Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to voter Nomics, where politics and markets collimb.
Speaker 2: This year, voters around the world have the ability to
Speaker 2: affect markets, countries, and economies like never before, so we
Speaker 2: created this series to help you make sense of it all.
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Flanders.
Speaker 3: I'm Adrian Waldridge, and I'm Alegristratton.
Speaker 2: In this week's show, perhaps unsurprisingly, we are focusing on
Speaker 2: the Middle East, where the horrific loss of life and
Speaker 2: creeping escalation of the conflict between Israel and its enemies
Speaker 2: had been taking all the daily headlines this past twelve months.
Speaker 2: But beneath the surface, it's arguably the collision between politics
Speaker 2: and economics that will determine where the region heads next.
Speaker 2: And one big question coming out of all this that
Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about in various ways is
Speaker 2: how the events of the past twelve months are inflaming
Speaker 2: tensions not just in Israel but in neighboring countries and
Speaker 2: whether that could produce another Arab spring. One of our guests,
Speaker 2: Eugene Candell, former head of the Israeli Economic Council and
Speaker 2: economic advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin NT. Yahoo between two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine and twenty fifteen. We're going to get
Speaker 2: his thoughts on Israel's economic and political trajectory and if
Speaker 2: he still thinks there is any chance of Israel achieving
Speaker 2: its goal of being a true regional economic force, which
Speaker 2: it might well have hoped to become eighteen months ago
Speaker 2: when we were talking about normalization of relations with Saudi
Speaker 2: Arabia and anything that followed from that. In a minute,
Speaker 2: we'll be getting our on the ground view from Bloomberg
Speaker 2: reporter Sam Dagger, who's based in Dubai and reade a
Speaker 2: fascinating piece in the last few days about the dilemma
Speaker 2: facing Arab governments. Some of them are still prioritizing those
Speaker 2: close ties with the US in Israel, but that's in
Speaker 2: the face of increasingly vocal swaths of their population who
Speaker 2: are turning towards groups and politicians that they see as
Speaker 2: standing up better to the Israeli government and defending the
Speaker 2: rights of Palestinians. We're going to get to Sam in
Speaker 2: a minute, but Adrian, I mean one thing that struck
Speaker 2: me when we decided to focus this show on the
Speaker 2: Middle East, but often when we talk about what's happened
Speaker 2: in the last twelve months. It tends to be through
Speaker 2: the prism of things going on in our countries or
Speaker 2: other big events around the world, not least the election.
Speaker 2: We tend to talk a lot about what does it
Speaker 2: mean for Michigan and how is it potentially challenging leaders
Speaker 2: in Europe. And I don't feel like we've thought very
Speaker 2: much about what it means for the sort of underlying
Speaker 2: living standards and economic conditions of people in the Middle East,
Speaker 2: not justin Gaza, but what the future strategy is for
Speaker 2: all these countries that were hoping that they were going
Speaker 2: to draw a little bit closer to Israel.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think we tend to think about the
Speaker 3: sort of the Iranian access of influence. We're not focusing
Speaker 3: anywhere near enough on Saudi Arabia and its economic ambitions
Speaker 3: and extraordinary achievements, really.
Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the things that I'm
Speaker 2: interested to talk about to Sam. It was Saudi government
Speaker 2: that has made a very big play for economic development,
Speaker 2: and it still seems to be quite keen on having
Speaker 2: relationships with Israel be part of that.
Speaker 4: I think your your opening point is right, Steph, which
Speaker 4: is the conditions for people living in these countries in
Speaker 4: the Middle East, and the conditioners were ripe for the
Speaker 4: Arab Spring, which is many, many years ago, and now
Speaker 4: that we have to assume that they will be even
Speaker 4: more ripe for you know, overthrowing revolution and so on,
Speaker 4: because people are feeling even more like they don't see
Speaker 4: the economic opportunities and that the future is even less
Speaker 4: clear for them. So I think it will be fascinating
Speaker 4: to hear from Sam about the conditions on the ground.
