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Speaker 1: Hiverone. This is Lee Clasgow when We're Talking Transports. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host, Lee Klaskow,

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Speaker 1: Senior free transportation logistics Analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in

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Speaker 1: house research arm of almost five hundred analysts and strategists.

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Speaker 1: Before diving in a little public service announcement, your support

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Speaker 1: is instrumental to keep bringing great guests onto podcasts like

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Speaker 1: the ones we have today. We need your support though,

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Speaker 1: so please if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it,

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Speaker 1: like it, and leave a comment. Also, if you have

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Speaker 1: any ideas for future episodes you just want to talk transports,

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Speaker 1: please hit me up on the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn

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Speaker 1: or on Twitter at logistics Lake. Now on to our episode.

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Speaker 1: We're delighted to have Ken Byer, CEO of Transportation Insights

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Speaker 1: and Nolan Transportation Group, leading the combined company to become

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Speaker 1: the fourth largest domestic transportation management provider in the US

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Speaker 1: with over five billion in revenue. Under his leadership, TI

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Speaker 1: and NTG have been recognized by Newsweek as one of

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Speaker 1: America's Greatest workplaces in twenty twenty four, driven by a

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Speaker 1: culture of innovation, growth and operational excellence. Kennice more than

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Speaker 1: twenty five years of experience driving growth in the technology

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Speaker 1: and logistics sectors. He previously served as president of Ingram

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Speaker 1: micro Commerce and life Cycle Services, a four billion global

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Speaker 1: logistics business later acquired by Several Logistics. He joined Ingram

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Speaker 1: following its acquisition of cloud Blue Technologies, a company he

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Speaker 1: co founded and built into a leading provider of reverse

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Speaker 1: logistics in IT asset disposition services. Ken began his career

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Speaker 1: at Ernest and Young as a management consultant. He holds

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Speaker 1: a degree in architectural engineering from Kansas State University. So

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Speaker 1: I guess that's go Wildcats.

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Speaker 2: Go Wildcats. I like the purple you got on.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks for joining us today, Ken's good seeing you again.

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested to have this conversation. You know, not

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Speaker 1: everyone knows what you know. TI and NTG are and

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Speaker 1: the holding company beyond. Can you just give a little

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Speaker 1: little flavor of what these organizations are before we start

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Speaker 1: the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're focused on the domestic transportation market that is

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Speaker 2: within the US, So we focus on what we call

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Speaker 2: port to porch. When a container arrives at the port,

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Speaker 2: we provide trade services, full truckload services, less than truckload,

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Speaker 2: and final mile delivery including parcel. We do this both

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Speaker 2: transactionally and fully managed. So we have a brokerage business NTG,

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Speaker 2: which manages capacity across eighty thousand carriers for about fourteen

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Speaker 2: thousand shippers, and a fully managed solution with Transportation Insight,

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Speaker 2: where we focus on the mid market, helping customers with technology,

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Speaker 2: business analytics, and fully managing their supply chain.

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Speaker 1: And you know, could you just talk about those those markets,

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Speaker 1: you know, the transportation management service markets and the brokerage

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Speaker 1: markets kind of like what the profiles are in terms

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Speaker 1: of growth, not only for you, but maybe more broader

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Speaker 1: for the industry. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know, transportation is eight percent of the US GDP,

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Speaker 2: so it's only behind housing, food, and education. It's bigger

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Speaker 2: than healthcare, and you could argue that none of those

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Speaker 2: other industries exist without transportation. So you know, our vision

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Speaker 2: is that we keep the economy moving and that you know,

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Speaker 2: literally is the case for transportation. Is without transportation, the

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Speaker 2: US economy would grind to a halt. So what we

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Speaker 2: do is critically important both for the overall economy and

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Speaker 2: for our customers and their supply chains. We focus on

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Speaker 2: helping customers meet their customer demands, and that is ensuring

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Speaker 2: that the product arrives on time and high quality, and

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Speaker 2: that they're making the best decisions for their business. Primarily,

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Speaker 2: how do we help our customers grow their businesses and

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Speaker 2: hit their profit goals. And so that's everything from a

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Speaker 2: single shipment as I mentioned, maybe a full truckload shipment

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Speaker 2: or an LTL shipment all the way too. If a

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Speaker 2: customer doesn't have the resources in house, whether technology or people,

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Speaker 2: to manage their own supply chains, we can outsource their

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Speaker 2: entire supply chain to our team. Provide a TMS, provide

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Speaker 2: the people, procure the carriers on their behalf, manage that

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Speaker 2: those carriers provide audit services at the end of the

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Speaker 2: life cycle, and then the overall analytics to help them

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Speaker 2: understand exactly down to the skew level, what their most

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Speaker 2: profitable products are and how they can make them more profitable.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was down well, you know this what

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Speaker 1: the listeners might not know. I was at offices a

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Speaker 1: couple of months ago. You know, you guys were moving

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Speaker 1: into a new headquarters and you know I can see why.

