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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely fog bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict anything, o, Pat Durkin and Doug Drn.

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Speaker 1: I guess not like you should be cousins. Almost No,

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Speaker 1: you know, I can see a little bit a lot

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Speaker 1: of skin up on top of your head. That's gonna say.

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Speaker 1: The ball guys are on one side of the room.

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Speaker 1: The guys with hair on the other side. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't like to get close to the ball guys. Robot.

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Speaker 1: I think you're safe, Steve, I'm really not. My wife

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Speaker 1: doesn't think that I am. Now you're safely. My grandfather,

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Speaker 1: my grandpappy, Glenn Coral, who was an avid muskie angler.

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Speaker 1: I don't even want to tell you his one of

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Speaker 1: the tricks, the muskie tricks he told me about, but

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Speaker 1: I will tell you from a bygone era. He was

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Speaker 1: telling me when I was a little boy. He liked

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Speaker 1: to fish muski. He like to fish crop ease. He

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Speaker 1: was telling me A good way to catch muskies is

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of terrible trying to think of how

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Speaker 1: to bring it up. I think just say it, man, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Glenn Coral my Perturn. My maternal grandfather, who was a

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Speaker 1: farmer and then went on to be to work for

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Speaker 1: a fire department. UM used to fish muskies by basically

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Speaker 1: harness rigging chipmunks, as he explained it to me, harness

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Speaker 1: rigging chipmunks which he would like deliver out into the

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Speaker 1: water by canoe and then and then go back and

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Speaker 1: fish it. Yeah, you remember what it said. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to ask the animal rights as well. And then too,

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Speaker 1: you think about when we were kids. We didn't know

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Speaker 1: it's the illegal, but we used to lip poock leopard frogs.

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Speaker 1: Oh every kid does that. I don't know if they

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Speaker 1: still do. But they were doing that when they mean,

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Speaker 1: and we was doing that. And so I ever caught

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Speaker 1: a fish that way though? Oh I did, And you're

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Speaker 1: I caught I do at night? I thought I catched

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Speaker 1: these big large mouth bass. When I caught was big

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Speaker 1: bullheads mean trophy bull fourteen fifteen trophy They hanging on

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Speaker 1: your wall next year, next hanging in your house. No,

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Speaker 1: but but we eat them on they were good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that point being Glen, my paternal maternal grandfather was a balder.

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Speaker 1: And you guys, well maybe not his balls does but

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Speaker 1: and uh, I suppose you like you catch it right,

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Speaker 1: you catch it from your maternal grandpa. My wife thinks

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Speaker 1: I'm thinning out now my barber doesn't. You can tell

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Speaker 1: your wife for me that. When I was in boot

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Speaker 1: camp at age nineteen, my hair was already later than

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Speaker 1: years as far as thickness, and they shaved my head

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Speaker 1: off and then I came back my hair was like

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Speaker 1: yours is. Now that's my ninet team. By twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: it was going fast. Yeah. Now, my bro uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got brothers who like staggered out ahead of me

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Speaker 1: a year and a half, eighteen months out and then

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Speaker 1: eighteen more months out. So I look at their heads

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Speaker 1: a lot. It changed their heads changed. Man, this was

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Speaker 1: a little yeah. Yeah, I got those widows speaks. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know. One quick question the guy wrote in A

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Speaker 1: UFO researcher just wrote in is that a real thing?

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Speaker 1: Someone he's claiming to be? One? YEA like to say,

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Speaker 1: you're like an ex researcher, Like, how hard is it

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Speaker 1: to prove it? He like he didn't have I don't

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Speaker 1: know that he has. Like if he walked into his house,

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Speaker 1: would he have like the little degrees hanging on the

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Speaker 1: wall but I think that when I see that, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I think you could be I think that you could

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Speaker 1: be a UM, I'm guessing he's a hobbyist. There's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of credentials that go along. Yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: think that you if you were someone who was like

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Speaker 1: if you were an astronomer, for instance, and you were

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Speaker 1: curious about life on other planets, I don't think you'd

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Speaker 1: write dudes like me to say, hey man, I'm a

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Speaker 1: UFO researcher, and as part of my research, I thought

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Speaker 1: i'd ask you, fellas who spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: out in the woods, if you've seen any evidence lately,

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Speaker 1: which is what this email was. Pat Um actually wrote

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Speaker 1: a part of a chapter of a book one time

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Speaker 1: on this guy his trail cameras up here north of

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Speaker 1: here in Buffalo Cony, and as trail cameras picked up

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Speaker 1: a UFO. UM, can you stop from it? When you

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Speaker 1: say that? Do you use it like UFO like lower

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Speaker 1: case or UFO like upper case upper case abbreviation? No? No No, No.

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Speaker 1: What I mean by that is if you see something

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Speaker 1: flying and you can't identify it, that's that's a UFO.

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Speaker 1: I think of that as a UFO lower case when

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Speaker 1: someone says like I saw uh a ufo and they

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Speaker 1: mean by that they mean not that they were not

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Speaker 1: able to identify it, but they mean that it was

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Speaker 1: a thing carrying aliens around. Definitely think of that as

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Speaker 1: you know a fellow that caught an upper case UFO

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Speaker 1: like an alien spacecraft on his trail camp. Definitely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wrote about it. I can even I'll have to

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Speaker 1: send you a copy of it. Just tell basically it was.

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Speaker 1: He just create picture of a doll in front of

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Speaker 1: a Chiel camera. Then in the back way in the

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Speaker 1: back you can see the distance a V shaped object,

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Speaker 1: and that V shaped object moved in those in those pictures.

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Speaker 1: It a series of pictures and then, coincidentally, about in

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Speaker 1: that same time period, by a week before a week after,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the specifics, there were reports by other

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Speaker 1: people in the area seeing this Uh it's only a

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Speaker 1: wedge shaped object that would pick up an halass out

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Speaker 1: of there. And this one guy taught the story about

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Speaker 1: these guys came flying down the road scared all their mind.

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Speaker 1: They've been driving and had seen this thing. And then

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Speaker 1: Tom was checking his trail cameras and Tom checks his

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Speaker 1: tail cames on his computer. He watches those pictures and

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Speaker 1: he's always seeing stuff and he knows his object back

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Speaker 1: there and it was read about dawn and this thing

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Speaker 1: actually did move in those pictures where you can see

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Speaker 1: it's not something that was a spec showed up in

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Speaker 1: the same spot, is actually something in a movement. Pat,

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Speaker 1: do you believe that? Um, I'm not a don't don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not asking you if you think that there is

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Speaker 1: life on other planets? Okay, okay. My brother was recently

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Speaker 1: explained to me that the number of other planets is

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Speaker 1: it's a imagine a one with I think something like

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Speaker 1: seventeen or twenty zeros after it. Mhm. He's a statistician

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Speaker 1: and he says, with that many planets, there is one

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Speaker 1: where there is a eight foot tall furry person who

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Speaker 1: is a smuggler in a spaceship, like there's that many planets.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I buy that, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: asked if you think there's live in our planets? Do

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Speaker 1: you think that right now there are a there are

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Speaker 1: people from other planets in amongst us flying around in

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Speaker 1: ships or do you think that he thinks that or

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Speaker 1: do you think that the guy thinks that. Um, I

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Speaker 1: think they're pretty well convinced they saw something. But I

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Speaker 1: guess the working theory is was it some kind of

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Speaker 1: military test, because because um, Camp Ripley isn't that far away.

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Speaker 1: Camp McCoy isn't that far away, there's possibility. But I

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Speaker 1: guess to your brother's comment, though, I think I would

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Speaker 1: argue that one bit the trouble you wind up and

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Speaker 1: this is way off topic you from with Jared Diamond.

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Speaker 1: Jared Diamond has a thing where he I don't want

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Speaker 1: to mutilate his argument too much, but but he gets

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Speaker 1: into like the idea that we would have contact with

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Speaker 1: another group. Ah and you imagine that. So the Earth

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Speaker 1: four billion years old? Okay? Um, And if you pictured

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Speaker 1: the Earth's history like stretch your arms out as far

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Speaker 1: as you can stretch them out. Okay, that's the Earth's

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Speaker 1: history on a on a timeline, you could remove human

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Speaker 1: history with one stroke of a nail file, meaning here's

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Speaker 1: this planet. And planets are ephemeral, they come and go,

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Speaker 1: here's this planet whose timeline is that long? But one stroke.

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Speaker 1: This isn't McPhee. John McPhee's the guy that brought up

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Speaker 1: this that you could remove human history at the stroke

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Speaker 1: of a nail file. But that's like, how on this planet,

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Speaker 1: which is an ephemeral sort of thing, that we've had

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Speaker 1: that little human history. Now, however, you begin to define

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Speaker 1: the beginning of human history like sort of the fashionable

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Speaker 1: answer used to be the anatomically and behaviorally modern humans

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Speaker 1: have been around for seventy five thousand years, and people like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, anatomically and behaviorally modern humans have been around

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Speaker 1: for a hundred fifty years. But whatever it is, let's

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Speaker 1: just say we have a hundred thousand years of anatomically

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Speaker 1: and behaviorly modern humans where you can take one of them,

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Speaker 1: a person from a hundred thousand years ago, dress them

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Speaker 1: up and in our duds, and they would and bring

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Speaker 1: them up in a modern family, and they would somehow

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Speaker 1: like pass as a personally wouldn't be inconspicuous. Okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: we've got that long hundred thousand years of that, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's been And our ability to electronically transmit messages

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Speaker 1: has been brief. Okay. Our ability to broadcast a message out,

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Speaker 1: so you've been up to it for a hundred years,

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Speaker 1: which is generous. Do you'd be able to broadcast a message?

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Speaker 1: So imagine now the trouble of having another planet, having

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Speaker 1: another planet's life cycle coincide with that. So not that

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Speaker 1: there's not other life. There is something that looks like

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Speaker 1: a chipmunk like my grandfather's muskie fish and bait. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's another planet that has a chipmunk. But to have

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Speaker 1: it be that that scaled out that you one taking

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Speaker 1: the assumption that life leads to a form of leads

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Speaker 1: to a thing that is curious about life on other planets,

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Speaker 1: or leads to a thing capable of having the face

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Speaker 1: or belief that there are other things out there, which

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Speaker 1: is a new idea here, and have it be that

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Speaker 1: it lined up perfectly and led to the same place

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Speaker 1: where we in the same place in the same time,

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Speaker 1: have the same interest and mechanisms to do so to

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Speaker 1: make contact with one another. It becomes very difficult. It

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Speaker 1: becomes very difficult to picture it. Mhm. So the dude

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Speaker 1: the deer hunter with the trail camera. When I see that,

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Speaker 1: my mind doesn't go to, oh, I'm gonna explain this

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Speaker 1: as an extraterrestrial presence. My mind goes to the hundreds

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Speaker 1: of other things that it unknown, things that it could be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But to get to the guy's questions. I was out

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Speaker 1: running mink traps with guy by the name of Carl,

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Speaker 1: and I was in high school and we saw UFO

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Speaker 1: out and swamp checking mink traps, and I remember Carl

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Speaker 1: looked at me and said, I'm not even gonna tell

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Speaker 1: anybody about that. Yeah. I think of it as a

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Speaker 1: UFO cat lower case, but it was a flying object.

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Speaker 1: I was unable to identify three lights. H Well, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of swirling quality to him. Well, you for the

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Speaker 1: mysterious lights up in the up west of only the

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Speaker 1: ones that come from like drump drivers. It was just

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Speaker 1: was just legend up in the up and many people

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Speaker 1: have seen it. Nothing unusual to see it where you um.

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Speaker 1: I think it's west of a little place called paul Myra.

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Speaker 1: I think it is. But anyways, up off forty five

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Speaker 1: going west off in the Up of Michigan, and the

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Speaker 1: legend is at this light that appears at night is

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Speaker 1: the lantern of an old guy in the back of

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Speaker 1: a railroad car from Earth, from from Earth. But it's

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Speaker 1: a mysterious light from Earth. Yeah, yeah, a ghost basically,

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Speaker 1: And it freaks people out and they go up there

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Speaker 1: and they hear about this. You know this mysterious ghost

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Speaker 1: and this mysterious light and they go look at and yep,

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Speaker 1: it's there. And then no one, no one at all

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Speaker 1: those time, has ever been able to explain where that

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Speaker 1: light comes from. Just odd some kind of physical occurrence obviously,

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Speaker 1: but no one can explain it. What do you think

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Speaker 1: about all that, Doug, I it's just uh, feeling like

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Speaker 1: it's two o'clock in the morning after a grateful Dead show.

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Speaker 1: As soon as all right, I think we gave that

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Speaker 1: guy the UFO researcher excuse me, the credential UFO researcher, Yanni,

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Speaker 1: who who's can you? Can you explain the guy? Can

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Speaker 1: you explain that your buddy, you got the wrong piece

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Speaker 1: of paper? Oh? Can you explain the story how this

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Speaker 1: guy like how we got to know him? Or no?

