Speaker 1: Welcome to Nightcall, a production of My Heart Radio. It's
Speaker 1: eleven PM in Amherst, Massachusetts, and you're listening Tonightcall. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome Tonight Call, a podcast for your strange days
Speaker 1: and lonely nights. My name is Emily Oshida. I am
Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles, and with me as always are
Speaker 1: Molly Lambert and tes Lynch. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello. There
Speaker 1: are so many mysteries right now on the Internet. I
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like this episode is going to
Speaker 1: be conspiracy heavy. Is a mystery heavy episode mystery podcast theater.
Speaker 1: I have been so like puzzled, and I like, I
Speaker 1: don't even I wanted to come to today's episode like
Speaker 1: with all the answers about this particular case and like
Speaker 1: ready to just like explain it all. But the deeper
Speaker 1: I go into it, the less sense it makes. So
Speaker 1: under the Silver Lake, I was under the Silver Lake.
Speaker 1: I was under the Crazy Lake, Crazy days, the days
Speaker 1: and lakes. Um so a couple of weeks ago, yeah
Speaker 1: it was October tenth or yeah, um I don't know.
Speaker 1: We we we talked about crazy days and nights a lot
Speaker 1: on this podcast. But the Blind Item webs Blind Item Website,
Speaker 1: it's super shanky, uh we too to maybe out of
Speaker 1: few of us love it. Um, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: feel like it's just been like a staple of mine
Speaker 1: for a long time. A bunch of things from it
Speaker 1: came true, it turned out to be true. It became
Speaker 1: freshly relevant within the last couple of years, particularly around um,
Speaker 1: some stories about Harvey Weinstein and now some Epstein stories. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know it's uh yeah, it's a resource, but
Speaker 1: unverifiable resource. I hate it so much. I want to
Speaker 1: bite my tongue and just let you guys have fun.
Speaker 1: But it has the tone of this website is very
Speaker 1: difficult for me. It's run by a man. Well, formerly
Speaker 1: we thought it was run by a man. We took
Speaker 1: him at his word that his name was empty and
Speaker 1: entertainment lawyer. How many divorces for he has like this
Speaker 1: very kind of cheeky sort of mythology. Or was like
Speaker 1: I weigh three hundred pounds and I've had four wives,
Speaker 1: and I eat bacon all day and I live in
Speaker 1: a basement. Yeah, I live in my parents. I thought
Speaker 1: that was like mocking what people must think of him,
Speaker 1: But then there there have been profiles of him that
Speaker 1: are like and he is Yeah, Like I mean, I
Speaker 1: I feel like it's not even verified though that he
Speaker 1: lives in Los Angeles, right, Okay, So that's so, so
Speaker 1: we have to go we have to go back first
Speaker 1: to have him him mythology. So and he has a
Speaker 1: source um or like a group of sources called known
Speaker 1: as him with four MS, and they are a group
Speaker 1: supposedly of four men um three of whom are like
Speaker 1: celebrities whose names you would recognize, apparently who are friends.
Speaker 1: And they started off as commenters on the website and
Speaker 1: a lot of people thought when they thought it was
Speaker 1: one person, they thought it was Robert Downey Jr. And
Speaker 1: this was like a kind of and this is kind
Speaker 1: of keeps being a thing like people like when when
Speaker 1: I think there was one him blind item about like
Speaker 1: an Avenger's star dropping out and he's like, oh good
Speaker 1: for you, Alreadie J. Like I mean, there's just there's
Speaker 1: that continues to be like a um. This person presents
Speaker 1: himself as somebody who's like a Hollywood insider who like
Speaker 1: is raised in Los Angeles, has been around for a
Speaker 1: while for a long time, knows everybody from like not
Speaker 1: only the current generation, but like knows old Hollywood concept
Speaker 1: as well passed on through the ages, and I guess
Speaker 1: like it does sort of. I mean, if you could
Speaker 1: think of a star of that age range and profile,
Speaker 1: I guess like Robert Downey Jr. Is easier to imagine
Speaker 1: than most people like indulging, and like indulgence people's fantasy
Speaker 1: that he would be very smart, right, So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think he's I don't know if anyone asked him directly.
Speaker 1: They have and he like kind of was coy about it,
Speaker 1: but I think I don't think he also seems like
Speaker 1: somebody who would be coy about it, and he was
Speaker 1: enjoying the fact that people thought it was him. Um anyway,
Speaker 1: so that started like in him him came onto the
Speaker 1: sea dance scene. Um. And then this this past month, uh,
Speaker 1: and he announced that one of the hymns had committed suicide.
Speaker 1: And apparently it was the one who was like not famous,
Speaker 1: but the one who wrote most of the blinds, like
Speaker 1: the one who was kind of the direct contact and
Speaker 1: so people were, you know, uh, pouring one out for
Speaker 1: him number four and etcetera. And then this guy who
Speaker 1: goes by John Doe, UM, not John Doe from x UM,
Speaker 1: just a John doe with a series of numbers. Who
Speaker 1: I guess it's just like an anti fanboy started to
Speaker 1: like do some digging and had a theory that the
Speaker 1: hymns were all made up and that they were not
Speaker 1: ever vetted by Anti or Anti willingly and knowingly just
Speaker 1: like let them tell these bullshit stories online, um and
Speaker 1: and pretend like basically that it was a group fan
Speaker 1: fiction effort or no, that there wasn't even a group, Shepherd,
Speaker 1: it was one guy the whole time who was just
Speaker 1: like making like playing the role of this Hollywood insider
Speaker 1: I knew dirt somewhere else, like, uh oh wait, I
Speaker 1: have to find this guy. By the way, it bears mentioning.
