1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians. We are coming to you semi live 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: along the road in a very exciting place. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: Live Ish, coming to you Live Ish from Doha Guitar 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: at Web Summit Quitar. We've had a wonderful experience in 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 2: a part of the world that I believe neither of 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: us had visited prior to this. 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Everyone's been very kind. 8 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 2: We've been part of some presentations here with some incredible 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: iHeart folks, kind of helping creators in this part of 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: the world learn about this wonderful thing we call podcasting. 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: Yes, and we are joined in the studio today with 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: none other than our super guest producer, the man who's 13 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: making all of this possible podcast Wise, Matt the Madman Stillo, 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: Matt double Bird. Still up, Yeah, Matt. Do you have 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: any siblings that you know? 16 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: Of what fraternal or. 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Not quite as cool? But still do you guys get along? Yeah? 18 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: Are you into shoes? Like, do you wear shoes? 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: All? 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 3: Right? 21 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: Do you ever dress an identical tracksuits? Okay, that would 22 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: be that's a little too close. Only the identicals do 23 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: that kind of thing, right, okay, right, and only for 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: you know, film appearance. Now, it's a bizarre though I 25 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: got to say, every set of identical twists I've ever known, 26 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: they dressed the same. I feel something that they just 27 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: have done since childhood. I feel like it's not on 28 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: purpose for a lot of them, parallel thinking and they 29 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: have the vibes. Dang, I also like a blue sweater. 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: We're asking this. 31 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: I'm so glad this because our classic episode today while 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: we're on the road is indeed a tale of two 33 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: brothers and a tale of shoes, and a tale of 34 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: two cities, and a tale of two cities divided by ideology, 35 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: branding and a river. And I know I sort of 36 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: decision tried you into that question, do you guys wear shoes? 37 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: So most of the time was his response. If you 38 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: had to choose one, Noel, would you choose Puma or Adidas? 39 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: Funny you should ask that ben. 40 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: Adidas is a lot more less Sorry, I'm being such 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: a small geman boy when I pronounced that one A 42 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: lot more common. 43 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: In the States. 44 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: You see it Adida stores a lot more frequently. But 45 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: recently I went to an outlet mall situation in one 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: of the bit more far away suburbs of Atlanta, and 47 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: they have a Puma store, and I purchased an entire 48 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: Puma track suit and several pairs of Puma shoes, but 49 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 2: I wear it with my Adidas beanie. So it's sort 50 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: of a little controversial if you want to get into 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: today's topic. 52 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: Right yeah, yeah, like walking around comp to wearing blue 53 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: and red indeed, right, not fly, I mean it'll work 54 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: for me because I'm colored black. 55 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. 56 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you were getting some side eyes. Let's let's 57 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: look at it in a positive light and say, you're 58 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: building bridges, right indeed, and these bridges need to be 59 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: built because, as we'll learn in today's classic episode, Adidas 60 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: Adidas and there's a reason we're pronouncing it that way 61 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: sometimes and Puma are two of the world's most well 62 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: known sneaker brands today. Sport garb, active wear. Yes, yes, yeah, 63 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: you're fast walkies, that's true. 64 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: But also you know, they really both, honestly, probably Adidas 65 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: a little more, have developed a pretty significant place in 66 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: pop culture. 67 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: Like it's not just sportsmen that like. 68 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: To wear these, you know, hip hop enthusiasts, be boys, skaters. 69 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: Or fans of the band Porno the k all day 70 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: they dream about. Yes, and it may surprise some of 71 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: us to learn that there is a strange and bigger 72 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: origin story behind these two titans of the sneaker world. 73 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: We're gonna delve into a tale of family fuse, strange, contempt, 74 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: and brothers Divide it. 75 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: The story of the Dossler Brothers Adidas get It, Let's 76 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: roll it. 77 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, 78 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: Friends and neighbors, Thanks for tuning in. We have two 79 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: developments that we'd like to tell you about that occurred 80 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: outside of the studio only, one of which is tangentially 81 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: related to today's episode. First is that it is my 82 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: trustee co host Noel Brown's birthday today. 83 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: I'm sorry I was runing in place birthday resolution with 84 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: my new Adidas track. 85 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: Shoes, right yeah, oh so, happy birthday, Noel. I'm Ben. 86 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: Let's hello to our super producer, Casey Pegram. And the 87 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: second development, which is I guess at best tangentially related 88 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: to today's episode, is that, for the first time in years, 89 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: I bought a pair of tennis shoes. 90 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: You sure did, and Ben, thank you for the birthday wishes. 91 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: I was. The endorphins were flowing through me so much 92 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: I didn't even respond politely, and I do apologize. Let's 93 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: talk about your shoes. Yours are tigers though, right. 94 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: Right, right, Lions and tigers and Bears, Pumas and Adididas. Yes, yes, 95 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: that is the tangential relationship today. So one of the 96 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: most well known popular tennis shoe brands is Nike today, right, 97 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: very true, very very true, just do it. But other 98 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: brands are still in the international sphere and very very 99 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: well known, like Adidas and Pumas. 