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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You. From how Supports

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline

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Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen. We have a special guest today and

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Speaker 1: that is Polly Fry. Oh my god, we're borrowing another

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Speaker 1: podcaster I love to come and visits. Well, I love

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Speaker 1: it too. And Holly Fry, for those of you who

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Speaker 1: have been living under a podcast rock for a while,

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Speaker 1: is co host of Stuff He Missed in History class,

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Speaker 1: so wildly popular history podcast. This word sounds odd and

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Speaker 1: stressful to me, but I'm just speaking the truth. Well,

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Speaker 1: you are wild and you are stressful. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: a weird eighties power film for women. Suddenly you are wild. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: we are wearing shoulder pads and power suits as we

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Speaker 1: sit here, because that's what one does wear when talking

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Speaker 1: about Queen Victoria, are you naturally? That's right? And we

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Speaker 1: are also wearing giant crotchless underpants to accompany this episode

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, that's not your usual jam or not

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Speaker 1: not on Wednesdays? No, not usually a right then? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but no, that is a reference actually to Queen Victoria's

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Speaker 1: under where I'm not just throwing out random panty references. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and if people listen to our history of Banty's episode,

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Speaker 1: they would know that Fanty's undepends. We did a history

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Speaker 1: on undergarment's way back when I first was on History,

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Speaker 1: when Sarah was still here, and we talked at length

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Speaker 1: about that. And if you want, I have a little

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Speaker 1: soapbox about Queen Victoria's undergarments and some of the press

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Speaker 1: coverage they got. Well, I definitely want to hear this.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely think that this is relevant to today's conversation.

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Speaker 1: I do want to throw out there that this is

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen Queen week on stuff. Mom never told

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Speaker 1: you we're talking about Queen Victoria and also a female

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Speaker 1: queen of Egypt, a female pharaoh. So chips Thatt chips that, who.

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Speaker 1: I don't think war bifurcated garments as her under ruse,

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Speaker 1: as her under ruse. Yeah, if she even had under ruse,

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Speaker 1: I doubt she did. Well, Holly, should we kick off

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Speaker 1: with your soapbox? Should we? Should we start off talking

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Speaker 1: about underpants underwhere Lady No. It comes up all the

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Speaker 1: time in the History podcast because I like to talk

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Speaker 1: about clothes in fashion and I really do like to

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Speaker 1: talk about foundation garments to a degree that might be

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Speaker 1: suspect to something. Um. So one of the things that

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Speaker 1: happened a couple of years ago, there were numerous little

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Speaker 1: pockets of quote news I'm doing the air quotes about

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Speaker 1: sort of the discovery of this pair of pantalettes that

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Speaker 1: had been Queen Victoria's, and they talked about the amazing

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Speaker 1: girth and how huge they were, and because it had

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Speaker 1: like a forty four inch waist of this is off

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Speaker 1: the top of my head. Um. But here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean her waist is forty four She went stout.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying she was willowy. But those

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Speaker 1: undergarments one the whole we fascination that people have with

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Speaker 1: them not having a closed crotch. That is an issue

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Speaker 1: of necessity to go to the bathroom. Um. And that

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Speaker 1: is also why there is so much fabric at the top,

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Speaker 1: because if it were fitted and they had to go

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Speaker 1: to the bathroom, it would actually be more difficult to

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Speaker 1: kind of maneuver things out of the way. But they

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Speaker 1: had all of this extra fabric that they could kind

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Speaker 1: of pull up around their hips so that when they

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Speaker 1: sat there there was much reduced risk of getting any

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Speaker 1: of their under things dirty. So there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of drawstring there gathering in an awful lot of fabric

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Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah, but it's because of that news

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Speaker 1: article that came out talking about her her underpants. Uh that. Now,

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Speaker 1: anytime anyone says Queen Victoria, in my head, I have

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Speaker 1: this weird split screen mental image of Queen Victoria, like

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Speaker 1: in profile and some of those photographs where she was

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Speaker 1: very sad and in mourning and her underpants. She's the

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Speaker 1: only person if you say, like Christen Conger or Holly

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Speaker 1: and I just picture your face. Is not your underpants

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Speaker 1: because I've never seen them, I guess, But Queen Victoria, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now I do, No, Queen Victoria. I just I picture

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Speaker 1: her face, like you know those cat like glamour shots

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Speaker 1: where there's there's several pictures in one picture of a

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Speaker 1: man holding a cat sort of how I imagine Queen

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Speaker 1: Victoria and her underpants. All right, But anyway, that's started.

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Speaker 1: The danger right of being a public figure is history

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Speaker 1: will kind of piece together a bizarre quilt of images

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Speaker 1: of what you are, and that like, long after your

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Speaker 1: reigns and podcasts, there's gonna be talking about your underpants,

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Speaker 1: I should say, which she would not want to have discuss. No, No,

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Speaker 1: she she definitely definitely lived a stricter lifestyle where people

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Speaker 1: did not talk about underpants. True, But she was also

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Speaker 1: very forthright. Um, you know, when she died, and we'll

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Speaker 1: maybe get to this later, we could go all over

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Speaker 1: the map in chronology, her youngest daughter, Beatrice, actually destroyed

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Speaker 1: a lot of the Queen's journals because she thought she

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Speaker 1: was just way too blunt and forth and shared way

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Speaker 1: too much information. It was way too direct, because she

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Speaker 1: wrote something like words a day, just as habits, just

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Speaker 1: to keep her you know, writing boys, to keep her

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Speaker 1: mind stimulated, to be documenting. I mean, she understood that

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Speaker 1: as a sovereign, you know, she needed to be documenting

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Speaker 1: her days. But a lot of that is lost to us. Now.

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Speaker 1: Oh I hate that because Beatrice and some of them, Um,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, don't quote me on this, because

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Speaker 1: this is off the top of my head. I think

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Speaker 1: there are some that still exists, but that Beatrice heavily edited,

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Speaker 1: like she kind of rewrote some stuff to make it

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Speaker 1: a little more nicely nice and not so abrupt in

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Speaker 1: certain cases, and so direct and in thought Beatrice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Beatrice is not many historians will bad mouth Beatrice. Everybody's

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Speaker 1: the hero of their own piece. So I'm sure Beatrice

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Speaker 1: had her own reasons. Uh, there's you know, surely fascination there.

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Speaker 1: But it does suck that we lost so much of

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Speaker 1: that record. Yeah, so, Holly, one thing that I want

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Speaker 1: to know is why you are personally fascinated with Victoria,

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Speaker 1: because that was the big reason why we wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to you today, because we said, hey, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should come on and talk about queens, and immediately he

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Speaker 1: knew who you wanted to talk about, because you love

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Speaker 1: Queen Victoria. Well, now I know that you guys have

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Speaker 1: not taken a good look at my desk because I

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Speaker 1: have always had a picture of her on my desk. No,

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Speaker 1: I haven't be wearing a picture of her right now.

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Speaker 1: She's I love her. I have a bizarre attachment to her.

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Speaker 1: Uh And when I was younger, I think it first

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Speaker 1: started when I, uh, you know, had sort of that

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Speaker 1: small little gleaning of history that you get in regular

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Speaker 1: history classes, and especially when your student, like me, he

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Speaker 1: was maybe not always pankless attention, but I just love

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Speaker 1: the fact that there was this woman who was you know,

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Speaker 1: within these confines of in some ways fairly rigid society.

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Speaker 1: But she still really had a strong sense of self

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Speaker 1: and a strong will. And her birthdays like the day

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Speaker 1: before mine. So when you're like sixteen seven, that seems

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Speaker 1: super cool. And then, um, I think our listeners on

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Speaker 1: history now, so I don't think I'm gonna surprise anybody.

