mean, what about that? So, Nancy, 260 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: I stayed up last night and read the entire brief 261 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: because I was astounded at the length of it, the 262 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: facts that were in it. But let's boil it down 263 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: to this. The press coverage was inconsequential to the verdict, 264 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: a fundamental constitutional right, First Amendment right. Media has to 265 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: report right freedom of speech. And what really bothers me 266 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: in this case is, here is a defendant, Jody actually 267 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: is one who has consistently used her First Amendment right 268 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: freedom to speech to her benefit, and then she wants 269 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: to accuse the press of doing it in a way 270 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: that has um affected prejudice the jury. And I agree 271 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: completely that nexus isn't there. Well, Ashley, I'll always have 272 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: our time in court together when she shot a bird 273 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: at me. We'll always have Arizona, my happy memories of 274 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Jody Arius. But you know what, I have to say 275 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: that I've met an American Idol, because Jodi Aris did 276 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: win American Idol. Behind bars, take a listen, Oh holy 277 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: nat broadly, Sha, it is any of our dear siviors. Okay, 278 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: did you know about a recent law that could leave 279 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If 280 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: you've turned on the news lately, you know the Internet 281 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: has created a dangerous new world. Data breaches exposed private information, 282 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: there's a new cybersecurity threat every other day, and criminals 283 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: can sell the identity of you and your family on 284 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: the dark web. It's time you take the power back 285 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: by using a new website called truth Finder. Truth Finder 286 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: allows you to find out exactly what information exists about 287 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: you online. Have you gotten a speeding ticket, received a 288 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: lean from the I r S, for gotten about an 289 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: embarrassing social media profile. Truth Finder searches through millions of 290 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: public records, puts all that data together and one easy 291 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: to read report. Members get unlimited searches, so you can 292 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: also look up those close to you and make sure 293 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: they're not hiding something from their past. You also get 294 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: free Dart web monitoring to make truth Finder the ultimate 295 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: tool in identity protection. If your personal info appears for 296 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: sale on the dark web, you'll be the first to know. 297 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, enter your own 298 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: name get started. Did a Tampa woman try and manipulate 299 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: her daughter's face into a smile after she allegedly shoots 300 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: the daughter and her teen brother dead. This in a 301 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: articulously planned double murder. This mom, Julie Shinneker, living in 302 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: a beautiful upscale home, a mansion. When you look at 303 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: the overhead aerial shot of it, you see a pool 304 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: in the backyard, manicured green lawn, everything you could imagine 305 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: at the tip of your fingers. Why, why are these 306 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: two children dead? And why is she conniving to walk free? 307 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: With me? An all star lineup? Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, 308 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University and author of 309 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet. Renowned New York psychologist here and Stark, 310 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, founder of Child Crime Watch dot com, judge 311 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: and lawyer, Atlanta prosecutor Kenya Johnson, and joining me now 312 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: w f L A TV reporter Meredith and Sulo Meredith. 313 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: First two, you explain to me what police have learned. 314 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning with the death of the 315 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: little girl and teen boy. Colonel Parker Sheneger was serving 316 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: overseas he was stationed in Cutter and was unable to 317 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: reach his family. He flew back to the United States 318 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: and went to his home in New Tampa, very nice 319 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: neighborhood in Tampa, and walked into the home and couldn't 320 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: find anyone. He goes searching throughout the home and in 321 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: an upstairs bedroom he finds his sixteen year old daughter, Klix, 322 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: very well performing childhood school, involved in sports. But she 323 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: was found well, wait a minute, she was a straight 324 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: A student, she was a star athlete. I mean, I'm 325 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: looking at the pictures of the two children right now, 326 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, and they're beautiful. They obviously have had braces 327 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: on their teeth. They live in a beautiful home. And 328 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: what I find really significant about the death of Kaelix 329 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: the girl, the little girl, she's propped up. She had 330 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: been propped up at her computer doing her homework, Ashley 331 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: in that bazaar. And so you're