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Speaker 1: You know, you guys were acknowledged by Newsweek is a

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Speaker 1: great place to work because it was really you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of felt a cool vibe with with your

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Speaker 1: with your folks. There can you talk about because you know,

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Speaker 1: the brokerage industry, we're hearing all about technology, technology, technology.

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Speaker 1: For for NTG, you know, what is the right mix

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Speaker 1: and NTI for that matter, what is the right mix

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Speaker 1: of technology and people moving forward as these great technology

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Speaker 1: innovations come to fruition.

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Speaker 2: Well, I believe all businesses are people businesses. No one's

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Speaker 2: working for a computer yet, and that may happen in

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Speaker 2: the future, but right now, businesses are based on good

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Speaker 2: leaders who understand their people and connect and respond to

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Speaker 2: their needs, and so we are at people first business. However,

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Speaker 2: I also believe every company has to be a technology company,

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Speaker 2: and so our focus is using technology to enable our

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Speaker 2: people and our customers to be more productive than they

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Speaker 2: would be without the technology. Not only more productive, but

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Speaker 2: to make smarter decisions. And so our focus has been

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Speaker 2: investing in technology that really enhances the ability of our

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Speaker 2: team members to provide better service to their customers and

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Speaker 2: then provide those same analytics and insights directly to our customers.

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Speaker 2: We invested significant amounts of money in technology, and we're

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Speaker 2: a huge believer in it. We think it is transforming

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Speaker 2: the industry. My background is largely in technology, so I'm

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Speaker 2: a passionate believer in what technology can do. But at

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Speaker 2: the beginning, it all starts with people, and.

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Speaker 3: That's our focus.

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Speaker 2: And as you said, we built a great headquarters here

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta, consolidating five different offices we had in Atlanta

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Speaker 2: into one headquarters. And the focus is really creating a

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Speaker 2: space that makes our folks feel valuable and worthy to

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Speaker 2: be in a great work environment, because we believe that

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Speaker 2: translates into providing great services to our customers and to

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Speaker 2: our carriers, and it creates a great work environment where

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Speaker 2: our engagement is highest it's been in the history of

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Speaker 2: the company.

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Speaker 1: And you led with people, you know, mentoring is obviously

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Speaker 1: a big part of the brokerage industry. I'm assuming you're

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Speaker 1: more or less in an office culture, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are primarily in office. We believe, especially within

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Speaker 2: the brokerage space, you get so much out of the

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Speaker 2: collaboration and working together with other people, particularly across functions.

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Speaker 2: So we're primarily in office. We do have some remote workers,

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Speaker 2: primarily in the tech tech sector, but we are a

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Speaker 2: believer in the in office.

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Speaker 1: Culture and so you know, I'm assuming you're also use

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Speaker 1: a lot of technology to measure how your employees do.

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Speaker 1: Can you do you like just talk about how you

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Speaker 1: measure success for your employees on the brokerage side, and

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that that is very different from someone who

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Speaker 1: is an entry level you know, first year in versus

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Speaker 1: you know more somebody that has significant experience.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'm a big believer in managing by metrics, and

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Speaker 2: so we have dashboards for every part of our business.

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Speaker 2: Every day we can pull up exactly what the metrics

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Speaker 2: are by a per person, by segment, by business. Everyone

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Speaker 2: has incentive compensation that is tied back to performance metrics.

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Speaker 2: On the brokerage side, it's primarily about the number of

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Speaker 2: loads brokers bring in the margin of those loads, and

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Speaker 2: then as you move across to other functions, we have

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Speaker 2: KPIs that measure their performance. And what I think is

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Speaker 2: important is everyone can see their performance in real time

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Speaker 2: and know where they stand. That helps us with mentoring.

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Speaker 2: So folks that are maybe missing from the threshold, we

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Speaker 2: can sit down and say, how can we help you

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Speaker 2: get to the level performance that we expect and it's

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Speaker 2: best for them because their incentive comp is tied to

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Speaker 2: performing and exceeding those metrics.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, you know and you mentioned technology earlier and

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Speaker 1: how you're huge believer and you talked about how it

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Speaker 1: makes your people more productive. Can you just give some

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Speaker 1: examples of some technology that you implemented and how it

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Speaker 1: improved your overall production?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely so. Across both TI and NTG, we invested in

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Speaker 2: a proprietary technology platform called Beyond. The goal of that

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Speaker 2: platform was to create a port to porch technology platform,

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Speaker 2: meaning all modes across both transactional and managed, where we

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Speaker 2: could have a single platform for both shippers and carriers

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Speaker 2: to interact with us digitally. That has, at a high level,

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Speaker 2: improved our productivity by almost three times since we implemented

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Speaker 2: the technology, So we are significantly more productive as a

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Speaker 2: result of the technology that we've implemented. But I would

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Speaker 2: argue the bigger impact is that we are providing better

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Speaker 2: service to our customers and to our carriers because we

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Speaker 2: have better intelligence at the fingertips of our employees, So

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Speaker 2: when they're interacting with their customers and their carriers and

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Speaker 2: their partners, they are more productive and provide better insights

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Speaker 2: than they would without the technology.

