1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't mean to put you on the spot here. 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. 3 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Could the president not make it up the main stairs 4 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: on the presidential aircraft. 5 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 3: Of course he can, and I know he can, but 6 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 3: it goes back to them. So why isn't he What 7 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 3: I bounced thee from being there was it was an 8 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 3: impulse to protect, to prevent, almost like a preventative measure defense. Yeah, 9 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 3: people want these want to implement strategies, but they're kind 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 3: of scared to take risks because they're so scared about 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 3: what the downside. Could be. 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: Very pleased to be joined at the two hundred and 13 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: four days out mark from the presidential election with Michael Lrosa, 14 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: who is a Capitol Hill veteran, a veteran journalist, and 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: was Press Secretary to the First Lady and Special Assistant 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: to the President of the United States of America. 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: Michael, welcome, Thanks for having me, Steve take us in. 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: The White House from a really unique vantage point as 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: having been principal communications aide to the First Lady In 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: a moment like right now of national crisis where you 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: have a direct attack by Iran against Israel, the United 22 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: States is involved in the action defending Israel. President is 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: convening the G seven. It's on a week where there 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: was a state dinner where two hundred and forty AA's 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: out from a presidential election. Take us inside what is 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: happening around the White House, but specifically in the dynamic 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: of the people that you know as human beings. 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 3: I think back to some of my experiences, like well 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: during Afghanistan and then at the beginning of the Ukraine 30 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: of the Ukraine invasion that the Afghanistan withdrawal. There's a 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: couple to say, a couple of weeks in the White 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 3: House that felt you could feel like you can felt 33 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: how they were dark days, but you could feel the 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: tension and the the stress because the images that are 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: playing on TV are playing on every TV throughout the 36 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: White House, and the President was, you know, the commander 37 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 3: in chief and taking the taking the heat for it. 38 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: There is an uneasiness there because you know that the 39 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 3: pressures your spouse is facing are so high stakes, and 40 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 3: especially when it comes to the bidens and the and 41 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 3: the military. You know, it was it was really sad 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 3: and it was really hard again because they didn't lose 43 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: a son any war, but they had a sun go 44 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: away to war and they had they've had tragedy in 45 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: their lives, so those situations, you know, she's feeling pain 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: for him. And we were we were going to go 47 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: to Campbell's union because as you know, she does a 48 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: lot of work with the military family reason, there was 49 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 3: nervousness about opening it up to the press, and I 50 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: thought it was a mistake that we didn't. But in 51 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: the end we didn't go us back to sort of 52 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: protective impulse to protect them at all costs, and I thought, 53 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: you know, I said to her, I said, this is 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: the moment that military families need you the most. You're 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 3: not making these decisions. They note that, but that's what 56 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 3: supporting military. This is the time when you need to 57 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: be supporting those military families. And there were two two 58 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 3: I think believe one or two of the soldiers who 59 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: died at the Abbey Gate were stationed at Campell June, 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: and so it was going to be a big deal 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: when we got there to Camp Pula June. The roommate 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: of the sergeant who the female sergeant who died, had 63 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: COVID and so she came to see us but couldn't 64 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: get out of her car. So Doctor B got out 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: of the motorcade and put her hand up to the window, 66 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: pressed her hand up against the window of the of 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 3: the roommate's car. People had tears coming down their eyes. 68 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: But you know, I didn't see the president a lot. 69 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 3: I remember being at Camp David and he with them 70 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: one weekend and he just wasn't you know, he's working constantly. 71 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: That they'll she'll tell you. 72 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: They both they come home, they go to dinner at 73 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: night together in their dining room, usually around seven six 74 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: forty five something around there, and then they're both reading 75 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 3: briefing books for the rest of the night. 76 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: She's usually to bed earlier and up earlier. 77 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 3: He's usually to bed later, and I think gets up 78 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: in the morning and does a workout on the third 79 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: floor and then comes down and going down to the office. 80 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: But they consider the briefing books away of life. They're 81 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 3: always reading briefing books. And the briefing books are there 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 3: when your eyes, she sees them all over the tables. 