Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, this is the R & B Money Podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'm your host, Jay Valentine.
Speaker 2: And today... I got a brother.
Speaker 1: On here I've been chasing down. And, you know, I
Speaker 1: just had to figure out if this is where he
Speaker 1: wanted to be or not. Because, you know, this is
Speaker 1: a special talent.
Speaker 2: I went online. I'm just going to tell y'all this.
Speaker 1: I went online and made a post saying, this man
Speaker 1: had one of the greatest R & B albums of
Speaker 1: all time. And I stood on that. I'm fighting people.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I had to fight. Because if
Speaker 1: you understand R & B music, This is part of
Speaker 1: the essence of what we do. I got a great
Speaker 1: brother all the way from Chicago that pulled up on
Speaker 1: me today.
Speaker 2: Listen, man, and he fresh off that Versus. My brother,
Speaker 2: y'all brother, Donnell Jones. What's up, my brother? Come on, man.
Speaker 2: Come on, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, I've been chasing
Speaker 2: you down, dog. What's up, man? For a couple years.
Speaker 2: What's up, man? I'm glad I'm here, man. This is beautiful, man.
Speaker 2: For real, man. Man, thank you, bro. Yes. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, bro. This is an honor for me. Man.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: There are artists that are just part of my DNA
Speaker 1: and are part of, really, my livelihood.
Speaker 2: Thank you, brother. That have made music that has really
Speaker 2: resonated with me, man. I appreciate that. For real. Bro,
Speaker 2: you're special. Thank you, brother. You're special, man. And I
Speaker 2: appreciate you pulling up on me, man. Thanks for having me, man. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: How you doing, man? Man, I'm great, man. I'm great.
Speaker 1: You know, like you said, just came off that Versus, man.
Speaker 1: It was amazing, man. You know, to celebrate with my
Speaker 1: brother Joe, man.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And, man, just beautiful, man. I'm happy about the
Speaker 2: state that R & B is in right now, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So we like to do this thing, man. We like
Speaker 2: to go back. Okay. We like to go back to
Speaker 2: young Donnell. Okay. Little Donnell. Okay. Chicago, man. Take me back.
Speaker 2: Take me back to Chicago, man. Chateau, man.
Speaker 1: I was in a group, man. My group was called Porsche, man.
Speaker 1: We did a lot of shows around Chicago.
Speaker 2: Porsche. Porsche. Huh. Okay. The reason why I don't... Not
Speaker 2: Porsche like... Not like the car. Not Porsche. No, not Porsche.
Speaker 1: We had a manager at the time and her last
Speaker 1: name was Porsche.
Speaker 2: Oh, so you. And so we called the group Porsche.
Speaker 2: You dealt with some shit that I dealt with as
Speaker 2: a kid. Oh, yeah. So I was in a group
Speaker 2: with my brothers called the Neutrons. Right. Which was my
Speaker 2: father's name. Okay. Backwards. Right. So, yeah, you was in
Speaker 2: somebody else's group. Yeah, we was in somebody else's group. Right, right, right.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Porsche. Yes. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1: So, man, we had the mad shows around Chicago, man.
Speaker 1: We had, we did shows with Art Kelly and Public Announcement.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of groups back then, so. We
Speaker 1: never could get signed, man. We never could get signed.
Speaker 1: How old are you at this point? At this time,
Speaker 1: I'm maybe 15, 16.
Speaker 2: Okay. You're a baby. Yeah, I'm about 16. I'm working
Speaker 2: at McDonald's.
Speaker 1: How I meet the group is I'm coming in McDonald's
Speaker 1: every day and I'm singing while I'm flipping my burgers.
Speaker 1: And the manager, he was like, yo, man, I like
Speaker 1: how you sound, man. You should try for our group.
Speaker 1: So I went to try it out for the group, man,
Speaker 1: and they put me in the group.
Speaker 2: They could hear you on the grill. Man, they could
Speaker 2: hear me on the grill, man. Man, I need to
Speaker 2: walk into more restaurants to see if I can find.
Speaker 1: The next Donnell Jones, man. They could hear me on
Speaker 1: the grill, man. You know, I'm flipping and, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm singing, man. And, yeah, man, he heard me.
Speaker 2: He was like, yo, man, you should come try out
Speaker 2: for the group. So I tried out, man.
Speaker 1: They put me in the group, and we just started
Speaker 1: doing a lot of shows around Chicago.
Speaker 2: How many guys? It was four. Four-guy group.
Speaker 1: This was around the time that, you know, like, Jodeci
Speaker 1: and Boyz II Men like mad groups out at that
Speaker 1: particular time Shy you know so it was that time
Speaker 1: and it was an amazing time in R & B
Speaker 1: man like what kind of music were y'all making obviously
Speaker 1: it was R & B music but like what kind
Speaker 1: were y'all like y'all Jodeci vibe aggressive it wasn't aggressive
Speaker 1: we was more on that that fairytale love okay you
Speaker 1: know where you're giving us the sun the moon the
Speaker 1: stars yeah yeah that kind of that's what we were
Speaker 1: on at that time but you said y'all couldn't get
Speaker 1: a deal couldn't get a deal man I mean we
Speaker 1: was in Chicago like It was only like one record
Speaker 1: company in Chicago that you could really get a deal from.
Speaker 2: And that was a lot of job records that they
Speaker 2: had an office there. But R.
Speaker 1: Kelly was already signed to that. Public Analysis was there.
Speaker 1: So we really couldn't get it there. So what happened
Speaker 1: was one year we went to.
Speaker 2: The BRE. It's called the Black Radio Explicit Convention. It
Speaker 2: was in Washington, D.C. at the time.
Speaker 1: I think it was like 94. And we had a showcase,
Speaker 1: but nobody came to the showcase.
Speaker 2: So we was in that joint like, man, like nobody came.
Speaker 2: You could hear a pin drop.
Speaker 1: So we went outside the hotel the next day and
Speaker 1: was like, yo, man, we're just going to sing for
Speaker 1: anybody who walk out. You know what I'm saying? And
Speaker 1: Eddie F happened to walk out, man. He was like, yo, man,
Speaker 1: I like what y'all brothers doing. Don't sing for nobody else.
Speaker 1: I'm going to sign y'all, you know, so y'all can
Speaker 1: just walk away. You know, don't, we ain't listen. Cause
Speaker 1: it's like, whatever, man, he just talking. But he actually,
Speaker 1: he came back and was like, yo, man, I'm telling y'all,
Speaker 1: I got y'all. So when you first, when it first
Speaker 1: kicks off for you, it kicks off with, with the
Speaker 1: group though.
Speaker 2: So he signs. He signs the group. Yeah. He signs
Speaker 2: the group. So did you.
Speaker 1: Initially, obviously, I know you wanted a deal, but were
Speaker 1: you apprehensive at all that you were signing to a hip-hop.
Speaker 2: DJ, producer?
Speaker 1: We just wanted to get signed. We were signing to, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then, not to mention, we knew Eddie F's work
Speaker 1: because he had just did the stuff with Intro. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so we knew, like, he knew exactly, like, what
Speaker 2: to do. Right. And we had a sound, but I
Speaker 2: knew going.
Speaker 1: With Eddie F, he was going to give us a
Speaker 1: different type of sound, which was going to be hip-hop
Speaker 1: and R & B. And at that time, Jodeci was out,
Speaker 1: Mary J. Blige was out, so music was changing. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? And we needed that type of vibe.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, he was fully a part of that. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you signed as a group.
Speaker 2: He signed as Porsche. Yeah, he signed as Porsche. Obviously.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the group ended up breaking up. I mean,
Speaker 1: so what happened was when we got with Eddie, we
Speaker 1: went there, man, and he was doing an album called
Speaker 1: Let's Get It On, the Untouchables compilation.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: And so we worked with this producer by the name
Speaker 1: of Dave Hall.
Speaker 2: Absolutely know who Dave Hall is. Dave Jam Hall. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did all Mary J. Yes, sir.
Speaker 1: And so he did a song for us. And at
Speaker 1: that particular time, we were all in his crib. We
Speaker 1: all stayed at Eddie's house. And the guys got into
Speaker 1: a fight, man. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: The group. The group.
Speaker 1: He had like maybe 15, 16 artists living in his
Speaker 1: crib at the time.
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, what?
Speaker 1: He had about 15 or 16 artists living in his
Speaker 1: house at the time. Eddie did. We all living together,
Speaker 1: making this album, making this music.
Speaker 2: It's going to be some fights.
Speaker 1: Man, so they ended up breaking a big-ass hole in
Speaker 1: his wall, man.
Speaker 2: So he was like, man, you know what?
Speaker 1: Everybody got to go home. He sent everybody home. And
Speaker 1: about a month later, he called me. He was like, yo, man,
Speaker 1: I want you to come back. I'm doing some work
Speaker 1: for this young kid called Usher. I want you to
Speaker 1: come back and write some songs. He knew I was
Speaker 1: a songwriter. came back, man.
Speaker 2: And, um, she wrote for us. And that's what think
Speaker 2: of you came from. Yeah. Think of you came from that,
Speaker 2: that situation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I did another song on the album called, uh, you
Speaker 1: took my heart and that was with Eddie, but I
Speaker 1: think if you was with puff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, uh, this is all around, all around the
Speaker 2: same time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: All around the same time. I ended up staying out
Speaker 1: there for a little bit. And this is now in,
Speaker 1: this is now, yeah, this is our journey. Well, that,
Speaker 1: that area, that area.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: He led right across the bridge. So, so I ended
Speaker 1: up doing some songs. Um, On my first album, I
Speaker 1: did In the Hood. I did Yearning and another song.
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, go home and get your group
Speaker 1: to sing these songs with you, man. I'm going to
Speaker 1: get y'all a deal. So I took the song.
Speaker 2: This is what Eddie says. Yeah. He's like, go home.
Speaker 1: I'm going to send you back home. Because when I
Speaker 1: was in New York, I was working. I was just
Speaker 1: writing songs and I had songs for the group. So
Speaker 1: I played them for him.
Speaker 2: He was like, yo, man, go home. Record those songs
Speaker 2: with the group. I'm going to get y'all signed. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I went home, played the songs for the guys. They
Speaker 2: didn't like them. So.
Speaker 1: I went back. I said, man, they ain't really messing
Speaker 1: with the songs. He was like, all right, fuck it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get you a deal.
Speaker 2: And that was it.
Speaker 1: So that is the breakup of the group is that
Speaker 1: they just didn't like the music.
Speaker 2: They didn't want to do it. So were you always
Speaker 2: the main writer for the group?
Speaker 1: No, it was me and another guy in the group
Speaker 1: by the name of Tobar, rest in peace. And he
Speaker 1: wrote a lot of songs with me as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So now you go back to Jersey. So now
Speaker 2: I go back to Jersey. And I tell Eddie, like.
Speaker 2: How did you feel about being a solo artist? I
Speaker 2: wasn't the lead singer of the group. Okay. And so, like,
Speaker 2: being a solo artist. You was ducked from the fire heartbeat.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I mean, I got some parts,
Speaker 2: but I'm not the lead singer. Right. The guy told
Speaker 2: about what the lead singer, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: They not playing my music right.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'm like, damn, man, like, it kind of
Speaker 1: put me in a position where, like, damn, man, like,
Speaker 1: it's all me now.
Speaker 2: Like, I got to be in the front. That took
Speaker 2: some getting used to. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It took some getting used to, man, because that wasn't
Speaker 1: what I wanted. But I wasn't going to turn it
Speaker 1: down either.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Like, I was going to take whatever was in front
Speaker 1: of me at that particular time. A potential record deal
Speaker 1: or flipping burgers?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, record deal. Record deal. I'm taking it. Yeah. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1: That's how that group thing ended. When you get back
Speaker 1: to Jersey with Eddie F., how long does it take
Speaker 1: to get to LaFace? Well, I had already did the
Speaker 1: record for Usher. That was already on the radio and
Speaker 1: stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So L.A. and them, they were kind of familiar with
Speaker 2: my work. As a writer. As a writer.
Speaker 1: I think probably maybe like six, seven months it took.
Speaker 1: Because we ended up writing some other songs. And he
Speaker 1: set up a meeting with L.A. Reid. And we went
Speaker 1: to Atlanta. And I think I played him Yearning. And
Speaker 1: I think I sung a natural thing to him on
Speaker 1: my first album.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, bro, man, just come back with
Speaker 1: a finished album. We're going to sign you, man. That's
Speaker 1: how it went.
Speaker 2: Had you done... A publishing deal or anything before that?
Speaker 2: I had a publishing deal before. Because I'm like, you
Speaker 2: got a record on the radio. I know it's a
Speaker 2: publishing deal. I had a publishing deal. I had a
Speaker 2: publishing deal. That was already locked in. Did you get
Speaker 2: a couple dollars? You like to give me the R &
Speaker 2: B money, man.
Speaker 1: Look, this was in the 90s, so the money wasn't
Speaker 1: that good. It was good for a young brother in
Speaker 1: Chicago that really didn't have nothing. But if I look
Speaker 1: back today, it was like peanuts, man.
Speaker 2: Come on, man. You got to tell us the number, man.
Speaker 2: What'd you sign? What'd I sign for? What's your first deal? Ooh, ooh, ooh.
Speaker 2: That hurts to even say it. It's like $ 70, 000, man.
Speaker 1: Listen, man, they gave me $ 35, 000.
Speaker 2: That went to my pocket. It was for $ 75, 000.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was for $ 75, 000, but they only gave me
Speaker 1: $ 40, 000 up front.
