1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: On the night of December thirtieth, nineteen seventy four, two 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: armed men entered a liquor store on the outskirts of 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. They ordered one clerk to empty the cash 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: register and fatally shot the other one in the head. 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: As the surviving clerk nervously fumbled the cash, one of 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: the assailants shot eighteen year old Belinda Brown in the 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: head as well, but miraculously the girl survived, and she 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: described her shooters as black men over six feet tall 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: and two hundred pounds. No identifications were made until five 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: weeks later, when two young men, Glenn Simmons and Don Roberts, 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: took part in a lineup. Even though both young men 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: fell well shy of the described height and weight, Belinda 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Brown's ID was enough to convince a jury, and in 14 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five murder in Oklahoma carried an automatic sentence 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: of death. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: wrongful Conviction, where we're covering a robbery homicide out of Edmond, 17 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: Oklahoma that took place while our guest of honor, Glenn Simmons, 18 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: lived hundreds of miles away, just outside of New Orleans. 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: But before we try to make sense of all that. 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: I'd like to introduce his attorney, Joe Norwood. Joe, welcome 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: to the show. Thank you, and thank you for helping 22 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: win Glenn's release after more than forty eight years, one 23 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: of the longest terms of any previous guests or anybody 24 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: in the long and terrible history of bromful convictions in 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: this country. I think Tyrone Clark is the only other 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: innocent person that we know of who has served as 27 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: longer longer, and I hope no one else ever comes close. 28 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: So Glenn Simmons, welcome, Thank you. Now, this happened on 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: the outskirts of Oklahoma City, in the town called edmund 30 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: same as Julius Jones in nineteen ninety nine, by the way, 31 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: and we'll have his story lengked in the episode description 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: as we continue to seek justice. 33 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: There everyone in Oklahoma's whare of that case. 34 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: But the crime in Glenn's story took place twenty five 35 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: years earlier, way back in nineteen seventy four. 36 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: When Glenn's case happened, Edmunds was a sundown community sundown, 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: meaning if you're black, you better get out before sundown 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: and most preferably not even show up there. It has 39 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: changed dramatically since then into fourth largest, one of the 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 2: wealthiest cities in Oklahoma now. 41 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: But back in seventy four when the crime in question happened, 42 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: Glenn hadn't even arrived in this sundown town yet. He 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: was still living and was actually in Harvey, Louisiana, where 44 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: he had been born back in nineteen fifty three. 45 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 3: One year before Brown Versus Education desegregation of the schools. However, 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 3: schools wasn't really desegregated into nineteen sixty eight. In the 47 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: town where I grew up at, you know, Harvard, Luis 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: down It's on the west bank of the Mississippi River, 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 3: New Orleans. Grew up in a very large family, nine 50 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: lords and four girls, went to all black school in 51 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 3: the neighborhood. Pretty good childhood, not a whole bunch of 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: drama now. 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: The crime in question occurred during that sleepy week between 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: Christmas and New Year's in nineteen seventy four. Glenn had 55 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: just turned twenty one years old, and his aunt, Dorothy, 56 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: who lived Edmond, Oklahoma, was back in Harvey for the holidays. 57 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: Anti Dart did she would come for Christmas In New 58 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 3: Year's we had this tradition what we called the Turkey Bowl, 59 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: and every New Year's Eve we would go to this 60 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 3: high school and neighborhood guys would gather around and pick 61 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: teams to play ball. And we did it that year 62 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 3: and thought I was a little sharp, little pool player 63 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 3: at the time, so I hung out in the pool 64 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: hall a lot, and we had some pool tournaments that 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 3: weekend also. And this one particular time Anti Dart did 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: she came, I decided to go back with her too, Oklahoma, 67 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: which was in January nineteen seventy five. I wasn't intending 68 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 3: to stay. I was just coming to visit. Well. I 69 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: found me a job within a few days, and I 70 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: liked the job, so I decided to steal a little 71 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: while longer. 72 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: However, before Glenn even arrived in Edmond, Oklahoma, a robbery 73 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: and murder had occurred at a liquor store. On December thirtieth, 74 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. 75 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: Around nine thirty pm. Two perpetrators come into the Edmund 76 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: liquor store and hold it up demand the cash One 77 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: of the cashiers hands it over and they shoot the 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 2: other one in the head, who falls dead. As the 79 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: cashier that was still alive was handing over the cash 80 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: and eighteen year old young lady walks in and as 81 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: soon as she walks past the two perpetrators, they shoot 82 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: her in the back of the head. They grab the 83 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: cash and run off. 84 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: The eighteen year old customer, Belinda Brown, ended up surviving, 85 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: while thirty year old Carolyn Sue Rogers died at the scene. 