83 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: So one more story on just sort of trying to 84 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 3: lend some color. 85 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: We were in. 86 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: San Francisco, are about the start right after the Russians 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 3: invaded Ukraine, and it was again the images on te 88 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 3: that really affect you affected her affect him, and it's jarring. 89 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: And we were at fundraisers. 90 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 3: You try to be a little bit more candid, and 91 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 3: or at least you try to, you know, I don't 92 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 3: know Tress isn't there, but there's a ra poor reporter. 93 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: But you you know, people, I think ten politicians tend 94 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: to be a little bit more candid when they're talking 95 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: to their supporters. And we were talking about you know, 96 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: she kind of ripped up her speech and said, I 97 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 3: want to. 98 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: I was going to say, there's a display of performative intimacy. 99 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 3: Yeahs, that's a great way to put it. 100 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: Performative intiacy. 101 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 3: And we're sitting in the hotel like that morning and 102 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: trying to she didn't want to give a standard speech. 103 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: She wanted to just talk because it felt tone deaf, 104 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: you know, to not talk about what's going on in Ukraine, 105 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 3: but instead to talk about raising money for the midterms. 106 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: You know, it was, it was, it was a little weird, 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 3: but I said, you know, I think you should remind 108 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 3: them that they're getting a return on their investment, because 109 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 3: people at that point, the way we handled the lead 110 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 3: up to that war, I think the president in the 111 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: White House did a great job of keeping the coalition together, 112 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: strengthening NATO, but also having the back of the Ukrainians 113 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 3: and keeping everybody united. And I said, you need to 114 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: tell them that he has been negotiating with the Russians 115 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 3: since he was thirty sixty years old, Like, this is 116 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 3: the three am phone call, This is the moment. This 117 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 3: is the reason why even if you didn't want to 118 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 3: vote for Joe Biden that you know, you wanted somebody 119 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: more progressive on healthcare, or you wanted somebody more progressive 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 3: on student. 121 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: Loans or whatever. 122 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: This is why you voted for the man. Because he's 123 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: been doing this his entire life. There's no one better 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 3: to be in this moment, more experienced, more capable in 125 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 3: this moment than him. Your question just sort of reminded 126 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: me of that moment. Is the two of them as 127 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 3: a couple, You know, they have this enduring love story, 128 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 3: and it's true they text and talk throughout the day. 129 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 3: When we were leaving Ukraine, when I was with the 130 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 3: first lady in the car, she called him as soon 131 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: as we crossed back into Slovakia. 132 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: You know, he's always concerned. 133 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 3: In the middle of the day, he's calling to see 134 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 3: what we're doing, to make sure that you know. 135 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: There were a normal married couple. It's what I can say. 136 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: I know people don't believe me, but I noticed just 137 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 3: a dependency on each other that is, you know, real 138 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: and rooted in love. So fit almost five decades, and 139 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 3: when times like this are challenging for him, you know, 140 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 3: she feels it as his spouse, protective spouse, and so 141 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: she's reading everything in the New York Times and everywhere else. 142 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: She's reading all the criticisms. She's getting the protests too. 143 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: She knows the pressures of the moment on him, and 144 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: so they do try to keep some semblance of a 145 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 3: routine where they see each other at night and then 146 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 3: it's back to the briefing books after that. 147 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: Well, I'm just imagining that that's quite a difference between 148 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: the Bidens and the Trumps, because Donald Trump, while he 149 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: is munching down the cheeseburger in bed at six thirty 150 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: pm between a couple of rounds of handshakes of mar 151 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: A Lago, is definitely not reading the briefing books. And 152 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: when you think about authentic love and authentic partnership, on 153 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: this the first day of the porn Star hush money 154 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: trial taking place in New York. The contrast between the 155 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: two men in terms of their character and fitness is 156 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: just mind boggling, but nevertheless a close race. 157 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 3: It is the contrasted integrity and values is so we've 158 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: come such a long way since the late nineties when 159 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 3: new Gingerd said he was never going to do another 160 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: interview without talking about the values of Brooklinton and the 161 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 3: Monica Lewinsky fair, We've. 162 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: Come such a long way. 163 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 3: This is a president that goes to see if I 164 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: gotta tell you, I don't know how often you had 165 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 3: to go to church on your campaigns, but I have 166 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: not gone to church so much in my lifetime than 167 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 3: I did between two nineteen and twenty twenty two. That 168 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 3: man goes to first of all, That man goes to 169 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: church every weekend and devoutly Catholic. And I don't know 170 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: how he does it, but even if it was snowing 171 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: in Iowa, he was at a church and we were 172 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 3: not staying at the four Seasons, let's put it that way. 173 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: But he was going to a church every week. And 174 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 3: his integrity and his character have always been a source 175 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 3: of what I thought was part of his political superpower. 176 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: And that's why it really bothered me when people Republicans 177 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 3: were really trying to smear his son, smear his family, 178 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: smear him and lie about this whole you know, Biden 179 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 3: corruption thing. It really bothered me that he wasn't punching 180 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: back more and sort of defending his honor. I've watched 181 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 3: these ratings, these favorable ratings and drop for him, and 182 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 3: it just it hurts my heart because, if anything, you 183 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 3: can hate everything he's doing as president, but the man 184 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 3: is one of the most honorable people you'll ever meet. 185 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: Two hundred and four days out or are you worried? 186 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: Do you think the president has things in hand? What 187 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: is the likelihood when you put your head down tonight 188 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: that you think when we go to bed on election 189 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: night or some time early the next day, network broadcasts 190 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: will be saying that Donald Trump has been elected forty 191 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: seventh president of the United States. How do you see 192 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: where things are right now? 193 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 3: Well, I still think it's a fifty to fifty race. 194 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: The New York Times poll that came out over the 195 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 3: weekend sort of matched what people on you know, cable 196 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: news and sort of the pundred chee class has been saying. 197 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 3: Is that that his numbers are slightly ticking up. 198 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: They are moving in the right direction. 199 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: I think what concerns me, though, is just knowing that 200 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty we didn't trail Trump 201 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: in any poll, and so the fact that he still 202 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 3: can't climb over that hurdle does concern me because at 203 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 3: some point I think he has to start creating some 204 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: consistent distance. 205 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: I mean, you would know. 206 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: I've been watching campaigns and observing them and worked on 207 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: one presidential campaign, but you would know better. I would 208 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 3: assume that at some point those numbers need to change 209 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 3: and he has to pull away a little bit. I 210 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 3: also am not sure how useful polls are that aren't 211 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: measuring you know, third party alternatives as well as part 212 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 3: of that head to head right, because so much of 213 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 3: this feels like twenty sixteen all over. 214 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: You've had an interesting seat to life in Washington. You've 215 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: worked in journalism, You've worked on the hill, You've worked 216 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: in a presidential administration, You've worked in the private sector 217 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: for a public affairs firm. When you evaluate where we 218 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: sit today nine years in to the Trump era, the 219 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: United States is a two party system. You're a Democrat, 220 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: I've been a Democrat for the last couple of years, 221 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: but spent a long part of my career in the 222 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: Republican Party and working at the top levels of the party, 223 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: running running campaigns. If this was a sports lead, this 224 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: is a two team league. Why can't the Democratic Party 225 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: put this away? What is it about the Democratic Party 226 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: that the country is looking at and saying, nah Trump? 227 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: What do you think that is? 228 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: One? 229 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: I don't know if that the entire like, I don't 230 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 3: know if the entire country is saying nah Trump. I 231 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: don't agree with Governor Sanni that fifty one percent of 232 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: the country are you saying that? I think there's two things. 233 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 3: One and this is kind of why I want to 234 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: leave television. Our mainstream media has really developed a dependency 235 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: on Trump that I saw being there in the control room, 236 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 3: being there editorially. There is a dependency whether you are Fox, MSNBC, 237 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: or CNN. I don't think bad news really affects him 238 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 3: in the way that it has with normal, traditional, conventional 239 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: political candidates. So the more more saturated we are with Trump, 240 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 3: I think the more immunized people voters become to him 241 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: and find find him entertaining. An interesting peculiar and unpolitician 242 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 3: like I also think. Now, I just want to say, 243 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 3: you know, I was on the Biden train very early. 