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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: This is the show where we recap our old early

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Speaker 3: episodes with new case info and lots of old feeling.

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Speaker 1: Today we're rewinding to episode one oh six, which we

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Speaker 1: name Courage Shoulders.

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Speaker 2: Did that hit you at all as familiar? No, you

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Speaker 2: brand new?

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking stand up straight, courage.

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Speaker 2: Courage Shoulders, the fuck knows, Let's find out. Let's find

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Speaker 2: out today.

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Speaker 3: This episode is from February first, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen to the intro of episode one oh six

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Speaker 1: Courage Shoulders Courage Shoulders. Hello, Hi, and welcome to to

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Speaker 1: my favorite the podcast that's asking everyone a.

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Speaker 2: Question that it refuses to answer, It uses.

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Speaker 1: To answer or acknowledge, right, It just it makes you

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Speaker 1: ask the question.

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Speaker 2: It walks away quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it's like quick asking me so many questions, Mom.

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Speaker 3: Like you open this conversation Dad with a question what's happening?

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Speaker 1: And then you respond with a question of like what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with me? Oh?

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Speaker 2: You put it back on me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Oh is that what you do? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And just at the beginning of the colle right, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even I was here eating cereal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was loudly eating sugar corn pop right compulsively.

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Speaker 2: What are you? Chocolate milk come into my line? Whip

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Speaker 2: chocolate milk.

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Speaker 4: As with chocolate milk in it?

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Speaker 2: Have you done that before? No? But someone should.

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Speaker 3: That sounds insane, it does. It's your new mc nugatini.

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Speaker 2: But I used to.

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Speaker 1: Put spoonfuls of sugar on like check your cereal. No,

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Speaker 1: not like on non sugar cereal, yes, which is disgusting.

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Speaker 3: And it's the same, oh, I know, like rice crisp

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Speaker 3: with four teaspoons of sugar.

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Speaker 1: And then the bottom is just like this sludgy sugar,

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Speaker 1: crunchy milk mess.

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Speaker 2: And then suddenly cartoons are more beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, everything's more beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Everything's so much more beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Your teeth hurt?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they eventually fall out.

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Speaker 4: What's going on?

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Speaker 1: Hi?

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Speaker 2: How are you? I'm really good? I'm I'm doing really good.

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Speaker 2: I feel high energy. I'm eating a lot of gencing.

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Speaker 3: Just chewing on gin saying. Can I kick it off

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Speaker 3: with this? I'm going against all former models of this show. Okay, skippers,

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Speaker 3: pay attention. I'm going to do a hometown murder right now.

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Speaker 3: Of interest. Okay, it was pulled by Stephen for Stephen

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Speaker 3: about Stephen. Great, let's do it, not in my backyard,

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Speaker 3: not with my Stephen. Okay, the subject line is BTK

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Speaker 3: taught my husband how to tie not.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Oh no, one of those b that

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Speaker 1: one of those letters is not you know b part

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Speaker 1: find mm hmm yeakay.

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Speaker 2: He was kind of good at it.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear about it. I mean, if anyone's gonna teach.

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Speaker 3: You, Hi, ladies, quick hometown murder for you. So my

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Speaker 3: husband's scout master was the BTCH cake killer. And then

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Speaker 3: she writes Dennis Radar. Now, I don't mean to make

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Speaker 3: fun of you, because I'm sure you're a true murderino

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Speaker 3: and maybe you're you're you're what do you call autocorrect

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Speaker 3: made it say Radar, But to read it as Dennis

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Speaker 3: Radar makes me laughter. It sounds like it's like he's

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Speaker 3: like one of the bosses and the Jetson's or something.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like a new wave, like a

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Speaker 1: new wave name, like you're in a band and you

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Speaker 1: change your last name to sound cool new wavy.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen that really cute bass player Dennis Radar?

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Speaker 3: Grous Sorry anyway, I'll say Raider from now on. So

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Speaker 3: he grew up only a few houses away from the

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Speaker 3: Radar family outside Whichita, Kansas, also attending school with his children.

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Speaker 3: Raider would take my husband's scout troop overnight to on

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Speaker 3: overnight camping trips, where he would often leave at some

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Speaker 3: point with an excuse to get supplies, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: What yeah, you just have.

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Speaker 3: To nip off her supplies in the dead of night.

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Speaker 3: In hindsight, he was using the camping trips as an

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Speaker 3: alibi first quote, scouting future murder missions no pun intended

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Speaker 3: snor and possible murders. At the time the murders were happening,

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Speaker 3: it was thought the BTK was focusing on single mother households.

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't know that, and.

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Speaker 3: I did be Toka, which was my what my husband's

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Speaker 3: family was. So this was particularly disconcerting when a very

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Speaker 3: loud and barkie family dog went missing from the backyard

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Speaker 3: a couple weeks before someone broke into their home, leaving

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Speaker 3: behind a pair of binoculars and stealing nothing. Oh No

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Speaker 3: happy to report that his sisters and mother are all

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Speaker 3: alive and healthy to this day. Can't say the name

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Speaker 3: for the dog, which was never found. Oh that's can't

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Speaker 3: say the same for the dog or the name or

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Speaker 3: the I thought she was trying to say, like, do

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Speaker 3: not speak of him?

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Speaker 2: What if his name is Radar?

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Speaker 3: This whole he was named after Radar O'Reilly from mash Okay.

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Speaker 3: But this was also interesting, even though it's a second paragraph.

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Speaker 3: One of the last super random things about BTK. His

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Speaker 3: house went up for auction a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 3: with the proceeds going to his family. The woman who

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Speaker 3: bought the house was an ex stripper and strip club owner.

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Speaker 3: She did an amazing thing. She had the fucking house

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Speaker 3: torn down. She said that she wanted Raider's wife to

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Speaker 3: have the money to start a new life. To this day,

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Speaker 3: it's an empty, vacant lot in the middle of the block.

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Speaker 3: Please feel free to see the attached before and after

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Speaker 3: picks that her husband shot. When we first started dating,

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Speaker 3: he had this picture of a house framed, and I

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Speaker 3: was always like, why does he have this artsy picture

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Speaker 3: of this ugly ass house in his cool Brooklyn apartment.

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Speaker 3: After I found out what it was, he put a

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Speaker 3: ring on it. That fucking thing went into store it.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, go stripper lady. Go go, lady, I have one.

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Speaker 1: So if we're doing it's not her hometown. What you

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Speaker 1: got a story? It's called my grandfather hunted the Zodiac Killer,

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Speaker 1: m interested and treated Okay, hello, and this is all

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Speaker 1: one word Karen, George, Stephen, Vince, Elvis, Dottie, mee me, Karen.

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Speaker 1: I forgot your dog's name and I'm so sorry, but

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Speaker 1: hello doggies.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So basically she heard this stuff, so she wanted to

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Speaker 1: let us know. My grandfather is David Toshi, Dave Tashi,

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Speaker 1: Tashi yas so funny. I was on the way home

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Speaker 1: from our trip, our Nashville show. On the plane, I

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Speaker 1: was watching Zodiac m HM, which is so good and

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Speaker 1: fucking okay.

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Speaker 4: So here's what happens.

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Speaker 1: He was an SPFD SFPB four years and an inspector

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Speaker 1: on the Zodiac case. Growing up, he would tell my

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Speaker 1: sister's nice stories about working in the case, the crime

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Speaker 1: scenes he was called to you, and most importantly all the

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Speaker 1: squirrels and Arthur Lee Allen's freezer.

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Speaker 2: He always talked about the squirrels.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, reporters got our relatives phone numbers and addresses,

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Speaker 1: and we either call or show up to our houses

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Speaker 1: wanting to talk to my grandpa about the case. On

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Speaker 1: the rare occasion he was contacted directly, he would get

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Speaker 1: pretty pissed and never gave him an interview. This also

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Speaker 1: included numerous attempts from Grace Smith, who's that.

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Speaker 3: Robert Graysmith is the guy that wrote the zodiep book

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Speaker 3: the movies based on, and he's that illustrator that Jake.

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Speaker 2: Jolnhoplay, you are so smart? Wow, okay, this one. It's

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Speaker 2: my favorite movie.

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Speaker 4: Understandable.

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Speaker 1: I'd be pretty fucking tired of talking about it too,

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Speaker 1: But when the movie started shooting, he was happy to

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Speaker 1: beat an advisor on set and got a huge kick

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Speaker 1: out of hanging out with Mark Ruffalo.

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Speaker 2: I would too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus, come on, who wanted to perfect my

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Speaker 1: grandpa's mannerisms and such?

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Speaker 4: Ruffalo totally nailed it.

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Speaker 1: And this is so funny because I was like, what's

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Speaker 1: this fucking animal cracker bullshit?

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Speaker 4: It looks so stupid. Why do they have to add this?

