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Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George

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Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong, Joe Getty, Armstrong and Gettie

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Speaker 1: and he Armstrong and Jetty.

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Speaker 2: So, last week in Los Angeles, a federal judge issued

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Speaker 2: an order blocking the Trump administration from carrying out controversial

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Speaker 2: immigration sweeps in seven southern California counties. Well, that order

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Speaker 2: has no effect up here in Northern California, where we

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Speaker 2: joined a Border Patrol strike team today here in the

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Speaker 2: state Capitol as they went out and enforced immigration law.

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Speaker 1: Let's get right to that video. Take a look.

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Speaker 2: As soon as those border patrol agents pulled up to

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Speaker 2: a local home depot, suspected illegal immigrants took off running

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Speaker 2: in all directions. That then led to several foot pursuits

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Speaker 2: and we saw about ten people arrested in this one

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Speaker 2: single location.

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Speaker 1: Now that's the home depot and Flora. The only reason

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Speaker 1: I ever go over to Flora is because I go

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Speaker 1: to PCP Motorsports a lot to get my motorcycles worked

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Speaker 1: on and that sort of thing. But I'm over in

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Speaker 1: that area and it is pretty uh Spanish speaking, heavily

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Speaker 1: heavy over there, so it's not shocking and home depots

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Speaker 1: have seemed to be a target really all across the

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Speaker 1: country for so I've never actually done this, and I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of surprised I haven't, because we've needed lots of

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Speaker 1: workers out at the farm for a variety of things.

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Speaker 1: But so you can just show up to the home

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Speaker 1: depot and there's a bunch of Spanish speaking gentlemen hanging

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Speaker 1: around the parking lot who are willing to work.

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Speaker 3: Who you say, I need two guys for eight hours ex.

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Speaker 3: Twenty dollars an hour whatever.

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Speaker 1: And they probably aren't citizens of this land, uh, nor

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Speaker 1: properly registered as visitors.

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Speaker 3: That's what I've heard, Jack, But the governor of cal Unicornia,

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Speaker 3: the man with more lust for the oval office than

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Speaker 3: a teenage boy has for the touch.

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Speaker 1: Of a female l presuming they're straight. We love everyone here.

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Speaker 3: Gavy blasts away, trying to escape a court order stopping

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Speaker 3: their reprehensible and illegal racial profiling and illegal rests in

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Speaker 3: La Border Patrol came to Sacramento to spread more of

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Speaker 3: their chaos and fear they should go do their jobs

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Speaker 3: at the border. Interestingly, he posted that online and the

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Speaker 3: comments were almost entirely Yeah, that's what we voted for.

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Speaker 1: For them to do what they're doing. Another eighty twenty issue.

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Speaker 3: Ah, and of course some of the local media, including

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Speaker 3: the reprehensible Sacramento will be reported that one of the

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Speaker 3: individuals captured by ICE is actually a citizen of the

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Speaker 3: United States.

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Speaker 1: But Bill Malugin explains why they did that.

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Speaker 2: In the next clip, Border Patrol went on to tell

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Speaker 2: us that record checks came back already on one one

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Speaker 2: of those men, showing he's a felon with a prior

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Speaker 2: conviction for fentanyl trafficking. Now, agents also chased down this man,

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Speaker 2: a US citizen. This is after Border Patrol said he

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Speaker 2: slashed the tire on one of their vehicles. Agents eventually

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Speaker 2: took him to the ground where he appeared to lunch

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Speaker 2: at one of the agents, causing him to get mace

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Speaker 2: in the face and placed under arrest. As he was arrested,

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Speaker 2: his wife was shouting that he's a US citizen. Agents responded, well,

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Speaker 2: too bad, because he slashed our.

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Speaker 1: Tire, mased in the fast. That's not the way you

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Speaker 1: want to spend your weekend.

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Speaker 3: You get to face mace in place under arrest.

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Speaker 1: What do you want them to do? Well, so we

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Speaker 1: got this text. This is kind of where I am

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Speaker 1: on this. Somebody said, I don't believe the polls. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into the latest poll that just came out a

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Speaker 1: couple of hours ago where people are getting less happy

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Speaker 1: with this. But this person texted, if we let in

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Speaker 1: twenty million people, there's gonna be some pain getting them out,

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Speaker 1: the country will be better for it. I think I

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Speaker 1: heard this from Sarahzger on the Dispatch. She's lizes polls

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Speaker 1: and issues and the different sort of stuff and then

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Speaker 1: the actual long term effect versus just the polling at

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Speaker 1: the time. I think ultimately the Republican Party and Trump

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Speaker 1: will be benefit from dealing with this, even if the

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Speaker 1: polling at the time doesn't look very good. For instance,

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Speaker 1: right now, the latest Raids IPSOS poll out fifty four

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Speaker 1: percent of people disagreed with the statement immigration arrests at

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Speaker 1: places of work are good for the country. Fifty four disagreed,

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Speaker 1: only twenty eight in support. That's a pretty big gap.