Speaker 2: See? That's another $ 30, 000. I was with you, man. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to tell you. We all went through this shit.
Speaker 1: But, I mean, when I took that check home, man,
Speaker 1: I showed that check to my father, but he was like,
Speaker 1: he was like, where'd you get all this money from?
Speaker 1: My father had never seen a check like that. Your
Speaker 1: father was a gospel artist, right? Yeah, well, he was
Speaker 1: a gospel singer. He really didn't, him and his brother
Speaker 1: did a lot of gospel singing back in the days,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Really didn't do it professionally, but yeah.
Speaker 1: So him seeing that off music, he like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we up. Yeah, he was like, man, my pop should
Speaker 1: be like, look man, it didn't work for me, it
Speaker 1: ain't gonna work for you. I don't even know why
Speaker 1: you putting this time into it. You know, that's kind of,
Speaker 1: he was like that. You know, you gonna get a job,
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of, Until he saw that check.
Speaker 1: He was like, I think you need to go back
Speaker 1: to New York, son.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: How did it feel your first time you heard Think
Speaker 1: of You on the radio?
Speaker 2: Like the five heartbeats? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Speaker 2: And to be like, yo, man, I couldn't believe it, though.
Speaker 2: Those are my words.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? It was just amazing, man,
Speaker 2: just the feeling of it. Yeah. Just to be in
Speaker 2: that environment, man. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm
Speaker 2: seeing Puffin on TV, Biggie on TV, and now I'm
Speaker 2: in a room with him.
Speaker 1: Now I'm in these places where I see these people
Speaker 1: and I'm working with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? So that alone was amazing.
Speaker 1: I just knew at that particular time I'm on the
Speaker 1: right track.
Speaker 2: Did you identify that Usher was a star then? I
Speaker 2: knew it, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, he had the charisma, man. I mean, real
Speaker 1: playful at a young age. But, I mean, his work
Speaker 1: ethic was, like, amazing, man.
Speaker 2: He was... Which is still what... Yeah, man. He wanted it, man.
Speaker 2: He's at the highest level. Yeah, he really wanted it, man.
Speaker 2: You could tell. That's dope, man. All right.
Speaker 1: So now, okay, you got your publishing deal. Got a
Speaker 1: couple dollars in your pocket. You got enough to survive.
Speaker 2: Enough to survive. Enough to survive. At that time, I
Speaker 2: got three kids already. Wait, what? I'm 19, 20. I
Speaker 2: got two kids already. Well, you jumped off the porch early. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: We was already in. Okay. It was already in.
Speaker 1: And that's something I was going to bring up as
Speaker 1: well that I actually was going to tell you, man,
Speaker 1: that I really respect. about how you've carried yourself in
Speaker 1: your career. Donnell Jones, the artist and Donnell Jones, the
Speaker 1: man in the real world are completely.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. People and people don't know your business. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Like quiet, man. I'm the guy.
Speaker 2: I think that's cool. I appreciate that. I think that's cool.
Speaker 2: Cause I didn't know you had two kids by 19.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Already. That was already, I was off the porch. Okay.
Speaker 2: Real Chicago. Yeah, man. Real Chicago.
Speaker 1: So yeah, man, like, like, Yeah, I came into business
Speaker 1: with two kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it was important
Speaker 2: for me to get out here and make it happen.
Speaker 2: To get to it. Yeah. So now, y'all go back,
Speaker 2: make the album. So we go back. With no deal, though.
Speaker 2: With just the, when y'all make it, y'all gonna get one. No,
Speaker 2: you talking about... With LaFace. For LaFace.
Speaker 1: No, so when I get with LaFace, I played them
Speaker 1: like three songs. And they like, yo, man, go make
Speaker 1: an album, come back, I'm gonna put you out. Did
Speaker 1: he give you guys some bread? So they signed us.
Speaker 2: Okay. They signed us. But I'm already signed to Eddie's.
Speaker 2: To Untouchables. Yeah. So, I mean, it's Untouchables LaFace at
Speaker 2: this particular time. Okay. Now y'all got a label partner.
Speaker 2: Now we got a label partner. And so we go
Speaker 2: back and we record the album, man.
Speaker 1: And this is when hip-hop and R & B was like.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did a lot of sample records. Fire, yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, so our goal at that particular time was
Speaker 1: to be the male version of Mary J.
Speaker 2: Blige.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the sign we were going for. And
Speaker 1: I think we accomplished that on the first album because
Speaker 1: that's that's the sound. Why do you think or is
Speaker 1: there a reason that Charlton go to Uptown?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It probably would have been a great because his relationship
Speaker 1: and he's already there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: speak for Eddie, but I think that, you know, he
Speaker 1: wanted to. build his own thing, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: And do something outside of the system. I'm going to
Speaker 1: get Eddie on here. Eddie, you know, I've been calling you.
Speaker 1: He can answer that better. I think he wanted to
Speaker 1: do something outside of that, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: to get his own thing started. Sometimes you can do
Speaker 1: some things in-house and you just want.
Speaker 2: To be outside. For sure.
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes when people are too familiar with you,
Speaker 1: they don't really fully see your genius.
Speaker 2: True. That's true. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: I think it goes, I mean, you know, it kind
Speaker 1: of goes back to I always wondered when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I'm like, wow, you know.
Speaker 2: Warren G is not on Death Row. That's crazy. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? You would think so. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or even, most people don't realize this, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: you realize because you were on this label, Babyface was
Speaker 1: never signed to LaFace.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, too. That's crazy. He was never signed to LaFace.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, yeah. Yeah, the fact that, you know, like
Speaker 2: a Babyface is not signed to LaFace. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's wild, but you start thinking about how, like, okay,
Speaker 1: people sometimes are like, oh, well, I'm going.
Speaker 2: To take this here. Right. Don't put all your eggs
Speaker 2: in one basket. It'll make more sense over here.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: The focus will be different. Mm-hmm. You know? And you
Speaker 2: were early, LaFaith. I was. I mean, I was. Well,
Speaker 2: I don't... It would have been a couple years. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: They weren't like an established, established... I mean, they had...
Speaker 1: They had Outkast. They had Goody Mob, Usher, TLC, Tony Braxton.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? So they had the bulk
Speaker 1: of everybody who was there. They had another artist by
Speaker 1: the name of Sam Salter.
Speaker 2: Of course. They had.
Speaker 1: I wrote I Like Them Girls... Obviously, it ended up
Speaker 1: on Tyrese. I wrote it for Usher.
Speaker 2: Really? Sam Salter ended up cutting it when Usher's, because L.A.
Speaker 2: wanted the record.
Speaker 1: And he wanted the record so bad, they wanted to
Speaker 1: keep it in-house, that then Sam ended up cutting it. Wow.
Speaker 1: And then it ended up, like, something happened with Sam's project,
Speaker 1: and then it ended up on Tyrese.
Speaker 2: That's crazy. Records used to go around like that, though,
Speaker 2: back then. A couple times. So that was good. It
Speaker 2: was the first ever Underdog record.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: The first ever Underdog record.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, and I'm very familiar
Speaker 2: with Sam, man. Rest in peace. Amazing guy. Amazing guy.
Speaker 2: So now you got the first project out. For you.
Speaker 2: Are you still in the mindset of, I'm really just
Speaker 2: a writer. This is not.
Speaker 1: What I really want to be doing all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be singing and having to go
Speaker 1: do interviews by myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm in that mindset.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like being in front of the camera and
Speaker 1: being on stage and all that because I get to
Speaker 1: be somebody else.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: But my heart is in the studio, writing and coming
Speaker 1: up with ideas and trying to be creative. You know, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a struggle. But I got to the point,
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I can't have one
Speaker 1: without the other. Because for me, what it's grown into
Speaker 1: is I love to be able to create something and
Speaker 1: then go out and see how people really feel about it.
Speaker 2: It's like I.
Speaker 1: See the baby being born and see it all the
Speaker 1: way up until, you know, you send it off to college.
Speaker 2: Right. You know. Yeah, I just took my son to
Speaker 2: college last week, bro. My daughter's going too, man. It
Speaker 2: was tough. Yeah. It was tough. Yeah. This is your first.
Speaker 2: I was stuck in it out, too. I thought I was.
Speaker 2: I thought I was, but then my baby girl, he
Speaker 2: had to drop him off. He let her see me
Speaker 2: like this. Just look straight, nigga. Look straight. Don't, don't
Speaker 2: blink too hard. One came down. Don't blink too hard. Ooh, man.
Speaker 2: I should have thought to you, man. I ain't gonna,
Speaker 2: I ain't gonna hold you. I did. I did. That's
Speaker 2: what's up.
Speaker 1: But you know, like you said, you, we're, we're, we're
Speaker 1: taking our, our babies into, you know, putting them in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And music is the same way. So I completely understand that, man.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like the first project was what you
Speaker 1: wanted it to be as far as just even from
Speaker 1: the acclaim that it got or the success that it got?
Speaker 1: How did that feel for you at the time? I
Speaker 1: thought it could have been more successful. I appreciated the
Speaker 1: fact that LaFace gave me the shot. I just don't
Speaker 1: think we had enough marketing dollars in the budget to
Speaker 1: really do what I felt needed to be done. done
Speaker 1: with that particular project but they gave me the shot
Speaker 1: yeah you know i'm saying i was very happy with
Speaker 1: that i think that musically the album was another great
Speaker 1: album it was yeah it was a really good album
Speaker 1: and you're celebrating this year yeah it's my 30 man
Speaker 1: yeah it's.
Speaker 2: Been 30 years wow bro 30 years man i.
Speaker 1: Mean time flies man i mean like damn this shit's
Speaker 1: like 30 years makes me look old feel old you
Speaker 1: know nah bro we young bro I'm telling you, man,
Speaker 1: still moving fast. Whose idea was it to do knocks
Speaker 1: me off my feet for you to remake that record.
Speaker 1: It wasn't nobody's idea, man. I was produced by the
Speaker 1: name of Darren Winnington. He needed some, somebody to sing
Speaker 1: it for him, for his producer reel. Cause he was
Speaker 1: trying to get work. He was like, yo, I just
Speaker 1: want people to hear what I'm doing, man. So won't
Speaker 1: you come over and sing the song for me? And I,
Speaker 1: his wife sang it to me and I sang it
Speaker 1: to the, to the, to the recorder. Just like she
Speaker 1: sang it to me.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And had no idea it was a Sleepy Wonder song,
Speaker 1: even though I'm a Sleepy Wonder fan. At the time,
Speaker 1: you didn't even know. That particular song, I didn't hear.
Speaker 2: Okay. You had so many. It can do that to you.
Speaker 1: And so I ended up doing the song, man, and
Speaker 1: Eddie heard it. He was like, yo, bro, this got
Speaker 1: to go on your album. I'm like, yo, what y'all doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then LA heard it. They was like, yo, man,
Speaker 2: this is it. The Accident record became the biggest record
Speaker 2: off that project. Really? Yep. That's crazy. That's how that happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, boy.
Speaker 1: It is, you know, if anybody's been in this business
Speaker 1: long enough, things like that happen all the time.
Speaker 2: It'd be the last record you write. Right. The one,
Speaker 2: you know. Yep. So, you get this project out. You
Speaker 2: don't feel like it hit the way you want. Nah.
Speaker 2: What's your mindset going into, Your next project.
Speaker 1: My mindset is, because I'm a little bit upset at
Speaker 1: the fact that we didn't do better.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But what made it good was that we did enough
Speaker 1: to make them give me another shot.
Speaker 2: Right. Because sometimes you don't get a second shot. Man, listen.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Get that first one and
Speaker 2: it's over. Yeah. So we did well enough for them
Speaker 2: to give us another shot, man.
Speaker 1: And my mindset going into this next project was, let's
Speaker 1: try to make it where every song could possibly be
Speaker 1: a single. That's not even played with this record, man.
Speaker 1: Every song needs to sound just as good as the
Speaker 1: last one we did. And that was the mindset going
Speaker 1: into it and that's what we set out to do. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go ahead and say congratulations because
Speaker 1: you accomplished that.
Speaker 2: Man, that's what we... That album, man. I told you,
Speaker 2: I'd be fighting. The fight ain't even a strong fight
Speaker 2: for me because most people agree with me on that one.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I think You know, I
Speaker 1: go a little wild sometimes when I start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it is this. All right, bro. I get it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, because where I want to be, bro, is.
Speaker 1: It's just at such a high level for me.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that, man.
Speaker 1: You know, and listen, I've had conversations with people that
Speaker 1: share remain nameless, but people that were a part of,
Speaker 1: you know, that whole world.
Speaker 2: I'm like, listen, it's the greatest album ever that came
Speaker 2: out of the face. Wow. Wow. It's my opinion. And
Speaker 2: you know, to be honest with you, man, it, it,
Speaker 2: and they go, they're going to attack me. Some people
Speaker 2: are going to attack me. It's cool. It's fine.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is, you know what, man? Like I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe when our LA say that LA said that too.
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, that just, that says a lot, man, especially
Speaker 1: with him being involved in so many projects on that
Speaker 1: particular label, man. I mean, for him to say that, man,
Speaker 1: I mean, that, that was really touching to me, you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. No, bro. Like, come on. You know what?
Speaker 1: I'm just going, I'm a, I'm a, you know, we're going,
Speaker 1: we're going to go through it. We're going to really
Speaker 1: go through it, man. Um, We're going to get to
Speaker 1: where I want to be.
Speaker 2: Okay. Because that one we got to really dissect. Okay.
Speaker 2: But we're going to start with You Know What's Up. Ah, man.
