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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to voter Nomics, where politics and markets collimb.

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Speaker 2: This year, voters around the world have the ability to

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Speaker 2: affect markets, countries, and economies like never before, so we

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Speaker 2: created this series to help you make sense of it all.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Flanders.

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Speaker 3: I'm Adrian Waldridge, and I'm Alegristratton.

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Speaker 2: In this week's show, perhaps unsurprisingly, we are focusing on

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Speaker 2: the Middle East, where the horrific loss of life and

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Speaker 2: creeping escalation of the conflict between Israel and its enemies

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Speaker 2: had been taking all the daily headlines this past twelve months.

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Speaker 2: But beneath the surface, it's arguably the collision between politics

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Speaker 2: and economics that will determine where the region heads next.

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Speaker 2: And one big question coming out of all this that

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Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about in various ways is

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Speaker 2: how the events of the past twelve months are inflaming

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Speaker 2: tensions not just in Israel but in neighboring countries and

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Speaker 2: whether that could produce another Arab spring. One of our guests,

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Speaker 2: Eugene Candell, former head of the Israeli Economic Council and

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Speaker 2: economic advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin NT. Yahoo between two

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Speaker 2: thousand and nine and twenty fifteen. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: his thoughts on Israel's economic and political trajectory and if

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Speaker 2: he still thinks there is any chance of Israel achieving

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Speaker 2: its goal of being a true regional economic force, which

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Speaker 2: it might well have hoped to become eighteen months ago

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Speaker 2: when we were talking about normalization of relations with Saudi

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Speaker 2: Arabia and anything that followed from that. In a minute,

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Speaker 2: we'll be getting our on the ground view from Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: reporter Sam Dagger, who's based in Dubai and reade a

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Speaker 2: fascinating piece in the last few days about the dilemma

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Speaker 2: facing Arab governments. Some of them are still prioritizing those

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Speaker 2: close ties with the US in Israel, but that's in

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Speaker 2: the face of increasingly vocal swaths of their population who

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Speaker 2: are turning towards groups and politicians that they see as

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Speaker 2: standing up better to the Israeli government and defending the

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Speaker 2: rights of Palestinians. We're going to get to Sam in

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Speaker 2: a minute, but Adrian, I mean one thing that struck

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Speaker 2: me when we decided to focus this show on the

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Speaker 2: Middle East, but often when we talk about what's happened

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Speaker 2: in the last twelve months. It tends to be through

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Speaker 2: the prism of things going on in our countries or

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Speaker 2: other big events around the world, not least the election.

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Speaker 2: We tend to talk a lot about what does it

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Speaker 2: mean for Michigan and how is it potentially challenging leaders

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Speaker 2: in Europe. And I don't feel like we've thought very

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Speaker 2: much about what it means for the sort of underlying

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Speaker 2: living standards and economic conditions of people in the Middle East,

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Speaker 2: not justin Gaza, but what the future strategy is for

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Speaker 2: all these countries that were hoping that they were going

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Speaker 2: to draw a little bit closer to Israel.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think we tend to think about the

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Speaker 3: sort of the Iranian access of influence. We're not focusing

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Speaker 3: anywhere near enough on Saudi Arabia and its economic ambitions

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Speaker 3: and extraordinary achievements, really.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the things that I'm

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Speaker 2: interested to talk about to Sam. It was Saudi government

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Speaker 2: that has made a very big play for economic development,

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Speaker 2: and it still seems to be quite keen on having

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Speaker 2: relationships with Israel be part of that.

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Speaker 4: I think your your opening point is right, Steph, which

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Speaker 4: is the conditions for people living in these countries in

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Speaker 4: the Middle East, and the conditioners were ripe for the

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Speaker 4: Arab Spring, which is many, many years ago, and now

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Speaker 4: that we have to assume that they will be even

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Speaker 4: more ripe for you know, overthrowing revolution and so on,

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Speaker 4: because people are feeling even more like they don't see

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Speaker 4: the economic opportunities and that the future is even less

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Speaker 4: clear for them. So I think it will be fascinating

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Speaker 4: to hear from Sam about the conditions on the ground.