Speaker 4: I was reporting them at least in twenty five twenty
Speaker 4: oh six, around the time of great optimism, when there
Speaker 4: was lots of you know, the franchise and the vote
Speaker 4: being given to more people in Arab nations. So there
Speaker 4: was a great deal of opt that then withered away
Speaker 4: when Rafi Careri, who was the leader in Lebanon, was assassinated.
Speaker 4: So you have these these ebbs and flows in the
Speaker 4: Middle East, and it's hard to see how it's particularly higher,
Speaker 4: but at the moment, you know, there's been a lot
Speaker 4: of discussion around the past year about whether the conflict
Speaker 4: potentially between Benjamin Etnia, who's personal objectives were staying in office,
Speaker 4: avoiding various court cases, and the sort of long term
Speaker 4: interest of the country and whether he's undermining the sort
Speaker 4: of future security of the nation in order to try
Speaker 4: and protect his position. But you know, of course, the
Speaker 4: corollary to that is he's undermining the economic future of
Speaker 4: Israel as well.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, if you go back to before October the seventh,
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a very general optimistic mood around
Speaker 3: the place, and an optimistic mood which is partly on
Speaker 3: the fact that the Israeli economy was doing extremely well,
Speaker 3: but also on the idea that Israel would forge close
Speaker 3: relations with Saudi Arabia and other sort of economically vibrant
Speaker 3: forces in that region. What it's all been modified in
Speaker 3: various significant ways now.
Speaker 2: Gulf nations certainly that there isn't really a plan B.
Speaker 2: You know, they were building, they were vesting their continued
Speaker 2: sort of global heft in part on being able to
Speaker 2: sort of assume away the Palestinian problem and build their
Speaker 2: relations with Israel. Anyway, the loads of discuss we should
Speaker 2: get onto someone who knows even more about it than
Speaker 2: the three of us, which is Sam Daga. Sam, thank
Speaker 2: you very much for joining us. You cover a lot
Speaker 2: of countries in the region, primarily Saudi Arabia, But I
Speaker 2: know that you've also been roving quite widely, and you
Speaker 2: wrote I thought a great story recently about the dilemma
Speaker 2: facing Israel's Arab neighbors, which we've touched on just there,
Speaker 2: but maybe just spell that out for us.
Speaker 5: Sure, Thank you very much, Stephanie and everyone. I mean,
Speaker 5: I will start with Jordan, where I was a week ago,
Speaker 5: and I could tell you like Jordan literally and figuratively
Speaker 5: sits at the heart of the ever shifting sands of
Speaker 5: the Middle East, as the US Institute of Peace said
Speaker 5: in a report last month. Today its population of eleven million,
Speaker 5: sixty percent of those are of Palestinian origin, including King
Speaker 5: Abdullah's wife, Queen Rania. Later this month will mark the
Speaker 5: thirtieth anniversary of the peace treaty between Israel and Jordan,
Speaker 5: and the bilateral aid that Jordan depends on from the
Speaker 5: US is largely, you know, contingent upon maintaining this treaty.
Speaker 5: Jordan is central to this US vision of a region
Speaker 5: in which Israel is integrated economically, militarily. Jordan is also
Speaker 5: reliant heavily on aid from the oil rich countries of
Speaker 5: the region like Saudi Arabia and the UAE, and more
Speaker 5: importantly I mean for these countries. Jordan is actually the
Speaker 5: last piece of the puzzle in this sort of Iranian
Speaker 5: arc of influence in the Middle East, the so called
Speaker 5: Axis of resistance. It is the only country where Iran
Speaker 5: does it have real influence, either through the government or
Speaker 5: through militant groups like Hesbelan Lebanon or the or the
Speaker 5: militias in Iraq. So it is absolutely crucial for these countries.