86 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: The surviving cashier was named Norma Hankins. 87 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 2: Her initial statement to the police was, I was busy 88 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: looking at that gun. I don't know that I'll be 89 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: able to give a good accurate description. That is what 90 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: she testified to at the preliminary hearing, and that's what 91 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: she testified to at the jury trial. 92 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: As the police canvassed the area, a group of boys 93 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: allegedly saw the getaway, but didn't have anything useful for 94 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: the police until many weeks later. Meanwhile, the eighteen year 95 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,119 Speaker 1: old customer, Belinda Brown, who had been shot in the head, 96 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: was in critical condition. 97 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: She was in the hospital for about a week. She 98 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 2: had surgery, the bullet was removed and she been it 99 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: up surviving. Not but a day or two after she 100 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: got out of the hospital, she was interviewed by the 101 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: police and from the police report quote unquote, if she 102 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: thought about it anymore, it would get all jumbled up 103 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: in her mind. 104 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: From what we understand, she wanted to give them any 105 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: information she had as soon as possible. She described the 106 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: assailants as two black men, a little over six feet 107 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: tall and two hundred pounds, and she was shown several 108 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: lineups and initially only made partial identifications, like maybe the 109 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: eyes of someone she viewed were similar to the assailants, 110 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: but no concrete ideas. At this point, the investigation began 111 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: to struggle. 112 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 3: When I got to Oklahoma, this Ed Meligosto murder had 113 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: been going unsolved, and every day there was an article 114 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: about the inadequacies of the police department, how they couldn't 115 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 3: sell of the crime, and it was coming to a date, 116 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: and it was on the whole lot of pressure to 117 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: solve those crimes. And I just helped to walk into it, 118 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 3: you know, right into it. 119 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: During what was supposed to be just an extended visit 120 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: with his aunt, Glynn attended a small get together at 121 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: a relative's home on the night of February third into 122 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: the fourth, when another robbery homicide occurred in Oklahoma City, 123 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: and by the fifth police had two suspects in custody 124 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: Leonard and Delbert Patterson, who had been at the same 125 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: party as Glenn. 126 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: They was at the port that night and they left 127 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: him with did something. They come back half an hour 128 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: later kept all parted. So the next day when they 129 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 3: get arrested on the murder, the accent was they gave 130 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 3: it out abi that they was at the port and 131 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: who all was at the party, and they started arresting 132 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: people as material witnesses and stuff like that. 133 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: In order to hold some of these material witnesses, the police, 134 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: with no probable cause to do so, charged some of 135 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: the people from the party as suspects in random open cases. 136 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 3: They arrested me on the Bogies robbery case, which was 137 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 3: dismissed right there on. The woman who got robbed came 138 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: to the station and said, no, I ain't never seen 139 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 3: that guy before. 140 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something They threw on him to make sure 141 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: they could hold him. 142 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: At some point during this morass where the police had 143 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: all these young folks from the party still in custody, 144 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: Leonard and Delbert Patterson, both of them were about six 145 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: to two and a little over two hundred pounds. They 146 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: eventually confessed to the February robbery homicide in Oklahoma City, 147 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: but the Edmund liquor store robbery homicide in December remained 148 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: an open case. 149 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: I take this out if you look at the police report. 150 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 3: On February the fifth, February to six officers show over 151 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: at the Oklahoma Police Department. Contacted Officer Garrett at the 152 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: Edmund Police Department and he told him, he said, we 153 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 3: got two suspects in custody fit the description of the 154 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: Edmund liquor store murder, and you need to come down 155 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: and conduct an ID right now. I don't see who 156 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: these suspects are, but they say they fitted the description 157 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: to composite that Belinda Brown gave him, saying they were 158 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: six feet two hundred some pound right, totally different from 159 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: my description. I was like one hundred and fifty pounds 160 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 3: five eight. But I was actually to participate in the lineup. 