Speaker 1: This is Matt Barnes. You're listening to All the Smoke
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Speaker 1: subscribe at the top of the All the Smoke Show
Speaker 1: page on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back, All the Smoke Man,
Speaker 1: coming to you from Dallas. Set the tone with the
Speaker 1: boss man, mister Mark Cuban, And now we got one
Speaker 1: of the greatest to ever do it.
Speaker 2: Jack.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He shot a lot of jumpers in face, both of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got one time.
Speaker 2: We got him.
Speaker 1: Know, we're going to talk about that a little later.
Speaker 1: But man, this is long overdue. I mean, your accolades
Speaker 1: twenty one years, over, thirty thousand points, drank six All time,
Speaker 1: fourteen All Stars, seven MVP Finals MVP, and eleven newest
Speaker 1: member to the Hall of Fame. Congratulations for that. That's
Speaker 1: a great class. We'll get to that a little bit.
Speaker 1: Anything funny happened in that during that Hall of Fame weekend,
Speaker 1: I mean it.
Speaker 3: Was just unbelievable experience. Honestly, my family came, I had
Speaker 3: like one hundred and fifty people from all over the
Speaker 3: world flying in some ex teammates, so nothing really funny.
Speaker 3: You know, me and me and d Wade had a
Speaker 3: little history, so we actually we bonded a little bit.
Speaker 3: That weekend we filmed the podcast for his new new thing,
Speaker 3: and so we actually got into some of the stuff
Speaker 3: really happened in six and eleven and the fake coffin
Speaker 3: they were doing, and so that was probably, uh, that
Speaker 3: was probably the moment I would say, I didn't expect
Speaker 3: that at all. Everything else was amazing, and uh and
Speaker 3: and and just enjoyed every moment.
Speaker 1: Well, you definitely deserved the man hell of a career,
Speaker 1: hell of a run.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Germany recently took gold in the Feeble World Cup. If
Speaker 1: someone told you back in the nineties that this is
Speaker 1: what would be been going on, would you ever would
Speaker 1: have believed it?
Speaker 3: No, no chance. Incredible. I mean basketball's has grown, not
Speaker 3: only obviously in Germany, but all over the world. You
Speaker 3: know of players, international players from all over the world,
Speaker 3: representing you know, MVP type COUNTI players, franchise players. So
Speaker 3: it's been fun to watch where the game has gone.
Speaker 3: When I first got there in their nineties, you know,
Speaker 3: you had a few euros running around, but now every
Speaker 3: team has has a couple and it's been, it's been,
Speaker 3: it's been a pleasure to watch. And you know, Germany
Speaker 3: now is just win a Shuder leading the team. But
Speaker 3: they were super solid. They had some shooters at some
Speaker 3: some some defenders, so I think they they looked incredible
Speaker 3: at it.
Speaker 2: Then.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they're building organizations around European players now, so
Speaker 4: that's that's the testament to how they are developing now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I mean to speak of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: the last five MVPs have all been international player, the Gianni,
Speaker 1: Joic and obviously MB before that, they're only three yourself,
Speaker 1: Steve and Hakem. What do you think has really kind
Speaker 1: of opened up the floodgates to make this NBA more
Speaker 1: of a global game.
Speaker 3: Well, the game has grown, I think that's one thing,
Speaker 3: but make the game more accessible outside the US. And
Speaker 3: then you know, the coach has gotten better and uh,
Speaker 3: I guess uh yeah, and and the you know, the
Speaker 3: NBA has changed, and I think it's when I first
Speaker 3: got leg it was so physical, and you know, the
Speaker 3: fours and fives were all the rebounders. And then once
Speaker 3: the NBA changed rules a little bit. You know, you
Speaker 3: guys were there. They you know, they put in the zone,
Speaker 3: they got rid of the hand check in made it
Speaker 3: a little softer, so to speak. And that's playing right
Speaker 3: in the in the Euros, in the European game and
Speaker 3: in the national game. We grew up playing outside, swing
Speaker 3: the ball, five and five pick and roll game. You know,
Speaker 3: when I first got here, all plays I just got
Speaker 3: called up and then it was ISO. It's just cleared
Speaker 3: the side, you know, and and some some of that
Speaker 3: with the zone, and you can there's other things you
Speaker 3: can do now that that sort of got away from that,
Speaker 3: and it forced teams to move the ball a little more,
Speaker 3: play a little more team game, and that played right
Speaker 3: in our hands. And so that's that's I guess what
Speaker 3: you've been seeing that the game is growing and yeah,
Speaker 3: and the game has has played similar the way it
Speaker 3: is in Europe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's jump back to nineteen ninety eight Hoops Summit,
Speaker 1: where you became on you know, a lot of American
Speaker 1: people's first kind of real glimpse at you. We thought
Speaker 1: we put a hell of a team out there. One
Speaker 1: of our buddies, Ray Young, who works with us isn't
Speaker 1: here today but him, Eric Barkley, Harrington, Richard Lewis, Quinn, Richison,
Speaker 1: Jeron Rush, one of the best players never to make it,
Speaker 1: Stromole Swift, You busted all their thirty three Ray told this.
Speaker 1: They tried to throw every player at you, and nothing
Speaker 1: was working. What was working for you that day.
Speaker 3: A little bit of everything.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That was really my first time arriving in the US,
Speaker 3: and you know, it was during the Final Four at
Speaker 3: the time in San Antonio. I was I was so
Speaker 3: hyped to be there. It was an incredible experience. We
Speaker 3: got to train here in Dallas for a few days
Speaker 3: with the team, and then they flew us down to
Speaker 3: San Antonio for the Final Four. We got to watch
Speaker 3: the two semi finals game with you know, U and c.
Speaker 3: You got to watch Vince Carter and I was just
Speaker 3: so hyped. And then the game was the following morning,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, man, it was just one of
Speaker 3: those days. Had a good start, got a couple got
Speaker 3: to frouline a couple of times that game and just
Speaker 3: you know, helped me settle my nerves and just kind
Speaker 3: of rolled through there and showed it was able to
Speaker 3: show a little bit of my whole repertoire, which which
Speaker 3: I guess was was great. So that was that was
Speaker 3: a fun game. It really honestly, it changed my life overnight.
Speaker 1: That was the next question.
Speaker 3: I mean, my you know, back then there was no internet,
Speaker 3: there was none of that, and so I didn't I
Speaker 3: don't even think I had a cell phone back then.
Speaker 3: So my my parents had had to get an answering
Speaker 3: machine at real college coaches ordering and off the hook,
Speaker 3: I mean all night long, and they didn't understand back
Speaker 3: in the day the time change and right, So I
Speaker 3: mean we had to get an answering machine because it
Speaker 3: was getting crazy. So I was getting recruited from like
Speaker 3: probably forty colleges, and you know, all of a sudden
Speaker 3: I was, I was on the scene, and and then
Speaker 3: people were saying, hey, after that game, you might be
Speaker 3: a lot of a pick. You know, you know, I
Speaker 3: don't think you should be should be going to college.
Speaker 1: And so that had not to cut you off. Had
Speaker 1: that even crossed your mind prior to that.
Speaker 3: Or not a chance? I was looking at colleges and
Speaker 3: then I wasn't even thinking about staying maybe in Europe,
Speaker 3: go to I visited like a Barcelona, like a great
Speaker 3: team in Italy and Milan. I thought maybe I'll go
Speaker 3: pro there a little bit. I have a good competition
Speaker 3: and then maybe if I make it, come on later.
Speaker 3: But you know, like I said that that game change
Speaker 3: changed everything really cool.
Speaker 1: Pissed off the press a little bit because you kind
Speaker 1: of had to do it was right for you, you know,
Speaker 1: by leaving and then obviously you had to leave your
Speaker 1: club to even play in it.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: Can you speak to a little bit of kind of
Speaker 1: what it back home? Although it would change your life
Speaker 1: in a positive it wasn't positive from everyone's outlook.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So there was a tough, tough period because we
Speaker 3: were in the playoffs sort of getting promoted. You know
Speaker 3: in Europe that you're getting get promoted and relegated. So
Speaker 3: we were in the second division at the time, and
Speaker 3: we wanted to go up in the first division and
Speaker 3: we tried for years ever since I started the age
Speaker 3: of fifteen, and every year we're right there and we
Speaker 3: did make it. And that year we had a good
Speaker 3: team and we had a great foreigner. He was amazing.
Speaker 3: At the back of the days you only could play
Speaker 3: with one foreigner on the team. They still had the
Speaker 3: rule in the first division you had too. In the
Speaker 3: in the second division you had won, and he was amazing,
Speaker 3: and so we thought we'd have a great shot at it.
Speaker 3: And then this game came along and my coach at
Speaker 3: the time, my personal coach, Holgar, was like, I think
Speaker 3: you gotta go. We gotta go, but we can't tell
Speaker 3: the team. And so I finished a playoff game that
Speaker 3: Sunday and on Monday morning we drove to Frankfurt and
Speaker 3: flew out and I didn't tell the team, but we
Speaker 3: didn't tell the management, and so of course that didn't
Speaker 3: go well. You know, some of the guys had big
Speaker 3: bonuses on the line. How it is in Europe when
Speaker 3: you actually get promoted, they get paid, and so I
Speaker 3: heard there was some bad blood a little bit. But
Speaker 3: fast forward to come back that weekend. I had a
Speaker 3: good game and the team won the game that I
Speaker 3: was gone. So it ended up being amazing and we
Speaker 3: ended up getting promoted that year. And you know, I
Speaker 3: had a good game, So everything knock on wood worked
Speaker 3: out great. But uh, I heard some of the guys
Speaker 3: who are a little bit a little bit pistle.