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Speaker 1: Tell the story? Oh yeah, for sure it can't, he

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Speaker 1: wrote in He actually he contacted me first before he

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Speaker 1: wrote us a story, because he was listening to us

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Speaker 1: talking about salt bait and the legalities around that. If

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Speaker 1: you got caught hunting over, you know, a chunk of salt,

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Speaker 1: then if it was yours or not, you knew it

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Speaker 1: was there or not, you know, and how the law

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Speaker 1: would deal with it. So oh yeah, you know what,

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Speaker 1: hold that pick it back up a minute. But I

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Speaker 1: did the We just we're talking about how Alabama made

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Speaker 1: that rule that there used to be like no bait,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, okay, if you're a hundred yards

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Speaker 1: from your bait and you can't see the bait, if

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Speaker 1: it's behind, if like if it's out of sighting and

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Speaker 1: a hundred yards away, then it's okay. So then dudes

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Speaker 1: started putting bait on the other side of hay bales

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Speaker 1: a hundred yards away because they couldn't see the bait

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Speaker 1: and it was a hundred yards away. Well, just so

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Speaker 1: happened that um Alabama just legalized baiting for it came

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Speaker 1: out because they wanted to find a more efficient way

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Speaker 1: to kill hogs and they got a real hog problem

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Speaker 1: in Alabama. So they're like legal. But then they rolled

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Speaker 1: in you can bait for deer and hoggs in Alabama,

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Speaker 1: full on balls out, much of the chagrin of many

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Speaker 1: white tail managers. You can now bait. They're so like

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Speaker 1: one hammer dealing with the spread of infectious diseases and

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Speaker 1: tear herds, and one thing we damn sure no is

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Speaker 1: the best way to get infectious diseases to jump around

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Speaker 1: is to invite a bunch of animals to rub noses

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Speaker 1: and a feed pile. But they legalized baiting. What's funny

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Speaker 1: is you have to buy a baiting license because the

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Speaker 1: Fish and Game Department was bummed about all the revenue

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Speaker 1: they would be losing from being able to give people

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Speaker 1: from giving citations for baiting. They were making revenue off

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Speaker 1: fines for baiting, and they're like, we're gonna lose the

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Speaker 1: revenue we have from it being illegal. There's a plant

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Speaker 1: to it with revenue from happening to buy a baiting stamp.

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Speaker 1: I'm not this is not a joke. Go ahead, it's

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Speaker 1: just it. But it's just yeah. I think it definitely

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Speaker 1: comes from the from the hog thing. And then there's

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Speaker 1: certain deer dudes and they're like, well, we got too

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Speaker 1: many deer, we need to kill more. And then people

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Speaker 1: like you really got too many deer is because everybody

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Speaker 1: wants to shoot big, giant, huge bucks. No one wants

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Speaker 1: to kill those. They had the highest deer densities, some

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Speaker 1: of the highest deer dancers in the country. You're allowed

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Speaker 1: to kill like I hunted Alabama the late nineties, and

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Speaker 1: you could get a dear day way like then. It's

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Speaker 1: more than that. Now we went down and just like

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Speaker 1: cold rolled in and hunted Tuskege National Forest and killed

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Speaker 1: a bunch of bucks. M go ahead, ye, speaking of

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Speaker 1: speaking of baiting, speaking of baiting. So he contact me

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Speaker 1: and said, I got a good baiting story. He said

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Speaker 1: he and body were hunting ducks in North Carolina about

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, and uh, all over the general area.

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Speaker 1: The hunting was pretty slow. Um, but they had plenty

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Speaker 1: of time. There had plenty of time to scout, and

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Speaker 1: they scouted hard and they found a spot that was

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Speaker 1: holding some ducks. So they made a plan come back

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Speaker 1: the next morning. Um. It was near houses, but not

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Speaker 1: close enough to be dangerous, um, but definitely close enough

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Speaker 1: to where the houses could hear the shots. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's plenty of duck hunting spots like that. UM.

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Speaker 1: I know that when I'm at my in laws in

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Speaker 1: North Carolina over the holidays. Uh, you know, they live

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Speaker 1: on the Intercoastal Waterway, and I mean it's NonStop, almost

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Speaker 1: all day long. You just hear, you know, as the

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Speaker 1: birds are flying up and down the inter Coastal there.

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Speaker 1: Um anyways, Um, so they're they're shooting away, having some action,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they look over and there's

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Speaker 1: a woman standing on a pier with a megaphone and

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Speaker 1: she's yelling at them, um that she's already called the

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Speaker 1: game warden because they're hunting over bait. Well, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: want them hunt. No, she doesn't want him hunting. She's

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Speaker 1: calling the game warden though she knows they're hunting over bait.

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Speaker 1: They don't know they're hunting over bait. So um, he says,

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Speaker 1: they shipped their pants and uh, they're wondering what to do,

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Speaker 1: and in no time, the game wardens pulling up. The

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Speaker 1: woman gets in a canoe and paddles over and tells

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Speaker 1: the game warden that's now with them and there their ducks,

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Speaker 1: that she knows they're hunting over bait because she put

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Speaker 1: it there on purpose so she could watch the ducks

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Speaker 1: but didn't tell anyone, and wanted to keep people from

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Speaker 1: hunting in that area, so she figured she bait it

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Speaker 1: and then if it's made it, you can't hunt there.

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Speaker 1: The game warn't proceeded to write the woman a ticket

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Speaker 1: for hunter harassment, and then told the two hunters to

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Speaker 1: go ahead and finish out the hunt, but after that

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Speaker 1: to stay out of there a few weeks since at

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Speaker 1: that point they knew it was bated, and he felt

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Speaker 1: that the general rule was that a bated area couldn't

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Speaker 1: be hunted for ten days after the bait was put out.

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Speaker 1: YEA love it. So that's the thing. I followed up

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Speaker 1: with him to ask, uh, you know, because obviously now

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Speaker 1: at that point they're like, damn, this might be good.

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Speaker 1: So I followed up to see if they limited, but

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Speaker 1: he said it just felt too sketchy, so they just left.

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Speaker 1: He didn't take the warden up on the office. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. There's a lot of things going

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Speaker 1: on there that warrn't discussion. One is, um, ducks are migratory.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to the listeners here. Ducks are migratory. So

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Speaker 1: a state can't claim, you know, you know, states manage

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Speaker 1: their own wildlife with the exception of something that has

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Speaker 1: federal protections like through the Endangered Species Act or migratory stuff.

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Speaker 1: Because you can't claim ownership of a bird that's that's traveling,

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Speaker 1: you know, thousands of miles and just stopping into places.

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Speaker 1: So the way they kind of like the way they

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Speaker 1: the FEDS and and the FEDS and the states co

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Speaker 1: manage migratory birds. And you have flyways in the US

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Speaker 1: because you imagine like bird movements are generally these north

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Speaker 1: south movements. So you have the Atlantic Flyway, the Pacific Flyway,

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Speaker 1: how many other there's four or five flyways Mississippi River

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Speaker 1: fly Mississippi Flyaway, sent then there's the there's one that

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Speaker 1: goes down the Rocket Central, and then there's four or

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Speaker 1: five flyways. Look that up, way, I should know that

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Speaker 1: you got a handful of flyways and the waterfall, like

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Speaker 1: migratory wilder falls managed sort of on the flyway level.

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Speaker 1: And in the States and the FEDS work together and

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Speaker 1: they kind of look at there's four flyways, name them

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Speaker 1: off Yanni, Pacific Central, Mississippi in Atlantic. There you go.

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Speaker 1: So you'll look at like what a state, what a

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Speaker 1: state's contribution, so to speak, is to the general well

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Speaker 1: being of a species. And if a waterfall species really

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Speaker 1: utilizes a state heavily for wintering grounds or utilizes a

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Speaker 1: state heavily for breeding grounds, um that states allocation of

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Speaker 1: that resource will be greater than say a state where

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Speaker 1: the bird just passed through and don't really utilize the

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Speaker 1: area at all. And it's it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: good system because it prohibits the state from extracting like

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Speaker 1: more than its share of a re source, which would

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Speaker 1: then impact other people down the line. The same way,

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Speaker 1: if you live on a creek and you feel free

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Speaker 1: to pour all kinds of poison into the creek on

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Speaker 1: your property, that poison will flow down river and affect

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Speaker 1: the guy down the stream. And that's why we have

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Speaker 1: rules that prohibit one's actions on their land from having

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Speaker 1: a negative impact on the actions of someone else's land.

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Speaker 1: Sort of that same kind of logic at play with waterfowl.

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Speaker 1: What was I getting at? Oh point I was getting

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Speaker 1: at is you can't bait migratory birds federal Like, even

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Speaker 1: if state decided, hey man, we want to allow baiting ducks,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to do it because the

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Speaker 1: feathers are never going to agree to it. Bait and waterfowl,

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Speaker 1: but you can even if you go and plant crops,

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Speaker 1: Like even if you go, let let's say your guy

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Speaker 1: that likes to hunt ducks, you know, a bunch of land,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm gonna grow corn on my lamb

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Speaker 1: because I like to hunt ducks. Even if you're doing that,

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Speaker 1: you can't, right, you can't raise that corn and harvest

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Speaker 1: that corn out of sink with how corn is harvested

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Speaker 1: when used for agricultural purposes, Like, you can't grow a

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Speaker 1: bunch of corn, never harvest it, wait for the duck

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Speaker 1: migration to come in, knock all the corn down and

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Speaker 1: flood it and start hunting ducks. You have to if

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Speaker 1: you plan it, you have to pick it the way

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Speaker 1: it would be picked. You can't just like loophole your

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Speaker 1: way around it by doing weird stuff. People do do

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Speaker 1: weird stuff, And you can do like enhancements and plant

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Speaker 1: native vegetation that ducks like to eat all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Habitat improvements are fine, but you can't do

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Speaker 1: sort of like egreedgious kind of accidental baiting baiting by

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Speaker 1: like I said, the most egregious case would be that

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Speaker 1: you would somehow grow corn, pick it and then kind

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Speaker 1: of grains and then maybe flooded and then accidentally spill

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Speaker 1: all the grain and not pick it up and and

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Speaker 1: flooded and then be like, oh, you know, I'm a farmer.

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Speaker 1: They watched that kind of stuff and in Wisconsin. Property

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Speaker 1: taxes are based on rural land is based on land use.

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Speaker 1: And I just have some folks that I'm working with

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Speaker 1: who have a uh complaint about their property taxes haven't

390
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Speaker 1: gone up. And they said, well, this is agriculture, and

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Speaker 1: what it is is a twenty acre food plot that

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Speaker 1: they you know, they went in and knocked it down.

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Speaker 1: I saw the crop didn't come up. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to tell the assessor. And the assessors like, no,

395
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Speaker 1: that's that's that's undeveloped property, which is at a much

396
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Speaker 1: higher rate than um. He wasn't He wasn't buying it

397
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Speaker 1: at all, I said, dude. And they were asking me,

398
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Speaker 1: don't you think the size of the night. It sounds

399
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: to me like if you want to be a farmer,

400
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: you need to be a farmer, all right, So so here.

401
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Speaker 1: So so that's one interesting thing pointed conversation out of

402
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: this story by the sky. The other point is the

403
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: fact that and this is I think not widely known

404
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: that it's ill oftentimes in many states, and Pat Durkin

405
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: is gonna speak to this. It's illegal to screw with

406
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Speaker 1: the hunter or a trapper or a fisherman. You can't

407
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: harass him. You can't molest his hunt. Remember Jeremiah Johnson,

408
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: he gets accused by bear claw Chris Cloud of molesting

409
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: his grizzly hunt. It's illegal to molest someone's hunt. As

410
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: that woman found out, that's what she was in trouble

411
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Speaker 1: for harassing a hunter who's engaged in a legal activity. Yeah.

412
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Speaker 1: Is that a federal or a state by state? State

413
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Speaker 1: by state? And every state now has anti harassment law,

414
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Speaker 1: every state, every state has it. Yeah. The the United

415
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: States Sportsman Alliance back in the eighties basically helps states.

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Speaker 1: They crafted a model legislation in the states. It's from

417
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: the most easy ones to pass. No one, no one

418
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Speaker 1: likes harassment of legal activities, so it passed in all

419
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: fifty states. I didn't know that. I remember when it passed.

420
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Speaker 1: I remember I was living in Michigan. I think when

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00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: it passed the Michigan. I feel like I was living

422
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: in Michigan. It passed the Michigan, and I was curious

423
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: aboute because the trap because the trappers were getting her asked. Yeah,

424
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: that's where that that's where the Sportsmen's Lions came from, right, well,

425
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: harassment so kind of trapping band in Ohio, Is that right?