161 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 3: I didn't know I had the right to refuse or 162 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 3: a right to a lawyer. Went in, got in the 163 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 3: lineup and was told that I was picked out the lineup, 164 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: and so Linda Brown, she was so sure she called 165 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 3: detect the house later on that night and told him say, 166 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: to more I think about it, the more positive I 167 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: am that it was number six. They asked us, way 168 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: you can you come up tomorrow and make another idea. 169 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: She came back the next day to say I picked 170 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: the sam to I picked the day before. 171 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: Belinda Brown was very confident in her choice of position 172 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: six in the first lineup, but only became more confident 173 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: in her second choice the following day. And on February eighth, 174 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, both Glenn Simmons and another young man 175 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: from the party, Don Roberts, were charged with capital murder. 176 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: With no bail available, they awaited trial from jail and 177 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: Glenn hired private counsel. 178 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 3: He was a friend of my aunt's, Henry Floyd. I 179 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 3: think I gave him like twenty two hundred dollars, which 180 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: was a lot of money at that time. He didn't 181 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: do nothing, found no pre trial motions or nothing in. 182 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: The case, and perhaps he felt confident considering the glaring 183 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: difference between Glenn and Don smaller statures and the over 184 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: six feet tall, two hundred pounds assailants, a discrepancy that 185 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: seemed to strike a chord with the Linda Brown at 186 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: the preliminary hearing. 187 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 3: When she comes to preliminary three or four weeks later, 188 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 3: I'm sitting there next to Don Rbs in the prison uniform. 189 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 3: It written all over face. I'm confused, she confused all 190 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 3: the way. Every time she look at m and I'm 191 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: looking at her. You got the wrong one, you know, 192 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying, you know. 193 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: And she gets on the stand and she does identify them, 194 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: but it's not a real confident ID. 195 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 3: She said, well, he looked at taller, then he looked 196 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 3: at heavier. He had a beard. He didn't have a beard. 197 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: And she gets impeached. 198 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: Not only was the defense attacking the credibility of the ID, 199 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: but then, in trusting the lineup report he had received 200 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: from police, Oklahoma County Assistant Prosecutor Bob Mildfeld implied that perhaps, 201 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: after all that she'd been through, maybe Belinda Brown had 202 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: just gotten a little confused about who she had id'd. 203 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 3: When they kept trying to make it look like she 204 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: was crazy. She was injured when she got shot in 205 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 3: the head. She couldn't be sure. She got real defined 206 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: was eighteen years old, and they're trying to tell it. 207 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: Were you crazy? You don't know? And she knew she 208 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 3: had made suits. She got the right one, so she 209 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: got real defined. She put up, back up, and wouldn't 210 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 3: never back down until this day. 211 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: So the adversity only served to solidify the ID in 212 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: Belinda Brown's mind. Meanwhile, one of the teenage boys who 213 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: were interviewed back in December of seventy four was now 214 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: willing to say that he recognized Don Roberts from a 215 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: car that had passed by the liquor store that night. 216 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: And Glenn and Don were taking the trial in June 217 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: of seventy five, where the defense strategy focused on impeaching 218 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: Belinda Brown, who is now even more confident in her ID. 219 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 3: And they had us to stand next to each other. 220 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 3: She was five eight, I was five eighting. She said, well, 221 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 3: you lucky taller than him, and she said, well, he 222 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 3: might have had on stack your shoes. She was defined 223 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: because she knows she picked this and a winter. Well 224 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 3: I could have got to this defense statement, Oh Wilders 225 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: dreams and mob fails Wilder's dream. 226 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, six alibi witnesses made the trip from Harvey, Louisiana 227 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: to testify it by the pool tournament on December thirtieth 228 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: and the Turkey Bowl the following day, which made it 229 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: impossible for Glenn to have been an Edmund to commit 230 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: this crime. No, thanks to his attorney, Henry Floyd, though. 231 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: No. We put that together. My family put that together. 232 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: What he did was so he went to the court 233 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: and solicited money for travel expenses and lodges in and stuff, 234 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 3: and put that money in his pocket and the people 235 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: had to find their own way to get here. Six 236 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 3: of them witness. He didn't even call them. All he 237 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: said would be redundant, so he didn't even bring all 238 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 3: the witness up. But the police never did investigate none 239 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 3: of the alibi witness and stuff that I gave him. 240 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: You gotta report say anything with the Dallas and looked 241 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 3: at Don's He had gave alibi that he was in Dallas, 242 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: and the detectives went to Dallas and checked out the 243 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 3: alibi and come back inconclusively they couldn't prove that he 244 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: was in there, but they decided to say they couldn't 245 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 3: prove that he was. 246 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: You know, with Glenn and Don's alibi defenses, coupled with 247 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: the impeaching evidence against Belinda Brown, reasonable doubt had certainly 248 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: been raised and there was at least some hope for 249 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: a quittal. 