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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Andrea Gunning. Our season of weekly stories is

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Speaker 1: coming to an end, but don't worry. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: soon with more episodes. So if you have a story

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Speaker 1: of your own that you'd like to share on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: email us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot com. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, we want to do something new and exciting.

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Speaker 1: This month, we're taking short creative essays submissions from listeners.

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Speaker 1: The theme is resilience in the face of a devastating betrayal.

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Speaker 1: We want to hear the story of how you healed

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Speaker 1: scars and all. Here's the catch. The limit is a

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Speaker 1: thousand words. If your story stands out, it might be

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Speaker 1: featured in a bonus episode. Please save your submission as

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Speaker 1: a PDF and email it to Betrayal pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com. Okay, now onto the episode.

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Speaker 2: If he can lie about that, he can lie about anything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he used his dead mother's name, he used

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Speaker 2: his dead father's name, he used I think his aunt,

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Speaker 2: he used my name, all these people. It was absolutely

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Speaker 2: crazy making.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 1: change everything.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I've always craved drama, and I got it. I

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Speaker 2: got it. That's Abby Ellen.

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Speaker 1: She's an independent journalist where outlets like The New York

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Speaker 1: Times in Washington Post.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm in my fifties and I have been a

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Speaker 2: freelance writer since I'm like twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Storytelling comes naturally to her.

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Speaker 2: Even as a kid, I was interested in people's story

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Speaker 2: I was interested in gossip. I was interested in people's lives.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to know how things work. And I

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Speaker 2: also was always interested in getting to the bottom of things.

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Speaker 1: To say, she's curious as an understatement. When she was

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Speaker 1: in elementary school, Abby was on a children's show called

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Speaker 1: Romper Room. It was popular in the nineteen seventies. On

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Speaker 1: the show, the host would hold up a magic mirror

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Speaker 1: and through it she would pretend to see straight into

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Speaker 1: living rooms across the country. She'd named dozens of children

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Speaker 1: who were watching the show. Kids at home thought she

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Speaker 1: was talking directly to them through the mirror. As a kid,

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Speaker 1: Abby knew the magic mirror was faked, and when she

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Speaker 1: was on the show, she was determined to figure.

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Speaker 2: Out how well they would put the kids in the

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Speaker 2: control room and you could see all of the monitors

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Speaker 2: and you could see what was happening, and I remember

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Speaker 2: pointing to that with the kid next to me. I

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Speaker 2: was like, check it out, like there's no magic, and

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Speaker 2: he was really upset. He was like, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to know that, you know, And I was like, see,

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Speaker 2: I got to the truth.

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Speaker 1: Fifty years later, she's still that same person.

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Speaker 3: I hate magic tricks.

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Speaker 2: I hate going to magic shows. I need to know

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Speaker 2: how they do things.

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Speaker 1: That dogged curiosity has motivated Abby's work for decades. When

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Speaker 1: she first started her journalism career in New York.

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Speaker 2: City, I could have gotten a job like in The

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Speaker 2: Devil Worst Prada.

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Speaker 3: I could have gotten a job as an assistant to

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Speaker 3: an editor.

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Speaker 2: But I thought, what am I going to learn about

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Speaker 2: writing from picking up some of these dry cleaning Nothing?

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Speaker 2: What am I going to learn about like from faxing

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Speaker 2: their correspondence nothing. I didn't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: Instead, she got her start writing for women's magazines. It

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Speaker 1: was the nineties when magazines still ruled the media landscape,

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Speaker 1: and Abby had to start at the bottom.

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Speaker 2: Of the ladder. The women's magazines had you do like quizzes,

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Speaker 2: is he a jerk? Are you a control freak? I

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Speaker 2: mean those kind of things. I didn't give a shit.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I hated that stuff, and I just got

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Speaker 2: terrified that I was going to get stuck doing that.

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Speaker 1: She wanted something more hard hitting, so she started cold

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Speaker 1: pitch stories to The New York Times, and she finally

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Speaker 1: got a story accepted. It was an expose on simulated

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Speaker 1: military boot camps for civilians.

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Speaker 2: And I wrote a big story about that. It was

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Speaker 2: a full page of The New York Times. I framed

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Speaker 2: it and I thought, that's that never going to happen again. Well,

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Speaker 2: the editor who I wrote that for called me up

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Speaker 2: one day and he said, we're starting a column. He

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Speaker 2: wanted Abby to write for it.

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Speaker 1: So for the next five years, she wrote a column

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Speaker 1: about young people and money for the Business section of

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Speaker 1: the New York Times.

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Speaker 2: She was in her late twenties.

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Speaker 1: The stars were aligning for her career and she was

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Speaker 1: building a life for herself.

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Speaker 2: My mother is really a super feminist and has always

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Speaker 2: been profoundly independent and has always been like, what women

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Speaker 2: need is their own money, no matter what, they all

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Speaker 2: need their own money, you know. So she wanted me

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Speaker 2: to always have my own space.

