WEBVTT - EP 30 - Tina 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 A friend of mine described it really well. She said, 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:09.000 it's not like he's a catch me if you can 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:15.640 type person. He actually lies to make himself. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.840 As normal as possible, just like your average boat. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:37.000 And it's true his bacade was authenticity. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.840 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, A show about 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.120 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:51.200 change everything. Tina Maya is a successful e commerce consultant 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:57.280 in the UK. In twenty sixteen, a casual, romantic fling 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:02.320 turned her entire world upside down. It showed her a 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:07.679 dark side of humanity, one that she'd never seen before. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.839 There's definitely an element of control. He can walk away, 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.960 but he can remotely control the rest of your life. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.919 Her story is also one of community. Along the way, 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:25.680 she found a group of other women who had been 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:30.000 deceived and betrayed by the same man. Tina's become their 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:39.000 spokesperson and the spokesperson for a much larger story. Tina 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.480 was raised to be opinionated and strong willed. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.959 So I was born in Iran actually before the revolution. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.480 We came here in nineteen seventy eight, and I grew 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:56.600 up in Southeast England, though very green leafy parts of 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:57.000 the world. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:02.200 When she graduated from university, traveled and spent years living abroad. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.160 I went to Australia, in Thailand and India, as well 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.239 a lot of places Costa Rica. You know that I 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.239 spent a lot of time of building my career and 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:15.120 living life. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.000 In the nineties and two thousands, Tina was early to 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.560 adopt the internet's potential, especially for commerce and online retail. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.560 She made a career working in digital sales that ended 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.760 up taking her to New York City, where she met 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:34.120 her husband. By her mid thirties, he welcomed the son, Leo. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.360 He was an incredible baby and I really enjoyed becoming 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:39.720 a mother. 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.760 But her husband, on the other hand, struggled. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.840 He wasn't a very handsome father. It was just thea 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:49.920 when me it gets work. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.320 For a while, when Tina was offered a prestigious job 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.160 back in the UK, she separated from her husband and 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.520 made the leap. Now her daily life was focused on 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.200 work and raising her son. For Tina, being a single 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.840 mom to one child felt manageable. She loved that dynamic. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:14.480 I was at a mom's drinks thing and I remember 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.040 having a conversation with one of the moms who had 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.000 a lot of problems with the second child. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.720 Oh my god, you got it right, like one child 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:24.720 the tree. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.840 When her son started grade school, Tina had more nights 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:30.440 to herself. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.919 He spends more time with friends, he goes sleepovers, but 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:39.320 a little bit more independence. I wasn't actively going out 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.600 and dating or anything like that. I was so busy. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.200 I wasn't even thinking about dating. It wasn't on the radar. 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.080 In twenty sixteen, she attended a tech conference in London. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.720 That day she must have met in exchange contact info 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.480 with at least thirty people, one of them being Neil Lahman. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:05.960 He's a very charismatic person. He's very good looking. I 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.960 suppose he was a bit flirtatious. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.040 Neil was from Essex. To put it in American terms. 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.720 I guess the American version would be Jersey, sure. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.799 Big party culture in spray hands. Tina's interaction with Neil 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.599 was nothing special, just a friendly exchange of business guards. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:32.159 She assumed it was a professional connection, but soon Neil 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:33.240 began texting her. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.800 And then one day he texted me and I had 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:42.680 just closed a very significant deal, so I was in 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.760 a very good mood, and he said that he was 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.279 in the area and asked me if I fancied going. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.560 For a drink that night. Her son was at a sleepover. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.680 I said, you know what, why not. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.000 It was perfect timing, so they met at a neighborhood pub. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.640 We sat down and started talking. He was very open, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.640 asked me about you my life. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.599 She talked about her son and her ex husband in America, 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.880 and Neil shared details about his past. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.080 He told me that his ex wife they lived together 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.760 in the US, and she had cheated on him and 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.279 she'd run off with his best friend. 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:30.000 The reason his wife had left was because Neil couldn't 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:31.040 have kids. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.240 She was very bitter about the fact that he couldn't 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.480 give her children. And then he went on to tell 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.560 me about the fact that he'd had cancer and has 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.720 testicular cander, so it was impossible. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.720 It was a touchy subject. Neil seemed deeply hurt by 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.120 his ex wife. Tina felt for him. 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.320 He seemed almost a little bit vulnerable, like he had 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.240 this sort of emotional vulnerability about him. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.839 The name was going well, and before long they found 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.520 themselves in another bar, making jokes and inching closer together. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.160 She liked him, but she wanted to keep it casual. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.200 I didn't see it as being a long term, serious 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.320 relationship prospect. That was not where my head was. It's 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.400 not the sort of time that I had. I wasn't 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.279 interested in bringing anyone into my son's life. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.599 It was just letting my head down and having a 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:30.920 bit of. 