100 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: That's right, And I don't know, we can just spoil 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: this part of the story in advance. Nike kind of 102 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 2: blew up as a result of Adidas and Puma's kind 103 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: of being distracted with sort of the topic of today's 104 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: episode and not really paying attention to this impending shoe 105 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: mcgeddon that Nike brought on. 106 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, because well, like, have you ever owned 107 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: a pair of Adidas or a Puma shoe? 108 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: I have an Adidas hoodie that I'm quite fond of, 109 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: and I think I've owned a Puma a pair of 110 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: Puma shoe. Don't think I've ever owned any Adidas shoes, 111 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: but fan of the hoodies. 112 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: I think I've only owned a track suit from Adidas 113 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: it was a different life. I could never I could 114 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: not pay sure it was it was for a show. 115 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: It was unrelated, okay, for a show, that's fair. 116 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: But I haven't owned the shoes either, which is, you know, 117 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: not super unusual for us, because neither of us are 118 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: especially sneaker heads, as they're called. But but they are 119 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: very very popular shoes and they have a very strange 120 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: story behind them. I guess to start off today, we 121 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: should go ahead and just be upfront about the pronunciation 122 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: of the name of this town. 123 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 2: Should we have a pronunciation off and then we can 124 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: check four voh and see who was closest. 125 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: So you're using four voh, right, that's right? That's right. 126 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: Is that your go to pronunciation guide of choice? 127 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: It is because it's crowdsourced and it's usually from natives, 128 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: so I find it to be pretty reliable. And if 129 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: they're if the word isn't there, then I just you know, 130 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: roll the dice. But this one, in fact, was there. 131 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: So let's how about we spell it first so everyone 132 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: knows where we're coming from. It's h E r z 133 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: O G E N A U r A c H. 134 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: So uh, let's see would that be? Here's g HER's 135 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: o ganda. Why do you give you a shut? 136 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: Well man, I may have told you that in a 137 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: past life, I was once a young German boy. 138 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: That's true. I would defer to your pronunciation. 139 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: So I'm gonna give it a go with the help 140 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: of four voh and then I'll check check myself. 141 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 3: Hatzolganala, Hatzolganaha, got close close. I think I over pronounced 142 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 3: the gen the again, so they're more like hats olganah. 143 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, gn kind of like just. 144 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 4: Right. 145 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: So you know, this is let's call it, what do 146 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: we say, ben hartze Hertzel. That's what the locals call it. 147 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: It's going to be easier, so Hertso it has a 148 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: storied sneaker past. 149 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, our story begins with the Dostler brothers, Rudolph 150 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: and Adolph. But Rudy and ADDI to their friends right 151 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: and to us and to us for the purposes of this. 152 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: So Audi is the younger brother. He's a cobbler, he's 153 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: an inventor, he's a bit of an entrepreneur. His favorite 154 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: thing in the world is to sit at his work 155 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: bench and tinker. And he starts making shoes. 156 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: So I thought I thought a shoemaker was a cobbler. 157 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: It was a Tinker's a tinker as a thing too. 158 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: There's tinker Taylor Soldier Spine in that movie What's a Tinker? 159 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: So you could tinker with things, but the old profession 160 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: is someone who travels from place to place mending things 161 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: like pots and pants. 162 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: Right, So he is a tinker and a cobbler. I 163 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: would say he's a tinkerer. Yeah, so he's a tinkering 164 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: cobbler and he's cobbling at his tinker bench and what 165 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: does he make? Ben There's a little bit of more 166 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: of a story here too. This was after World War One. 167 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: Things were pretty dire in Germany Bavaria, where hertzel Is located, 168 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: and the brother's mother had had a laundry business that 169 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 2: was no longer operational. 170 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: And so that's where Audy set up his shop. He 171 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: was eighteen years old when he returned from World War 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: One in nineteen eighteen, and Harze is in northern Bavaria. 173 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: Oddly enough to shoemaking was the biggest industry in the 174 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: area at the time, so it was a natural fit 175 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: for him to go into this empty laundry shed and 176 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: begin making shoes. 177 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: Right there's a great, great article that we're gonna pull 178 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: some good stuff from from Vice Sports by Brian Blickenstaff 179 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: that sort of mentions the idea that even in those 180 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: kind of salad days post World War One, when folks 181 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: were returning back home and things were kind of a 182 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: little bit getting by by hook er by crook, you 183 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 2: might not have to buy the nicest clothes, but you 184 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: had to have functional. 185 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: Shoes, right, You gotta have shoes. And there's an excellent 186 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: article depicting his experience making his first pair of shoes 187 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: over on Today I found out folks. You may notice 188 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: we're avoiding giving you the headlines of these articles right now. 189 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: That's because we don't want to spoil things straight from 190 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: the gate. So he makes his first shoes for just 191 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: for his friends. But these shoes that he creates are 192 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: made out of leather scraps salvaged from helmets and wartime 193 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: uniforms another gear. Yeah, he's're like mad Max shoes. Yeah, 194 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: that's a good description. And out people really liked Audi's shoes. 195 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: His reputation spread far beyond herzel, and pretty soon he 196 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: had one of the best problems you can have when 197 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: you start your own business. He had more work than 198 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: he could handle. 