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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome to Shitty mayor Mondays,

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Speaker 1: a name we're not actually allowed to use as a

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Speaker 1: title of our podcast because it breaks a bunch of

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Speaker 1: search shit in the background. I'm your host, Mio Wong

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Speaker 1: coming to you live from a crumbling basement, and he

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Speaker 1: contested Chicago that may or may not be hit by

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Speaker 1: a tornado in the next hour. This is it could

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Speaker 1: happen here, So truly, it could all happen within this

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Speaker 1: next recording session. It could happen in me It's basement, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: with me of Garrison and James. Hello, Welcome to Hell. Hi,

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Speaker 1: a tornado free San Diego did have a tornado warning yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Luckily I'm in the ever stable Pacific Northwest where nothing

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Speaker 1: bad can happen. Yeah, it's contractually, contractually obligated. It says no, no,

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Speaker 1: no bad things, No no earthquakes here that that are overdue,

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Speaker 1: no forest fires or record temperatures. It's great up there.

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Speaker 1: It's so true. So today we're doing a sort of

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Speaker 1: special episode of Shitty Mayor Mondays, which is that we

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Speaker 1: are we are doing the Chicago double feature because our

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Speaker 1: previous shitty Mayor, Lloyd Lightfoot I, managed to become the

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Speaker 1: first I think I think, the first Chicago mayoral candidate

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Speaker 1: in forty years. She was an incumbent and lost reelection.

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Speaker 1: And not only is she lose reelection, she went out

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Speaker 1: so okay the way the way the Chicago mayor elections

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Speaker 1: have like a trillion candidates, like I think they were

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Speaker 1: like nine this time, and if no one can get

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Speaker 1: about fifty percent, it goes to a runoff, and she

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Speaker 1: got knocked out before the runoff, which is unbelievably funny. Um.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about her first as the sort

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Speaker 1: of loyal Lifewood is sort of the shitty Chicago mayor past,

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Speaker 1: and then we're gonna talk about the maybe future shitty

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Speaker 1: Chicago Mayor, Paul Vallis, who sucks so much that he

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Speaker 1: was the reason I specifically wanted to do this series.

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Speaker 1: But first, what do you talk about? Fucking Lorily Lightfoot?

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Speaker 1: A person who I don't I don't know. I feel

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Speaker 1: like people outside of Chicago don't know much about her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I know that she's like like has gebody

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Speaker 1: failed to do all the things that he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to do and in a kind of general sort of

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Speaker 1: Democrat Matt model has sucked. But I'm excited to hit

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Speaker 1: his specifics. Yeah, she's a super well okay, Ay. The

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Speaker 1: funniest thing about her is it's just just Google pictures

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Speaker 1: of her hats. She has just like an incredible hat game.

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Speaker 1: It's just all least appearing in just an incredible like

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Speaker 1: she has so many hats. It's it's wild. It's just

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Speaker 1: every single picture she's in it's just like a random, different,

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Speaker 1: wild hat. It's amazing. But she's also kind of in

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Speaker 1: some sense like a kind of uniquely incompetent politician. So okay,

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Speaker 1: So Lightfoot was elected mayor in like an absolute landside

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, and she ran this very weird campaign

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Speaker 1: which it was based on sort of three main things.

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Speaker 1: It was one was not being a machine candidate. And

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Speaker 1: this is actually very important, is it Lightfoot is not

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Speaker 1: actually part of the Chicago political machine that controls like

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Speaker 1: most polic Why there's there's the kind of kind of

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Speaker 1: separate parts of the machine. This is a complicated thing

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Speaker 1: we're not going to fully get into here. But she's

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Speaker 1: like not a machine candidate. She like kind of is

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Speaker 1: an outsider in some sense um and that was a

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Speaker 1: big part of why people voted for her. There's another thing,

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Speaker 1: which is this sort of like identity tokenism thing, which

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Speaker 1: is like, I'm going to be the first black, lesbian

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Speaker 1: mayor of Chicago, which she is. And then the third

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Speaker 1: thing she was running on was building a ship ton

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Speaker 1: of police academies. Now I now in twenty nineteen, I

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Speaker 1: was in Chicago for this election, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: do not fucking vote for her. She's gonna build these

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Speaker 1: cop academies. And everyone was like, no, it's gonna be great.

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Speaker 1: She's not the machine, She's like. So she gets elected

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, and this means that when she gets

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Speaker 1: into office, like almost immediately, twenty twenty happens, and okay,

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Speaker 1: so no mayor has like a good response of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty Lightfoot's is like catastrophic. So I've talked about this

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Speaker 1: a bit at the show, but but what twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: in Chicago is this really really kind of wild and

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Speaker 1: weird thing. It doesn't map onto a lot of the

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Speaker 1: other sort of twenty twenties, but like the first thing

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Speaker 1: that happens basically is Chicago has this thing called I

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Speaker 1: think it's I think it's the Magnificent Mile. It's something milds.

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Speaker 1: I can remember when its magnificent a miracle because it's

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Speaker 1: the fucking bullshit tourist thing. But it's it's like the

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Speaker 1: Chicago's like it's like a mile of like really rich

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Speaker 1: shopping districts, and the I was just lost control of it.

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Speaker 1: Like people just took it. It was like fully looted.

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Speaker 1: It was just this. It was just this. There was

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Speaker 1: this sort of incredible moments of like Chicago's working class

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Speaker 1: that had been getting shit on for two hundred fucking

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Speaker 1: years like finally stormed their way into their pas and

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Speaker 1: just the fucking boushee part of Chicago would destroyed it

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Speaker 1: and it fucking ruled. But after that happened, life Foot

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Speaker 1: was like, oh shit, we can never let protesters get

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Speaker 1: back there again. So she started raising the fucking draw

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Speaker 1: bridges that lead that lead across the fucking rivers, like

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Speaker 1: she was like she basically turned the entirety of like

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Speaker 1: like that that event part of Chicago into a fucking

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Speaker 1: fortress that you could not get onto. Amazing, I just

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Speaker 1: raised she did this, Like, she raised the bridges multiple

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Speaker 1: fucking times. Like we're gonna get to another story of

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Speaker 1: her raising the bridges where it's like it's un like

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Speaker 1: like she doesn't so many times that like even times

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Speaker 1: where she claimed she didn't do it on purpose, people

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Speaker 1: are like, I think she raised the bridges. This is

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Speaker 1: you know, and so this is her basically she when

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Speaker 1: when she raises the bridges, she just like declares war

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Speaker 1: basically on like half of Chicago. And Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: is like not a great thing to do if if

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Speaker 1: you're trying to be a popular politician is to just

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Speaker 1: like physically declare war and like do fucking medieval fortress

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Speaker 1: shit to like half half your fucking city. And so

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Speaker 1: her popularity starts tanking immediately. This is in like the

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Speaker 1: this is I'm guessing as a consequence of the Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter protest, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so her

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Speaker 1: reproove rating is like fucking absolutely dog should I think, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to find I should have looked this up earlier.

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Speaker 1: I meant to, and I forgot. I think her APPO

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Speaker 1: rating was like thirty percent when she left office. It

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Speaker 1: might even be lower than that. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: but she she does this kind of unique thing where

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Speaker 1: she basically goes around and alienates like every single voting

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Speaker 1: block in the city. I guess before we get to this,

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Speaker 1: we should get we should get to how she pissed

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Speaker 1: off the cops because one big things which she came

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Speaker 1: into office was she was trying to sort of like

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Speaker 1: do this alliance with the police. But instead of her

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Speaker 1: sort of actually like forming this, you know, she she

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Speaker 1: was trying to form sort of sent a right wing bass. Right,

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Speaker 1: She's trying to both sort of play this kind of

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Speaker 1: like identity tokens something and then also build a bass

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Speaker 1: with the cops. But a, the cops are racist And Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you two know the story about the Chicago Columbus statue.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Wait, is that one of the ones

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Speaker 1: that got taken down? Sort of? I think this is

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Speaker 1: one of the ones that so in twenty twenty, I

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Speaker 1: wrote a story about how to tie down statues and

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Speaker 1: then became the guy that everybody sent pictures of statues

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Speaker 1: getting torn down to for a while. So I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I seen amazing. Yeah, it was great. Ben Shapira had

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Speaker 1: a whole fucking seizure about it. We got lots of

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Speaker 1: trouble with various federal agencies. But yeah, it was a

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Speaker 1: very amazing story. I don't don't affiliate link to the

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Speaker 1: ingredients to things which mail made be illegal if you

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Speaker 1: combine those ingredients in your story, so true. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: many popular mechanics editives have tried this. It's great. I

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Speaker 1: was on Russia today. Uh not not with my knowledge,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, tell us about this, tell us about his

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Speaker 1: other statue. Man. Okay, So there is a giant like

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Speaker 1: statue thing sitting on a like sitting on this big

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Speaker 1: column that was made nineteen thirty three, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: this giant statue of Christopher Columbus. I'm also on this statue.

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Speaker 1: So there there, there, there's like a series of like

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Speaker 1: important Italian people like on the column. One of these things,

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Speaker 1: one of the people who has picked it on this column,

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Speaker 1: like very much seems to be Benito Mussolini holding a

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Speaker 1: bunch of fascies. That's cool. Now, the sculptors, the sculptor's

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Speaker 1: son denies this, but this was made ninety thirty three.

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Speaker 1: It really looks like he is definitely holding fascis. So

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Speaker 1: all right, this this statue, this is like in like

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Speaker 1: the middle of the fucking city, right in like this

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Speaker 1: park in the middle of the city. Um, and this

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Speaker 1: became the so okay, so in twenty twenty in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: the way the protests work is you have like the

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Speaker 1: first initial like phase where the cops like lose control

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Speaker 1: of the city, and then the cops kind of like

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Speaker 1: retake it over the next few days, and there's a

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Speaker 1: kind of lull, but then it starts another like sort

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Speaker 1: of wave of it starts back up again, like a

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Speaker 1: rounds specifically around this statue, and there's this whole thing

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Speaker 1: that cops are trying to keep it up, and there's

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Speaker 1: this whole thing where like there's like like rings of

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Speaker 1: activists like surrounding a group of cops standing around the

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Speaker 1: statue like throwing shit at them. When it fucking ruled,

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Speaker 1: and eventually the city is like, Okay, we're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: just gonna take down the fucking statue. And this was

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Speaker 1: a Lightfoot thing, but but this pissed off the cops

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Speaker 1: and specifically, so what I talked about this before on

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Speaker 1: the show, but like this is one of the sort

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Speaker 1: of unique things about Chicago is that Chicago has like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess the technical term is like white ethnic like

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Speaker 1: groups that like do shit. And one of those things

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Speaker 1: is like there's like an Italian American Cop Association that

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Speaker 1: is very powerful. The Echina American Cop Association is like, like,

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Speaker 1: we will keep the statue at all costs. This is

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Speaker 1: like our fucking guy, like, hey, we're yeah, and and

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Speaker 1: and Lightfoot is like, you guys, if you guys don't

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Speaker 1: take this statue down, people are gonna fucking like burn

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Speaker 1: the Miracle Mile again. And she gets to this giant

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Speaker 1: fight of them, and these emails eventually get I think

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Speaker 1: I can't remember thaying. I think they get released part

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Speaker 1: of a court case or something, but these these emails

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Speaker 1: come out that it like Lightfoot is yelling that she

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Speaker 1: has the biggest balls of anyone on the table. She's

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Speaker 1: gonna put her balls on the table. She's trying to

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Speaker 1: like keep the cops. So she gets in this giant fight,

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Speaker 1: it just pisses off all of the cops in the city.

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Speaker 1: So she's she she has pissed off like like from

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Speaker 1: from from from the initial wave of protests at the

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Speaker 1: Drawbridge stuff. She has pissed off like anyone who's even

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Speaker 1: sort of vaguely center left and anti racist and like

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Speaker 1: a huge proportion of the city's black population. And then

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Speaker 1: she like systematically she's now pissed off like the sort

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Speaker 1: of like white ethnic cop groups who are also very powerful,

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Speaker 1: and then she does something like like really genuinely unforgivable

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Speaker 1: and horrific, which she is. In twenty twenty one, Chicago

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Speaker 1: police shot thirteen year old Adam Toledo share so much

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Speaker 1: Chicago paper called the Tribe. At a press conference after

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Speaker 1: the shooting, Mayor Louis Lightfoot vowed to find the people

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Speaker 1: responsible for quote putting a gun in the hands of Toledo,

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Speaker 1: who Chicago police and prosecutors insisted was armed. So, okay,

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Speaker 1: they shoot this kid who is fucking thirteen years old.

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Speaker 1: His name is Adam Toledo, and immediately the cops of

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Speaker 1: prosecutors and the mayor said that he's armed. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: find the person who put the gun in his hand.

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Speaker 1: So two and a half weeks later, the video comes

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Speaker 1: out and it turns out that not only was Adam

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Speaker 1: Toledo not armed, the cops shot him while he was

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Speaker 1: while his hands were up while complying with their instructions.

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Speaker 1: I think I've seen this, buddy cam. Yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: fucking awful. And then like two year two days later,

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Speaker 1: they killed another guy and like there were there was,

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Speaker 1: there was, there was there was another round of like

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Speaker 1: huge protests, I mean, and they weren't as big as

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty ones, but like there was another round of

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Speaker 1: like really big protests in this and Lightfoot was, you know,

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Speaker 1: like actively involved in a conspiracy to lie about this

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Speaker 1: fucking thirteen year old kid who was killed in cold blood.

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Speaker 1: And so this pisses off like this. This this like

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Speaker 1: basically means that her her support among like the Latino

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Speaker 1: population drops to basically zero because she fucking accused a

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old kid of being a gang, an armed

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Speaker 1: gang member, and then he got fucking after he got

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Speaker 1: shopped by the cops. So well, the other fun thing

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Speaker 1: about this is so our our like prosecutor Kim Fox

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Speaker 1: is like there's like this whole thing about how she's

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Speaker 1: like a progressive prosecutor and like the rights trying to

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Speaker 1: unseat her. None of the fucking officers involved in this

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Speaker 1: or the other shooting two days later were ever charged

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Speaker 1: with anything after they again it shot like killed in

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Speaker 1: cold blood a thirteen year old kid with his hands up. Now,

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Speaker 1: the sort of regular Chicago right hates her because she's

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Speaker 1: both black and a lesbian, and there's some like well

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about this a bit when we gets a Vallis,

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Speaker 1: but there's just genuinely unhinged, horrifying sort of like racism

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Speaker 1: and like homophobia, and like she's getting basically like splash

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Speaker 1: damage transphobia from it because of how racist these people are.

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Speaker 1: And so but that means that like you know, she

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Speaker 1: has like no support, right, she she managed to get

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Speaker 1: she like she she manages to get into a fight

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Speaker 1: with Chicago is like normally pretty conservative like Black Caucus,

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Speaker 1: and the Black Hawcus gets so pissed at her, but

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Speaker 1: they forced through a police reform bill that has just

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Speaker 1: like oversych committees, just like Rain and so you know,

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Speaker 1: there like on on Forbruary twenty eighth, there's an election

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Speaker 1: and all of the sort of like everyone in the

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Speaker 1: city of Chicago is like she's fucked. Like she's a

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Speaker 1: unique she's like a uniquely unpopular candidate. Everyone fucking hates her.

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Speaker 1: She has systematically pissed off every single possible voting block

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Speaker 1: in the entire city of Chicago. And she loses, and

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Speaker 1: you know, there's this whole sort of media junket that

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Speaker 1: happens her. Everyone's like, this is like a referendum on

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Speaker 1: crime in Chicago, and it's like, no, no, it's not

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Speaker 1: like everyone just hates Lightfoot because she sucks, and she

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Speaker 1: sucks in like a unique combination of ways that pisses

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Speaker 1: off everyone who can possibly vote in the city. And

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Speaker 1: so she gets sixteen percent of the vote, which I

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Speaker 1: think sixteen percent of the vote is like the actual

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Speaker 1: sort of like top limit cap of the number of

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Speaker 1: people in Chicago who Jenny winely like her, Like, I

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Speaker 1: think it's exactly fifteen sixty percent of the city and

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Speaker 1: there's fucking no one else. So she comes in third.

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Speaker 1: It's also very funny she spends the entire like a

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Speaker 1: bunch of her money running campaign ads, like against the

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Speaker 1: guy who comes in fourth instead of the other two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so the man who came in second, who is

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Speaker 1: on the By the time this episode comes out, the

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Speaker 1: election will be fucking tomorrow. Um. The person who came

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Speaker 1: in second in that vote is Brandon Johnson, who's the

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Speaker 1: progressive candidate. He's backed by like the teachers Union. He's

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Speaker 1: like fine, he is like as good as you're going

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Speaker 1: to get for a mayor. Oh though I will remind

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Speaker 1: people that like Johnson is say much better candidate the

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Speaker 1: other fucking guy we're gonna talk about, But we need

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Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit about the limits of

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Speaker 1: electoral politics, and like, you know, I'm I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: point out here if that like Nepal, for example, routinely

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Speaker 1: elects Maoist governments and like do you know, how do

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Speaker 1: you know how much Maaoism those guys do? Like fucking nun,

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Speaker 1: there was no Maoism happening, right. There were some cool

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Speaker 1: socialist mayors in Spain who led the population of the

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Speaker 1: city to expropriate the landowners around the city in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. Yeah, that was the nineteen thirties, is twenty

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Speaker 1: those are old. Most people's fucking grandchildren are like maybe

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Speaker 1: around but yeah, like you're you're not gonna get, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get a socialist city off of this.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, the person who comes in first,

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Speaker 1: who Brandon Johnson will be facing tomorrow when you listen

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Speaker 1: to this, is a demon in human form. He is

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Speaker 1: near your liberal lives as a bag man. He is

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Speaker 1: the fucking reactionary Republican dog of the Chicago political machine.

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Speaker 1: And that manon's name is Paul Vallis. And as as

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Speaker 1: as Vallis would fucking want, we are going to talk

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Speaker 1: about him after we go to ADS. All right, we're

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Speaker 1: back from ADS. We're going to talk about Paul Vallis.

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Speaker 1: Just the worst guy. Okay, So Paul Vallis sucks ass um.

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Speaker 1: The thing he's most famous for sucking ass for is

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Speaker 1: for being the school privatization guy. So we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: with him. The beginning of his sort of political career

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Speaker 1: is in two In nineteen ninety five, he gets appointed

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Speaker 1: as the CEO of Chicago Public Schools and he holds

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Speaker 1: that position from nineteen ninety five to two thousand and one. Now, okay,

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Speaker 1: so there's a few things that he like, really likes.

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Speaker 1: One is insulating schools entirely insulating any mechanism and any

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Speaker 1: sort of like part of how a school works from

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Speaker 1: any kind of community democratic control. Chicago used to have

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Speaker 1: these sort of like democratic councils that could like do

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Speaker 1: stuff within the school and vows is like, fuck that

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Speaker 1: we're getting rid of all that shit, like absolutely not.

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Speaker 1: The other thing he loves is charter schools, So we

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Speaker 1: should explain what a charter school is. Yeah, so okay,

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Speaker 1: The way a charter school works is that instead of

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Speaker 1: like the state or like the city or a town

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Speaker 1: or like a local government running a school, which is

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Speaker 1: the way that schools normally work, you instead give out

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Speaker 1: a charter to either like technically an NGO or just

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Speaker 1: a for profit company, and then that company takes a

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Speaker 1: bunch of tax money, like takes a tax money that

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Speaker 1: would have gone to a public school, and then uses

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Speaker 1: it to run their own fucking school. So bait like

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Speaker 1: it is. It is privatization that they've relabeled like charter

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Speaker 1: quote unquote because if they actually called it privatization to schools,

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Speaker 1: people would fucking hate it. And Vallis loves this ship.

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Speaker 1: This is this is what he spends most of his

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Speaker 1: time across like on multiple continents doing schools bullshit like

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Speaker 1: attempting to push for um the other specific thing that

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Speaker 1: he really likes this and this, this is like this

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Speaker 1: is sort of the Paul Vallis signature. Like classic thing

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Speaker 1: is military academies. They used to like basically not be

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Speaker 1: military academies in Chicago, and Vallis is like, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: open so many fucking military academies and these are these

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Speaker 1: are like regular and the things okay, like there are

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Speaker 1: sort of like disciplinary quote unquote military academies, which is

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Speaker 1: like you get sent there instead of prison. These are

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Speaker 1: like just like normal schools that are like quote unquote

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Speaker 1: military academies. But these schools like they're they're barely schools.

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Speaker 1: Like like there there there. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who went to these schools who in multiple cities

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Speaker 1: and multiple get into more of this sort of later

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Speaker 1: when we get to Philly, but like people will go

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Speaker 1: to these schools and like their textbooks have pages torn

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Speaker 1: out of them and like whith you know, here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: right you would think this is like like a kind

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Speaker 1: of like Republican style, like uh, we're taking out the

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Speaker 1: pages to talk about like Columbus being bad, Like no

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Speaker 1: no, no no, no, just random fucking like just pages torn

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Speaker 1: out of it because they these schools don't be fucking money,

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Speaker 1: like they don't have actual curriculars like they just they

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Speaker 1: just like don't have sports. They just don't have like

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Speaker 1: anything to fucking do. Um. And then this is another

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Speaker 1: thing with charter schools. So all right, if you want

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Speaker 1: to like be a regular teacher, you have to have

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Speaker 1: like teaching teaching certificates if you work at a charter school. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I think that the standards depend on the state

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Speaker 1: some of them. I think Illinois is like two thirds

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Speaker 1: of the teachers have to have teaching certificates. But that

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Speaker 1: means that a lot of kids are being taught by

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Speaker 1: teachers with no teaching certificates, which is like, you know

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Speaker 1: that teaching and it turns out is not in fact

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Speaker 1: easy enough that you could just put a random person

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Speaker 1: there who doesn't know how to do it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like have kids be taught correctly. These mil academies, these

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Speaker 1: milter academies, they have teachers who just like don't fucking

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Speaker 1: teach right, like they're they're they're just complete shit show.

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Speaker 1: But he opens a bunch of these am but okay,

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Speaker 1: and the other big thing the vallas Is supposed and

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Speaker 1: this is the thing all all the people who like

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Speaker 1: Fallos would do this thing where they're like he's like

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Speaker 1: a budget wizard and he's like the guy, he's like

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Speaker 1: the technocrat, like smart policy, want guy who you bring

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Speaker 1: in to like like bail out of school district that's

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Speaker 1: underwater financially and oh boy, oh boy, is that not true?

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Speaker 1: He okay, So there there, there's there's a very good

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Speaker 1: report called Passing the Buck, which is written by the

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Speaker 1: Action Center on Race in the Economy or ACRE, which

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Speaker 1: I recommend people look genuinely, people should go read this.

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Speaker 1: It's like twelve pages long. It's very short, and like,

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Speaker 1: h like it's not even twelve like three of those

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Speaker 1: pages dissertations um. And they wrote a report on Vallis's

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Speaker 1: time in various school districts. And here's some of the

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Speaker 1: ship that he did to make it look like he

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Speaker 1: had his balanced, his budget balanced. So all right, let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk about his pension scheme. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: actually should have plain how pensions work, because like nobody

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Speaker 1: fucking has them anymore. So a pension is a thing

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Speaker 1: where like you the worker or in this case, the

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Speaker 1: Chicago teachers, you take some of your current pay and

401
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Speaker 1: instead of taking the money, now it gets taken out

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Speaker 1: of your paycheck and put towards a pension fund to

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Speaker 1: fund your retirement. And then this fund is invested in

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Speaker 1: the stock market to get returns to pay out pensions

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Speaker 1: that like support you when you retire. Right. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, Vallis was like, oh, hey, the

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Speaker 1: Chicago pension system is funded, so we're gonna take the

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Speaker 1: teacher's money and use it to pay other budget shortfalls. Great,

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Speaker 1: so this is good. Anyways, after he does this for

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Speaker 1: for thirteen consecutive years, Chicago stops paying into its pension

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Speaker 1: system altogether, and the result of this is a nine

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Speaker 1: point six billion dollar hole in the pension system that

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Speaker 1: Chicago has to like pay off. And this is a

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Speaker 1: huge part of like where are the sort of modern

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Speaker 1: like budget deficits in Chicago come from, like things that

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Speaker 1: are used to like justify show schools down. Is that

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Speaker 1: like they just didn't pay into this, They just stop

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Speaker 1: paying into the pensions and instead took the money that

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to go to teachers and use it to

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Speaker 1: like make their budgets look clean. So if if he

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Speaker 1: had just done this, it would have been bad enough.

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Speaker 1: But but Vallas is like is a very very specific

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Speaker 1: kind of like neoliberal technocrat dip shit, And that kind

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Speaker 1: of neoliberal technicrat dip shit is the the extremely interested

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Speaker 1: in financial instruments guy who was like a kind of

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Speaker 1: person that I think I think we see less of

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Speaker 1: these days because the most not the modern version of

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Speaker 1: this or like crypto people. Right, but back in like

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Speaker 1: the nineties and two thousands, there were a bunch of

430
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: guys whose things were like really really conflabu of financial

431
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: instruments and everyone thought they were fucking geniuses. Um now,

432
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 1: now if if you if you were alive in two

433
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, you know where this is going. But

434
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: vallis the second thing he does to sort of like

435
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: like quote unquote balance his budget sheet is he takes

436
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: out the government que a payday loan. So here's here's

437
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: a passing the buck quote. Vallas literally borrowed against Chicago

438
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: school children's futures when he took out a six hundred

439
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: and sixty six million dollars in capital appreciation bonds. Also,

440
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: when I said he was like like a demon sid

441
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: sixty six million dollars with the Satanic Yeah, yeah, we're

442
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: doing the Satanic panic, but for this guy who fucking sucks,

443
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, he took out the loans and capital appreciation

444
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: bonds a form of debt in which the borrower pays

445
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: nothing for several years, but then has to pay very

446
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: large sums to make up for skipped payments. A capital

447
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: appreciation bond c a B is a long term bond

448
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: with compounding interest, on which the borrower is not permitted

449
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: to make any principal or interest payments for many years,

450
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: but the interest will. Yeah, crazy, but you're allow Why

451
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: would we Why would you take that? Why would you?

452
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: Why would you do? That's like a really bad decision.

453
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: Oh it's a terrible it's a terrible decision. I'm not

454
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: a big money guy. But the Valis's assumption was that, like, Okay,

455
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: we don't have any money now, but property values will

456
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: continue to go up, and it just keep going up forever,

457
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: so we can pay this bond back when we have

458
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: money from higher from property taxes. And yeah, so okay,

459
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: I really if I'm gonna finish this thing on these

460
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: these just dogshit bonds. In this way, it is similar

461
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: to a negative amortization mortgage, in which the outstanding principle

462
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: actually grows over time because the unpaid interest gets tacked

463
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: onto the amount owed and compounds. Yeah, very Amusingly, California

464
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: was doing something similar to this with with restitution payments recently,

465
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: or some some place in California were, at least in

466
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: one case that I looked into for a story I wrote,

467
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: it was it was ruled illegal under the Eighth Amendment.

468
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 1: Oh my god, a cruel and unusual interest payments. It's

469
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: good to see the Chicago is doing it. Yeah, there's

470
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: actually a funny story about this that, like one of

471
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: the size stories of this is that the guy who's

472
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: running the school system in California like gets this same

473
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: offer from like bond salesman people, and he's like, know,

474
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: what the fuck, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

475
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Vallas does this. Vallas is going to do this in

476
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: multiple cities. So I'm gonna finish reading this thing. Because

477
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: of this structure, borrowers often end up paying extraordinarily high

478
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: interest rates over the lifetime of the bonds. Former California

479
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: State Treasurer Bill Lockney called CIABS the school district equivalent

480
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: of a pan a loan. So the result of this

481
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: is that out of the six hundred and sixty six

482
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: point two million dollars right that Valas takes out, they

483
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: pay one point five billion dollars in interest. The interest

484
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: rate over the lifetime of this bond is two hundred

485
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: and twenty three percent. Good. This is the guy who's

486
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: supposed to be like the really smart type, the crack

487
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: reformer guy who understands financial stuff, who you bring into

488
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: like solve school districts, and he took out a load

489
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty three percent fucking interest. This is

490
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: this is the kind of interest rate. Then, the words

491
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 1: of David Graeber were once reserved for organized crime, and

492
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: now is you know, normally normally this kind of loan

493
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: is like a thing. It's like, this is like a

494
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: very predatory sort of like yeah, it's like a predatory

495
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: banking thing. Valis think this to himself on purpose because

496
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: he's dumb, and I mean, also like he's trying to

497
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: I mean and part of part of the other sort

498
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: of undercurrent of this, it's not just that he's really stupid,

499
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: it's that he's trying to pay off his buddies in

500
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: the in the finance sector. Yeah, and then you know,

501
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: there is the other part of the story. Right, It's

502
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: like all of these all these school districts just get

503
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: fucking looted to pay off these like fucking stupid ass

504
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: hedge funds, and then he just bounces somewhere else and

505
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: leaves him people with it. Yeah. And you know, so

506
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: I talked a bit earlier about how like Valis's assumption

507
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: on these bonds was like, well, be fine, because well,

508
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: the housing markets will keep going up forever. But then

509
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: two happens, and this has a bunch of effects. One

510
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: of the big ones is that Vallas was taking out

511
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: bonds with variable interest rates. Oh now, okay, we have

512
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: talked about this on this show before. Right, there are

513
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: entire country they are like entire like like multi national

514
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: political movements that don't exist. There are entire countries who

515
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: fucking don't have manufacturing checkers anymore. Like there are there

516
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: are places with a life expectancy felled by twenty years

517
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: because they're they're they're fucking leaders took out these kind

518
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: of of like variable interest rate loans and got de

519
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: strobe in the interest rate spikes and guess what happened

520
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: in Chicago interest rate spikes. And okay, so Vallas's successors

521
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: look at this and are like, this is the stupidest

522
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: fucking you know well, but okay, Valles' success by the way,

523
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: is Artie Duncan, who's the guy that Obama puts in

524
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: charge of of the Department of Education. And Artie Duncan

525
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: is like, okay, do you know how we're going to

526
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: solve the problem of these the the the risk from

527
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: these adjestable rate interest rates. Credit default swabs? Oh god,

528
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: all right, I'm not going to explain how a credit

529
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: default swap works because it's fucking annoying as hell. But

530
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: credit default swaps are one of the things, like one

531
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: of the very specific financial instruments that are that are

532
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: like specifically responsible for the two thousand and eight collapsed Yes,

533
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: and now these technically aren't credit default swaps, right, These

534
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: These are technically what are called interest default swap or

535
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: like interest swaps, and they're but they're exactly the same

536
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: thing as a credit as a credit default swap, but

537
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: instead of credit, it's interest. So the underlying asset right

538
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: is like as a bond and not like a loan

539
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: or whatever. But otherwise it's exactly the same thing. And

540
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: this this man, you know, and these these swaps have

541
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: this thing where like if you can't pay, you get

542
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: these like unbelievably high like fees that start happening. So

543
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: when when these bonds blow up, they managed to cost

544
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: they managed to cost Chicago another thirty one million dollars

545
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: because they're credit default swaps just blew up. So all right,

546
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: so this has a two thousand too, And she tells

547
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: the two He ran for governor or against Rob fucking Blogoyevich,

548
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: who is Rob who is Rob a Bligoyevich. He just

549
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: did the first syllable and then let your let to

550
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: take the rest. And Valis sucks so much that Rob

551
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: Blugoyevich is able to outflank him on the left bye

552
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 1: bye bye, running against him saying, hey, look at all

553
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: these schools he privatized. And so he gets claw bared

554
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: in the primaries by Rob fucking Bloyevich, the man who okay,

555
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: so this is what we will cover this one day

556
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: at fully on the show because it's really funny. But

557
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: Rob Lgoievic is the man most famous for getting arrested

558
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: for trying to sell Obama Senate seat like he tried

559
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: to sell a Senate Oh he's Oh, he's amazing. He's

560
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: now just on Tucker talking about political persecution. Oh yeah,

561
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: yeah's extremely funny. Yeah he was on yesterday, wasn't he? Yeah?

562
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, first Trump should Yeah, how he was persecuted first,

563
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: and how Trump is being persecuted too. It's great, really,

564
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: really the canary in the coal mine off, Hey, griffting politicians, look, Garrison,

565
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: look if they if they can go after Rob Lgio

566
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: trying to sell Obama Senate seat, they could go after

567
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: you for trying to sell Barack Obama Senate seat. That's true.

568
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: You know who else is trying to sell Barack Obama

569
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: Senate seat? Products and services that support this very podcast. No,

570
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: they're really not allowed to do that. None of them

571
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: would ever commit a crime I under any circumstances. I

572
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: still think I think a fair number of these corporations

573
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: probably engage in some some sort of political Yeah, that's true,

574
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: but I don't they're trying to buy him a Senate seat, Garrison.

575
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: That's totally different, different, not the same, not the same,

576
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: totally fine. Thanks Ronald Reagan, all right, we're back, and

577
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: we're now, We're we're now, we're now sending Vallis to

578
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: our I don't I don't actually know if Chicago and

579
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: Philadelphia or sister or cities, but like I think they

580
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: should be. I don't know. I am. I am very

581
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: in favor of the Chicago Philadelphia alliance. Same vibe. Yeah,

582
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: so she they both stood in for Gotham City and

583
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: the Christopher Nolan trilogy. So we're doing a Bagman reference again.

584
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: There's there's a whole There are like so many different

585
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: specific there. David Grabber rights about this, like there there

586
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: are so many different like parts of places where they filmed,

587
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: like the Dark Night where people tried to protest and

588
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: got arrested for blocking the road. Like this happened in

589
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: multiple cities. Yeah. No, one wants the city to turn

590
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: into la So you have to stand up against that

591
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: shit immediately. You do not let it happen in your hood.

592
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: Yeah it could, it could happen here. Okay. So after

593
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: Vallas gets clabbered in in in the mayoral race, he

594
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: gets brought in by Philadelphia to try to like fix

595
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: their school system, and he uh me, his plan to

596
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: do this is by doing a bunch of military academies

597
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: again and then doing also doing charter schools, and so

598
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: I should I should explain like his other sort of

599
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: so the big sort of rationale thing behind charter schools,

600
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: this school choice, which is this thing that was specifically

601
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: invented as a way to let Race his parents avoid integration. Yeah,

602
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: this is like goes along with sobody mentioned the homeschool

603
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: and when we've talked about this in other episodes. But

604
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: he's like a huge like Valist to this day is

605
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: a giant like school choice guy. Um, and you know,

606
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: but the other thing, the other thing about Valist, I

607
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: don't think people realize that much he even though he's

608
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: a Republican a lot of the time, like he kind

609
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: of flips back and forth being a Democrat being a Republican.

610
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: But he's he's like after he loses to Rob or

611
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: even even sort of before, like he is anual sort

612
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: of Chicago machine guy. And because he's a Chicago machine guy,

613
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: when he gets into Philly, the stuff that he starts doing,

614
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: the stuff where he like he'll just like like he

615
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: takes over the school district and like fires munch people

616
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: and like installs his cronies and all these departments and

617
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: all these people are getting like he's like buying off

618
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: people with budget allocations, and he starts selling off buildings

619
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: to raise money. So he sells off like the district

620
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: headquarters in order to buy like a more expensive district headquarters.

621
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: And here's a quote from the book Not Paid for Us,

622
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: which is a really really great book about sort of

623
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: the history of racism in education in Philadelphia. And this

624
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: is a quote from a long time activist le Roy Simmons.

625
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: Before I start reading this, the district headquarters was called

626
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: twenty first and Parkway. There was doors in twenty first

627
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: and Parkway worth one million dollars, then big brass doors

628
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: in the fronts. Those doors were worth one million dollars

629
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: with all the carving on them. People don't know how

630
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: much they got for it. To this day, I can't

631
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: get an answer about how much did you sell that

632
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: building for? Where the money went? The school district sold

633
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: twenty first and Parkway in a package with Kennedy Center.