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Speaker 1: But again, at the end of the day, I think

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Speaker 1: people are going to reward the party that finally does

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Speaker 1: something about illegal immigration.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a really interesting point because you do

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Speaker 3: tend to forget about some of the rough patches that

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Speaker 3: took place as you're accomplishing an important goal. Once that

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Speaker 3: goes accomplished, what I had another thought is important. Oh,

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Speaker 3: I wish the Republicans were any good at messaging. It

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Speaker 3: must be because Conservatives, generally speak, are individualists and we

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Speaker 3: don't particularly like being told what to say. But why

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Speaker 3: not have everybody respond with some version of the Democrats

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Speaker 3: let twelve million. But whatever the good accurate number is

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Speaker 3: during the Biden years or Biden plus abom or whatever,

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Speaker 3: the Democrats let twelve million people into the country. It's

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Speaker 3: not going to be easy to fix that. Bear with us.

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Speaker 1: That's a good line, That's a great line. They should

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Speaker 1: all be repeating that.

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Speaker 3: You're right, yeah, yeah, And I actually do believe that

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Speaker 3: poll because I think so many of us interact and

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Speaker 3: all over the country with folks who maybe don't have

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Speaker 3: their paperwork in order, but they're doing jobs and seem

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Speaker 3: to be law abiding in the rest of it. The

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Speaker 3: further you get down the road toward law abiding and

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Speaker 3: tax paying, the less support you're going to have. But

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Speaker 3: where the critical point is where you have so little

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Speaker 3: support you have to stop.

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Speaker 1: I don't know or how difficult it would be to

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Speaker 1: separate those out that wouldn't take either way too long

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Speaker 1: or costs way too much.

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Speaker 3: One other talking point I wish the Republicans to your

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Speaker 3: point I wish they would settle on, is if these

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Speaker 3: so called sanctuary states would turn over the criminal illegal

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Speaker 3: aliens to ICE, we wouldn't have to do this.

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Speaker 1: Excellent point. That would be a winning message. Excellent point.

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Speaker 1: There is a breakdown on the so only twenty eight

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Speaker 1: percent of Americans are in support of going into these

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Speaker 1: workplaces like the home depot down the street here, only

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Speaker 1: twenty eight percent. But it's a pretty big divide. Only

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Speaker 1: seven percent of Democrats while fifty six percent of Republicans.

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Speaker 1: But I think only fifty six percent of Republicans is

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Speaker 1: pretty striking, given the fact that I saw a different poll.

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Speaker 1: Trump's approval among Republicans just overall is it ninety percent,

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Speaker 1: ninety percent, but on this issue it drops down quite

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Speaker 1: a lot. Overall, Trump's immigration approval rating is down to

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Speaker 1: forty one in this poll. He was as eye as

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Speaker 1: forty seven just a month ago. It's down to forty one.

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Speaker 1: He could be in the thirties very soon. But you know,

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Speaker 1: to use a very tired sort of phrase, he's gonna

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Speaker 1: make an omelet you got to break some eggs. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you deal with this mess without having

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Speaker 1: some pretty unfortunate stories out there.

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Speaker 3: And maybe force the hand of the electorate and or

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Speaker 3: the Congress to say, all right, all right, all right,

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Speaker 3: all right, you've made your point. We need to enforce

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Speaker 3: the law. But the laws are a little broad. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't have support. Let's let's refine this, let's have better laws.

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Speaker 3: To my point about sanctuary jurisdictions, though, I like this

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Speaker 3: next clip, now heedy too.

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Speaker 2: The Border Patrol chief in charge of this entire operation

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Speaker 2: tells us the federal government can and will go wherever

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Speaker 2: they want, even in this sanctuary state.

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Speaker 4: Well, there is no sanctuary city. Sacramento is not a

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Speaker 4: sanctuary city. The state of California is not a sanctuary state.

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Speaker 4: There is no sanctuary anywhere.

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Speaker 1: We'll be here.

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Speaker 4: You'll probably see us in many of the locations as well.

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Speaker 4: We're here to stay. We're not going anywhere. We're going

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Speaker 4: to affect this mission, scare the homeland. So did the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court decide to take that up? Nor did I

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Speaker 4: dream that were you gonna finally deal with that? Is

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Speaker 4: there such thing that guy's basically saying there's no such

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Speaker 4: thing as a sanctuary city or a sanctuary state, and

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Speaker 4: there is there shouldn't be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to say next session, it's on the docket.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I dreamt it too. That'd be weird if we're

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Speaker 3: dreaming the same dreams. I'm quitting the show's gone too far. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: I'm disturbed, but mostly I don't watch. You see, in

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Speaker 3: my dreams, some of them can get very well, let's

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Speaker 3: just say not for air.