426
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: We heard the story recently. That might be because that's

427
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: where they're from in Columbus. You know, I remember I

428
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: remember covering those guys in the mid eighties. They're doing

429
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: you know, trips around the country in those days, rounding

430
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: up support for the organization. But you know, but I

431
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: remember in Wisconsin here we had a face to face

432
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: face harassment going on in Blue Mountain State Park, which

433
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: is over not too far from Doug's farm, and the

434
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: D and R had wardens out there and they pretty

435
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: much um didn't interfere a whole lot and didn't arrest

436
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 1: anybody because they has figured we're not going to make

437
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 1: martyrs on these people, and all these laws when in effect,

438
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: and basically the warden's told these people, you know you

439
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: can you've been warring now and if you come back

440
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: and you're still harassing them, then we'll have to take action.

441
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: But what's what's I think fascinating about the story that

442
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: you're sharing here is that's really become how that law

443
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: is being enforced. I mean, there's very very few cases

444
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: now where animal rights activists go out and organized fashion

445
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: and disruptant, so it just asn't unusual now, what's happenings

446
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: that legislation. Yeah, that's that's probably part of it. That

447
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: they know that this this is something that they can

448
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: be if they physically interrupt someone's hunt, blurred noise, do anything,

449
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: they're harass, molest, it's illegal, and it's it's pretty well,

450
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's been stoop to the various legal challenges

451
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: and so they probably don't challenge anymore. That's probably you

452
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: don't see that kind of um enforcement action being taken

453
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: because it just isn't happening because of the law. But

454
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: what's happening is all these people pulling that kind of

455
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: in a business where they honked honked their horns and

456
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: the neighbors hunting in his backyard. Um, they you know,

457
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: you can google this stuff. It's I did this in

458
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: in preparation. It was fun to do. You started googling

459
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: hunter harassment. What do you see? It's basically neighborhood situations,

460
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: UM situations Like a guy opening day Wisconsin's gun season,

461
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: doesn't like his neighbor hunting the fence lines, who goes

462
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: up there and starts cutting the chain saucers doing his

463
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: firewood project open day and the curse in the hunter

464
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: gets piste off, climbs down and this is you know,

465
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: back probably for our cell phone coverage was so good,

466
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: and calls the ward and the warren comes out un

467
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: tells the neighbor quit cutting the wood. You know, come on,

468
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: that's I can set here for harassment. But how did

469
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: you know the guy doesn't want to cut some wood?

470
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: Is because it's a long running battle, you know, typical

471
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: neighbor ship that goes back and forth between two neighbors

472
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: that don't like each other. And I find boils over

473
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: an opening day and then the warren's involved. You know,

474
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: I know a case where there was a hunter harassment

475
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: from one hunter to the other. Oh yeah, Our good

476
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: friend Kevin Murphy, the world's greatest small game hunter, did

477
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: a trip up to my home state of Michigan and

478
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: was hunting my home national forest, Manastee National Forest, which

479
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: I think now goes by a different name, or it's

480
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: here on Manistee. Anyways, many national forest and they're out

481
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: there with these they're out there with through squirrel dogs,

482
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: which is not a quiet type of dog. I mean,

483
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: these things make a racket. But anyway, some bow hunter

484
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: comes peeling down out of his tree, freaking out on him.

485
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: M it a call up on that guy for hunter. Yeah, yeah,

486
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: he felt that his deer hunting trumped Kevin's squirrel hunt,

487
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: which is yeah to me, it's it's public land and

488
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: you take what you get. Yeah, it's like, sorry, bro,

489
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: or the dogs may have has easily runned your past.

490
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: The guy has are you know, scared of your And

491
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, I mean the thing to

492
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: do is get organized and trying to change the laws, right,

493
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: changing seasons or whatever it might be. But the thing

494
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: is they enjoy you know, both of those guys. So

495
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: squirrel hunters more so than deer hunts. But you already

496
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: enjoy it very long season. Yeah so too. You know,

497
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: if you whittled it down and we're like, hey, we're

498
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: gonna have a week long archery deer season and it

499
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: will make it real quiet in the woods. I think

500
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: that your average bowl hunter would be like, you know what,

501
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: I'll stick with six or eight weeks that I have

502
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: understanding that there's gonna be some other activities going on

503
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: out here, because a lot of states will come in

504
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: and shut down small game for the firearms season or

505
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: like a day before, right, there's something like that in Wisconsins.

506
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: It's not anymore. No, you can. You can. You can

507
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: remember because we were going to hunt with Brittany and HELLENX.

508
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: We want to hunt squirrels. First I thought, you can't

509
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: go shooting off guns the day before dear season. They

510
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: changed it. They changed it was the day before your season.

511
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: We squirrel hunted with Brittany, so they has changed it. Yeah,

512
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: it's pretty recent that you couldn't go shooting on fire.

513
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: It was more of, oh, you don't want to disturb

514
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: the woods. Oh, that's not going there. And then the

515
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: next morning my nephew goes out there and shoots a

516
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: big buck right where you guys were sure because you

517
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: know what, it doesn't sets the deer at ease, well,

518
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: the word the deer like he said, Dude, I was

519
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: freaking out. Then I realized they're just hunting squirrel. I'm

520
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: going That's where I'm gonna go. Um. So that woman

521
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: was which woman, the woman in the canoe. She was

522
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: cited for hunter harassment and baiting. We don't know about

523
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: that because she's been cited for bathing, all right, Yeah,

524
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: but she wasn't baiting to hunt. So then you get

525
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: into this tricky thing feeding the wildlife in your backyard.

526
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: That's the whole thing in Wisconsin about Oh, this isn't baiting,

527
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: this is I'm feeding wildlife. I'm not right, And it

528
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: sounds state you can't do that in Montana. You can't

529
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: see wildlife at all. That I don't seems like a

530
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: good rule to me, you know it. Got recently wrote

531
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: in to say to ask how many people we would

532
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: all like our funeral? Meaning if you were to die

533
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: and then look down from the heavens, what would if

534
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: you look down? What would you feel would be the

535
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: right number? For me, it'd be like or up at

536
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: the bottoms of their boots depending yep, yeah, looking up

537
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: looking up from hell? How many people would you like

538
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: to see there? But the reason that I'm thinking about

539
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: that now as I had wanted. Um, I haven't codified,

540
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: I haven't written this down, but I know where I

541
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: want my carcass dumped. I don't want to be cremated

542
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: or buried. I want to be surface dispersed in it's

543
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: a piece of public land, um. And I know the

544
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: exact spot, and I've explained it my wife. I want

545
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: to be surface dumped there in order to be ravaged

546
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: by wild beasts. Yeah. Um and I realized now besides

547
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: the incredible headache, because this is they're gonna have to

548
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: whoever does this has to haul my I think they

549
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: should part it out and game bag, but they gotta

550
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: pack me in four miles and then dump my surface,

551
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: dumped my carcass. And now I'm thinking about there's that's

552
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: probably illegal, hand definitely illegal. But you know what, Crazy Horse,

553
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: I'm not liking myself to these people in anyway. I'm

554
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: just I just know because I've been interested in having

555
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: my body, I would like my body to be dumped

556
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: in the woods in the mountains. Um. So in warning

557
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: about the legality of that, I've looked at cases where

558
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: there are uh where people have gone and dump people

559
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: buried people. Crazy Horse after he was killed in Nebraska,

560
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: uh by bayonet was they've never found his body. They

561
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: took him out of the fort and so he's somewhere

562
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: buried there. No one knows where jam knew a crack

563
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: in the rocks. Perhaps no one's ever found Crazy Horse's

564
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: body at abbey. His friends dumped him and they have

565
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: never divulged. Ah. I think that the Grizzly Bear researcher

566
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: Doug Peacock was involved in this. They've never divulged where

567
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: they put his carcass. So I would like to. I

568
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: really would like to be surface dumped. But it's like

569
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: maybe there is a way around it. You know, I

570
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: don't know. Have you been have you looked into it? No,

571
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make it clear that that's what i

572
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: want done. And then if the people who are left

573
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: to do this, which I presumably be my children, if

574
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: they're left to do this and they really honestly just

575
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: do not want to follow their father's dying wishes, I

576
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: will leave that decision to them. If not, I feel

577
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: like they're going to have to do it and they're

578
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: gonna have to face the consequences. However minor they might

579
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: be like, yes, you're honored we took an old man's

580
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: carcass out and dumped in the woods. Yeah. Well, I'm

581
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: sure a lawyer is crafting the email right now to

582
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: us to explain how we can get get around and

583
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: get it done. So Pat, all fifty states have a

584
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: no harass and hunter law. And we started that with

585
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: talking about how many people are going to be at

586
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 1: the funeral. Yeah, we didn't get that. How many people

587
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: are gonna be at your funeral? How many people do

588
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: you want at your funeral as well? It's gonna have

589
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: to be the least. Is that your funeral enough to

590
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: curry the body? Yeah, like I don't want I still

591
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: want to be fun So thirty forty pounds per persons

592
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: like I take four people to carry it. Imagine some

593
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: other people are going to go to if I look

594
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: down and saw ten, but see, it depends on when

595
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: I die, because like right now, I'd expect certain family

596
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: members to be there, but presume me they'll be dead

597
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: when I die, So I don't know. Like I would

598
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: like if I looked down and saw less than three,

599
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: I know there's a real problem because I have three children,

600
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: right so less than three would be one that my

601
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: life was destroyed by the loss of one of my children,

602
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: at which point I don't care what happens to me

603
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: after I die, and then uh ten eleven. I feel

604
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: like there's some people down there who probably shouldn't be there.

605
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: They're just going because they want to see this all

606
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: play out. I was gonna volunteer, I'd say, you know,

607
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: I'd be happy to take three or forty pounds of

608
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: you and drop you somewhere. But I was gonna say,

609
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to We're gonna have to work on

610
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: the timing a little. This coming from a man who

611
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: pulled out his hearing aids and laid him on the table.

612
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: And unfortunately I can't have the bullshit filters on now.

613
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: So and I'd volunteered too, steep, but I'm older than Dougs.

614
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, I would like to thank you guys. Be

615
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: long dead dog? Are you gonna be buried at your farm? Uh?

616
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about that a bunch of trying

617
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: to figured out we drove making a fat making a

618
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: family plot. Well, we have a big old family plot

619
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: up at the where I went to church, and that

620
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: that cemetery. My family was a part of the establishment

621
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: of that church and everything, and that's where all I'm like,

622
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 1: my brother is buried there, my dad's buried there, my grandparents,

623
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: my I mean, you go out there and you can't

624
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: swing a cat in that cemetery without hitting a dirt

625
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 1: in tombstone. So, um, you can't swing a cat around

626
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: there without hitting a dirt. Well, that's that's true. Road

627
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: down the road is named during road Um, I put

628
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: some of my dad's ashes under his favorite deer stand

629
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: on the farm. Remember that. And did you put anything

630
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: in the family plot? Yeah, you didn't like cremate part

631
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: of them and very part of them. No, it was

632
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: all cremated. So there's a little urn in the family

633
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: plot and then up there. So those are the two places,

634
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: because you know, the Pope said, we don't want people

635
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: scattering ashes all around the country. Keep your keep your

636
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: pile together as close as it can be. And I

637
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: figured that was close enough. My sister in law, um,

638
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: on her ranch, they have I guess what passes as

639
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: a cemetery cemetery to them. Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah,

640
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: she would heard my brother got married. It's like you

641
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: could look often as a rock pile or whatever over

642
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: there where grandfather and Mr Potter get married right on

643
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: top of the bones of your ancestors on your own land.

644
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah that's nice. Um. And now she's got grizzlies on

645
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: her place, so I might just be able to do

646
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: my whole body dump. You'd be gone tomorrow. Did he

647
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: did he have any other context with the question or

648
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: that that was it? You just wanted to know how

649
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: many people. We just wanted to know what you would

650
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: think of as good enough. What's your answer? Yeah, I've

651
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: never really thought about it. I guess that's the thing.

652
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: It's all about the timing, because you hope, now if

653
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: it happened that, yeah, there could be a thousand people there. Okay, No, No,

654
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: I'm just saying whatever, some great amount of you know,

655
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: friends and peers and whatever, that you've had that kind

656
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: of reach that so many people would like to come

657
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: and support you. But yeah, when you're you know, my

658
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: recently deceased grandmother's age, you don't she didn't have any

659
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: peers everybody, So you know, we had quite you know,

660
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: we had almost forty people there though, which was like

661
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: I didn't expect it, you know, but you forget how many,

662
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: like I think, little tentacles you know, people have out there,

663
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: and how many you know, close associations you have. It

664
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: was funny to bring up the you know, my father,

665
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: as I talk about many times, my father fought in

666
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: World War Two, so he had me when he was

667
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: fifty years old, and I was raised around retired as

668
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: a kid, I was brought up around retired or semi

669
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: retired World War Two vets. To a large degree, many

670
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: of my dad's best friends that way and they just fished. Um,

671
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: there's that whole circle. There's only there's one left who

672
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: lives down the beach for my mom. And I think

673
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: about that guy from like Last Man Standing, Like all

674
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: of that guy's friends that he spent his entire adult

675
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: life with have just been whittled away. And he was

676
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: a he was a pilot in World War Two, and

677
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: it's like his Like when that guy wakes up and

678
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: goes to call his buddies, ain't know oning to call

679
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: man He has ran out of him, you know over

680
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: the last ten fifteen years. Well he's got younger buddies now. Yeah,

681
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: but like the main you know, the main people that

682
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: I watched him spend decades, they're just gone. But what's

683
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: what's fun about? Not fun, But what's I think fascinating

684
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: about wakes and funerals all is their their colleagues are gone.