199 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it took him about three years to 200 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: get to that point. And that's when he enlisted the 201 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: help of his brother, Rudy, who was a little bit 202 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: more of a business minded kind of guy, a bit 203 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: of a brash kind of salesman type dude. And he 204 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: really needed that because Addi was sort of the brains 205 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 2: behind the product, and Rudy came in and became the 206 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: power behind the throne, the kind of guy that pushed 207 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: the product out into the marketplace a bit. 208 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen twenty three, Rudy joins, and we must emphasize 209 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: just how different these two guys are. Addi sounds to 210 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: me like an introvert and Rudy definitely seems like the extrovert. 211 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: And this worked in the beginning. This was a fantastic partnership. 212 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean, they had already grown up together, so they 213 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 1: knew what to expect, and they worked pretty well in 214 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: the early days. And in nineteen twenty four, things were 215 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: going well enough that they said, you know what, let's 216 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: make it official, bro, let's start a company. 217 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. They're called the Dossler Bros. Or Gbruder Dossler. 218 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: The Dossler Brothers shoe company and they continue growing, so 219 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: I believe it's in nineteen twenty six they say, Okay, 220 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: this laundry shed operation isn't cutting it. We need an 221 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: actual factory's right. Oh, we shall also mentioned before we 222 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: get too far into the story. After World War One, 223 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: Rudy had decided he wanted to become a policeman and 224 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: he actually he trained. 225 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: For it like a Gestapo type policeman. 226 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: Interesting that you would mention that part that is going 227 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: to come into play later, because yes, this is Germany 228 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen twenties at this time. 229 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: Ah, yes, ah, yes, So where where should we go next? 230 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: We're still in Harzo, right we are. We're gonna We're 231 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: gonna mainly stay there. 232 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, toward the end we might expand a little, 233 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: but yes, this is a Harzo story through it through. 234 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: Uh. 235 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: Do you want to talk a little bit about what 236 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: these shoes look like and how they differ from modern shoes? Yeah? 237 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: I think we really should. There is a really cool 238 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: blog post on a site called design Boom called history 239 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: of Adida's Audi Dossler's first Track and Field Shoes, and 240 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 2: it goes through a chronology of these designs between the 241 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 2: twenties and the thirties. The very first shoe, called the 242 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: Model Weitzer from nineteen twenty eight was a sprint shoe 243 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 2: and it was actually worn at the Olympic Games in 244 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: Amsterdam of that year. And it looks almost like a rudimentary, 245 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 2: kind of very stark ballet shoe mixed with like a 246 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: bowling shoe. But it's very very steeply angled from the 247 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: heel to like where the ball of the foot might be, 248 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: and then it flattens out and then has these cleats, 249 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 2: these six six stikes pronounced almost like crocodile teeth looking cleats. 250 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: And this was kind of a revolutionary design because according 251 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: to this blog, it was the first shoe to use 252 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: a screw system in athletics, which were six handmade spikes 253 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: that were cut pressed through these holes that were punched 254 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: in the outsole of the shoe and then were screwed 255 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: in using a steel disc that attaches from the outsole 256 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: the outside of the shoe. And there were some positives 257 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: here and that it gave runners traction that they had 258 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: lacked in the past, but it also they were a 259 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,479 Speaker 2: little bit heavy because there were a lot of weighty metal. 260 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: Parts, right, and they were not manufacturing the actual spikes themselves. 261 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: They did have help from a blacksmith operation, but the 262 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: rest of it, sourcing the material and assembling it, that's 263 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: all Dostler, And it's true. This stuff is revolutionary p 264 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: people are loving it. We do need to mention that 265 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party come to power in 266 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: what around thirty three, nineteen thirty three, and when this happens, 267 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: both of the Dossler brothers do join the Nazi Party. 268 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: That's true. 269 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: They have been described, to their credit, I guess, as 270 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: not being the most adamant Nazis. I guess they were 271 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: sort of low key Nazis. 272 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah they were not. I guess they were fair weather Nazis. 273 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 274 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: It seemed like they were just doing it because they 275 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: were fitting in maybe, yeah, which is a huge problem. 276 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: It's a huge problem with the whole Nazi plague in general. 277 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: It's like I was just following orders. I was just 278 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: trying to fit in. That's not a discussion for today's episode. 279 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: But all the while, they they're blending into the background 280 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: while making these shoes, and it kind of comes to 281 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: a head when one of their designs worn by a 282 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: very famous African American sprinter by the name of James 283 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: Cleveland Owens aka Jesse Owens, who wore these shoes and 284 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: a very specific sporting event that we have talked about 285 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: in episodes past. 286 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: Yes, we were referring to the nineteen thirty six Summer Olympics, 287 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: which were held in Berlin. If you've checked out our 288 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: earlier episode, then you noticed that Jesse Owens is a 289 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: returning guest to our show. Jesse Owens was a track 290 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and field star, and given that the Dossler brothers were 291 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: already benefiting from the Nazi Party's use of sports as 292 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: a propaganda tool, they saw the Summer Olympics as an 293 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: opportunity to go into the international sphere and get recognition 294 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: outside of Herzel and outside of Germany. So they pushed 295 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: and pushed to get Dossler shoes on Jesse Owens. All 296 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: they really seemed to care about in the Olympics, in fact, 297 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: was getting Jesse Owens to wear these shoes. He did 298 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: wear Dostler shoes and he won four gold medals, which, again, 299 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: if you look at the way these shoes are constructed, 300 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: is crazy because you're not supposed to use your heel. 301 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: You're just supposed to like dig in and run on 302 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: your toes and the plan worked. Owens four medals gave 303 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: the company huge amounts of international attention, and athletes from 304 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: all across Europe started making their way to this village Harzol, 305 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: which is pretty tiny, whenever they passed through Germany, saying 306 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: I gotta get a pair of one of those Dossler 307 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,479 Speaker 1: Brothers shoes. 