right, this is a 332 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: case in which these are kids that any one of 333 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: us might see our our kids hanging out with and 334 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: friends of and doing well in school and doing well. 335 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: So how bizarre's this happens? And then she's propped up 336 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: like that, pretty sick go ahead, Meridith Sinceolo so Calix 337 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: was actually found propped up in bed. She had been 338 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: shot in the back of her head and uh, and 339 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: she was located in a bedroom away from where she'd 340 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: been shot. Colonel Sheneker then finds his son, thirteen year 341 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: old bow I want to I want to go back 342 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: to what you just said, Meredith Cincelo. That's really significant 343 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: and the crime scene, Meridue Cinceolo had just corrected me. 344 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: The body had been moved away from the computer. She's right, 345 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, what does that mean to you that 346 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: the mother took care rearranging things and kind of point 347 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: out one thing that's really key here. When they found 348 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: this young girl's body reclined on the bed, her body 349 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: was actually covered with a blanket. It was actually the 350 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: face was actually covered. And this is something that we 351 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: see in cases like this where if an individual is 352 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: known where they have a personal relationship, is called face covering. 353 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: They don't want to be able to look into the 354 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: eyes of the individual they've perpetrated this crime with. That 355 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: is signal. Take a listen to Colonel Parker Scheneger as 356 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: he's describing the conversation he had with his wife just 357 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: before he left for Afghanistan. I reminded her leaving in 358 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: a few days. Just wanted to make sure that everything 359 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: was okay. Um, are you gonna be okay with me 360 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: being gone for a couple of weeks? What did the 361 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: defendants saying? Well? And then I added on to that, 362 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: I said, if there's a problem, I can I can 363 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: ask Nancy to come in, or I can I can 364 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: find someone else to come in. The defendant at that 365 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: time look at me square in the iron and said 366 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: I got this. So that to me is in Stark 367 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: contrast here and start New York psychologists with what we 368 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: know was said later, But because the mother, Julie Schinneker, 369 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: states that she backhanded her daughter in the face for 370 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: quote being mauthi, the daughter says something like, you're not 371 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 1: my parent. You discussed me, okay. I would have been 372 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: mad about that too. I don't know if I would 373 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: have slapped him in the face. Though, Karen Stark, you 374 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: want to slap them in the face and you want 375 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: to kill them Nancy, I mean that's extreme. Yes, you 376 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: have to deal with teenagers and adolescents who begin to 377 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: talk back and have issues, but this is a case 378 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: of somebody who couldn't deal with the situation and took 379 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: matters into her own hands. As Joe Scott Morgan said, 380 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: this is somebody who was treated, her body was staged, 381 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: and that happens in a situation where you have a 382 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: personal relationship and despite the fact that you killed the person, 383 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: you're still caring enough to want to cover their face, 384 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: to put a blanket over them. That there's a personal 385 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: involvement here, you know. I want to revisit a that 386 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: scenario with me from w f L a TV investigative 387 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: journalists Meritis and Sulo. I want to because this is 388 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: very significant about how Calix's body is found. What is 389 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: the scenario police have have put together as to how 390 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: the teen girl was killed. What they found was that 391 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: Calix had been shot from behind in her head was 392 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: then shot in her mouth because as you as we've 393 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: mentioned Um Julie schenek Er, her mother was upset she 394 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: felt like her children were becoming mouthi children, so she 395 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: also shot Calix in the mouth. After she had shot 396 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: the child in the head at some point, she then 397 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 1: relocated the sixteen year old body into a bedroom and 398 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: then covered the child. And what we believe now is 399 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: that she also tried to cut a smile onto Kylix's face, 400 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: onto her mouth. That's how how the daughter was found dead. 401 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: What about the sun Bow? Thirteen year old Bow was 402 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: found in the family's vehicle. It appears that he also 403 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: had been shot in the back of the head and 404 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: in his mouth. He was bending down to move some 405 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: soccer equipment around. They were actually on their way to 406 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: soccer practice. It hadn't even gotten out of the driveway 407 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: when Julie Scheneker pulled out a gun and shot him 408 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: as he was leaning down, shot him in the back 409 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: of the head and then also shot him in his mouth. 