Speaker 1: That record right there, man. When I heard the track,
Speaker 1: I was like, man, this record is so dope.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But it wasn't called You Know What's Up. Okay.
Speaker 1: It was called something else at the time. It was
Speaker 1: called When You Hear the Car Horn Blow.
Speaker 2: What? That's what it was called. That's what it was called.
Speaker 2: It's literally what it was called. That's what it was called.
Speaker 2: When You Hear the Car Horn Blow. Blow. Yeah. And
Speaker 2: it wasn't, you know, it was cool, but it wasn't,
Speaker 2: you know, what's up.
Speaker 1: And I think Eddie knew that when we started doing
Speaker 1: the demo for it, I know he kind of knew
Speaker 1: that I wasn't really into it because I wasn't really
Speaker 1: giving it my all.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was like, no, no, no, we got to get
Speaker 1: something that really fits him. So they went back in
Speaker 1: and rewrote it a couple of times.
Speaker 2: Oh, it needed rewrites. Yeah, it needed a couple of times. Okay.
Speaker 2: And then they ended up with, you know, what's up, man.
Speaker 2: And that was it. So the fun fact of Anthony Hamilton- Yeah.
Speaker 2: Being a writer on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: This is back in his uptown days. Yes. Obviously. Yep.
Speaker 2: And my brother Belay with Muhammad. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1: Bro, I'm like, I didn't know that he was a
Speaker 1: co-writer on it, Anthony, until he came on the podcast. Yep.
Speaker 2: Anthony was definitely in the room, man. No way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 2: But he originally probably was part of when the Carhorn came.
Speaker 2: I can't even say it. When you hear the car
Speaker 2: horn blow. Man. No, guys. No. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: a no.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Because we ended up going
Speaker 1: back and rewriting it a couple of times, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so we got it right. And no, some records
Speaker 1: take that, man. Some records take for you to go
Speaker 1: back in and redo it again.
Speaker 2: Now, y'all got it right. You did it. We got
Speaker 2: it right. I got it all the way right. Y'all
Speaker 2: got it all the way right. And then, so y'all
Speaker 2: cut it.
Speaker 1: And that was the last song we did on the album. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the very last song we did on the album.
Speaker 2: Another jam. Yep. When does Left Eye become a part
Speaker 2: of the record? Left Eye.
Speaker 1: Because obviously it wasn't from the jump that y'all was
Speaker 1: just going to do a record together. Left Eye becomes
Speaker 1: part of it. I think now they want to put
Speaker 1: the record out. They're doing their white labeling, sending it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And they were like,
Speaker 2: but we need something for the mix shows. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? We ain't got nothing for the mix shows. yo,
Speaker 2: who we going to get to get on this joint?
Speaker 1: And I guess Eddie flew down to Atlanta and they
Speaker 1: brainstormed and came up with Lisa, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And she went in there and did her thing.
Speaker 2: She went crazy. Yeah. She went crazy, bro.
Speaker 1: And then, you know, I think what helped it too
Speaker 1: was the fact that they had just came off of that,
Speaker 1: you know, where she had burned Andre House down.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And it was real big.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And she jumped on that record and they just,
Speaker 1: It just, all the chaos and everything that was involved,
Speaker 1: it just made it bigger. Like the marketing you had
Speaker 1: always been looking for. Man, exactly, man. And it worked out, man.
Speaker 1: It really worked out.
Speaker 2: Did y'all have a chance to perform the record together?
Speaker 2: We did.
Speaker 1: We did the BET Awards. We did, no, not the
Speaker 1: BET Awards. We did the Soul Train Awards.
Speaker 2: Okay. And then we also did the Mobile Awards in London. Okay.
Speaker 2: That is really dope. Okay, so you know what's up?
Speaker 2: Shout out to Darren Lighty. Eddie F. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: The producer's on it. Brother, man.
Speaker 1: Shorty got her eyes on me. We've been talking since two.
Speaker 1: What you going?
Speaker 2: Listen, sometimes you have to put it on the table
Speaker 2: and say, hey, listen. What you doing? I'm going to
Speaker 2: get up out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And either you coming with me or you not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you better do something because. We've been talking a long time. So,
Speaker 1: were you, are you in the mode with these songs
Speaker 1: where it's, this is your life? Was it that for you?
Speaker 2: We live in it. Yeah. We live in it.
Speaker 1: This was written and produced, co-produced with Wes and Eric Williams.
Speaker 2: Okay. From Blackstreet. Yeah, yeah. And... Kyle West? No. Oh, what?
Speaker 2: You said... Wes. Produced by the name of Wes. Oh,
Speaker 2: produced by Wes. Okay, okay. Because I know Kyle West. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: Kyle West. I worked with him. Yeah, yeah. So we
Speaker 2: got in the studio. We in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: And it just happened. Tommy Martin was the guitar player.
Speaker 1: He's a really good guitar player.
Speaker 2: He's got a guitar.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that legendary cover. Right. You're on
Speaker 2: the stool with a guitar. Yeah, man. And this is
Speaker 2: a very guitar-heavy album. Oh, yeah. You wasn't playing the guitar. No.
Speaker 2: And you don't play the guitar. I don't play the guitar.
Speaker 2: It may appear like I play the guitar. I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: that's Donnell. When Donnell get on that guitar, it's crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And we weren't going to say nothing otherwise. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: We were going to let everybody feel like they want
Speaker 1: to feel or think what they want to think.
Speaker 2: But no, I wasn't playing any of it. The cover
Speaker 2: feels very Chicago. Yeah, man. It feels very Chicago. Like,
Speaker 2: when I look at it, I'm like, oh, yeah, he
Speaker 2: from the shot. Yeah, yeah. It was intentional, man. It
Speaker 2: was intentional. We wanted it to look like blues, like
Speaker 2: an old blues shot, you know? Yeah. And we accomplished that, man.
Speaker 2: It was fun doing it. And yeah, man, I remember.
Speaker 2: Because you actually play piano. Yes. Yes. You didn't want
Speaker 2: to sit at the piano? No, man. That guitar shot
Speaker 2: was just everything. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That was great, bro. That is great. Okay, so Shorty
Speaker 2: got eyes on me. Talking to his two, what you
Speaker 2: going to do? All right. Have you seen her? Have
Speaker 2: you seen her? Now, that is Eric Williams and Wes.
Speaker 2: They did that.
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with that record, but the vibe, man.
Speaker 1: It's just one of them records, man. You can just
Speaker 1: sit back, man, and close your eyes and visualize a
Speaker 1: video without even seeing it. You know, it was the
Speaker 1: storytelling and the way he did it, man, was just immaculate.
Speaker 1: And the fact, though, too, is that you being a
Speaker 1: songwriter and a producer, that you were open-minded enough to
Speaker 1: be like, listen, if.
Speaker 2: A record is great, it's great. I got to cut this. Man,
Speaker 2: that's how I am, though.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I don't do nothing on the album
Speaker 1: and I got a whole bunch of dope-ass records, I'm, yeah,
Speaker 1: I take that over anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because, I mean, it's not about me doing everything or
Speaker 1: me doing it. I just want the end goal would be, man,
Speaker 1: let's get the best records we can get. Like, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who do it. I just want the fans
Speaker 1: to be happy. Made the fans happy, bro. I appreciate that, man,
Speaker 1: for real. We knew exactly what we wanted to do,
Speaker 1: but nobody knows what, you know, what people in the
Speaker 1: world gonna think, you know.
Speaker 2: This love. This love.
Speaker 1: Oh, man, co-produced with, with Sheldon Good, man. I mean,
Speaker 1: another great guitar player, man.
Speaker 2: I made a lot of matches together.
Speaker 1: He came in with that, with that, that guitar lick, man.
Speaker 2: And I mean, it was, Amazing, brother.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then, you know, lyrically, I was living it.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Do you mind if I
Speaker 1: take this seat right here? I mean, it was just
Speaker 1: that time in New York was like that. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? We'd be going to the tunnel. We'd
Speaker 1: be partying.
Speaker 2: It's almost every night. And life was like that, man.
Speaker 1: Once you get there, you stay in New York. I
Speaker 1: stay in New York. You know what I'm saying? I
Speaker 1: left Chicago in 1995 when I officially moved.
Speaker 2: Yeah. To New York. Because everybody else on the label
Speaker 2: was pretty much in Atlanta. Yeah. But I mean, but see,
Speaker 2: Eddie was from New York. Right. I was on his
Speaker 2: squad up there. Yeah. And so, you know, we just
Speaker 2: come down to Atlanta, you know, and just, you know,
Speaker 2: come down and play our records and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But we we lived in New York. Yeah. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: that's why the vibe feels like that too. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Very hip hop.
Speaker 1: I think that you guys, like, in my opinion, is it,
Speaker 1: the marriages from R & B and hip hop, it's
Speaker 1: absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Absolutely perfect, man.
Speaker 1: Like, and you can, like you said, now that you
Speaker 1: explained it to like, man, we at the tunnel every
Speaker 1: other night, we partying, we, Man, we really live in
Speaker 1: this life. And that's something that I have conversations with
Speaker 1: artists now where they're just like, oh, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: I get stuck in the inspiration. So let's go outside.
Speaker 1: Go go live life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Go get rejected. Yeah. And that's why, you know,
Speaker 2: some people say, why it takes so long for you
Speaker 2: to come out with albums. Because I got to live.
Speaker 2: You got to live. I got to go through some
Speaker 2: things first. You know what I'm saying? I got to
Speaker 2: have something to talk about. Yeah. Sometimes you got to
Speaker 2: go run up on a girl where you know.
Speaker 1: You punching above your weight class and get that rejection.
Speaker 2: Right. Or you'll be like, oh, shit. Yeah. Or she's
Speaker 2: going to go with you. You know what I mean? Right.
Speaker 1: But you got to have those experiences when you're creating
Speaker 1: this music, man, because.
Speaker 2: The people are experiencing life. Yep. And there are more
Speaker 2: people going through what you're going through than you think. True.
Speaker 2: That is so true.
Speaker 1: Instead of, you know, And as a writer, because, you know,
Speaker 1: I've gone through it as well, where you're just trying
Speaker 1: to write the most poetic, you know, make people have
Speaker 1: to think about it, the double entendre metaphor.
Speaker 2: Right. Other than just being like, hey, man, you know
Speaker 2: what's up. Yep. Yep. I mean, the simplest.
Speaker 1: Because I think, man, I think the reason why simplicity
Speaker 1: works so much is because it's like, you know, you
Speaker 1: don't have to think about it too much.
Speaker 2: And some of the best songs have been like ABC. Yes.
Speaker 2: You know, just the one, two, three. Yeah. It's very simple.
Speaker 2: Sing along. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You got to do music, man, that people can sing
Speaker 1: along to.
Speaker 2: Here's where we're going to get deep. Uh-oh. All Her Love. Hey, man.
Speaker 2: That was somebody else's woman, man. You know what, man?
Speaker 1: The reason I wrote that song, man, is because I
Speaker 1: was like, you know what? There's so many women that
Speaker 1: go through this. You know what I'm saying? But I'm
Speaker 1: going to write it from a male's perspective. Oh.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: It wasn't something I went through. But I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, man? I'm going to try to. The
Speaker 1: statute of limitations is probably over, bro.
Speaker 2: You can say. You know what? It's fine. It's fine.
Speaker 1: Nah, nah.
Speaker 2: But for real, man, it was one of those things
Speaker 2: where I was like, you know what?
Speaker 1: I know women going to love this record because what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: But they're going to hear it from a male perspective.
Speaker 1: Like what a man would go through if he was
Speaker 1: dealing with somebody else and waiting around for her to
Speaker 1: finish with her man.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? He got to come. Like
Speaker 2: it was. I was like, you know what? I think
Speaker 2: that's going to be kind of cool to do. Side
Speaker 2: nigga anthem? Yeah, side nigga anthem. You know, which was some,
Speaker 2: I mean, can we curse him here? That was some
Speaker 2: fuck nigga shit. You know what I'm saying? I didn't
Speaker 2: want to say anything. Let's break it down. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: for real, like, who does that?
Speaker 1: What nigga sitting around waiting on, you know, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's somebody out there doing it now. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: somebody out there doing it, but I just felt like, man,
Speaker 1: I needed to write a record like that, man, because
Speaker 1: nobody was doing it From a male's perspective.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. She gives me all her love,
Speaker 2: but only half the time. Half the time. Man, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's more than enough. No, it's not, nigga. Wake up. No, nigga.
Speaker 1: It's not. But, it is real life. Yeah, it's real life, man.
Speaker 1: Some guys out there living like that.
Speaker 2: And you know what?
Speaker 1: You get that from a lot of females, though. A
Speaker 1: lot of females out there living like that, you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, Yeah, he got a wife at home, but,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah. I'm the side chick. I just get
Speaker 2: what I can take. That's a tough spot. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: That is a tough spot. That's a real tough spot
Speaker 2: to be in.
Speaker 1: But I commend you as a writer to put yourself
Speaker 1: in that position and say, hey, let me flip this.
Speaker 2: Let me flip this on its head.
Speaker 1: Because you could have just wrote a song saying, I
Speaker 1: got a girl that's waiting on me. Right.