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Speaker 1: On her mother's advice, Abby bought her first apartment. It

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Speaker 1: was a loft in New York City. She had everything

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Speaker 1: she wanted. Even dating came easily for Abby.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, men were everywhere, men were everywhere.

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Speaker 1: In her twenties, her relationships usually ended because he was

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Speaker 1: more into her and she was into him. I, you know,

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Speaker 1: had my boyfriend, then we broke up, and then I

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Speaker 1: had other boyfriends.

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Speaker 2: And I continued to work, and I continued to travel,

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Speaker 2: and I kind of never really wanted to get married,

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Speaker 2: per se, that wasn't my agenda. Didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: tethered to somebody all the time.

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Speaker 1: In her thirties, she dated more seriously, but none of

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Speaker 1: the guys were quite right.

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Speaker 3: One was a guy on me in Peru.

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Speaker 2: He was a furniture maker and he was great, but

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Speaker 2: that didn't work out. A couple guys in the.

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Speaker 4: Theater, I mean just different nice. I mean they were fine,

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Speaker 4: they were fine people. But I wanted something that mattered.

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Speaker 4: I wanted something that mattered.

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Speaker 1: Abby had traveled the world, reported for prestigious publications, and

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Speaker 1: made friends in every corner of the city, but there

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Speaker 1: was one thing she still hadn't experienced.

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Speaker 2: Again, I didn't care if I got married, but I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be mount in love. She wanted to be

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Speaker 2: madly in love.

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Speaker 1: By the time she was forty, she started looking for

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Speaker 1: love in new places.

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Speaker 2: If you've been single little while, you know, sometimes you're

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Speaker 2: just like, oh God, maybe I should go out with

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Speaker 2: somebody who I never thought i'd be with, just because

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Speaker 2: maybe I'd been barking up the wrong tree all this time.

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Speaker 1: After a string of relationships with struggling artists, she thought

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Speaker 1: she'd try something more traditional. First, she went with the

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Speaker 1: conservative Wall Street type.

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Speaker 2: Then she thought, I'm Jewish. I was brought up Jewish.

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Speaker 2: I thought, I've always dated non Jewish guys. Maybe I

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Speaker 2: need to be with somebody who's Jewish. Maybe that's what

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Speaker 2: I need.

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Speaker 1: On a lark, her friend recommended a psychic. Apparently she

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Speaker 1: had great insights on love.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, Carmela is psyching from younger, that's what she said.

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Speaker 2: I like.

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Speaker 1: But Carmela saw something in Abby's future, a man.

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Speaker 2: And she was like, you're going to meet somebody you're

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Speaker 2: gonna move. His first initial is going to be RP,

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Speaker 2: B or D and all when he's gonna wear a uniform.

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Speaker 2: And I said, I don't know anybody in uniform other

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Speaker 2: than the FedEx guy.

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Speaker 3: And she was like, no, that's not a FedEx guy.

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Speaker 1: Around the same time, Abby was working on a piece

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Speaker 1: for The Times.

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Speaker 2: I was working on an article for the New York

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Speaker 2: Times about detox diets and whether or not they had

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Speaker 2: any validity or whether they were just kind of bullshit.

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Speaker 2: And somebody suggested I call this guy who worked in

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Speaker 2: Beverly Hills, California, who was a doctor there.

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Speaker 3: He had written some articles or studies about detox diets.

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Speaker 1: This Beverly Hills doctor gave Abby a great quote for

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Speaker 1: her article. We're going to call him Richard.

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Speaker 3: I quoted him and we had a nice conversation and

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Speaker 3: that was the end of it.

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Speaker 1: A few months later she had to call Richard again

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Speaker 1: to fact check the article.

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Speaker 3: And I said, are you still in Beverly Hills And

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Speaker 3: he said, no, I'm in the Navy.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Navy doc.

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Speaker 1: Richard had been a Navy seal in his twenties, then

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Speaker 1: left to go to medical school. After decades of private

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Speaker 1: medical practice, he rejoined the Navy to work on special projects.

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Speaker 2: He was working on opening up a hospital for kids

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Speaker 2: with cancer in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Abby wanted a new beat. She wanted

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Speaker 1: to report on international relations.

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Speaker 2: I was looking to do something different to expand my career.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do international reporting, and even if possible,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do war correspondence.

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Speaker 1: Richard was a good source, someone who might have stories

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Speaker 1: and connections she would need.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, tell me, bet you know, keeping posted

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Speaker 2: on how this goes, this is right up my alley,

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Speaker 2: and he did.

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Speaker 3: He capped keeping me posted. He kept telling me what

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Speaker 3: was going on.

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Speaker 1: At first it was regular updates about his job in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: And then we began talking more and more.

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Speaker 1: They started writing to each other every day, and she

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Speaker 1: learned more about Richard's personal life.

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Speaker 3: Apparently he had been divorced since I met him.

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Speaker 2: His two kids lived in California, and he was liddy

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Speaker 2: in Jacksonville, and he was going to move to Washington.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, well, isn't that ironic because I was

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Speaker 2: going to move to Washington too to go to grad school.

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Speaker 1: Abby had just been accepted to an international relations master's program.