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Speaker 4: I was reporting them at least in twenty five twenty

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Speaker 4: oh six, around the time of great optimism, when there

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Speaker 4: was lots of you know, the franchise and the vote

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Speaker 4: being given to more people in Arab nations. So there

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Speaker 4: was a great deal of opt that then withered away

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Speaker 4: when Rafi Careri, who was the leader in Lebanon, was assassinated.

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Speaker 4: So you have these these ebbs and flows in the

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Speaker 4: Middle East, and it's hard to see how it's particularly higher,

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Speaker 4: but at the moment, you know, there's been a lot

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Speaker 4: of discussion around the past year about whether the conflict

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Speaker 4: potentially between Benjamin Etnia, who's personal objectives were staying in office,

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Speaker 4: avoiding various court cases, and the sort of long term

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Speaker 4: interest of the country and whether he's undermining the sort

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Speaker 4: of future security of the nation in order to try

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Speaker 4: and protect his position. But you know, of course, the

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Speaker 4: corollary to that is he's undermining the economic future of

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Speaker 4: Israel as well.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, if you go back to before October the seventh,

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Speaker 3: I mean, there was a very general optimistic mood around

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Speaker 3: the place, and an optimistic mood which is partly on

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Speaker 3: the fact that the Israeli economy was doing extremely well,

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Speaker 3: but also on the idea that Israel would forge close

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Speaker 3: relations with Saudi Arabia and other sort of economically vibrant

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Speaker 3: forces in that region. What it's all been modified in

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Speaker 3: various significant ways now.

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Speaker 2: Gulf nations certainly that there isn't really a plan B.

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Speaker 2: You know, they were building, they were vesting their continued

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Speaker 2: sort of global heft in part on being able to

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Speaker 2: sort of assume away the Palestinian problem and build their

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Speaker 2: relations with Israel. Anyway, the loads of discuss we should

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Speaker 2: get onto someone who knows even more about it than

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Speaker 2: the three of us, which is Sam Daga. Sam, thank

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Speaker 2: you very much for joining us. You cover a lot

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Speaker 2: of countries in the region, primarily Saudi Arabia, But I

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Speaker 2: know that you've also been roving quite widely, and you

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Speaker 2: wrote I thought a great story recently about the dilemma

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Speaker 2: facing Israel's Arab neighbors, which we've touched on just there,

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Speaker 2: but maybe just spell that out for us.

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Speaker 5: Sure, Thank you very much, Stephanie and everyone. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I will start with Jordan, where I was a week ago,

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Speaker 5: and I could tell you like Jordan literally and figuratively

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Speaker 5: sits at the heart of the ever shifting sands of

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Speaker 5: the Middle East, as the US Institute of Peace said

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Speaker 5: in a report last month. Today its population of eleven million,

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Speaker 5: sixty percent of those are of Palestinian origin, including King

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Speaker 5: Abdullah's wife, Queen Rania. Later this month will mark the

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Speaker 5: thirtieth anniversary of the peace treaty between Israel and Jordan,

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Speaker 5: and the bilateral aid that Jordan depends on from the

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Speaker 5: US is largely, you know, contingent upon maintaining this treaty.

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Speaker 5: Jordan is central to this US vision of a region

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Speaker 5: in which Israel is integrated economically, militarily. Jordan is also

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Speaker 5: reliant heavily on aid from the oil rich countries of

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Speaker 5: the region like Saudi Arabia and the UAE, and more

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Speaker 5: importantly I mean for these countries. Jordan is actually the

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Speaker 5: last piece of the puzzle in this sort of Iranian

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Speaker 5: arc of influence in the Middle East, the so called

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Speaker 5: Axis of resistance. It is the only country where Iran

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Speaker 5: does it have real influence, either through the government or

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Speaker 5: through militant groups like Hesbelan Lebanon or the or the

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Speaker 5: militias in Iraq. So it is absolutely crucial for these countries.