244 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: I was I wanted Biden to run more than anybody 245 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: because I thought he was the one that could could 246 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 3: beat Donald Trump. And I was lucky enough to work 247 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: for him and work on that camp pain, and work 248 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 3: for his wife and get to know his family. And 249 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: I have a lot of affection for the Bidens. And 250 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: I was not a no labels person. I was not 251 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: somebody looking for an alternative. I thought the president has 252 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 3: been one of the most effective. You can disagree on substance, 253 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 3: but I think he's been one of the most effective. 254 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: Presidents in my lifetime. 255 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: I think he will have done more in two years 256 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: than most presidents do in four or eight. That said, 257 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: I do think in twenty twenty, if you're just pragmatic 258 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 3: and you just look at politics and you take your 259 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: team Blue or Team red hat off for a minute, 260 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 3: just look at the primary and look at the general, 261 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 3: there were a lot of people that gave him the 262 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt, who probably didn't want to vote 263 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: for him, but knew he was the guy that could 264 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 3: beat Donald Trump, get rid of Donald Trump, and they thought. 265 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 3: I think there was a lot of people that thought 266 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 3: he was going to be sort of a transition to 267 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: sort of a younger generation of of political talent. And 268 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: I think a lot of those people thought they were 269 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 3: making a deal with Joe Biden. And I think they're 270 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: parking their frustrations in other places right now because they 271 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 3: think he broke the deal that said, like twenty sixteen, 272 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: this isn't eat your vegetables and drink your medicine election, 273 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: like you have to charisma and charm and cult to personality. 274 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: It's just not a way to go. 275 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: About voting for president, and particularly when the stakes are 276 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 3: so high. So I don't know why the Democrats can't 277 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: put it away, but those are two of the reasons 278 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 3: I think that sort of lead us to where we are, 279 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 3: with how close this election appears to be on paper 280 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: right now. 281 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: Do you think the president broke his deal implicantly? 282 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: No? 283 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I think that people thought, because 284 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: age has been a factor elect in the last election too, 285 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 3: that maybe he wouldn't run. There has not been en 286 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: a president his age she was run before, so I 287 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: don't think people saw it. But I think Democrats are 288 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 3: much more establishment and elite driven and financial driven than 289 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 3: even Republicans are these days. You know, business has had 290 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 3: to take a whole new approach to how they deal 291 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: with government and politics because their usual allies are no 292 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 3: longer allies, and voters are taking a look at that too. 293 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: And politics doesn't change just because of moments. And I 294 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 3: think if people thought that Joe Biden was gonna just 295 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: hand over power willingly from a job that he aspired 296 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: to his entire life, and by the way, has been 297 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: pretty good at it, That's just not how DC and 298 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: politics works. 299 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: It's just not well, which is why when King George 300 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: the Third found out that George Washington was resigning his 301 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: commission and was not going to be a king, he said, 302 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: if that's true, he's the greatest man of this or 303 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: any age. Walking away from power is not something that 304 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: happens very often. And the president is making a decision, 305 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: and it is Trump versus Biden in a very close 306 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: race two hundred and four days out. Let me ask 307 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: you this question. I agree with you about the reality 308 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: of politics, but I think that one of the great 309 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: places to have seen every politician of the last generation 310 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: was sitting where you sat on the hardball set in Washington. 311 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: There's nobody during the heyday of that show who didn't 312 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: come through those doors. Yeah, who do you remember who 313 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: stands out? 314 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 3: Well, you know there's the celebrities, but then there are 315 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 3: the politicians. And I got to say my favorite guests 316 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 3: the one that stood out the most to me because 317 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 3: of my love for politics at such a young age 318 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: and you know, sort of fascination with John Kennedy and 319 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: the Kennedy assassination. Getting to spend a few minutes alone 320 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 3: with Clint Hill, his secret service agent. Well it was 321 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: missus Kennedy's secret service agent who jumped. 