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Speaker 1: Not really a kids person, uh and neither was she,

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Speaker 1: even though she had nine of her own, Like particularly

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Speaker 1: babies really kind of ooked her out. So there's like

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Speaker 1: a kinship for me there. Uh. And you know, initially

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Speaker 1: she really resisted marriage, which is a phase I certainly

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Speaker 1: went through in my younger years. And then suddenly she

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Speaker 1: met Albert and wanted to get married, which is exactly

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Speaker 1: what happened to me when I met my husband. Uh

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Speaker 1: So there are just some parallels that made me feel

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Speaker 1: a kinship, but also just I mean, what a wealth

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Speaker 1: of history. She's like the longest running female ruler I

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Speaker 1: think in history. She did some amazing things. She really

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Speaker 1: established so many of the really important parts of Great

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Speaker 1: Britain's history in terms of like museums in public spaces,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of that has to do with Albert

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Speaker 1: of course, but she's just fascinating smart. I think people

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Speaker 1: think Victorian and they always think buttoned up, but when

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Speaker 1: you listen to like accounts of her grandchildren and stuff,

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Speaker 1: she was hilarious and full of laughter, and she loved

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Speaker 1: to paint and she was very into the arts. And

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Speaker 1: so there's a complexity there that I really love. I

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Speaker 1: love thinking of her as somebody's crazy grandmother, because you

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Speaker 1: don't you don't think of Queen Victoria as somebody's You

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Speaker 1: barely think of her somebody's mother, but you definitely don't

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Speaker 1: think of her somebody's grandmother. And it's just it's funny,

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Speaker 1: how if somebody is your own parent or I mean

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Speaker 1: she was also sort of a tyrannical mother in law,

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Speaker 1: uh in one case in particular that I can think of.

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Speaker 1: But it's harder, I think, to get along with a

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Speaker 1: difficult parent than it is somebody that you can just

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Speaker 1: kind of dismiss and and love as a crazy grandparent.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, even if you know she is the queen.

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Speaker 1: But also I think, you know, she has this image

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Speaker 1: of being a very cold mother, and she certainly cared

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Speaker 1: for her children. Her own relationship with her mother was

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Speaker 1: so complex, um and particularly after her mother died. You know,

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Speaker 1: Albert really tried a lot to kind of mend that

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Speaker 1: fence between them and like figure out a way that

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Speaker 1: she and her mother could have a relationship going forward,

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Speaker 1: particularly once they had their first child. It became really

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Speaker 1: really important to him, and you know, Victoria was open

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Speaker 1: to that and they did sort of forge a relationship,

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Speaker 1: but it really wasn't until after her mother died and

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Speaker 1: then she was reading like her mother's diaries and letters

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Speaker 1: that she realized that her mother was in fact devoted

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Speaker 1: to her and loved her, had been maybe misguided in

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Speaker 1: how she had raised her, and that really made her

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Speaker 1: hate Conroy more than ever. Oh yeah, we haven't even

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Speaker 1: talked about Conway. Okay, okay, So let's back up a

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Speaker 1: little bit and let's talk about who she is, where

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Speaker 1: she came from, how we even got her to be

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Speaker 1: queen um. So a few details. She was born eighteen

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Speaker 1: and nineteen at Kensington Palace, and she was named Princess

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Speaker 1: Alexandrina Victoria and Alexandrina's kind of a different name for

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Speaker 1: someone born in London. Well, her godfather was actually Ember

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Speaker 1: Alexander the First of Russia. Uh, which is where that

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Speaker 1: came from it's the female derivative. So and her mother,

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Speaker 1: of course was Victoire, So she was named Victoria after

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Speaker 1: her mother. They had actually considered some other names, and

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Speaker 1: her uncle, George the Fourth was like, he put the

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Speaker 1: X name on some names. I'm trying to remember them.

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Speaker 1: I want to say there was maybe a Sa Carolina

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Speaker 1: in the mix being considered, and I don't remember what else,

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Speaker 1: but but yeah, they just didn't want they didn't want

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Speaker 1: this person from a weird lineage to have special royal name.

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Speaker 1: I'm not percent clear on what the decision was there.

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Speaker 1: I haven't done deep enough historical dive on that one,

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Speaker 1: but I know he was basically like, I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: to approve this. It has to go through me, and

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Speaker 1: you're not going to be named any of these other

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Speaker 1: fancy names. Well, you mentioned her mother. That was the

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Speaker 1: widow to Victoire, Duchess of amar Bak a more Bok.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure the pronunciation, but I love that name.

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Speaker 1: And she was married to Victoria's father, Edward, Duke of Kent,

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Speaker 1: who actually died shortly after she was born. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: didn't really know her father all that. Well, Um, there's

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Speaker 1: actually a whole fun side story here about whether or

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Speaker 1: not he was really her father. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: like uh, juicy history things. It can also be completely dismissed.

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Speaker 1: But here's the scoop. So A Ann Wilson, who was

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Speaker 1: a journalist and biographer that you've referenced, he put forth

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Speaker 1: this theory uh while back, that really Sir John Conroy

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Speaker 1: was more likely the father of Victoria because her father

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Speaker 1: had been really pretty elderly when she was born, the

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Speaker 1: kind of suggestion being that maybe not so virile at

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Speaker 1: that point and possibly not able to father a child,

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Speaker 1: Whereas Conroy was the same age as her mother. They

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Speaker 1: a very close relationship. It was rumored all over the

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Speaker 1: place that they had a sexual relationship. Whether or not

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Speaker 1: that's true, we do not know for certain. Uh. There's

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Speaker 1: other supporting evidence. So in addition to the Duke of

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Speaker 1: Kent having been elderly and possibly not capable, hemophilia suddenly

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Speaker 1: appeared in the bloodline where it had not been before.

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Speaker 1: So Victoria's children and their various issue have hemophilia in

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Speaker 1: the bloodline. However, that's one of those things that her

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Speaker 1: father would have had to have had it to pass

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Speaker 1: it down. Uh, And Conrade did not, so we don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was maybe something that had been in

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Speaker 1: the bloodline and just hadn't presented. The other evidence that

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Speaker 1: Wilson suggests is that porphyria had been in the bloodline,

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Speaker 1: which is what King George the Third was supposed to

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Speaker 1: have had, and then it vanishes from the bloodline after

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Speaker 1: this point. However, there is some more modern evidence that

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Speaker 1: really the porphyria diagnosis is not correct, uh, and that

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Speaker 1: it's something else that was causing George's madness. Uh. So

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Speaker 1: all of that can be contradicted, but it is an

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Speaker 1: interesting side note. There's also uh, some historical rumoring that

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Speaker 1: Albert was not entirely legitimate, and that really the thing

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Speaker 1: that people who really kind of pushed this theory point

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Speaker 1: out that, you know, if they were both mixing in

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Speaker 1: bloodline that was not there before, they probably strengthened all

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Speaker 1: the houses of Europe. And for one, naing Victorian Albert

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Speaker 1: had nine children and they all lived to adulthood, which

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Speaker 1: at the time was not super common. So for of

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Speaker 1: them to have had such a healthy family, if they

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Speaker 1: had continued in their sort of you know, royal blood

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Speaker 1: bloodlines without any mix in, would have been a lot

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Speaker 1: more unlikely, but it seemed to work just fine. So

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Speaker 1: that's just a food for thought. I love it, and

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Speaker 1: I love how your eyes just get bigger and bigger

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Speaker 1: with everything I say. And regardless though of whether Conroy

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Speaker 1: was or wasn't her biological dad, he definitely played a

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Speaker 1: significant role with Victoire her mom in Victoria's upbring and

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Speaker 1: this whole Kensington system thing, Yeah, what's up of that?

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Speaker 1: It makes my stomach hurt. The Kensington system was pitched

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Speaker 1: to Victoria as this whole set of rules that was

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Speaker 1: going to keep her safe, uh, and that it was

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Speaker 1: for her her best interests, but really it was kind

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Speaker 1: of limiting her in terms of social development and just

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Speaker 1: in terms of like her being able to be self sufficient.

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Speaker 1: It was almost like they wanted to infantalize her forever.

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Speaker 1: So that uh, the theory being that Conroy and Victoria's

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Speaker 1: mother kind of wanted to have power over her always,

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Speaker 1: like they recognize this as their into power because Conroy

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Speaker 1: was her personal secretary, okay, uh, And basically she couldn't

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Speaker 1: do anything for herself. She could never be alone. She

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Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to walk up or downstairs without holding someone's hand,

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Speaker 1: and this is not something that only happened when she

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Speaker 1: was like five, we're talking when she was seventeen. She

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Speaker 1: would have to wait for like her governess or her

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Speaker 1: mother or somebody to come and take her hands so

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Speaker 1: she could go up and down the stairs. And it

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Speaker 1: made her crazy. Um, you know, she was constantly champing

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Speaker 1: at the bits because she felt so limited. She had

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Speaker 1: to sleep in her room with her mother every night.

