Speaker 1: This podcast discusses consensual sexual activity. Please take care while listening.
Speaker 1: One of Spencer's long term affairs was with a friend
Speaker 1: of Jennifer's, and she found that especially hurtful. He wrote
Speaker 1: about it to jen To my memory, she was staring
Speaker 1: at me a lot at the bar. I'm sure I
Speaker 1: noticed and tried to dismiss it as just my imagination,
Speaker 1: but it continued. I honestly have no idea how it started.
Speaker 1: I simply found times when you or her husband were
Speaker 1: both out of town when it was over with her.
Speaker 1: You can't imagine my relief that problem in my life
Speaker 1: was over. I was so happy. I'm Andrea Gunning and
Speaker 1: this is trial episode six, the only one. I don't
Speaker 1: know much about your relationship with this woman, but she
Speaker 1: was your friend, right, yeah. I mean one of the
Speaker 1: reasons that I really wanted to talk to her is
Speaker 1: because she was a friend of mine. She knew us.
Speaker 1: When Spence and I opened the bar, her and her
Speaker 1: husband started coming in as regulars, and so, like a
Speaker 1: lot of people, we became friends with them. When they
Speaker 1: got out for a night and had a babysitter, they'd
Speaker 1: go to dinner in town but come by the bar.
Speaker 1: Before or after and spend time with us. So when
Speaker 1: I opened Spence's email and started scrolling through his photos,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden her picture popped up. And to
Speaker 1: see somebody, you know, provocatively in a photo and knowing
Speaker 1: that they sent it to your husband, I mean, I
Speaker 1: was so angry, as you can imagine. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was with everybody. But I called her that night and
Speaker 1: it was probably eleven eleven thirty at night, and I
Speaker 1: didn't care. I went back to look through all the
Speaker 1: correspondence between them, and I realized that they had been
Speaker 1: seeing each other from like the end of two thousand
Speaker 1: fourteen through two sixteen, And in reading all of their correspondence,
Speaker 1: I could really tell that she got hurt, like she
Speaker 1: had fallen for Spence hard. She really believed she was
Speaker 1: the only one. She really did. She left me a
Speaker 1: voicemail and she said, I thought I was the only one.
Speaker 1: It wasn't easy for any of the women involved with
Speaker 1: Spencer to participate in this podcast. Jen's former friend agreed
Speaker 1: to speak with her on the record. The requested that
Speaker 1: we keep her voice in name private. Although this conversation
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent reel any interest of protecting her identity.
Speaker 1: We used a voice actor for her side the conversation.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me how the relationship between the two
Speaker 1: of you started. It happened so slowly, finding things that
Speaker 1: were similarities between us, Like I played soccer, you know
Speaker 1: he played soccer. I coached, he coached, So early conversations
Speaker 1: would be, you know, when we run into each other, like, oh,
Speaker 1: how's the game, or how's coaching, or hey, coach, you know,
Speaker 1: certain things that were not necessarily flirtatious, but getting to
Speaker 1: know me and my family and you know, making me
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with him over time. And then I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, knowing that there was an instance where he
Speaker 1: would try to start physical interactions. Was that usually at
Speaker 1: the wine bar. Yeah. The very first time I went
Speaker 1: to the bathroom at the end of the night, he
Speaker 1: asked me if I could help stay there for him
Speaker 1: to close up, like help carry something out. I went
Speaker 1: into the bathroom and when I came out, he was
Speaker 1: there and mentioned like, you know that we have this
Speaker 1: thing together. You know you're feeling is too right, And
Speaker 1: then he came in for a kiss, then held my
Speaker 1: hand and touched his crotch with my hand on the
Speaker 1: outside of his pants, and what did you do? I mean,
Speaker 1: I just had wine, you know, So me feeling like
Speaker 1: it was somebody I trusted over at least six months
Speaker 1: to a year. I mean, I had thought he was attractive,
Speaker 1: not that that's any fault to my significant other, but
Speaker 1: he was traveling a lot, and when he was home
Speaker 1: he fell asleep, really and I was a stay at
Speaker 1: home mom with kids and I was stressed out and
Speaker 1: I felt like somebody got me in that moment. So
Speaker 1: he knew he was taking advantage of that. So how
Speaker 1: did it progress them? Like, how did he, I guess,
Speaker 1: justify it that we were meant to be together. However,
Speaker 1: in the midst of things, I remember him saying that,
Speaker 1: you know, his wife can never find out because you know,
Speaker 1: he loves his wife and his relationship, so nobody could
Speaker 1: find out what was going on. He made me feel
Speaker 1: like I was the only one and special and I
Speaker 1: know that sounds weird, Nope, but both being married and
Speaker 1: in a relationship, I was okay with it. I felt
Speaker 1: like I didn't necessarily want to have physical contact, you know,
Speaker 1: I think guys are more driven towards that, but I
Speaker 1: guess in a way, I almost felt like I owed
Speaker 1: him something, and I was never forced or never said
Speaker 1: no and against my will, but all along I knew
Speaker 1: it was wrong. But then I would always hear, you know, like,
Speaker 1: you're so beautiful, you're really really well rounded, You're a
Speaker 1: great mom. But I was strung out, stressed out, didn't
Speaker 1: feel pretty all the time, because you know, I had
Speaker 1: kids hanging off me, breastfeeding. I was greasy, maybe showered
Speaker 1: every couple days, maybe washed up with baby wipes, and
Speaker 1: him coming in and making like those compliments and stuff.