634
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: There were brand new trucks parked at Kennedy Center. They

635
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: had forgot were there. There was a printing press in

636
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: the Kennedy Center that could print all new magazines and

637
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: they never used. There were books and calculators and every

638
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: time it went through there there were boxes of unused

639
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: stuff in the Kennedy Center and nobody knew. And they

640
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: sold that in the contents and the package with twenty

641
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: first of Parkway, and nobody knew how much that was.

642
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: There was some art that was priceless on the walls

643
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: at twenty first of Parkway. No one can find the art.

644
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: They were priceless pieces of art hanging in schools across

645
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: the city and all that was sold in a package

646
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: and nobody saw it where it went. Yeah, so this

647
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: is this is again, this is like this is classic

648
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: Chicago corruption shit, right, Like we're not gonna say how

649
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: much we sold this building for. We're not gonna say

650
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: who who we sold it too, Like we're gonna build

651
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: a more expensive building. And you know, if you look

652
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: at you look into who the contractors are as like

653
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: always someone's uncle or like brother or some shit. Um,

654
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: there's just you know, like there's printing presses that are gone,

655
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: like priceless works of art just vanished. It's like this

656
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: is this is like you know, it's sort of incredible

657
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: sort of Chicago political machine stuff. Um, and this gets

658
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 1: into what I think about I think the Chicago political

659
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: machine that is really interesting, which is that these people

660
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: are like, on the one hand, they're unbelievably corrupt. On

661
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: the other hand, a lot of them are sort of

662
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: real like hardline like doctrinaire neoliberals. This is I mean,

663
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: this is sort of the thing with Arnie Duncan, right, Like,

664
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: like Obama actually comes out of this machine too, when

665
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: he's a lot more sort of like doctrinaire about this

666
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: stuff than the sort of modern people are. And you know,

667
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: and Vallis is like one of the sort of like

668
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: big guys here, and you know, so he's really really

669
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 1: in favor of charter schools and so they get enormous

670
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: amounts of money. Um, he also does this thing he yeah,

671
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: this is also from Not Paid for Us. He funnels

672
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: money into just like a shit ton of nhos in

673
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: order to like do education programming or whatever. And so

674
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: there's a sort of constellation that forms of these like

675
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: you have you these corporations doing like education stuff or

676
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: like running schools, and you have these like nonprofits running

677
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: like the like the education material. And it's it's this

678
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: sort of like this this is sort of arch neoliberal

679
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: thing where instead of the state administering a service, what

680
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: you have is this like based basically a bunch of

681
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: like contracting grifters who come in and suck up all

682
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: of the money and then provide absolutely dogshit services. Now

683
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to read another quote from this book, because

684
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: the people they are paying these contracts who are fucking

685
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: wild on the The SRC is like one of the

686
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: bodies that's in charge of, like one of the state

687
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: bodies as in charge of, like the Philadelphia School District.

688
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: One of the SRC's most problematic contracts was with K

689
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: twelve Inc. For three million dollars to quote provide academic

690
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: and curriculum support access to K twelves online curriculum and assessments,

691
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: academic and richment via summer and extended day programs, professional development,

692
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: teacher planning and training materials, and community involvement activities. Conservative

693
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: radio talk show host William Bennett was the founder of

694
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: K twelve, Inc. He had been an advisor to former

695
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush Durin a

696
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: show in two thousand and five, he said the following,

697
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: and this is a direct quote. If you want to

698
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: reduce crime. You could, if that was your sole purpose,

699
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: you could abort every black baby in this country and

700
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: your crime rate would go down. That would be an

701
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: impossibly ridiculous and wray reprehensible thing to do, but your

702
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: crime weight would go down. So they peeled this guy

703
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: three million fucking dollars to both of VAL's pro choice credentials.

704
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: This is this is the most pro choice thing I've

705
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: ever seen from him, is the genocide guy. Because guy, yeah, yeah,

706
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: well you see, they all have a have a weakness.

707
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: That is, has anyone looked to the curriculum that they're providing.

708
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: I'm serious the thing, it's unclear to me that they ever,

709
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: like actually really provided much of anything. It does sound

710
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: like a like if you were going to make up

711
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: a company to grift at the education system, K twelve Inc.

712
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: Would be a great name. Yeah, And then that's that's

713
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: the thing about like all these charter schools too, right.

714
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: It's like, like, okay, so like there are some for

715
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: profit corporations you do charter school stuff, and they stick

716
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: in the charter school business because they decide that's how

717
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: they want to make their money. A lot of these

718
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: things come in take a state contract the school immediately

719
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: implodes and then leave and then they just walk out

720
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: with self a million dollars and this is like this

721
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: is a recurring pattern over and over again with charter schools. UM.

722
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: He also brings in Teach for America, who is this

723
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: like just genuinely evil organization that tries to break teachers

724
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: unions by recruiting these like incredibly idealistic and naive young

725
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: college grads and like throwing them into like into failing

726
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: schools as this thing to like, ah, you're gonna like

727
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: go serve the community and like you know, you're you'll

728
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: learn the job and you'll you'll become an educator and

729
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: you're like helping these disadvantaged kids and it's a disaster.

730
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: These these these people, the people who do this have

731
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: no fucking idea how to teach because they know theyn't

732
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: have teachers, gets right, They're just like college grads, and

733
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: at any any of you who have been around college grads,

734
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: like you think those people are responsible enough to fucking

735
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: teach kids, Like Jesus Christ, Yeah, I meant of that

736
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: was like a big thing. Like I don't know if

737
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: it still happens or not. I can remember, right, Yeah,

738
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: reference letters for students like ten fifteen years ago for that. Yeah,

739
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: Like I I mean, I know I had to like

740
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: talk out classmates of mine like out of doing it

741
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 1: because we were like you are doing you are doing

742
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: union busting and also this will destroy your life and

743
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: the life of the children you have to teach. Yeah,

744
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: it's a very strange system that, yeah, takes someone who

745
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 1: by virtue of having any degree is it's automatically an educator.

746
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: But to be fair, that is how universities work as well. Yeah,

747
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: you get get your master's degree and they're like, well,

748
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: fuck it, get in there. They'll just give you grad

749
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: students with no degrees, right, Like that's that's the thing too. Yeah,

750
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, and you know to to to to

751
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: get up together into those syds of like the other

752
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: thing that's happening here is is he has this really valas,

753
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: has this really really racist kind of like we need

754
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: to like enforce discipline in schools thing, and so they

755
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: have all these and this happened to Chicago too. They

756
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: have these like zero tolerance policies that have done i

757
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 1: mean irreparable damage to like tons of thousands of kids.

758
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read I'm going to read a thing from

759
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: tribe about Philadelphia. Quote. Test results were posted on data

760
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: walls in the school buildings to show which classes were

761
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: making the most progress. WHOA, it was humiliating, said Grill

762
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: was a teacher. A lot of our kids were left behind,

763
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: were behind, and a lot of a lot of our

764
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: kids suffered trauma, and trauma affects the way you learn.

765
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: So they were behind, they weren't on grade level, and

766
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: it made them feel like failures. I hated giving those tests. Wow. Yeah, yeah,

767
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: people like to be wrong about Georgia. Well, but that

768
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: that's some more wedding and ship threat that like and

769
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: like these are like fucking yeah, like these are like

770
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: these are literally children like you were. You were publicly

771
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: shaming people who are like twelve. It's just it's just horrible.

772
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah that, Like we've known for a very long time

773
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: that that doesn't work when you're educating kids. Like I

774
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: have done Pettigougi training and get it. No one with

775
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: any intent to actually help kids is shaming kids in

776
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: the classroom, or young people or anyone of any age

777
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,479
Speaker 1: for that matter. I just checked out what K twelve

778
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: Inca doing. It's great. They're now offering online high school.

779
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: Oh great, yeah, yeah, you can go to a faith

780
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: prep academy, developed Christian character find Yeah, yeah, this is great.

781
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: This is this is what I this is what I

782
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: youth need. Yeah it sucks so Um. The other thing again,

783
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: we keep strinkling around this because this happens a bunch

784
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: of times. Like again, vals, this whole thing is supposed

785
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: to be about, like about balancing budgets. Right in two

786
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, by the time he's like like at

787
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: the near the end of his like time in Philly,

788
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: he's fucked everything up so badly that that for in

789
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: like just one year of the budget, Philly schools were

790
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: seventy three million dollars in the whole. Now, the thing

791
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: about this is this is where most stories about Valis's

792
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: time in Philadelphia end. But wait, there's fucking more so

793
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: that that seventy three million dollars short fall was. It

794
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: was the one year short fall. Right remember back in

795
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: Chicago where Valas is like variable interest rate bonds like

796
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: blew up in the school's faces. Um, this time, Vallas

797
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: is the guy directly who did the credit the fault

798
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: swaps and uh, these these the interest rates on these

799
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: things are locked in literally for decades and just like

800
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: like some of these aren't expiring to like twenty thirty one, right,

801
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: and just so far they've cost one hundred and sixty

802
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: one million dollars. Great, yeah, and test test scores fucking

803
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: go down under him. It's a ship show. Yeah, And

804
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: so twousand and seven they kick him out because they're like,

805
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: what the fuck are you doing? Like Unfortunately the place

806
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: they kick him out too is is and you're you're

807
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: not gonna like this post Hurricane Katrina New Orleans. So

808
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: for fuck's sake? Yeah, yeah, why why do we have

809
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: to inflict like the fail suns of neoliberalism and the

810
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: people of New Orleans that's gonna get worse by the way, Okay, great, yeah, um,

811
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 1: so this is really bad, right New Orleans? Now? Okay,

812
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: so I think there's there's some kind of controversy about

813
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: how exactly you calculate this. At the very least sixty

814
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: three out of the sixty six like New Orleans, like big,

815
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: like sorry, let me let me rest at the very

816
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: least sixty three out of the sixty six, like schools

817
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: that they run, like at the very least like that

818
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: that are directly run by the state. Our charter schools. Um,

819
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: there's three more that are also charter schools but are

820
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: kind of administrated by the district. So there is a

821
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: huge debate as to whether there are technically any public

822
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: schools left in in fucking New Orleans. Jesus. Yeah, they

823
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 1: fired like and this this was this was before Valis

824
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: came into office. But in New Orleans they fired the

825
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: entire every teacher in the fucking city. They fired all

826
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: the unions, literally, all the union teachers were replaced them

827
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: with non union people. M Vallis comes in and starts

828
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: implementing some shit that is just like I like prison

829
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: camp shit. Oh god, here's from here's from tribe again.

830
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: According to Biguard, a lot of kids were arrested for

831
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: quote disruption of a school process if they showed up

832
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: late to class and refused to be kicked out for tardiness.

833
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: And again they are being arrested for refuge for wanting

834
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: to stay in school. Yeah, black kids, black girls were

835
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: arrested for having quote rat tail combs, which have long,

836
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: sharp handles from grating hair. Yeah. In one instance, Gard

837
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: said a six year old student was expelled and charged

838
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: with possession and distribution of a controlled substance because he

839
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: brought toms to school and gave them to his classmates

840
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: thinking they were candy. What the fuck they charged a

841
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: six year old? Yeah? God, yeah, the levels of fucking

842
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: cruelty that have to exist, Like a cop has to

843
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: see a six year old and not be like a lull.

844
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: Those are toms, like the kitch by should neat too

845
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: many of those. Let me go, he didn't know they

846
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: were kiddy because he's six Jesus Christ. Yeah, just like

847
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: just just jetty widely like abhorrently evil shit. Yeah. See

848
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: this is like maybe now is a good time to

849
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: point out that, like U, in the wake of yet

850
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: another terrible school shooting, people will want to put more

851
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: cops in schools. This is what happens when we put

852
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: cops in schools, right, They brutalize our fucking children. Yeah,

853
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: and like it's not yeah, like the state doing vince

854
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: the children is not on the way or protect children. Yeah.

855
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: What I want to say, the more your school represents

856
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: the levels of law enforcement that are in a prison camp,

857
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 1: the more the actual experience of the children will become

858
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: like prison camps. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, but also just

859
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: literally I mean, that's God. I love to go to

860
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: the Panoptic on high school. Garrison, what are you talking about.

861
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: It's just the panoptic on high school where if you don't,

862
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: if you don't get kicked out of your fucking class

863
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: for being late, they arrest you the coalent again. Yeah,

864
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: just so speaking speaking of disciplining and punishing. So these

865
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: charter schools, they do think that charter schools always do right,

866
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: which is sometimes if you know, if if you look

867
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: at people who talk about educational reform, they'll be like,

868
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: charter schools have like really great like test numbers, and

869
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: a that's just like not true, right, that they're only

870
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: looking at the really good charter schools. But you know,

871
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: here's the thing. If you give a public school the

872
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: amount of money that a really good charter school has,

873
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 1: it will also be a really good school. But but

874
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: there's the second thing that charter schools can do that

875
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: other schools can't, which is that charter schools could just

876
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: fucking kick students out. And this is one of the

877
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: ways that they maintain their test numbers is they just

878
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: kick out kids over whatever. Yet you don't do who

879
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: aren't initially doing well on tests. So they don't have

880
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: to teach them and like bother to improve their test scores.

881
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: And in New Orleans they get in trouble because the

882
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: kids they were kicking out were kids with disabilities who

883
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: they were illegally yeah, who they were illegally not like

884
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: giving individual education plans too, and also they were these

885
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: everything right, These charter schools are all run by different

886
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: private corporations, and so there's no system of tracking whether

887
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: when a kid gets kicked out whether they can actually

888
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: get it go to another school. So they're just leaving

889
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: these disabled kids, like in the fucking win with no

890
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: school to go to. And this was so illegal that

891
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: after a lawsuit, like I think it might still be

892
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: going to this day. It was going like twenty fourteen.

893
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 1: Like the school the Philadelphia school system was like under

894
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: resizaship by the federal government because they committed so many

895
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: crimes against disabled students. Jesus Christ, that is brutal. Yeah,

896
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: it's awful, fucking sorry. Stuff makes you kind of WoT

897
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: an education for a lot of my adult life, and

898
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: this ship makes me furious. Yeah, I just wanted to

899
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: what do you you to guess? Where do you think

900
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: they sent Paul Vallis next after he got kicked out

901
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: of I try trying to run of New Orleans. Did

902
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: they send him to set up a finishing school for

903
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: girls in Kabul? No, but similar similar vibes. Oh, for

904
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: fock's sake, it dude, it's outside the continental US. Yes,

905
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: it's not a rock no Puerto Rito earthquake. It's Haiti

906
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: after the yep yep. So now we've talked about this

907
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: in four on the show. In two thousan ten, there

908
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 1: was a just unbelievably heartwrenchingly catastrophic earthquake killed two hundred

909
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: and twenty thousand people and also destroyed like almost every

910
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: building in Haiti. And this kicks off phase two of

911
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: the UN occupation of the country. We talked about out

912
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: this in our episodes on Lulu and Bill Snaro. This

913
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: is this is when the UN guys from the Paul

914
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: bring in Cholerado, a bunch of the operation. Right. Yeah,

915
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: So right after this happens, so the US just like

916
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: sends Marines in, right, and no one in Haiti asked

917
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: for it. We just we just fucking invade um and

918
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: they bring in Paul Vallis, like specifically Paul Vallas and

919
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: also Arnie Duncan, who's again Obama's fucking education secretary, gets

920
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: bring in to rebuild the Haitian school system on the

921
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: New Orleans model. Now, okay, weirdly, if they had actually

922
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: implemented New Orleans model, it would have been an improvement,

923
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: because they hate the way the Haitian school system worked

924
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: was it was ninety percent private and the tuition was

925
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: forty percent of someone's annual budget, like like a family's

926
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: annual budget. Yeah, so that's the friends in Haiti who

927
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: couldn't afford to pay for school trying. It's fucking horrible.

928
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: Vallis is supposed to like change this, right, he gets

929
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: brought in, They bring in the Clinton Foundation. Instead, what

930
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: happens is the Clinton Foundation and buys a bunch of

931
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: trailers to use as schools for the from from specifically

932
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: the same people who got in trouble for selling for

933
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: maldehyde ridden trailers to FEMA drink Katrina, and then you know, okay,

934
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: and I never think that I I can't emphasize enough

935
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: the grifted trailer ink or something. Yeah, they fucking suck well.

936
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: But also also even though trailers were good, right, there's

937
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: a real issue with trying to use trailers to teach

938
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: kids in a place that is hot, yeah, which is

939
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: that it is one hundred fucking degrees inside these trailers.

940
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: These trailers are made of metal, so if you touch

941
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: the side of the thing, you get burned. Kids at people,

942
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: people who like teachers who were taught there, routinely talk

943
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: about how every kid, and they're every kid in their

944
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: fucking class was having heat stroke and they were just

945
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: like giving them painkillers for heat stroke because that's all

946
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: they could do. And yeah, it is punishingly hot if

947
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: you haven't works in that part of the world a lot,

948
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: and it is, it's hot enough without banking a tank

949
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: can Yeah, and vowless's fucking education form. They don't fucking work.

950
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: They don't do shit, right, hate education system is still

951
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: fucked despite all the body the Clinton Foundation and the like,

952
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: all these experts got paid, Like, it's still really bad.

953
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: I vallist like specifically, like very specifically defended the use

954
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: of trailers is like a thing you teach people in um. Yeah,

955
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: and you know this stuff. I'll continue used to the

956
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: present day. The US has been trying to find another excuse,

957
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: just trying to find a way to do another intervention.

958
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: In Haiti. So she's still on the New Orleans job.

959
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: I think, while he's doing this Haiti job, and then

960
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: he takes another job in Chile. Yeah, why, I don't know.

961
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: The people people get well, because because the the Interamerican

962
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: Development Bank gives him half a million dollars to run

963
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: two thousand schools there. So again he's now he's now

964
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: splitting his time between New Orleans, Haiti, and Chile. It's

965
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to find it. I spent a lot

966
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: of time looking. It's like it's really hard to find

967
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: like anything about what actually he was doing in Chile.

968
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: What we do know was when he got there, he

969
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: was met by the enormous two thousand and eleven Chilean

970
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: student protests, which then later turned into the twenty thirteen

971
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: Chilean student protests, which turned into two thousand and fifteen

972
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: Chilean student protests, which turned into the two thousand and

973
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: nineteen Chilean student protests. So you know, I mean, I

974
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: just I just want to like you. It is possible

975
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: to run Paul Vallis out of your country a couple

976
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: of different places, or at least your school. Jesians were

977
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: also a country a couple of places have done it,

978
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: and then after that they ended up Bridgeport, Connecticut for

979
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: some reason, where he gets run out after doing like

980
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: he gets he flees Connecticut, like trying to escape a

981
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: lawsuit about all the illegal anti union stuff that he did.

982
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: I really love the image of someone trying to desperately

983
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: flee from Connecticut. Yeah, like it's so small. How how

984
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: hard is it to leave Connecticut? It seems pretty easy

985
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: to jump over the line. I mean the one the

986
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: video I actually want to see is him getting out

987
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 1: of Philly. See see, getting out of Philly sounds actually hard.

988
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: Getting out of this Connecticut is like, come on, come on. Yeah,

989
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: the video I want to seuse him getting sent back

990
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: to Haiti by himself. Oh god. Yeah. So he runs

991
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: again and she wasn't fourteen. So Bigovis gets arrested for

992
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: you know, selling a Senate seat, and he tries to

993
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: run for lieutenant governor on on a slate, on like

994
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: a ticket with Pat Quinn who had been the governor

995
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: because he'd been the lieutenant governor under boys, and they like,

996
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: actually they managed to lose in Illinois to a Republican,

997
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: which is like, I think that should not happen unless

998
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: the Democrats would like really fuck up, which I mean

999
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: it happens, right, but like, yeah, so Democrats can make

1000
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: can make electoral mistakes. Are you sure to be fair?

1001
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: To be fair? This one wasn't. This wasn't even an

1002
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: electoral thing. This was just the guy tried to sell

1003
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: a fucking Senate and people were so mad at into

1004
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: the next election, They're like, we will vote for Bruce Rowner,

1005
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: who is just like a fucking absolute dipshit. But okay,

1006
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: so she So he has now lost two consecutive runs

1007
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: for governor, right governor and lieutenant governor. Now this year

1008
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: he actually he would he had another bid where he

1009
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: was maybe gonna run, and then he stopped. And now

1010
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: now he is one of the candidates for the mayor

1011
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: of Chicago. Now, while he's been doing his campaigning for this,

1012
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: some other fun stuff has been happening. Um, so he

1013
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: has an absolutely unlistenable podcasts please nodered. I considered pulling

1014
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: clips from this, and then I was like, I'm not.

1015
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 1: I can't inflict this on you. Absolutely it sucks too much. Yeah,

1016
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 1: I would simply leave this zoom call. I'm not, I'm

1017
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: just trauma. I was gonna, like, I was gonna talk

1018
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: about one of the things that he said a couple

1019
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: of things that he well, okay, one that he said

1020
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: on this one of they said on a different show. Um.

1021
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: One of the things was he starts ranting about this

1022
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: thing called culturally responsive teaching, which is this kind of

1023
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: liberal like anti racist. Yeah, this is a big thing.

1024
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 1: Like if anyone ever starts talking about culturally responsive teaching

1025
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: and starts yelling about it like they're a racist, like that,

1026
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: those are the only people who like actually like consistently.

1027
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's not like there ar't criticisms of it,

1028
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: but like almost everyone who talks about this on like

1029
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: a school board level is like a really weird racist guy.

1030
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: So she starts raving about how this means that everyone's

1031
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: gonna get handed a copy of Mao's Little Red Book,

1032
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: and then says, quote, what is this the cultural Revolution?

1033
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: Now we have covered the cultural revolution over the course

1034
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: of the show in the Atlanta episodes, and I'm just

1035
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: gonna simply say no and move on to read this

1036
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: unbelievably racist thing that he said. I'm just gonna read this.

1037
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: It's it's real bad. But for that matter, if you're

1038
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: a black child, you go home and listen to your

1039
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: parent when your parent has failed to be successful in

1040
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: addressing the ways these historically racist obstacles that have denied

1041
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: them a chance to equal opportunity. Here's the guy he's

1042
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: talking to, Paul. I wonder if you're a black kid,

1043
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: why don't you become a criminal? If you're hearing this

1044
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: stuff in school, everyone with the white skin is an

1045
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: oppress or if you're a black skin, you're the oppressed.

1046
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: That makes it pretty easy to justify any pretty bad conduct.

1047
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: In my opinion, you're absolutely right. So this is valence

1048
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: comes back. But what you're also doing, you're giving these

1049
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: You're giving people an excuse for bad behavior. You're almost

1050
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: justifying is Rams book in Fox. So you're right, You're

1051
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: absolutely right. Where is the accountability? You're the victim. What's

1052
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: happening is it becomes a justification for everything, and I

1053
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: think that's a very dangerous thing. Sollas arguing that talking

1054
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: about racism is actually a thing that encourages black people

1055
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: to do crime, which is like, that sounds that sounds

1056
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: kind of racist me just a little bit. He maybe

1057
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: with supremisist gives up racist vibes. Yeah. Um, so speaking

1058
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 1: of racist vibes, his son is a cop in Santa

1059
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: Fe and he was one of three cops who shot

1060
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: a black guy in the back after calling him boy. Um.

1061
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: The cops, including Vasis. Yeah, they start screaming boy at

1062
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: him and they shoot him in the back. And the cops,

1063
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: including Valles, his son claimed to have found a gun

1064
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: next to his body. Um. And in a completely unrelated story,

1065
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: you with special forces units in Afghanistan, Ricie Lee carried

1066
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: AK forty sevens in a combat zone so they could

1067
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:36,919
Speaker 1: drop the next to the body of people they killed,

1068
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: Ridge and declared them insurgents. This has no relation to

1069
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: the previous story at all. I am simply relaying facts

1070
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: two interesting and unrelated stories. Yeah, didn't. Valis also is

1071
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: he's the guy who claimed his Twitter was hacked, right,

1072
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so very way back. At the beginning

1073
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: of this episode, I talked a bit about the racism

1074
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: against Loie Lightfoot and like, one of the tweets that

1075
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: he liked is a tweet like calling Lori a man like,

1076
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: Lord life Foot a man like. It's just unbelievably racist,

1077
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: like homophobic, transphobic shit. And he claims that his account

1078
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: was hacked and people were liking tweets without his permission. Yeah, right,

1079
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: that's all they did. They just liked somebracist sweets. There's

1080
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: like a bunch of other like and the other thing.

1081
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, like Paul Bells doesn't like actually live

1082
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: in Chicago. You mentioned this. He lives in like he

1083
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: claims to live in Polo's Heights, which is also not Chicago,

1084
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: but it's unclear whether he even lives there or if

1085
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: he's in like some kind of like even more insane

1086
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: outlying suburb that's even less Chicago than the stuff is.

1087
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: And he like, he likes, he likes he one of

1088
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: the things he likeing tweets, calling it like shit cago

1089
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: and stuff. And it's like, well, yeah, it's because he

1090
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: doesn't live in the city. He's not actually like these

1091
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: are like a bunch of his support, a bunch of

1092
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: the money he's getting are from like drained suburban like

1093
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: reactionary and okay, So I want to tell one last

1094
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: story about him that pisses me off a lot, which

1095
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: is the story of a Wake Illinois. So Awake Illinois

1096
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: is like Illinois version of Protect Texas Kids. It's a

1097
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: group that does Nazi protests at drag events. They managed

1098
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: to destroy a bakery called Uprising for trying to hold

1099
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: a drag bunt brunch so that they Awake did all

1100
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: this thing of like, ah, they're grooming kids, and then

1101
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys showed up and attacked it, and then

1102
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,959
Speaker 1: someone like vandalized it, and they nearly had to close

1103
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: the entire bakery until a go fund me raised thirty

1104
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: thousand dollars for them to survive. They are like, these

1105
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: people are unbelievably homophobic. They rant about groomers constantly. They're

1106
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: like really transphobic. Anyways, Paul Vallis spoke at one of

1107
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: their fundraisers. Oh god. So after this came out, Vallis

1108
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: distanced himself from the group, saying you didn't know what

1109
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: they represented and just wanted to support school choice. Awake

1110
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: responded by going, hey, what the fuck. You absolutely know

1111
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: who we are, and they released another video of Vallis

1112
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: and another Awake event where he said that AWAKES president

1113
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: shad An Adcock should run for governor, So if elected,

1114
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: would I probably be the most openly homophobic democratic like

1115
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: mayor in the country, which is a pretty wild like,

1116
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: which is pretty wild claim, but like I can't think

1117
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: of anyone else who actually like showed up at an

1118
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: event where people just screaming about groomers, like yeah, and

1119
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: of the Democrats, he is just a Republican, Like he's

1120
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: he's like like a pretty right wing like Republican who

1121
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: runs the Democrat because Chicago political machine is also just

1122
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: so far right. I thought this was because low Lightfoot

1123
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: defounded the police. Mayor. Oh, I thought that's what happened,

1124
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: and people want the police back. That's what That's what

1125
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: I That's what I've told you know. The thing is

1126
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: actually very funny about the elections is like, so there

1127
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: is elections for these like police district councils are just

1128
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: supposed to be these like civilian oversight boards and the

1129
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: like reform. There was kind of there was an alliance

1130
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: to sort of like reform defund an abolitionist candidates, and

1131
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: they did fucking amazing and the pro police candidates got

1132
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: fucking clabbard and it Meanwhile, every single national story about

1133
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: the election was like Chicago crime. I was like, you

1134
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: guys don't understand how much everyone here hates the police,

1135
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: Like I like, they murdered a thirteen year old, like

1136
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: fucking two years ago. I yeah, good, Yeah, I'm gonna

1137
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hedge my thing here by saying there's so

1138
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: much other Paul Valle shit I couldn't fit, Like I

1139
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: really wanted to talk about Keith Thornton, who is Chicago's

1140
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: George Santos, who like his thing is that he stole

1141
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: nine to eleven dispatcher Valor and is like keep showing

1142
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: up in pictures with Vallis. Just just google Keith Thornton

1143
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: and you will have a good time. Like, there are

1144
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: so many other Valist things that he did that are awful.

1145
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: There are probably things that he's done that will never

1146
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: know about because he did them in like I don't know,

1147
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: like like what the fuck he was doing in Chile.

1148
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: We probably won't ever know all the things he didn't

1149
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: hate E. Yeah, don't let this guy become the fucking

1150
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: mayor of Chicago. He will leave the city utterly destroyed.

1151
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: Let's go Brandon. I I'm so annoyed that people are

1152
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: on ironically, let's go brandon ing in Chicago now for

1153
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: Brandon Johnson. It's bringing it back, We're taking it back,

1154
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: We're reclaiming it. I reclaim Brandon. Yeah, I'm so bad

1155
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: like bringing Brandon back. Okay, I got in trouble with

1156
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: my boss in twenty fifteen for saying fuck Hillary, like

1157
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: you fucking little bitches. You could just you can just

1158
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: say that. You you could just say fuck Joe Biden

1159
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: like all of your cowards. Yes, it was. It is

1160
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: deeply cowardly afraid of saying fuck. But at the same time,

1161
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: they think they're gonna staged an armed overthrow of the government. Huh. Anyway, Oh,

1162
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: there's actually okay, this is the thing I actually should much.

1163
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of ties between um, there are

1164
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of ties between val Us and guys who

1165
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: were at J six, like and like a lot of

1166
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: j S people support him. He's like he's like he

1167
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: is the MAGA candidate. That's like there's like, oh, there's

1168
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: a whole thing there that I didn't get into because

1169
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's so much you could do, like

1170
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: seven episodes just about Paul Vallas and how much he sucks.

1171
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, stop him if he fucking gets elected. We're

1172
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: doing that. We're doing that. We're doing the fucking Chilean

1173
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: student protests because yeah, hate him. Opie has a bad day. Hey,

1174
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: welcome to It could happen here a podcast about things

1175
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: falling apart um and today it's kind of going to

1176
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: be a conversation about uh, is shit falling apart? Are

1177
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: we all about to be devoured by a rogue AI?

1178
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: Is your job about to be devowered by a rogue AI?

1179
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: These are the questions that we're going to, you know,

1180
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: talk around and about and stuff today and with us

1181
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: today is Noah John Syracusa, a math professor at Bentley University. Noah,

1182
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, and I'm

1183
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: reaching out. We're talking right now because there's an article

1184
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: that was put up in The New York Times on

1185
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: March twenty four, twenty twenty three, titled you can have

1186
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: the Blue Pill or the Red Pill and We're out

1187
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: of Blue Pills, which is a fun title by Yuval

1188
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: Harari Tristan Harris and as a raskin. And it's an

1189
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: article that is kind of about the pitfalls and dangers

1190
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 1: of AI research, of which there definitely are some. I

1191
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: enjoyed your thread on the matter. I thought it was

1192
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: a lucid breakdown of the things the article gets right

1193
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: and the areas in which I think they're a bit

1194
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: fear mongery. So yeah, I think that's probably a good

1195
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: place to start, unless you wanted to start by just

1196
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,919
Speaker 1: kind of generally talking about where you kind of are

1197
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: on AI and what you kind of think, you know,

1198
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 1: the technology is advancing towards right now. Yeah, I mean,

1199
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: I think I can probably answer both those questions and

1200
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: the same because part of why I enjoyed writing that

1201
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: threat dissecting the article is I just had the strangest

1202
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: feeling reading it that I agreed with it so much

1203
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: in principle and yet somehow objected it to so much

1204
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 1: in detail. Yeah, and it thinking about that article helped

1205
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: me think about my own feelings on AI, which you know,

1206
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: every day of the week is slightly different because so

1207
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: much news happens. Yeah, I found myself overall deeply frustrated

1208
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: that I agree with the central conclusion, which is that

1209
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't be just like plowing headlong into this

1210
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: and should be more careful when we we we screw

1211
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: around with technology like this, which I agree with and

1212
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: I feel like should have been the thing we did

1213
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: with like I don't know, Facebook, Twitter, like all of

1214
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: these things like it's less. My obsession is less with

1215
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: like the specific dangers of AI and more with what

1216
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: we keep letting these guys who are fundamentally like gamblers

1217
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: within your capital money really put our society through the

1218
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: ringer without ever asking should we like do any research

1219
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: on maybe how social media affects children and like how

1220
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 1: all of these different things. And it's it's right that, like, yeah,

1221
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: we should be concerned about what these people are going

1222
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: to do with AI, but also why now? Why just now? Yeah?

1223
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: And that raises a really good point, which is what's

1224
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: different now versus what we've been experiencing with social media?

1225
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: And just to give your listeners some context, one of

1226
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: the three authors on this New York Times article is

1227
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: famous for writing this book Sapiens that's a sweeping history

1228
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: of humanity, and the other two are actually most famous

1229
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,919
Speaker 1: for the Netflix documentary The Social Dilemma. So they really

1230
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: are in this camp of warning people about social media algorithms.

1231
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: And as exactly as you're saying, that's sort of this

1232
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: thing that we've been dealing with, probably quite poorly, and

1233
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: now we're kind of moving on to the next societal risk,

1234
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: which is AI. So that as a really important question

1235
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: of what's different now. And I think that's one of

1236
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: the things the articles try to address, which is many

1237
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: of the problems that we already have with algorithms, data

1238
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: driven algorithms, and even AI as it's used in social

1239
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: media is still happening now, but somehow things feel like

1240
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: they're spiring out of control. Yeah, And I think, I mean, honestly,

1241
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: I think a lot of this just has to do

1242
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: with culturally, what are touchstones for AI we're going into this,

1243
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, which are Skynet? You know, like it's that

1244
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and you do see. I feel like

1245
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: the uncredited fourth author on this particular article is James Cameron,

1246
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: because there's pieces of it throughout this wellere like there's

1247
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: some it opens actually pretty provocatively. Imagine that you are

1248
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: boarding an airplane. Half the engineers who built it tell

1249
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: you there is a ten percent chance the plane will crash,

1250
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 1: killing you and everyone else on it. Would you still board?

1251
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, over seven hundred top academics and

1252
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: researchers behind the leading artificial intelligence companies were asked in

1253
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: a survey about future AI risk. Half of those surveys,

1254
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: there was a ten percent or greater chance of human

1255
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: extinction from future AI systems, which, yeah, let's zoom it on. Yeah. Yeah,

1256
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,919
Speaker 1: that's because what I tried to do in my thread

1257
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: was go through all the claims and assertions and really

1258
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: pause and say hold on. But that's a great one

1259
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: to start, because there's a lot to dig in right there. Yeah. So,

1260
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: first of all, there's a huge difference in that airplanes

1261
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: are based on science and physics and things that we

1262
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: understand pretty well. There's a lot to it, and there's

1263
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: been millions of flights, so you have a lot of data.

1264
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 1: You know, how many planes crash and how many don't.

1265
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: Maybe one engine goes out, you can do the statistics

1266
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: and CEO you know whatever percent of planes without that

1267
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: engine still land safely. The problem with AI is we're

1268
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: just guessing. Yeah, right, there's no way to know one

1269
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: hundred years from now or ten years from now what

1270
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 1: it's going to do, what the real risks are, so

1271
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: we speculate, and that's not uncharted territory, right Let nuclear

1272
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: weapons were first introduced, people had to guess and speculate.

1273
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: But the danger, I think is putting it in that

1274
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: same category as things like airplanes or climate change. I'll

1275
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: like to think about climate change. When you see these,

1276
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: you know what's the IPCC. I forget the acronym in

1277
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: these reports. That's based on thousands of scientists digging into

1278
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 1: thousands of published papers and all this data really modeling

1279
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: the environment. There's a lot of meat and substance to it.