Speaker 2: But to put yourself in that vulnerable position— I think
Speaker 2: that's why it resonated the way it did and still does. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think so too. Great songwriting.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of guys don't wear their hearts
Speaker 1: on their sleeves.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: They'd probably be afraid to talk about something like that
Speaker 1: because it kind of takes a little bit of macho
Speaker 1: off of you.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's interesting you said that, man, because I
Speaker 1: feel like we've kind of gone through a bit of
Speaker 1: a drought in our genre of music for a minute
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: You know, but to hear... a Chris Brown do a residuals. Yeah, man. Yeah. Like, yo,
Speaker 2: that's not my girl no more. Right. Like, cause you
Speaker 2: still feel that, you know what I'm saying? You feel that,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And to see someone at his level to still sing
Speaker 1: and speak from a perspective of, I lose too.
Speaker 2: We all, this is life. Cause everybody thinks from the
Speaker 2: outside looking in, oh, you got all this and you
Speaker 2: get this and that.
Speaker 1: Hey, man, it'd be that one. Yeah, I heard the same. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it'd be that one that you'd be like, ah, nigga,
Speaker 1: the one blocked me.
Speaker 2: Right. What did I do?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? That's real. What am I
Speaker 2: going to do? Yeah. Are you watching the residuals of that? Oh,
Speaker 2: she didn't want to marry somebody else. Yeah. She got
Speaker 2: somebody else, baby, now. Yeah, man. That hurts. It's cooked. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that hurts. I mean, I don't care who you are.
Speaker 2: That's what we do is built on. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: R & B music is built on emotion.
Speaker 2: Real feelings, man. I said it the other day online, man.
Speaker 2: I'm like, sex songs and popping your shit, like, that's cool.
Speaker 1: But, like, real emotions. We got to do those records.
Speaker 1: Because that ain't going nowhere. I mean, real life shit,
Speaker 1: that's going to happen all the time. I mean, make-ups, break-ups. Um,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? I got to go work
Speaker 1: this job. It's nine to five, come home and, and
Speaker 1: come home. And my wife got to do run out
Speaker 1: the back door. Like those things happen. So I mean,
Speaker 1: we got to, we got to write about it.
Speaker 2: Oh man. I hope I never experienced that.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, but I mean, those things happen in
Speaker 1: real life, man. And you know, I mean, it's got
Speaker 1: to write about it, man. And, and get it out there,
Speaker 1: even though, you know, uh, some men, they wouldn't, they
Speaker 1: wouldn't say it. They wouldn't speak about it. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Cause it's like, you know, again, it
Speaker 1: makes you less of a man, but, but, uh, I
Speaker 1: think when you put songs out like that, people can,
Speaker 1: like you said, resonate, it resonates with those.
Speaker 2: And, um, absolutely. And, uh, yeah. And I, and I
Speaker 2: just hope that we get back to that.
Speaker 1: That is my one hope in, in, in music period,
Speaker 1: not even just our genre music, but in music period,
Speaker 1: that we get back into that space of emotions. Because
Speaker 1: it's like I said, I have a teenage son. I
Speaker 1: have a preteen daughter. I want them to experience life
Speaker 1: through music as well. And not just, it's all good
Speaker 1: and we partying all the time, are super toxic.
Speaker 2: Right. It's kind of like, you know, two ends of
Speaker 2: the spectrum.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm like, no, there's this other part of life that,
Speaker 1: you know, where the emotions are involved, where you can feel,
Speaker 1: you know, like something either made you really happy or
Speaker 1: really sad or whatever it is. Like we had to
Speaker 1: have that in our, in our music as well.
Speaker 2: I agree. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And I think those are the songs that like, you know,
Speaker 1: like we seen with you and Joe doing the verses, bro.
Speaker 2: Like when them records kick off, the crowd goes crazy.
Speaker 1: You guys have been able to sustain your careers, be
Speaker 1: on the road, still pack out venues, still have everybody
Speaker 1: stop their lives and want to watch. y'all perform these
Speaker 1: records because the emotion is in these songs yeah man
Speaker 1: I mean it was so beautiful man just to watch
Speaker 1: the crowd come out man and support and I know
Speaker 1: they wanted a battle but it wasn't a battle for
Speaker 1: me it was more about a celebration.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it I appreciate the.
Speaker 1: I love his music I love what he's done for
Speaker 1: the culture you know what I'm saying so to make
Speaker 1: it like we going at each other I really didn't
Speaker 1: want to have that type of energy you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying I wanted to have the energy of man
Speaker 1: this is a It's my brother, man, and we appreciate
Speaker 1: what each other have done with our careers, and that's
Speaker 1: what that felt like to me.
Speaker 2: I really pulled up as a fan, bro. Appreciate that, man.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yo, y'all ain't got to do nothing special
Speaker 2: for me. It's all good. Like, can't get a parking spot? Right.
Speaker 2: Other than that, you know what I mean? Right.
Speaker 1: I'm really in there, bro. I was in the crowd
Speaker 1: next to the DJ booth.
Speaker 2: I see, yeah. Singing every song, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Estelle, we end up running to each other in
Speaker 1: the crowd. And she's like, will you come do an interview?
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't tell you no. I love you, Estelle.
Speaker 1: You're my sister.
Speaker 2: I love you. So yes, I'll do it. So I
Speaker 2: come back there and they asked.
Speaker 1: Me about that. You know, about like, you know, what
Speaker 1: did I think of y'all verses? And you were already gone.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to tell you what I said.
Speaker 2: I said, y'all actually have my favorite verses. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Because of what you just said, the celebratory aspect of it.
Speaker 2: And it was funny because it was me and Swiss.
Speaker 2: Swiss was right next to me.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, because of the name, I
Speaker 1: think artists get into this battle mindset because it's called Versus.
Speaker 2: Right. And I was like, I get that. I said,
Speaker 2: but to me, sometimes the banter becomes too much. Right.
Speaker 2: And it overshadows the greatness of the two artists. Right.
Speaker 1: That are there for the people to truly enjoy what
Speaker 1: they've done and do.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And I said, for me, y'all versus was about the
Speaker 1: hits and about y'all and about what y'all brought to
Speaker 1: the culture. And I just got caught in a moment, man.
Speaker 1: Like I was literally, I'm talking about, bro, I'm in there.
Speaker 2: Sweet. A little D dog. I'm in it all the
Speaker 2: way in it, which we're going to get to. Cause
Speaker 2: that's a wild part to say after this girl.
Speaker 1: But, But with the verses, man, it was one of
Speaker 1: those moments where I just was like, oh, this is incredible.
Speaker 1: And I've been a part of multiple verses. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Obviously, I came out and sang with
Speaker 1: Tank for our record Slow. I came out and sang
Speaker 1: with Pleasure P when I did Up with him. And
Speaker 1: then he played Up against... Am I right? Against, no,
Speaker 1: when it was B2K against Pretty Ricky.
Speaker 2: Okay. The last song that played was my song. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is great. So you, yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've been part of three versions, dog. I'm up. I'm up.
Speaker 1: I was going to speak on y'all stage and sing
Speaker 1: background or something last night.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I was going to do something.
Speaker 1: But even the ones that I've been a part of, like,
Speaker 1: it got to a point where I was just like, ah,
Speaker 1: it's just, it's going there. Nah, like, The banter and
Speaker 1: the aggression. And I'm like, that's cool because it's showing
Speaker 1: another side.
Speaker 2: Yes, R.B. Niggas is wild. Oh, yeah. R.B. Niggas is wild.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? It's different backstage. But like
Speaker 1: I said with you guys, man, it made me smile.
Speaker 2: But we talked before. You know what I'm saying? We
Speaker 2: talked before and we were like... They all talked before.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Listen... Don't be confused, brother.
Speaker 2: I ain't the only one that did that. Right, right.
Speaker 2: They talk and they get in front of that crowd
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, yeah, I'm going to show you niggas. Right.
Speaker 2: Because I think.
Speaker 1: It was important for us to get on the phone
Speaker 1: with each other, man, you know, and it was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, man, we have an opportunity, man, to do
Speaker 1: something really good for the culture, man. Let's just go
Speaker 1: out here, man, and let's make this about love. Quite naturally,
Speaker 1: we knew it was going to be once it went
Speaker 1: out to the public, like everybody was going to start.
Speaker 1: They're going to make their own narrative about what they
Speaker 1: think it should be about. But that's cool, man. Let
Speaker 1: the fans do what they do, man. But let's go
Speaker 1: up there, man, and really celebrate each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it was great, man. And it was great to
Speaker 1: be in that building and to feel the love that
Speaker 1: was in that building.
Speaker 2: It was amazing, man.
Speaker 1: Like, bro, it was major artists in there that was
Speaker 1: just in there to be fans.
Speaker 2: Wow. That was amazing, man. Gangsta rappers. You know YG
Speaker 2: was there last night. I seen that, man. I seen that.
Speaker 2: In there having a time, though. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Tyrese doing Tyrese. You know Tyrese going to be Tyrese.
Speaker 2: Tyrese at all times. All day. He in there. 50. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I heard it when he even told you. He was like, bro, like,
Speaker 2: I'm in there backstage just singing the word out. Right.
Speaker 2: That was crazy, man. That was kind of dirty, though,
Speaker 2: how they did me, man. Well, you know. I expected it. No,
Speaker 2: they jumped you. Yeah, they jumped me real bad. We
Speaker 2: jumped Tyrese. You know, we brought out Jamie Foxx. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we jumped Tyrese. Yeah, they tell me, man. But you
Speaker 2: know what? I expected it. But I loved it, man.
Speaker 2: I mean, it just made it real more hype, man.
Speaker 2: And it was dope, man. It was dope. Yeah. You
Speaker 2: did bring out 707. Oh, man. Love them girls, man.
Speaker 1: I told them as well. When I saw them, I said, listen,
Speaker 1: I can't do this show without y'all coming on there.
Speaker 2: Man. Like, we've been trying to. I said, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm going to give y'all my phone number. We're
Speaker 1: going to make this happen. Y'all are important to this coach.
Speaker 2: Man, those girls are incredible, man. Yeah. Incredible, man. It
Speaker 2: was dope, man.
Speaker 1: Those moments of nostalgia, of what y'all brought to the game,
Speaker 1: and even y'all having y'all big pun moments.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Oh, that was great, bro. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1: That was great, bro. I wish Joe could have been there, man.
Speaker 1: You know, Joe was out celebrating his birthday, man.
Speaker 2: Shout out. Yeah. Shout out Fat Joe.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Shout out Fat Joe. I'm waiting for him to put
Speaker 2: me on one of them boxes, man. I'm still cracking, baby.
Speaker 2: Sponsorship over here, man. You know what I'm saying? You know,
Speaker 2: he took Tyke off the box. Really? Yeah, he took
Speaker 2: Tyke off the box. Oh, come on, man. He got
Speaker 2: kicked off the box. Come on, man. But Nori. But Nori.
Speaker 2: Nori grew his hair back. He got kicked off the box.
Speaker 2: Just so he can get on the box. Yes. And
Speaker 2: kicked Tyke's ass off the box. No, that ain't right, man.
Speaker 1: No, that portion of the show was really cool, man.
Speaker 1: And that record. Bro, like, when you really listen to
Speaker 1: that record. nothing really makes sense on that record. It's
Speaker 1: so hard, but it's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You being on the record, niggas want to take
Speaker 2: my life. Niggas want to take my wife. Like what? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then he's talking in the middle of it. He's like, loser,
Speaker 1: go battle. I'm like, nothing on that song makes sense.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man. It's, it's one of the ones, man.
Speaker 1: Like, you know, when I first heard it, man, uh, um,
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, man, this is going to be,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing right now, but this
Speaker 1: shit sounds like it's going to be dope, man. And then,
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, man, he passed away, man. I was like, man, man,
Speaker 1: I thought it was never going to come out. And
Speaker 1: then they called me up, like, we're still going to
Speaker 1: do the video and, you know, this is how we're
Speaker 1: going to do it. And, man, it just came out
Speaker 1: to be a really dope record, man. Rest in peace, pun.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Y'all did the record in the studio together? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we did it in the studio together, man. How was it?
Speaker 1: It just felt like a party, man. Awesome guy, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, the Terror Squad period, man, like, Bottles popping, man.
Speaker 1: It was like a party in the studio, man. So
Speaker 1: I'm in there doing my part. Everybody coming in. It
Speaker 1: was beautiful, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was a moment.
Speaker 1: We're going to reel this thing back, man, because we
Speaker 1: went through some of the songs, my favorites.
Speaker 2: We got to go through that title record. Where I
Speaker 2: Want to Be. Where I Want to Be, brother. It
Speaker 2: is the nicest, shadiest song maybe of all time. Wow.
Speaker 2: It's shady, too, though. It's shady as a motherfucker, dog.
Speaker 2: I ain't gonna lie, bro. When I wrote that song, man,
Speaker 2: that's exactly what I was living. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? I told you I came
Speaker 1: into business. I had two kids at the time. At
Speaker 1: the time I'm making this particular record, I got four
Speaker 1: kids now.
Speaker 2: Okay. You know, I think I'm about 25. You like
Speaker 2: my brother Bob. Yeah, I got four kids now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He had five by 25. You know. He got eight now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my pull out game wasn't strong. So we was having babies.
Speaker 1: So after the My Heart album, you know, things are
Speaker 1: starting to pick up.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? You're on the road. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm on the road. You know, these women coming at me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Telling me to knock
Speaker 1: you off your feet. Yeah, I'm saying some different things. But,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not married, but I'm going on to
Speaker 1: a married life.
Speaker 2: Got you.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Because we live together. You know,
Speaker 1: I got the kids. So, life started to change, man.
Speaker 1: I started to see some things different. And I want
Speaker 1: to write about it, man. Because I really didn't want
Speaker 1: to be in the relationship anymore, but I can't leave.