685
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: There's there's siblings are gone in any case, like my

686
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: dad died, and yet you see all the people who

687
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: they touched that you never had any idea how they

688
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: touched them. They show at the at the wake and

689
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: you think, oh dad did Okay, Yeah, that's that's fascinating

690
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: because that is I mean, you had some awareness of it,

691
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: but until you until they die and you hold a wake,

692
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: you don't know what the hell your parents, what holiday work,

693
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: their magic outside the family, and it was it was

694
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: a kind of a cool process to see you. So, Ni,

695
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: what's your final number? Let's say you died right now,

696
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: you just fell over dead right now because your heart problem.

697
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: Would you want to be just like me and your wife?

698
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: Or just me or a hundred? I think I'd be

699
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: probably pretty happy if just my family was there, and

700
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: I would feel gracious if they was a hundred of

701
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: my friends. I guess so big numbers. Yeah, so you'd

702
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: want to look up from hell and see two hundred

703
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: boots everybody having a big party, two booths belonging into

704
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: one people. Oh, I wanted to be so somber when

705
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: I died. I don't like this celebration of life. It's

706
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: gonna be just. I wanted to be sad. I wanted

707
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: the ground to be wet with tears. Man. Um, Well,

708
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: don't I get to say how I want to go?

709
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: I do want to hear. Would you like to hear

710
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: how many you'd like to have? Um? If I I'd

711
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: say that it would be cremated or my big wish,

712
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: but will never happened. I've always liked the idea that

713
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: did in the Navy in World War Two. They get

714
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: a big sack, throw to your body in there, throw

715
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: a couple of big empty shell cases in these big

716
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: brass shell cases off the side your goal. That's how

717
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden was buried. Yeah, basically I saw that.

718
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: That's kind of cool way. You know, people don't have

719
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: to come and weep over a grave site. You know,

720
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: they know you're out there somewhere, and that's good enough

721
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: for me. So that's my um. So you'd be taken

722
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: out to see another way they used to do it.

723
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: They put you in a sort of flammable boat. And

724
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: so the boat full of like brush and sticks and whatnot,

725
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: lay your carcass out on it, set the boat on fire,

726
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: and push it out right. Do you remember who it was?

727
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: Because I feel like that was popularized by some movie,

728
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: was popularized by dead Man. No, the burning part wasn't

729
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: in dead Man and Jim Jarmus's film dead Man, which

730
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: is probably the greatest Western ever made, one of the

731
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: greatest Western's ever made. Um In the end, he puts

732
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: a what is in fact a live person that he

733
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: thinks is dead and come back to life, puts him

734
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: in a boat and says, it's time for you to

735
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: go back to where you came from. Got it? But

736
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: have you seen Jim Jarmus is dead? Man? It sounds

737
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: like I gotta tell you the remaster. But how many people?

738
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: Many people? Um? People who were close? None? It was

739
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: a navy ship. It was on deck. Yeah, and that's

740
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: I'd say. If we're a tug boat, that'd be fine

741
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,959
Speaker 1: with me. You know what, I need eight people, That's fine.

742
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: If I thought it had a navy connection, I'd be

743
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: cool with it. Well, your daughter will bill pull strings?

744
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 1: Because that's right? I could I could, you know, keep

745
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: her on? Well, she'd go to the top brass like, hey,

746
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: h here's the deal bag over there. We need to

747
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: take a little ride. I need a boat ride. I've

748
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: never thought of this. The only thing that I've ever

749
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: thought about was that that whole thing about leading your

750
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: life and writing your your own obituary and then leading

751
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: your life accordingly. That's not something I thought about a lot.

752
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: But I did want to say about my dad. Was

753
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: he and another guy, Pete Melford and has obvious the

754
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: last two World War two vets and neither one of

755
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: those guys wanted to give up. It was like a

756
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: grudge match between the two of them, how long they

757
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: were going to live and stead Pete don't lived Dad

758
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: h and that that was interesting because my father was

759
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: like pats of you know, pillar of the community and

760
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: how many people came through and yeah, you really do

761
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: see how um you're the tentacles the influence that he'd

762
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: had over people in the community, and um, I guess

763
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing that, uh, that's really gratifying.

764
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: But you know, personally, I never thought about it. M

765
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: probably won't. I'll just be dead. Yeah, that's the other

766
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: thing I think about all the time. It's like, who cares,

767
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm just dead anyway, because but but the thing is

768
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: death planning big business. Well yeah, but it's like it's

769
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 1: you do it. You make your wishes alive because you're

770
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: just saying what you what in life. I like the

771
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: idea of so the execution of it. The fact that

772
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: people feel beholden to carry out your wishes really says something.

773
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: Because there's no ramification. You can't get pissed at him

774
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: at them from the wouldn't have done what you wanted

775
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: me to do. The heavens or hells or whatever the

776
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 1: microbial form that you wind up taking. So pat fifty

777
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: states have ANTI Is it covered by is it covered

778
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: by fishing too? I know trapping our fishing is fishing protected?

779
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if it is. I don't. I haven't

780
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: seen anything specific basically hunting and trapping. I think because

781
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: because those are the ones that who had asked the

782
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: fisherman when other fishermen, Yeah, her asked by other fishermen.

783
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: And I've been harassed by people who own the land

784
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: where I might have the be fishing without permission at times.

785
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: But that's more. That's different. But it's good to know.

786
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: So anyone who's listening, if they ever have someone come

787
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: out and harass them while hunting, pick up your phone

788
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: or go do go to a phone and call to

789
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: get the person in trouble. Yeah. And the one that

790
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: the case you see quite often these days is on

791
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: public lands to where a guy um has a tree

792
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: stand up and comes back a couple years later in

793
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: this tree stands laying the ground or it's been um

794
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: damaged in some way and realized what he inadvertently moved

795
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,959
Speaker 1: down to some other guys. You know, turf who thinks

796
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: he's entitled that spot. He's been hunting the spot for

797
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: over a long or what happens in Wisconsin lot is

798
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: a damn bait piles. These guys started maintaining a bait pile.

799
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: They start thinking that's their bait pile, their property, and

800
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: then they defended, and so you have these wardens have

801
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: to go in there and separate these guys and say,

802
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't your land. He has a very

803
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: right to be here. And they say how those kinds disputes.

804
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: Wisconsin's got an interesting going on going on right now.

805
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 1: They passed a law last year to prevent animal rights

806
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: activists from even filming and videotaping, recording images repeat that

807
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: the losses something like repeatedly, And I personally think that

808
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: one was going to get shot down in courts because

809
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how you can prevent someone like me,

810
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: a journalist and taking a picture of guys down the road,

811
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: like let's say, bear hunters getting their dodge rated to goal.

812
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: And that's what's happening. Was this came up because um,

813
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: a case came up where some animal rights activists were

814
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: up building Wisconsin monitoring the bear hunters, the wolf hunters.

815
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: The guys with the hounds didn't like the hounds up

816
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: there chasing bears and wolves. I can't think of that.

817
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 1: I think it's mainly what worrying about wolf hunting though,

818
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 1: And so they they got some lawmaker to write write

819
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: a bill saying you can't write a law, it's actually

820
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: law now that you can't repeatedly stand there like in

821
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: a road and video tip these guys down the road

822
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: doing their business. That seems like a stretch. Yes, that's

823
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: a stretch because I think you get then you're the

824
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: public exactly. I mean, yeah, you can't go into some

825
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 1: guy's property and do that that. You couldn't do that anyway,

826
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: I'd be trespassing. And if you follow them through the

827
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: woods it could be harassment, right. But just to stand

828
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: there on the road and shoot down am an old

829
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: logging road, that kind of thing, I think that gets

830
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: in the First Amendment stuff. I don't know how that

831
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: whatever will stand the test of time in courts, but um, yeah,

832
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: that's you talked. Almost anyone up in public lands up

833
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: north right now. Almost everyone has some kind of story

834
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: like that where there they left a tree stand out,

835
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: or they have a bait piled, the buddy at a

836
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: bait pile is always all those kind of stories that's

837
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: common now that liked Hunter on Hunter, Hunter and Hunter.

838
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: And then when I mentioned earlier, the backyard situations are

839
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: becoming more common because you have more suburban hunting UM

840
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: Washington on the suburbs of our our nation's capital, UM,

841
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: these northern very in your neighborhoods. There's a pretty good

842
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: case where the Archery Trade Association, which I do a

843
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: lot of work with, actually got involved and provide an

844
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: attorney to fight it because when his neighborhood associations was

845
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: trying to prevent a guy trying to prevent a bowl

846
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: hunting group when he's UM. They had these cool bowling

847
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: groups in these big urban areas that go out and

848
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: shoot deer in people's yards basically try to knock knock

849
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: the herd down. And this one guy, one group that

850
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: was doing that a lot. They were getting harassed and

851
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: being told and actually legally not, you can't hunt this neighborhood.

852
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: And our association, you know, you know, has a um

853
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: what do you call his covenants to prevent that well,

854
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: Archie Trade Association took it on, got their lawyer involved

855
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: and got a struct struck it got strucken stricken down

856
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: because it was just, you know, it violates some they

857
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, home owners associations cannot dictate hunting rules. That's

858
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: the state's province unless they own the land. Unless they

859
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: own the land. Yeah, but but they're it reminds me

860
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: of an old joke. They're dictating it to their dictating

861
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: it to other landowners, and you can't do that. So

862
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: that's that's why they Yeah, because the state is jealous

863
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: of states detective of its rights on it to manage hunting.

864
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: And from the big point of view is that while

865
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: they're representing us, you know, the state wildlife associated agencies,

866
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: they represent us, and so they're looking out for our

867
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: rights by by by fighting it. So so that's where

868
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: these cases are gone. It's not it's no longer the

869
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: animal rights people typically creating the problems. It's it's hunters

870
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 1: and neighbors that kind of things. Just to be clear,

871
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: because I happen to have very personal Uh I don't

872
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: want to say it like covenant expertise. Well, yeah, but

873
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: I got I got some skin in this game. Um,

874
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: because yeah, my supposed h a which you know, it

875
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: came in perpetunity with the property right, so we never

876
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: signed anything, has never been a meeting. We don't pay

877
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: any dues. There's maybe twenty rules you know there they

878
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: were supposed to follow, and one of them is no

879
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: hunting with firearms only only you can hunt with the boat.

880
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: Doesn't say you can't shoot firearms, which you can't hunt

881
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: with firearms. And you're saying that they cannot enforce that.

882
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: I bet you if if if you were to challenge it,

883
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: they have a hard time defending it because that's truly

884
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: a state. Um, that's a state issue. They can't be

885
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: dictating that. But you know, cities can pass ordinance, so

886
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: off it's a safety they can provide. They can do that.

887
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: No firearms in the village and have firearms in the city. No,

888
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: So it's a matter. It seems like if it's a

889
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 1: neighborhood association and there's like common ground in the middle

890
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: of it, you know, and the houses are all around it,

891
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: that if they own that as a group, or that

892
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: was a part of that development or whatever, they I

893
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: don't see I've got by mixing the hunting into I

894
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: think I think it complicates a situation. What I'd like

895
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: to see. What's starting to concern me is when the

896
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 1: the agencies that will run like a bear hunt, but

897
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: they'll have a mandatory check station. So Florida did this

898
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: and they're ill fated bear hunt. New Jersey and they're

899
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: soon to be ill fated bear hunt. They actually elected

900
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: a governor who ran on an anti bear hunting, had

901
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: an anti bear hunting plank in his platform. I don't

902
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: need It's just we got an email from a guy

903
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: who uh started hunting, and then got started hunting, got divorced,

904
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: and now his ex wife goes down to join the

905
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: bear hunting protesters. So he said his life's become a

906
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: real joke, really joke at his circle of friends. But

907
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: they have these check stations, and they make an actual

908
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: protest area at the check station, so the people can

909
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: come down and harass hunters who are legally obligated to

910
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: go to that specific check station rather than to be

911
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: able to go to you know, a facility. Normal you

912
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: go to check something. You go to the fishing game office, right,

913
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: and you go in, you go into a enclosed area

914
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: or whatever and do a check things. So they gotta

915
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: like set off like a protest zone so people can

916
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: heckle and harass people who are fulfilling one they're legally

917
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: allowed to hunt. They're fulfilling their legal obligation to check

918
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: the thing, but they got to do so against the

919
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: back drop. Wow, I'm surprised to let that go of

920
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of you, who's well, you can't prevent people

921
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: from protesting the laws or not physically doing something to

922
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 1: the people. Yeah, at a Turkey check station. I'm guessing

923
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: no one shows up. When you have a Turkey check station,

924
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: you probably don't need to have an area. And I

925
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 1: see at that point it's not really harassment because they're

926
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: not affecting the hunt. I don't like it in this world.