1280
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: The problem with the AI is it's mostly people I

1281
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 1: hate to say it, but like me or like you,

1282
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: just kind of guessing and thinking, maybe this will happen,

1283
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: maybe that'll happen. The reasonable thing to say. If you're

1284
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: in AARs you just like, yeah, I have concerns that

1285
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: AI could cause serious negative externalities for the human race.

1286
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 1: Perfectly reasonable statement. It is physically impossible to say there's

1287
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: a ten percent chance, exactly because it's never done that before.

1288
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a math professor, and I'm the first

1289
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: to say numbers don't have some intrinsic meaning. Right. If

1290
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: I just say something has maybe a fifteen percent, I'm

1291
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: just making it up. I'm pulling out of my ass. Yeah,

1292
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't make it true. So it's this, it's a

1293
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: general pet peeve I have of sort of giving a

1294
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 1: false sense of precision by using numbers that you don't

1295
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: really know where they came from, or they're just made up.

1296
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: So that's one issue is these numbers are made up,

1297
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 1: and asking a thousand people to make up numbers isn't

1298
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: necessarily any better than asking one or two. You know,

1299
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: then if the numbers made up, it's made up. So

1300
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 1: that's one issue. Yeah, I also do think, and I'm

1301
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: not the I saw someone make a note I think

1302
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: was Ben Collins, who writes for NBC on Twitter, made

1303
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,560
Speaker 1: a note that like, well, the fact that all of

1304
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: these statements about like how dangerous they are about human

1305
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: extinction are coming out of people in the AI industry

1306
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: has started to kind of feel like marketing. That's right, Yeah, exactly,

1307
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of buzz marketing going on here.

1308
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: And I think you mentioned social media, and the authors

1309
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: of this article mentioned social media, and we have to

1310
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: look to the past right to understand the future. I

1311
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: think that's the only way to do it. So, what

1312
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: was one of the biggest scandals in social media was

1313
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 1: Cambridge Analytica, And as you know, we probably a member.

1314
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 1: This was this data privacy scandal where a bunch of

1315
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: data was collected from Facebook users that shouldn't have been

1316
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, people didn't realize that the data is being collected,

1317
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 1: they didn't approve it, and it was used for this

1318
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: election company or this political company that was trying to

1319
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 1: profile people and influenced campaigns towards Donald Trump, towards Brexit.

1320
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: So this was a huge scandal, and you know, Facebook

1321
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: was fine five billion dollars or something, very justifiably, but

1322
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,720
Speaker 1: I would say what it was in retrospect was a

1323
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 1: data privacy issue. People's personal data was leaked when it

1324
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been. The problem was there was so much

1325
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 1: fear and fear monitoring over it that people felt this

1326
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,839
Speaker 1: data was used by these sort of algorithmic mind lasers

1327
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,600
Speaker 1: to kind of know us in such great detail and

1328
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: get us, trick us into voting for Donald Trump and

1329
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: targeting us. And the journey is still kind of out,

1330
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,560
Speaker 1: but most of the evidence looks like Cambridge Analytical it

1331
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: wasn't that effective. They couldn't do it. And it turns

1332
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: out you can know a lot about a person, a

1333
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 1: lot about their data, and it's really hard to influence

1334
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,640
Speaker 1: them to change them. So what happened I think was

1335
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: there was a lot of alarm set spread rightly so

1336
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: about the tech companies. They have too much power, too

1337
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: much data, they know too much about us, and this

1338
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 1: horrible thing happened. The problem is a lot of the

1339
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 1: alarmism then actually reinforce this aura of power, of godlike

1340
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 1: power that the tech companies have. People criticizing them actually

1341
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: gave them more potency than they deserved. And then suddenly

1342
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: Google and Facebook and all they had. It wasn't sudden,

1343
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: but it kind of built it up. They had this

1344
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 1: aura that our algorithms are it's so insanely powerful, and

1345
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: we have to make sure they stay in the right hands,

1346
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 1: and we can do so much. And that's unfortunately what

1347
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: I see happening now a lot, And that is kind

1348
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: of the setting for critiquing this article. Yeah, absolutely agree

1349
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: that this stuff is risky. AI. I absolutely agree that

1350
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,560
Speaker 1: we could go down a dangerous path. But once we

1351
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 1: start leaving firm ground and speculating wildly and using the

1352
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 1: terminator stuff that you described. Yeah, even if you think

1353
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: you're criticizing the tech companies, you know what you're doing

1354
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: giving them the biggest compliment in the world, saying that

1355
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: you guys have created are godlike and you've created these

1356
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 1: mighty machines, You've created a deity, which is very similar

1357
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: to the language this argue article has at the end,

1358
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: and I think it's kind of worth like, as you're

1359
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: bringing up there are real threats. There are real threats

1360
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: that are immediately obvious. The threat that a lot of

1361
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: writers are going to lose their jobs because companies like

1362
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed decide to replace them with you know, chat, GPT

1363
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 1: or whatever. The fact that a lot of artists are

1364
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: going to lose out on work because their work has

1365
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: been hoovered up and it's being used to generate Like

1366
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: these are very real and very immediate concerns that we

1367
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: don't have to They're not hypothetical. We don't have to

1368
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 1: theorize about the AI becoming intelligent for this to be

1369
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: a problem. These are things we have to immediately deal

1370
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: with because it puts people at risk. It's the same

1371
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 1: thing with like, you know, there's a lot that gets

1372
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 1: talked about with Cambridge in Altica, with kind of like

1373
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:04,759
Speaker 1: the different Russian disinformation efforts. But when I think about

1374
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: the stuff that was happening in the same period that

1375
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 1: worries me more. One of the things that occurred is

1376
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: because there was so much money to be made if

1377
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 1: you could get certain things to go viral on YouTube

1378
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,600
Speaker 1: companies that use tools that weren't wildly dissimilar from some

1379
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: of these basically generated CGI videos based on kind of

1380
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: random terms that they knew were likely to trick the

1381
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: algorithm into trending. And god knows how many children were

1382
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 1: parked in front of these like very unhinged videos for

1383
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 1: hours at a time that they would start watching some

1384
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: normal kid musical video or something, and then they're watching

1385
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 1: like the disembodied head of Krusty the crownd bounce around

1386
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: while like some sort of nonsense song gets sung and

1387
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: it's like, what is that actually going to do with kids? Like,

1388
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: we don't know. That's unsettling thought, Yeah, and that's the

1389
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 1: kind of thing, you know, and I'm sure there will

1390
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: be obviously, Like one of the things that this article

1391
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: is not wrong about is that if we kind of

1392
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: leap forward into this technolog oology with the kind of

1393
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: abandon that we're used to giving the tech company, there

1394
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 1: will be unforeseen externalities that we can't predict right now

1395
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: that will be very concerning. I just don't sky in it. Yeah,

1396
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 1: And that's what was so challenging, not just with that article,

1397
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: but with I think the movement we're having is I

1398
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: do agree very much in spirit. I agree with the recommendations.

1399
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: We need to slow down, we need to be more

1400
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: judicious and cautious, we need to really consider these. But again,

1401
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: if we overhype the technology, we may be doing ourselves

1402
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: a disservice by empowering the very entities that we're trying

1403
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 1: to take power from. And as an example like that,

1404
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 1: can I read a quick quote from the article, do

1405
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: you AI's new mastery of language means it can now

1406
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: hack and manipulate the operating system of civilization. By'm gaining

1407
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 1: mastery of language, AI is seizing the master key to

1408
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: civilization from bank vaults to holy sepulchers. That's right, and

1409
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: that I mean, that is fun and you're right to laugh.

1410
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 1: Let's actually zoom in a second. And I think this

1411
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:07,440
Speaker 1: is such a tempting trap that AI is super intelligent

1412
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: in some respects. Right, It's done amazing at chats, amazing,

1413
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: it's jephard be amazing at various things. Chat GPT is

1414
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 1: amazing at these conversations. So what happens is it's so

1415
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 1: tempting to think AI just equal super smart and because

1416
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: it can do those things, and now, look, it can

1417
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 1: converse that it must be the super intelligent conversational entity.

1418
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: And it's really good at taking text that's on the

1419
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: web that it's already looked at and kind of spinning

1420
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,839
Speaker 1: it around and processing. It can come up with poems

1421
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: and weird forms. But that doesn't mean it is super

1422
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: intelligent in all respects. For instance, one of the main

1423
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: issues is to hack civilization. To manipulate us with language,

1424
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 1: it has to kind of know what impact its words

1425
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: have on us, and it doesn't really have that. It

1426
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 1: just has a little conversation at textbox and I can

1427
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 1: give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. So the

1428
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: only data that it's collecting for me when it talks

1429
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 1: to me any of these chat thoughts is did I

1430
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 1: like the response or not. That's pretty weak data to

1431
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:10,679
Speaker 1: try to manipulate me, you know, it's so basic. That's

1432
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: not that different than when I watch YouTube videos. YouTube

1433
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 1: knows what videos I like and what I don't like.

1434
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: When you say that YouTube is hacked civilization, no, it's

1435
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 1: addicted a lot of us, but it's not hacked us. Yeah,

1436
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: we people have hacked YouTube, and that has done some

1437
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: damage to other people. Like, but it's like the thing

1438
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 1: is and that's that's part of why while I have

1439
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: many concerns about this technology, it's not that it's going

1440
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 1: to hack civilization because like, we're really good at doing

1441
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 1: that to each other. Like, there's always huge numbers of

1442
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 1: people hacking bits of the populace and manipulating each other,

1443
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 1: and they're always have been. That's why we figured out

1444
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 1: how to paint like it's I do think that there's um,

1445
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 1: there's an interesting conversation to be had about the part

1446
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 1: of why people are kind of willing to leave anything

1447
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 1: as possible with this stuff is that for folks who

1448
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 1: were just kind of living their lives with a normal

1449
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,719
Speaker 1: amount of attention paid to the tech industry, it seems

1450
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:12,880
Speaker 1: like these tools popped out of nowhere a couple of

1451
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: months ago. Right. It feels like, oh, there has just

1452
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: suddenly been this massive breakthrough. And the reality is that

1453
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: all of the stuff that people you know, chat gpt

1454
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: these different ais that everybody's talking about, this is technology

1455
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 1: that people have been pouring resources into for years and

1456
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 1: years and years and years and years, and that's why

1457
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: it's able to do some of these amazing things that

1458
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: we've seen but it's not. I don't think it means

1459
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:35,759
Speaker 1: that in a month it's going to be a thousand

1460
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 1: times smarter. It's it's it's a process of labor, and

1461
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: it was finally ready to be unveiled to the extent

1462
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 1: that it has been. Maybe that's right. And a good

1463
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 1: example as GPT four which recently came out. There was

1464
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,760
Speaker 1: GPT three before and chat GPT and there is so

1465
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 1: much speculation that GPT four is going to be again

1466
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: this godlike thing that just you know, that brings us

1467
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: to the singularity. And and honestly, it's done better at tests.

1468
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, I forget the numbers, but maybe one of

1469
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: them got a twenty percent grade on some tests and

1470
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: this one got an eighty percent. So that is a

1471
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: significant improvement. Right, If you're a teacher and your students

1472
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 1: improve that much, you should be happy. But as you said,

1473
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: is that a thousand times no, even though the machine

1474
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 1: is much bigger, much more data, and it just shows that. Yeah, Like,

1475
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: the reality is this is incremental progress going at a

1476
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 1: very fast rate, very unsettling even for those of us

1477
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: following the field closely. We're experiencing that kind of vertigo

1478
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: that you're saying that whoa where did this come from?

1479
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:35,720
Speaker 1: So even within the field, and you're absolutely right, if

1480
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 1: you're just at home, you know, not paying attention for

1481
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: a week or a month or a year, suddenly the

1482
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,560
Speaker 1: stuff pops up. It is disorienting. But one thing I

1483
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 1: think that's helped me at least kind of clarify what

1484
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: not even answering what the risks are, but just understanding

1485
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: the different camps of why certain people are reacting differently,

1486
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 1: and why even the people afraid of AI seem to

1487
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,759
Speaker 1: be now fighting amongst each other and why it's getting fractured.

1488
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,679
Speaker 1: Is are you more afraid of this be AI used

1489
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: as a tool by people, or are you more afraid

1490
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 1: of it kind of taking on its own autonomy and

1491
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 1: kind of going rogue and doing its own things. And

1492
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 1: I'm very much afraid of people using it. I think

1493
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 1: big companies are going to use it and there's going

1494
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 1: to be a lot of problems, just like we saw

1495
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:22,560
Speaker 1: with social media. People will get addicted, democracies will be

1496
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: flooded with misinformation, It'll be weaponized by various actors, will

1497
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 1: be bought accounts. So I am very concerned about it

1498
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:33,639
Speaker 1: being used. Basically, it performing the job it was told

1499
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 1: to do, but it'll be told to do dangerous jobs,

1500
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: either making money or making discord. There's another group of

1501
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,839
Speaker 1: people that are more worried about the AI somehow deciding

1502
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 1: on its own to do things to take over. And

1503
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 1: that's where you know, I can't roll it out, But

1504
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: that's where I kind of am skeptical. Let's focus on

1505
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: how people are using it for now, for the foreseeable future.

1506
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to worry yet, at least

1507
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 1: about the AI somehow having a life of its own

1508
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: and stabbing us in the back and enslaving us, because

1509
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 1: there's just so much that can go wrong before you

1510
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 1: even get to that point. Yeah, And it's it's not

1511
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 1: that that's exactly like it's a threat triage kind of thing,

1512
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: where like, is it theoretically possible that one day human

1513
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: beings could create an artificial intelligence that is capable of

1514
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 1: having its own agency that is malicious? Yeah, sure, I guess, Like,

1515
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: I mean maybe, but man, we're there's a lot of

1516
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,520
Speaker 1: us that are very malicious right now that are actively

1517
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: trying to harm other people at scale. I'm concerned about

1518
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: how they will use AI to do that. I think

1519
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 1: botnets are a really good example. One of the things

1520
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 1: that these new this newest generation of AI tools allows

1521
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 1: is more realistic and intelligent bots than I think have

1522
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: been accessible at scale before. And that's a very real concern.

1523
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: I will say when I kind of sorry, when I

1524
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 1: kind of wargame this back and forth with myself. One

1525
01:21:56,360 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 1: thing that is oddly comforting is like, well, the shared

1526
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: comments that we all inhabit of, like ontological truth is

1527
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:10,639
Speaker 1: already so shattered that like there's there's only so much damage.

1528
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 1: I feel like adding additional bots and additional disinformation can

1529
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 1: really do um. Like one one thought on that though,

1530
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,760
Speaker 1: because I've been digging into that too. I've been, you know,

1531
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 1: trying to ponder how to feel about that, because a

1532
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 1: lot of this I don't know, you know, I'm trying

1533
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: to make is. I do think if you go back

1534
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 1: to like twenty sixteen earlier versions of the Internet, you know,

1535
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: before leading up to Donald Trump's election, Yeah, I think

1536
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 1: there was a lot of wild West to Google, to

1537
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: social media, to all these things. Right, fake news was

1538
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 1: just like piling up to the top of Google search results.

1539
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 1: That election was so monumental and such a seismic shockwave

1540
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: through a tech that fake news and misinformation might have

1541
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,880
Speaker 1: played a role, that they really had to do something,

1542
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 1: and I think some companies are more effective than others.

1543
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: I think Google put a lot oft into making sure

1544
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: authoritative sources rise to the top. So what that means

1545
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: is when now you go online and you Google for

1546
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 1: medical information, the top results yougether WebMD or some official CDC,

1547
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 1: your government thing. They're pretty decent reliable. It's not to

1548
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 1: say there's an all that crap on the Internet, but

1549
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 1: Google has done a pretty good job of having the

1550
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 1: good stuff float to the top, and that's the information

1551
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 1: that people see. So what I'm worried is now we

1552
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 1: might be kind of resetting ourselves back to the twenty

1553
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: sixteen where when you're talking to these chatbots that are

1554
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: trained on all the internets. Yeah, I don't know if

1555
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:37,560
Speaker 1: the web mds and the CDC type of information is

1556
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 1: necessarily going to float to the top. Maybe they'll work

1557
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: that out. But I'm also worried that open AI or

1558
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 1: Google or Microsoft or wherever, they'll have ones that are

1559
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 1: pretty reasonable and kind of you know, tuned to appeal

1560
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,679
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. But Elon Musk might build

1561
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 1: his own competitor one that might be really tuned to

1562
01:23:54,439 --> 01:24:00,599
Speaker 1: elevate the right wing site. So I have been around,

1563
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 1: as I mean, and you have been doing so in

1564
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: a much more rigorous manner, I'm sure. But I've screw

1565
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 1: around with a couple of different AI chat and search engines.

1566
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 1: I use find PHI and D sometimes. I've been playing

1567
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: around with being and one of the things I've noticed

1568
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:16,559
Speaker 1: is that you know, if you ask it like, hey,

1569
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 1: summarize for me, like why the Battle of Hastings matter,

1570
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: You'll get a reasonably decent answer. But if I ask

1571
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,439
Speaker 1: it like I don't know, specific questions about myself, I've

1572
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: come to I noticed at first when I did it,

1573
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 1: I would get some really weirdly like colloquial vernacular from

1574
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 1: it explaining things, and I realized it was just pulling

1575
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: answers directly that fans had asked about me on the

1576
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: subreddit that this show has. And so when I think

1577
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 1: about like ways in which to game the system, well,

1578
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: you make a bunch of bots. You have them post

1579
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: questions and answers that are you know, supportive of this

1580
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: specific product line or whatever on a subreddit and hope

1581
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: that it gets picked like scanned by an AI, and

1582
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: that becomes part of its like answer for you know

1583
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 1: what happens if you know, I can't stop itching or whatever.

1584
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, like, but I like obviously you can

1585
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 1: see using them ways in which these cannon will be

1586
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: gamed to some extent. You know, it's always kind of

1587
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,560
Speaker 1: a red Queen sort of situation where you have to

1588
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:14,679
Speaker 1: disinformation people fighting this info. You're always running as fast

1589
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 1: as you can just to stay in place that's right,

1590
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 1: And that is that brings up another issue which I

1591
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,879
Speaker 1: do feel like this is possibly really tipping the balance,

1592
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:26,560
Speaker 1: and that it takes a certain amount of resources to

1593
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 1: create misinformation, it takes a certain amount of resources to

1594
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:32,799
Speaker 1: debunk it. Right, A journalist has to sit down, Snopes

1595
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,479
Speaker 1: has to write a little piece about it. And the

1596
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 1: problem is with this AI, it's suddenly just dropping the

1597
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 1: price of creation down to essentially zero. Anyone can create

1598
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 1: essentially limitless supply of quasi information that may or may

1599
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 1: not be true. But the problem is, is the price

1600
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 1: of journalism of debunking also going down, maybe by fifty percent, right,

1601
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 1: maybe it takes you half as much time to write

1602
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 1: an article. It's not going to zero, No, So that's

1603
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 1: the balance is Creating stuff has gotten a lot cheaper.

1604
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 1: Detecting debunking, doing proper journalism it's gotten a little bit cheaper.

1605
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: So I'm worried that that's journalists are already stretched then.

1606
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 1: And this is by far my biggest concern because it's

1607
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 1: it's not just this that's obviously a significant factor in it.

1608
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,840
Speaker 1: There will be more disinformation, there will not be more journalists,

1609
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 1: in part because I think AI is going to take

1610
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 1: jobs from that, particularly low level d It's not going

1611
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 1: to replace, you know, prize winning columnists at the New

1612
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: York Times, and it's not going to replace like guys

1613
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: like me who have a very long and established career

1614
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 1: of doing the specific thing that we do. But I

1615
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,720
Speaker 1: think back to when I got started as a as

1616
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 1: a journalist, as a writer, it was as a tech blogger,

1617
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: and I had an X number of articles that I

1618
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 1: had to get out per day, and obviously, like my

1619
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: boss was essentially trusting that with that many articles, i'd

1620
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: have a few that did well on Google, and that

1621
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: brings in traffic, and that brought in money. And there's

1622
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: a degree to which you're just kind of doing seo shit.

1623
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 1: But it's also I can did my first interviews for

1624
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,720
Speaker 1: that job. I went to trade shows for the first time.

1625
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: I did my first on the ground journalism for that job.

1626
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: It taught me how to write quickly and an a

1627
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: polished nature. And I was not writing anything that was

1628
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 1: like crucial to the development of humankind, but it made

1629
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: me into the kind of person who was later able

1630
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:21,880
Speaker 1: to write things that were read by people all over

1631
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,600
Speaker 1: the world, and that had an influence on people. And

1632
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 1: I worry about the brain dry, not just among journalists,

1633
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 1: but among writers, among artists, you know, people who do

1634
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 1: illustrations and stuff. Eventually, musicians, at least some kinds of

1635
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: musicians will probably also run up against this, where the

1636
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: stuff that it was easy for kind of people breaking

1637
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 1: in to get a little bit of work that would

1638
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,639
Speaker 1: hone their skills and allow them to, you know, live

1639
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 1: doing the thing that they're interested in, is going to disappear.

1640
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,400
Speaker 1: And more and more of the stuff that we kind

1641
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 1: of casually low level consume, not our high art, not

1642
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 1: our favorite movies, not our favorite books, but the stuff

1643
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 1: that we or when we stumble upon a web page

1644
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 1: or like in a commercial or whatever will be increasingly

1645
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: made by AIS and that AI will be pulling from

1646
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 1: an increasingly narrow set of things that humans made because

1647
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: less humans will get that entry level work, and that

1648
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 1: is there's something concerning there that is something that worries

1649
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 1: me about the future of just creativity. Yeah, and I think,

1650
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,560
Speaker 1: I mean two points. One is just to kind of

1651
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,360
Speaker 1: be Devil's advocate a little bit, because I do sympathize

1652
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 1: and I think you're right, but a little bit devil's

1653
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:31,679
Speaker 1: advocate is it might be on the out flip side

1654
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:33,640
Speaker 1: of the coin that there's people that feel like they

1655
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: have artistic imagination and desires but lack the technical ability,

1656
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 1: and suddenly they can paint, so to speak, by using

1657
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 1: these aiimage generators. Maybe someone has some form of dyslexia,

1658
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,639
Speaker 1: or they're English as a second language or even native

1659
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 1: speaker without any of these issues obstructions, but just finds

1660
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 1: the writing process difficult, and maybe AI enables them to

1661
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: be a writer, to contribute. So I could see, you know,

1662
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,879
Speaker 1: there's there's going to be the pros and the negatives,

1663
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:04,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know how the balance is, but I

1664
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 1: think you're right thinking from a profession that's sort of

1665
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:11,560
Speaker 1: like a passion project view. From a professional view, I

1666
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 1: do see the profession narrowing. If it journalists are expected

1667
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,920
Speaker 1: to work twice as quickly because they're all using chatbots,

1668
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: there's probably going to be half of half as many

1669
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 1: of them, right, I mean, that's that's the economics. But

1670
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 1: this brings up a bigger issue, which is I do

1671
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 1: think what you're hitting on is there are these long

1672
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 1: term risks that maybe AI is gonna fuel this rebellion

1673
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,560
Speaker 1: of robots and this. You know, maybe, but again, we

1674
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: have an economics, social, political, economic world we live in,

1675
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 1: and I just think let's really focus on the issues

1676
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 1: we have. Now. That's not discounting the future. It's not

1677
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:49,840
Speaker 1: like let's burn a bunch of carbon emitting fuels because

1678
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:52,960
Speaker 1: who cares about climate change? That's our grandkids problems. Yeah,

1679
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 1: this is different. It's like, let's think about the jobs

1680
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: the world. I mean, another way to put this is

1681
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: if we mess up our economy, mess up our democracy

1682
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 1: by people losing jobs and mass protests and losing trust

1683
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 1: in the government and there's just an erosion of truth,

1684
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:10,320
Speaker 1: we're not going to be able to handle climate change

1685
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: or any of these big AI know, the singularity type

1686
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 1: of risks. So what I feel like is let's focus

1687
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 1: on what keeps our economy and our sanity and our humanity.

1688
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 1: Let's keep this fabric of society together now so that

1689
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 1: we're more equipped in the future to handle all the

1690
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 1: risks AI and otherwise. But this goes back to what

1691
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:36,640
Speaker 1: you're saying, which is, these are real issues in the

1692
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 1: short term, and if we don't address them, if we

1693
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 1: get distracted by the long term, we're not going to

1694
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,800
Speaker 1: be ready to address the long term even if we

1695
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 1: think about it now, we'll be so distracted and so dismayed. Yeah,

1696
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 1: so I think we have to be practical here. I agree,

1697
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 1: and I am also I think it's a valid point

1698
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: that you make about the fact that all these are

1699
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 1: tools that will reduce options for some people, there are

1700
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 1: also tools that create options that can be used for

1701
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 1: the creation of art of culture. I do think some

1702
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 1: people I know have brought up photoshop when I talk

1703
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 1: about my concerns with AI and are like, you know,

1704
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:12,320
Speaker 1: there were a lot of you know, people, draftsmen and

1705
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 1: whatnot who were concerned when photoshop hit because it was

1706
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,640
Speaker 1: a threat to some of the things that they did

1707
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:21,760
Speaker 1: for money. And photoshop effectively has created whole forms of

1708
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: art that didn't exist or didn't exist in the same

1709
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:26,840
Speaker 1: fashion before it did as a tool and tools like it.

1710
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 1: And that's not a think I think it's kind of

1711
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: worth I don't like, I don't want to be kind

1712
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 1: of just on the edge of tragedy here. You know,

1713
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:39,680
Speaker 1: this is a there's a lot of different ways this

1714
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 1: could go, and they're not all bad. I think we're

1715
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:45,640
Speaker 1: all used to calamity right now, so much so that

1716
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 1: we potentially expect it in situations where it's not the

1717
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:52,599
Speaker 1: inevitable outcome. Well, I mean that's I think one way

1718
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 1: to kind of boil a lot of that down is

1719
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 1: we can adapt. We just need time to do so

1720
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: to many things. And what's really challenging and frustrating now

1721
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 1: is the pace is so fast. It's not just an illusion.

1722
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 1: It's not just oh, if you don't pay attention to AI,

1723
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:11,360
Speaker 1: it really is fast. It's very very hard for us

1724
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 1: to adapt. So, just thinking of the Internet, we got

1725
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot, like individuals as users and tech companies got

1726
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 1: a lot better at dealing with clickbait. Right, YouTube was

1727
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:22,960
Speaker 1: tons of clickbait, and they figured out ways to demote

1728
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:25,200
Speaker 1: that to some extent. We got a lot better at

1729
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: keeping fake news out of the high search rankings and Google.

1730
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, a lot of these problems that came up.

1731
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 1: We're not perfectly addressed, not even close. But there was

1732
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 1: significant progress and that's often understated. But if these problems

1733
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 1: are coming so fast and so intense, it's a lot

1734
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: to adapt to. And that's what's really the challenge is

1735
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the pace. And I think we're seeing a very, very

1736
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 1: breakneck pace that's really hard. Now does that mean you're

1737
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 1: on the side of like Elon Musk and some of

1738
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 1: those folks who just signed that letter being like, maybe

1739
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,600
Speaker 1: we should put a pause on AI research because you know,

1740
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent against it. Again, I kind

1741
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: of am, like, Man, I wish we'd been having this

1742
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:09,320
Speaker 1: conversation when Facebook dropped or YouTube dropped. But I don't

1743
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: think that's a realistic thing. I'll say that. But I

1744
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:15,639
Speaker 1: do think, yeah, yeah, so I would say, no, I'm

1745
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 1: not I'm not a favor that For one thing. I mean,

1746
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:23,639
Speaker 1: in a very practical sense, you think all these companies

1747
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,120
Speaker 1: that are putting billions of dollars in these investments in

1748
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 1: a AI are all going to sit around saying, you

1749
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 1: know what, let's just not do this for a few

1750
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:34,760
Speaker 1: of course not. So here's what I think, They're not

1751
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: going to slow down. What's going to happen is going

1752
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 1: to happen even if some players decide to be responsible

1753
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 1: and slow down. Guess what that means. The only people

1754
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,200
Speaker 1: plunging ahead are going to be the irresponsible ones. So

1755
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:46,960
Speaker 1: what I think we need to do is I don't

1756
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 1: think we can really slow that down. So what about

1757
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:52,639
Speaker 1: the flip side. I think we need to accelerate public

1758
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 1: education on artificial intelligence. I think we need to accelerate

1759
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: government legislation, regulation, intern national cooperation. I don't think we

1760
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:04,720
Speaker 1: can solve this by slowing AI down. I do think

1761
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 1: we need to find a way to speed up our

1762
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 1: democratic process processes. It's taken us how many years to

1763
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:13,600
Speaker 1: pass basically nothing about social media in the US and

1764
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 1: some mixed results in Europe. Yeah, that's the problem, right,

1765
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 1: If we could work faster, then I think we could

1766
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 1: keep up. And I think that that's actually the long term,

1767
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 1: like practical survival thing from this is that I hope

1768
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 1: we get is like, yeah, we've always needed to be

1769
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 1: more careful about the things that we expose billions of

1770
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 1: people too. Suddenly it should have happened before now. But

1771
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:42,320
Speaker 1: I hope that this I hope that all I hope

1772
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:45,439
Speaker 1: the fact that AI, because of James Cameron, is coated

1773
01:34:45,479 --> 01:34:47,720
Speaker 1: into our brains to be something that triggers a little

1774
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:50,160
Speaker 1: bit of panic in people. I hope that rather than

1775
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: reacting with panic, it leads to a more intelligent and

1776
01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:57,680
Speaker 1: considered state of affairs when potentially embracing technologies that are

1777
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 1: going to change life for huge numbers of people. That's right,

1778
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:03,320
Speaker 1: and that is I think we have an opportunity here

1779
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:06,160
Speaker 1: to experience that and explore than and try, and that

1780
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 1: is kind of what I was aiming for. And that

1781
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:10,560
Speaker 1: threat is again I love that article that you know

1782
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 1: you mentioned at the beginning, But if we start going

1783
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 1: down this road of hype, there is a danger that

1784
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:18,639
Speaker 1: we're going to fall into these traps. And I think

1785
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:21,759
Speaker 1: let's stay grounded. Let's say practical, let's really identify the risks.

1786
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 1: Not that I'm some guru and know what they are,

1787
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 1: but it's almost easier to see what's not true than

1788
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 1: what is true. Yeah, and that's I think let's all

1789
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 1: try to police each other and make sure we're focusing

1790
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,680
Speaker 1: on practical things that really are manageable, that really are

1791
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: genuine risks that are impacting people, that are impacting people today,

1792
01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 1: and especially ones that are impacting marginalized populations. Yes, so

1793
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 1: I think let's hope we learn these lessons. And I

1794
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 1: am not optimistic, but I'm not as cynical. I think

1795
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 1: there's a lot of important discussions happening now that let's

1796
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:57,680
Speaker 1: just say, there's a lot more discussion now than we

1797
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 1: had with social media, and maybe that's a good thing. Yeah, well,

1798
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 1: I think that's a good note to end on. Noah,

1799
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 1: did you have anything you kind of wanted to plug

1800
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 1: before we roll out here? No, I just I think

1801
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:12,640
Speaker 1: it's it's a great topic that everyone can be involved in,

1802
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:16,599
Speaker 1: and I just my plug is just don't be intimidated,

1803
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:18,600
Speaker 1: don't be afraid. I am writing a book that's not

1804
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:20,000
Speaker 1: going to come up for a couple of years that's

1805
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:22,760
Speaker 1: trying to help empower people to kind of be part

1806
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 1: of these conversations. But that's far off. I just want

1807
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 1: to say broadly, don't be intimidated and don't fall for

1808
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: this narrative that sometimes happens in tech communities that, oh,

1809
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a tech person, I don't have

1810
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 1: a chance to understand this stuff. Affects all of us,

1811
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:40,679
Speaker 1: and how it affects you matters, and your opinion matters,

1812
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,719
Speaker 1: and your voice matters. And we're all part of social media,

1813
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 1: we're all very soon going to be part of AI

1814
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 1: in chat thoughts, So don't be afraid to join the conversation.

1815
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,680
Speaker 1: You don't need any technical background because I think the

1816
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 1: subject is just as much sociological as technical. It's about people.

1817
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:58,360
Speaker 1: I think that's a great point to end on. Thank

1818
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: you so much, Noah, really appreciate your time. And uh,

1819
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:04,400
Speaker 1: everybody else, have a have a nice day. I mean

1820
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:07,320
Speaker 1: you have a nice day too. Also, thanks to you too.

1821
01:37:07,360 --> 01:37:26,720
Speaker 1: It's lots of fun. Ah, welcome back to It could

1822
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,320
Speaker 1: Happen here a podcast about things falling apart, sometimes about

1823
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 1: putting them back together, um, sometimes just about enduring difficult times.

1824
01:37:35,439 --> 01:37:38,000
Speaker 1: And it's it's been a rough couple of weeks, what

1825
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:41,640
Speaker 1: with the mass shooting in Tennessee and the Right accelerating

1826
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 1: their anti trans paranoia, the whole you know, Trump getting

1827
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:48,800
Speaker 1: arrested and all that, all that, Yes, that has really

1828
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: hit all of us really hard, yes, and really yeah deeply.

1829
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 1: Now that now that Trump is has been charged with felonies,

1830
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 1: he's officially a friend of mine. So we're on Trump now.

1831
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 1: I really convicted. I'm really conflicted between my acab side

1832
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:07,360
Speaker 1: my illegalist side. It's really it's really hard. I mean,

1833
01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:11,080
Speaker 1: thirty four felonies, that's quite a legalist. Very few of

1834
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:14,000
Speaker 1: the people I know who commit crimes is like a vocation,

1835
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 1: have that many. It's pretty difficult. But at any rate,

1836
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's been a rough couple of weeks, and

1837
01:38:21,560 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 1: I thought we could use a lighter episode to, you know,

1838
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: help everybody everybody feel better. And I know that you

1839
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:32,560
Speaker 1: Mia and you Gare are both young uns. H you

1840
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:35,360
Speaker 1: you missed the earlier age of the Internet and the

1841
01:38:35,479 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 1: heroes of that ancient age. You know, when I was

1842
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:42,040
Speaker 1: a child, you know, it was Jupiter and uh and

1843
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:45,679
Speaker 1: and all the Greek gods of the old Internet y'all.

1844
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:47,720
Speaker 1: Y'all have come up more in the Roman gods of

1845
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: the old Internet era. So yeah, I wanted I wanted

1846
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,680
Speaker 1: to talk about an ancient hero of the Internet. And

1847
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 1: perhaps this will become a series that we do now

1848
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,080
Speaker 1: and again where we talk about we talk about the

1849
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:02,680
Speaker 1: gods of the past and today. The ancient deity that

1850
01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:05,760
Speaker 1: we're talking about is kind of like the Internet's Hercules,

1851
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:09,400
Speaker 1: a man named Troy Hertabes. Have you guys heard of

1852
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:13,679
Speaker 1: Troy Hertabes. No, I've not. I've not heard of Troy Hernabes,

1853
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,920
Speaker 1: but I do have one correction. Jupiter is actually a

1854
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: Roman god. The Greek version is Zeus. You're right, You're right,

1855
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:24,200
Speaker 1: you're right. Before before some freak dms me and sends

1856
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:27,519
Speaker 1: me like three phs on this, I'm just gonna put

1857
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 1: that out there. Do not DM me about this. Yeah,

1858
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 1: wet do that thing where we start, We start including

1859
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:36,840
Speaker 1: one of these every episode that, yeah, just fucking up

1860
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: purposefully in order to get people. They love doing it,

1861
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 1: they love being able to hop on I do. Ever,

1862
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 1: we did get recently, we did the liver King episodes

1863
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 1: this week, and somebody popped on to be like, hey, guys,

1864
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 1: you're probably not aware of this, but the livers of

1865
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 1: polar bears contain enough vitamin hundred and forty people something

1866
01:39:56,640 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 1: like that, Um, don't eat polar bear lovers. This is

1867
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 1: relevant because we are talking about a man today whose

1868
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:06,720
Speaker 1: lifelong goal was to develop a suit of armor that

1869
01:40:06,800 --> 01:40:09,400
Speaker 1: allowed him to fight bears in hand to hand compact.