Speaker 1: Even though it probably is obvious that there have been
Speaker 1: a number of things that Crazy Days and Nights has
Speaker 1: predicted correctly, I would argue there have been more that
Speaker 1: have been not proven. People say it is a mixture
Speaker 1: of the true and the untrue in order to like
Speaker 1: not get sued. Sure, that makes lots of sense. I
Speaker 1: don't think so at all. I mean this is it's
Speaker 1: clearly I read blind item sites a lot, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's the same with all of them. They will predict
Speaker 1: things that don't happen, And um, it's actually if we
Speaker 1: ran a blind item site, I guarantee that we could
Speaker 1: accurately predict several scandalous things like astrology. It's a mixture
Speaker 1: of astrology. Yeah, but also there. I mean to me,
Speaker 1: the purpose of blind item sites and things like that
Speaker 1: is to like air out gossip that would not be
Speaker 1: able to be vetted into a real magazine. And if
Speaker 1: you like, if you're saying like, oh, but like the
Speaker 1: real news are report on it anyway, Like look at
Speaker 1: how the Harvey Weinstein story did play out, because he
Speaker 1: just paid off every newspaper and magazine and crushed every
Speaker 1: story about it, like made it so that if it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen in print, it didn't happen, which is how
Speaker 1: a lot of abusive things work. There are also ones
Speaker 1: that haven't come to light. For instance, Um, a Nickelodeon
Speaker 1: personality who yeah, who's been talked about for years in
Speaker 1: blind that's just like an open secret. It isn't open.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's I think the best certain Even
Speaker 1: Nickelodeon when they fired him, they said it was for
Speaker 1: something else exactly. They said it was like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: just having a new creative regime, so you know, until
Speaker 1: somebody accuses this person my name, which I think some
Speaker 1: people have. Uh. That's the thing is, it's like what
Speaker 1: if they sue you for falsely, you know, claiming something
Speaker 1: you can't prove. And if you're curious what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: you can go ahead and search Nickelodeon feet and then
Speaker 1: you can immediately know exactly what we are talking about.
Speaker 1: So some people think that this means that anti themselves
Speaker 1: are scam and not actually knowledgeable, maybe not even in
Speaker 1: l A. Well, this guy John Doe, who like kind
Speaker 1: of went on this Twitter tear and like started to
Speaker 1: line up the evidence for why him was a lie, uh,
Speaker 1: then deleted all of his posts and it's like now
Speaker 1: having a meltdown on Twitter, and he's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: being threatened by by crazy days and nights. And there's
Speaker 1: another thing too, which is like I don't know how
Speaker 1: far this person specifically went into Q and on, but
Speaker 1: they were kind of like facing the limit, like they
Speaker 1: you know, the pedophile ring stuff and the like sexual
Speaker 1: abuse stuff ring that is true, but then there's also
Speaker 1: things that aren't true, like people wear red shoes to
Speaker 1: show that they're a pedophile, and so all these people thought,
Speaker 1: like Christy Teagan was a pedophile because she wore red
Speaker 1: shoes on a show, and that like gets circulated. It's
Speaker 1: just like, well, I don't know how much that him
Speaker 1: stuff was getting into like The Q and on, Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like that was kind of the John Doe
Speaker 1: gu I was definitely like on that edge, I think,
Speaker 1: and a lot of his followers were sort of more
Speaker 1: of like the Q and on Variety. I would say, um,
Speaker 1: and I think that I think the reason he started
Speaker 1: to get a lot of backlash and like delete at
Speaker 1: everything is just like when you are looking into somebody,
Speaker 1: like I mean, I think this guy actually did commute suicide.
Speaker 1: Whoever this was, I think people like figured out who
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, I you can find his I
Speaker 1: continue the link to his obituary, and he lived in Virginia,
Speaker 1: and he appeared to just he had like one IMDb credit,
Speaker 1: So he worked in Hollywood for some short amount of
Speaker 1: time in the nineties and apparently didn't have any involvement
Speaker 1: in show business anymore. Um, and I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: it's like a kind of thing where he like kind
Speaker 1: of always had this itch and still wanted to like
Speaker 1: play the role of an insider or like, but it
Speaker 1: goes back to an old thing, which is like, don't
Speaker 1: take people on the internet at face value, yeah, or
Speaker 1: like you know, and like because somebody has an avatar
Speaker 1: that it's like a picture of that person, and there
Speaker 1: are needs of like smart talented people who are good
Speaker 1: at writing and telling stories, who are unemployed in that realm,
Speaker 1: men who can pretend to be whoever they want on
Speaker 1: the internet. Pretty well, my question is this as someone
Speaker 1: who doesn't know that I know the big A six,
Speaker 1: you know the foundational information. But so basically, do you
Speaker 1: guys think that Empty is a singular person with inside knowledge?
Speaker 1: Do you think that Anty was him? Also? Do you
Speaker 1: think that him that all of the hymns were one guy?
Speaker 1: I think my current theory and I have nothing to
Speaker 1: back this is just the sense that I get is
Speaker 1: that Empty is not actually an entertainment lawyer, but he
Speaker 1: probably has some connections to the industry and is like
Speaker 1: an aggregator of gossip. That's what I think too. I
Speaker 1: think that people send blind items and tips to Empty
Speaker 1: because they've established themselves is like the place where you
Speaker 1: can get those kinds of blind items and tips run.
Speaker 1: So I think people do say like, hey, this person
Speaker 1: did this, and then he like frames it as a
Speaker 1: blind item. Um. A lot of them are true. A
Speaker 1: lot of the old Hollywood ones are. If they were
Speaker 1: fan fiction, it would be sort of like tediously written
Speaker 1: and overly specific. Guy is one of those that you're
Speaker 1: referring to. Is that James Dean the last year, Well,
Speaker 1: one of the him I think it was a him.
Speaker 1: One that was the Natalie would one that was like
Speaker 1: a couple of years. I don't remember what was that one?
Speaker 1: Um that was that that she fell off the boat
Speaker 1: and like there was a chance to rescue her and
Speaker 1: nobody did, like like this whole like altercation that broke
Speaker 1: out and everything. It was just like a narrative of
Speaker 1: what happened to that. We'll never know that one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's one of these. It's also one of these
Speaker 1: things that it's like, well, there's no way to prove
Speaker 1: that now, probably like Christopher walking still a lot. No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's what he was asleep, according to him. But
Speaker 1: he said that that's a story that he started talking.
Speaker 1: He started talking, apparently that's that's that's part of the
Speaker 1: blind item. Yeah, I mean I read him also wrote
Speaker 1: in sort of a different style from empty they write
Speaker 1: in this really I hate the hymn. I almost don't
Speaker 1: ever need the him I ran, They ran a really
Speaker 1: really good like extended one after uh, Peter Fonda died
Speaker 1: that claimed that, um, that Peter Fonda had told him
Speaker 1: this story. And I do think that there are like
Speaker 1: stories that guys like that have told everybody that like,
Speaker 1: now that they're dead, you can publish them. Um. This
Speaker 1: story was that they like arranged for all the bikes
Speaker 1: to be stolen during Easy Riders so that they could
Speaker 1: get the insurance money to finish making Easy Writer, which
Speaker 1: job the bikes were stolen from Easy Riders, So I
Speaker 1: do believe that that's what happened. Um. And then there
Speaker 1: was like a second part of that story that involved
Speaker 1: Michelle Phillips going to Howard Hughes and asking for a
Speaker 1: loan to help her friends finish their movie. And then
Speaker 1: she said, yes, I also believe Michelle Phillips could get
Speaker 1: anything out of anything, So um, yeah, I mean interesting
Speaker 1: that And again you're just like, it feels it could
Speaker 1: be all made up, who knows, but it does feel specific,
Speaker 1: and uh, it just feels like a tour ducan of
Speaker 1: like bule faking, like it is like insider knowledge. It's
Speaker 1: just because it's like a commentator on a blog that
Speaker 1: might not even be real. Like, it's just it's very um,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a real rabbit hole. Yeah, first let's
Speaker 1: take a break, and then when we come back, let's
Speaker 1: take a Nicall this sounds good, Welcome back to Nightcall.