Speaker 2: Had you had that conversation with her before you wrote
Speaker 2: about it? No. So, that's how she found out about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how she found out about it. But at
Speaker 1: that point, I was already cheating. You know, I was
Speaker 1: already cheating. I was already gone. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: But when that record came out, I never left. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: I never left. We stayed together.
Speaker 1: After Where I Wanted Is Out. After Where I Wanted
Speaker 1: Is Out, we stayed together. We stayed together like five
Speaker 1: years after that. You know what I'm saying? So as
Speaker 1: much as she was mad about the record and her
Speaker 1: family had to hear the record and all these things
Speaker 1: like that, it was kind of bad.
Speaker 2: But we spent that money together. That heartache, that went
Speaker 2: away real fast. Was there a certain gift or something
Speaker 2: that you had to get? Was there anything that you
Speaker 2: just like, you know, I mean, at that point, it
Speaker 2: was whatever you want. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Because, I mean, you know, life has completely changed. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm a star now.
Speaker 2: Cracking. Yeah, I'm cracking. It's on and popping. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, it was whatever you want at that point. Oh, man.
Speaker 1: It wasn't good, man. But it was, that was the
Speaker 1: life I was living. You know, life had changed. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? And, you know, sometimes you want
Speaker 1: to move in a different direction, but You don't know
Speaker 1: how to do it. So my best way to do
Speaker 1: it was to write a song about it.
Speaker 2: You know what that song reminds me of? What's that?
Speaker 2: It reminds me of Harlem Nights. When he was such a...
Speaker 2: Tell your mama I ain't coming home. Wow. I'm sorry. No,
Speaker 2: that's real. My bad, dog. Right. That scene in that song...
Speaker 2: That's how my mind works, though. My mind works wild.
Speaker 2: I can see that, though.
Speaker 1: That scene and that song have always connected to me.
Speaker 2: Where I'm like, oh, here you go. This is the
Speaker 2: video right here. Right. This is the Where I Want
Speaker 2: to Be video right here. That's funny, man. That record, bro,
Speaker 2: it is an all-time, it's a copyright.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is I get a lot of women
Speaker 1: that they don't like me because a lot of guys
Speaker 1: play the record or put it on an answer service or, baby,
Speaker 1: check this out.
Speaker 2: I want you to listen to this. That's how they
Speaker 2: broke up.
Speaker 1: So a lot of women, they come to me, but
Speaker 1: it's also the opposite, too.
Speaker 2: A lot of women did that to their guys, too. Like, y'all,
Speaker 2: I need you to listen to this. Those both ways. Yeah. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, I get a lot of that, man.
Speaker 1: What made you, after you said all that wild shit
Speaker 1: in the first verse, what made you go sweet-a-dee-dee-dee-dee?
Speaker 2: It felt good. It felt good.
Speaker 1: And, you know, to be honest with you, man, like,
Speaker 1: I had got that from my grandmama, man. I don't
Speaker 1: even know how they go together.
Speaker 2: What you grandmama got to do with this, dog? Because
Speaker 2: she used to love jazz. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: So you just start scatting. I just start scatting. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? I'm like, you know what? This
Speaker 2: will sound good right here. I just did it. I
Speaker 2: just did it.
Speaker 1: I think there's a young lady that might have like
Speaker 1: made a post online about like, so he going to
Speaker 1: say all that shit and then he going to tweet it.
Speaker 1: Shout out to that young lady, man. We can find
Speaker 1: that clip. Y'all clip it and post it and make
Speaker 1: it happen, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: The video didn't do no better, though, man, because they
Speaker 1: got me outside beating on windows. And, you know, when
Speaker 1: she finally gets a chance to get out and meet
Speaker 1: some guy, I'm back on her neck again.
Speaker 2: Because that's usually what... Yeah, that's what happens. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can leave, but you can't. Oh, man. Oh, man. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: And that... Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so now you cracking. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You cracking.
Speaker 1: Is there something that you bought? Because I was telling
Speaker 1: somebody this the other day.
Speaker 2: I said... a lot of.
Speaker 1: People have opinions about what we do as a culture,
Speaker 1: what we purchase, how we live, the things we get that, that, um,
Speaker 1: that make us feel good.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there are certain people who have attained
Speaker 1: at a level where they're shooting for something when they
Speaker 1: wake up.
Speaker 2: Right. It's like, okay, I got the nice car. I
Speaker 2: got to get a plane.
Speaker 1: And to me, there's nothing wrong with, having a motivational tool.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: And I'm tired of seeing that bullshit post with Bill
Speaker 1: Gates and which other nigga, Warren Buffett, don't want.
Speaker 2: No Gucci belt. Them niggas can't dress anyway. Right, right.
Speaker 2: Niggas ain't fly. Right. Niggas been paying for the thing
Speaker 2: for a long time. Right, right. You know what I mean? Right, right.
Speaker 2: I'm getting mine off the muscle. I feel you, brother.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So when I see that,
Speaker 2: I get it. But preaching that to our culture that
Speaker 2: we shouldn't celebrate or shouldn't want to work toward things
Speaker 2: that we just like. Exactly.
Speaker 1: You should have whatever you want to have. I mean, it's,
Speaker 1: and don't let somebody dumb it down for you.
Speaker 2: You should have it your way. Exactly. Ain't nobody going
Speaker 2: to tell me how I got to have it my way. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh man, you know, you could have bought
Speaker 2: the replica of that. Wow. I ain't a replica nigga. Right. Right.
Speaker 2: If I can't afford it, I ain't buying it. Right.
Speaker 2: But when I can't afford it and I want it.
Speaker 2: I'm getting it. You can't tell me I shouldn't have
Speaker 2: got it. Mm-hmm. You know you could have put that
Speaker 2: in a bond. Man. Could have. I could have. You
Speaker 2: put yours in a bond.
Speaker 1: Right. Because also, I need to be motivated every morning
Speaker 1: to get up and go get it.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And that's how I look. That's real. So speaking
Speaker 2: of that, what.
Speaker 1: Did you go get when you got where I want
Speaker 1: to be as the song that's controlling the world, Craig?
Speaker 2: You had to get something. I want to get a house, man.
Speaker 2: Come on. Come on.
Speaker 1: I want to get a house, man. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: from Chicago, man. And we had living apartments all out.
Speaker 2: Right. You know what I'm saying? Is it the one, though?
Speaker 2: It's the one you wanted. Yeah, man. I want to
Speaker 2: get me a house, man.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: built it from the ground up and put everything in
Speaker 2: it that I wanted in it. Yes. You know, I
Speaker 2: was very happy with that, man.
Speaker 1: Like, and it just, it made me feel like I
Speaker 1: accomplished something, you know, all that hard work had really
Speaker 1: done something. And not to mention, like I'm, I'm, I'm
Speaker 1: like one of the first generations in my family, man, to,
Speaker 1: you know, to accumulate this type of money, you know?
Speaker 2: So, you know, it's, it's just a beautiful thing. What
Speaker 2: pop say when he seen that? Oh man. I know
Speaker 2: he seen the check early on. Yeah, man. Well, I mean, the, Check,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he got his little portion out
Speaker 2: of that. Yeah, come on, come on.
Speaker 1: You got to give him his tunes and pews. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: but my pa's very proud of me, man. I mean,
Speaker 1: he passed away last year, man.
Speaker 2: My condolences. But, yeah, my pa's real proud, man.
Speaker 1: Just love the fact that I was able to stick
Speaker 1: with music and never give up, even though, you know,
Speaker 1: in the beginning, he was like, man, this ain't going
Speaker 1: to work, man. I tried it, you know, but he
Speaker 1: was going off of what happened to him.
Speaker 2: His own experience. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he didn't see
Speaker 2: it the way I saw it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, and that's why I tell every young artist
Speaker 2: out there right now, man, just your dream is your dream.
Speaker 2: You got to live it. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can help you with it, but you got to
Speaker 2: live it. You got to make it happen for yourself. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: And wait for somebody else to do it for you. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right. So now you cracking. Mm-hmm. Tours. Touring. Round
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Are you seeing, with a record like Where I Want
Speaker 1: to Be and an album of that magnitude, are you
Speaker 1: seeing the audiences shift?
Speaker 2: As far as just singing for more cultures. I am, man.
Speaker 1: I'm singing to younger people. At that time, I'm like 25.
Speaker 1: So I'm getting the 25 and younger, but I'm also
Speaker 1: getting the 45s too.
Speaker 2: Cause I mean, I guess that song was mature. Yes.
Speaker 2: You know, mature song. So I'm, I'm seeing like mamas and, and,
Speaker 2: and daughters in the audience. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: So that, that, then I'm, then I'm, now I'm overseas.
Speaker 1: Now I'm touring different countries. And, you know, so, That
Speaker 1: album definitely took me to places that I never thought
Speaker 1: I'd be.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's what I was going to say. I was
Speaker 1: going to ask you about that. Did you even envision?
Speaker 1: Because like you said, you were in a group. You
Speaker 1: weren't the lead singer.
Speaker 2: No. You're really the writer. So you're like.
Speaker 1: Man, my life was based around four square miles in Chicago.
Speaker 2: That's all I knew. You know what I'm saying? I
Speaker 2: go to school, come back home, play with my homeboys
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. That was it.
Speaker 1: I hadn't even really been around Chicago like that.
Speaker 2: Let alone, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean,
Speaker 2: we'll go downtown a little bit. Right. Every now and then.
Speaker 1: But we, my whole life was based around that four
Speaker 1: square miles. So going from that to now I'm in
Speaker 1: New York. Now I'm coming down to Atlanta. Now I'm,
Speaker 1: I got a passport now.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? So my, everything changed, man. Everything. Yeah. Wow, bro.
Speaker 1: And that's the part that I like to highlight at
Speaker 1: times too, man, is where this can take you. Where
Speaker 1: this music can really take you if you focus in
Speaker 1: and go after it the way you should.
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cause like going back to the things we want to
Speaker 1: attain and, you know, just feeling good about things, but
Speaker 1: just the experiences in themselves, that music, something.
Speaker 2: That I think you would agree with me on. Music
Speaker 2: is magic. It is definitely. It's really magic.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you've ever had this moment, man,
Speaker 1: where I had to start to understand the mind of
Speaker 1: people who didn't do music and maybe some of the
Speaker 1: expectations of, are the doubts they had put on me.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's because you don't believe in magic. Wow.
Speaker 1: You don't believe that I can pull something out the air.
Speaker 1: It's really what we're doing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they got, my dad's got to
Speaker 2: come from somewhere. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: And so, and that's the funny thing about that quote
Speaker 1: that Michael Jackson said.
Speaker 2: I got to get it before Prince get it. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Because, I mean. It's out there.
Speaker 2: It's out there. It's out there. It's out there. You better, man,
Speaker 2: focus and grab it because, I mean, it will be
Speaker 2: given to somebody else. Yeah. Or something you thought about
Speaker 2: and didn't apply. And you'd be like, man, I could have.
Speaker 2: And I had that same song. Yep. The same idea.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: You wanted to flip this. Ah, man, they did it. Yep.
Speaker 2: That's how this go. That's how it go, man. That's
Speaker 2: how it go.
Speaker 1: What we get an opportunity to do with our lives
Speaker 1: being musicians and being in the music business, man, is
Speaker 1: really magical.
Speaker 2: It is. It is.
Speaker 1: I mean, from the beginning, man, I, like I said, man,
Speaker 1: I was a young kid, man, watching all these people
Speaker 1: on TV, watching award shows.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then to, to be in the room. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And, and be around these people, man,
Speaker 2: it's like, damn, man, I'm, I'm one of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm one of them. I'm one of them. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: So it's to go from being a young kid and
Speaker 1: to where I'm at now, man. I mean, it's been
Speaker 1: a journey, man. It's been a journey, man. But I
Speaker 1: wouldn't change anything, man. Because, I mean, like everything has
Speaker 1: taught me a lesson.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And what you've given to music, man, is really special.
Speaker 2: Appreciate that.
Speaker 1: It's really special, man. I just want to say that
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: And I speak for, I feel like I speak for
Speaker 1: the masses. It definitely speaks for, you know, me and
Speaker 1: my family because my sister told me to tell you
Speaker 1: she loves you.
Speaker 2: That's what's up, man. Shout out to my sister Chyna, dog,
Speaker 2: because she's like, listen. Shout out, baby. Thank you. She's like, wait,
Speaker 2: you doing it? Tell him I love him. That's it.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I'm going to tell him. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 1: And, you know, just what you brought to the culture, man,
Speaker 1: from you as an artist, but you as a writer
Speaker 1: and producer as well. And I know we spoke about
Speaker 1: it earlier, you bringing 702 out.
Speaker 2: But, bro, get it together. Yeah, man. Can we get
Speaker 2: it together?
Speaker 1: That's another one. It's so simple. So was that for you?
Speaker 2: No, no.
Speaker 1: I had a girl group at the time. I was
Speaker 1: living in Jersey, and I had a girl group, and
Speaker 1: that was their song.
Speaker 2: Oh, shit.
Speaker 1: And so Eddie had came over to the crib one day,
Speaker 1: and he was like, man, let me hear what you're
Speaker 1: working on.
Speaker 2: So I had played that record for him. He was like, yo.
Speaker 2: make me a copy of that record.
Speaker 1: You know what that means. You know what that means
Speaker 1: in the music business. So I made him a copy
Speaker 1: of the record. And like the next day he called
Speaker 1: me like, he was like, yo.
Speaker 2: 702 want the record. What you going to do with it?
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's for my girl group.