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Speaker 1: It's like briefly when we were getting each other's notes

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Speaker 1: in our note portion of our iPhones. Remember that, What

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Speaker 1: the hell was that? Yeah? I don't even remember.

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Speaker 3: Highly troubling, Yeah, no kidding. Anyway, moving along, let's see

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Speaker 3: what else do we have. Oh, this is kind of

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Speaker 3: foun how come.

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Speaker 1: That hasn't been set out loud more strongly by more people.

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Speaker 1: There's no such thing as a sanctuary, So you can't

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Speaker 1: have a sanctuary from the current federal law. That's not

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Speaker 1: a thing, or you could, or or red states would

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Speaker 1: start having sanctuary gun law, we allow people to get

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Speaker 1: open carry here just anywhere they want, all the time,

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Speaker 1: and you can have as many rounds as you want.

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Speaker 1: That because we're a sanctuary gun in town.

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Speaker 3: Right right again. The Republicans are so terrible with their messaging.

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Speaker 3: It seems to me a pretty compelling sales pitch to say, look,

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Speaker 3: we're just going to deal with the criminals. We need

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Speaker 3: law enforcement everywhere to hand over the criminals and see

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Speaker 3: what percentage of Americans are in favor of that. This

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Speaker 3: is gonna be like everybody and at the same time,

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Speaker 3: and trust me, well, anybody who's been listening to this

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Speaker 3: show for a long time knows tim as hardcore border

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Speaker 3: security serious immigration laws as anybody out there. But on

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Speaker 3: the conservative side of the aisle, there is undeniably sympathy

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Speaker 3: for the hard working go getter who disrupts their whole life,

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Speaker 3: busts their ass, shows up every single day, follows the law,

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Speaker 3: pays their taxes, loves their family, just happens to be

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Speaker 3: from a fur in land. If they want to come

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Speaker 3: correct and pay a fine or whatever and have a

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Speaker 3: pathway to whatever. There's a lot of sympathy for those

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Speaker 3: people on the right, and there should be. Maybe we

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Speaker 3: can enact a law wherefore every person like that who

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Speaker 3: we permit to stay in the country, we kick out

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Speaker 3: some free loading scumbags who are American citizens.

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Speaker 1: I don't care what they are. You're born in Omaha,

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Speaker 1: but you're living off the taxpayer. Yeah, get out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're's the third generation sucking off the government's teeth.

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Speaker 1: Please, no, you're out.

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Speaker 5: Go to that.

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Speaker 1: I'm a citizen. Well, go be a citizen somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: You're a leech. Go to that El Salvador prison where

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Speaker 1: they make you bend over and walk around. Well no,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, there are other alternatives, but call it.

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Speaker 1: Call it what would it be?

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Speaker 3: The the go getters for sit downers act.

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Speaker 1: No, that's not good. I gotta keep working on it.

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Speaker 1: But you get the point. I have a list of

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Speaker 1: some people you can grab. I gotta hear you. I

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Speaker 1: hear you. Put me in charge. I'll be fair. You

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Speaker 1: probably are on the story of the Chris Martin of

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Speaker 1: Coldplay does the kiss cam and the guy kisses the

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Speaker 1: girl but they're having an affair and they get caught

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Speaker 1: and it becomes a problem. He is a CEO of

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Speaker 1: a big company, and he put out a big statement

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Speaker 1: yesterday that I thought was interesting. Well, you know, put

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Speaker 1: that in our groupings of apologies that we we like

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Speaker 1: to read.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, interesting, is one word for his statement, among other things,

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Speaker 3: on the way stay.

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Speaker 6: Here, the Steve Miller Band has canceled all of its

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Speaker 6: tour dates because of global warming. Oh god, yeah, organizers

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Speaker 6: admit it's a waste of fuel to go from Phoenix, Arizona,

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Speaker 6: all the way to Tacoma, Philadelphia, Atlanta, LA.

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Speaker 1: Why are you clapping for that? What he is? The

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Speaker 1: A plus policeman, different concert. I can't believe cold Play

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Speaker 1: with Chris Martin because he's a very u progressive musician.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's married to Gwyneth Paltrow. They named their

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Speaker 1: kid Apple. They believed in what was that conscious uncoupling

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Speaker 1: or whatever the whole package. That's right, But he's still

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Speaker 1: touring despite climate change. And I can't believe how much

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Speaker 1: attention the story is getting. The whole you've probably heard it,

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Speaker 1: are you're seeing it? If you watched any news yesterday.

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Speaker 1: It included the story of the they do a kiss

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Speaker 1: cam at their concerts like they do it baseball games,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and uh, they put they put the camera

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Speaker 1: on a couple who like immediately gets wide eyed and

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Speaker 1: like disappear, and Chris Marcus.