Speaker 1: We have a nightcall that we wanted to take about
Speaker 1: horror movies because it's still a spooky season. Spooky season
Speaker 1: has just started. It's always spooky season now, she said, disdainfully.
Speaker 1: We have always been here. Hey, I am a fan
Speaker 1: of the show, and I posted a question in the
Speaker 1: Night Colors group that I wanted to ask you, folks, um,
Speaker 1: do you have any recommendations for easing into horror movies.
Speaker 1: My background is I was raised in a pretty restrictive
Speaker 1: religious environment where we were told that if we watched
Speaker 1: movies with any kind of demonic or the ratistic element
Speaker 1: in them, then we had a good chance of getting
Speaker 1: attacked by demons. And so in that environment, I really
Speaker 1: didn't get any exposure to horror movies beyond like the Birds. Um.
Speaker 1: Later on, I started watching some zombie movies when I
Speaker 1: kind of got out of that religious environment. But I'm
Speaker 1: still really scared of horror, and I still kind of
Speaker 1: have this visceral like fear reaction where I can't bring
Speaker 1: myself to even look at the screen. So, um, I've
Speaker 1: got really good recommendations, but um, it was suggested to
Speaker 1: call into the show to also get everybody's take on, um,
Speaker 1: maybe what movies I could start with to start to
Speaker 1: get more comfortable with seeing horror on screen. So I
Speaker 1: would love to hear anything you might recommend, and I
Speaker 1: will add it to my homework. Thank you, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for the call. Um do you guys? I
Speaker 1: mean I'm the bed. I'm a bad personally. I have
Speaker 1: one idea, but I want to hear yours because I'm
Speaker 1: such the wrong person to answer this question. I like
Speaker 1: gentle horror, the gentle, the gentle horror. I've been watching
Speaker 1: a lot of like thirties and forties horror, which I
Speaker 1: think is a good place to start. Squeamish. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: universal monster movie. Universal monster movies are all really good.
Speaker 1: It's like Dracula. I'm just going to name a bunch
Speaker 1: of monsters. I was going to suggest the Francis for
Speaker 1: Coppola Dracula because it's just more of like a gothic
Speaker 1: spook fest, but it's just like, yeah, it's it's super goth.
Speaker 1: It's like it's scary, but it's more just like gushing
Speaker 1: rivers of blood type scary. Like it's not like, but
Speaker 1: if rivers of blood or not your thing? Are they not?
Speaker 1: Who's who's whose thing? Isn't rivers of blood nude to horror? Well,
Speaker 1: but I just don't think that that's scary in the
Speaker 1: same way that like The Exorcist is scary in the
Speaker 1: facebook she has for exposure therapy. And I actually was like,
Speaker 1: maybe you could just jump in with the Exorcist and
Speaker 1: then you know, everything else would be easy. But I
Speaker 1: said Poltergeist and Rosemary's Baby because they both have so
Speaker 1: much so much plot. Like poulter Geist, for instance, is
Speaker 1: great because it's just funny at parts and like and
Speaker 1: it's it's making fun of yuppies. The yuppies are like
Speaker 1: the real bad people when you kind of think about it,
Speaker 1: so then it's like, if you're scared of yuppies, you
Speaker 1: get to think about that. Um. But I thought Poulter
Speaker 1: Guys was like a good entree. Yeah, pulter Geist is
Speaker 1: a good pick, and Rosemary's Baby I just love because
Speaker 1: it's funny. But I also obviously it's a tricky one
Speaker 1: to recommend. Yeah, the demonic thing. It's like Rosemary's Baby
Speaker 1: and Exorcist or two, like first just perfect movies outside
Speaker 1: of genre, and then but they also are very much
Speaker 1: like like if you have grown up like actually believing
Speaker 1: in demons of Satan and stuff like that, then like
Speaker 1: that might not be the best, but in a way,
Speaker 1: in a way to jump into the deep end. I
Speaker 1: also said It Follows because It Follows has such a
Speaker 1: great texture, and I think like something about It Follows
Speaker 1: is very seductive. I'm trying to think of movies that
Speaker 1: like wouldn't give you nightmares, but then but you're watching horror.
Speaker 1: She's trying to get over the fear. I think that
Speaker 1: the monster stuff is. I think vampire movies are like
Speaker 1: the least scary monster, like hot um Business a sexy scary.
Speaker 1: I thought the scariest movie to recommend would be pet Cemetery.
Speaker 1: For some reason, why are we just picking the scariest.
Speaker 1: I think I didn't recommend pet Semetary because in my
Speaker 1: mind I was like, not pet cemetery. Not all of
Speaker 1: tests recommendations it should be it should be stated, are
Speaker 1: like the baptism by fire. Yeah you want to styles um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think like a good old like goold
Speaker 1: fashion ghost story, even something like I don't know, like
Speaker 1: like even a Becca or something like that. It's just
Speaker 1: like a spooky tale about a spooky house, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's very gentle, kind of horrid. Do you want I
Speaker 1: guess that's the question. Well, she likes zombies. She did
Speaker 1: like zombies, but she's you know, it was like hard.
Speaker 1: But she should watch Night of the Living Dad, if
Speaker 1: she hasn't yet. I think she's wanting to expand, to
Speaker 1: broaden her horizons after the zombies. Zombies do feel a
Speaker 1: little bit of like a zombies don't really get me
Speaker 1: going in the way a lot of things. It feels
Speaker 1: like a little bit of there's a big zombie boom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but whoa what about like an anthology like what like
Speaker 1: I mean, like from the crypt Tales from the Dark Side,
Speaker 1: something like that. I mean, you could also do something
Speaker 1: where you if you haven't. I don't know if Twilight
Speaker 1: Zone would have been considered demonic, but like something like
Speaker 1: Twilight Zone is a great suggestion that the TV show
Speaker 1: the movie is genuinely terrifying. Well, the movie for many reasons.