1870
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 1: It is actually very applicable to us, because just last

1871
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: week we went to the theater to watch Cocaine Bear.

1872
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:20,200
Speaker 1: You're right, this man would have been one of the

1873
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:23,080
Speaker 1: only people capable of dealing with a cocaine bear. So

1874
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:26,240
Speaker 1: once upon a time, before the breaking of the world,

1875
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 1: there lived a beautiful maniac named Troy Hertebes. Troy was

1876
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:32,840
Speaker 1: a simple man. He was born in Hamilton, Ontario, in

1877
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. He liked the outdoors, and he was

1878
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:40,200
Speaker 1: a dedicated conservationist. The one exception to his abiding love

1879
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 1: of nature was bears. On August fourth, nineteen eighty four,

1880
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: when Troy was twenty one years old, he went hiking

1881
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 1: in central British Columbia. Now he's given a couple of

1882
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:52,920
Speaker 1: versions of this story over the years. Some that this happened,

1883
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 1: say that this happened when he was a boy, Others

1884
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:57,960
Speaker 1: say he was like twenty years old, but all agree

1885
01:40:58,040 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 1: that he wound up in close proxim to a grizzly bear.

1886
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:04,360
Speaker 1: In the most exciting and almost certainly untrue version of

1887
01:41:04,439 --> 01:41:07,639
Speaker 1: the story, the bear knocked Troy down and he dropped

1888
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 1: the twenty two caliber rifle he was carrying, which would

1889
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:15,479
Speaker 1: not have made much difference against a grizzly bear, you

1890
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:18,840
Speaker 1: will only make it more upset. Two is not the

1891
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 1: weapon you want to that situation. In a desperate attempt

1892
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:25,160
Speaker 1: to defend himself, he drew a knife. We're gonna talk

1893
01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 1: about Troy's knives in a minute here about. In an

1894
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:32,240
Speaker 1: interview with Mental Flass many years later, Troy claimed that

1895
01:41:32,479 --> 01:41:35,240
Speaker 1: seeing the knife, the bear thought better of attacking him.

1896
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:40,640
Speaker 1: After this, Okaya a minute, That's not how bears were.

1897
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:44,760
Speaker 1: Has this bear been like involved in other fights guys

1898
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 1: like another maniac bear got stabbed behind a seven eleven

1899
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:52,960
Speaker 1: and is like, na, man, I don't grizz don't funk

1900
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:57,519
Speaker 1: with knives no more. I've been through that ship like

1901
01:41:57,560 --> 01:42:02,000
Speaker 1: a street gay like na brot na bro are worth it?

1902
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 1: And so he later claims an expert told him he

1903
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:10,240
Speaker 1: would have been mauled if there'd been any cubs this.

1904
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:15,280
Speaker 1: I believe bears very rarely attack people. Now, a normal

1905
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:17,519
Speaker 1: man would have taken this number one as boy I

1906
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:20,320
Speaker 1: sure got lucky, and number two as I should be

1907
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 1: more careful when out in the woods. But Troy was

1908
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:26,040
Speaker 1: not a normal man. His first thought was that he

1909
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:29,560
Speaker 1: needed to invent a new form of mace made specifically

1910
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:33,639
Speaker 1: four bears. He had been beaten and developing bear mace

1911
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:37,160
Speaker 1: by an actual scientist, Although the first paper on bear

1912
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: mace was published in nineteen eighty four, so it makes

1913
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 1: sense that it wouldn't have been available at the time.

1914
01:42:42,360 --> 01:42:44,360
Speaker 1: It was a reasonable thing to be like, maybe we

1915
01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 1: should have a mace for use against bears. There are

1916
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 1: again several versions of what came next. I'm going to

1917
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:54,040
Speaker 1: quote from one that I found in a write up

1918
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:57,400
Speaker 1: by the spec Now quote from then, he decided that

1919
01:42:57,520 --> 01:42:59,880
Speaker 1: his destiny in life was to invent a dependable bear

1920
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:03,479
Speaker 1: spray repellent, but he realized field testing with bears would

1921
01:43:03,479 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 1: be needed. This would require a protective suit for the

1922
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:12,120
Speaker 1: person doing the test. No. In his interview with Mental Floss,

1923
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 1: one of the later pieces on the Man, Troy dropped

1924
01:43:14,360 --> 01:43:16,759
Speaker 1: the mace story and claimed that he had the idea

1925
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,640
Speaker 1: just to make bear resistant armor a year after his

1926
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: grizzly encounter when he was watching RoboCop and decided bear

1927
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 1: researchers would need protective armor that would let them test

1928
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:31,760
Speaker 1: bear spray and also safely observed grizzly behavior. Troy is

1929
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 1: something of an unreliable narrator, but I will say I

1930
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:37,840
Speaker 1: do not doubt that the film RoboCop influenced his subsequent

1931
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:44,280
Speaker 1: ass No, he absolutely had this idea that makes that

1932
01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:47,640
Speaker 1: makes the most sense out of anything you said. It

1933
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:52,559
Speaker 1: is very logical. So it is now Troy, it should

1934
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 1: be noted, is not the first, probably not the first

1935
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:57,880
Speaker 1: man who has thought I should develop a suit of

1936
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 1: armor to allow me to grapple with bears in hand

1937
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:04,400
Speaker 1: to hand combat. It is possible that in medieval Europe

1938
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:07,640
Speaker 1: some people hunted bears while wearing full body suits of

1939
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 1: armor covered in spikes. There is debate as to whether

1940
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:14,000
Speaker 1: or not this really happened. The gist of why this

1941
01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:16,519
Speaker 1: is a debate is that there's an insane looking suit

1942
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:19,639
Speaker 1: of armor currently in a Houston museum that was probably

1943
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,800
Speaker 1: made in switzerlander Germany like four hundred dish years ago.

1944
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 1: Researchers have not conclusively determined why it was made or

1945
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:29,040
Speaker 1: for what purpose, but one theory is that it was

1946
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:31,720
Speaker 1: used for bear baiting. If so, it was used for

1947
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 1: European bears, which are significantly smaller than Besty bears, and

1948
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 1: as far as we know, was never a widespread practice.

1949
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:41,519
Speaker 1: This is because attempting to fight a bear in hand

1950
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:43,840
Speaker 1: to hand with a suit of armor is insane and

1951
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 1: something only a madman would do. But I am going

1952
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:48,519
Speaker 1: to show you this suit of armor because it looks

1953
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 1: like something from a David Lynch movie. Oh I'm so thrilled,

1954
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 1: specifically the face. So look at that, look at that

1955
01:44:55,880 --> 01:45:00,760
Speaker 1: beautiful thing. Oh my god. Yeah, it's in the chase

1956
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 1: of that unsettling but they think probably somewhere around Austria

1957
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,160
Speaker 1: or Switzerland, although it's not. I don't think known to

1958
01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:12,519
Speaker 1: a point of certainty. That looks fucked up. It looks

1959
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 1: like it looks like a like like like a metal

1960
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:18,160
Speaker 1: casting of someone's head but with like but with like

1961
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 1: the pinhead thing. Yeah, it's a howlazy I think is

1962
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:27,600
Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, the face on it is distinctly unsettling,

1963
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 1: like they could have just made a normal helmet, but

1964
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:33,639
Speaker 1: like no, no, like there's a nose, it's the guy's face.

1965
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 1: We gotta it's We're not doing this right unless we

1966
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:40,920
Speaker 1: like peek into the uncanny valley with this thing. Troy

1967
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:44,200
Speaker 1: was not interested in the fact that attempting to fight

1968
01:45:44,240 --> 01:45:47,400
Speaker 1: a bear and body armor is just objectively nuts, and

1969
01:45:47,560 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 1: since he was as handy as he was unhinged, he

1970
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:52,800
Speaker 1: set swiftly to building a suit of armor and then

1971
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:55,360
Speaker 1: testing it. Um, I'm going to read another quote from

1972
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:58,519
Speaker 1: the specs right up, because it's extremely funny. So the

1973
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:01,160
Speaker 1: suit became his focus of a putting it through all

1974
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:03,360
Speaker 1: kinds of tests that included being run down by a

1975
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,599
Speaker 1: pickup truck driven by his pot, rolling off the side

1976
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,960
Speaker 1: of a cliff, and being pummeled by bikers with baseball bats.

1977
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna play you a video of Troy um

1978
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:17,519
Speaker 1: one of these tests where Troy gets hit by a tree.

1979
01:46:18,640 --> 01:46:21,840
Speaker 1: It's almost exactly that scene from hot Rod. If you've

1980
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,840
Speaker 1: watched the movie hot Rod where they like swing a

1981
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:29,280
Speaker 1: log down at him and hit him. Um, that may

1982
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 1: in fact be what that scene is based on, but

1983
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna share that with y'all. Now the

1984
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:56,280
Speaker 1: log is U Oh my gosh, so get them guys.

1985
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:01,400
Speaker 1: I cannot emphasize enough. It looks like half this armor

1986
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:06,599
Speaker 1: is held together by duct tape. Just like. This looks

1987
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:09,479
Speaker 1: like a fever dream combination of the Wizard of Oz

1988
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:14,040
Speaker 1: and like and like the Battle of Endor walks. He

1989
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,479
Speaker 1: walks throwing massive logs at the guy in the middle.

1990
01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:21,720
Speaker 1: Tin suit, it's white, it's a white suit too. Yeah,

1991
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 1: it looks almost like something from um like speed Racer.

1992
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:29,639
Speaker 1: Is weird the aesthetic that I would reckon, I would

1993
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:32,479
Speaker 1: closest compare it too. It is kind of like that

1994
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:37,759
Speaker 1: anime robot style design. Yeah, it's it's it's profoundly unhinged.

1995
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:40,160
Speaker 1: So I want to I want to play you a

1996
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 1: clip of him getting the helmet off so you can

1997
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:46,400
Speaker 1: listen to Troy talk and see this man's face better

1998
01:47:46,479 --> 01:47:51,120
Speaker 1: than the first. Yeahs, I had that time, that stuff

1999
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 1: on my mouth. Yeah, if I have a most piece,

2000
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 1: a mostpiece, you can do that all day long. I

2001
01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:57,240
Speaker 1: got the airbags in the back, so my neck hasn't

2002
01:47:57,240 --> 01:47:58,519
Speaker 1: got a lot of place, so that'll be perfect for

2003
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:00,439
Speaker 1: the grizzy I can I can take he can give

2004
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:04,600
Speaker 1: me with that log if that couldn't do anything to me?

2005
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,240
Speaker 1: And I feel great, like really great. And actually my

2006
01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:13,960
Speaker 1: left hand was asleepist now a week. Really you don't say, yeah,

2007
01:48:14,479 --> 01:48:19,599
Speaker 1: truly damage fascinating man. So I'm gonna play you now

2008
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:22,160
Speaker 1: him being attacked by a bunch of men with baseball

2009
01:48:22,240 --> 01:48:25,000
Speaker 1: bats as he attempts to move in this suit. And

2010
01:48:25,120 --> 01:48:27,679
Speaker 1: I have to emphasize to you he is not capable

2011
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:30,320
Speaker 1: of moving in this thing. This is an immobile suit

2012
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:33,280
Speaker 1: of armor that he can he can almost shuffle in it,

2013
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:35,639
Speaker 1: but not quite. His idea with the with the pickup

2014
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 1: truck and the bikers with regards to big men and

2015
01:48:38,479 --> 01:48:41,719
Speaker 1: being an anthropologist, he yet he looked at the testings

2016
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 1: we had originally done with normal sized man, you know,

2017
01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:46,080
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty hundred and eighty pound, he said,

2018
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:47,960
Speaker 1: the public isn't gonna buy it. They're they're looking at

2019
01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 1: this monstrous, groovy bear and they're looking at a normal

2020
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:53,280
Speaker 1: size man hitting you with bats and boards and stuff

2021
01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:54,640
Speaker 1: like that. They're not going to buy. You have to

2022
01:48:54,720 --> 01:49:17,400
Speaker 1: give them reality. This is insane. This is so weird, amazing, amazing,

2023
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:24,560
Speaker 1: Like a gang of men attacking this nerd in a

2024
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:30,639
Speaker 1: metal suit is like, yes, it's so funny. It's it's

2025
01:49:30,800 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 1: it's extremely funny. They're like and they pick like terminator

2026
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:40,040
Speaker 1: two looking bikers like it's out of their way. All

2027
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:44,400
Speaker 1: of the stylization is super super bizarre. Yeah, it's it's

2028
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:47,679
Speaker 1: such a strained documentary. This is from the documentary project Grizzly,

2029
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:50,760
Speaker 1: and there's Troy gives. In the various interviews, he does

2030
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:54,679
Speaker 1: some pretty incredible quotes. Like years after this, he wrote

2031
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:56,920
Speaker 1: at fifty two, I have to know whether or not

2032
01:49:57,040 --> 01:49:59,479
Speaker 1: the suit will hold. It's one of the curiosity things.

2033
01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:01,760
Speaker 1: We tested the suit a lot of ways, but never

2034
01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:05,200
Speaker 1: went against the Grizzly. And the suit that you're seeing

2035
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:07,639
Speaker 1: is like the first version of his suit, the Ursus

2036
01:50:07,760 --> 01:50:10,320
Speaker 1: Mark one. He eventually gets up to the Mark six

2037
01:50:10,479 --> 01:50:13,040
Speaker 1: and spends more than one hundred and fifty thousand dollars

2038
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 1: making various versions of these bear suits. Actually, sorry, I

2039
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:19,400
Speaker 1: think the one that we're looking at in the documentary

2040
01:50:19,479 --> 01:50:22,479
Speaker 1: is the Mark six, because he did eventually, after years

2041
01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 1: of this quest, get a documentary and interested, and the

2042
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:29,160
Speaker 1: film Project Grizzly was made about his quest. One fun

2043
01:50:29,880 --> 01:50:31,720
Speaker 1: piece of trivia about it is that it's one of

2044
01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino's favorite movies. That makes a lot of sense.

2045
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:36,840
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. It makes yeah, it

2046
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 1: makes total sense. Now, in order to give you just

2047
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:43,639
Speaker 1: one last piece of context about the personality, what kind

2048
01:50:43,720 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 1: of man is Troy her Tobes or was Troy her Tobes.

2049
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:49,759
Speaker 1: I am gonna play you a clip of an interview

2050
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:54,240
Speaker 1: with this man from the documentary. That's just perfect. He's

2051
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:57,360
Speaker 1: holding in this a gigantic booie knife in his hand,

2052
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:00,639
Speaker 1: and he has another booie knife strapped across his shoulder

2053
01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:02,760
Speaker 1: in such a way that it's on his shoulder but

2054
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,720
Speaker 1: pointed down. Yeah, which is the way a crazy man

2055
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 1: carries a book. He's also, it's worth noting, dressed as

2056
01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:14,920
Speaker 1: like a frontier settler, but wearing like a bread's Harry Baray.

2057
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:21,080
Speaker 1: I go into the bush. I don't use a gun, never,

2058
01:51:21,200 --> 01:51:23,760
Speaker 1: don't believe in guns. I swear by my knives. They

2059
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:27,599
Speaker 1: save your life a thousand times around. If a grizzlies

2060
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:29,160
Speaker 1: gonna come at you. And I'm not saying knives are

2061
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:30,920
Speaker 1: going to save you, that's not what I'm saying. What

2062
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:33,240
Speaker 1: I'm saying is you've got a gun, and that grizzlies

2063
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:34,960
Speaker 1: fifty feet one hundred feet away from you, you got

2064
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:36,840
Speaker 1: one shot. I don't give a shit who you are

2065
01:51:37,080 --> 01:51:39,639
Speaker 1: or how steady you are. You've got one shot, not grizzly.

2066
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:42,080
Speaker 1: And if he's still coming at you that gun, you

2067
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:43,880
Speaker 1: might as well use the barrel on him, or you

2068
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:46,000
Speaker 1: can use the stock. That's useless. But if you've got

2069
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:48,559
Speaker 1: some half decent knives, at least you got a fighting chance.

2070
01:51:48,760 --> 01:51:51,200
Speaker 1: With animals. But that's not the reason why when I

2071
01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:52,760
Speaker 1: go into the mountains, or I go into the bush,

2072
01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:54,400
Speaker 1: or any man goes into the bush, they don't carry

2073
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:56,240
Speaker 1: nives for the four legged animals. They carry knives for

2074
01:51:56,240 --> 01:51:58,880
Speaker 1: the two legged animals. Because nowadays it's a lot like

2075
01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:00,760
Speaker 1: the old days. You've got a lot of whackers up there,

2076
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:05,439
Speaker 1: and it's nivish. Want to close quarters. Yea, you do,

2077
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:10,040
Speaker 1: indeed have a lot of wackos up there, Troy. Um.

2078
01:52:12,200 --> 01:52:16,080
Speaker 1: So that's that's a brief introduction to Troy Hurdabes. Now,

2079
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:18,880
Speaker 1: the suit that you've seen in the Project Project Grizzly

2080
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 1: documentary weighed one hundred and fifty pounds and it was

2081
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 1: not in any way powered. As you see in the dock.

2082
01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 1: He can kind of barely shuffle with it. He is

2083
01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:29,519
Speaker 1: unable to move or even stand on uneven ground. He

2084
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:34,439
Speaker 1: falls over very easily. Um. Troy liked the documentary, felt

2085
01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 1: like it helped expose his work to a wider audience,

2086
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:39,520
Speaker 1: but he took issue with the fact that the documentary

2087
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 1: did not delve into what he described as the science

2088
01:52:42,280 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 1: behind it all. Adding being able to get hit by

2089
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:49,880
Speaker 1: the truck took years of development, now years years of

2090
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:53,479
Speaker 1: practice of getting hit by trucks. Yeah, it's you can't

2091
01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:55,880
Speaker 1: just jump into getting hit by a truck like that.

2092
01:52:56,960 --> 01:52:59,799
Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, a trainer who probably should

2093
01:52:59,880 --> 01:53:02,760
Speaker 1: not be allowed around animals let Troy get into a

2094
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:06,720
Speaker 1: cage with a Kodiak bear. Now, thankfully the bear was

2095
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:09,599
Speaker 1: too confused by Troy's armor to what to get near him,

2096
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:14,040
Speaker 1: which you might not. This is technically a wind for Troy.

2097
01:53:14,439 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 1: The armor did do its job, just scare them away. Yeah,

2098
01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, the bear just saw that was like, you

2099
01:53:21,400 --> 01:53:25,400
Speaker 1: know what this said? Wrong with this guy? It's clearly unwell.

2100
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:27,559
Speaker 1: I do not want to be around this person right now.

2101
01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:35,720
Speaker 1: Here's mental floss interviewing Troy. She was so terrified she

2102
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:39,000
Speaker 1: urinated her. To best recalls, I didn't look human enough.

2103
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:43,839
Speaker 1: Limited mobility and questionable usefulness combined to doom the Mark series.

2104
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 1: We would never use a suit like that, says Lana Siernello, PhD.

2105
01:53:48,200 --> 01:53:51,520
Speaker 1: A bare behavior expert, a solid knowledge of bare behaviors,

2106
01:53:51,560 --> 01:53:53,919
Speaker 1: the best thing one can use to avoid being attacked,

2107
01:53:54,160 --> 01:53:56,880
Speaker 1: which is rare, and this is this is common whenever

2108
01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:00,640
Speaker 1: they talk to actual bear experts and researchers, like do

2109
01:54:00,720 --> 01:54:03,120
Speaker 1: you want a suit of armor. They're like, no, that's

2110
01:54:03,160 --> 01:54:05,800
Speaker 1: not at all useful. It's very easy to not get

2111
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:09,160
Speaker 1: attacked by bears. Actually, and again, if you watch the

2112
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:12,639
Speaker 1: documentary Grizzly Man, and the man in the documentary Grizzly

2113
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: Man is a similar type of person to Troy Hertabes.

2114
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:19,519
Speaker 1: They are both people. I do believe Troy Hertabes might

2115
01:54:19,640 --> 01:54:21,760
Speaker 1: need a suit of bear armor because he seems like

2116
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:24,439
Speaker 1: the kind of person to push grizzly bears past their

2117
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:27,680
Speaker 1: limits of comfort. Very rarely will someone else wind up

2118
01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:31,880
Speaker 1: in that situation. Nonetheless, the armor brought Hertabes fame. He

2119
01:54:32,320 --> 01:54:34,240
Speaker 1: was all over the internet. I found out about him

2120
01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:36,800
Speaker 1: because one of my colleagues at Cracked wrote about him

2121
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:38,960
Speaker 1: in an article. But like, you would see this guy

2122
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:40,520
Speaker 1: all the time, I'm sure I ran. I think I

2123
01:54:40,520 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: also ran across him on something awful. Earlier. He would

2124
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:47,320
Speaker 1: regularly put out videos he had. He had an early

2125
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 1: kind of understanding for how to make yourself into a

2126
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:52,880
Speaker 1: brand on the internet in order to get funding, and

2127
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:55,520
Speaker 1: so he was very successful at raising money in order

2128
01:54:55,600 --> 01:54:58,320
Speaker 1: to like make new iterations of his armor. He was

2129
01:54:58,360 --> 01:55:01,680
Speaker 1: also recruited on several JAP and he's game shows, and

2130
01:55:01,800 --> 01:55:03,880
Speaker 1: he inspired a two thousand and three episode of The

2131
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:07,560
Speaker 1: Simpsons where Homer constructs a bear fighting suit. He even

2132
01:55:07,640 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 1: filmed an outie commercial. Of course, he always reinvested the

2133
01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:15,480
Speaker 1: proceeds directly into making more suits of bear armor. Now,

2134
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:18,600
Speaker 1: the good news is he eventually moved on from wanting

2135
01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:21,960
Speaker 1: to make armor that was specifically geared towards fighting bears,

2136
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:24,440
Speaker 1: but he never got over his desire for making a

2137
01:55:24,520 --> 01:55:27,680
Speaker 1: suit of elaborate body armor. So he pivoted, claiming that

2138
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:30,200
Speaker 1: now his brother was in the military, and so he

2139
01:55:30,280 --> 01:55:33,480
Speaker 1: wanted to make flexible body armor themed after the armor

2140
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:36,680
Speaker 1: in Halo to help keep soldiers and SWAT officers safe

2141
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:40,360
Speaker 1: during dangerous raids. Because next suit was called the Trojan,

2142
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:43,000
Speaker 1: and it featured a compass in the dick for reasons

2143
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:47,640
Speaker 1: that are deeply confusing. Wait, that's not even it's not

2144
01:55:47,720 --> 01:55:51,240
Speaker 1: even a useful spot, like put it on your watch

2145
01:55:52,480 --> 01:55:55,640
Speaker 1: him he is adamant that he had talked to Special

2146
01:55:55,720 --> 01:55:58,360
Speaker 1: Forces guys and they said, right in the dick is

2147
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:00,960
Speaker 1: where you want to compass it, like flip down, So

2148
01:56:01,120 --> 01:56:03,080
Speaker 1: it looks like he has a penis that's made out

2149
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:06,480
Speaker 1: of compass. Okay, that is kind of funny. I'm gonna

2150
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:08,400
Speaker 1: play you a clip of this armor, which I will

2151
01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:12,120
Speaker 1: say looks a lot more professional than the last suit,

2152
01:56:12,800 --> 01:56:17,440
Speaker 1: the first ballistic full exoskeleton body suit of armor. This

2153
01:56:17,600 --> 01:56:20,400
Speaker 1: came from twenty years of development through the bear suits

2154
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:25,360
Speaker 1: and about seventeen hundred and fifty hours of actual building time,

2155
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:28,400
Speaker 1: And it came from so many calls I got from

2156
01:56:28,480 --> 01:56:31,120
Speaker 1: friends of mine in Iraq and an Afghanistan. My brother

2157
01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 1: was in the military, talking about is there can you

2158
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:36,160
Speaker 1: not go in the direction that we need, which is

2159
01:56:36,280 --> 01:56:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, against the ieeds improvised explosive devices, and you know,

2160
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:43,880
Speaker 1: build it to the point where you've got the flexibility,

2161
01:56:44,120 --> 01:56:46,720
Speaker 1: the lightness, but with the strength of what the bear

2162
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:48,480
Speaker 1: suits were, And that's where that's where this came from.

2163
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna tell you right now that suit is

2164
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:56,840
Speaker 1: not going to help you against an IED. The gigantic

2165
01:56:56,920 --> 01:56:59,800
Speaker 1: heavy armor you see in the hurt Locker only kind

2166
01:56:59,840 --> 01:57:02,800
Speaker 1: of helps you if it's a pretty small IED. What

2167
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:05,320
Speaker 1: he's built is not going to protect you from like

2168
01:57:05,960 --> 01:57:09,280
Speaker 1: an explosively formed penetrator or like a five thousand pound

2169
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:12,760
Speaker 1: fertilizer five hundred pound fertilizer bomb or something like that.

2170
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 1: To test this, though, Troy hired a former military marksman,

2171
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:20,160
Speaker 1: the guy who he claimed had previously covered him out

2172
01:57:20,240 --> 01:57:23,040
Speaker 1: in the woods on bare expeditions with less lethal AMO,

2173
01:57:23,920 --> 01:57:26,000
Speaker 1: and he asked this man to shoot him point and

2174
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:32,080
Speaker 1: blank with a rifle. So thankfully, this guy was like Troy,

2175
01:57:32,160 --> 01:57:34,320
Speaker 1: it's illegal to point a loaded weapon at a person

2176
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:37,200
Speaker 1: in our province. I'm not going to shoot you directly

2177
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:40,120
Speaker 1: in the chest with a hunting rifle. So Troy had

2178
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:42,560
Speaker 1: him take the armor out of the suit and then

2179
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:45,480
Speaker 1: shoot at it, and the bullet went immediately through the armor.

2180
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:49,440
Speaker 1: It says a lot about Troy that his first instinct

2181
01:57:49,600 --> 01:57:52,520
Speaker 1: was not shoot the armor without a human being in it.

2182
01:57:52,920 --> 01:57:57,080
Speaker 1: But um, at least, yeah, at least the guy who

2183
01:57:57,200 --> 01:57:59,720
Speaker 1: was testing it did not shoot him directly in the

2184
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,280
Speaker 1: guest and kill him. I'm gonna quote again from Mental

2185
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:06,440
Speaker 1: Flaws here. Hertibes tweaked the Trojan, which he debuted in

2186
01:58:06,480 --> 01:58:09,320
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven to little notice. Eventually, he offered

2187
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 1: his design to the Canadian military for free, but it

2188
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:14,920
Speaker 1: can take years for armed forces to evaluate new technology,

2189
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:18,480
Speaker 1: and existing contracts with equipment vendors render it near impossible

2190
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:22,440
Speaker 1: for independent inventors without backing or references to succeed with

2191
01:58:22,600 --> 01:58:25,440
Speaker 1: industrial military contracts are sewn up and they don't want

2192
01:58:25,480 --> 01:58:28,720
Speaker 1: anyone stepping on toes. He says, engineers pick my brain,

2193
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:31,080
Speaker 1: but I can't be affiliated with them. I'm a loose

2194
01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:35,160
Speaker 1: cannon and my methodology is backward. I do not disagree

2195
01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 1: with that statement. He did, however, have several other inventions

2196
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:44,240
Speaker 1: over the years. For one thing, Troy invented a burn paste,

2197
01:58:44,440 --> 01:58:48,000
Speaker 1: a gooey substance that hardens when exposed to flame in

2198
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:52,400
Speaker 1: order to protect you. Canada's Discovery Channel documented him covered

2199
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:55,960
Speaker 1: in the burn pace, being exposed to temperatures above thirty

2200
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:59,000
Speaker 1: six hundred degrees fahrenheit. He held a blowtorch to his

2201
01:58:59,080 --> 01:59:04,400
Speaker 1: helmeted head for ten minutes and it worked. This leaves

2202
01:59:04,440 --> 01:59:06,840
Speaker 1: out a fun fact, which is that Troy was inspired

2203
01:59:06,880 --> 01:59:09,200
Speaker 1: to make his burn paste because one day, while wearing

2204
01:59:09,280 --> 01:59:13,040
Speaker 1: his suit, it overheated, burning most of his body very badly.

2205
01:59:14,200 --> 01:59:16,800
Speaker 1: So he needed to make the burn paste in order

2206
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 1: to protect himself. Yeah, it doesn't seem easy to get

2207
01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:23,760
Speaker 1: in and out of. Like, no, it would not be

2208
01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:26,240
Speaker 1: easy to dawn your If you look at the helmet

2209
01:59:26,280 --> 01:59:28,600
Speaker 1: there your peripheral version is going to be shit. It's

2210
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:31,120
Speaker 1: not going to be good for like fighting in and

2211
01:59:31,240 --> 01:59:33,520
Speaker 1: it is going to exhaust you. Like he builds an

2212
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:36,360
Speaker 1: air conditioner for it, but that's only gonna do so

2213
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:40,520
Speaker 1: much like body armor is always kind of like a

2214
01:59:42,360 --> 01:59:46,360
Speaker 1: trade off between mobility and protection, and something like a

2215
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:49,840
Speaker 1: plate carrier is worth it. But full body armor that's

2216
01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:52,120
Speaker 1: not powered in a meaningful way just is not going

2217
01:59:52,160 --> 01:59:54,360
Speaker 1: to be practical yet. This is why I do not

2218
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:58,800
Speaker 1: respect the Mandalorians. No, no, you you've been vocal about

2219
01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:02,880
Speaker 1: that for years have I'm gonna play you a video

2220
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:06,240
Speaker 1: of him testing this fire paste from that Canadian Discovery

2221
02:00:06,320 --> 02:00:11,440
Speaker 1: Channel documentary because it's very funny. Troy envisions neighborhoods in

2222
02:00:11,480 --> 02:00:13,880
Speaker 1: the path of a forest fire being sprayed with a

2223
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:17,440
Speaker 1: thin layer of fire paste, effectively starving out the fire.

2224
02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:21,200
Speaker 1: And according to Troy, clean up is a breeze due

2225
02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:28,200
Speaker 1: to firepace only weakness water. Just see it turns back

2226
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:32,240
Speaker 1: into a paste. See, I'm already into a layer. It's

2227
02:00:32,280 --> 02:00:35,200
Speaker 1: just past now, which is firepiece. This is its natural state.

2228
02:00:35,480 --> 02:00:37,720
Speaker 1: And when it dries, see I'm already slopping it off.

2229
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:40,200
Speaker 1: Now there's is there It turns to the peace. This

2230
02:00:40,240 --> 02:00:42,000
Speaker 1: is what's gonna happen on your host Now it's a

2231
02:00:43,360 --> 02:00:48,160
Speaker 1: he's chewing it up, and oh that's so cross. He's

2232
02:00:48,160 --> 02:00:50,840
Speaker 1: just spitting it all over his house. The dog comes along,

2233
02:00:51,080 --> 02:00:53,400
Speaker 1: takes a little in his mouth, washes it around, and

2234
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:57,640
Speaker 1: spits it out. Nothing's gonna happen. It's biden ridable, non topsic.

2235
02:00:58,240 --> 02:01:00,960
Speaker 1: Don't have to worry one anything happening. So how would

2236
02:01:00,960 --> 02:01:04,080
Speaker 1: a homeowner remove the firepace from the outside of their home?

2237
02:01:04,480 --> 02:01:08,160
Speaker 1: This is gonna be bob fuse next door. Bob's house

2238
02:01:08,280 --> 02:01:10,320
Speaker 1: is gonna be fine. The next day, he's gonna come

2239
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:12,440
Speaker 1: up with his garden, the holes in a cannabier, and

2240
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:15,240
Speaker 1: in two hours he'll be ready for the football game.

2241
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 1: Oh what there goes to the house. After ten minutes,

2242
02:01:18,760 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 1: Troy inspects the firepaced house. Look at look at this.

2243
02:01:21,920 --> 02:01:26,360
Speaker 1: At this there's a little Barbie. She's all kay. Barbie's

2244
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:35,000
Speaker 1: fire same Barbie's sister. The Barbie is clearly sin. Now.

2245
02:01:35,320 --> 02:01:37,400
Speaker 1: He does note again that the only weakness of the

2246
02:01:37,440 --> 02:01:40,240
Speaker 1: fire paste is water. This might reduce its efficacy, but

2247
02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:42,720
Speaker 1: I think he envisions it being dumped on neighborhoods in

2248
02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:45,880
Speaker 1: the path of a fire. They decided not to do this. Now,

2249
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 1: why why does he keep getting platforms? Like, why why

2250
02:01:49,680 --> 02:01:53,160
Speaker 1: does he continue? He was because because this was really

2251
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:55,840
Speaker 1: funny to everyone on the Internet. So a documentary that

2252
02:01:55,960 --> 02:01:58,600
Speaker 1: came out would get shared all over. People would watch it.

2253
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:01,760
Speaker 1: It would get him attention, he would get donations. There

2254
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:04,120
Speaker 1: was like one point where he had to he had

2255
02:02:04,160 --> 02:02:07,440
Speaker 1: to sell his body armor. He had to like sell

2256
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:09,520
Speaker 1: it to a pawn shop because he was broke, and

2257
02:02:10,040 --> 02:02:12,280
Speaker 1: a fan bought it back from the pawn shop and

2258
02:02:12,360 --> 02:02:17,440
Speaker 1: gave it to him so he could continue. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah,

2259
02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:19,400
Speaker 1: he had a fan base. Like I said, he was

2260
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:23,080
Speaker 1: a hero of the old Internet. He did eventually succeed

2261
02:02:23,160 --> 02:02:25,600
Speaker 1: in making an armor suit that was resistant to twelve

2262
02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:28,959
Speaker 1: gage shotgun shells, which he acts like is very impressive.

2263
02:02:29,520 --> 02:02:33,120
Speaker 1: Shotgun shells are not good at penetrating armor. Most soft

2264
02:02:33,240 --> 02:02:36,200
Speaker 1: body armor vests will stop a shot shell from penetrating it.

2265
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:40,000
Speaker 1: Shotguns are not for penetrating armor. There for damaging meat.

2266
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:43,000
Speaker 1: But Troy made a big deal about how this would

2267
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:46,520
Speaker 1: save the lives of soldiers in war. His next invention,

2268
02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:49,760
Speaker 1: as he was continuing to iterate his body armor, was

2269
02:02:49,880 --> 02:02:53,600
Speaker 1: something called the Godlight device. Now, Troy never gave much

2270
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:56,280
Speaker 1: detail on what the Godlight was, but he says it

2271
02:02:56,440 --> 02:02:59,480
Speaker 1: shrunk tumors and mice as well as his sister's tumor,

2272
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:01,800
Speaker 1: and he would tell interviewers he was pretty sure it

2273
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:06,919
Speaker 1: could cure Parkinson's disease. Light is extremely effective against certain cancers.

2274
02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:10,120
Speaker 1: All I did was take all spectrums of light electromagnetic

2275
02:03:10,200 --> 02:03:13,240
Speaker 1: radiation and put them together, and it works. I don't

2276
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:19,240
Speaker 1: know why, but I think that's how you get cancer.

2277
02:03:19,360 --> 02:03:23,920
Speaker 1: But okay, funny you mentioned that. So obviously his claims

2278
02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:27,040
Speaker 1: about the Godlight were never validated by any outside force,

2279
02:03:27,280 --> 02:03:31,200
Speaker 1: in part because shining whatever the fuck he's invented on

2280
02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:34,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of sick people has ethical considerations to it.