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Speaker 1: She just had no sense of independence, and it was

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Speaker 1: something that really, as she got older, just really grated

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Speaker 1: on her. And the older she got and the more

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Speaker 1: sort of self aware she got and started questioning these things,

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Speaker 1: it just made her resent her mother so much. And

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Speaker 1: of course Conroy, but that's really where like the huge

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Speaker 1: rift in their relationship kind of forms. Is this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: with any kid, whether you're royal or not. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a normal part of childhood development that you get

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Speaker 1: some independence and you start making decisions for yourself and

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Speaker 1: you start testing the waters of the world. And she

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Speaker 1: had no opportunity to do that, but all of the

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Speaker 1: impulse to do so, so she just felt constantly frustrated.

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Speaker 1: Well so the reason behind this effort to kind of

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Speaker 1: keep her childlike and infantilize her and keep her powerless.

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Speaker 1: That had to do a lot with Was it Victoria

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Speaker 1: thinking that she could be the queen regent wield power?

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Speaker 1: That was one of the things There is some there

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Speaker 1: are some question marks about how much of this was

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Speaker 1: actually her mother's idea versus how much of it was

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Speaker 1: Conroy kind of planting the idea. Conroy really certainly for me,

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Speaker 1: I'll say, um, you know you're supposed to stay a

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Speaker 1: little more objective, but I have difficulty doing that in

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Speaker 1: Victoria's case. He kind of really does emerge though, is

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Speaker 1: the villain of the piece. I mean, the evidence that

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Speaker 1: continues to stack up against him when you kind of

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Speaker 1: analyze all of the various moves that were made around

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Speaker 1: Victoria's life and kind of the strong hand he wanted

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Speaker 1: to take in her upbringing and how he did. I mean,

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Speaker 1: her mother apparently had these impulses to be much more

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Speaker 1: warm with her and carrying with her and give her

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Speaker 1: what she wanted, but Conroy was insistent that that would

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Speaker 1: be damaging to the plan. And whether he pitched that

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Speaker 1: as no, no, we're doing what's best for your daughter,

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Speaker 1: or hey, you and me, we're gonna get some power

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Speaker 1: out of this jam is a little bit cloudy. Um,

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Speaker 1: but he does seem to have been the one manipulating everything.

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Speaker 1: Makes me think he's a weasel. Well, then on June seven,

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Speaker 1: she becomes queen at just eighteen years old, and it

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Speaker 1: seems like any pressure that might have been relieved from

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Speaker 1: her maybe stepping away from sitting into her own perhaps

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Speaker 1: in that regard, was just replaced with the pressure to

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Speaker 1: get a husband already. It was like, let's protect you

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Speaker 1: and keep you as a baby, and don't walk downstairs

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Speaker 1: by yourself, switching immediately to get a husband get married. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there was also the whole element of you know,

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Speaker 1: her uncle King William kind of recognized that things were

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Speaker 1: really dicey with Conroy and Victori, and like he did

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Speaker 1: not like what was going on. He really wanted to

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Speaker 1: have a close relationship with his niece. She was you

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Speaker 1: know the air uh, and they really kept them apart,

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Speaker 1: they kept her from him, And on what was his

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Speaker 1: last birthday party at a banquet, he made this really impassioned, angry,

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Speaker 1: no holds barred speech basically talking about what a horrible

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Speaker 1: person her mother was. She was seventeen at the time.

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Speaker 1: She was I think nine months from her eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 1: He was, you know, getting on in years, and he

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Speaker 1: basically was like, I just got to hang on till

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Speaker 1: this kid he hits eighteen, because I am not letting

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Speaker 1: you sit as regent. Like he was really adamant that,

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Speaker 1: like he was gonna just live until Victoria's birthday, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, he died like three weeks after she turned eighteen.

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Speaker 1: So it did kind of seem like he was just

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Speaker 1: clinging to life until he knew that the the throne

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Speaker 1: was the succession he wanted and not Conroy and Victori's. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's not like you know, Victoria had any grief

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Speaker 1: stricken moments of reconciliation with her mother after William's passing,

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Speaker 1: because she immediately jettison's Victoire and John over to the

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Speaker 1: other side of Buckingham Palace and was like, get away

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Speaker 1: from me, and also, could I have one hour by

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Speaker 1: myself a day in my own bedroom. Please, Hello, I'm

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Speaker 1: a queen now. But because she was not married, this

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Speaker 1: is part of the pressure to get married, and it

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Speaker 1: was some of what she wanted, um and also some

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Speaker 1: of what you know, the public expected. But in some

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Speaker 1: ways she wanted freedom, but sort of the catch twenty

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Speaker 1: two is that she couldn't live even though she was

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Speaker 1: queen apart from her mother and so um Melbourne, who

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Speaker 1: was the Prime minister at the time, was like, well,

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Speaker 1: then you have to get married. Like if you want,

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Speaker 1: if you really want to like boot her, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to get married. Uh. And in fact, she um

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Speaker 1: she would turn down any request by her mother to

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Speaker 1: see her. Uh. But again, if she wanted a permanent

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Speaker 1: exit from the the household, she was going to have

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Speaker 1: to get married. Yeah. And she met a couple of

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Speaker 1: of eligible dudes, right and and wasn't so taken until

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Speaker 1: she she met Albert. Isn't that right? Until she re

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Speaker 1: met her cousin. Everybody really wanted her and Albert as

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Speaker 1: a couple. That was kind of the arranged marriage that

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Speaker 1: the family was putting together. Uh. And it just turned

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Speaker 1: out that they got along fabulously and really adored each other.

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Speaker 1: There was also in that whole get married quick thing

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Speaker 1: an element she technically ruled over Hanover, but she couldn't

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Speaker 1: when she took the throne of England and Great Britain

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Speaker 1: and their many properties. Hanover still only recognized male sovereignty,

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Speaker 1: so she had to marry and bear a child before

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Speaker 1: she could take that portion of her title fully. So

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Speaker 1: that was another reason that people were like, if you

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Speaker 1: actually want all these things ings, you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: make the babies with a husband, which she was just like, really,

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Speaker 1: but she So they re met. They were first cousins,

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Speaker 1: not like this is not a distant cousins situation. They

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Speaker 1: were first cousins. They re meet in eighteen thirty nine.

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Speaker 1: She has to propose to him, because you can't choose

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Speaker 1: the queen. You can't go around proposing to the queen.

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Speaker 1: He was technically beneath her station, right, so he just couldn't,

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Speaker 1: Like a Disney movie thought, I mean, I mean until

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Speaker 1: until she like hates being a mother or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: they get married in eighteen forty and I loved Wilson's

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Speaker 1: characterization of their relationship. She says, this pair of extremely

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Speaker 1: strong characters was in for an extraordinary journey together when

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Speaker 1: they married. Both wanted power, neither wanted to surrender their independence.

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Speaker 1: More than in most marriages. There was a thunderous clash

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Speaker 1: of wills. There was, also, however, a deep bond from

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Speaker 1: the very first Yeah, I'm always a little careful with

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Speaker 1: Wilson I am. Uh. But one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I think is important to think about in looking at

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Speaker 1: their particular relationship, and I don't even like to characterize

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Speaker 1: it as like Albert had this big drive for power.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that was it. He just wanted to

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Speaker 1: sort of have I'm reluctant to call it power, but

396
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 1: he wanted the freedom to be able to actually do

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Speaker 1: things that would enact positive change. Like he was a

398
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Speaker 1: pretty he was keen on helping people. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: he took an interest in the working class. He was

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Speaker 1: really concerned about the living conditions of the poor in

401
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: a way that you know many royals were certainly not, uh,

402
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: And so he wanted that leverage. But also you have

403
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Speaker 1: to consider that they were very much in love and

404
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: we're husband and wife, but she was also the queen

405
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: and so apparently there were arguments over like are you

406
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: talking to me as a queen? Are you talking to

407
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: me as my wife? Like you we have to have

408
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: like an actual partnership, um, which you know, the growing

409
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: pains of any marriage at eighteen, I mean looks like

410
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Speaker 1: you know, with my fiance Andy's it's like, are you

411
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: talking to me as a podcaster or me as Kristen. Uh,

412
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: and the answer is always the podcast always. He just

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00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: loves being that close to power. Um. But what I

414
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: think is really lovely is uh her diary entry describing

415
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: their first night as husband and wife. I mean, she

416
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: really is just head over heels in love with him.

