1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: This podcast discusses consensual sexual activity. Please take care while listening. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: One of Spencer's long term affairs was with a friend 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: of Jennifer's, and she found that especially hurtful. He wrote 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: about it to jen. 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 2: To my memory, she was staring at me a lot 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 2: at the bar. I'm sure I noticed and tried to 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: dismiss it as just my imagination, but it continued. I 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: honestly have no idea how it started. I simply found 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: times when you or her husband were both out of 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: town when it was over with her. You can't imagine 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: my relief that problem in my life was over. I 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: was so happy. 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is trial episode six, the 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: only one. 15 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:17,279 Speaker 3: I don't know much about your relationship with this woman, 16 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 3: but she was your friend, right, yeah. 17 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 4: I mean one of the reasons that I really wanted 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 4: to talk to her is because she was a. 19 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 5: Friend of mine. She knew us. 20 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 4: When Spencer and I opened the bar, her and her 21 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 4: husband started coming in as regulars, and so, like a 22 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 4: lot of people, we became friends with them. When they 23 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 4: got out for a night and had a babysitter, they'd 24 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 4: go to dinner in town but come. 25 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 3: By the bar. 26 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 4: Before or after and spend time with us. So when 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 4: I opened Spencer's email and started scrolling through his photos, 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 4: all of a sudden her picture popped up. And to 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 4: see somebody, you know, provocatively in a photo and knowing 30 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 4: that they sent it to your husband, I mean, I 31 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 4: was so angry, as you can imagine. 32 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I was with everybody. 33 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 4: But I called her that night and it was probably 34 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 4: eleven eleven thirty at night, and I didn't care. I 35 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 4: went back to look through all the correspondence between them, 36 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 4: and I realized that they had been seeing each other 37 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 4: from like the end of two thousand and fourteen through 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, and in reading all of their correspondents, I 39 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 4: could really tell that she got hurt, like she had 40 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 4: fallen for Spence hard. She really believed she was the 41 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 4: only one. She really did. She left me a voicemail 42 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 4: and she said, I thought I was the only one. 43 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: It wasn't easy for any of the women involved with 44 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: Spencer to participate in this podcast. Jen's former friend agreed 45 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: to speak with her on the record. The requested that 46 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: we keep her voice and name private. Although this conversation 47 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: is one hundred percent real and the interest of protecting 48 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: her identity. We used a voice actor for her side 49 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: the conversation. 50 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 6: Can you tell me how the relationship between the two 51 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 6: of you started. 52 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 7: It happened so slowly, finding things that were similarities between us, 53 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 7: Like I played soccer, you know he played soccer. 54 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 5: I coached, he coached, So early. 55 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 7: Conversations would be, you know when we run into each other, like, oh, 56 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 7: how's the game, or how's. 57 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 5: Coaching, or hey, coach? 58 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 7: You know, certain things that were not necessarily flirtatious, but 59 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 7: getting to know me and my family and you know, 60 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 7: making me feel comfortable with him over time, and then 61 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 7: I guess, you know, knowing that there was an instance 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 7: where he would try to start physical interactions. 63 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 8: Was that usually at the wine bar? 64 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 5: Yeah. 65 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 7: The very first time I went to the bathroom at 66 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 7: the end of the night, he asked me if I 67 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 7: could help stay there for him to close up, like 68 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 7: help carry something out. I went into the bathroom and 69 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 7: when I came out, he was there and mentioned like, 70 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 7: you know that we have this thing together. You know 71 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 7: you're feeling this too, right, And then he came in 72 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 7: for a kiss, then held my hand and touched his 73 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 7: crotch with my hand on the outside. 74 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 8: Of his pants and what did you do? 75 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 7: I mean, I just had wine, you know, So me 76 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 7: feeling like it was somebody I trusted over at least 77 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 7: six months to a year. I mean, I had thought 78 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 7: he was attractive, not that that's any fault to my 79 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 7: significant other, but he was traveling a lot, and when 80 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 7: he was home he fell asleep, and I was a 81 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 7: stay at home mom with kids, and I was stressed out, 82 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 7: and I felt like somebody got me in that moment. 83 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 7: So he knew he was taking advantage of that. 84 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 8: So how did it propress them? 85 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 4: Like? 86 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 8: How did he, I guess, justify it. 87 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 7: That we were meant to be together. However, in the 88 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 7: midst of things, I remember him saying that, you know, 89 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 7: his wife can never find out because you know, he 90 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 7: loves his wife and his relationship, so nobody could find 91 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 7: out what was going on. He made me feel like 92 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 7: I was the only one and special and I know 93 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 7: that sounds. 