2281
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:38,520
Speaker 1: But Troy turned the light on himself and experienced what

2282
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:41,919
Speaker 1: he calls the hide effect. I think, as in doctor Jackline,

2283
02:03:41,960 --> 02:03:44,640
Speaker 1: mister Hyde, his hair fell out and he lost twenty

2284
02:03:44,760 --> 02:03:53,640
Speaker 1: pounds curious a mystery. Then he claims the Godlight mysteriously

2285
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:56,200
Speaker 1: stopped working and he didn't have the money to fix

2286
02:03:56,320 --> 02:04:04,480
Speaker 1: it up. There are amazing I love this man. It's

2287
02:04:04,920 --> 02:04:08,280
Speaker 1: it is. It is fascinating that the closer society comes

2288
02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:10,800
Speaker 1: to this complete collapse. We get more of these little

2289
02:04:10,840 --> 02:04:13,840
Speaker 1: weirdos who are like trying to figure out how to

2290
02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:21,240
Speaker 1: survive the apocalypse and exactly the wrong way. Yes, um,

2291
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to read another quote from that mental phloss article. Today.

2292
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:29,520
Speaker 1: Hertabes operates a scrapyard in Ontario and dismisses notions of patents.

2293
02:04:29,760 --> 02:04:32,440
Speaker 1: The stuff is too easy to duplicate and it costs

2294
02:04:32,520 --> 02:04:36,080
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars to file an application. He rejects offers

2295
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:39,280
Speaker 1: to outright sell his creations like Firepaste, because he frequently

2296
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:41,840
Speaker 1: sells off shares to fund their development. By the time

2297
02:04:41,880 --> 02:04:44,240
Speaker 1: I got Firepace to the point of testing, seventy percent

2298
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:46,560
Speaker 1: of it was owned by investors, So when a university

2299
02:04:46,640 --> 02:04:48,960
Speaker 1: wants it, I only have thirty percent left. They're not

2300
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:52,440
Speaker 1: interested in that. And yet Hernabes can't stop inventing. He

2301
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:54,720
Speaker 1: still feels compelled to put in twenty one hour days

2302
02:04:54,760 --> 02:04:57,800
Speaker 1: refining his projects. His current plan is to find funding

2303
02:04:57,840 --> 02:05:00,520
Speaker 1: for the Apache, the latest version of his t Oan suit,

2304
02:05:00,720 --> 02:05:03,040
Speaker 1: which he says protects ninety three percent of a user's

2305
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:06,640
Speaker 1: body and offers ninety six percent flexibility. A prototype will

2306
02:05:06,640 --> 02:05:09,600
Speaker 1: cost seventy thousand dollars. It'll take six to eight months

2307
02:05:09,640 --> 02:05:11,280
Speaker 1: to build by hand. I'll try to market it to

2308
02:05:11,400 --> 02:05:14,280
Speaker 1: law enforcement like SWAT. He needs another one hundred thousand

2309
02:05:14,280 --> 02:05:17,720
Speaker 1: dollars to rebuild the Godlight, renamed the EMR five, which

2310
02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:20,280
Speaker 1: he now claims will only cure breast cancer. He wants

2311
02:05:20,280 --> 02:05:24,840
Speaker 1: to take it to John's Optics for testing. So well,

2312
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm excited for SWAT teams to be using his inventions. Yes, yes,

2313
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:31,800
Speaker 1: I do support that. Thanks to that dit compass, they'll

2314
02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:34,560
Speaker 1: never get lost at the wrong house again. Could really

2315
02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:39,080
Speaker 1: save a lot of lives. That's the problem SWAT teams

2316
02:05:39,120 --> 02:05:41,920
Speaker 1: have is poor land nav I think so. I think

2317
02:05:41,960 --> 02:05:44,320
Speaker 1: the SWAT team should wear that. Every SWAT team member

2318
02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 1: should be forced to wear that barrasuit for everything they do. Yes,

2319
02:05:48,040 --> 02:05:53,880
Speaker 1: the only thing SWAT could get due So tragically, Troy

2320
02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:58,240
Speaker 1: died in like twenty twelve, I think in a fiery collision. Yeah,

2321
02:05:58,520 --> 02:06:02,640
Speaker 1: he drove right into a fuel tanker. Oh yeah, it's

2322
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:05,920
Speaker 1: very sad. He was fifty four years old old. His

2323
02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:09,640
Speaker 1: widow says that he swerved his car or the police

2324
02:06:09,680 --> 02:06:11,440
Speaker 1: say that he swerved his car into the pathway of

2325
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:14,680
Speaker 1: the truck. He had been very depressed because he'd encountered

2326
02:06:14,720 --> 02:06:19,320
Speaker 1: financial difficulties and had not been able to sell his inventions. Um,

2327
02:06:19,480 --> 02:06:22,320
Speaker 1: obviously this is very sad for them. He seems like,

2328
02:06:23,080 --> 02:06:25,480
Speaker 1: despite everything, he was a fun guy to be around

2329
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:29,040
Speaker 1: and then yeah, fell on hard times. Um it is.

2330
02:06:29,200 --> 02:06:32,200
Speaker 1: It is a depressing end to the story. But Troy

2331
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:36,600
Speaker 1: lives on in the documentary project Grizzly, and in the

2332
02:06:36,680 --> 02:06:38,600
Speaker 1: impact he had on all of our hearts, and in

2333
02:06:38,680 --> 02:06:41,880
Speaker 1: the memory that you know, even if your dreams are

2334
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:44,480
Speaker 1: are crazy, you should you should try and live them

2335
02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:47,680
Speaker 1: because who knows, Maybe maybe you'll develop a suit that

2336
02:06:47,760 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 1: allows you to fight a Grizzly bar in hand to

2337
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:55,080
Speaker 1: hand combat. Anyway. That's that's this Hero of the Internet episode.

2338
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:58,600
Speaker 1: I hope you all found it edifying. That is that

2339
02:06:58,840 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 1: is an inspiring, inspiring ringtail Yeah, um, it's it's it's

2340
02:07:04,360 --> 02:07:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, he's fucking more of an inventor than Elon

2341
02:07:07,920 --> 02:07:11,280
Speaker 1: Musk has been, and he would have been a better

2342
02:07:11,440 --> 02:07:15,760
Speaker 1: ruler of Twitter if that's true, was in charge of Twitter.

2343
02:07:16,440 --> 02:07:19,120
Speaker 1: He's he's really the last guy from the old error

2344
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:21,720
Speaker 1: of capitalism where you would actually like return your profits

2345
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:24,280
Speaker 1: into into R and D instead of just like paying

2346
02:07:24,360 --> 02:07:26,960
Speaker 1: Elon Musk like forty seven million dollars to hire a

2347
02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:30,160
Speaker 1: bunch of consultants who also make forty million dollars. Yeah.

2348
02:07:30,280 --> 02:07:32,400
Speaker 1: One thing you have to say about Troy is he

2349
02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:34,440
Speaker 1: was not He was not in this for the money.

2350
02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:37,560
Speaker 1: This was a man who believed more strongly than I

2351
02:07:37,640 --> 02:07:40,400
Speaker 1: think I've ever believed in anything about the idea of

2352
02:07:40,520 --> 02:07:43,640
Speaker 1: building a suit of armor to fight grisly bears, um

2353
02:07:43,880 --> 02:07:47,360
Speaker 1: and whatever else you can say about Troy, he was absolutely,

2354
02:07:47,560 --> 02:07:50,160
Speaker 1: absolutely honest in that belief. And I think I'm going

2355
02:07:50,200 --> 02:07:53,680
Speaker 1: to end by playing a brief montage of him testing

2356
02:07:53,880 --> 02:07:57,600
Speaker 1: out his first version of the armored suit, which looks

2357
02:07:57,720 --> 02:08:00,480
Speaker 1: more or less like a set of heavy base ball armor.

2358
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:02,840
Speaker 1: Like it looks like someone wearing body armor and a

2359
02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:05,800
Speaker 1: baseball helmet or a sorry, a football helmet. In fact,

2360
02:08:05,840 --> 02:08:07,960
Speaker 1: I think it just is a football helmet. But yeah,

2361
02:08:08,280 --> 02:08:12,000
Speaker 1: here's here's Troy's early tests in nineteen eighty eight. That's

2362
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:17,080
Speaker 1: definitely a ball helmet. That one looks kind of cool.

2363
02:08:18,560 --> 02:08:21,240
Speaker 1: That one looks pretty cool too. Yeah, they look increasingly

2364
02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:24,040
Speaker 1: space Marini in this period, and he has some range

2365
02:08:24,080 --> 02:08:37,560
Speaker 1: of motion, doesn't even have his helmet on, just knocking

2366
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:42,120
Speaker 1: him down with what looked like to buy force. It

2367
02:08:42,280 --> 02:08:45,520
Speaker 1: doesn't it does look more. Oh my gosh, he just

2368
02:08:48,640 --> 02:08:53,080
Speaker 1: he keeps getting he walks right in the face. Yeah,

2369
02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:57,200
Speaker 1: it's it's just amazing. That last one looks super Space

2370
02:08:57,280 --> 02:09:00,880
Speaker 1: Marine es. Yeah. Yeah, some of them looked pretty cool. Um,

2371
02:09:01,160 --> 02:09:04,240
Speaker 1: And he didn't die from anything related to the suit testing,

2372
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:06,320
Speaker 1: So you got to give him one thing. He knew

2373
02:09:06,320 --> 02:09:07,960
Speaker 1: how to make a suit of armor that would not

2374
02:09:08,120 --> 02:09:10,720
Speaker 1: get you killed doing the kind of shit Troy Hertabes

2375
02:09:10,800 --> 02:09:13,800
Speaker 1: like to do. It seems like he was good with

2376
02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:18,200
Speaker 1: like with like blunt force trauma armor. Did anyone ever

2377
02:09:18,280 --> 02:09:22,120
Speaker 1: do like a CTE skit like test on him every

2378
02:09:22,200 --> 02:09:28,400
Speaker 1: dime because this man had a thousand micro head injuries. Absolutely.

2379
02:09:28,920 --> 02:09:31,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the real lesson here is that

2380
02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:33,320
Speaker 1: he was able. He was he was able to continue

2381
02:09:33,400 --> 02:09:39,320
Speaker 1: his work thanks to Canadian healthcare. Um, he was probably

2382
02:09:39,400 --> 02:09:43,000
Speaker 1: like five percent of the entire Canadian healthcare system budget

2383
02:09:43,480 --> 02:09:49,600
Speaker 1: just dealing with all of Troy's concussions. Yeah. Anyway, that's

2384
02:09:49,640 --> 02:09:52,560
Speaker 1: the story of Troy Hertabies. I hope you've all found

2385
02:09:52,600 --> 02:09:56,640
Speaker 1: it useful. Um, go into the world and if your

2386
02:09:56,680 --> 02:09:58,920
Speaker 1: dream is to create a suit of powered armor that

2387
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:02,480
Speaker 1: will allow you to defeat a grizzly bear in unarmed combat. Then,

2388
02:10:02,560 --> 02:10:21,600
Speaker 1: by god, you know, shoot for the stars in a

2389
02:10:21,760 --> 02:10:25,040
Speaker 1: world where you end up standing in a two hour

2390
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:31,120
Speaker 1: line to buy mediocre and not climate friendly water. Sorry,

2391
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:34,400
Speaker 1: this is it could happen here. Uh, this is Sophie.

2392
02:10:34,480 --> 02:10:36,400
Speaker 1: I really wanted to do that for a really long time.

2393
02:10:38,320 --> 02:10:42,360
Speaker 1: Well now I want to watch it. Thank you. Those

2394
02:10:42,400 --> 02:10:44,800
Speaker 1: voices you hear are James Stout and Margaret Killjoy and

2395
02:10:45,120 --> 02:10:47,760
Speaker 1: we're here. We're here to talk about the water crisis

2396
02:10:47,840 --> 02:10:54,800
Speaker 1: that seems to be getting worse and uh, these United States. Yeah, James,

2397
02:10:54,880 --> 02:10:58,200
Speaker 1: what's what's it? What's it? What's what's happening? Well? Uh,

2398
02:10:58,280 --> 02:11:00,800
Speaker 1: and ever things are happening, right. I think should probably

2399
02:11:00,800 --> 02:11:04,800
Speaker 1: emphasize at the start that water contaminants have been affecting

2400
02:11:04,880 --> 02:11:07,520
Speaker 1: people outside of like the kind of colonial core for

2401
02:11:07,600 --> 02:11:12,480
Speaker 1: a very long time, and legacy corporate media, whatever you

2402
02:11:12,480 --> 02:11:14,640
Speaker 1: want to call it, hasn't given it a solitary fuck

2403
02:11:14,680 --> 02:11:18,080
Speaker 1: about it until it affected people inside the colonial core.

2404
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:22,200
Speaker 1: So what we're seeing right now is in two places

2405
02:11:22,680 --> 02:11:27,880
Speaker 1: East I believe it's pronounced Palestine, right, I believe so too, Yeah, yeah, okay,

2406
02:11:27,920 --> 02:11:34,040
Speaker 1: East Palestine, Ohio, And in Philadelphia. I believe it's pronounced

2407
02:11:34,840 --> 02:11:39,600
Speaker 1: phil A Delphia. Okay, they did like someone's name, like Phil.

2408
02:11:39,680 --> 02:11:42,280
Speaker 1: It was named for Phil a Delphia. The founder of

2409
02:11:42,320 --> 02:11:46,520
Speaker 1: the city, phil from Delphia, like the oracle. I see ye,

2410
02:11:47,040 --> 02:11:50,800
Speaker 1: he predicted that one day there would be a spill

2411
02:11:51,520 --> 02:11:54,320
Speaker 1: from a POC chemical plant near the Delaware River, and

2412
02:11:54,840 --> 02:11:59,120
Speaker 1: famously he was right. We've they built a city there anyway. Yeah, yeah,

2413
02:11:59,200 --> 02:12:01,960
Speaker 1: and they for years they've been so angry about not

2414
02:12:02,080 --> 02:12:04,920
Speaker 1: having a chemical plant. They've just climb lamppost and thrown

2415
02:12:05,000 --> 02:12:07,960
Speaker 1: batteries at a boating football teams. Yeah. And I feel

2416
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:12,120
Speaker 1: really good about starting with such heavy jokes about this thing. Yeah. Yeah,

2417
02:12:12,560 --> 02:12:15,440
Speaker 1: it's three million people, I think anyway. Yeah, if you're

2418
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:18,920
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, we don't want to express solidarity with you,

2419
02:12:19,040 --> 02:12:22,320
Speaker 1: I guess as you wonder what the fuck to do

2420
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:27,640
Speaker 1: about your water supply, which is currently contaminated, as we understand,

2421
02:12:27,680 --> 02:12:33,040
Speaker 1: by something called beautiful acrelate, which is a chemical that

2422
02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:37,920
Speaker 1: is found in paint. And the reason that there was

2423
02:12:37,920 --> 02:12:39,800
Speaker 1: a paint chemical in your drinking water if you live

2424
02:12:39,840 --> 02:12:44,200
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, is that a PLC manufacturing chemical plant called

2425
02:12:44,720 --> 02:12:48,800
Speaker 1: I think it's trinso tr I n SEO had a leak,

2426
02:12:48,960 --> 02:12:51,400
Speaker 1: and that leak, when it's a storm drain, that storm

2427
02:12:51,520 --> 02:12:54,839
Speaker 1: drain went into the Delaware River, and that river feeds

2428
02:12:54,920 --> 02:12:58,880
Speaker 1: into the Samuel s backs to water treatment plant, and

2429
02:12:58,960 --> 02:13:01,200
Speaker 1: obviously that water treatment aren't feeds into the tap that

2430
02:13:01,360 --> 02:13:02,960
Speaker 1: you turn on to drink water when you live in

2431
02:13:03,040 --> 02:13:07,760
Speaker 1: your house. And this has, as it always does, when

2432
02:13:07,840 --> 02:13:13,520
Speaker 1: there are like these somewhat bungled announcements of chemical contamination

2433
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:16,800
Speaker 1: in drinking water cause people to rush out to buy

2434
02:13:17,360 --> 02:13:19,960
Speaker 1: bottled water, which is an understandable response if you think

2435
02:13:19,960 --> 02:13:21,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to drink water, which

2436
02:13:21,560 --> 02:13:24,440
Speaker 1: is caused people to wait in long lines to access

2437
02:13:24,960 --> 02:13:28,040
Speaker 1: sometimes like a limited supply of water. And what we

2438
02:13:28,120 --> 02:13:30,040
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about today a little bit was not

2439
02:13:30,200 --> 02:13:33,440
Speaker 1: so much like what to do if you're in Philadelphia

2440
02:13:33,560 --> 02:13:37,440
Speaker 1: right now, but how we can better prepare to be

2441
02:13:38,440 --> 02:13:43,360
Speaker 1: ready for water emergencies, water shortage, is water contamination, things

2442
02:13:43,400 --> 02:13:45,720
Speaker 1: like that, which is why Margaret has joined us because

2443
02:13:45,760 --> 02:13:51,280
Speaker 1: she is the prepper anarchist queen and knows a lot

2444
02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:54,520
Speaker 1: about these things. So yeah, Margaret, should we I think

2445
02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:55,920
Speaker 1: you said you wanted to break us down by like

2446
02:13:56,000 --> 02:13:57,840
Speaker 1: bad things. It could be in your water and things

2447
02:13:57,880 --> 02:14:00,720
Speaker 1: you can do to get those bad things away, right, Yeah,

2448
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:04,160
Speaker 1: although I will say only a minority of this information

2449
02:14:04,520 --> 02:14:07,920
Speaker 1: directly relates to people who are dealing with toxic chemical spills.

2450
02:14:08,360 --> 02:14:11,480
Speaker 1: So if we're I have a lot of information about

2451
02:14:11,560 --> 02:14:14,920
Speaker 1: general water safety, it's long term storage of water, things

2452
02:14:14,960 --> 02:14:16,920
Speaker 1: that you don't want in your water, how to get

2453
02:14:16,960 --> 02:14:18,920
Speaker 1: those things out of your water, And I know you

2454
02:14:19,040 --> 02:14:22,280
Speaker 1: have a lot of experience with that stuff too. But

2455
02:14:22,840 --> 02:14:26,400
Speaker 1: the very specific thing that people first in Ohio and

2456
02:14:26,520 --> 02:14:31,440
Speaker 1: now in Pennsylvania are dealing with u of chemical stuff

2457
02:14:32,440 --> 02:14:35,560
Speaker 1: is worse than other stuff and way harder to get out,

2458
02:14:35,720 --> 02:14:39,840
Speaker 1: especially on a DIY level. So I don't know what

2459
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:42,160
Speaker 1: what feels best like, should we do an overview or

2460
02:14:42,200 --> 02:14:44,120
Speaker 1: should we try and first talk about the chemical stuff

2461
02:14:44,120 --> 02:14:46,000
Speaker 1: and then talk about like the fun easy stuff like

2462
02:14:46,040 --> 02:14:49,160
Speaker 1: not getting giardio when you're camping. Yeah, let's maybe start

2463
02:14:49,200 --> 02:14:53,160
Speaker 1: out with the kind of this is the scary you know,

2464
02:14:53,360 --> 02:14:58,280
Speaker 1: you can't buy a lifestrole for this fear first, fun later. Yeah,

2465
02:14:59,160 --> 02:15:00,840
Speaker 1: people might be listening, I mean it might be afraid

2466
02:15:00,880 --> 02:15:02,160
Speaker 1: of They might be concerned that they might be in

2467
02:15:02,440 --> 02:15:05,240
Speaker 1: one of these places. Right, Flint, Michigan. What we still

2468
02:15:05,240 --> 02:15:08,280
Speaker 1: haven't fucking fixed the water. Yeah, and so yeah, let's

2469
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:13,520
Speaker 1: start fucking Flint, Michigan. What a just disastrous incompetence. Yeah,

2470
02:15:13,680 --> 02:15:17,760
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, it's it's extremely sad that the country

2471
02:15:17,840 --> 02:15:19,760
Speaker 1: that is as rich as any country has ever managed

2472
02:15:19,800 --> 02:15:24,120
Speaker 1: to be in human history is still poisoning people with water.

2473
02:15:24,320 --> 02:15:26,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's start with that. Let's let's start with

2474
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:29,600
Speaker 1: what to do when you get a reverse nine or

2475
02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:31,480
Speaker 1: one phone call telling you know, to drink from your tap.

2476
02:15:32,440 --> 02:15:35,560
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, going out and getting bottled water was

2477
02:15:35,720 --> 02:15:39,880
Speaker 1: the right move. Or also, since people did have a

2478
02:15:39,920 --> 02:15:41,640
Speaker 1: heads up that their tap water was safe for a

2479
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 1: period of time, storing water in various containers is the

2480
02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:50,400
Speaker 1: right move, because once your water is contaminated with chemicals,

2481
02:15:51,600 --> 02:15:55,720
Speaker 1: it's really hard to get it out. The main method

2482
02:15:56,320 --> 02:16:00,280
Speaker 1: that well on an industrial scale, the thing that someone

2483
02:16:00,360 --> 02:16:05,320
Speaker 1: can use the way they treat wastewater with beautifle as late.

2484
02:16:06,200 --> 02:16:09,560
Speaker 1: I didn't write down the name in my notes. Acrelate,

2485
02:16:10,200 --> 02:16:13,040
Speaker 1: Oh like acrylic, that makes sense, slate text paint. It's

2486
02:16:13,080 --> 02:16:16,480
Speaker 1: something called a fluidized bed reactor, which frankly I did

2487
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:19,080
Speaker 1: not know about until I started doing this specific research

2488
02:16:19,120 --> 02:16:22,680
Speaker 1: for this specific chemical People who are like more at

2489
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:24,560
Speaker 1: a high science level will know more about this. This

2490
02:16:24,720 --> 02:16:30,480
Speaker 1: is basically like you're using different bacteria to eat and

2491
02:16:31,600 --> 02:16:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, fucking clean out this shit. This is

2492
02:16:34,200 --> 02:16:36,800
Speaker 1: not what's going to be happening in your kitchen sink

2493
02:16:36,840 --> 02:16:38,440
Speaker 1: anytime soon. This is not going to be a part

2494
02:16:38,480 --> 02:16:42,440
Speaker 1: of your bread of filter anytime soon, ironically, And this

2495
02:16:42,640 --> 02:16:46,760
Speaker 1: is not how am I going to say this. Don't

2496
02:16:46,840 --> 02:16:49,920
Speaker 1: drink this chemical water if you have any possibility, right,

2497
02:16:50,240 --> 02:16:53,160
Speaker 1: if you can get other water, do that. And I

2498
02:16:53,240 --> 02:16:55,360
Speaker 1: believe in our current society it is a better and

2499
02:16:55,480 --> 02:16:58,160
Speaker 1: safer bet to get water from elsewhere. If you were

2500
02:16:58,320 --> 02:17:00,720
Speaker 1: in some situation, which I suspect most people are not.

2501
02:17:00,959 --> 02:17:04,160
Speaker 1: I suspect most people could access supply lines. If you're

2502
02:17:04,200 --> 02:17:06,440
Speaker 1: in some situation where the only water available to you

2503
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:11,360
Speaker 1: has this these types of chemicals in it, the most

2504
02:17:11,520 --> 02:17:15,040
Speaker 1: likely guess about a way to deal with it is

2505
02:17:15,120 --> 02:17:21,400
Speaker 1: activated carbon charcoal and is actually the home filters that

2506
02:17:21,400 --> 02:17:23,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people use. Is your Britta filter, is

2507
02:17:23,879 --> 02:17:26,280
Speaker 1: your burkey, although I'll talk some shit on burkey in

2508
02:17:26,320 --> 02:17:30,880
Speaker 1: a little bit, and and when we go over the

2509
02:17:30,959 --> 02:17:33,920
Speaker 1: more like nitty greedy details about each filtration method. Maybe

2510
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:36,200
Speaker 1: we can we can talk more about this, but basically

2511
02:17:36,280 --> 02:17:39,880
Speaker 1: it is like it is not tested to do this.

2512
02:17:40,160 --> 02:17:41,920
Speaker 1: No one has ever been like, man, what if we

2513
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:45,080
Speaker 1: get a bunch of budle accrelate in our water, will

2514
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:48,160
Speaker 1: our britta filter it out? No one is running tests

2515
02:17:48,240 --> 02:17:51,920
Speaker 1: on this because it is not a thing that normally

2516
02:17:52,040 --> 02:17:54,920
Speaker 1: is in the water historically, although clearly it is often

2517
02:17:55,000 --> 02:18:01,320
Speaker 1: in the water now. However, the method of filtration of

2518
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:04,880
Speaker 1: the various home level acts various home level methods of

2519
02:18:04,959 --> 02:18:08,840
Speaker 1: filtration adsorption is what it's called with a D instead

2520
02:18:08,879 --> 02:18:12,000
Speaker 1: of a B, is the method that is perceived as

2521
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:15,520
Speaker 1: most effective at reducing chemicals in water. However, again we're

2522
02:18:15,520 --> 02:18:20,600
Speaker 1: talking about like maybe this reduces some chemicals, maybe not.

2523
02:18:21,600 --> 02:18:26,000
Speaker 1: Oh you run this through this and now you're fine. Yeah. Yeah,

2524
02:18:26,200 --> 02:18:28,480
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot of things that could get no

2525
02:18:28,600 --> 02:18:30,680
Speaker 1: water right that we don't really have like any any

2526
02:18:30,760 --> 02:18:32,880
Speaker 1: like decent research on how to get them out of

2527
02:18:32,959 --> 02:18:38,840
Speaker 1: a Yeah. So, Margaret James, is there is there a say,

2528
02:18:39,040 --> 02:18:40,720
Speaker 1: say you're not living in a place where you get

2529
02:18:40,760 --> 02:18:43,240
Speaker 1: a text letting you know that in Tuesday at three

2530
02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:45,960
Speaker 1: pm your water will not be safe to drink, which

2531
02:18:46,120 --> 02:18:52,920
Speaker 1: is really just is there a home testing kit or

2532
02:18:53,200 --> 02:18:57,360
Speaker 1: a water testing kit that that is accessible for for

2533
02:18:57,480 --> 02:19:04,160
Speaker 1: most individuals, or what resources can people use to understand

2534
02:19:04,240 --> 02:19:06,800
Speaker 1: their water at home? Could you want to I'm not

2535
02:19:06,879 --> 02:19:11,199
Speaker 1: really going to trust the government on that, right, Yeah,

2536
02:19:12,320 --> 02:19:16,280
Speaker 1: And Margaret, do you want to take that I only

2537
02:19:16,440 --> 02:19:20,040
Speaker 1: know about I do not know about testing for beautiless accrelate.

2538
02:19:21,320 --> 02:19:23,200
Speaker 1: I think that this is the kind of thing that

2539
02:19:23,840 --> 02:19:26,959
Speaker 1: they are not people are not prepared for, like at

2540
02:19:26,959 --> 02:19:29,600
Speaker 1: a society level, I don't know. I believe I could

2541
02:19:29,680 --> 02:19:31,920
Speaker 1: be wrong. All of the water testing that I have

2542
02:19:32,080 --> 02:19:34,880
Speaker 1: done has tended to be around like I live on

2543
02:19:34,959 --> 02:19:37,760
Speaker 1: a well, right, and so there's a lot of testing

2544
02:19:37,840 --> 02:19:40,200
Speaker 1: things that are available to tell you the acidity of

2545
02:19:40,240 --> 02:19:42,240
Speaker 1: your water, the hardness of your water, which is how

2546
02:19:42,480 --> 02:19:46,000
Speaker 1: how many dissolved minerals, whether or not your water contains

2547
02:19:46,040 --> 02:19:49,879
Speaker 1: things like lead and arsnic heavy metals which we'll talk

2548
02:19:49,920 --> 02:19:54,320
Speaker 1: about in a little bit, and also bacteria, right like

2549
02:19:54,680 --> 02:19:57,320
Speaker 1: all of the stuff that we normally prepare to filter

2550
02:19:57,440 --> 02:20:01,000
Speaker 1: out of water. There are home tests available to you

2551
02:20:01,480 --> 02:20:04,800
Speaker 1: that you can use to determine. UM. I don't know,

2552
02:20:04,879 --> 02:20:06,600
Speaker 1: and I wish I had done more research ahead of time.

2553
02:20:06,640 --> 02:20:09,279
Speaker 1: There's like some talk about like possible smells and stuff,

2554
02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:14,320
Speaker 1: um for some of these, but I don't feel confident. Yeah,

2555
02:20:14,360 --> 02:20:17,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there's the ewg's like website where

2556
02:20:17,760 --> 02:20:19,800
Speaker 1: you can put in your your your zip code and

2557
02:20:19,920 --> 02:20:22,879
Speaker 1: get more information on if there's been contamination or anything

2558
02:20:22,959 --> 02:20:26,400
Speaker 1: like that, but like that's you know, reported things, not

2559
02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:30,120
Speaker 1: necessarily on an individual level for testing. Um. Yeah, I'd

2560
02:20:30,120 --> 02:20:32,920
Speaker 1: definitely do that. Anytime I have moved anywhere, I'll type

2561
02:20:32,920 --> 02:20:35,520
Speaker 1: in my zip code and then I go, ah, that

2562
02:20:35,680 --> 02:20:40,120
Speaker 1: sounds bad. Um, I don't like that. But yeah, you

2563
02:20:40,200 --> 02:20:42,080
Speaker 1: can find out, you know, once you put in you

2564
02:20:42,120 --> 02:20:45,680
Speaker 1: can find out who who, Like you put in your

2565
02:20:45,760 --> 02:20:49,360
Speaker 1: zip code on this is just ewg dot org. You

2566
02:20:49,440 --> 02:20:51,440
Speaker 1: put in your zip code and you can put who

2567
02:20:52,280 --> 02:20:54,120
Speaker 1: you pay for water, and then it goes in and

2568
02:20:54,280 --> 02:20:56,560
Speaker 1: it tells you. You know, it's really it's really fun.

2569
02:20:56,959 --> 02:21:01,680
Speaker 1: Four In my mind, I read four you Health Guidelines

2570
02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:08,080
Speaker 1: fourteen contaminants. Oh yes, yeah, I think a combination of

2571
02:21:08,200 --> 02:21:10,400
Speaker 1: two is probably your best bet, Like unless you happen

2572
02:21:10,400 --> 02:21:14,760
Speaker 1: to our laboratory, like because there's stuff coming like if

2573
02:21:14,800 --> 02:21:18,120
Speaker 1: there is like lead like in between the water mains

2574
02:21:18,400 --> 02:21:20,680
Speaker 1: and or like you know, wherever the EDWD is getting

2575
02:21:20,680 --> 02:21:24,360
Speaker 1: its information and your tap. Then you're still risking like

2576
02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:26,600
Speaker 1: heavy metal contaminants, right, or if you're on a well,

2577
02:21:27,120 --> 02:21:28,760
Speaker 1: you should test that it. I think it's every year, right,

2578
02:21:28,760 --> 02:21:32,280
Speaker 1: you're supposed to test your well water. I probably should.

2579
02:21:35,280 --> 02:21:36,800
Speaker 1: You know, you'll be fine, you'll know. But yeah, I

2580
02:21:37,080 --> 02:21:39,880
Speaker 1: think it's important that, like you, I have definitely got

2581
02:21:40,360 --> 02:21:43,280
Speaker 1: super sick from water that looks super clear, had no odor,

2582
02:21:44,200 --> 02:21:49,880
Speaker 1: looked fine, And I have drunk from turbit as fuck

2583
02:21:50,000 --> 02:21:53,080
Speaker 1: stagnant water and not been sick. Like your nose is

2584
02:21:53,120 --> 02:21:55,960
Speaker 1: not going to tell you, and you do need some

2585
02:21:56,120 --> 02:22:02,000
Speaker 1: kind of help. Yeah, let's talk about storing water first,

2586
02:22:02,040 --> 02:22:04,439
Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about the more sort of established

2587
02:22:04,480 --> 02:22:08,000
Speaker 1: solutions for the more expected contaminants. I guess, Yeah, how

2588
02:22:08,040 --> 02:22:11,280
Speaker 1: would you go about let's say you're not in Philadelphia

2589
02:22:11,360 --> 02:22:14,400
Speaker 1: right now and you want to prepare for something that

2590
02:22:14,520 --> 02:22:16,320
Speaker 1: could happen in your area, how would you go about

2591
02:22:16,320 --> 02:22:20,120
Speaker 1: storing water? So the easiest ways that you go get

2592
02:22:20,120 --> 02:22:23,000
Speaker 1: bottled water, if it is sealed and you keep it

2593
02:22:23,080 --> 02:22:24,760
Speaker 1: out of the sun, you keep it out of the heat,

2594
02:22:25,879 --> 02:22:28,480
Speaker 1: even though you're it's supposedly good for a year or

2595
02:22:28,480 --> 02:22:30,560
Speaker 1: two whatever. I feel like, really nervous on this, like,

2596
02:22:31,200 --> 02:22:33,640
Speaker 1: this is what's safe, even though it's not safe, right,

2597
02:22:34,160 --> 02:22:39,040
Speaker 1: but you can. Water itself doesn't go bad. That is

2598
02:22:39,080 --> 02:22:41,800
Speaker 1: a thing that is worth understanding. Left to its own devices,

2599
02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:44,720
Speaker 1: water does not go bad. Water goes bad when there's

2600
02:22:44,760 --> 02:22:48,199
Speaker 1: like something in it that replicates, like bacteria or something

2601
02:22:48,320 --> 02:22:52,120
Speaker 1: like that, or when something leaks into it. The main

2602
02:22:52,240 --> 02:22:53,800
Speaker 1: reason that you want to keep your water out of

2603
02:22:53,840 --> 02:22:55,920
Speaker 1: the sun and out of the heat is because if

2604
02:22:55,959 --> 02:22:59,680
Speaker 1: you're storing it in plastic, that can eventually kind of

2605
02:22:59,800 --> 02:23:02,600
Speaker 1: lead each into it as the plastic degrades, and that

2606
02:23:03,920 --> 02:23:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's probably long term health effects. But

2607
02:23:06,200 --> 02:23:09,080
Speaker 1: like I would drink a water bottle that has been

2608
02:23:09,200 --> 02:23:11,800
Speaker 1: in the backseat of my car for a year before

2609
02:23:11,840 --> 02:23:18,640
Speaker 1: I would drink beautile acrelate water, and which is I mean,

2610
02:23:18,760 --> 02:23:21,360
Speaker 1: it's I guess that's just plastic or plastic pick your poison.

2611
02:23:21,480 --> 02:23:27,040
Speaker 1: But but yeah, so bottled water is generally very safe

2612
02:23:27,520 --> 02:23:30,200
Speaker 1: and it is sealed and it has no particular reason

2613
02:23:30,240 --> 02:23:32,480
Speaker 1: to go bad. You don't want to store it next

2614
02:23:32,560 --> 02:23:35,560
Speaker 1: to kerosene or gasoline. Like if you are the kind

2615
02:23:35,600 --> 02:23:39,160
Speaker 1: of person who keeps five gallon jug of gasoline around,

2616
02:23:39,400 --> 02:23:41,040
Speaker 1: you want that in a different place than your water.

2617
02:23:42,080 --> 02:23:45,280
Speaker 1: Usually you want the gasoline outside your house and outbuilding.

2618
02:23:45,560 --> 02:23:49,800
Speaker 1: Everyone lives on acreage in the rural areas the country, right,

2619
02:23:51,080 --> 02:23:54,480
Speaker 1: so many outbuildings around here. Yeah, everyone's outbuildings. Just go

2620
02:23:54,560 --> 02:24:00,760
Speaker 1: out to my urban bond, Yeah exactly, So okay, Well, okay.

