WEBVTT - Ep. 109: Hunter Harassment 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.400 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:17.360 severely fog bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:33.320 You can't predict anything, o, Pat Durkin and Doug Drn. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:39.000 I guess not like you should be cousins. Almost No, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:40.919 you know, I can see a little bit a lot 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:42.839 of skin up on top of your head. That's gonna say. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.479 The ball guys are on one side of the room. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:46.720 The guys with hair on the other side. Oh yeah, 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.360 I don't like to get close to the ball guys. Robot. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.200 I think you're safe, Steve, I'm really not. My wife 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.400 doesn't think that I am. Now you're safely. My grandfather, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:03.000 my grandpappy, Glenn Coral, who was an avid muskie angler. 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.720 I don't even want to tell you his one of 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.280 the tricks, the muskie tricks he told me about, but 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.880 I will tell you from a bygone era. He was 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:13.399 telling me when I was a little boy. He liked 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.760 to fish muski. He like to fish crop ease. He 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.600 was telling me A good way to catch muskies is 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.280 It's just kind of terrible trying to think of how 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.400 to bring it up. I think just say it, man, Okay. 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:32.200 Glenn Coral my Perturn. My maternal grandfather, who was a 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.160 farmer and then went on to be to work for 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.920 a fire department. UM used to fish muskies by basically 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.679 harness rigging chipmunks, as he explained it to me, harness 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:48.400 rigging chipmunks which he would like deliver out into the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:56.120 water by canoe and then and then go back and 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.360 fish it. Yeah, you remember what it said. I'd like 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:05.200 to ask the animal rights as well. And then too, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.680 you think about when we were kids. We didn't know 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.880 it's the illegal, but we used to lip poock leopard frogs. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.359 Oh every kid does that. I don't know if they 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.520 still do. But they were doing that when they mean, 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.679 and we was doing that. And so I ever caught 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.239 a fish that way though? Oh I did, And you're 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.919 I caught I do at night? I thought I catched 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.639 these big large mouth bass. When I caught was big 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:35.000 bullheads mean trophy bull fourteen fifteen trophy They hanging on 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.880 your wall next year, next hanging in your house. No, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.800 but but we eat them on they were good. Yeah, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.720 that point being Glen, my paternal maternal grandfather was a balder. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.120 And you guys, well maybe not his balls does but 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.920 and uh, I suppose you like you catch it right, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.360 you catch it from your maternal grandpa. My wife thinks 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:02.639 I'm thinning out now my barber doesn't. You can tell 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.360 your wife for me that. When I was in boot 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.680 camp at age nineteen, my hair was already later than 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.080 years as far as thickness, and they shaved my head 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.600 off and then I came back my hair was like 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.360 yours is. Now that's my ninet team. By twenty nine, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:23.280 it was going fast. Yeah. Now, my bro uh, you know, 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.760 I got brothers who like staggered out ahead of me 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:27.920 a year and a half, eighteen months out and then 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.360 eighteen more months out. So I look at their heads 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.519 a lot. It changed their heads changed. Man, this was 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:40.120 a little yeah. Yeah, I got those widows speaks. Um. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.240 You know. One quick question the guy wrote in A 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.400 UFO researcher just wrote in is that a real thing? 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.880 Someone he's claiming to be? One? YEA like to say, 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.480 you're like an ex researcher, Like, how hard is it 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:59.080 to prove it? He like he didn't have I don't 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.080 know that he has. Like if he walked into his house, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.320 would he have like the little degrees hanging on the 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.040 wall but I think that when I see that, I'm like, 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:11.240 I think you could be I think that you could 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:17.640 be a UM, I'm guessing he's a hobbyist. There's not 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.640 a lot of credentials that go along. Yeah, because I 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.000 think that you if you were someone who was like 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.200 if you were an astronomer, for instance, and you were 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.839 curious about life on other planets, I don't think you'd 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.719 write dudes like me to say, hey man, I'm a 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.320 UFO researcher, and as part of my research, I thought 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.480 i'd ask you, fellas who spent a lot of time 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.680 out in the woods, if you've seen any evidence lately, 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:45.440 which is what this email was. Pat Um actually wrote 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.520 a part of a chapter of a book one time 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.600 on this guy his trail cameras up here north of 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.040 here in Buffalo Cony, and as trail cameras picked up 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.880 a UFO. UM, can you stop from it? When you 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.960 say that? Do you use it like UFO like lower 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:07.840 case or UFO like upper case upper case abbreviation? No? No No, No. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.039 What I mean by that is if you see something 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.039 flying and you can't identify it, that's that's a UFO. 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.839 I think of that as a UFO lower case when 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:20.000 someone says like I saw uh a ufo and they 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.000 mean by that they mean not that they were not 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:23.840 able to identify it, but they mean that it was 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.840 a thing carrying aliens around. Definitely think of that as 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.320 you know a fellow that caught an upper case UFO 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.760 like an alien spacecraft on his trail camp. Definitely. Yeah, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.680 I wrote about it. I can even I'll have to 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.279 send you a copy of it. Just tell basically it was. 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.320 He just create picture of a doll in front of 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.400 a Chiel camera. Then in the back way in the 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.400 back you can see the distance a V shaped object, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.280 and that V shaped object moved in those in those pictures. 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:01.080 It a series of pictures and then, coincidentally, about in 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.000 that same time period, by a week before a week after, 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.200 I can't remember the specifics, there were reports by other 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.000 people in the area seeing this Uh it's only a 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.640 wedge shaped object that would pick up an halass out 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:17.160 of there. And this one guy taught the story about 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.800 these guys came flying down the road scared all their mind. 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.599 They've been driving and had seen this thing. And then 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.560 Tom was checking his trail cameras and Tom checks his 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.440 tail cames on his computer. He watches those pictures and 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.200 he's always seeing stuff and he knows his object back 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.720 there and it was read about dawn and this thing 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.120 actually did move in those pictures where you can see 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.680 it's not something that was a spec showed up in 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.760 the same spot, is actually something in a movement. Pat, 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:47.800 do you believe that? Um, I'm not a don't don't. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.760 I'm not asking you if you think that there is 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:55.400 life on other planets? Okay, okay. My brother was recently 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.520 explained to me that the number of other planets is 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:05.800 it's a imagine a one with I think something like 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:11.520 seventeen or twenty zeros after it. Mhm. He's a statistician 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.040 and he says, with that many planets, there is one 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.280 where there is a eight foot tall furry person who 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.600 is a smuggler in a spaceship, like there's that many planets. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.320 I don't know if I buy that, but I'm not 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:28.800 asked if you think there's live in our planets? Do 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.560 you think that right now there are a there are 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.840 people from other planets in amongst us flying around in 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.360 ships or do you think that he thinks that or 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:44.080 do you think that the guy thinks that. Um, I 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.320 think they're pretty well convinced they saw something. But I 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.120 guess the working theory is was it some kind of 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.760 military test, because because um, Camp Ripley isn't that far away. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:08:00.040 Camp McCoy isn't that far away, there's possibility. But I 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.200 guess to your brother's comment, though, I think I would 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.760 argue that one bit the trouble you wind up and 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.320 this is way off topic you from with Jared Diamond. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.000 Jared Diamond has a thing where he I don't want 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.840 to mutilate his argument too much, but but he gets 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:21.440 into like the idea that we would have contact with 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:27.559 another group. Ah and you imagine that. So the Earth 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:34.520 four billion years old? Okay? Um, And if you pictured 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:40.040 the Earth's history like stretch your arms out as far 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.480 as you can stretch them out. Okay, that's the Earth's 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.360 history on a on a timeline, you could remove human 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:53.800 history with one stroke of a nail file, meaning here's 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.079 this planet. And planets are ephemeral, they come and go, 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.559 here's this planet whose timeline is that long? But one stroke. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.240 This isn't McPhee. John McPhee's the guy that brought up 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.160 this that you could remove human history at the stroke 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.800 of a nail file. But that's like, how on this planet, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.280 which is an ephemeral sort of thing, that we've had 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.920 that little human history. Now, however, you begin to define 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.359 the beginning of human history like sort of the fashionable 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.800 answer used to be the anatomically and behaviorally modern humans 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.720 have been around for seventy five thousand years, and people like, 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.360 oh no, anatomically and behaviorally modern humans have been around 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.760 for a hundred fifty years. But whatever it is, let's 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.520 just say we have a hundred thousand years of anatomically 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.480 and behaviorly modern humans where you can take one of them, 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.360 a person from a hundred thousand years ago, dress them 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:46.080 up and in our duds, and they would and bring 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.440 them up in a modern family, and they would somehow 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:55.600 like pass as a personally wouldn't be inconspicuous. Okay, Um, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.760 we've got that long hundred thousand years of that, but 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:06.040 it's it's been And our ability to electronically transmit messages 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.800 has been brief. Okay. Our ability to broadcast a message out, 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.360 so you've been up to it for a hundred years, 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.400 which is generous. Do you'd be able to broadcast a message? 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:28.720 So imagine now the trouble of having another planet, having 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:33.840 another planet's life cycle coincide with that. So not that 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.600 there's not other life. There is something that looks like 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.559 a chipmunk like my grandfather's muskie fish and bait. Okay, 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.960 there's another planet that has a chipmunk. But to have 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.480 it be that that scaled out that you one taking 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:53.199 the assumption that life leads to a form of leads 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.840 to a thing that is curious about life on other planets, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.960 or leads to a thing capable of having the face 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.560 or belief that there are other things out there, which 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.280 is a new idea here, and have it be that 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.240 it lined up perfectly and led to the same place 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.280 where we in the same place in the same time, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:20.800 have the same interest and mechanisms to do so to 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.960 make contact with one another. It becomes very difficult. It 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:30.240 becomes very difficult to picture it. Mhm. So the dude 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.040 the deer hunter with the trail camera. When I see that, 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:38.320 my mind doesn't go to, oh, I'm gonna explain this 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:44.600 as an extraterrestrial presence. My mind goes to the hundreds 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:50.520 of other things that it unknown, things that it could be. Yeah, 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.360 But to get to the guy's questions. I was out 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:57.319 running mink traps with guy by the name of Carl, 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.640 and I was in high school and we saw UFO 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.080 out and swamp checking mink traps, and I remember Carl 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:07.520 looked at me and said, I'm not even gonna tell 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:15.520 anybody about that. Yeah. I think of it as a 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.520 UFO cat lower case, but it was a flying object. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:26.600 I was unable to identify three lights. H Well, it's 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.839 kind of swirling quality to him. Well, you for the 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:36.800 mysterious lights up in the up west of only the 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.200 ones that come from like drump drivers. It was just 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.679 was just legend up in the up and many people 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.439 have seen it. Nothing unusual to see it where you um. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.400 I think it's west of a little place called paul Myra. 