94 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 5: Weird, Nope, but both being married. 95 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 7: And in a relationship, I was okay with it. I 96 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 7: felt like I didn't necessarily want to have physical contact, 97 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 7: you know, I think guys are more driven towards that, 98 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 7: but I guess in a way, I almost felt like 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 7: I owed him something and I never forced or never 100 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 7: said no, and against my will, but all along I 101 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 7: knew it was wrong. But then I would always hear, 102 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 7: you know, like you're so beautiful, you're really really well rounded. 103 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 5: You're a great mom. 104 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 7: But I was strung out, stressed out, didn't feel pretty 105 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 7: all the time, because you know, I had kids hanging 106 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 7: off me, breastfeeding. 107 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 5: I was greasy, maybe. 108 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 7: Showered every couple days, maybe washed up with baby wipes, 109 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 7: and him coming in and making like those compliments and stuff. 110 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 5: Of course it made me feel good, yea. 111 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 7: And I remember one day after the wine bar, we 112 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 7: went to the restaurant back in the back, and I 113 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 7: remember questioning him, like how many people do you do 114 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 7: this with? 115 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 5: And he's like what? 116 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 7: And I was like, how many people have you had 117 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 7: relationships with outside of your marriage? 118 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 5: And he's like, are you kidding me? None? No others, 119 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 5: no one. 120 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 7: In my gut, I knew that this was happening all 121 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 7: over because I could see the way that he would 122 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 7: look at people in public situation. If I was off 123 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 7: in the distance or he was exchanging money with somebody, 124 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 7: his hand would linger on hers a little bit longer. 125 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 5: It was a challenge. It was a game. 126 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 8: So this happened over a couple of years. At the 127 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 8: peak of it, what was it like. 128 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 7: Like we weren't in contact all the time. I mean, 129 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 7: it was mostly like texts or emails, and the times 130 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 7: that we met up were few and far between than 131 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 7: what you probably think because I wasn't about all that. 132 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 7: And then there were times where he would, you know, say, 133 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 7: well just role play and I felt okay doing that 134 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 7: because I'm like, I'd rather talk about it than meet 135 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 7: up and do something that I know is horrible. 136 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 8: Did you also feel that sense to like please him? 137 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 7: I did, because at some point I did kind of 138 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 7: feel like, well, now I'm in too deep. If I 139 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 7: try to stop this, is he going to like go 140 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 7: tell somebody, you know? But it wasn't like I was 141 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 7: ever forced. Looking back, that's what's embarrassing. I consented to 142 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 7: that stuff with him merely taking that time to build 143 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 7: that relationship. You don't want to live your life having 144 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 7: a shield up against somebody who's going to pay you 145 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 7: a compliment or somebody who's going to get to know 146 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 7: you and be a good person. But that's truly how 147 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 7: it happened, very nonchalant over time gaining that trust. And 148 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 7: I think people that have that sickness or that addiction, 149 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 7: they know that that's what works. 150 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 5: It's grooming. It's rooming. 151 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 7: It is grooming, and they don't mind taking the time 152 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 7: to build that trust. 153 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 8: And at what point did you realize it was grooming? 154 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 9: You know? 155 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 7: Going through all this, I was going to church and 156 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 7: believing in God. Was I as strong with my relationship 157 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 7: with God at that time? 158 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: No? 159 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 5: I wasn't. I felt bad going to church. 160 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 7: I felt bad taking the communion, but I felt at 161 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 7: one point like I was just in too far with things, 162 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 7: and it just hit me, like I realized what was 163 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 7: going on, and I just said, I can't, you know, 164 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 7: I can't do this anymore. And it was at that 165 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 7: point when I really realized that I'm not the only 166 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 7: other one that's being flirted with. And that's when I 167 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 7: kind of said, like, what's going on? There were plenty 168 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 7: of times when I wanted to come to you, but 169 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 7: I didn't think you'd believe me because he was so 170 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 7: good at charming and talking his way around things. You 171 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 7: probably would have went to him and he would have 172 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 7: denied it. And he's your husband. 173 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 5: If you don't know. 174 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 7: For sure, you know, there wasn't any evidence, but there 175 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 7: was evidence not earlier on, when it was just kind 176 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 7: of the grooming process, right. 177 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 5: I wish that I could have noticed it at that point. 