Speaker 1: It's cursed and it's arry and yeah, and I still
Speaker 1: watch it sometimes really feel so off brand, and that's
Speaker 1: part of what makes it so creepy. Why they do
Speaker 1: it and they kill people. Um, I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: none of us have suggested like slasher movies. Well, I
Speaker 1: was about to say, like, actually what I would do.
Speaker 1: And I was always really afraid of especially effects heavy
Speaker 1: horror movies. So if that's your particular poison, super afraid
Speaker 1: of Freddy way too afraid to ever see any of
Speaker 1: those movies. So then like a few years ago, I
Speaker 1: did them all, and I totally recommend that because it's
Speaker 1: also just like a fun run. The Freddie movies are
Speaker 1: fun just because they're like goofy, Well the first one,
Speaker 1: the first one is genuinely scary, the second one is
Speaker 1: really homo erotic, the third fourth, like then they get
Speaker 1: weird and star Patricia Arquette as like a haunted child. Um,
Speaker 1: and then they get self aware and then they turned
Speaker 1: into New Nightmare, which is like an amazing meta horror movie.
Speaker 1: About the l a earthquake and the effect being in
Speaker 1: the Freddy Serious has had on all the actors who
Speaker 1: play the characters. It's like a dry run for Scream.
Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, and we'll also recommend Scream. Oh, Scream
Speaker 1: is great. Well, there's something supernatural about the Nightmares movies,
Speaker 1: which is, like I think puts it in more of
Speaker 1: a fun realm than just like like just Halloween or
Speaker 1: just like any kind of wouldn't I would not, I
Speaker 1: actually would like not. I get more bad vibes. And
Speaker 1: I also I grew up religiously as well, like and
Speaker 1: I get more bad vibes from like teenage girls getting
Speaker 1: slashed than anything having to do with Satan or demons
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Like that stuff feels actually kind
Speaker 1: of doesn't get slashed. She saves everyone else. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: a lot of other people do. I love Halloween because
Speaker 1: they're like cool girls who like smoke pot in their car,
Speaker 1: and then they also have to deal with this guy
Speaker 1: who's talking them. And then the Craft may be good
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen The Crab, because it deals kind
Speaker 1: of head on with like, you know, adolescent girls who
Speaker 1: are harnessing their powers rebelling craft is a good Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are If you have any starter horror recommendations, horror
Speaker 1: movie starter pack, please call in and let us know
Speaker 1: at to four oh four six night give us a
Speaker 1: Nightcall with your favorite night watches. You can also give
Speaker 1: us an email at Night Call Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: So when we come back, we are going to welcome
Speaker 1: our guest this week onto the show. Welcome back to Nightcall.
Speaker 1: We are now joined by our guest and friend of
Speaker 1: the show, Elana Smith. She is the creator of Dickinson,
Speaker 1: which is now availble to watch on Apple TV plus.
Speaker 1: Um hey, hey, ter New York. So this is like
Speaker 1: we're back to Nightcall, like o G Nightcall where we're
Speaker 1: talking to the other coast. Yeah, and this is this
Speaker 1: is really special for me because I've been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of press and interviews for Dickinson, but this is
Speaker 1: the only press where the people that I'm talking to
Speaker 1: have known me since before I started working on Dad
Speaker 1: and well, they're the whole time. I wanted to look
Speaker 1: up just for reference because you were one of our
Speaker 1: first guests on Girls and Hoodies back in the day. Um,
Speaker 1: you came on around the tween Hobo days and I
Speaker 1: had to look up. I looked it up. I googled it.
Speaker 1: And the way I can tell this is a long
Speaker 1: ass time ago is there's a picture of Justin Bieber
Speaker 1: and he's just got like the very beginning of the
Speaker 1: whispy mustache, which would become the nightmare that we know today.
Speaker 1: So were it really was back, I know, and tweet
Speaker 1: Hobo was defined tween Hobo was defined by her love
Speaker 1: of Bieber. Yeah, nothing could be more outdated now. So life,
Speaker 1: life on the rails, moves fast. You got to keep up.
Speaker 1: You gotta keep up with the times. I thought you
Speaker 1: were going to say that we're the only press you've
Speaker 1: done that's going to ask you for your Epstein theories.
Speaker 1: I mean that means we're achieving an even greater dream
Speaker 1: of mine than having a TV show, which is talking
Speaker 1: about Epstein on a podcast. So well, we want to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about Dickinson. And yes, like we've
Speaker 1: all known you since before you started working on the
Speaker 1: show proper, but like I feel like you've been working
Speaker 1: on this in some fashion or another for as long
Speaker 1: as I've known you. So it's like I always tell people, like,
Speaker 1: it's so cool to actually see my friend's show she's
Speaker 1: been talking about forever, like realized and like seeing billboards
Speaker 1: for it on Sunset and stuff. It's wild. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: you're but you're obsessed with Emily Dickinson, you know. And
Speaker 1: I really haven't stopped being obsessed with her. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's actually crazy that that the interest continues. You haven't
Speaker 1: gotten burned out from just I can't believe that I haven't.
Speaker 1: But I think it's sort of like it started with
Speaker 1: Emily Dickinson and her poems, and then as well, I
Speaker 1: became fascinated with her biography and you know, her life story,
Speaker 1: and then I have spent so long working on it
Speaker 1: that the interest has kind of bled out from there
Speaker 1: into just the eighteen fifties and sixties in general, and um,
Speaker 1: and you know the literary culture and context that surrounded her. Uh.
Speaker 1: And there's just so much meat there. There's so much
Speaker 1: to chew on and so many ways to kind of
Speaker 1: use that time in American history as a filter for
Speaker 1: looking at where we are today. And and that's what's
Speaker 1: like really kept me going and even to the point
Speaker 1: where I mean, this is so crazy, because as you
Speaker 1: guys know, I also have eighteen month old twins and um,
Speaker 1: between my babies and this show, I have no free time.
Speaker 1: And yet somehow I just signed up for a four
Speaker 1: week long course on the Civil War that I'm going
Speaker 1: to be taking at a bar in Brooklyn. Uh And
Speaker 1: I forced one of my other writers to take it
Speaker 1: with me. And like, I mean, I'm just like I
Speaker 1: can't stop with with the Civil Wards. It's really all engaging.