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Speaker 1: In these technologies I'm assuming also help you price better,

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Speaker 1: so each load is a little more profitable for the company.

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Speaker 3: That's correct.

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Speaker 2: The first big use case of AI that we implemented

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Speaker 2: was in pricing. So we have built a proprietary pricing

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Speaker 2: model that helps us price at the load level as

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, you know, at the lane level, all the

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Speaker 2: way at the full supply chain level, so we can

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Speaker 2: optimize a customer's supply chain by using our pricing algorithms.

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Speaker 2: The other thing about the pricing algorithms is, you know,

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Speaker 2: we hire a lot of new salespeople out of college

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Speaker 2: and next Monday we have one hundred and thirty new

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Speaker 2: salespeople starting at the company. Without multiple years in the

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Speaker 2: industry knowing how to price, it would be impossible for them.

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Speaker 2: And they know how to price once they start selling.

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Speaker 2: And so this technology allows us to scale up our

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Speaker 2: new hires much more quickly than if we had to

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Speaker 2: train them without this tech.

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Speaker 1: Right, and so you know, just as aside these these

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Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty employees, like you know, for those

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Speaker 1: that might be interested in training the industry, like how

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Speaker 1: long does it take somebody to ramp up to to

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Speaker 1: you know, be on their own if you if you will,

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Speaker 1: to go after customers and support customers.

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Speaker 2: Well, we spend a significant amount of time in training,

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Speaker 2: so four weeks of intensive training to start. That's training

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Speaker 2: about the industry, the modes, the equipment types, the customer segments,

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Speaker 2: the types of carriers that we work with. So we

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Speaker 2: spend for four weeks if you will, in a classroom

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Speaker 2: setting with with using the technology, making mock calls, and

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Speaker 2: so a significant amount of training up front. Then we

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Speaker 2: go into about two months of you know, assisted training

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Speaker 2: where they're they're hitting the floor, they're on the phones,

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Speaker 2: they're making calls, but very involved you know, interaction from

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Speaker 2: a team leader that's that's next to them. So after

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Speaker 2: about the third month, we expect our brokers to be

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Speaker 2: fully up to speed, and we see most of our

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Speaker 2: new classes being fully ramped and profitable within six months

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Speaker 2: of hiring.

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Speaker 1: And what's the retention like because obviously any person that

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Speaker 1: joins in new industry and they have no idea what

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Speaker 1: to expect, sometimes it doesn't meet their expectations. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the brokerage industry is that kind of eat which you

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Speaker 1: kill environment so you know, what kind of retention do

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Speaker 1: you have? I don't know if you measure it after

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Speaker 1: a year or two year, six months.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, this year our attention was the best

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Speaker 2: it's been and some time. And that might come as

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Speaker 2: a surprise because of you know, the state of the

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Speaker 2: freight market the last couple of years. But I think

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Speaker 2: that goes to the culture work that we've been doing

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Speaker 2: is coming alongside of our people and spending more time

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Speaker 2: training them on how to be successful, and so our

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Speaker 2: retention rates are at all time highs. It is a

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Speaker 2: significant turnover in the beginning, so mostly because folks decide,

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Speaker 2: as as you mentioned that it's just not the industry

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Speaker 2: for them, but those that want to succeed will succeed.

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Speaker 2: We provide the tools, the education, it's just a matter

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Speaker 2: of their own personal drive and commitment to being successful

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Speaker 2: in these new classes.

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Speaker 1: Are they are? They? Are they just specifically for NTG

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Speaker 1: or they kind of feed up both organizations TI and NTG.

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Speaker 2: The class I mentioned is specifically for NTG. We also

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Speaker 2: are hiring across the TI platform as well. The TI

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Speaker 2: sales process is significantly longer. It's typically a six to

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Speaker 2: nine month sales cycle. These are three to five year

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Speaker 2: contracts where we're providing very strategic solutions for our customers,

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Speaker 2: usually including a technology implementation. And so it's a different

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Speaker 2: level of salesperson, someone who's been in the industry a

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Speaker 2: while and really understands the ins and outs of the

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Speaker 2: supply chain. So we typically hire more experienced people to

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Speaker 2: join our TI sales team.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we're on the managed transportation side. I

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Speaker 1: don't think like any pyone can maybe get their arms

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Speaker 1: around it exactly what that is? Could you do you

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Speaker 1: give like a case study, whether factor fiction about like

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Speaker 1: you know what TI actually does.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So, if you're a small to medium sized business,

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Speaker 2: transportation has historically been something that's been really not well