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Speaker 1: But then she says, right down to the way he

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Speaker 1: spoke the animal crackers in the glove box and taking

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Speaker 1: the tomatoes off of his sandwich. Grahams was pretty jazz

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Speaker 1: to be given the recognition, and the rest of us,

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Speaker 1: as his family, were happy he was portrayed in a

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Speaker 1: positive light rather than the inspector who couldn't crack the

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Speaker 1: case for the sake of a high grossing blockbuster. So

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Speaker 1: she goes on this that her grandpa's sixty eight. He

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Speaker 1: is not in the best of health anymore. And this

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Speaker 1: was written a while ago, so she had just spent

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Speaker 1: This is written at Christmas. She had just spent Christmas

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Speaker 1: with him. Every time I visit, I never know it

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Speaker 1: will be the last time I see him. But he's

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Speaker 1: a badass and keeps hanging on. So here's a couple

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Speaker 1: of pictures. And then she wrote us another letter just

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Speaker 1: the other day that he had passed away. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: fucking rip and big ups to grandpa for being a

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Speaker 1: bad ass.

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Speaker 2: Motherfucker.

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Speaker 3: Well, he has been portrayed in films twice now, which

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Speaker 3: is like, how much about us do you have to be?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just you're in several films in Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: People are like, Ruffalo played you.

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Speaker 2: On those fucking bowt Eyes. Love that movie.

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Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable with the fact that I find him darling

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Speaker 1: and cute and wonderful and have a crush on him,

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Speaker 1: but he looks like my uncle and it creeps me out.

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Speaker 1: I'm my uncle who came to our show. Yes, seeds

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Speaker 1: to be like a fucking you know, what's his name?

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Speaker 1: The detective about looking detective who was in like.

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Speaker 4: An episode of Colombo Too.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say Inspector Cluseau because I didn't know

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Speaker 3: what we were doing, Inspector Gadget.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was a lookalike thing. I was.

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Speaker 3: My friend Laura used to live up behind the Gelsons

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Speaker 3: off Franklin, and she had like a barbecue one afternoon

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Speaker 3: and there was a guy there that I was like, God,

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Speaker 3: that guy's so cute. And it was after that first

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Speaker 3: big movie, the.

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Speaker 1: One he was in with the fuck lor Lenny people.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, you can count on me. That's right, you

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Speaker 1: can count on me. We didn't remember because we've never

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Speaker 1: said that to anyone, and they absolutely can't and they

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Speaker 1: will not, and they know it, and if they think

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Speaker 1: they should, I'll ask some questions.

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Speaker 4: They did it.

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Speaker 2: It's such a foreign phrase.

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Speaker 4: It is.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 4: One other thing I wanted to say.

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Speaker 1: I started watching the new show on Netflix that is

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Speaker 1: so fucking good.

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Speaker 4: It's called Wormwood. Oh yeah, do you know about it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so it's it's about uh, it's Errol Morris's it's

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Speaker 1: like a okay, it's a docudrama.

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Speaker 4: So it's like, have you watch it?

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Speaker 2: I watched the first uh two or three? No, no, no, like.

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Speaker 4: Part of the first app Okay, it's so fucking good.

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Speaker 1: It's really it's about this fucking CIA employee who in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three jumped out of window of at New

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Speaker 1: York City hotel.

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Speaker 4: Ruled it a suicide.

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Speaker 1: Turns out he was being tested on from MK Ultra

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Speaker 1: with LSD, jumped out the window, and it's the movie

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Speaker 1: is about or the whatever movie is about his son

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Speaker 1: trying to fucking figure out what happened. It's incredible, and

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Speaker 1: like all the actors are so good in a fucking

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Speaker 1: Peter sarsguard so good and ours. You know how much

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Speaker 1: we love stars.

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Speaker 2: I love all the Stards, guards, wet, all the names.

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Speaker 1: Tim Blake, Neil Nelson, that great actor, Bob ballabanal Bob Valaban.

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Speaker 4: It's fucking really, it's really good.

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Speaker 2: That's really awesome. I could just you know what it was.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we talked about this in person, but there's so

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Speaker 3: John Ronson my new favorite author person audiobook narrator. He

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Speaker 3: has a story and I think it's it's the men

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Speaker 3: who stare at goats because there's them Kalters in there

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Speaker 3: about he went and met that guy and learned all

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Speaker 3: about that story and within that story. After the dad died,

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Speaker 3: like a couple before the mom died, him and his

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Speaker 3: brother went on a bike trip across the United States

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Speaker 3: as like a I think a twelve and a fourteen

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Speaker 3: year old. They rode their bikes literally across the United States.

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Speaker 3: And it was in the paper and stuff and it's

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Speaker 3: super crazy like and when you hear it in the audiobook,

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Speaker 3: it's like, this can't be real.

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Speaker 2: And they did.

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Speaker 1: It's so like exactly what you're like. I knew the

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Speaker 1: government was like this and did this shit.

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Speaker 4: I knew it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we get to know it. You know,

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Speaker 2: so nuts. Oh, I've watched have you started watching The Alienist? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 4: It's good.

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Speaker 2: Sorry you don't love it.

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Speaker 1: It's just like I read the book and loved it

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Speaker 1: and have an idea head of what it looks like

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Speaker 1: and what it's like.

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Speaker 4: But it does seem very true to the book.

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Speaker 2: I get that though, you make a movie in your head. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: especially when you love a book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, I'm enjoying it so far.

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Speaker 2: I was tripping out last night on the Uh.

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Speaker 3: How brilliant the opening credits are because they basically they're

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Speaker 3: running the building of.

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Speaker 2: New York backwards. I love that.

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Speaker 3: It's such a cool It's the coolest way to set

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Speaker 3: that tone.

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Speaker 2: And then you're just back so far.

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Speaker 3: That, like her working at the police department, is a

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Speaker 3: huge deal in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the hugest deal is the shoulders on her

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Speaker 1: dresses that are like past the top of her head,

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Speaker 1: like fucking shoulder pads. No, this is like shoulder towers.

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Speaker 1: That's where all her weapons are. That's where her jar

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Speaker 1: of arsenic is. That's where she keeps her courage. That's

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Speaker 1: right when she can tap into it. It's like like

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Speaker 1: with the hats that you have that has beer on it,

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Speaker 1: with a strong you need when you need a sip

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Speaker 1: of beer.

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Speaker 2: It's a courage shoulder. It's courage shoulders.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how does she take in the courage?

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Speaker 2: I don't know through her nip Listen and scene you

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Speaker 2: get it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we are back in it. How long was that

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Speaker 1: that intro. How long did we used to go? Oh?

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Speaker 3: That was one hundred years every time. That's why the

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Speaker 3: skippers complaint. Right, It wasn't just that we were talking

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Speaker 3: about other stuff for a bit, like another podcast, right, or.

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Speaker 1: Like true crime in any way, we were talking about cereal.

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Speaker 3: We couldn't stop talking about food and ourselves endlessly.

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Speaker 1: You know what's been s brought home recently speaking of cereal.

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Speaker 1: But he's a big cereal freak.

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Speaker 2: Me too.

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Speaker 1: He brought home peanut butter checks checks, number squares peanut.

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Speaker 2: What's the base wheat rice?

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Speaker 1: I think it's born.

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Speaker 2: I think it's both.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so it's really fucking good. That sounds really

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Speaker 1: like not too sweet either.

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Speaker 2: Will you take a picture of the box? I will

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Speaker 2: and send it to me. I will you know what

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Speaker 2: I have right now? That's really good and secretly good,

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Speaker 2: especially for older people.

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Speaker 3: Okay, raisin brand crunch. Oh so it's like you're being

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Speaker 3: good to yourself with the raisin brand.

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Speaker 2: I gotta have brand, you got it, But then get

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Speaker 2: some crunch in there. You're tricking yourself loving it.

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Speaker 1: I was going to go on with the raisin nut brand,

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Speaker 1: but then I just realized we were doing exactly what

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Speaker 1: we just said that week.

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Speaker 2: I can not do it.

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Speaker 1: We can't be stopped.

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Speaker 2: This should have been like a bad food podcast. Oh,

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Speaker 2: we could talk about food for fucking ten more years. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's transition. That's the next one. Okay.

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Speaker 3: I did not remember getting an email from Dave Toshi's granddaughter,

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Speaker 3: who was the lead investigator and Mark Ruffalo in the

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Speaker 3: Zodiac movie. That's who wrote us an email. I did

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Speaker 3: not remember that.

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Speaker 2: That's so cool of us. That makes us so cool.

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Speaker 1: It makes us Yeah, did you see the new Zodiac

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Speaker 1: like theory?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Basically, Michael Connolly, the author for Prime Authors, says that

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Speaker 1: they did an AI thing with one of the codes

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Speaker 1: and it was broken, and they think that this same

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Speaker 1: suspect that was on the Black Dahlia list is also

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Speaker 1: the Zodiac killer.