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, so you want the record to
Speaker 1: come out now or you want the record to wait
Speaker 1: until they come out?
Speaker 2: Did you have a deal for them? No, I didn't
Speaker 2: have a deal for them. It was early. So he
Speaker 2: was like, which one you want? I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to break the news to him and tell him
Speaker 2: that I got to get this record up. Sorry. I
Speaker 2: ended up giving it to 702.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now we're writing and producing for other artists, right?
Speaker 1: What's the biggest producer check you got? You know, your
Speaker 1: producer fees, when you... Now you got this big album
Speaker 1: and people are just trying to get you in the
Speaker 1: studio with it. Producer check. I mean, I wasn't really
Speaker 1: a big producer like Tim and them. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? My biggest producer check probably was like maybe $ 50, 000.
Speaker 1: That's a nice check though, brother. That's still a nice check.
Speaker 2: And like $ 120, 000. They was getting like a million.
Speaker 1: Listen, I had a conversation with one of my really good,
Speaker 1: one of my.
Speaker 2: Brothers, and they sure remain nameless. They was telling me
Speaker 2: how they was charging up. They were charging jewelry to
Speaker 2: the food budget. Man. I said, wait, what?
Speaker 1: Oh, man, we was getting Jacob DeJulio to come down,
Speaker 1: and it's $ 5, 000 for a little bracelet that we didn't
Speaker 1: put on the food budget?
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the 90s, that money was flowing. So, man,
Speaker 2: it was... I was like, oh, y'all was going crazy. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: It was different, man. That money was different.
Speaker 1: For you, though, it was never like where you was
Speaker 1: on a producer run for you, though. No.
Speaker 2: No, not like that. So, was the mindset to keep
Speaker 2: the records for yourself for the most part? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: that was my thing, man. For me, it was, it
Speaker 1: was hard to give some of them records up. Like,
Speaker 1: when I'm writing, I'm really thinking about myself sometimes. Not unless,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm in the studio and somebody, like, my
Speaker 1: little brother, Jacquees, I did a song with him.
Speaker 2: Him called 23. That's my guy, man. Yeah, man. He's
Speaker 2: a damn fool. Yeah, he is, man. He always starts
Speaker 2: some shit. Wait, why do you always start shit, dog?
Speaker 2: He does start shit. I just heard about that. I
Speaker 2: love him, dog. Yeah, man. My guy. I don't give
Speaker 2: a fuck. I don't care who feel the way. That's
Speaker 2: my homie. I fuck with him every moment, man. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: But hey, man, but he believe that, man. And so
Speaker 1: you got to appreciate that, man. You got to appreciate
Speaker 1: the fact that, hey, man. man, throw it out there, man.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Hey man, if you believe it,
Speaker 1: then hey, that's all that matters.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, so I love him for that, man.
Speaker 1: But Mike, when I did a record with him called 23,
Speaker 1: I got in the studio with him and he was
Speaker 1: telling me about, you know, what he was going through. Like,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? Like, I got, I got
Speaker 1: this chick and you know what I'm saying? Like, but
Speaker 1: I really don't want to be in a relationship right now.
Speaker 1: And this was back in the day. And I say, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write a song.
Speaker 2: And I say 23. And the song basically is about
Speaker 2: You know, not really wanting to settle down. Mm-hmm. Because
Speaker 2: I'm too young to do that. I'm too young. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so that was specifically written for him. So that's
Speaker 1: how I write. If I'm able to get in the
Speaker 1: studio with you and talk to you and get in
Speaker 1: your head, I write something for you. But for the
Speaker 1: most part, when I'm writing, I'm writing with me in mind.
Speaker 1: So at this stage now, is that something that you
Speaker 1: would even be willing to do with a lot of, like,
Speaker 1: the artists that are around?
Speaker 2: Like, writing for them and producing for them? Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's my goal now is to to get back out and, and, uh,
Speaker 1: and producing right for other artists, man.
Speaker 2: I got, I got so much stuff in the can, man, that,
Speaker 2: you know, cause I'm out. That is why I've been
Speaker 2: chasing you for these years. What's up, man? Trying to
Speaker 2: get you here because what happens, and this is, this
Speaker 2: is something that I found. A lot of the.
Speaker 1: Newer generation don't realize that the.
Speaker 2: Legends in our game are accessible to them. They don't know.
Speaker 1: They really be like, Bro, I would love to work with.
Speaker 1: And then when I get y'all here and I tell
Speaker 1: y'all that, y'all be like, man, I'm with it.
Speaker 2: Definitely. But they really don't know. Definitely.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So that's why I asked you.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, would you be willing to work with
Speaker 1: different people? I think, man, I think where we're at
Speaker 1: right now, man, especially it's almost like basketball, you know, like, like,
Speaker 1: like back in the days, you know, we had people
Speaker 1: who played basketball, but now the players are so much better. Like,
Speaker 1: they can sing so much better, man. I mean, it's just,
Speaker 1: it's different, man. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah, man. It's like, I don't know what's going on, man,
Speaker 2: but I mean, like, riffs and all these things.
Speaker 1: But they've been studying. Yeah, they've been studying. So they
Speaker 1: got a lot of the stuff. And I would love
Speaker 1: to tap into that, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Would you tap into that, man, and give them some lyrics, man,
Speaker 1: that they can, would they do some things with me?
Speaker 1: Because I think that's a lot of what we're missing
Speaker 1: right now is just the lyrical content. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I think that the lyrics
Speaker 2: could be a lot stronger. Yeah. and more storytelling, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, me and Sean Stockman talk about that a lot.
Speaker 1: That's like one of my best friends. And, um, and obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, they've sold more records than we could think of,
Speaker 1: but you know, he's just.
Speaker 2: Like, bro, like they need these just little tweaks. Yep.
Speaker 2: From our generation.
Speaker 1: And I agree with him wholeheartedly where it's just like, man, like,
Speaker 1: but we on our side of it, on the other
Speaker 1: side of 30, 40.
Speaker 2: Yeah. have to say, hey, we got to reach out
Speaker 2: to them and say, you know what? I want to
Speaker 2: pull up on you. Yeah, that's true. You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? And not just feel like, oh, they're going
Speaker 2: to brush me off. No, no, no, no. Hey, man,
Speaker 2: I'm going to come by your session.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about from Kehlani to Coco Jones to, you know,
Speaker 1: J-Don and Papa J Young.
Speaker 2: Like, and just been like, I'm just going to be
Speaker 2: a fly on the wall. I just want to come
Speaker 2: support y'all. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1: I just want to hear what y'all doing. And then
Speaker 1: if you ask me, I'm going to tell you what
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. but we have
Speaker 2: to really create, you know, that, um, that, that community.
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.
Speaker 1: We have to create that community, man. Like I had
Speaker 1: that conversation with Joe. I had that conversation.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like me and Tank live
Speaker 2: by it. You know what I mean? That brother on
Speaker 2: tour right now with. That's so dope, man. Supporting our brothers. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So it's like, we got
Speaker 2: to lead by example in that.
Speaker 1: And it's honestly something I said when I, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was talking to Ebro and Nadeska and, um,
Speaker 1: In the Apple interview where I'm just like, we got
Speaker 1: to be collaborative.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And we got to keep showing up for each other. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just here. Yeah. I agree. Y'all
Speaker 2: asked me to come talk. Yeah. But I'm really just
Speaker 2: here in support of the culture. But you're in the room.
Speaker 2: And these brothers. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Because when we on that stage too, we need to
Speaker 1: look out and see each other. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be the proverbial stage. Just talking about in our business.
Speaker 1: We got to look out and be able to see
Speaker 1: each other and be like, oh man, you know what? Bro,
Speaker 1: I love the fact that, wildly enough, man, I probably
Speaker 1: talk to Keith Sweat once a week.
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. Life, stock tips. You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 2: he on them stocks. What? Wow. He was giving me
Speaker 2: stock tips during the pandemic. I reached out to Keith, man.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know, I've been
Speaker 2: that baby since about, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I got that motherfucker, you know, I'm on that
Speaker 1: NASDAQ and shit, baby.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? What you doing out there?
Speaker 2: You still sleeping, nigga? No, nothing's coming to sleep but
Speaker 2: a dream. I'm like... Nick, you tell me this every
Speaker 2: other day. I remember. Don't nothing come to a sleeper
Speaker 2: but a dream. I had to get my ass up, K.
Speaker 2: I'm up. Right.
Speaker 1: But the fact that I can call upon him on
Speaker 1: that and I can have real conversation with him about
Speaker 1: the business, about ownership, about what to do when you
Speaker 1: actually have your masters.
Speaker 2: Because everybody talks about attaining them. I want my masters.
Speaker 2: What are you going to do? How are you going
Speaker 2: to get those licensed? Are you teaming in place?
Speaker 1: Do you have a team in place to help you
Speaker 1: really grow your business and being able to have legends
Speaker 1: like that as one phone call away, it's invaluable.
Speaker 2: It is. There are certain younger artists that are younger producers,
Speaker 2: are executives that may look at me that way.
Speaker 1: And I want to be that for them as well,
Speaker 1: because that's the only way that we really make this
Speaker 1: thing right. I mean, sharing knowledge, man, don't try to
Speaker 1: be a gatekeeper and hold everything to yourself, man.
Speaker 2: Just, you know, Give these cats what they need, man.
Speaker 2: I mean, it may be something.
Speaker 1: That they can use that you've been doing that you
Speaker 1: can give to them and it can help.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? What's your thoughts? And this
Speaker 2: is fully left field. What's your thoughts on AI? For me,
Speaker 2: I feel like it's cheating. Okay. Do you feel like
Speaker 2: autotune is cheating? I feel like it's cheating too. Okay.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I do. Performance enhancements. Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's what I call it. It's steroids. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: I think where we're at right now with AI, I
Speaker 1: can immediately tell an AI song when I hear it.
Speaker 2: And I can tell an AI voice when I hear it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Because, I mean, it's way too clean. It is way
Speaker 2: too clean.
Speaker 1: And it's doing stuff that... There's no soul behind it either. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1: And I feel like AI right now is.
Speaker 2: Every song... kind of is in the same key. It's
Speaker 2: in the, it's, it's a, I don't know, man. It's frequency. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: It's just, uh, you can tell.
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts on it being an assist
Speaker 1: in the creation process? Other than just being like, okay,
Speaker 1: I just did an AI record more. So being like, okay, shit,
Speaker 1: I'm about to date me. And I'm sure they, you too.
Speaker 1: I used to have a thesaurus.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Keep one with me. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yep. And now, Chad,
Speaker 2: GPT is that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yep. You know what I mean? Or, you know. I
Speaker 2: think if you're doing it in that way. And that's
Speaker 2: why I asked. If you're using it in this thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But if you got it where it's like, okay, well.
Speaker 1: And see, I hate these kind of conversations. But if
Speaker 1: you got it where, well, come up with this bass
Speaker 1: line and come up with this string line and come
Speaker 1: up with this.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I think the human element is always going to be
Speaker 1: better because you're pulling from somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Even if you go
Speaker 2: back and replay it? I'm just asking.
Speaker 1: Because I've heard some dope AI parts and all that
Speaker 1: stuff like that, man.
Speaker 2: You're not going to get away from it. No, we're
Speaker 2: not going to get away from it. It's here now.
Speaker 2: We're not going to get away from it. I just
Speaker 2: feel like... like... It's like a nigga that don't like Uber.
Speaker 2: I just feel like it's going to put a lot
Speaker 2: of people out of work, too. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Because now I don't have to call that session player.
Speaker 2: I could just get.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? I could just get AI
Speaker 1: to do it. And I think it's going to put
Speaker 1: a lot of people out of work like that. Because,
Speaker 1: you know, again, you don't have that human element. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? Like, okay, that AI part got
Speaker 1: played like that.
Speaker 2: But somebody... that's a human is going to have a
Speaker 2: different type of feel. Absolutely. It's going to be different.
Speaker 1: But I do believe that we have to teach the
Speaker 1: new generations, especially us.
Speaker 2: We have kids.
Speaker 1: Our kids are interested in this space.
Speaker 2: They got to learn how to prompt. Oh, yeah. They
Speaker 2: got to learn how to prompt.
Speaker 1: You got to write things in there to get what
Speaker 1: they want because it's going to matter.
Speaker 2: It's moving fast. Yeah, that matters. It's moving fast.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say I wouldn't use AI because
Speaker 1: I would use it.
Speaker 2: But, you know, again, I'm at that point right now where...
Speaker 2: I still have to be at least 90% human. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, and 10% maybe you have right now.
Speaker 1: No, and I ask because it's a hot topic right now, bro,
Speaker 1: especially in our business. I mean, obviously they asked us
Speaker 1: when we were on Breakfast Club about it. And, you know,
Speaker 1: people had certain things to say about it. For me,
Speaker 1: I'm just open-minded, right? Because I believe when you close
Speaker 1: your mind to things.
Speaker 2: You learn less. That's true. That's true.
Speaker 1: So, you know, you have to at least start to
Speaker 1: truly understand it.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 1: You have your own gauge of what you want to use,
Speaker 1: what you don't want to use, what you.
Speaker 2: Believe is fully cheating. I remember... It makes our life easier.
Speaker 1: Bro, we were really early with the underdogs with Auto-Tune.
Speaker 1: Harvey Mason Jr.
Speaker 2: Probably.
Speaker 1: was one of the first guys to have people record
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 1: That was part of the underdog sound, honestly, with the
Speaker 1: vocal sound of it. And I remember the first time
Speaker 1: I sang with it on and I was pissed. Man,
Speaker 1: take that shit off my voice. I was pissed because
Speaker 1: I also came from this very old school way of thinking.