927
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: There are things where like That's why I would like

928
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: to be an absolute dictator, because um, because then I

929
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to worry about the legal like just certain

930
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: rules I wanted to have it. I don't have to

931
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: worry about why, like how to justify them. I'd be like, Oh,

932
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: in addition to all that, I don't want this to

933
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: happen either, and I don't. I can't explain why, just

934
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: don't like it. I just don't like it, can't and

935
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: I don't won't. I don't care what you think. Watch

936
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: this segue speaking of hunter harrassment, Speaking of hunter harassment,

937
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: Pat Durkin, I think that that's that blue laws are

938
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: a form of hunter harassment. Can you explain a blue law?

939
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: I just sprang this on Pat okay Um, I'll right

940
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: away start with an apology that I'm not from my

941
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 1: state that has ever had blue laws. I think, yeahgize.

942
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: I apologize as saying I'm not the most versed in

943
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: this topics, so I'm sure someone will will correct me

944
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: on this. But I do remember I have some experience

945
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: in this because when I was stationed in Virginia back

946
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: in the seventies, UM Virginia had a blue law, and

947
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: I think it's still in effect. In the blue law

948
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: basically from my understanding, was that UM stores like big

949
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: department stores, UM shopping malls, UM hunting. You could not

950
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: go out on Sundays and the hunt. You couldn't go

951
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: out and shop at these big shopping malls. All those

952
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: stores are shut down, so you couldn't shop or hunt.

953
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: You couldn't shop or hunt. You could go fishing, though,

954
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: But but I this has to do with the Sabbath, right,

955
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: I'm sure it has to do with the Sabbath, because

956
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: the only place I'm aware of, well, actually I think, um,

957
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:57,479
Speaker 1: I think until recently, I think Matttoba had no Sunday hunting,

958
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 1: or Saskatchewan one of those provinces had a too. Is fine,

959
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: It's not just a Southern thing. It's something that I think, right,

960
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: certain religions, UM just didn't think it's proper to be

961
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 1: hunting on Sundays. Pennsylvania, like our man Brody Henderson, frequent

962
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: guest here, wrote a piece on our website. If you

963
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: go to the mediator dot com, you look up Brody's

964
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: piece about about blue laws, which which me and everyone

965
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: I know it feels that they should be just categorically

966
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: repealed across the board. Um, it's it's it's just like

967
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: upsetting to me. But that you can fish as though,

968
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: as though like to think that the God would look

969
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: down and be mad at a guy solemnly sitting in

970
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: his tree stand all day, okay, in quiet contemplation as

971
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: he awaits the arrival of a deer that he knows

972
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: will probably not show up, and God would be mad

973
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: at that guy. But then some dude sitting on the

974
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: edge of a pine, swilling beers and yelling back and

975
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: forth up and down the bank with his buddies fishing

976
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: all day. It's like that that, right, it just doesn't

977
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: make sense. Well, I think they would probably look back

978
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: now and look at that as a failure in their

979
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: part when they made the rule. It's just that we

980
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: should have thrown in Fishing's definitely because if and watching football,

981
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: even playing football on Sundays. I mean, the goal has

982
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:31,439
Speaker 1: got to be to get more people through the church stores, right, Doug,

983
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: did you actually raise your hand. I've been, I've been

984
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: helps it helps to do that, you know. I don't wanna,

985
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: I don't wanna interrupt. I think that the fishing thing

986
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: is probably because the Apostles were all fishermen. I like that.

987
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, when told to uh, that great

988
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: story cast your nets on the other side of the boat,

989
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: that Bible story. Yes, um, that could be now. I

990
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: used to trap on some land, not Amish, but I

991
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: used to trap on a lot of Mennonite properties. And

992
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: they keep I believe, I believe they are men. I

993
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: believe they kept a Saturday Sabbath which was like the

994
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: original set people used to think that everybody think that

995
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: Saturday was the Sabbath sundown, like that's how the Jews

996
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: on it, right, sundown, Friday sundown, Saturday. I used to

997
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: trap on their land. They wouldn't like check traps on

998
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: the Sabbath. They didn't want anybody out running traps because

999
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: they honored the Sabbath. They weren't like doing weird shortcuts, right,

1000
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they were like stripped by the book. Um,

1001
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: and I would trap fox so you can't not check

1002
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: your you know, you gotta you gotta check traps every morning,

1003
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: early earlier, the better I'd have to go pull them all.

1004
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: I'd pull them all on Friday, then reset on Sunday

1005
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: because you can't just leave them out and not run them.

1006
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: But there I was like more indulgent because there I

1007
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: was like, you know what you have? You go so

1008
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: far out of your way to stay true to an

1009
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: understanding of a text right that there, I feel like

1010
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: like I'm like, yeah, I get it. But when people

1011
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: who are just like so randomly sort of cherry pick

1012
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: parts that they're like, oh, I'm gonna I agree with

1013
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: that part that part, never mind, then I get a

1014
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: little bit intolerant. Of it. Yeah, and what's fascinating to

1015
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: me about that? Not hunting on Sundays. I had shipmates

1016
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: who were from Virginia and they're from southern states that

1017
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: had blue laws, and I'd tell him one, in Wisconsin,

1018
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: we don't have that. We can hunt all seven days

1019
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: the week. And aren't you working to repeal this? Why

1020
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: don't you get rid of that? And they looked at

1021
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: me like I was nuts. You know, that's just unheard

1022
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: of it. You would go and shoot a gun on

1023
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: a Sunday. They didn't didn't like that idea. They'd fight it.

1024
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the peacefulness of the day. But by point

1025
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: was this, but most guys only can hunt the weekend.

1026
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: So here you are eliminating your eliminating your hunting. You're

1027
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: cutting it down by oh yeah. I My story in

1028
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: my typical week kind of hunting in Virginia would be

1029
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: to lead the ship on Friday night, drive five hours

1030
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:17,479
Speaker 1: out um Bath County, Virginia, hunt all day Saturday, shut

1031
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: down Sunday, hunt half the day Monday, and then then

1032
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: drive back the ship. And I just just used to

1033
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: drive me nuts giving up that Sunday go I go

1034
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: scouting and stuff. But it's not the same. Now I'm

1035
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: getting ripped off here. Another thing, another piece of another

1036
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: piece of this that's not related, but simply reminded that

1037
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm reminded of. It's something we talked about earlier, which

1038
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: is that a lot of states um cut off, cut

1039
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: off your hunt day at some time. Hm. I only

1040
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: know that for turkeys. Wells myle Manu's talk about this

1041
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: mile Man in Post Warriors. They would go down to

1042
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: hunt geese, and they would hunt geese some places where

1043
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: you could only hunt geese till I can't remember what

1044
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,479
Speaker 1: it was noon. But this is back when there weren't

1045
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: that many Canada geese, you know, like like it wasn't

1046
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: like it wasn't like today where they're trying to like

1047
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: come up with creative ways to inspire people to kill

1048
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: more Canada geese. Uh, that's better. There weren't that many geese,

1049
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: but you couldn't huntil noon. And he said those geese

1050
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: would sit on a refuge and they would like normally

1051
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: a goose wakes up in the morning and the first

1052
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: thing on his mind, he's gonna leave his roost and

1053
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: they roost on open water, big open water. He's gonna

1054
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: leave his roost and go eat. The law had trained

1055
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: that those geese had learned to sit on the roost,

1056
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: and they would sit on the roost. And he said

1057
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: he could be exaggerating, but he said it was like

1058
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: at twelve oh one, the geese would leave the roost

1059
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: and go feed in the fields. They had picked it up. Wow. Yeah,

1060
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: but now it's primarily a turkey thing. We're hunting. California

1061
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: have to quit hunting turkeys at three. In Missouri, you

1062
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: have to quit hunting turkeys at one, I believe, and

1063
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 1: I think California was four. I feel like it was

1064
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: a very odd time, like very late in the day,

1065
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: because they don't want you going in. Well, what do

1066
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: you think of this path? Are started off? We kind

1067
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: of adopted um Missouri's rule. We are started off with

1068
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: noon and the explanation we got was that get the

1069
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: turkeys to break in the afternoon and made it easier

1070
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: to call the next day. They got it. They had

1071
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: all these different rationales for the gobble, more than that

1072
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: being pestered all through the day, and then um also

1073
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: the argument that they didn't like, they didn't think like

1074
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: the idea that people could sit and wait for them

1075
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: to come back to a roosting area and shooting mouth,

1076
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, coming basically ambushing coming back to roost. But

1077
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 1: you know we had only worked so well. It only

1078
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: works so well because the turkey doesn't have agree in

1079
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: his life. Like what, Doug, you look like you're like

1080
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: either having a heart attack or like what what? Well,

1081
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go in that whole thing about turkeys

1082
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: not using the same rusts and no listen, listen, yeah

1083
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: I am, I am unplugged his thing. Turkeys do you

1084
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: like to use the same rust? They do not feel

1085
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: married to a roust, use it when it suits them.

1086
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: But the idea, unless you're talking about some extreme desert

1087
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: situation where you have an oasis that has like a

1088
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: couple of sycamores growing in the bottom of it and

1089
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: that's the only way for that some bitch to get

1090
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 1: up off the ground, then you might kind of have

1091
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 1: him by the short hairs when it comes to setting

1092
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: up on his rust. Most turkeys like they'll roost in

1093
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: the same tree a bunch of nights in a row

1094
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: unless there's a reason not to. Okay, yeah, I don't

1095
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: want to get on plugs, so I agree with you.

1096
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 1: Now what what I don't understand. It's still it's it

1097
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: can be. It's totally go workable tactic. I mean, I've

1098
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: killed a handful of birds, but they're not like Okay,

1099
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: when I was recist, when I was researching my Buffalo book,

1100
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: I would read about hide hunters out on the Texas

1101
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: planes who would find an isolated water hole that was

1102
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: getting used, and when it got dark out, they would

1103
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: build fires and make a lot of rockets around the

1104
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 1: water hole to prevent any animals from approaching during the

1105
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: dark when it was hard to see them, and shoot

1106
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: and work in order to only allow them the opportunity

1107
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: to even think about coming for water during the daylight

1108
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: hours when you could kill them. And they would do

1109
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,439
Speaker 1: it in a way or they knew they had heard,

1110
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: you know the technical term by the short hairs and

1111
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: having identified its sole water source. Okay, that to to

1112
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: act like sitting a roost for turkeys is somehow where

1113
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: you're sort of like got them and you've you've backed

1114
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: them into a corner. Now, isn't true? Oh and now

1115
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: you're getting back to like the law of reasoning, right, Yeah,

1116
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: I told hi, I'm beyond the law reason. I'm just

1117
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: saying like I I don't think that that. I think

1118
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: that if you gave me the opportunity, here's the thing,

1119
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm talking turkey strategy. If you gave me the opportunity

1120
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:22,919
Speaker 1: to know what tree he was in, to know where

1121
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: he's roosted up, I would rather know and not do

1122
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: anything about it than to have an idea where he

1123
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: might be coming, probably quietly at night, and try to

1124
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: exploit his coming into that. I would rather just know

1125
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: that he was there and going in the morning. Anyway,

1126
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: it just isn't fail safe. It's not a fail safe

1127
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: turkey way. What Doug, God, I can't even breathe now,

1128
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: let me finish my evolution in Wisconsin turkey hunting, please.

1129
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: So we so we went from noon. So for me,

1130
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: I lost. So that's okay. So for many years we

1131
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: had this neon closure. We could hunt from what basically

1132
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 1: dawn till till noon. And you feel that they borrowed

1133
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: it from the start up from Missouri. That's it kind

1134
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: of explained that to us from they were selling us

1135
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: on the whole idea of a turkey season. Well, a

1136
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: decade goes by or so I can't run an exact date.

1137
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 1: Let me start have any discussions about, um, well, why

1138
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: not extend the season late a day. We're losing all

1139
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: this opportunity for hunters to go out and hunt these

1140
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: these great new birds we have. And so eventually we

1141
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: compromised because Lavis just want to just have opened the

1142
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: whole day. But we compromised for a number of years

1143
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: a five o'clock closure. Five o'clock you had to shut down.

1144
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: And then that went on and this guy didn't fall.