Speaker 1: So I love that you have made like the ultimate
Speaker 1: Lisa Simpson dream show. Yes for anyone who did, only
Speaker 1: Lisa would sign up for a civil work or also
Speaker 1: just things like you know, being like my audience is
Speaker 1: people who will be excited about casting John mulaney as
Speaker 1: Henry David Threw. I mean, I feel like it's it's like,
Speaker 1: you know that we're we're canceling thorow, But that feels
Speaker 1: like literally that that was trending on Twitter a month
Speaker 1: ago that somebody's tweet about how Throw was mom did
Speaker 1: his laundry went viral and I'm just like, come on, yeah,
Speaker 1: I probably thought it comes up every every like several years.
Speaker 1: That becomes like a new fun fact. It's like you've
Speaker 1: known about this, like yeah, well, well we've dramatized it.
Speaker 1: Featuring the comic gifts of John Mulaney. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I was always a huge fan of the Transcendentalists,
Speaker 1: uh in general, all that spiritualism stuff. Were you guys
Speaker 1: transcendental heads? No, Test just gave a look that was
Speaker 1: like I was so into like Emerson, I wasn't. I wasn't.
Speaker 1: And as to the Romantics, there's some really good Moby
Speaker 1: Dick Molly's Forever. No. I mean, I mean, it's the
Speaker 1: thing is that it is. It is really good, and
Speaker 1: I'm just I look back at I read Moby Dick
Speaker 1: when I was like in my twenties living in Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: and I just remember reading it on the subway a lot,
Speaker 1: and it really was an absolutely, you know, existentially transcendent experience.
Speaker 1: But I just feel like I am. I feel like
Speaker 1: I don't read anymore. And I don't know. Although now
Speaker 1: I'm actually going on a trip to Russia, which is
Speaker 1: topic for another podcast. But I'm going to Russia and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking maybe I have to read Warren Peace. Are
Speaker 1: you going to promote the show or just for fun?
Speaker 1: Are you going to investigate an investigate? Yes, I gotta
Speaker 1: see what's I gotta just ask a few questions poke
Speaker 1: around man watch out. You should definitely read Warren Peace
Speaker 1: all the Russian novels. Also, rule have you read Anna Karenina?
Speaker 1: I have not read. That's my monster, like Transcendental. It
Speaker 1: took a year to read, like like completely, like I
Speaker 1: like absorbed myself into it. That book is amazing. I
Speaker 1: keep asking people which one I should read Anna Karenina
Speaker 1: or Warren Peace, and like do Anna Karna have adamant
Speaker 1: opinions about it? We nightcall says do Anna Karna a
Speaker 1: total So it's so horny you'll love it. It's very tortured.
Speaker 1: I haven't read Warren Peace, though, so I can't really
Speaker 1: honestly say one is better than the other. But that's
Speaker 1: that is on my short list of things to get to.
Speaker 1: As they say, yeah, yeah, I mean so far as
Speaker 1: I can tell, as far as I can tell from
Speaker 1: the like you know, um Spark notes that I've been
Speaker 1: googling about Warren Peace. It illuminates the way in which
Speaker 1: we're all just specks of dust on the grand canvas
Speaker 1: of history. I kind of feel like I could get
Speaker 1: into that. And Karina has got some real class politic
Speaker 1: in it too, which you will also dig Um, it's
Speaker 1: I can only picture Kara nightly now when I think
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, did you see the movie? No, I
Speaker 1: must seen the poster. Movie is pretty good. Guys, it's
Speaker 1: not isn't it like Guy did Atonement? If you like
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and sometimes I do. I like
Speaker 1: to fantasize about places where it's very cold because of it. Well, obviously,
Speaker 1: obviously I wouldn't have made Dickinson if I didn't want
Speaker 1: to get into that period game. I definitely have you
Speaker 1: Flecked with Doctor Jivago. You should watch that that and
Speaker 1: also yeah, I have definitely I feel like that's very
Speaker 1: much kind of the visual tone of Dickinson, which has
Speaker 1: the pilots directed by David Gordon Green, who does an
Speaker 1: amazing job. Um, but yeah, make it's like so romantic
Speaker 1: and sweeping and beautiful and visually beautiful. Your costumes have
Speaker 1: gotten like some good pre press like pre airing buzz.
Speaker 1: The costumes. I mean, all I can think of is
Speaker 1: like that beautiful red dress that Haley's time fels wearing.
Speaker 1: And the trailer, I'm like, day, do you think Dickinson
Speaker 1: Core Dickinson Core is going to catch on? I absolutely do.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think it's already started. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys have noticed the amount of puffed sleeves.
Speaker 1: And it's really lucky for me, not only because it
Speaker 1: is so on brand for Dickinson, but also that is
Speaker 1: a silhouette that I look good in and you know,
Speaker 1: as an older woman, I just want to commit to
Speaker 1: a silhouette that works for me as an older woman.
Speaker 1: What the prairie look. I didn't some like can't deep
Speaker 1: excavation of like why this is the thing right now?
Speaker 1: And I think it's like actually quite subversive, like the
Speaker 1: whole bat siva. Oh I can't, I can't subversive. Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like it's it's like it's like
Speaker 1: kind of adjacent to the Handmaid's Tale type thing, Like
Speaker 1: it's like I'm going to cover my body and but
Speaker 1: also like look like a Christmas present at the same time.
Speaker 1: The idea I I will never accept that like an
Speaker 1: entirely cover your body like binding and difficult to wear
Speaker 1: garment is transgressive, but that's what they're bindre extremely very comfortable.
Speaker 1: It's like if if something covers your whole body, you
Speaker 1: want to like tear a hole in it, only only
Speaker 1: if there's a fire going on, and you live in
Speaker 1: southern California, just get dangerous. I just get itchy. If
Speaker 1: you put me in like a prairie dress, I would
Speaker 1: get So. I have a prairie dress. It's made of rayon.
Speaker 1: It's like very soft and nice. That chevy dresses seem
Speaker 1: like they collect us. There's like lots of nooks and cranny.
Speaker 1: I just hate the look. I think only looks good
Speaker 1: on really tall, really skinny people that specific. Even then
Speaker 1: they could do better. I think I think it's just
Speaker 1: not my well, I'll tell you guys. Also another style
Speaker 1: style tip from the world of Dickinson. So, so you know,
Speaker 1: it was very important to us that we got all
Speaker 1: the details right about the period, at least at least
Speaker 1: that we knew what the truth was before we decided
Speaker 1: if we had to to to alter it. But most
Speaker 1: of the time we really did stick to the truth.