178 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 7: I wish I had the strength to be that person 179 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 7: that would have just seen everything bright and clear and 180 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 7: could have given you heads up, because surely things wouldn't 181 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 7: have happened with other people, you know. 182 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 8: And I think that's why it's important for other people 183 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 8: to hear this, because you can honestly say I might 184 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 8: have stepped into something and made that mistake and fallen 185 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 8: for it, but like, look, these are the sign. 186 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 7: And then, especially when I found out what happened with 187 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 7: somebody underage, do you think I kicked myself the way 188 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 7: I was talked to to feel good about myself. 189 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 5: And to trust him. Surely that happened to that same girl. 190 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 7: I bet you any money it was the same steps, 191 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 7: just continuously building a relationship with somebody and making them 192 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 7: feel good about themselves, but also making them feel like 193 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 7: they're not doing anything bad. I had remembered saying like 194 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 7: I can't do this, this is wrong. Well no, no, 195 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 7: it's not wrong. You just can't help when two people 196 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 7: just click like we do. Those were the kind of 197 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 7: comments that I would get really oh my gosh. 198 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 5: Yeah. 199 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 7: But then at the same time, I didn't want anyone 200 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 7: finding out about this and didn't want his marriage to 201 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 7: be ruined. 202 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 5: I think that was his cover. His cover was being married. 203 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 7: People didn't expect him to do these things, and he 204 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 7: used that. 205 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 8: So you knew me. You must have asked him about me, 206 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 8: like were you guys gonna go off together? 207 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 7: Absolutely not, and I asked him that. At one point, 208 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 7: I said, what do you want from this? He would 209 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 7: say that he was happy and nothing was wrong with 210 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 7: his relationship, and he would just bring it back on 211 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 7: like you can't help, kind of like a fate situation 212 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 7: of two people being really good for each other, and 213 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 7: then he would say, like, you know, there's no commitment 214 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 7: or whatever. And then at one point I remember him 215 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 7: saying something about meeting up and I said no, and 216 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 7: he texted me a picture of his dick right right 217 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 7: out there, not even expecting it right out there on 218 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 7: my phone. So when he was wanting to meet up 219 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 7: and I knew things were wrong, I felt like, well, 220 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 7: if I could give him anything that would make him happy, 221 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 7: and I wouldn't have to do physical you know, like 222 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 7: meet in person and do that kind of stuff, then 223 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 7: I will. So if I was drinking wine one night 224 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 7: and you know, binge watching shows or something, and he 225 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 7: texted me and at one point then requested me to 226 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 7: send him a picture, I felt like that was better 227 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 7: than actually getting together with him, right, And then I 228 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 7: remember saying to him the next day, like, you need 229 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 7: to delete that? Will you promised me you delete that now? 230 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 8: Are you surprised to know that he kept everything? 231 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 5: I mean he told me like, of course, of course, 232 00:12:59,320 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 5: you know. 233 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 7: But then in the back of my mind I had 234 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 7: a feeling, especially towards the end, that he did not 235 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 7: delete that kind of stuff really aggravates me. That was 236 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 7: personal and important things. Yes, that I made the wrong 237 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 7: decision to do, but in me asking him he should have. 238 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 5: Deleted those, like, I feel like that is not right 239 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 5: at all. 240 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 8: Well wait, let me ask you this. I just want 241 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 8: to go back. Did you guys sleep together? 242 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 5: Yes? Where in the bathroom at the bar. 243 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 7: And then there was another time when I was out 244 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 7: on my own with friends and he was kind of 245 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 7: pestering me for me to pick him up, and that 246 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 7: was another place. 247 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 8: This car. Yes, did you ever come to my house. 248 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 5: I came to your house once. 249 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 8: He invited a woman into my house. 250 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 5: He did, and I bet I wasn't the only one. 251 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 8: And so you just came into my house. 252 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 7: He took my hand and he took me upstairs. He 253 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 7: had things set up in the upper bedroom with like 254 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 7: candles and shit. That was the point where I couldn't 255 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 7: and I told him no. So I ended up staying 256 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 7: downstairs and we got. 257 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 5: Into an argument. 258 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 7: And that was one of the times toward the end 259 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 7: that I felt like I just couldn't do this because 260 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 7: of the regret that I had for what I was 261 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 7: doing to you and my family. 262 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 8: Well what did you think you were there for? 263 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 5: I don't know. He talked me into going. 