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Speaker 1: It was in Washington, d C. Where Richard was headed next.

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Speaker 1: By this point, their conversations veered into flirtations. So when

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Speaker 1: they found out they were both moving to the same.

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Speaker 2: City, it seemed almost. You know where there's a word

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Speaker 2: in Hebrew beshert, which means meant to be, And I thought, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is meant to be.

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Speaker 1: Their flirtation expanded into late night phone calls and surprise deliveries.

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Speaker 2: And he called when he said he would, and he

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Speaker 2: sent flowers. And he wasn't like a suffer bring artists

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Speaker 2: and paint splattered jeans. You know, he was really a

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Speaker 2: good guy. Richard was mature and accomplished. He was a doctor.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this was the guy she'd been waiting for. I

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Speaker 2: was forty two, so I wasn't a kid, and he

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Speaker 2: was fifty eight, so he wasn't a kid.

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Speaker 3: But it didn't matter because he was nice to me,

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Speaker 3: and he was good to me.

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Speaker 1: After months of talking, have you emailed him a poem?

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Speaker 2: So I thought, all right, I can woo. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: send it to him.

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Speaker 1: She knew this poem was his favorite.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to read it. It's very short. This is

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Speaker 2: just to say by William Carlos Williams. I had eaten

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Speaker 2: the plums that were in the ice box in which

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Speaker 2: you were probably saving for breakfast. Forgive me. They were delicious,

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Speaker 2: so sweet and so cold, and I sent it to him,

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Speaker 2: and he wrought me back three words, I love you.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, all right, it's a little fast, but okay.

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Speaker 1: She'd only been talking to Richard for a few months,

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Speaker 1: but when she got his reply, she smiled. Richard was

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Speaker 1: scheduled to be in New York the following month. Abby

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Speaker 1: hadn't started school yet and was still in town, so

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Speaker 1: they decided to meet in person for the first time.

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Speaker 3: He said, I've got to be in New York to

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Speaker 3: give his talk at the eun So I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be wearing my outfit, my navy uniform, and he said,

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Speaker 3: let's go somewhere celebratory.

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Speaker 1: He made a reservation for them at the Four Seasons restaurant.

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Speaker 1: It's now closed, but in the early two thousands it

228
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Speaker 1: was one of the most glamorous date spots in New York.

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Speaker 2: It was a very CNBC kind of place. There was

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Speaker 2: a giant pool in the middle of it. Then it

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00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,079
Speaker 2: was just very expensive and swanky and ritzy, and it.

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Speaker 3: Was just kind of the place to be.

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Speaker 1: On the night of their date, Richard met her in

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Speaker 1: the lobby, wearing his white Navy officer uniform. As he

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Speaker 1: walked towards her, she realized this was the man in uniform,

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Speaker 1: the one the psychic had foreseen. Richard even brought her

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Speaker 1: a gift.

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Speaker 3: He brings what is called a cover, but it's a

239
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Speaker 3: navy cap.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's the hat I brought you one, he said.

241
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Speaker 1: They walked into dinner hand in hand, Abby wearing his

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Speaker 1: white navy cap.

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Speaker 3: And at dinner, he was so funny and he was charming,

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Speaker 3: and he was good to me, and he was charismatic, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, he kind of wound me. He was wooing me,

246
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Speaker 2: and I like that. It was after dating all sorts

247
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Speaker 2: of shit has it was nice to be with somebody who,

248
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Speaker 2: you know, seemed to be who they said they were.

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Speaker 1: That was the beginning of Richard's regular visits to New

250
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Speaker 1: York to take Abby out on romantic dates.

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Speaker 3: He comes to visit for a weekend or maybe overnight.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he always reading me with a big kiss,

253
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Speaker 2: and he'd tell me how beautiful I was.

254
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Speaker 1: When he met Abby's friends, he impressed them too.

255
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Speaker 2: He cared about people, He cared about the world. He

256
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,680
Speaker 2: was always picking up tabs, he was always doing things

257
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Speaker 2: that made people really like him.

258
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Speaker 1: Richard had two kids by his first wife, and even

259
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Speaker 1: though he lived apart from them. He was still a

260
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Speaker 1: family man.

261
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Speaker 2: He was very close to his son, so that that

262
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Speaker 2: was nice and daughter. He talked to his kid, his

263
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Speaker 2: son all the time.

264
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Speaker 1: And then there was his illustrious military career. He was

265
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Speaker 1: constantly traveling for work.

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Speaker 2: He always said that he had certain things that he

267
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Speaker 2: did that he wouldn't be able to tell me about,

268
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,559
Speaker 2: and then he would often go off on these sort

269
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Speaker 2: of secret missions and he couldn't tell me what he

270
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:47,080
Speaker 2: was doing, and I was kind of intrigued by that.

271
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Speaker 1: Abby was the kid who needed to know how the

272
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Speaker 1: magic mirror worked, and now with Richard, she wanted to

273
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Speaker 1: know about his classified military projects.