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.079 I think it is. But anyways, up off forty five 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.360 going west off in the Up of Michigan, and the 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.000 legend is at this light that appears at night is 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.760 the lantern of an old guy in the back of 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.520 a railroad car from Earth, from from Earth. But it's 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.840 a mysterious light from Earth. Yeah, yeah, a ghost basically, 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:08.559 And it freaks people out and they go up there 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.360 and they hear about this. You know this mysterious ghost 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.600 and this mysterious light and they go look at and yep, 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.720 it's there. And then no one, no one at all 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.880 those time, has ever been able to explain where that 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.840 light comes from. Just odd some kind of physical occurrence obviously, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.320 but no one can explain it. What do you think 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.000 about all that, Doug, I it's just uh, feeling like 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.080 it's two o'clock in the morning after a grateful Dead show. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:38.480 As soon as all right, I think we gave that 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:48.320 guy the UFO researcher excuse me, the credential UFO researcher, Yanni, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.040 who who's can you? Can you explain the guy? Can 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.840 you explain that your buddy, you got the wrong piece 0:13:54.840 --> 0:14:00.679 of paper? Oh? Can you explain the story how this 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.920 guy like how we got to know him? Or no? 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.959 Tell the story? Oh yeah, for sure it can't, he 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.959 wrote in He actually he contacted me first before he 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.720 wrote us a story, because he was listening to us 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.720 talking about salt bait and the legalities around that. If 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.400 you got caught hunting over, you know, a chunk of salt, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.560 then if it was yours or not, you knew it 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.520 was there or not, you know, and how the law 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.240 would deal with it. So oh yeah, you know what, 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:33.920 hold that pick it back up a minute. But I 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.200 did the We just we're talking about how Alabama made 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.720 that rule that there used to be like no bait, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.320 and it was like, okay, if you're a hundred yards 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.880 from your bait and you can't see the bait, if 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.160 it's behind, if like if it's out of sighting and 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.480 a hundred yards away, then it's okay. So then dudes 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.560 started putting bait on the other side of hay bales 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.680 a hundred yards away because they couldn't see the bait 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.480 and it was a hundred yards away. Well, just so 0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:05.600 happened that um Alabama just legalized baiting for it came 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.320 out because they wanted to find a more efficient way 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.120 to kill hogs and they got a real hog problem 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.720 in Alabama. So they're like legal. But then they rolled 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.400 in you can bait for deer and hoggs in Alabama, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.680 full on balls out, much of the chagrin of many 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.200 white tail managers. You can now bait. They're so like 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.040 one hammer dealing with the spread of infectious diseases and 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.320 tear herds, and one thing we damn sure no is 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.000 the best way to get infectious diseases to jump around 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.360 is to invite a bunch of animals to rub noses 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:37.640 and a feed pile. But they legalized baiting. What's funny 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.640 is you have to buy a baiting license because the 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.920 Fish and Game Department was bummed about all the revenue 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.680 they would be losing from being able to give people 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:52.760 from giving citations for baiting. They were making revenue off 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.840 fines for baiting, and they're like, we're gonna lose the 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.800 revenue we have from it being illegal. There's a plant 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:02.960 to it with revenue from happening to buy a baiting stamp. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:12.320 I'm not this is not a joke. Go ahead, it's 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:19.440 just it. But it's just yeah. I think it definitely 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.760 comes from the from the hog thing. And then there's 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.760 certain deer dudes and they're like, well, we got too 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.440 many deer, we need to kill more. And then people 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.640 like you really got too many deer is because everybody 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.040 wants to shoot big, giant, huge bucks. No one wants 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:35.000 to kill those. They had the highest deer densities, some 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.200 of the highest deer dancers in the country. You're allowed 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.440 to kill like I hunted Alabama the late nineties, and 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.800 you could get a dear day way like then. It's 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.880 more than that. Now we went down and just like 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.000 cold rolled in and hunted Tuskege National Forest and killed 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:54.520 a bunch of bucks. M go ahead, ye, speaking of 0:16:54.640 --> 0:17:00.680 speaking of baiting, speaking of baiting. So he contact me 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:06.120 and said, I got a good baiting story. He said 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.159 he and body were hunting ducks in North Carolina about 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:14.280 fifteen years ago, and uh, all over the general area. 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.400 The hunting was pretty slow. Um, but they had plenty 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.600 of time. There had plenty of time to scout, and 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.680 they scouted hard and they found a spot that was 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.639 holding some ducks. So they made a plan come back 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.800 the next morning. Um. It was near houses, but not 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.040 close enough to be dangerous, um, but definitely close enough 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.200 to where the houses could hear the shots. I think, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.120 you know, there's plenty of duck hunting spots like that. UM. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:42.639 I know that when I'm at my in laws in 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.040 North Carolina over the holidays. Uh, you know, they live 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.199 on the Intercoastal Waterway, and I mean it's NonStop, almost 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.680 all day long. You just hear, you know, as the 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.720 birds are flying up and down the inter Coastal there. 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:04.040 Um anyways, Um, so they're they're shooting away, having some action, 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.720 and all of a sudden they look over and there's 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.359 a woman standing on a pier with a megaphone and 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:15.800 she's yelling at them, um that she's already called the 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:21.440 game warden because they're hunting over bait. Well, she doesn't 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.600 want them hunt. No, she doesn't want him hunting. She's 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.160 calling the game warden though she knows they're hunting over bait. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.400 They don't know they're hunting over bait. So um, he says, 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.359 they shipped their pants and uh, they're wondering what to do, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.320 and in no time, the game wardens pulling up. The 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:43.000 woman gets in a canoe and paddles over and tells 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.480 the game warden that's now with them and there their ducks, 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.520 that she knows they're hunting over bait because she put 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.919 it there on purpose so she could watch the ducks 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.280 but didn't tell anyone, and wanted to keep people from 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.399 hunting in that area, so she figured she bait it 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.239 and then if it's made it, you can't hunt there. 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.760 The game warn't proceeded to write the woman a ticket 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.840 for hunter harassment, and then told the two hunters to 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:14.159 go ahead and finish out the hunt, but after that 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.560 to stay out of there a few weeks since at 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.760 that point they knew it was bated, and he felt 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.679 that the general rule was that a bated area couldn't 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.800 be hunted for ten days after the bait was put out. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.080 YEA love it. So that's the thing. I followed up 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.679 with him to ask, uh, you know, because obviously now 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.640 at that point they're like, damn, this might be good. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.600 So I followed up to see if they limited, but 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.040 he said it just felt too sketchy, so they just left. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.120 He didn't take the warden up on the office. There's 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.360 a lot of things. There's a lot of things going 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:56.000 on there that warrn't discussion. One is, um, ducks are migratory. 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.879 I'm talking to the listeners here. Ducks are migratory. So 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:04.639 a state can't claim, you know, you know, states manage 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.040 their own wildlife with the exception of something that has 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.919 federal protections like through the Endangered Species Act or migratory stuff. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:18.520 Because you can't claim ownership of a bird that's that's traveling, 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.200 you know, thousands of miles and just stopping into places. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.479 So the way they kind of like the way they 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.440 the FEDS and and the FEDS and the states co 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:33.760 manage migratory birds. And you have flyways in the US 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.200 because you imagine like bird movements are generally these north 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.480 south movements. So you have the Atlantic Flyway, the Pacific Flyway, 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.320 how many other there's four or five flyways Mississippi River 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:49.920 fly Mississippi Flyaway, sent then there's the there's one that 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.840 goes down the Rocket Central, and then there's four or 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.080 five flyways. Look that up, way, I should know that 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:03.119 you got a handful of flyways and the waterfall, like 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.320 migratory wilder falls managed sort of on the flyway level. 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.399 And in the States and the FEDS work together and 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.520 they kind of look at there's four flyways, name them 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.040 off Yanni, Pacific Central, Mississippi in Atlantic. There you go. 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:21.080 So you'll look at like what a state, what a 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:27.240 state's contribution, so to speak, is to the general well 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:32.280 being of a species. And if a waterfall species really 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.840 utilizes a state heavily for wintering grounds or utilizes a 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.960 state heavily for breeding grounds, um that states allocation of 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:44.240 that resource will be greater than say a state where 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.879 the bird just passed through and don't really utilize the 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.760 area at all. And it's it's kind of like a 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:58.000 good system because it prohibits the state from extracting like 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.360 more than its share of a re source, which would 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.920 then impact other people down the line. The same way, 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.920 if you live on a creek and you feel free 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.560 to pour all kinds of poison into the creek on 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.919 your property, that poison will flow down river and affect 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.280 the guy down the stream. And that's why we have 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:21.960 rules that prohibit one's actions on their land from having 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.480 a negative impact on the actions of someone else's land. 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.359 Sort of that same kind of logic at play with waterfowl. 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:31.639 What was I getting at? Oh point I was getting 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:37.160 at is you can't bait migratory birds federal Like, even 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.960 if state decided, hey man, we want to allow baiting ducks, 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:44.159 you're not gonna be able to do it because the 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.840 feathers are never going to agree to it. Bait and waterfowl, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:52.280 but you can even if you go and plant crops, 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:54.480 Like even if you go, let let's say your guy 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.080 that likes to hunt ducks, you know, a bunch of land, 0:22:56.200 --> 0:23:00.400 and you're like, I'm gonna grow corn on my lamb 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.800 because I like to hunt ducks. Even if you're doing that, 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:08.679 you can't, right, you can't raise that corn and harvest 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.639 that corn out of sink with how corn is harvested 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.320 when used for agricultural purposes, Like, you can't grow a 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.720 bunch of corn, never harvest it, wait for the duck 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.920 migration to come in, knock all the corn down and 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.719 flood it and start hunting ducks. You have to if 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:28.640 you plan it, you have to pick it the way 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:32.359 it would be picked. You can't just like loophole your 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:34.639 way around it by doing weird stuff. People do do 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:36.960 weird stuff, And you can do like enhancements and plant 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.719 native vegetation that ducks like to eat all that kind 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.280 of stuff. Habitat improvements are fine, but you can't do 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:47.280 sort of like egreedgious kind of accidental baiting baiting by 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.560 like I said, the most egregious case would be that 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:54.720 you would somehow grow corn, pick it and then kind 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.680 of grains and then maybe flooded and then accidentally spill 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.040 all the grain and not pick it up and and 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:02.600 flooded and then be like, oh, you know, I'm a farmer. 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:08.120 They watched that kind of stuff and in Wisconsin. Property 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:12.560 taxes are based on rural land is based on land use. 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:15.359 And I just have some folks that I'm working with 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:21.320 who have a uh complaint about their property taxes haven't 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.000 gone up. And they said, well, this is agriculture, and 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:27.639 what it is is a twenty acre food plot that 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:29.480 they you know, they went in and knocked it down. 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:31.320 I saw the crop didn't come up. I mean, that's 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:33.720 what they're trying to tell the assessor. And the assessors like, no, 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:39.080 that's that's that's undeveloped property, which is at a much 0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:42.879 higher rate than um. He wasn't He wasn't buying it 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:44.520 at all, I said, dude. And they were asking me, 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:46.160 don't you think the size of the night. It sounds 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:47.280 to me like if you want to be a farmer, 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:54.000 you need to be a farmer, all right, So so here. 