308 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and from that original design we talked about from 309 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty eight, this one was much improved because it 310 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 2: actually left out the metal plate and it had very 311 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: small eyelets where the and thin laces, which helped to 312 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: reduce the weight of the shoe, which was really important 313 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: for you know, sprinting. Absolutely in fact, instead of they 314 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: had to get really creative with materials because instead of 315 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: using that metal plate, they used something called vegetable tanned 316 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: bottom leather or vash leather, and that significantly reduced the weight. 317 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: So really forward thinking design work going into these shoes 318 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: that continued to carry on specifically with Audi. Yeah. 319 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: I look again, as we're gonna see, neither of these 320 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: guys are perfect, but all these innovations in the world 321 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: of footwear are Audi's I want to highlight that because 322 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: I feel like that's very important that Audi was the 323 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: brains of the operation. Well, at this point, their success 324 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: is bringing them to a more money, more problems sort 325 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: of situation. Their relationship is becoming strained, and as the 326 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: company is succeeding, Germany is inching closer to war and 327 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: the brothers are experiencing a failure in their relationship. One 328 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: that a huge, huge animosity that extends to their wives, 329 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: their children, their parents, their other siblings because they did 330 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: have other siblings. 331 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and weirdly, both families lived together in the same villa, 332 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: which seemed less than ideal considering that every source we've 333 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: looked into has their wives just fighting like cats and 334 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 2: dogs between each other. 335 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: They were not peacemakers, not at all. 336 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 2: And I'm sure that tension carried over into the brother's relationship. 337 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: When you're trying to defend your wife in some sort 338 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 2: of spat and take take their side, it probably soured 339 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 2: relations between the brothers. 340 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: And let's not forget moms in the picture too. Yeah. Right, 341 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: So in nineteen forty, Oddie gets the call. He is 342 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: asked to serve in the German military, and he does 343 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: for about three months. But somehow he is able to 344 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: get an exemption. And you'll hear different history and speculate 345 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: that this could have been due to Rudy's to maybe 346 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: back in Herzel. He was pulling some strings to get 347 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: his brother out to go back to the shoe business. 348 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: And we'll probably never know for sure whether he was 349 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: able to get that exemption due to Rudy, but we 350 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: do know that whatever happened, it did not alleviate the 351 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: tension between the families. As the war kicked in to 352 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: full swing, the tensions between the families got worse and 353 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: worse until they hit a tipping point. 354 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of the most divisive bits of 355 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: the story. There are various accounts of this, but it 356 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: is something that comes up repeatedly, and so supposedly, in 357 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 2: nineteen forty three, when there was an Allied air raid 358 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 2: on Hertze, the brothers and their families found themselves sharing 359 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 2: a bomb shelter, and supposedly Adolph made a comment that 360 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: Rudy was never able to shake because he interpreted as 361 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: being a direct insult to his family. So, as the 362 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: story goes, Adolph and hearing the sound of the approaching 363 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 2: RAF forces Royal Air Force British planes said something to 364 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: the effect of there come those pig dogs again, or 365 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 2: here come those bastards or the dirty bastards Basterds are 366 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 2: back again, exactly to which Rudy heard that as an insult, 367 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 2: lobbed at he and his family as they got into 368 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 2: the shelter. 369 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: And this was either a misunderstanding or a grudge that 370 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: both brothers would carry throughout their lives and refuse to reconcile. 371 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: Later that year, this is nineteen forty three, Rudy himself 372 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: gets called up for military service, and at this point 373 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: he suspects that Audie had schemed to get him sent 374 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: to the front to edge him out of the business, 375 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: and he serves from nineteen forty three to nineteen forty five. 376 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty five, Rudy deserts his post in Poland. 377 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: He flees just ahead of the oncoming Russian army and 378 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: he goes back to Harrisol. He hurriedly gets a friend 379 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: of his who is a doctor to declare him unfit 380 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: for military service due to a frozen foot. But then 381 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: the story frozen foot, Yeah, frozen foot, is that like 382 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: a twisted ankle kind of it's you know, what he 383 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: was in a hurry? 384 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 2: Is that like bone spurs? 385 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just something to make you unable to walk, 386 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: I see. And so this doesn't pass muster with the Gestapo. 387 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: They arrest Rudy Dostler for desertion and he blames that 388 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: on Audi too. But here's the thing. We don't know 389 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: whether Adolph Dostler got his brother purposely sent into military service, 390 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: but we do have pretty compelling circumstance reports that both 391 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: Audie and his wife snitched on him. 392 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I see referenced in several places, one of which 393 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: is in a Fortune magazine article called the Hatred and 394 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 2: Bitterness behind two of the world's most popular brands by 395 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: Omar Oktar to an American investigative report that was found 396 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 2: and that's in Fortune, right, Yes, that's in Fortune. 