Speaker 5: October seventh and the aftermath has really been a huge
Speaker 5: dilemma for Jordan because there's real pressure from the population
Speaker 5: itself to sever all ties with Israel, to renounce the treaty,
Speaker 5: to actually ask US troops to leave. This is what
Speaker 5: people on the streets are demanding. And then last month,
Speaker 5: the Islamic Action Front one the most votes parliamentary elections
Speaker 5: that were held there. It is the king that appoints
Speaker 5: the government. It's the king who actually can dissolve the
Speaker 5: parliament at any time. But he's under tremendous pressure and we
Speaker 5: see that in the rhetoric of Jordanis leadership. You had
Speaker 5: the King of Jordan last month addressing the UN General
Speaker 5: Assembly railing against Israel's what he called terror in Gaza.
Speaker 2: At the same time as participating in that effort to
Speaker 2: prevent the Iranian missiles from getting to Israel one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: They say, quote, we will not allow any alien objects
Speaker 5: to come through borders. I mean, that's the language they use.
Speaker 3: How sustainable is this tension between you know, the street
Speaker 3: on the one hand and the policy of the regime
Speaker 3: on the other hand.
Speaker 5: It is really under pressure at the moment, and Gulf states,
Speaker 5: particularly Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates, are really worried
Speaker 5: about this because they feel like there's this almost combustible
Speaker 5: mix between this rage on the street toward what's happening
Speaker 5: in Gaza and now Lebanon, coupled with real economic grievances there.
Speaker 4: So it sounds like, Sam, everything you're suggesting would indicate
Speaker 4: a second Arab spring.
Speaker 5: No, I mean, we have to be careful, very straightforward.
Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like it sounds like a recipe for
Speaker 4: people rising up. But I think you don't think it's
Speaker 4: that straightforward.
Speaker 5: This is what a lot of experts are saying, and
Speaker 5: this is also what a lot of officials in Riyad
Speaker 5: and Abu Dhabi are worried about. I spoke to people
Speaker 5: who are close to the leadership here, who meet with
Speaker 5: officials on a regular basis, and who say that it
Speaker 5: is a real concern at the moment because again of
Speaker 5: what I just mentioned, This this mix between you know,
Speaker 5: the real rage on the street over what's happening in
Speaker 5: Gozla and Lebanon and the rest of the region, and
Speaker 5: this also now what many are calling a reawakened consciousness
Speaker 5: towards the Palestinian cause, and also the sense among you know,
Speaker 5: large segments of the populations across the Arab world, not
Speaker 5: just in Jordan, that we may be suspicious of Iran
Speaker 5: and its motives, we may not like a lot of
Speaker 5: these groups that Iran you know, funds and backs like
Speaker 5: has Balan Habas, but hey, they're the only ones standing
Speaker 5: up to Israel. I mean, that's kind of the narrative
Speaker 5: on the street. And also you've got real economic issues
Speaker 5: in countries like Jordan, where you have unemployment well over
Speaker 5: twenty percent, with youth unemployment alone like around forty percent
Speaker 5: according to I believe World Bank figures.
Speaker 4: I mean, you tell us, but it is not necessarily
Speaker 4: only new, is it. I mean, there's been high levels
Speaker 4: of unemployment for a.
Speaker 2: Very long time.
Speaker 5: Absolutely but in terms of like how how all of
Speaker 5: this is being seen from Abu Dhabi and Riad is
Speaker 5: what this part of the world needs more than anything
Speaker 5: else is economic prosperity and development, and not democracy and
Speaker 5: free speech and resistance, which is iron narrative.
Speaker 3: When we talk about the Hora Spring, I think partly
Speaker 3: of the liberal element of that, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: the demand for demography and democracy, free speech and rolling
Speaker 3: back sort of autocratic dictators. But isn't this new incarnation
Speaker 3: much more sort of Islamacist in its in its inspiration,
Speaker 3: I mean, driven much more by anger and religious further
Speaker 3: than than any liberal elements.
Speaker 5: And not really, not really, because there are a lot
Speaker 5: of liberal elements, including people I've spoken to, you know,
Speaker 5: in Jordan elsewhere, who are saying, we don't agree with
Speaker 5: the Islamists, we don't share their ideology. But again, it's
Speaker 5: the sense of this camitment to the Palestinian cause that's
Speaker 5: kind of been reawakened all over the region.