Speaker 2: I can't never feel guilty about doing what's best for you.
Speaker 3: I know, but in the middle of the playoffs, I
Speaker 3: guess that's so that's a little tough, but yeah, money, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it worked out. It worked out well.
Speaker 4: So growing up in American culture, movies, rap, basketball, how
Speaker 4: was that?
Speaker 3: Well? I was a big nineties kid, you know, I
Speaker 3: loved Once I started playing basketball, I got more into
Speaker 3: the culture and you know, and and the rap and
Speaker 3: and listen to Woo Tank Lan and I.
Speaker 1: Had all that.
Speaker 3: I had, all that, I had all that in my
Speaker 3: repertoire and I don't know, I love the you know,
Speaker 3: wearing the Jordan shoes and uh and yeah, I just
Speaker 3: try to be a basketball guy. And it was it
Speaker 3: was fun. And then but when I came over, it
Speaker 3: a lot was different and my my language was just
Speaker 3: not quite there. My English show I was really shy
Speaker 3: my first year. You know, they didn't really understand the
Speaker 3: guys in locker room. It's a little different from the
Speaker 3: English I learned at school, and little guys no slang,
Speaker 3: and so I didn't really understand that much. So my
Speaker 3: first year was just kind of trying to learn and
Speaker 3: learn on the fly and pick up all the calls
Speaker 3: on the court, understand the guys off the court. So
Speaker 3: that was probably the hardest transition my year one, and
Speaker 3: it was a lockout year ninety eight ninety nine, so
Speaker 3: we you know, we had like six games in eight days,
Speaker 3: so they threw a lot at me my first year,
Speaker 3: and looking back, it was a very important year, but
Speaker 3: going through it, yeah, sucked.
Speaker 1: Homesick at all during that journey.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I didn't really have that much time. Honestly, there
Speaker 3: were so many games my first year and literally after
Speaker 3: the day of the last game, I was out. The
Speaker 3: next day. I couldn't wait to go home. But the
Speaker 3: break I was it was good for me to have
Speaker 3: Steve nash On, you know, we talked about him early
Speaker 3: Finley was was good for me. I had good two
Speaker 3: for fans that were there for me, that helped me
Speaker 3: and took me out of the hotel room. And I
Speaker 3: was when I was homesick, and they they were big
Speaker 3: for me, book supporters on and off the floor. And
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I would have gone this smooth with
Speaker 3: without them. So they I owe them a lot and
Speaker 3: they're friends for life. We talked to them all the time.
Speaker 3: We see each other. We go on vacation together with
Speaker 3: the kids now, so uh, that's that's that's a tight
Speaker 3: bond before a long time ago, and I'm glad those
Speaker 3: guys were here for me at the time.
Speaker 1: Steve was my VIT when I got drafted.
Speaker 2: So I know, Steve Nash my guy.
Speaker 4: Your name has been dropped one hundred and seven times
Speaker 4: in hip hop songs.
Speaker 2: You have a favorite one?
Speaker 3: I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Someone really did some digging to get that one hundred
Speaker 1: and six. You got a favorite that you can remember?
Speaker 3: No, actually, I can't even remember one that's my name
Speaker 3: was dropped, but I got I got some research that
Speaker 3: that one.
Speaker 1: Hundred and seven times.
Speaker 4: Check that out holder guests you winner man behind the
Speaker 4: scenes will help you get recognized.
Speaker 2: Talk about him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I met him when I was about fifteen
Speaker 3: and just about a good relationship. I mean, he was
Speaker 3: he played in the seventy two Olympics for Germany, so
Speaker 3: he played the game himself and was playing a little
Speaker 3: bit still still at the time, and I was on
Speaker 3: on a youth team and he saw me playing and
Speaker 3: he came up to me after the game and it's like, hey,
Speaker 3: who practiced with you and your skills? And I'm like,
Speaker 3: brill Nobody I didn't know he was. It was just
Speaker 3: some older gentleman and came up to me. So I'm like, nobody, really,
Speaker 3: I just I'm still in high school and you know,
Speaker 3: I played tennis and I played basketball a little bit.
Speaker 3: So he's like, you got you got what it takes.
Speaker 3: You got a good field for the ball, but you
Speaker 3: need to improve in your skills, your shooting and dribbling
Speaker 3: and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, whatever sounds good. So
Speaker 3: the Fall of Fastward. A couple months later, he actually
Speaker 3: showed up at my club and he's like, I would
Speaker 3: love to work with you and help her out. And
Speaker 3: really I had nothing to lose. All I was doing
Speaker 3: was was playing a little bit on the club team.
Speaker 3: And so we started work about once twice a week
Speaker 3: at the beginning because I was still in school and
Speaker 3: I could really see a rapid rapid improvement. He he
Speaker 3: thought outside the box. He had had different training methods
Speaker 3: and I didn't believe in weight training at all. It
Speaker 3: was all body weight training and you know, handstands, and
Speaker 3: I mean some of the stuff has been has been reported,
Speaker 3: but he was he was definitely a different guy. And
Speaker 3: then he came to my parents' house and said, Hey,
Speaker 3: I think he's he's got a lot of talent. If
Speaker 3: he if he if he wants to really go for it,
Speaker 3: you know, we can go for it. But I need
Speaker 3: him all in. And then that's when I quit tennis
Speaker 3: and went all in on basketball and started training, you know,
Speaker 3: every day. And he was my mentor basically my entire
Speaker 3: career and still friends obviously his day. He's almost eighty now,
Speaker 3: but he's doing well. He's still back home in Germany.
Speaker 3: So he helped me a lot in times where, you know,
Speaker 3: especially the first couple of years where stuff that wasn't
Speaker 3: going right, Jumper was gone for two three days straight.
Speaker 3: I'd call him up, he'd be on the plane come
Speaker 3: over the next day. So he helped me through a
Speaker 3: ton and owe him a lot.
Speaker 1: Is he responsible for those spinning shots and the.
Speaker 2: Weird one what shot?
Speaker 3: For sure? He was responsible for all that. I mean,
Speaker 3: he taught me everything, how to shoot, how to move
Speaker 3: the dribble, to play the game. And he always said, listen,
Speaker 3: you might be tall, but you're not the most athletic.
Speaker 3: You're not build strong. He's like, if you just if
Speaker 3: you want to go to the NBA, you got to
Speaker 3: bring something new to the game. And that's why we
Speaker 3: kept working on the jump shot constantly because he's like,
Speaker 3: you know, you're not going to be as athletics as
Speaker 3: the guys at the fours and five spots. You need
Speaker 3: to if you want to get a little bit of
Speaker 3: recognition there or make it, you have to bring something
Speaker 3: else to the table. And so, like I said, that
Speaker 3: was his vision outside of outside of the box, not
Speaker 3: not training like everybody else. And so I was always
Speaker 3: training with face to the basket, shooting three. He's trying
Speaker 3: to one or two, dribbling up, and so that's that's
Speaker 3: how I started to learn how to play the game.
Speaker 3: And so later on then I felt completely uncomfortable. We'll
Speaker 3: get to that series later, but I wasn't comfortable playing
Speaker 3: with the back to the basket at all because all
Speaker 3: my all, my basically ever since I learned when I
Speaker 3: was fifteen, always faced the basket. So that's that's what
Speaker 3: all the stuff that Holbert taught me.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 4: You've already been a big part of the culture because
Speaker 4: of your game, like we all, but when you married
Speaker 4: a sister, you know, you know how much we fell
Speaker 4: in love with.
Speaker 2: You, Brode. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like is that this great way? It
Speaker 1: actually was. It actually was look right there right there.
Speaker 4: Actually yeah, but we real talking about you know, everybody's
Speaker 4: a fan of Dirt with the culture.
Speaker 1: Fell in love with you ten times when we married.
Speaker 1: Such talk about family, yeah, and what that means to
Speaker 1: you obviously you have three kids. Talked to us about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a crazy journey. You know, off the floor,
Speaker 3: made some mistake as well. Uh yeah, well well documented documented. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I ended up being being super lucky and
Speaker 3: I'm ed Jess at like a charity event and a
Speaker 3: bunch of a while ago and then got married like
Speaker 3: right away. We're both ready for for a family and
Speaker 3: shoot we married last year was over to ten years
Speaker 3: or anyway. So three kids now they're ten, eight and
Speaker 3: six and you know, the oldest is a girl. Two boys.