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:57.040 So so that's one interesting thing pointed conversation out of 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:01.399 this story by the sky. The other point is the 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:04.120 fact that and this is I think not widely known 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:09.000 that it's ill oftentimes in many states, and Pat Durkin 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:13.399 is gonna speak to this. It's illegal to screw with 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:18.520 the hunter or a trapper or a fisherman. You can't 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:23.399 harass him. You can't molest his hunt. Remember Jeremiah Johnson, 0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:29.520 he gets accused by bear claw Chris Cloud of molesting 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:33.959 his grizzly hunt. It's illegal to molest someone's hunt. As 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:36.399 that woman found out, that's what she was in trouble 0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:43.680 for harassing a hunter who's engaged in a legal activity. Yeah. 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:45.800 Is that a federal or a state by state? State 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:49.080 by state? And every state now has anti harassment law, 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:52.600 every state, every state has it. Yeah. The the United 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:55.800 States Sportsman Alliance back in the eighties basically helps states. 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.680 They crafted a model legislation in the states. It's from 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:02.600 the most easy ones to pass. No one, no one 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.080 likes harassment of legal activities, so it passed in all 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:09.240 fifty states. I didn't know that. I remember when it passed. 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.000 I remember I was living in Michigan. I think when 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:12.480 it passed the Michigan. I feel like I was living 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:15.159 in Michigan. It passed the Michigan, and I was curious 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:18.040 aboute because the trap because the trappers were getting her asked. Yeah, 0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:22.320 that's where that that's where the Sportsmen's Lions came from, right, well, 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:25.879 harassment so kind of trapping band in Ohio, Is that right? 0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.359 We heard the story recently. That might be because that's 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:31.760 where they're from in Columbus. You know, I remember I 0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:34.800 remember covering those guys in the mid eighties. They're doing 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:37.159 you know, trips around the country in those days, rounding 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:40.840 up support for the organization. But you know, but I 0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:44.000 remember in Wisconsin here we had a face to face 0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.160 face harassment going on in Blue Mountain State Park, which 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:50.320 is over not too far from Doug's farm, and the 0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:52.520 D and R had wardens out there and they pretty 0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:56.120 much um didn't interfere a whole lot and didn't arrest 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:57.919 anybody because they has figured we're not going to make 0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:01.719 martyrs on these people, and all these laws when in effect, 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:03.840 and basically the warden's told these people, you know you 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:07.080 can you've been warring now and if you come back 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:10.320 and you're still harassing them, then we'll have to take action. 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:14.639 But what's what's I think fascinating about the story that 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:18.920 you're sharing here is that's really become how that law 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:22.119 is being enforced. I mean, there's very very few cases 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.520 now where animal rights activists go out and organized fashion 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:31.000 and disruptant, so it just asn't unusual now, what's happenings 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:33.320 that legislation. Yeah, that's that's probably part of it. That 0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:35.800 they know that this this is something that they can 0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:40.800 be if they physically interrupt someone's hunt, blurred noise, do anything, 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:44.560 they're harass, molest, it's illegal, and it's it's pretty well, 0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:47.560 you know, it's been stoop to the various legal challenges 0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:50.480 and so they probably don't challenge anymore. That's probably you 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:54.240 don't see that kind of um enforcement action being taken 0:27:54.240 --> 0:27:56.879 because it just isn't happening because of the law. But 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.080 what's happening is all these people pulling that kind of 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:01.920 in a business where they honked honked their horns and 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:05.280 the neighbors hunting in his backyard. Um, they you know, 0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:08.119 you can google this stuff. It's I did this in 0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:10.920 in preparation. It was fun to do. You started googling 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:14.159 hunter harassment. What do you see? It's basically neighborhood situations, 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:18.240 UM situations Like a guy opening day Wisconsin's gun season, 0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:20.840 doesn't like his neighbor hunting the fence lines, who goes 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:23.440 up there and starts cutting the chain saucers doing his 0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:29.120 firewood project open day and the curse in the hunter 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:31.879 gets piste off, climbs down and this is you know, 0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.480 back probably for our cell phone coverage was so good, 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.359 and calls the ward and the warren comes out un 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:38.560 tells the neighbor quit cutting the wood. You know, come on, 0:28:38.640 --> 0:28:41.040 that's I can set here for harassment. But how did 0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:42.640 you know the guy doesn't want to cut some wood? 0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:45.280 Is because it's a long running battle, you know, typical 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:47.920 neighbor ship that goes back and forth between two neighbors 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:50.320 that don't like each other. And I find boils over 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:53.160 an opening day and then the warren's involved. You know, 0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:56.440 I know a case where there was a hunter harassment 0:28:57.200 --> 0:28:59.360 from one hunter to the other. Oh yeah, Our good 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:03.360 friend Kevin Murphy, the world's greatest small game hunter, did 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:05.640 a trip up to my home state of Michigan and 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:10.520 was hunting my home national forest, Manastee National Forest, which 0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:12.600 I think now goes by a different name, or it's 0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:16.000 here on Manistee. Anyways, many national forest and they're out 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:17.880 there with these they're out there with through squirrel dogs, 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:22.120 which is not a quiet type of dog. I mean, 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:25.600 these things make a racket. But anyway, some bow hunter 0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:28.480 comes peeling down out of his tree, freaking out on him. 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:33.880 M it a call up on that guy for hunter. Yeah, yeah, 0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:37.680 he felt that his deer hunting trumped Kevin's squirrel hunt, 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:42.600 which is yeah to me, it's it's public land and 0:29:42.840 --> 0:29:44.760 you take what you get. Yeah, it's like, sorry, bro, 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:50.040 or the dogs may have has easily runned your past. 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.720 The guy has are you know, scared of your And 0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:54.160 if you don't like it, I mean the thing to 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:58.239 do is get organized and trying to change the laws, right, 0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:02.080 changing seasons or whatever it might be. But the thing 0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:07.640 is they enjoy you know, both of those guys. So 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:09.880 squirrel hunters more so than deer hunts. But you already 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:14.160 enjoy it very long season. Yeah so too. You know, 0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:16.560 if you whittled it down and we're like, hey, we're 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:20.080 gonna have a week long archery deer season and it 0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:21.840 will make it real quiet in the woods. I think 0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:23.680 that your average bowl hunter would be like, you know what, 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:28.000 I'll stick with six or eight weeks that I have 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:30.400 understanding that there's gonna be some other activities going on 0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:32.520 out here, because a lot of states will come in 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:38.720 and shut down small game for the firearms season or 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:42.440 like a day before, right, there's something like that in Wisconsins. 0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.760 It's not anymore. No, you can. You can. You can 0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:51.360 remember because we were going to hunt with Brittany and HELLENX. 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:53.440 We want to hunt squirrels. First I thought, you can't 0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:55.560 go shooting off guns the day before dear season. They 0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.320 changed it. They changed it was the day before your season. 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:00.800 We squirrel hunted with Brittany, so they has changed it. Yeah, 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.000 it's pretty recent that you couldn't go shooting on fire. 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.000 It was more of, oh, you don't want to disturb 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:06.640 the woods. Oh, that's not going there. And then the 0:31:06.760 --> 0:31:08.600 next morning my nephew goes out there and shoots a 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:12.000 big buck right where you guys were sure because you 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.120 know what, it doesn't sets the deer at ease, well, 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:16.640 the word the deer like he said, Dude, I was 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:20.160 freaking out. Then I realized they're just hunting squirrel. I'm 0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:25.840 going That's where I'm gonna go. Um. So that woman 0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:30.600 was which woman, the woman in the canoe. She was 0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:36.680 cited for hunter harassment and baiting. We don't know about 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:39.760 that because she's been cited for bathing, all right, Yeah, 0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:42.400 but she wasn't baiting to hunt. So then you get 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.600 into this tricky thing feeding the wildlife in your backyard. 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:48.360 That's the whole thing in Wisconsin about Oh, this isn't baiting, 0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:50.400 this is I'm feeding wildlife. I'm not right, And it 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.000 sounds state you can't do that in Montana. You can't 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:55.840 see wildlife at all. That I don't seems like a 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.600 good rule to me, you know it. Got recently wrote 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:02.560 in to say to ask how many people we would 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:07.480 all like our funeral? Meaning if you were to die 0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:12.080 and then look down from the heavens, what would if 0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:14.160 you look down? What would you feel would be the 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:18.000 right number? For me, it'd be like or up at 0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:29.880 the bottoms of their boots depending yep, yeah, looking up 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.480 looking up from hell? How many people would you like 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:36.760 to see there? But the reason that I'm thinking about 0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:41.560 that now as I had wanted. Um, I haven't codified, 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:44.080 I haven't written this down, but I know where I 0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:47.520 want my carcass dumped. I don't want to be cremated 0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:53.360 or buried. I want to be surface dispersed in it's 0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:58.520 a piece of public land, um. And I know the 0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:02.680 exact spot, and I've explained it my wife. I want 0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:07.680 to be surface dumped there in order to be ravaged 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:12.760 by wild beasts. Yeah. Um and I realized now besides 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:15.600 the incredible headache, because this is they're gonna have to 0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:18.760 whoever does this has to haul my I think they 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:22.560 should part it out and game bag, but they gotta 0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:26.160 pack me in four miles and then dump my surface, 0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:28.520 dumped my carcass. And now I'm thinking about there's that's 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:34.680 probably illegal, hand definitely illegal. But you know what, Crazy Horse, 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:38.040 I'm not liking myself to these people in anyway. I'm 0:33:38.080 --> 0:33:40.320 just I just know because I've been interested in having 0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:42.840 my body, I would like my body to be dumped 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:46.200 in the woods in the mountains. Um. So in warning 0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:49.200 about the legality of that, I've looked at cases where 0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:53.400 there are uh where people have gone and dump people 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:57.120 buried people. Crazy Horse after he was killed in Nebraska, 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:06.520 uh by bayonet was they've never found his body. They 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.320 took him out of the fort and so he's somewhere 0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:11.120 buried there. No one knows where jam knew a crack 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:13.680 in the rocks. Perhaps no one's ever found Crazy Horse's 0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:20.279 body at abbey. His friends dumped him and they have 0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:27.640 never divulged. Ah. I think that the Grizzly Bear researcher 0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:30.879 Doug Peacock was involved in this. They've never divulged where 0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:33.800 they put his carcass. So I would like to. I 0:34:34.160 --> 0:34:36.279 really would like to be surface dumped. But it's like 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:39.520 maybe there is a way around it. You know, I 0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:42.080 don't know. Have you been have you looked into it? No, 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:44.040 I'm just gonna make it clear that that's what i 0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:47.399 want done. And then if the people who are left 0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:50.000 to do this, which I presumably be my children, if 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:53.200 they're left to do this and they really honestly just 0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:57.680 do not want to follow their father's dying wishes, I 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:00.319 will leave that decision to them. If not, I feel 0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:01.719 like they're going to have to do it and they're 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.480 gonna have to face the consequences. However minor they might 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:08.080 be like, yes, you're honored we took an old man's 0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:11.040 carcass out and dumped in the woods. Yeah. Well, I'm 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:13.320 sure a lawyer is crafting the email right now to 0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:15.759 us to explain how we can get get around and 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:19.080 get it done. So Pat, all fifty states have a 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:25.040 no harass and hunter law. And we started that with 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:26.880 talking about how many people are going to be at 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:28.959 the funeral. Yeah, we didn't get that. How many people 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.040 are gonna be at your funeral? How many people do 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:33.040 you want at your funeral as well? It's gonna have 0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:35.960 to be the least. Is that your funeral enough to 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:38.719 curry the body? Yeah, like I don't want I still 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.840 want to be fun So thirty forty pounds per persons 0:35:42.080 --> 0:35:44.239 like I take four people to carry it. Imagine some 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:47.600 other people are going to go to if I look 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:52.319 down and saw ten, but see, it depends on when 0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:54.919 I die, because like right now, I'd expect certain family 0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:56.839 members to be there, but presume me they'll be dead 0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:59.520 when I die, So I don't know. Like I would 0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:03.120 like if I looked down and saw less than three, 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.200 I know there's a real problem because I have three children, 0:36:06.680 --> 0:36:11.719 right so less than three would be one that my 0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:14.280 life was destroyed by the loss of one of my children, 0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:16.440 at which point I don't care what happens to me 0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:23.160 after I die, and then uh ten eleven. I feel 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:25.440 like there's some people down there who probably shouldn't be there. 