Speaker 1: My name is Trim and this is Saigon, the story
Speaker 1: of my family and of the country that shaped us.
Speaker 2: The United States will not stand by and allow any.
Speaker 3: Power, however, break take over another time.
Speaker 4: Orange has brought only confusion and.
Speaker 5: Bewill money'll break it out.
Speaker 4: Rand a bad very baby sounded. There can be no
Speaker 4: peace without justice, and that can be no justice without peace.
Speaker 6: Chapter six.
Speaker 4: Probably be a whole out of commencing descent over target.
Speaker 1: In two minutes in nineteen sixty four, two American Navy
Speaker 1: ships in the Gulf of Tonkin were apparently attacked by
Speaker 1: Communist missiles. Whether they actually were or not has been
Speaker 1: debated ever since.
Speaker 4: Calling me down to five thousand feet.
Speaker 1: But it was all that President Johnson needed to declare
Speaker 1: open war on North Vietnam.
Speaker 4: Wait for God.
Speaker 6: Very Christmas handling Operation Rolling Thunder.
Speaker 1: The relentless bombing of the North would continue for years. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: life carried on in Saigon much as before. The true
Speaker 1: horrors of war had yet to reach the southern capital.
Speaker 3: Excuse me, yes, I'm looking for Colonel Michael Tench Joseph Sherman.
Speaker 3: I have an appointment.
Speaker 4: Ah, it's not colonel anymore.
Speaker 3: Oh, General, No, we don't.
Speaker 5: Have ranks in CIA.
Speaker 4: In fact, we don't even acknowledge me our CIA.
Speaker 5: Oh but I'm told you.
Speaker 4: To go way back.
Speaker 3: We do.
Speaker 4: We do through there, mister Sherman. He's expecting you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Mike, Joseph, come in, come in. Hey, so
Speaker 3: good to see you again.
Speaker 1: Michael tench had been one of the military advisors America
Speaker 1: had sent to Vietnam in nineteen forty five. He and
Speaker 1: Joseph had spent three months together training Ho Chiman's soldiers
Speaker 1: to fight the Japanese.
Speaker 4: What have you been up to.
Speaker 2: You're still working for Associated Press.
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm with the Joint Public Affairs Office now.
Speaker 3: They needed a press secretary and I needed to change
Speaker 3: the pace. So here we are.
Speaker 2: Hope they're taking good care of you.
Speaker 3: I can't complain. I have a colonial residence and a housekeeper,
Speaker 3: you know, per diems, the whole deal yourself. When I
Speaker 3: heard you were back in Saigon, I thought, well, he's
Speaker 3: keeping a low profile.
Speaker 2: I have to I'm afraid that's the nature of my.
Speaker 3: New job CIA Chief of Stations. Oh so yeah, congratulations.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well it might become a poison chalice, but we'll
Speaker 7: see how we go.
Speaker 2: Drink loved one. It's no surprise someone like you guessed
Speaker 2: the truth, but I'd rather not advertise it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I understand if asked. You're an embassy attache.
Speaker 2: Perfect, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: How's a family your boy, Gary, wasn't it?
Speaker 3: Yes? Gary, he's here, in fact, on his third tour
Speaker 3: of duty with the eleventh Infantry Brigade.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the wife's okay, yeah, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 7: Here you go, oh good health cheers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Then Mike, of course there's my daughter, the one I
Speaker 3: wrote to.
Speaker 2: You about trying to land too yet.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I'm sorry if it sounded pushy, you know,
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: Just all no, no.
Speaker 7: If old friends can't ask each other for help, the
Speaker 7: world's become a very sad place.
Speaker 2: I get the frustration.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 2: When did Gary see her?
Speaker 3: Nineteen sixty three? I'm patrolling the Mekong Delta.
Speaker 7: And the last time you saw was nineteen fifty six.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 7: Then, your son saw fleeting Lee in sixty three, and
Speaker 7: now five years later, you've still got no idea where
Speaker 7: she is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not a clue, which is why I wondered if
Speaker 3: the CIA knew anything.