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Speaker 3: That's AI. This same program that when asked what's best

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Speaker 3: to do for your health every day tells people to

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Speaker 3: eat six small rocks. That's something I saw one time.

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Speaker 1: I also think about, like would people how would people

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Speaker 1: feel if like a big true crime cold case got

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Speaker 1: solved because of AI and put someone brought them to justice.

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Speaker 1: We'd have to really fight with ourselves to like be

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Speaker 1: cool about true.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if it's scraping like millions and billions of

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Speaker 3: books that have all theorized about all of these different things,

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Speaker 3: who knows. But I feel like that's the same thing

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Speaker 3: of like, get ready because when these monkeys finished typing

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Speaker 3: and Shakespeare's play comes out, we're gonna party where it's

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Speaker 3: just like, well, let's see. But the AI that my

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Speaker 3: endodontist used told him to pull two teeth of mine,

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Speaker 3: and then when he x rayed them, he was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: the AI was wrong.

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Speaker 2: Your teeth are fine. Oh my god, that happened to me.

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Speaker 2: Don't use AI for teeth. I mean they're using it

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Speaker 2: for everything.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well this is an AI and we

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Speaker 1: promised you that that's right.

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Speaker 2: I remember The Alienist. Yes, I watched every episode such

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Speaker 2: a show.

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Speaker 3: Okay, now let's get into we're gonna we're just gonna

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Speaker 3: stop doing what we what we've always done on this

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Speaker 3: podcast and get right into Georgia's story for this episode

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Speaker 3: about Teresa Catherine Foster.

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Speaker 1: Should we who's first this week? Who went first at

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Speaker 1: the last episode last?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Like no, the episode people have heard.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm gonna leave that one to Steve Karen went

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Speaker 1: first last time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Karen did Krista Worthington lest Okay, all right, so

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Speaker 2: I'm first.

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Speaker 1: This is the story therees, the murder of Teresa Catherine Foster.

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Speaker 1: And I got a ton of my information from a

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Speaker 1: really great article from twenty eleven. Twenty eleven, I don't

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Speaker 1: even need to say the whole thing from a magazine

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Speaker 1: caller or an online magazine called Westward, and it's called

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Speaker 1: The Case of the Kidnapped co Ed Allan Pendergrast wrote it.

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Speaker 1: Here we go ten thirty am on Thursday, November eleventh.

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Speaker 1: We're in nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: Here we are twelve miles south of Boulder, Colorado. Two

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Speaker 1: rabbit hunters come across the body of a young woman,

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Speaker 1: faced down half third in the snow beside a frozen stream.

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Speaker 2: She's dead, obviously.

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Speaker 1: She appeared to have been dumped there from the bridge

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Speaker 1: that was fifteen feet above along Highway ninety three. Her

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Speaker 1: jacket was tightly wound around her neck and her sweater.

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Speaker 2: Was pulled up. Her bra was still on, but below

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Speaker 2: the waist.

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Speaker 1: She only had on her loafers and bobby socks, so

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Speaker 1: she had been quote battered almost beyond recognition, as one

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Speaker 1: reporter put it, and to the rabbit hunters, it was

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Speaker 1: obviously she was because the newspapers had been in a

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Speaker 1: crazy frenzy with the missing co ed who had disappeared

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Speaker 1: two nights earlier. So Teresa Catherine Foster was an eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old engineering student at the University of Colorado and

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Speaker 1: had been walking home around ten pm the night she

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Speaker 1: disappeared from a rosary meeting on the Boulder campus. She

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Speaker 1: had been heading downtown well at Main Street, towards the

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Speaker 1: house of a professor at the college and his family,

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Speaker 1: where she lived in exchange for chores. So immediately like,

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Speaker 1: the professor did it right, that's what But it's not true. Okay,

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Speaker 1: don't go down there, don't worry about him.

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Speaker 4: He didn't do it.

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Speaker 2: Put that card aside in this game of clue.

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00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 1: Yes, not necessary. So the next morning the family was like,

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Speaker 1: she's not here. This is very much not like her.

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Speaker 1: Where could she be. She's not this type of stay

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Speaker 1: out all night, So they called the police. So Teresa's

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Speaker 1: known as a dependable girl. She's super self sufficient. She

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Speaker 1: was the ninth of eleven kids grown who had grown

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Speaker 1: up on a farm outside Greenlee, Colorado. She milk cow,

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Speaker 1: she hunted, She's an honor student. She didn't swear, smoke,

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Speaker 1: she was religious and had a high school sweetheart.

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Speaker 2: Even though she was kind of boyshy.

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Speaker 1: So she was a really typical girl, not the kind

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Speaker 1: of person to run away with someone or to get

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Speaker 1: into any trouble. So the day after her disappearance, twenty

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Speaker 1: miles from where her body was found. The next day,

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Speaker 1: so her body han't been found yet, the local farmer

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Speaker 1: had found a bloody crime scene at the local lover's lane,

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Speaker 1: so he goes to the locals liver lane. He says

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Speaker 1: that there's so much blood in a ten foot area

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Speaker 1: along the road that he thought someone had been had

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Speaker 1: slaughtered one of his calves.

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Speaker 2: Oh, she's initially, but.

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Speaker 1: There were bits of hair and scalp tissue, a broken

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Speaker 1: grip of a forty five automatic, and a ring and

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Speaker 1: white scarf identified as belonging to Teresa, and it showed

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Speaker 1: that she had put up a fight. But after her

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Speaker 1: body was found the next day, her autopsy showed she

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Speaker 1: had been raped, bludgeoned, and strangled.

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Speaker 4: And it was the first homicide and seventy two year.

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Speaker 1: History of the university Whoa and the first murder and

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Speaker 1: Boulder in nine years, the story would be big. The

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Speaker 1: editors of the Denver Post freak the fuck out and

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Speaker 1: they start their own massive investigation on their own in

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Speaker 1: a way that you can only get away with in

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Speaker 1: like nineteen forty eight, and they ultimately put the case

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Speaker 1: and the eventual trial of the suspect at risk by

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Speaker 1: the means of what's it called newspapering this story? Investigating,

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Speaker 1: investigating and not advertising.

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Speaker 2: What's the word promoting? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Telling the story? Let me see, you know?

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Speaker 2: Telling? Yes, telling, like what I'm doing?

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Speaker 1: Got it? So this man named Palmer Hoyt is the

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Speaker 1: editor and publisher of the post, the Denver Post. He's

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Speaker 1: a former writer a pulp detective story, so he's fucking

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Speaker 1: big on this murder mystery story. He launches a campaign

445
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: to catch Teresa's killer. So at the time, it was

446
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: normal for newspapers to hire quote experts to help cover

447
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 1: murder trials that get an astrologer to prepare the killer's horoscope.

448
00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 4: It's not what I'm saying.

449
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 2: Forty eight mm hmmm, God, that seems late to be doing.

450
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: Maybe they were doing in the twenties, but then it

451
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: was like kind of a still a normal thing.

452
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 3: God, that's but I just would never well that's the

453
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 3: newspaper though.

454
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking like more.

455
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: Police, but yeah, no, no, no, this is all the press

456
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 1: still though.

457
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little nutty.

458
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 1: And it's so like grasping its straws, like we need stories,

459
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: we need to sell papers. Let's get anything we can

460
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: get into these papers. It needs to happen.

461
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 2: What does the moon say about this exactly?

462
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,239
Speaker 4: What does it tell about them?

463
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: So they'd get a psycho analysis to hypothesize the mind

464
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,239
Speaker 1: of the killer based on what little information they had. So,

465
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: for barely forty eight hours, forty hours after Teresa's body

466
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 1: was found, the sky Palmer Hoyt hired a man named

467
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: Earl Stanley Gardner to come in from New York, and

468
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: he had been offered the amount of money most reporters

469
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: made in a year to come in because this guy

470
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: Gardner was a self taught attorney.

471
00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 4: Didn't graduate school.

472
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: I guess could do that at the time. Yes, no, no, yeah,

473
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 2: I got all those books and I did for sure.

474
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm an attorney. I didn't take any test for graduate.

475
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: Can you see my vest? Yeah, it's I'm an attorney.

476
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: See my briefcase right here. Look, don't worry about it.

477
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: It's right, it's all in there. Look and listen to

478
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: me as an attorney. But he wears tap shoes. He

479
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: wears tap shoes. Yes, he had become famous after that,

480
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: he had become a famous writer of pulp novels, create

481
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 1: and eventually created Perry Mason. Holy shit, he's the dude

482
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: who created Perry Mason.

483
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: They was a self taught lawyers. Huh wow.

484
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: They bring him in. This guy Palmer Hoy, the editor

485
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: of The Okay, So they bring him in. He at

486
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: the time made him rich and the most widely read

487
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: living author on the planet.

488
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 4: So this guy's a big fucking deal.

489
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: And people are going to buy the newspaper that this

490
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: guy is writing for.