0:36:25.440 --> 0:36:26.960 They're just going because they want to see this all 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:30.880 play out. I was gonna volunteer, I'd say, you know, 0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:33.920 I'd be happy to take three or forty pounds of 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:36.440 you and drop you somewhere. But I was gonna say, 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:37.960 you're gonna have to We're gonna have to work on 0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:39.880 the timing a little. This coming from a man who 0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:44.440 pulled out his hearing aids and laid him on the table. 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:49.759 And unfortunately I can't have the bullshit filters on now. 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:53.879 So and I'd volunteered too, steep, but I'm older than Dougs. 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:56.840 So yeah, I would like to thank you guys. Be 0:36:57.040 --> 0:37:01.480 long dead dog? Are you gonna be buried at your farm? Uh? 0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:04.000 You know, we've talked about that a bunch of trying 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:06.840 to figured out we drove making a fat making a 0:37:06.880 --> 0:37:10.640 family plot. Well, we have a big old family plot 0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:13.160 up at the where I went to church, and that 0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:16.600 that cemetery. My family was a part of the establishment 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:18.440 of that church and everything, and that's where all I'm like, 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:21.439 my brother is buried there, my dad's buried there, my grandparents, 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:23.520 my I mean, you go out there and you can't 0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:25.440 swing a cat in that cemetery without hitting a dirt 0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:29.439 in tombstone. So, um, you can't swing a cat around 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:33.879 there without hitting a dirt. Well, that's that's true. Road 0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:38.160 down the road is named during road Um, I put 0:37:38.239 --> 0:37:41.399 some of my dad's ashes under his favorite deer stand 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:44.600 on the farm. Remember that. And did you put anything 0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:47.719 in the family plot? Yeah, you didn't like cremate part 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.520 of them and very part of them. No, it was 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:51.920 all cremated. So there's a little urn in the family 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:55.640 plot and then up there. So those are the two places, 0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:57.960 because you know, the Pope said, we don't want people 0:37:58.000 --> 0:38:01.000 scattering ashes all around the country. Keep your keep your 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:03.400 pile together as close as it can be. And I 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:07.719 figured that was close enough. My sister in law, um, 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:14.440 on her ranch, they have I guess what passes as 0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:18.719 a cemetery cemetery to them. Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah, 0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:21.120 she would heard my brother got married. It's like you 0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:24.560 could look often as a rock pile or whatever over 0:38:24.600 --> 0:38:29.400 there where grandfather and Mr Potter get married right on 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:34.040 top of the bones of your ancestors on your own land. 0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:40.680 Yeah that's nice. Um. And now she's got grizzlies on 0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:41.880 her place, so I might just be able to do 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:46.440 my whole body dump. You'd be gone tomorrow. Did he 0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:49.360 did he have any other context with the question or 0:38:49.440 --> 0:38:51.279 that that was it? You just wanted to know how 0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:54.839 many people. We just wanted to know what you would 0:38:55.000 --> 0:39:00.399 think of as good enough. What's your answer? Yeah, I've 0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:02.319 never really thought about it. I guess that's the thing. 0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:05.239 It's all about the timing, because you hope, now if 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:10.600 it happened that, yeah, there could be a thousand people there. Okay, No, No, 0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:14.600 I'm just saying whatever, some great amount of you know, 0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:19.040 friends and peers and whatever, that you've had that kind 0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:21.200 of reach that so many people would like to come 0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.480 and support you. But yeah, when you're you know, my 0:39:25.600 --> 0:39:29.120 recently deceased grandmother's age, you don't she didn't have any 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:34.400 peers everybody, So you know, we had quite you know, 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.400 we had almost forty people there though, which was like 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:40.160 I didn't expect it, you know, but you forget how many, 0:39:40.239 --> 0:39:43.319 like I think, little tentacles you know, people have out there, 0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:46.719 and how many you know, close associations you have. It 0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:50.400 was funny to bring up the you know, my father, 0:39:51.840 --> 0:39:54.239 as I talk about many times, my father fought in 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:55.680 World War Two, so he had me when he was 0:39:55.680 --> 0:40:01.200 fifty years old, and I was raised around retired as 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:03.960 a kid, I was brought up around retired or semi 0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:07.879 retired World War Two vets. To a large degree, many 0:40:07.920 --> 0:40:12.759 of my dad's best friends that way and they just fished. Um, 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:17.880 there's that whole circle. There's only there's one left who 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:21.000 lives down the beach for my mom. And I think 0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:23.600 about that guy from like Last Man Standing, Like all 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:26.840 of that guy's friends that he spent his entire adult 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:31.320 life with have just been whittled away. And he was 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:33.680 a he was a pilot in World War Two, and 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.040 it's like his Like when that guy wakes up and 0:40:36.160 --> 0:40:38.319 goes to call his buddies, ain't know oning to call 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:43.560 man He has ran out of him, you know over 0:40:43.640 --> 0:40:48.319 the last ten fifteen years. Well he's got younger buddies now. Yeah, 0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:51.200 but like the main you know, the main people that 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:56.359 I watched him spend decades, they're just gone. But what's 0:40:56.560 --> 0:40:59.640 what's fun about? Not fun, But what's I think fascinating 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:04.400 about wakes and funerals all is their their colleagues are gone. 0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:07.160 There's there's siblings are gone in any case, like my 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:10.640 dad died, and yet you see all the people who 0:41:10.719 --> 0:41:14.400 they touched that you never had any idea how they 0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.880 touched them. They show at the at the wake and 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:21.440 you think, oh dad did Okay, Yeah, that's that's fascinating 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.360 because that is I mean, you had some awareness of it, 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:27.040 but until you until they die and you hold a wake, 0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:30.600 you don't know what the hell your parents, what holiday work, 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:32.800 their magic outside the family, and it was it was 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.120 a kind of a cool process to see you. So, Ni, 0:41:36.160 --> 0:41:38.520 what's your final number? Let's say you died right now, 0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:40.320 you just fell over dead right now because your heart problem. 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:46.320 Would you want to be just like me and your wife? 0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:54.080 Or just me or a hundred? I think I'd be 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:58.000 probably pretty happy if just my family was there, and 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:00.719 I would feel gracious if they was a hundred of 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:04.120 my friends. I guess so big numbers. Yeah, so you'd 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:07.480 want to look up from hell and see two hundred 0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:10.640 boots everybody having a big party, two booths belonging into 0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:14.680 one people. Oh, I wanted to be so somber when 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:18.200 I died. I don't like this celebration of life. It's 0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:21.600 gonna be just. I wanted to be sad. I wanted 0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:27.359 the ground to be wet with tears. Man. Um, Well, 0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:28.759 don't I get to say how I want to go? 0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:30.799 I do want to hear. Would you like to hear 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:35.839 how many you'd like to have? Um? If I I'd 0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:38.160 say that it would be cremated or my big wish, 0:42:38.200 --> 0:42:40.920 but will never happened. I've always liked the idea that 0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:43.279 did in the Navy in World War Two. They get 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:46.399 a big sack, throw to your body in there, throw 0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.560 a couple of big empty shell cases in these big 0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:54.040 brass shell cases off the side your goal. That's how 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:57.560 Osama bin Laden was buried. Yeah, basically I saw that. 0:42:57.760 --> 0:42:59.680 That's kind of cool way. You know, people don't have 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:02.200 to come and weep over a grave site. You know, 0:43:03.160 --> 0:43:05.279 they know you're out there somewhere, and that's good enough 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:08.760 for me. So that's my um. So you'd be taken 0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:12.040 out to see another way they used to do it. 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:15.759 They put you in a sort of flammable boat. And 0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:19.040 so the boat full of like brush and sticks and whatnot, 0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:22.759 lay your carcass out on it, set the boat on fire, 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:26.040 and push it out right. Do you remember who it was? 0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:28.359 Because I feel like that was popularized by some movie, 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:32.080 was popularized by dead Man. No, the burning part wasn't 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:36.239 in dead Man and Jim Jarmus's film dead Man, which 0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:39.160 is probably the greatest Western ever made, one of the 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:43.839 greatest Western's ever made. Um In the end, he puts 0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:45.960 a what is in fact a live person that he 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:47.920 thinks is dead and come back to life, puts him 0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:49.239 in a boat and says, it's time for you to 0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:53.960 go back to where you came from. Got it? But 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:59.040 have you seen Jim Jarmus is dead? Man? It sounds 0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:05.880 like I gotta tell you the remaster. But how many people? 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:13.840 Many people? Um? People who were close? None? It was 0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:19.480 a navy ship. It was on deck. Yeah, and that's 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:21.919 I'd say. If we're a tug boat, that'd be fine 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:24.959 with me. You know what, I need eight people, That's fine. 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:27.920 If I thought it had a navy connection, I'd be 0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:30.440 cool with it. Well, your daughter will bill pull strings? 0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:33.399 Because that's right? I could I could, you know, keep 0:44:33.440 --> 0:44:36.040 her on? Well, she'd go to the top brass like, hey, 0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:42.160 h here's the deal bag over there. We need to 0:44:42.200 --> 0:44:45.960 take a little ride. I need a boat ride. I've 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:47.520 never thought of this. The only thing that I've ever 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.719 thought about was that that whole thing about leading your 0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:56.160 life and writing your your own obituary and then leading 0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:59.120 your life accordingly. That's not something I thought about a lot. 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.040 But I did want to say about my dad. Was 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.680 he and another guy, Pete Melford and has obvious the 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:07.480 last two World War two vets and neither one of 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:09.000 those guys wanted to give up. It was like a 0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:10.960 grudge match between the two of them, how long they 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:13.080 were going to live and stead Pete don't lived Dad 0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:17.960 h and that that was interesting because my father was 0:45:18.480 --> 0:45:20.719 like pats of you know, pillar of the community and 0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:24.279 how many people came through and yeah, you really do 0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:29.040 see how um you're the tentacles the influence that he'd 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.480 had over people in the community, and um, I guess 0:45:32.560 --> 0:45:37.000 that's the kind of thing that, uh, that's really gratifying. 0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:40.000 But you know, personally, I never thought about it. M 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:43.480 probably won't. I'll just be dead. Yeah, that's the other 0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:45.800 thing I think about all the time. It's like, who cares, 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:50.120 I'm just dead anyway, because but but the thing is 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:55.520 death planning big business. Well yeah, but it's like it's 0:45:55.680 --> 0:45:58.399 you do it. You make your wishes alive because you're 0:45:58.400 --> 0:46:01.239 just saying what you what in life. I like the 0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:05.600 idea of so the execution of it. The fact that 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:11.960 people feel beholden to carry out your wishes really says something. 0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:16.440 Because there's no ramification. You can't get pissed at him 0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.000 at them from the wouldn't have done what you wanted 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:28.160 me to do. The heavens or hells or whatever the 0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:33.760 microbial form that you wind up taking. So pat fifty 0:46:33.840 --> 0:46:37.200 states have ANTI Is it covered by is it covered 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:41.960 by fishing too? I know trapping our fishing is fishing protected? 0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:43.919 I don't know if it is. I don't. I haven't 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:47.520 seen anything specific basically hunting and trapping. I think because 0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:49.800 because those are the ones that who had asked the 0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:54.880 fisherman when other fishermen, Yeah, her asked by other fishermen. 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:59.239 And I've been harassed by people who own the land 0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:03.240 where I might have the be fishing without permission at times. 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:05.920 But that's more. That's different. But it's good to know. 0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:09.080 So anyone who's listening, if they ever have someone come 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:14.040 out and harass them while hunting, pick up your phone 0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:16.960 or go do go to a phone and call to 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:19.440 get the person in trouble. Yeah. And the one that 0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:22.200 the case you see quite often these days is on 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:25.399 public lands to where a guy um has a tree 0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:27.960 stand up and comes back a couple years later in 0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.279 this tree stands laying the ground or it's been um 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:35.759 damaged in some way and realized what he inadvertently moved 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:37.959 down to some other guys. You know, turf who thinks 0:47:38.560 --> 0:47:40.840 he's entitled that spot. He's been hunting the spot for 0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:43.680 over a long or what happens in Wisconsin lot is 0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:46.880 a damn bait piles. These guys started maintaining a bait pile. 0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:49.800 They start thinking that's their bait pile, their property, and 0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:52.680 then they defended, and so you have these wardens have 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:54.799 to go in there and separate these guys and say, 0:47:54.920 --> 0:47:57.640 you know, this isn't your land. He has a very 0:47:57.719 --> 0:48:00.480 right to be here. And they say how those kinds disputes. 