Speaker 7: Okay, what we do know is She's one of the
Speaker 7: Viet Cong's most effective fighters, responsible for planning dozens of attacks,
Speaker 7: and she's good and highly regarded. We've never been able
Speaker 7: to infiltrate any of her teams. They come out of
Speaker 7: nowhere and then vanish before we have time to respond.
Speaker 7: That's what we know. And now for the last few months,
Speaker 7: nothing feels like someone heard that we really wanted to
Speaker 7: find her and told.
Speaker 2: Her to keep her head down.
Speaker 3: You've got a move.
Speaker 7: Not in the office here, there's been no breach of
Speaker 7: operational security, but we've got assets all over the place
Speaker 7: in Saigon, and well, frankly, i'd be surprised if at
Speaker 7: least one or two of them aren't double agents for
Speaker 7: the viet Cong. We arrest all the ones we find,
Speaker 7: but you arrest one and two more take their place. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 7: we both want to find her, Joseph, so.
Speaker 2: I'll let you know if we get a tip.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's.
Speaker 2: The Ted holiday next week.
Speaker 3: I know, I know goes home right.
Speaker 7: Exactly, so nothing will happen till after that at the earliest.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, thanks, Mike, I appreciate the favor.
Speaker 2: No problem.
Speaker 7: Actually know, as it happens, I have a favor to
Speaker 7: ask in return.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let's.
Speaker 2: Go for a drive. I'll tell you on the way.
Speaker 2: There you go. Where are we going?
Speaker 7: Secret detention facility inside the US military prison Okay, not
Speaker 7: far right, actually away from prying years. There is something
Speaker 7: else you should know about your daughter. What she got married.
Speaker 7: It's another Viet Con fighter. Oh, they had a daughter
Speaker 7: in fifty eight. She'd be about nine or ten now.
Speaker 2: Oh h he.
Speaker 7: Got killed on the Cambodian border a few years back.
Speaker 7: The daughter is still alive though somewhere.
Speaker 3: Wow, what what's her name?
Speaker 2: We don't know, just between us.
Speaker 8: Right, yeah, yeah, of course, General.
Speaker 2: Id Michael Tench.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, mister Tan.
Speaker 7: There's one prisoner here who hasn't said a word since
Speaker 7: he was captured a couple of years back.
Speaker 2: But he was high up.
Speaker 7: In the pecking order with Ho Chi Minh, so he
Speaker 7: knows a lot about the whole via cong structure and strategy.
Speaker 2: You just got to get him to tell us.
Speaker 7: Physical pain was never going to make him talk, though,
Speaker 7: so we started trying psychological pressure.
Speaker 2: He kept in a white.
Speaker 7: Room alone, isolated the continual light.
Speaker 2: It's here this way.
Speaker 7: I only set eyes on him A couple of weeks
Speaker 7: ago when I first started this job, and when I
Speaker 7: looked at it, I was sure I'd seen him somewhere.
Speaker 2: Sarah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7: And then I remembered when we were in the jungle
Speaker 7: together training Ho Chi Min's soldiers. A patrol came back
Speaker 7: on the last day, and you knew the leader. It'd
Speaker 7: been someone you'd known in Saigon years earlier. No, and
Speaker 7: weird detail. He doesn't have any balls cut them off
Speaker 7: years ago, apparently, so nothing could distract him from the cause.
Speaker 3: Transvend Kim, that's him.
Speaker 7: I think it's him, and if it is, we have
Speaker 7: to see if.
Speaker 2: He'll talk to you.
Speaker 7: Corporal Sir, can you let mister Sherman in?
Speaker 4: Yes, Sir, mister Sherman, when I open the door, just
Speaker 4: take one step forward and stay behind the red line
Speaker 4: at all times.