397 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: And so he's arrested first for desserting his posts by 398 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: the Gestapo, and then when he's released by the Gestapo, 399 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: he's arrested by the Allies on suspicion of working for 400 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: the Gestapo. And that American investigative report that you mentioned, 401 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: Noel does give truth to his claims. And while he 402 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: was languishing wasting away in a pow camp. Adolph Osler 403 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: is very hard at work. He is rebuilding the business 404 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: and he is making a killing selling shoes, selling quote 405 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: unquote Jesse shoes to American soldiers who all know about 406 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: the legendary Summer Olympics and all want to have the shoes. 407 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: And it feels to me this is a speculating But 408 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 2: tell me if you think this is true, man, that 409 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 2: this is a really early example of this kind of 410 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: endorsement culture in sporting goods and wear and any kind 411 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: of apparel. 412 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: Right. 413 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: I really do feel like this is kind of the 414 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 2: model setter for that whole thing, and this is something 415 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 2: that the company would continue to lean heavily into and 416 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: it would become another sore spot between the brothers as 417 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 2: time went on. 418 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: Absolutely, we should also point out I couldn't find anything 419 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: about Jesse Owens getting any percentage of sales, So I 420 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: think that was a I think that was a rough 421 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: spot for him because he could have made millions. 422 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: Well, it was a different time, right, I mean it 423 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 2: was like a cutting edge stuff. They were almost like, yeah, 424 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 2: just give me the shoes so I can perform better 425 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: because other companies weren't making anything that was quite up 426 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: to this level of innovation, right, right, So these. 427 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: Guys at first their personalities complementing one another. Then their 428 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: relationships became strained. Now they hate each other, They loathe 429 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: and a bore one another, and they can barely stand 430 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: each other's presence, which is weird because they still both 431 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: live in the same, very very small town. And we 432 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: see this hate in the historical record. So Rudy has 433 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: not taking this on the chin or turning the other cheek. 434 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: He retaliates against his brother in nineteen forty six when 435 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: Adolph Dossler is hauled before the deed Nazification Committee and 436 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: he could be classified as something called a bellestetter or 437 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: a profiteer, which means if he is proven to have 438 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: made a lot of profit or having broken financial laws 439 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: during wartime, he could have lost control of the entire 440 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: company of Dossler Brothers. And that meant, at least in 441 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: Rudy's mind, that he could be appointed to run the company. 442 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: He could maybe even cut out his brother entirely, which 443 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: is brutal when you consider Rudy didn't make the shoes. 444 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: This is this is very strange. So he tried to 445 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: paint Adolph Ostler in a terrible light trying to get 446 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: control of the company, but they still lived under the 447 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: same roof. 448 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was sort of like pointing the finger 449 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 2: right right it himself. And ultimately the Allies determined that 450 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 2: neither of the Dossler brothers were problematic enough Nazis to 451 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: really mess with. They had bigger and Nazi fish to fry. 452 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And the American occupation forces actually seized their villa. 453 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: So all these two families that hate each other are 454 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: living in makeshift accommodations in the shoe factor, so this 455 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: is funny. 456 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: In nineteen forty eight, they officially split the company up 457 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 2: and moved to opposite sides of the river that bisects 458 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: this tiny little hamlet in Bavaria. 459 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: The river Aurok. Yeah, and Audi names his company Adidas 460 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: Adi Das right, yeah, which is a portman toeau. Oh, 461 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: we were on dangerous ground there of his first and 462 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: last names. And Rudy tries to do something similar and 463 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: at first he calls his company Ruda. 464 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: Now to me, this is a big signpost of how 465 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 2: uncreative and kind of like ripoffye Rudy kind of was 466 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 2: that he immediately had to be like, oh, you're gonna 467 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 2: make a portmanteau for your company name. Well, I'm gonna 468 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: do the same thing, you know. And because Adidas is 469 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 2: clever and that's a good idea, and that sounds good. 470 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 2: It sounds good. But you know, he did see the 471 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 2: lights and whether he was counseled by some smart young 472 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 2: buck in marketing, he changed the name to the now 473 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: much more ubiquitous Puma, which couldn't imagine it Ruda. That 474 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 2: sounds that's hard, that's not even fun to say. 475 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: It sounds like years ago. I did an episode for 476 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: Car Stuff on Cars behind the Iron Curtain. Remember that 477 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: I was the producer of that show, the producer. That's true. Yeah, wow, 478 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: we go way back. But the thing is, Ruda sounds 479 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: like a kind of iron curtain car. 480 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 2: It also sounds like the prefix for like rudimentary. It 481 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 2: makes me think like they're kind of like crappy shoes. 482 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just sounds very plain, you know. 483 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 2: Puma. On the other hand, I picture a powerful, you know, 484 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 2: prowling beast with speed and precision and agility, something that 485 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 2: leaps and pounces. 486 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: Right. So, yes, correct decision on Rudy's part to shed 487 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: that name Ruda and go for something a little bit better. 488 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: And here's something interesting. We mentioned earlier that Harzo is 489 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: in an area of Germany it was known for shoemaking. Historically, 490 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: it was one of the primary industries of the area. 491 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: It's no surprise that shoe factories would take off here. 492 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: But eventually most of the town, if not all of 493 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: the town, ends up working for one of these two factories. 