250 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: I thought I was going to walk up out of there. No, 251 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: I couldn't see no conviction. What's nothing to convict me on. 252 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: It? 253 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: Then, last two and a half days. Just send us 254 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 3: a debt in the elected chair. Yeah, I don't have 255 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 3: to say any more about that. You know, some wounds 256 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 3: you let stay closed. 257 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 4: Right, Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people 258 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 4: in prison. 259 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us at 260 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: eight three three two O seven four six sixty six 261 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: and leave us a message. Tell us how these powerful, 262 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: often tragic stories make you feel outraged, inspired, motivated. We 263 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: want to know. We may even include your story in 264 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: a future episode. Call us a three three two O 265 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: seven four six six. 266 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 3: Six seventy five. Dad, what they call a mandatory dead 267 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 3: penoty if they find you guilty of one two three 268 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 3: elements of murder, like you kill the police or he 269 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 3: kills about it being the commission of a feling, he 270 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 3: kills about it at a certain age or something like that. 271 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: That he was automatically given the dead penety, and the 272 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 3: jury had no discretion and to rendering up the punishment 273 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 3: because it was set by legislative back was automatic dead penalty. 274 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 3: That's one of the reason why it was abolish. 275 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: In June of nineteen seventy two, the Supreme Court ruled 276 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: in Furman versus Georgia that the death penalty violated the 277 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments under certain circumstances, placing a four 278 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: year moratorium on executions until more challenges would bring about 279 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: guidance on the matter. 280 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: US Supreme Court stayed the death penalty across the country, 281 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: saying the death penalties being administered arbitrarily and capriciously, and 282 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: so Oklahoma and several other states response to that was, Okay, 283 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: you don't think that we administered the death penalty evenly 284 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: and equally, great, Well, we're just going to administer it 285 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: to everyone that is convicted of first degree murder. And 286 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: so that's the statute that Glenn was convicted under. Now, 287 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: that statute was appealed, and the Supreme Court came back 288 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: and rendered a decision on a group of statutes, including Oklahoma's, 289 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: saying basically, no, guys, we didn't mean to kill everyone. 290 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: We meant that you got to make it somewhat fair. 291 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six, the Supreme Court confirmed that capital 292 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: punishment was still legal in the United States, but under 293 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: limited circumstances, so the interim statutes in states like Oklahoma 294 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: were nullified, and in their place came the aggravating and 295 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: mitigating processes that we see used today, in which juries 296 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: have a say in sentencing. The Supreme Court ruling played 297 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: out differently in each state, but in Oklahoma, Glenn's sentence 298 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: and all others rendered before nineteen seventy six were commuted 299 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: by the Oklahoma Supreme Court to life, with the possibility 300 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: of parole from there. His direct appeal failed and financially 301 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: he was unable to mount anything further, which made the 302 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: parole board his only viable avenue at the time. 303 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: I stayed in for forty eight years because my innocence 304 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 3: was my burden, so it was more of a luxury 305 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 3: to be guilty. Guys into guilty please for all kinds 306 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 3: of atrocious crimes. But they go for the parole board 307 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 3: and they tell them I feel regret and I feel remorse, 308 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: I take responsibility for my crime, and they give them 309 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 3: a parole, let them go six to eighteen months, they'd 310 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 3: be back in again. They let them go again. But 311 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 3: I went up for thirty something years saying that I'm innocent, 312 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: and it was denied because I didn't show remorse. You know, 313 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 3: I take responsibility, notwithstanding the fact that the victim's sister 314 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 3: wrote them a letter, sent them a video deposition telling them, 315 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 3: you know, I don't think mister Simmons killed my sister. 316 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 3: I think my sister and mister Simmons victims of the 317 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: same crime. 