491
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 3: They're borning too, They're turning their newspaper into a pulp

492
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 3: novel around this story.

493
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like if you were, like, Kim Kardashian's

494
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: going to be on my fucking episode of whatever the

495
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: fuck I'm in my zine, So you're gonna buy the

496
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: zine that what did that happen?

497
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: It would be a great way to represent Kim. I

498
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: all knew.

499
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, just more Kim in text more Kim. It's not

500
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 3: visual with Kim in this time. It's more about her poetry.

501
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: The black and white copies I make at Kinko's are

502
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: going to turn out great.

503
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: Kim loves collages.

504
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: Kim loves collages, and she's there for all of your fanship.

505
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 2: There you go, let's keep doing.

506
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 1: This, So he said, I am I am trying to

507
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: present to the readers of the Denver Post the situation

508
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: as it might appear to the eyes of Perry Mason,

509
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: the fictional lawyer detective who has solved so many cases

510
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: in my book. So he's fucking there to solve crimes

511
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: and sell books whatever. So he had insane access to

512
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: the investigation, and it was treated like a vip by

513
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: the police and detectives and investigators too, who were like

514
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: smitten by him as well. The DA the Boulder Sheriff

515
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: as well as detectives gave him access to their files

516
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: and all the information on the case. They just like

517
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: let him come to the station and read everything he wanted.

518
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: He followed a bunch of leads that didn't pan out.

519
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: He basically sucked it, detecting not in a book that

520
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: he had written. The story about.

521
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 3: It's different when you're detecting by making up it up

522
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: as it goes along, right.

523
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: Or like when you write what happened and then you

524
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: saw what happened, it's different. So he followed a blood

525
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: trail that turned out to be animal blood, speculated that

526
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: the killer cut his hands based on bloodstains, and called

527
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: for the public to report any weirdos or suspicious dudes.

528
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: Gathered many and so people started calling in a reporting

529
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: random people. The posts and all these leads and shit

530
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: were written about in the papers, so every time some

531
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: weirdly would happen, it would be written about the post.

532
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: The Denver Post created and detailed and made up scenarios

533
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: of the possibilities of Teresa's murder, so basically wrote fiction

534
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: of what happened and published it as fact. They took

535
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: liberties with the story, fictionalized it, and distorted the evidence.

536
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: Of course, the fuck term of the day was sex

537
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: fiend like that was just on every cover of every paper.

538
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: One of the lines was what dark and brutal desires

539
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: lie within the hidden places of some human beings, What

540
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,719
Speaker 1: thoughts of perverted pleasures and gnaw at the hearts of

541
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: some human creatures? What terrible and godless passions lie within

542
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: the bosom of some we pass perhaps on the street.

543
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 4: It's like, calm down, dud.

544
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: Well, you just said the same thing three times. Take

545
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 3: it elsewhere if you've got some theories.

546
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: Here, right, And it's like, well, keep asking me the

547
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: same fucking question over and over. Totally so, the Denver

548
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: police fielded an average of two hundred calls a day

549
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: about said fucking weirdos that they were like, turn it.

550
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: In, Well, sure, yeah, they're everywhere. I mean they're everywhere doos.

551
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: Ultimately, though, the main suspect was found when his wife

552
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: turned him in twelve days into the hunt for Teresa's killer,

553
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: Eleanor Walker. A woman named Elan Walker tells the Bolder

554
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: detectives about her husband, thirty one year old Joe Sam

555
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: Walker from Eldorado Springs. She said he had come home

556
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: late the night that Teresa disappeared, with his clothes bloody

557
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: and a wound on the top of his head. He

558
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: had burned his bloody clothes and washed out and repainted

559
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: the trunk of his car. Oh totally normal, you know,

560
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: as like you do like and that to do list

561
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: for Sunday. Yeah, everyone knows always up right at the top.

562
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: Get your cheek cleaned every six months. Repaint your fucking

563
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: trunk of inside trunk of your car ever three months, yeah,

564
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: three months.

565
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: Just really get in there and do new colors every time.

566
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: Yeah it's fun. Yeah, maybe wallpaper. Hey, you know something fun?

567
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: So wound burned repainted. He also told his wife he

568
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: disposed of a forty five pistol and a parka and

569
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: one a park So the fucking Denver Post also put

570
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: a thing in that was like, you know, call about

571
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: these weirdos and any clues you have, let the police know.

572
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 4: If you can't get a hold of the police, call us.

573
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: Oh.

574
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: So all these people were calling and like I have

575
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: this clue, this cool and this clue they had. This

576
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: woman had found like hidden away and like pipe a

577
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: storm drain, some bloody clothing, including a parka, and like

578
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: a rat and all these things. The Denver Post had

579
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: taken the bloody parka and told her the other stuff

580
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: wasn't important, so she had thrown it away.

581
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 2: Good. Uh huh.

582
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: Yes, So definitely listen to the fucking newspapers if they

583
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: tell you that evidence isn't important.

584
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: I mean, it's funny because you, this is a lot

585
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 3: like that book I'm writ that I was reading on

586
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: the plane.

587
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: It's the same but in the tens. But it's the

588
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: exact same thing.

589
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 3: Where like, once a murder happened, then people just came

590
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: into town that were like, I'm an independent private detective

591
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: and they could be anybody and they could all access

592
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: all areas of anything, right, everything recently that they were

593
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: like applied logic to process. Yeah, it's like, how about

594
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 3: nobody stands around.

595
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: Here and no one gets all the information?

596
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we keep it to ourselves.

597
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: Yes, so they So he had gotten rid of a

598
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: pistol in a parka, some of the one being found.

599
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 4: He Joe was arrested that night.

600
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: So this dude, Joe Walker's story of the night of

601
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: the murder was that he had gone to a drive

602
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: in and had a couple of beers, and then he

603
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: had picked up a couple. On his way home, he

604
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: had picked up a couple who were in their twenties

605
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: hitchhiking on the same street. Teresa disappeared from a couple

606
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: they had asked to be taken to a lover's lane.

607
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: The man that he had picked up of the couple

608
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: drink from a pine of whiskey, and the woman argued

609
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: with him about needing to get home and.

610
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 4: Let's see da da da da dad.

611
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: So they get to the lover's lane and the man,

612
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: who to Joe described as short and stocky in his

613
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: mid twenties, said he wanted to drive the car from

614
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: there on for whatever reason.

615
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 4: Walker was like, no, you can't drive my car.

616
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: They got into an argument, and Joe says they began

617
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: like fighting, punching each other outside the car, and then

618
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: the man found Joe's forty five in the glove compartment

619
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: and used it to club Joe in the head and

620
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: Joe goes unconscious at this point.

621
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

622
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: When he comes too, the man is gone and the

623
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: woman is dead, half nude body hanging out of the

624
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: car trunk. He finds her like that. Yeah, yeah, he's

625
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: panicked and quote scared stiff. So he puts her body

626
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: in the trunk and drives south and disposes of her

627
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: body off the ridge and tosses her clothes after her.

628
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Then he goes home to try and wash away all

629
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: the blood. So he says someone else killed her and

630
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: he disposed of her body because he was scared.

631
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he just had to do what he had to do.

632
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

633
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't tell authorities.

634
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: No, definitely, don't bring people to the place where you

635
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: can prove you didn't do it right.

636
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: Also, your wife isn't on your side. She's gonna tell

637
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: on you, So be a little more chill about that.

638
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: You haven't been that cool to her for like twenty

639
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: five years.

640
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: She's not stoked on you.

641
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So the cops thought this is a bullshit story.

642
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: Obviously they poked all these holes in it and his wife,

643
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: but his wife ends up believing he's innocent, even though

644
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: the papers go wild and tarnish Joe and are like this.

645
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 2: Is the sex fiend? Well, and also is didn't she

646
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: start it? Yeah? And then she just convinced he did

647
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: the wrong thing. Yeah, oh wow.

648
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

649
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: The Denver Post soon gets all this, just finds all

650
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: this disturbing info about Joe. In nineteen forty seven, he

651
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: was arrested in Oregon on a complaint that he'd made

652
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: quote loot advances were two girls while driving a delivery truck.

653
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: But the post headline was Oregon police disclosed girls eleven

654
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: and twelve were molested. So like all this crazy shit

655
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: and then so he goes to trial in nineteen forty

656
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: nine and the local jury is picked and of course

657
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: they've been reading these headlines constantly.

658
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, for fucking months.

659
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: There was over two hundred and thirty articles in less

660
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: than six months written about this.

661
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: Wow, it's a lot.

662
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: So there's hair, blood, fiber evidence that ties him to

663
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: the scene, but they never tested the semen that was found,

664
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: which is really weird, even though the defense pressed for

665
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: tests because they said that it would prove that the

666
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: client wasn't the one who raped her. It was this hitchhiker, right,

667
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: So I don't know why they never tested it. It's

668
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: really weird.

669
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 4: A waitress at.