Speaker 2: Also, going back to the Arab Spring, what's happened since then?
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's coming up for fourteen years
Speaker 2: in December, but you've had the sort of reassertion of
Speaker 2: autocracy and authoritarian regimes, most of the places which had
Speaker 2: previously seen more democracy, whether in Bahrain, Egypt, Tunisia that
Speaker 2: the Tunisian populist leader was re elected last week, but
Speaker 2: with not a very sort of lively democracy behind him.
Speaker 2: And then you have those are the sort of Saudi
Speaker 2: UAE backed countries, but you also have leban and Syria,
Speaker 2: Yemen on the Iran side, and I guess the problem
Speaker 2: is that none of them, those authoritarian regimes have been
Speaker 2: able to deliver economically in a way to shore up support,
Speaker 2: and that it feels like what you're saying is that
Speaker 2: all of that has just paved the way for this
Speaker 2: because there's nothing tying the Arab street to the regime
Speaker 2: in the way that they had hoped there would be
Speaker 2: with this kind of economic success.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, And I would just you know, ask Stephanie
Speaker 5: that in the countries that you mentioned that are seen
Speaker 5: as being within sort of the sphere of influence of Iran,
Speaker 5: like Lebanon, like Iraq, like Syria, like Yemen, I mean,
Speaker 5: these countries have not fared any better economically. I mean
Speaker 5: Lebanon has faced its worst economic crisis ever, I mean
Speaker 5: since its creation. It is a bleak picture all around.
Speaker 2: The most expansive economic vision of courses come from Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 2: and that's the one that we've perhaps heard most about
Speaker 2: outside the region because money is coming out of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2: But also there's these very grand schemes that Muhammad bin
Speaker 2: Summan has for the country. Is there a serious challenge
Speaker 2: out of all this for Saudi Arabia or is the
Speaker 2: regime there really immovable?
Speaker 5: I would say there is, and they would admit to
Speaker 5: it themselves in private conversations. I mean, people who are
Speaker 5: close to the royal court, they feel there is a
Speaker 5: real risk here, particularly, you know, given what I just described,
Speaker 5: this kind of reawakened interest and consciousness, you know, toward
Speaker 5: you know, the Palestinian cause, including in Saudi Arabia itself.
Speaker 5: And I wrote a piece in May I believe about
Speaker 5: how the government was over there. The security forces and
Speaker 5: the intelligence services were actually arresting people who are posting
Speaker 5: anything relating to the Israel Hamas conflict that they are
Speaker 5: that they do not approve of. That's their way of
Speaker 5: asserting control. But a lot of people would argue that's
Speaker 5: not sustainable because while Vision twenty thirty has made a
Speaker 5: lot of progress, particularly when it comes to women, unemployment,
Speaker 5: to certain social changes in Saudi Arabia. It has made
Speaker 5: a tremendous progress. But you know, based again on some
Speaker 5: one dozen trips that I've made to Saudi Arabia in
Speaker 5: over the past couple of years, this vision has not
Speaker 5: reached beyond like the big the big cities Riyad and Jeddah.
Speaker 5: I mean, if you go to some of these other
Speaker 5: sort of places, uh, it's really a bix bag. And
Speaker 5: and people, people do have grievances, economic grievances, even in
Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia. So the leadership is aware of that.
Speaker 3: We have this huge event coming in in the film
Speaker 3: of the American election. Can you give any sense of
Speaker 3: what impacts either of the two results might have on
Speaker 3: the on.
Speaker 2: Just toasted a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3: You know, how is that going to play out in
Speaker 3: this region?
Speaker 5: God, you're the other spot. Okay. We know that that
Speaker 5: a lot of the leaderships in the Gulf States had
Speaker 5: had enjoyed, you know, very good, very good and warm
Speaker 5: ties with with the Trump administration. If you remember that
Speaker 5: famous first visit to to Red the Sword exactly. But
Speaker 5: I mean, and here's the caveat.