410 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: His body was left in the vehicle. Joe Scott Morgan, 411 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: death investigator, You and I have seen so many crimes scenes, 412 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: so many homicides. There's something about this case. It just 413 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: it just makes me sick in the bottom of my stomach. 414 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: I mean it feels that way about all of the 415 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: cases that we cover, especially the ones regarding children. But 416 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: this case, I mean these children, Yeah, they're a couple 417 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: of years older. They remind me so much of John 418 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: David and Lucy. Yeah, and that's the tragedy here, because 419 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: it's not just the case itself, Nancy, is not just 420 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: their brutal homicides. It's the fact that these kids were 421 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: living I think, in my opinion, at least from what 422 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: we're piecing together, in a tortured environment. Um, torturous just 423 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: day in and day out. There's evidence that that this 424 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: person had been detailing in a diary the wrongs that 425 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: her children had done to her. Uh and oh, hold on, 426 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: hold on just a moment. You're right, Joe Scott Morgan 427 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: too meritis. Since ulo w f L, a t V 428 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: investigative journalist, tell me about the diary the journal Joe 429 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: Scott referred to. That's right, Um, Julie Senneker was keeping 430 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: a diary, and she would repeatedly right in that diary 431 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: that her children were mouthy and that she wanted to 432 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: m basically silence them, get rid of these children that 433 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: she felt were in some way turning against her. Uh. 434 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: It appears now that her husband was starting to pull 435 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: away from her, and she had the impression also that 436 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: her children were pulling away from her, that they were 437 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: becoming mouthie, and she wanted to silence them. She wanted 438 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: to to stop this. Um in her own warped mind. 439 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: I think she she felt like, uh, if they were 440 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: going to pull away from her, she was going to 441 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: make sure that didn't happen. And she was also going 442 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: to make make sure that they would never be able 443 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: to mouse back to her again. And this is this 444 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: is what she did, and this is what she detailed 445 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: in the diary, including following their murders, detailing exactly what 446 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: she had done to the children. Right now, mother of 447 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: two Julie Shaneker planning, conniving, scheming to walk free. This 448 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: after both of her children, Bow and Calix, found dead 449 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: by gunshot wounds in their multimillion dollar home. Married Cincelo 450 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: joining me w f L a t V investigative journalists. 451 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,239 Speaker 1: You know this mother had it all, Meredith, I mean, 452 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: describe their lifestyle. She was a very brilliant woman. She 453 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: was in the military, she had become a translator. She 454 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: was career military. Her husband, Um was doing very well, 455 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: also a member of the military. That the neighborhood that 456 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: they lived in here in New Tampa, very beautiful homes, 457 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: very nice neighborhood. Um, they had everything that they could 458 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: ever ask for. The children did very well. We've mentioned 459 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: that they both were straight A students, they were involved 460 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: in sports, great members um within their schools um and 461 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: all of that, it appears um led up to her 462 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: murdering the children in what clearly was premeditated, down to 463 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: her going out and purchasing a gun, um eating the 464 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: weight period later saying that oh, I was just going 465 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: to commit suicide with that. Many people have argued that 466 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: the mother just snapped. But take a listen to Generald Tanso, 467 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: who owns Lock and Load gun store. This is where 468 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: Julie Scheneker buys the murder weapon before she murders her children, 469 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: and then try to tell me this was not a 470 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: calculated plan. Listen, she was an average person, easy going, 471 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: very nice, smiling, happy and just a normal normal customer 472 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: too for us. Anyways, you know, did she tell you 473 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: why she felt she needed a gun. Um? She said 474 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: she needed a weapon because there was some crime in 475 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: her neighborhood. Now we're Julie Senneker's hands