Speaker 1: My daddy used to tell us we need to sing
Speaker 1: and you got to walk it down.
Speaker 2: You got to sing it from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 2: And even punching. Punching is cheating. I mean. Punching vocals
Speaker 2: is cheating, bro. I mean, yeah. But you know what, though?
Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie, man.
Speaker 1: I'm the kind of person where it's at. I don't
Speaker 1: give a fuck, man. I'll punch that one part for
Speaker 1: two hours until I get that motherfucker, man, because I
Speaker 1: want it to sound a certain kind of way. And
Speaker 1: if I'm not getting it, I'll sit there, man. Try
Speaker 1: telling that to James Brown or Gladys Knight.
Speaker 2: No, you ain't. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, they
Speaker 2: want to take it. They're like, wait, wait, you want
Speaker 2: me to do what? Yeah. Hey, baby, get off the studio. No,
Speaker 2: play that from the top again. Hey, baby, get off
Speaker 2: my studio. Yeah, no, that's real. That's so real.
Speaker 1: So we're coming to that point where now we have
Speaker 1: to decide how much of it we want to be
Speaker 1: a part of, or don't want to be a part of, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and I don't want to sound like the old
Speaker 2: man either. You know what I'm saying? Like in the
Speaker 2: back of your head. Cause your sweatsuit and your jewelry
Speaker 2: and your glasses is very fly. And you're on your,
Speaker 2: you're YN right now. So I don't want you to
Speaker 2: feel like that neither.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: No, I don't want to feel like the old man, like, nah,
Speaker 1: they shouldn't do it. Um, I mean, I embrace everything, man.
Speaker 1: It's just right now. I just feel like, um, I
Speaker 1: just love the human element, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think AI is on to something. I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be really big. It already is.
Speaker 2: It already is. It already is.
Speaker 1: I told niggas they need to give Milli Vanilli their
Speaker 1: Grammy back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. Anyway. Get them niggas their Grammy back.
Speaker 2: They still had to go out and sell that shit. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I hear y'all, oh, they wasn't in. But without that look,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have happened. You know what I'm saying? You
Speaker 2: hear me? Yeah. So, especially where we're at in the
Speaker 2: business now. Mm-hmm. What they call it is, is it retract?
Speaker 1: I don't know the word on the top of my
Speaker 1: mind right now, but whatever that is, the reversion of it.
Speaker 2: Get them niggas that Grammy back, man. Yeah. Yeah. Especially
Speaker 2: where we going with this business. For real. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because what I've learned by having kids, they don't care.
Speaker 2: Nah. Yeah. Nobody does. They just want to dance. Yep.
Speaker 2: Or they just want to do their little jump up
Speaker 2: and down in the crowd of them. Yep. And they
Speaker 2: just want to feel good. Mm-hmm. And I get it.
Speaker 2: The purists, listen, there are a lot of purists that
Speaker 2: watch this show. And I respect the purists. But I
Speaker 2: also respect evolution. Yeah, man. I mean, it's going to
Speaker 2: happen with or without your consent. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: So you better get used to it. So speaking of
Speaker 2: new things, what's new for Donnell Jones?
Speaker 1: I'm ecstatic, man, to get back in the studio and work.
Speaker 2: We're going on a project right now. Yeah? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: We're getting an album. Yeah, man. I'm going to do it, man.
Speaker 2: You know, it's been a while, man. But maybe... five
Speaker 2: six years i think it's been okay i'm not really.
Speaker 1: Sure what the time period but man i'm just ecstatic
Speaker 1: man about just getting back in there and just writing
Speaker 1: man i mean i've been through a lot i recently
Speaker 1: got divorced a couple of years ago you know so
Speaker 1: took some time off and i got a lot to
Speaker 1: write about and a lot to speak about you.
Speaker 2: Know yeah how far along are you into the album
Speaker 2: is it is it close it's it's it's we're fresh Oh,
Speaker 2: you're just starting it? Yeah, we're fresh. Okay. We're fresh.
Speaker 1: So we're not getting it. I've been talking about this
Speaker 1: project for a while, man. But again, you know, I
Speaker 1: had to live a little bit and I went through
Speaker 1: some things. And I'm on the other side of it now, man.
Speaker 1: So I'm feeling really good and ecstatic about where R &
Speaker 1: B is and my place in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Are you looking to be collaborative in it?
Speaker 2: Or do you want a lot of features? Do you want,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? I want some features, man.
Speaker 2: I want to collaborate. You know, I'm open. Your camera's
Speaker 2: right there. Your camera. Tell us. The artists out here
Speaker 2: that love Donnell Jones, that would want to do a
Speaker 2: record with Donnell Jones. Man, her. Yeah. I love her.
Speaker 2: Summer Walker. You know what I'm saying? Definitely Summer. I mean, Chris.
Speaker 2: Come on, Chris. Yeah. Eric Bellinger. Tank.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, man.
Speaker 1: Like, there's so many artists out there, man, that I
Speaker 1: would love to do something with, that I love their work.
Speaker 2: And, man, if they could participate, man, it'd be great.
Speaker 2: That has to happen, bro. Yeah. And we all have
Speaker 2: to be a part of that. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, you on this show right now,
Speaker 2: anything I can do to help. Man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Even if it's just a phone call. Oh, yeah. Bro,
Speaker 2: I got you. I stick by my word. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And I'll tell you, listen,
Speaker 2: I can't get to them. Right. Right. Right. I've been trying, dog.
Speaker 2: I've been trying. Right. But I will at least attempt.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: It's just because everybody always wants to tell you when
Speaker 1: there's a problem. Nobody actually wants to be the solution.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I try to be a solution-based person. I try to
Speaker 1: be helpful and of service. of some kind in, you know,
Speaker 1: in my relationships and the people that I really rock with.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And with somebody like.
Speaker 1: You, man, who I have the utmost respect for in
Speaker 1: this game and what you've done in this game and
Speaker 1: what you're doing, I would love to say, man, you
Speaker 1: know what?
Speaker 2: I made a phone call for Donnell Jones. That'd be dope.
Speaker 2: I got him a feature. Such and such.
Speaker 1: Or, you know, put him on to a new writer
Speaker 1: or producer that had a record that his voice fits.
Speaker 1: That is what we have to do, bro.
Speaker 2: Man, I appreciate it. We have to do it. For real.
Speaker 2: For real. Yeah. Look at it, man. I don't want
Speaker 2: to do everything. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: I do want to open it up and get some
Speaker 1: sounds from some other people, man.
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, you know, people want to hear
Speaker 2: what I do. Of course.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, man, I think
Speaker 1: it's more importantly that we open up this project and
Speaker 1: get some other sounds on there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Now, that's exciting, bro. Yeah. That's really exciting.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: Do you, in your mind, because you've been on all
Speaker 1: sides of business with it, is it something that you
Speaker 1: feel like you would want to do with a label
Speaker 1: or are you, are you a purely ever independent mindset now?
Speaker 2: I'm neither. Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm saying like, it doesn't matter to me. I just
Speaker 1: want to make something really good. And I think the
Speaker 1: cards will fall where they may.
Speaker 2: Of course.
Speaker 1: You know, I would love to have a label because,
Speaker 1: you know, you're working with their money, their team, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: And if you can get them to do what you
Speaker 2: need them to do. We like OPM, man. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: We like other people's money.
Speaker 1: I mean, but at the end of the day, if
Speaker 1: it's something that I have to do, I'm, I'm, I
Speaker 1: got enough to make it happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm having enough to
Speaker 2: make it happen. I respect that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Cause you know, you be on that road, brother. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: We working. And you wrote them songs. You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? So, you know, I know, I know it's
Speaker 2: still pulling up.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We, yeah, we good, man. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Like it's the, the funny thing is, is, um, these
Speaker 1: records be getting sampled, man. Like that 702 record has
Speaker 1: been sampled so many times, man. It's like, and that's
Speaker 1: the beauty about music, man.
Speaker 2: Did you write that? Never stopped sampling, y'all. I wrote
Speaker 2: that for you. Did you write that a hundred percent?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh man. Oh, yeah. I need to borrow $ 5 before
Speaker 2: you leave. I need to hold something. Those records, man.
Speaker 2: They be sampling, man. They be sampling, bro. You clearing them?
Speaker 2: When you get the request, you clearing them? Oh, for sure. Okay.
Speaker 2: Me ain't turning nothing down. You never know. You never know.
Speaker 2: You never know what that record become. You never know, man.
Speaker 2: You never know.
Speaker 1: Just so y'all know, all you young producers and artists
Speaker 1: out there that want to flip a Donnell Jones.
Speaker 2: Record, he said he going to clear it. Oh, we
Speaker 2: clearing it? Yeah, he said he going to clear it.
Speaker 2: He might ask for 85%. He's going to clear it.
Speaker 2: He is going to clear it.
Speaker 1: And it's funny, man, because I've noticed, too, that your
Speaker 1: fan base.
Speaker 2: Has been skewing younger. What do you attribute that to?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think, you know.
Speaker 1: You got some TikTok shit cracking, bro. They got someone
Speaker 1: on TikTok called Donnellaholic. Now I know a harlot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man. And it's young. We did a, what do
Speaker 2: you call it, a study or whatever.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing is, most of my fans now
Speaker 1: are from 35 down to like 18. And what's tripped
Speaker 1: out about it is, I think what's going on is
Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, back in the days, our
Speaker 1: mothers played records. And like, that's why I love the
Speaker 1: Ozzy Brothers so much, even though I'm not part of
Speaker 1: that generation. but I listen to that music, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? And I think that's what's going on.
Speaker 1: I think that their parents played the music, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: and they heard it and now they play it for
Speaker 1: their kids and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2: I consider myself a good parent because my son can
Speaker 2: sing where I want to be. You know what I mean? Like, ah,
Speaker 2: calm down, dog. Calm down.
Speaker 1: You might not want to sing that to a girl.
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is, man. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: As we get older, you know what I'm saying? We
Speaker 1: play that music and their kids pick it up and
Speaker 1: their kids pick it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think that's what it is. Yeah. Nah, bro.
Speaker 2: Like I said, man, what you've done in this game, man,
Speaker 2: it shows. I appreciate that. It shows, man. And I'm
Speaker 2: glad that we're able to celebrate you on this platform, bro.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: But, you know, while you're here, man, let's get into
Speaker 1: the mind of Donnell.
Speaker 2: Okay. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: And what, you know, your inspirations are and have been
Speaker 1: to get you to this spot, man.
Speaker 2: Don, can you play something for me, man, that the
Speaker 2: good brother Tank sent in, please? Top five. You here.
Speaker 2: You here. Your top five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. R &
Speaker 2: B singers. R & B songs.
Speaker 1: We've got to know.
Speaker 2: Come on. Before you go. Here on this show. Everybody
Speaker 2: want to know. Here on Top 5. Yes. Top 5.
Speaker 2: Top 5. Yeah, man. Oh, man. Oh, yeah, man.
Speaker 1: Now it's time for you to tell us your top
Speaker 1: five R & B singers and top five R &
Speaker 1: B songs.
Speaker 2: Okay, my top five R & B singers can't... Do
Speaker 2: whatever you want. Donnell Jones, brother. Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder. Donny Hathaway. Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Teddy Pendergrass. Mm-hmm. You got the zip down, too. Okay,
Speaker 2: I see what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not
Speaker 2: quite a button doll, you know what I mean? But
Speaker 2: you got the zip down. Prince, man. Teddy P. Prince, man. Prince. Yeah, man. Prince, man. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Killer vocals. Yeah, man. Killer vocals. Prince, man. Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Is that five or that's four? It's five.
Speaker 1: Wait, you said Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Donnie Hathaway, Teddy P.
Speaker 2: Teddy P. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. And
Speaker 2: I can go on for days, man. I mean, listen.
Speaker 2: I can go on for days.
Speaker 1: What are some other names? I ain't going to stop you.
Speaker 1: And we said, would that R & B single, would
Speaker 1: that male? You want females to get a win in
Speaker 1: that too?
Speaker 2: Come on. Oh, Jane Karn. What's her name? Aretha Franklin. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Patrice Russian. Yeah. Uh, Tin Marie. Oh, I love Tin Marie.
Speaker 2: I mean, man, so many, man. I mean, Delise Williams. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Shirley Murdoch. Okay, now you going crazy. I mean, Kelly Price.
Speaker 2: I'm 75.
Speaker 1: I mean, Minnie Houston. You know, I mean, it's so many, man.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's a very hard list to do.
Speaker 2: It is, man. It's tough. It's a very hard list.
Speaker 2: I mean, we talking about all times, man. Yeah. We
Speaker 2: ain't even done yet. No. You know, we still going.
Speaker 2: You know? There's a Jasmine Sullivan. Oh, man, man. She
Speaker 2: just smokes everything and everybody. Well, she probably is the
Speaker 2: best of the best. Oh, my God. You know, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you got to have another list for her. Like, that's
Speaker 2: a whole nother list. She's special. Yeah, man. Incredible. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 2: So you gave me the top 70,000, five. Top five
Speaker 2: R & B songs. Lady In My Life, Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2: Before I Let Go. Blackstreet. Blackstreet. My sister was in
Speaker 2: that video. Another sister. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She was, she was like, she played, she's in a,
Speaker 1: like a, I don't know if it's not a coffee.
Speaker 1: She's like outside of a coffee shop. It looked like
Speaker 1: she's like on a.
Speaker 2: Date or something.