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:03.480 Wisconsin's got an interesting going on going on right now. 0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:08.359 They passed a law last year to prevent animal rights 0:48:08.400 --> 0:48:14.719 activists from even filming and videotaping, recording images repeat that 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:19.160 the losses something like repeatedly, And I personally think that 0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:21.200 one was going to get shot down in courts because 0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:22.960 I don't know how you can prevent someone like me, 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:26.000 a journalist and taking a picture of guys down the road, 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:28.440 like let's say, bear hunters getting their dodge rated to goal. 0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:32.120 And that's what's happening. Was this came up because um, 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:35.000 a case came up where some animal rights activists were 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:39.960 up building Wisconsin monitoring the bear hunters, the wolf hunters. 0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:43.239 The guys with the hounds didn't like the hounds up 0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:45.279 there chasing bears and wolves. I can't think of that. 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:47.399 I think it's mainly what worrying about wolf hunting though, 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:50.919 And so they they got some lawmaker to write write 0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:53.160 a bill saying you can't write a law, it's actually 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:57.480 law now that you can't repeatedly stand there like in 0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:59.879 a road and video tip these guys down the road 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:02.839 doing their business. That seems like a stretch. Yes, that's 0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:05.400 a stretch because I think you get then you're the 0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:08.520 public exactly. I mean, yeah, you can't go into some 0:49:08.600 --> 0:49:10.720 guy's property and do that that. You couldn't do that anyway, 0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:13.360 I'd be trespassing. And if you follow them through the 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:15.960 woods it could be harassment, right. But just to stand 0:49:16.000 --> 0:49:19.160 there on the road and shoot down am an old 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:21.640 logging road, that kind of thing, I think that gets 0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:23.239 in the First Amendment stuff. I don't know how that 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:28.040 whatever will stand the test of time in courts, but um, yeah, 0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:32.400 that's you talked. Almost anyone up in public lands up 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:34.719 north right now. Almost everyone has some kind of story 0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:37.520 like that where there they left a tree stand out, 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:39.560 or they have a bait piled, the buddy at a 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:41.719 bait pile is always all those kind of stories that's 0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:45.080 common now that liked Hunter on Hunter, Hunter and Hunter. 0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:50.480 And then when I mentioned earlier, the backyard situations are 0:49:50.880 --> 0:49:53.920 becoming more common because you have more suburban hunting UM 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:58.759 Washington on the suburbs of our our nation's capital, UM, 0:49:58.840 --> 0:50:02.719 these northern very in your neighborhoods. There's a pretty good 0:50:02.760 --> 0:50:05.239 case where the Archery Trade Association, which I do a 0:50:05.280 --> 0:50:07.640 lot of work with, actually got involved and provide an 0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:10.960 attorney to fight it because when his neighborhood associations was 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:13.640 trying to prevent a guy trying to prevent a bowl 0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:16.320 hunting group when he's UM. They had these cool bowling 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:18.840 groups in these big urban areas that go out and 0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:22.120 shoot deer in people's yards basically try to knock knock 0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:24.840 the herd down. And this one guy, one group that 0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:27.160 was doing that a lot. They were getting harassed and 0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:31.719 being told and actually legally not, you can't hunt this neighborhood. 0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:35.560 And our association, you know, you know, has a um 0:50:35.640 --> 0:50:38.640 what do you call his covenants to prevent that well, 0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:41.440 Archie Trade Association took it on, got their lawyer involved 0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:44.560 and got a struct struck it got strucken stricken down 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:48.880 because it was just, you know, it violates some they 0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:53.120 you know, home owners associations cannot dictate hunting rules. That's 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:56.480 the state's province unless they own the land. Unless they 0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:59.640 own the land. Yeah, but but they're it reminds me 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:03.560 of an old joke. They're dictating it to their dictating 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:08.120 it to other landowners, and you can't do that. So 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:12.360 that's that's why they Yeah, because the state is jealous 0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:16.680 of states detective of its rights on it to manage hunting. 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:19.839 And from the big point of view is that while 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:24.840 they're representing us, you know, the state wildlife associated agencies, 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.279 they represent us, and so they're looking out for our 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:30.960 rights by by by fighting it. So so that's where 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:33.400 these cases are gone. It's not it's no longer the 0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:37.080 animal rights people typically creating the problems. It's it's hunters 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:39.720 and neighbors that kind of things. Just to be clear, 0:51:39.880 --> 0:51:45.239 because I happen to have very personal Uh I don't 0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:48.120 want to say it like covenant expertise. Well, yeah, but 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:50.480 I got I got some skin in this game. Um, 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:57.600 because yeah, my supposed h a which you know, it 0:51:57.800 --> 0:52:00.600 came in perpetunity with the property right, so we never 0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:03.480 signed anything, has never been a meeting. We don't pay 0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:09.239 any dues. There's maybe twenty rules you know there they 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:11.400 were supposed to follow, and one of them is no 0:52:11.719 --> 0:52:15.600 hunting with firearms only only you can hunt with the boat. 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:18.480 Doesn't say you can't shoot firearms, which you can't hunt 0:52:18.520 --> 0:52:21.800 with firearms. And you're saying that they cannot enforce that. 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:24.040 I bet you if if if you were to challenge it, 0:52:24.080 --> 0:52:26.719 they have a hard time defending it because that's truly 0:52:26.960 --> 0:52:31.320 a state. Um, that's a state issue. They can't be 0:52:31.440 --> 0:52:34.200 dictating that. But you know, cities can pass ordinance, so 0:52:34.280 --> 0:52:37.800 off it's a safety they can provide. They can do that. 0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:40.960 No firearms in the village and have firearms in the city. No, 0:52:41.760 --> 0:52:44.560 So it's a matter. It seems like if it's a 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:48.879 neighborhood association and there's like common ground in the middle 0:52:48.960 --> 0:52:50.640 of it, you know, and the houses are all around it, 0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:52.640 that if they own that as a group, or that 0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:56.239 was a part of that development or whatever, they I 0:52:56.280 --> 0:53:00.400 don't see I've got by mixing the hunting into I 0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:04.880 think I think it complicates a situation. What I'd like 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:10.920 to see. What's starting to concern me is when the 0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:15.880 the agencies that will run like a bear hunt, but 0:53:15.960 --> 0:53:20.120 they'll have a mandatory check station. So Florida did this 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:25.480 and they're ill fated bear hunt. New Jersey and they're 0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:28.040 soon to be ill fated bear hunt. They actually elected 0:53:28.080 --> 0:53:32.680 a governor who ran on an anti bear hunting, had 0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:37.759 an anti bear hunting plank in his platform. I don't 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:40.359 need It's just we got an email from a guy 0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:51.640 who uh started hunting, and then got started hunting, got divorced, 0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:54.840 and now his ex wife goes down to join the 0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:58.840 bear hunting protesters. So he said his life's become a 0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:02.480 real joke, really joke at his circle of friends. But 0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:05.560 they have these check stations, and they make an actual 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:09.759 protest area at the check station, so the people can 0:54:09.840 --> 0:54:15.000 come down and harass hunters who are legally obligated to 0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:18.120 go to that specific check station rather than to be 0:54:18.200 --> 0:54:23.040 able to go to you know, a facility. Normal you 0:54:23.080 --> 0:54:26.000 go to check something. You go to the fishing game office, right, 0:54:26.080 --> 0:54:29.040 and you go in, you go into a enclosed area 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:30.719 or whatever and do a check things. So they gotta 0:54:30.760 --> 0:54:33.960 like set off like a protest zone so people can 0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:39.120 heckle and harass people who are fulfilling one they're legally 0:54:39.160 --> 0:54:41.879 allowed to hunt. They're fulfilling their legal obligation to check 0:54:41.960 --> 0:54:43.880 the thing, but they got to do so against the 0:54:43.920 --> 0:54:47.200 back drop. Wow, I'm surprised to let that go of 0:54:47.280 --> 0:54:52.640 a bunch of you, who's well, you can't prevent people 0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:55.640 from protesting the laws or not physically doing something to 0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:58.240 the people. Yeah, at a Turkey check station. I'm guessing 0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:00.880 no one shows up. When you have a Turkey check station, 0:55:00.920 --> 0:55:02.719 you probably don't need to have an area. And I 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:05.919 see at that point it's not really harassment because they're 0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:10.719 not affecting the hunt. I don't like it in this world. 0:55:10.760 --> 0:55:13.040 There are things where like That's why I would like 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:19.120 to be an absolute dictator, because um, because then I 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:21.360 wouldn't have to worry about the legal like just certain 0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:22.880 rules I wanted to have it. I don't have to 0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:26.560 worry about why, like how to justify them. I'd be like, Oh, 0:55:27.280 --> 0:55:29.000 in addition to all that, I don't want this to 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:31.000 happen either, and I don't. I can't explain why, just 0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.960 don't like it. I just don't like it, can't and 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:37.000 I don't won't. I don't care what you think. Watch 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:41.920 this segue speaking of hunter harrassment, Speaking of hunter harassment, 0:55:42.000 --> 0:55:47.680 Pat Durkin, I think that that's that blue laws are 0:55:47.800 --> 0:55:52.560 a form of hunter harassment. Can you explain a blue law? 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:56.719 I just sprang this on Pat okay Um, I'll right 0:55:56.760 --> 0:55:58.640 away start with an apology that I'm not from my 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:03.240 state that has ever had blue laws. I think, yeahgize. 0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:08.000 I apologize as saying I'm not the most versed in 0:56:08.080 --> 0:56:11.080 this topics, so I'm sure someone will will correct me 0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:14.040 on this. But I do remember I have some experience 0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:16.600 in this because when I was stationed in Virginia back 0:56:16.640 --> 0:56:20.640 in the seventies, UM Virginia had a blue law, and 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:23.400 I think it's still in effect. In the blue law 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:27.160 basically from my understanding, was that UM stores like big 0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:32.040 department stores, UM shopping malls, UM hunting. You could not 0:56:32.280 --> 0:56:34.920 go out on Sundays and the hunt. You couldn't go 0:56:34.960 --> 0:56:37.920 out and shop at these big shopping malls. All those 0:56:37.920 --> 0:56:40.600 stores are shut down, so you couldn't shop or hunt. 0:56:40.640 --> 0:56:42.640 You couldn't shop or hunt. You could go fishing, though, 0:56:44.160 --> 0:56:47.319 But but I this has to do with the Sabbath, right, 0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:49.319 I'm sure it has to do with the Sabbath, because 0:56:49.360 --> 0:56:52.239 the only place I'm aware of, well, actually I think, um, 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:57.479 I think until recently, I think Matttoba had no Sunday hunting, 0:56:57.760 --> 0:57:00.399 or Saskatchewan one of those provinces had a too. Is fine, 0:57:00.600 --> 0:57:03.040 It's not just a Southern thing. It's something that I think, right, 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:07.120 certain religions, UM just didn't think it's proper to be 0:57:07.200 --> 0:57:10.800 hunting on Sundays. Pennsylvania, like our man Brody Henderson, frequent 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:14.520 guest here, wrote a piece on our website. If you 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:16.800 go to the mediator dot com, you look up Brody's 0:57:16.800 --> 0:57:20.440 piece about about blue laws, which which me and everyone 0:57:20.480 --> 0:57:22.520 I know it feels that they should be just categorically 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:29.040 repealed across the board. Um, it's it's it's just like 0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:32.680 upsetting to me. But that you can fish as though, 0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:37.960 as though like to think that the God would look 0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:42.800 down and be mad at a guy solemnly sitting in 0:57:42.880 --> 0:57:49.160 his tree stand all day, okay, in quiet contemplation as 0:57:49.240 --> 0:57:51.680 he awaits the arrival of a deer that he knows 0:57:51.800 --> 0:57:55.520 will probably not show up, and God would be mad 0:57:55.560 --> 0:57:59.280 at that guy. But then some dude sitting on the 0:57:59.360 --> 0:58:02.880 edge of a pine, swilling beers and yelling back and 0:58:02.960 --> 0:58:05.280 forth up and down the bank with his buddies fishing 0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:11.080 all day. It's like that that, right, it just doesn't 0:58:11.120 --> 0:58:13.680 make sense. Well, I think they would probably look back 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:16.200 now and look at that as a failure in their 0:58:16.280 --> 0:58:18.440 part when they made the rule. It's just that we 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:22.520 should have thrown in Fishing's definitely because if and watching football, 0:58:23.400 --> 0:58:26.480 even playing football on Sundays. I mean, the goal has 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:31.439 got to be to get more people through the church stores, right, Doug, 0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:35.600 did you actually raise your hand. I've been, I've been 0:58:35.800 --> 0:58:38.880 helps it helps to do that, you know. I don't wanna, 0:58:39.000 --> 0:58:41.640 I don't wanna interrupt. I think that the fishing thing 0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:47.040 is probably because the Apostles were all fishermen. I like that. 0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:52.640 I like that. Yeah, when told to uh, that great 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.640 story cast your nets on the other side of the boat, 0:58:57.080 --> 0:59:00.880 that Bible story. Yes, um, that could be now. I 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:05.040 used to trap on some land, not Amish, but I 0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:08.280 used to trap on a lot of Mennonite properties. And 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:11.760 they keep I believe, I believe they are men. I 0:59:11.760 --> 0:59:15.080 believe they kept a Saturday Sabbath which was like the 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:17.080 original set people used to think that everybody think that 0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:20.120 Saturday was the Sabbath sundown, like that's how the Jews 0:59:20.200 --> 0:59:24.000 on it, right, sundown, Friday sundown, Saturday. I used to 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:26.720 trap on their land. They wouldn't like check traps on 0:59:26.800 --> 0:59:29.200 the Sabbath. They didn't want anybody out running traps because 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:33.400 they honored the Sabbath. They weren't like doing weird shortcuts, right, 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:36.080 I mean, they were like stripped by the book. Um, 0:59:36.720 --> 0:59:40.360 and I would trap fox so you can't not check 0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:42.600 your you know, you gotta you gotta check traps every morning, 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:46.200 early earlier, the better I'd have to go pull them all. 0:59:46.960 --> 0:59:50.120 I'd pull them all on Friday, then reset on Sunday 0:59:50.720 --> 0:59:53.880 because you can't just leave them out and not run them. 0:59:56.160 --> 0:59:58.400 But there I was like more indulgent because there I 0:59:58.480 --> 1:00:00.240 was like, you know what you have? You go so 1:00:00.600 --> 1:00:04.600 far out of your way to stay true to an 1:00:04.720 --> 1:00:09.320 understanding of a text right that there, I feel like 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:11.800 like I'm like, yeah, I get it. But when people 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:14.360 who are just like so randomly sort of cherry pick 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:18.040 parts that they're like, oh, I'm gonna I agree with 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:20.480 that part that part, never mind, then I get a 1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:25.160 little bit intolerant. Of it. Yeah, and what's fascinating to 1:00:25.240 --> 1:00:28.960 me about that? Not hunting on Sundays. I had shipmates 1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:31.960 who were from Virginia and they're from southern states that 1:00:32.520 --> 1:00:35.760 had blue laws, and I'd tell him one, in Wisconsin, 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:38.280 we don't have that. We can hunt all seven days 1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:41.480 the week. And aren't you working to repeal this? Why 1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:43.360 don't you get rid of that? And they looked at 1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:48.320 me like I was nuts. You know, that's just unheard 1:00:48.360 --> 1:00:49.640 of it. You would go and shoot a gun on 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:51.800 a Sunday. They didn't didn't like that idea. They'd fight it. 1:00:52.640 --> 1:00:55.680 Maybe it's the peacefulness of the day. But by point 1:00:55.760 --> 1:00:57.840 was this, but most guys only can hunt the weekend. 