Speaker 1: Of course it made me feel good. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: remember one day after the wine bar, we went to
Speaker 1: the restaurant back in the back, and I remember questioning
Speaker 1: him like how many people do you do this with?
Speaker 1: And he's like what? And I was like, how many
Speaker 1: people have you had relationships with outside of your marriage?
Speaker 1: And he's like, are you kidding me? None? No others,
Speaker 1: no one. In my gut, I knew that this was
Speaker 1: happening all over because I could see the way that
Speaker 1: he would look at people in public situation, as if
Speaker 1: I was off in a distance or he was exchanging
Speaker 1: money with somebody, his hand would linger on hers a
Speaker 1: little bit longer. It was a challenge it was a game.
Speaker 1: So this happened over a couple of years. At the
Speaker 1: peak of it, what was it like, Like we weren't
Speaker 1: in contact all the time. I mean, it was mostly
Speaker 1: like texts or emails, and the times that we met
Speaker 1: up were few and far between than what you probably
Speaker 1: think because I wasn't about all that. And then there
Speaker 1: were times where he would, you know, say we'll just
Speaker 1: role play, and I felt okay doing that because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'd rather talk about it than meet up and do
Speaker 1: something that I know is horrible. Did you also feel
Speaker 1: that sense to like please him? I did, because at
Speaker 1: some point I did kind of feel like, well, now
Speaker 1: I'm into deep. If I try to stop this, is
Speaker 1: he gonna like go tell somebody, you know? But it
Speaker 1: wasn't like I was ever forced. Looking back, that's what's embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I consented to that stuff with him merely taking that
Speaker 1: time to build that relationship. You don't want to live
Speaker 1: your life having a shield up against somebody who's going
Speaker 1: to pay you a compliment or somebody who's going to
Speaker 1: get to know you and be a good person. But
Speaker 1: that's truly how it happened, very nonchalant over time, gaining
Speaker 1: that trust. And I think people that have that sickness
Speaker 1: or that addiction, they know that that's what works. It's rooming.
Speaker 1: It's rooming, it is rooming, and they don't mind taking
Speaker 1: the time to build that trust. And at what point
Speaker 1: did you realize it was grooming? You know? Going through
Speaker 1: all this, I was going to church and believing in God.
Speaker 1: Was I as strong with my relationship with God at
Speaker 1: that time? No? I wasn't. I felt bad going to church,
Speaker 1: I felt bad taking the communion, but I felt at
Speaker 1: one point like I was just in too far with things,
Speaker 1: and it just hit me, like I realized what was
Speaker 1: going on, and I just said, I can't, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. And it was at that
Speaker 1: point when I really realized that I'm not the only
Speaker 1: other one that's being flirted with. And that's when I
Speaker 1: kind of said, like, what's going on? There were plenty
Speaker 1: of times when I wanted to come to you, but
Speaker 1: I didn't think you'd believe me because he was so
Speaker 1: good at charming and talking his way around things. You
Speaker 1: probably would have went to him and he would have
Speaker 1: denied it. And he's your husband. If you don't know
Speaker 1: for sure, you know, there wasn't any evidence, but there
Speaker 1: was evidence not earlier on, when it was just kind
Speaker 1: of the grooming process, right. I wish that I could
Speaker 1: have noticed it at that point. I wish I had
Speaker 1: the strength to be that person that would have just
Speaker 1: seen everything bright and clear and could have given you
Speaker 1: heads up, because surely things wouldn't have happened with other people,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that's why it's important for
Speaker 1: other people to hear this, because you can honestly say
Speaker 1: I might have stepped into something and made that mistake
Speaker 1: and fallen for it, but like, look, these are the signs.