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Speaker 2: understood and it's hard to find experienced people who really

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Speaker 2: know how to operate it. And so what we do

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Speaker 2: is we come alongside of these companies and we say

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Speaker 2: we've already got the expertise. We're managing fifteen billion dollars

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Speaker 2: a freight across companies just like you. We can come

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Speaker 2: in and look at your current data set, where your

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Speaker 2: warehouses are, where your imports are coming in, where you're shipping,

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Speaker 2: to put that into our large database with over twenty

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Speaker 2: years of historic data and provide to you what we

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Speaker 2: think is the optimal supply chain. With that, then we

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Speaker 2: can go out procure the carriers, whether that's asset based

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Speaker 2: carriers or brokers, to make sure we create the optimal

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Speaker 2: capacity network for the freight that you're shipping. Once we've

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Speaker 2: done that, we can optimize that with managing the service

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Speaker 2: levels of those carriers, providing you real time reporting on

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Speaker 2: how those carriers performing in terms of on time, delivery,

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Speaker 2: service quality, etc. And then we audit the freight bills

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Speaker 2: when they come in to make sure that what you're

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Speaker 2: getting build is what you signed up to invoice those customers.

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Speaker 2: And then finally we provide you the analytics to say, okay,

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Speaker 2: now that all of this is operating, by the way,

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Speaker 2: usually with our TMS, which we implement. So we provide

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Speaker 2: the tms and we actually execute the freight on their

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Speaker 2: behalf in some cases, then we can say, now we

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Speaker 2: can start to look at every skew within your within

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Speaker 2: your platform and are you shipping this particular skew the

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Speaker 2: right way?

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Speaker 3: And so we call we call.

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Speaker 2: That margin management, where we can actually get down to

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Speaker 2: the SKIU level and help help our customers decide should

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Speaker 2: I be shipping this product lt L versus parcel, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: to optimize a profitability of each SKU. So what you

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Speaker 2: have is, as a medium size to large business is

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Speaker 2: a fully outsourced solution if you choose, or it could

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Speaker 2: be co managed with with your own internal team where

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Speaker 2: it provides onboarding technology, audit and then we ultimately also

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Speaker 2: pay the carriers on your behalf, so we're managing the

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Speaker 2: cash flow and making that less of a burden on

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Speaker 2: the company.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha? And then are there synergies between the two organizations

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Speaker 1: TI and NTG.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, the TI business is primarily focused on We are

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Speaker 2: a partner of our shipper and so our primary goal

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Speaker 2: as a managed service provider is the best interest of

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Speaker 2: our customer, and that means if we can find a

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Speaker 2: better rate in the market, then we will we will

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Speaker 2: go get that for our customer, whether that's NTG, another

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Speaker 2: broker or an asset carrier. However, there's many cases where

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Speaker 2: we know that NTG can provide the best rate in

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Speaker 2: the highest quality of service, and with the customer's permission,

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Speaker 2: will leverage our brokerage to provide that capacity.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay? And then you know on on the on

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Speaker 1: the technology side, going back to technology and maybe more

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Speaker 1: so it probably related to NTG and t I. You know,

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Speaker 1: fraud within the freight markets, it's been a rising concern.

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Speaker 1: How do you use technology to kind of weed out

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Speaker 1: the bad actors UH that are that are in the marketplace.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fraud's been a rising concern across the industry, and

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Speaker 2: I think over the last four years what you've seen

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Speaker 2: is not only US, but everybody else in the industry

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Speaker 2: moved from more of a reactive stance to fraud to

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Speaker 2: a very proactive stance. And that means for US is

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Speaker 2: we've implemented several third party tools to help US vet

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Speaker 2: carriers before we onboard them. Once they're onboarded, we have

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Speaker 2: our own data where we have carrier personas where we

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Speaker 2: can flag carriers that we think are risky to provide

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Speaker 2: certain types of freight movement for us UH. And we

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Speaker 2: have scores where we know which which carriers are.

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Speaker 3: Are higher risk than others.

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Speaker 2: And so leveraging our data the third party tools that

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Speaker 2: we have, we've made significant progress in reducing fraud. I

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Speaker 2: don't think we'll ever see it a day when you

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Speaker 2: know there's there's zero fraud in this industry. I think

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Speaker 2: there's all the bad actors that are that are trying

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Speaker 2: to steal where they can, and it's become much more

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Speaker 2: sophisticated the last few years. As you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: carriers that aren't able to make it sell their MC

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Speaker 2: numbers to to a fraudulent player, and that that carrier

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Speaker 2: could have been a great carry in our network and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden is now part of something that's uh,

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Speaker 2: that's fraudulent. So we're constantly monitoring this. And while I

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Speaker 2: said we will never get it to zero, we're moving

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Speaker 2: towards the case where it's probably one in one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand modes where we see an issue versus where we've

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Speaker 2: been in the past.