Speaker 2: I mean, you had the Secret Service is not going
Speaker 2: to let him near any swords.
Speaker 5: But the big caveat here. I mean in terms of
Speaker 5: like Saudi Arabia's experience, you know during that period, it
Speaker 5: is like when you had, you know, that huge attack
Speaker 5: on Saudi oil facilities for which the Huthis and Iran
Speaker 5: were blamed. I've seen both being blamed. I mean, the
Speaker 5: Houthis are this militant group that Saudi Arabia itself was
Speaker 5: fighting directly, you know, starting in twenty fourteen after it
Speaker 5: seased power in Yemen, you know, taking over the capital
Speaker 5: Sanna so and back then, you know, from a Saudi perspective,
Speaker 5: you know, Trump did very little to respond to that, right,
Speaker 5: so that kind of made you know, the Saudi leadership
Speaker 5: and also by extension, the leadership here, you know, rethink
Speaker 5: everything and say, like, we really cannot have all our
Speaker 5: eggs in one basket and rely on the US. And
Speaker 5: hence you've seen this this pivot towards China and Russia,
Speaker 5: which has kind of alarmed you know, the Biden reministration,
Speaker 5: particularly people you know in the National Security Council. And
Speaker 5: that's when we saw this this kind of extended hand
Speaker 5: to Saudi Arabia. We were on the cusp of this
Speaker 5: of this grand deal whereby you know, uh, Saudi Arabia
Speaker 5: was going to get potentially potentially again we we we
Speaker 5: don't know all the specifics, but potentially you know, this
Speaker 5: this very solid defense fact with the United States, this
Speaker 5: this agreement to to develop nuclear technology, this new strategic
Speaker 5: relationship with the United States. It returned for normalizing ties
Speaker 5: with with Israel, and all of that came to a halt.
Speaker 2: So and we could do this all day, it doesn't
Speaker 2: It does sound like we should probably talk to you
Speaker 2: again at the end of the year, after we or
Speaker 2: maybe the beginning of next year when we know, when
Speaker 2: we know hopefully who won the US president to election
Speaker 2: new the next president is going to be, and maybe
Speaker 2: how you're feeling about that question for for the region.
Speaker 2: But thank you so much for this. It was fascinating,
Speaker 2: my pleasure.
Speaker 5: I really enjoyed it, and I really do hope we
Speaker 5: do it again.
Speaker 2: Thank you, And now we can talk to Eugene Candel
Speaker 2: in Jerusalem, previously head of the National Economic Council and
Speaker 2: economic advisor to Prime Minister Binyaminnett and Yahoo between twenty
Speaker 2: nine and twenty fifteen. He's been many other things, including
Speaker 2: the CEO of the startup Nation, central economics professor at
Speaker 2: Hebrew University, and the co founder of Israel's Strategic Futures Institute. Eugene,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining us. Obviously, particularly in
Speaker 2: the last few days, we've focused enormously on the human
Speaker 2: and psychological cost of the past twelve month. Because of
Speaker 2: the focus of this podcast, I'm wanting to ask you
Speaker 2: how costly has this period been for Israel's economy and
Speaker 2: indeed like its long term economic model.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, Israeli economy is very resilient. There's a
Speaker 6: military conflict. If you look at the Israeli history of
Speaker 6: let's say stock market to exchange rates or growth statistics,
Speaker 6: and you look at annual statistics, you would not know
Speaker 6: that Israel had several wars, whether it's in two thousand
Speaker 6: and six, twenty twelve, twenty fourteen, you would barely detectiven
Speaker 6: the global financial crisis. So the economy is very resilient.
Speaker 6: But at the same time, this war is different from
Speaker 6: the previous military experiences that Israel had because it's much longer.
Speaker 6: It's probably the longest war that we ever had. It
Speaker 6: is much more difficult because we have to fight on
Speaker 6: multiple fronts, and so the cost of this war is
Speaker 6: significant for the economy going forward. Will have to figure
Speaker 6: out how to deal with it.