Speaker 3: They're just there starting there. They're journey in sports with
Speaker 3: with tennis and soccer and so it's been it's been
Speaker 3: fun and it makes me super proud of to just
Speaker 3: watch them and it's a fatherhood and being married. It's
Speaker 3: it's been a dream of mine. It's been I'm enjoying
Speaker 3: every minion right now. They're in a great age and
Speaker 3: now I'm obviously done. I'm retired. I have time. I
Speaker 3: don't have a boss. I can go to everything I want,
Speaker 3: and so it's been. We can travel the world, which
Speaker 3: we've done, you know, we have. I'm from Germany, my
Speaker 3: sister and my wife is half Swedish, half Kenyon. So
Speaker 3: we go to Africa, we go to Sweden. So I
Speaker 3: want them to I want our kids to be global
Speaker 3: citizens and you know, speak different languages and travel the world.
Speaker 3: Whatever later on they get thrown into they can handle.
Speaker 3: And so it's been it's been a fun journey off
Speaker 3: the court with them the last couple of years since
Speaker 3: since retirement.
Speaker 1: Love It ninety eight Draft Heavy bibby Antoine Jamison, Vince Carter,
Speaker 1: Paul Pierce to name a few What was your draft
Speaker 1: process like? And did you have to do a bunch
Speaker 1: of workouts? A couple of workouts? How many workouts you do?
Speaker 1: So I did?
Speaker 2: I had it?
Speaker 3: Actually none, I wasn't actually so at the time, No,
Speaker 3: I did. I did one. Well, obviously some NBA teams
Speaker 3: saw me here. And then Donnie Nelson, who was assistant
Speaker 3: coach of the Maps. He was the assistant coach of
Speaker 3: the Hoop Heroes team that we talked about earlier, so
Speaker 3: he's obviously seen me up front and closed for like
Speaker 3: a week, and and then I did a workout for
Speaker 3: for the Boston Celtics, I think for Rick Bittino somewhere,
Speaker 3: and he was in Italyan vacation, and so he saw me.
Speaker 3: I knew Dallas at the sixth pick. I knew Boston
Speaker 3: at the tenth pick at the time, and uh, but
Speaker 3: the rest was kind of up in the air because
Speaker 3: I told everybody I wasn't. I wasn't quite sure if
Speaker 3: I was ready for it.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: I told him I might still pull out. I can
Speaker 3: still go to college, I don't have an agent, I
Speaker 3: can still stay in Europe. So I didn't even go
Speaker 3: to draft. I think our drafted at that year was
Speaker 3: in Toronto. I can't remember Vancouver. I think it was
Speaker 3: in Canada.
Speaker 2: And uh.
Speaker 3: I didn't go to the draft because I thought there's
Speaker 3: no way somebody's actually taken me with with that risk
Speaker 3: of me not showing up and wasted top ten pick.
Speaker 3: And so I stayed in Germany. I trained all the
Speaker 3: way through and got a call in the middle of
Speaker 3: the night or olger My guy got a call from
Speaker 3: donn in the middle of the night said hey, u
Speaker 3: Dal we picked you and we're like what and uh,
Speaker 3: sure enough, Like literally a day or two days later,
Speaker 3: they flew in Donny Flu and Big Nelly, who you
Speaker 3: guys know, I was the coach at the time in
Speaker 3: Rossboro Junior, who was the owner before Cubes. So they
Speaker 3: all came into my hometown of wurtz Berg and hang
Speaker 3: out for a couple of days and got to know
Speaker 3: my family and and they were like, listen, don't make
Speaker 3: a decision with just say no before you I'm seeing
Speaker 3: Dallas and met some of the fellas. So they flew
Speaker 3: me in a couple of days after the draft. They
Speaker 3: got to meet Steve and Mike and some of the
Speaker 3: other players and they were like, listen, we're not a
Speaker 3: great team, we're a young team, we're still growing and
Speaker 3: you know, we're just there's no pressure on you. And
Speaker 3: and then I was like, you know what they they
Speaker 3: think there I could do it, and so I decided
Speaker 3: I'll come. So it was a big step for me.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Of course, coming out of Germany, they haven't really played
Speaker 3: first division yet and so that was a big jump
Speaker 3: from basically the second division of Germany to the NBA.
Speaker 3: I mean it was quite the decision then. And then
Speaker 3: there was a lockout ninety eight so I couldn't sign
Speaker 3: a contract, so that that allowed me to stay in
Speaker 3: Germany a couple almost six more months, got to train,
Speaker 3: got to play First Division from a home club because
Speaker 3: we had just gotten promoted. Those months were important for me.
Speaker 3: I think where I played some you know, some men
Speaker 3: and some had a little better competition every day and
Speaker 3: so and then yeah, summer in January, they called me
Speaker 3: and said the season is saved. And I was like,
Speaker 3: I was secretly hoping that there was the whole season right,
Speaker 3: secretly hoping I can have a whole year to train
Speaker 3: and get ready more and get a little more stronger.
Speaker 3: But sure enough they called me and they saved the season.
Speaker 3: So then I came over end of January. And then
Speaker 3: it was like from February till May, it was like
Speaker 3: a three months crazy whirlwind season. So it was, uh,
Speaker 3: that was wild, but glad it. I'm glad I got
Speaker 3: through it.
Speaker 1: First impression of Big Nelly done.
Speaker 3: I mean, he was a master, mastermind was you know, Honestly,
Speaker 3: I was lucky. I was lucky to get to a
Speaker 3: team where where he was. You know, I think back
Speaker 3: when I got started in the late nineties, there were
Speaker 3: not a lot of coaches that wanted big guys to
Speaker 3: shoot and pick and pop, and sometimes he brought the
Speaker 3: ball up. And you know, if I would have ended
Speaker 3: up somewhere else in another system, or even with Rick Patino,
Speaker 3: who helped me from the full court press, I don't
Speaker 3: think that. I don't think that that would have worked
Speaker 3: well for me. I think so I was in a
Speaker 3: perfect system with with Steve and Mike who supported me.
Speaker 3: So I was. I was really fortunate there and and
Speaker 3: all Nelly was kind of doing was his place was
Speaker 3: super simple. I mean, you guys know, it was a
Speaker 3: high pick and roll. It was fisted up, it was
Speaker 3: a fist side, and then there was these elbow catches
Speaker 3: with some curls around and the rest was let him,
Speaker 3: let him play.
Speaker 1: So process is like the number one offense in the
Speaker 1: league for a lot of different teams. When he ran it,
Speaker 1: it was simple, but it got the job done. You
Speaker 1: were in the golden era of power forwards. Kevin Garnett
Speaker 1: as Him, Duncan, Chris Weber, Rashid Wallace, Been, Baker, Karl
Speaker 1: Malone and Dice Juwan Howard. I know we're forgetting some,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean that's a hell of a That
Speaker 1: was the strongest position in the league, probably outside of
Speaker 1: center at the time. And what was it like for
Speaker 1: you early on?
Speaker 3: Oh man, it was it was tough every night I
Speaker 3: had to bring in and the good thing was on
Speaker 3: my defense. Obviously it was never great in my career,
Speaker 3: but at the beginning it was really terrible. So what
Speaker 3: they were doing is I would even if I would
Speaker 3: end up on one of these guys, they would just
Speaker 3: have me front and so I had to work on
Speaker 3: my fronting. As soon as they crossed, like the little
Speaker 3: free throw line, try to post me. I would just
Speaker 3: try to wrestle my way around them. And as soon
Speaker 3: as they love hit, comes Sean Bradley over in seven
Speaker 3: six and we'll kind of trap them. So that was
Speaker 3: that was one defensive strategy, and the other one was
Speaker 3: just let the fives go out their force and I
Speaker 3: would guard the fives just because you know they're they're
Speaker 3: these guys were so good and they were I was
Speaker 3: a mismatch to all these guys, So you know, it's
Speaker 3: all Nelly coming up with with with defensive things that
Speaker 3: we can kind of get away with with me being
Speaker 3: on the court and stretching the cord on offense and
Speaker 3: and getting away with it on the defensive end. But
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, we still try to outscore,
Speaker 3: you know, Steve on the show, Finn posting off, doing
Speaker 3: his all around game, and I'm running around shooting and
Speaker 3: so as those were some fun years, man, we had
Speaker 3: with Nick van Exell, and we had he was we had,
Speaker 3: we had it.
Speaker 2: We had a good Nick Wood squad.
Speaker 3: So but yeah, the power forward was loaded. And it
Speaker 3: also of course made me better because I knew I
Speaker 3: had to I had to bring my a game every.
Speaker 1: Night every night. Your first season you struggled a little bit.
Speaker 1: Second and third season you started to find your stride.
Speaker 1: You know, forty game, forty wins, fifty three wins. By
Speaker 1: year three you're at twenty two ten and shooting forty
Speaker 1: percent from the three point line, which is unheard of
Speaker 1: because again people your size aren't really shooting threes at
Speaker 1: that time. What clicked?
Speaker 2: Were you?
Speaker 1: What changed?
Speaker 3: Well? It was fortunately my second year. You know, they
Speaker 3: saw I was a little too slow for actually I
Speaker 3: started being a small forward because they knew I can't
Speaker 3: go to any other power forwards, so I started small
Speaker 3: forward and then that was tough to keep up though,
Speaker 3: so that they kind of saw, okay, this is not
Speaker 3: He's not really a small forward in this league, so
Speaker 3: let's try to play him a power forward. And then
Speaker 3: we had a guy named Gary Trent. You guys probably
Speaker 3: remember him. He was an ox so and he played
Speaker 3: amazing for us my rookie year, and then he was
Speaker 3: clearly the starter going in my second year, and which
Speaker 3: was totally fine. I would have come just off the bench.