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Speaker 1: So you guys see a lot of different freight movements,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's ocean, air, trucking, rail, intermodal, what

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Speaker 1: have you. You know, given all the things that you

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Speaker 1: do at TI and TG, can you talk about the

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Speaker 1: state of the freight market here in North America? You know,

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Speaker 1: what are you seeing? What are you expecting for this

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Speaker 1: year versus last year?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And we publish our forecast every quarter. Our current

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Speaker 2: forecast for twenty twenty five is we expect that on

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Speaker 2: the truckload side, spot rates are going to increase around

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Speaker 2: fifteen percent in twenty twenty five. We see that starting

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Speaker 2: it has picked up in the fourth quarter or fourth quarters,

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Speaker 2: we saw tender rejections rise, rates rise, and with some

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Speaker 2: of the winter storms coming here in January, I expect

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Speaker 2: that to a stay somewhat sticky, but really in the

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Speaker 2: second quarter start to see a more material change in

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Speaker 2: spot rates. Contract rates will lag that our production is

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Speaker 2: about four percent increase in contract rates over the course

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Speaker 2: of twenty five on the LFL side, much more muted

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Speaker 2: maybe in the three to four percent increase in rates

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Speaker 2: on the LTL side.

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Speaker 1: So on the demand, do you guys do any forecasts

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Speaker 1: with regards to demand for truckloads or you just more

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Speaker 1: focused on the pricing aspect of the markets.

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Speaker 2: Now we look at both you demand as well as rate.

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Speaker 2: They're obviously interlinked, not only demand but capacity and what

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Speaker 2: we've seen as a significant amount of carriers leave the market,

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Speaker 2: which is driving some of the increase in tender rejections

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Speaker 2: and therefore the increase in rates. We think overall, with

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Speaker 2: interest rates coming down in the economy picking up, that

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Speaker 2: will drive some of the rate increase in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: projecting volume increases as well as rate increases.

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Speaker 1: Okay, great, And so you know, over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years, you know, we've seen a lot of changes

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Speaker 1: of supply chains, whether it's just the pandemic and then

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Speaker 1: you know, getting to a new normal, and it seems

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Speaker 1: like things are continuing to shift to geopolitical concerns and

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Speaker 1: concerns over tariffs. You talk about how supply changes, supply

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Speaker 1: chains have changed over the last twelve months and kind

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Speaker 1: of where you're guiding some of your customers next year

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Speaker 1: because of those changes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in general, you know, COVID taught everyone

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Speaker 2: that supply chains are critical to.

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Speaker 3: Their business, and so there's there's been.

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Speaker 2: An increased focus on making sure you have a resilient

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Speaker 2: supply chain that can perform well in any market. And

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Speaker 2: so what we've been doing with our customers and across

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Speaker 2: both NTG and TI is putting plans in place for

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Speaker 2: all of our customers to make sure they have very

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Speaker 2: resilient supply chains that perform in any condition. What that

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Speaker 2: means is having multiple sources of capacity, not being tied

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Speaker 2: to just a few carriers, but having access to broad

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Speaker 2: pools of carriers. And that's not just on the truckload side,

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Speaker 2: that's across the entire supply chain. So, for example, in drage,

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Speaker 2: when the ports started to back up, what is our

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Speaker 2: customers plan to deal with port congestion? And so we

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Speaker 2: have a very significant drage practice where we move about

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand containers a month from the port, and we've

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Speaker 2: helped our customers implement solutions at the port to make

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Speaker 2: sure that if anything happens, will say with a strike

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Speaker 2: at the ILA in January, we can help them with

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Speaker 2: the solution at the port and then all the way

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Speaker 2: to the final mile. You know, the final mile has

396
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Speaker 2: changed significantly in the last four years. Used to have

397
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Speaker 2: primarily two to three carriers with UPS, FedEx and USPS.

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Speaker 3: In the parcel space.

399
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Speaker 2: We manage over ten billion dollars a parcel freight in

400
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Speaker 2: the US, and our work with customers has been to

401
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Speaker 2: diversify some of that spend across some of the regional

402
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Speaker 2: carriers as well as the big three carriers. And so

403
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: those are the kind of strategies we're putting in place. Also,

404
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 2: where our Folks warehouse is located, how many warehouses do

405
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 2: they have and so we can optimize the spend even

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Speaker 2: within the redistribution of their inventory within the US.

407
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Speaker 1: And so, you know, on the on the parcel business,

408
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Speaker 1: you mentioned that you're suggesting to your customers to diversified

409
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Speaker 1: as smaller players. Are smaller players more price competitive than

410
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Speaker 1: the larger players of FedEx and ups.

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Speaker 2: In some cases, but you know, everyone is becoming very

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Speaker 2: price competitive. So our focus is, yes, we'd like to

413
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Speaker 2: find cost savings, but we want to create a resilient

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Speaker 2: supply chain that provides the best service to our customers.