417
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Speaker 1: She's not gonna especially graphic, but she just talks about

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Speaker 1: like how incredible and blissful it is to her to

419
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Speaker 1: be embraced by someone who loves her and to be

420
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: told wonderful things by this caring man that she thinks

421
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: is so beautiful. So, you know, I mean, they're really

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of passion in that relationship, which

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Speaker 1: I think because of the additional stresses put upon it

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Speaker 1: by where they are in life, you know, both being

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Speaker 1: youthful and being the leaders of you know, a huge

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00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: number of people. Those are some stressors most of us

427
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Speaker 1: never have to encounter. So it does make sense to

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Speaker 1: me that there would be some arguments, especially since they

429
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: were really in many ways, you know, intellectually equals. So

430
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: it's a little tricky, picky waters to navigate well. And

431
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: it seems like though once she starts getting pregnant with

432
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: her first of nine children, she's essentially pregnant for the

433
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: next what like sixteen years or something. That allows Albert

434
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 1: to I mean, he kind of has to step in

435
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: and take over a little bit of her public life

436
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: when she isn't she isn't even allowed to be seen

437
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: in public when she's so far along. Yeah, and you

438
00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: know she her letters to her oldest daughter Vicky are

439
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,239
Speaker 1: a scream. I mean, there's such a read um. And

440
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: since we don't have a lot of her journals, in

441
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: some ways, that's really what we have of her thoughts

442
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: on marriage and children, and it is very blunt. You

443
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: can only imagine what was in the private journals. But

444
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: she really is like, don't get pregnant right away, don't

445
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: do it, like I wish I had had just a

446
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: year with your father alone before we started having children.

447
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: And she talks about she did not enjoy the early

448
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: motherhood stuff. She doesn't particularly care for infants. She finds

449
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: breastfeeding absolutely horrifying. She there's sort of a famous um

450
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a misquote where people like

451
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: to say that she called her daughters that were breastfeeding cows,

452
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: But she really kind of likened the whole thing to

453
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: like being the property of men and being livestock. It

454
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: wasn't like you're a cow. It was like, we're all

455
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: just turned into cows. It's not even fair. We have

456
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: no choice in the matter. Um. As much as she

457
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: was very love with Albert and they really did seem

458
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: to have just a really deep attachment and for the

459
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: most part, despite some conflicts, a pretty happy marriage, she

460
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: is not a big proponent of marriage in those letters

461
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: where she's like, you know, people don't have to get married.

462
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: I think women get married. They don't need to. There

463
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: was one instance where I am like, a woman of

464
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: fairly high social standing who had been I think in

465
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: her mid thirties, had passed away and she had been unmarried,

466
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: and for some people it is a big scandal, Like

467
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: who she's like, I don't know that her life wasn't

468
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: perfectly happy. I don't. I don't think she doesn't need

469
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: to do the mommy and wife thing. That's not for everybody.

470
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: It's not always fun. She really pitches this sort of

471
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: portrait of like, unfortunately women are trapped, like we have

472
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: to fulfill this role. We have to keep humans going

473
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: by making babies. Men don't always understand the best she

474
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: can hope for as a husband that kind of gets

475
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: it and you know, treats you with some respect, but like,

476
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: we just gotta kind of buckle down to deal with it.

477
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: She's she's not like it's beauty, well, wonderful, we get

478
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: the great honor of furthering the nation. She's kind of like, well,

479
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: I gotta do what you gotta do. That's so interesting.

480
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: I've never heard that about Victoria. Well, I wonder too,

481
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: And this might be possible, impossible to even speculate, but

482
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: what her reign would have been like if she could

483
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: have had the choice to have remained single and child free,

484
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: if that would have had any influence on I don't

485
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: know what she did. I mean, she ended up. I

486
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: mean she was an ambitious ruler nonetheless, but yeah, I

487
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: mean the first thought that comes to my head, which

488
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: is not a serious one, is that somebody would have

489
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: found her mother like shield with a letter opener before

490
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: long because she couldn't get her out of the house.

491
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: That's how that would have played, and she would have

492
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: become a murderer. Like she could boot Conroy right away

493
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: when she got married. She's like, you're out. You are

494
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: not allowed near me. This is the end of you,

495
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 1: but by convention she had to maintain living in the

496
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: same house with her mother Sonny dear. Yeah, yeah, and

497
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean the sort of lovely I don't know that

498
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: you would call it an irony, is that even though

499
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: she wasn't into particularly having babies, Um, it really was

500
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: the birth of her children, or the births of her

501
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: children that kind of helped fix a little bit of

502
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: her relationship with her mom. That was really when her

503
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: eldest daughter was born. Was really when Albert was like,

504
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: now would be a great time to try to like

505
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: maybe let your mom back into the family and let

506
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: her know her grandchild and not just put up a

507
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: stone wall on this one. Like wouldn't that be cool.

508
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: Let's all try to make a family here. That's well,

509
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: that's nice, especially after Victoria was raised in such a

510
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: sort of isolated Yeah. Yeah, why her kids had no isolation. Yeah,

511
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: the million of each other. Uh yeah. Oh, I want

512
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: to jump back to the Kensington thing. One of the

513
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: other things she really hated about this whole thing, and

514
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: I apologize that, it's what my mind earlier is that

515
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: they also would kind of truck her around England like

516
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: her mother and Conroy would take her on these tours

517
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: of England so crowds could come and see her, and

518
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: she just hated it. She didn't like it. I mean again,

519
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: they have given her like none of the real groundwork

520
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: to like handle people and be around people with comfort,

521
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: and yet they're like, here she is future ruer La

522
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: la la. She hated it. William hated it because he

523
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: felt like it was setting up this weird situation where

524
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: they were somehow rivals for the throne. Uh. It just

525
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: was awkward and gross. There's a lot of awkward and

526
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: gross things that went on in her childhood, just such

527
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: a lonely kid. It breaks my heart. Victoria. Yeah, I

528
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: mean it's like when I think about, like how she

529
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: sometimes struggled with like dealing with people and people not

530
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: just doing what she wanted or being challenged just like

531
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: well because she never got social skilled development time, like

532
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: she was always having to like she was doing the

533
00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: things when she was already queen that most of a

534
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: figure out in like elementary school when we're fighting over Plato,

535
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: Like she was having to develop that social and emotional

536
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: language as a ruler, and how it would affect her

537
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: rule and how she was perceived by the public at

538
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: an age when she should have not had to worry

539
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: about those things, and where were the people to walk

540
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: her up the stairs right? Well, in her her first

541
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: diary entry after she takes the throne, I think the

542
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: word alone appears like five times, but in like a

543
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: really blissful way, like I'm getting to sit alone. This

544
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: is the first time I've ever truly been alone. She's

545
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: just so happy to have time to herself. It seems

546
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: like given those circumstances growing up too, she lucked out

547
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: so much with Albert being the gym that at least

548
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: it seems like he was. It seems like Albert usually

549
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: gets pretty glowing reviews when it comes to being a

550
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: decent husband. And yeah, I mean I think he was

551
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: a good match for her, and that he kind of

552
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: had a gentler spirit, Like he was no less smart.

553
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: I mean, he was incredibly smart um, and he certainly

554
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: understood sort of the responsibility of their position. He was headstrong,

555
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: and that when he thought an idea was correct and

556
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: like was going to do some good, he would really

557
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: hang onto it. But he just had an ability to

558
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: kind of smooth things out and kind of counter her

559
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: episodes of you know a little bit more rageful behavior

560
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: at times and kind of just be like, okay, well,

561
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: well we're going to work through this. It's gonna be okay.