Speaker 3: And then in preseason he tore his hamstring and so
Speaker 3: basically there were not a lot of other power forwards
Speaker 3: on the roster, so you know, we kind of had
Speaker 3: to make it work, and that's when we came up
Speaker 3: with all these defensive schemes. But then all of a
Speaker 3: sudden my year two, I went from not starting in
Speaker 3: my first year to playing thirty thirty five minutes to
Speaker 3: night and confidence. You know, got to play through mistakes
Speaker 3: and learn from mistakes, and finally my language starting to
Speaker 3: catch up. Now I had a full training camp under me,
Speaker 3: I finally got an apartment in the car, was fully settled,
Speaker 3: so I think all that played in the year two,
Speaker 3: where year one was just so quick, and I mean
Speaker 3: I had a rental car my whole year one. I
Speaker 3: didn't really have time to get settled even so that
Speaker 3: that all played in, felt more comfortable off the floor,
Speaker 3: and then had a lot of playing time, got to
Speaker 3: learn and make some mistakes and they fellas obviously helped
Speaker 3: me with everything. So that that was a big jump
Speaker 3: from year one to year two, and that that year
Speaker 3: two kind of set me up to keep going and
Speaker 3: keep getting better, and that gave me a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1: Real quick, jeffre you go, I want to say, hopefully
Speaker 1: this was you and it wasn't someone else. Did you
Speaker 1: not know how to use the AC in your car?
Speaker 2: That was you? Right?
Speaker 1: I heard a story about that summertime. Tell us about that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, so I have my Year one. I
Speaker 3: just had a rental Rentald car because I was literally here.
Speaker 3: I knew I was here only for three months, and uh,
Speaker 3: and so I was I was coming to Rentald. The
Speaker 3: guys were always killing me when I drop up in
Speaker 3: my little in mini car. And then uh, yeah, it
Speaker 3: was going you know, the season was going longer, it
Speaker 3: was going into May, and it was already getting warm,
Speaker 3: and I'd come to the game and I had a
Speaker 3: couple of sweat drips on my forehead and they're like,
Speaker 3: where are you coming from? You know, you run in
Speaker 3: or something. And one day I'm like, nice, it's always hot.
Speaker 3: I've got to drive with my uh and roll down
Speaker 3: my windows it's so hot. And then something Yeah, but
Speaker 3: they actually showed me. So there's this button that's a
Speaker 3: C and yeah. I didn't have that in my first
Speaker 3: car in Germany, and I didn't have an AC button,
Speaker 3: so I had no idea. I kept, you know, putting
Speaker 3: the fan up, but it was it was blowing warm air.
Speaker 3: So I always came to the game sweaty, and then
Speaker 3: until until upon the a C button and that's uh
Speaker 3: change phenomena.
Speaker 1: I think it's called yogging with the soft j. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's funny, yoggy.
Speaker 2: I gotta see ron Berg. Uh.
Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman had a brief stand here.
Speaker 2: What was that? Like?
Speaker 3: I was wild. I mean, I'm a big Chicago Bulls
Speaker 3: fan in the nineties there obviously, Uh so he was.
Speaker 3: He was one of my heroes. And then you know,
Speaker 3: q S bought the team the second my second year.
Speaker 3: Halfway through and he's like, you know, we need to
Speaker 3: make a splash year. We need to get on the map.
Speaker 3: This is a cowboys town and I want to bring
Speaker 3: the the Mavericks back. I think I'm gonna sign Dennis Rodman,
Speaker 3: who were like, are you serious? But he ended up
Speaker 3: doing it and it was it was quite an experience,
Speaker 3: so he uh every time. So as a team meeting,
Speaker 3: we usually meet with Nelly. Obviously with forty minutes before
Speaker 3: the game. So the first game we have Dennis Robman,
Speaker 3: We're all kind of like excited he's starting, So forty
Speaker 3: minute rolls around. He gets up, Nell's about to start
Speaker 3: the film. Robin gets up and goes take a shower,
Speaker 3: like okay, So he comes back. He didn't see the video,
Speaker 3: he doesn't know the coverages, so he just goes out
Speaker 3: and kind of does Sometimes he squeezes, sometimes he hedges
Speaker 3: a little bit, sometimes he does nothing. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: maybe he just did it one time. Second game, forty
Speaker 3: minutes on o'clock, he gets up in showers, so he
Speaker 3: missed all the pregame meetings before the game and had
Speaker 3: no idea about the coverages that we're doing, and kind
Speaker 3: of did his own thing, and I was like, that
Speaker 3: was just his routine. At forty minutes before the game,
Speaker 3: he was he was showering, and then and then after
Speaker 3: the game, he would just put his own gear on
Speaker 3: and would go lift hard for like an hour and
Speaker 3: a half, two hours. Wouldn't wouldn't, wouldn't be with the team,
Speaker 3: would just be fine, fine to his his his workout
Speaker 3: room and he had his little workout coach, and then
Speaker 3: they were just lifting heavy for like an hour and
Speaker 3: a half after the game. And then you just put
Speaker 3: on a cowboy hat with these long feathers, didn't shower
Speaker 3: and just walked right out the arena. And it was
Speaker 3: and the media scrum with chasing him, and he's and
Speaker 3: he's mumbling something like this. It was a comedy side show.
Speaker 3: And then it just wouldn't work. It wasn't working well
Speaker 3: that those couple of games he was here. But it
Speaker 3: was definitely a splash. I mean, you know that the
Speaker 3: arena was full and he got kicked out of one game.
Speaker 3: He sat on the court for a while and the
Speaker 3: rest didn't want to throw him out. I mean, there
Speaker 3: was a lot of stuff happened, which was a cool
Speaker 3: experience for me. I guess as a young guy growing up,
Speaker 3: but it just basketball wise, it just unfortunately didn't work.
Speaker 1: How did you get your signature move?
Speaker 3: Well, I think I started shooting that later. You know,
Speaker 3: in the twenties, you have the power with somebody's crowded,
Speaker 3: you try to rip through and get the basket, get
Speaker 3: fouled a lot. And just as I gotten older and
Speaker 3: I lost the step, and you know, I didn't want
Speaker 3: to do all the grinding get fouled, so I looked
Speaker 3: for for a shot that I can do with without
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, effort. You know I'm tall.
Speaker 3: It was just one or two bumps and lean back.
Speaker 3: I knew nobody can get to the shot. So that's
Speaker 3: really how I started shooting a little bit at the beginning.
Speaker 3: And you know, of course I had the support from
Speaker 3: the coaches because you know, not a lot of guys
Speaker 3: wanted to shoot a one leg fade away, but you know,
Speaker 3: they saw it go in a little bit, and I
Speaker 3: was practicing it a little bit, and so I started
Speaker 3: shooting and mostly that dead year we actually had the
Speaker 3: championship run and things were going really well there and
Speaker 3: I made most of them. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: this is a good weapon for me going forward, because
Speaker 3: you know, guys was really starting to crowd me because
Speaker 3: I lost is two step or two and then this
Speaker 3: was just a way for me to stay stay efficient
Speaker 3: and and and still be a decent score even in
Speaker 3: old age.
Speaker 1: He's a decent kind of right. Uh oh three, you
Speaker 1: hurt your knee in game for how tough is that?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously changed the series dramatically, uh mentally kind
Speaker 1: of your first injury in the n B A big
Speaker 1: injury in the NBA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was terrible. We were That was the year
Speaker 3: when we had Van Exell and he was he was
Speaker 3: amazing for him to believe we had we had a
Speaker 3: fun crew that year. I still think you guys would
Speaker 3: have been us, honestly. I mean, you guys were were
Speaker 3: so solid and with with Timmy and and everybody. I mean,
Speaker 3: I still don't think even if I'm healthy, we win
Speaker 3: that series. But at least seven, it would it would
Speaker 3: have been It would have been interesting. It would have
Speaker 3: been interesting. I think, like we had such a we
Speaker 3: had such a good run, but they were such a
Speaker 3: jugging out on defense that our offense never really clicked
Speaker 3: the way we wanted it because they were so well coached,
Speaker 3: and you know Timmy in the middle, and so I'm
Speaker 3: not sure he would have beaten you guys, But that
Speaker 3: was brutal to sit there, and I think it was monoil.
Speaker 3: I fell into my knee and I just sprained my knee,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to play so bad the next game.
Speaker 3: And then actually I even went to the pregame workout
Speaker 3: and I looked okay, and that's where actually Nelly and
Speaker 3: Cuban went into it, got into a little bit and
Speaker 3: they were never on the same page again. I think
Speaker 3: Cubes wanted me to play the way I worked out pregame,
Speaker 3: and Nelly was like, listen, he's twenty three longer, long
Speaker 3: career had him, I'm not going to play.
Speaker 2: Him, and.
Speaker 3: So they they didn't see eyda I actually ever since
Speaker 3: after that. So but yeah, going back now, I think
Speaker 3: it was the right decision not to play, because because
Speaker 3: I was so young, and even just standing there watching
Speaker 3: some of the game, I felt my knee was getting
Speaker 3: a little weak and a little sore, and so I
Speaker 3: think it was the right decision not to play. But
Speaker 3: of course it was. I mean, it was tough.