318 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: In addition to the victim's sister, the prosecuting attorney, Bob 319 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: Mildfeldt also came. 320 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: Forward, like ninety three first letter he wrote, telling him 321 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: that he think I was innocent and I didn't get 322 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: a fair trial. I took it to the parole board 323 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 3: and they accused me of forging the letter and denied me. 324 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 3: So at that time it was going up annually for 325 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 3: the row. So the next year I had mylefel to 326 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: write the parole board itself, and he wrote him and 327 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: told him, he said, this is one case. I'm sure 328 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: a week later that the verdict would have been different 329 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 3: because of all the unasked questions we had. You know, 330 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: he described the description that didn't fit me in all 331 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 3: of this. It's in letters that he wrote to the 332 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 3: parole board. 333 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: The exact quote is very powerful when talking about Belinda 334 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: Brown's description of the assailant at around six foot two 335 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: hundred pounds quote, a physical description greatly different from Glenn's 336 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: stature at the time. The jury on that day at 337 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: that time found him guilty. However, quite candidly, it was 338 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: one of the few cases I've been involved in that 339 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: the verdict a week later could easily have been different 340 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: end quote. Yet he was denied by the parole Board 341 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: again in nineteen eighty six, but Bob milefelt the letter 342 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: was not a dead end. It gave Glynn an idea 343 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: that up until then he hadn't had the funds to 344 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: follow through on. 345 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 2: In the nineties, Glenn strikes up a relationship with a 346 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: woman on the outside and they get married, and she 347 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 2: dies about six months after her and Glenn get married. 348 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 3: And my wife left me some money in an insurance policy, 349 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: and so I took the money, and I had a 350 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 3: private investigator. I gave him a list of what I wanted, 351 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: but he came back with ten times more than I 352 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 3: had on the list. 353 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: His name is Mike Noble, and Mike ended up talking 354 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 2: the Edmund City Attorney into turning over the entire file 355 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 2: from Glenn's case from seventy four to seventy five. 356 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: If you remember, Belinda Brown seemed confused at the preliminary 357 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: hearing about whether Glenn and Don were the men she 358 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: had identified in the lineup. His private investigator turned up 359 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: the original lineup that seemed to have made Bob mildfelt 360 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: so confident in that idea trial. 361 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 2: From what we can tell, the only thing the prosecution 362 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: had was the actual lineup that had the names of 363 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: the people, you know, spot one, spot two through seven, 364 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 2: and it has the date February seventh and eighth, and 365 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: so it's not a report, it's just a lineup. And 366 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: then there are stars above Glenn and Dawn's names. That's it. 367 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: Then in the file from the Edmund City Attorney, that 368 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: lineup sheet was accompanied by the report of who she 369 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: actually chose. 370 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 2: And so in the report it says Blenda Brown subject 371 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: number six confidently and she's not so sure about subject 372 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 2: number blank. And then it talks about her coming back 373 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 2: the next day again affirmatively id in subject number six 374 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 2: and then saying yes, I am now more confident that 375 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 2: subject number and the report has a blank. Is the 376 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: other suspect The actual lineup that had the spot one, 377 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 2: spot two through Glenn was two. Don Roberts was four, 378 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: Delbert Patterson was six, Leonard Patterson was seven. 379 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: She consistently said I picked number six. You see, she 380 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 3: never picked Linson from a line up all the way 381 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: through and all the narratives is attacking the witness. Well, 382 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 3: my thing is give the witness to benefit it out. 383 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 3: Because she told them whose shadow. She told them exactly who. 384 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 3: She didn't picked nobody else. She never did pick me. 385 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: She picked Delbert Patterson. And then the report says suspect 386 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: number and it has a blank. So we're not actually 387 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 2: sure who the other person was that she picked, because 388 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: this report that was not disclosed and discovered twenty years 389 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: later is blank on who it is now, and there's 390 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: a lot of other surrounding evidence to make us believe 391 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: that it was Leonard Patterson. Leonard and Delbert were out 392 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: killing people and robin people at this time. They had 393 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: weapons that match the type of caliber that wounded Brown 394 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: and killed Miss Rogers. They were suspected of having been 395 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: in the area. The sketch of the suspect looks very 396 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: much like Leonard Patterson. Matter of fact, I put pictures 397 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 2: of Leonard in the briefire road along with the composite sketch. 398 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: It's a striking resemblance. 399 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: And as we mentioned, Delbert and Leonard Patterson matched Belinda 400 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: Brown's description of her assailants. 401 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 3: Six two hundred pounds. And where this would lead to 402 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 3: clearly is police conspiracy cover up. There's no way I 403 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: could have got to that defense table without the police 404 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 3: hiding the reports because witness told the mousada. 