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Speaker 5: October seventh and the aftermath has really been a huge

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Speaker 5: dilemma for Jordan because there's real pressure from the population

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Speaker 5: itself to sever all ties with Israel, to renounce the treaty,

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Speaker 5: to actually ask US troops to leave. This is what

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Speaker 5: people on the streets are demanding. And then last month,

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Speaker 5: the Islamic Action Front one the most votes parliamentary elections

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Speaker 5: that were held there. It is the king that appoints

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Speaker 5: the government. It's the king who actually can dissolve the

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Speaker 5: parliament at any time. But he's under tremendous pressure and we

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Speaker 5: see that in the rhetoric of Jordanis leadership. You had

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Speaker 5: the King of Jordan last month addressing the UN General

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Speaker 5: Assembly railing against Israel's what he called terror in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: At the same time as participating in that effort to

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Speaker 2: prevent the Iranian missiles from getting to Israel one hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: They say, quote, we will not allow any alien objects

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Speaker 5: to come through borders. I mean, that's the language they use.

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Speaker 3: How sustainable is this tension between you know, the street

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Speaker 3: on the one hand and the policy of the regime

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Speaker 3: on the other hand.

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Speaker 5: It is really under pressure at the moment, and Gulf states,

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Speaker 5: particularly Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates, are really worried

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Speaker 5: about this because they feel like there's this almost combustible

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Speaker 5: mix between this rage on the street toward what's happening

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Speaker 5: in Gaza and now Lebanon, coupled with real economic grievances there.

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Speaker 4: So it sounds like, Sam, everything you're suggesting would indicate

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Speaker 4: a second Arab spring.

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Speaker 5: No, I mean, we have to be careful, very straightforward.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like it sounds like a recipe for

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Speaker 4: people rising up. But I think you don't think it's

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Speaker 4: that straightforward.

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Speaker 5: This is what a lot of experts are saying, and

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Speaker 5: this is also what a lot of officials in Riyad

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Speaker 5: and Abu Dhabi are worried about. I spoke to people

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Speaker 5: who are close to the leadership here, who meet with

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Speaker 5: officials on a regular basis, and who say that it

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Speaker 5: is a real concern at the moment because again of

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Speaker 5: what I just mentioned, This this mix between you know,

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Speaker 5: the real rage on the street over what's happening in

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Speaker 5: Gozla and Lebanon and the rest of the region, and

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Speaker 5: this also now what many are calling a reawakened consciousness

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Speaker 5: towards the Palestinian cause, and also the sense among you know,

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Speaker 5: large segments of the populations across the Arab world, not

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Speaker 5: just in Jordan, that we may be suspicious of Iran

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Speaker 5: and its motives, we may not like a lot of

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Speaker 5: these groups that Iran you know, funds and backs like

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Speaker 5: has Balan Habas, but hey, they're the only ones standing

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Speaker 5: up to Israel. I mean, that's kind of the narrative

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Speaker 5: on the street. And also you've got real economic issues

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Speaker 5: in countries like Jordan, where you have unemployment well over

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Speaker 5: twenty percent, with youth unemployment alone like around forty percent

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Speaker 5: according to I believe World Bank figures.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you tell us, but it is not necessarily

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Speaker 4: only new, is it. I mean, there's been high levels

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Speaker 4: of unemployment for a.

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Speaker 2: Very long time.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely but in terms of like how how all of

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Speaker 5: this is being seen from Abu Dhabi and Riad is

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Speaker 5: what this part of the world needs more than anything

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Speaker 5: else is economic prosperity and development, and not democracy and

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Speaker 5: free speech and resistance, which is iron narrative.

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Speaker 3: When we talk about the Hora Spring, I think partly

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Speaker 3: of the liberal element of that, which is, you know,

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Speaker 3: the demand for demography and democracy, free speech and rolling

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Speaker 3: back sort of autocratic dictators. But isn't this new incarnation

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Speaker 3: much more sort of Islamacist in its in its inspiration,

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Speaker 3: I mean, driven much more by anger and religious further

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Speaker 3: than than any liberal elements.

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Speaker 5: And not really, not really, because there are a lot

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Speaker 5: of liberal elements, including people I've spoken to, you know,

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Speaker 5: in Jordan elsewhere, who are saying, we don't agree with

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Speaker 5: the Islamists, we don't share their ideology. But again, it's

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Speaker 5: the sense of this camitment to the Palestinian cause that's

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Speaker 5: kind of been reawakened all over the region.