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Speaker 3: Usually couples see themselves and say, oh, let's kiss. It's

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Speaker 3: the kiss cam and everybody yy. But this couple's like,

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Speaker 3: holy crap, and everybody's yay. So here's what it sounded like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, all right, come on, Ruthie. What either an

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Speaker 1: affair or they're just very shut Yeah, you're right. They're

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Speaker 1: either having an affair. They're very shy. The CEO of

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Speaker 1: this corporation with the HR chief of his company. They're

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Speaker 1: both married to other people, and uh, pretty bold in

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Speaker 1: their affair. I would say to go out to this

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Speaker 1: concert anyway. He felt the need because this blew up

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Speaker 1: all day yesterday and social media. A statement from CEO

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Speaker 1: Andy Byron, New York, New York, July seventeen. I want

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge the moment that's been circulating online and the

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Speaker 1: disappointment it's caused what was supposed to be a night

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Speaker 1: of music and joy. Oh wow, I couldn't even when

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Speaker 1: I read that, I thought, I can't believe this is

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Speaker 1: where you're starting. What was supposed to be a night

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Speaker 1: of music and joy turned into a deeply personal mistake

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Speaker 1: playing out on a very public stage. I want to

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Speaker 1: sincerely apologize to my wife, my family, and the team

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Speaker 1: at Astronomery that's the company he runs. You deserve better

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Speaker 1: for me as a partner, as a father, and as

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Speaker 1: a leader. Wow, that's he's right. It has caused some disappointment.

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Speaker 1: I love that word.

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Speaker 3: His wife must be thinking, oh, he's having an affair

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Speaker 3: and actually going out with her on the town.

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Speaker 1: That's disappointing.

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Speaker 3: And his children are thinking, oh, Papa has another wife

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Speaker 3: across town.

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Speaker 1: I too, am disappointed or our family is going to

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Speaker 1: split up and having been through that, this will be

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Speaker 1: the most devastating thing that's ever happened in my entire

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Speaker 1: life as a child, and I'll never ever be the

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Speaker 1: same afterwards. But how disappointing, how fun for everybody to

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Speaker 1: see it happen on the Cold Play stage. This is

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Speaker 1: ironic that it was supposed to be a night of

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Speaker 1: music and joy. That's a weird way to look at it.

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Speaker 1: This is not who I want to be or how

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Speaker 1: I want to represent the company I helped build. It's

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Speaker 1: about the company. I'm taking time to reflect, to take accountability,

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Speaker 1: and to figure out the next steps personally and professionally.

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Speaker 1: I asked for privacy as I navigate that process. Well,

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Speaker 1: he probably was thinking lawyers and hr and all that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff immediately, in addition to the fact that

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Speaker 1: he may have blown up his family.

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Speaker 3: Having already issued a fairly mediocre apology, he decides to

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Speaker 3: write a little more.

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Speaker 1: This is the part's amazing. I also want to express

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Speaker 1: how troubling it is that what should have been a

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Speaker 1: private moment became public without my consent. Oohoo, So you're

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Speaker 1: kind of angry at someone else for the way this

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Speaker 1: has turned out interesting. I respect artists and entertainers, but

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Speaker 1: I hope we can all think more deeply about the

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Speaker 1: impact of turning someone else's life into a spectacle. You

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Speaker 1: were literally in an effing stadium full of people. In

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Speaker 1: what sense is that a private moment? That is hilarious? Sir,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that with a little bit like rereading it,

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Speaker 1: he thought, he didn't think. You know, I probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: blame anybody for this, because I have created this situation

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Speaker 1: completely on my own, acting like it's someone else's fault

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Speaker 1: somehow at the end of the letters, probably not a

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Speaker 1: good idea, but I don't know. Maybe that helped him

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Speaker 1: sleep last night, probably in a hotel. It's a great

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Speaker 1: example of how we can come up with self justifying

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Speaker 1: arguments that are just completely ridiculous, because I mean, for

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Speaker 1: him to claim that was a private moment, that's hilarious,

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Speaker 1: but he believed it enough to write it and issue it,

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Speaker 1: or that that's the real or that that's worth even

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Speaker 1: bringing up at all. So if Chris Martin hadn't put

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Speaker 1: the camera on you, you'd been able to have your

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Speaker 1: affair and go to the concert with your lover and

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Speaker 1: continue both of you lie to your families. And wouldn't

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Speaker 1: that have been grand? I mean, what, wow, what a dope.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, coming up, they call them the monster trucks of

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Speaker 3: the Lake. They're banned in many places, and a brilliant

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Speaker 3: young economist explains the economics of doing it yourself or

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Speaker 3: not doing it yourself.