494 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: These guys still hate each other, by the way, oh, 495 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: with a venomous passion, and that passion extends this to me, 496 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: this was one of the weirdest parts. It extends to 497 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: the employees. 498 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: Oh man, No, it was. They created this whole hat 499 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: field in McCoy's kind of atmosphere in this little town 500 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: that was literally divided by that river we talked about. 501 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: I mean, there were restaurants, bars, grocery stores specifically designed 502 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: to just be for employees of one company or the other. 503 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: They were, I mean, I can't imagine it would have 504 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: been codified in any kind of real way, But there 505 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: was this unspoken idea that they never the twain shall meet, 506 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: there shall be no coupling between Poma and Adida's employees. 507 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: Including yeah, romantic pursuits. 508 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's yeah, exactly right, and certainly 509 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 2: marriage would have been hashtag for boat built in. 510 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's an interesting split in terms of the 511 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: internal workforce as well. So when the Dossler brothers split 512 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: the company up, the employees essentially had to choose. They 513 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: could go to Adidas or they could go to Puma. 514 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: Most of the technical people, like the actual cobblers, stayed 515 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: with Adidas. Most of the sales force and the admin 516 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: folks went with Puma, and it showed pretty quickly. 517 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: And man, making it even deeper bitterer family affair. Even 518 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: the mom had to pick sides. 519 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but who did she choose? 520 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 2: Think she went with the elder? 521 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? 522 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 2: Which is still crazy because Adis was the idea man. 523 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 2: He was the Willy Wonka of this whole operation. He 524 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: started it in her abandoned lawn. How could she forsake 525 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: her her young son like that, her bright young boy. 526 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think clearly we have chosen our horse in 527 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: this race. We don't want to be too biased, but 528 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: we do want to be transparent about that. Rudy seems 529 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: like the worst. I'm on tie Maudie all the way. 530 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: What about you? 531 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 4: Casey, I got a side with run DMC and corn 532 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 4: I'm going Adidas. It has been adjudicated Casey on the 533 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 4: case I love that segment. 534 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: Have you seen that shirt design that's floating around on 535 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: the face group? Yeah, and no spoilers, guys, but it's 536 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: happening and I think it's gonna have some French on it. 537 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: Check it out. Go to Ridiculous Historians our community page, 538 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: where you can see some A plus memes as well. 539 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: So let's let's pause for a second before before we 540 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: get into even more opprobrium. There is an interesting story 541 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: about how they make how they decide the iconic shoes right, 542 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: because clearly the Adidas or the Pumas you buy today 543 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: do not look like the shoes that Jesse Owens wore. 544 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: Oh no, well, like I said, I mean you see 545 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: on this amazing design blog, Design Boom, just the evolution 546 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 2: of these shoes. And even as far as it goes no, 547 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 2: it's cool. You actually when you still when it becomes Adidas. 548 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: Because this site is particularly devoted to ADDIE's designs, so 549 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 2: they've obviously chosen sides as well. You start to see 550 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 2: more of a fashion trend kind of coming into play. 551 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: The spikes are less pronounced. 552 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 2: Spikes are less pronounced, or color, there's more color they 553 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 2: have that like even in like sixty four, you have 554 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 2: the designs that use that kind of more Swede blue 555 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: swede look, and then they've got the little kind of 556 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 2: stripes along the side, much more traditional. Then you start 557 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: seeing those like iconic like gold colored ones. It's called 558 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: the Azteca Gold model. And that's as far as this 559 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 2: blog goes. But yeah, so it took like into the 560 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 2: sixties for them to really start getting that iconic look 561 00:32:58,800 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: that we know today from it. 562 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: Get And so we do have this story behind that 563 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: iconic three stripe arrangement on Adidas. So they had those 564 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: strips before in earlier versions of the shoe, but they 565 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: weren't really noticeable. They were the same color, like he says, 566 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: before the gold, before the blue and the white. So 567 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: Addi decided that the strips should be painted some other 568 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: color to make them look like stripes, and that this 569 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: would be the Adidas trademark. And so he made sample shoes, 570 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: some with two, some with three, some of four or 571 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: even as many as six stripes apiece. And then he 572 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: asked his wife and his sister in law to pick 573 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: which ones they liked best. They ended up saying that 574 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: four stripes is too many, it felt too busy, and 575 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: so on their advice, he went with the three stripe 576 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: design over at Puma. By the way, just to be fair, 577 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: Rudy had a couple of different depictions. He thought of 578 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: maybe having a Puma jumping through capital D, but eventually 579 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: he just settled on the company's signature horizontal stripe, which 580 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: they call a form stripe. 581 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 2: Man, man, you have just really expanded my sneaker head Oh. 582 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: No, oh, no, actual sneakerheads are listening to this. Yeah, 583 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: hopefully you find this of interest. 584 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 2: Hopefully, but really, if you are a sneakerhead, I know 585 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 2: I'm harping on it, but I cannot recommend highly enough 586 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 2: this Design Boom blog because each shoe has very specific 587 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 2: information about like some of the design features, and there 588 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: are some very specific kind of jargon y terms that 589 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 2: I was unaware of that folks that are into that 590 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: world might be a little more hip too, so I 591 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 2: recommend checking that out. 592 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: We should also mention I think we talked about this 593 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: a little bit off air. The entire time this story 594 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: is taking place, like since forty eight they are suing 595 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: the pants off each other, right or trying to. 596 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 2: I mean pretty much just a non stop torrent of lawsuits. 