1145
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: So then we talked about it again. And I can't

1146
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: remember again, Doug, wasn't that long ago we probably have

1147
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: said open the whole damn day and then also stupp

1148
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: in five days periods, run it all right back to

1149
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: back in the season opened town Wednesday goes all the

1150
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: way to Tuesday and stuff, because must be originally five

1151
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: days would be a Wednesday through Sunday. Boys are killing

1152
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 1: fifty thousand turkeys a year. Yeah, and yeah, and actually

1153
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: not the population is kind of stabilized. Phone, it's it's

1154
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: um you know, phone this level. You know, we're shooting

1155
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: less now than we were back in the days when

1156
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: we had you know, this five days season, I think,

1157
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: or at least it's not not that long ago. Wasn't that.

1158
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 1: It's it's so much about turkeys and how how smart

1159
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: they're about being hunted to actual numbers. It's not about

1160
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: so many how many hours in the day we get

1161
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 1: to hunt. And to your point about the roosting, we've

1162
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: been hunting them now all day until sunset for a

1163
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 1: number of years in the population hasn't collapsed, you so,

1164
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 1: And I've tried that where I've I saw him come

1165
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: off fro the roost the morning, I heard him come

1166
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 1: off the roost, and I go back in there in

1167
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: the evening and sit down in that area. Neither picked

1168
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 1: me off or whatever. But I've never have gotten that

1169
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: opportunity record shoot that gobbler come back through the spring woods.

1170
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: That never happened. It still hasn't, so I have you. Yeah,

1171
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: I mean we've got roosting areas like where we got

1172
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: the birds this past year, that's traditionally there. But now

1173
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: again it's not that tree. But there's a whole sort

1174
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: of you know, a couple of different points and you're

1175
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: gonna be out there, So there's gonna be turkeys there

1176
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, just like there's gonna be deer there

1177
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. Because it's just that kind of place. So, um, yeah,

1178
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: of course it's not fail safe. So I agree with

1179
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: you if what you're gonna see, if we do wind

1180
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: up having problems with turkeys, what you're gonna see, I

1181
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 1: think before you see any adjustments in that area, you're

1182
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: gonna see adjustments and fall seasons. Sure. Fall seasons are

1183
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 1: like when you want to get serious, when you go like,

1184
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: oh man, we got a turkey problem or potential turkey problem.

1185
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 1: That's you're gonna see the triman's coming from these fall

1186
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: seasons that are hen hunts. Oh yeah. In Montana, one

1187
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: of the I think it's region two for turkeys. This

1188
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: spring you can kill two hands. I believe there might

1189
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: be one hand in the spring. They added one. They

1190
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 1: added a hand to the spring. So obviously that's saying

1191
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 1: that there's like they've got some and it's I think

1192
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: it's a place where there's a lot of private land

1193
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: and they're just overrun with yeah, and they're they're really

1194
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: trying to knock back the numbers. A thing to keep

1195
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: in mind in a place like Montana is turkeys aren't

1196
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: native there, right, So there are a lot of areas

1197
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: in Montana that have turkeys that would not because winners

1198
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: are so severe that have turkeys that would not have

1199
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,759
Speaker 1: turkeys if it wasn't for turkeys being able to exploit

1200
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 1: cattle operations ice A Hunt area and basically the southeast

1201
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: quadrant of the state, and it's a lot of remote

1202
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: areas and turkeys are just by May, those turkeys dispersed everywhere,

1203
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: but those turkeys congregate in groupings of hundreds where cattle

1204
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: are being overwinded because they come in and pick grain

1205
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 1: out of the ship graining operations. And if you re

1206
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:04,959
Speaker 1: moved those you would all together lose or like virtually

1207
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 1: lose the population. So I think in those places, because

1208
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 1: we're always having this conversation people like, oh, like blank

1209
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 1: is overpopulated or this species overpopulate, and you guys have

1210
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: to bring up like well, by whose measure, like who

1211
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: regards them? And often times you'll find that by whose

1212
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: measure winds up being an agricultural interest. So, yeah, if

1213
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: you've got a non native population of birds that are

1214
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: showing up on some guys farm, four hundred of them

1215
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: show up in November and they're gonna stick around till April,

1216
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 1: he might be like, by my measure, since I'm bearing,

1217
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: since I'm solely bearing the brunt of this all winter.

1218
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: By my measure, you've always got to shoot some of

1219
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 1: these hands, because that's when you start trimming into population.

1220
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: And I think our fall turkey season basically does runs now.

1221
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: We never get Oh yeah, it's just just never been

1222
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: much interest me. I was gonna ask you, do you

1223
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 1: have any idea what the numbers are turkeys killed in

1224
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: the fall compared to the spring. I haven't looked. Yeah.

1225
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 1: The only guy I know that's really into it was

1226
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 1: a friend of mine from from back home from school.

1227
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: He's really into because he raises he raises turkey dogs

1228
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: and so and you. In the tenth Legion he talks

1229
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: about this as well. Um. Colonel Tom Kelly discusses this

1230
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: in the tenth Legion that a fall hunting strategy. Well,

1231
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:33,799
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you boys that, I'm telling the listeners

1232
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: how you're generally hunting unless you're bushwhacking turkeys and the spring.

1233
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: What you're doing is you're you're exploiting the fact that

1234
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: they're in their breeding cycle and you are going out

1235
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: and making the sound of a female in order to

1236
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: lure in the mail. The work it's hard is in

1237
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: Turkey land. How things generally work with turkeys, is it

1238
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: the male gobbles and does his deal in struts and displays,

1239
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: and females come to the mail. What you're trying to

1240
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: do is be so enticing that you kind of undo

1241
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 1: that and cause the male to come to the female.

1242
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 1: You're trying to generate some frustration on his part, and

1243
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: he's like, what is her problem? As will Primo says,

1244
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go show her just how pretty I am.

1245
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: And he comes in and you kill him and the fall.

1246
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: You can't you're not doing that because the hens don't

1247
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: care about you know, you're not. You're not gonna draw

1248
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: in gobblers, but making hands sound they don't care. They're

1249
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: not breathing them. So the trick is is to disperse

1250
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: a flock, because then you need to locate each other.

1251
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: But a human isn't fast enough to disperse the flock.

1252
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: Like a human generally, if you go tearing after a

1253
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 1: flock of turkeys, they're so fast and wary the way

1254
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: before you get there, they're just gonna run off as

1255
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: a group and not lose track of each other. But

1256
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 1: a dog is low to the ground and stealthy and

1257
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 1: so fast that he can get in amongst the flock

1258
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: and spook the ship out of him and send them

1259
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 1: going off in all manner directions, at which point you

1260
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 1: set up and start doing like a basically a hurting

1261
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 1: call that the hens make as they're trying to regroup,

1262
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: and they're just out there going we weep, we weep,

1263
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: an other little noises, and they come back together and

1264
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 1: you call him in and take a poke at him.

1265
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: We got lucky once and shot two gobblers out of

1266
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: a flock that we had basically kind of called in.

1267
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: But also we're just in the right spot where the

1268
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: flock was, you know, moving down and ridge towards us,

1269
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: and the shooting of the two birds dispersed the flock.

1270
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: And then we're sitting around, you know, Jack John and

1271
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 1: high five in and all excited. And then they the

1272
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: same thing happened. So we had dispersed the flock, and

1273
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you can hear hands on both sides.

1274
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: What were they doing? It was? It was everything. It

1275
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: was kind of the cacophony. Yeah. Now, I got a

1276
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: buddy who used to when he kicked up a group

1277
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: of huns, he wouldn't shoot if he kicked up a

1278
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:04,560
Speaker 1: group of huns. He would kind of like, look the

1279
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: hunsl split, you know, they're like one in his direction,

1280
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 1: three and at direction to an at direction he would

1281
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:12,720
Speaker 1: kind of look at like after they all landed, he'd

1282
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: sort of picked like what would be the middle and

1283
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: go in and just with his mouth make a hun

1284
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:23,759
Speaker 1: noise and pull huns back into him just for funds.

1285
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 1: He's but also has hunting. Same thing. What I'm getting

1286
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 1: at is this guy likes the fall turkey hunt because

1287
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: he likes those damn dogs, raises breeds and sells the

1288
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: dog whose specialty is busting up turkeys. There's a guy

1289
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: over in east central Wisconsin that does the turkey dogs

1290
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 1: and he gets his dogs from some place Virginia. I

1291
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 1: guess there's there's a I think one of the fun

1292
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: things about people what's hunting dogs is just how into

1293
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: it they get. And this guy drives all the way

1294
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: to Virginia. I get that when you breed a dog,

1295
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: which I forget the the breed now because I'm not

1296
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 1: a dog personal turkey busting dog, turkey busting dog. And

1297
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: and and he's um John Freezes his name f R. E.

1298
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: I s I think, And he's such like he loves

1299
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: that sports so much that he'll actually take anyone that

1300
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: calls him along. A guy. A guy wrote to me

1301
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 1: there a day city looked up this guy after reading

1302
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 1: my article, called him up, found his name in the

1303
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: phone book of Rubber and John invite him up from Chicago.

1304
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 1: I think took him hunting, showed him a good time.

1305
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: And of course the day I went up a seconds,

1306
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 1: I think he got one. I think he got one. Yeah,

1307
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: but yeah, that hens are legal games, so no, yeah,

1308
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,480
Speaker 1: I want to clarify, I do not have any problem whatsoever.

1309
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: So long is the stable that that that is you

1310
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: know that you have a good stable population of birds

1311
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: that hunters agree is a good stable population of birds.

1312
01:16:54,600 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 1: But in hunting, um sort of traditional use patterns are

1313
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:04,160
Speaker 1: very important and and management and very important how we

1314
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: make our laws. And I if it had to come

1315
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: down and we had to pick spring or fall, I'm

1316
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 1: always gonna go song. I think most turkey hunt it's

1317
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: they don't call it spring fund it's spring thunder, right,

1318
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 1: they don't call that for no reason. It's not fall thunder,

1319
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 1: spring thunder Turkey. And I just feel like if someone's

1320
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: gonna have to get trimmed out definitely. If we do

1321
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 1: see lowering turkey numbers and someone's gotta get trimmed out,

1322
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I'm gonna vote for it. Being the

1323
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 1: other guy, and my guests would be that you won't

1324
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: see that happening. As long as our hunting seasons are

1325
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 1: dominated by deer hunters, the fall hunt for deer hunting

1326
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: and bowl hunting wives gonna be so popular that that

1327
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: interest in turkey hunting wife is gonna be secondary. And

1328
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 1: plus you have waterfalling going on. So I just don't

1329
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever seen any any evidence in Wisconsin,

1330
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,679
Speaker 1: WAGH in most states i'm aware of that has any

1331
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 1: problem with fall turkey hunting being a detriment, population irrelevant,

1332
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: basically good recreation. Like the take isn't substantial. It's almost

1333
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: like it's uh coincidental to other kind of hunting incidental incident. Well, okay,

1334
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,600
Speaker 1: it's like Tyson sitting sitting in a tree with a

1335
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 1: four ten shooting squirrels with his bowl. This is the

1336
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: same kind of thing. Understand he he deer hunts with

1337
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: a four tent. He shoots squirrels with his four ten

1338
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 1: while bow hunting for deer. Yeah, and it's actually killed

1339
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 1: deer that way him so and used always say that,

1340
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: see if I can get a turkey that way too.

1341
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:46,120
Speaker 1: So I kind of killed a turkey off his land.

1342
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: I think now I was on was right on the

1343
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 1: fence line there though, But that's where he actually did

1344
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 1: where he actually shot squirrels and then shot a buck.

1345
01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 1: I don't know he was a squirrel hunter. Yeah, well

1346
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:01,640
Speaker 1: not not not h Murphy level. He doesn't like go

1347
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,840
Speaker 1: to work with the tails hanging off his hanging off

1348
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 1: his jacket and whatnot. Um. In the fall in the

1349
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin, the hunt turkey hunters killed almost five

1350
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: thousand turkeys. How many killing spring? Yeah, roughly they killed

1351
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: five thousand in the fall. Does it say the hand

1352
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: tom breakdown? Uh? And that was just the abstract. I

1353
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: just breezed through, so I didn't get down to the numbers.

1354
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 1: I see, you're running a Green Bay Packers turtleneck under

1355
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 1: your shirt for your benefit. Can I make a quick

1356
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: correction though? I was wrong. I was wrong about the Uh,

1357
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 1: the female hand harvest in Montana in the spring, it

1358
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 1: was all they increased the numbers dramatically. It's like four,

1359
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 1: but it's all fall. So there's no, no hand harvest

1360
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: in the spring good because come on, yeah, come on

1361
01:19:55,920 --> 01:20:02,600
Speaker 1: a buddy mine Tommy Edson, Um, you know he's a

1362
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 1: little bit baffled by no. But he likes sports. He

1363
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: likes college sports. He doesn't like pro sports. But in

1364
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: Washington State they just did the fishing rags. Can remembers

1365
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 1: the hunting rags of the fishing rags, but they did

1366
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 1: it in the Seahawks colors. He texts the cover to

1367
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 1: me and it's like, it's nothing sacred. Pat Durkin, you

1368
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 1: want to hear the breakdown real quickly. Just gonna close

1369
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: her out, but go ahead. It's a roughly fifty fifty fall. Yeah.