Speaker 1: But one of the places where it was really difficult
Speaker 1: was with um women's hair, because women's hair in the
Speaker 1: eighteen fifties was just so hideous and the men's hair
Speaker 1: is fabulous. Like if you look at these photographs of
Speaker 1: Austin Dickinson and his Amor's College classmates from the eighteen
Speaker 1: forties and fifties. They all have the most luscious, like
Speaker 1: hipster hair that just looks perfect, you know. So so
Speaker 1: every guy we cast, we had to tell them as
Speaker 1: soon as we cast them not to cut their hair
Speaker 1: because everyone has like this long, cool, so floppy like
Speaker 1: shock of hair. Yeah. And um. But but the men's
Speaker 1: looks in general, I think we're like just really attractive.
Speaker 1: And almost every man that got in the costume and
Speaker 1: was on set at one point would be like, why
Speaker 1: don't I dress like this? You know, like a top hat.
Speaker 1: A top hat makes you a foot taller and it
Speaker 1: makes you look so elegant. And now, okay, but as
Speaker 1: I'm saying this, I want to underline something, which is
Speaker 1: that it's very important to me that this never go
Speaker 1: anywhere near steampunk. All right, this is this is strictly
Speaker 1: like dandy dandy Yankee. Yeah, this is Yankee doodle dandy
Speaker 1: like in the chic. It's just can we talk about
Speaker 1: Yankee doodle dandy? Because I just learned about that. That
Speaker 1: Macaroni was like, do you know about this? This is
Speaker 1: why you said that. I think I've heard this because
Speaker 1: of my extensive research of what is it? Macaroni was
Speaker 1: like a slang term for men who were like Foppish
Speaker 1: and wore a lot of like fine silks. Macaroni is
Speaker 1: called the macaroni. The idea was that they thought fancy
Speaker 1: Italian clothes, like an Italian, but it was like a Yankee,
Speaker 1: like a term Yankees used deric Yankee. Okay, well, every
Speaker 1: guy on Dickinson, every guy on Dickinson is a macaroni. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yankee doodle When they say put a feather in his
Speaker 1: hat and called it macaroni, can we can we bring
Speaker 1: back macaroni? Is it? Is it? Kind of racist? You
Speaker 1: can't racist against Italian can't be racist against Italians? What
Speaker 1: are you talking about? That is the rule. You can
Speaker 1: do an Italian voice or a French voice. I disagree
Speaker 1: with this. My husband is Italian. Yeah, but the Italians
Speaker 1: are fine. They what do you object to a nice Yeah? Right,
Speaker 1: Oh guys, I'm scandalized. His father's name was Dondo, his
Speaker 1: brother's name's Lorenzo. We're just saying you can make fun
Speaker 1: of the Italians and the Irish and the French. The
Speaker 1: European groups are fine to all the New York Europeans. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to just make funny Yorkers. Sure, yes,
Speaker 1: that's all you can. Okay, so you can do any
Speaker 1: kind of gangs of New York style. Are there any
Speaker 1: other historical figures that you are thinking about bringing in?
Speaker 1: I know, maybe you don't want to spoil, but well,
Speaker 1: almost everybody, almost everybody in the show is based on
Speaker 1: an actual historical figure, meaning like a real person who
Speaker 1: was around in and around the town of Amherst, or
Speaker 1: friends with the Dickinson's or cross paths with them in
Speaker 1: some way. But then we have in a sort of
Speaker 1: slightly different category, we have like what I call like
Speaker 1: our celebrity cameos, which in season one is thorough, and
Speaker 1: then Louisa may Alcott, who's played by Sasha Mammitt, and um,
Speaker 1: it's very fun picking like which nine century people you
Speaker 1: most want to meet and and and them being maybe
Speaker 1: slightly random. Um, but I think I mean, obviously, for me,
Speaker 1: Louisa may Alcott is I mean, we obviously are in
Speaker 1: a little Women moment, and um, you know little Women.
Speaker 1: I feel like the creation of Dickinson for this show
Speaker 1: owes as much to you know, Louisa Alcott and Joe
Speaker 1: March as it does to Emily Dickinson, because that's what
Speaker 1: I read, and that's what like taught me how to
Speaker 1: tell a story in chapters about irrepressible young girl who
Speaker 1: gets into scrapes and it's always Um. I heard that
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone about this and they were
Speaker 1: saying that girls today aren't reading Little Women anymore, or
Speaker 1: they aren't reading Anne of green Gables and like, that's
Speaker 1: it's not true. I mean, it's weird because I at
Speaker 1: the same time, I feel like, like they did that
Speaker 1: New Ann of green Gables show a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: Little Women will get a Little women bump, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then new Little Women, and like it feels like people
Speaker 1: are like yes Joe, Like you know, like she's like
Speaker 1: this stock character that everybody knows and loves. But I
Speaker 1: can't tell if that's just people that are kind of
Speaker 1: our generation or if that's actually people who are younger. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: I'd like to request um Edgar Allan Poe. He wrote, Well, Molly,
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to speak to anything, but you may
Speaker 1: get your wish. I'll tell moll Afair. He wrote My
Speaker 1: Favorite Takedowns of the Transcendentalist. He wrote the bitchiest things
Speaker 1: about the Transcendentalists. I know, I know a lot of
Speaker 1: po facts. Um, he had an affair with his cousin
Speaker 1: who was fourteen. Uh, he drank himself to death? Wait
Speaker 1: did he actually Wasn't the cousin thing kind of exaggerated
Speaker 1: or something? Or I feel like I think this recently
Speaker 1: I was listening to sometimes podcast. Yeah. Um, I definitely
Speaker 1: felt like David Gordon Green had like high Gothic in
Speaker 1: him and this showed. But Southern Gothic, Southern Gothic is
Speaker 1: different from New England. Right, we're strict about ours here.
Speaker 1: Come on, Well, that's actually it's really interesting in the
Speaker 1: in the process of making this show. One one thing
Speaker 1: that I've learned is that everybody's kind of archetypal um past.