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Speaker 2: Also, going back to the Arab Spring, what's happened since then?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's coming up for fourteen years

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Speaker 2: in December, but you've had the sort of reassertion of

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Speaker 2: autocracy and authoritarian regimes, most of the places which had

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Speaker 2: previously seen more democracy, whether in Bahrain, Egypt, Tunisia that

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Speaker 2: the Tunisian populist leader was re elected last week, but

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Speaker 2: with not a very sort of lively democracy behind him.

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Speaker 2: And then you have those are the sort of Saudi

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Speaker 2: UAE backed countries, but you also have leban and Syria,

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Speaker 2: Yemen on the Iran side, and I guess the problem

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Speaker 2: is that none of them, those authoritarian regimes have been

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Speaker 2: able to deliver economically in a way to shore up support,

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Speaker 2: and that it feels like what you're saying is that

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Speaker 2: all of that has just paved the way for this

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Speaker 2: because there's nothing tying the Arab street to the regime

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Speaker 2: in the way that they had hoped there would be

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Speaker 2: with this kind of economic success.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, And I would just you know, ask Stephanie

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Speaker 5: that in the countries that you mentioned that are seen

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Speaker 5: as being within sort of the sphere of influence of Iran,

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Speaker 5: like Lebanon, like Iraq, like Syria, like Yemen, I mean,

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Speaker 5: these countries have not fared any better economically. I mean

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Speaker 5: Lebanon has faced its worst economic crisis ever, I mean

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Speaker 5: since its creation. It is a bleak picture all around.

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Speaker 2: The most expansive economic vision of courses come from Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 2: and that's the one that we've perhaps heard most about

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Speaker 2: outside the region because money is coming out of Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 2: But also there's these very grand schemes that Muhammad bin

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Speaker 2: Summan has for the country. Is there a serious challenge

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Speaker 2: out of all this for Saudi Arabia or is the

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Speaker 2: regime there really immovable?

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Speaker 5: I would say there is, and they would admit to

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Speaker 5: it themselves in private conversations. I mean, people who are

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Speaker 5: close to the royal court, they feel there is a

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Speaker 5: real risk here, particularly, you know, given what I just described,

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Speaker 5: this kind of reawakened interest and consciousness, you know, toward

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Speaker 5: you know, the Palestinian cause, including in Saudi Arabia itself.

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Speaker 5: And I wrote a piece in May I believe about

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Speaker 5: how the government was over there. The security forces and

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Speaker 5: the intelligence services were actually arresting people who are posting

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Speaker 5: anything relating to the Israel Hamas conflict that they are

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Speaker 5: that they do not approve of. That's their way of

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Speaker 5: asserting control. But a lot of people would argue that's

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Speaker 5: not sustainable because while Vision twenty thirty has made a

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Speaker 5: lot of progress, particularly when it comes to women, unemployment,

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Speaker 5: to certain social changes in Saudi Arabia. It has made

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Speaker 5: a tremendous progress. But you know, based again on some

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Speaker 5: one dozen trips that I've made to Saudi Arabia in

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Speaker 5: over the past couple of years, this vision has not

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Speaker 5: reached beyond like the big the big cities Riyad and Jeddah.

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Speaker 5: I mean, if you go to some of these other

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Speaker 5: sort of places, uh, it's really a bix bag. And

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Speaker 5: and people, people do have grievances, economic grievances, even in

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Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia. So the leadership is aware of that.

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Speaker 3: We have this huge event coming in in the film

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Speaker 3: of the American election. Can you give any sense of

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Speaker 3: what impacts either of the two results might have on

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Speaker 3: the on.

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Speaker 2: Just toasted a couple of minutes.

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Speaker 3: You know, how is that going to play out in

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Speaker 3: this region?

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Speaker 5: God, you're the other spot. Okay. We know that that

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Speaker 5: a lot of the leaderships in the Gulf States had

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Speaker 5: had enjoyed, you know, very good, very good and warm

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Speaker 5: ties with with the Trump administration. If you remember that

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Speaker 5: famous first visit to to Red the Sword exactly. But

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Speaker 5: I mean, and here's the caveat.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you had the Secret Service is not going

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Speaker 2: to let him near any swords.