322 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: On the roof of the car. 323 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: And you know, there's the image from the Supruder film 324 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: that shows Jackie Kennedy. I always thought reaching for her agent, 325 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 3: but she was not. And he told me this, and 326 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 3: I think I had to go back and sort of 327 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 3: see it for myself. 328 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: But she wasn't reaching for him. 329 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 3: You know, she was reaching for the president's brain matter 330 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 3: that instantly departed his body when when that final shot 331 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 3: rang out. And if you watch the big go back 332 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 3: and watch the video, she doesn't look for Clint Hill. 333 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 3: She is she reacts instantaneously to just trying to piece together, 334 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 3: and he'd been somebody I had wanted to meet my 335 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 3: entire life, and because he was there, he was at 336 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 3: ground zero, and he's a fascinating man, and I, you know, 337 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: I thought about it a lot as I was working 338 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: for doctor Biden and in the Secret Service bubble and 339 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,239 Speaker 3: have a lot of respect for the Secret Service and 340 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 3: what they do, and so he was one of my 341 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 3: the most memorable guests. I would say, but you know, 342 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 3: there was always like fun actors to me. But I'm 343 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: a political junkie, so I definitely enjoyed meeting the politicians. 344 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 3: And I would say when when Newt came on for 345 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 3: the first time, you know, Newton him had a really 346 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 3: tough relationship, and so when he came we brought him. 347 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: Newton is obsessed with like zoo animals and elephants, so 348 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 3: we got him a cake with with an elephant on 349 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 3: it when he came into Hardball on set to be 350 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 3: on set with Chris, because you know that that relationship 351 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: dates back to when Chris was a staffer for just 352 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 3: Tip O'Neil. Newt was really the sort of a turning 353 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 3: point in American politics. I don't know how you feel 354 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: the former Republican I think going back to the c 355 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 3: SPAN fight bringing cameras into the House and then the 356 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 3: was it the Bloody eighth the Indiana Indiana race that 357 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 3: you know, Republicans felt it was kind of like the 358 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 3: Republicans last straw where they were taking off the gloves 359 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 3: and politics changed after that. 360 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think about, you know, this moment where 361 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: Trump's criminal trial is starting in Manhattan, really at the edge, 362 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: right the death of OJ Simpson, and I think about 363 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: it really like almost like full circle, right, I mean, 364 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: if you think about the profound effect that that OJ 365 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: Simpson trial had on reshaping the American media, even right, 366 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: Greta van Sustrain today, right, the full arc of the journey, right, 367 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: you know, doing the Newsmax hustle and the twighlight of 368 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: the career that started in the OJ Simpson trial, all 369 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: the way full circle. Here we are in this era 370 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: of I don't know what Donald Trump is starting a 371 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: criminal trial in Manhattan for payments regarding horn Star hush 372 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: money payments, business records, broadcase, serious matter, one of four trials, 373 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: the only one that will take place before the election. 374 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: And we're on the edge of World War three literally globally. 375 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: So it's this remarkable moment in American politics. A new 376 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: Gingrich is an architect, a founding father of it. If 377 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: there were ever to be a place where Sebastian Gorka 378 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: was carved in paper machet into a replica of Mount Rushmore, 379 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: of Freak Showery, of the Star Wars bar scene, of 380 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: the Menagerie, of all of this Trump DETRITI is in 381 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: this moment, right, I mean, Gingrich is in the middle 382 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: of the is in the middle of the statue. He's 383 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: in the middle of the picture. He's the godfather of all. Yeah. 384 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 3: And sometimes I don't know if it was a brilliant 385 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 3: evolution and turning point or just horribly destructive, but putting 386 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: the cameras you know, in the house and then televising 387 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 3: one minutes so that people at home were thinking, these 388 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: people giving these passionate speeches, were you know, delivering you know, 389 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 3: oratory to a room full of hundreds of other members 390 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 3: when it was really could be just them in the 391 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 3: well of the house. You know, it was was interesting. 392 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 3: I don't know if I don't want to say revolutionary, 393 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 3: but like it was a turning point for political communication 394 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 3: and how politicians communicate, but also how the media communicates 395 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: and the press reports on what's happening in Congress, and 396 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 3: you know, it led to a lot of destructive things. 