2621
02:24:00,800 --> 02:24:04,080
Speaker 1: Then the other thing, if I'm actually preparing go out

2622
02:24:04,120 --> 02:24:06,480
Speaker 1: and get some five gallon Jerry cans. You're going to

2623
02:24:06,520 --> 02:24:08,520
Speaker 1: pay between twenty and fifty dollars, and you'll get a

2624
02:24:08,560 --> 02:24:11,640
Speaker 1: little bit of different quality depending on that. You want

2625
02:24:11,720 --> 02:24:15,840
Speaker 1: something that is BPA free, you want something that is opaque,

2626
02:24:16,320 --> 02:24:18,680
Speaker 1: and you want something that is like not really bigger

2627
02:24:18,760 --> 02:24:22,199
Speaker 1: than four or five gallons because it's clumsy and unwieldy. Yeah.

2628
02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:25,600
Speaker 1: You also don't want to stack these things unless they

2629
02:24:25,680 --> 02:24:30,199
Speaker 1: specifically say this one is stackable to such and such depth.

2630
02:24:30,400 --> 02:24:33,600
Speaker 1: Like most stackable containers are also only stackable one or

2631
02:24:33,640 --> 02:24:39,720
Speaker 1: two high, well two or three high, and I don't know,

2632
02:24:39,800 --> 02:24:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean, like frankly, on some level, that's what there is, okay,

2633
02:24:42,760 --> 02:24:44,920
Speaker 1: And if you're going to fill your own water containers.

2634
02:24:44,959 --> 02:24:48,080
Speaker 1: There are a couple weird things about it. One people

2635
02:24:48,200 --> 02:24:52,160
Speaker 1: argue about how often you should rotate it. I rotate

2636
02:24:52,200 --> 02:24:54,840
Speaker 1: in mind about once a year. You should theoretically rotate

2637
02:24:54,879 --> 02:24:57,480
Speaker 1: them somewhere between six months and a year or something

2638
02:24:57,560 --> 02:25:00,800
Speaker 1: like that, depending on how you store it. The other

2639
02:25:00,920 --> 02:25:04,199
Speaker 1: thing is that if you are I actually think living

2640
02:25:04,200 --> 02:25:06,360
Speaker 1: off of well, you should probably rotate it more often.

2641
02:25:06,560 --> 02:25:09,720
Speaker 1: If you're on municipal water, don't run it through your

2642
02:25:09,760 --> 02:25:13,039
Speaker 1: britta before you store it, because that britta is going

2643
02:25:13,080 --> 02:25:15,160
Speaker 1: to pull out all the chlorine, all the bleach, and

2644
02:25:15,160 --> 02:25:16,640
Speaker 1: people are like, whoa, I don't want to drink bleach.

2645
02:25:16,760 --> 02:25:21,480
Speaker 1: I listen to that punk song Dead Dead milkman, um whatever.

2646
02:25:23,200 --> 02:25:24,920
Speaker 1: People don't want to drink bleach? Right, you actually do

2647
02:25:25,040 --> 02:25:29,520
Speaker 1: want to drink tiny amounts of bleach. You want Tunico

2648
02:25:29,600 --> 02:25:34,160
Speaker 1: medical solution. Yeah, it keeps bacteria from growing. So if

2649
02:25:34,200 --> 02:25:36,400
Speaker 1: you filter out all of that and then you put

2650
02:25:36,480 --> 02:25:38,600
Speaker 1: it the water in the thing, if there's the tiniest

2651
02:25:38,640 --> 02:25:42,040
Speaker 1: little bacteria that got through, it's like sweet, the defenses

2652
02:25:42,040 --> 02:25:47,000
Speaker 1: are down, you know. Um so, But yeah, honestly, story

2653
02:25:47,080 --> 02:25:49,640
Speaker 1: and water like people like they're going to sell you

2654
02:25:49,720 --> 02:25:51,800
Speaker 1: lots of products, and like prepper sites are full of

2655
02:25:52,120 --> 02:25:55,520
Speaker 1: people selling you shit. But it's just a matter of

2656
02:25:55,640 --> 02:25:58,520
Speaker 1: like finding containers and filling them with water and then

2657
02:25:58,640 --> 02:26:03,119
Speaker 1: rotating them every now and then, and it's not actually

2658
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:05,440
Speaker 1: that big of a deal or super complicated. That's my

2659
02:26:05,600 --> 02:26:08,200
Speaker 1: take on it. Um. I used to live off of

2660
02:26:09,040 --> 02:26:11,000
Speaker 1: I used to live entirely off grid and then had

2661
02:26:11,040 --> 02:26:12,960
Speaker 1: to just drink water out of fifty gallon drums, and

2662
02:26:14,200 --> 02:26:17,400
Speaker 1: I just I didn't even you know what, I'm not

2663
02:26:17,480 --> 02:26:19,480
Speaker 1: going to say how bad my practices were because I

2664
02:26:19,480 --> 02:26:23,800
Speaker 1: don't want anyone to emulate me. I was gonna say,

2665
02:26:23,800 --> 02:26:25,960
Speaker 1: if you're like, if you're storing on a scale, I

2666
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:28,800
Speaker 1: don't know why they'd say you live on a compound

2667
02:26:28,800 --> 02:26:32,879
Speaker 1: in the desert. You know you can get big water tanks, right,

2668
02:26:32,959 --> 02:26:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at moving out to the desert a

2669
02:26:35,040 --> 02:26:39,039
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. I didn't, but yeah, you can

2670
02:26:39,080 --> 02:26:41,400
Speaker 1: get big water tanks are pretty cheap. You should. I'm

2671
02:26:41,400 --> 02:26:43,680
Speaker 1: placed about a dollar a gallon. Last time I looked

2672
02:26:43,720 --> 02:26:47,600
Speaker 1: for like a fifteen hundred gallon tank. Yeah, I found

2673
02:26:47,640 --> 02:26:51,120
Speaker 1: them cheap, like GOV sp plus ones as well, pretty often.

2674
02:26:51,440 --> 02:26:56,080
Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, we'll talk later. Yeah, yeah, Well I'll

2675
02:26:56,120 --> 02:26:59,320
Speaker 1: send you some send you some links, but you might

2676
02:26:59,440 --> 02:27:01,480
Speaker 1: want to check it places you actually can't legally have

2677
02:27:01,720 --> 02:27:05,640
Speaker 1: those it's getting better now with that stuff, but you

2678
02:27:05,840 --> 02:27:07,560
Speaker 1: do want to check on that. I think if you're

2679
02:27:07,680 --> 02:27:09,400
Speaker 1: or you could get like a water buffalo, which is

2680
02:27:09,480 --> 02:27:14,039
Speaker 1: an industrial device for shipping water. You can probably pick

2681
02:27:14,080 --> 02:27:17,040
Speaker 1: up those pretty cheap. It's an animal. I don't want to.

2682
02:27:17,520 --> 02:27:22,080
Speaker 1: Don't dehumanize it calling it an industrial machine. It's an animal.

2683
02:27:22,120 --> 02:27:24,840
Speaker 1: It has feelings, Yeah, it does. And you just keep

2684
02:27:24,879 --> 02:27:26,800
Speaker 1: that in your backyard and then well that is is

2685
02:27:26,879 --> 02:27:30,080
Speaker 1: attack anyone who comes after your water. So it's quite effective. Yeah,

2686
02:27:31,800 --> 02:27:37,240
Speaker 1: they are toughest nails. I've had some brunners with buffalo animals. Okay,

2687
02:27:38,280 --> 02:27:41,480
Speaker 1: another thing, I guess that like, if you're like going

2688
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:44,160
Speaker 1: hardcore on this and storing thousands of guyans of water,

2689
02:27:45,480 --> 02:27:47,600
Speaker 1: maybe you could invested something like a chlorine maker, and

2690
02:27:47,720 --> 02:27:51,040
Speaker 1: that way, if you do like mess up with your storage,

2691
02:27:51,040 --> 02:27:53,520
Speaker 1: I guess that that could maybe give you some leeway

2692
02:27:53,959 --> 02:27:57,160
Speaker 1: in terms of purifying afterwards. It's out fair to say, Margaret, Yeah,

2693
02:27:57,200 --> 02:27:58,840
Speaker 1: I mean that makes sense. Like chlorine maker is the

2694
02:27:58,920 --> 02:28:01,840
Speaker 1: next step up from basically because like bleach itself does

2695
02:28:02,000 --> 02:28:04,840
Speaker 1: go bad and it's not shelf stable for I don't

2696
02:28:04,840 --> 02:28:08,959
Speaker 1: remember how long it lasts. It's not indefinitely shelf stable,

2697
02:28:08,959 --> 02:28:12,560
Speaker 1: and so people often, especially in places of that, access

2698
02:28:12,600 --> 02:28:15,240
Speaker 1: to clean water and stuff. I will say, though, when

2699
02:28:15,280 --> 02:28:18,320
Speaker 1: we get into it, chemical treatment is really good for

2700
02:28:18,440 --> 02:28:22,800
Speaker 1: the main stuff that people normally worry about, such as protozoa, bacteria,

2701
02:28:22,800 --> 02:28:25,840
Speaker 1: and viruses. But once again, isn't going to do shit

2702
02:28:26,040 --> 02:28:29,879
Speaker 1: for some stuff that goes bad? Yeah? I think it might.

2703
02:28:29,959 --> 02:28:33,160
Speaker 1: There's one thing, maybe cryptosporidian. There's something that chlorine specifically

2704
02:28:33,200 --> 02:28:36,240
Speaker 1: doesn't work for. Oh, that's right. Actually, yeah, it's actually

2705
02:28:36,240 --> 02:28:38,640
Speaker 1: not very good at protozoa. It's weirdly good at viruses,

2706
02:28:38,640 --> 02:28:41,840
Speaker 1: and then whereas most of the filters are not good

2707
02:28:41,879 --> 02:28:44,800
Speaker 1: at viruses and are good at bacteria and protozoa. So

2708
02:28:44,840 --> 02:28:47,440
Speaker 1: we should probably explain these different things right right, ways

2709
02:28:47,480 --> 02:28:49,960
Speaker 1: you can treat your water. Okay, there's a bunch of

2710
02:28:49,959 --> 02:28:51,440
Speaker 1: stuff that you can be in your water you don't

2711
02:28:51,480 --> 02:28:53,360
Speaker 1: wish was in the water. The one that is like

2712
02:28:53,560 --> 02:28:55,160
Speaker 1: kind of off the top of my head, the one

2713
02:28:55,200 --> 02:28:57,000
Speaker 1: that I think about the most because if I had

2714
02:28:57,040 --> 02:28:59,640
Speaker 1: to deal with it, it sucked our protozoa. The two

2715
02:28:59,640 --> 02:29:03,400
Speaker 1: big one are Giardia and Cryptospuridium. And these are tiny

2716
02:29:03,480 --> 02:29:06,000
Speaker 1: little animals in the water. If you can look at

2717
02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:07,960
Speaker 1: pictures of them, they're really cute, and they make you

2718
02:29:08,040 --> 02:29:14,480
Speaker 1: shit a lot forever, sometimes until you die, mostly immunocompromise folks,

2719
02:29:15,360 --> 02:29:18,680
Speaker 1: but everyone really unhappy. And if you're in a survival

2720
02:29:18,760 --> 02:29:22,880
Speaker 1: situation already, diarrhea is like no laughing matter. Your inability

2721
02:29:22,920 --> 02:29:26,040
Speaker 1: to keep in fluids and nutrients will dramatically affect your

2722
02:29:26,240 --> 02:29:29,680
Speaker 1: your chance of survival. So that's protozoa. They are the

2723
02:29:29,840 --> 02:29:32,160
Speaker 1: biggest of these things and therefore sort of the easiest

2724
02:29:32,200 --> 02:29:34,080
Speaker 1: to actually don't whether they're bigger in bacteria or not.

2725
02:29:34,280 --> 02:29:36,240
Speaker 1: Then there's bacteria, which it can also be in water

2726
02:29:36,320 --> 02:29:38,680
Speaker 1: and do bad stuff to you. And then there's viruses,

2727
02:29:38,720 --> 02:29:40,160
Speaker 1: and viruses can be in the water and do bad

2728
02:29:40,160 --> 02:29:44,320
Speaker 1: stuff to you. Largely in the United States, and people

2729
02:29:44,440 --> 02:29:49,400
Speaker 1: don't worry about viruses and water, and that's not because

2730
02:29:49,440 --> 02:29:50,960
Speaker 1: our heads are in the sand. It's because we don't

2731
02:29:51,000 --> 02:29:55,800
Speaker 1: have as many viruses in our water. Then there's chemicals

2732
02:29:55,840 --> 02:29:57,240
Speaker 1: you could have in your water. We don't like them.

2733
02:29:57,680 --> 02:29:59,480
Speaker 1: There's dirt that can be in your water, which is

2734
02:29:59,520 --> 02:30:03,200
Speaker 1: just like not fun. There's heavy metals like lead and

2735
02:30:03,320 --> 02:30:09,040
Speaker 1: iron that can have deliterious effects on your health. Some

2736
02:30:09,160 --> 02:30:12,560
Speaker 1: people want to get water hardening minerals like calcium and

2737
02:30:12,640 --> 02:30:14,760
Speaker 1: magnesium out of their water, but you actually don't want

2738
02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:16,680
Speaker 1: to get rid of all of them. That's the catch.

2739
02:30:17,160 --> 02:30:19,040
Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna have to talk about, because your

2740
02:30:19,080 --> 02:30:21,120
Speaker 1: body wants some of those things. They mostly just like

2741
02:30:22,360 --> 02:30:26,640
Speaker 1: make your house has all the all the plumbing brakes.

2742
02:30:28,280 --> 02:30:31,080
Speaker 1: That's like the main stuff. There's also things like nitrates

2743
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:33,800
Speaker 1: that I don't understand well enough to talk about how

2744
02:30:33,879 --> 02:30:37,960
Speaker 1: we get rid of things. The most common way that

2745
02:30:38,080 --> 02:30:40,000
Speaker 1: like backpackers and stuff who are a lot of the

2746
02:30:40,040 --> 02:30:42,880
Speaker 1: people who diy this on a regular basis use is

2747
02:30:42,920 --> 02:30:47,600
Speaker 1: something called filtration, or I'm going to call filtration. First

2748
02:30:47,800 --> 02:30:50,160
Speaker 1: use you screen your water as in, you get out

2749
02:30:50,200 --> 02:30:52,520
Speaker 1: the large chunks usually people use like a bandana or

2750
02:30:52,560 --> 02:30:55,480
Speaker 1: a sock or just some piece of cloth, right, and

2751
02:30:55,560 --> 02:30:57,120
Speaker 1: you want to use that so you're not gumming up

2752
02:30:57,120 --> 02:31:01,119
Speaker 1: your filter, and then it goes into something where it's

2753
02:31:01,160 --> 02:31:05,240
Speaker 1: forced through a membrane with micropores. These used to be ceramic,

2754
02:31:05,360 --> 02:31:08,800
Speaker 1: but these days they're like a bunch of tiny little

2755
02:31:08,879 --> 02:31:13,400
Speaker 1: tubes like the internet, and most of these are basically

2756
02:31:13,560 --> 02:31:16,000
Speaker 1: la tubes have holes in them that are so small

2757
02:31:16,440 --> 02:31:19,200
Speaker 1: that it stops protozoa and bacteria from going through it.

2758
02:31:19,320 --> 02:31:21,160
Speaker 1: That is, it's like main claim to fame. It is

2759
02:31:21,280 --> 02:31:24,400
Speaker 1: very effective at it. Now that they're not ceramic, you

2760
02:31:24,440 --> 02:31:27,080
Speaker 1: don't have to clean it like every fucking gallon. And

2761
02:31:28,640 --> 02:31:31,120
Speaker 1: these are really good top brands that I am not

2762
02:31:31,280 --> 02:31:34,360
Speaker 1: sponsored by our sawyer and life straw. They're going to

2763
02:31:34,440 --> 02:31:37,680
Speaker 1: use slightly different methods. People have opinions about them. I'm

2764
02:31:37,720 --> 02:31:41,720
Speaker 1: not going to offer mine right now. And they're measured

2765
02:31:41,760 --> 02:31:46,440
Speaker 1: in the size of the holes. Anything that's like one

2766
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:50,800
Speaker 1: micron is small enough to stop most protozoa. Most of

2767
02:31:50,840 --> 02:31:53,760
Speaker 1: these ones are either point one or point two. These

2768
02:31:53,840 --> 02:31:59,360
Speaker 1: don't block viruses, so they make ones that have even

2769
02:31:59,440 --> 02:32:02,920
Speaker 1: smaller holes that can deal with viruses. And this also

2770
02:32:03,000 --> 02:32:06,840
Speaker 1: blocks microplastics, but you know whatever. Then there's chemical treatment.

2771
02:32:07,240 --> 02:32:11,240
Speaker 1: Chemical treatment. The two most common ones are bleach chlorine

2772
02:32:11,720 --> 02:32:16,360
Speaker 1: or iodine. And there's also like chemical tablets that you

2773
02:32:16,400 --> 02:32:18,200
Speaker 1: can buy that are like worth keeping around. They weigh

2774
02:32:18,200 --> 02:32:21,920
Speaker 1: almost nothing. Whatever. Um, I am not going to give

2775
02:32:21,959 --> 02:32:24,200
Speaker 1: you the chart of how much bleached to add your water,

2776
02:32:24,360 --> 02:32:27,320
Speaker 1: and don't just go listen to me and add bleach

2777
02:32:27,400 --> 02:32:30,960
Speaker 1: to your water. Fucking look it up. Do not use

2778
02:32:31,040 --> 02:32:33,800
Speaker 1: color safe bleach. Do not use scented bleach. It's just

2779
02:32:34,000 --> 02:32:36,960
Speaker 1: disinfected bleach, which will probably either come in six percent

2780
02:32:37,160 --> 02:32:42,080
Speaker 1: or eight point two five percent sodium hypochlorite chlorite. Um

2781
02:32:43,040 --> 02:32:48,520
Speaker 1: and sounds so growths just that those commination. Yeah, what

2782
02:32:48,600 --> 02:32:54,840
Speaker 1: do they sent it with the blood of I don't know.

2783
02:32:54,959 --> 02:33:07,640
Speaker 1: I got yeah, poisoned something that sounds so gross. I

2784
02:33:07,760 --> 02:33:10,600
Speaker 1: used to wear lavender all the time. I actually I

2785
02:33:10,680 --> 02:33:12,440
Speaker 1: stopped for two reasons. First, I stopped when I was

2786
02:33:12,520 --> 02:33:14,600
Speaker 1: in college because like my girlfriend was like, you smell

2787
02:33:14,680 --> 02:33:16,880
Speaker 1: like soap and was like really mad at me. Um,

2788
02:33:17,400 --> 02:33:20,200
Speaker 1: if you're listening whatever, I don't care. And then I

2789
02:33:20,280 --> 02:33:26,320
Speaker 1: stopped get what in Margaret go on Off's good look

2790
02:33:26,360 --> 02:33:30,800
Speaker 1: at me now? Yeah, thanks for turning me on the

2791
02:33:30,840 --> 02:33:34,760
Speaker 1: lots of cool stuff. Um, that was much healthier than

2792
02:33:34,840 --> 02:33:38,000
Speaker 1: I would have been. I'm proud of you. And then uh,

2793
02:33:39,240 --> 02:33:41,600
Speaker 1: um the other reason I stopped wearing lavenders. That attracts

2794
02:33:41,680 --> 02:33:45,400
Speaker 1: ticks if you're out in the out in the woods.

2795
02:33:45,959 --> 02:33:50,240
Speaker 1: Um anyway, okay, so that's chemical treatment. Chemical treatment is

2796
02:33:50,320 --> 02:33:53,959
Speaker 1: really good for bacteria and viruses. It's not great for parasites.

2797
02:33:54,240 --> 02:33:57,760
Speaker 1: It is a really good backup system. Right. Um, actually

2798
02:33:57,760 --> 02:34:00,520
Speaker 1: I'll go over the fucking king of all of them

2799
02:34:00,600 --> 02:34:03,160
Speaker 1: for for bacteria, bas and parasites. You want to get

2800
02:34:03,200 --> 02:34:05,800
Speaker 1: rid of it, you fucking boil your water. Um. The

2801
02:34:06,000 --> 02:34:08,360
Speaker 1: like classic way to deal with it is you boil

2802
02:34:08,440 --> 02:34:11,879
Speaker 1: your water and it only needs to get above sixty

2803
02:34:11,920 --> 02:34:14,800
Speaker 1: degrees celsius, which is like one hundred and forty something

2804
02:34:14,879 --> 02:34:19,680
Speaker 1: in regular human um. And I actually don't know the conversion.

2805
02:34:19,760 --> 02:34:25,160
Speaker 1: I actually know when you're talking about fahrenheit. Okay, fahrenheit

2806
02:34:25,320 --> 02:34:28,160
Speaker 1: is really good about humans because zero is cold and

2807
02:34:28,200 --> 02:34:31,640
Speaker 1: a hundred is hot. Yes, celsius is really good about

2808
02:34:31,879 --> 02:34:35,320
Speaker 1: for water. So we're we actually are talking about water

2809
02:34:35,480 --> 02:34:38,000
Speaker 1: right now. So celsius is the proper scale because it

2810
02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:42,440
Speaker 1: goes from zero is freezing to one hundred is boiling. Yeah, um,

2811
02:34:43,640 --> 02:34:46,080
Speaker 1: go ahead, Yeah, it's uh, you know what we should

2812
02:34:46,080 --> 02:34:47,920
Speaker 1: do before before we talk fother about water? Do you

2813
02:34:48,000 --> 02:34:50,200
Speaker 1: know what will not make you shot yourself to death?

2814
02:34:51,520 --> 02:34:58,600
Speaker 1: H Reagan coins? Yeah, it probably is Ronald Reagan coins. Again.

2815
02:34:59,400 --> 02:35:02,080
Speaker 1: All right, we thank you very much, Uncle ron for

2816
02:35:02,160 --> 02:35:05,920
Speaker 1: continuing to pay for my healthcare and insulin needs. So, Margaret,

2817
02:35:05,959 --> 02:35:10,320
Speaker 1: we were we were talking about boiling. Fuck boiling water.

2818
02:35:10,440 --> 02:35:13,400
Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah, yeah, so how long do we need

2819
02:35:13,440 --> 02:35:16,000
Speaker 1: to boil stuff for? Change? Depending on what we got.

2820
02:35:16,320 --> 02:35:20,080
Speaker 1: It does but not really, it's like all of the

2821
02:35:20,200 --> 02:35:24,480
Speaker 1: main and do do the actual instructions. Overkill is better

2822
02:35:24,560 --> 02:35:28,360
Speaker 1: than regular get killed, right, um, but most shit dies

2823
02:35:28,400 --> 02:35:31,280
Speaker 1: off at sixty degrees celsius, which is below the boiling

2824
02:35:31,320 --> 02:35:34,440
Speaker 1: point of water even at high elevation. However, basically the

2825
02:35:34,560 --> 02:35:37,360
Speaker 1: deal is at you want to boil water for one

2826
02:35:37,400 --> 02:35:40,120
Speaker 1: minute at sea level three minutes above five thousand feet

2827
02:35:40,560 --> 02:35:44,400
Speaker 1: um or five kilometer. No wait, no, go on, it's

2828
02:35:44,440 --> 02:35:50,680
Speaker 1: not a thousand feet okay, um and yeah, so so

2829
02:35:50,840 --> 02:35:53,440
Speaker 1: boiling water is actually the one of the main things

2830
02:35:53,480 --> 02:35:55,280
Speaker 1: you can do. It doesn't get rid of everything. It

2831
02:35:55,360 --> 02:35:58,760
Speaker 1: gets rid of those three things protozoa, bacteria, and viruses

2832
02:35:59,120 --> 02:36:01,520
Speaker 1: very effectively. And that is most of the time what

2833
02:36:01,720 --> 02:36:04,120
Speaker 1: most people are treating water for. A lot of the

2834
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:07,600
Speaker 1: other stuff is like long term health effects like heavy

2835
02:36:07,680 --> 02:36:12,240
Speaker 1: metals and chemicals, right yea. Other methods that you can use.

2836
02:36:12,480 --> 02:36:14,640
Speaker 1: The other like kind of gold standard, which isn't as

2837
02:36:14,680 --> 02:36:16,720
Speaker 1: good as it seems like it should be, is distillation.

2838
02:36:17,240 --> 02:36:20,520
Speaker 1: Distillation gets out lots of stuff. Distillation is basically you

2839
02:36:20,680 --> 02:36:23,640
Speaker 1: evaporate the water and then let it run down into

2840
02:36:23,879 --> 02:36:29,560
Speaker 1: another container. You're moonshining your own water, and and you

2841
02:36:29,640 --> 02:36:32,119
Speaker 1: can do this DIY fairly well. And there's like solar

2842
02:36:32,200 --> 02:36:34,000
Speaker 1: stills that are really cool. I've never actually built one,

2843
02:36:34,000 --> 02:36:37,960
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to. The downside is if you'd live

2844
02:36:38,000 --> 02:36:40,200
Speaker 1: off of distilled water for a long time, it gets

2845
02:36:40,280 --> 02:36:42,320
Speaker 1: out the magnesium and the calcium, It gets out the

2846
02:36:43,080 --> 02:36:45,080
Speaker 1: minerals that you actually want in your water, so it

2847
02:36:45,120 --> 02:36:47,040
Speaker 1: can have negative effects on your long term health if

2848
02:36:47,040 --> 02:36:50,120
Speaker 1: you only drink distilled water. The main thing that distillation

2849
02:36:50,200 --> 02:36:53,800
Speaker 1: does that I think no other method on this does

2850
02:36:54,000 --> 02:36:56,600
Speaker 1: besides a reverse osmosis, which I'm not really going to

2851
02:36:56,680 --> 02:37:02,800
Speaker 1: get into, is it desalinates water. Go ahead. That's a

2852
02:37:02,840 --> 02:37:04,680
Speaker 1: big deal, right because like if we look at long

2853
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:08,280
Speaker 1: term water insecurity, like certainly where I live, we live

2854
02:37:08,320 --> 02:37:10,160
Speaker 1: in a place where people like to play golf in

2855
02:37:10,240 --> 02:37:13,120
Speaker 1: the desert and that has become an issue as far

2856
02:37:13,160 --> 02:37:16,840
Speaker 1: as water supplies go, and so desalination is often proposed.

2857
02:37:16,920 --> 02:37:19,720
Speaker 1: It's like a way to deal with our water crisis

2858
02:37:19,800 --> 02:37:23,120
Speaker 1: in California and the fact that the Colorado River is

2859
02:37:23,400 --> 02:37:25,920
Speaker 1: getting lower and lower and we rely on it. But

2860
02:37:26,240 --> 02:37:27,880
Speaker 1: like you said, lots of these methods aren't going to

2861
02:37:27,959 --> 02:37:29,840
Speaker 1: pull the salt out of water, right, didn't let you

2862
02:37:29,920 --> 02:37:34,000
Speaker 1: drink seawater, right, But this one does. And so I mean, actually,

2863
02:37:34,040 --> 02:37:36,000
Speaker 1: I don't really care about the health of golf course.

2864
02:37:36,080 --> 02:37:38,760
Speaker 1: I have actually negative feelings about the health of golf courses.

2865
02:37:40,400 --> 02:37:45,480
Speaker 1: But theoretically, maybe water in your lawn with the desalinated

2866
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:49,640
Speaker 1: distilled water and then drinking the water that actually has

2867
02:37:49,680 --> 02:37:51,959
Speaker 1: minerals in it. But then again, like maybe the plants

2868
02:37:52,080 --> 02:37:56,000
Speaker 1: need that shit too, I don't fucking no. So, And

2869
02:37:56,080 --> 02:37:59,880
Speaker 1: in distillation, it's very good at getting out heavy metals

2870
02:38:00,000 --> 02:38:04,960
Speaker 1: also like iron and lead, and it the reason it

2871
02:38:05,080 --> 02:38:07,200
Speaker 1: gets out the bacteria and viruses. It's not because they

2872
02:38:07,240 --> 02:38:10,360
Speaker 1: can evaporate, but because they die getting boiled because you

2873
02:38:10,480 --> 02:38:17,360
Speaker 1: boiled distill. Yeah, and some pesticides are filtered out if

2874
02:38:17,400 --> 02:38:20,080
Speaker 1: their boiling point is greater than the boiling point of water.

2875
02:38:21,160 --> 02:38:23,320
Speaker 1: Benzene and too lean which I don't know what is.

2876
02:38:23,480 --> 02:38:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't know too lean is. These are examples of

2877
02:38:26,720 --> 02:38:31,040
Speaker 1: things that do not get distilled out. Then there's a

2878
02:38:31,120 --> 02:38:36,080
Speaker 1: couple more. There's absorption adsorption rules. This is the thing

2879
02:38:36,200 --> 02:38:38,920
Speaker 1: that I always misspell and so that's why I emphasize

2880
02:38:38,959 --> 02:38:43,879
Speaker 1: the ad absorption, and I don't really understand. Go ahead,

2881
02:38:44,440 --> 02:38:47,080
Speaker 1: how do we adsorb? Is that just like absorption with adverts?

2882
02:38:47,800 --> 02:38:49,959
Speaker 1: You know? It's like, yeah, it's like I took three

2883
02:38:50,000 --> 02:38:51,920
Speaker 1: years of ladin and all I remember is that ad

2884
02:38:52,040 --> 02:38:55,640
Speaker 1: means towards, an ab means away from, and maybe a

2885
02:38:55,680 --> 02:39:00,560
Speaker 1: gorkoli is either farmer or farmhouse. Yeah, I got poor

2886
02:39:01,040 --> 02:39:08,400
Speaker 1: poor sums suma aramat aramasama sartta. I remember that one. Now, Yeah, great, Yeah,

2887
02:39:08,640 --> 02:39:11,840
Speaker 1: there you go. You've something today. Yeah. I wish that

2888
02:39:11,959 --> 02:39:14,199
Speaker 1: my school had made me take Spanish instead of letting

2889
02:39:14,240 --> 02:39:19,080
Speaker 1: me take some bullshit like Latin. H Yeah, exactly. So

2890
02:39:19,879 --> 02:39:26,200
Speaker 1: adsorption is good for pesticides, heavy medicals, heavy metals, chemicals, viruses,

2891
02:39:26,480 --> 02:39:28,760
Speaker 1: and bad tastes. It's the only one of these things

2892
02:39:28,800 --> 02:39:31,800
Speaker 1: that I'm aware of that actually use can get rid

2893
02:39:31,800 --> 02:39:33,720
Speaker 1: of bad taste because this is pulling out all the

2894
02:39:33,840 --> 02:39:36,280
Speaker 1: weird stuff in the water. And what it is is

2895
02:39:36,320 --> 02:39:39,920
Speaker 1: it uses activated carbon, which is basically just some shit

2896
02:39:40,040 --> 02:39:43,360
Speaker 1: that's fucking burned and then crunched up real small. It

2897
02:39:43,520 --> 02:39:47,320
Speaker 1: is a huge surface area because it's like little powder, right, Um,

2898
02:39:47,440 --> 02:39:49,440
Speaker 1: and then the water passes through it, and then by

2899
02:39:49,520 --> 02:39:52,080
Speaker 1: some weird science shit, the bad stuff tends to stick

2900
02:39:52,120 --> 02:39:57,240
Speaker 1: to the carbon um. This is great. This is what

2901
02:39:57,360 --> 02:39:59,760
Speaker 1: your bread of filter does. This is what you're b

2902
02:40:00,040 --> 02:40:03,440
Speaker 1: key does. This is what you're pure filter does. It

2903
02:40:04,360 --> 02:40:08,360
Speaker 1: It's not as good, I believe for bacteria and stuff,

2904
02:40:08,400 --> 02:40:11,560
Speaker 1: and specifically the biggest problem with these things is that

2905
02:40:11,640 --> 02:40:15,920
Speaker 1: bacteria can grow on them, and so some people, I mean,

2906
02:40:16,040 --> 02:40:18,240
Speaker 1: that's why you replace it every so often. It's not

2907
02:40:18,320 --> 02:40:21,320
Speaker 1: because it's like slow or clogged. It's like literally unhealthy.

2908
02:40:22,800 --> 02:40:25,080
Speaker 1: And so sometimes what people do is they treat for

2909
02:40:25,160 --> 02:40:28,880
Speaker 1: bacteria with UV or some other method, bleach whatever, all

2910
02:40:28,920 --> 02:40:30,800
Speaker 1: the other shit that we talked about. We haven't talked

2911
02:40:30,800 --> 02:40:34,160
Speaker 1: about u V yet. After it goes to the carbon filter.

2912
02:40:34,520 --> 02:40:36,400
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about like kind of learning more about

2913
02:40:36,440 --> 02:40:42,240
Speaker 1: these because you can theoretically diy carbon right, Yeah, yeah,

2914
02:40:42,280 --> 02:40:45,600
Speaker 1: you're definitely could, right. I know that it's not the

2915
02:40:45,720 --> 02:40:47,760
Speaker 1: same as this, but one of the things you can

2916
02:40:47,800 --> 02:40:49,280
Speaker 1: do if you're in the back country is that if

2917
02:40:49,320 --> 02:40:51,280
Speaker 1: you have water with a lot of turbidity, which is

2918
02:40:52,000 --> 02:40:55,600
Speaker 1: stuff in the water, right, if you can't see through

2919
02:40:55,680 --> 02:40:57,400
Speaker 1: the water, you know, if it's got a lot of cloudiness.

2920
02:40:58,160 --> 02:41:01,280
Speaker 1: You can use white ash from a fire and that

2921
02:41:01,360 --> 02:41:04,240
Speaker 1: will increase the rate of which it deposits a sediment

2922
02:41:04,240 --> 02:41:06,800
Speaker 1: if you see what I mean. So you interesting because yeah,

2923
02:41:06,840 --> 02:41:09,320
Speaker 1: it sticks to it and then slowly filters through the

2924
02:41:09,400 --> 02:41:12,160
Speaker 1: bottom of them. I think the gold standard is a loom,

2925
02:41:12,280 --> 02:41:16,760
Speaker 1: which is something using canning. Okay, that increases it even quicker.

2926
02:41:16,840 --> 02:41:19,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can use white ash from a fire

2927
02:41:19,200 --> 02:41:21,880
Speaker 1: if you're dealing with I think that's I don't think

2928
02:41:21,920 --> 02:41:25,360
Speaker 1: that's activated coup but I think that's a different mechanism. Yeah, no,

2929
02:41:25,480 --> 02:41:29,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. UM. And then one of the methods

2930
02:41:29,280 --> 02:41:31,440
Speaker 1: that is actually mostly done on an industrial scale that

2931
02:41:31,520 --> 02:41:33,160
Speaker 1: actually is like I think the main way that people

2932
02:41:33,200 --> 02:41:36,040
Speaker 1: filter water in this world is through sand, and I

2933
02:41:36,200 --> 02:41:41,039
Speaker 1: didn't do enough research about um. There's both slow sand

2934
02:41:41,080 --> 02:41:43,720
Speaker 1: filters and fast sand filters, and some of them like

2935
02:41:43,920 --> 02:41:49,360
Speaker 1: literally depend on certain bacteria, good bacteria, like having a

2936
02:41:49,400 --> 02:41:52,080
Speaker 1: healthy culture of them that like eat the bad stuff

2937
02:41:52,120 --> 02:41:54,440
Speaker 1: and things. I used to know more about that than

2938
02:41:54,480 --> 02:41:56,680
Speaker 1: I do currently. And then the last one I'm going

2939
02:41:56,720 --> 02:41:59,160
Speaker 1: to cover, Okay, then those reverse osmosis, which you might

2940
02:41:59,200 --> 02:42:03,039
Speaker 1: have a kitchen thing that does and it also removes minerals.

2941
02:42:03,080 --> 02:42:05,879
Speaker 1: It's a very effective method of filtering out lots of stuff.