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Speaker 1: Intriguing stuff. I like all this. Stay tuned, Armstrong and Getty,

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Speaker 1: And finally, today Uber announced a partnership to deploy more

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Speaker 1: than twenty thousand robotaxis over the next six years.

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Speaker 6: Lyft also has a robotaxi, but it's just a regular

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Speaker 6: car where the driver's covered by a blanket.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting that he makes it seem Likelyft is a

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Speaker 1: poor man's Uber where I was told a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago and I struggled with Uber that somebody told

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Speaker 1: me no, no, no, you got to dot Lift is Target,

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Speaker 1: Uber is Walmart. But then other people have told me

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Speaker 1: it varies from town to town, which might be true

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Speaker 1: or maybe it's all, but it's certainly not clear that

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Speaker 1: Lift is like clearly lesser than Uber. I have looked

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Speaker 1: for patterns and not to find them. No, I can't either,

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Speaker 1: although the price office sure varies a lot sometimes so

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Speaker 1: I do check both. If one comes back high, yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely true. But that's another pattern I haven't been able

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Speaker 1: to figure out. If it's just if it just happens

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Speaker 1: to be a day where there's a bunch of.

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Speaker 3: Lift drivers out. Yeah, but a lot of guys are

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Speaker 3: both anyway. Sure there's somebody who has a grasp on this.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps you can email us mail bag at armstrong e

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Speaker 3: Giddy dot com. But speaking of working and paying the

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Speaker 3: people to do things to work for you, I came

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Speaker 3: across this essay that I thought was so great by

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Speaker 3: Roland Friar. Roland is a fascinating guy. He's an absolutely

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Speaker 3: brilliant Youngish economist. He happens to be on the faculty

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Speaker 3: of Harvard. Among other things, he's won many awards. He

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Speaker 3: first came to fame as a young black man because

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Speaker 3: he published an extremely compelling analysis in twenty nineteen that

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Speaker 3: we talked about at length arguing that black and Hispanic

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Speaker 3: Americans were no more likely than white Americans to be

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Speaker 3: shot by police in a given interaction with police.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it was somewhat less likely.

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Speaker 3: And that was extremely controversial, and he was called all

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Speaker 3: of the things black folks are called when they dare go.

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Speaker 1: Against the progressive consensus.

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Speaker 3: But he's a really compelling guy and what he's writing

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Speaker 3: it do you have a comment on that, Jack before

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Speaker 3: before you head or Okay, he's talking about the economics

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Speaker 3: of d IY do it yourself? Should you hire someone

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Speaker 3: to mow your lawn or clean your house? And I

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Speaker 3: thought this is great and we'll close the CENTERIC. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know, and it's trust me, it pays off. We'll

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Speaker 3: post this at Armstrong and getty dot com. You might

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Speaker 3: get paywalled, but we'll see what we can do. He

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Speaker 3: mentions that Americans are real di wires. We clean our

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Speaker 3: own houses a large extent, assemble our own furniture a grill,

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Speaker 3: even when we'd be better off hiring someone else.

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Speaker 1: He says they are better off is a phrase that

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Speaker 1: should be put in quotes, because he can argue that

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Speaker 1: that's the whole point of this.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, still I mow my lawn and cook most nights

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Speaker 3: for my family, even though I work eighty to ninety

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Speaker 3: hours a week, not counting my side hustle as an

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Speaker 3: unpaid driver in sideline soccer coach for my two daughters.

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Speaker 3: I'm an economist able to think through these decision decisions rationally.

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Speaker 1: Yet here we are.

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Speaker 3: When a friend invited me to play golf and I

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Speaker 3: declined because the yard needed mowing, he couldn't hide his disbelief. Quote,

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Speaker 3: you can pay someone to cut your lawn, you can't

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Speaker 3: pay someone to have fun for you. He meant it

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Speaker 3: as a joke. I took it as an indictment. He

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Speaker 3: was calling me out on one of the most basic

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Speaker 3: principles in economics, opportunity cost, meaning the things you give

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Speaker 3: up when you spend your resources, including time and money,

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Speaker 3: on something else. If I choose to be an astronaut,

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Speaker 3: I have given up my chance to be an interpretive dancer,

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Speaker 3: at least.

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Speaker 1: For a while. I think that was a good choice.

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Speaker 3: If I if I have limited money, explored space as

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Speaker 3: opposed to world around in random ways and claimed it

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Speaker 3: meant something so opportunity costs meaning the things you give

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Speaker 3: up when you spend your resources, including time and money,

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Speaker 3: on something else.

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Speaker 1: Was he right?

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Speaker 3: Maybe, But a truly economics informed approach to dy is

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Speaker 3: more nuanced than it seems. It gets really interesting. It's

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Speaker 3: tempting to treat decisions like this as simple arithmetic. Add

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Speaker 3: up the cost of hiring help, compare it with your

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Speaker 3: hourly wage, voila. In that light, it does seem crazy

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Speaker 3: for a tenured professor to mow his lawn. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: talked about this a year or so ago.

