WEBVTT - How Traffic Works 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.480 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff Works 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:13.840 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.480 With me is Charles Precious Bryant. How you doing, Precious. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.239 This is the podcast based on the novel Push by Sapphire. Yeah, 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.560 that is absolutely right, word for word. Right, Jerry just 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.840 got back because you did a spoiler. Yeah, for Precious, 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.159 I've known for spoilers, aren't it? At least two? It 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.000 was home? No, there was a there was um six 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.839 ft under. There was another one I spoiled too, wasn't there? Yeah? 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:41.440 There was one you spoiled that was a really old 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.320 movie and I was like, come on, that movie is 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.080 like fifteen years old. There's a statue of momentation? Was 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.360 it Buck Ruband's eye? Yeah? I think that was it? Yeah, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.240 me too, Chuck. Yes, have you ever been in traffic? 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.920 That's the best. I God, how do you set this up? Chuck? 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:58.760 Do you like Steve Winwood? Yeah? You know I was 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.120 gonna make a traffic a band comment. Have you ever 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.080 seen the low spark of high heeled boys? Yeah? Yeah, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.600 that's it. I'm seriously I'm like trying to you know, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:13.520 he was like fifteen when he first joined traffic because 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:19.279 he's a Lithario. Yeah, and by that I mean in Prodigy. Yeah. Yeah, traffic. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.240 I've been in traffic, buddy, you Yes, I have actually 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.640 been in traffic. Um happens a lot because I don't 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:31.160 ride Marta. You ride are fine, fine, crippled public transit 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.000 system here in Atlanta. I'm never in traffic anymore. It's 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.400 it's really been a huge difference in my life. Yeah. Well, 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.800 I don't ride Marta because, um, I I usually I 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.960 tend to avoid the smell of urine and um, reading 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.000 while moving makes me sick. So I'm you know, plus, 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.360 I value I used to value being able to smoke. Yeah, dude, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:55.600 I was just about to say that's why I used 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.680 to drive. Yeah, and now I'm just like, I just 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:59.200 do it out to have it. But I get caught 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.760 in traffic a lot, and it stinks. I don't see 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.120 you on a public transport. You're not not You're not 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.560 that kind of social No. That's the other thing too, 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.000 it's like, oh, hey, we work together, let's talk the 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.480 whole time. No, I don't. I wear my sunglasses. It 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.079 can be dark and raining, and I've told everyone here 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:16.880 that if I have my shades on. That means the 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.000 office is closed. Nice, the story is shut down. That's 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.600 very nice stories. It looks super cool. Alright, So I'm 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.440 a jerk that doesn't talk to coworkers. Now, moving on, buddy, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:33.520 It's okay, Chuck. Do you remember when we recorded quicksand yes, 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.280 do you remember how we said that there's like a 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.640 finite amount of stuff out there about quick thing, because 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.640 there's a finite amount to know. There's a finite amount 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.800 to know about traffic. But there's tons of information out there. Yeah, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.040 lots of little side things to know for sure. Yeah, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:55.320 Because ultimately, traffic happens in two ways. One is there 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.640 is simply congestion. There's just too many cars on the 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:05.920 road to carry to carry the flow of traffic quickly right. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.440 The other way is there is some unpredictable event that 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:16.360 somebody's pulled over, somebody's broken down, there's a wreck, maybe 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.200 an event that falls under congestion. Police have pulled over 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.960 a traffic a speeder. People always slow down for that, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.600 and that's it. That's it. Those are pretty much the 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:30.440 two broad categories that traffic can be created, right, um, 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:36.080 And what happens in each of those events is somebody 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:41.880 up front puts on their brakes and that that one 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.720 press of the brakes travels backward all the way through. Right, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.200 when you have a bunch of different cars and different 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.840 lengthes doing that at the same time, you have traffic 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.840 You know what, that's called traffic wave. Yes, that's true. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:57.920 It's a domino effect. It's very easy, it is. And 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.600 I came up with my own idea of describing this. 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.080 You ready, Okay, So what I came up with is 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:08.320 called the traffic bubble, okay, by Josh Clark. So the 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.920 traffic bubble happens when somebody is driving along and presses 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.040 their brakes for whatever reason. And just imagine that when 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.479 they press that break, the big bubble grows over the 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.720 car and it starts very slowly traveling backwards. And each 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.600 car behind that car that's that created the traffic bubble 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.359 isn't allowed to accelerate again until the traffic bubble is 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.359 passed through them, right. But then the further back the 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.320 traffic bubble goes, the more it dissipates, until eventually the 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.320 people far enough back don't have to go through the 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.279 traffic bubble and they're not affected by it. And does 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.640 the bubble pass through the front cars to where they 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.000 can then again accelerate. Is that how you see it 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.400 as a moving bubble? Yeah? Over the bubble travels backwards 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.760 over the traffic, and then once it passes over you, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.320 you're allowed to accelerate again. I believe you're just going 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.520 to turn my friends traffic bubble like that or science 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.880 or no breaking bubble. That's what I called it. Okay, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.479 breaking bubble. Yeah, like a piping effect. I hate that 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.760 guy and he hates you. I don't care so traffic Josh, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.160 you want wink, might as well thrown a few stats here. Yeah, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.000 this one's that heavy. It is this this article by 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.600 our colleague Jonathan Strickland at tech Stuff. Yeah, the Baldest 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.520 podcast on staff. Here, Uh, what's a good stat here? 