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Speaker 5: But the big caveat here. I mean in terms of

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Speaker 5: like Saudi Arabia's experience, you know during that period, it

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Speaker 5: is like when you had, you know, that huge attack

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Speaker 5: on Saudi oil facilities for which the Huthis and Iran

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Speaker 5: were blamed. I've seen both being blamed. I mean, the

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Speaker 5: Houthis are this militant group that Saudi Arabia itself was

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Speaker 5: fighting directly, you know, starting in twenty fourteen after it

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Speaker 5: seased power in Yemen, you know, taking over the capital

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Speaker 5: Sanna so and back then, you know, from a Saudi perspective,

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Speaker 5: you know, Trump did very little to respond to that, right,

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Speaker 5: so that kind of made you know, the Saudi leadership

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Speaker 5: and also by extension, the leadership here, you know, rethink

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Speaker 5: everything and say, like, we really cannot have all our

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Speaker 5: eggs in one basket and rely on the US. And

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Speaker 5: hence you've seen this this pivot towards China and Russia,

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Speaker 5: which has kind of alarmed you know, the Biden reministration,

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Speaker 5: particularly people you know in the National Security Council. And

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Speaker 5: that's when we saw this this kind of extended hand

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Speaker 5: to Saudi Arabia. We were on the cusp of this

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Speaker 5: of this grand deal whereby you know, uh, Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 5: was going to get potentially potentially again we we we

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Speaker 5: don't know all the specifics, but potentially you know, this

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Speaker 5: this very solid defense fact with the United States, this

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Speaker 5: this agreement to to develop nuclear technology, this new strategic

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Speaker 5: relationship with the United States. It returned for normalizing ties

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Speaker 5: with with Israel, and all of that came to a halt.

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Speaker 2: So and we could do this all day, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: It does sound like we should probably talk to you

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Speaker 2: again at the end of the year, after we or

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Speaker 2: maybe the beginning of next year when we know, when

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Speaker 2: we know hopefully who won the US president to election

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Speaker 2: new the next president is going to be, and maybe

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Speaker 2: how you're feeling about that question for for the region.

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Speaker 2: But thank you so much for this. It was fascinating,

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Speaker 2: my pleasure.

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Speaker 5: I really enjoyed it, and I really do hope we

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Speaker 5: do it again.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, And now we can talk to Eugene Candel

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Speaker 2: in Jerusalem, previously head of the National Economic Council and

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Speaker 2: economic advisor to Prime Minister Binyaminnett and Yahoo between twenty

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Speaker 2: nine and twenty fifteen. He's been many other things, including

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Speaker 2: the CEO of the startup Nation, central economics professor at

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Speaker 2: Hebrew University, and the co founder of Israel's Strategic Futures Institute. Eugene,

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Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining us. Obviously, particularly in

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Speaker 2: the last few days, we've focused enormously on the human

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Speaker 2: and psychological cost of the past twelve month. Because of

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Speaker 2: the focus of this podcast, I'm wanting to ask you

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Speaker 2: how costly has this period been for Israel's economy and

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Speaker 2: indeed like its long term economic model.

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, Israeli economy is very resilient. There's a

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Speaker 6: military conflict. If you look at the Israeli history of

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Speaker 6: let's say stock market to exchange rates or growth statistics,

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Speaker 6: and you look at annual statistics, you would not know

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Speaker 6: that Israel had several wars, whether it's in two thousand

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Speaker 6: and six, twenty twelve, twenty fourteen, you would barely detectiven

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Speaker 6: the global financial crisis. So the economy is very resilient.

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Speaker 6: But at the same time, this war is different from

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Speaker 6: the previous military experiences that Israel had because it's much longer.

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Speaker 6: It's probably the longest war that we ever had. It

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Speaker 6: is much more difficult because we have to fight on

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Speaker 6: multiple fronts, and so the cost of this war is

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Speaker 6: significant for the economy going forward. Will have to figure

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Speaker 6: out how to deal with it.