Speaker 1: And then, especially when I found out what happened with
Speaker 1: somebody underage, do you think I kicked myself the way
Speaker 1: I was talked to to feel good about myself and
Speaker 1: to trust him. Surely that happened to that same girl.
Speaker 1: I bet you any money it was the same steps,
Speaker 1: just continuously building a relationship with somebody and making them
Speaker 1: feel good about themselves, but also making them feel like
Speaker 1: they're not doing anything bad. I had remembered saying like
Speaker 1: I can't do this, this is wrong. Well no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not wrong. You just can't help when two people
Speaker 1: just click like we do. Those were the kind of
Speaker 1: comments that I would get really oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But then at the same time, I didn't want anyone
Speaker 1: finding out about this and didn't want his marriage to
Speaker 1: be ruined. I think that was his cover. His cover
Speaker 1: was being married. People didn't expect him to do these things,
Speaker 1: and he used that. So you knew me. You must
Speaker 1: have asked him about me, like were you guys gonna
Speaker 1: go off together? Absolutely not, and I asked him that.
Speaker 1: At one point, I said, what do you want from this?
Speaker 1: He would say that he was happy and nothing was
Speaker 1: wrong with his relationship, and he would just bring it
Speaker 1: back on like you can't help, kind of like a
Speaker 1: fate situation of two people being really good for each other,
Speaker 1: and then he would say, like, you know, there's no
Speaker 1: commitment or whatever. And then at one point I remember
Speaker 1: him saying something about meeting up and I said no,
Speaker 1: and he texted me a picture of his dick right
Speaker 1: right out there, not even expecting it right out there
Speaker 1: on my phone. So when he was wanting to meet
Speaker 1: up and I knew things were wrong, I felt like, well,
Speaker 1: if I could give him anything that would make him happy,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have to do physical you know, like
Speaker 1: meet in person and do that kind of stuff, then
Speaker 1: I will. So if I was drinking wine one night
Speaker 1: and you know, binge watching shows or something, and he
Speaker 1: texted me and at one point then requested me to
Speaker 1: send him a picture, I felt like that was better
Speaker 1: than actually getting together with him, right, And then I
Speaker 1: remember saying to him the next day, like, you need
Speaker 1: to delete that. Will you promise me you delete that now?
Speaker 1: Are you surprised to know that he kept everything? I
Speaker 1: mean he told me like, of course, of course, you know.
Speaker 1: But then in the back of my mind I had
Speaker 1: a feeling, especially towards the end, that he did not
Speaker 1: delete that kind of stuff really aggravates me. That was
Speaker 1: personal important things, Yes, that I made the wrong decision
Speaker 1: to do. But in me asking him he should have
Speaker 1: deleted those, like, I feel like that is not right
Speaker 1: at all. Well wait, let me ask you this. I
Speaker 1: just want to go back. Did you guys sleep together? Yes?
Speaker 1: Where in the bathroom at the bar. And then there
Speaker 1: was another time when I was out on my own
Speaker 1: with friends and he was kind of pestering me for
Speaker 1: me to pick him up, and that was another place
Speaker 1: his car. Yes, did you ever come to my house.
Speaker 1: I came to your house once. He invited a woman
Speaker 1: into my house. He did, and I bet I wasn't
Speaker 1: the only one, and so you just came into my house.
Speaker 1: He took my hands and he took me upstairs. He
Speaker 1: had things set up in the upper bedroom with like
Speaker 1: candles and shit. That was the point where I couldn't
Speaker 1: and I told him no. So I ended up staying
Speaker 1: downstairs and we got into an argument. And that was
Speaker 1: one of the times toward the end that I felt
Speaker 1: like I just couldn't do this because of the regret
Speaker 1: that I had for what I was doing to you
Speaker 1: and my family. Well what did you think you were
Speaker 1: there for? I don't know. He talked me into going.
Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, I'll come over quick whatever,
Speaker 1: you know. I said, like, I don't feel like going
Speaker 1: in your house, and I'm like, is somebody else home?
Speaker 1: He said that you were traveling or something, and that's
Speaker 1: when I was like, I can't. And along the way,
Speaker 1: I think it was things like that situations he was
Speaker 1: putting me into where I knew that it was going
Speaker 1: past the point of no return, but I wasn't going
Speaker 1: any farther. And then finally I just took a look
Speaker 1: back and really started praying about it. And at that point,
Speaker 1: it was almost like a dream, like I can't believe
Speaker 1: what I did, what had happened. It was like what's
Speaker 1: done is done. I ended up telling my husband on
Speaker 1: my own without him even finding anything out, because it
Speaker 1: was just eating at me. So what happened after you
Speaker 1: told your husband? It was one night and the kids
Speaker 1: were in bed, and I ended up telling him at
Speaker 1: the table. I'm like, I have something to tell you.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I did something really horrible and he's like,
Speaker 1: did you have sex? And I said yes? And that
Speaker 1: was the utmost hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Speaker 1: And he was very distraught, very distraught, and it was
Speaker 1: really hard for a long time. You know, our relationships
Speaker 1: great now, and looking back, I think it was that
Speaker 1: moment when I got a text from somebody with the
Speaker 1: article that came out about him going to jail for
Speaker 1: underage sex and stuff like that, and I had no doubt,
Speaker 1: no doubt. I felt a flood of emotion. Is that
Speaker 1: something I could have prevented? You know? But that's the
Speaker 1: moment in our relationship that we could actually look at
Speaker 1: this in a different light other than me just being
Speaker 1: a person that goes and does this. I thought I
Speaker 1: was just a horrible person, and this is something that
Speaker 1: I sought out, and knowing that it's not, I was
Speaker 1: blindly taken advantage of in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1: Did us being friends ever give you pause or factor
Speaker 1: into it? I know we were associated with you guys,
Speaker 1: and we were friends, but like, there wasn't too much
Speaker 1: entanglement in our lives. It wasn't like we were going
Speaker 1: out every weekend and we were doing things together. And
Speaker 1: part of me looks back and wishes that would have happened,
Speaker 1: because I think I would have been stronger to resist,
Speaker 1: you know, those passes by him. What happened when your
Speaker 1: husband confronts it's spense about this, just yelling and screaming,
Speaker 1: and he didn't want me to hear him, but I
Speaker 1: was trying to listen and through the event in the
Speaker 1: first floor to listen to him in the basement. He
Speaker 1: was livid, he was yelling, spitting, I mean, he wanted
Speaker 1: to rip him apart. Still to this day, does cannot
Speaker 1: ever ever forgive, even though he's a God loving person,
Speaker 1: can't ever ever forgive what had happened but at that point,
Speaker 1: like why didn't anybody come to me? I guess I
Speaker 1: just knew that was like your fairy tale and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I guess at that point I just wanted to
Speaker 1: just hide everything. But then after that, you guys still
Speaker 1: kind of communicated. Was that spense kind of making that gesture? Oh? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean, now that it was out to my husband,
Speaker 1: I would have never. I had to salvage everything that
Speaker 1: I could. I mean, I wanted to meet up to
Speaker 1: like talk to him about why and how many other
Speaker 1: people and could he come clean with me because I
Speaker 1: knew he was lying. And then I also wanted to
Speaker 1: tell him, like you need to tell your wife or
Speaker 1: else I'm going to and he avoided. He always made
Speaker 1: an excuse not to get together. The first voicemail that
Speaker 1: you left me, you said something that stuck with me,
Speaker 1: and that was he made you feel special. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you were the only one he made me feel that
Speaker 1: way but lied to my face. Yeah, I felt like
Speaker 1: I knew him and trusted him. Looking back, it was
Speaker 1: so stupid. It was so stupid. I cannot believe I
Speaker 1: let somebody so far into my mind mentally, and I
Speaker 1: think it was also the situation that I was in,
Speaker 1: you know, with my husband working a lot, and again
Speaker 1: not his fault at all, like I should have known
Speaker 1: better as a void of other things, I guess kind
Speaker 1: of in my life. He came men and he knew
Speaker 1: those were things I would tell him, and he knew
Speaker 1: that he could be right in there. But my thing
Speaker 1: that boggled my mind was like, if I was his
Speaker 1: only person, why would he always say like, well, my
Speaker 1: wife can never find it out, or like I like
Speaker 1: things how I have them? Well, yeah, you do, because
Speaker 1: that's your front, and it enables you to do this stuff,
Speaker 1: enables you to go out and like encroach on other
Speaker 1: women knowing that you're married, like nothing would ever happen. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean you were right on. There were more women,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. You know. I hate what happened all around.