274
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Speaker 2: It drove me mad that I didn't know what he

275
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 2: was doing, and a friend of mine said, well, that's

276
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Speaker 2: obviously a lesson. You need to learn that you can't

277
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Speaker 2: know everything.

278
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Speaker 1: Her intrigue turned to concern when Richard began having horrible nightmares.

279
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Speaker 2: He would just have these screaming nightmares, and so he

280
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 2: had to sleep with the lights on and the TV on.

281
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: When she asked, he brushed it off. All he would

282
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Speaker 1: say is that he had bad memories, things from the

283
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 1: military that he couldn't talk about.

284
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Speaker 2: I thought badly, and I thought something must have happened,

285
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 2: but I didn't know. I didn't know what it was.

286
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: Before long, his career began bumping up against their relationship.

287
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Speaker 2: Anytime he broke any plan, which we began to do

288
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 2: pretty regularly, it was it's a secret mission. I can't

289
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 2: tell you anything more about it. That's it.

290
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Speaker 1: Abby nicknamed him the Commander. It was a joke at first,

291
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 1: but it stuck because Richard couldn't seem to escape his career.

292
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Speaker 2: The commander told me that we were being followed by

293
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Speaker 2: the Secret Service.

294
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 1: This was jarring for Abby and she demanded a reason

295
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 1: why they were being followed. To her surprise, the commander

296
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 1: began revealing some details about his career.

297
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Speaker 2: He said that he had been a doctor at Guantanamo.

298
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Speaker 1: He had been recruited to be the head doctor for

299
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Speaker 1: prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. This was the mid two thousands,

300
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: at the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

301
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,479
Speaker 1: The commander explained that there was intense infighting with personnel

302
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 1: at Guantanamo. It had to do with classified information that

303
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 1: wasn't being delivered up the chain. That's why he was

304
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 1: being protected by men in black SUVs.

305
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 2: And he said, when I was at Guantanamo, all these

306
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 2: guys are after me. They hate me, and they threatened

307
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 2: me and my family. So my loved ones are being

308
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 2: followed by the Secret Service.

309
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Speaker 1: Abby tried to play it down to act casual, but

310
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Speaker 1: this was a big disclosure.

311
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 2: And I remember I said to him, well, you know,

312
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 2: next time, why don't you ask them if they can

313
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 2: give me a ride so I don't have to call taxis.

314
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Speaker 2: It was just like, this is absurd.

315
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Speaker 1: She wasn't even sure if she believed his story about

316
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 1: the Secret Service. But then one day his son called

317
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Speaker 1: from California.

318
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Speaker 2: And there was a car outside and said, Dad, is

319
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 2: that your guys? Why are they outside the house? So

320
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 2: I remember, I thought something really must have happened.

321
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 1: Now Abby needed answers. What had really happened at Guantanamo.

322
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Speaker 2: I need to know everything.

323
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Speaker 1: Eventually Richard confided.

324
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Speaker 2: In her and he said that one of his patients

325
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:51,000
Speaker 2: was a very high level terrorist. And I said who,

326
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 2: and he said Osama bin Laden And I said that's insane,

327
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,280
Speaker 2: and he said no, it's not. And he began to

328
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Speaker 2: list all the physical problems that have been Lauden had.

329
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Speaker 1: This was two thousand and eight. At the time, the

330
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 1: military claim to be actively searching for bin Laden, so

331
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Speaker 1: him being held at Guantanamo just didn't make sense.

332
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Speaker 3: And I said to him, that is a stupid thing

333
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 3: to to tell a person.

334
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 2: I said, that's also not possible because the president, it

335
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,560
Speaker 2: was Bush at the time, that he was never let

336
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 2: this happen without getting it out because it was a

337
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 2: big deal and you know, it would have helped Republicans,

338
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,919
Speaker 2: so he would never have been quite about that if

339
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 2: he knew where bin Laden was. And he said, no,

340
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 2: the President doesn't know. I said, that's impossible. He said,

341
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,959
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that they don't know. And

342
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, Okay, this is insane, but maybe here's

343
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:56,400
Speaker 2: a story here.

344
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 1: Abby's new boyfriend, Richard, made some pretty surprising claims, biggest

345
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 1: of all that Asama bin Laden was being held at

346
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 1: Guantanamo and that he had treated bin Laden for medical issues.

347
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 1: This was the early two thousands and bin Laden was

348
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: one of the biggest fugitives on the planet, so Richard's

349
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,439
Speaker 1: story was hard to believe. But Abby knew for a

350
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: fact that the commander worked in the Navy with a very.

351
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 2: High security clearance.

352
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 1: At that she'd met some of his colleagues, so like

353
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 1: a good journalist, she wanted to verify the commander's claim.

354
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 2: I was trying to do my own checkups because I

355
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 2: was feeling crazy and I couldn't call up the CIA

356
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 2: and say, hey, do you have this guy on your payroll?

357
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't do that.

358
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,879
Speaker 1: So she started asking around using vage details.

359
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 2: My brother in law said that doesn't make sense because

360
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 2: he was in the Navy, and he said he wouldn't

361
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 2: tell you about that. I had another friend who said

362
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,199
Speaker 2: the same thing. They're not supposed to tell you.