670
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: The diner the drive in where he had been said

671
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: that she had served Joe and a young woman shortly

672
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: after ten the evening.

673
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: She disappeared, and.

674
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: The jury comes back two days later the verdict of

675
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: Getty of second degree murder and he sentenced to eighty

676
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: years of life.

677
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: So they think he was taking her out on a date,

678
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: not a date as much as like, hey, i'll give

679
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: you right home.

680
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: We you just come get it, because she was having

681
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: a coffee, like will you come get a coffee with me?

682
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: Oh, and I'll take you home but at the drive

683
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: in movie theater.

684
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: It's a drive in like restaurant. Oh, restaurant, you know what.

685
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I immediately went to movie theater. Yeah, but

686
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: he had had beer and she had coffee, And it's like,

687
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: why are they did they know each other?

688
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: Why are they hanging out? I mean because I always

689
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: go to like the fugitive style. What if what he's

690
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: saying is true?

691
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: But I know it doesn't sound like it, like the

692
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: idea that he would be going so far as to

693
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: repaint your truck.

694
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

695
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 4: No, disposing of a body speaks of.

696
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: Guilt, yes, right, I think for sure.

697
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, less than a month later after he's put away,

698
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: six months after Teresa's murder, two students from the same

699
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: school are attacked next to Boulder Creek while on a

700
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: blind date. The assailant hit the woman in the head

701
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: with some kind of metal pipe and she was able

702
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: to get away, but her date, Roy Spore, had his

703
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: leg in a cast and couldn't run. His body is

704
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: recovered from the creek the next day. His skulls fractured

705
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: in several places. His murder is never His murder has

706
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: never been found either by coincidence or not, Just as

707
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: Cherisa was, he's an engineering student whoa So two engineering

708
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: students in six months are attacked in bludgeon to death

709
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: in the same way, in the same way, in the

710
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: same area.

711
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: So there is a possibility, but this coincident the fuck.

712
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 4: Or that it's not that it's the same.

713
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: Murder, that it's a serial killer, but that he's innocent.

714
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the engine engineering student thing could be

715
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: a coincidence.

716
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: I'd have to see some number.

717
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, how many engineer students are there? Invited by a million,

718
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: by x x x a million, and then go ahead

719
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: and round that off to three. So yeah, there's three

720
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: engineering students. Two of them had been killed.

721
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's border line of majority.

722
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: If I were that third one, I'd get the fuck

723
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: out of town.

724
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 3: I would get on a train by in disguise and

725
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: I'll get out of town.

726
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: Or is he the killer?

727
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: Oh fuck, I have to be the only engineering student?

728
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: So sorry? That was him calling. That was the bell

729
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: that when you get it completely right, That's what that was.

730
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: That when the theories go and go and go, and

731
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: we finally hit on what happens.

732
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: Karen's phone rings, God texts me and says, yep, here

733
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: you go. You're doing God's work.

734
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 4: You're doing my work.

735
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: He said to say, Hi Georgia, hey bro, and that

736
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: actually your people are the ones that are right.

737
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 4: Oh good.

738
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, she said that's right. Okay, that's what she said.

739
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: That's what she That's what God she said.

740
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: Okay, blah blah blah.

741
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: After twenty years after Joe gets locked up, the Colorado

742
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: Supreme Court overturned his conviction due to his claims of

743
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: pre trial publicity. So right before they are like, pretty

744
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: quickly before this Sam Shephard, remember him. He's a doctor

745
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: who maybe killed his wife, maybe didn't yeap in Ohio,

746
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: his conviction had been overturned because of the media involvement

747
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: and how much bullshit was talked. So even if he

748
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: did it or not, it doesn't matter. He didn't get

749
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: a fair trial. So based on that, the stude show

750
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: Walker is like, I had it fucking worse, and they're like,

751
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: yeah you did, and they overturned his conviction.

752
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah.

753
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: So they concluded that the Denver Post had injected itself

754
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: into the investigation investigatory process by distorting evidence, presenting speculation

755
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: as fact, and dubious detective work as infallible, and they

756
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: described events that never happened and generally whipped up publicity

757
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: quote so extensive, so slanted and prejudicable, so calculated to inflame,

758
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: and so all perversive as to make a fair trial

759
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: for Walker impossible. So whether or not he fucking did it,

760
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,479
Speaker 1: they let him go. Yeah, he maintained his innocence until

761
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two when he hanged himself in a Texas

762
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: motel room. Shit, So we don't know who killed her,

763
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: and we don't know if it's him. I'm going to

764
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: guess it is, but you know.

765
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: But still there's the doors open.

766
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: I just and I'm sorry to correct you, but this

767
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 3: one people are going to talk about.

768
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: Hung All perversive, is what you said.

769
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: But it's all pervasive and perversive I think is like

770
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 3: a different right sort of a fetish thing, the all

771
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: all the dirty things you can.

772
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's perversive, though I say I

773
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: meant I don't know. I want to say it is

774
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: correct that I meant that.

775
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: Well, you can do that if you want to.

776
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: What was the words I used last time that ended

777
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: up being I mean, dude, what was it?

778
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: It was proclensity?

779
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 4: But it was proclivity and propensity, Yeah.

780
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Which turns out are the same, are the same, and

781
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: so proclensity is basically I was mashing upwards in.

782
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah in retrospect. Yeah, I don't not say that.

783
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 4: No, No, I was doing it on purpose.

784
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: Then, right, Okay, we're back. Are there any updates for this?

785
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: No case updates that we did receive a hometown from

786
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: a listener titled Earl Stanley Gardner actually a motherfucking justice

787
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: seeking murderino. So here it is, Hi, ladies, animals and Stevens.

788
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: I was listening to George's account of Teresa Catherine Foster's

789
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: murderer during my commute when she mentions Earl Stanley Gardner

790
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: while this dude is known for Perry Mason and in

791
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: this case, his questionable investigative assistance and even more questionable loeducation,

792
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: I freaked out. I think I gasped alone in my

793
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: car because I spent the better part of a year

794
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: researching Gardener and his true crime column, The Court of

795
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: Last Resort for my honors thesis who Smart. The column,

796
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: which ran from nineteen forty eight to the nineteen sixties

797
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: in a pulp magazine called Argacy, stood a him on

798
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: the rote narratives of other true crime magazines where the

799
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: justice system always caught the bad guys. Instead of retelling

800
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: these stories again and again, Gardner investigated cases where the

801
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: justice system had purportedly failed to nab the right guy,

802
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: making it an early example of true crime, which manages

803
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: to captivate audiences as well as impact the cases they

804
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: can cover. All told, Gardner and his column contributed to

805
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: the exoneration of seven Men.

806
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: Wow, so yeah.

807
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: Even though he's most known for Perry Mason, Our Dude,

808
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: Gardener should also be remembered for pissing off the authorities

809
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: and getting people.

810
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: Out of jail.

811
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: One Exonerie Clarence Bogee, even became engaged with a reader

812
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: that found him after reading Gardner's columns about him Exoneration and.

813
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: Matchmaker not a plus.

814
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: Much love from a new cat owner and forever Murderingo Leslie.

815
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: Oh, did you send a picture of your new cat

816
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: and see it? Tell your cat? I said, that's my

817
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: favorite jumper sticker. That's pretty incredible. Yeah, I want to

818
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 2: read more about it. I'm want to read that you've

819
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 2: never heard of that?

820
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: No, all right, let's get into Karen's story about Luigi

821
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: LNGI the shampoo Killer.

822
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 3: Okay, so this my murder this week is from one

823
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: of those packs of true crime training. First Steven gave us, well,

824
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 3: you gave him to us two Christmases ago, is that right?

825
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 4: Yeah?

826
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I belive that long time.

827
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: I know.

828
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: Oh my good.

829
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 3: So I think I might have gone through all of mine,

830
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: Like I think if you gave us four or five packs.

831
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: Each, I didn't open all the I'm really weird about

832
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: that because it's just such a special thing when it's

833
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: in a package.

834
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: But I mean, are you going to open on? I

835
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: don't know.

836
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm scared, like I want to save one unopened.

837
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: It seems to open the other four. But there's good

838
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: stuff in there. I know, I know I need to. Okay,

839
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: do it?

840
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I get what you mean. But then well

841
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: I'll just tell you this and you can decide for.

842
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: Your Should I do a video of the you know

843
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: how they do like unpackaging videos?

844
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 2: Yes?

845
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 4: Should I do that with.

846
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: Do it.

847
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: Perfect?

848
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: Please log onto Georgia at YouTube dot net.

849
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: For the new unpacking put it on.

850
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: Our Instagram, make it an Instagram story. I hate those

851
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: oh shot because they go okay, why am I talking?

852
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: They disappear in twenty four hours. Right, what's that about.

853
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 4: I know it's stupid.

854
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: It's for just throw away culture. Everything around is this

855
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: throw away. Don't get me started.