597 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 2: And I don't know if you were able to find 598 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,479 Speaker 2: anything specific Ben or any specific documentation, but I would 599 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 2: conjecture I would hazard to guess that a lot of 600 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: it was around Rudy possibly nicking some of these designs 601 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 2: from his clearly more sneaker headed brother. 602 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: ADDI, Oh, yeah, absolutely. And as this stuff is happening, 603 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 1: Adidas and Puma are both growing as companies. The town 604 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: is getting further and further and further divided. It becomes 605 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: known as did you see this nickname now? Oh? Yeah, 606 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: the bent Next, Yes, the town of bent Next. Because, 607 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: according to the story, if you were walking around town 608 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: and you saw someone you didn't know, you would look 609 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: at their shoes before you decided whether to talk to them. 610 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: If you were a Puma person and they wore pumas, 611 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: you're in. 612 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is just crazy how it's such a specific industry, 613 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 2: It's such a small town to be divided so and 614 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 2: have such a very interesting way of identifying and easy, right, 615 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 2: you could just look at the other person's shoes and say, 616 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 2: I know what team you're on, buddy. 617 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: Here's how deep it went. This is something I found. 618 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: I only found this in one place, so I hope 619 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: it's true, but I couldn't confirm it yet. Apparently each 620 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: side had their own tombstone carvers. 621 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, that will come into play a little bit later. 622 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 623 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 2: I did find an article on a blog called Duet's 624 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 2: Blog that deals with the intersection of creativity and the law, 625 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: and it talks about how a lot of the lawsuits 626 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 2: between Puma and Adidas were in fact quibbling over that 627 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 2: three stripe design that you mentioned earlier and went into 628 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: Apparently Puma, in a burst of creativity, made it a 629 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 2: four stripe design to just, you know, one stripe better 630 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: in the mind of in the mind of Rudi. Not 631 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,399 Speaker 2: to mention the fact that we talked about earlier, how 632 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 2: there was this focus on getting these athletes to endorse 633 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 2: these products, right, and that continued and became a game 634 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 2: of one upsmanship between Audi and Rudy as their respective 635 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 2: companies kind of started to gain steam on their own. 636 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 2: And this continued on throughout the years. When Audi actually 637 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 2: turned down the idea of sponsoring this young, up and 638 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 2: coming tennis player by the name of Boris Becker if 639 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 2: you've heard of him. He was a big deal in 640 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 2: the in the eighties, in the nineties. And so just 641 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 2: just to as a you know, act of pure one upsmanship, 642 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: Rudy signed him. Not because he thought he was awesome 643 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 2: or he saw any promise in him. He just wanted 644 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 2: to piss off his brother. And this is from a 645 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 2: fantastic article in the Telegraph called Adidas and Puma Bury 646 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 2: the hatchet after sixty years of brothers feud? What bury 647 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: the hatchet? Ben? What does that mean? 648 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: It means that the brothers died, That's what it means. 649 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 2: That is what that means. And remember that tombstone carver 650 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: you were talking about, Well, those respective tombstone carvers carved 651 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: those respective tombstones on polar opposite sides of the town. Yes, 652 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 2: that's correct. 653 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: Rudy Dossler, the elder of the Dostler brothers, died on 654 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: October twenty seventh, nineteen seventy four, of lung cancer. He 655 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: was seventy six. The priest called his little brother Adolf 656 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: to his side, and they did not squash the beef. 657 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: As far as we know. Adolph himself expired four years later. 658 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: He was seventy eight. 659 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: Ben, I want to correct myself here. I think I 660 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 2: said earlier that there were separate cemeteries on opposite side 661 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 2: of the town. That seems to be not quite right. 662 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: They just made sure that in the town cemetery they 663 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 2: were as far away from one another. 664 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: As possible, symbolically as to the telegraph rights, symbolically representing 665 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: their unending hatred. So they did it on purpose. Can 666 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: you imagine that deathbed conversation? Man? 667 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I cannot. No, I cannot and I cannot imagine. 668 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 2: I mean, the circumstances were pretty insane. You're talking about 669 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: a lot of money, a lot of intellectual property, a 670 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 2: weird power dynamic, weird familial relations, not to mention being 671 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 2: in the heart of one of the most brutal conflicts 672 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 2: in the history of the world, if not the most 673 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 2: rutal conflict in the history of the world. So you know, 674 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,879 Speaker 2: lots lots of factors at play here. But I did 675 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 2: read in that Vice article that the brothers purportedly never 676 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 2: spoke to each other again. But then they're hints that 677 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 2: maybe they did here and there from time to time 678 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 2: throughout their lives. But it certainly never smooth things over. 679 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 2: But there's a really good quote from a book called 680 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: Sneaker Wars, The Enemy Brothers who founded Adidas and Pumas 681 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 2: and the family feud that forever changed the Business of Sports, 682 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 2: by Barbara Smitt, and it is a quote from Rudolph 683 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 2: Dossler much later in his life, and he says this, 684 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 2: the relation to my brother was ideal from nineteen twenty 685 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 2: four till nineteen thirty three. Then his young wife tried 686 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 2: to interfere in business matters, although she, with her sixteen years, 687 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 2: had no experience at all, and the warfare began. 