562
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 1: That does lead me to a question though about in

563
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: terms of her little rage behavior and and missteps. Now,

564
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: you mentioned we were talking about getting together for this

565
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: episode that there was one particular misstep in particular that

566
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about with Lady Hastings. Was that

567
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: pre or post marriage to Albert? I? It was pery,

568
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: It was pretty uh so, And we should talk a

569
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: little bit more too about how Albert was not super

570
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: loved when he first came on the scene like her.

571
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Her country did not embrace him as holy as she

572
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: did initially. But Lady Flora Hastings was had been Victoris

573
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: Lady in waiting, so already mark against her, and she

574
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: was a young woman. She started to develop the swelling

575
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: of the abdomen and this caused a lot of tongues

576
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: wagging that she had been impregnated out of wedlock by

577
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: Sir John Conroy. Always the villain. I mean, I feel

578
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: like he's like a Disney villain. He just pops up

579
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: in every opportunity of badness. Um and Victoria really kind

580
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: of uh found these rumors juicy and delightful and believed them,

581
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: and so she kind of helped spread them. She sort

582
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: of wanted uh, Lady Flora to undergo a physical examination

583
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: that was resisted for a while, but eventually Flora did

584
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: acquiesce and it turned out that the doctor found that

585
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: she was a virgin. So already Victoria looked a little

586
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: bit like a jerk. And then when Lady Flora Hastings

587
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: died several months later, it turned out that she had

588
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: a huge liver tumor. So then Victoria looked like a huge,

589
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: mean jerk and like basically a schoolyard bully that had

590
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: just you know, created misery for this poor girl. Um

591
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: that really really did not help her standing amongst her

592
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: people because she did look like a jerk. I mean,

593
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: she spread rumors and was mean to this poor woman

594
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: who was dying of a tumor. So how did you

595
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: recover from it? Slowly but surely? Um. And Albert was

596
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: a big part of that. You know, he even though

597
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: he wasn't initially super embraced, he was a foreigner, he

598
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: was you know, there's just some I don't know about

599
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: this because he really worked so diligently to try to

600
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: improve conditions for all of the classes of England, UM

601
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: in Great Britain. You know, he started a lot of

602
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: different sort of good works that kind of just slowly

603
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: built up. There were also several assassination attempts, which you

604
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: know kind of there is a natural public reaction even now,

605
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: like if a leader that is not particularly popular has

606
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: an attempt on their life, people tend to rally to

607
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: them and be like, no, no, you cannot do that

608
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: to our leader, even if they don't particularly like them.

609
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: One case, UM, someone had shot at her while she

610
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: was out in the carriage and missed, and they couldn't

611
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: identify who it had been in the crowd. So she

612
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going back out the next day, let's

613
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: see if he'll do it again. And so that kind

614
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: of made people go, man, she's cool. This woman is brazen.

615
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: I like her, so I mean little there are multiple

616
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: little steps like that that kind of helped win the

617
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: favor of of her people back over. Uh. And then

618
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: when Albert put together the the Great Exposition in eighteen

619
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: fifty one, that was another huge thing where you know,

620
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: they basically um first of all, they built Paxton's Great

621
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: Crystal Palace for it. We actually did a whole episode

622
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: on that and Stuff He Missed in History Class, which

623
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: is just architecturally phenomenal, and it kind of brought this

624
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: great level of culture. It was open to everyone. It

625
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: was really cool, and then they used the proceeds from

626
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: it to start the Victorian Albert Museum. Uh. And Albert's

627
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: whole thing was like, everyone should have access to culture.

628
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: Everyone should hear beautiful music, everyone should see art, everyone

629
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: should be exposed to all of these things. I don't

630
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: care if you're working class, I don't. We just we

631
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: all is a country need to have access to beautiful

632
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: arts and improved lives. And so of course it's gonna

633
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good jam to pitch. But unfortunately Albert

634
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: isn't going to be around for all of Victoria's reign,

635
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: or even close to all of her reign. And we're

636
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: going to talk about Albert's passing and how that impacts

637
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: the rest of Queen Victoria's role when we come right

638
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: back with Holly Fry from Stuff You Missed in History Class.

639
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: After a quick break and now to the show. Okay,

640
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: so before the break, we were talking with Holly all

641
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: about Victoria's early years growing up, being isolated from other children,

642
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: having to sort of grow up without knowing how to

643
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: interact well with other people. But then she meets, well remates,

644
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: her cousin, Albert. They fall in love. They've got this

645
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: great almost dual monarchy productive partnership going on. But then

646
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: tragedy strikes in eighteen sixty one when Albert dies and

647
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: some say it was stomach cancer, some say typhoid, some

648
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: say it was even Crohn's disease. But Holly, I'm interested

649
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: in hearing a little bit about leading up to what

650
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: was going on before Albert passed. So Victoria always blamed

651
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: their son, Bertie for the whole thing. Uh. He had

652
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: been away training. He was going to be, you know,

653
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: the next in line to take the throne. Uh. There

654
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: were rumors that there had been a woman in his

655
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: tent and that he, you know, kind of behaving in

656
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: ways that were not becoming to the future leader. And

657
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: Albert was very upset. He wrote this long, angry letter

658
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: to his son about what are you doing? This is

659
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: absolutely foolish? Uh, you know, do you have no respect

660
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: for your position in life? And then he ran off

661
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: to check on him, even though he was very ill already, uh,

662
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: and came back and he basically did not last much

663
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: longer after that. So in Victoria's head, there was a

664
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: clear cause and effect, and it was Birdie. However, Uh,

665
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 1: part of the problem is that Albert had been sick

666
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: for a long time before that, and his doctors had

667
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: not been entirely clear with Victoria about how grave the

668
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: situation was and truly how sick he had been. Um,

669
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to blame my Vickie because I love her,

670
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: but not long before this, her mother had died, and

671
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: it really you know, that's as I said, She became

672
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: very upset the more she kind of read her mother's

673
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: letters after her mother's death, and she went into a

674
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: pretty dark morning, and Albert, already sick, was like, you

675
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: more and your mom, you work through this. I'm going

676
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: to take care of all of your duties. I'll do

677
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: your job as long as you need you you do,

678
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: you grieve, and so you know, it's easy for her

679
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: to blame Birdie, but he was stressing himself out already

680
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 1: just kind of at that point running the country without her.

681
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: He was also, I mean, he never turned down any

682
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: of his duties. He never said like, hey, I'm not

683
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: really up to this right now. He would be like,

684
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: all right, sure I'll go oversee that thing. Absolutely, I

685
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: will take that. Media like he just he kind of

686
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: worked himself to death, and we don't we don't really

687
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: know what his cause of death was. There have been

688
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: a few um stomach cancer has been mentioned. H typhoid

689
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: fever was the big popular opinion for a while. Lately,

690
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: there have been some theories that it was Crohn's disease.

691
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: In fact, it's very heartbreaking. She was with him when

692
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: he died. She was holding his hand because she had

693
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: heard his ragged breathing there in the blue room of

694
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: the the the household, and she went to be with

695
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: him and she held him and she spoke with him

696
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: in German, and he apparently, according to her account, had

697
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: three long, slow breaths, and then he was just gone,

698
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: and she kissed his head and that was the end

699
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: of it. Um, so heartbreaking, I mean. And then she

700
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: wore black for like ever. I love that about her. Um,

701
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: She's like the original goth but except not really, because

702
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: Gothic period is already the whole separate kind of goth

703
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: though really, But it was that it was that very

704
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: special Victorian era morning and she was the Queen of

705
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: the Morning at the time. And we talked about this

706
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: in our episode, our interview with Kate Sweeney about just

707
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: the Victorian Arab session with Death. I love it. Yeah, yeah,

708
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: I mean who doesn't love a good Victorian morning gown? Seriously,

709
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: I think you're being facetious and I'm being serious. No,

710
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not being facetious. And we know, we

711
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: know the Victorians really they were into that well. And

712
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: it was also the heyday of spiritualism, so she also

713
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: got into seances to try to contact Albert. I mean,

714
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: it seems like Victoria went not I don't want to

715
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: say she went off the deep end because spiritualism was

716
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: so common at the time, but it seems like she

717
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: lost maybe a little bit of touch with reality. Well,

718
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: she always seemed to have some pretty interesting kind of

719
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: post trauma reactions to things. Um. There have been some

720
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 1: suggestions in recent times that historians have made, based largely

721
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: on the writings of Albert, actually that she suffered from

722
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 1: postpartum depression with each of her children, because Albert would

723
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: talk about these fits she would go into and she

724
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: would just get so upset over the littlest thing, and

725
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, normally after the birth of each of their children.