856
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: Okay, well here's what I will tell you. So I

857
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 3: have gone through all of mine, pulled out a lot

858
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: of them mafias because sorry, it's just not my jam,

859
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: gotten a lot of great ones. But this one was

860
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: from a brand new pack that, sorry, Stephen, is not

861
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 3: the pack you gave us, but a listener that we

862
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 3: met in Las.

863
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: Vegas gave us.

864
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 3: And I pulled this out on the plane, I think,

865
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: probably flying home or flying a Phoenix, and I laughed.

866
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: Out loud, like a real creep at.

867
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 3: This specific one, this specific one, and then was overjoyed.

868
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 3: And then I was like, I'm finally one ahead, like

869
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 3: I know what I want to do, which just never happens.

870
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 3: I always feel like I'm scrambling to think of things.

871
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 3: So I'm like, here it is whatever.

872
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 4: I'm excited.

873
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: It's a little short though, because it is a.

874
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 3: Foreign crime and it's a one off. So most of

875
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: the articles that I found that were the same it was, yeah,

876
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 3: people regurgitating the same article to the point where there

877
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: was one that was just somebody that had taken the

878
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: end of the story and put it at the top

879
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: of the paragraph and then basically told it backwards where

880
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: it was like but word for word it was the same.

881
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: And it's like they hit translate, yeah, and it's a

882
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: translate bad translation.

883
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: You know, make it your own, you put something in

884
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 3: there that's for you.

885
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: But anyway, so.

886
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 3: Thank you for the listener who gave us as I'm sorry,

887
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: don't have your name on this piece of paper.

888
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 2: That's really uncool. Here's what I will say though.

889
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 3: Those True Crime Trading cards were written by Valerie Jones

890
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: and Peggy Collier and the art is drawn by Paul

891
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: Lee and it was all done in nineteen ninety two.

892
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: Oh I love this shout out right, yeah, because.

893
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: They made all those fucking things. And I love it's

894
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: two women and it's two women, and they took heat

895
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 3: for it. Remember when when they came out and everyone's like,

896
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: this is disgusting and this.

897
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 4: Is this culture of celebrating murderers.

898
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, where it's like, no, it's just a bunch of

899
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 3: great interesting for me.

900
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: Us twenty years bro, it's history, baby listen, baby bro.

901
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 3: Also, it's out, it's all out of Forestville, which is

902
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 3: a little town north of Petaluma. Oh, probably about half

903
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 3: an hour going toward the Russian River.

904
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: That I know very well.

905
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: That's your fucking hood. So to invite them to our

906
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: if we ever have a Sacramento show.

907
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: That's a good idea, or a show in Santa Rosa.

908
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, Sacramento.

909
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: You guys can stop sending us your threatening postcards that

910
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: you've been sending us.

911
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, We have things in the works for you,

912
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 3: you beautiful demanding listenings has worked and will work. Yeah, okay, okay, sorry, no, no, no,

913
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: So this is the story of the murder Luigi Longi.

914
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: Now I don't speak Italian. This is a surprising Wait,

915
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: you don't. I don't speak Italian. I'm sorry, what so

916
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if l O n g h I

917
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 3: long High is ice is songy Longie is what I'm MONGI?

918
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

919
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: So. Luigi Longie was born in nineteen fifty four to

920
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: Italian parents in Switzerland, and from a very early age

921
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: he had a sexual fetish that got him into a

922
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: lot of trouble with the law, which one it's a

923
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 3: very interesting and rare one. At age ten, he was

924
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 3: arrested for stealing women's wigs and bottles of shampoo from

925
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: hair salons in the neighborhood.

926
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: That is an have you heard anything about this? No?

927
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean that's a new fetish that I haven't heard of,

928
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: and from such a young age.

929
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what happened? I got this.

930
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: Just to go into I was trying to be like, oh,

931
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 3: what would that childhood obsession with hair? What would that

932
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: mean that specific? I guess we'll call it it's a

933
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: paraphilia or a fetish, but it's I can't find anything

934
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: about it anywhere. It only brings you to the one

935
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 3: where you trickophilia, I think, where you pull your hair out.

936
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 3: So but a bumber one that is. Yeah, that's a

937
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 3: tough one. I had a friend that used to pick

938
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: a little part of his eyebrow all the time when

939
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: he was stressed out, so you knew that he was

940
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: like in the middle love an edit or something.

941
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: When he like, part of zybro would be gone. My backs.

942
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: It always grew.

943
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: I knew a little girl who when I was yet little,

944
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: who pulled her hair out. It was really sad, and

945
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: her brother like threatened all her friends, all the girls

946
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: in her grave.

947
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: If you fucking make fun of my sister, I will, Oh,

948
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: that's all.

949
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: I know.

950
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 2: It's very sweet. He like kind of yeah, it was

951
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: really sweet.

952
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 3: Also, I think there are a lot of childhood things

953
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 3: like that that it's common.

954
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: I think a lot of.

955
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: People will have everyone. Everyone shows her anxiety in different ways.

956
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 3: I used to do the thing or I wouldn't take

957
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: my jacket off on the playground even though it was hot.

958
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: Ooh, I don't know. I would read weird.

959
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: I always thought that people were putting notes on my back,

960
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: and so I would I would constantly be reaching to

961
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: touch my back and constantly be checking my back.

962
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 2: But did you see that happen to somebody else.

963
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: Probably in like Parker Lewis Can't Lose or something like

964
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: and a fucking saved by the bell, And so I

965
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: was like constantly but just I thought everyone was making

966
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: fun of me. Of course time, Yeah that was mine

967
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: because you were in junior high elementary school.

968
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: Oh wow, No, I was on math in junior high.

969
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: So no, I want to talk with me. That was

970
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: my tick.

971
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: That was my tick in junior highs taking math. Just

972
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: maybe I'll.

973
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 4: Stop sucking with me.

974
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a different kind of tick.

975
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 3: Uh huh no, No, So this is on Wikipedia, which

976
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,959
Speaker 3: you know how they always have like you, it'll cite

977
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 3: it if you need a reference, Like if you're just

978
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 3: stating something in an article, they're like, you have.

979
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: To preference it. Yeah.

980
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: I think there should be the same citations for grammar,

981
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 3: because listen.

982
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: To how this paragraph sounds.

983
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 4: Love it, let me have it.

984
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: Hair fetishism comes from a natural fascination with the species

985
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 3: on the admiration of the coat as its texture provides

986
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: pleasurable sensations. An infant develops this kind of pleasure to

987
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: feel the hair on his or her early life, manifesting

988
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 3: and aggressive behavior that will drive to pull the hair

989
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 3: of people with which it interacts.

990
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 4: That was the most gorgeous sentence.

991
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm getting that whole thing tattooed on my back in italics.

992
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: You know when you hear something and you're just like,

993
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 3: oh my god, that's it. That is like the wisdom

994
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 3: of the ages on its coat.

995
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: I want you to repeat it, but it's too long,

996
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: but I still love it. It's really long.

997
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: And also essentially it's just like children with hair fetishism,

998
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 3: like the touching hair at an early age, so much.

999
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: More Well, someone put that in like that quote as

1000
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: like one of those motivational photo quotes with like the

1001
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: ocean in the background.

1002
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 4: Yea, and we'll post it.

1003
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: Maybe if there's a lady that has haired down to

1004
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 3: her feet. Oh, if you could super impose Crystal Gaiale

1005
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 3: into this.

1006
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: Okay, she's a country you know her? Oh? No, is

1007
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 2: she the one with the long lady with the longest

1008
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: hair in the world. Yeah, and she was Loretta Lynne's sister.

1009
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: Anyhow interesting.

1010
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 3: I also then in trying to find articles about the

1011
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: shampoo the fetish of wanting to shampoo women's hair, I

1012
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 3: found an article from The Independent from two thousand and

1013
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: seven where they talk about the results of the largest

1014
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: global study of sexual kinks ever undertaken. And it turns

1015
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: out that among sexual preferences for body parts, feet and

1016
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: toes are the most popular at forty seven percent.

1017
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: Shoulders, speed and toes, all feet and tess feet and toes.

1018
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: They also found that when it came to objects associated

1019
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: with the body, shoes, boots and.

1020
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 2: Other footwear scored sixty four percent.

1021
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 3: And just to give you a sense of compared to

1022
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: other things, and this is based on the views of

1023
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 3: men and women okay, one hundred and fifty people with

1024
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: a penchant for hearing aids two who had uh fetish

1025
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 3: for pacemakers? They have Twelve percent of them were turned

1026
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 3: on by underwear, nine percent by coats, seven percent by hair.

1027
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 3: So it's kind of in the low middle. I guess

1028
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 3: it's but it's present, it's there, it represents, but it's

1029
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 3: in no way near thing. Five percent muscles, four percent genitals,

1030
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 3: five percent muscles, five percent muscles and four percent genitals.