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.719 Fun, really, and Neil knew how to have a good time. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.640 He had that sort of cheeky, chappy, jack the lad 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:41.200 kind of thing about him. 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:42.839 It was fun. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.400 At the end of their night together. 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.919 He walked me home in the very early hours of 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:50.440 the morning. 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.120 They kissed goodnight, and Neil said he wanted to see 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.479 her again. He was often in her area because he 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.880 owned and managed a few properties there. He promised to 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.960 text the next time he was in her neighborhood, and 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.880 he did so. After their first night out together. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.880 He continued to text me, and then he would come 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.080 over once a week or so. 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.080 Tina couldn't remember the last time she had a fling 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.600 like this. It had to have been well before her marriage. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.080 It was just what she needed. It made her feel 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:29.440 sexy and confident. Before they slept together, I said. 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.520 To him that it wasn't on the pill. Does he 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:37.000 have anything? Said no, I'm really allergic to late text. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.800 Tina was forty one, and after his testicular cancer treatments, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:47.040 Neil couldn't have kids without the pill or using regular condoms. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.360 They settled on another method. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:55.760 I was quite adamant about using withdrawal methods, and I 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.280 asked him, did you withdraw in time? Because I could 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:01.840 have gone and got a plan B. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:04.400 But he was like no. Absolutely. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.960 Over the next few months, they saw each other whenever 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.120 they could, and Tina got to know more about him. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.600 He said that he went to the London School of Economics, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:22.600 which is sort of Harvard Business School level. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.680 But when Tina tried to talk about the neighborhood where 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.920 are the school's located, Meal seemed confused, like he didn't 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.400 know the area. But it had been decades since Neil 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.199 was in school, so Tina didn't think much of it. 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.040 I didn't really question it too much. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.480 I wasn't thinking of him as husband's material or something, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.760 so things weren't registering too much with me. 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.520 Eventually, Neil's appeal started to wear off. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.959 There was just one too many things that just wasn't 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:54.400 adding out. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.840 Who ring true, Like he would make a plan and 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:02.599 then have some weird excuse and like it started to 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:03.400 be less fun. 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.640 Now she was ready to move on, so she stopped 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.360 responding promptly to his texts. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.240 Kind of wanted to phase it out anyway, So it 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:14.160 got a little cold. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.679 A few weeks later, she didn't feel quite like herself. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:20.760 It was misplacing things. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.040 I was looking for my car keys all over the 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.319 place and realized that I'd turned them in the wheelie 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:29.319 bin with. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.360 My rubbish when I threw the rubbish out. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.000 This feeling was familiar. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.800 Funny thing I normally handy two things like that when 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:43.599 I'm pregnant. I don't get morning sickness, I don't get cravings, 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.600 but I get very forgetful. 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.319 She confided in a friend about what was going on. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.240 She said, to me, go and get a pregnancy test. 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.240 And she said, as soon as you do that, I 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.000 mean you realize that you know you're not pregnant, then 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.280 the period of p I'm like, you know that, that's 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:02.040 a really good idea. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:04.560 So she got the test. 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.480 So I went to the back room and read the 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.280 instructions and then yeah, popped the lad on your face 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:18.160 to wait three minutes. Immediately came up quite nun okay, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.679 I'll just wait the full three minutes for the knot 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:22.560 to come up. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.680 She was pregnant at forty one. Even though it was 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:34.120 unexpected and unplanned, she felt immediately connected to this child. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:40.120 It's hard to describe, but she was very present in me, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:46.320 very early on. There was something very very strong about 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.120 this present and I felt that right away. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.720 Even still, it was a massive shock because the baby 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:56.200 had to be meals. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.240 There hadn't been anybody. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.920 Else but Neil was infertile, so this baby was a 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:09.040 medical miracle. Tina turned to her friend, who suggested maybe 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.400 Neil would be happy about the baby. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.800 She was like, oh, these he is. He didn't know 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.280 that he could have children. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.240 Miracle baby or not. Tina knew that she and Neil 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.000 didn't have a future together. Now she had to break 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.640 up with him and tell him the news. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.400 Wow, okay, this is going to be awkward. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:36.480 Then she took a few days to think and finally 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:37.720 sent Neil a message. 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.360 So I said, I need to talk to you, but 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.800 to meet up tomorrow. I can come to meet you, 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.400 but need to have a little chat. And then he 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.640 said something along the lines of yeah, yeah, sure, I'll 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.920 send my brother to meet you and I know because 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.920 we need to talk, and he said, well, I don't 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.960 see why there's anything you can't tell me here. I 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.160 was like, really, you want me to tell you what 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.880 I need to tell you over text and he said yeah. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.600 I was like, okay, Hi, if you insist, and so 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.760 I said, I am pregnant. You are the only option 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:25.000 of who the father is. And then he answered a 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.520 little bit strangely, he said, nice, try. I had a 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:30.160 vasect to me. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:32.320 I was like. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:37.439 Thesectomy, and I sent him a picture of the pregnancy 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.480 test and I said, well it didn't work. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.800 She wasn't expecting anything from him. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.120 One of the things that I immediately said was I'm 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:53.480 not expecting or asking you to be a father to 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:55.640 the child. I am letting you know because it's a 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.000 responsible thing to do, and you can be as I'm involved, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.040 as you wish. 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.800 She didn't know how he would react, but she certainly 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.400 wasn't expecting what happened. Next. 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.200 Things turned nasty on his part, which took me aback. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.000 He said, the whole load of nasty voice mails. 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.160 Hi, Tya, let's talk about this baby. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:23.080 Okay. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.840 Now there's something very strange about this baby. Let me 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:27.320 explain it. 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.160 To you, and you could just hear in his voice 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:34.880 that turn, and how nasty he became, as like real viteroal. 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.320 In these messages, Neil doubled down on his story. 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.880 I have zero span is medically impossible. If it were, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.679 I'd still be living happier with my wife in the USA. 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.800 We split up because she wanted kids and I couldn't 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.160 have them. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.199 As the messages and cars kept coming, they got more personal. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.120 He said thing that you'd be a single mom, you 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.200 won't be able to get a job, and you won't 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.040 be able to work, and you'll be. 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.920 Poor, then meaner and. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.480 Oh he accused me of thinking of him as a 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:11.160 cash can. 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:13.959 Then kind of scary. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.079 And then he said that he had gone to the 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.240 police and reported me to the police. At first he 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.600 said harassment, and then he said that he'd reported me 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:23.560 for entrapment. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.640 And some of his messages were downright strange. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.920 He started to come up with a story when he 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.640 was in the hospital with his kidney infection, they found 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.120 cancer cells, and how selfish I am, and what a 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.200 horrible person I am at having told him that I 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.960 was pregnant, then that I'm basically killing. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:49.280 Him from her first date with Neil. She knew he 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.840 wasn't a keeper. She had no idea he could be 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:53.560 this cruel. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:15:00.160 Whoa, This is not normal. This was really strange. 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.560 So I'm going to tell you something. I will have 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.200 nothing to do with you, nothing to do with you 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:08.880 claiming I'm father with your child. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:10.680 You can keep the baby. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.720 Great for you, but it ain't mind, darling. It's seriously, seriously, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.120 he isn't mine. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.000 I just thought he was an assphole. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.680 My friend, who's kinder than me, thought that he was 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.760 in some sort of state of shock because he thought 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.440 he could never have children. 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.080 But Neil wasn't in shock, and he wasn't in denial. 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.480 Tina didn't know it at the time, but this was 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.520 something far more insidious. 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.400 This is something that he's got too many, many, many 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:38.320 many times over. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.040 When Tina Maya told the man she'd been casually dating 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.880 she was pregnant, he became a different person. Neil Lawman 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.640 started sending her callous voice messages about how the baby 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.880 could not possibly be his. He even accused Tina of harassment. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.600 Regardless of his disturbing reaction, Tina wanted to have the 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.200 baby on her own. She was sure of that, so 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.800 After his vitriolic messages, she drew a boundary with Neil. 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.400 Said, yeah, I'll let you know when she's born and 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.880 you can decide if you want to have a dnatist 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.240 or not. That's you're right, And then he replied, no, 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.320 thank you. I will not be participating in any dnatist. Okay, 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:41.800 no worries. 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.440 As far as Tina was concerned, Neil was out of the. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.800 Picture, and I went on obviously I had a lot 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:49.320 to deal with. 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.680 She blocked him and moved forward with the rest of 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.960 her pregnancy. It wouldn't be her first time as a 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.800 single mom. Tina's friends and family rallied around her to 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.879 buy support, and she needed it, especially when the baby 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:05.240 was born. 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.840 When I went into labor, both she and I got 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.000 an infection. She wet blue, and she was there in 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.480 an incubator. She also had very very very bad georgice. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:23.239 Her newborn baby, Josephine, was in critical condition. She had 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.040 a severe lung infection. The doctor wanted to prepare for 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:28.280 a blood transfusion. 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:30.439 He said, so, you know, just in case of the 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.280 worst case scenario, we're going to need to get medical history, 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.320 blood types of parents. In cases some kind of rarity, 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.320 the genetic rarity or something like that. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.159 It's like, well, I could only give you half. 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.080 But half wasn't good enough, especially considering Neil's history of cancer. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.720 There was probably a complex medical history that we needed 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.640 to know about before we get this baby a blood transfusion. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:56.160 She was two days old. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.440 Instead of reaching out to Neil, she decided to call 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.720 one of his friends, the only friend of his she 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:04.720 knew how to reach. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.600 I said, listen, here's my hospital number, and this is 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:13.600 the doctor's name. Can you just have him tell them blood's, 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.280 like any kind of medical history, anything like that. 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.520 Neil's friend tried to get him to go or at 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.159 least to call the hospital at Is. 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.640 I know absolutely. I told him he needs to get 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.440 his down there right away. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.360 But Neil never showed up. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.920 No call has come through to researchers. So yeah, he's 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.040 not here and has not been here. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.440 And then while Tina was lying in her hospital bed, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.200 she got a text from Neil. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.200 He sent me long abusive text messages. 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:47.440 There. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:52.240 I wouldn't lift a finger to help your child, even 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.320 if she did have my DNA. I'm not giving any 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:03.040 information to any doctors. I'm like, oh, okay, you are 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.800 a psychopath. This is a two day old baby, and 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.800 all I asked is for you to make a phone call, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:16.560 which anybody would do for a stranger's baby, for a kitten. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.760 No human being would refuse to make a phone call 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:24.960 to potentially, say, a baby. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:31.480 But Neil refused. He was not interested in helping the baby. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.200 He was more concerned with lashing out at Tina. 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:40.480 That he called me vile tongued, foul woman and all 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:41.880 sorts of like, horrible name. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:42.320 It's not you. 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:43.560 I just given birth. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.159 I was in hospital with needles stuck in me for 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.320 the antibiotics and things like that. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.399 But this is a really evil person. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:55.760 She was beyond anger. 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.840 I was disgusted. I was disgusted. I was like, yeah, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.919 whatever you are, you have no humanity. 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.720 Up until this moment, she'd planned to raise the baby 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.679 completely on her own, without asking Neil for a single penny, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.000 But after he showed his true. 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.840 Colors, she decided, you know what, I'm just going to 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:19.840 send the Chelseapool Agency how to keep for the next 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.080 eighteen years. Bye bye. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.840 She figured the courts could handle Neil and she and 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.680 her family could move on. Luckily, her newborn daughter recovered 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.280 without needing a blood transfusion. 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.520 After a week of being in hospital, we were both 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:36.440 able to go home. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.840 When she got home with Josephine or Fifi as she 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.440 calls her, their house was full of joy. Her son, 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.879 who was eight, became a doting big brother. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.240 Right son adored her from day one. 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.720 And she's just the sweetest baby. 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.560 Now with two children to support, Tina had to return 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.200 to work just two weeks later. 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.040 So I took the mandatory two weeks and went back 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.679 to work and I was back on a train in London. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.920 I had a nanny and my friend helped me out 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.440 also with hope and yeah, that's work. 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.000 One day, while she was on her way to work, 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.719 she decided to call the UK's child support agency to 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:24.119 get the paperwork started for child support. After they looked 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:29.479 into Tina's claim, the agency contacted her with surprising news 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:30.600 about Neil. 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.800 It came back that firstly, it said that he only 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.359 had to pay five pounds a week because he was 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.200 in receipt of benefits. 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.920 Meaning that Neil was on unemployment. But that didn't add 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.800 up to Tina. She met him at a tech conference. 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.320 He owned his own company. She'd met his coworkers. She 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.280 tried to explain this to the child support agency, and I. 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.920 Said, well, he's not, and if he is, he shouldn't 0:21:59.920 --> 0:22:02.280 be because he's got a business. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.359 I mean, I've seen it. I know he has a 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:06.440 functioning business. 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.880 But the government didn't have records of his businesses or income. 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:13.600 And that wasn't all. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:14.400 Yeah. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.320 Other interesting thing was that five pounds a week it 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.120 was split between my daughter and three other children. 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:27.800 I was like, okay, so here's a new spin. 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.600 Neil had three other children? What about his story of 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:40.600 being infertile. Tina went into investigation mode, searching for business 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.560 and personal records of Neil Lawman. 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.240 I went all the way back to one from a 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:48.040 number of years ago. 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.320 In Neil's records, she found the name of a woman 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.119 someone who changed her last name to Lawman. 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:59.520 Says, okay, that must be his ex wife. If she 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.560 is an it might be his current wife. 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.359 Maybe this was the woman he'd been married to in 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.880 the States. But Tina didn't really know what to believe anymore. 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.040 At this point, I realized that there's a lot of 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:16.119 lie So I go on Facebook and Norman isn't a 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:20.360 common name. I put it up and there's her Facebook profile. 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:25.000 The first thing she noticed about her profile she was not. 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.520 In America, She's right here in the UK. 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:32.760 And the second pictures of two girls who are undoubtedly 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:34.280 his daughter's. 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:40.880 Looking at the photos of two little girls clearly related 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:45.760 to Neil made Tina's headspin. At the very least, she 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:47.600 knew she'd found the right person. 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:52.639 So I text her on Facebook and yeah, obviously I 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.000 didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how she 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.480