1:00:57.920 --> 1:01:01.400 So here you are eliminating your eliminating your hunting. You're 1:01:01.440 --> 1:01:07.080 cutting it down by oh yeah. I My story in 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:09.600 my typical week kind of hunting in Virginia would be 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:12.560 to lead the ship on Friday night, drive five hours 1:01:12.640 --> 1:01:17.479 out um Bath County, Virginia, hunt all day Saturday, shut 1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:20.520 down Sunday, hunt half the day Monday, and then then 1:01:20.600 --> 1:01:23.520 drive back the ship. And I just just used to 1:01:23.640 --> 1:01:25.720 drive me nuts giving up that Sunday go I go 1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:29.040 scouting and stuff. But it's not the same. Now I'm 1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:34.120 getting ripped off here. Another thing, another piece of another 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:38.040 piece of this that's not related, but simply reminded that 1:01:38.080 --> 1:01:41.480 I'm reminded of. It's something we talked about earlier, which 1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:48.600 is that a lot of states um cut off, cut 1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:55.720 off your hunt day at some time. Hm. I only 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:58.280 know that for turkeys. Wells myle Manu's talk about this 1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:04.000 mile Man in Post Warriors. They would go down to 1:02:04.120 --> 1:02:06.240 hunt geese, and they would hunt geese some places where 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:09.000 you could only hunt geese till I can't remember what 1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:11.479 it was noon. But this is back when there weren't 1:02:11.480 --> 1:02:15.000 that many Canada geese, you know, like like it wasn't 1:02:15.040 --> 1:02:16.440 like it wasn't like today where they're trying to like 1:02:16.480 --> 1:02:18.840 come up with creative ways to inspire people to kill 1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:22.000 more Canada geese. Uh, that's better. There weren't that many geese, 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:24.280 but you couldn't huntil noon. And he said those geese 1:02:24.320 --> 1:02:30.120 would sit on a refuge and they would like normally 1:02:30.120 --> 1:02:31.600 a goose wakes up in the morning and the first 1:02:31.600 --> 1:02:34.160 thing on his mind, he's gonna leave his roost and 1:02:34.160 --> 1:02:36.720 they roost on open water, big open water. He's gonna 1:02:36.800 --> 1:02:40.640 leave his roost and go eat. The law had trained 1:02:40.720 --> 1:02:43.960 that those geese had learned to sit on the roost, 1:02:44.680 --> 1:02:47.080 and they would sit on the roost. And he said 1:02:47.120 --> 1:02:48.800 he could be exaggerating, but he said it was like 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:53.040 at twelve oh one, the geese would leave the roost 1:02:53.080 --> 1:02:59.520 and go feed in the fields. They had picked it up. Wow. Yeah, 1:03:00.320 --> 1:03:05.000 but now it's primarily a turkey thing. We're hunting. California 1:03:05.040 --> 1:03:08.280 have to quit hunting turkeys at three. In Missouri, you 1:03:08.320 --> 1:03:10.800 have to quit hunting turkeys at one, I believe, and 1:03:10.840 --> 1:03:13.320 I think California was four. I feel like it was 1:03:13.360 --> 1:03:16.800 a very odd time, like very late in the day, 1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:21.080 because they don't want you going in. Well, what do 1:03:21.120 --> 1:03:23.360 you think of this path? Are started off? We kind 1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:26.800 of adopted um Missouri's rule. We are started off with 1:03:26.960 --> 1:03:30.120 noon and the explanation we got was that get the 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:32.600 turkeys to break in the afternoon and made it easier 1:03:32.640 --> 1:03:34.320 to call the next day. They got it. They had 1:03:34.320 --> 1:03:36.880 all these different rationales for the gobble, more than that 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:40.720 being pestered all through the day, and then um also 1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:43.200 the argument that they didn't like, they didn't think like 1:03:43.360 --> 1:03:45.240 the idea that people could sit and wait for them 1:03:45.280 --> 1:03:47.800 to come back to a roosting area and shooting mouth, 1:03:47.960 --> 1:03:51.000 you know, coming basically ambushing coming back to roost. But 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:53.919 you know we had only worked so well. It only 1:03:53.960 --> 1:03:57.120 works so well because the turkey doesn't have agree in 1:03:57.280 --> 1:04:01.880 his life. Like what, Doug, you look like you're like 1:04:01.960 --> 1:04:06.760 either having a heart attack or like what what? Well, 1:04:06.800 --> 1:04:08.800 I'm just gonna go in that whole thing about turkeys 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:11.800 not using the same rusts and no listen, listen, yeah 1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:18.920 I am, I am unplugged his thing. Turkeys do you 1:04:19.040 --> 1:04:21.480 like to use the same rust? They do not feel 1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:26.720 married to a roust, use it when it suits them. 1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:31.280 But the idea, unless you're talking about some extreme desert 1:04:31.360 --> 1:04:33.760 situation where you have an oasis that has like a 1:04:33.880 --> 1:04:36.320 couple of sycamores growing in the bottom of it and 1:04:36.400 --> 1:04:37.920 that's the only way for that some bitch to get 1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:40.040 up off the ground, then you might kind of have 1:04:40.160 --> 1:04:42.120 him by the short hairs when it comes to setting 1:04:42.200 --> 1:04:46.240 up on his rust. Most turkeys like they'll roost in 1:04:46.280 --> 1:04:47.640 the same tree a bunch of nights in a row 1:04:48.000 --> 1:04:53.720 unless there's a reason not to. Okay, yeah, I don't 1:04:53.720 --> 1:04:55.280 want to get on plugs, so I agree with you. 1:04:55.360 --> 1:04:58.800 Now what what I don't understand. It's still it's it 1:04:58.880 --> 1:05:01.520 can be. It's totally go workable tactic. I mean, I've 1:05:01.600 --> 1:05:04.840 killed a handful of birds, but they're not like Okay, 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:08.600 when I was recist, when I was researching my Buffalo book, 1:05:09.200 --> 1:05:12.720 I would read about hide hunters out on the Texas 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:18.000 planes who would find an isolated water hole that was 1:05:18.080 --> 1:05:22.760 getting used, and when it got dark out, they would 1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:25.760 build fires and make a lot of rockets around the 1:05:25.840 --> 1:05:29.680 water hole to prevent any animals from approaching during the 1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:31.800 dark when it was hard to see them, and shoot 1:05:31.920 --> 1:05:35.320 and work in order to only allow them the opportunity 1:05:35.360 --> 1:05:38.280 to even think about coming for water during the daylight 1:05:38.360 --> 1:05:40.720 hours when you could kill them. And they would do 1:05:40.760 --> 1:05:42.439 it in a way or they knew they had heard, 1:05:43.160 --> 1:05:45.560 you know the technical term by the short hairs and 1:05:45.680 --> 1:05:52.040 having identified its sole water source. Okay, that to to 1:05:52.200 --> 1:05:55.840 act like sitting a roost for turkeys is somehow where 1:05:55.880 --> 1:05:58.960 you're sort of like got them and you've you've backed 1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:02.520 them into a corner. Now, isn't true? Oh and now 1:06:02.560 --> 1:06:05.520 you're getting back to like the law of reasoning, right, Yeah, 1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:07.480 I told hi, I'm beyond the law reason. I'm just 1:06:07.480 --> 1:06:12.600 saying like I I don't think that that. I think 1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:15.040 that if you gave me the opportunity, here's the thing, 1:06:15.200 --> 1:06:18.520 I'm talking turkey strategy. If you gave me the opportunity 1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:22.919 to know what tree he was in, to know where 1:06:22.960 --> 1:06:26.880 he's roosted up, I would rather know and not do 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:29.680 anything about it than to have an idea where he 1:06:29.800 --> 1:06:34.360 might be coming, probably quietly at night, and try to 1:06:34.480 --> 1:06:37.080 exploit his coming into that. I would rather just know 1:06:37.240 --> 1:06:39.240 that he was there and going in the morning. Anyway, 1:06:40.400 --> 1:06:43.560 it just isn't fail safe. It's not a fail safe 1:06:43.640 --> 1:06:48.200 turkey way. What Doug, God, I can't even breathe now, 1:06:50.400 --> 1:06:54.160 let me finish my evolution in Wisconsin turkey hunting, please. 1:06:57.360 --> 1:07:00.400 So we so we went from noon. So for me, 1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:04.840 I lost. So that's okay. So for many years we 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:07.400 had this neon closure. We could hunt from what basically 1:07:07.520 --> 1:07:09.560 dawn till till noon. And you feel that they borrowed 1:07:09.600 --> 1:07:11.720 it from the start up from Missouri. That's it kind 1:07:11.760 --> 1:07:13.280 of explained that to us from they were selling us 1:07:13.320 --> 1:07:16.720 on the whole idea of a turkey season. Well, a 1:07:16.840 --> 1:07:19.120 decade goes by or so I can't run an exact date. 1:07:19.600 --> 1:07:22.120 Let me start have any discussions about, um, well, why 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.480 not extend the season late a day. We're losing all 1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:27.040 this opportunity for hunters to go out and hunt these 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:30.240 these great new birds we have. And so eventually we 1:07:30.680 --> 1:07:33.800 compromised because Lavis just want to just have opened the 1:07:33.800 --> 1:07:36.520 whole day. But we compromised for a number of years 1:07:36.840 --> 1:07:40.280 a five o'clock closure. Five o'clock you had to shut down. 1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:43.400 And then that went on and this guy didn't fall. 1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:45.840 So then we talked about it again. And I can't 1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:48.640 remember again, Doug, wasn't that long ago we probably have 1:07:48.720 --> 1:07:52.800 said open the whole damn day and then also stupp 1:07:52.880 --> 1:07:56.480 in five days periods, run it all right back to 1:07:56.560 --> 1:07:59.640 back in the season opened town Wednesday goes all the 1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:01.840 way to Tuesday and stuff, because must be originally five 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:05.280 days would be a Wednesday through Sunday. Boys are killing 1:08:05.480 --> 1:08:09.080 fifty thousand turkeys a year. Yeah, and yeah, and actually 1:08:09.200 --> 1:08:11.640 not the population is kind of stabilized. Phone, it's it's 1:08:11.760 --> 1:08:15.120 um you know, phone this level. You know, we're shooting 1:08:15.200 --> 1:08:17.120 less now than we were back in the days when 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:19.439 we had you know, this five days season, I think, 1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:22.160 or at least it's not not that long ago. Wasn't that. 1:08:22.439 --> 1:08:25.599 It's it's so much about turkeys and how how smart 1:08:25.600 --> 1:08:29.200 they're about being hunted to actual numbers. It's not about 1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:31.360 so many how many hours in the day we get 1:08:31.400 --> 1:08:34.920 to hunt. And to your point about the roosting, we've 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:37.479 been hunting them now all day until sunset for a 1:08:37.600 --> 1:08:40.720 number of years in the population hasn't collapsed, you so, 1:08:41.360 --> 1:08:44.439 And I've tried that where I've I saw him come 1:08:44.439 --> 1:08:45.720 off fro the roost the morning, I heard him come 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:47.720 off the roost, and I go back in there in 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:50.519 the evening and sit down in that area. Neither picked 1:08:50.560 --> 1:08:52.800 me off or whatever. But I've never have gotten that 1:08:52.920 --> 1:08:57.120 opportunity record shoot that gobbler come back through the spring woods. 1:08:57.160 --> 1:09:01.960 That never happened. It still hasn't, so I have you. Yeah, 1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:04.360 I mean we've got roosting areas like where we got 1:09:04.439 --> 1:09:09.120 the birds this past year, that's traditionally there. But now 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:12.400 again it's not that tree. But there's a whole sort 1:09:12.439 --> 1:09:14.360 of you know, a couple of different points and you're 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:16.160 gonna be out there, So there's gonna be turkeys there 1:09:16.200 --> 1:09:18.720 in the afternoon, just like there's gonna be deer there 1:09:18.720 --> 1:09:23.599 in the afternoon. Because it's just that kind of place. So, um, yeah, 1:09:23.640 --> 1:09:25.960 of course it's not fail safe. So I agree with 1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:29.720 you if what you're gonna see, if we do wind 1:09:29.800 --> 1:09:31.479 up having problems with turkeys, what you're gonna see, I 1:09:31.479 --> 1:09:33.800 think before you see any adjustments in that area, you're 1:09:33.800 --> 1:09:39.160 gonna see adjustments and fall seasons. Sure. Fall seasons are 1:09:39.200 --> 1:09:41.040 like when you want to get serious, when you go like, 1:09:41.080 --> 1:09:43.400 oh man, we got a turkey problem or potential turkey problem. 1:09:43.400 --> 1:09:45.800 That's you're gonna see the triman's coming from these fall 1:09:46.240 --> 1:09:50.120 seasons that are hen hunts. Oh yeah. In Montana, one 1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:53.640 of the I think it's region two for turkeys. This 1:09:53.720 --> 1:09:56.920 spring you can kill two hands. I believe there might 1:09:56.960 --> 1:10:00.559 be one hand in the spring. They added one. They 1:10:00.600 --> 1:10:03.599 added a hand to the spring. So obviously that's saying 1:10:03.640 --> 1:10:06.200 that there's like they've got some and it's I think 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:08.320 it's a place where there's a lot of private land 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:12.559 and they're just overrun with yeah, and they're they're really 1:10:12.600 --> 1:10:14.720 trying to knock back the numbers. A thing to keep 1:10:14.720 --> 1:10:17.320 in mind in a place like Montana is turkeys aren't 1:10:17.360 --> 1:10:21.360 native there, right, So there are a lot of areas 1:10:21.400 --> 1:10:25.080 in Montana that have turkeys that would not because winners 1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:29.400 are so severe that have turkeys that would not have 1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:32.759 turkeys if it wasn't for turkeys being able to exploit 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:38.600 cattle operations ice A Hunt area and basically the southeast 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:42.080 quadrant of the state, and it's a lot of remote 1:10:42.120 --> 1:10:45.479 areas and turkeys are just by May, those turkeys dispersed everywhere, 1:10:46.160 --> 1:10:52.519 but those turkeys congregate in groupings of hundreds where cattle 1:10:52.560 --> 1:10:55.320 are being overwinded because they come in and pick grain 1:10:55.360 --> 1:10:59.720 out of the ship graining operations. And if you re 1:11:00.000 --> 1:11:04.959 moved those you would all together lose or like virtually 1:11:05.120 --> 1:11:08.679 lose the population. So I think in those places, because 1:11:08.720 --> 1:11:10.840 we're always having this conversation people like, oh, like blank 1:11:11.000 --> 1:11:14.600 is overpopulated or this species overpopulate, and you guys have 1:11:14.720 --> 1:11:18.880 to bring up like well, by whose measure, like who 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:21.240 regards them? And often times you'll find that by whose 1:11:21.280 --> 1:11:24.200 measure winds up being an agricultural interest. So, yeah, if 1:11:24.200 --> 1:11:27.000 you've got a non native population of birds that are 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:30.880 showing up on some guys farm, four hundred of them 1:11:30.920 --> 1:11:33.960 show up in November and they're gonna stick around till April, 1:11:34.640 --> 1:11:38.519 he might be like, by my measure, since I'm bearing, 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:42.160 since I'm solely bearing the brunt of this all winter. 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:44.479 By my measure, you've always got to shoot some of 1:11:44.479 --> 1:11:49.720 these hands, because that's when you start trimming into population. 1:11:49.920 --> 1:11:52.920 And I think our fall turkey season basically does runs now. 1:11:53.560 --> 1:11:57.479 We never get Oh yeah, it's just just never been 1:11:57.560 --> 1:11:59.800 much interest me. I was gonna ask you, do you 1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:02.519 have any idea what the numbers are turkeys killed in 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:07.240 the fall compared to the spring. I haven't looked. Yeah. 1:12:07.640 --> 1:12:10.600 The only guy I know that's really into it was 1:12:11.720 --> 1:12:14.479 a friend of mine from from back home from school. 1:12:15.280 --> 1:12:18.080 He's really into because he raises he raises turkey dogs 1:12:19.040 --> 1:12:21.960 and so and you. In the tenth Legion he talks 1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:26.439 about this as well. Um. Colonel Tom Kelly discusses this 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:30.160 in the tenth Legion that a fall hunting strategy. Well, 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:33.799 I'm not telling you boys that, I'm telling the listeners 1:12:35.160 --> 1:12:38.000 how you're generally hunting unless you're bushwhacking turkeys and the spring. 1:12:38.080 --> 1:12:40.840 What you're doing is you're you're exploiting the fact that 1:12:40.880 --> 1:12:44.360 they're in their breeding cycle and you are going out 1:12:44.479 --> 1:12:47.240 and making the sound of a female in order to 1:12:47.360 --> 1:12:50.080 lure in the mail. The work it's hard is in 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:53.840 Turkey land. How things generally work with turkeys, is it 1:12:54.200 --> 1:12:58.920 the male gobbles and does his deal in struts and displays, 1:12:59.320 --> 1:13:02.880 and females come to the mail. What you're trying to 1:13:02.960 --> 1:13:06.360 do is be so enticing that you kind of undo 1:13:06.560 --> 1:13:08.920 that and cause the male to come to the female. 