1031
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: Do you think that'd be number one?

1032
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: You would think that maybe it's just too obviously chee

1033
00:46:59,200 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: on the nose.

1034
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: Two on the genital. You're it's like, no, I'm into nose.

1035
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 4: How about the nose?

1036
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1037
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: Uh. The lowest scores and so sorry, guys went to

1038
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 3: stethoscope's wristwatches, bracelets, diapers, and catheters.

1039
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: Ooh catheters, ooh catheters. Where did my mine of nacho

1040
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: cheese fries come in?

1041
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: It ranks it's oh my god, eight percent.

1042
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 4: Look at this great.

1043
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: I see nacho cheese fries and I'm just like right,

1044
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: and you're like to girl, girl, girl guy?

1045
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 3: Thence okay, now, then from this article I stumbled onto

1046
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: an article about object sexuality, which is that thing where

1047
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: people fall in love with bridges and marry them.

1048
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: Oh, like the actual object they're into.

1049
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 3: Okay, because I was kind of trying to go like, well,

1050
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: if you're if you don't have anything to tell me

1051
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 3: about washing lady's hair, then maybe this area will. And

1052
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: I just kept clicking on things that were bringing I

1053
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 3: actually got to a hair washing corn site. What I

1054
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: didn't click on it though, because no, because that's forever.

1055
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you what about is the person who married

1056
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: a roller coaster in there?

1057
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: Yes?

1058
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 3: Well, in my short list this is a Woman's Day

1059
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 3: article from twenty ten, where there it's a list of

1060
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 3: the ten known romances between people and things. Oh my god,

1061
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: including the Berlin Wall, a fair ground ride, which I

1062
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 3: think is what you're talking about, a body pillow totally

1063
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: understandab about that, Jesus, a Nintendo video game character, oh,

1064
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: a Volkswagen Beetle, yeah, the World Trade Center, a steam

1065
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 3: locomotive understandable, an iBook, sure, and the most romantic of all,

1066
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 3: a metal processing system.

1067
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: So man, there's like a glitch in the matrix of

1068
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: your brain when those things happen.

1069
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what were we to say? It's right.

1070
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 3: It's everybody gets some weird thing that happens to them

1071
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 3: when they're like five, and they go like, oh, that's

1072
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 3: my thing, and then that's just how it is.

1073
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you get emotionally attached to whatever.

1074
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's some weird memory that's just like ooh Christmas

1075
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: and points set as that turns me on.

1076
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: Okay, so here, let's get back.

1077
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 3: Let's get back. We're not trying to kink shame anybody.

1078
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 3: I'll just kind of throw some things out here.

1079
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: You're actually kink and shaming and showing all the beautiful

1080
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 1: ways that there are to love and fuck.

1081
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 3: Right, because one I, you know, focused on the foot,

1082
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: like the fucking aspect, but then I brought it around

1083
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 3: to love with the metal processing system.

1084
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 4: No shame, get yours.

1085
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: That's the way you have to from the bridge. Don't

1086
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: hurt anyone in the progress or a bridge. Oh yeah,

1087
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 2: there's such bridge. They're sensitive.

1088
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: They have to be there all the time for people.

1089
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: Yeah they seem strong, yeah, but they're really not.

1090
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, deep down.

1091
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 4: Deep down in a windy day.

1092
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: All right.

1093
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: So Luigi Longie spent some time in mental institutions. Uh,

1094
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: and he was eventually deported from Switzerland in nineteen seventy

1095
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 3: seven when he was twenty five, so he moved to Denmark,

1096
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 3: a city called Padborg. Padborg, let's do it, uh, I

1097
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 3: think I just make the worst fucking ikia joke.

1098
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: In the world. Please mark that in all ideas similar

1099
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: to it.

1100
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 4: No, no, leave it because you held back to.

1101
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 2: Show that I have control. Thanks, okay.

1102
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: So he says that this is when he began hiring

1103
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: women who would let him wash their hair. He never

1104
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 3: asked for sex, he never harmed them in any way.

1105
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 3: He just shampooed them compulsively. In fact, he was a virgin.

1106
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: Hair.

1107
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what he needed to get it done. So

1108
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 3: on May thirtieth, nineteen eighty one, when Luigi was twenty

1109
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 3: nine years old, he picked up a German hitchhiker named

1110
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: Haika Freiheit at the Danish German border and he offered

1111
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: her to buy her a ticket to Copenhagen if she

1112
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 3: would come and let him wash her hair in his apartment,

1113
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: and she was like, okay, I can get home.

1114
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: It's almost like if instead he like offering that to

1115
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: me is creepier than he was, like, can you come

1116
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: over so I can murder.

1117
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 2: You yes, because your hair washing part is just like

1118
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 2: what Yeah, that's.

1119
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 3: It's all questions. Yeah, there's there's nothing. You can't trust it.

1120
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 3: It doesn't sound normal.

1121
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound that easy. You know it can't be

1122
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: that easy.

1123
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 3: Right, because normally the way hair washing works is you

1124
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 3: pay someone else to do it for you.

1125
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: Right, and like you don't have to be alone with

1126
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: a strange man.

1127
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 2: And I know this is it, right, that's key.

1128
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 3: I know this is you know, like obviously he had

1129
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: mental problems for an early age, but I wish someone

1130
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 3: had told him you can get a job washing women's

1131
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: hair and get paid for it.

1132
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 2: I did it, did you really?

1133
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 4: For a short time?

1134
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? What are there any tricks we need to know?

1135
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, every person who washes hair has a spot that

1136
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: they just immediately miss, like you just ignore this one,

1137
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: and so mine was like the back right side of

1138
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: the next. So you have to make sure to do that.

1139
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: Don't spray people in the face. I was really bad

1140
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: at it. Oh yeah I was. It's really intimate. It's

1141
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: really really intimate, and like it's and I was like

1142
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: twenty not even twenty years old, So I was just

1143
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: like suddenly like caressing people's heads.

1144
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: With basically kind of with your booths on their face. Yeah,

1145
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 3: I mean is the position, Yes.

1146
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: It's odd.

1147
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 4: It's really creepy and intimate.

1148
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 3: And as you like, that's an interesting perspective because just

1149
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 3: as the receiver, you just I always just close my eyes.

1150
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: I'm like I met the massage parlor.

1151
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: I think that's key. Is that close your eyes? It

1152
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: makes it less creepy.

1153
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't fucking stare at the person that's trying to

1154
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 3: wash your hair. No, that's not the time for icon

1155
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 3: to be polite and close your fucking eyes.

1156
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: Have a personal moment.

1157
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 3: If you can't close your eyes because you're that, you

1158
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 3: know the insanity inside you is such you can't be

1159
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 3: alone in there in the dark. Look away, baby, do

1160
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 3: a half away, do a half half lid, look.

1161
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 2: Away, zone out. Yeah, please if you can.

1162
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 3: She goes there, he washes her hair to the point

1163
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 3: where in this I wish there was so much more

1164
00:52:58,880 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: information about this.

1165
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 2: They both fell asleep.

1166
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 4: So he must have been good.

1167
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 2: He must have been good.

1168
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 3: She could have been on some drugs, felt comfortable. He

1169
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 3: may have been very non threatening and like she just

1170
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 3: was tired.

1171
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 4: Hit check you had good hair wash man.

1172
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 2: It can be so nice.

1173
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1174
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 3: Well, so he wakes up and he wants to wash

1175
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: her hair again. Okay, but he knows now, this is

1176
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 3: the dividing line between when he usually gets women to

1177
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 3: wash let him wash their hair, is that he does

1178
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 3: it and then they leave. So now he wants to

1179
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: do it again. He knows she's going to say no,

1180
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 3: so he decides to tie her up, so he binds

1181
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,439
Speaker 3: her hands and her feet, and then she wakes so

1182
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 3: she's waking up as he takes her back over to

1183
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 3: the chair at the sink.

1184
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: To wash her hair again. Oh god.

1185
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 3: And once she gets in the chair, he gags her

1186
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 3: and then binds her to the chair so that she

1187
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 3: won't move around, and then he proceeds to wash her

1188
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 3: hair for hours and hours until he runs out of shampoo.

1189
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 4: Are you fucking kidding me?

1190
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

1191
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 3: And then and this is the part where and I

1192
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 3: was It was not humor laugh It was like nervous.

1193
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 2: What the fuck am I reading on? Holy god?

1194
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 3: Last? Yeah, yeah, just I've never heard anything like this.

1195
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 3: So then when he runs out of shampoo, he looks

1196
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: around his apartment for other things he can use, so

1197
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: then he starts shampooing her hair with honey. Then he

1198
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 3: shampoos her hair with salad dressing and cottage cheese, so.

1199
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 2: Which is horrifying.

1200
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 3: I am speechless and insane. And then it also reminded

1201
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 3: me in this seventies. I can't remember if we've talked

1202
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: about this or not, my mom used to put a

1203
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 3: conditioning pack on her hair on the weekends.