Speaker 1: And I feel like you're super strong, obviously way better
Speaker 1: than he is. And I'm glad you found this out
Speaker 1: in the way that you did. I'm glad you found
Speaker 1: it out so you can live a really awesome life
Speaker 1: moving forward. That's right. I mean, if one out of
Speaker 1: all the women I found had spoken up, you know,
Speaker 1: thank God for the victim, the student who had the courage.
Speaker 1: She even waited until later to come out right, like,
Speaker 1: you're scared. First of all, you don't want to admit
Speaker 1: that you did something horribly wrong. But before you don't
Speaker 1: want to admit that you were taken advantage of life.
Speaker 1: You know, it's embarrassing, but people can't be afraid to
Speaker 1: be embarrassed. You have to talk to somebody. Are you
Speaker 1: surprised to hear that I found more women? No, not
Speaker 1: at all, absolutely not. That's why when I came out
Speaker 1: and saw there's comments about an underage girl and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and people being on his side, that pissed
Speaker 1: me off because I sometimes wondered if he did that.
Speaker 1: You know, I was like, all these girls probably think
Speaker 1: he's real cute at school and stuff like. In the
Speaker 1: back of my mind, I was like, hopefully he wouldn't
Speaker 1: do something like that, and then like that comes out.
Speaker 1: I felt horrible. I felt mixed emotions. I felt bad
Speaker 1: for the girl, I felt pissed off at him, I
Speaker 1: felt sorry for you. I couldn't believe it actually came
Speaker 1: out and happened, but I was happy it happened because
Speaker 1: that got him. If not to this day, he could
Speaker 1: still be doing that crap. But knowing that he kept
Speaker 1: all those things, that's somebody with a major issue, major horrible,
Speaker 1: disgusting issue. He had you, he had his kids, he
Speaker 1: had everything right in front of him, and whatever it was,
Speaker 1: whatever was wrong with him mentally fucked up or whatever,
Speaker 1: that is somebody with an issue. So all along I
Speaker 1: felt like it was me and that I was horrible
Speaker 1: and I did this, I did this thing and made
Speaker 1: this horrible mistake. But now I do realize that it
Speaker 1: is a victim type situation. I'm sorry for what happened
Speaker 1: overall for me. You would think I would know better,
Speaker 1: But exactly what happened to the underage girl is what
Speaker 1: happened to the other women. And you know what, there's
Speaker 1: probably so many women that don't have remorse for what
Speaker 1: they did or what they took part in. But I
Speaker 1: can tell you that I do, and I know you do,
Speaker 1: and I really want you to get past this. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think about it every day now, But of course,
Speaker 1: since you and I have come into contact with each
Speaker 1: other over the past couple months here, of course I've
Speaker 1: had like full on anxiety attacks and I've had to
Speaker 1: like pop out at a van and really try to
Speaker 1: get my head straight around everything. But it makes me
Speaker 1: feel good for you saying that to me. I can
Speaker 1: never be sorry enough to you. It was never ever
Speaker 1: pointed at you. I knew you were in this situation.
Speaker 1: But I can't even tell you how he made it
Speaker 1: feel like there wasn't anything else, any barriers there, and
Speaker 1: that was part of whatever he does and whatever those
Speaker 1: types of people do well. And I guess I was
Speaker 1: looking for, like, what was that secret ingredient and how
Speaker 1: did he get away with it? How was he able
Speaker 1: to manage so much going on at the same time.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. You teach, you coach, you have
Speaker 1: a wife that you do things with, You guys had
Speaker 1: a business. How do you do all these things? But
Speaker 1: then I would hear him say like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go away on my army weekend or whatever, and I knew.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, how many states does he have people?