Speaker 9: Ready.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Joseph stepped inside. The thin red line was at
Speaker 1: his feet, but the rest of the walls, ceiling, floor
Speaker 1: were all bright white, and sitting motionless on the ground
Speaker 1: was a thin figure with a long, wispy beard.
Speaker 3: Kim, Kim, it's me Joseph, your old friend.
Speaker 1: It had been twelve long years since Land's funeral procession,
Speaker 1: but there was no mistaking the piercing eyes and familiar
Speaker 1: face in front of him.
Speaker 3: How are you, my friend? The last time we met,
Speaker 3: we were talking about betrayal and loyalty, and given your
Speaker 3: contempt for those who betray their friends and comrades, well,
Speaker 3: I'm guessing I've got no chance of getting you to
Speaker 3: betray yours. But yeah, you know, Kimble, one thing you
Speaker 3: didn't give me a chance to say. Back then. I
Speaker 3: did talk to Paul about your sister land and me,
Speaker 3: and he was glad that I made her happy because
Speaker 3: he knew he hadn't and couldn't. So what you saw
Speaker 3: is betrayal. He respected his honesty. Yeah, being open about
Speaker 3: our passions and not denying them is not betrayal, Kim. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's not a betrayal. Can we talk about your passions, Kim?
Speaker 3: My passion.
Speaker 4: Is to see Vietnam free a fall foreign occupation.
Speaker 3: Joseph, Yes, yes, But all Ho Chi Minh has to
Speaker 3: do is agree to elections a democratic government, and then
Speaker 3: we'd go.
Speaker 4: He would be gone one day anyway, without us having
Speaker 4: to agree to anything.
Speaker 3: Are you sure that you speak for Ho Chi Minh
Speaker 3: on this? Could we ask him together?
Speaker 8: All right?
Speaker 3: Okay? Before I go, though, Kim, do you know where
Speaker 3: I could find two yet? Is there anyone I could ask?
Speaker 3: Or somewhere I could go? Okay, okay, something Kim, please
Speaker 3: a hint, a clue please? She's my daughter, my daughter
Speaker 3: two yet? Please? Just somewhere I can go something, Just
Speaker 3: someone I can talk Kim, A clue, a hint.
Speaker 6: Please, Kim said nothing more.
Speaker 1: Michael t Op to Joseph ar outside his villa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks, Mike. Sorry, I couldn't get any more for you,
Speaker 3: so worth a try.
Speaker 2: Thanks, buddy, look after yourself.
Speaker 1: Joseph hesitated at his front door. He could have an
Speaker 1: early night alone, or the Continental Hotel bar was only
Speaker 1: a block away.
Speaker 2: Another?
Speaker 3: Yeah, why not? Hey, buddy, got a life?
Speaker 8: Thanks jam join us if you like?
Speaker 3: No, no thanks?
Speaker 4: Would you like any foods?
Speaker 5: Trim Kraka, rice ball?
Speaker 9: What?
Speaker 3: No? No thanks? Sir?
Speaker 5: The gentleman at that table over there, I believe he
Speaker 5: has a message for you. What you'll go, missus?
Speaker 9: Salmon?
Speaker 3: I'm sorry?
Speaker 4: You want a girl?
Speaker 3: Yes? No, no, no, I don't want a girl.
Speaker 4: No a special girl. You're special girl. You've been looking
Speaker 4: for her?
Speaker 3: How do you have you been tailing me?
Speaker 4: Doesn't matter you want girl? You mean too yet name?
Speaker 4: Whatever you tell no one? I give you a place
Speaker 4: you tell no one, yes, especially not c I a
Speaker 4: man you with today?
Speaker 3: No no one?
Speaker 2: Where Where is she? You read?
Speaker 3: Go here? That's all I have.
Speaker 4: I go Okay.
Speaker 1: Joseph looked down at the torn slip of paper. It
Speaker 1: was a street address.
Speaker 6: In a city called way Quay, was in the.