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Speaker 1: Scott Linskim, who does the financial stuff economic stuff for

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Speaker 1: the Dispatch, wrote a Colosscott long piece about that opportunity

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Speaker 1: cost that really kind of convinced me toward hiring more people.

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Speaker 1: Though I don't know that I have which I have

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Speaker 1: a feeling this is where we're going, and I want

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Speaker 1: to hear the rest of this. I bet you're right.

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Speaker 1: Let's see. It's it's tempting to.

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Speaker 3: Treat decisions like this simple arithmetic, as he says, it

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Speaker 3: seems even crazier to do what I did as a

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Speaker 3: broke grad student when I hired a daily housekeeper so

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Speaker 3: I could stay focused on what mattered most research, writing, teaching,

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Speaker 3: in the occasional video game, when I wasn't consumed with

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Speaker 3: the first three. But that isn't really thinking like an economist.

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Speaker 3: And he's one of the leaders in economics moving from

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Speaker 3: this single minded idea that human beings are purely logical

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Speaker 3: and purely you know, economic in terms of dollars and

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Speaker 3: cents numbers, and that's the only thing that matters. It

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Speaker 3: seems laughable in retrospect that that's the way economics thought

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Speaker 3: for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. You know, if you were going to

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Speaker 1: go with that logic, no one would ever have kids

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Speaker 1: because economically it does make sense. Right.

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Speaker 3: Decision making is about considering the full set of options

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Speaker 3: and how much you value each one. Sometimes you may

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Speaker 3: find yourself mowing the lawn when you can afford not to,

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Speaker 3: or paying more than your hourly wage to hire help.

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Speaker 3: Other economic concepts can illustrate why one diminishing marginal returns.

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Speaker 3: The value of an extra hour isn't fixed. It depends

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Speaker 3: on what came before it. If you've been working all

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Speaker 3: weekend and finally carve out a free hour mowing the

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Speaker 3: lawn might feel like a punishment, and avoiding that punishment

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Speaker 3: would be especially valuable. But if you spent the weekend

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Speaker 3: relaxing or playing with your kids, that same hour might

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Speaker 3: feel restorative. The activity hasn't changed you have. He's mentioned

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Speaker 3: speaking of uber and left as we were. When I've

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Speaker 3: been traveling too much and I haven't seen my daughters,

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Speaker 3: I'll sometimes take an uber with them instead of driving,

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Speaker 3: just so we can sit in the back and catch up.

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00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: Oh to me, that's money well spent. That's cute. That's sweet,

436
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah?

437
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that brings me to a third economic layer, to

438
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 3: consider American beliefs about identity and morality.

439
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: I think this is maybe what you were hinting at, Jack.

440
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 3: We attach pride to doing things ourselfs, and pride has

441
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: value too. For some of us, mowing the lawn isn't

442
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 3: only about the grass, time or money.

443
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: It's about what it says about us.

444
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: It signals I take care of my things, I don't

445
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: rely on others, I'm not above the work. Sometimes I

446
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: wonder if I'm pushing that more out of principle or

447
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: because I want others to see me pushing it. I

448
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 3: resisted hiring anybody to help with lawng cair, landscaping, plants, trees, etc.

449
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 3: For a very long time for precisely that reason, and

450
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: I had to admit it. And I had some fairly

451
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: complicated yards that took so much time and energy it

452
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 3: was indefensible.

453
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: But I was doing it out of pride. That's interesting.

454
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: I think he also got a factor in what it

455
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: signals to your kids. And I don't know which side

456
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: of this a person would be on. You might feel

457
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 1: like you should signal to your kids, don't waste your

458
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: time on the lawn, or you might I feel like

459
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: I'm closer to this need to signal to my kids,

460
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: I mowed the freaking lawn right and that noscle you

461
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: on the lawn.

462
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: I do what has to be done, whether I like

463
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: it or not. Maybe the most important muscle any human

464
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 3: being ever develops. In fact, I know it is beneath

465
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: our pride lurks. The opportunity cost. My friend chided me

466
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 3: about a cost that too few people consider seriously. According

467
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 3: to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Americans spend two hours

468
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 3: a day on household activities like cooking, cleaning, laundry and

469
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 3: yard work. That's more time than we spend exercising or socializing.

470
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 3: We should probably buy more of that time back, even

471
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 3: if it means swallowing a little pride. Not everyone can

472
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 3: or should outsources DIY activities, of course, but a great

473
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: many people perform these tasks out of habit, inertia, or

474
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: guilt and would be better off spending the money to

475
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: get help.