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.680 The estimated traffic costs if you want to talk about 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.000 cost of traffic, and about five years ago they estimated 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.599 about seventy eight billion dollars and that's only fuel and 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.640 waste of time. They don't take into account like pollution, 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.919 environmental damage, health costs due to pollution. I mean it 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.640 would really add up if you got to, you know, 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.080 include those things. Yeah, and um with extra gas that 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.640 was bought in two thousand seven, right, isn't that the 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:56.960 year that studies connected recovered. Um, we in the US 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.359 bought two point nine billion bill in extra gallons of 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.360 oil because of traffic, and the annual cost for each 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.400 individual motorists in America was like seven bucks just sitting there, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.279 just from traffic, not from you know, the gas that 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.400 you need to actually get from point A to point B, 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.719 but the extra gas used from idoling. Yeah crazy, yeah, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.280 And uh, I believe l A tops it out obviously 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.559 at about two weeks a year you potentially spend sitting 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.080 in your car and traffic. Yeah, l A has Um. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.480 There's this group called the Texas Transportation Institute, and I 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:36.120 think they're out of A and M. Maybe they're awesome. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.240 They they they are like the leaders and studying and 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:44.200 understanding and trying to mitigate traffic, right um. And they 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.680 came up with this thing called the travel time index. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.799 Right Yeah. So basically you take the amount of time 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.240 it takes and it's specific to each city, and it's 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.680 for each city. It's not compared from city to city. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.400 It's compared to a certain time in one city to 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.000 another time in the same city. So in an off 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.720 peak time, say you can travel the speed limit, it 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.320 takes you one hour to get from point A to 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.800 point B. In Los Angeles, it would take one point 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.320 nine two hours. Doubles your time basically during yeah, during 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.240 rush hour, So it takes twice as long to get 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.520 from point A to point B during rush hours compared 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.440 to off peak. That's the travel time index. Yeah, and 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.800 you know you have to do this anywhere you live 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.680 where there's heavy traffic. But when I lived in l A. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.120 I used to have to always think, all right, well, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.360 this would take me forty five minutes normally. So and 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.720 when you work in the movie business, you you can't 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.680 be late. That's just not one of the things you do. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.000 You've got to be there on time or early. So 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.120 you're like, well, it's supposed to take me forty five minutes, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.760 I'm gonna give myself like two hours. I gave myself 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.040 more than double to get anywhere I needed to go. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.040 That's that's very smart. It's awful, is what it is. Yeah. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.840 L A's kind of bad, but chuck, we have it 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.680 pretty bad too. Yeah, Land is really bad. Among like 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.800 probably I think the top three or four. I heard 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.200 a year or so ago that Atlanta had toppled l A. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.720 But I never saw any citation. Well all those It 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.200 depends on how they are rating it. Some they rate 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.600 the differently, like the amount of time you spend in 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.800 your car commuting or the amount of time you sit idoling, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.280 So it kind of depends. But Atlanta's way up there. Boston, Seattle, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.880 San Francisco. Actually I think Boston's absent from that. Oh really, 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.600 I think that they have made some moves that have 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.320 kind of mitigated traffic and gotten them off some of 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.760 the I know, the Big Dig was messing everything up. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.640 The Big Dig was just killing people. Yeah, and d 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.160 C is awful. Have you ever driven around there? Uh No, 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.480 I haven't. You was talking about how especially during the summer, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.240 during the travel or the tourist season, it's just mind numbing, 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.439 is yeah. I mean way out into the suburbs in 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:51.960 Virginia and Maryland sitting there. You know what they did 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:53.600 in l A that I saw one time that had 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.120 never seen was I was going down the highway one 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.560 day and I noticed everyone was slowing down. And I 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.560 looked up ahead on the express Ay and there were 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:10.400 to California Highway patrol cars doing huge slow ses back 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.480 and forth on the six lanes of expressway, not letting, 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.200 like keeping everyone back like a nask, like a like 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.319 a paste. Yeah, like a pace car. But you know 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.120 they weren't driving straight. They were driving these big s. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.480 Is like, don't go by me. I've never seen that 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.400 before in my life. What would have made it even 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.200 funnier is if they've been driving those s with their 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.920 hands out their window and their guns just shooting into 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.480 the area while they were doing it. That would really say, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.800 don't drive past me. Yeah, that would have been great. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.280 And apparently that was they do that. It's a I 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.360 don't know what they call it, but that's too slow 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:48.560 everyone down. It's called being a yes. And on that note, 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.080 my friend Derek has a joke about Atlanta traffic, and 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.760 he's right, because Atlanta before their traffic, everyone's driving really 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:59.720 really what fast. Yeah, that's one of the great characteristics 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.559 about Atlanta. As far as I'm concerned, you go as 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.800 fast as you can. I mean, the the average um 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.440 flow of traffic I would say, is about seventy miles 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.800 an hour around here. And that's with like a lot 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.440 of people all around you. Yeah, everybody's bumper, a bumper 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.720 going at least seventy, and the cops don't pull you 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.000 over unless you're going over seventy and even then, like 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.920 it's usually like you're going eighty or ninety when you 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.640 get pulled over because everybody else is going seventy. Right, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.200 And that's my buddy Derek's joke is in Atlanta, and 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.400 it's really true. It's not a joke. Everyone drives as 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.199 fast as they can every day until someone and then 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.560 someone wrecks, right, and then traffic backs up every single day. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:39.199 That's Atlanta traffic. Are we done? So let's just sit 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.000 here and do traffic stories, just talk about what what 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.000 angers us? So check there's a lot of smart people 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.520 who study traffic because, like you said, there's um, what 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.240 was it, how much money in two seventy eight billion 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.560 just from fuel and wasted time? Yeah, because think about it, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.760 a person's time is money, right, and if you're sitting 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.440 in traffic and sure one of those jerks like me 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.360 who has an iPhone that emails while he's driving, then 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.560 you're wasting money, right. Um. And actually there was this 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.040 there's a group called the Commute Solutions that are out 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.240 of Santa Cruz and they calculated the actual cost per 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.480 mile of driving, not just traffic, but driving to each 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:24.319 person is one point nineteen one dollar nineteen cents per mile. Yea, 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.080 and that includes everything. I don't know how they came 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.480 up with that number, but check it out. Well, if 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.120 we're talking about highways and stats, we might as well 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.880 talk about the same. Texas group did a study and 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.400 um they found that traffic over the past years has 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.800 increased a and by they predict it will go up 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:52.160 another And here's what's remarkable. One only one of all 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.520 our roads are highways, yet they shoulder half the traffic, 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.400 half the car travel. Yeah. Crazy, It is crazy. And 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.160 you don't usually think about when you think about traffic. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.000 I usually think about the highway myself, although I rarely 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.760 get on the highway anymore. It's all surface streets that 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.439 I take to and from work. Yeah, what do you go? 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:17.400 Druid Hills Piedmont and I go basically up Piedmont r um. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.679 But it's it's traffic every day. But I don't think 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.200 of it as traffic. When I think of traffic, I 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.880 think of seventy five at rush hour and just like 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.920 UH exit ramps backed up the the thing is is 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.480 our surface streets are also intended to handle overflow of 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.000 highway traffic. Right, not just people who are backed up 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:39.959 from the exit ramp back onto the street, but I 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.640 mean people who are making a conscious decision like me 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.640 to find a different way that doesn't have anything to 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.680 do with the highway. Right. And they found that if 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:53.120 you want to widen a highway, I think we talked 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.480 about this in like the urban planning one, um that 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.280 when you when you widen the highway, Um, there's something 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.199 called latent demand. It's a theory that if you want 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:05.920 in the highway, people like me are going to be like, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.120 oh well, now there's a leven lanes instead of five, 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.560 so I'll just hop on the highway. And so the 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.320 demand increases in step with the widening of the lanes. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.560 So it actually doesn't mitigate anything by adding more lanes 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:19.640 to a highway, right. I think they said the only 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.960 way that will work is if they outpaced demand with lanes, 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.160 and that just doesn't happen. There's too many cars. But 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.720 that kind of makes sense to throw that money then 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.720 instead into upfront costs for a light rail system. Yeah, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.200 you know, you hippie, I actually I'm still holding up 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.960 for personal rapid transit. That was a palette in me podcast, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.200 but it was interesting. It's a good one. Uh, ramp metering, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.440 if if you're talking about solutions, that's another one. And 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:50.720 they had these in l A. And they have them 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.880 here in Atlanta now. It's where when you go to 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.840 get on the highway. Now they have stop lights that 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.199 just allow like one car through every few seconds. So 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.120 you know, when you get on at Freedom Parkway, I 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.520 used to fly around that and jump into traffic and 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.840 squeeze in however I could, and um, that's you know, 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.400 I was one of those jerks causing traffic. Well, I 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.880 think anybody entering is that, because again with traffic, especially 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.120 with just straight up congestion, there's just too many cars 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.040 in one place, especially when you have a line of 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.480 traffic and then more people directly adding to that lane. Yeah. Right, 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.680 But ramp metering really really works. They did a study 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.720 in Minnesota. They have four d and thirty rant meters 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.280 and in two thousand they shut them all down for 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:41.400 seven weeks and during that time traffic accidents increased. And 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.120 then afterward they re reinstituted it and they saw the 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.320 capacity increased by fourteen, and they walked away from that 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:53.960 project going like with their hands in their pockets. Yeah, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.880 like we should probably not tell anybody about that. Yeah. 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:58.440 I was trying to do a Minnesota accent, but that 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.360 was pretty good. I couldn't do it. I said it 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.280 was Oh, I know, it wasn't bad though, that's how 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.720 they say it. H O V lanes is another thing 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.160 that they've done pretty much countrywide, carpool lanes as help. 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.360 I always forget when I have another person in the car, though, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.680 Uh yeah, I'll get like halfway where I'm going and say, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.840 oh man, let's get in the carpoal lane. Yeah. I 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.680 have to say though. The h O V lane, to me, 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.800 it's it's an extension of the fast lane. So you 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.200 get the fast ling and then you have the h 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.600 O V lane, And I hate it when it's the 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.480 fast lane is just the fast ling. The HOV lan 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.640 is like, I drive as slow as I want, but 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.200 I have, you know, four people in my car, agreed, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.360 it makes it difficult. It's it's kind of like the 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.240 h O V lane to me is you have two 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.000 or more people and you're willing to drive ten miles 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.440 faster than anybody else on the highway agreed. And since 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.000 we talked about pet peeves in our last podcast. My 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.000 one of my largest pet peeves is when I'm sitting 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.240 in traffic and I'll see people speeding by me in 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.800 the H O V lane by themselves. Nothing bothers me 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.960 more than people that think the rules don't apply to them. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.480 I hate that time. I hate those people or people 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.400 who um use the shoulder and just drive along in 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.880 traffic as far as they can to get like fifty 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.000 cars ahead. Yeah. I almost got plowed over in l 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:11.560 A one time. I was getting out to get in 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.440 the regular exit lane and almost got creamed by a 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.120 truck that was on the shoulder. And I screamed at 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:18.880 him that he almost killed me, and he says, what 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.960 are you a cop? That's l A for you? It 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:24.720 was like, he literally almost killed me. What are you 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.360 a cop? If you were a cop, you'd be making 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.840 lazy s's in front of trying firing my gun into 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:34.440 the air. Exactly what else, Josh, Uh, there's lanes. We 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.720 already talked about that. Whether there's that one, then there's 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:42.640 um probably the most uh contentious idea congestion pricing, which 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.120 is basically taxing people to drive. And there's a guy 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.520 named Alistair Darling. I don't know if he's still the 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.120 Transportation secretary baby something. You have a rock star in 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.920 the transportation world, because he was a huge proponent of this, 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.960 and he said in England. In England, yeah, he was 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.040 the British Transportation in secretary. He basically said, you know, 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:08.160 cars exact a toll on the environment and on the road, um, 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.520 just by driving on him, So we should charge people 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.240 to drive on the roads. What he failed to mention 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.960 is that we already do. There are things called taxes 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.400 and those are meant to pay for the roads. Right, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:23.159 he's forgetting about, you know, all the other misused money. Um. 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.600 But they did actually have one in Great Britain. Do 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.000 they still chuck, No, I don't think they ever instituted. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.240 They had a pilot program from two thousand three to 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:37.600 seven and it worked like a champ for him in 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.520 London at least. Yeah, there was a thirty percent dropping congestion, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:48.240 decrease in in fossil fuel consumption, decrease in CEO two emissions, 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.840 So like in London, Singapore, Stockholm, San Francisco, San Francisco, 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.040 did they institute one No, San Francisco is studying a 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.000 New York Bloomberg has proposed it and they've studied it. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.720 And I just pulled this from this week. Actually, Lord 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.919 Adonis is actually he's the Transport Secretary. Unless it's a 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.600 new guy. What was your guy? His name is Lord Adonis. 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.240 Lord Adonis, the Transport Secretary came up with a new 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.560 hotel student. Yeah, that's where Joshuly staying in New York 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.399 under Lord uh he It says it's ruled out the 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.880 introduction of a national road pricing for the next parliament. 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.280 But they uncovered that civil servants are still involved with 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.240 the project and spending money on research even though they 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.960 supposedly took it off the table. It was kind of 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.919 a secret that they were still like tinkering with ou. 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.720 I thought you were like saying this, these people were 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.480 paying for this research on their own paychecks. No, but 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.080 they've sunk seven point two million pounds that I guess 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.280 the public didn't know. They thought it was off the table. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.119 So they're kind of under some hot water, in some 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.280 hot water. They're they're in some deep quicksand yeah, they 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.040 said Golden Brown and Alista Dawling had been caught red 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:04.240 handed planning a spy in the sky sis him nice. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.800 because I guess we should probably explain congestion pricing. Basically 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.720 every car on the road. I guess when you would 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.240 go get your vehicle tag or something, you also get 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:18.119 a radio frequency identifier, right, and as you're driving, some 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.080 satellite is tracking you, or you pass through some sector 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.040 or something like that, and all of a sudden you're 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.680 being you're in a toll area and much like say, uh, 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.520 one of those toll passes UM, you are sent a 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.720 bill or there's like you have to set up like 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.320 a credit card or a bank account, attach that to 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.880 your to your tag, and it just draws money from 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.879 it based on however much you drive in there. In Singapore, 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:51.120 when they first instituted, there's an actually in UM they 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.720 had a flat rate for downtown, which is the most 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.560 congested during peak hours. You had to pay three bucks 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.800 to just drive around downtown. You could drive around all wanted. Uh. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.800 And as they as as they've gotten better at it, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.560 they're they're getting a little fancy schmancy with it, you know, like, um, well, 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.479 if you want to drive here, it's a dollar seventy 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.359 d for twenty minutes, but you can back, you know, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.960 two blocks over and it's just fifty cents and so on. Well, 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.159 that's one of the rubs that um, one of the 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.200 big things is is in England at least in other 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.240 places too. I think they've suggested paying more for peak 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.520 hour so be flexible in your work schedule. But then 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.240 of course people that are a friend of the poor 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:33.320 say that's progressive taxation because white collar dudes can be 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.639 all flexible and work from home, but the poor have 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:37.280 to get up and go to work during peak hours. 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.480 So you're they're basically paying for the road that the 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.560 rich man drives on. Exactly, That's exactly right, and that's 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.160 the big problem. I mean, aside from having to pay 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:50.840 to drive with with a with a congestion tax. Yeah, um, 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.119 what else can you do? Chuck? And also remember we 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.720 were talking it's this isn't just highways surface streets to everybody, 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:01.399 don't get all anxious, we're talking about surface streets as well. Yes, uh, 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.080 surface streets you get a lot of suburban sprawl, you know, 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.320 like here in Atlanta, you've got like out in Roswell 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.639 twenty years ago, it was it was kind of desolate 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:15.680 cow patties and now it's all uh, you know, young 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.840 families moving out there who don't want to be around 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.399 urban types. Yeah, and you have a lot of a 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:26.440 lot more cars. Um you have again that that one 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.080 of two ways that you can cause traffic. Just put 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.760 more cars on a road than it than it's designed 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:33.359 to hand. And then out in the boonies like that. 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.600 They weren't built for you know, they were built for farmland. 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.480 All of a sudden they got these suburban people moving 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.320 out there, and so traffic lights is something they can do. Yeah, 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.840 this one disturbed me. Um that even the so you 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.360 have a traffic light that is on a timer, right, yeah, 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:53.040 which is so much, especially when they're poorly timed. Decator 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.239 is awful. Yes, yeah, decator is awful. There's another one 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.920 for the Piedmont Park parking deck and it just does 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.560 whatever it wants, no matter what time and day, and 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:05.520