2942
02:42:06,120 --> 02:42:09,480
Speaker 1: It also, I don't know, causes wastewater, and it's complicated

2943
02:42:09,520 --> 02:42:11,960
Speaker 1: in some ways. And then there's UV disinfection, and this

2944
02:42:12,080 --> 02:42:13,600
Speaker 1: is like one of the ones that gets touted as

2945
02:42:13,640 --> 02:42:16,119
Speaker 1: this like this is going to save the developing world

2946
02:42:16,200 --> 02:42:19,879
Speaker 1: or whatever, right, And UV disinfection is cool and good.

2947
02:42:20,879 --> 02:42:25,240
Speaker 1: Basically it uses UV light to kill off bacteria, parasites,

2948
02:42:25,240 --> 02:42:28,879
Speaker 1: and viruses. Again, these three things that are the main

2949
02:42:29,000 --> 02:42:33,560
Speaker 1: things people are usually going for. The biggest downside of

2950
02:42:33,680 --> 02:42:36,320
Speaker 1: UV disinfection, there's two of them. One is that it

2951
02:42:36,440 --> 02:42:41,039
Speaker 1: requires low turbidity water. Thanks for introducing that term clear water.

2952
02:42:41,240 --> 02:42:43,960
Speaker 1: It has to be fairly clear water because it's about light, right,

2953
02:42:44,120 --> 02:42:48,199
Speaker 1: this makes sense, and because you have to be careful

2954
02:42:48,280 --> 02:42:50,160
Speaker 1: to do it right, you just have to like actually

2955
02:42:50,240 --> 02:42:53,320
Speaker 1: get all of it with all of it. Yeah, So

2956
02:42:54,080 --> 02:42:55,560
Speaker 1: this is why I haven't, like, for a moment, I

2957
02:42:55,600 --> 02:42:57,160
Speaker 1: got really excited about these things, and then in the

2958
02:42:57,280 --> 02:43:01,360
Speaker 1: end I was like, I like my water filter that

2959
02:43:01,440 --> 02:43:05,080
Speaker 1: I already have. Yeah, I think with UV filteration as well,

2960
02:43:05,200 --> 02:43:07,840
Speaker 1: it's been big and the outdoor world kind of relatively recently.

2961
02:43:08,280 --> 02:43:10,280
Speaker 1: You have to be conscious of storing it in a

2962
02:43:10,600 --> 02:43:15,280
Speaker 1: opaque container afterwards because the bacteria can UV like reactivate.

2963
02:43:16,000 --> 02:43:17,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I f that's like any of it that

2964
02:43:17,520 --> 02:43:20,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't get is like fuck, yeah, it's my time. Yeah,

2965
02:43:20,440 --> 02:43:24,160
Speaker 1: because it stops them reproducing. That's how it interested in there.

2966
02:43:24,360 --> 02:43:26,560
Speaker 1: But they don't so it doesn't really matter. You drink

2967
02:43:26,600 --> 02:43:27,960
Speaker 1: them and then you pass them through your system and

2968
02:43:27,959 --> 02:43:30,360
Speaker 1: it's fine, but if they reproduce, that's when you get sick.

2969
02:43:30,480 --> 02:43:34,360
Speaker 1: So somehow they can UV reactivate. So like if you

2970
02:43:34,480 --> 02:43:37,879
Speaker 1: have a you know, the classic like like through hiking thing,

2971
02:43:37,920 --> 02:43:40,039
Speaker 1: it's to use a smart water bottle, right because it's cheaping,

2972
02:43:40,120 --> 02:43:42,400
Speaker 1: it's dirty, and but if you are UV filtering and

2973
02:43:42,440 --> 02:43:44,360
Speaker 1: then traveling in your smart water bottle and then putting

2974
02:43:44,360 --> 02:43:46,039
Speaker 1: that in the back of your pack and hiking all day,

2975
02:43:46,680 --> 02:43:50,840
Speaker 1: you might get some difficulty. So yeah, I know it's

2976
02:43:50,879 --> 02:43:55,600
Speaker 1: not Yeah, I haven't really messed with it much, like like, yeah,

2977
02:43:55,600 --> 02:43:57,280
Speaker 1: I have my comfortable setup and that's what I'd like

2978
02:43:57,360 --> 02:44:01,040
Speaker 1: to use. And I will say that something that people

2979
02:44:01,560 --> 02:44:03,920
Speaker 1: who don't go camping much might not be aware of.

2980
02:44:04,959 --> 02:44:08,920
Speaker 1: There's almost nowhere in the United States that you can

2981
02:44:09,000 --> 02:44:13,560
Speaker 1: be confidently drink wild water without it without risking something

2982
02:44:13,640 --> 02:44:17,959
Speaker 1: like giardia. Um, there are places where you can directly

2983
02:44:18,040 --> 02:44:20,800
Speaker 1: from a spring is the most likely to be good. Um.

2984
02:44:20,959 --> 02:44:23,240
Speaker 1: People used to say that you can you can drink

2985
02:44:23,320 --> 02:44:25,760
Speaker 1: high elevation water if you're up in an alpine area

2986
02:44:26,080 --> 02:44:28,439
Speaker 1: because there's like no calves or whatever, because like Giardia,

2987
02:44:28,760 --> 02:44:32,240
Speaker 1: and I believe also crypto, but I'm um the other

2988
02:44:32,560 --> 02:44:37,959
Speaker 1: poop transferred crypto, the cryptosparodia, not the not the multi

2989
02:44:38,000 --> 02:44:44,280
Speaker 1: level marketing scam. Um. They it's it's passed in the

2990
02:44:44,720 --> 02:44:51,240
Speaker 1: fecal oral tradition. What's the word here, Uh, there's a

2991
02:44:51,280 --> 02:44:57,480
Speaker 1: word here for yeah pathway Yeah, and so um, because

2992
02:44:57,520 --> 02:44:59,400
Speaker 1: it's passed that way. It's like basically the fact that

2993
02:44:59,440 --> 02:45:01,640
Speaker 1: there's livestyle everywhere is the reason that's not safe to

2994
02:45:01,720 --> 02:45:02,920
Speaker 1: drink the water. And so people are like, oh, if

2995
02:45:02,920 --> 02:45:04,760
Speaker 1: you go up high enough, you're safe. But there's still

2996
02:45:04,840 --> 02:45:06,480
Speaker 1: animals up there, and there's also like more and more

2997
02:45:06,560 --> 02:45:08,520
Speaker 1: hikers up there. Almost anywhere you're going to be hiking,

2998
02:45:08,600 --> 02:45:11,120
Speaker 1: someone else is hiked, and someone else is hiked, and

2999
02:45:11,240 --> 02:45:14,720
Speaker 1: they have drank the water without filtering it because they're

3000
02:45:15,760 --> 02:45:19,040
Speaker 1: not thinking properly. And then they've shit in not in

3001
02:45:19,080 --> 02:45:21,240
Speaker 1: a hole, but just shit somewhere on the ground because

3002
02:45:21,280 --> 02:45:24,720
Speaker 1: they're also a bad person in that way. Yeah. Um,

3003
02:45:25,280 --> 02:45:28,680
Speaker 1: And so they've like tested a while ago at in

3004
02:45:28,720 --> 02:45:35,360
Speaker 1: the high Sierras that there's giardia everywhere, which doesn't necessarily

3005
02:45:35,360 --> 02:45:37,240
Speaker 1: mean it's going to make you sick, but it can

3006
02:45:37,360 --> 02:45:39,080
Speaker 1: make you sick. So it's just like worth knowing that.

3007
02:45:39,160 --> 02:45:40,879
Speaker 1: This is the reason that backpackers know so much about

3008
02:45:40,879 --> 02:45:43,840
Speaker 1: water filtration, although again they don't know as much about

3009
02:45:43,879 --> 02:45:46,080
Speaker 1: chemicals filtration, which is why I had to go and

3010
02:45:46,160 --> 02:45:47,720
Speaker 1: learn more about that, less because I'm a backpacker and

3011
02:45:47,800 --> 02:45:50,440
Speaker 1: more because they used to live off grid. But yeah,

3012
02:45:50,879 --> 02:45:53,680
Speaker 1: they're different, Like like there there are definitely a lot

3013
02:45:53,720 --> 02:45:56,119
Speaker 1: of products out there that are very affordable that work

3014
02:45:56,240 --> 02:45:59,680
Speaker 1: for like that specific specifically the giardia concern, right, which

3015
02:45:59,720 --> 02:46:02,000
Speaker 1: is one that most people have, And that's probably if

3016
02:46:02,000 --> 02:46:05,280
Speaker 1: you're like if you're in a place where you hear

3017
02:46:05,280 --> 02:46:07,720
Speaker 1: there's industrial water contamination and you go to RII and

3018
02:46:07,800 --> 02:46:10,800
Speaker 1: you buy a sawyer make a tap filter, for instance,

3019
02:46:11,600 --> 02:46:14,720
Speaker 1: it just clamps onto your tap. It probably won't work

3020
02:46:14,840 --> 02:46:18,039
Speaker 1: for the stuff that you're concerned about, but it will

3021
02:46:18,080 --> 02:46:20,120
Speaker 1: work if you're yeah, off a while, then you have

3022
02:46:20,200 --> 02:46:23,000
Speaker 1: garda or something. Yeah, And it also won't work for

3023
02:46:23,160 --> 02:46:24,800
Speaker 1: like lead, which is one of the reasons why the

3024
02:46:24,840 --> 02:46:27,040
Speaker 1: carbon filters are the more common ones at home, because

3025
02:46:28,280 --> 02:46:31,560
Speaker 1: city water that is a higher you know, if you

3026
02:46:31,640 --> 02:46:34,480
Speaker 1: live in some cities, you're gonna have lead in your water, right, Yeah,

3027
02:46:34,520 --> 02:46:37,560
Speaker 1: because we used it in pipes for decades. Yeah, but

3028
02:46:39,240 --> 02:46:43,119
Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh, let's talk shit on Burkey's really quick. Yeah,

3029
02:46:43,240 --> 02:46:45,560
Speaker 1: let's do it. What's up with Burkey? Why are they bad? So?

3030
02:46:45,760 --> 02:46:47,520
Speaker 1: I was like, I personally the other day after this thing,

3031
02:46:47,720 --> 02:46:51,680
Speaker 1: because that's my fun joy of being a prepper is

3032
02:46:52,280 --> 02:46:54,840
Speaker 1: going to Twitter and being like, here's what I know

3033
02:46:54,959 --> 02:46:58,840
Speaker 1: about that thing. You know, whenever a thing happens while

3034
02:46:58,920 --> 02:47:02,920
Speaker 1: like safe on my mountain top and drinking out of

3035
02:47:02,959 --> 02:47:07,800
Speaker 1: my well, which whatever has its own problems, I'll take

3036
02:47:07,840 --> 02:47:11,080
Speaker 1: those problems anyway, Okay. So so I post about this

3037
02:47:11,160 --> 02:47:13,200
Speaker 1: and then I pointed out that like, overall, there's like

3038
02:47:13,240 --> 02:47:15,080
Speaker 1: the different filters that you can have her home, and

3039
02:47:15,160 --> 02:47:17,040
Speaker 1: then the only one that seems to sort of do

3040
02:47:17,200 --> 02:47:21,160
Speaker 1: it all is the Burkey. It's this very expensive brand.

3041
02:47:21,240 --> 02:47:23,600
Speaker 1: You've probably seen them in your hippie friend's house, or

3042
02:47:23,640 --> 02:47:25,960
Speaker 1: you're the hippie and there's one in your house, there's

3043
02:47:25,959 --> 02:47:29,560
Speaker 1: one in my house. And it's a big silver canister

3044
02:47:29,760 --> 02:47:31,520
Speaker 1: that looks like it comes from the fifties or whatever,

3045
02:47:32,160 --> 02:47:36,520
Speaker 1: and and it's a filter, and it's somehow filters more

3046
02:47:36,560 --> 02:47:38,480
Speaker 1: than everything else. And the way that it does that

3047
02:47:38,680 --> 02:47:47,080
Speaker 1: is by lying or rather, I don't know what using

3048
02:47:48,000 --> 02:47:50,160
Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, the way it does it is it

3049
02:47:50,320 --> 02:47:52,640
Speaker 1: says it can do these things, and it is not

3050
02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:57,119
Speaker 1: certified to the what is it a NSF slash ANCI

3051
02:47:57,280 --> 02:48:01,560
Speaker 1: standard that all of your other filters are testing themselves too.

3052
02:48:01,600 --> 02:48:07,040
Speaker 1: So everyone else is saying we have passed this following certification,

3053
02:48:07,680 --> 02:48:10,320
Speaker 1: and Burkey is saying, oh, we tested, and it does

3054
02:48:10,360 --> 02:48:13,560
Speaker 1: all the stuff. All the other ones probably do kind

3055
02:48:13,640 --> 02:48:15,600
Speaker 1: of all the stuff too, but the only things that

3056
02:48:15,640 --> 02:48:18,280
Speaker 1: they're actually certified to do or what they say they do.

3057
02:48:18,680 --> 02:48:22,400
Speaker 1: And so Burkey basically charges a mint in exchange for

3058
02:48:24,120 --> 02:48:28,320
Speaker 1: using their own testing standards instead of the testing standards

3059
02:48:28,360 --> 02:48:33,320
Speaker 1: of other people independent testers. Google Burkey wire cutter and

3060
02:48:33,360 --> 02:48:36,200
Speaker 1: you'll find a good article that where people conducted a

3061
02:48:36,240 --> 02:48:39,800
Speaker 1: bunch of tests. And it's a shame because it would

3062
02:48:39,840 --> 02:48:41,240
Speaker 1: be nice to have this sort of all in one

3063
02:48:41,280 --> 02:48:43,320
Speaker 1: filter because it's very annoying. If you want to filter

3064
02:48:43,440 --> 02:48:45,880
Speaker 1: something out of your water, you have to go, Okay,

3065
02:48:45,959 --> 02:48:47,520
Speaker 1: what's in my water that I don't want? And then

3066
02:48:47,520 --> 02:48:49,040
Speaker 1: you have to go find the filter for that, and

3067
02:48:49,120 --> 02:48:50,520
Speaker 1: it's not going to be the same as the other filter.

3068
02:48:50,600 --> 02:48:52,880
Speaker 1: Is not gonna be same as the other filter. Like, oh,

3069
02:48:53,000 --> 02:48:54,480
Speaker 1: you live some more leading your pipes. You can't buy

3070
02:48:54,480 --> 02:48:56,440
Speaker 1: a regular Britta. You got to buy the lead pipe

3071
02:48:56,480 --> 02:49:02,240
Speaker 1: Montreal special Britta, you know, and like, you know you

3072
02:49:02,280 --> 02:49:05,000
Speaker 1: want an undersinc water filter, Well do you want this

3073
02:49:05,080 --> 02:49:07,160
Speaker 1: one or this one or this one? It would be

3074
02:49:07,240 --> 02:49:13,280
Speaker 1: nice if there was a yeah, like buy once, cry once, Yeah, yeah,

3075
02:49:13,440 --> 02:49:16,800
Speaker 1: go to Amazon two days later you're fine. Kind of situation. Yeah,

3076
02:49:17,280 --> 02:49:21,120
Speaker 1: but there isn't one new I was going to go over,

3077
02:49:21,360 --> 02:49:23,840
Speaker 1: like just in case people are curious more about the

3078
02:49:23,879 --> 02:49:27,720
Speaker 1: back country stuff. I guess I have three different levels

3079
02:49:27,760 --> 02:49:29,879
Speaker 1: of stuff that I use for back country. If I'm

3080
02:49:29,920 --> 02:49:31,480
Speaker 1: just going out and I don't think I'm going to

3081
02:49:31,560 --> 02:49:35,720
Speaker 1: filter water, I just take a stainless steel single wall

3082
02:49:35,800 --> 02:49:41,560
Speaker 1: water bottle and some iodine or another chemical purifier. I

3083
02:49:41,600 --> 02:49:43,000
Speaker 1: didn't works really well. But you don't want to be

3084
02:49:43,080 --> 02:49:44,840
Speaker 1: using it long term, it's not good for you long

3085
02:49:44,920 --> 02:49:47,360
Speaker 1: term for your thyroid, and then I'll filter it through

3086
02:49:47,440 --> 02:49:49,200
Speaker 1: like a buff or a kaffir or something to get

3087
02:49:49,200 --> 02:49:52,920
Speaker 1: the tability out and use that. If it's a trip

3088
02:49:52,959 --> 02:49:55,280
Speaker 1: where I'm just in the backcountry in America, I take

3089
02:49:55,800 --> 02:50:00,240
Speaker 1: a squeezy filteration system Catadine bee Free is the one

3090
02:50:00,240 --> 02:50:02,960
Speaker 1: I tend to use. And you want to have a

3091
02:50:03,040 --> 02:50:05,160
Speaker 1: dirty bag and a clean bottle, right, so you're squeezing

3092
02:50:05,240 --> 02:50:08,320
Speaker 1: from the dirty water into the clean water. And then

3093
02:50:08,360 --> 02:50:11,000
Speaker 1: if I'm going somewhere for work where there are virus

3094
02:50:11,200 --> 02:50:13,360
Speaker 1: risks and where it might be like what you'd call

3095
02:50:13,400 --> 02:50:15,119
Speaker 1: like a non permissive environment, at place where you don't

3096
02:50:15,120 --> 02:50:16,720
Speaker 1: want to hang around near a water source for a

3097
02:50:16,760 --> 02:50:19,520
Speaker 1: long time because it's dangerous. I have this thing called

3098
02:50:19,520 --> 02:50:23,080
Speaker 1: an MSR Guardian, which is not cheap, and you probably

3099
02:50:23,080 --> 02:50:24,800
Speaker 1: don't need it for what you're doing, but if you

3100
02:50:25,040 --> 02:50:27,080
Speaker 1: are concerned about viruses, it has a dirty bag and

3101
02:50:27,120 --> 02:50:28,880
Speaker 1: a clean bag, and it's a hang filter, so you

3102
02:50:28,920 --> 02:50:31,560
Speaker 1: can fill up three liters of water, bugger off to

3103
02:50:31,600 --> 02:50:34,240
Speaker 1: somewhere safe, hang it up, and let that filter from

3104
02:50:34,240 --> 02:50:37,400
Speaker 1: the dirty bag into the clean bag, and then you're

3105
02:50:37,440 --> 02:50:40,280
Speaker 1: not standing by the water filtering or pumping. I'm a

3106
02:50:40,480 --> 02:50:43,760
Speaker 1: few seconds a pretty fettied. Situations have been fine. And

3107
02:50:43,840 --> 02:50:45,560
Speaker 1: I'll say the thing that I used off grid as

3108
02:50:45,560 --> 02:50:49,920
Speaker 1: they used a sawyer, just a regular sawyer water filter.

3109
02:50:50,040 --> 02:50:51,960
Speaker 1: They're like thirty bucks. And I attached it to a

3110
02:50:52,000 --> 02:50:54,720
Speaker 1: five gallon bucket with some hoss and then I gravity

3111
02:50:54,760 --> 02:50:56,880
Speaker 1: fed it and I just left it drip in from

3112
02:50:56,920 --> 02:50:58,760
Speaker 1: one five gallon bucket to another. And that's for a

3113
02:50:58,840 --> 02:51:02,720
Speaker 1: stationary bas in the United States. That worked for me. Yeah,

3114
02:51:02,840 --> 02:51:05,320
Speaker 1: I can see that working really well, Margaret. Do you

3115
02:51:05,360 --> 02:51:07,160
Speaker 1: want to think where can people learn more about prepping?

3116
02:51:07,200 --> 02:51:09,040
Speaker 1: Would there be a podcast they could listen to? You

3117
02:51:09,120 --> 02:51:11,520
Speaker 1: mean one that just went weekly, Live Like the World

3118
02:51:11,640 --> 02:51:13,560
Speaker 1: Is Dying. I am one of the hosts of Live

3119
02:51:13,640 --> 02:51:15,760
Speaker 1: Like the World is Dying. The reason it went weekly

3120
02:51:15,879 --> 02:51:17,880
Speaker 1: is now there's more hosts and you can listen to

3121
02:51:17,959 --> 02:51:21,200
Speaker 1: that wherever. You listen to podcasts every Friday, and soon

3122
02:51:21,280 --> 02:51:22,800
Speaker 1: you'll be able to hear James on it. But I

3123
02:51:22,879 --> 02:51:26,480
Speaker 1: don't know when you just have to listen to all

3124
02:51:26,480 --> 02:51:28,880
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, where can people see you gloating on

3125
02:51:28,920 --> 02:51:32,360
Speaker 1: Twitter from your mountaintop? Magpie killed Joy until I finally

3126
02:51:32,440 --> 02:51:36,320
Speaker 1: get sick of Twitter, which is increasingly likely every single day.

3127
02:51:37,120 --> 02:51:39,800
Speaker 1: Hell so, yeah, yeah, thank you very much, Margaret, thanks

3128
02:51:39,800 --> 02:51:42,959
Speaker 1: for having me informative. You are welcome, all right, Ali,

3129
02:51:43,000 --> 02:52:02,240
Speaker 1: everyone maybe and welcome. So it could happen here with

3130
02:52:02,600 --> 02:52:06,160
Speaker 1: me Andrew of the YouTube channel andrewism and today I'm

3131
02:52:06,240 --> 02:52:12,560
Speaker 1: joined by Garrison is here, greetings, and Mia also here. Hello.

3132
02:52:13,240 --> 02:52:16,600
Speaker 1: And I wanted to talk about the idea of the

3133
02:52:16,680 --> 02:52:21,080
Speaker 1: noble savage. It's something that people have occasionally brought up

3134
02:52:21,240 --> 02:52:25,880
Speaker 1: in my common section when I discuss really anything related

3135
02:52:26,000 --> 02:52:32,320
Speaker 1: to m Maybe there's something to learn, something to be

3136
02:52:32,440 --> 02:52:39,039
Speaker 1: learned from the Indigenous people of pre colonial period. There's

3137
02:52:39,040 --> 02:52:46,879
Speaker 1: often this accusation levied against any sort of positive representation

3138
02:52:47,280 --> 02:52:52,080
Speaker 1: of their society, any sort of generous reading of their society,

3139
02:52:52,920 --> 02:52:56,560
Speaker 1: as something to be scoffed at, as something to be ridicule,

3140
02:52:56,600 --> 02:53:00,840
Speaker 1: as something to be seen as perpetually and this troope

3141
02:53:01,400 --> 02:53:07,520
Speaker 1: of the noble savage. And so I was in some

3142
02:53:07,640 --> 02:53:09,760
Speaker 1: sort of I feel I was in sort of am

3143
02:53:10,840 --> 02:53:12,480
Speaker 1: I got into a sort of defense mood, and I

3144
02:53:12,640 --> 02:53:15,560
Speaker 1: was like, well, I really don't want to do that, right,

3145
02:53:15,640 --> 02:53:18,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to want to create this caricature of

3146
02:53:18,800 --> 02:53:24,320
Speaker 1: indigenous peoples in my videos that you know, Forster represents

3147
02:53:24,840 --> 02:53:28,240
Speaker 1: all their complexities and stuff. Obviously, every group throughout history

3148
02:53:28,280 --> 02:53:32,080
Speaker 1: has had many layers to them. And then in reading

3149
02:53:32,560 --> 02:53:35,680
Speaker 1: to one of Everything by David Grieber and David wen

3150
02:53:35,720 --> 02:53:40,600
Speaker 1: Grew ended up stumbling upon even further information on the subject.

3151
02:53:40,640 --> 02:53:42,279
Speaker 1: And so that's something that I want to talk about.

3152
02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:45,280
Speaker 1: You know, this idea where the idea of the noble

3153
02:53:45,320 --> 02:53:48,960
Speaker 1: savage came from how it's used, and I think how

3154
02:53:49,040 --> 02:53:54,879
Speaker 1: we should be approaching it today. But before I even

3155
02:53:55,040 --> 02:53:58,040
Speaker 1: get into all of that, are all familiar with this

3156
02:53:58,959 --> 02:54:03,160
Speaker 1: term and how it's used. Yeah, I mean I think

3157
02:54:03,520 --> 02:54:06,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. It is interesting in the way that

3158
02:54:06,520 --> 02:54:09,720
Speaker 1: it kind of like, I don't know, there was kind

3159
02:54:09,720 --> 02:54:13,360
Speaker 1: of this shift of it being uses a term to

3160
02:54:13,480 --> 02:54:17,800
Speaker 1: critique sort of like racist white fantasy to being a

3161
02:54:18,000 --> 02:54:20,119
Speaker 1: term that's used to sort of bludge at anytime anyone

3162
02:54:20,920 --> 02:54:24,160
Speaker 1: like has the temerity to suggest anything in another society

3163
02:54:24,240 --> 02:54:27,360
Speaker 1: than this one could have possibly have been better, which

3164
02:54:27,440 --> 02:54:29,480
Speaker 1: is a kind of grim shift I think in a

3165
02:54:29,520 --> 02:54:32,160
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and I think has done a lot

3166
02:54:32,160 --> 02:54:36,000
Speaker 1: of political damage by people who sort of don't quite

3167
02:54:36,160 --> 02:54:41,200
Speaker 1: understand what was going on. Yeah, and that is a

3168
02:54:41,280 --> 02:54:44,760
Speaker 1: shift that I noticed as well, and for a while

3169
02:54:44,879 --> 02:54:49,640
Speaker 1: I thought that was really how the term was originally

3170
02:54:49,720 --> 02:54:53,280
Speaker 1: meant to be applied. I mean we see it all

3171
02:54:53,320 --> 02:54:58,680
Speaker 1: over discussions of anthropology and philosophy and literature, which it

3172
02:54:58,720 --> 02:55:01,240
Speaker 1: could be extended to media as a whole. Right, you

3173
02:55:01,320 --> 02:55:04,600
Speaker 1: have this sort of stock character of the noble savage person.

3174
02:55:04,680 --> 02:55:11,400
Speaker 1: It's uncorrupted by civilization. Something that's a person that symbolizes

3175
02:55:11,480 --> 02:55:15,560
Speaker 1: this sort of any goodness and moral superiority, living in

3176
02:55:15,800 --> 02:55:19,600
Speaker 1: harmony with nature that we don't have access to because

3177
02:55:19,760 --> 02:55:23,520
Speaker 1: we've been corrupted by the influences of civilization. Right, it's

3178
02:55:23,520 --> 02:55:28,840
Speaker 1: this idealized concept of an uncivilized or sort of base

3179
02:55:29,440 --> 02:55:36,360
Speaker 1: man right or rather person, And I mean we see

3180
02:55:36,400 --> 02:55:39,000
Speaker 1: it a lot in rights discourse, being used as a

3181
02:55:39,080 --> 02:55:42,920
Speaker 1: tomb of derision. For example, a right being Australian politician

3182
02:55:43,080 --> 02:55:48,160
Speaker 1: named Dennis Jensen once told Parliament that the Australian government

3183
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:51,680
Speaker 1: should not be funding people to live a noble savage

3184
02:55:51,760 --> 02:56:01,480
Speaker 1: lifestyle in remote indigenous communities. Yeah, christ and it's used

3185
02:56:01,520 --> 02:56:05,280
Speaker 1: to mock the so called backwards lifestyles of Indigenous people

3186
02:56:05,800 --> 02:56:12,600
Speaker 1: and really try to reinforce this white supremacist idea of

3187
02:56:12,800 --> 02:56:17,400
Speaker 1: their inferiority or their backwardness, their regressiveness, whatever the case

3188
02:56:17,480 --> 02:56:20,760
Speaker 1: may be. And then on the other side, in leftist

3189
02:56:20,760 --> 02:56:23,480
Speaker 1: political discourse, you also see it being used as a

3190
02:56:23,520 --> 02:56:27,280
Speaker 1: tomb of derision. So in both cases it's being used

3191
02:56:28,240 --> 02:56:31,560
Speaker 1: as a term of derision without really a good grasp

3192
02:56:31,800 --> 02:56:36,240
Speaker 1: of what the term is where it came from. For example,

3193
02:56:36,320 --> 02:56:40,480
Speaker 1: anarcho primitivists are criticized for upholding this troope, and of

3194
02:56:40,560 --> 02:56:44,160
Speaker 1: course leftists criticize a leftist when fallen for the troope

3195
02:56:44,440 --> 02:56:48,400
Speaker 1: for fallen for the troope. When describing indigenous histories, spiritualities,

3196
02:56:48,440 --> 02:56:52,760
Speaker 1: and social ecologies, it seems like you can't even bring

3197
02:56:52,920 --> 02:57:00,040
Speaker 1: up any sort of reciprocal gift economy based relationship of

3198
02:57:00,120 --> 02:57:03,800
Speaker 1: the land that indigenous group might have had without somebody saying, oh, well,

3199
02:57:03,879 --> 02:57:07,640
Speaker 1: did you know that indigenous people also perpetuated extinctions and

3200
02:57:07,920 --> 02:57:13,720
Speaker 1: genocides and this than the other. So I really don't

3201
02:57:13,760 --> 02:57:15,800
Speaker 1: think that any time you learn from a society that

3202
02:57:15,879 --> 02:57:18,360
Speaker 1: predates your own and may still persist, that you're doing

3203
02:57:18,400 --> 02:57:25,440
Speaker 1: a noble savage But it is something that I had

3204
02:57:25,520 --> 02:57:29,120
Speaker 1: become very conscious of in my approach to any sort

3205
02:57:29,160 --> 02:57:31,800
Speaker 1: of discussion. I feel like it sort of haunts the

3206
02:57:31,920 --> 02:57:36,280
Speaker 1: discourse among other sort of stock characters and troops that

3207
02:57:37,080 --> 02:57:44,959
Speaker 1: permeate in or political conversations within media. The troope has,

3208
02:57:45,080 --> 02:57:50,440
Speaker 1: you know, come in and out of fashion. But the

3209
02:57:50,560 --> 02:57:54,520
Speaker 1: two main forms that it appears in is one that

3210
02:57:55,879 --> 02:57:59,800
Speaker 1: life is strenuous, a life of quote and quote primitive

3211
02:58:00,520 --> 02:58:05,040
Speaker 1: is strenuous, and therefore this savage is nobody, brave, hard work,

3212
02:58:05,120 --> 02:58:08,280
Speaker 1: and an honorable And then you have this other depiction,

3213
02:58:08,879 --> 02:58:13,360
Speaker 1: which is that the savage and I can it pains

3214
02:58:13,400 --> 02:58:16,520
Speaker 1: me to use the term every time, but the savage

3215
02:58:16,840 --> 02:58:19,760
Speaker 1: is not greedy and just as now a teat for luxury.

3216
02:58:19,840 --> 02:58:23,840
Speaker 1: So might you see it in instant media. It's been

3217
02:58:23,879 --> 02:58:27,039
Speaker 1: a long time since I've watched The Road to Eldorado,

3218
02:58:28,360 --> 02:58:32,600
Speaker 1: but if I recall, there is this sort of idea

3219
02:58:32,720 --> 02:58:36,560
Speaker 1: within the movie that they're so used to this the

3220
02:58:36,680 --> 02:58:39,959
Speaker 1: decadence and stuff of gold and whatnot, that they don't

3221
02:58:39,959 --> 02:58:43,400
Speaker 1: consider it as valuable, they considered wruthless. So there's this

3222
02:58:43,760 --> 02:58:47,360
Speaker 1: aspect of the Troope that treats materials traditionally considered valuable

3223
02:58:48,480 --> 02:58:51,640
Speaker 1: to be something to be sort of shrugged off or flaunted.

3224
02:58:52,879 --> 02:58:59,320
Speaker 1: And then of course because what is philosophy, what is

3225
02:59:01,160 --> 02:59:10,640
Speaker 1: really our ontology without some sort of reference to the

3226
02:59:10,760 --> 02:59:15,720
Speaker 1: story is embedded within the Christian cannon, right there is

3227
02:59:15,760 --> 02:59:18,840
Speaker 1: this sort of interpretation of the story of the God

3228
02:59:18,959 --> 02:59:22,920
Speaker 1: of Eden as this as Adam and Eve and these

3229
02:59:23,080 --> 02:59:27,520
Speaker 1: noble savages that live in this uncorrupted innocence and harmony

3230
02:59:27,600 --> 02:59:30,840
Speaker 1: with nature, and then they have to they partaken this

3231
02:59:30,959 --> 02:59:33,760
Speaker 1: fruit from the tree of knowledge or you know, they

3232
02:59:33,840 --> 02:59:38,200
Speaker 1: become quote unquote civilized, and then they're punished by having

3233
02:59:38,280 --> 02:59:43,960
Speaker 1: to engage in agriculture and have to labor over the

3234
02:59:44,040 --> 02:59:47,560
Speaker 1: land instead of living in harmony with it. Just one

3235
02:59:48,600 --> 02:59:52,360
Speaker 1: interpretation of that story is that it's a metaphor for

3236
02:59:52,440 --> 02:59:56,360
Speaker 1: the dawn of agriculture and the god have eaten as

3237
02:59:56,360 --> 03:00:01,320
Speaker 1: a sort of nostalgic take. Even later on, when Europeans

3238
03:00:01,360 --> 03:00:06,640
Speaker 1: first encountered hunter gatherer communities in the Americas, they compared

3239
03:00:06,680 --> 03:00:09,440
Speaker 1: them to being living and they're sort of eaton. And

3240
03:00:09,760 --> 03:00:16,200
Speaker 1: today you still find comparisons to eat on used to

3241
03:00:16,320 --> 03:00:22,200
Speaker 1: describe certain hunter gather societies. And of course, as this

3242
03:00:22,360 --> 03:00:27,800
Speaker 1: is quite topical, you often see this criticism of noble

3243
03:00:27,879 --> 03:00:31,840
Speaker 1: savage and whatever being lefted against Avatar, as in the

3244
03:00:31,959 --> 03:00:35,160
Speaker 1: Blue People, not the not the Last Day of Bender,

3245
03:00:36,760 --> 03:00:39,160
Speaker 1: because they have this sort of oh we are these

3246
03:00:39,360 --> 03:00:43,560
Speaker 1: utterly perfect, you know, peace loving space hippies or in

3247
03:00:43,680 --> 03:00:49,040
Speaker 1: harmony with nature, chilling vibing, we literally have sex with

3248
03:00:49,200 --> 03:00:54,640
Speaker 1: trees kind of vibe. Um. And I haven't seen the

3249
03:00:54,760 --> 03:00:56,760
Speaker 1: second movie in the series. I only saw the first,

3250
03:00:57,480 --> 03:01:00,760
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be surprised if that trend and continues.

3251
03:01:02,240 --> 03:01:05,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, have you all seen either both of them.

3252
03:01:05,520 --> 03:01:07,720
Speaker 1: I saw the first one and I was like, I, no,

3253
03:01:08,200 --> 03:01:10,320
Speaker 1: nothing on earth can can call me to see the

3254
03:01:10,400 --> 03:01:16,039
Speaker 1: second one. So I have no idea how you or not? Yeah,

3255
03:01:16,760 --> 03:01:19,920
Speaker 1: and I mean the conspt the noble savage. It has

3256
03:01:20,240 --> 03:01:23,800
Speaker 1: its roots a lot further back than European encounters with

3257
03:01:23,920 --> 03:01:28,600
Speaker 1: Native Americans, Right, that's sort of the intellectual lineage of

3258
03:01:28,959 --> 03:01:31,800
Speaker 1: the concept could actually be traced back to ancient Greece.

3259
03:01:33,000 --> 03:01:34,640
Speaker 1: So if you really want to reach you could say

3260
03:01:34,720 --> 03:01:38,119
Speaker 1: that even back in the Acadia and epic of Gilgamesh,

3261
03:01:38,760 --> 03:01:43,840
Speaker 1: that Akudo as a sort of bushman was a kind

3262
03:01:43,879 --> 03:01:49,120
Speaker 1: of depiction of that contract between hunter gatherer societies and

3263
03:01:49,480 --> 03:01:53,960
Speaker 1: agricultural societies, a Gilgamesh representing, of course, you know, civilization,

3264
03:01:55,240 --> 03:01:59,920
Speaker 1: but if he starts in from ancient Greece, we could

3265
03:02:00,080 --> 03:02:05,000
Speaker 1: say you're seeing Homer and Pliny and Xenophon all idealizing

3266
03:02:05,720 --> 03:02:09,760
Speaker 1: the Arcadians and other groups, whether they were real or not.