1370
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 1: Females to males and adult female surprisingly made up thirty

1371
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: of the total harvest. Juvenile hands eighteen, Gobbler's thirty five,

1372
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:56,560
Speaker 1: Jake's twelve. M Yeah, so what's really incidental? Past? So

1373
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 1: you're running a Green Bay Packers notebook? That too? Yeah,

1374
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: if you had to pick, if, if if you had

1375
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: to pick, and someone said you can hunt the rest

1376
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 1: of your life or watch the Packers the rest of

1377
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 1: your life, what did you pick? Hunting maney in clothes? Good? Yeah, good?

1378
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: I actually miss quite a few games in the fall.

1379
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 1: Why don't you have a hunting turtleneck? Janni hasn't given

1380
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: me one. Uh. One of my comments on on the

1381
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: Packer Steve will be this is gonna count as your

1382
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: concluding thought. Oh, I forget that. Then I came up

1383
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 1: with a concluding thought. You know what I'm gonna do.

1384
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you mine. So now you are too

1385
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 1: concluding thoughts. Okay, um, I've I've told my kids, I've

1386
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: told my wife, I told close friends. Getting back to

1387
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 1: your whole stuff about funerals, this is the packers part.

1388
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 1: The packers stuff. If the day, when the day comes

1389
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 1: that I die, if I haven't done that will that will?

1390
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: I mean? And they're the ones that have to take

1391
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 1: care of me. And I guess I should say, when

1392
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 1: that day comes and they come to write my obituary,

1393
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 1: if I haven't done enough in my life to fill

1394
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 1: that obituary with substantial stuff, if they write them there

1395
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 1: he was a he was a die hard Packer fan.

1396
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: I'll be pissed because I'll think that that's what I

1397
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 1: accomplish in life, is anyone can be a Packer fan.

1398
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,600
Speaker 1: So you want to live a life so full that

1399
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: when one fills up ex column inches of space. They

1400
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: do not have to get down that part of it.

1401
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 1: There won't be no no filling of this. It'll be

1402
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 1: like and the next thing days He had two cats,

1403
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 1: survived Fluffy and survived by When I see it and

1404
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 1: everybody will know it's good right. He was a die

1405
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 1: hard packer. When I see that in people's obituaries, I

1406
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: always feel like, God, that's the best you can come

1407
01:22:57,439 --> 01:22:59,640
Speaker 1: up with for your good old dad. He was a

1408
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:02,560
Speaker 1: pack or fan is a badger fan. Come on. So

1409
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: that that was the one conclining thoughts. That's my instructions

1410
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: to my kids. That's the one I gave you, not

1411
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 1: giving you one the one I want to. I want to.

1412
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 1: I actually did thought this last week. I was down

1413
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 1: the Southeast Dear Study Group meeting it's doing. It was

1414
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 1: in Nashville this year, and I thought of you guys,

1415
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,640
Speaker 1: because only studied deer of the Southeast or it's like

1416
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: in the Southeast, it's it's he it's held in the Southeast.

1417
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: And most of the research I do is is from

1418
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: the Southeastern Universities in Southeastern UM all operations that have

1419
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,760
Speaker 1: like hunting clubs on their property and they actually do

1420
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: some research on it, and typically what it is, it's

1421
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: agency people, agency researchers that could be agencies from the

1422
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 1: federal government, state government. UM. Then also university and their

1423
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 1: graduate students and their doctoral students come in and get

1424
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 1: their research on deer and they all sounds pretty good.

1425
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 1: It's it's to me, I've been I've been going that

1426
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 1: was st year, gone to it and well you're going

1427
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 1: for twenty eight years. I started into this. I'll point

1428
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 1: know that Pat has more stuffed deer in his house

1429
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:08,800
Speaker 1: than he's gone to that convention am than on this

1430
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: past year. But elk anyway, um so one of the

1431
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: things that must sting a lot in the in the

1432
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 1: southeast though, because it's a um a growing population still is.

1433
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: I'll say the word two different ways, you know, coyote

1434
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: the way I pronounced it and coyotes the way you're

1435
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 1: dugging you guys pronounce it. I'll call yeah, and if

1436
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 1: you really hate him, and then I don't hate him,

1437
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 1: but guys that do hate him, I find call him

1438
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 1: that The first thing I thought about you guys, because

1439
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: most of those I know, it's most of the university

1440
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:44,000
Speaker 1: researchers pronounce a coyote. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding.

1441
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 1: You know the ronella maxim on this right right? Yeah,

1442
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: So that they exactly and so I thought, well, there

1443
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 1: goes Steve's theory because these guys, a lot of them

1444
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: are are trappers and they do a lot of reason

1445
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 1: still say coyote, coyote. Yeah, but um, I'll never switch.

1446
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:05,639
Speaker 1: You don't have to, Steve, But but continue, I'll messing

1447
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 1: your story up. So there are year you've gone down. Okay,

1448
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 1: So one one the takeaways when the coolest papers I

1449
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: thought they presented was on was that on coyotes. And

1450
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 1: this guy named John Kilgual, he's a researcher from South Carolina.

1451
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 1: He you guys know that the typical theory on coyote

1452
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 1: um and why they can repopulate so quickly that the

1453
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 1: more you hammer them, they more they pop up. So

1454
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 1: this is based on research from the West. Basically that

1455
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: they the researchers looked at cadets out west and said,

1456
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: and more you shoot these things, the more they bounced back.

1457
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,720
Speaker 1: So it's it's a feudal a fool's aaron to try

1458
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 1: to white pop coyotes. Can I can I add something?

1459
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 1: Go ahead. I hear this all the time. I hear

1460
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:50,599
Speaker 1: and and and it's I don't have a hard time

1461
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 1: like that's easy to imagine. I think it's I think

1462
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,800
Speaker 1: it's from what I've looked at, it's like, sure, that's

1463
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 1: that's true. If that was the case, then I would

1464
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: think that really pro kyo people would want hunters to

1465
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 1: hammer coyotes because it would make more coyotes. I like

1466
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,720
Speaker 1: the argument, but they don't. They don't. They use it

1467
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 1: as a way to say, I like kyles, I want

1468
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 1: more kyles. You shouldn't shoot kyles because shooting kyotes made

1469
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: more kyles, and you wind up in this weird sort

1470
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 1: of rhetorical land. Uh. He made that point in one

1471
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: of your podcasts a while back. No, it's it's it's

1472
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: it's a it's a point worth repeating because I think

1473
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a great point. And So, but what

1474
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 1: was fast thing about John John Kilgo's research I thought

1475
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 1: was that so that's the common thought that based on

1476
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 1: Western research, that the more counties you shoot, the more

1477
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 1: they will generate. They have a mechanism that's somehow they

1478
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:54,559
Speaker 1: triggered this compensatory um or what they call compensatory mortality whatever. Anyway,

1479
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: John John's group went out in like over a two

1480
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 1: or three year period, trapped two or three five coyotes.

1481
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 1: Start checking to see is there evidence of boosted boosting

1482
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 1: the population to reproduction. But I found was that no,

1483
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:15,439
Speaker 1: there's no compensatory reproduction taking place. Her. What's happening. The

1484
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 1: more the more you whack this one area, the more

1485
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: they come flooding in from the exterior areas. So unless

1486
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 1: you can have this huge geographic area where you use hammering,

1487
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,120
Speaker 1: the hell of these coyotes, they just keep coming back.

1488
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: And so his completing thought was, it's it's it's futile.

1489
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 1: We've gotta going to live with these counties. Yeah, they

1490
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: will perhaps adjust your what is at some point, but

1491
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,880
Speaker 1: um that you're not gonna ever stole down this this animal.

1492
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: They're gonna keep coming back, bouncing back. So they didn't

1493
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 1: find the compensatory thing that head out west. But but

1494
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 1: but here's the thing though not the thing, but the

1495
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,320
Speaker 1: thing to considered. I think that that reflects that research

1496
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 1: is we we discussed this before. Well, they're doing there's

1497
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 1: there's an area in Colorado where they're they're they're not

1498
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:05,800
Speaker 1: seeing good recruitment on mule deer, and they're worried about

1499
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:10,240
Speaker 1: an isolated mule deer herd in Colorado, And what they're

1500
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 1: trying to do is slow down the predation loss of fawns.

1501
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: So in the old days, you might have gone in

1502
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: and tried to do a lot of predator removal work,

1503
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:24,519
Speaker 1: just generally throughout the year, try to do predator removal work.

1504
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:27,600
Speaker 1: But what they found is what I think they were

1505
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 1: going to try was instead of doing it that way

1506
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:33,800
Speaker 1: where you're like removing predators in October, say in hopes

1507
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 1: of having a good fawn crop in May, is that

1508
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: you would try to do it in a very targeted

1509
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:48,919
Speaker 1: way that was removing the predator load. However, temporarily removing

1510
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: the predator load at a precise moment when you want

1511
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:54,760
Speaker 1: it down. Because of that thing you're saying, you do

1512
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:56,760
Speaker 1: all the work in October. Oh yeah, you know, we

1513
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 1: killed four lions out of this basin. We're hoping see

1514
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of fawn recruitment, but in that time it's

1515
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:05,600
Speaker 1: just been backfilled. So to try to work in and

1516
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 1: go like to come in and do it commensurate, they're not,

1517
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, in order to try

1518
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:19,680
Speaker 1: to alleviate the predator load. HM. That's interesting, isn't that

1519
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: Taking that idea of like, um, you were explaining when

1520
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 1: we were in Alaska about how Caribo we all dropped

1521
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,680
Speaker 1: their fonds, uh or their calves. I mean you have

1522
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: a short period of time to sort of overload their

1523
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 1: overload the predator swamping, thinking that if you were to

1524
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 1: trickle it out over two months, you're gonna lose them all.

1525
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 1: But they all hit the ground on the same day

1526
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: and they're vulnerable for how many ever hours or days afterwards,

1527
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna have some survival. Yeah, And typically it makes

1528
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 1: sense what you're talking about, because you know, the other

1529
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 1: thing the researchers always show is that basically those fonds

1530
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 1: make it two or three months, they're not the point

1531
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:58,320
Speaker 1: they can run, you know, the different predators and you know,

1532
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:00,640
Speaker 1: have a decent chance to s Having it said, the

1533
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 1: first couple of weeks they were like get hammered by

1534
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's bears or coyotes, rivers in the area.

1535
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,639
Speaker 1: That's a big predator. But you know, and then there's

1536
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 1: areas like in Wisconsin and most of the north eastern

1537
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 1: part of the country where we've had these two animals,

1538
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 1: counties and white tails, living side by side for at

1539
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 1: least in modern areas at least a century now, and

1540
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 1: there does really not have much impact on them. Yeah,

1541
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 1: I like, I agree with the assessment that there's just

1542
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 1: that you're gonna have to I mean, how does your

1543
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: cotes kyle through expanding their range right, more people can

1544
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: have to live with them. And what it would take

1545
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 1: two get rid of them is what things that we've

1546
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: tried in the past without without great effect, with tremendous

1547
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 1: um unintended consequences, which is that you'd go back into

1548
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 1: playing the poison game, which is devastating to so many

1549
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:03,680
Speaker 1: species that think he's right. But I don't think that.

1550
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: I don't think that it would that someone would look

1551
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: at all that and think that using predator control, having

1552
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 1: that be part of your tool kit and using research

1553
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 1: to learn how to use it more effectively. I think

1554
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 1: that it's going to remain a good management tool um

1555
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: as long as it's stays socially acceptable. And I would

1556
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 1: be like I would, you know, I would be very

1557
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: disappointed if we at some point decided that that it

1558
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 1: wasn't something we're gonna use because at times it can

1559
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 1: be very effective in recovering stabilizing populations. And the thing

1560
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:49,080
Speaker 1: that I always find fastening when I, you know, work

1561
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: on this kind of stuff is the guys who will

1562
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:55,840
Speaker 1: have a county contest, which can be controversial, and the

1563
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 1: justification will quick jump to, as we are these counties

1564
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:01,600
Speaker 1: so that the deer have a chance to liver on

1565
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 1: this area. And I think that's emails. Just worry about

1566
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 1: how many how many counties being killed on the highway then,

1567
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 1: because you know that's just most nothing. So let's just

1568
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:14,640
Speaker 1: I guess my point. Let's let's argue these things on

1569
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 1: the fact that you're having fun, you're not harming anything.

1570
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 1: Um well well yeah, but but but but the pelts

1571
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:26,960
Speaker 1: too are worthwhile. I don't see why you have to

1572
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 1: apologize for killing a fur bearer and taking the pelt.