476
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: Well, I just one. I enjoy mowing the lawn. I

477
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: just I don't think I couldn't. I don't have a

478
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: lawn currently. I don't own a how so, but if

479
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: I did own the house I have, I would mold

480
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: al on myself. But there's other stuff, like our agent's

481
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: always on me because every time I'm talking to them

482
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: about personal life Stuff's just the amount of paperwork that

483
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: I have to do is the loane. I'm the head

484
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: of the household, and the household I'm the only person.

485
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: I should hire somebody for that. I should not be

486
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: spending my time hours trying to log into a website

487
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: pay a stupid bill crap. Somebody should be doing that

488
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: for me. That's just a waste of my life. Yeah.

489
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the sentence about many people perform these tasks

490
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: out of habit, inertia or guilt, and would be better

491
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: off spending the money to get help.

492
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: You know.

493
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: That reminds me of one of the great divides I

494
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: think that you can observe in society. The left generally

495
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 3: is big on trust your feelings, and the right is

496
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 3: more on, you know, observe your feelings, but think about them.

497
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 3: Your feelings are irrational and unhelpful, at least as often

498
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 3: as they are you know, or you know, maybe it's

499
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: sixty forty or forty sixty, it doesn't matter. But the

500
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 3: idea that your feelings are always right and you should

501
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 3: always trust them. Yeah, yeah, my husband kind of pissed

502
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 3: me off. I'm gonna blast him and tell him exactly

503
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 3: what I think of him. No, don't trust that feeling.

504
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: It'll be gone in like ten seconds anyway. Here are

505
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: some examples Roland writes of how to think through this

506
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: decision these decisions Like an economist. Jane is a corporate

507
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: lawyer and workaholic. Not enough hours in her day. Her

508
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 3: rare moments are free time or precious She's got cash

509
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: to burn for her paying someone to clean the house

510
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 3: or prepared dinner isn't indulgence, it's common sense.

511
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: That's an easy one.

512
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: Heather is short on both time and money, and hiring

513
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 3: a cleaner would cost more than she makes it work.

514
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: Usually she hates cleaning or needs that time for something urgent,

515
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: she's probably better off doing it herself. That isn't a failure.

516
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: It's the most rational choice given her circumstances. Yeah, unless

517
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 3: she really hates cleaning or needs that time, she's better

518
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 3: off doing it herself.

519
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: I did want to throw this in because we're gonna

520
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: get a whole bunch of texts about this, because the

521
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: last time we wrote it up about you know you

522
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: and your effing yachts or whatever, about people who this

523
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: is an option for Yeah, for a big giant chunk

524
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: of my life. I didn't worry about these conversations because

525
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't an option to hire anybody to do anything. Ever,

526
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: So you have to be in a situation where it's

527
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: an option. So he gave you a pretty easy one

528
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: on both ends. John is a middle class dad with

529
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: modest savings and limited flexibility at work. If he wants

530
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: extra time at home, he can't simply clock out early.

531
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: He pays the cleaner more than he makes per hours,

532
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: so on paper, it doesn't seem to add up. Yet

533
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: it buys him time to read to his kids, or

534
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: help with homework, or simply be less stressed after a

535
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: long shift. It might be the smartest money he spends

536
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: all week. He isn't maximizing his present disposable income, but

537
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: he's boosting his lifetime utility. Yeah, that's where I was.

538
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: I'm getting a person to clean the house, which I

539
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: still rubs me the wrong way. It just it's not

540
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: in my DNA. But it became clear to me that

541
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: it was cutting into time with the kids to do

542
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: various things. And I can't justify that. If I were

543
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: on my own, no freaking way, I would be higher.

544
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: Now I was cleaner to do this, I would do

545
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: it myself. But I just I couldn't. I couldn't justify

546
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: saying I'm sorry, I can't go for a bike ride.

547
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: I got to finish this laundry. I just I couldn't.

548
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't justify that. But it does bother me. My

549
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: kids sometimes have a bit of an attitude about the

550
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: house cleaner didn't do something right or whatever, and I

551
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: don't like that.

552
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 3: I don't that I totally hear you. You are absolutely

553
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 3: justified in hiring a housekeeper. Are your kids absolutely justified

554
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 3: in having one?

555
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: No? I know what a quandary.

556
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: I don't even like to admit that Judy and I

557
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: have a house cleaner, especially because she does not get

558
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: along with our butler at all.

559
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: Two of them. They have a thing going way back.

560
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: There's just no solving it.

561
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: And and Sleeve Boy, my servant who merely buttons the

562
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: little button that's like mid arm that's so difficult to button.

563
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: He hears them bickering and he can't concentrate on his work,

564
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 3: and then I have to punish him.