Speaker 2: I hear what you say about the resilience of this
Speaker 2: radio economy, which is apparent, but a lot of people
Speaker 2: have emphasized to me that it's in the periods of
Speaker 2: the relative peace, when at least there's been a sort
Speaker 2: of stable status quo in the conflict. It's in that
Speaker 2: period where Israel has really come into its own as
Speaker 2: a tech powerhouse, has been hugely dynamic. I'm interested in
Speaker 2: how that part of the economy kind of holds onto
Speaker 2: its dynamism and how keen it is to stay in
Speaker 2: Israel in an environment when there is so much uncertainty
Speaker 2: and when so much money is being shoveled into the
Speaker 2: war effort.
Speaker 6: Well, there are a couple of things what you call
Speaker 6: peace period. We now understand that it was a period
Speaker 6: of build up by our enemies to try to destroy us,
Speaker 6: which obviously failed, But it was to some extent period
Speaker 6: for us to build our capabilities, and I think we've
Speaker 6: shown them to the world in the last months. Of
Speaker 6: what we can do when we set our mind to it,
Speaker 6: we create the correct policies, and if we bring back
Speaker 6: the the dynamism and the hope that that we just
Speaker 6: need to pull together and get out of it, we
Speaker 6: can We can definitely do it, and they will be
Speaker 6: in the forefront.
Speaker 3: The startup immunity is presumably very mobile and very interlinked
Speaker 3: with Silicon valleyes full of people who can will work
Speaker 3: anywhere in the world, but certainly in the United States.
Speaker 6: Is that a problem that is definitely a problem, that's
Speaker 6: a threat. So far, however, most of their community, instead
Speaker 6: of leaving, they came back from where they lived, or
Speaker 6: much of their people came back and joined the military force.
Speaker 6: And then of course those that live here, a lot
Speaker 6: of them were drafted in the into the reservist duty.
Speaker 6: And the application for the reservist duty at the beginning
Speaker 6: of the war was one hundred and twenty percent, so
Speaker 6: twenty percent more people that were not even called came
Speaker 6: because they flew back from wherever they were. So we
Speaker 6: start from a strong position. The question whether we will
Speaker 6: continue with a strong position is that question, or whether
Speaker 6: we can pull together as people and whether our government
Speaker 6: will create right policies that will allow israel economy to
Speaker 6: grow much faster.
Speaker 3: What you's asking about the manpower side of things, which is,
Speaker 3: you know, the political coalition that netting arrests on is
Speaker 3: very the Orthodox community is very well represented. How do
Speaker 3: you deal with the fact that the Orthodox community doesn't,
Speaker 3: as far as I can say, you know, take part
Speaker 3: in the military, take a big part in the economy,
Speaker 3: and it's getting bigger as a percentage of the population.
Speaker 6: It is one of the internal threats that we have
Speaker 6: to come to terms with. And the problem is not
Speaker 6: this government or the government. The problem is structural.
Speaker 5: We have.
Speaker 6: A structural demographic problem of large population that designed to
Speaker 6: jump into the safety net of the welfare state together
Speaker 6: rather than individual and unfortunately the welfare state safety is
Speaker 6: not designed for you know, a million and a half
Speaker 6: people jumping into it together and reproducing the record rate.
Speaker 6: So we will have to deal with that. This war
Speaker 6: made it plain and clear that the things cannot go
Speaker 6: forward as they were progressing until today. It is still
Speaker 6: this government cannot really do much about it because it
Speaker 6: hinges on the coalition partners. But it's obvious to everybody,
Speaker 6: including the members of the coalition, that going forward has
Speaker 6: to and has to change. We have to create conditions
Speaker 6: in which, on the one hand, they do not collapse economically.
Speaker 6: On the other hand, they going forward, they face the
Speaker 6: same basic conditions as they face in the UK, or
Speaker 6: in the US or in Belgium, where these populations live
Speaker 6: and thrive, and nobody forces them to be something different.
Speaker 6: Yet nobody allows them to be with you whatever they
Speaker 6: want and base, which is what we go love.