363
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 1: She doubted the story, but wasn't prepared to write it

364
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: off entirely. Even if there was a remote possibility it

365
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: could be true, it would be the biggest story in

366
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,439
Speaker 1: the world, and as someone who wanted to be a

367
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,400
Speaker 1: war reporter, that was undeniably enticing. She hit a dead

368
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 1: end trying to fact check the bin laden story, so

369
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,879
Speaker 1: instead she decided to fact check Richard. She started with

370
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 1: one time when he said.

371
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 2: That he had a vault full of medals for operations

372
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 2: that didn't really exist. They were unofficial, you know, like

373
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 2: homelandy kind of things that you're not supposed to know about.

374
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: Abby asked her new professors. If this could be true.

375
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 3: I would ask my teachers, you know, is that possible?

376
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 2: They said, yeah, absolutely this.

377
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: If that checked out, Richard's other classified projects could exist

378
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: as well. Abby realized she could in fact check the

379
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: bin Laden story, and after Richard shared that he never

380
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: talked about it again. He wanted a relationship separate from work.

381
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: After all, the rest of his life is pretty tame.

382
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: I met his family, I met his son, I met

383
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 2: his brother, met his aunt, I met some friends, I

384
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 2: met everybody, you know, so it just seems kind of normal.

385
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: And he met her family. Abby introduced him to her mom.

386
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 2: He was a Jewish doctor. What's not to like.

387
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: As their lives began to merge, Abby was ready to

388
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: bring up a big topic of her own.

389
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,479
Speaker 2: I wanted to adopt, and I had said to him

390
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: at some point, listen, I'm gonna want a kid.

391
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:50,880
Speaker 1: When she told Richard this.

392
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: Basically he was willing to do it. He said, I

393
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 2: love you, I'm in love with you. I'll do anything

394
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 2: you want. I'm gonna ask you to marry me, So

395
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 2: whatever makes you happy makes me happy.

396
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: That conversation brought their relationship to a new level. It

397
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: was like an unspoken marriage proposal.

398
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 2: I'm forty two, he's fifty eight. We're not kids anymore.

399
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: And we would discuss that.

400
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: He said, you know, his father always said when you

401
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 3: know your no, and I've heard that before.

402
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: So then he began he would visit me in New

403
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: York and he would come and he would say, ah,

404
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 2: I just went to Debiers and I was looking. I

405
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 2: was looking at rings there and I thought, okay, great,

406
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 2: that's cool. But one day he says to me, you know, Abby,

407
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 2: I'm really upset. I can't afford a thirty thousand dollars ring.

408
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: Forty thousand dollars ring. You know. I said, I don't

409
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 2: need a forty thousand dollars ring, which is true. I didn't.

410
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: After six months together, Richard officially proposed. She said, yes,

411
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: it's true. The ring was nothing extravagant, but they both

412
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 1: knew they wanted to be to again. And then, keeping

413
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: with their low key attitude, Abby began planning for a

414
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: small wedding maybe the next year. They weren't in a rush.

415
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: I had never really expected to get married. That wasn't

416
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: my goal, so it was very odd buying a dress.

417
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 2: I decided I would just do something very small, like

418
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: a dinner or something, just something chill.

419
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: They made plans to move in together in Washington, DC.

420
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 2: Eventually we found a place at the Watergate, which you know,

421
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: was obviously very famous.

422
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: The apartment was being paid for by the Navy. But

423
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 1: even still, Abby didn't like the Watergate or DC.

424
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: It was just sort of bleak and the Watergate was empty,

425
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: and I didn't find Washington to be an especially hospitable town.

426
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: It didn't help that the commander was always traveling for work.

427
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes go in Afghanistan, sometimes going to Iraq. Sometimes he's

428
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: doing all these things that I can't.

429
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: You didn't I'll tell you when there's a secure line,

430
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 3: is what he would say.

431
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: And when he came home, he struggled to keep his

432
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: eyes open.

433
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 2: He's a drag, like falling asleep early. He'll fall asleep

434
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 2: at dinner. We're at dinner at like six o'clock and

435
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: he's at the table like falling asleep.

436
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 1: She chalked it up to him being a bit older

437
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: and traveling so much for work, but Abby still had

438
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: her mindset on the future.

439
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: Well, I had put don money to adopt by myself,

440
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 3: so I was all going to do that.

441
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 2: As time went on.

442
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: Richard wasn't so into the idea.

443
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: Anytime he talked about adoption, he always would say, you know,

444
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: I'll do it if that's what you really want to do.

445
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: But a lot of those kids really have problems. And

446
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: I thought that was a really callous thing to say.

447
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 2: I thought that was awful because I know a lot

448
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 2: of kids who were not adopted who had problems.

449
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: He was changing. He wasn't the accommodating and doting man

450
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: she'd met. That guy was rarely around.

451
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: And one day I was talking about something about getting

452
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: married and we didn't even have a date, but he

453
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: started breaking down. He's like, I'm so overwhelmed. We have

454
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: to push the wedding back.