Speaker 1: Like if you think about American history, right, the place
Speaker 1: that you go in your mind is so determined by
Speaker 1: where you grew up. So people who grew up in
Speaker 1: California think about, you know, the Gold Rush and the
Speaker 1: Old West and you know, like maybe like the War
Speaker 1: with Mexico, although no that that might be Texas, but um,
Speaker 1: but you know, and then Mexico we are we are
Speaker 1: in Mexico, right, And then and then one of my
Speaker 1: writers and who was an EP on Season one, Darlene Hunt,
Speaker 1: who grew up in Kentucky. Like when I tell her,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, thinking period, She's only thinking in the
Speaker 1: Old South, you know. And me, I'm from the Hudson Valley,
Speaker 1: New York, and so I'm thinking about like Sleepy Hollow
Speaker 1: or like I guess you know certain Native American tribes
Speaker 1: that were around where I was, And um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's just it's just so funny because the
Speaker 1: only time you learn about history is in elementary school. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was just reading I read about Sleepy Hollow last
Speaker 1: night too, uh, because I watched the movie Pumpkinhead, which
Speaker 1: is the head of really Mislead Nice. Um he does
Speaker 1: not have a pumpkin head. But um, there was the
Speaker 1: whole thing about the Headless Horseman. I just was reading
Speaker 1: about where the heless Horseman came from and that it
Speaker 1: was the ghost of a Hessian soldier from the Revolutionary War,
Speaker 1: who were the German soldiers who aided the British. It
Speaker 1: was supposedly a guy, a Hessian soldier who had had
Speaker 1: his head blown off by a cannonball and haunted sleepy
Speaker 1: hollow um. Speaking of hauntings. M m Elena, you've been
Speaker 1: thinking of dead people, dead people. Wait, Molly, as you
Speaker 1: make this segue, I'm gonna say my one of my
Speaker 1: favorite Emily Dickinson quotes that I've been asked recently what
Speaker 1: are what are some of my favorites? So this one's
Speaker 1: on the tip of my of my head. Uh So,
Speaker 1: she wrote in a letter once to Thomas Higginson, she
Speaker 1: said nature is a haunted house, an art house that
Speaker 1: tries to be haunted. So to turn from the world
Speaker 1: of fiction to the world the the haunted Gothic uh,
Speaker 1: you know, world of reality. The news report came out
Speaker 1: today saying that Jeffrey Epstein's brother had an investigation into
Speaker 1: his brother's death in jail, supposedly by suicide, and his
Speaker 1: independent investigation determined that it was probably a murder. I'm shocked,
Speaker 1: no way, I know, it's like breaking something really obvious.
Speaker 1: Should we be a little suss about like the fact
Speaker 1: that it's his brother. I mean, what's his brother's what's
Speaker 1: his brother's deal? I'm something, I'm okay, three brothers. His
Speaker 1: brother's name is Mark Epstein. He also is in real
Speaker 1: estate and it's in New York. And Um, he is
Speaker 1: the one who collected Jeffrey's body from the um from
Speaker 1: the medical examiner and and had him, you know, allegedly
Speaker 1: buried in a in a like along with his parents
Speaker 1: in Florida. I think, and he may be the beneficiary
Speaker 1: of the incredibly suspicious trust that was created two days
Speaker 1: before Jeffrey Epstein died, which is called my favorite fact,
Speaker 1: is called the nineteen fifty three trust because that is
Speaker 1: the year that Epstein was born and you cannot think
Speaker 1: of a more boomer year to be so he created
Speaker 1: like the trust for all boomers. Um. But this is
Speaker 1: my question. So so the brother and also Epstein's lawyers,
Speaker 1: we're the ones who were like, we're going to conduct
Speaker 1: our own investigation into this whole thing. Um, Like, we're
Speaker 1: not going to accept the facts that have been presented.
Speaker 1: We're going to dig deeper. And I'm I am curious
Speaker 1: and confused what they hope to find. These aren't necessarily
Speaker 1: the parties that you would think of to go And
Speaker 1: you know, what do what do they gain from proving
Speaker 1: that somebody killed him? Right? Um? What do you make
Speaker 1: of the idea that Epstein and jis Laine were both
Speaker 1: Massad agents who were running a blackmail scheme on the
Speaker 1: rich and powerful um internationally. Well, I mean every time
Speaker 1: that I've ended up on a website that's saying that
Speaker 1: I've kind of thought to myself, Oh, have I fallen
Speaker 1: down an incredibly anti Semitic rabbit hole. It's not anti
Speaker 1: Semitic to be anti Zionist. That's true. That's true. Um,
Speaker 1: that's um the difficult distinction that is hard to explain,
Speaker 1: especially on the Internet, a place where distinctions fall away,
Speaker 1: distinctions in darkness. No, I mean, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think one of the questions I have about Epsten
Speaker 1: as a sort of black male scheme in and of himself,
Speaker 1: like whether you know, for Massad or for the CIA,
Speaker 1: is that it doesn't really quite make sense that if
Speaker 1: you were if your job was to like trap other
Speaker 1: powerful men into having sex with minors, that you would
Speaker 1: do it so much yourself. Well, that's the part that
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. But it's also like none of it
Speaker 1: makes sense, you know. But the idea that he like
Speaker 1: kept getting in trouble and like getting away with it
Speaker 1: speaks to me to the idea that he was being
Speaker 1: protected in some way I guess I don't find the
Speaker 1: Massad theory like very convincing, just because it does try
Speaker 1: to like turn this into a very big, like smart
Speaker 1: evil plot, like this masterminded thing, when really it feels
Speaker 1: just like one man's like a sex addict and a pedophile.
Speaker 1: I think that's what they think, But like I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, you can still harness that energy.
Speaker 1: You can still harness that energy to become song. Here's
Speaker 1: the universal theory is that Um j Lane's dad. We're
Speaker 1: calling her jis Lane Um, but we call her Jane
Speaker 1: because the pedophile awful person her dad was in Mossad
Speaker 1: and helped found the state of Israel, so that is
Speaker 1: like true. And then she supposedly was also in it,
Speaker 1: started dating Jeffrey Epstein and brought him into it um,
Speaker 1: and that's how he got access to the fancy people.
Speaker 1: Somebody on a totally way too far down the rabbit
Speaker 1: hole site that I went to found all these scraped
Speaker 1: stories also from British tabloids that had been scraped recently
Speaker 1: that we're like just about eptein the Society Man, and
Speaker 1: it found that like scraped by who scraped by the
Speaker 1: British press because the Royals, the Royals made them do it. Um. Uh,
Speaker 1: So there are things that say, like they call him
Speaker 1: a realtor. Basically very early on he's like a real
Speaker 1: estate type who so the ideas that he was getting
Speaker 1: funded by the State of Israel to like establish himself
Speaker 1: as like a rich real estate guy in New York
Speaker 1: and then obtained blackmail on a number of prominent American politicians.
Speaker 1: But how did so did gis Lane start dating him
Speaker 1: before he got funded to become a real estate nobody?