405 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: And it appears that Bob Mildfeld and everyone else, including 406 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: Belinda Brown, were just led to believe that she had 407 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: chosen Glenn Simmons and Don Roberts by the lineup sheet 408 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: that had been marked with stars. It's entirely possible that 409 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 1: Bob Mildfeld found out about the treachery after trial, and 410 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: perhaps that's what compelled him to write to the parole 411 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: board on Glenn's behalf. 412 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 3: I asked him about it, what happened a week later, 413 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 3: and I concluded that he didn't never have the reports, 414 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 3: and after week after the conviction, I checked this out. 415 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 3: He was an upcoming prosecuting attorney, just successfully prosecuted two 416 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 3: first degree murder case in the high profile murder case 417 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 3: that was all dissolved. His career is supposed to be 418 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 3: in skyrocketing at the very least. But when I ran 419 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: into him years later, he was a public defendant for 420 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 3: the Juvenile Division and he stayed there for years and 421 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 3: years until he retired. 422 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: Perhaps he made that career choice considering what he was 423 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: led to do to not only Glennon Donn, but also 424 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: the victims, Carol and Sue Rogers and Belinda Brown. 425 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: You had the victim pick who it was, Delbert and 426 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: Leonard Patterson, who were already in custody for doing the 427 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: exact same shit that you're looking for these two suspects on, 428 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: and then you hide that report and you pin it 429 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 2: on two other guys. Now the big question is why. 430 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 2: My speculation is we got those two black guys, let's 431 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: get a couple others. 432 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: And this was done with a crime that carried an 433 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: automatic death sentence. 434 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 3: There's a name for that attempted murder. Nobody didn't want 435 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 3: to talk about it because it's real explosive, but it 436 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: happened to me, and I'm going to talk about it. 437 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 3: Not only was it attempted murder, it's excessive to murder 438 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: because you assist the perpetrators in getting away after she 439 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 3: told you it was. It wasn't just no miscaracter justice 440 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 3: or a misidentification, and that was deliberate, conscious, and deliberate. 441 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 3: It wasn't no mistake. 442 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 2: So Glenn goes and takes the rest of his money 443 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 2: that he got from his deceased wife and pays an 444 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 2: attorney to take this report back into court. This was 445 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: Glenn's first post conviction or habeas. It was a straight 446 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 2: Brady claim. Essentially, you got to turn over exculpatory defendants. 447 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: But it's a skeleton pleading. He doesn't lay out why 448 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: this report is so consequential, and if you are going 449 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 2: to ask a judge to overturn a black man's murder convention, 450 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 2: you have to come correct and throwing something that you 451 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 2: found that is good evidence, exculpatory evidence, onto a skeleton 452 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: pleading that doesn't lay out why it's important and how 453 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: it completely takes out the base of the state's case 454 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: where the government and judges have no choice. That's what 455 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 2: you got to do to win these things. You have 456 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 2: to give the government, prosecutors, judges no choice but to 457 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: see innocence and then hope at that point that the prosecutor, judge, pardoner, 458 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 2: and pro board governor whoever it is with the authority 459 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: you're asking to make this decision has a conscience on him. Well, 460 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: the lawyer in the nineties did not lay it out. 461 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 2: He said, this is new evidence, this is Brady. You 462 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: got to give us a new trial at least, and 463 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 2: did not show that this report not only is Brady, 464 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: but it proves Glenn innocent. And he just didn't lay 465 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: it out correctly. Well, the attorney ends up getting shot 466 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: down and state district court takes it to the Court 467 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 2: of Criminal Appeals. Basically a speed bump on the way 468 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: to federal court goes to federal court district court. They 469 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: don't do anything. Glenn runs out of money, the attorneys 470 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 2: don't even bother trying to do anything in the Tenth Circuit. 471 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Glenn and Donn had been trying their hands at 472 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: the parole board each year. 473 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 3: We went up for parole two thousand and five and 474 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 3: we both got majority to the votes from the parole board, 475 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 3: but the governor turned us down. In Oklahoma, even when 476 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 3: you get but George is still up to the governor, 477 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 3: and so he turned us down. Stipulation to come back 478 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 3: up in three years. But by the time we rolled around, 479 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 3: I had two or three misconducts. They started letting sell 480 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 3: phones into the penitentiary and I had a cell phone, 481 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 3: so that was on me if you got a write 482 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: up and you can't go off for parole. And so 483 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 