455
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: Maybe he was stressed out with work, or maybe he

456
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: was having cold feet. Shortly after this conversation, Abby confided

457
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: in her mom.

458
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: And I told her about the bin laden thing, and

459
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 3: she said, something's not.

460
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: Right to Abby. She said, that doesn't make sense, I said,

461
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: and I got mad at her. I said, why isn't

462
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 2: it possible that there are things that you don't know

463
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: that we don't know and we don't know the answer yet.

464
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: And I got so mad at her. I was like,

465
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: you're so suspicious.

466
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: Abby was defensive in the moment, but her mom's suspicion

467
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: rubbed off on her.

468
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: So then I kind of went back and would ask

469
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: him questions, you know, more targeted.

470
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: And he would get mad at me.

471
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: One night, at dinner with Abby's parents, the commander made

472
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: a big show of complimenting a meal.

473
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: We're at a restaurant and he raves about the Brussels sprouts. Right,

474
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 2: these are the best Brussels sprouts ever. Okay, my parents,

475
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: that's nice. They didn't make it, they didn't care.

476
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: But as soon as they were alone, he told Abby

477
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: the exact opposite.

478
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: And he said, that's I think the worst meal I've

479
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: ever eaten.

480
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: And I just thought to myself, what I said, Why

481
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: did you lie? Why did you lie? They didn't care,

482
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 2: he said, I wanted it to make them feel good.

483
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: It just was too discordant. You can't verify the CIA,

484
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: you can't verify navy seal, you can't do that. But

485
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: that was something tangible that I could verify, and I

486
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: just thought, I can't do this anymore. I just can't.

487
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: I can't do this. This is insane. If he can

488
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: lie about that, he can lie about anything that.

489
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: Small lie about the Brussels sprouts broke something inside of Abby.

490
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: It was proof that he felt the need to compulsively lie.

491
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: She was disgusted with him, but she wasn't prepared to

492
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: call off the wedding. That was until a few weeks later.

493
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: It was Christmas and we were spending it with his

494
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: brother and sister in law in their big house in Georgetown,

495
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: and his son and daughter were there, and I overheard

496
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: the son saying, what's that ring on Abby's finger?

497
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 3: Is that from you?

498
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 2: And I didn't hear the response, but I remember thinking

499
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: to myself, this kid doesn't know that we're getting married.

500
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: The son had no idea that he had proposed to me.

501
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: Richard had told Abby that his kids do and that

502
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: they were happy about it.

503
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 2: The commander told me that when he told his son

504
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: that he had proposed to me, his son said, well,

505
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 2: what took you so long?

506
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: And now she had proved of a very consequential lie.

507
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: You're lying to me and I can't there's something I'm done.

508
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm out of here.

509
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: That night, she called off the engagement, and the timing

510
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: turned out to be pretty convenient.

511
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: About two weeks later, he came over and he said, listen.

512
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: The Navy, who was apparently paying for the apartment, needs

513
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: the apartment, and they're shipping me out somewhere else. I'm

514
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: leaving Washington, so we have to pack up everything and

515
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: get out.

516
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: So Abby packed up and moved back to New York.

517
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: And I didn't know what I was going to do

518
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: because I again was going to school. I ended up

519
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: commuting to Washington from New York City and I finished

520
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: my degree.

521
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: In the wake of the breakup, Happy second guest yourself.

522
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: I felt bad.

523
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 3: I felt maybe I overreacted.

524
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: You know, every time I would interrogate him, he'd be like, well,

525
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: that's why you're single, because you always question and you

526
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: don't trust and you interrogate. That's why. That's why you've

527
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: been singles all this time. And I thought, well, maybe

528
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: that's right, you know, maybe that's right.

529
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: A few months after the breakup, she was in DC

530
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: for school and one night she was in a cab

531
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: driving by the watergate.

532
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: And the light was still was on in the apartment,

533
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: and I called him. I said, are you you in

534
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: the apartment? He said, you know, it was a comedy bearers.

535
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: I got everything moved, and everything was in storage, and

536
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: everything was great, and I was ready to be relocated,

537
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: and then the Navy said, no, you got to move

538
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: back into the apartment. You got to stay in Washington.

539
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: We're keeping you here. So remember I'm Nancy true.

540
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: I'd said, well, I need to pick up my cookbooks

541
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 2: that are in the apartment.

542
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: I left the cookbooks, so she told the cab driver

543
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: to pull over. She wanted to investigate.

544
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: I didn't have a key, and I said to the doorman,

545
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 2: I'd like to go up to the apartment, and the

546
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: doorman said, you're not allowed up.

547
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: I have a note, Abby Ellen is not allowed up.

548
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: So I called the commander. I said, wow, what's up

549
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: with that? Like, why was I there was specifically a note?

550
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: And he said, oh, somebody was assaulted in the buildings,

551
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: so they're being really careful about who they let in.

552
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: I said, I don't believe you.

553
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: She told Richard she needed to get a few things

554
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: she left behind, so we let her out.

555
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 5: Up.