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Speaker 2: I hear what you say about the resilience of this

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Speaker 2: radio economy, which is apparent, but a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have emphasized to me that it's in the periods of

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Speaker 2: the relative peace, when at least there's been a sort

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Speaker 2: of stable status quo in the conflict. It's in that

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Speaker 2: period where Israel has really come into its own as

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Speaker 2: a tech powerhouse, has been hugely dynamic. I'm interested in

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Speaker 2: how that part of the economy kind of holds onto

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Speaker 2: its dynamism and how keen it is to stay in

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Speaker 2: Israel in an environment when there is so much uncertainty

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Speaker 2: and when so much money is being shoveled into the

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Speaker 2: war effort.

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Speaker 6: Well, there are a couple of things what you call

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Speaker 6: peace period. We now understand that it was a period

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Speaker 6: of build up by our enemies to try to destroy us,

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Speaker 6: which obviously failed, But it was to some extent period

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Speaker 6: for us to build our capabilities, and I think we've

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Speaker 6: shown them to the world in the last months. Of

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Speaker 6: what we can do when we set our mind to it,

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Speaker 6: we create the correct policies, and if we bring back

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Speaker 6: the the dynamism and the hope that that we just

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Speaker 6: need to pull together and get out of it, we

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Speaker 6: can We can definitely do it, and they will be

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Speaker 6: in the forefront.

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Speaker 3: The startup immunity is presumably very mobile and very interlinked

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Speaker 3: with Silicon valleyes full of people who can will work

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Speaker 3: anywhere in the world, but certainly in the United States.

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Speaker 6: Is that a problem that is definitely a problem, that's

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Speaker 6: a threat. So far, however, most of their community, instead

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Speaker 6: of leaving, they came back from where they lived, or

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Speaker 6: much of their people came back and joined the military force.

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Speaker 6: And then of course those that live here, a lot

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Speaker 6: of them were drafted in the into the reservist duty.

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Speaker 6: And the application for the reservist duty at the beginning

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Speaker 6: of the war was one hundred and twenty percent, so

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Speaker 6: twenty percent more people that were not even called came

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Speaker 6: because they flew back from wherever they were. So we

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Speaker 6: start from a strong position. The question whether we will

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Speaker 6: continue with a strong position is that question, or whether

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Speaker 6: we can pull together as people and whether our government

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Speaker 6: will create right policies that will allow israel economy to

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Speaker 6: grow much faster.

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Speaker 3: What you's asking about the manpower side of things, which is,

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Speaker 3: you know, the political coalition that netting arrests on is

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Speaker 3: very the Orthodox community is very well represented. How do

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Speaker 3: you deal with the fact that the Orthodox community doesn't,

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Speaker 3: as far as I can say, you know, take part

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Speaker 3: in the military, take a big part in the economy,

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Speaker 3: and it's getting bigger as a percentage of the population.

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Speaker 6: It is one of the internal threats that we have

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Speaker 6: to come to terms with. And the problem is not

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Speaker 6: this government or the government. The problem is structural.

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Speaker 5: We have.

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Speaker 6: A structural demographic problem of large population that designed to

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Speaker 6: jump into the safety net of the welfare state together

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Speaker 6: rather than individual and unfortunately the welfare state safety is

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Speaker 6: not designed for you know, a million and a half

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Speaker 6: people jumping into it together and reproducing the record rate.

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Speaker 6: So we will have to deal with that. This war

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Speaker 6: made it plain and clear that the things cannot go

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Speaker 6: forward as they were progressing until today. It is still

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Speaker 6: this government cannot really do much about it because it

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Speaker 6: hinges on the coalition partners. But it's obvious to everybody,

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Speaker 6: including the members of the coalition, that going forward has

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Speaker 6: to and has to change. We have to create conditions

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Speaker 6: in which, on the one hand, they do not collapse economically.

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Speaker 6: On the other hand, they going forward, they face the

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Speaker 6: same basic conditions as they face in the UK, or

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Speaker 6: in the US or in Belgium, where these populations live

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Speaker 6: and thrive, and nobody forces them to be something different.