726
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: Whether or not that was postpartum depression or she was

727
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: just angry she had another baby on her hands, we

728
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 1: don't know, but she did tend to have pretty intense

729
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 1: emotional reactions to things that happened to her um and so,

730
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, of course, losing the love of her life

731
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: like this person, she said something after he had died

732
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: that that was the last person who could ever call

733
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: her Victoria was now gone. Like she didn't really have

734
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: anybody that was, you know, her equal and her friend anymore.

735
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: She was just the queen and she didn't have that

736
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: same level of camaraderie. People only knew her as her

737
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: royal self at that point. So it kind of makes

738
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: sense that she would maybe turn to some seemingly wacky

739
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: ways to try to work through her morning. And potentially,

740
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, frankly, I think all of that

741
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: is WHOEI but if my husband were to suddenly pass,

742
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: I would be like, bring on the witch doctor, just

743
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: get me any sort of voodoo practitioner, Like can I

744
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: please talk to Brian again? Like I'll do it whatever

745
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: it takes. I'll do it, so I can understand how

746
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: that would happen. Um, you know, there's well this might

747
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: be a ridiculous question considering the era and also her station,

748
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: but it sounds like she just didn't have any friends.

749
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean that sentiment that there was no one else

750
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: who could ever really call her Victoria. Because after that,

751
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: all of the focus seems to be turned to, like

752
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: in retrospect of us looking at her today, it shifts

753
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: away from Albert and then it's just focused on her

754
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: relationship with her kids. It doesn't seem like she had

755
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, she had John Brown Um, who kind of

756
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: turns into a little bit of a conroy, it seems

757
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: like in terms of his control over her life, but

758
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like there's any I don't know, any

759
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: like safe person for Victoria. Well exactly. And I mean

760
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: I think again we're kind of painting a psychological picture

761
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: that I am probably not qualified in terms of degrees

762
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: and study to do. But when you think about a

763
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: person who had this weird upbringing, not really all the

764
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: social graces figured out, suddenly has a ton of power,

765
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: has this marriage, this one person that gets her nobody else,

766
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: and then when she's grieving she doesn't have anybody to

767
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: comfort her. It's just like at best you get the cold,

768
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: they're they're dear. But that really was when Albert started

769
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: to get the glowing reputation because again similar to how

770
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, once things happened to her like um assassination attempts,

771
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: she would gain some sympathy. Like once Albert was gone,

772
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: and she was just I mean, she commissioned, like I

773
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: think it was a five volume biography of his entire life,

774
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: and you know, she really at that point lauded him

775
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: as this amazing loss for the country and really for

776
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: all of Europe, and so other people were like, yeah,

777
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: he was great. Uh and he was, I mean, he

778
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: did some incredible things. So that's really where his his

779
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: pr gets really really good after his death, Like people

780
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: start to realize, you know, what a great man he

781
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: was in many way reason and certainly in sympathy with her,

782
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: But she didn't have that sort of personal sympathy that

783
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: someone would normally have when you're going through grief. I

784
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: can't imagine what that would be like like to just

785
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: grieve on your own with everyone staring at you. Yeah. Well,

786
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: the the whole getting of a better reputation after something

787
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: horrible happens. I mean kind of we kind of see

788
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 1: the same thing with Bertie that you know, we've we've

789
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: got this sort of absent, invisible queen. They were even

790
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: publishing political cartoons showing an empty throne, you know, so

791
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: people are wondering, is she's shirking her duties? But then

792
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: we have this playboy print that everybody's like, he's got

793
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: prostitutes in his tent? What's going on? But then Bertie

794
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: ends up getting he actually gets typhoid, definitively right, and

795
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: so all of a sudden, the country is like, oh no,

796
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: the Prince is sick. We feel so bad for him. Yeah,

797
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: we wonder why we're so obsessed with like reality TV,

798
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: But it's the same thing. Yeah, we've always we've always

799
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: been like this. But yeah, so he basically garners the

800
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: nation's sympathy and suddenly they love him, and um, I

801
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: mean did did what happens then? Like what happens with

802
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: the Victoria and Bertie after that? Like is she still

803
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: sort of suspicious of him and not wanting to give

804
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: him any power? I would be reticent to claim that

805
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: their relationship was ever fully mended. Yeah, but it you

806
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: know how as you age, some stuff starts being less important.

807
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: I think that was more the case. It's just time

808
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: kind of turned down the volume on some of that. Yeah. Well,

809
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: I mean I love I love watching or watching, but

810
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: like reading about how these relationships did evolve. Considering that

811
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: when Bertie was a kid, she Queen Victoria wrote handsome.

812
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: I cannot think him with that painfully small and narrow head,

813
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: those immense features and total want of chin. Yeah, she

814
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: read a lot of cruel things. Poor Leopold. Leopold really

815
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: took one for the team. I mean he just oh

816
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: she said terrible things about that child, about just what

817
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: an ugly thing he was, and yeah, this was the

818
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: son with hemophilia. Yeah, she was not super kind to

819
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: that poor child. Well she also just the way that

820
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: she was raised isolated, so was Leopold. Yeah, yeah, he

821
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: really kind of didn't Beatrice, her youngest. I mean, you

822
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the

823
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: reason Beatrice was like we're getting rid of all her

824
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: stuff was kind of that. You know, by the time

825
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,479
Speaker 1: you're the last couple of kids in a big, long

826
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: line like that, parents have been through a lot. Maybe

827
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: not getting der fierce life of the Pie at that point. Yeah,

828
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: but Leopold's I mean, Leopold's story is so sad that

829
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: he's he's made to live the life of an invalid,

830
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 1: that he was bullied by the servant who was supposed

831
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: to look after him all of you know, uh he

832
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: she wasn't going to let him leave home, but he

833
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: finally went to study at Oxford well and was too.

834
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: Queen Victoria the original helicopter parent with spies being sent

835
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: out to watch over not only her children but also

836
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: for instance, like Bertie's wife. I mean that happened throughout

837
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: history and royal family all the time. So yes, but

838
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: it wasn't She's not the original, no, I mean there

839
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: was precedent. I mean you can even look at like

840
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: Marie Antoinette and her mother and her mother constantly going

841
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: you had sex yet? Have you had the sex yet?

842
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: Are you gonna make a have you had this? I'm

843
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: sending your brother to explain sex like. So, I mean,

844
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: there were certainly plenty of and that's just one example.

845
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: There are plenty throughout all of the houses of Europe

846
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: where you know, because there is that added stress of like, oh,

847
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: by the way, the nation is in your hands at

848
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: some point in the future or already were you know,

849
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: they're they're expectations of children that are not normal certainly

850
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: to us, right, and wanting to keep tabs on one

851
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: of her daughter in law's minstrual cycles and would plan

852
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: balls so that they would not fall within the cycle.

853
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: I think that's just being sinse bo. Yeah, that's just polite, right,

854
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't you love it if someone did that

855
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: for you? Let me make sure you don't have any

856
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: important meetings this week, and also we're gonna there's I

857
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: would like to throw a party. Can I get your

858
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: information on when it is going to work best for you?

859
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: Wink wink, Like, come on, when, Caroline, when are you

860
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: most likely to yell at strange? We're gonna just not

861
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: plan the party for that week. But how was she

862
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: though as a ruler, especially during this time because she

863
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: steps away completely from the public eye. She's obviously active

864
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: as a mother in some sense, but for a long time,

865
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like she's doing a whole lot. But

866
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: I know that that's a very simplistic. Well, for like

867
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: five years she did no public appearances, So to some agree,

868
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: you're right and a lot of people like to point

869
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: out she just wasn't around, and she did kind of

870
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: retreat to Belle Moral to spend a great deal of time. However,

871
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: she was maintaining all of her correspondences. Um, you know,

872
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: she was working daily in that regard. She just wasn't

873
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, in London in the thick of it. Just

874
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: didn't want to be there. Yeah. And and this is

875
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: when we really see the strong Republican movement developing, when

876
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: she's sort of invisible in a way, uh from the throne.