1573
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 1: But the thing is, well, yeah, you can go look

1574
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 1: at what they can do with caribou herds by doing

1575
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:41,000
Speaker 1: wolf work in Alaska. It's not like there are times

1576
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:43,599
Speaker 1: when it's total effective. Go read up on the history

1577
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 1: of the forty Yeah. Well, no one's saying that pats

1578
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 1: don't have an impact. I've never tried to make that claim,

1579
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:53,639
Speaker 1: but I guess I'm saying the case in kyote. It's

1580
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 1: hard to say that they're really um, that they are

1581
01:32:57,240 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 1: causing problems in some areas, but what can you actually, dude,

1582
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: have stopped it. You know you're not gonna stop that

1583
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 1: county that eventually they'll probably find a way around that

1584
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 1: one too, you know, So that's all I'm saying. Huh, Doug,

1585
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: I noticed that we both said coyote rather than coyote. Well,

1586
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: just because you know you want to be here, he

1587
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: kept saying coyote. Soas in my head, I I quit hunting.

1588
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 1: I've never hunted him. That was incidental shooting the occasional

1589
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 1: coyote kot um. But and now I'm welcome and was

1590
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 1: a part of the control during landscape. Well yeah, it's

1591
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:38,360
Speaker 1: I means they're just out there trying to make a

1592
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 1: living too. It's really interesting to me out walking around

1593
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 1: in the wintertime when you can follow and watch how

1594
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:47,720
Speaker 1: they sort of hunt. They're real good moochers. They have

1595
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 1: a real their pattern, Like three you know a group

1596
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 1: of them and you watch their trails and it's like

1597
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 1: they're hunting the same way. They're either learning from me

1598
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 1: or I'm learning from them. You haven't figured out which

1599
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: one yet. Many many many years years ago we did

1600
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 1: a mooch and uh we moved to kylets past me.

1601
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't have I don't have like when

1602
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 1: I see one, I don't um when I see one,

1603
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 1: I don't even like doesn't even I don't I have

1604
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:18,599
Speaker 1: no thought in my head about uh taking a poke

1605
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 1: at it. It's not that tasty. No, the last one

1606
01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 1: I killed, we ate. It just wasn't worth it to me.

1607
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I sold some when I was younger,

1608
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: and fur prices were better sold with the tax nurvery trade.

1609
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:39,640
Speaker 1: Um before this is before they exploded in numbers. And

1610
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,600
Speaker 1: now yeah, when I see one, it's just like not

1611
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 1: even like like there's no part of me that's like,

1612
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: oh man, I want to get that thing. Yeah, I'm fast,

1613
01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: I'm fascinating, very very personally, it just like doesn't click.

1614
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:56,040
Speaker 1: I'll actually watch um segments of shows once while their

1615
01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 1: hunting County West or someplace, or I stumbled into a

1616
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 1: hunt recently near Lodi where guys were out in their

1617
01:35:04,160 --> 01:35:07,200
Speaker 1: trucks with their hounds and getting ready to do a hunt.

1618
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:10,080
Speaker 1: And if I hadn't been so pressed for time, I

1619
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 1: would have stopped and tagged along because I think it's

1620
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:15,639
Speaker 1: kind of a fascinating process. Oh yeah, that is for sure.

1621
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:17,719
Speaker 1: But it's like the same thing. I don't watch the packers,

1622
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:19,759
Speaker 1: but I don't think that it's bad to watch the packers.

1623
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:23,880
Speaker 1: I just have no desire to watch the packers. I

1624
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: think you've made it clear over the years that you

1625
01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 1: just have no interest in that. It's not like I'm

1626
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 1: not like making a statement about the morality of packer watching.

1627
01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 1: You you got any concluders, m I didn't know what

1628
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 1: was that time? Already? You're ready to be done? Huh?

1629
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,519
Speaker 1: Get nothing other topics for me? No, I feel like

1630
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:46,840
Speaker 1: I know, I mean, I feel like I just have

1631
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 1: that feeling like, well, we have this this fella. Uh

1632
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:57,200
Speaker 1: As my concluding thought, I'm gonna Greg w wrote in

1633
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:02,879
Speaker 1: to uh say that, uh, speaking of the meat tree episode,

1634
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 1: that really what really stood out to him was everyone's

1635
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:11,520
Speaker 1: perception of the event in hindsight, and he was surprised

1636
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:13,919
Speaker 1: to hear me say that I felt a little guilty

1637
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 1: and regretful towards the experience, which just just how high

1638
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 1: I would have described my reaction to it. But about

1639
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 1: a bear attack, yeah, the Bear Attack. If you haven't

1640
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,519
Speaker 1: listened to it, go listen to episodes eight six and

1641
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 1: eighties seven titled The Meat Tree Part one and two.

1642
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 1: And uh, and Steve, you felt grateful for the newfounded wisdom,

1643
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 1: and Uh, I just want to, you know, follow up

1644
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:40,640
Speaker 1: to him and say that I do feel grateful for

1645
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 1: that wisdom. You know that we obviously, I'm gonna my

1646
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:51,480
Speaker 1: tactics now going into Bear country are much better educated,

1647
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, than what we're gonna do when we're out there. Right. Yeah,

1648
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: But I think that he was saying. What he was

1649
01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:59,839
Speaker 1: saying is that you felt like a level of response

1650
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: ability and felt that if something bad had happened, it

1651
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 1: would have been in some ways on your shoulders. Yeah.

1652
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 1: Well there was that, and I still feel that way.

1653
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:09,760
Speaker 1: But I think he was maybe talking and talking about

1654
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 1: how at the end you and Garret were like glad

1655
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 1: that happened. That was awesome, and I was kind of like, yeah,

1656
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:18,760
Speaker 1: I could maybe do without it, you know. And he

1657
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:20,640
Speaker 1: wants to know if you've changed. Yeah, you want to

1658
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 1: know if I if my feelings had changed about it. Okay,

1659
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 1: so if you could snap a wave a magic wand

1660
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:28,600
Speaker 1: and have it had not happened, would you wave the

1661
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:35,800
Speaker 1: Wand probably not? Now again, there was there is value

1662
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,120
Speaker 1: in the experience, right, But at the time I just

1663
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 1: felt like it was it was so intense and it

1664
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: could have gone so awry that that was making me

1665
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 1: make the call of like, you know what, I rather

1666
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 1: it had not had happened, you know, thinking that maybe,

1667
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:49,840
Speaker 1: but if if it's all going to play out the

1668
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,439
Speaker 1: same way and we all walk out of there and

1669
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 1: get to just talk about it, then sure, why to

1670
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 1: have a good story. Yeah, no, dirt myth had been

1671
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:01,640
Speaker 1: carried off and killed. Yes, And he said would you

1672
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:04,519
Speaker 1: wave the magic Wand of course I'd be like, oh,

1673
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:08,640
Speaker 1: wave wave rolled dirt. But dirt was a couple of

1674
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 1: weeks before when we were up there, he had the

1675
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 1: encounter with that grizzly saw who came down over the

1676
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 1: hill and he was brushing his teeth, And when we

1677
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:19,360
Speaker 1: were sitting around talking about it later, he goes, well,

1678
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:20,680
Speaker 1: I think it'd be kind of cool if I'd get

1679
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:24,120
Speaker 1: a scar from a grizzly bear. Careful what you wish for, dude.

1680
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 1: We're magnets for him man, just lurking around. Um, so

1681
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:32,240
Speaker 1: you would not wave the magic wind? Do you feel

1682
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:35,639
Speaker 1: like our luck is running thinner? I think it got thick.

1683
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:38,560
Speaker 1: Now you think it got thick. I think it was

1684
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:42,360
Speaker 1: getting thin thin, thin, thin, thin, and then that happened

1685
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:45,519
Speaker 1: and now it's gotten thick, thick, thick thick. Like Let's

1686
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:46,880
Speaker 1: say you let's say you were all stud in the

1687
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:49,759
Speaker 1: plane rack right, also the small plane the plane crashes

1688
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 1: that we all walk away. What are I wouldn't think

1689
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 1: that we're going to be in another plane crash? And

1690
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:58,120
Speaker 1: the book Dispatches by Michael Hare, which is his He

1691
01:38:58,280 --> 01:39:00,439
Speaker 1: covered the He covered the vi He was a journalists

1692
01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:02,160
Speaker 1: that covered the Vietnam War, then came home and wrote

1693
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:05,479
Speaker 1: a book about Vietnam called Dispatches. And he meets a

1694
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 1: kid in the book, he meets a kid from Miles City.

1695
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 1: And every day, or not every day, but whenever he

1696
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:15,760
Speaker 1: gets a list of fatalities, and there in the military publication,

1697
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 1: he's always looking in there hoping to see someone from

1698
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 1: Miles City on the list. And Michael Harris, why do

1699
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:22,960
Speaker 1: you want to see someone from Miles City on the list?

1700
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 1: He goes, because we're the chance of two guys from

1701
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:28,400
Speaker 1: Miles City are gonna get killed in this war. So

1702
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 1: I feel like that, like if you are in a plane,

1703
01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 1: if we're in a plane crash, I'd be like, well,

1704
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm glad everyone lived because that was our crash. We're

1705
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:39,639
Speaker 1: not gonna have another crash because you feel that way

1706
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:42,960
Speaker 1: that we've had like our like I think, very very

1707
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:48,000
Speaker 1: close in that direction. I feel like things were going

1708
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:51,719
Speaker 1: in that direction and now they went in that direction,

1709
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:54,200
Speaker 1: and now they will walk away. I don't think that

1710
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 1: we're still on the slope. I think that that was

1711
01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:01,080
Speaker 1: the valley floor. I don't know why. That's just my feeling.

1712
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:03,560
Speaker 1: I feel like it was. This sounds like something you

1713
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 1: or your old man would say, but I feel like

1714
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:10,000
Speaker 1: that was the valley floor from which we will now

1715
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:15,040
Speaker 1: climb out, partially because our again, our tactics and are

1716
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:17,600
Speaker 1: and the way we go about in that country might change. No,

1717
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,840
Speaker 1: it's more, it's not it's not based on logic. It's

1718
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: based on just the way because other things, other encounters.

1719
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:29,640
Speaker 1: I feel like it didn't other encounters. I feel like

1720
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:34,680
Speaker 1: there were unspoken words between us and the bear or

1721
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:38,280
Speaker 1: like you know, but this felt like just hitting the

1722
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 1: valley floor, it felt like, Okay, that's where that was headed. Now.

1723
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: I expect quietness based on nothing, based on nothing? Well,

1724
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 1: what brought that up? As I was reading that story

1725
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:57,840
Speaker 1: about that the Arctic Explorer, I was telling you about

1726
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 1: Antarctic Antarctic, sorry, and he was saying that every time

1727
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:05,559
Speaker 1: they dropped a foot into a crevasse, which sometimes can

1728
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:08,599
Speaker 1: be you know, a couple of inches of foot wine

1729
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:12,000
Speaker 1: and and that same death, or it can be you know,

1730
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: giant multiples of that right too, and it can be

1731
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: your death down there. But then every time that you

1732
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:21,720
Speaker 1: punch your foot through, you're just like man, then you know,

1733
01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 1: you're just getting closer and closer and closer, and your

1734
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 1: luck is just getting thinner and thinner and thinner and

1735
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:30,040
Speaker 1: thinner and thinner. Yeah. I like that. But let's say

1736
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 1: you fell into one and caught yourself and climbed out,

1737
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 1: would you feel like okay, yeah, Like, now, what are

1738
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:41,080
Speaker 1: the chances of following into a big one again? Pretty high?

1739
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:44,240
Speaker 1: But you're saying it be less, So it just it

1740
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:47,280
Speaker 1: depends on perception. Yeah, I hear you. This can't be measured.

1741
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 1: Aren't you afraid by even voicing this idea that you're

1742
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:57,720
Speaker 1: bottomed out and going back up, that you're tempting fate? No, no,

1743
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:02,040
Speaker 1: only because bears don't listen. They're not listening right now.

1744
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 1: They're they're out in the woods just plotting, but they

1745
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:07,560
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know. I

1746
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: feel that way. It doesn't make any sense. This is

1747
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:12,719
Speaker 1: how I feel. It's almost irresponsible for me to share

1748
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 1: my thoughts on it. It makes so little sense. It

1749
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:18,320
Speaker 1: just seems like an odds thing. You know that the

1750
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:21,320
Speaker 1: odds are you won the lottery and now you're not

1751
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:23,640
Speaker 1: gonna win it again, or you lost a lottery in

1752
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:28,519
Speaker 1: that case, and now do dudes and yeah, do dudes

1753
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:33,439
Speaker 1: who play the tax on stupidity and win? Are they like?

1754
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:38,400
Speaker 1: Are they like? Are they like? H man, no point

1755
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:41,880
Speaker 1: in buying another one of them tickets. They're going out

1756
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:45,599
Speaker 1: and spending half of their winnings to buy more. All right,

1757
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:51,519
Speaker 1: did I give you? You took one? I'm good. I

1758
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,840
Speaker 1: feel like I'm back in good graces here, so I'm gonna,

1759
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna sit quietly for the rest

1760
01:42:56,280 --> 01:42:58,280
Speaker 1: of the time. Thanks for joining us.