Speaker 1: Center of Vietnam, one thousand kilometers north of Saigon. Joseph
Speaker 1: had wondered if he could trust this cloak and dagger stuff,
Speaker 1: or whether he should tell Mike Tench, But he couldn't
Speaker 1: entirely trust what the CIA might do if they found
Speaker 1: two yet either. So he had gone with his instincts
Speaker 1: and flown up on his own. The well dressed Vietnamese
Speaker 1: man beside him picked up on his tension.
Speaker 10: This is your first time in huey, sir, Oh, yes, military?
Speaker 8: No, No, No civilian.
Speaker 10: He's rare to see an American civilian.
Speaker 3: This far north. Well, uh, I'm a journalist, ah doing
Speaker 3: a story on how things are going outside Saigon.
Speaker 10: Well you will fire. Things are going very well in
Speaker 10: Hue Everything is opened, hotels, restaurant shops. It is a
Speaker 10: good place for business. And I do business everywhere. War
Speaker 10: or no war, everyone is still in your trade.
Speaker 3: But whoay is home?
Speaker 8: Where is home?
Speaker 10: I'm coming home for that, you know that? Is it
Speaker 10: like you America? And it's like Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3: Yes, I know it will be a good week.
Speaker 10: To visit where everyone is on holiday?
Speaker 3: Where are you staying? I'm not sure yet. I'm hoping
Speaker 3: to catch up with a friend who I think is
Speaker 3: there here this place.
Speaker 1: Joseph handed over the address he'd been given for two yet,
Speaker 1: a street in the family law quarter of Way.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 10: I wouldn't stay in this area, sir, A bad part
Speaker 10: of the town, full of thieves and prostitute. Be very
Speaker 10: careful here, miss.
Speaker 1: Despite the warning, Joseph took a cab straight to the
Speaker 1: address he'd been given, a block of rum down apartments
Speaker 1: with the bar on the kromme how.
Speaker 9: One tonight one?
Speaker 11: Well, hello, mister American dream whiskey.
Speaker 3: Thanks midcom or Jake Daniel me Cock, Thanks and excuse me.
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a woman.
Speaker 6: What sort of woman?
Speaker 3: Her name's Tran t Lant. I was told I might
Speaker 3: find her here. Take a shit, I'll bring your drink
Speaker 3: over and ask a row.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Joseph sat at a table and waited a
Speaker 1: French movie played on a TV in the corner.
Speaker 3: Want me called, Yeah, thank you to ya?
Speaker 6: What are you doing here, Joseph?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, at last. You don't know how hard
Speaker 3: I tried to find you.
Speaker 6: What do you want you?
Speaker 3: I don't know it. It's been twelve years. Oh it's okay.
Speaker 3: No one knows I'm here. I don't even know who
Speaker 3: gave me the address. Someone connected with the Viet Cong.
Speaker 3: I suppose are are you still with the Viet Cong?
Speaker 6: Let's go.
Speaker 3: Come on, yeah, okay.
Speaker 11: Come in. You can't stay long. If anyone's eesy here,
Speaker 11: I'll be accused of being an American spy.
Speaker 3: If you're in danger, I can help.
Speaker 11: We're both in danger, Joseph. In fact, you're in more
Speaker 11: danger than me, especially if you're really.
Speaker 3: On your line I am.
Speaker 11: Then get back to the airport and get out of here.
Speaker 11: An unarmed American in this part of town won't survive
Speaker 11: the night.
Speaker 9: Yet.
Speaker 3: We're not in Hanoi. This is a way. The Americans
Speaker 3: are in charge here and I can take you right now.
Speaker 3: We can go, Joseph.
Speaker 11: Look, I shouldn't be saying this, but if you're really
Speaker 11: here on your own. Something's going to happen tonight. They've
Speaker 11: been waiting for the tut holiday when everyone's off guard.
Speaker 11: If you don't leave now, what's going to happen? I
Speaker 11: can't say anymore.