Speaker 1: He was just so she dated him before he was big. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also he got you know, he had a series
Speaker 1: of weird talented Mr Ripley things where he got this
Speaker 1: job at bear Sterns no experience here, and that was
Speaker 1: after the teaching hired to be a professor for no
Speaker 1: real like. I think he was a charismatic grifter and
Speaker 1: then he met another charismatic grifter and they formed a
Speaker 1: super super super group of grifters. Um. But that is
Speaker 1: the theory I have heard. Uh. I read a really
Speaker 1: long part that goes back to Iran contra Um. Molly,
Speaker 1: we've been we've been on the same website. Um. But
Speaker 1: but but here's my question. So where is all this
Speaker 1: blackmail material then, and whose hands is it in? And
Speaker 1: what about the fact that when the FBI rated his
Speaker 1: town house, which I also took a little visit to
Speaker 1: the other day, just a regular going on this side,
Speaker 1: doesn't nothing? You post a photo though it has his
Speaker 1: initials engraved in the door frame. Oh well yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean when they raided his town house, what about all
Speaker 1: those video tapes and everything that they found. Like, this
Speaker 1: is what's driving me crazy about this story is that
Speaker 1: you never get to ask the next question. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so wait what Like okay, so he hung himself with
Speaker 1: bedsheets in the in the shoe that no one has
Speaker 1: died in ever, or at least for the last twenty years,
Speaker 1: like what you know? Like where? I think that also
Speaker 1: just was like they think we're stupid. That's what that
Speaker 1: rights about, too. And I think a lot of this
Speaker 1: is like it is like reliving the JFK assassination thing,
Speaker 1: because it is like, oh, it doesn't even feel like
Speaker 1: they think we're stupid. It's like you can like say
Speaker 1: whatever you want, but there's nothing you can do about.
Speaker 1: It's more like they have all the power. They use
Speaker 1: their power apparently to enable people to have pedophile rings
Speaker 1: for the purpose of black mail, which just says that
Speaker 1: and also just that so many people said, yes, that's
Speaker 1: the crazy part to me that like I get, okay,
Speaker 1: this is i'll be phrase, I'll be phrase my objection
Speaker 1: to the to the blackmail scheme thing, at least the
Speaker 1: massad blackmail scheme thing, which is just that like I like,
Speaker 1: why why does pedophilia have to have a purpose, Like
Speaker 1: can't people just be sickos on their own? Like that
Speaker 1: are people who are sickos on their own? But I
Speaker 1: think this is a different thing. And I think this
Speaker 1: was a guy who was saying, as part of the
Speaker 1: world of privilege, you get to do things that other
Speaker 1: aren't allowed to do. That's like how Hollywood is fun.
Speaker 1: But that's not a blackmail. That's just like, hey, like
Speaker 1: you've you've reached the status where you like, you know,
Speaker 1: lots of people just do that and they don't then
Speaker 1: like record it and likes blackmail somebody. But that's what
Speaker 1: I think this specifically was just being like, hey, like
Speaker 1: Bill Gates or some other incredibly rich and powerful person,
Speaker 1: you're here among friends. We're all rich and powerful here
Speaker 1: on the sex Island. We can do whatever we want
Speaker 1: because we're above the law. Because that's true for really
Speaker 1: rich people, they are above the law. But then I
Speaker 1: just I guess I don't see why he would participate
Speaker 1: then instead of just being a pimp, like he didn't participate,
Speaker 1: I think. But I think he's a pedo. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 1: but I don't know that anyone would have participated in
Speaker 1: anything in that kind of scenario unless he might do
Speaker 1: it by participating himself. That's the only reason why anyone
Speaker 1: else did. Totally. It's like the cop who has to
Speaker 1: do drugs, they're not a dealer, um, but I mean,
Speaker 1: but he too, so it'saw like he's a cop. I
Speaker 1: had to I had like, I don't know. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so his prior this private investigation, Lena, we're running out
Speaker 1: of time, Okay, we're running out of time in this
Speaker 1: segments to solve the case, right, we can't get That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. There's just more questions. I mean, I
Speaker 1: have a question about when alex Acosta said that he
Speaker 1: was told to lay off Jeffrey Epstein because he quote
Speaker 1: unquote belonged to intelligence, Like what does that mean telling
Speaker 1: him the c I A or massador working together, we'll
Speaker 1: solve it next time when you come back on. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to his brother just for having this investigation
Speaker 1: done so that he'd be back in the news, because
Speaker 1: it does seem like the story is like falling more
Speaker 1: and more out of the news and people and they're
Speaker 1: counting on people to forget it, and I think they are,
Speaker 1: but well, this is what I this is. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that there's actually a lot more stuff that will
Speaker 1: get it back in the news. Yeah. And there was
Speaker 1: a crazy day the night's flying the other day about
Speaker 1: somebody else who's going to get out in in all this,
Speaker 1: So I don't know, but but it feels to me
Speaker 1: like this massive organizational project that has to happen, like
Speaker 1: which I think we have to do, and I've already
Speaker 1: told about it. This is what should be for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you should bring if not us, who I mean, we
Speaker 1: have to stand up, we have to take responsibility. We
Speaker 1: have to say we will get to the bottom of this,
Speaker 1: we will join hands, we will not let this be forgotten. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I well, not in our names. Well, I look forward
Speaker 1: to your investigation team being formed in between seasons one
Speaker 1: and two off So I also, if you want to
Speaker 1: make people talk to you more about this, I'm sure
Speaker 1: we all do. We want to talk to strangers about
Speaker 1: this more. Um. Jack Am is now selling some merch
Speaker 1: that is a sweatshirt that says Epstein Theories, which is
Speaker 1: one of their couches. Okay, I feel free to buy
Speaker 1: an Epstein Theories sweatshirt and support the Epstein and on.
Speaker 1: I think that I think that you know, much like
Speaker 1: Emily Dickinson herself, when people get interested in Jeffrey Epstein,
Speaker 1: you know, they just find themselves sucked into a mystery
Speaker 1: that will last for centuries. Don't don't underestimate teenage girls
Speaker 1: and people who used to be them. Okay, then exactly, Amen, Elena,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Molly, thank you, Emily, and Test.
Speaker 1: Everybody checks out fun to talk to you guys. Everybody
Speaker 1: check out Dickinson on Apple check. You can find it
Speaker 1: right now on your phone, on your TV, on even
Speaker 1: on your web browser. It's very easy to find. Just
Speaker 1: you know, just find it and just watch it. Okay.
Speaker 1: It will radicalize the next generation into getting into more
Speaker 1: scrapes and toms. That's what that's what we're hoping than Bye,
Speaker 1: thank you for listening Tonight Call this week, and thank
Speaker 1: you so much to Elena for coming on and chatting
Speaker 1: with us. Uh that does it for us this week.
Speaker 1: You can follow us on social media on Twitter at
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