Speaker 2: You put him in the game.
Speaker 4: Play game six because they they were saying he was
Speaker 4: going he was saying he was going to play, and
Speaker 4: it was game six.
Speaker 2: We just knew he was going to play. He didn't
Speaker 2: put that uniform.
Speaker 3: And then we had remember we had Wald Williams. After
Speaker 3: every three he gave a shake and then we were
Speaker 3: up going to fourth like fifteen points, and there comes
Speaker 3: Steve Kerr. I don't know, we didn't have him on
Speaker 3: the on the radar at all, and he came in
Speaker 3: and we obviously trapped Tommy every time down and then
Speaker 3: Steve had like four or five. Hasn't played all year again,
Speaker 3: it was that whole bang game too. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: think he played that playoffs, the whole Steve, I'm not sure,
Speaker 3: but he did. He comes in drains four threes and
Speaker 3: completely changed the game and bright that was. That was
Speaker 3: a tough one and maybe I would have tried to
Speaker 3: play in seven, but well we'll never know. But like
Speaker 3: I said, you guys were I had twenty three that game, Yeah, easy,
Speaker 3: twenty three.
Speaker 2: You was not there.
Speaker 1: So it was cool, oh six up to oh against
Speaker 1: Miami in the finals and d Wade and Sheck company
Speaker 1: come back when you guys and went four straight. What
Speaker 1: was that like mentally.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, there were a couple of low points
Speaker 3: in my career. That was definitely one of them. You know,
Speaker 3: we left here to oh feeling good. The Dallas Morning
Speaker 3: News and newspaper here had the parade route or in
Speaker 3: the paper. Wow, so big enough a jink.
Speaker 1: Can't do that.
Speaker 3: You can't, you can't do that. But we were we
Speaker 3: were kind of going down there. Things are going well,
Speaker 3: we think we're going to win this, and then we're
Speaker 3: still playing well in game three and we were still
Speaker 3: up with like a couple of minutes ago, we were
Speaker 3: we were still up and then uh, you know, we
Speaker 3: ended up losing that game and then things kind of
Speaker 3: just fell apart. I think we're still too young. We
Speaker 3: were quite ready for that stage, and that was really
Speaker 3: that was the way it's coming out party. I mean,
Speaker 3: he was unguardable pick and rolls, getting to the basket
Speaker 3: and starting to make some shots. We couldn't keep them
Speaker 3: in front of us, and so, uh yeah, we ended
Speaker 3: up losing, got blown out in game four. Switched hotels
Speaker 3: before game five. Avery snapped on us after game four,
Speaker 3: it's like too much family here. I went out, So
Speaker 3: we moved somewhere to fund Lauderdale and uh and try
Speaker 3: to stop the bleeding, and then lost a close one
Speaker 3: in game five again and then lost it here in
Speaker 3: game six. So you know, I was I was really
Speaker 3: frustrated disappointed, but honestly I was I was thinking, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm in my prime, I'm ready for this, and
Speaker 3: we're going to be back. We have a good team.
Speaker 3: We're bringing the same team back again next year. And
Speaker 3: uh so I wasn't as disappointed in six as as
Speaker 3: I actually was in O seven.
Speaker 4: But looking back at that though, do you see something
Speaker 4: that you could have switched after game two to make
Speaker 4: that series go indifferently?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 3: like I said, d Wade was incredible that series. I
Speaker 3: don't know if we could have trapped them more trying
Speaker 3: to keep them out the lane, I'm not sure. But
Speaker 3: their role players started to play better too, and and
Speaker 3: you know they had Entin Walker and Gary Payton and
Speaker 3: Posey that that's some good players. And then you know,
Speaker 3: they started to get more confidence after that first win
Speaker 3: and they started to play better, shoot better from the outside.
Speaker 3: You know, Haslam is a great player, always had a
Speaker 3: lot of respect for him. He's probably one of the
Speaker 3: guys that guarded me best throughout my career. So they
Speaker 3: had they had a good team, and so which if
Speaker 3: we finished that game three off with a little more experience,
Speaker 3: I think that then we have it. But since we
Speaker 3: let them, we let them get some life and get
Speaker 3: some they got hyped and and played even harder, and
Speaker 3: then you know that's yeah, the rest is history.
Speaker 1: Next season MVP sixty plus wins. Nelly took this personal,
Speaker 1: like we weren't even supposed to be in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but he said, if we get in the playoffs, we're
Speaker 1: going to play Dallas and we're going.
Speaker 2: To beat him. And that's all I care about life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he quit, I don't quits a big Well,
Speaker 1: he might have checked out after. He didn't give a
Speaker 1: damn after that. So that that season again, Hughes sixty
Speaker 1: five win, sixty seven wins, sixty eight wins.
Speaker 3: Sixty seven seven wins.
Speaker 1: You're the MVP one verse eight. What is your thought
Speaker 1: going into that series?
Speaker 3: Verse?
Speaker 1: Because we actually played you guys well that season, although
Speaker 1: we were out of the mix at the time, we
Speaker 1: played you guys well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So where's and O six. Like I said, I
Speaker 3: wasn't that frustrated. Of course, I was a little disappointed,
Speaker 3: as I was like, I'm in my prime. Next year
Speaker 3: we're coming in where we have the same team. We're
Speaker 3: going to roll. Started season off one to four win
Speaker 3: in a double overtime in Phoenix. We're about to go
Speaker 3: on five and we win and then roll the rest
Speaker 3: of the season. It was just one of those roles
Speaker 3: where like we're on the road somewhere down the fourth quarter,
Speaker 3: just looked at each other and Jet like where we're
Speaker 3: going to We're going to come back with this. We're
Speaker 3: going to get some big starts and we need him
Speaker 3: and we're going to just find some offense and give
Speaker 3: the ball to me and Jet and we'll make it happen.
Speaker 3: So there was We had a crazy amount of confidence
Speaker 3: during that whole season and then here come the Warriors,
Speaker 3: and I didn't we didn't love playing you guys. I
Speaker 3: gotta say it's that was. That was a tough matchup.
Speaker 1: That was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could laugh. I wish I could lay.
Speaker 1: We didn't love playing Yeah.
Speaker 3: I wish I could laugh now you were. You guys
Speaker 3: were a tough matchup for us. Not only did Nellie
Speaker 3: know every every strength of ours since he coached us,
Speaker 3: and he knew exactly.
Speaker 2: What to do.
Speaker 4: Bro, I had tape on you just you your moves
Speaker 4: just up to ut thirty minutes is just your tape, Bro.
Speaker 3: Well, there were a lot of move There was always
Speaker 3: going left. You always said you can only you can
Speaker 3: only go left. No, but you also had a lot
Speaker 3: of teams obviously had the blueprint, but they didn't have
Speaker 3: the personnel to pull it off. Yeah, you guys had
Speaker 3: a small team that always gave me problems and other problems.
Speaker 3: You guys are running in the post. Usually I can
Speaker 3: catch on anybody. We had a tough time getting the
Speaker 3: ball to me. Passed it first of all. Then every
Speaker 3: time I drove one way and I spun where I
Speaker 3: came the trap, he's gonna I like shooting out of
Speaker 3: my spin. So then when I we didn't have a
Speaker 3: great shooting team, or we didn't have a great passing team.
Speaker 3: So both of these things, you guys just just took
Speaker 3: advantage of.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 3: Was it was tough. I couldn't stop the bleeding. I
Speaker 3: didn't I didn't shoot well. I mean that was that
Speaker 3: was probably my worst playoff series. That I've played, and
Speaker 3: all the credit obviously to you guys, And that was
Speaker 3: that was tough. And then I took seven almost harder
Speaker 3: than six, because you know, maybe I had such high expectations.
Speaker 3: We beat the Spurs like three out of four that year.
Speaker 3: In my mind, I'm saying, we're we're winning the championship
Speaker 3: that year, and and I had so much made so
Speaker 3: much pressure on myself, and then maybe maybe I was
Speaker 3: even froze up a little bit too much. I didn't
Speaker 3: play loose against you guys and have fun, and so
Speaker 3: that was that was one of that was one of
Speaker 3: the toughest. I felt like almost embarrassed for for a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks. I didn't want to leave my house.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to go to the m v P
Speaker 3: ceremony take the m v P. You know, usually back
Speaker 3: in the days, the m v P ceremony was during
Speaker 3: the second round, during the pregame. We didn't have a
Speaker 3: game anymore, so I had to put a pseuito on
Speaker 3: and go down there, and it was just it was
Speaker 3: just awkward. I didn't want to be there. So every
Speaker 3: time I see my m v P trophy not at home,
Speaker 3: it's unfortunately in my mind. I think you guys, I
Speaker 3: think all the smoke when I see my my dumb
Speaker 3: did you.
Speaker 1: Throw a chair or something at the wall in Oracle,
Speaker 1: because I've never heard the story how that happened.
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm always I was just pissed off. I'm
Speaker 3: not quite sure how it happened. Somebody said there was
Speaker 3: a trash can, uh, or somebody said it was a chair.