264 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 7: I was just like, yeah, I'll come over quick whatever, 265 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 7: you know. I said, like, I don't feel like going 266 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 7: in your house, and I'm like, is somebody else home? 267 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 7: He said that you were traveling or something, and that's 268 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 7: when I was like, I can't. And along the way, 269 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 7: I think it was things like that situations he was 270 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 7: putting me into where I knew that it was going 271 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 7: past the point of no return, but I wasn't going 272 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 7: any farther. And then finally I just took a look 273 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 7: back and really started praying about it. And at that point, 274 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 7: it was almost like a dream, like I can't believe 275 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 7: what I did, what had happened. It was like what's 276 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 7: done is done. I ended up telling my husband on 277 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 7: my own without him even finding anything out, because it 278 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 7: was just eating at me. 279 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 8: So what happened after you told your husband? 280 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 7: It was one night and the kids were in bed, 281 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 7: and I ended up telling him at the table. I'm like, 282 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 7: I have something to tell you. I'm like, I did 283 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 7: something really horrible and he's like, did you have sex? 284 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 7: And I said yes, And that was the utmost hardest 285 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,359 Speaker 7: thing I've ever had to do. And he was very distraught, 286 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 7: very distraught, and it was really hard for a long time. 287 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 7: You know, our relationship is great now, and looking back, 288 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 7: I think it was that moment when I got a 289 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 7: text from somebody with the article that came out about 290 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 7: him going to jail for underage sex and stuff like that, 291 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 7: and I had no doubt, no doubt. I felt a 292 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 7: flood of emotion. Is that something I could have prevented? 293 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: You know? 294 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 7: But that's the moment in our relationship that we could 295 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 7: actually look at this in a different light other than 296 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 7: me just being a person that goes and does this. 297 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 7: I thought I was just a horrible person and this 298 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 7: is something that I sought out, and knowing that it's not, 299 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 7: I was blindly taken advantage of in a lot of 300 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 7: different ways. 301 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 6: Did us being friends ever give you pause or factor 302 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 6: into it? 303 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 7: I know we were associated with you guys, and we 304 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 7: were friends, but like, there wasn't too much entanglement in 305 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 7: our lives. It wasn't like we were going out every 306 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 7: weekend and we were doing things together. 307 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 5: And part of me looks back and wishes that would. 308 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 7: Have happened, because I think I would have been stronger 309 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 7: to resist, you know, those those passes by him. 310 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 6: What happened when your husband confronted and it's Spence about this. 311 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 7: Just yelling and screaming, and he didn't want me to 312 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 7: hear him, but I was trying to listen through the 313 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 7: event in the first floor to listen to him, Like 314 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 7: in the basement. He was livid, he was yelling, spitting, 315 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 7: I mean, he wanted to rip him apart. Still to 316 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 7: this day, does cannot ever ever forgive even though he's 317 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 7: a god loving person, can't ever ever forgive what had happened. 318 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 6: But at that point, like why didn't anybody come to me? 319 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 7: I guess I just knew that it was like your 320 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 7: fairy tale and stuff, and I guess at that point 321 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 7: I just wanted to just hide everything. 322 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 8: But then after that, you guys still kind of communicated. 323 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 8: Was that Spence kind of making that gesture? 324 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 5: Oh? 325 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 7: Absolutely, I mean, now that it was out to my husband, 326 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 7: I would have never I had to salvage everything that 327 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 7: I could. I mean, I wanted to meet up to 328 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 7: like talk to him about why and how many other 329 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 7: people and could he come clean with me? Because I 330 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 7: knew he was lying. And then I also wanted to 331 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 7: tell him, like you need to tell your wife or 332 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 7: else I'm going to and he avoided. 333 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 5: He always made an excuse not to get together. 334 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 8: The first voicemail that you left me, you said something 335 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 8: that stuck with me, and that was he made you 336 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 8: feel special and like you were the only one. 337 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 7: He made me feel that way but lied to my face. Yeah, 338 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 7: I felt like I knew him and trusted him. 339 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 5: Looking back, it was so stupid. It was so stupid. 340 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 7: I cannot believe I let somebody so far into my 341 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 7: mind mentally, and I think it was also the situation 342 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 7: that I was in, you know, with my husband working 343 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 7: a lot, and again not his fault at all, like 344 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 7: I should have known better as avoid of other things 345 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 7: I guess kind of in my life. He came and 346 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 7: he knew those were things I would tell him, and 347 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 7: he knew that he could. 348 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 5: Be right in there. 