shaking when she 476 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: came into the store. No, she was not. She was 477 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: not shaking at all. She had a very slight shaker 478 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: in one of her hands. But that's more. With a 479 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: lot of people that come to the shop, a lot 480 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: of older people shake, I mean nothing to be alarmed 481 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: the boat. You know. So, when when you sold Julie 482 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: Schinniker the murder weapon, did you have any reason to 483 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: believe she had a mental illness, that she was insane, 484 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: that she was drunk or high, any raising you felt 485 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: you should not sell her a gun? Not at all, 486 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: not at all. In fact, did you find it unusual 487 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: for a woman to be buying a gun. We saw 488 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: guns to women every day, and again we kind of gun. 489 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: What kind of gun did you say she bought? Was 490 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: a Smith and Wesson bodyguard? And did she buy ammunition? 491 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: She bought ammunition? To correct when she left? What was 492 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: her demeanor? Um, she was very nice, very very good, 493 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: very personable, smiling, happy. In fact, is Tennis, she shake 494 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: your hand when she left. That was on the day 495 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: of the pickup. Yeah, that was on took my hands 496 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: and goodbye and everything was fine. That is Gerald Tan 497 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: says speaking to me on hl And, the owner of 498 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: Lock and Load gun shop in Tampa, and he talks 499 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: about interacting with Julie Schinneker the day she bought the 500 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: murder weapon she then used to kill her children. Mary's 501 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: Ceceilio W F L A. T. V. Meredith, tell me 502 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: what you know about her purchase of the murder weapon. Well, 503 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: she had complained that she had to wait. She didn't 504 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: like that there was a three day waiting period. That's 505 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: what she wrote in her journal, because she had said, 506 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: I wanted this to be a Saturday massacre. She wanted 507 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: to allegedly kill the children and herself on a particular day, 508 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: and she was upset that that could not happen because 509 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: she had to wait to get the gun. So do 510 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: you hear this, Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor. She goes, she 511 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: makes a trip to buy the gun, the murder weapon. 512 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: She has the wherewithal to complain, and she doesn't went 513 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: away because it's messing up her plan in for a 514 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: Saturday massacre. How could she possibly claim insanity on a 515 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: case that was so well planned. Absolutely, we're looking at premeditation, 516 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: we're looking at knowledge of wrongdoing. Um. She clearly documented 517 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: her actions this. The public would be amazed at how 518 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: many instances where people tell on themselves. She carefully thought 519 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: this out and even had the nerve to be angry 520 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: and upset about it. We have the apple thought so 521 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: to come back and say that she was insane at 522 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: the time that she committed the offense. Uh, and that 523 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: this was a missed opportunity for a defense to exonerate 524 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: her is a stretch and unlikely to prevail in that 525 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: motion for nutraal right now, Julie shannonker Scheming, conniving, plotting 526 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: to walk free, her two children dead, Maritus Cecilo w 527 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: f l A TV. What about the death the details 528 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: of the death, the shooting death of the little boy 529 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: Beau So he was shot in the family vehicle, UM 530 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: on his way to soccer practice. Julie was to take 531 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: him to soccer practice. They had just gotten in the vehicle. 532 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 1: He leaned over, apparently to adjust some of his gear, 533 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: and that's when she actually pulled out the gun and 534 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: shot him. And there was some testimony in the courtroom 535 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: that perhaps Uh he had noticed that she had pulled 536 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: out a gun and and that comes from her journal. UM. 537 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: And she did shoot him in the head, also shot 538 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: him in the mouth, then left his body in the 539 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: vehicle because apparently she was unable to UM carry his 540 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: his body into the home and then placed him upstairs. 541 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: UM and do as she did with Kaylix, where UH 542 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: cover him with UM with his blankets, put him in 543 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: his bed. Um his body was left in the vehicle, 544 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: but he did die the same way as his older 545 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: sister did. Know that the boy didn't even see it coming. 