3: I missed it that year and he got out and 484 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 3: I didn't. After that, politics changed and it was hard 485 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 3: to get out. 486 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Glenn faced denials in court and at the parole board, 487 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: even with this report proving that he and Don Roberts 488 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: had not been identified by the victim. And since his 489 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: attorney raised the evidence on appeal and was denied, it 490 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: became procedurally defaulted. Eventually, it took a convergence of events 491 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: and people to bring about justice in this case. First, 492 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: Joe Norwood's work feeing two other innocent men put him 493 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: on Glenn's radar, while media coverage of Glenn's case did 494 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: the same for Joe. 495 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,719 Speaker 2: The local reporter in Oklahoma City, Ali Meyer, did some 496 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: fantastic reporting on Glenn's case. Glenn reached out to me 497 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: and asked me to get into the case, and so 498 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 2: I read the transcript some of the reports and it 499 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: was clear Glenn was innocent, and at that point I 500 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 2: knew what I had to do. It was the end 501 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen early twenty twe I spent two years investigating, 502 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: putting it together, making sure we had everything. 503 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: In addition, Glenn's evidence of actual innocence could finally be 504 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: raised again in court, this time effectively as a new 505 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: court ruling came to. 506 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: Pass Fortnight versus Crow. It's a tenth circuit case. It's 507 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: deal with newly presented evidence. If you could make a 508 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 3: colorable showing on actual innocence, then the jug would drive 509 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 3: all procedure bars and that you proceed if you had 510 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 3: newly presented evidence. And so became with a new presentation 511 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 3: of the evidence instead of attacking the witness in corner 512 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 3: with the same night. If we switched it all the 513 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: way around. 514 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: Glynn had been battling this case for decades, long before 515 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: I ever came around. He knew all this stuff inside 516 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: and out. And he pointed out to me quickly, he's 517 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: just like listen, Blinda Brown was right. 518 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 3: She picked the right guys. 519 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 2: I think that's who did it, and I put that 520 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: in the brief, and so we ended up filing Glenn's 521 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: case in mid twenty twenty one and then evidentially hearing 522 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: in being set April twenty twenty three. We ended up 523 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: putting fifteen witnesses on a stand. We had an expert 524 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: and eyewitness identification that looked over the case and rendered 525 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: an opinion that Blenda Brown's identification of Glenn in court 526 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 2: is just not an identification at all. We ended up 527 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 2: having total twelve alibi witnesses that testified that Glenn was 528 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: in New Orleans at the time. Bob Mahlefelt testified that 529 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: report was not in the file, and I acknowledged that 530 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: that report does a lot of damage to the state's case. 531 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: It impeaches Blnda Brown's testimony. 532 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Bob Milefelt didn't have any information as to how 533 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: or why that report was missing from his trial evidence, 534 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: as well as who might have starred Don and Glenn's 535 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: names on the bogus lineup sheet. But fortunately all of 536 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: this was playing out across from the newly elected DA 537 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma County, Vicky Bihenna, who eventually joined their motion 538 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: to vacate, and on July twentieth, twenty twenty three, Judge 539 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: Palumbo vacated a conviction and ordered a new trial, and 540 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: Glenn was released on bond for the first time in 541 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: forty eight years, one month, in eighteen days. 542 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 3: That was the moment. That was the first moment I 543 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 3: stepped out, you know, into freedom when they took the 544 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 3: cuffsafs and I walked out of the courtroom and escored it. 545 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 3: That was it, but being born again, like the buildable 546 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: card has just been severed. You see the picture that 547 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 3: I took with my hands up in the air. I 548 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: think it's all my gofund me and it's been getting 549 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 3: better every day. 550 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: Shortly after this, in September twenty twenty three, Victory Bahenna 551 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: said that they didn't have sufficient evidence to move forward 552 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: with a trial. It was still a far cry from 553 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: being declared innocent. 554 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: Vicky Behenna. She objected to Glenn being found actually innocent, 555 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: So we had to fight that out a lot. 556 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 3: Oh here's what she said. One of the winds is 557 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: still alive and sticking to a story. We can't find 558 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 3: you guilty, but we're gonna let you slide. I'm like bullshit. 559 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 3: I responded that I'm sticking to a story too. 560 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: The victims opinion is that she identified the right people. Well, 561 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: you damn right, she picked the right people. It was 562 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 2: Delbra Patterson and Leonard Patterson and miss Beheen is correct. 