556
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: I looked in the house and the cookbooks were exactly

557
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: where I had left them.

558
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: It wasn't just the cookbooks.

559
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: His baseball glove was exactly where it had been when

560
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: I left, and there was a sliver of soap in

561
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: exactly the same place, the same sliver that had been

562
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: there when I left. And I looked at him and

563
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: I said.

564
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 3: You didn't move and he said, oh, yes, I did.

565
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: There was no way he moved out of the apartment

566
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: and put a tiny, used up sliver of soap back

567
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: in the exact same place, stuck to the same bath tile.

568
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: And I thought, you're nuts, And that was it. That

569
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: was it. I didn't really talk to him after that.

570
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: She knew he was a liar, but how big of

571
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: a liar She wouldn't find out for another year and

572
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: a half.

573
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: And then I got a phone call. It's a two

574
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: two area code. The only two two area code I

575
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: knew was the Commanders, So I thought, okay, I don't

576
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: know why he's calling. And I picked it up and

577
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: it was Special Agent Dan Ryan with NCIS.

578
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: Abby hadn't talked to Richard in over a year. When

579
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: a DC number cold called her, she assumed it was him,

580
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: but to her surprise, it was a special agent with NCIS,

581
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

582
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 6: And he says, there's a doctor who's writing prescriptions for

583
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 6: narcotics for vicodin, and your name is one of the

584
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 6: names he's been using.

585
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: Abby's name had shown up on a list of falsified

586
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: narcotics prescriptions, scripts written by a Navy doctor named Richard.

587
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 3: I said what, and he said, yeah, he's been writing

588
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: prescriptions for drugs.

589
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: Do you know him? You have a prescription? And I said, no,

590
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: I know him, and I do not have a prescription

591
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: for Vicadin. You know, I prefer valuume. I mean.

592
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: The phone call didn't upset Abby. In fact, she was

593
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: excited because maybe she was finally going to get answers

594
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: about Richard.

595
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: I thought, maybe this is the culmination. Everything's kind of

596
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: coming to a head. CIA and Navy Seal and all that.

597
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: You know, everything is just coming together.

598
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: It turned out Richard wasn't working with Special Forces on

599
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: secret missions. He was actually a Navy doctor working at

600
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: the Pentagon.

601
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: But while he was there.

602
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: People he worked at the Pentagon he had used their

603
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 3: names to forge drugs.

604
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: He forged hundreds of opioid prescriptions using the names of

605
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: his coworkers and his family.

606
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: He used his dead mother's name, he used his dead

607
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: father's name, he used I think his aunt, he used

608
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: my name. All these people.

609
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: He'd been caught filling scripts at the Pentagon's pharmacy. It

610
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: was a brazen scheme. What was he doing with all

611
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: those painkillers?

612
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: I asked if he was selling and Dan Ryan said no,

613
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: we have no evidence of that.

614
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: Presumably Richard was taking the pills himself, at least that's

615
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: what he later claimed to a judge. Abby thought back

616
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: to dinners with the Commander, the ones where he was

617
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: falling asleep at the table. In hindsight, that was her

618
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: only clue that Richard could have been taking opioids.

619
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: So why kicked into journalist's mode.

620
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: She tracked down Richard's ex wife and gave her a call.

621
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: His ex wife knew Richard had a girl friend, but

622
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't Abby. She was one who told me about

623
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: the girlfriend. Abby would call one woman who told her

624
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: about another. It was like a phone tree of Richard's

625
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: ex girlfriends. That's how she found a woman who'd been

626
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: engaged to Richard at the same time Abby started dating.

627
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: Him, and her name was Christine.

628
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: She was a doctor, She was awesome, and he proposed

629
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: to her right.

630
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 5: Around the time he started beginning corresponding with me, and

631
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 5: he one day said to her, I've got to go

632
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 5: off on a secret mission.

633
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: I'll call you when I come back, and he never

634
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: came back.

635
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: Christine never knew why Richard disappeared. Abby had the other

636
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: half of the story, and.

637
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: The secret mission was Operation Abby.

638
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: But Richard's romantic con took an even darker turn. The

639
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: last woman he'd been seeing was named Gail. Richard had

640
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: been her college boyfriend. When Gail was diagnosed with breast

641
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: cancer in her sixties, he reappeared she was getting divorced.

642
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: He had reached out to her, and.

643
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 6: You know, and I never stopped loving you after thirty years,

644
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 6: blah blah blah, all this stuff.

645
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: He swept Gail off her feet. He even claimed he

646
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: could help her beat cancer. After all, he was a doctor.

647
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: He was helping manage her cancer, but she was one

648
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: of the names he was using to get narcotics as well.

649
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: Gail was the last woman Richard kahnned before he got caught.

650
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: And then I called up Gail, who was basically was

651
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 2: dying at the time. She had cancer. She had breast cancer.

652
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: When NCIS informed Gail about the fraudulent prescriptions in her name,

653
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: she was so angry she flipped on Richard immediately.

654
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 5: She wore a wire and he admitted that he had

655
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 5: been forging signatures and everything he admitted to her, and

656
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 5: she got them in trouble.