Speaker 1: What surprised Joseph most was the concern in her voice,
Speaker 1: the concern for him. After all her contempt and vitriol,
Speaker 1: they were still family.
Speaker 3: Where's your daughter?
Speaker 11: How do you know about her?
Speaker 3: There's a whole file on you too. Yet you wanted
Speaker 3: by the Americans, the CIA. They know so much what
Speaker 3: it started.
Speaker 11: Come on, we've got to get you out down here quick.
Speaker 6: Stay close to the wall.
Speaker 9: Come on.
Speaker 6: Down that way.
Speaker 11: The river's at the end of the alley. There's a sampan,
Speaker 11: a black and yellow one. Hide there, now go go.
Speaker 8: What about you.
Speaker 6: I've got a.
Speaker 10: Job to do.
Speaker 11: I'm still a soldier. You were right now?
Speaker 8: Go Oh.
Speaker 9: Oh, Joseph, Juliet, Juliet jeh yeh.
Speaker 6: Lad, dear, Shall we are your sapa?
Speaker 3: Are you sure?
Speaker 6: I am?
Speaker 8: If you are.
Speaker 6: Hold me again to.
Speaker 9: H are you going to die? Where are you going
Speaker 9: to die?
Speaker 3: Where am I?
Speaker 9: You've been asleep a long time?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 9: Yeah, my name's Tree? Does it hurt? Very bad? Mamma said.
Speaker 9: The bullet went right through Tren. Yes, are you my
Speaker 9: mama's father?
Speaker 3: Is your mother's name too yet?
Speaker 9: Yes?
Speaker 3: Then yes, I'm your mamma's father.
Speaker 9: So you're my grandfather.
Speaker 3: I am? I am and well it's good to meet you, Trin.
Speaker 9: Good to meet you grandfather.
Speaker 6: Yes, that's me.
Speaker 1: I was ten and it was the first time I
Speaker 1: met my grandfather.
Speaker 3: Has she told you much about me?
Speaker 9: Not so much. She said, you were in America.
Speaker 3: I came back. Why to find your mother? Then? See you?
Speaker 3: Do you go to school?
Speaker 9: Yes?
Speaker 3: Do you like it?
Speaker 9: Well, I'm very good at it. Everyone says that I'm.
Speaker 3: Very clever and shy obviously.
Speaker 9: No, I'm not shy. Just don't laugh if it hurts.
Speaker 3: Yes, wise advice. Thank you, Trin.
Speaker 9: It's okay. He's awake. Mamma.
Speaker 11: I've brought you some rice balls.
Speaker 3: Thank you, and we've been having a lovely chat.
Speaker 11: Well, that's good you've met each other. We have to
Speaker 11: go what we have to leave you here. The night
Speaker 11: didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Me and Tren
Speaker 11: have to go north. We'll be fine, but we have
Speaker 11: to leave you here. Your marines will come in two
Speaker 11: three hours. No, no, ye, don't argue, Joseph. That's what's happening.
Speaker 3: Two minutes. Hear me out. I can take Tren away
Speaker 3: from this nightmare, and you all of us saw out
Speaker 3: of danger. We can wait for the Marines. I have
Speaker 3: good contacts, I'm known. I can make it happen.
Speaker 11: Joseph. Nothing has changed. We will fight until Vietnam is free.
Speaker 11: I'd rather cut my throat then go to America. I
Speaker 11: don't know what part of this you cannot understand.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, but let me at least in my wallet.
Speaker 3: Can you? Can you get out the photo? Where in
Speaker 3: the back? Yeah? Right here? Can Twin keep this?
Speaker 9: Is that you in the middle?
Speaker 3: Uh huh, well done. And on the left that's your
Speaker 3: grandmother when we were very young at a tennis match.
Speaker 9: And that's uncle Kim. Yes, he was nice.
Speaker 3: We talked a few days ago.
Speaker 11: What you and Kim?
Speaker 3: Yes? Well we thought he No, he's alive.