397 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 3: I mean, some good for Democrats, some bad Democrats. I mean, no, Clinton, 398 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 3: I think sort of learned the lessons from Gary Hart 399 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 3: in terms of what was in play and was ready 400 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: for it. And Gary Hart, you know, you probably remember 401 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 3: his famous words, how the media has turned titians into 402 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: the hunted and the press into hunters. Now, you know, 403 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 3: I would say he sort of misjudged his own vulnerabilities. 404 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,719 Speaker 3: And certainly, complaining and whining about the press is an 405 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: age old concept, but it doesn't get you what you need. 406 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 3: And Bill Clinton was ready and was able to deal 407 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 3: with his own vulnerabilities. And you know, it was pretty 408 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: gutsy to go, you know, to knowing what he to 409 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 3: do what he did, and even if he was lying, 410 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 3: you know, decided to go full force on sixty minutes, 411 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 3: the most watched show still the most watched television broadcast 412 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: news show on the night of the Super Bowl, when 413 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 3: everybody is watching, with your wife and speak to your 414 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: vulnerabilities and address them and confront them head on. 415 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: And it worked. It worked. 416 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: And I think people appreciate people politicians who acknowledge their 417 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 3: own vulnerabilities, and you're rewarded for that. 418 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: Okay, up right there, because I think that's a great 419 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: inflection point. So the President I've written, I've been clear. 420 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm somebody who thinks that he made a pretty clear commitment. 421 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 1: I think that he would have claim to be among, 422 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: if not the finest, one of the two finest one 423 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: term presidents in the nation's history. And I wished that 424 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: he was unburdened from politics in this very dangerous moment. 425 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: That being said, I support him fully, completely and absolutely, 426 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: and I am part of a cohort that I think 427 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: is large and that I think the White House has 428 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: to contend with. Which is the grumpy Biden voter. I 429 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: don't want to be told that he's FDR. I'm not 430 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: thrilled with the choice at hand, along with eighty five 431 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: percent of the country, right, but that being the choice, 432 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: it is the choice. Now talk about the election. What 433 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: is driving something that to me is so intuitively and 434 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: obviously wrong headed, This idea that I'm running, But I'm 435 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: going to do it in a way where I'm invisible, 436 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: where I'm not out Very often very much, and where 437 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: every appearance is therefore heightened into an existential event. What's 438 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: going on there. It's like watching a football team that 439 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: repeatedly punts on second down. 440 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 3: I joined the Biden campaign. Well, first of all, I 441 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 3: would I would say a lot of my perspective on 442 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 3: how you approach the media, how politicians approach it, how 443 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 3: private sector approaches it. It is rooted in the fact 444 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 3: that I was a TV producer for seven years and 445 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 3: I was there at the moment of transition, and I 446 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 3: lived through that transition, the what I call twenty fifteen 447 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 3: the post you know, Trump media environment, because it really 448 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 3: did change what the threshold for news would become. Remember 449 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 3: tweets were now news and we're now full screens and 450 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 3: calling into Sunday shows. I mean, he changed the rules 451 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 3: and the media allowed him to. 452 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 2: We allowed him to. 453 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 3: I say that because I was I was there, and 454 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 3: I was trying to book him all the time from 455 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 3: my boss. So when I walked into the Biden campaign, 456 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 3: I had a frame of reference and I had a 457 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 3: lot of opinions on of course, on what I thought 458 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: Biden should be doing, because I think Biden's best advocate. 459 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 3: But you know, my role was to stay in the 460 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 3: other lane. And I'll never forget this, Dve. We were 461 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 3: three days out from the Iowa Caucuses and it was January, 462 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 3: the end of January, I think, I think it was 463 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 3: like January thirtieth or something like that. On a Friday, 464 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 3: and I was we were in the car. We were 465 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 3: in west eastern Iowa. Met Jill and her chiefest staff 466 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 3: and I was reading through the list of folks doing 467 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 3: the Sunday shows in the Democratic primary. 468 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: And she turned and said, why doesn't. 469 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: Joe do the Sunday shows? And if you think about it, 470 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: you think you're are you from Delaware? 471 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: Steve? You you know, you know you fague? Okay? 472 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: But you know Joe Biden to school in Delaware, right, Yeah, 473 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 3: you went to school with the Biden's on the monitor. 