349 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 7: But my thing that boggled my mind was like, if 350 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 7: I was his only person, why would he always say like, well, 351 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 7: my wife can never find out or like I like things, 352 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 7: how I have them? Well, yeah, you do, because that's 353 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 7: your front, and it enables you to do this stuff, 354 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 7: enables you to go out and like encroach on other 355 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 7: women knowing that you're married, like nothing would ever happen. 356 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 8: Well, I mean you were right on. There were more women, 357 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 8: that's for sure. 358 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 5: You know. 359 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 7: I hate what happened all around. And I feel like 360 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 7: you're super strong, obviously way better than he is. And 361 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 7: I'm glad you found this out in the way that 362 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 7: you did. I'm glad you found it out so you 363 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 7: can live a really awesome life moving forward. 364 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 8: That's right. I mean, if one out of all the 365 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 8: women I found spoken up, you know, thank God for 366 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 8: the victim, the student who had the courage. 367 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 7: She even waited until later to come out right, like, 368 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 7: you're scared. First of all, you don't want to admit 369 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 7: that you did something horribly wrong. You don't want to 370 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 7: admit that you were taken advantage of. 371 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 8: Right. 372 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 7: You know, it's embarrassing, but people can't be afraid. 373 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 5: To be embarrassed. 374 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 7: You have to talk to somebody. 375 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 8: Are you surprised to hear that I found more women? 376 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 5: No, not at all, Absolutely not. 377 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 7: That's why when I came out and saw there's comments 378 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 7: about an underage girl and stuff like that, and people 379 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 7: being on his side, that pissed me off because I 380 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 7: sometimes wondered if he did that. You know, I was like, 381 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 7: all these girls probably think he's real cute at school 382 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 7: and stuff like. In the back of my mind, I 383 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 7: was like, hopefully he wouldn't do something like. 384 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 5: That, and then like that comes out. 385 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 7: I felt horrible. I felt mixed emotions. I felt bad 386 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 7: for the girl, I felt pissed off at him, I 387 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 7: felt sorry for you. I couldn't believe it actually came 388 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 7: out and happened, but I was happy it happened because 389 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 7: that got him. 390 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 5: If not to this day, he could still be doing 391 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 5: that crap. 392 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 7: But knowing that he kept all those things, that's somebody 393 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 7: with a major issue, major horrible, disgusting issue. He had you, 394 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 7: he had his kids, he had everything right in front 395 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 7: of him, and whatever it was, whatever was wrong with 396 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 7: him mentally fucked up or whatever, that is somebody with 397 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 7: an issue. So all along I felt like it was 398 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 7: me and that I was horrible and I did this, 399 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 7: I did this thing and made this horrible mistake. But 400 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 7: now I do realize that it is a victim type situation. 401 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 7: I'm sorry for what happened overall for me. You would 402 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 7: think I would know better, But exactly what happened to 403 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 7: the underage girl is what happened to the other women. 404 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 7: And you know what, there's probably so many women that 405 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 7: don't have remorse for what they did or what they 406 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 7: took part in. But I can tell you that I. 407 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 8: Do, and I know you do, and I really want 408 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 8: you to get past this. 409 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 7: I mean, I don't think about it every day now, 410 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 7: But of course, since you and I have come into 411 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 7: contact with each other over the past couple months here, 412 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 7: of course I've had like full on anxiety attacks and 413 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 7: I've had to like pop out out a van and 414 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 7: really try to get my head straight around everything. But 415 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 7: it makes me feel good for you saying that to me. 416 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 7: I can never be sorry enough to you. It was 417 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 7: never ever pointed at you. I knew you were in 418 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 7: this situation. But I can't even tell you how he 419 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 7: made it feel like there wasn't anything else, any barriers there, 420 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 7: and that was part of whatever he does and whatever 421 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 7: those types of people do well. 422 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 8: And I guess I was looking for, like, what was 423 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 8: that secret ingredient? And how did he get away with it? 424 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 8: How was he able to manage so much going on 425 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 8: at the same time. 426 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 5: I have no idea. 427 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 7: You teach, you coach, you have a wife that you 428 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 7: do things with, You guys had a business. How do 429 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 7: you do all these things? But then I would hear 430 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 7: him say like, I'm going to go away on my 431 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 7: army weekend or whatever, and I knew I was like, Okay, 432 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 7: how many states does he have people in that he's 433 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 7: counting on. 434 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 5: My biggest regret going back. 435 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 7: I mean, of course I would say for all this 436 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 7: not to happen, But my biggest regret is not saying 437 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 7: something right away, and I'll always regret that. I can't 438 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 7: ever not feel like that. But I mean definitely helps me. 439 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 7: I don't know if I've helped. 