Speaker 1: And that he's counting on. My biggest regret going back.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course I would say for all this
Speaker 1: not to happen, But my biggest regret is not saying
Speaker 1: something right away, and I'll always regret that. I can't
Speaker 1: ever not feel like that but I mean definitely helps me.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've helped you at all. Yes,
Speaker 1: you did, you really did. Thank you. But that's also
Speaker 1: why I'm sharing my story. It's one of those things.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, no, that could never happen to
Speaker 1: somebody I know, and it's like, wait, what, how do
Speaker 1: you navigate this? It's crazy. I have a question like
Speaker 1: was your husband always on his phone? No, I swear
Speaker 1: to God, No, I think about that all the time.
Speaker 1: Was he sitting in bed, like texting all night and
Speaker 1: things like that. No. I think a lot of it
Speaker 1: happened during the day. Will never understand why she was
Speaker 1: able to tell her husband, but telling you was different.
Speaker 1: Maybe she felt like that was Spencer's responsibility. I think
Speaker 1: I do hold her somewhat responsible for not telling me
Speaker 1: because she could have. And you would hope that the
Speaker 1: relationship and connection you've built with someone would make them
Speaker 1: second guess their decisions. Yes, that's another thing. It's different
Speaker 1: for some reason the women who didn't know me that
Speaker 1: chose to do this, But for a woman who knew
Speaker 1: me and saw me a couple times a week, I
Speaker 1: just can't even imagine doing that to somebody is it
Speaker 1: hard to know that people were just like walking around
Speaker 1: knowing your life and your marriage and your household was
Speaker 1: something fundamentally different than what you knew it to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's what it's so hard to wrap your head
Speaker 1: around when your reality of the life you're leading is
Speaker 1: one way, and then to think that it's really not that.
Speaker 1: And there were people who knew it, you know. I
Speaker 1: think there were people that did know me, maybe not well,
Speaker 1: but certainly knew he had a wife. I read so
Speaker 1: many correspondents with him and women and him inviting them
Speaker 1: to the bar or saying it was so good to
Speaker 1: see you at the bar last night, or come see
Speaker 1: me at the bar tonight. So clearly this was a
Speaker 1: place that I'm finding out now where he used to
Speaker 1: get relationships. I walked away feeling like, this is a
Speaker 1: person that was really hurt and really into your ex husband.
Speaker 1: Because I'm trying to put myself in someone shoes and
Speaker 1: unless I'm interested, I'm not noticing the hands from a
Speaker 1: customer on his hand, I'm not noticing the subtle looks.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was paying attention to him on a
Speaker 1: very deep level. She was watching him. That just makes
Speaker 1: me feel like you know, she was really roped in.
Speaker 1: I really think in her mind she had invested some
Speaker 1: of herself into this relationship. I'm just curious if you're
Speaker 1: like letting go of that anger that you have towards her.
Speaker 1: I do have a little more anger toward her because
Speaker 1: she was a friend and she was doing this right
Speaker 1: under my nose with my husband. I also appreciate, though,
Speaker 1: that she was willing to get on the phone and
Speaker 1: talk to me about it so I can let this go,
Speaker 1: because honestly, I want her life to be okay. I
Speaker 1: hope that the conversation maybe gave her some closure as well,
Speaker 1: and hopefully by letting her know that he was like
Speaker 1: this with other people, it helps her a little bit
Speaker 1: to understand, you know, that this is a pretty sick person.
Speaker 1: She's not the only person that fell for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it was Spence that
Speaker 1: hurt me, But that part of being mad at the women,
Speaker 1: I just don't carry that his behavior was so out
Speaker 1: of control that it could have been anybody. On the
Speaker 1: next episode of Betrayal, I had never ever looked at
Speaker 1: her in any inappropriate way, not at all. In fact,
Speaker 1: probably for the last ten to fifteen years. I have
Speaker 1: not looked at any teen girl as anything but that
Speaker 1: a teen girl. I'd gotten older. There were no fantasies.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to reach out to the Betrayal team,
Speaker 1: email us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's
Speaker 1: Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. Betrayal is a production
Speaker 1: of podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by Nancy
Speaker 1: Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning,
Speaker 1: written and produced by Carry Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman.
Speaker 1: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinchik. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to voice actors Todd Ganz and Rocky Alt. Sound
Speaker 1: editing and mixing done by Matt DeVecchio. The trail's theme
Speaker 1: was composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by my
Speaker 1: Music and For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.