688 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: Wow. 689 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 2: So it was probably a situation where he said I 690 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 2: hate your wife. Yeah, like a Yoko Beatles kind of situation. Yeah. 691 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that's the needle in the conflict haystack. Here. 692 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: We do know that the feud carried on to later generations, 693 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: and the brothers had notoriously bad relationships with their children 694 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: as well. I was reading a pretty interesting article in 695 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: The Guardian that talked about this Adidas versus Puma, the 696 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: bitter rivalry that runs and runs, and in this they 697 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: explore the problems that the brothers had almost universally relating 698 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: to family members. So Audie always fought with his son 699 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,280 Speaker 1: and heir, a guy named Horst Dossler, and eventually banished 700 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: him to France. 701 00:40:58,760 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 2: Spanished him. 702 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. He banished him to work on a shoe 703 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: factory that was failing losing a ton of money. He 704 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: turned it into a moneymaker. Then he built a thing 705 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: called Adidas France that rivaled the rest of Adidas, but 706 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't good enough for his dad. And Rudy over 707 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: at Puma had a son named Armand Dossler. It was 708 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: his oldest son in heir. He routinely made fun of 709 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: him in front of other company executives, and he was 710 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: going crazy because he saw his cousin Horst succeeding at Adidas. 711 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: So Armand finally exiled himself to Salzburg to run a 712 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: Puma factory there. And then he started selling shoes on 713 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: the US market, which his father had forbidden him to do. 714 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 1: And when Rudy died in nineteen seventy four, his oldest 715 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: son was startled to learn he had been written out 716 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: of the will. That's cold grief, man. 717 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, after all this bad blood and bitter familial feul, 718 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 2: surely there's a silver lining here somewhere, right, then. 719 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: Is somewhere in the end zone of this story. Yeah, 720 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: on the on the pitch, Yeah, maybe lay it on me. Bro. 721 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 2: Well, the two companies do still exist in that same 722 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 2: tiny town of twenty five thousand Herzo. I'm not gonna 723 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 2: even try to pronounce it again because I don't have 724 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 2: it in front of me. But in two thousand and nine, 725 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 2: the companies kind of put their differences aside, and then 726 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 2: this really brutal history of one upsminceship aside and stepped 727 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: out to play a friendly soccer game whereas the Europeans 728 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 2: call it a football, and it was to support the 729 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 2: Peace One Day organization, which chose September twenty first of 730 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine as the first, I believe, of 731 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 2: an annual day of non violence. So but then this 732 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 2: article in the Telegraph ends with the very knowing little 733 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 2: Kicker line quote. But despite the friendly handshakes, those who 734 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 2: know the townspeople say it will take more than one 735 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 2: game of soccer to bury the hatchet. 736 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: And in business terms, Adidas, if you just look at 737 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: the numbers, is by far the larger company. I think 738 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine they had thirty nine thousand 739 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 1: employees compared to Puma's nine thousand, but Puma says they're 740 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: not hurting. They have a great reputation for getting the 741 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: endorsements of world famous athletes like Usain Bolt was one 742 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: of the one of the more recent ones. 743 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 2: And that's a legacy that's just carried over from the 744 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 2: old Dossler Brothers days. So very very forward thinking. And 745 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 2: I did read somewhere that while Adidas maybe wasn't the 746 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 2: first custom sneaker company, they were the first to like 747 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 2: mass produce and sell them to the public. Because you 748 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 2: make a custom sneaker designed for an athlete, there was 749 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 2: a time where it was literally a custom product designed 750 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 2: for an individual. Now these custom products, people want them 751 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 2: on their feet, even though they are not Hussein Bolt, 752 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,879 Speaker 2: even though they are not Michael Jordan, you know, yes, 753 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 2: and feel a little bit closer to their heroes. 754 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, like Rebock pumps. You know, remember those La lights? 755 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, easies. It's an interesting pattern and it makes 756 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: me think that we found a crazy piece of history 757 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: that a lot of people don't know. If you are 758 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: listening to this, gosh, I hope someone out here is 759 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this and you're wearing Adidas and Pumas, 760 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: Adidas or Pumas. I don't know how you'd wear I 761 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: guess one on one foot, one on the other. That 762 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: would look ridiculous. That's very forward fashion, I think. But 763 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: if you're wearing those, be aware that you are treading 764 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: on strange history with each step. You take a waxing 765 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: poetic here just because it's such an interesting story. 766 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the image of treading when we're talking about shoes, 767 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:47,800 Speaker 2: that works quite nicely. 768 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, oh, thanks man, And we hope that you 769 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed making it 770 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: NOL again. You know, I don't want to blow up 771 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: your spot, but happy birthday man. 772 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks pal. We'll have a drink after work maybe. 773 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, let's see. Let's look into that. Casey, he 774 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: are you down? Let's do it all right? Well, Casey 775 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 1: is spoken, And of course we want to thank you 776 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: Casey for helping us out as always, thanks for saving 777 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: the show. We want to thank our research associate Ease 778 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: Jeff Cope. 779 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 2: Also want to thank Alex Williams, who composed our theme. 780 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 2: And yeah, we want to thank you for joining us 781 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 2: for another episode of Ridiculous History. Stay tuned for our 782 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: next episode where we blow up the moon try to. 783 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 2: We'll see you then, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 784 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 785 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.