474 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 3: But you know that he's been doing Sunday shows his 475 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 3: entire life. He was doing a Sunday show when his 476 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 3: house was burning down. He was doing Meet the Prescipal 477 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 3: in his house burning down in Wilmington. And when she 478 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 3: asked me that, I had no good answer. Why the 479 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 3: when the stakes were so high for his own career 480 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 3: four days out from the niococcuses that he had not 481 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 3: done a single Sunday show in the entire year he'd 482 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 3: been running for president. It was stunning. You know, three 483 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 3: days later, the caucus has happened. The next Sunday, he 484 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 3: was certainly booked on a Sunday on his first Sunday 485 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 3: show appearance. And I tell you that story only because 486 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 3: I think there is a knee jerk reaction and an impulse. 487 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: And and I love a lot of the people that 488 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 3: I worked with, and I respect them. 489 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 2: You know, I come from it. 490 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 3: I came in as an outsider into a very layered 491 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: and very insular world because these people have been around 492 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: for decades. And I didn't work in the Obama White 493 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 3: House or the Vice President's I wasn't a bid in person. 494 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 3: And so people resent it that somebody from not only 495 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 3: the outside was coming in, but somebody from media was 496 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: coming in to who had these relationships with reporters and 497 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 3: journalists covering the campaign. And you know, they didn't They 498 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 3: didn't like that, And my approach was different. Now, Jill 499 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 3: died Fox News, Jilt, Jill died CNN gilded interviews all 500 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: the time. But you know, I noticed, Steve, that there 501 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 3: is a knee jerk reaction and an instinct to constantly protect. 502 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 3: And that is why I think. 503 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: That protect from what what are they protecting from? 504 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: Question? 505 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 3: I mean like it goes back. Some people have brought 506 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 3: up the fact that are that do they not trust 507 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 3: their own candidate? Do they not trust their own principle? 508 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: I don't know if that was it. 509 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: Let me let me ask, let me almost like a 510 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: kind of a role playing space. Right, I've been in 511 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: a lot of political meetings, am I in my day? 512 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 3: Right? 513 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: Well, you understand what I'm. 514 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: Getting and so right, so I'm picturing a meeting or 515 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: the type of conversation to take place as you're rolling along, right, 516 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: and you're almost always rolling along right, you're driving, you're 517 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: flying right, you're here there, right, You're in a state 518 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: of movement. And my question would be, it'll follow up 519 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: to this idea of protection. Yeah, don't you understand that 520 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: with the protection you're offering, you're making him seem disabled, 521 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: that he's that he's not up for this. And so 522 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: does somebody say that at the table or is that 523 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: team so DC so ansler so cloistered that they just 524 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: won't have won't hear it? That they don't for whatever 525 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: reason grasp that that outside of the Beltway. The downrange 526 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: consequence of that is that he seems unsteady and unable. 527 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know Marine Doud, who has a very 528 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 3: complicated history with with Biden going back to eighty seven. 529 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: You know, she wrote about this at length back in September, 530 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 3: and it was go with the flow, Joe, And it 531 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 3: wasn't really about him, but it was about the people 532 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: around him who are vetting question Uestians in the media, 533 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 3: or limiting his talk time, or or making him enter 534 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: and exit through the belly of the airplane. You know, Steve, 535 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 3: he was leaving for Israel on his Israel trip and 536 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 3: the last image the world had of him was him 537 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 3: trying to salute, to wave goodbye, and his head his 538 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 3: head was partly cut off because he was in the 539 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 3: belly of the airplane. 540 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 2: So you're not only losing the symbolism of and the. 541 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 3: Majesty of of of Air Force one walking up to 542 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 3: the top and turning around, but he can't face the cameras. 543 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: I don't mean to put you on the on the 544 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: on the spot here. Could the president not make it 545 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: up the stairs, the main stairs on the presidential aircraft? 546 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 2: Of course he can and I know he can, but 547 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: it goes back to that. 548 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: So why why, why, why why isn't he right? Because 549 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: it seems to me that what Joe Biden has in 550 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: age is trust. I trust in a in a moment 551 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: of real grave danger, right, And I understand there's a 552 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: there's a big opposition, But the decision to cloister him, Yeah, 553 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: where does that come from? 554 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 3: What I bounced you from from? Just from from being 555 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 3: there was it was a an impulse to protect, to prevent, 556 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 3: almost like a preventative measure. Yeah, there's a fear of 557 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 3: taking ownership and responsibility. It's just like, you know, people 558 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 3: want these I want to implement strategies, but they're kind 559 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 3: of scared to take risks because they're so scared about 560 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: what the downside could be. And I think that fundamentally 561 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 3: misjudges the media because the new cycle changes so fast. 562 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes I'm not trying to throw them 563 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 3: under the buzz or or be critical, but I I 564 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 3: feel fe like the things that they think our media 565 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 3: stories are no longer media stories these days. 566 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: Even if he. 567 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 3: Slips and falls or whatever, there's too much other stuff 568 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 3: moving at a very fast pace in the media that 569 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 3: are just not not media stories anymore. 