657
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: Gail passed away shortly after that. Her story is the

658
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 1: one Abby still thinks about. If there is a hero here,

659
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: she says, it's Gail. Richard ultimately pled guilty to two

660
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: felony charges of prescription fraud. In his sentencing hearing, he

661
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: told a judge that he'd become addicted while he struggled

662
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: to cope with his girlfriend's terminal cancer diagnosis. Between that

663
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: and his history of military service, the judge went easy

664
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: on him.

665
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 2: He was sentenced to I think two years in one day.

666
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: After Abby found out about Richard's crimes, she began parsing

667
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: out every lie he ever told her. Ben Lawden, Richard

668
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: never treated him at Guantanamo. The Secret Service wasn't following

669
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: him or his kids. He had never been a Navy

670
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: seal because Abby found a Navy seal impersonation expert military

671
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: records and confirmed it and those screaming nightmares Richard had,

672
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: while the seal expert said fake nightmares are a common

673
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: feature of con artists like Richard.

674
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: Abby had been duped.

675
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 3: After this happened, I was like, now I got a book,

676
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 3: thank you.

677
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: She titled her book Duped.

678
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: Once she got started on it, she realized it was

679
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: about much more than just her own experience. It was

680
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: about the experience of being lied to.

681
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: It's not a straight out memoir, It is really an investigation.

682
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: We decided to focus on the victims. What is it

683
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: like to be deceived? What is it like to be duped?

684
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: What is it like to not have all the facts

685
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: and that the life you've been living is not the

686
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 2: life you thought you were living. So that was my book.

687
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: Abby never blamed herself for believing Richard's lies.

688
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: You know what's the worst thing you did.

689
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: The worst thing is you trust somebody, and we.

690
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: Have to trust. Society works on trust.

691
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: You have to stop at the red light, you have

692
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 3: to stop at the stop light. You have to trust

693
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 3: that the pilot knows how to fly the plane.

694
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: You have to trust that that cop is really a cop.

695
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: You have to and if you don't, society will fall apart.

696
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: Working on her book, she researched experts on deception like

697
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: doctor Jennifer Fried who coined the term betrayal blindness.

698
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: And it was just about you know how when children

699
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: are being abused by their caretakers. They don't see it

700
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: because they need that caretaker. They can't believe that that

701
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: person was working against them. And it's the same thing

702
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: in any relationship, whether it's somebody you're a business colleague

703
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: or your romantic partner. You don't want to believe that

704
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: someone's going to do this to you. You can't believe it,

705
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 2: and it's to your benefit not to see it because

706
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: of your life that you built up.

707
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: And she even explored this stigma around being deceived, that

708
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: feeling of self blame and stupidity when we've been lied to.

709
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: So then I found this study that said, actually, smarter

710
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 2: people are more susceptible to being duped because they don't

711
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 2: think it would happen to them.

712
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: So actually people who've been duped are smarter.

713
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: They tend to be smarter, specifically because of fatal overconfidence.

714
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: It would never happen to me.

715
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: Abby turned Richard's betrayal into a story, a story for

716
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: herself and for the world.

717
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 2: I never felt ashamed, I never felt embarrassed.

718
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: To me, it was a story and it was a

719
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: great story.

720
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: Instead of covering international relations today she mostly reports on fraud.

721
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 6: I think it's fair to say that it changed the

722
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 6: trajectory of my career.

723
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: That began reporting on different things. I became somewhat of

724
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: an expert on fraud. I guess read a book about

725
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: white color fraud, and I did a podcast which led

726
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: into a documentary that I did with The New York

727
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: Times called to Live in Die, Alabama. So it did

728
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: change my.

729
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Life, and thanks to her experience with Richard, she's learned

730
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: a few things about herself.

731
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: I always knew I was resilient. I always knew I

732
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 2: was strong, but I don't know that I realized just

733
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: how capable I was. That's nice to know.

734
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: We end all of our episodes with the same question,

735
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: why are you sharing your story?

736
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: I think it's very important for people to know that

737
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: they're not alone and that this happens to other people.

738
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 2: It's very easy for it to happen now with technology.

739
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: You're not a terrible person, You're not a stupid person.

740
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 2: Lots of people are in this situation and don't feel

741
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 2: like an idiot, because, again.

742
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: What's the worst thing you did? You trusted, that's okay.

743
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal, I said, well, I'm

744
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: not a suspicious person, and he said, maybe you should

745
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: be more suspicious, you should ask me questions.

746
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 7: At this point, my heart dropped and I feel like

747
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 7: I'm going to vomit. The betrayal felt so intentional and

748
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 7: possibly like it was a long time coming.

749
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team,

750
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal

751
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com, and be sure to follow

752
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. We're grateful for your support.

753
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our

754
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and

755
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A

756
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is

757
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

758
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

759
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced

760
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard,

761
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury

762
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and

763
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: Jessica Kriintech audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio,

764
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: additional editing support from Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by

765
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by mybe Music and For

766
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

767
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts