1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: they call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer, 6 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: Paul Decant. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: Today we bring you two worlds that will smash together. 9 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: The world of science, rocketry, physics, and the occult, the mysterious, 10 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: the the void. M hmmm. Absolutely and that sounds maybe 11 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: like a little bit of hyperbole, but it's absolutely true. 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: Today's episode centers on something that the three of us 13 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: find fascinating and we hope you find it fascinating too. 14 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: It's a little known cover up that was quite successful 15 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: for decades. It occurs in the United States, and it does, 16 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, combine the bleeding edge of science 17 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: with the hidden dare we say occulted heart of the 18 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: dark arts? Yes? And how different are they really and 19 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: we'll get into that too. The exploration of mankind's abilities. 20 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: That's really what both of those pursuits are like, what 21 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: can we achieve either with our hands or through our 22 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: mind and through some other plane that may be spiritual. Right, 23 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: and this also calls to mind the old sci fi 24 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: quotation that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Right, 25 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: And there you have it. That is the end that 26 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: encapsulated to this episode. Yes, let's start at the beginning. 27 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: Marvel white Side Parsons. That's not a comic book Character's 28 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: his real name, Isn't that a great name? Is? Marvel 29 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: Whiteside Parsons is born on October two in Los Angeles, California. Yeah, 30 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: he's also known as Jack. That's what he becomes known as. Yes, Yes, 31 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: And from his early childhood days, Jack has an abiding 32 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: interest in rocketry. At this point in the early twentieth century, 33 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: rocketry is still seen very much as a as a 34 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: science fiction thing. Yeah, that's where it exists in the 35 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: pages of fiction, of drawings of what a rocket could 36 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: be like, right, people landing on various lunar shores, weird 37 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: space rocks and meeting you know, martians perhaps martians, Yes, 38 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: some sort of uh, some sort of alien that functions 39 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: as a stand in for whatever ideology the author dislikes. 40 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of There was a lot of communism 41 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: in space at the time. You gotta love allegory, Yeah, 42 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: especially when it's naked allegory, you know what I mean. 43 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: But Jack swallows his stuff hook line and sinker. He 44 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: loves it, loves it, and I think a lot of 45 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: us can understand that feeling. Right in, Jack and his friend, 46 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: a guy named Ed Foreman, start experimenting with rockets on 47 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: an amateur level. Matt, have you ever done this when 48 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: you were a kid? Did you ever make and launch 49 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: those model rockets? Yeah? Uh, And that's about the right time. 50 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: When he was fourteen, he was doing this. When I 51 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: was in middle school to high school, my friend Scott 52 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: and I would spend a lot of time in the 53 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: backyard experimenting with chemicals and with cardboard tubes actually, which 54 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: is something that Jack also did. Hey, Paul, what about you? 55 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: Were you? Uh rocketman? A rocket boy and so conspiracy 56 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: realist fellow listeners, Our superproducer Paul has asked us to 57 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: relay to you because he won't record his own voice 58 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: because he couldn't get him on Mike. He asked us 59 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: to relate to you that he liked many of us 60 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: as a child bought the rock model rocket kits experimented 61 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: with him in the backyard. Uh, and noted there was 62 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: an element of danger to it. Yeah, there's like there's 63 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: an explosion that happens, and then this thing goes up 64 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: into the air really high, and then usually at least 65 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: in my experience, blows up to some extent. And Jack 66 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: Parsons to let the bad rout of the bag here. Uh. 67 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: He is from a wealthy family, a very wealthy family, 68 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: a very well to do family, and he gets some 69 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: leeway experimenting with these rockets studs something a lot of 70 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: kids can maybe afford to do. And even if they 71 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: can afford to do it, not many of them have 72 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: the ingenuity perhaps to do this. So his parents backyard 73 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: is filled with craters very soon after he begins experimenting 74 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: with stuff, and his neighborhood is littered with flaming bits 75 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: of paper and scorched cardboard tubes. Yeah, and this is 76 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: a year before the Great Depression hits, by the way, 77 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: So everybody's living living the high life shooting off rockets 78 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: in their backyard. Well, at least Jack is right right. 79 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: And as Parsons and Foremen go to high school, they 80 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: become captivated with how ingenious is this? They become captivated 81 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: with the idea of creating a solid fuel rocket engine. 82 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: And this concept at the time is widely considered poppy 83 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: cock nonsense. If it can't happen, why would you study that? 84 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: Right now? Yes? What are what? Are you? A buffoon? 85 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And to get on the 86 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: liquid stuff? And if God meant rockets to travel to space, 87 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: wouldn't God have put them there already? Yes, one of 88 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: those things exactly. But Parsons, also as a kid, has long, 89 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: meandering teenage conversations. I'm sure we can all identify with 90 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: some of with those situations, like when you're when you're 91 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: a teenager, you often get involved in these epic marathon conversations. 92 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: You hang up, no, you hang up right? So who 93 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: is who is Parsons talking to? He's he's talking to 94 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: someone who was born two years before him, who was 95 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: also a fairly young man at the time, a man 96 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: named Werner von Brown, uh Magnus Maximilian von Brown. There's 97 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: there's a lot more names in there. Um, you might 98 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: remember this fellow. He has kind of become a name 99 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: on this show. Talk about him quite often that he's 100 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: the former Nazi scientist who helped to develop the V 101 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: two rocket for the for the Nazi Party, and then 102 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: he was secretly brought over to the US via that 103 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: Operation paper Clip that we speak about, where over six 104 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: d scientists were brought to the United States. Uh. And 105 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: then you know, he went on to develop the Saturn 106 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: five heavy lift vehicle that was used in the Apollo 107 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: programs that took us to the Moon, as well as 108 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: the original rockets that started the United States space program. 109 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: And there's like, there's a whole other host of things 110 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: that he did for this country and for rocketry in general. Yeah, 111 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: it's a it's a little bit of an eye opener 112 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: for anybody who just started listening to our show to 113 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: learn that the NASA institution as we understand it would 114 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: not be capable of the feats it is capable of 115 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: without Nazi engineering and ingenuity. Yeah. And again at this point, 116 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: he's just a young guy. Yeah, and I feel, you know, 117 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: I feel weird saying Nazi ingenuity. We do have to 118 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: point out Operation paper Clip. It was a genuine conspiracy 119 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: and cover up that occurred. Um, A lot of the 120 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: American public did not know about it. Would not learn 121 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: about it for some time. But many of those scientists 122 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: were not necessarily like, they were not ideological Nazis. No, 123 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: they're the greatest minds in their fields. Yeah, and they 124 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: some of them were only there because they couldn't get 125 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: out of Germany before things went south, certainly. So that's 126 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: the this is all this all stuff that neither Parsons 127 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: nor von Braun know about at this time. They're just 128 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: two rocket nerds. Yeah, just talking on the phone. And 129 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: as he said, Matt, the Great Depression hits here in 130 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: the US. We usually think of the Great Depression just 131 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: in terms of its effect on this country, but the 132 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: Great Depression has consequences that touch the entire globe. Right, 133 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: very few people accept arguably the people responsible for the 134 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: situation escape unscathed in most countries. The Great Depression starts 135 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: in last until the late nine thirties. And because of this, 136 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: Parsons family is not elite enough to survive the situation. 137 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: So instead of becoming increasingly aristocratic, they lose a ton 138 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: of money. And this prevents him from completing his higher 139 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: education at Pasadena Junior College and Stanford University, and he 140 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: ultimately drops out. Then, in a moment of I don't know. 141 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: I guess this was just opportunity fortune. Uh. In nineteen 142 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: thirty three, Uh, our our gentleman here, Jack Parsons and 143 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: his friend Ed Foreman, they approach another man named Frank Molina, 144 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: and he at this point as a graduate student at 145 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: cal Tech California Technical Institute, and they asked for his 146 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: help for his expertise because he's already kind of working 147 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: in these fields, like, how can you help us with 148 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: rocket research that we want to do that we're so 149 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: passionate about. Right, And Luckily for then Frank is a 150 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: pretty open minded guy. He says, you know what, yeah, 151 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: I'll team up with you. Yeah, that's yeah, okay, sure, 152 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: let's do this. Guys. They must have come to him 153 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: with something very compelling. Well also his field of study 154 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: concerned rocket treat Yeah, well exactly. But but again it 155 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: for them to team up together, the other two gentlemen, 156 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: Ed and Jack must have had some pretty good schematics 157 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: or some some math and or science worked out to 158 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: have Molina go, yes, let's do this, right, yes, So 159 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: it's a good partnership for these guys because Frank is 160 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: bringing scientific rigor academic discipline and uh, these rocket heads. 161 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: Can I say that, sure, the rocket heads, rocketheads, these 162 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: these other rocketheads are bringing a lot of practical knowledge 163 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: and experience and know enough about rocketry to ask intriguing questions. 164 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: And intriguing questions are the best way to talk to 165 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: a grad student anywhere. Grad students in the audience, you 166 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, these unanswered questions 167 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: that perhaps we could be the ones to discover the truth, 168 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: and especially when they're niche, because you know, you have 169 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: to imagine at this time, it's safe to say that 170 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Frank Malina is probably in need of someone to talk 171 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: with about rocketry. Yeah, because we're we're in the days, 172 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: you know, the mid nineteen thirties and everything up until 173 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: this point, Like we kind of mentioned earlier, rocketry, the 174 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: whole idea of jet propulsion, these kinds of things. It's 175 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: just it's something of the future. It's something that you 176 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: read in a book somewhere, right, it's a work of fiction. Nowadays, 177 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: in as we record this, the phrase rocket scientist is 178 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: almost always used as a synonym for genius, usually in 179 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: a sarcastic way. Right, But back in the nineteen thirties, 180 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: pre World War Two, most people did as as you said, Matt, 181 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: think rocketry was ridiculous, eccentric and impractical. You know, pseudoscience 182 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: a sort of hunt for fool's gold in the sky exactly. Yeah. 183 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: It would be like if you went out to a 184 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: bar right now and someone introduced themselves to you as 185 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: a as like a teleportation specialist or something to that 186 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: effect or research. I I researched teleportation. I'm a teleportationist. Yeah, 187 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, okay, well see you later. Right, what 188 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: do you really do? Well? I attempt to teleport things 189 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: instantaneously through space and time. At this point, it's it's 190 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: mostly on paper, but we're getting there, and we've we've 191 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: done some very interesting things with very small bits of matter. Yeah. 192 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: I could totally see that that's an interesting person, maybe 193 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: at a bar as a stranger, but that's not that 194 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like it's a it's a real thing. Yeah, 195 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: you're probably not looking to get into any kind of 196 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: business venture with that person at this point. So these 197 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: guys are not being taken seriously. Jack Parsons, head foreman, 198 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: Frank Malina are not being taken seriously. They form a 199 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: group called gal Sit Rocket Research Group. They're ridiculed by 200 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: professors and learned individuals of cow Tech. They even get 201 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: a nickname, Yeah, the Suicide Squad. Not the DC universe, 202 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: I P. But yeah, the Suicide Squad. And it's it's 203 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: really just due to the reckless nature of what they do, 204 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: how they perform their experiments, these things explode, which is 205 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: mainly let me go ahead and say it's mainly Parsons. 206 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: He's like, are you familiar with the Stand? Okay, So 207 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: in the adaptation of the Stand in the novel itself, 208 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: which is which is better than the adaptation, no knock 209 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: on the adaptation. But in the novel The Stand, there 210 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: is a character called the garbage Man trash can Man's 211 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: that's his name, uh, and trash can Man without spoiling 212 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: the story and without just being wonderful to say yes, yes, uh, 213 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: trash can Man has a weird fascination with blowing things up. 214 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: And there's a little bit of trash can Man and 215 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: Jack Parsons and Parsons and trash can Man, you know, yeah, totally. 216 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: And so it's no surprise that the people who are 217 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:02,359 Speaker 1: used to more buttoned up conserve the experiments and methodologies. 218 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: It's no surprise that they think this guy is just 219 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: somewhere between cartoon and a terrorist. Oh yeah, well, it's 220 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: not like he conducts himself in any of those manners 221 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: that you're speaking. These guys would probably consider themselves and 222 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: acted like um like hot Shots part part two, but 223 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: but no for real, like like walking around campus like, hey, 224 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: how you doing rocket scientists, ladies, and also smoke a 225 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: little pot, probably drink talk about socialism because they hung 226 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: out al up. But it wasn't just um hanging out 227 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: to build and talk about rockets. They did have social 228 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: lives and they spent that time together and they partied. 229 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: There goes the suicide Squad. But by the way, I 230 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: know you you and Noel had mentioned this before, and 231 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: specifically I think you had mentioned this. But Castle Rock 232 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: just because we got into a Stephen King novel there 233 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: Castle Rock. I'm finally starting to watch and I could 234 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: not I could not recommend it more. How far are you? 235 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm only three episodes in, but I'm just loving all 236 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: the little bits and pieces I keep picking up from 237 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: the universe. I'm very interested to hear what you think 238 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: about the end, because the whole season's out now it 239 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: is Oh that makes me happy. And I think ten episodes. So, 240 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: without saying anymore, I don't know how to direct this 241 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: in a way that won't spoil it for you. Matt. 242 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: How about this votes. I would love to hear what 243 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: you think about this, Matt. I know you would too, 244 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: but we don't want to spoil it for Matt. So 245 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: if you have strong opinions, I would love to hear them. 246 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: I'm a little conflicted about the end. You can write 247 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: to me directly so that it doesn't go to right 248 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: to conspiracy. Just put a conspiracy at how stiff works 249 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: dot com. Just put a little note in there that 250 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: says at the top, Matt, don't read this. There you go, great, great, Yeah, 251 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: I want to. I want to hear what people think. 252 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: Because it did get renewed. Yes, so trash can man 253 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: aside suicide squad aside Parsons isn't completely counterculture? In nine five, well, 254 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: in four he meets a woman at a church dance 255 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: incredibly common way to meet people at the time, and 256 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five he marries her. Yes, ms Helen Northrop, 257 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: who is the sister, the older sister I believe of 258 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: Sarah Northrop Hollister. And that's gonna come into play a 259 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: little later, so we're not gonna expound on that. If 260 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: you know what that is, you can just put a 261 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: little a little feather in your cap. And if you're 262 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: the sort of person who cheats at cross words in trivia, 263 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: don't do it. You will have an opportunity because we're 264 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: going to take a break for a word from our sponsor. 265 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: We know a lot of people dealt with a moral 266 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: or ethical quandary, some of you. To borrow the line 267 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: from D and D, we're very lawful, good about it. 268 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: I will not cheat. I will wait to hear the story. Yeah, 269 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: did you did you eat that one marshmallow now? Or 270 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: did you wait until after the ad break to get 271 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: two marshmallows? Yeah? Right? Or did you decide? I do 272 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: what I want? Because doing what I want should be 273 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: the entirety of the law. So many easter eggs already 274 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: already keep going back to parsons. So they continue, despite 275 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: the ridicule, to make multiple breakthroughs in the study and 276 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: manufacture of engines, but more importantly, rocket fuel, the fuel 277 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: for those engines. Exactly. They actually received the first government 278 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: funding for a rocketry research group, at least in the us. 279 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: And you know it's this isn't something that our arch 280 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: friendom missis, I don't know our nemesis slash friend Jonathan 281 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: strictly he would call it a princely sum. But you 282 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: know what they do get where they get mad one 283 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: grand to get a stack, they get a single stack. 284 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: But man, that is a nice stack at the time, right, 285 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: especially in thirties. Right. And here's the thing. They pretty 286 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: much they have to spend about of it, about a 287 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: quarter of this thousand dollars, good chunk of the budget 288 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: repairing damage to buildings on the Caltech campus. Damage you say, 289 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: they've just they've been blowing stuff up last it's so 290 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: although there. And also they asked for a lot more 291 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: than a thousand dollars they got a thousand dollars um. 292 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: So they have to spend a bunch of money repairing 293 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: the campus and the damage they've done to it. Eventually 294 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: they have to move from the campus entirely due to 295 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: the danger post by the explosives, and they relocate to 296 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: the Arroyo Seco Canyon. They're conducting experiments and someone's watching them. 297 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, um, who is that group? Oh yeah, the 298 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: Federal Bureau of investigation is watching them. The FBI. Yeah, 299 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: I think generally when you're making explosives or things that 300 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: can explode, that's you're gonna get on a list. And 301 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: they did. They did get on a list. Also, side note, 302 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: maybe maybe we should come up with some alternate some 303 00:20:47,840 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: alternate interpretations of the FBI acronym, but fully bundled institute. 304 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: That's not fun Boys International, that's it. That's it, fun 305 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: Boys International with a Z on the boys. Oh my gosh. 306 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: All right, let us know if that's a good T 307 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: shirt idea, and Boys International because we could get the 308 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: we could get the FBI logo. Yes. And one of 309 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: the reasons they're very much interested in these gentlemen and 310 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: they're pensiant to blow things up is because they're interested 311 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: in extremists of any sort that might want to get 312 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: with these guys and or just blow things up on 313 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: the site where they are now located in that Arroyo 314 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: Seco canyon right right, Because they are literally just in 315 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: a couple of rundown sheds, iron sheds. The security is 316 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: not very high. So in addition to being aware of 317 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: these um these rocket heads political leanings and the ideologies 318 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: with which they identify. The FBI is also aware of 319 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: the fact it someone political extremists would be what we 320 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: call a terrorists today, that that someone could ride up 321 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: there in force, maybe with some firearms, and take the explosives, 322 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: take these chemicals, maybe even take this technology and launch 323 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: a rocket at a bank, at a city, you know, 324 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: or just blow it up from the ground level, or 325 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: just blow it up, that's right, without even bothering to 326 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: deliver the rocket. So this is when the FBI first 327 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: has their eye on Parsons and co. In the suicide 328 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: Squad founds the Aero Jet Engineering Corporation to sell rockets 329 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: to the military. The scientists who had previously derided and 330 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: pooped and pissed on Parsons work. Now we're lining up 331 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: around the block across the country to join this booming industry. 332 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: Because Uncle Sam has officially opened up his wallet, and 333 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam's while it is big, it is that that 334 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: was so big. It's so big, bit of you's got 335 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: a lot of money, and Uncle Sam doesn't even really 336 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: know how much is in that wallet because it's kind 337 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: of infinite, and sometimes that that money just disappears in 338 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: the level of trillions in these weird little black budgets 339 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: or just a palette of let's see a billion dollars 340 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: can disappear in recent memory and barely make a mention 341 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: in the news. Gets on a plane. I didn't see 342 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: it get off? Did you see it? Get off? I 343 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: don't know where it is. It's gone. What am I 344 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: a plane? Doctor? Who knows? Who knows? It's not like 345 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: we weigh these things, right, Let's get back to the 346 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: real issues. Okay, something social and insignificant, perfect man, we has? 347 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: Has this show made a cynical No? Has this show 348 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: made you cynical? If you're listening, let us don't. We've 349 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: had a few people right in about that. That's true. 350 00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: That's true. And you and I have been in situations where, uh, 351 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: the void stared back, you know, or the abyss stared back. 352 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: Kind of always is staring. It's just do you choose 353 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: to see it or not? Yeah, me and the me 354 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: and the abyss have been making some smoldering eye contact recently, 355 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: made some smoldering eye contact with the dude earlier today 356 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: all bore you with those details. Oh yeah, I was 357 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: gonna spring that on you and ask you to mention 358 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: that story at the end. Maybe we can do that 359 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: at the end, would you be okay with That's perfect? Okay, 360 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: And that's this is a Paul and Matt story. So 361 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: we'll have to wait till the end. We're we're building 362 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: up expectations. Man, we better deliver ours. Let's let's do 363 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: it just like these guys. Let's deliver a payload. There 364 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: we go. Now again, Paul refuses to be recorded on 365 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: this show because he's worried about his future political career. 366 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: But he did purposely turn on the mic and chuckle it. 367 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: He did. He gave me a little George w. Bush 368 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: chuckle it was but that that was that was great. 369 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: Deliver the payload, okay. So the industry is booming, right, 370 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: There's this need for advanced research into rockets, and it's 371 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: growing exponentially because other countries are researching this. And just 372 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: as the US is concerned about the technological innovations occurring 373 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: in rival countries today, the US is concerned back then 374 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: of possible technological gaps. Yeah, because we have you know, 375 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: you always have to be ahead of your enemy. That's 376 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: that's the whole point that military thing. And as we've 377 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: discussed in previous episodes, nation states don't have friends. They 378 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: have interests. Yes, So Parsons co founds this thing called 379 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: the Jet Propulsion Laboratory that you've probably heard of before, 380 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: the JPL JPO. Yeah, and they went with this term 381 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: jet propulsion at the suggestion of one of the suicide 382 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: squad members, the third man, Malie a Uh. And the 383 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: whole idea was to avoid the stigma associated with that 384 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: idea or term rocket rocketry, right, rocket just as a 385 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: as a phrase. It turned a lot of people off. 386 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: We're just interested in this jet propulsion. It sounds nice too, 387 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: because and you're like jets, you know, propellants. Yeah, it's perfect. 388 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: It's just those two things together. It's just the means 389 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: of transportation. They're pre gaming before they go into a meeting, 390 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: and they're just coaching themselves not to say the R word. Right. 391 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: So Parsons and his associates, without going too deep into this, 392 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: they play a crucial role in the development of rocketry 393 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: technology excuse us jet propulsion as World War Two shifts 394 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: into high gear, and the contributions they make also result 395 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: in financial windfalls for for all three men, but Parsons 396 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: in particular because he is the mad jet fuel gene us, 397 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: which is also a cool nickname yea. So we could 398 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: spend our entire episode focusing just on his contributions to 399 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: the field of rocketry, as well as his obsession with 400 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: blowing things up in general. But there is more to 401 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: this story. You see. Jack Parsons had another obsession, one 402 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: that was even stranger than rocket science, and we're going 403 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: to go down that rabbit hole after another quick word 404 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. In addition 405 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: to being obsessed with rockets and rocketry, Jack Parsons was 406 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: obsessed with the occult. Yes, the a coach. Yeah really, 407 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: these are what our colleague Lauren vogel bamb we call 408 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: actual facts. Right. Uh. He is not only obsessed with 409 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: the occult, but there is a strange can core it in. 410 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: It's a strange confluence and concurrence of events here because 411 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: as his career as one of the actually the world's 412 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: best rocket scientist jet propulsion scientists. Oh yeah, thank you, Matt, 413 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: Sorry guys, as his as his reputation grows there, his 414 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: association with the occult also grows and deepens, and he 415 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: moves up the rank in these esoteric organizations, one in particular, Yes, 416 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: the O T O so so in the late nineteen thirties, 417 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: he Parsons begins going to these nightly meetings at the 418 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: Los Angeles chapter of the Ordo Temporari Orientis or the 419 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: O t OH. And it's an occult society and it 420 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: was it was formed by a gentleman that you also 421 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: may know from this show. Wow, all the hits in 422 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: this episode, all the good ones. Mr Alistair Crowley, Can 423 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: we get a sinister sound cue for that? Paul? Here 424 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: we go? Oh, yes, quite appropriate for the Master of 425 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: the Dark arts. So at this time, Mr Crowley, notice 426 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: I say Crowley and Crawley. Uh, we learned from our 427 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: mistakes here people. At this time he's known as the 428 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: wickedest man in the world. He's got quite the reputation. Yeah. 429 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: He's an English occultist, ceremonial magician, um cohn man all 430 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 1: these things, scam artists, yeah, novelist, does weird things in 431 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: old ancient Egyptian temples, yeah, uh. And an explorer. He 432 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: is a British fellow born in eighteen seventy five. And 433 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: as we said, he is the founder of maybe he 434 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: would say, the discoverer, the prophet of the O t O. 435 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: And when when Parsons is first going to these things. 436 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: He's he's a young guy, he's in his early twenties, 437 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: and he's seen something that he would he would have 438 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: never seen before. Right, he is watching um magical rituals 439 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: being performed, and this affects him deeply. But it's easy 440 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: to say that someone sees a ritual and it affects 441 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: them deeply. That's what religion is about. These rituals are 442 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: much more graphic than the typical rituals you would encounter 443 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: in most organized religions. Yeah, because we're talking about sex magic. Ultimately, 444 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about chaos magic rituals that a lot of 445 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: times involved blood and other bodily fluids and acts of 446 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: a arnald nature. Let's say, well, and and this is 447 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: you know, he gets married in five and then now 448 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: we're in the late thirties at this time, as he's 449 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: really kind of coming into his own as a scientist 450 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: in this field. It's right, like you said at that 451 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: same time, this is before World War two, this is 452 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: before a lot of the huge advancements in his career. 453 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: As he's beginning to go to these meetings. UM. But 454 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: he is like fairly newly married, and I don't know. 455 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: I can't imagine what that relationship was like behind the 456 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: closed doors, what it was like knowing that your husband 457 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: is out going to these things. Well, every relationship is 458 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: a foreign country. That's correct. Each each interaction we have 459 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: with any other person, especially romantic interaction, obeys its own 460 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: laws and rituals. Yeah, for sure. And well, and the 461 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: fact that the whole sex, magic, blood magic thing is 462 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: not the only thing going on. Oh yeah. There's also 463 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: a ton of spoken word as actually invocations um ritualistic 464 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: chanting and so on. And there's there's drinking. There's more 465 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: than a dollarp of headedi ism as their conducting these rituals. 466 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: There's also the consumption of various things like this mason 467 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: gross to some people, but cakes made of menstrual blood, 468 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: for instance, mason gross to people. I don't want to 469 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: denigrate someone's religion just because it's not my thing, because 470 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: that a thing, is that a thing outside of this group. 471 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: Menstrual cakes, I do not know. Menstrual cakes. I don't know, 472 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: Matt Okay. I guess it's kind of like the placenta 473 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: eating the placenta after birth, which is become a thing, 474 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: and it's quite popular. Yeah, I look, I'm not in 475 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: the O t O. Understood, I'll be I'll be explicit 476 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: about that, but more or I'm not in the I 477 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: am not currently in the O t O. But there's 478 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: still around today. And shout out to any of you 479 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: who are currently members of the organization have been affiliated 480 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: with it. We'd love to we'd love to hear more 481 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: about this stuff. Yeah, if you want to explain menstrual cakes, 482 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: I am all yours and you seem very you're fascinated 483 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: with this. I guess that's what you could call it. 484 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: I'm concerned, you get I wish you could see this 485 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: face mats making. Yeah, yeah, maybe you're perplexed. Maybe that's 486 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: a better word. This group is practicing Crueley's philosophy of FLIMO, 487 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: which is at base kind of um. I read it 488 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: described as religious libertarianism, which I thought was pretty pretty 489 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: neat way to encapsulate it. This is the origin of 490 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. 491 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: Yeah right, we brought it back. Parsons is hooked. He 492 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: is very attracted to this idea of radical individualism, of 493 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: nonconformity and the focus upon fulfilling oneself, your own goals, 494 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: and if anyone else is fulfilled because you are fulfilled, 495 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: then so be it. But ultimately it's about you, right, 496 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: and sort of admitting the open secret that most people practice, 497 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: which is, you know, we're all the main characters of 498 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: our own stories. Right, there's nothing you can do about it. 499 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: Nothing you can do about it. Go ahead and try 500 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: and break that ego. Right, maybe you can. Yeah, I 501 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: don't know. It's kind of like you can. You could 502 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: be a cult leader, right and make other people echoes 503 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: of yourself anyway that maybe that's Some people who are 504 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: in the O t O will feel that that is 505 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: unfair to Crowley, but he is a master manipulator, and 506 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: this organization does have a lot of manipulative people in it. 507 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: We'll see how that comes into play. Parsons is especially 508 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: intrigued by Crueley's beliefs that sex can be an intrinsic 509 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: component of magical rituals, that it's not just um a 510 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: necessary but filthy act, as some of the puritanical forces 511 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: of the time would have him believe. He's he likes 512 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: this idea of sexism means of um increasing epiphany. Yeah, 513 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: reaching some higher plane that you couldn't reach just by 514 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: walking around or thinking about something or writing. You know, 515 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,959 Speaker 1: there's a physical act that can take you somewhere else 516 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: and back to his buddies, which, by the way, just 517 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: just before you get there, a physical act that can 518 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: take you somewhere else. Think about within the context of 519 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: jet propulsion, right, what he's trying to create, the technology 520 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 1: that he is creating in tandem with this is a 521 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: physical way to get to somewhere else the movie or 522 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: other places, planets, and the idea that your thoughts can 523 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: have tangible material results upon the world around you through 524 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: the force of your will alone. O t O is 525 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: all about the will, philemic magic or whatever. And in 526 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: the end, you know, it's just physical forces involved. In 527 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: one case you've got explosions and the other you've just 528 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: got friction. I got explosions. We're a family show. But yes, 529 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: that that is a fantastic point and there's something alchemical 530 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: about that, right, transformative and Parsons friends back to the 531 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: suicide squad. They think this is really weird stuff. They're 532 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: they're not on board. They're like, hey man, we're here 533 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: for the rockets. We already ate Yeah, I mean we 534 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: hear you, we hear you, just not right now, right 535 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: right right, Um, you used to be cool, let's be 536 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: work friends. But they think it's you know, they think 537 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: it's weird, but they're still genuinely friends. At first, they 538 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: just feel like this is a harmless obsession. This is 539 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: just Parsons being Parsons, at least at first, Yes, and 540 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: then he just keeps going, oh my gosh, So let's 541 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: let's talk about Filima. This this religion that was founded. 542 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: It is a religion, and it was founded in nineteen 543 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: o four. So you know, at the time when Parsons 544 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: joins up, it's like thirty years old something around. They 545 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: are well thirty five. I guess it's pretty young. Yeah, 546 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: it's a young religion. Um, it's as old as I am. 547 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: If there is a religion that is old as I 548 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: currently am as we're recording this podcast, it's very young. However, 549 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: like most occult practices, this gentleman Alistair Crowley, he argued 550 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: that it's based on these ancient, ancient beliefs, these esoteric 551 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: thoughts that have occurred far far before he was born, 552 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: far before anyone that is on earth was born. Um, 553 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: that are forgotten a lot of times or hidden or 554 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: just universal law that exists that is bigger than our 555 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: common understanding of the world in which we live. Yes, exactly, 556 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: higher planes of consciousness, stuff of the ooze. There we go. Yeah, primordial. 557 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: The word the lima itself is a form of ancient 558 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: Greek for will, you know, as in like determination, not 559 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: some guy will. Yeah, wouldn't that be funny? Though? It's 560 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: just Will. It's William William magic. Uh. The limit. Magic 561 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: spelled with a K is a system of physical, mental, 562 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,760 Speaker 1: and spiritual exercises designed to quote cause change to occur 563 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: in conformity with will. This is going to be familiar 564 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: to a lot of people who have read things like 565 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: The Secret or Mind over matter type of stuff, manifestation beliefs. Right, 566 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: if you can believe it, you can achieve it. So 567 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: this offers from some of that pop psychology self help 568 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: stuff because it has specific instructions meant to meant to 569 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: accomplish certain task. So Crowley adds that K to magic 570 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: because he wants to differentiate it from stage magic or illusion. Yeah, 571 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,720 Speaker 1: and it's not just switching out to sea, it's adding 572 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: a K to the full word magic. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, 573 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: that's really important two Crowley, Yeah, and to and to 574 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: people who practice this today. Many of the rituals in 575 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: this discipline are a synthesis of older rituals, stuff from 576 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and then practices 577 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: from Eastern belief systems. They captured Crowley's attention, well, and 578 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 1: that's Crowley was a member of the Hermetic Order of 579 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: the Golden Dawn for a while, and he borrowed a 580 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: lot of that stuff, right, And I think it was 581 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: pretty open about it. But like this is yes, and 582 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: there are some examples of this kind of stuff. There's 583 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: a ritual in the Library of Things that he's written. 584 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,280 Speaker 1: There's a ritual meant to invoke a holy Guardian angel 585 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: that you could have a conversation with, rituals called Libra semic. 586 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: There's a gnostic mass, it's a eucharistic kind of kind 587 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: of ritual. And then of course there's sexual nosis, the 588 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: idea that um through physical acts with oneself or another 589 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: person or people, it's possible to achieve a higher plane 590 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: of consciousness, which for skeptics is going to sound a 591 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: lot like a a way to convince people to sleep 592 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: with you. Well, and it's also a It's an interesting 593 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: little litmus test. When you're going through and trying to 594 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: sell someone on this religion. You can tell if it's 595 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: someone you wanted your group or not as soon as 596 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: you get there and you start discussing how perhaps, um, 597 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: we will use the word masturbation of you and your 598 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: friends here that we're all hanging out with as I'm 599 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 1: talking to you about this, that's a that's one of 600 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: our major rituals. And a certain percentage of those people 601 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: are going to turn around, walk away, and then a 602 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: few others are going to go let me hear a 603 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: little more about this, And those are the people that 604 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: you want in your group. And it's probably something. It's 605 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: probably not something where they just throw people to the 606 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: deep end and escalates over a period of time. Right sure, 607 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: But a little peek behind the curtain get you your converts. 608 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm thinking strategically and cult formation and gathering the masses 609 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: right right right, the idea of being um special or 610 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: privy to this hidden knowledge. But for people who do 611 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,439 Speaker 1: believe this, do practice it, and do feel that they 612 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: have a tank um the realizations for which they yearned 613 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: or the results that they desired. This stuff is legitimate 614 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: so we're presenting both sides of the belief. We're despite 615 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: not being in the O T O, we're not making 616 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: a judgment call about it. These people are all in theory, 617 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: consenting adults in full possession of their wits, as long 618 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: as you're not hurting anyone like like say, branding them, 619 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: uh with with a cattle iron, right, do what thou wilt? 620 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And many It's important to 621 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: mention that many practitioners of this form of magic do 622 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: seek material, tangible results, money, power, love, a breakthrough in rocketry, 623 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: for example, But it's not a mandatory thing. Sometimes it's 624 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 1: just a higher realization. Cruelly believed himself to be a prophet, 625 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: as we said, and Parsons at this time is relating 626 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,359 Speaker 1: the concepts of magic that he's exploring to the ideas 627 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: of quantum physics and itself. Uh, quantum physics is a 628 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: relatively new concept at this time. They're both in their 629 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: own way young religions. Yeah, that's that's a really great 630 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: point a quantum physics as a young religion. I can 631 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: totally see that. I mean, when you get to the 632 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: edges of physics, it's really just the smartest people in 633 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: the room, throwing their opinions at each other, you know 634 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: what I mean, which I think is a beautiful, beautiful 635 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: point for our species to be at. So we mentioned 636 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: that Parsons makes a lot of money. He encounters significant 637 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: amounts of cash as the US government continues to buy 638 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: his groups liquid jet fuel first and jet engines designed 639 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: to run on this fuel. This money allows him to 640 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: start holding his own elaborate o t o rich at 641 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: his house, which becomes known as wait for it, the Parsonage. 642 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: Oh that's pretty great, It's okay, the parsonage. Well, hey, hey, Ben, 643 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: So let's say I've got really nothing to do. It's 644 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: a Friday night. Um, I hear about this new group. 645 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go hang out at the parsonage here. It's 646 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: a good place to be. What am I gonna get 647 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: into while I'm over there? I'm so glad you asked that. 648 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna get it. If you can get in the door, 649 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: you're gonna get into a crazy time. These rituals are 650 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 1: very not safe for work as we call it today, 651 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: and they are wild for the standards of the time. 652 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: There are people shouting chants during massive orgies and on 653 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: multiple occasions there Parsons is taking steps to attempt to 654 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: conceive the Antichrist, the moon child wild straight from the invisibles. Yes, 655 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: while he is at the forefront of rocket technology, he 656 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: is attempting to be at the forefront of Antichrist advocacy. Wow. 657 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: And then he he finishes up, has the I'm assuming 658 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: the help clean up afterwards, because you don't want to 659 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: do that on your own. I'm assuming. Uh, and he's wealthy, 660 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: as we said, then you you know, put on your 661 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: lap coat and head on into work on Monday. I 662 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: mean we've all been in situations like that, right, Yeah, 663 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: Good fences make good coworker relationships. That's probably That's probably 664 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,879 Speaker 1: what his buddies are saying to each other. Yeah, like, look, man, 665 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: he's getting that stuff. But man, he's really got some 666 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: great ideas. But when he's when he's here, he's here. 667 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: So in nineteen one, things get even stranger. Parsons engages 668 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: in an ongoing sexual relationship with his wife's sister, who 669 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: is seventeen years old at the time. Underaged person. Yeah, 670 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: and here's the problem. The group he's a part of, 671 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: the ORDO the O t O. It's kind of encouraged 672 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: because it's something that he wants and that's all that matters, 673 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: and it seems consensual to everyone involves, so they don't 674 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: call the cops or anything. And well there's a flip 675 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: side of the coin too. Parson's wife is also in 676 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 1: a sexual relationship with one of these other most senior 677 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: members of the O T O. So there's this um 678 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:42,399 Speaker 1: very open attitude towards sex and very fluid relationships, right, monogamy. 679 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: That's something for the squares. The Pasadena police. Meanwhile, I 680 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: have been receiving repeated complaints about unspeakable acts occurring at 681 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: the parsonage. Imagine it's the nineties. You're one of the neighbors. 682 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: You live in a nice neighborhood. You're probably wealthy, is 683 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 1: you're don't, you're probably well off if you're living next 684 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: door to Jack Parsons. And then you're hearing these crazy chants, 685 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: these moans of of sexual ecstasy, and then maybe some 686 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 1: ritualistic screaming. You don't know what's going on. It is 687 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 1: funny that at in every instance they begin as just 688 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: a simple noise complaint and the officers show up, and 689 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: then they find themselves in a very different situation. But 690 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: there's nothing you do privacy of your own home. Just 691 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: keep it down, please, I guess you're right. Yeah, well 692 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,839 Speaker 1: that's true. I don't know what the blue laws were 693 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: at the time where he is, like if he could 694 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,919 Speaker 1: actually be arrested for doing something in his home um 695 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: thotomy and the like, yeah, or maybe consumption of an 696 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 1: illegal substance. The counterculture is like the Pasadena police Force, 697 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,880 Speaker 1: well aware of Parsons activities, and in a way he 698 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,839 Speaker 1: becomes a precursor to the common thing that we have 699 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 1: here in the US today on the West Coast, the 700 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: billionaire bro tech guru Tony Stark esque genius. Right, he 701 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: makes massive amounts of money from his innovations. He spends 702 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: massive amounts of money partying, pursuing alternative lifestyles. And we 703 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 1: can compare it today too. Uh. Tech gurs go micro 704 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: docing at burning Man and and also come out with 705 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 1: incredible technology, or at least own the companies that come 706 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,359 Speaker 1: out with incredible technology, right, And there's this sense that 707 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: they are somewhat above the law of the common peasant. Right. 708 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: Note quick cut in your head, folks to that picture 709 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: of Elon Musk on the Joe Rogan show smoking a 710 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: massive blunt and you know his employees can't do that 711 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,600 Speaker 1: because there would be problems with their security clearances for SpaceX. Yeah. 712 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,839 Speaker 1: I really didn't think that was when I just saw 713 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: the thumbnail from YouTube. That nice photoshop. Yeah, that's funny. 714 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 1: Oh wow. I mean, I it's marijuana. It's fine. It's 715 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: legal there. It's very close to being legal across the US, 716 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,879 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's just the money got 717 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 1: too good. That's what happens. The morality this is a 718 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: different episode, but the the racism disguised as morality, that 719 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: was the original reason for for the the criminalization in marijuana. 720 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,839 Speaker 1: Just it doesn't match up to money. Yeah. That being said, 721 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 1: we encourage you not to do drugs everyone listening, unless 722 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 1: you want to. And that's all the whole of the law. 723 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: So there you go. Hey there we oh man, no comment, 724 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,399 Speaker 1: no comment. So the counterculture is aware of this. This 725 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,680 Speaker 1: guy is an l M musk a Tony Stark. Soon, 726 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 1: another figure of California's underground scene joins the activities, a 727 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:09,279 Speaker 1: fellow named l Ron Hubbard. That's true, Paul, can we 728 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 1: did a sound cue? Great man? Who's l Ron Hubbard? 729 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,879 Speaker 1: L Ron Hubbard is the father of a little thing 730 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: called Diane Neddics. It's a philosophy that he created, that 731 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: he summoned, and he would later change his mind and 732 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: create the concepts that would become a full on religion scientology, 733 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,800 Speaker 1: a religion for tax purposes. Maybe I don't know. I 734 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 1: don't know. L Ron Hubbard was thinking, Well, he joins 735 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: the gang. He joins the parsonage in nine and uh. 736 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: Around this time, Fumboys International removes their interests in Parsons, 737 00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,360 Speaker 1: both because they're concerned about his unorthodox private life, his 738 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: open practice of the dark arts, and still his political inclinations. 739 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,360 Speaker 1: These may lead him to be considered untrustworthy or sympathetic 740 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,320 Speaker 1: to communist forces. And yeah, and in the worst he 741 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,719 Speaker 1: would be the worst kind of mole, the person who 742 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,439 Speaker 1: is at the top creating technology that will then be used. 743 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 1: You know, he's not some he's not a rocket scientists 744 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 1: employed by this thing. He is the rocket scientist running conceptualizing. Yeah, 745 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: he's at the point of expertise where his best guest 746 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: qualifies as leading scientific theory. Yeah, you don't want iron 747 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,560 Speaker 1: Man as an enemy, right there you go, that's a 748 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: good quote. Um, Yeah, you don't want iron man is 749 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 1: an enemy. And also a someone who switched or became 750 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,200 Speaker 1: a spy or double agent or a mole for ideological 751 00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: purposes is much more difficult to control than someone who 752 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,719 Speaker 1: does it because they're in debt or they're being blackmailed 753 00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 1: for instance, right, much more dangerous also, he so they're like, Okay, 754 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,839 Speaker 1: the guy's happy, I don't think he's hurting anybody, and 755 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,320 Speaker 1: we need rockets. At this time, there's some personal problems 756 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,360 Speaker 1: that he encounters. The person that he's infatuated with, Sarah, 757 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,320 Speaker 1: that's the sister of Helen, his wife. She becomes infatuated 758 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:26,200 Speaker 1: with l Ron Mr Steel your girl Hubbard, and this 759 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: makes Parsons insanely upset and he starts delving into He's 760 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 1: moving up in the ranks of the O t O, 761 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: by the way, and that time getting into leadership positions. 762 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,000 Speaker 1: He develops a different focus. He has a deeper interest 763 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,880 Speaker 1: in witchcraft and the darker side of magic. He's fascinated 764 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:49,319 Speaker 1: by Poultergeist, by spiritual apparitions. Man. Feeling really tortured at 765 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: this time and being always an innovator, right, he decides 766 00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 1: to try and create a new lover, to create his 767 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:04,600 Speaker 1: own lover an elemental wow, like like a like a golem. 768 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: Lover yeah, like um, like a thought form he wants 769 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 1: to manifest perfect lover Uh. Sarah runs off with l 770 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard and so Parsons takes part in these very 771 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: unusual rituals. They're supposed to help him manifest his thought 772 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:30,560 Speaker 1: into the world. He uh. He plants his seed with 773 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 1: magic tablets uh. And he does it to the sound 774 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:40,839 Speaker 1: of music, not the but there's well and well. This 775 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,560 Speaker 1: is something that's at the basis of most chaos or 776 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: some chaos magic where where seed is planted on a 777 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,960 Speaker 1: piece of paper that has writing and or a symbol 778 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,080 Speaker 1: on it that is then burned a lot of times 779 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 1: like a run. Yeah. And shortly after this, Parsons meets 780 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,919 Speaker 1: a woman named Marjorie Can and he feels as if 781 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: this is the elemental force that he has invoked somehow conjured. 782 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 1: She becomes his muse, and he sees his scientific and 783 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,560 Speaker 1: spiritual pursuits as increasingly intertwined, you know what I mean. 784 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: He sees himself as of the line of great thinkers 785 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 1: like Isaac Newton who totally totally may breakthroughs in physics, 786 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,239 Speaker 1: but then also totally believed in alchemy and practiced it 787 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,120 Speaker 1: and thought that perhaps the science was part of the alchemy. Right. Yeah, 788 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,920 Speaker 1: so Parsons is the same way rocketry is magic and 789 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,880 Speaker 1: magic is rocketry. For example, when he works on his 790 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,000 Speaker 1: experiments in the desert, he recites a pagan poem to pan. 791 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,239 Speaker 1: You can imagine how weird this sounds to the g men. 792 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 1: Fun boys are not You're not having fun. This is 793 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,560 Speaker 1: not as fun as It's not as fun as the 794 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,959 Speaker 1: boys thought. Uh. Parsons eventually runs into financial trouble after 795 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:04,800 Speaker 1: he gets involved with had investments associated with l Ron Hubbard. 796 00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: This is a pattern. Hubbert goes on to repeat, By 797 00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,160 Speaker 1: the way, is this the whole yacht thing? Mm hmmmmm 798 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,080 Speaker 1: the yacht boys. Yeah, Hubbard had convinced him to take 799 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,680 Speaker 1: money and travel to Miami and buy three yachts. Oh, 800 00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,400 Speaker 1: three yachts. He has a yacht thing. L Ron Hubbard 801 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,960 Speaker 1: has a yacht at a time. That's that's um. That's 802 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: a lot. Many of the academics that are suspected of 803 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 1: being Communist sympathizers are blacklisted as the Cold War sets 804 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: in post World War two, and this means it Parsons 805 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,719 Speaker 1: and a lot of his colleagues lose their security clearances, 806 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,840 Speaker 1: and without their security clearances, they are out of jobs. 807 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,480 Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, that is that is a sweeping change 808 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,480 Speaker 1: that starts coming through around that time. And then I 809 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,080 Speaker 1: can imagine someone who's associated with something like the O 810 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,920 Speaker 1: T O and or those old communists beliefs that he 811 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,200 Speaker 1: even maybe had just back in the day of the 812 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,200 Speaker 1: fun Boys know about um, I can imagine him just 813 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,080 Speaker 1: getting xed off that list. Right. So he found himself 814 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,200 Speaker 1: having to earn money as a manual laborer hospital orderly 815 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,640 Speaker 1: a car mechanic. He was pushed out of science, so 816 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,520 Speaker 1: he dove even deeper into the occult. He ended up 817 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,480 Speaker 1: working for the film industry making explosives, creating pyrotechnics, and 818 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: just before he took a trip to Mexico, or just 819 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: before he was going to leave on a trip of 820 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: planned in nineteen fifty two, he received a large order 821 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,440 Speaker 1: of explosives for a movie and while getting everything together, 822 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,840 Speaker 1: there was an explosion involving mercury. Parsons suffered fatal wounds 823 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,960 Speaker 1: and he died at the age of thirty seven. This 824 00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: was only seven he His death was ruled an accident. 825 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,160 Speaker 1: His friends suspected it was a state sponsored conspiracy to 826 00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:02,680 Speaker 1: remove this dangerous mad genius on the fold. And that's 827 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:07,239 Speaker 1: where it stops. Parsons controversial private life lead him to 828 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,920 Speaker 1: be wiped from NASA history and that magic stuff aside, 829 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:16,240 Speaker 1: esoteric orders aside. That's another true cover up, and for 830 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: a long time his role was not acknowledged. According to 831 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,880 Speaker 1: biographer George Pendell, Parsons was written out of the history books, 832 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: his role in rocketry discredited for decades simply because his 833 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,040 Speaker 1: supernatural beliefs did not fit into the other supernatural beliefs 834 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:36,320 Speaker 1: that were more dominant at the time. I mean, that's 835 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,360 Speaker 1: an interesting way of looking at it. Really is. It 836 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:43,200 Speaker 1: really is, and I can identify with that um holy mackerel. 837 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: It makes you wonder about today the people at the 838 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 1: bleeding edge of science, what are their closed door religious 839 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,840 Speaker 1: beliefs bio hackers and stuff. Yeah, bio hackers. I mean 840 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,439 Speaker 1: even like maybe your Illen Musk and some of those 841 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,160 Speaker 1: people out there right now that can essentially do anything 842 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,920 Speaker 1: they want to do at any time. What are their 843 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 1: spiritual beliefs? And is there anything that's hidden enough that 844 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,480 Speaker 1: we won't know about it? Oh? I see, Yeah, that's 845 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:18,760 Speaker 1: a fascinating question anything. You know what. You had the 846 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:25,600 Speaker 1: opportunity to ask someone about this earlier today, you and 847 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: you and Paul both we didn't forget folks missed that opportunity. 848 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: There is a story here, and it's a story that 849 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,439 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed hearing. I know that we've been going along, 850 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,040 Speaker 1: but can can you give us just like the broad strokes, 851 00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:45,640 Speaker 1: the brad strokes. Okay, you're there, the broad strokes. Um. 852 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,920 Speaker 1: Right before that we started recording this episode. I walked in. 853 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,720 Speaker 1: I was heading in a little bit early so I 854 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,640 Speaker 1: could continue researching here. And I was running late. Ben 855 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 1: was Ben was not quite in the office yet. Uh. 856 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: And our prey is an ind of our network. His 857 00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,040 Speaker 1: name's Conald Burne. He was showing somebody around the office 858 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: and I'm gathering up my computer and my books and everything, 859 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,880 Speaker 1: and I'm heading in. And you know, I don't think 860 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,880 Speaker 1: about that because our president walks around with important people 861 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,800 Speaker 1: all the time. I don't know who walk around with anyway. Um. 862 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: Donald says, hey, Matt, this is my friend Brad And 863 00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, I just turn and put my hand out 864 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,040 Speaker 1: and it's just is Bradley Cooper standing there staring at me. 865 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 1: Um with those beautiful blue eyes. My goodness, they're striking. 866 00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,080 Speaker 1: But anyway, here's the thing, and I hope, I hope 867 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:41,760 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be upset to mention this. But we begin chatting, 868 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 1: and we get into some conversations about the Apollo missions, 869 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,840 Speaker 1: and then he wants to talk a little bit about 870 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,000 Speaker 1: September eleven, and then we want to talk about a 871 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,120 Speaker 1: little bit about these other conspiracies, and uh, the guy 872 00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,720 Speaker 1: I think would fit right in with us um and 873 00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,960 Speaker 1: and perhaps that's just because he's such an enigmatic person 874 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,640 Speaker 1: that he will engage you in anything you want to 875 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,880 Speaker 1: talk about. But I did not bring up either of 876 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:13,000 Speaker 1: those subjects. So there you go. So there you go. 877 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:19,440 Speaker 1: How Matt and Paul met Bradley Cooper, Yes, and Paul 878 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,560 Speaker 1: Paul met Bradley a little later over by the water 879 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,640 Speaker 1: cooler and they had a very nice conversation about his 880 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 1: new movie coming out by the way, that he is 881 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,280 Speaker 1: his directorial debut and he's working with Lady Gaga. Is 882 01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,440 Speaker 1: called a Star is Born. There you go, plug for 883 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:40,480 Speaker 1: Bradley Cooper. You're welcome, brad uh and thank you everyone 884 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,360 Speaker 1: for tuning in. We we want to know where you 885 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: land on this, I think. Now the story of Jack 886 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,880 Speaker 1: Parsons and his legacy is a little more apparent in 887 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,120 Speaker 1: the public sphere. It's more common knowledge. But do you 888 01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:00,920 Speaker 1: feel that as a society our norms limit or ability 889 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,040 Speaker 1: to innovate technologically, you know what I mean? Like interesting, 890 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,560 Speaker 1: like the US government and this may apply. This surely 891 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,520 Speaker 1: applies to other governments as well. The US government in 892 01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,280 Speaker 1: the past had a very difficult time hiring quality hackers 893 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:20,400 Speaker 1: because of their affinity for drugs. And you know, they 894 01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:25,520 Speaker 1: were brilliant minds, brilliant computer people, but they didn't want 895 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,440 Speaker 1: to stop smoking weed or stop you know, doing whatever 896 01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,920 Speaker 1: drug they do. And they have to be clean to 897 01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:37,560 Speaker 1: pass the security clearance. That's fascinating. So eventually they, I 898 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,960 Speaker 1: believe in many cases, eventually the US government just folded 899 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,600 Speaker 1: and made exceptions to the rule. Do you think those 900 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 1: exceptions should exist? Let us know. You can find us 901 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:51,720 Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, check out our community page. Here's 902 01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,120 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, where there are tons of fascinating 903 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,560 Speaker 1: conversations in the mean game is a double plus good? 904 01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,200 Speaker 1: It really is? Okay, and uh, if you want to 905 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,920 Speaker 1: give us a call, you can reach us at our 906 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,400 Speaker 1: number one eight three three s t d W y 907 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,480 Speaker 1: t K. That's stuff they don't want you to know. Uh. 908 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,880 Speaker 1: You you can reach us that way, leave us a 909 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,440 Speaker 1: voicemail you might get on the air in the future 910 01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,040 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do any of that stuff, 911 01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:22,920 Speaker 1: and also buy tickets to our live shows if you 912 01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,360 Speaker 1: haven't already done that, uh stuff they don't want you 913 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,600 Speaker 1: to know. Dot com slash live shows. We're coming to 914 01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 1: a city near you, hopefully, and it's uh, it's one 915 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,280 Speaker 1: of the best ways to get a tour T shirt 916 01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,120 Speaker 1: there you go, So do all that stuff. But if 917 01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:36,840 Speaker 1: you don't want to do any of that, and you 918 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,080 Speaker 1: still have a suggestion or a comment or anything you 919 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 1: want to chat with us about, write us a good 920 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,880 Speaker 1: old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at how stuff words 921 01:02:45,000 --> 01:03:05,760 Speaker 1: dot com.