1204
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 2: That was just mayonnaise.

1205
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 4: That's what I used to do.

1206
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 2: How do you stand, I don't know. Gross, And she

1207
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 2: would have it.

1208
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 3: She'd have like perfectly manicured fingernails with mayonnaise underneath them.

1209
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 2: She'd be like, honey, hand me that thing. And I'd

1210
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: be like, I can't be anywhere near you.

1211
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: I would use like fucking thisstfuls. Yeah, fucking mayonnaise in

1212
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: your hair. You wrap plastic wrap around your head. Yes,

1213
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: let it fucking marinate. Yeah, in your hair is beautiful

1214
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: and shiny and stinks. The stink is so gross, it's

1215
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: so bad. It's fucking raw eggs. Yeah, rotten eggs.

1216
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: It's rotten eggs that you're putting on your head.

1217
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: What I think is interesting about the fact that he

1218
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: did that and kept doing with other stuff is that

1219
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: it's not about washing her hair, and it's like that

1220
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: it makes you understand something more about this fetish, which

1221
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: is it's like it's manipulating the scalp and hair of

1222
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: a woman and the act of doing that rather than

1223
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 1: the washing.

1224
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: Right, it's not about cleanliness, about.

1225
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 4: Cleanliness or the woman enjoying it.

1226
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: No, because no one's going to enjoy cottage cheese fucking

1227
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: rubbed it in their head unless meets me or your mom.

1228
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: And a small handful of other people.

1229
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 3: No, it's about his enjoyment of touching her hair with

1230
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 3: liquid in it.

1231
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and probstilating the scalp and the touching hair.

1232
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So so all the while while she's being shampooed

1233
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 3: of or she's struggling against her restraints. But now he's

1234
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 3: worked himself up into a frenzy because he can shampoo her.

1235
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 3: He like, there's no he's out of control. He can

1236
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 3: do whatever he wants. So then he decides he wants

1237
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 3: to see what she looks like naked, and so he

1238
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 3: rips her clothes off. And so this is when Ike

1239
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 3: begins to stomp her feet on the ground. She's trying

1240
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: to get like a neighbor to notice or know that

1241
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 3: something's wrong, and when she starts to do that, he's

1242
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 3: put and it doesn't say when this happened. He's put

1243
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: a noose around her neck, so he's tightening it trying

1244
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 3: to make her stop stomping her feet, and she ends

1245
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 3: up dying of asphyxiation.

1246
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1247
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: He later tells the police that it was an accident.

1248
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 3: He says, I never intended to kill her, but suddenly

1249
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 3: she went limp and I realized she was dead. But

1250
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 3: in a couple articles too, the way they phrased it

1251
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 3: was almost like she strangled herself by fighting against the ligatures,

1252
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 3: and it's like.

1253
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: It's weren't there exactly? And also if he.

1254
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 3: If there's anything noose like in the story, sorry that

1255
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: there's one. There's one use for.

1256
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: If there's a way to strangle yourself because there's something

1257
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,280
Speaker 1: around your neck, then then he killed her.

1258
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 3: Right you had if you were beginning to strangle yourself

1259
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 3: because you were moving, you'd stop moving. Yeah, yeah, this

1260
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 3: is not on her. Uh Okay, So of course he panics.

1261
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 3: And what does he do, which then also combines some

1262
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 3: other interest that we have.

1263
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: He stuffs her body into a.

1264
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 3: Wall space, puts lime on it, and gets the fuck

1265
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 3: out of dodge. Nine months later, there were workmen who

1266
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:41,959
Speaker 3: are reinsulating the roof.

1267
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: Nine months they didn't mind her. Does lime work that well?

1268
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 2: Well no, I didn't say.

1269
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 3: What like, they found her body, so it's not like

1270
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 3: it completely disintegrated.

1271
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: Okay, but maybe it can smell, That's what I mean.

1272
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 4: It's like no one was like.

1273
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but yeah, it took nine months

1274
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 3: and then they fucking look down and there's a body

1275
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 3: in a wall, which is horrifying but also one of

1276
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 3: the stories that we were asking people to send us

1277
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 3: things in walls. So anyway, Luigi Longi pled not guilty,

1278
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 3: but on March eleventh, nineteen eighty three, he was found

1279
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 3: to be criminally insane and confined to a mental institution

1280
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: for an indefinite amount of time.

1281
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: I was thinking this was like the forties, no shit,

1282
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 2: eighty three.

1283
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: So because the true crime Crime cards were written in

1284
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two, on the card it says where he

1285
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 3: remains until this day. We don't know if that's true,

1286
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 3: but if he is still all like today, he'd be

1287
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 3: sixty six. Yeah, And that's the short and singular story

1288
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: of Luis G.

1289
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 2: Longi. Wow.

1290
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's go find him.

1291
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1292
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 4: Oh that's creepy.

1293
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: That's so creepy. Yeah, guys, send us here. Tell us

1294
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: your fetishes, you know, things like no imagining the inbox now.

1295
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 4: I know, send Steven your fish.

1296
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 3: Well we have all these new listeners. The people have

1297
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 3: no interest in true crime whatsoever.

1298
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 4: They just want us.

1299
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: They're fetish. Is us reading their fetish? Yeah that's right,

1300
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 2: Podcast against our Will?

1301
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: Uh huh, but that was fucked up.

1302
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 4: Yeah that was a quick episode.

1303
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, we're back, Karen. Any updates, No updates for

1304
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 1: this story. All right. Well then let's get into good

1305
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: things of the week.

1306
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 4: What's your thing that makes you happy?

1307
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: The same? You're positive?

1308
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, my thing is another gift from a person

1309
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 3: the VIP line, the peeline.

1310
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: It's called it's a book called.

1311
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 3: The Man from the Train by uh, a man who's

1312
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 3: normally a baseball writer named Bill James, but he also

1313
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 3: wrote the book Popular Crime.

1314
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 2: Which got a lot of us have read. Oh, I

1315
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 2: have to read it.

1316
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 3: So he's it's very cool because he's approaching it's basically,

1317
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 3: there's this you have to read it, so I don't

1318
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 3: want to like overly spoil.

1319
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: But he's linking the veliska.

1320
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 3: Axe murders and a bunch of other really grizzly murders.

1321
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: It's one guy that used to ride the train and

1322
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 3: it's just incredible and he uses that kind of like

1323
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: here's all the things this guy did, and he did

1324
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 3: it every single time. And they went through and pulled

1325
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 3: all the stories from back then of was somebody killed

1326
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 3: by an axe in a small town near a railroad,

1327
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 3: and it's incredible. They did so much research. It's so

1328
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 3: so good. And also the way he writes, like sometimes

1329
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 3: I feel like when I read true crime books, it's

1330
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 3: very like it gets very prosy and like kind of

1331
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 3: like the very overly descriptive.

1332
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: This guy it's like he's just talking to her. It

1333
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 2: was like we'll talk about that.

1334
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: Like like here's the research, yes, and like and that

1335
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: you might that might remind you of this, but it

1336
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 3: comes back later, so we'll talk about that.

1337
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 2: Like it's really cool narrative.

1338
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 3: And then it's just really clear and it's one of

1339
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 3: those really satisfying like if you know about this crime

1340
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 3: and this crime and this crime, he's like it's all

1341
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 3: one guy.

1342
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, Okay, I really want to read it.

1343
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm halfway done, so you'll have it in you know,

1344
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 3: two weeks, okay, my seven months?

1345
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 4: Great?

1346
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: Or I think yeah, or I'll buy it. Oh, I

1347
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: just bought a stranger beside me. Can I just say cats?

1348
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: I think that's making me happy as cats, my cats

1349
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: and watching them. Sure, that's what's making me happy right now.

1350
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: It's just nice to fucking sit and chill at them.

1351
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: And we're gone so much choring that, like, when I

1352
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: get to come home and see them, it just makes

1353
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: me really happy. Great, yeah, okay, we're back.

1354
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 3: So this episode is we all know, was originally entitled

1355
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 3: Courage Shoulders.

1356
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: But if we were naming it today, maybe we would

1357
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: call it.

1358
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 2: Well, it should be not with my Stephen, definitely not

1359
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: in my backyard.

1360
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: Not with my Stevens.

1361
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 2: Then all of the stars guards. Yes, that's that one

1362
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: is pretty great. Always Yeah, Shoulders, Speed and Toes.

1363
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 3: Shoulders, Feet and Toes, which is George's remix of the

1364
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 3: classic children's hit and of course bridges are sensitive.

1365
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: All right, Well, thanks for listening to everyone here in

1366
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Let's go back to twenty eighteen to

1367
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: say goodbye.

1368
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for listening to you guys.

1369
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: Thanks guys for listening all right, stay sex and don't

1370
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: get murdered.

1371
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: Bye, Alice, my cookie.

1372
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: No