Speaker 1: But yeah, my sister was just randomly in that video.
Speaker 1: She gonna kill me too. Cause she's a full movie
Speaker 1: executive now.
Speaker 2: They gonna be, they gonna go look for it. They
Speaker 2: gonna look for it. Watch. Yeah. Ever my lady. Yeah. Uh, Jodeci. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like a dream. Um, Always and Forever. That was...
Speaker 2: Whose version? Heat Wave. Heat Wave. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Heat Wave. Okay, all right. And what's another one, man?
Speaker 2: One more. You can always say one of yours. Okay, well,
Speaker 2: where do I want to be? Where do I want
Speaker 2: to be? I didn't want to put me in there. Hey, man, listen, bro.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that, but yeah, where I
Speaker 2: want to be. Man. Yeah. I told you that that
Speaker 2: record just has a special place in it. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: But y'all should add this on. Okay. Producers. Because. You
Speaker 2: want to tell me the producers?
Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: Come on. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, man. Jam and Lewis. Babyface, man. Babyface.
Speaker 2: Teddy Riley, man. Teddy. I got to go with my
Speaker 2: man Eddie F., man. And I got to put R.
Speaker 2: Kelly in there, man. Rob. R. Kelly, man. You are
Speaker 2: from Chicago. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.
Speaker 2: I get it. I get it. Now, that list of
Speaker 2: producers is. Oh, and you can't. You can't. Gambling Huff, man. Gamblin'
Speaker 2: Huff out of Philly. Yeah, they made some incredible records. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, he can't name it. He and I talk
Speaker 2: about Gamblin' Huff. Yeah, and then, you know, the all-time
Speaker 2: is Quincy. Quincy your all-time?
Speaker 1: I mean, because he spanned so many genres and did
Speaker 1: it for so long.
Speaker 2: I have this argument. Is Quincy from Chicago or Seattle?
Speaker 2: I think he's from Chicago. I'm going to always say Chicago.
Speaker 2: I do that with all my Chicago homies. They be like,
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones. We got Quincy Jones. I was like, Quincy
Speaker 2: Jones from Seattle, right? No, he not. And we ain't
Speaker 2: going to fact check that either. We going to keep
Speaker 2: it Chicago.
Speaker 1: They be pissed at me when I say that, too.
Speaker 1: And I'll just do it to fuck with him.
Speaker 2: Right. I'll just do it to fuck with him. Because
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, y'all have arguably the greatest producer of
Speaker 2: all time. Yeah, man. He's one of them, man. For real. Now, he's... Special, special, special.
Speaker 1: Okay, now you're going to build the ultimate R &
Speaker 1: B artist. Your Voltron. Your R & B Voltron. We're
Speaker 1: going to do the vocals. We're going to sing. We're
Speaker 1: going to be the voice for this artist. And this
Speaker 1: can be male, female. You can mix it. Who's going
Speaker 1: to be the voice for this artist? Who's going to
Speaker 1: be the performer, the stage performer? Who got the coldest
Speaker 1: stage performance? Who got the flyest style? Who going to
Speaker 1: put that shit on? Then who got the passion? Who's
Speaker 1: the most passionate artist you can think of? And since
Speaker 1: you are a very top tier, elite level songwriter, I
Speaker 1: need to know who going to write the songs for
Speaker 1: this artist. But first, for Donnell Jones, Voltron, R & B,
Speaker 1: Voltron artist, who's the voice? The voice is going to
Speaker 1: be a mixture of Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 2: Are you doing Hybrids?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Whitney Houston. Oh, golly. And it's going to be probably
Speaker 2: mixed with a little Stevie. Okay. You're the first one
Speaker 2: to add three. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Listen, you know. Yeah. Okay. So Aretha Whitney Stevie is
Speaker 2: the singer. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Stage performance.
Speaker 1: Stage performance, I would say, is going to be Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson mixed with Man, I got to mix it. Because
Speaker 1: I got to, because the guy, no, because the guy,
Speaker 1: it's with Chris Brown.
Speaker 2: It's yours. That's it. Mike and the Chris. Mike and
Speaker 2: the Chris, man. So you're saying if Michael Jackson could
Speaker 2: do backflips, it would just all be Michael Jackson. And
Speaker 2: Gangsta Walk. Yeah. That's why I got to go with
Speaker 2: Chris too, man. Because I mean, Chris is doing some
Speaker 2: amazing things, man. So aggressive. Yeah, man. He just looked different.
Speaker 2: Did you see where he slipped on stage and he
Speaker 2: flipped back up? He half-flipped it in perfect time. I
Speaker 2: was like, come on, dog. That half-flipped in perfect time, too?
Speaker 2: And then the nigga just kind of laughed it off.
Speaker 2: You can't really say performance without putting his name. He's
Speaker 2: that guy. Yeah, yeah. And he's flying around the stadium now.
Speaker 2: He's like 200 or 300 feet in the air. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: be scaring them up a good. I think I'd be
Speaker 2: scared on the road coasting that high. Yeah, I'm afraid
Speaker 2: of heights too, man. I couldn't do that. I'm cool, bro.
Speaker 2: I'm cool off that. Okay, who's style? Style-wise.
Speaker 1: Who the fly artist, man? You putting, you know, you putting,
Speaker 1: you putting they fit on this artist.
Speaker 2: I would say Michael.
Speaker 1: I mean, some glittery, you know, some, some, you know, some, yeah.
Speaker 1: I got on glowing socks right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, you do? You do? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen. Okay.
Speaker 2: It's real. Okay. Everything you're saying, I believe. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: do Mike, man. Mike Glitter, yeah. Yes. Yeah, come on.
Speaker 2: You got to have some glitter socks, man. Yeah. All right. Passion.
Speaker 2: The passion of the artist. Passion. Curtis Mayfield.
Speaker 1: You know, I think what he did, he had to
Speaker 1: have a lot of passion.
Speaker 2: Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't think
Speaker 2: he gets mentioned enough, you know. He does not. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He does not.
Speaker 1: Incredibly talented, incredibly passionate. And what he was writing and
Speaker 1: singing about.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Tell me about it.
Speaker 1: He's talking about Writing your life, your reality, the reality
Speaker 1: of the streets and what was going on.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And they did a damn good job at it, man. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Amazing job. Curtis Mayfield. Absolutely. Okay. Who's the songwriter for
Speaker 2: this artist? I got to go with two. Two people again. Okay.
Speaker 2: Come on. I'm going with Babyface and R. Kelly, man. Oh,
Speaker 2: my God. Yeah. I'm going with, yeah. Because I can
Speaker 2: do it with just Babyface, though. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Do it with just Kels, too?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do it with just Kels, too. They were both
Speaker 1: on Tony's album, man. I mean, and they both did
Speaker 1: a couple songs. I forget which album it was, but...
Speaker 1: And that album was dope as hell.
Speaker 2: So I would... Yeah, it was due for Tony Braxton.
Speaker 2: I gotta go back to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did a record on that same album that
Speaker 1: she had, I Don't Wanna Sing.
Speaker 2: Another Love Song. Okay. Yeah, I gotta go look into that. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1: And that was a dope album. I think them two would...
Speaker 1: It would be a great competition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, Babyface is... I seen him
Speaker 1: in concert, man. I was like, damn, man, like, all
Speaker 1: these damn records, man.
Speaker 2: You see how he's still running across the stage? Man, man,
Speaker 2: it's crazy, man. I mean, what, he like in his 60s? Yeah. Man,
Speaker 2: he got it, man. Babyface sprinting across the stage. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: It's amazing and hilarious. It's funny, too. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: You can tell he out of breath. But he killing it.
Speaker 1: Because you don't have any songs that validates you running
Speaker 1: across the stage.
Speaker 2: Sprinting. Right, right, right. Sprinting.
Speaker 1: Oh, man.
Speaker 2: He like, I'm going to show y'all.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's all it is. It's just a flex. Yeah. It's
Speaker 2: really a flex. And killing it. It go crazy though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: It's a full flex. Yeah, man. Shout out to Face, man.
Speaker 2: I love Kenny, man. Shout out to Face. One of
Speaker 2: the first people I worked with when I came to
Speaker 2: LA and had the pleasure and, you know, I was
Speaker 2: honored to write with when I first got to LA. Wow, man.
Speaker 2: It must have been something, man. I.
Speaker 1: I was on the face for many years, man, and
Speaker 1: people would think that I got a chance to work
Speaker 1: with him, but I never got a chance.
Speaker 2: Y'all never worked together? Never, man. Face, man. Let's do something, man. Grace,
Speaker 2: what are you... Yeah. Man, if you don't come do
Speaker 2: a record with Don L. Jones... Yeah, man. That's crazy. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: Never knew that. That's on my bucket list. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like that, too, though, when you are pretty much self-contained. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where like, oh, let him
Speaker 2: do what he do. Yeah. I don't want to get
Speaker 2: in the way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's what they did, man. You know, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that they, they allowed me to do that.
Speaker 1: Cause I mean, it definitely, um, it helped my career
Speaker 1: in a way. Whereas that, you know, I was, I
Speaker 1: was able to like, I took a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: from them and listen to a lot of music, but
Speaker 1: them allowing me to be me, man, I think it
Speaker 1: definitely shaped my career and shaped my music. Um, and
Speaker 1: I think that's when you, that's why when you hear
Speaker 1: a Donnell Jones record, you can tell, that the songs
Speaker 1: that I've done and the song that's, that's other people's.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay. We got one more,
Speaker 2: we got one more segment, man, before I let you
Speaker 2: out here. Okay.
Speaker 1: People, you know, this, this, this segment, man, people love this,
Speaker 1: this part of the show, brother. So, you know, when
Speaker 1: you hear this song, you have to, you have to
Speaker 1: think about what, you know, story you're going to tell.
Speaker 1: Play that for me real quick, dad.
Speaker 2: So, we had a very important part, like I told you, where....
Speaker 1: You tell us a story. Funny or fucked up? Or
Speaker 1: funny and fucked up? The only rule to the game
Speaker 1: is you can't say no names.
Speaker 2: Hmm. Okay. I love when the light bulb go off.
Speaker 1: I know this particular, we was in a situation where,
Speaker 1: you know, this particular artist was.
Speaker 2: Was telling me about this female that he just met. Okay.
Speaker 2: And he just, you know, just hook up with her.
Speaker 2: Come on. Sounds very R & B.
Speaker 1: And he was like, yo, man, she dope as hell, man. Like,
Speaker 1: she really dope, but she got a foot fetish, man.
Speaker 2: She has a foot fetish? She has a foot fetish.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Like, man, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Like, every time I go over there, man, like, she
Speaker 1: want me to take off my shoes. But he was like,
Speaker 1: this particular time, bro, she put my whole foot in
Speaker 1: her mouth. And, I mean, he was like, yo, bro, like,
Speaker 1: he ain't got no little foot. He was like, yo, bro,
Speaker 1: she put my whole foot in her mouth, man. And
Speaker 1: I just couldn't stop thinking about that, man. But, yeah,
Speaker 1: that happened in real life, man. Yeah, that's my story.
Speaker 1: Did he keep dealing with it?
Speaker 2: I mean, he liked it. He liked it. I mean,
Speaker 2: he kept going back. He obviously liked it, too, though.
Speaker 2: He liked it. I mean.
Speaker 1: He just walk over and do this. I just couldn't
Speaker 1: imagine it, man. It wasn't no size eights.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to.
Speaker 1: Figure out how she get her whole foot.
Speaker 2: That whole foot in her mouth. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.
Speaker 2: So there's some women out here eating a full foot.
Speaker 2: A full foot. A full foot, man. I mean, if
Speaker 2: they tell you to take your shoes off, man, you
Speaker 2: better be careful, man. They might have a foot fetish. Oh,
Speaker 2: my God. Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. That's wild. That's wild. Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right. Okay. You know what? I didn't want to
Speaker 2: say it, but yeah, it happens. So listen, brother, this
Speaker 2: has been an honor and a pleasure, bro. Thank you, man.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time. Thank you. People have been
Speaker 2: asking for you to come on here. I appreciate that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They've been, they've been, man, when is Donnell Jones coming on?
Speaker 1: I'm trying, guys. I'm trying.
Speaker 2: We had to get out here to L.A., y'all. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying? I've done it. I've done it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've done it.
Speaker 1: Listen, when I accomplish these things where I get the
Speaker 1: artists that everybody wants that I personally want on as well, man,
Speaker 1: it makes me feel great. Man, thanks for having me, man,
Speaker 1: for real, man. I've always wanted to do this podcast, man. Like,
Speaker 1: it's one of the ones that's high on my list, man. Like, yo,
Speaker 1: we got to do this. So I appreciate you guys
Speaker 1: having me, man, for real.
Speaker 2: Of course, bro.
Speaker 1: Listen, and like I told you before, we are in
Speaker 1: full support. all things that you got going on.
Speaker 2: Thank you. We're waiting on the Elevator album. Will we
Speaker 2: get that this year or is it going to probably
Speaker 2: be next year? I mean, we kind of on mid-ground
Speaker 2: right now. Yeah. Probably early next year. Okay. Okay. Well,
Speaker 2: we're waiting on it and we're sending out the signals. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: We're going to send out the bad signals, man. If
Speaker 1: y'all want to be a part of it, man, let
Speaker 1: me know, man. Let's get to work, y'all.
Speaker 2: Yeah. For real. Yeah. Now, man. Amazing, bro. Hey, y'all.
Speaker 1: This has been the R & B Money Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Jay Valentine. and the incredible, the legend himself, Donnell Jones.