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Speaker 6: Yet nobody allows them to be with you whatever they

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Speaker 6: want and base, which is what we go love.

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Speaker 2: There was a future that was mapped out for Israel

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Speaker 2: within the region a year and a half ago, say,

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Speaker 2: as of a year and a half ago, which involved

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Speaker 2: we talked about it earlier in the show, normalization of

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Speaker 2: relations with Saudi Arabia, deepening of the normalization treaty with

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Speaker 2: the UAE, becoming a sort of a regional economic power,

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Speaker 2: and having a more stable future in the region because

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Speaker 2: of those economic ties. Do you see any prospect of

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Speaker 2: that now? And I'm wondering or as a country, is

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Speaker 2: the path being charted now entirely military, entirely about self defense?

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Speaker 2: And if so, who's going to join with Israel regionally

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Speaker 2: in that?

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Speaker 6: I think you're placing these two things as contradicting each other,

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Speaker 6: and I think that they actually support each other. I

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Speaker 6: want to remind you that when Iran was shooting ballistic

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Speaker 6: missiles on in April, Saudi Arabia Angel was shooting down

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Speaker 6: They want friendship with us and we want friendship with them.

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Speaker 6: And the collaboration, by the way under the table has

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Speaker 6: been happening for many, many years. And the fact that.

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Speaker 7: Iran has been trying to and Commas we're trying to

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Speaker 7: attack us so early is because we were very close

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Speaker 7: to signing an agreement with Savi and so the idea

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Speaker 7: was to derail. We cannot sign an agreement with Saudy

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Speaker 7: as if we don't exist, we're continuously being under threat

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Speaker 7: of annihilation.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that one of the questions was about

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Speaker 2: whether or not this government would be able to take

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Speaker 2: the decisions and push through policies that could help strengthen

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Speaker 2: the economy and the basis for that sort of particularly

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Speaker 2: that the tech sector and startup nation. Do you see

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Speaker 2: this government being able to make those investments, take those

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Speaker 2: decisions or did you think any government could in this

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Speaker 2: kind of environment.

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Speaker 6: If you ask me whether this is the best go

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Speaker 6: best coalition for this type of scenario, I would definitely

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Speaker 6: tell you that it's not whether you ask me whether

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Speaker 6: there is anything we can do about it, the answer

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Speaker 6: is no. Because this is a democratically elected government which

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Speaker 6: has another two years on its clock until it has

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Speaker 6: to go to elections.

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Speaker 2: Do you think this government will last the full time

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Speaker 2: this coalition?

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Speaker 6: It is real.

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Speaker 2: A year ago, no one would have bet on that.

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Speaker 2: So I'm interested that you say that in passing Well.

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Speaker 6: Actually, my view was that this government will survive for

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Speaker 6: most of its term, even after October seventh, because there

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Speaker 6: were no you know, legal forces that could bring it down,

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Speaker 6: and the members of the coalition were not definitely were

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Speaker 6: not interested to go to the electorate right after this disaster.

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Speaker 6: It right now, I think there are two possible ways

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Speaker 6: of this government going to elections. Ay that wanting the

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Speaker 6: small right wing parties will bring it down because it

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Speaker 6: will not want to go to the to the elections

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Speaker 6: because they haven't done anything that they promised, or that

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Speaker 6: the Prime Ministry decides that it's a fortunate time for

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Speaker 6: him because of various successes on the military, to go

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Speaker 6: for an election. That's that's what I think might happen. Otherwise,

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Speaker 6: I think it will survive till till the end of.

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Speaker 2: Its term eusine. Thank you very much, Yes, thank you

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Speaker 2: very much.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely well.

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Speaker 2: That's it for this week's voter nomics from Bloomberg. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for listening. This episode was hosted by me Sephanie

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Speaker 2: Flanders with the Legro Stratton and Adrian Wildridge. It was

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Speaker 2: produced as effort by Samasadi, with production support from Chris

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Speaker 2: Mark Lou and Isabella Ward and sound design by Moses Ander.

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Speaker 2: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer and Sage Bowman

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Speaker 2: is Head of Podcasts. With special thanks this week to

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Speaker 2: Sam Dagger and Eugene Candell