570 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: And so these are the easy things that I think that. 571 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: You know, they've they've really, you know, done a disservice 572 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 3: to him for it. 573 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: I think looking ahead, I see an issue coming down 574 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: to tracks, and that's this question over debates about whether 575 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: these two are going to debate. And I see this 576 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: conversation playing out in Washington, right. It's inconceivable to me 577 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: that the American people in an age where they get 578 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: a vote on everything. We pick our pop stores now 579 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: on a towel vision approach, rare people call in and vote, 580 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: and that wasn't the case when I was I was 581 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: growing up, right, that they're not going to see a debate, 582 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: that they're not going to see the heavyweight match, that 583 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: they're not going to see the confrontation Mono Amano of 584 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: these two men for the most powerful office in the 585 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: world in front of the nation. In my career, I've 586 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: heard a lot of conventional wisdom that I that I 587 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: think is off. Some of it I think has been deranged. 588 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: I can't think of another premise that I find more 589 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: completely ludicrous than the notion that seems to exist in 590 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: some places around the around around the President that he's 591 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: above debating Donald Trump. And I think to myself, is 592 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: it possible that there are actually people around by I 593 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: didn't close in right that are that are behind these 594 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: blind quotes suggesting that he's not going to debate Donald 595 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: Trump and face this man monoa monolide I in front 596 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: of the country. 597 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 3: I just gonna say, I have no idea, but I 598 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: can tell you Joe Biden, if this debate is held. 599 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 2: In Moscow, Joe Biden should be debating. Joe Biden needs 600 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 2: these debates. 601 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 3: His only his biggest his only vulnerability is presentation and competency. 602 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 3: You know, you know the age issue. He was great 603 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 3: at the State of the Union. But he needs he 604 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 3: needs this. He needs this debate. And whether there's one 605 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 3: or or two or whatever, Joe Biden needs these debates. 606 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 3: So I have no idea. If that's it, I I 607 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 3: can't as a political observer my entire life, I can't 608 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 3: imagine that there was any way any strategy that said 609 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 3: that that says this is good for you that I 610 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 3: just I don't believe it myself. You know a lot 611 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 3: of people were remember there were questions over whether this 612 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 3: is not the same thing. Obviously, but people were questioning 613 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 3: whether Fetterman should debate. 614 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 2: I thought he had to. 615 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 3: I thought, anytime you are not confronting your opponent, no 616 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 3: matter your vulnerabilities, if you don't confront your opponent, you're 617 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 3: gonna lose. And I thought, you know, Fetterman, his performance 618 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 3: was you know, was startling to some people. I think 619 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 3: the story would have been much worse if he had 620 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 3: backed out of his only debate with his with his opponent. 621 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: And I think that's the case here, Steve, and you 622 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 3: tell me if I'm wrong. But I think Biden will 623 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 3: be blamed if they don't debate, because for as much 624 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 3: as he as he lies Donald Trump, and in every 625 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 3: breath he takes, he's the performer and he knows how 626 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 3: to entertain, but he also knows how to perform. If 627 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 3: the President can't match his perform dormans, he doesn't appear 628 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 3: on a debate stage, he will get blamed for that. 629 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 3: I think that's that's my opinion. That it's just a 630 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 3: good opinion that backed up by Fox. But I think 631 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 3: he needs these debates more more than Trump needs these debates. 632 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 3: And Trump wasn't that great of a debater to begin. 633 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: One refreshing to hear Michael Rosa, thank you so much 634 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: for your time, and thank you all for watching this 635 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: edition of The Warning. Thank you for listening to my 636 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: political commentary. If you like what you heard today, please 637 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: also consider subscribing to The Warning daily newsletter on substack