546 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: Can we determine that, just Scott Morgan, Uh, yeah, this 547 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: this the speaks volumes to her planning. And if we 548 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: if you just go back and look at the daughter, 549 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, how did they determine that? Well, a lot 550 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: of blood spatter evidence probably, remember they talked about how 551 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: she was in a chair and then she was moved 552 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: to the bed. My thought is is that the investigators 553 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: at the scene, when they began to look at this 554 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: young man's body, they could tell the attitude that he 555 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: was in. Now, just as Meredith mentioned, this lady had 556 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: documented in her diary that he had an awareness potentially, 557 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: and that adds a whole another level of heart to 558 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: this Nancy when you think about it, he saw his 559 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: mama draw a gun on him. If that is in 560 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: fact the case, I don't know. You know, Uh, this 561 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: lady seems to document everything, which you know, and my 562 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: mind goes to intent and planning and all these sorts 563 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: of things, and then she shoots this young man in 564 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: the back of the head. I don't think she's surprised him. 565 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: I think that there was something rolling up to this. 566 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: There was something leading up to this, and again just 567 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: this horrific environment these kids had to live in. Well, 568 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: apparently she claimed they were mouthy. What does that mean, Meredith, Well, 569 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: she had been writing in her journal that she felt 570 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: like they had started talking, you know, talking back to her. Um. 571 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: She noticed that there was an email apparently sent from 572 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: their father to the children that she was not allowed 573 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: to see uh as she perhaps thought that he was 574 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: planning to leave with the children. Um. We don't know 575 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: the contents of that email, but I guess in her 576 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: mind she was developing this concept that the family was 577 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: leaving her and perhaps they were getting mouth dear to her, 578 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: and she was going to stop all of that. However, 579 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: she did write in her journal after she had killed 580 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: the children, UM, that her and Bow were going to 581 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: have it uh and that maybe Calix would join her there. 582 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: She had a very bad relationship with Calix as as 583 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: we learned in the testimony at the trial, but she 584 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: was still had a decent relationship with her son Um 585 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: and so again she felt like the two of them 586 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: would go to heaven together. And you know, perhaps Calix 587 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: would join them there as well, right because the little 588 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: girl is the bad one. Right now, what can you 589 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: tell me, Meridith Cecilo about de facts previously being in 590 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: the home one time after an incident where Kaelix stated 591 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: to other people that her mom had backhanded her, right, 592 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: and there were details of that that came out during 593 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: the court trial that Calix had complained that her mother 594 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: had backhanded her for being mouthie um because there were 595 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: no other documented efforts or or a history of the 596 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: family needing assistance. Uh. That was one of those things 597 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,760 Speaker 1: that was added to a long file um of Julie 598 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: Scheneker's actions, not necessarily her actions in regards to musing 599 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: her children, but her history of behavior that seemed to 600 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: be um essentially bipolar, very manic, very highs and lows, 601 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: and there was a growing concern over her behavior. Julie 602 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: Seneger had a history of chronic mental illness and it 603 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: appeared that her family noticed so that she was literally 604 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: coming off the rails. Um. There were concerns within the 605 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: family about her mental health and all of that, it 606 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: appears um led up to behavior that seemed to be 607 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: turning more towards abusing her children. Julie Schenneker, now conniving 608 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: to walk free after both of her children found dead 609 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: in their luxurious Tampa home, We learned that she kept 610 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: a very detailed journal. It reveals chilling information about the 611 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: murders of her two children. In the hours after police 612 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: say she murder her children, She then, after she murders them, 613 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: picks up a pen and confesses an a spiral bound notebook. 614 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: She said, quote, I oft bow in the van often. 615 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: He's thirteen years old. I mean, josephs got Morgan forensics expert. 