563 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 2: We need to respect her id. 564 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: As they damn well should have way back in nineteen 565 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: seventy five. 566 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 3: So they didn't have nothing to do but to throw 567 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 3: it out. It was no defense for it. 568 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: In December twenty twenty three, Glenn Simmons was declared actually innocent, 569 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: clearing the path for his civil litigation. But as listeners 570 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: of the show know, that can take a very long time. 571 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: In addition, as we record this, Glenn is undergoing chemotherapy 572 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: as he battles a stage four cancer diagnosis, so he 573 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: needs your support right now. As he mentioned, there's a GoFundMe. 574 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: It's going to be linked in the episode description, so 575 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: please give what you can. And with that, we're going 576 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: to go to closing arguments. It's where first of all, 577 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: I thank you to amazing man Joe Norwood and Glenn Simmons, 578 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna turn off my microphone, kick back in 579 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: my chair with my headphones on and just close my 580 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: eyes and just listen to anything else you have to 581 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: share with me and our phenomenal audience. So Joe, you 582 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: go first, that's our tradition, and then just sort of 583 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: hand the microphone off to Glenn, and Glenn will take 584 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: us off into the sunset. 585 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: You know we've covered it. It's I mean, I don't 586 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: view this as a grandiose statement. It's a historic case. 587 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: He's the longest serving wrongful conviction in the history of 588 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 2: the United States. He was sentenced to death and eventually 589 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: found and proven by clearing, convincing evidence to be innocent. 590 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 2: I don't have to say any more for people to 591 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: understand the gravity and what this case says about our 592 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: system planning. 593 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: And I'm trying to launch my nonprofit and nonprofit Grace 594 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: Redempson is salvation perfect for me to foot me integration. 595 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: So I want to get it to this reintegration thing. 596 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 3: I got this planned by this wrap around support system 597 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 3: for guys coming out. There's a lot of guys at 598 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 3: the same position that I was in, even worse because 599 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 3: they don't have the support that I had, and some 600 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 3: of them getting ready to be released. Now. My objective 601 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: is to curtail recidivism because these statistics seventy two seventy one, 602 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 3: seventy two percent of all inmates get out going to 603 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 3: return back to prison within six to eighteen months, and 604 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: this statistics has stood for twenty thirty years for the 605 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 3: numbers to see that consistent. Then somebody delibered it, got 606 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 3: their hands on the scale, and all I know is 607 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 3: prison in and out. Like I said, I've seen guys, 608 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 3: brilliant guys who've got college degrees and all kind of 609 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: skills come back over and over again. And I've offered 610 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 3: wonder why why they come back. They don't come back 611 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 3: because they wanted to come back, because they haven't had 612 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 3: time to adjust, they haven't had time to make the transition, 613 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: they haven't had that wrap around support system. And so 614 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: this is what my nonprofit going on intels and I 615 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: would like to focus on the women. Oklahoma quite one 616 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 3: of the best kept secret is that. And you don't 617 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 3: hear politicians, of journalists or nobody talking about this. Oklahoma 618 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 3: is number one and the incarceration of women and they 619 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: have held that do be just distinction for thirty years 620 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 3: or more. And I'm not just talking about the number 621 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 3: one in the United States. I'm talking about the world 622 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 3: over and nobody mentioned this. It's just like you ask 623 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 3: the questions, why you know it's the women know kaoma 624 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: one inclined to be criminals or they morediv than anybody else, 625 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: and nobody gonna answer that question say yeah. And if 626 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 3: you can answer that question and say yeah to that question, 627 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: then it's got to be the legislators. We're a nation 628 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 3: of laws, right, so it's got to be the legislators 629 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 3: doing this. So, you know, we really need to rethink 630 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 3: and reconsider the way we do this criminal justice and 631 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 3: the way we apply these things. And so this is 632 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 3: where I want to dedicate some of my time and 633 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 3: effort towards because I've had first saying experience with it. 634 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: You know, thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. 635 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: Listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts 636 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: one week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 637 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, 638 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow 639 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Clyburn. The 640 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 641 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 642 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 643 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 644 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: It's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 645 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: for Good podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one