Speaker 3: I don't think a trash can could actually make a
Speaker 3: whole like this, so I can actually can't remember how
Speaker 3: it happened. But yeah, afterwards, somebody said, yeah on the wall.
Speaker 1: And they hung we believe Jersey up next to like
Speaker 1: the masks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was the forever. It was different, which was great.
Speaker 3: I mean, you guys had had a fun team.
Speaker 1: I think you know, with all due respect you winning
Speaker 1: MVP as good as your team, you came back with
Speaker 1: the different You were different the next year though. We
Speaker 1: felt like like we like we helped you, you came
Speaker 1: back a different dirt.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, as it is in life, you have
Speaker 3: to learn from from tough situations, from tough tough moments,
Speaker 3: and I felt like, you know, you guys pushed me
Speaker 3: to be better a little bit with my back to
Speaker 3: the basket. You know, that was I mentioned it earlier.
Speaker 3: I always liked to face, like to drive and then spend.
Speaker 3: It was just a little too predictable. So you know,
Speaker 3: I said, you have to add, you have to add
Speaker 3: more to your game. You have to work hard the
Speaker 3: summer and be be a better be better leader and
Speaker 3: more complete players. So I got a lot more comfortable,
Speaker 3: you know, posting up then, and even if it was
Speaker 3: free throw line or or down the box, and I
Speaker 3: would never even still then I would not out muscle
Speaker 3: you and get to the basket. But I was more
Speaker 3: comfortable there operating in that area and shooting over smaller guys,
Speaker 3: shooting fadeaways. And then one legger came and so I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: you guys forced me to get back in the lab
Speaker 3: and and get better and push and and I always say,
Speaker 3: without the disappointments in O six and O seven, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been the closer and eleven. I think that's
Speaker 3: that's very true. You know, you have to go through
Speaker 3: tough times and and and learn from from some tough
Speaker 3: mistakes and and get better. And so that was you
Speaker 3: guys pushed me to be to be better.
Speaker 1: So eight and ten. You guys are building you bringing
Speaker 1: Jason Kidd tricks, Sean Mary and Pasia Karan who doesn't
Speaker 1: help you get down the stretch run because he gets
Speaker 1: hurt over the big piece. Rick Carlisle as well. What
Speaker 1: did all those pieces being to you?
Speaker 3: So actually when we made I was like, okay, it
Speaker 3: was seven. We still had the best team going to
Speaker 3: A eight. We lose to you guys, but we're we
Speaker 3: won sixty seven games. We're straight, we're good. And then
Speaker 3: the OAIT season started and stuff is just not going
Speaker 3: as well, and it actually shows don't take stuff for granted. Man,
Speaker 3: Sometimes things can change in a heartbeat within one season.
Speaker 3: You know, all of a sudden, we're not right there anymore.
Speaker 3: We're not with the best team. All of sudden, teams
Speaker 3: have passed us by. And then our window from six
Speaker 3: and seven all of a sudden looked closed. And so
Speaker 3: things were going well at all in the wait season,
Speaker 3: and then we did the trade at all set game
Speaker 3: for Jake Kidd. We felt like his leadership is is
Speaker 3: you know, like I mentioned earlier, weren't great passing. We
Speaker 3: were on great, great playmaking. We had some good scores
Speaker 3: at the guards, but not not getting everybody involved playmakers,
Speaker 3: and so we made the deal for j Kid at
Speaker 3: the All Set game and and that didn't pan out
Speaker 3: that we wanted to at the beginning either. So they're
Speaker 3: in eight to ten. There was there were a lot
Speaker 3: of changes. You know, we still had Avery when when
Speaker 3: Jay Kidd first came, and then you know, Carla took over,
Speaker 3: I believe in the eight or nine season. Then we
Speaker 3: did the big trade with with Washington to bring in
Speaker 3: Haywood d Steve, who was crazy and uh and uh
Speaker 3: of course Karan and so they fit in well, and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, there the windows open again.
Speaker 3: We felt like we had a good team. We had
Speaker 3: some veterans and yeah, and going into that you know,
Speaker 3: ten to eleven season, we felt like we had a
Speaker 3: good team. I don't think we were necessarily favorites, but
Speaker 3: we felt like we had some veterans and we had
Speaker 3: a good start to the season. And then I got
Speaker 3: hurt right around Christmas time, and then so I was out.
Speaker 3: I was hurt, and then New Year's Day. I'll never forget.
Speaker 3: We're in Milwaukee, that's where Karan is from, and I'm
Speaker 3: sitting out in a suit because I'm not playing, and
Speaker 3: Kuran goes for rebound and just screams and lays on
Speaker 3: the ground and I'm so, we're all rushing over there,
Speaker 3: and I see literally he tore his patel attendant and
Speaker 3: his his kneecap had dislocated, so it sat and sat
Speaker 3: on top on his skigh. I'm like, I'm trying to
Speaker 3: dry heath. It was. It was nasty, and so our
Speaker 3: trainer was like, oh my god, we need wheelchair, wheelchair
Speaker 3: And that was one of the toughest things I was saying.
Speaker 3: I mean, Kuran, it's pretty tough. So he heard wheelchair
Speaker 3: and he's from Wisconsin. His grandmother was there, his family.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm not I'm not getting out of here
Speaker 3: in a wheelchair. So he's like I watched him push
Speaker 3: his kneecap down by himself and he gets up and
Speaker 3: starts hopping. You know how in the old Milwaukee Arena
Speaker 3: that was to go back to the locker room, and
Speaker 3: he walked that on his own power. I said, this,
Speaker 3: this guy, this guy is built different. And uh but
Speaker 3: then you know, here we go again. We think in
Speaker 3: our our windows closing, you know, losing up. He was
Speaker 3: probably our second best Scar. I think he was our
Speaker 3: second best scorer that year, and so we're like, oh god,
Speaker 3: here it goes again. Right, It's just a bunch of
Speaker 3: bad luck. And but I would say that he he
Speaker 3: motivated us, inspired us the way he wanted to come
Speaker 3: back and fought and attacked rehab. I mean he was
Speaker 3: almost ready to play in that in that final series
Speaker 3: in eleven. I mean he was. He was a beast.
Speaker 3: And every day watching him, how he how he handled himself,
Speaker 3: how he attacked that rehab, that that really motivated us,
Speaker 3: and that that inspired us for that ten to eleven run.
Speaker 4: Blazers Lakers, okay see Miami, twenty eight points were gained,
Speaker 4: forty nine percent field goal, forty six throw line gee
Speaker 4: Woolakers took down Kobe kat and Lebron. We call that
Speaker 4: as you know, on one, he was definitely on one.
Speaker 4: Well what mind frame will you win?
Speaker 3: We had a good run, you know, I started. We
Speaker 3: started against Portland. They they gave us some problems. Yeah
Speaker 3: that Marc roy b roy still they had they had
Speaker 3: a good team, they were they were smart. Uh, and
Speaker 3: so we didn't play the well there we almost lost
Speaker 3: one at home and I took us We get took
Speaker 3: us well to get going, and then I felt like
Speaker 3: we lost both both games in Portland and it was
Speaker 3: it was too too coming back here. And that's still
Speaker 3: I remember to this day. I was like, we're not
Speaker 3: going to lose to them. We're not going to lose
Speaker 3: Game five on our home court. And I don't know
Speaker 3: why I said that to I usually don't say much
Speaker 3: in the team meetings and stuff. I'm a quiet guy.
Speaker 3: Let the coaches do their thing. But that day, I'm like,
Speaker 3: even in the pregame meeting, I was like, there, they're
Speaker 3: not beating us. Where we got that.
Speaker 1: You know what they do your teammate to hear Dirk
Speaker 1: say that, you just in the back of the locker room, Quill, But.
Speaker 2: They ain't beating us today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody, you know. I just felt that. I just
Speaker 3: felt that because in Game four we were up like
Speaker 3: twenty and b Roy made that magical run and they
Speaker 3: beat it, and I just had that that's not going
Speaker 3: to happen again. And so and then from there we
Speaker 3: started a role. We started a roll. We won game
Speaker 3: five at home, beat them in game six, went straight
Speaker 3: down to LA and stole a miracle Game one where
Speaker 3: Kobe was like hot at like forty, I think it
Speaker 3: could seem like he couldn't miss, and we basically stole
Speaker 3: that one at the buzzer and from there, I don't know,
Speaker 3: we just we just got confidence was getting better and
Speaker 3: we had the roles were defined perfectly right. You had
Speaker 3: you had Tricks and Kid and Tyson. They were the
Speaker 3: defenders right on offense. We knew Jet and I and
Speaker 3: JJ we were going to wheel and deal and do
Speaker 3: our thing, and obviously we had some shooters, but I
Speaker 3: felt like we're our roles were perfectly defined, and we had,
Speaker 3: you know, a great bench that we can change the
Speaker 3: tempo a little bit. So, uh, I don't know. It
Speaker 3: was just a magical time. We had Paga that we
Speaker 3: signed some in February. I think he got bought out
Speaker 3: in Toronto and we took a chance on it. He
Speaker 3: did it look like he could play with his back,
Speaker 3: and he rehabbed for two three months every day and
Speaker 3: then gave us unbelievable ron there. I made some huge
Speaker 3: shots in the Lakers and Oka C Series, and so
Speaker 3: everything that we did that year kind of panned out,
Speaker 3: and I know it's fortunate.