565
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, just cite a long running joke on

566
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: the Armstrong a Gedddy show. I have known people, you know,

567
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: and it's none of my business. I have known people

568
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: that complain to me about their financial situation and have

569
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: people that do this stuff. And I think, Okay, your

570
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: paycheck to paycheck, you're barely making it. Don't have someone

571
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: clean your house. Maybe do it yourself. But you know what,

572
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: wh he's they're on Michael. I just remember Joe has

573
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: that guy who's a footstool as well. Oh yeah, remember

574
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: the human footstools, right, he's part time.

575
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: He's just during, you know, the latter part of the

576
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: week when I'm getting tired and really need a footstool

577
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: and the adjustable kind of mechanical kind aren't good enough.

578
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: I like to be able to say footstool boy, footstool

579
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 3: boy when it comes.

580
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: With you, backup slightly higher, please, thank you, comes with you,

581
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: whatever room you go into, it's very Yeah, footstool boy.

582
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: We're moving to the den now. Oh my god, that

583
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: is the worst any thoughts in any of this text

584
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: line four one, five two nine KFTC. We are thrilled

585
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: to have you here.

586
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 5: Alcatraz Prison the Rock an infamous symbol of law and

587
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 5: order in American history, and President Trump wants it reopened.

588
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: It could hold anything. This is a terrific facility needs

589
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: a lot of work.

590
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 5: Fox News joined Attorney General Pam Bondi and Interior Secretary

591
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 5: Doug Bergham for an exclusive tour of the rock, now

592
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 5: part of a national park.

593
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 7: Alcatraz Is is the brand known around the world uh

594
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 7: for being a effective at housing people that are in incarceration.

595
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: Pam Bondy and Doug Bergham are both very bright people,

596
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: and to hear them struggling to come up with any

597
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: explanation whatsoever of what they're doing is hilarious.

598
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just keeping it real.

599
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: As the kids say, actually traveled Alcatraz is amazing.

600
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: It could hold anything. She says, actually traveled clear across

601
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: the country, then had to take the boat out Talcatraz

602
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: in San Francisco to vis just a key aspect of

603
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: the question before us.

604
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 4: And.

605
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: Then act like this is gonna happen. Okay, any who

606
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: just came across this story.

607
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: You know, the truth is very briefly, Alcatraz is much

608
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: much more significant as a tourist location than as a prison.

609
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: It was a prison for relatively short amount of time,

610
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 3: and it captures the imagination because it's remote and you

611
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: take a boat ride out there and it's fun.

612
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: I want to talk about CBS firing Colbert. That's an

613
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: interesting one if it was financial and not political. Man,

614
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: the timing shirt certainly doesn't work in your favor for

615
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: that narrative. But I want to talk about this at

616
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: some point. Australia is the first major country clearing the

617
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: path for a social media age checks, or really age

618
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: checks of any kind online that they think will work,

619
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: which obviously you could apply to social media and porn

620
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: and all kinds of different things. Maybe we'll talk about

621
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: that a little bit later. I came across this thread

622
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: I thought was really good. I was actually actually from

623
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Matt Tybee, who we really liked, the journalist Matt Tybee.

624
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: He just said, post your favorite NPR ridiculousness. I love that.

625
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: On the day that the taxpayer funding for NPR and

626
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: PBS got ya, and the mainstream and left is claiming

627
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: like it's some sort of attack on free speech or whatever.

628
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: Good lord. Actually, Tom Cotton, Senator Tom Cotton, Republican, said

629
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: this would be like yanking the funding if there was

630
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: taxpayer funding from bright Bart News and it got yanked.

631
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: Except for Bred, he said, except for Breitbart's closer to

632
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: mainstream than NPR is. I haven't read breit Bart regularly

633
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: in a long time, but NPR is so far out

634
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: there it's unbelievable. Anyway, here's just some examples, people bringing

635
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: up old tweets or whatever. This is probably the biggest one.

636
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: From a couple of years back. The NPR Public editor

637
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: tweeted out, why haven't you seen any stories from NPR

638
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: about the New York Post? Hunter Biden story read more

639
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: in this week's newsletter, in which he said, we don't

640
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: want to waste our time on stories that are not

641
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: really stories, and we don't want to waste the listeners

642
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: and readers time on stories that are just pureist actions

643
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: about the Hunter Biden laptop. Nice job, NPR. Here's one

644
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: from NPR. A new pole finds forty percent of respondents

645
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: believe in a baseless conspiracy theory that the coronavirus was

646
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: created in a lab in China. There's zero evidence for this.

647
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: Scientists say the virus was transmitted to humans from another species.

648
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for that one, NPR. Oh, this is a

649
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: good one that held up well about emojis a while back.

650
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: Some white people may choose to use the yellow thumbs

651
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: up emoji because it feels neutral, but academics argue it's

652
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: actually racist and is trying to get away from your

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Speaker 1: white privilege.

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Speaker 3: Hows an NPR story. People have no idea how hilarious

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Speaker 3: you are.

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Speaker 1: They're the network that says LATINX Armstrong and Getty