616 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: I offed him. That's mob talk. I mean, why would 617 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: you refer to your son that way? I don't know, 618 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: it sounds like an episode of the Sopranos. You know, 619 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: I'm no psychologist, but it sounds like she's gotten to 620 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: the point where she's just it's about the mission she's on, 621 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: and she's completely detached herself from from, you know, any 622 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: kind of compassion towards these children, even though she's saying 623 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: that he's gonna, you know, he's he's gonna join her 624 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: in in heaven. Uh, that's you know, who cares? Who 625 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: cares at this point? But what we do care about 626 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: is what kind of picture this paints. She's gone into 627 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: great details. She's playing this thing. She's even talked about 628 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: being angry about the waiting period to be able to 629 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: purchase his hand. Listen to this, Listen to this. Joe, 630 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: Scott and Karen start weigh in. She says, quote off 631 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: the bow in the van, she shot him at close 632 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: range into it was into the son's head. The next 633 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: shot was to the mouth. Quote he is mouthy mouth. Karen, 634 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, this is the case where she may have 635 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: been bipolar, but there's no doubt, according to the law, 636 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: that she knew the difference between right and wrong. So 637 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: she set up a paranoid case where these kids are 638 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: working against her and knew exactly what she was doing, 639 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: and then confess to all of it. So there is 640 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: no way that she can prove insanity in this case. 641 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: It doesn't I can't imagine that she'll ever be able 642 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: to get away with that too. Kenya Johnson, Atlanta felony prosecutor. 643 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: Apparently Schenniker's notebook um depicts her her own notebook as 644 00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: a woman furious who vented out all of her anger 645 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: onto her family, including her two children. She had been 646 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: about ten years career in the military. She loved it 647 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: to raise her two children, and then became angry, furious 648 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: at Keelix and Bou for becoming quote her words, is 649 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: not mine, sassy, so she killed them. Daniel, I'm so 650 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: glad that my parents didn't take the stand. Teenagers are 651 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: known to be mouthy, and this is nothing out of 652 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: the ordinary. But the answer is not to murder your 653 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: own children, even if you hope to meet them again 654 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: in the afterlife under different circumstances. That's the only insane 655 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: part about that rationale. However, the fact that she plotted, 656 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: she documented, she took substantial steps towards committing this crime. 657 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: She researched how to do this or what is the 658 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: best way to to kill her children. Um, these are 659 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: all things that can be used against her in court, 660 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: and we're likely used against her and shows that she 661 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: had this intense um this and I can see that 662 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: the jury would not be very sympathetic or a judge 663 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,760 Speaker 1: because anyone that has a child has had a mouthew 664 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: teenager or knows of one, and that's just not the 665 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: way to deal with this. UM. With child protective services 666 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: being involved with some allegations of perhaps some abuse. This 667 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: shows that she may have been uh separating from reality 668 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: to an extent, but not quite to the extent that 669 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: it justifies murder of her own children. This is very 670 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: egregious and shocking to the public. You know. Another issue is, 671 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: although she murdered both of her children, the girl killing specifically, 672 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 1: this mom is so angry at her daughter for criticizing 673 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: what she makes for dinner, maybe the clothes she wears, 674 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: or her behavior. I don't know what this means. I'm 675 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: sure aren't shrank. Karen Stark can weigh in on it, 676 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: but I don't like it when the children talk back 677 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: to me. On the other hand, I don't get crazy 678 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 1: about it because I'm glad they have their own mind. 679 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: I'm glad they're independent. I mean, I don't like them 680 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: talking back to me, but I really take it with 681 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: a box of salt. Children are not going to agree 682 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: with their parents. They're growing up. As much as I 683 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: don't like it, they are and it's just one of 684 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: the obstacles you face it. It's part of the package 685 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: of raising children. According to Julie Shinneker, she described how 686 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: she snuck up behind her daughter while her straight. A 687 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: daughter was at the computer doing homework, murdering her giving 688 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: Calix the quote saying treatment she had given her son 689 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: one bullet to the head and one bullet to the mouth. 