415
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Speaker 2: So price is a component, but also having a diversified

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Speaker 2: strategy around how you deliver packages is also really important.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, And going back to the truckload market, you know,

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Speaker 1: with your outlook, you know, where are you guys thinking

419
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Speaker 1: like capacity is going to be Do you see more

420
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Speaker 1: coming out or do you think the price increases is

421
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: going to be more on the demand side or the

422
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Speaker 1: supply side. I guess the question is.

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Speaker 2: We have seen a lot of capacity come out of

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Speaker 2: the market. We expect more will come out of the market,

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Speaker 2: but every cycle is really driven by demand, and so

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Speaker 2: our belief is we will see an increase in demand

427
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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, starting around Q two. As I mentioned,

428
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Speaker 2: we do think also that as capacity comes out of

429
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Speaker 2: the market, it's not just carrier capacity, but it's also brokers.

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Speaker 2: You know, we had almost thirty thousand brokerages in the

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Speaker 2: US at the peak of the post COVID cycle, and

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Speaker 2: almost five thousand of those brokers have now left the market.

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Speaker 2: And you know that also contributes to pricing in the

434
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Speaker 2: market where you know there's not as many people competing

435
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Speaker 2: the same.

436
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Speaker 1: Loads, right, And what is the state of the brokerage industry?

437
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: Where do you see margins going going from here? And

438
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Speaker 1: maybe give a little bit of background if you will,

439
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: what they look like in twenty twenty four. Obviously, if

440
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: you don't want it, you don't have to give specifics,

441
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: it's your private company. But if you kind of want

442
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: to talk about directional where they were and where they're going,

443
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: where you think they're going.

444
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: You know, we saw significant margin compression post twenty twenty two.

445
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: But I believe in general, the best companies are focused

446
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: on creating the most efficient operations, and so the name

447
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 2: of the game and brokerage going forward is having the

448
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: lowest cost to serve or cost per load in the business.

449
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: And so our focus on technology has been how do

450
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: we make our teams the most productive as possible. As

451
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 2: I mentioned, we're almost three times as productive as we

452
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: were previously due to the technology that we've implemented, and

453
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: so our focus is using the technology, the AI tools

454
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: that are available to make our teams more productive than

455
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 2: they were. That allows them to make more money individually,

456
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: and that allows us as a company to be more

457
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: price competitive for our shippers. So I think the future

458
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 2: of brokerage is you will see consolidation because you know,

459
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 2: a as a smaller broker, it's very difficult to get

460
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: the economies of scale that you see. At our size,

461
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: we're moving across both businesses almost ten thousand loads a

462
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: day in our platform, as I mentioned, almost fifteen billion

463
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: dollars afreight under management, and at that scale we can

464
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: drive significant efficiencies that allows us over time to be

465
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: much more price competitive. So no matter what happens with margins,

466
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 2: we are making money. And it's important to know that.

467
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: You know, even in the worst of the cycle, we

468
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: were always we've always been profitable, and so I think

469
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: that goes to the idea that scale matters, because in

470
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: a scaled organization, you can create significant efficiencies.

471
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: Right you know, you mentioned that you guys were three

472
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: times more productive. That sounds like a home run in

473
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: terms of AI and technology. Are there any home runs

474
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: left or we talk about like the productivity from here

475
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: is going to be like singles and doubles.

476
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: No, I think we're just getting started. I really believe

477
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 2: that some of these tools are just in the first inning.

478
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: You know, the tools that we've implemented are are good,

479
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: but we've got a significant amount of technology spend We're

480
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: going to continue to make this year in the coming

481
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 2: years because we believe, as I mentioned, we're just getting started.

482
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: I think ultimately, you know, the machine to machine aspect

483
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: of this business will continue to grow. We already see

484
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: it with our large customers where we're pricing completely automated,

485
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: We're we're covering completely automated, we're tracking tracking completely automated.

486
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: So you know, a load now can be fully digital

487
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: from from quote all the way to to invoice and

488
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: pain and I think as that continues to grow in

489
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 2: the industry, and more and more shippers adopt API and

490
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: and and dynamic pricing capabilities, then you're going to see

491
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: that that cost pro low continue to drop.

492
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: Do you have any statistics at your organization in terms of,

493
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, what percentage of your transactions are fully automated

494
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: like that from from quote to payment. Yeah.

495
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: On the on the brokerage side, we're now almost half

496
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 2: of our transactions are are are fully digital. On the

497
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: on the transportation insight, you know, we manage that almost

498
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: completely on our TMS, so that we are on behalf

499
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: of our shippers fully digitally managing their freight.

500
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: And when there's an issue, I guess just pick up

501
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: a phone and talk to a human being.

502
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely, That's where the people aspect comes in because at

503
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: the end of the day, people do business with people.