877
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, like you said, she was still keeping up

878
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 1: with things. Um, in eighteen sixty four from behind the scenes,

879
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: she did press her ministers not to intervene in the

880
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: Prussia Austria Denmark War. And so it's not like she

881
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: ever totally disappeared, but it's it's starting after that in

882
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: the late eighteen sixties and really in the seventies that

883
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: we finally see her emerge. Yeah. It seems like she

884
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: makes a pretty impressive comeback. Yeah. Um. You know, another

885
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind is that throughout her time

886
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: on the throne, you know, already the queen did not

887
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: have that much direct political power. She could assert her

888
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: influence over things. But it wasn't like she could go

889
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: and now the country will do this. She would have

890
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: to like convince politicians of what you know, she thought

891
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: was best. And slowly, over her entire reign, the power

892
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: of the throne was being chipped away. You know, there

893
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: was like one bill after another that was introduced that

894
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, again, would reduce incrementally like what

895
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: the royal family was capable of doing and what their

896
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: power was. So a lot of people like to say,

897
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: and then she vanished and the Republicans rose in the

898
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: in the vacuum, and it's like this is not entirely accurate.

899
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: There's a number of moving parts there, and it's really

900
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: more of a slow kind of wave and an ebb

901
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: rather than just a direct um cause and effect. So

902
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: how are you referring to more of a constitutional monarchy developing?

903
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: Basically where she's kind of supposed to remain above party politics, Well,

904
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: theoretically already was. Um Albert also really pushed her to

905
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: like follow really what she thought best and not get

906
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: involved in the party messes that had there had been

907
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: some missteps early in her reign over that, like it,

908
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: at one point she was supposed to when some parties

909
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 1: changed out, get rid of all of her her current

910
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: ladies and replace them with those that were in the

911
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: same political favor as as the then ruling party. And

912
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: she was like nope, and that really caused a lot

913
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: of problems or as hour, it was like, you have

914
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: to stop doing things based on party lines. You have

915
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: to just try to you know, be a good leader

916
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,919
Speaker 1: and think about each topic that comes up and each

917
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: problem that comes up, like as a human that is

918
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: smart and can you know, objectively look at a problem

919
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: and sort it out. Um. So she tried to get

920
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: more and more away from that, but her power, I mean,

921
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: the power of the monarchy was being chipped away regardless.

922
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: So it kind of got to be more constitutional monarchy,

923
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: but it already us So what inspired her then to

924
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: come back more or less in especially as we mentioned

925
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 1: in like the late eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies, Well,

926
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: she ruled, as we know, for a very long time.

927
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: I think there were and different prime ministers while she

928
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: was on the throne, and the one that kind of

929
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: coaxed her back into like more publicly serving her role

930
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: was Benjamin Disraeli who just sort of had this ability

931
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: to kind of influence her in a seemingly positive way

932
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: and just convince her like, no, you really you need

933
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: to be visible. People need to see you as part

934
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: of your job. Come on, likest luring the scared animal

935
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: out with some come on you, you should do this.

936
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: But of course she wasn't really a scared animal, and

937
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: I think that kind of helped her get over that

938
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: last hurdle and back into the swing of things. And

939
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: she was like, hey, you know what I wanted to

940
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: I want to be I want to be an empress.

941
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,959
Speaker 1: I do that, and I don't want my daughter Vicky

942
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: to be an empress. I want to be an empress.

943
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about India. This happened. They've got

944
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: a aric assault on our hands right here. Yeah, empiricism

945
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: is a tricky problem, you know. It's it's hard to

946
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: keep loving her in some ways. For me at that point,

947
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: I think that's why I tend to love her early

948
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: year stories a lot more. And then I'm like la

949
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: la la, la, la, la la. Not so much with

950
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: the oh no paragraph no. Um, but of course that

951
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: did happen. Um. Yeah, it's interesting that she had this

952
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: concern over Vicky who then married into the German monarchy,

953
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: somehow having more than her since eventually her grandchild, Vicky

954
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: uh Kaiser Wilhelm, would be a primary figure in World

955
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: War One. It's just all the kind of you look

956
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: at the big quilt, the big quilt of European rulers.

957
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: It kind of strikes me as funny that she was

958
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: so worried about that power on that end when it's like,

959
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: you shouldn't worry about what's going to happen in that

960
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 1: branch too much, Like some things are going to happen

961
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: and you can't stop it. So it's like the worst

962
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: family reunion ever, like all the ants and uncles, you're

963
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: just causing problems. But yeah, so there, Yeah, there was

964
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: stuff going on in India. There was an uprising and

965
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: she was like, enough of this. I'm going to make

966
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: you part of my empire. Yeah, people, Yeah, let's do

967
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: this thing, she said, And they did. But they did. Well.

968
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: Here's a question though, So over the course of her

969
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: almost sixty four your reign, I mean, she becomes inextric

970
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: inextricably linked with Britain's age of industrial expansion, economic progress, imperialism, obviously,

971
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 1: but I'm also really curious to know how much of

972
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: the culture that we think of when we hear Torrian

973
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: era is reflective of her, or if it was just

974
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it didn't all just like come shooting

975
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: out of her like one giant rainbow, like her tenth child.

976
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: I've dropped a culture egg, you guys, So we didn't

977
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: see what happens. Um, there certainly was a great deal

978
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: that we can attribute back to her. There's some really

979
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: interesting like trend things that are all her that we

980
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize, like you guys probably know.

981
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've talked about it. The white wedding dress

982
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: thing is all her. Uh. It's very very funny because

983
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: prior to that time white would be completely not appropriate

984
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: for a wedding. It was associated more with morning. But

985
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: like within two weeks of her marriage to Albert, because

986
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: not only did she wear white, her attendance all war white.

987
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: It was really a very plain gown compared to a

988
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: lot and there was initially like a lot of I

989
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 1: don't think you understand how to wedding um, but like

990
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: two weeks later fashion books were like everyone knows that

991
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: white's the best. It was just suddenly like obviously this

992
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: was always the best color for a bride. But the

993
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 1: other thing that a lot of people don't realize Christmas trees.

994
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: That's largely Victoria's doing her mother. You know, It's more

995
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: of a German tradition to have a small tree at

996
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: at Christmas time, and her mother had had some. I

997
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: think she would bring you trees into the house, but

998
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: at this point to bring a tree in the house

999
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: in Great Britain was like what um? But then once

1000
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 1: she married Albert, she really wanted, particularly their first Christmas,

1001
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: her to be very welcoming and to feel like home

1002
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: for him. So she did the big tree, and then

1003
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: when they had the kids, they kept the tree thing going.

1004
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: And now everybody has a Christmas tree. But that was

1005
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: not de rigor or prior to her. Uh. Such an

1006
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: interesting sort of cultural legacy that she's left us. But

1007
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: what about the lifestyle. You know, christ and I talked

1008
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: about Victorians a lot on the podcast that I'm sure

1009
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: you and Tracy do two about everything was so buttoned up,

1010
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: like you mentioned earlier, like where does that come from? Uh?

1011
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 1: You know, I think there's just that sense of propriety,

1012
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: and I think if you want to trace it to

1013
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: her again, I think there you always hear like, oh,

1014
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: it was very buttoned up, but then not really like

1015
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: the Victorians were secret freaks like and I think you

1016
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: can it's almost a really sort of lovely accidental mirror

1017
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: of Victoria herself where she did appear so prim and so,

1018
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 1: I mean, every image we have of her, particularly later

1019
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 1: in life, is that stern, we are not amused face.

1020
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: But then you hear her grandchildren say she was a

1021
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: hoot and she just laughed and she had a beautiful

1022
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: smile and she was hilarious, and uh so there and

1023
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: I mean even within her marriage, she was very into

1024
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: Albert sexually. I mean they were very much in love.