1:13:08.920 --> 1:13:12.040 You're trying to generate some frustration on his part, and 1:13:12.160 --> 1:13:15.160 he's like, what is her problem? As will Primo says, 1:13:15.240 --> 1:13:17.360 I'm gonna go show her just how pretty I am. 1:13:18.040 --> 1:13:21.200 And he comes in and you kill him and the fall. 1:13:21.280 --> 1:13:23.320 You can't you're not doing that because the hens don't 1:13:23.320 --> 1:13:26.000 care about you know, you're not. You're not gonna draw 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:29.120 in gobblers, but making hands sound they don't care. They're 1:13:29.160 --> 1:13:32.920 not breathing them. So the trick is is to disperse 1:13:33.560 --> 1:13:36.519 a flock, because then you need to locate each other. 1:13:37.479 --> 1:13:40.000 But a human isn't fast enough to disperse the flock. 1:13:40.120 --> 1:13:43.160 Like a human generally, if you go tearing after a 1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:47.760 flock of turkeys, they're so fast and wary the way 1:13:47.840 --> 1:13:49.880 before you get there, they're just gonna run off as 1:13:49.920 --> 1:13:52.200 a group and not lose track of each other. But 1:13:52.320 --> 1:13:55.920 a dog is low to the ground and stealthy and 1:13:56.120 --> 1:13:59.719 so fast that he can get in amongst the flock 1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:02.920 and spook the ship out of him and send them 1:14:03.320 --> 1:14:07.519 going off in all manner directions, at which point you 1:14:07.680 --> 1:14:11.200 set up and start doing like a basically a hurting 1:14:11.320 --> 1:14:15.840 call that the hens make as they're trying to regroup, 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:19.040 and they're just out there going we weep, we weep, 1:14:19.120 --> 1:14:23.160 an other little noises, and they come back together and 1:14:23.240 --> 1:14:25.720 you call him in and take a poke at him. 1:14:27.000 --> 1:14:29.320 We got lucky once and shot two gobblers out of 1:14:29.400 --> 1:14:32.479 a flock that we had basically kind of called in. 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:34.320 But also we're just in the right spot where the 1:14:34.360 --> 1:14:36.479 flock was, you know, moving down and ridge towards us, 1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:39.800 and the shooting of the two birds dispersed the flock. 1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:42.080 And then we're sitting around, you know, Jack John and 1:14:42.280 --> 1:14:45.280 high five in and all excited. And then they the 1:14:45.360 --> 1:14:47.400 same thing happened. So we had dispersed the flock, and 1:14:47.439 --> 1:14:49.160 all of a sudden you can hear hands on both sides. 1:14:49.800 --> 1:14:53.240 What were they doing? It was? It was everything. It 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:56.320 was kind of the cacophony. Yeah. Now, I got a 1:14:56.360 --> 1:14:58.920 buddy who used to when he kicked up a group 1:14:58.960 --> 1:15:02.479 of huns, he wouldn't shoot if he kicked up a 1:15:02.520 --> 1:15:04.560 group of huns. He would kind of like, look the 1:15:04.720 --> 1:15:08.040 hunsl split, you know, they're like one in his direction, 1:15:08.120 --> 1:15:10.519 three and at direction to an at direction he would 1:15:10.600 --> 1:15:12.720 kind of look at like after they all landed, he'd 1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:15.479 sort of picked like what would be the middle and 1:15:15.640 --> 1:15:18.080 go in and just with his mouth make a hun 1:15:18.200 --> 1:15:23.759 noise and pull huns back into him just for funds. 1:15:23.800 --> 1:15:27.160 He's but also has hunting. Same thing. What I'm getting 1:15:27.200 --> 1:15:30.639 at is this guy likes the fall turkey hunt because 1:15:30.680 --> 1:15:35.439 he likes those damn dogs, raises breeds and sells the 1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:39.920 dog whose specialty is busting up turkeys. There's a guy 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:44.240 over in east central Wisconsin that does the turkey dogs 1:15:44.680 --> 1:15:48.120 and he gets his dogs from some place Virginia. I 1:15:48.160 --> 1:15:50.760 guess there's there's a I think one of the fun 1:15:50.840 --> 1:15:54.880 things about people what's hunting dogs is just how into 1:15:54.960 --> 1:15:57.000 it they get. And this guy drives all the way 1:15:57.000 --> 1:15:58.680 to Virginia. I get that when you breed a dog, 1:15:58.760 --> 1:16:01.360 which I forget the the breed now because I'm not 1:16:01.400 --> 1:16:04.439 a dog personal turkey busting dog, turkey busting dog. And 1:16:04.760 --> 1:16:09.040 and and he's um John Freezes his name f R. E. 1:16:09.240 --> 1:16:11.880 I s I think, And he's such like he loves 1:16:12.400 --> 1:16:16.320 that sports so much that he'll actually take anyone that 1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:19.360 calls him along. A guy. A guy wrote to me 1:16:19.400 --> 1:16:21.679 there a day city looked up this guy after reading 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:23.800 my article, called him up, found his name in the 1:16:23.840 --> 1:16:26.880 phone book of Rubber and John invite him up from Chicago. 1:16:26.960 --> 1:16:29.599 I think took him hunting, showed him a good time. 1:16:29.680 --> 1:16:32.400 And of course the day I went up a seconds, 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:34.599 I think he got one. I think he got one. Yeah, 1:16:34.760 --> 1:16:38.320 but yeah, that hens are legal games, so no, yeah, 1:16:38.360 --> 1:16:41.480 I want to clarify, I do not have any problem whatsoever. 1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:47.200 So long is the stable that that that is you 1:16:47.280 --> 1:16:49.240 know that you have a good stable population of birds 1:16:49.320 --> 1:16:54.200 that hunters agree is a good stable population of birds. 1:16:54.600 --> 1:17:00.120 But in hunting, um sort of traditional use patterns are 1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:04.160 very important and and management and very important how we 1:17:04.800 --> 1:17:09.400 make our laws. And I if it had to come 1:17:09.439 --> 1:17:11.360 down and we had to pick spring or fall, I'm 1:17:11.400 --> 1:17:14.920 always gonna go song. I think most turkey hunt it's 1:17:14.960 --> 1:17:17.800 they don't call it spring fund it's spring thunder, right, 1:17:17.840 --> 1:17:20.000 they don't call that for no reason. It's not fall thunder, 1:17:20.720 --> 1:17:25.280 spring thunder Turkey. And I just feel like if someone's 1:17:25.320 --> 1:17:30.680 gonna have to get trimmed out definitely. If we do 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:33.640 see lowering turkey numbers and someone's gotta get trimmed out, 1:17:33.720 --> 1:17:35.760 I'm sorry, but I'm gonna vote for it. Being the 1:17:35.840 --> 1:17:38.439 other guy, and my guests would be that you won't 1:17:38.479 --> 1:17:42.040 see that happening. As long as our hunting seasons are 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:45.120 dominated by deer hunters, the fall hunt for deer hunting 1:17:45.120 --> 1:17:48.000 and bowl hunting wives gonna be so popular that that 1:17:48.120 --> 1:17:50.000 interest in turkey hunting wife is gonna be secondary. And 1:17:50.080 --> 1:17:52.800 plus you have waterfalling going on. So I just don't 1:17:52.920 --> 1:17:55.400 I don't think we've ever seen any any evidence in Wisconsin, 1:17:55.520 --> 1:17:57.679 WAGH in most states i'm aware of that has any 1:17:57.760 --> 1:18:03.320 problem with fall turkey hunting being a detriment, population irrelevant, 1:18:03.360 --> 1:18:09.960 basically good recreation. Like the take isn't substantial. It's almost 1:18:10.040 --> 1:18:17.160 like it's uh coincidental to other kind of hunting incidental incident. Well, okay, 1:18:17.960 --> 1:18:20.600 it's like Tyson sitting sitting in a tree with a 1:18:21.080 --> 1:18:23.960 four ten shooting squirrels with his bowl. This is the 1:18:24.160 --> 1:18:28.080 same kind of thing. Understand he he deer hunts with 1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:30.439 a four tent. He shoots squirrels with his four ten 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:33.840 while bow hunting for deer. Yeah, and it's actually killed 1:18:33.880 --> 1:18:38.640 deer that way him so and used always say that, 1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:42.040 see if I can get a turkey that way too. 1:18:42.640 --> 1:18:46.120 So I kind of killed a turkey off his land. 1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:49.439 I think now I was on was right on the 1:18:49.479 --> 1:18:51.680 fence line there though, But that's where he actually did 1:18:51.720 --> 1:18:55.200 where he actually shot squirrels and then shot a buck. 1:18:55.439 --> 1:18:58.080 I don't know he was a squirrel hunter. Yeah, well 1:18:58.160 --> 1:19:01.640 not not not h Murphy level. He doesn't like go 1:19:01.760 --> 1:19:04.840 to work with the tails hanging off his hanging off 1:19:04.920 --> 1:19:09.720 his jacket and whatnot. Um. In the fall in the 1:19:09.760 --> 1:19:13.400 state of Wisconsin, the hunt turkey hunters killed almost five 1:19:13.520 --> 1:19:18.960 thousand turkeys. How many killing spring? Yeah, roughly they killed 1:19:19.000 --> 1:19:22.240 five thousand in the fall. Does it say the hand 1:19:22.520 --> 1:19:26.519 tom breakdown? Uh? And that was just the abstract. I 1:19:26.640 --> 1:19:30.200 just breezed through, so I didn't get down to the numbers. 1:19:31.400 --> 1:19:34.639 I see, you're running a Green Bay Packers turtleneck under 1:19:34.680 --> 1:19:37.679 your shirt for your benefit. Can I make a quick 1:19:37.760 --> 1:19:40.760 correction though? I was wrong. I was wrong about the Uh, 1:19:41.720 --> 1:19:44.760 the female hand harvest in Montana in the spring, it 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:47.559 was all they increased the numbers dramatically. It's like four, 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:51.000 but it's all fall. So there's no, no hand harvest 1:19:51.080 --> 1:19:54.400 in the spring good because come on, yeah, come on 1:19:55.920 --> 1:20:02.600 a buddy mine Tommy Edson, Um, you know he's a 1:20:02.640 --> 1:20:04.800 little bit baffled by no. But he likes sports. He 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:07.479 likes college sports. He doesn't like pro sports. But in 1:20:07.640 --> 1:20:12.439 Washington State they just did the fishing rags. Can remembers 1:20:12.479 --> 1:20:14.640 the hunting rags of the fishing rags, but they did 1:20:14.720 --> 1:20:19.640 it in the Seahawks colors. He texts the cover to 1:20:19.680 --> 1:20:29.000 me and it's like, it's nothing sacred. Pat Durkin, you 1:20:29.040 --> 1:20:31.760 want to hear the breakdown real quickly. Just gonna close 1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:38.000 her out, but go ahead. It's a roughly fifty fifty fall. Yeah. 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:45.920 Females to males and adult female surprisingly made up thirty 1:20:46.640 --> 1:20:50.439 of the total harvest. Juvenile hands eighteen, Gobbler's thirty five, 1:20:50.640 --> 1:20:56.560 Jake's twelve. M Yeah, so what's really incidental? Past? So 1:20:56.640 --> 1:21:01.200 you're running a Green Bay Packers notebook? That too? Yeah, 1:21:02.680 --> 1:21:05.479 if you had to pick, if, if if you had 1:21:05.560 --> 1:21:08.120 to pick, and someone said you can hunt the rest 1:21:08.120 --> 1:21:10.400 of your life or watch the Packers the rest of 1:21:10.439 --> 1:21:16.800 your life, what did you pick? Hunting maney in clothes? Good? Yeah, good? 1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:19.160 I actually miss quite a few games in the fall. 1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:23.040 Why don't you have a hunting turtleneck? Janni hasn't given 1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:34.120 me one. Uh. One of my comments on on the 1:21:34.240 --> 1:21:37.360 Packer Steve will be this is gonna count as your 1:21:37.360 --> 1:21:42.320 concluding thought. Oh, I forget that. Then I came up 1:21:42.320 --> 1:21:44.320 with a concluding thought. You know what I'm gonna do. 1:21:44.320 --> 1:21:46.680 I'm gonna give you mine. So now you are too 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:50.880 concluding thoughts. Okay, um, I've I've told my kids, I've 1:21:50.920 --> 1:21:53.000 told my wife, I told close friends. Getting back to 1:21:53.080 --> 1:21:56.360 your whole stuff about funerals, this is the packers part. 1:21:56.640 --> 1:21:59.479 The packers stuff. If the day, when the day comes 1:21:59.520 --> 1:22:03.200 that I die, if I haven't done that will that will? 1:22:03.520 --> 1:22:05.120 I mean? And they're the ones that have to take 1:22:05.160 --> 1:22:07.040 care of me. And I guess I should say, when 1:22:07.080 --> 1:22:10.000 that day comes and they come to write my obituary, 1:22:10.600 --> 1:22:13.240 if I haven't done enough in my life to fill 1:22:13.360 --> 1:22:17.439 that obituary with substantial stuff, if they write them there 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:19.400 he was a he was a die hard Packer fan. 1:22:19.840 --> 1:22:22.680 I'll be pissed because I'll think that that's what I 1:22:22.720 --> 1:22:24.840 accomplish in life, is anyone can be a Packer fan. 1:22:24.960 --> 1:22:27.600 So you want to live a life so full that 1:22:27.720 --> 1:22:30.880 when one fills up ex column inches of space. They 1:22:30.920 --> 1:22:34.360 do not have to get down that part of it. 1:22:34.520 --> 1:22:37.080 There won't be no no filling of this. It'll be 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:39.479 like and the next thing days He had two cats, 1:22:40.520 --> 1:22:46.720 survived Fluffy and survived by When I see it and 1:22:46.840 --> 1:22:49.760 everybody will know it's good right. He was a die 1:22:49.800 --> 1:22:55.280 hard packer. When I see that in people's obituaries, I 1:22:55.280 --> 1:22:57.360 always feel like, God, that's the best you can come 1:22:57.439 --> 1:22:59.640 up with for your good old dad. He was a 1:22:59.720 --> 1:23:02.560 pack or fan is a badger fan. Come on. So 1:23:03.760 --> 1:23:06.320 that that was the one conclining thoughts. That's my instructions 1:23:06.360 --> 1:23:07.880 to my kids. That's the one I gave you, not 1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:10.439 giving you one the one I want to. I want to. 1:23:10.600 --> 1:23:12.519 I actually did thought this last week. I was down 1:23:12.600 --> 1:23:15.720 the Southeast Dear Study Group meeting it's doing. It was 1:23:15.760 --> 1:23:18.240 in Nashville this year, and I thought of you guys, 1:23:18.280 --> 1:23:20.640 because only studied deer of the Southeast or it's like 1:23:20.720 --> 1:23:23.320 in the Southeast, it's it's he it's held in the Southeast. 1:23:23.360 --> 1:23:25.439 And most of the research I do is is from 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:30.400 the Southeastern Universities in Southeastern UM all operations that have 1:23:30.600 --> 1:23:33.760 like hunting clubs on their property and they actually do 1:23:33.920 --> 1:23:36.439 some research on it, and typically what it is, it's 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:41.360 agency people, agency researchers that could be agencies from the 1:23:41.400 --> 1:23:45.200 federal government, state government. UM. Then also university and their 1:23:45.720 --> 1:23:48.360 graduate students and their doctoral students come in and get 1:23:48.400 --> 1:23:51.760 their research on deer and they all sounds pretty good. 1:23:51.800 --> 1:23:53.479 It's it's to me, I've been I've been going that 1:23:53.560 --> 1:23:56.519 was st year, gone to it and well you're going 1:23:56.600 --> 1:23:59.920 for twenty eight years. I started into this. I'll point 1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:02.880 know that Pat has more stuffed deer in his house 1:24:02.960 --> 1:24:08.800 than he's gone to that convention am than on this 1:24:08.880 --> 1:24:12.960 past year. But elk anyway, um so one of the 1:24:13.040 --> 1:24:14.400 things that must sting a lot in the in the 1:24:14.479 --> 1:24:18.680 southeast though, because it's a um a growing population still is. 1:24:19.880 --> 1:24:22.200 I'll say the word two different ways, you know, coyote 1:24:22.320 --> 1:24:24.280 the way I pronounced it and coyotes the way you're 1:24:24.320 --> 1:24:28.840 dugging you guys pronounce it. I'll call yeah, and if 1:24:28.880 --> 1:24:30.559 you really hate him, and then I don't hate him, 1:24:30.560 --> 1:24:32.400 but guys that do hate him, I find call him 1:24:34.439 --> 1:24:37.240 that The first thing I thought about you guys, because 1:24:37.760 --> 1:24:40.200 most of those I know, it's most of the university 1:24:40.280 --> 1:24:44.000 researchers pronounce a coyote. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. 1:24:44.040 --> 1:24:49.240 You know the ronella maxim on this right right? Yeah, 1:24:49.600 --> 1:24:55.240 So that they exactly and so I thought, well, there 1:24:55.320 --> 1:24:57.040 goes Steve's theory because these guys, a lot of them 1:24:57.080 --> 1:24:59.720 are are trappers and they do a lot of reason 1:24:59.800 --> 1:25:02.920 still say coyote, coyote. Yeah, but um, I'll never switch. 1:25:03.400 --> 1:25:05.639 You don't have to, Steve, But but continue, I'll messing 1:25:05.680 --> 1:25:08.599 your story up. So there are year you've gone down. Okay, 1:25:08.680 --> 1:25:12.280 So one one the takeaways when the coolest papers I 1:25:12.360 --> 1:25:15.200 thought they presented was on was that on coyotes. And 1:25:15.400 --> 1:25:18.639 this guy named John Kilgual, he's a researcher from South Carolina. 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:23.240 He you guys know that the typical theory on coyote 1:25:23.600 --> 1:25:26.680 um and why they can repopulate so quickly that the 1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:29.519 more you hammer them, they more they pop up. So 1:25:29.680 --> 1:25:32.080 this is based on research from the West. Basically that 1:25:32.880 --> 1:25:36.479 they the researchers looked at cadets out west and said, 1:25:36.960 --> 1:25:39.160 and more you shoot these things, the more they bounced back. 1:25:39.240 --> 1:25:42.720 So it's it's a feudal a fool's aaron to try 1:25:42.720 --> 1:25:45.200 to white pop coyotes. Can I can I add something? 1:25:45.880 --> 1:25:48.639 Go ahead. I hear this all the time. I hear 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:50.599 and and and it's I don't have a hard time 1:25:50.680 --> 1:25:53.040 like that's easy to imagine. I think it's I think 1:25:53.080 --> 1:25:55.800 it's from what I've looked at, it's like, sure, that's 1:25:55.920 --> 1:25:59.320 that's true. If that was the case, then I would 1:25:59.360 --> 1:26:05.280 think that really pro kyo people would want hunters to 1:26:05.439 --> 1:26:09.840 hammer coyotes because it would make more coyotes. I like 1:26:10.000 --> 1:26:12.720 the argument, but they don't. They don't. They use it 1:26:12.800 --> 1:26:15.240 as a way to say, I like kyles, I want 1:26:15.320 --> 1:26:18.400 more kyles. You shouldn't shoot kyles because shooting kyotes made 1:26:18.439 --> 1:26:21.439 more kyles, and you wind up in this weird sort 1:26:21.479 --> 1:26:25.400 of rhetorical land. Uh. He made that point in one 1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:29.080 of your podcasts a while back. No, it's it's it's 1:26:29.560 --> 1:26:31.920 it's a it's a point worth repeating because I think 1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:35.519 it's it's it's a great point. And So, but what 1:26:35.680 --> 1:26:38.479 was fast thing about John John Kilgo's research I thought 1:26:38.600 --> 1:26:42.280 was that so that's the common thought that based on 1:26:42.400 --> 1:26:45.720 Western research, that the more counties you shoot, the more 1:26:45.800 --> 1:26:48.439 they will generate. They have a mechanism that's somehow they 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:54.559 triggered this compensatory um or what they call compensatory mortality whatever. Anyway, 1:26:55.080 --> 1:26:57.720 John John's group went out in like over a two 1:26:57.840 --> 1:27:00.880 or three year period, trapped two or three five coyotes. 1:27:01.920 --> 1:27:06.960 Start checking to see is there evidence of boosted boosting 1:27:07.000 --> 1:27:10.280 the population to reproduction. But I found was that no, 1:27:10.680 --> 1:27:15.439 there's no compensatory reproduction taking place. Her. What's happening. The 1:27:15.520 --> 1:27:18.360 more the more you whack this one area, the more 1:27:18.400 --> 1:27:21.200 they come flooding in from the exterior areas. So unless 1:27:21.200 --> 1:27:25.040 you can have this huge geographic area where you use hammering, 1:27:25.080 --> 1:27:28.120 the hell of these coyotes, they just keep coming back. 1:27:28.320 --> 1:27:32.599 And so his completing thought was, it's it's it's futile. 1:27:32.920 --> 1:27:35.519 We've gotta going to live with these counties. Yeah, they 1:27:35.520 --> 1:27:38.240 will perhaps adjust your what is at some point, but 1:27:38.439 --> 1:27:41.880 um that you're not gonna ever stole down this this animal. 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:45.000 They're gonna keep coming back, bouncing back. So they didn't 1:27:45.000 --> 1:27:48.720 find the compensatory thing that head out west. But but 1:27:48.920 --> 1:27:51.640 but here's the thing though not the thing, but the 1:27:51.720 --> 1:27:54.320 thing to considered. I think that that reflects that research 1:27:54.960 --> 1:27:58.400 is we we discussed this before. Well, they're doing there's 1:27:58.439 --> 1:28:02.680 there's an area in Colorado where they're they're they're not 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:05.800 seeing good recruitment on mule deer, and they're worried about 1:28:05.800 --> 1:28:10.240 an isolated mule deer herd in Colorado, And what they're 1:28:10.240 --> 1:28:15.200 trying to do is slow down the predation loss of fawns. 