504
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: We build very trusting relationships with our customers, We have

505
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: long term relationships with our customers. On average, we have

506
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: a ninety eight percent retention rate across both the brokerage

507
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: and our TI customer base. And so at the end

508
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: of the day, as I mentioned at the beginning of

509
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: the call, this is a people business. We are investing

510
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: in our people and one of the ways we invest

511
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: in our people is through investing in technology.

512
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: Right, and so you know we've talked about technology a lot.

513
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: I'm assuming everything you guys do is done in house.

514
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: Can you talk about your technology like how big of

515
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: how many people do you have sitting there working on

516
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: that stuff? Yeah.

517
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely. We made a significant investment in our technology platform,

518
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: building a micro services, cloud based proprietary operating system for

519
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: the entire business that was completed in twenty twenty two.

520
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: We did that in a way that we could also

521
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: plug in third party tools very easily because it is

522
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: an API driven platform, and so while our core system

523
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 2: is proprietary, we've also plugged in the best of breed

524
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: third party tools. And so what that allows us to

525
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: do is scale our technology organization very efficiently and use

526
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: people to develop the technology that is proprietary and we

527
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: think creates a competitive advantage for us, but at the

528
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: same time leverage the tools that are out there that

529
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: other really smart people and great companies are producing to

530
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: accelerate what we're doing. So my belief is that we

531
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: don't need to invent everything in house. There's a lot

532
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: of stuff external that we can integrate into our platform.

533
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 3: That's what we've done.

534
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: I think do you give any idea about you know,

535
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: obviously you're spending a lot on technology, you know as

536
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: part of your CAPEX. Can you talk about like is

537
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: it a percentage of your that revenue or anything like that.

538
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: We didn't approach it that way in the beginning. Our

539
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: Our goal was what is it going to take for

540
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: us to become one of the top five organizations in

541
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: the in the country. And we laid out a multi

542
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: year plan and said, here's what we think it's going

543
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: to take, both in terms of growth and productivity, and therefore,

544
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: how can technology help us achieve those goals? And then

545
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: we set aside. We've invested north of one hundred million

546
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: dollars in tech in the last four years, to give

547
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: you a number, So it's a significant piece of our

548
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: our revenue and profit that we've reinvested in the company

549
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: because we believe in the long term of this business.

550
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: We think that the.

551
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: Growth projections over the next five years are staggering as

552
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: the big get bigger, we believe, and there's consolidation in

553
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: the space. So we've approached it less as you know,

554
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: we're going to spend a certain amount of our revenue

555
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: every year, and more about what do we need to

556
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: invest to achieve our goals?

557
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: Gotcha? And you know I mentioned on the onset of

558
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: the conversation that the company is a private company. Kee,

559
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: you talk about the ownership, What are the plans if

560
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: are any.

561
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are backed by Griffin Investors out of San

562
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: Francisco as our private equity sponsor. They acquired Transportation Insight

563
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: and in TG in twenty eighteen. They've been a fantastic partner,

564
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: you know, investing alongside of us, as I mentioned, in

565
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: technology and growing the business. You can see by the

566
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: fact that we're hiring right now that they believe in

567
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: the future of the business. And so it's been a

568
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: great partnership with our owner, and I think they see

569
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: significant growth a head. And so our goal with Griffin

570
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: is to continue to invest in this business and make

571
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: it one of the best businesses in this space.

572
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: Is there anything else facing the freight tranportation logistics industry

573
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: that's on your radar right now that we didn't talk about.

574
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: I believe you know this industry as I mentioned, you know,

575
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: it's a very important industry to the US economy. So

576
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: number one, it's an exciting space to work in. Number Two,

577
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: there's significant challenges to be addressed. It's not a business

578
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: that is simple. Every day, our people are dealing with

579
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: all kinds of issues and so as you look at

580
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: the future of the space, I think taking a monitormdolistic

581
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: look at how it's going to evolve is a bit naive.

582
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: Every segment has a nuanced and a strategy that we're applying. So,

583
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: if it's at the port, how do we automate and

584
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: optimize the drage operations as best we can? Then all

585
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: the way at the final mile, how can we make

586
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: the final mile as efficient as possible so that our

587
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: customers once the container arrives at the port till it's

588
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: delivered to their customer, they have a very efficient supply chain.

589
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: I think AI is transforming the space. As I mentioned,

590
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: we're just in the first endings of that. But many

591
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: of the interfaces that we've seen historically with people logging

592
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: into systems don't need to exist in the future because

593
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: we can meet the customer or the carrier where they

594
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: are with voice for example, and they can just you know,

595
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: talk to us and we can put that into our

596
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: systems or send us email like they traditionally have, and

597
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: we can use AI to read those emails and automated response.

598
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: And so I think the future of this business is

599
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: really exciting. It's massive, it's a big problem solve and

600
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: it's something that I think is going to be continuing

601
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 2: to be a great place to work for a very

602
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: long time.