3267
03:02:10,520 --> 03:02:16,120
Speaker 1: And then later on in Rome you find Tacitus, for example,

3268
03:02:16,600 --> 03:02:20,520
Speaker 1: writing of the noble Germanic and Caledonian tribes in contrast

3269
03:02:20,560 --> 03:02:23,520
Speaker 1: with his view of Roman society as this sort of

3270
03:02:23,600 --> 03:02:30,920
Speaker 1: corrupt and decadent place. Even wrote speeches like he practically

3271
03:02:30,959 --> 03:02:35,720
Speaker 1: wrote fan fiction about liberty and honor for his sort

3272
03:02:35,760 --> 03:02:42,520
Speaker 1: of caricatures of these people. Other writers would also treat

3273
03:02:42,920 --> 03:02:47,039
Speaker 1: the Scythians comparably, You've seen in the works of Horace

3274
03:02:47,160 --> 03:02:52,600
Speaker 1: and Futil and Ovid. And then further on, you know,

3275
03:02:52,640 --> 03:03:00,320
Speaker 1: in the twelfth century the polymath even to Fail wrote

3276
03:03:00,480 --> 03:03:05,920
Speaker 1: in his novel The Living Son of the Vigilant this

3277
03:03:06,200 --> 03:03:10,840
Speaker 1: idea of this sort of stripped down back to the

3278
03:03:11,000 --> 03:03:17,720
Speaker 1: roots earthy wild man who is isolated from society and

3279
03:03:18,200 --> 03:03:21,520
Speaker 1: has a series of trials and tribulations that lead him

3280
03:03:21,560 --> 03:03:25,800
Speaker 1: to knowledge of Allah by living this life and harmony

3281
03:03:25,879 --> 03:03:33,160
Speaker 1: with Mother Nature, basically theorizing this idea that people can

3282
03:03:33,280 --> 03:03:37,760
Speaker 1: find can find their way to God just by being

3283
03:03:37,840 --> 03:03:43,760
Speaker 1: exposed to nature, finding a sort of a theological understanding

3284
03:03:43,920 --> 03:03:47,200
Speaker 1: by understanding the natural world. All of this is sort

3285
03:03:47,200 --> 03:03:50,560
Speaker 1: of a preamble to really what most people point to

3286
03:03:50,800 --> 03:03:54,080
Speaker 1: as the origins of the concept, the modern myth of

3287
03:03:54,160 --> 03:03:59,720
Speaker 1: the noble savage. It's most usually attributed to eighteenth century Enlightenment.

3288
03:03:59,760 --> 03:04:03,800
Speaker 1: For plosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau, and he believed the original

3289
03:04:03,920 --> 03:04:07,800
Speaker 1: man was somebody who was free from sin, appetite, or

3290
03:04:07,959 --> 03:04:11,520
Speaker 1: the concept of right and wrong, and those deemed savages

3291
03:04:12,280 --> 03:04:15,040
Speaker 1: were not brutal, but noble, or at least this is

3292
03:04:15,080 --> 03:04:18,840
Speaker 1: how the story goes. The idea can also be found

3293
03:04:19,040 --> 03:04:22,680
Speaker 1: in theology the founder of the Methodist Church, for example,

3294
03:04:22,800 --> 03:04:30,280
Speaker 1: John Wesley. Again, just like the Andalusian novel writer, believe

3295
03:04:30,400 --> 03:04:34,600
Speaker 1: that you know, there's this idea of man in the

3296
03:04:34,720 --> 03:04:40,800
Speaker 1: beginning at the roots connected with nature, is not as corrupted,

3297
03:04:42,000 --> 03:04:46,040
Speaker 1: is more connected with nature and with God, compared to

3298
03:04:47,040 --> 03:04:50,000
Speaker 1: the so called de generous he found in eighteenth century society,

3299
03:04:50,520 --> 03:04:56,400
Speaker 1: compared to the disease and materialism seeing throughout the world.

3300
03:04:57,480 --> 03:05:02,920
Speaker 1: David Grieber, in one of his recent posthumous works, Pirate Enlightenment,

3301
03:05:04,520 --> 03:05:06,119
Speaker 1: I don't know. In a lot of his other works,

3302
03:05:06,160 --> 03:05:08,840
Speaker 1: as well. He sort of grapples with this idea of

3303
03:05:09,040 --> 03:05:15,760
Speaker 1: the Enlightenment, right, and how flawed our understanding of the

3304
03:05:15,920 --> 03:05:19,920
Speaker 1: Enlictenment is. How our approach the Enlightenment as a sort

3305
03:05:20,000 --> 03:05:25,039
Speaker 1: of era unique to Europe or this era centered upon

3306
03:05:25,160 --> 03:05:30,680
Speaker 1: Europe is flawed in its approach because it leaves out

3307
03:05:31,120 --> 03:05:36,000
Speaker 1: the realities of the Enlictenment occurred as a result of

3308
03:05:36,160 --> 03:05:39,959
Speaker 1: Europeans interactions and exposure to the rest of the world.

3309
03:05:41,200 --> 03:05:48,800
Speaker 1: You had these European explorers and colonizers and scientists venturing out, trading,

3310
03:05:49,000 --> 03:05:53,400
Speaker 1: interacting with these different groups of people, hearing their ideas

3311
03:05:53,560 --> 03:05:56,720
Speaker 1: about things, and then going back and writing best best

3312
03:05:56,760 --> 03:06:01,720
Speaker 1: selling books about these societies and how they believe and

3313
03:06:02,520 --> 03:06:08,279
Speaker 1: what they think and how they organize their society. One chronicler,

3314
03:06:08,360 --> 03:06:14,519
Speaker 1: for example, noted that among the Indians or Native Americans,

3315
03:06:15,040 --> 03:06:17,840
Speaker 1: that land belonged to all, just like the sun and water,

3316
03:06:18,640 --> 03:06:21,080
Speaker 1: mine and thine. The seeds of all evils do not

3317
03:06:21,240 --> 03:06:24,480
Speaker 1: exist for those people. They live in a golden age

3318
03:06:24,480 --> 03:06:27,440
Speaker 1: and open gardens, thought, laws or books thout judges, and

3319
03:06:27,560 --> 03:06:33,640
Speaker 1: they naturally follow goodness. Rousseau, Thomas Moore and others also

3320
03:06:33,879 --> 03:06:40,039
Speaker 1: idealized the naked savages as innocent of sin. Another one

3321
03:06:40,120 --> 03:06:43,520
Speaker 1: wrote about how they are equal in every respect and

3322
03:06:43,640 --> 03:06:46,080
Speaker 1: so in how many of their surroundings they all live

3323
03:06:46,200 --> 03:06:50,439
Speaker 1: justly and in conformity with the laws of nature. Basically

3324
03:06:51,760 --> 03:06:53,879
Speaker 1: we have we just found a whole continent of people

3325
03:06:54,000 --> 03:06:57,480
Speaker 1: basically lived in a garden of da But then this

3326
03:06:57,760 --> 03:07:04,600
Speaker 1: concept of ecological nobility that is perpetuated is of course flawed.

3327
03:07:04,720 --> 03:07:08,400
Speaker 1: I mean, like I mentioned earlier, there were cases of

3328
03:07:08,640 --> 03:07:14,920
Speaker 1: overexploitation and damage done to the environment. And yet we

3329
03:07:15,120 --> 03:07:21,880
Speaker 1: also find a lot of indigenous groups living in compatibility

3330
03:07:21,879 --> 03:07:25,080
Speaker 1: of the ecological limitations of their home area, getting familiar

3331
03:07:25,200 --> 03:07:28,040
Speaker 1: with the lands that they live on and what it

3332
03:07:28,160 --> 03:07:33,640
Speaker 1: takes to preserve them for the next generations. A lot

3333
03:07:33,720 --> 03:07:37,000
Speaker 1: of what is seen as the sort of virgin landscape

3334
03:07:37,800 --> 03:07:41,880
Speaker 1: was profoundly shaped by the controlled boons, the horticulture, the

3335
03:07:42,000 --> 03:07:52,240
Speaker 1: hooden and other activities done by indigenous groups throughout the Americas,

3336
03:07:52,520 --> 03:07:55,240
Speaker 1: for example, in the case of the Amazon rainforest, and

3337
03:07:55,520 --> 03:07:59,320
Speaker 1: in Australia as another case where the controlled boons really

3338
03:07:59,400 --> 03:08:06,360
Speaker 1: shaped that landscape over thousands and thousands of years. To

3339
03:08:06,480 --> 03:08:08,920
Speaker 1: this day, you know, the methods used by indigenous peoples

3340
03:08:09,800 --> 03:08:12,240
Speaker 1: have been found to be you know, superior to that

3341
03:08:12,400 --> 03:08:14,320
Speaker 1: was used by non indigenous peoples living in the same

3342
03:08:14,360 --> 03:08:19,480
Speaker 1: habitat methods like poly cropping techniques, to enhanced soil fertility,

3343
03:08:20,160 --> 03:08:25,879
Speaker 1: sustainable harvesting, and of course there are these culturally encoded

3344
03:08:26,040 --> 03:08:30,560
Speaker 1: morays that are you know, placed in these communities that

3345
03:08:30,720 --> 03:08:36,840
Speaker 1: helped result in the preservation of these resources. Then he

3346
03:08:36,920 --> 03:08:40,959
Speaker 1: also had account for the fact that no culture has stagnant.

3347
03:08:41,040 --> 03:08:45,640
Speaker 1: Every culture changes over time, and as a result of

3348
03:08:47,200 --> 03:08:52,959
Speaker 1: the capitalist market economy, there is this pressure to overexploit

3349
03:08:53,040 --> 03:08:56,160
Speaker 1: the land for the sake of profit. You know, a

3350
03:08:56,240 --> 03:09:02,880
Speaker 1: lot of way of these documented patterns of land cultivation

3351
03:09:03,120 --> 03:09:09,520
Speaker 1: and land preservation are found is usually in the outskirts

3352
03:09:10,520 --> 03:09:15,720
Speaker 1: and the margins of the capitalist market economy. Such practices

3353
03:09:15,760 --> 03:09:21,040
Speaker 1: can be more difficult to find right in the belly

3354
03:09:21,080 --> 03:09:28,199
Speaker 1: of the beast. For example, the rappapa in western Venezuela,

3355
03:09:29,040 --> 03:09:33,680
Speaker 1: they were traditionally mobile over an extensive area plants and food,

3356
03:09:33,800 --> 03:09:36,360
Speaker 1: search and game, and now they are stationary. Now they

3357
03:09:36,400 --> 03:09:39,160
Speaker 1: are settled, and now they sort of are forced to

3358
03:09:39,280 --> 03:09:45,240
Speaker 1: adopt a different lifestyle in response to their new material conditions.

3359
03:09:46,440 --> 03:09:51,520
Speaker 1: When you had that lesser population density and greater freedom

3360
03:09:51,600 --> 03:09:56,920
Speaker 1: to roame. It was easier to both satisfy subsistence needs

3361
03:09:57,440 --> 03:10:05,680
Speaker 1: and also maintain the health and vitality of the ecosystem

3362
03:10:05,879 --> 03:10:09,880
Speaker 1: over an extended period of time. But now that sill

3363
03:10:10,000 --> 03:10:15,720
Speaker 1: pluses are needed, now that agriculture has been reduced to

3364
03:10:16,080 --> 03:10:19,320
Speaker 1: a very small portion of the population, and that those

3365
03:10:19,400 --> 03:10:22,920
Speaker 1: techniques are now expected to be more intensive in order

3366
03:10:22,920 --> 03:10:26,320
Speaker 1: to keep up with the demands, those lifestyles and those

3367
03:10:27,040 --> 03:10:33,880
Speaker 1: cultural moras and those practices have had to change. But

3368
03:10:34,480 --> 03:10:37,600
Speaker 1: back to the idea of the noble savage right, and

3369
03:10:38,040 --> 03:10:42,000
Speaker 1: particularly drilling into this idea of the noble aspect of

3370
03:10:42,120 --> 03:10:45,280
Speaker 1: it right, because there's some confusion, as Groupate points out,

3371
03:10:45,600 --> 03:10:50,520
Speaker 1: between these two meanings associated with the word nobility. You

3372
03:10:50,560 --> 03:10:53,160
Speaker 1: could say someone is noble in this sense that they

3373
03:10:53,280 --> 03:11:00,720
Speaker 1: are you know, moral good, exemplary in their heavia and

3374
03:11:00,760 --> 03:11:08,160
Speaker 1: their exequette in their ethical standards. But you could say

3375
03:11:08,280 --> 03:11:11,720
Speaker 1: somebody is noble in the sense they have this position

3376
03:11:13,080 --> 03:11:17,720
Speaker 1: in a sort of a class system, a hereditary position

3377
03:11:18,000 --> 03:11:23,160
Speaker 1: in a class system, and elevated economic status. Rousseau didn't

3378
03:11:23,160 --> 03:11:25,600
Speaker 1: come up with the phrase, and in fact he never

3379
03:11:25,800 --> 03:11:34,520
Speaker 1: used in his writings. What terre ellingson historian discovered, or

3380
03:11:34,680 --> 03:11:37,160
Speaker 1: rather explored in his book The Myth of the Noble

3381
03:11:37,240 --> 03:11:40,879
Speaker 1: Savage is that the term was coined over a century

3382
03:11:40,959 --> 03:11:44,800
Speaker 1: before Russo's birth by a guy named by a French

3383
03:11:44,959 --> 03:11:51,240
Speaker 1: lawyer ethnographer named marcol Escarboo. And Escarboo described indigenous peoples

3384
03:11:51,320 --> 03:11:54,960
Speaker 1: as truly noble, not having any action, but it's generous,

3385
03:11:55,360 --> 03:11:58,000
Speaker 1: whether we consider their hunting or their employment in the wars.

3386
03:12:00,240 --> 03:12:07,840
Speaker 1: The nobility was more so associated not with just moral

3387
03:12:07,959 --> 03:12:14,760
Speaker 1: qualities like generosity and you know, good behavior, but also

3388
03:12:16,480 --> 03:12:22,439
Speaker 1: nobility from a legal standpoint. The lives of freedom, the privileges,

3389
03:12:22,480 --> 03:12:27,560
Speaker 1: and the responsibilities that the Indienous people enjoyed were also found,

3390
03:12:28,920 --> 03:12:35,720
Speaker 1: according to less Carboo, within the European nobility in Cannibals

3391
03:12:35,760 --> 03:12:39,080
Speaker 1: and kings nance prot just the name of Marvin. Harris

3392
03:12:40,480 --> 03:12:44,600
Speaker 1: went on to explain why less Carboo had recognized nobility

3393
03:12:45,280 --> 03:12:47,880
Speaker 1: among the Indienous people that he visited. You know, a

3394
03:12:47,959 --> 03:12:50,840
Speaker 1: lot of the band and village societies, there was a

3395
03:12:50,959 --> 03:12:55,480
Speaker 1: level of economic and political freedom that very few enjoyed

3396
03:12:55,560 --> 03:12:59,000
Speaker 1: in his day and even today. You know, people decided

3397
03:12:59,040 --> 03:13:01,320
Speaker 1: for themselves how long they wanted to work on a

3398
03:13:01,400 --> 03:13:04,160
Speaker 1: particular day. What they would do or if they would

3399
03:13:04,200 --> 03:13:06,040
Speaker 1: even work at all. You know, they didn't have to

3400
03:13:06,120 --> 03:13:09,360
Speaker 1: deal with the taxes and rents and tribute payments that

3401
03:13:10,760 --> 03:13:13,000
Speaker 1: and one I could even extend to say, debts that

3402
03:13:13,200 --> 03:13:16,400
Speaker 1: keep people today and in the past so confined and

3403
03:13:16,560 --> 03:13:21,320
Speaker 1: restricted in their limited life on this earth. What should

3404
03:13:21,320 --> 03:13:25,360
Speaker 1: have been you know, the sort of normal standard you know,

3405
03:13:25,440 --> 03:13:31,840
Speaker 1: of human freedom is in contrast with European society, just

3406
03:13:32,040 --> 03:13:35,920
Speaker 1: like mind blew in. Yeah, there's another David Graeber. Actually,

3407
03:13:35,959 --> 03:13:37,920
Speaker 1: I've been talking about their Never was at West a

3408
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:41,560
Speaker 1: lot recently, and one of the things that he talks

3409
03:13:41,560 --> 03:13:44,120
Speaker 1: about in that in the Devery was a West. Is

3410
03:13:44,160 --> 03:13:48,240
Speaker 1: this like trick that European writers use when they're looking

3411
03:13:48,280 --> 03:13:52,080
Speaker 1: at another society, which is like they present themselves as

3412
03:13:52,120 --> 03:13:55,400
Speaker 1: like people whose behaviors are sort of are entirely rational,

3413
03:13:55,440 --> 03:13:58,800
Speaker 1: and they're solving a logic puzzle, and then they go find, like,

3414
03:14:00,280 --> 03:14:02,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, what they consider to be the weirdest thing,

3415
03:14:02,240 --> 03:14:07,040
Speaker 1: and so like sorry, they go find what they consider

3416
03:14:07,120 --> 03:14:09,480
Speaker 1: to be the weirdest thing that like another culture does

3417
03:14:10,920 --> 03:14:13,800
Speaker 1: and look at it through this you know, this lens

3418
03:14:13,879 --> 03:14:16,320
Speaker 1: which it draws in the reader to be doing this

3419
03:14:16,400 --> 03:14:18,120
Speaker 1: sort of logic puzzle and trying to figure out, oh,

3420
03:14:18,160 --> 03:14:19,640
Speaker 1: how could these people do this thing? And then you know,

3421
03:14:20,640 --> 03:14:22,360
Speaker 1: if if you pull back the lens a little bit

3422
03:14:22,440 --> 03:14:26,600
Speaker 1: look at like what these supposedly objective European like theorists

3423
03:14:26,640 --> 03:14:28,120
Speaker 1: of doing, it's like, well, okay, these guys all have

3424
03:14:28,160 --> 03:14:31,760
Speaker 1: these really weird ceremonies and like they eat they they

3425
03:14:31,840 --> 03:14:35,360
Speaker 1: eat the flesh of their God every weekend and stuff

3426
03:14:35,400 --> 03:14:37,520
Speaker 1: like that, and so you get this really interesting But

3427
03:14:37,680 --> 03:14:40,240
Speaker 1: but the when when you read it through their their

3428
03:14:40,280 --> 03:14:48,600
Speaker 1: sort of colonial ethnography, you get this image of both

3429
03:14:48,720 --> 03:14:51,360
Speaker 1: societies that's very weird that that lets you sort of

3430
03:14:51,440 --> 03:14:53,600
Speaker 1: that conceals the fact that, yeah, like when when these

3431
03:14:53,600 --> 03:14:57,560
Speaker 1: European writers are talking about meeting addious people like you

3432
03:14:57,800 --> 03:15:00,920
Speaker 1: kind of the way that it's and makes it very

3433
03:15:01,000 --> 03:15:04,920
Speaker 1: easy to sort of like do this colonial thing where

3434
03:15:04,920 --> 03:15:07,280
Speaker 1: you forget that every single French writer who is writing

3435
03:15:07,320 --> 03:15:09,520
Speaker 1: about this lives in like the most hierarchical society of

3436
03:15:09,520 --> 03:15:14,000
Speaker 1: the world has ever seen. Yeah, yeah, that's so true.

3437
03:15:14,240 --> 03:15:16,199
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, yeah, of course, like they they

3438
03:15:16,280 --> 03:15:18,280
Speaker 1: went to literally any other place on Earth and talk

3439
03:15:18,320 --> 03:15:19,760
Speaker 1: to people and they are like, oh my god, these

3440
03:15:19,840 --> 03:15:22,560
Speaker 1: people are like are really freed. It's like, well, yeah,

3441
03:15:22,560 --> 03:15:25,360
Speaker 1: it's because these guys live under the French like they're

3442
03:15:25,400 --> 03:15:29,000
Speaker 1: like French absolutism. This is like I think Grab's line was, like,

3443
03:15:29,200 --> 03:15:31,920
Speaker 1: this is a society where every single person when they walk,

3444
03:15:31,959 --> 03:15:34,240
Speaker 1: when they walk into a dining room immediately knows the

3445
03:15:34,320 --> 03:15:37,199
Speaker 1: class of every single other person sitting around the table

3446
03:15:37,240 --> 03:15:40,480
Speaker 1: by like how they hold their silverware. Yes, it's absurd,

3447
03:15:41,000 --> 03:15:42,720
Speaker 1: you know when a lot of the rest of the

3448
03:15:42,840 --> 03:15:47,000
Speaker 1: world is like, you know, living on the generosity of

3449
03:15:47,080 --> 03:15:52,280
Speaker 1: the people around them, being reliable in you know, the

3450
03:15:53,879 --> 03:15:59,160
Speaker 1: phone deations of you know, community, not even necessarily because

3451
03:15:59,240 --> 03:16:02,680
Speaker 1: I mean obviously a hierarchies to be found within a

3452
03:16:02,760 --> 03:16:06,160
Speaker 1: lot of these colleges and communities, but not to the

3453
03:16:06,320 --> 03:16:09,400
Speaker 1: extent that you would have you fallen in. And some

3454
03:16:09,520 --> 03:16:14,480
Speaker 1: of these European societies not even close. Yeah, these are

3455
03:16:14,640 --> 03:16:18,360
Speaker 1: the European like I don't know, like Europe has been

3456
03:16:18,480 --> 03:16:20,560
Speaker 1: really really I mean, you know, this is the sort

3457
03:16:20,560 --> 03:16:23,440
Speaker 1: of organizational trend of European society for like the last

3458
03:16:24,120 --> 03:16:27,920
Speaker 1: like four or five hundred years has been just an incredible,

3459
03:16:28,000 --> 03:16:31,200
Speaker 1: unfathomable centralization on a level that was just it's just

3460
03:16:31,360 --> 03:16:34,640
Speaker 1: sort of incomprehensible to most of the people who've ever lived,

3461
03:16:35,280 --> 03:16:37,360
Speaker 1: but we treat as sort of normal now because it's

3462
03:16:37,360 --> 03:16:40,240
Speaker 1: a society that we've grown up under. Yes, it's a

3463
03:16:41,600 --> 03:16:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying to draw a comparison between Europeans and culture

3464
03:16:46,600 --> 03:16:51,200
Speaker 1: and this level of freedom and other societies and sort

3465
03:16:51,240 --> 03:16:55,720
Speaker 1: of like I can't think of any specific example right now,

3466
03:16:55,800 --> 03:16:59,200
Speaker 1: but you know how, you know, grown up as a

3467
03:16:59,360 --> 03:17:03,279
Speaker 1: child in a particular household, your house would have certain

3468
03:17:03,600 --> 03:17:06,880
Speaker 1: norms that you think is just like universal, you know,

3469
03:17:07,000 --> 03:17:09,720
Speaker 1: like everybody does this. Obviously this is just a fact

3470
03:17:09,760 --> 03:17:12,360
Speaker 1: of life in the universe. But in reality, it's just

3471
03:17:12,520 --> 03:17:14,960
Speaker 1: like some way at quirk when you appearance had that

3472
03:17:15,600 --> 03:17:19,120
Speaker 1: you just had to grow up with. Yeah, yeah, like like,

3473
03:17:19,280 --> 03:17:22,680
Speaker 1: for example, this is a really weird example, but let's say,

3474
03:17:22,720 --> 03:17:29,920
Speaker 1: for example, you had like ceramic dishes. Would not allow

3475
03:17:29,920 --> 03:17:33,600
Speaker 1: it to be used ever, right, they were purely for

3476
03:17:33,720 --> 03:17:40,040
Speaker 1: decoration and appearance. Tooled you that it's some grave moral

3477
03:17:40,240 --> 03:17:44,440
Speaker 1: sin to eat off of ceramic dishes. And then you

3478
03:17:44,520 --> 03:17:46,560
Speaker 1: go to somebody's house and they have all their plates

3479
03:17:46,640 --> 03:17:51,320
Speaker 1: laid out, and you're like utterly baffled by how they're

3480
03:17:51,320 --> 03:17:54,360
Speaker 1: able to eat off ceramic dishes. If I could think

3481
03:17:54,400 --> 03:17:57,720
Speaker 1: of a better example, but for now, Yeah, that's what

3482
03:17:57,840 --> 03:18:02,480
Speaker 1: I'm a role with. Anyway, despite recognizing all of this

3483
03:18:02,680 --> 03:18:06,920
Speaker 1: freedom and stuff, they were kind of like disgusted by it,

3484
03:18:07,040 --> 03:18:09,320
Speaker 1: at least some of them, you know, some of them,

3485
03:18:09,879 --> 03:18:14,480
Speaker 1: when publishing their texts in Europe, would put their own

3486
03:18:14,600 --> 03:18:18,280
Speaker 1: liberal ideas into the mouths of indigenous people to say, oh,

3487
03:18:18,400 --> 03:18:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this. This is obviously like trees in

3488
03:18:21,680 --> 03:18:25,040
Speaker 1: US and I would never say this, but this indigenous

3489
03:18:25,080 --> 03:18:27,400
Speaker 1: guy who I spoke to the other day, he said it,

3490
03:18:27,760 --> 03:18:31,960
Speaker 1: and so I'm just publishing what he said. So that

3491
03:18:32,080 --> 03:18:35,440
Speaker 1: took place sometimes. And then they're also those who would

3492
03:18:35,480 --> 03:18:42,480
Speaker 1: like actually disgusted by the liberty exhibited in so many societies.

3493
03:18:43,400 --> 03:18:46,360
Speaker 1: But whether they saw that freedom as a positive or

3494
03:18:46,400 --> 03:18:52,240
Speaker 1: as a negative despite all their fluffy words about intigenous liberties,

3495
03:18:53,320 --> 03:18:55,320
Speaker 1: that doesn't really matter of indigenous people at the end

3496
03:18:55,320 --> 03:18:58,520
Speaker 1: of the day, because you know, through the centuries, empires

3497
03:18:58,680 --> 03:19:04,160
Speaker 1: continue to swallow indigenous lands. And the phrase basically disappeared

3498
03:19:04,160 --> 03:19:06,240
Speaker 1: for about two hundred and fifty years because the idea

3499
03:19:06,240 --> 03:19:10,680
Speaker 1: of the noble savage was reversed by this stereotype of

3500
03:19:10,760 --> 03:19:14,520
Speaker 1: the dangerous, brutal savage like whole day are they defend

3501
03:19:14,520 --> 03:19:17,119
Speaker 1: their land and way of life? Right. It was until

3502
03:19:17,240 --> 03:19:20,600
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty nine that the term was resurrected by a

3503
03:19:20,640 --> 03:19:25,240
Speaker 1: guy named John Crawford, a white supremacist. He wanted to

3504
03:19:25,400 --> 03:19:29,560
Speaker 1: become president, or rather he was attempted to become president

3505
03:19:29,640 --> 03:19:33,280
Speaker 1: of the Ethnological Society of London, and he was very

3506
03:19:34,160 --> 03:19:42,080
Speaker 1: disdainful of this idea emergin and anthropology and philosophy of

3507
03:19:43,000 --> 03:19:47,400
Speaker 1: universal human rights, like how dare you? You know? So

3508
03:19:47,480 --> 03:19:51,400
Speaker 1: he introduced the phrase resurrecting after two hundred and fifty

3509
03:19:51,480 --> 03:19:55,440
Speaker 1: years to make a speech to the society, and by

3510
03:19:55,440 --> 03:19:57,960
Speaker 1: the way, he missed. He's the one who first misattributed

3511
03:19:58,040 --> 03:20:04,040
Speaker 1: this speech the phrase to russ basically ridiculing using the

3512
03:20:04,080 --> 03:20:07,279
Speaker 1: noble savage as a term to ridicule those who sympathized

3513
03:20:07,360 --> 03:20:12,760
Speaker 1: with such quote less advanced cultures. And so that sort

3514
03:20:12,760 --> 03:20:16,280
Speaker 1: of fabrication where he attributed it to Russu and he

3515
03:20:16,520 --> 03:20:20,680
Speaker 1: built up this straw man to blew it down. You know,

3516
03:20:20,879 --> 03:20:25,640
Speaker 1: it's basically this myth of the myth of the noble savage.

3517
03:20:26,879 --> 03:20:31,000
Speaker 1: He creates a straw band of the noble savage as

3518
03:20:31,040 --> 03:20:36,760
Speaker 1: a myth, and then that's what's perpetuated. But his myth

3519
03:20:36,920 --> 03:20:39,160
Speaker 1: of the noble savage was the one that was a myth.

3520
03:20:39,240 --> 03:20:41,400
Speaker 1: So it's, you know, the myth of the myth the

3521
03:20:41,480 --> 03:20:44,120
Speaker 1: noble savage. And so as the British Empire was reaching

3522
03:20:44,280 --> 03:20:46,840
Speaker 1: the height of its power, and he was, you know,

3523
03:20:46,920 --> 03:20:48,720
Speaker 1: trying to ridicule anybody who had anything nice to say

3524
03:20:48,720 --> 03:20:52,560
Speaker 1: about Indigenous people, that straw Band was used to continue

3525
03:20:52,560 --> 03:20:57,199
Speaker 1: to advocate for the extermination. Crawford's version of noble Savage

3526
03:20:57,520 --> 03:21:00,520
Speaker 1: became the source for every citation of the myth by

3527
03:21:00,560 --> 03:21:04,600
Speaker 1: anthropologists from Lubbock, Tyler or Boas through the scholars of

3528
03:21:04,680 --> 03:21:08,760
Speaker 1: the late twentieth century. So even one hundred years later,

3529
03:21:09,760 --> 03:21:12,720
Speaker 1: people were still using the term that he came up with,

3530
03:21:14,080 --> 03:21:19,040
Speaker 1: this rhetorical cheap shots that he used, and to this

3531
03:21:19,280 --> 03:21:23,040
Speaker 1: day it continues to polarize our discussions and obstruct any

3532
03:21:23,200 --> 03:21:27,560
Speaker 1: sort of nuanced approach to hunt to gather life. And

3533
03:21:27,720 --> 03:21:32,200
Speaker 1: having discovered all of this, I have to say, it

3534
03:21:32,320 --> 03:21:37,920
Speaker 1: really made me feel like a part of history. There

3535
03:21:38,000 --> 03:21:41,400
Speaker 1: never was a noble savage myth, at least on the

3536
03:21:41,520 --> 03:21:46,960
Speaker 1: sense of this strong man of simple societies living in

3537
03:21:47,200 --> 03:21:56,959
Speaker 1: happy innocence. Travelers usually accounted for both virtues and vices.

3538
03:21:59,480 --> 03:22:02,200
Speaker 1: They spoke of the positives of these societies and also

3539
03:22:02,280 --> 03:22:09,160
Speaker 1: things that they weren't too fond of. Both the concept

3540
03:22:09,200 --> 03:22:11,440
Speaker 1: of the noble savage and the concept of the brutal

3541
03:22:11,560 --> 03:22:19,080
Speaker 1: savage a fantasies constructions of a European mind that was

3542
03:22:19,160 --> 03:22:23,320
Speaker 1: intent on boxing Indigenous people in this sort of suspended

3543
03:22:23,400 --> 03:22:28,119
Speaker 1: state of either purity or evil going forward. I think

3544
03:22:28,120 --> 03:22:31,480
Speaker 1: it's really silly to continue to perpetuate the tim I

3545
03:22:31,520 --> 03:22:34,800
Speaker 1: think it really keeps us from engaging with history properly.

3546
03:22:35,959 --> 03:22:40,440
Speaker 1: And I mean, even if somebody is exaggerating or expungentertain

3547
03:22:40,560 --> 03:22:45,160
Speaker 1: aspects of a particular society or culture that should be

3548
03:22:45,280 --> 03:22:48,400
Speaker 1: engaged with directly. You know, I don't think you should

3549
03:22:48,440 --> 03:22:53,880
Speaker 1: fall back on a lazy troope popularized by a white supremacist.

3550
03:22:55,280 --> 03:22:57,520
Speaker 1: I mean, we live under states now, we live on

3551
03:22:57,560 --> 03:23:01,879
Speaker 1: the capitalism now, and I don't think I don't fault

3552
03:23:01,959 --> 03:23:06,360
Speaker 1: people for trying to imagine what life must have been

3553
03:23:06,440 --> 03:23:11,879
Speaker 1: like before then, before these institutions became so all in compassing.

3554
03:23:13,760 --> 03:23:16,320
Speaker 1: What becomes an issue is when we take these past

3555
03:23:16,400 --> 03:23:19,240
Speaker 1: societies and we use them as these speakers of virtue

3556
03:23:19,600 --> 03:23:22,400
Speaker 1: instead of going back and trying to take their lessons

3557
03:23:22,440 --> 03:23:25,480
Speaker 1: and their practices and adopting them and interpreting them to

3558
03:23:25,680 --> 03:23:31,039
Speaker 1: move forward. There was a lot of freedom and there

3559
03:23:31,120 --> 03:23:33,320
Speaker 1: still is a lot of freedom left to be uncovered

3560
03:23:33,560 --> 03:23:37,280
Speaker 1: in our history. It is obscured in our history classes.

3561
03:23:37,320 --> 03:23:39,800
Speaker 1: It isn't taught. Instead, we're taught facts and figures and

3562
03:23:40,000 --> 03:23:47,320
Speaker 1: wars and notable notable individuals. We're taught of kings and

3563
03:23:47,480 --> 03:23:51,000
Speaker 1: dictators and high priests and emperors and prime ministers and

3564
03:23:51,120 --> 03:23:57,679
Speaker 1: presidents and chiefs and judges and jailers and dungeons, penitentiaries

3565
03:23:57,920 --> 03:24:03,200
Speaker 1: and concentration camps. This is always a stance now, but

3566
03:24:03,520 --> 03:24:07,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be. And if we go into

3567
03:24:07,240 --> 03:24:11,120
Speaker 1: have an honest exploration of our history in order to

3568
03:24:11,200 --> 03:24:17,240
Speaker 1: inform our future, we have to free our imaginations of

3569
03:24:17,520 --> 03:24:22,200
Speaker 1: this lazy troop of the noble savage. That's it for

3570
03:24:22,320 --> 03:24:27,080
Speaker 1: me for this episode. Can check me out on YouTube

3571
03:24:27,120 --> 03:24:32,119
Speaker 1: dot com slash Aurism and also on Twitter at underscore

3572
03:24:32,240 --> 03:24:35,200
Speaker 1: sat Drew, as well as when patreon dot com slash

3573
03:24:35,400 --> 03:24:38,080
Speaker 1: Saint Drew. This is it could happen here. Yeah, you

3574
03:24:38,120 --> 03:24:41,040
Speaker 1: can find us in the usual places on Twitter, Instagram,

3575
03:24:41,879 --> 03:24:48,000
Speaker 1: and Yeah, go be free. Hey, We'll be back Monday,

3576
03:24:48,120 --> 03:24:51,080
Speaker 1: with more episodes every week from now until the heat

3577
03:24:51,120 --> 03:24:53,440
Speaker 1: death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here as a

3578
03:24:53,520 --> 03:24:56,360
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

3579
03:24:56,400 --> 03:24:59,240
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com or

3580
03:24:59,320 --> 03:25:01,960
Speaker 1: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

3581
03:25:02,000 --> 03:25:04,800
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for

3582
03:25:04,879 --> 03:25:08,119
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at Coolsonemedia dot com

3583
03:25:08,240 --> 03:25:10,080
Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.