690 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: You know what that you don't need me to tell you. 691 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: Listen to Julie Schenneker herself, ABC News Tampa. This young 692 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: thing around her came up and went through the ceiling 693 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: and then I picked her up and put her in 694 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: bed and cover it up. And I got her up 695 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: and I hugged her, and um she didn't hug me back. 696 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: And I laid her down and I kissed her goodnight, 697 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: and I covered her up. And then I realized I 698 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: forgot to cover up bow and it was January, so 699 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,839 Speaker 1: I went and got a blanket and I covered him 700 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: up and kissed him good night. And I didn't see 701 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: any blood at all at all. After hearing evidence at trial, 702 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: take a listen to what a Chinnaker Grard tells me 703 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: hln Well. The eviness was actually kind of overwhelming, particularly 704 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: the journal. The journal was this kind of feel with 705 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,399 Speaker 1: a lot of hate. Um Well filled out a lot 706 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: of it. You can tell her she actually was playing 707 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: in quite a ways out exactly what she was going 708 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,399 Speaker 1: to do it and how she was going to do it. Um, Yeah, 709 00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: the defense can never prove. Yeah, the sanity plead that 710 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: she didn't know right from wrong. And that's really the 711 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: biggest thing. The whole thing was this kind of a 712 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: whole said said. After the stunning guilty verdicts, we are 713 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: now learning that Julie Schinneker has no regrets, no regrets 714 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:24,919 Speaker 1: whatsoever about murdering her two children, according to People Magazine, 715 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:31,359 Speaker 1: a jaw dropping discovery. After Julie Shinneker says she would 716 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,240 Speaker 1: do the same thing all over again, she was asked 717 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: if she regretted the shooting, and she says, no, I 718 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: saved them. She also claims that the gun that she 719 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: purchased was for suicide, not to hurt her children, that 720 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: she only meant to kill herself, not them. Funny how 721 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: it always turns out that way, Karen Stark, I knew 722 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: you were going to say that, Nancy, because we hear 723 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: so many stories where people say I bought this gun. 724 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,080 Speaker 1: I maybe I was going to kill them, but I 725 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: was definitely going to kill me. And yet they don't 726 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: wind up shooting themselves. Miraculously, they managed to survive and 727 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: kill off their families. So I don't buy that for 728 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: a second that she bought the gun to kill herself. 729 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: We are now learning that Shinnaker is seeking and very 730 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: possibly will receive, a new trial. The basis in emotion 731 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: filed by Shinnaker is that her lawyers were in effective, 732 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,800 Speaker 1: making multiple mistakes, such as leaving out a critical video 733 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,280 Speaker 1: of evidence of her at the hospital after the incident 734 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: to show to prove to the jury that she was 735 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 1: insane at the time. She's also claiming that the jurors 736 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: were predisposed to find her guilty, that they had already 737 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 1: made their minds up on day one, and that some 738 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: of them slept through parts of the trial. Now we 739 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: know that now infamous video was taken hours after the 740 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: arrest where she is shaking, uncontroled allably. But Joe Scott, 741 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: she wasn't shaking when she took aim at her children, 742 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: all right. She's pretty good shot, Yep. She was right 743 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 1: on target Nancy completely and seems like she was in 744 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: full control of her faculties because you know, after this, 745 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: she went back, you know, manipulated the scene from the 746 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 1: initial shooting, rearranged things just like she wanted it. And 747 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: wasn't that the way it is? She wanted everything to 748 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: be her way in this particular case, and she got it. Unfortunately, 749 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: you had all of these lives that were just absolutely 750 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: ripped to shreds now. If a judge grants her emotion 751 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: for a new trial, she will be brought back to 752 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: Tampa to argue in front of the judge. We wait 753 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: as justice and foals Nancy Grace Crime story, signing off, 754 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:53,399 Speaker 1: goodbye friend. Did you know a recent law can leave 755 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If 756 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: you've turned all the news lately, you know the internet 757 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: has created a dangerous new world. 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Truth Finder searches millions 763 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 1: of public records, assembling the data together in one report. 764 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: Members get unlimited searches, so you can also look up 765 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 1: those close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 766 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, enter your own name, 767 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:39,720 Speaker 1: get started