603
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 1: And is there anything that keeps you up at night

604
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: running a large transportation organization.

605
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: Not much keeps me up at night. I'd like to sleep,

606
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: but I would say, you know, as a leader, I'm

607
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 2: always focused on our people because that's what makes great organizations.

608
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 2: And so what I'm focused on is how can I

609
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: help our people serve their customers and their carriers in

610
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: the best way possible. So, you know, when we have

611
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: customer issues, I try to counsel our team. Those are

612
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: opportunities to provide better service. Some of the best experiences

613
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: I've ever had as a consumer is when a you know,

614
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: somebody messed up in the service they provided me, in

615
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: the way they responded and how they respond to fix

616
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: that made me a customer for life. And so I

617
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: see opportunities all over the place in this industry, and

618
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: what keeps you up at night is how we respond

619
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: to those opportunities and how do we enable our people

620
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: to respond to them in the best way.

621
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: Gotcha and you know, just curious, how did you get

622
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: into the transportation industry? Because I find that most people

623
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: either born into it or they kind of step into it. So,

624
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, how did you find your way into transportation?

625
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, I co founded a reverse

626
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: logistics business with a partner, and so it was a

627
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: space that I didn't have any experience in but decided

628
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: to get into because I saw the potential. At the time,

629
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: you know, with e commerce, reversed logistics really wasn't understood well.

630
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: Even folks like Amazon didn't have a strategy to take

631
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: back all of the stuff that they were shipping out.

632
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: And so we built a reverse logistics platform that we

633
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: ultimately sold to Ingram Micro in twenty thirteen. And so

634
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: through the course of that, you know, built out multiple warehouses,

635
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: leased a lot of trucks, and kind of backed my

636
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: way into transportation just by operating a reverse logistics business.

637
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: And then at Ingram, I ran the global logistics business

638
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: for Ingram and managed almost seven hundred million dollars of

639
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: a freight spend, and so I got a really close

640
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: look across all modes of what the transportation space was like.

641
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: And that's where I really saw the inefficiencies and the

642
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: opportunity to get in and apply technology and better processes

643
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: to make it more efficient. So that's that's what drew

644
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: me to come to transportation Insight in twenty twenty. Is

645
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: just the opportunity to optimize a lot of what I saw.

646
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: As a shipwre And I do like to ask this question,

647
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: my guests, do you have a favorite book about the

648
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: transportation industry or leadership that you know really resonated with you.

649
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: My favorite leadership book is Good to Great. I'll give

650
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: you a bit of a background on it. At twenty

651
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: nine years old, I was I became the CEO of

652
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 2: a company that I had no business leading.

653
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: And.

654
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: I read the book Good the Grade as a way

655
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: to kind of get up to speed on how I

656
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 2: could be a better leader. Because I'm an engineer, I

657
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: like to see, you know, more data driven ideas versus kind.

658
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: Of self help books on leadership.

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00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: And I really liked Jim collins approach to the way

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00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: he approached looking at companies from a data lens. And

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00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: so I applied the principles of Good to Great as

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00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: a twenty nine year old CEO and had had great

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00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 2: success doing it. And that's become you know, one of

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00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: the core foundational principles that I've built my own personal

665
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: leadership principles from is that book? So's that's the book

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00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: that everything started from for me, and I continue to

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00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: believe it's very relevant.

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00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: All right. And before we wrap it up, I like

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Speaker 1: to ask this one as well, So what do you

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00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: like to do outside of work? For fun?

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00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 2: You know, I for stress relief.

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00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 3: I play the guitar.

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00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: I'm not very good at it, but it's I'm a

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00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 2: huge music lover and I love to play guitar. But

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00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: mostly I just like to spend time with my wife

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00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: and my kids, all right. You know, my wife and

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00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: I have been married twenty eight years, and our best friends,

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00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 2: and we just like spending time together. So the time

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00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: that I do have off of work, I like to

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00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: prioritize for my family.

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00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: All right. So then who's your favorite guitarist? Oh?

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00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: Boy, I'll tell you my favorite artist. He's not my

683
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: favorite guitarist, but John Prine is a great song writer

684
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: and all of his songs are more of a fingerpicking

685
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: style and the guitar, and that's where I started learning guitar.

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00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: So that's the kind of style that I play.

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00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: All right. That's great, Well, Ken, I really enjoyed the

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00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: conversation as I catching up with you again and I

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00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: hope to do it again soon.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Lee, great catching up with you.

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Speaker 1: All right, and I also want to thank you for

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00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: tuning in. If you'd like the episode, please subscribe and

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00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: leave a review. We've lined up a number of guests

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00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: for the podcast, so please check back to your conversations

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00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, and decision makers within

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00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: the freight markets. Also, if you want to learn more

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00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: about the freight transportation markets, check out our work on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal at big and on social media. Take care,

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00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: let's keep those supply chains moving. Thanks everyone,