Speaker 1: I guess you guys ended up getting to the top
Speaker 1: of the mountain on a hell of a journey. Were
Speaker 1: there ever times Cube talked about it at some point
Speaker 1: in your career, trying to get Paul Pierce, trying to
Speaker 1: get Kobe. Was there ever a time you possibly thought
Speaker 1: about hitting the market or possibly playing for someone else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so I four years, was the rookie deal,
Speaker 3: and then basically right right in the my last year,
Speaker 3: I believe on my rookie deal, I signed a max deal.
Speaker 3: I signed just you know, the same deal at Vince
Speaker 3: signed back in the days, and Paul we signed a
Speaker 3: six year deal. And then I wasn't titularly hit free
Speaker 3: agency until my tenth year in the league. So it
Speaker 3: was I think I was free agents there in twenty
Speaker 3: ten and right before actually the championship year, and you know,
Speaker 3: I didn't want to go anywhere. I loved it here.
Speaker 3: It's been ten years, but you know, do you think about, hey,
Speaker 3: are we ever going to get back to the stage.
Speaker 3: And so I went to since I really didn't have
Speaker 3: an agent. Hold girl was helping me with some of
Speaker 3: that stuff, but I didn't have an agent, So I
Speaker 3: just went over to Mark's Houston. We sat down on
Speaker 3: his couch and you know, just reminisced and talk for like,
Speaker 3: you know, two hours on what we've done and how
Speaker 3: fun this run was. And I said, okay, let's let's
Speaker 3: run it back.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 3: Both got a little emotional talking about their old days.
Speaker 3: And then I ended up signing that four year deal,
Speaker 3: and then we ended up winning the championship and in
Speaker 3: year one and so it's yeah, it worked out perfect.
Speaker 3: And then of course I knew I wasn't going to
Speaker 3: go anywhere after winning the championship. That would have been
Speaker 3: the only reason to go somewhere at the end to
Speaker 3: chase something or maybe chase a ring. But since since
Speaker 3: we got it done here, I never I never had
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 1: Luca. Uh, he came in your last season, extremely talented.
Speaker 1: We talked about off camera, Jackson, did you see this?
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know if we saw to this extent,
Speaker 1: but he's been special. What is your relationship with him like?
Speaker 1: And what what how's it been just being able to
Speaker 1: see him play night in, night out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when once we uh, my my end of
Speaker 3: career wasn't pretty. You know, we're struggling. There was some
Speaker 3: talk of tanking going on and you know, just things
Speaker 3: didn't go well here for this franchise, and uh and
Speaker 3: we we needed a little spark block to change things.
Speaker 3: And uh and here I didn't. I didn't think that
Speaker 3: was gonna be this kid. I didn't think it's gonna
Speaker 3: be this kid. When he walked in the first time
Speaker 3: here in this practic facility. You know, he looked at
Speaker 3: his sick. He's a big boy. But I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: not sure this is gonna work. Is he quick enough?
Speaker 3: Is he athletic enough to go by guys like he
Speaker 3: is in Europe? And so there were there were plenty
Speaker 3: of doubts there from from everybody on the team. And
Speaker 3: you know how you meet already before training camp starts. Uh,
Speaker 3: you know, you meet a month before and you hoop
Speaker 3: every day and you work out together. And so guys
Speaker 3: were trying to test him a little bit and you know,
Speaker 3: foul him a little bit here and there, and their
Speaker 3: scrimmages and and you can already see that this kid's
Speaker 3: got something about him. He's got that swag, he knows
Speaker 3: how to play. He was he was getting some in
Speaker 3: one mixtape, passes out of nowhere, And I'm like, he
Speaker 3: was he was flashing some of the talent. So we
Speaker 3: were we were we were thinking, man, he's he's going
Speaker 3: to be a really good player. But I didn't think
Speaker 3: he was going to go to that level mass right,
Speaker 3: I mean he's a couple. Yeah. I think it was
Speaker 3: last season or before he averaged triple double for an
Speaker 3: entire month. I mean, I didn't see that coming. So
Speaker 3: in my first year, unfortunately, my last my last year,
Speaker 3: his first year, I was I was hurt a lot.
Speaker 3: I missed the first thirty forty games, so I didn't
Speaker 3: really get to spend you know, I didn't even go
Speaker 3: on road trips the first couple of months, so that
Speaker 3: was a little tough. I didn't really get to spend
Speaker 3: as much time around him as I wanted to. But
Speaker 3: I mean that was his time to shine. You know.
Speaker 3: We looked to him and he you know, he took
Speaker 3: the ball and took it from there. And yeah, just
Speaker 3: really proud of how he developed and my role with him.
Speaker 3: I guess we're friends. We're cool, we're you know, when
Speaker 3: I'm town, we go to dinners or whatever. Mentor would
Speaker 3: be a little strong because he doesn't really need me.
Speaker 3: I mean he's as you guys see, he plays like
Speaker 3: a thirty two year old veteran, how he reads the game,
Speaker 3: how he carries himself on the court, And I mean
Speaker 3: I didn't really I wish. I would love to say
Speaker 3: I helped him and talk to him about it, but
Speaker 3: it's just the guy just came. He's been a pro
Speaker 3: since he's like eleven years old, and that's how he
Speaker 3: plays the game like there's nothing can rattle him during
Speaker 3: the game and he just does his thing. And so
Speaker 3: his his development has been incredible, and I didn't think
Speaker 3: he could get better from year to ear, but he's
Speaker 3: still showing it and I'm super happy for him.
Speaker 4: How you do anything is how you do everything. That's
Speaker 4: cute saying talk about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Mark obviously has been a big influence
Speaker 3: on my career and my life as well. Uh he
Speaker 3: bought the team in my second year, and we've developed
Speaker 3: a great friendship and relationship and uh he was always
Speaker 3: my number one supporter when stuff was going right. Uh
Speaker 3: even off the floor, he was there helping me out
Speaker 3: with stuff and uh so he was a big influence
Speaker 3: for me and he was always loyal to me. So yeah,
Speaker 3: we've we've had a great friendship. I mean, I say
Speaker 3: this all the time, how many owners go to their
Speaker 3: best players bachelor party in Vegas? But he was there.
Speaker 2: A bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we had a special bond and relationship and
Speaker 3: and so yeah, and that's at the beginning. He was
Speaker 3: literally so fired up when he bought the team. He
Speaker 3: was at every practice, at every road game, he was
Speaker 3: sitting in the players sections, on the on the plane,
Speaker 3: and so he was he was constantly around. And his
Speaker 3: energy and and you know, his savvness is the way
Speaker 3: he cares himself kind of also obviously carried over to
Speaker 3: the team. So he was he was a big influence
Speaker 3: on being on the Mavericks sport.
Speaker 1: He said something that kind of surprised me when he
Speaker 1: said when he first got the team because it was
Speaker 1: new to him. So he said, guys like you and
Speaker 1: Steve and Mike kind of helped him learn the ropes
Speaker 1: and what it's like in the locker room and how
Speaker 1: players like things and and it was refreshing for me
Speaker 1: to hear, because you think, someone who's got a bunch
Speaker 1: of money and this is my team or my way.
Speaker 1: He was more really almost like a player's owner, so
Speaker 1: to speak, as far as kind of getting to really
Speaker 1: know what you guys like and dislike.
Speaker 3: He yeah, he changed everything, you know, and when when
Speaker 3: I first got here, you know, we were doing the
Speaker 3: bare minimum. We were staying you know, Marriotts and all that,
Speaker 3: and we had the flight flights that everybody had, those
Speaker 3: old planes. And then he was like, okay, we need
Speaker 3: to change some stuff around. I want to I want
Speaker 3: to put I want free agents to come here and
Speaker 3: look at Dallas is the spot to be. And so
Speaker 3: he just started to turn everything around. Money at that
Speaker 3: point at the beginning didn't matter at all. He bought
Speaker 3: a new plane, he built a new arena. We started
Speaker 3: to stay at these nice hotels. We started have good
Speaker 3: catering after we didn't have any food my first.
Speaker 2: Team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we started that. He wanted to show basically the
Speaker 3: visiting teams, hey, you know, we take care of you
Speaker 3: guys here. It's just a little imagine what it's like.
Speaker 3: He just planning a little seed, you know, Hey, hey guys,
Speaker 3: we will take care of you guys here. So and
Speaker 3: so he was just like I said, resources were not
Speaker 3: the problem. He put everything in and he took care
Speaker 3: of his players and he took him made that trade
Speaker 3: with Washington when we got jrew On where we took
Speaker 3: a bunch of money back and it cost us a
Speaker 3: ton of money or him obviously, but he showed him
Speaker 3: I'm willing to pay whatever I wanted to win, and
Speaker 3: so that was a fun atmosphere I think for for
Speaker 3: US players to be around. And I always say I
Speaker 3: had a fun time playing my twenty one years, But
Speaker 3: those first couple of years when when you're part of something,
Speaker 3: you're turning it around. We were garbage for for a
Speaker 3: whole decade in the nineties, and then slowly, surely Steve,
Speaker 3: Mike and I we get better. We turn things around.