440 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 5: You at all. 441 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 8: Yes, you did, you really did. Thank you. But that's 442 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 8: also why I'm sharing my story. It's one of those 443 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 8: things that's like, no, no, no, that could never happen 444 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 8: to somebody I know, and it's like, wait, what how 445 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 8: do you navigate this? It's crazy. 446 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 3: I have a question like was your husband always on 447 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 3: his phone? 448 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 7: No? 449 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 4: I swear to God, No, I think about that all 450 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 4: the time. Was he sitting in bed, like texting all 451 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 4: night and things like that. 452 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 6: No. 453 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 3: I think a lot of it happened during the day. 454 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 3: Will never understand why she was able to tell her husband, 455 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: but telling you was different. Maybe she felt like that 456 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: was Spencer's responsibility. 457 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 4: I think I do hold her somewhat responsible for not 458 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 4: telling me because she could have. 459 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: And you would hope that the relationship and connection you 460 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 3: felt with someone would make them second guess their decisions. 461 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 4: Yes, that's another thing. It's different for some reason the 462 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 4: women who didn't know me that chose to do this, 463 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 4: But for a woman who knew me and saw me 464 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: a couple times a week, I just can't even imagine 465 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 4: doing that to somebody. 466 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 3: Is it hard? To know that people were just like 467 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 3: walking around knowing your life and your marriage and your 468 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 3: house old was something fundamentally different than what you knew. 469 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 5: It to be. 470 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's what it's so hard to wrap your 471 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 4: head around when your reality of the life you're leading 472 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 4: is one way, and then to think that it's really 473 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 4: not that. And there were people who knew it, you know. 474 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 4: I think there were people that did know me, maybe 475 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 4: not well, but certainly knew he had a wife. I 476 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 4: read so many correspondents with him and women and him 477 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 4: inviting them to the bar or saying it was so 478 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 4: good to see you at the bar last night, or 479 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 4: come see me at the bar tonight. So clearly this 480 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 4: was a place that I'm finding out now where he 481 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 4: used to get relationships. 482 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 3: I walked away feeling like, this is a person that 483 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 3: was really hurt and really into your ex husband. Because 484 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: I'm trying to put myself and someone choose and unless 485 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 3: I'm interested, I'm not noticing the hands from a customer 486 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: on his hand, I'm not noticing the subtle looks. I mean, 487 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: she was paying attention to him on a very deep level. 488 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: She was watching him. That just makes me feel like, 489 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 3: you know, she was really roped in. 490 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 4: I really think in her mind she had invested some 491 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 4: of herself into this relationship. 492 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 3: I'm just curious if you're like letting go of that 493 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 3: anger that you have towards her. 494 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 4: I do have a little more anger toward her because 495 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 4: she was a friend and she was doing this right 496 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 4: under my nose with my husband. I also appreciate, though, 497 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 4: that she was willing to get on the phone and 498 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 4: talk to me about it, so I can let this go, 499 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 4: because honestly, I want her life to be okay. I 500 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 4: hope that the conversation maybe gave her some closure as well, 501 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 4: and hopefully by letting her know that he was like 502 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 4: this with other people, it helps her a little bit 503 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 4: to understand. 504 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 3: And you know that this is a pretty sick person. 505 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: She's not the only person that fell for it. 506 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, at the end of the day, it was Spence 507 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 4: that hurt me, But that part of being mad at 508 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 4: the women, I just don't carry that his behavior was 509 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 4: so out of control that it could have been anybody. 510 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 3: On the next episode of Betrayal, I had. 511 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 9: Never ever looked at her in any inappropriate way, not 512 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 9: at all. In fact, probably for the last ten to 513 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 9: fifteen years, I have not looked at any teen girl 514 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 9: as anything but that a teen girl. I'd gotten older. 515 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: There were no fantasies. 516 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: If you'd like to reach out to the Betrayal team, 517 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: email us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's 518 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. Betrayal is a production 519 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in 520 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by 521 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me 522 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Kerry Hartman, also produced 523 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: by Ben Fetterman. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and 524 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: Jessica Crinchick. Special thanks to voice actors Todd Gans and 525 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: Rocky Ault. Sound editing and mixing done by Matt Taveccio. 526 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: Betrayal's theme was composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided 527 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: by my Music and For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 528 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.