Speaker 6: Oh God, thank you.
Speaker 3: We didn't know.
Speaker 9: Is he okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said nothing. He's like you too, yet strong.
Speaker 3: I admire that is that them?
Speaker 11: Yes, they're coming, Trin. We've got to go now. Goodbye
Speaker 11: to Yet, goodbye, Joseph.
Speaker 3: I'll see you trin keep that photo safe.
Speaker 9: Goodbye grandfather.
Speaker 1: Three days later we were in Hanoi. My mother never
Speaker 1: mentioned Joseph again, but she did let me keep the
Speaker 1: photo for years.
Speaker 6: I looked at it every night. I still have it.
Speaker 4: Okay, Hi, look you and Stephan Jackie Sampans.
Speaker 5: See an idiot?
Speaker 8: Hey, guys, in here? Where'd that come from?
Speaker 9: In here? Now?
Speaker 3: Hound's above your head? Oh hi, sergeant, who the hell
Speaker 3: are you?
Speaker 1: Joseph was taken back to Saigon in a medical chopper.
Speaker 1: Then he was transferred straight to an army hospital, where
Speaker 1: his first visitor was CIA boss Mike tent.
Speaker 2: Well, all right, you a side for so I?
Speaker 9: How do he? Mike?
Speaker 2: What were you doing in Whay?
Speaker 9: Joseph?
Speaker 3: Looking for my daughter.
Speaker 2: Figured as much. What made you think? Why did someone
Speaker 2: tell you something?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: No, I just remembered back in the thirties, or family
Speaker 3: had a house up there and they used to all
Speaker 3: get together for the holidays. Yes, so yeah, I thought
Speaker 3: that maybe some of them still might.
Speaker 9: And do they.
Speaker 2: Did you find her?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: No, no, nothing, Drew Blank got shot? Not the best holiday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet.
Speaker 7: You got treatment, though your wound was already dressed when
Speaker 7: they found you. How'd that happen?
Speaker 3: Money speaks all languages, Mike. I had to throw in
Speaker 3: my role X too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, thank god you're alive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know the time, by ann and I'm alive.
Speaker 2: Damn looky.
Speaker 1: The tet offensive brought home to the American public the
Speaker 1: cost of the war in lives, and public opinion turned
Speaker 1: against US involvement in Vietnam. President Lyndon Johnson pulled back
Speaker 1: on the bombing raids over Hanoi. They never stopped entirely,
Speaker 1: but with far fewer raids, everyone ventured back into the streets.
Speaker 1: Shops and parks reopened. It was summertime. There was talk
Speaker 1: of a possible truce, and on one Saturday morning, Mama
Speaker 1: took me out to the Dong Shwuan clothes market to
Speaker 1: buy me a new pair of shoes. At long last,
Speaker 1: life was starting to feel normal again.
Speaker 6: But then one B fifty two dropped forty seven.
Speaker 1: Bombs right over the marketplace. I was dug out four
Speaker 1: hours later and woke up the next day in the hospital.
Speaker 1: That's when they told me my mama was dead.
Speaker 10: Sigone is a production of Thoroughbred Studios, gold Hog Productions
Speaker 10: and iHeart podcasts starring Kelly, Marie Trann and Rob Benedict.
Speaker 10: Based on the best selling novel Cygone by Anthony Gray.
Speaker 10: It is created for audio by Greg Hadrick and Jeremy Fox,
Speaker 10: written by Greg Hadrick and directed by John Scott Dryden.
Speaker 3: Original music is by Sasha Putnam, with additional performances by
Speaker 3: Non mgnir and Letty big Cheer.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound design is by Elouise Whitmore.
Speaker 2: The series producer is Emma Hern.
Speaker 10: The producer in Vietnam is fatmun Nihen.
Speaker 3: The executive producers are Jeremy Fox, Greg Hadrick, John Scott Dryden,
Speaker 3: Howard Stringer and Jason English.