1:28:16.000 --> 1:28:17.880 So in the old days, you might have gone in 1:28:18.160 --> 1:28:20.400 and tried to do a lot of predator removal work, 1:28:20.520 --> 1:28:24.519 just generally throughout the year, try to do predator removal work. 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:27.600 But what they found is what I think they were 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:30.000 going to try was instead of doing it that way 1:28:30.080 --> 1:28:33.800 where you're like removing predators in October, say in hopes 1:28:33.880 --> 1:28:38.120 of having a good fawn crop in May, is that 1:28:38.240 --> 1:28:41.080 you would try to do it in a very targeted 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:48.919 way that was removing the predator load. However, temporarily removing 1:28:49.000 --> 1:28:51.960 the predator load at a precise moment when you want 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:54.760 it down. Because of that thing you're saying, you do 1:28:54.880 --> 1:28:56.760 all the work in October. Oh yeah, you know, we 1:28:56.880 --> 1:29:00.200 killed four lions out of this basin. We're hoping see 1:29:00.240 --> 1:29:03.280 a bunch of fawn recruitment, but in that time it's 1:29:03.320 --> 1:29:05.600 just been backfilled. So to try to work in and 1:29:05.680 --> 1:29:11.080 go like to come in and do it commensurate, they're not, 1:29:11.439 --> 1:29:14.840 you know, at the same time, in order to try 1:29:14.840 --> 1:29:19.680 to alleviate the predator load. HM. That's interesting, isn't that 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:22.559 Taking that idea of like, um, you were explaining when 1:29:22.600 --> 1:29:25.200 we were in Alaska about how Caribo we all dropped 1:29:25.200 --> 1:29:28.680 their fonds, uh or their calves. I mean you have 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:31.240 a short period of time to sort of overload their 1:29:31.560 --> 1:29:36.240 overload the predator swamping, thinking that if you were to 1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:38.479 trickle it out over two months, you're gonna lose them all. 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:40.720 But they all hit the ground on the same day 1:29:40.760 --> 1:29:44.080 and they're vulnerable for how many ever hours or days afterwards, 1:29:44.160 --> 1:29:46.680 you're gonna have some survival. Yeah, And typically it makes 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:49.439 sense what you're talking about, because you know, the other 1:29:49.479 --> 1:29:52.160 thing the researchers always show is that basically those fonds 1:29:52.200 --> 1:29:55.000 make it two or three months, they're not the point 1:29:55.080 --> 1:29:58.320 they can run, you know, the different predators and you know, 1:29:58.920 --> 1:30:00.640 have a decent chance to s Having it said, the 1:30:00.760 --> 1:30:03.080 first couple of weeks they were like get hammered by 1:30:03.240 --> 1:30:06.040 you know, it's bears or coyotes, rivers in the area. 1:30:06.120 --> 1:30:09.639 That's a big predator. But you know, and then there's 1:30:09.680 --> 1:30:12.320 areas like in Wisconsin and most of the north eastern 1:30:12.400 --> 1:30:15.080 part of the country where we've had these two animals, 1:30:15.160 --> 1:30:18.720 counties and white tails, living side by side for at 1:30:18.760 --> 1:30:20.920 least in modern areas at least a century now, and 1:30:21.000 --> 1:30:24.080 there does really not have much impact on them. Yeah, 1:30:24.360 --> 1:30:26.519 I like, I agree with the assessment that there's just 1:30:27.120 --> 1:30:28.760 that you're gonna have to I mean, how does your 1:30:29.560 --> 1:30:34.280 cotes kyle through expanding their range right, more people can 1:30:34.360 --> 1:30:37.240 have to live with them. And what it would take 1:30:38.320 --> 1:30:44.000 two get rid of them is what things that we've 1:30:44.040 --> 1:30:47.360 tried in the past without without great effect, with tremendous 1:30:48.760 --> 1:30:53.360 um unintended consequences, which is that you'd go back into 1:30:53.720 --> 1:30:58.360 playing the poison game, which is devastating to so many 1:30:58.439 --> 1:31:03.680 species that think he's right. But I don't think that. 1:31:05.960 --> 1:31:09.040 I don't think that it would that someone would look 1:31:09.080 --> 1:31:15.120 at all that and think that using predator control, having 1:31:15.160 --> 1:31:18.160 that be part of your tool kit and using research 1:31:18.240 --> 1:31:20.120 to learn how to use it more effectively. I think 1:31:20.120 --> 1:31:25.800 that it's going to remain a good management tool um 1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:30.000 as long as it's stays socially acceptable. And I would 1:31:30.040 --> 1:31:31.400 be like I would, you know, I would be very 1:31:31.439 --> 1:31:35.519 disappointed if we at some point decided that that it 1:31:35.640 --> 1:31:37.880 wasn't something we're gonna use because at times it can 1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:45.360 be very effective in recovering stabilizing populations. And the thing 1:31:45.439 --> 1:31:49.080 that I always find fastening when I, you know, work 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:51.400 on this kind of stuff is the guys who will 1:31:51.439 --> 1:31:55.840 have a county contest, which can be controversial, and the 1:31:55.960 --> 1:31:59.479 justification will quick jump to, as we are these counties 1:31:59.600 --> 1:32:01.600 so that the deer have a chance to liver on 1:32:01.680 --> 1:32:05.960 this area. And I think that's emails. Just worry about 1:32:05.960 --> 1:32:08.680 how many how many counties being killed on the highway then, 1:32:08.680 --> 1:32:11.720 because you know that's just most nothing. So let's just 1:32:12.320 --> 1:32:14.640 I guess my point. Let's let's argue these things on 1:32:14.800 --> 1:32:17.960 the fact that you're having fun, you're not harming anything. 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:25.000 Um well well yeah, but but but but the pelts 1:32:25.040 --> 1:32:26.960 too are worthwhile. I don't see why you have to 1:32:26.960 --> 1:32:30.000 apologize for killing a fur bearer and taking the pelt. 1:32:31.120 --> 1:32:34.439 But the thing is, well, yeah, you can go look 1:32:34.479 --> 1:32:37.400 at what they can do with caribou herds by doing 1:32:37.680 --> 1:32:41.000 wolf work in Alaska. It's not like there are times 1:32:41.040 --> 1:32:43.599 when it's total effective. Go read up on the history 1:32:43.600 --> 1:32:48.160 of the forty Yeah. Well, no one's saying that pats 1:32:48.160 --> 1:32:50.240 don't have an impact. I've never tried to make that claim, 1:32:50.240 --> 1:32:53.639 but I guess I'm saying the case in kyote. It's 1:32:53.680 --> 1:32:56.840 hard to say that they're really um, that they are 1:32:57.240 --> 1:33:00.240 causing problems in some areas, but what can you actually, dude, 1:33:00.240 --> 1:33:02.120 have stopped it. You know you're not gonna stop that 1:33:02.200 --> 1:33:04.280 county that eventually they'll probably find a way around that 1:33:04.360 --> 1:33:09.920 one too, you know, So that's all I'm saying. Huh, Doug, 1:33:10.640 --> 1:33:13.960 I noticed that we both said coyote rather than coyote. Well, 1:33:14.160 --> 1:33:15.360 just because you know you want to be here, he 1:33:15.479 --> 1:33:20.280 kept saying coyote. Soas in my head, I I quit hunting. 1:33:20.760 --> 1:33:24.200 I've never hunted him. That was incidental shooting the occasional 1:33:24.280 --> 1:33:30.280 coyote kot um. But and now I'm welcome and was 1:33:30.320 --> 1:33:36.000 a part of the control during landscape. Well yeah, it's 1:33:36.160 --> 1:33:38.360 I means they're just out there trying to make a 1:33:38.400 --> 1:33:41.519 living too. It's really interesting to me out walking around 1:33:41.600 --> 1:33:45.080 in the wintertime when you can follow and watch how 1:33:45.120 --> 1:33:47.720 they sort of hunt. They're real good moochers. They have 1:33:47.840 --> 1:33:50.800 a real their pattern, Like three you know a group 1:33:50.880 --> 1:33:53.120 of them and you watch their trails and it's like 1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:56.040 they're hunting the same way. They're either learning from me 1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:58.400 or I'm learning from them. You haven't figured out which 1:33:58.400 --> 1:34:01.320 one yet. Many many many years years ago we did 1:34:01.400 --> 1:34:04.479 a mooch and uh we moved to kylets past me. 1:34:06.560 --> 1:34:09.439 Uh yeah, I don't have I don't have like when 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:13.559 I see one, I don't um when I see one, 1:34:13.600 --> 1:34:15.000 I don't even like doesn't even I don't I have 1:34:15.160 --> 1:34:18.599 no thought in my head about uh taking a poke 1:34:18.680 --> 1:34:23.120 at it. It's not that tasty. No, the last one 1:34:23.160 --> 1:34:25.840 I killed, we ate. It just wasn't worth it to me. 1:34:26.560 --> 1:34:30.360 And uh, you know, I sold some when I was younger, 1:34:31.120 --> 1:34:34.599 and fur prices were better sold with the tax nurvery trade. 1:34:35.439 --> 1:34:39.640 Um before this is before they exploded in numbers. And 1:34:40.000 --> 1:34:41.600 now yeah, when I see one, it's just like not 1:34:41.800 --> 1:34:44.320 even like like there's no part of me that's like, 1:34:44.360 --> 1:34:47.840 oh man, I want to get that thing. Yeah, I'm fast, 1:34:47.880 --> 1:34:51.200 I'm fascinating, very very personally, it just like doesn't click. 1:34:52.360 --> 1:34:56.040 I'll actually watch um segments of shows once while their 1:34:56.120 --> 1:35:00.320 hunting County West or someplace, or I stumbled into a 1:35:01.080 --> 1:35:04.120 hunt recently near Lodi where guys were out in their 1:35:04.160 --> 1:35:07.200 trucks with their hounds and getting ready to do a hunt. 1:35:07.240 --> 1:35:10.080 And if I hadn't been so pressed for time, I 1:35:10.120 --> 1:35:13.160 would have stopped and tagged along because I think it's 1:35:13.200 --> 1:35:15.639 kind of a fascinating process. Oh yeah, that is for sure. 1:35:15.960 --> 1:35:17.719 But it's like the same thing. I don't watch the packers, 1:35:17.800 --> 1:35:19.759 but I don't think that it's bad to watch the packers. 1:35:19.840 --> 1:35:23.880 I just have no desire to watch the packers. I 1:35:24.080 --> 1:35:26.000 think you've made it clear over the years that you 1:35:26.120 --> 1:35:29.479 just have no interest in that. It's not like I'm 1:35:29.479 --> 1:35:32.160 not like making a statement about the morality of packer watching. 1:35:32.680 --> 1:35:36.519 You you got any concluders, m I didn't know what 1:35:36.680 --> 1:35:39.360 was that time? Already? You're ready to be done? Huh? 1:35:40.800 --> 1:35:43.519 Get nothing other topics for me? No, I feel like 1:35:43.640 --> 1:35:46.840 I know, I mean, I feel like I just have 1:35:47.040 --> 1:35:51.240 that feeling like, well, we have this this fella. Uh 1:35:52.040 --> 1:35:57.200 As my concluding thought, I'm gonna Greg w wrote in 1:35:57.680 --> 1:36:02.879 to uh say that, uh, speaking of the meat tree episode, 1:36:03.240 --> 1:36:06.960 that really what really stood out to him was everyone's 1:36:06.960 --> 1:36:11.520 perception of the event in hindsight, and he was surprised 1:36:11.800 --> 1:36:13.919 to hear me say that I felt a little guilty 1:36:13.960 --> 1:36:16.639 and regretful towards the experience, which just just how high 1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:21.160 I would have described my reaction to it. But about 1:36:21.160 --> 1:36:23.599 a bear attack, yeah, the Bear Attack. If you haven't 1:36:23.640 --> 1:36:26.519 listened to it, go listen to episodes eight six and 1:36:26.560 --> 1:36:29.840 eighties seven titled The Meat Tree Part one and two. 1:36:30.880 --> 1:36:35.080 And uh, and Steve, you felt grateful for the newfounded wisdom, 1:36:36.120 --> 1:36:38.800 and Uh, I just want to, you know, follow up 1:36:38.840 --> 1:36:40.640 to him and say that I do feel grateful for 1:36:40.760 --> 1:36:45.120 that wisdom. You know that we obviously, I'm gonna my 1:36:46.400 --> 1:36:51.480 tactics now going into Bear country are much better educated, 1:36:51.640 --> 1:36:54.800 you know, than what we're gonna do when we're out there. Right. Yeah, 1:36:54.840 --> 1:36:57.000 But I think that he was saying. What he was 1:36:57.040 --> 1:36:59.839 saying is that you felt like a level of response 1:37:00.000 --> 1:37:02.519 ability and felt that if something bad had happened, it 1:37:02.640 --> 1:37:05.439 would have been in some ways on your shoulders. Yeah. 1:37:05.640 --> 1:37:07.559 Well there was that, and I still feel that way. 1:37:07.560 --> 1:37:09.760 But I think he was maybe talking and talking about 1:37:09.800 --> 1:37:12.040 how at the end you and Garret were like glad 1:37:12.160 --> 1:37:15.439 that happened. That was awesome, and I was kind of like, yeah, 1:37:15.600 --> 1:37:18.760 I could maybe do without it, you know. And he 1:37:18.800 --> 1:37:20.640 wants to know if you've changed. Yeah, you want to 1:37:20.720 --> 1:37:23.160 know if I if my feelings had changed about it. Okay, 1:37:23.200 --> 1:37:26.160 so if you could snap a wave a magic wand 1:37:26.560 --> 1:37:28.600 and have it had not happened, would you wave the 1:37:28.640 --> 1:37:35.800 Wand probably not? Now again, there was there is value 1:37:35.840 --> 1:37:38.120 in the experience, right, But at the time I just 1:37:38.240 --> 1:37:40.240 felt like it was it was so intense and it 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:43.519 could have gone so awry that that was making me 1:37:43.600 --> 1:37:45.720 make the call of like, you know what, I rather 1:37:45.840 --> 1:37:48.040 it had not had happened, you know, thinking that maybe, 1:37:48.320 --> 1:37:49.840 but if if it's all going to play out the 1:37:49.920 --> 1:37:52.439 same way and we all walk out of there and 1:37:52.560 --> 1:37:55.160 get to just talk about it, then sure, why to 1:37:55.240 --> 1:37:58.200 have a good story. Yeah, no, dirt myth had been 1:37:58.280 --> 1:38:01.640 carried off and killed. Yes, And he said would you 1:38:01.720 --> 1:38:04.519 wave the magic Wand of course I'd be like, oh, 1:38:04.640 --> 1:38:08.640 wave wave rolled dirt. But dirt was a couple of 1:38:08.680 --> 1:38:10.200 weeks before when we were up there, he had the 1:38:10.280 --> 1:38:13.439 encounter with that grizzly saw who came down over the 1:38:13.520 --> 1:38:16.519 hill and he was brushing his teeth, And when we 1:38:16.600 --> 1:38:19.360 were sitting around talking about it later, he goes, well, 1:38:19.400 --> 1:38:20.680 I think it'd be kind of cool if I'd get 1:38:20.720 --> 1:38:24.120 a scar from a grizzly bear. Careful what you wish for, dude. 1:38:24.120 --> 1:38:29.320 We're magnets for him man, just lurking around. Um, so 1:38:29.400 --> 1:38:32.240 you would not wave the magic wind? Do you feel 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:35.639 like our luck is running thinner? I think it got thick. 1:38:35.760 --> 1:38:38.560 Now you think it got thick. I think it was 1:38:38.600 --> 1:38:42.360 getting thin thin, thin, thin, thin, and then that happened 1:38:43.080 --> 1:38:45.519 and now it's gotten thick, thick, thick thick. Like Let's 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:46.880 say you let's say you were all stud in the 1:38:46.960 --> 1:38:49.759 plane rack right, also the small plane the plane crashes 1:38:49.800 --> 1:38:52.120 that we all walk away. What are I wouldn't think 1:38:52.120 --> 1:38:54.280 that we're going to be in another plane crash? And 1:38:54.320 --> 1:38:58.120 the book Dispatches by Michael Hare, which is his He 1:38:58.280 --> 1:39:00.439 covered the He covered the vi He was a journalists 1:39:00.439 --> 1:39:02.160 that covered the Vietnam War, then came home and wrote 1:39:02.160 --> 1:39:05.479 a book about Vietnam called Dispatches. And he meets a 1:39:05.600 --> 1:39:08.479 kid in the book, he meets a kid from Miles City. 1:39:09.479 --> 1:39:12.040 And every day, or not every day, but whenever he 1:39:12.120 --> 1:39:15.760 gets a list of fatalities, and there in the military publication, 1:39:16.120 --> 1:39:18.240 he's always looking in there hoping to see someone from 1:39:18.320 --> 1:39:21.120 Miles City on the list. And Michael Harris, why do 1:39:21.160 --> 1:39:22.960 you want to see someone from Miles City on the list? 1:39:23.000 --> 1:39:24.880 He goes, because we're the chance of two guys from 1:39:24.920 --> 1:39:28.400 Miles City are gonna get killed in this war. So 1:39:29.160 --> 1:39:31.200 I feel like that, like if you are in a plane, 1:39:31.200 --> 1:39:33.040 if we're in a plane crash, I'd be like, well, 1:39:33.240 --> 1:39:36.800 I'm glad everyone lived because that was our crash. We're 1:39:36.840 --> 1:39:39.639 not gonna have another crash because you feel that way 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:42.960 that we've had like our like I think, very very 1:39:43.040 --> 1:39:48.000 close in that direction. I feel like things were going 1:39:48.080 --> 1:39:51.719 in that direction and now they went in that direction, 1:39:52.120 --> 1:39:54.200 and now they will walk away. I don't think that 1:39:54.280 --> 1:39:57.439 we're still on the slope. I think that that was 1:39:57.720 --> 1:40:01.080 the valley floor. I don't know why. That's just my feeling. 1:40:01.880 --> 1:40:03.560 I feel like it was. This sounds like something you 1:40:03.680 --> 1:40:06.280 or your old man would say, but I feel like 1:40:07.439 --> 1:40:10.000 that was the valley floor from which we will now 1:40:10.880 --> 1:40:15.040 climb out, partially because our again, our tactics and are 1:40:15.160 --> 1:40:17.600 and the way we go about in that country might change. No, 1:40:17.920 --> 1:40:20.840 it's more, it's not it's not based on logic. It's 1:40:20.840 --> 1:40:25.160 based on just the way because other things, other encounters. 1:40:26.120 --> 1:40:29.640 I feel like it didn't other encounters. I feel like 1:40:29.680 --> 1:40:34.680 there were unspoken words between us and the bear or 1:40:34.800 --> 1:40:38.280 like you know, but this felt like just hitting the 1:40:38.400 --> 1:40:44.360 valley floor, it felt like, Okay, that's where that was headed. Now. 1:40:45.320 --> 1:40:51.880 I expect quietness based on nothing, based on nothing? Well, 1:40:51.960 --> 1:40:54.360 what brought that up? As I was reading that story 1:40:54.400 --> 1:40:57.840 about that the Arctic Explorer, I was telling you about 1:40:58.120 --> 1:41:01.559 Antarctic Antarctic, sorry, and he was saying that every time 1:41:01.680 --> 1:41:05.559 they dropped a foot into a crevasse, which sometimes can 1:41:05.600 --> 1:41:08.599 be you know, a couple of inches of foot wine 1:41:08.880 --> 1:41:12.000 and and that same death, or it can be you know, 1:41:12.840 --> 1:41:15.439 giant multiples of that right too, and it can be 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:18.120 your death down there. But then every time that you 1:41:18.240 --> 1:41:21.720 punch your foot through, you're just like man, then you know, 1:41:21.760 --> 1:41:23.840 you're just getting closer and closer and closer, and your 1:41:23.920 --> 1:41:26.439 luck is just getting thinner and thinner and thinner and 1:41:26.520 --> 1:41:30.040 thinner and thinner. Yeah. I like that. But let's say 1:41:30.040 --> 1:41:33.880 you fell into one and caught yourself and climbed out, 1:41:34.760 --> 1:41:37.360 would you feel like okay, yeah, Like, now, what are 1:41:37.360 --> 1:41:41.080 the chances of following into a big one again? Pretty high? 1:41:42.040 --> 1:41:44.240 But you're saying it be less, So it just it 1:41:44.320 --> 1:41:47.280 depends on perception. Yeah, I hear you. This can't be measured. 1:41:47.760 --> 1:41:51.760 Aren't you afraid by even voicing this idea that you're 1:41:51.760 --> 1:41:57.720 bottomed out and going back up, that you're tempting fate? No, no, 1:41:58.080 --> 1:42:02.040 only because bears don't listen. They're not listening right now. 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:04.920 They're they're out in the woods just plotting, but they 1:42:04.960 --> 1:42:07.560 don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know. I 1:42:07.600 --> 1:42:09.280 feel that way. It doesn't make any sense. This is 1:42:09.360 --> 1:42:12.719 how I feel. It's almost irresponsible for me to share 1:42:12.800 --> 1:42:14.800 my thoughts on it. It makes so little sense. It 1:42:14.880 --> 1:42:18.320 just seems like an odds thing. You know that the 1:42:18.360 --> 1:42:21.320 odds are you won the lottery and now you're not 1:42:21.360 --> 1:42:23.640 gonna win it again, or you lost a lottery in 1:42:23.720 --> 1:42:28.519 that case, and now do dudes and yeah, do dudes 1:42:28.560 --> 1:42:33.439 who play the tax on stupidity and win? Are they like? 1:42:34.240 --> 1:42:38.400 Are they like? Are they like? H man, no point 1:42:38.439 --> 1:42:41.880 in buying another one of them tickets. They're going out 1:42:41.920 --> 1:42:45.599 and spending half of their winnings to buy more. All right, 1:42:46.680 --> 1:42:51.519 did I give you? You took one? I'm good. I 1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:53.840 feel like I'm back in good graces here, so I'm gonna, 1:42:53.960 --> 1:42:56.280 you know, I'm just gonna sit quietly for the rest 1:42:56.280 --> 1:42:58.280 of the time. Thanks for joining us.