1025
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: She had a portrait commission which is since has come

1026
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: to light in fairly recent years that was not especially scandalous,

1027
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: but at the time was downright, you know, where her

1028
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: shoulders are uncovered and because apparently he loved to watch

1029
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: her ladies undress her at the end of the day,

1030
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: because he loved when her shoulders would be revealed. He

1031
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: thought they were just beautiful. And so she had this

1032
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: portrait done and it's lovely. She's kind of in three

1033
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: quarter profile and her shoulders naked, and her hair is

1034
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: draped over it, and so I mean, I think that

1035
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: the echo is there culturally of like, no, everything's very

1036
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: rigid and strict and except not so much all the time,

1037
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: you know. So it's an interesting there's a dichotomy there

1038
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: that I think is very much reflective of who Victoria was.

1039
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that is interesting to bring up

1040
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: that whole dichotomy, the buttoned up nous but then in private,

1041
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: the very the very open, loving but also sort of

1042
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of moody personality that existed. And I think that

1043
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: that that trend. We can see that going throughout her

1044
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: whole life, the fact that she, you know, wasn't the

1045
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: biggest fan of being pregnant or having kids or raising babies,

1046
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: but she did love her children and care about every

1047
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,919
Speaker 1: iota of their being. Yeah, which that's another thing she's

1048
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: often mentioned earlier criticized for. But it's like she didn't

1049
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: really have a good model, Like she didn't how do

1050
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: you piece together how to be a mom when you

1051
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: never when you had two people telling you what to

1052
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: do every minute of your life, you know, I mean,

1053
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: she just grew up a contrarian. I mean, it was

1054
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: entirely possible that that with Conroys and her mother's plot

1055
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: kind of in their scheming so to speak, that she

1056
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: could have very well grown up to be just like this,

1057
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: this yes woman, you know, doing whatever they wanted. But

1058
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: instead they bred a contrarian who became the queen for

1059
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: almost sixty four years. So yeah, that's part of why

1060
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: I love her. I like her her duality of person.

1061
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: But she she pretty much stayed once she re emerged

1062
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: into the public eye, and this in the seventies, she

1063
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: pretty much stayed there until her death in nineteen o

1064
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: one after a series of small strokes. But she was

1065
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: don't worry people. She was buried next to Albert. Yes,

1066
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: and you know what she had inscribed on the mausoleum

1067
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: for both of them. It's so sweet, um, farewell, best beloved.

1068
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: Here at last, I shall rest with the with the

1069
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: in Christ, I shall rise again. It's very sweet. I

1070
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: still love Yeah. I mean, they had a good one.

1071
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 1: That was a good lucky match. So holly too. Sum

1072
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: it all up, even though it's kind of impossible when

1073
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: it comes to Queen Victoria, what is your what do

1074
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: you think is her number one contribution to history? If

1075
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: you can only pick one, the cultural institutions she and

1076
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: Albert set up. I mean those you know, Victorian Albert

1077
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: Museum is still just amazing. It has more than two

1078
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: thousand years worth of art and relics, and you know

1079
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: there's constant research going on because of the seeds that

1080
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: they planted in the mid eighteen hundreds that we are

1081
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: still bearing fruit, um, and you know that people are

1082
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: still learning from So for me that would be what

1083
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: it is. But also I really like a good buffle gown.

1084
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it. Well, Holly, thank you so

1085
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: much for coming on this show to talk about Queen Victoria.

1086
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. It's been so fun. And

1087
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: for listeners of ours who don't already listen to stuff

1088
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: you missed in history class, where can they go to

1089
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: find out more about you and the podcast they're gonna missed?

1090
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: In history dot com, we have all of our episodes

1091
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: and our show notes go up there. All of the archives,

1092
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: so from all of the host previous Dracy and I've

1093
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: been about to and some change years um, but there

1094
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: were certainly many before that. So you'll discover all manner

1095
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: of crazy things, everything you ever wanted to know about

1096
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: Egyptian embalming, and various medical diseases. All diseases are medical, Holly,

1097
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: various diseases and how they were treated. There's a lot

1098
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: of astronomy and science history, and lots of history of

1099
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: other queens and empresses as well. Yes, we we love

1100
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: all the royalty, even the crazy ones, especially the crazy ones.

1101
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: So head on over to missed in History dot com.

1102
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: And hey, if you have thoughts to share with us

1103
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: about Queen Victoria or your favorite queen, you can tweet

1104
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: us at mom Stuff Podcast, email us at Mom's Stuff

1105
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: at how stuffworks dot com, or messages on Facebook. And

1106
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you

1107
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: right now. Well, I have a letter here from Sarah.

1108
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: She says, I just wanted to say thank you for

1109
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: all the work you ladies doing the podcast. I really

1110
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: enjoyed the thoughtful and lovely discussions you guys have. You've

1111
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: brought up a lot of topics that I've never really

1112
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,439
Speaker 1: given much thought to, sludge shaming, victim blaming, and rape

1113
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: culture especially. I've become much more aware of my own

1114
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: habits and language and how they contribute to the culture

1115
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: of negativity in general. I catch myself thinking about how

1116
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: someone has gained weight, or wearing clothing I wouldn't deem

1117
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: appropriate or maybe just looks a certain way. I'm making

1118
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: a sincere effort to change how I look at people,

1119
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: and at the very least not to vocalize negativity and

1120
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: maybe thinking about something as trivial as someone's dress us.

1121
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: When I catch those thoughts coming on, I make an

1122
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: effort to turn it into something positive. A girl wearing

1123
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: an outfit that I and others would probably think is

1124
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: too tight for her figure turns into I'm glad she

1125
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: has that confidence. You go, girl. It takes a lot

1126
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: of practice, but I feel like I'm contributing in some

1127
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: small way. I don't have children yet, but I'm hoping

1128
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 1: that will change this year, and I've put a lot

1129
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: of thought into how my children will be raised, about

1130
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: the kind of society they'll be raised in, and about

1131
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: how I'll keep them safe and confident and able to

1132
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: rise above the unreasonable expectations of society. So thanks again

1133
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: for the enlightening and fun podcast, and keep up the

1134
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: good work. And thank you Sarah for writing in Well

1135
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: I've gotta let her here from Maddie, and she writes

1136
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: long time listener, first time writer. I love the podcast

1137
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: so much and I'm really excited to have a reason

1138
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: to write in, especially about something like this. I live

1139
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: in Ontario, a province in Canada. She knows, and our

1140
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: current premiere, the US equivalent would be a governor, is

1141
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: a woman named Kathleen Win. She's pretty cool for a

1142
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: few reasons. She's the first female premiere of Ontario and

1143
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: the first openly gay premiere in Canada. She's also made

1144
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: it very clear she's a proud feminist. She's shown this

1145
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: in a number of her policies, the latest of which

1146
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: is an extensive plan to combat sexual assault and rape culture,

1147
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: which has the title It's Never Okay. The plan includes

1148
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: things like improved sex said to teach kids about healthy

1149
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: relationships from a young age, more pressure on universities and

1150
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: workplaces to improve and continuously update harassment policies, increased support

1151
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: for existing treatment centers and training for police, mental health

1152
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: workers and Crown prosecutors. There's even funding for artists to

1153
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: create work about gender inequality and rape culture. The government

1154
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: has also produced an ad which highlights the importance of

1155
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: speaking up and stepping in when you see assault happening.

1156
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: I've included a link to an article that contains the

1157
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: ad so you can watch it and read more if

1158
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: you want to, maybe even post the video on the

1159
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: face book or Tumblr page. Again, love the podcast, the

1160
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: YouTube channel, and especially YouTube. I'm so excited to be

1161
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: able to share this kind of awesomeness with you, So

1162
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: thanks Mattie, and we will indeed share that video on

1163
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 1: our tumbler, Stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot

1164
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: com and if you have emails to send our way

1165
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: Mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is our

1166
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: email address and for links to all of our social

1167
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts.

1168
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: With this one, you know where to go. It's stuff

1169
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this

1170
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because at how stuff works

1171
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: dot com