Speaker 3: You see that, you know stuff is happening. People get
Speaker 3: excited in the city. Those are some of the best
Speaker 3: years I had in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Really dope.
Speaker 4: I was always I was almost your teammate in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 4: Oh no almost, So we heard you beat up the trade. Thanks,
Speaker 4: I must have betailed that.
Speaker 1: Before. Obviously, thank you for your time. Before we get
Speaker 1: to these quick hitters. Obviously, when you're in the mix
Speaker 1: and you're almost on the Hampshire Wilder in your career,
Speaker 1: you never get to kind of sit back and appreciate,
Speaker 1: you know, what you've accomplished. You know, you've been removed
Speaker 1: for a handful of years now, like when you look
Speaker 1: back on your career, like what what do you think
Speaker 1: about when comes to your mind?
Speaker 3: It's been a heck of a ride, and it's very
Speaker 3: fortunate obviously to be here and being staying in one
Speaker 3: spot and you know, staying solarty, stay sort of you know,
Speaker 3: injury free throughout my whole ride. So it's been, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's been. I was blessed and it's one of an
Speaker 3: incredible ride. And to me, topped it off this summer
Speaker 3: with with the Hall of Fame. I think now to
Speaker 3: me that that was sort of the closure. My first
Speaker 3: half of my life is over with this and couldn't
Speaker 3: have gone any better, honestly, you know. So I'm extremely
Speaker 3: happy and of course proud, and my family is super
Speaker 3: proud of out of Germany, I was able to play
Speaker 3: in the NBA for twenty one year. It's been a
Speaker 3: hell of a ride. And we'll see what the next
Speaker 3: chapter looks like.
Speaker 4: Now, how does it feel to be the best European
Speaker 4: player ever?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, now it's gonna be tough, you know,
Speaker 3: to keep that are yeah, keep that up? Now with
Speaker 3: the with the generation that we have coming now. I mean,
Speaker 3: but it's it's yeah, it's it's if before me there
Speaker 3: was some fun European players like shremp was one of
Speaker 3: my idol songs from the Josh and Petrovitch was a
Speaker 3: stud Kukach. I mean there there were great players. And
Speaker 3: then you know, if if if I came in and
Speaker 3: Tony Parker Gasol, if we came in and sort of
Speaker 3: helped these other guys now a little bit, or inspired
Speaker 3: them in a way or motivated them in a way,
Speaker 3: that that's that's obviously thrilling and humbling to hear. So
Speaker 3: if we were part of somebody else's journey, and that's
Speaker 3: that's been amazing. And now we have you know, j
Speaker 3: and jokerchen.
Speaker 2: Bro on the back.
Speaker 1: Bro you killed in the NBA for a long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was a yeah, it was a long time.
Speaker 3: But like I said, it's been so many opened the
Speaker 3: door for me. And if I pushed the door open
Speaker 3: it even a little wider, then that's that's humbling.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: Well, quick hitters, first thing to come to mind, let
Speaker 1: us know and we'll get you out of here. The
Speaker 1: biggest risk you've ever taken.
Speaker 3: No question, coming to the NBA, coming out on you though,
Speaker 3: coming out of the second division in Germany, I mean
Speaker 3: that was that was a wi I'll move, but I
Speaker 3: ended up ended up working with pretty well.
Speaker 2: For you, you have an it? What's your guilty pleasure?
Speaker 3: I'm a big food guy. Ice cream, I mean, are
Speaker 3: not good?
Speaker 1: Not good? Worst piece of advice you've ever heard.
Speaker 3: Worst piece of advice, I'm not sure. Yeah, nothing, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Just to see yourself as a work in progress. Really,
Speaker 3: always keep improving, never be satisfied. Uh you know. I
Speaker 3: always see yourself as a as a learning guy, even
Speaker 3: now in life. Try something new, try to learn different things.
Speaker 3: Never see yourself as a finished product.
Speaker 2: Dallas mavericks all time. Starting five.
Speaker 3: With me or without me, with you, I mean, I
Speaker 3: played with some some stuff, so I'm gonna have to
Speaker 3: go probably a small lineup. Snashy is obviously one of
Speaker 3: my best buddies. He is the one Jake Kidd Hall
Speaker 3: of Famer. He played the two. He can guard the
Speaker 3: two's now they can both handle the ball. My guy,
Speaker 3: Finley is was play the three. I mean he helped
Speaker 3: me so much growing up and he wasn't He was
Speaker 3: basically the man when I got here, and then I
Speaker 3: mean there's a lot of guys if I if I
Speaker 3: played the four, then there's a lot of guys for
Speaker 3: the fifth spot, you know, like a Jets or I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: this Nick Vannox. That was amazing for us those couple
Speaker 3: of years he was here. Yeah, that's that's a tough one.
Speaker 3: But it's a really small lineup. But those those are
Speaker 3: probably my four or five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how good with Josh Howard.
Speaker 3: I love Josh. Love Josh. You know, he played with
Speaker 3: a chip on his shoulder because he he was pissed
Speaker 3: off that he was drafted so late. You know, he
Speaker 3: thought he had a great couple of years there at
Speaker 3: Wake Forest and then he dropped almost you know, into
Speaker 3: the first round and what I'm gonna show everybody? And
Speaker 3: then that's how he approached every game. He was going
Speaker 3: at people's necks, and we love that. He was our defender.
Speaker 3: He was long, he was versatile, and I love Josh.
Speaker 3: He's still around here. I've never thought he'd be he'd
Speaker 3: get into coaching because he was at times, i'd say
Speaker 3: a little a little tough to coach. Uh, he's coaching
Speaker 3: some college around here. So I run into him every
Speaker 3: now and then, and apparently he's great and they love him,
Speaker 3: and but I didn't see I didn't see Stack becoming
Speaker 3: the coach either. I say some of these guys were
Speaker 3: a little tough on their own coaches then, but okay
Speaker 3: now now they now they head coaches.
Speaker 1: Childhood crush, oh Shore childhood crush.
Speaker 3: And I mean the nineties. I mean it was a
Speaker 3: little Kim Foxy exactly exactly exactly see what else.
Speaker 1: She was und picture this.
Speaker 2: I'm having one of those moments. Yeah, something you wish
Speaker 2: you were better at mm hmm.
Speaker 3: In life or something anything, maybe a better communicator in life.
Speaker 3: I think I take a lot of stuff in in myself.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't love sharing my feelings too much.
Speaker 3: And I know over over my my life that's driven
Speaker 3: my career, my my family nuts a little bit. So
Speaker 3: I wish I was communicating my feelings a little better.
Speaker 3: I think that's that's that's that's one that's I need
Speaker 3: to work on.
Speaker 1: That's me and period period five dias dead alive.
Speaker 3: I mean, i'd say Michael Jordan obviously, I mean he
Speaker 3: was he's my hero, is my goat always. I'd say
Speaker 3: mommad Ali Oh and then there's a there's so many
Speaker 3: greats out there.
Speaker 2: Just because you was at Cubans.
Speaker 1: We asked him by his pipe, he had you at
Speaker 1: his table.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's sweet. I would not have him on my table.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go. I was a big tennis guy, so
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with Roger Federer. Yeah, I mean, unbelievable,
Speaker 3: A big, big tennis fan. Growing up. I was a
Speaker 3: big Boris Becker fan. So that's four mainly sports and
Speaker 3: the fifth do uh maybe Tiger Woods?
Speaker 2: Nice, that's a table. If you could see one guest
Speaker 2: on our show, who would it be?
Speaker 1: But you have to help us get your answer on
Speaker 1: the show. Can't be shy?
Speaker 3: Okay, who hasn't been on the show.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, excuse me?
Speaker 3: Okay, you guys trying to get Luca.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said Luke, I ain't. I wouldn't even know
Speaker 1: what she was going to say.
Speaker 3: Well, we'll see. He is still in the phase you
Speaker 3: know where he's a little shy.
Speaker 1: You know, you've been there.
Speaker 3: I came here, and you know, sometimes if it's just
Speaker 3: English the second language, you're almost a little you're scared
Speaker 3: to say something wrong. Yeah, and then and then I
Speaker 3: think he's already gotten a little looser in interviews from
Speaker 3: his first year or first two years, so I think
Speaker 3: eventually he'll get there. We'll have some fun with you, guys,
Speaker 3: it's just not.
Speaker 2: This is the show to let loose on though.
Speaker 1: It's a show the funk up we understand anybody Well,
Speaker 1: Dirk Man, we want to thank you for your time.
Speaker 1: Obviously you're busy, but also just give you your flowers. Man,
Speaker 1: Obviously everything you did for this franchise, but the league
Speaker 1: and you know obviously the international influx now of talent
Speaker 1: and like you said, if you kicked it open a
Speaker 1: little bit, but we know you kicked it open a lot.
Speaker 1: But man, it was a pleasure to battle against you
Speaker 1: and want you play. And congratulations on just the career
Speaker 1: and the family and everything.
Speaker 2: Man, well deserve. I appreciate you. Bro.
Speaker 1: That's a wrap. The one and only Dirk Newiskey. He
Speaker 1: can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform.
Speaker 1: Black Effects