Speaker 2: There was a future that was mapped out for Israel
Speaker 2: within the region a year and a half ago, say,
Speaker 2: as of a year and a half ago, which involved
Speaker 2: we talked about it earlier in the show, normalization of
Speaker 2: relations with Saudi Arabia, deepening of the normalization treaty with
Speaker 2: the UAE, becoming a sort of a regional economic power,
Speaker 2: and having a more stable future in the region because
Speaker 2: of those economic ties. Do you see any prospect of
Speaker 2: that now? And I'm wondering or as a country, is
Speaker 2: the path being charted now entirely military, entirely about self defense?
Speaker 2: And if so, who's going to join with Israel regionally
Speaker 2: in that?
Speaker 6: I think you're placing these two things as contradicting each other,
Speaker 6: and I think that they actually support each other. I
Speaker 6: want to remind you that when Iran was shooting ballistic
Speaker 6: missiles on in April, Saudi Arabia Angel was shooting down
Speaker 6: They want friendship with us and we want friendship with them.
Speaker 6: And the collaboration, by the way under the table has
Speaker 6: been happening for many, many years. And the fact that.
Speaker 7: Iran has been trying to and Commas we're trying to
Speaker 7: attack us so early is because we were very close
Speaker 7: to signing an agreement with Savi and so the idea
Speaker 7: was to derail. We cannot sign an agreement with Saudy
Speaker 7: as if we don't exist, we're continuously being under threat
Speaker 7: of annihilation.
Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that one of the questions was about
Speaker 2: whether or not this government would be able to take
Speaker 2: the decisions and push through policies that could help strengthen
Speaker 2: the economy and the basis for that sort of particularly
Speaker 2: that the tech sector and startup nation. Do you see
Speaker 2: this government being able to make those investments, take those
Speaker 2: decisions or did you think any government could in this
Speaker 2: kind of environment.
Speaker 6: If you ask me whether this is the best go
Speaker 6: best coalition for this type of scenario, I would definitely
Speaker 6: tell you that it's not whether you ask me whether
Speaker 6: there is anything we can do about it, the answer
Speaker 6: is no. Because this is a democratically elected government which
Speaker 6: has another two years on its clock until it has
Speaker 6: to go to elections.
Speaker 2: Do you think this government will last the full time
Speaker 2: this coalition?
Speaker 6: It is real.
Speaker 2: A year ago, no one would have bet on that.
Speaker 2: So I'm interested that you say that in passing Well.
Speaker 6: Actually, my view was that this government will survive for
Speaker 6: most of its term, even after October seventh, because there
Speaker 6: were no you know, legal forces that could bring it down,
Speaker 6: and the members of the coalition were not definitely were
Speaker 6: not interested to go to the electorate right after this disaster.
Speaker 6: It right now, I think there are two possible ways
Speaker 6: of this government going to elections. Ay that wanting the
Speaker 6: small right wing parties will bring it down because it
Speaker 6: will not want to go to the to the elections
Speaker 6: because they haven't done anything that they promised, or that
Speaker 6: the Prime Ministry decides that it's a fortunate time for
Speaker 6: him because of various successes on the military, to go
Speaker 6: for an election. That's that's what I think might happen. Otherwise,
Speaker 6: I think it will survive till till the end of.
Speaker 2: Its term eusine. Thank you very much, Yes, thank you
Speaker 2: very much.
Speaker 6: Absolutely well.
Speaker 2: That's it for this week's voter nomics from Bloomberg. Thank
Speaker 2: you for listening. This episode was hosted by me Sephanie
Speaker 2: Flanders with the Legro Stratton and Adrian Wildridge. It was
Speaker 2: produced as effort by Samasadi, with production support from Chris
Speaker 2: Mark Lou and Isabella Ward and sound design by Moses Ander.
Speaker 2: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer and Sage Bowman
Speaker 2: is Head of Podcasts. With special thanks this week to
Speaker 2: Sam Dagger and Eugene Candell