WEBVTT - Thou Shalt Know Your Starting Point 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:04.920 Hi, and welcome to everywhere. I'm your host, Daniel Scheffler. 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.879 I was always traveling from the beginning, and my very 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:16.160 young mother's belly mosying around southern Africa with Ron Stewart 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.959 is a soundtrack to our life together. Maybe this is why, 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.560 thirty plus years later, I have such a bush of 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.759 hair in my head. I don't know. Perhaps more importantly, 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.480 this is why I feel like travel is so much 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.400 a part of who I am. Not in the obvious. 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.440 Let's ask Daniel for some travel advice on where to 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.880 eat in insert city here, but in a much deeper way. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.680 So May West was speaking to me when she said, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:49.360 and I paraphrase, good boys go to heaven, bad boys 0:00:50.320 --> 0:01:01.920 go everywhere. Today's travel commandment thou shalt know your starting point. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.120 I always say my birth mother is normal Gene, not 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.679 quite Marilyn Monroe. But what she did do is travel 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:20.280 with wild, abandoned topless, with the wind through her breasts. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.160 She was in Africa, and so it all felt so 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:28.920 free to her. Okay, let's establish this right now. Africa's 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.720 like that. It helps you lose those strange inhibitions you 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.360 tend to hoard over time. Remember when you were just 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:40.520 a wee lass or lad. You just tried everything twice 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.760 and again if you wanted to, and you did it 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.520 all without thinking about it too much. And here you 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.400 are today and you're questioning whether to go to age 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.920 old incredible Mexico because the media sparks fear in you 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.920 over some border situation. There's something about that scarlet blood 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.000 soil of Africa that stays in my being. I leave 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.160 again and again, and somehow being born in Africa means 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.960 you always get tugged home. That like umbilical cord, is 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.520 so taught. I know it. When I get off the 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.920 plane and I smell that air, it alters me every time, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.080 no matter where I've come from. It smells like the 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:27.760 bush belt, like everywhere animals sweat for kunt. The clouds 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.280 are extra enormous, And when the afternoon rolls in, just 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.520 as you're thinking about a lovely tea time, they do 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.160 a dance of storms. It's louder than what your ears 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.000 think they can handle, and it's wetter than any rain 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:46.280 you've ever felt. Big drops tossed to clean your soul, 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.680 and they come with such a riotous frenzy, and all 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.680 your ships washed away. The drool is always the same. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.640 I kick off my shoes and I find my feet 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.280 banned the sand or soil or somewhere, and it immediately 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.560 roots right there. My feet become the very beginning of 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.320 life as we know it. It taps into centuries of 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:15.120 humanity and all its cruelty and beauty. Only Africa can 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.160 make you cry and laugh all at once. I'm not 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.560 supposing that Africa doesn't have its problems, and I'm not 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.440 suggesting that just because I was born on the continent 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.080 that somehow miraculously I understand it better than But I 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.359 don't know the Koi, sand or others that have been 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.920 there before me. You have spent centuries reveling in it, 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:39.320 protecting it. On the contrary, I'm a white boy from Africa. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.080 I can partially see both the sword and the shield. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.240 I read this beautiful line and in wild the Cheryl 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.920 Strait book, and she was talking to Oprah and they 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.720 were having this conversation and she said something like the 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:59.680 wilderness has a clarity that included me. Okay, sure, granted 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.080 she was talking about the Pacific Crest Trail, but that 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:08.760 somehow stayed with me. Africa shows you exactly that ponder 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.560 about that gorgeous sentence. Once more, isn't the thing we're 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.920 all looking for and maybe the reason we even leave 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.919 to journey across oceans and even now space. Just a 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.920 little more inclusion, please, So I think my birth mother 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.960 must have stuffed me with some of those liberty jeans. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.080 I'm always climbing up a land rover so I can 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.560 watch the wild dogs play, or running up a hills 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.720 so I can see the nearby islands or some open plains. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.160 And then there are these endless mountains I'm hiking up 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.559 to see what I can see from there. In fact, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.240 whenever I get to a city, besides for finding a 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.919 poor over coffee specifically which I'll share more details with 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.520 you in a moment, I try and find a rooftop 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.520 or a hilltop or a uppy uppy situation to observe 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.720 just what I'm dealing with. Let me demonstrate. So, think 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.760 about a city like Santiago, chill Am. You hike a 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.839 little mountain which is right downtown, and of course there's 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.599 like an enormous religious statue looking down at you, possibly 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.480 judging you, And this is where you can survey almost 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.919 the entire city, and those incredible Andy's in the distance. 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.159 So that's how I understand it, and I'm able to 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:33.120 swallow it. Let's think about another place like um, Birmingham, Alabama, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.359 that has the Roman Guard of Fire Vulcan on a 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.920 hilltop right downtown, gleaming down at the southern heyday glimmer 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.640 of a hope city. That's the first thing I did 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.359 as I arrived. I went to hold hands with this 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.479 cast iron, burly bearded, bare bottomed man so that I 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:58.160 could really see the city. Why, actually, I lie. The 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.000 first thing I did as I got off the plane 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.360 in Alabama was to go to a gas station in 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:09.680 this tiny little town annexed to Birmingham for barbecue gas 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.640 in a rub. I was eating flesh at this point, 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.800 and I'm much more plant orientated at the moment. For 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:20.120 all kinds of reasons. We could definitely debate. Life is 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.400 simpler when you can drive a truck full of gas 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.880 and eat a piece of meat. I was told by 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.479 the man behind a smoker. But let's get back to 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.920 the poor of a coffee. When I'm traveling. Before I 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:38.919 arrived somewhere New, whether it's Atlanta, Alaska, or Australia, I 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.880 put into the little Google search bar the following phrase 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:47.200 pour over coffee, enter city here and I pressed searched. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.200 So the theory is that if they serve pour over 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.760 from a Comax or maybe a V sixty and even 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.200 an error press, they probably in lots of certainty take 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:01.479 their beans seriously. So then you know, and this is 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.000 what I know, is that I will find not only 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.800 a fantastic cup of coffee, but probably people who also 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.080 give a shit about their cup. And if we found 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:16.320 naked coffee, I'm kidding, but seriously, of course, there's nothing 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.320 I love more than bearing some skin. I'm not saying 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.000 that I'm a nudist or anything, but since twenty three 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.880 and me says I have some very serious German roots, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.920 we could do a whole episode dedicated to the German 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:33.840 love for Barden Barda on a kleinder I of course 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.280 proposed to my new Jersey Italian husband. In the nude. 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.880 We were leisurely swimming off the coast of Sicily near 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.360 some terribly old ruins and agrigento. There were Dover style 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.960 cliffs over to the left and some fucking crazy Game 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.360 of Thrones castles to the right, in a place called 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:57.400 the lovely sounding Reservo naturale di ponta bianca in my 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:04.120 best Italian. So think about it. Proposing while travel, Well, 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.440 that makes sense, that's what you want to do in 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:11.280 the nude. Even more sense. Whilst you're traveling. Maybe your 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.480 guard is down a little and you're more open to something. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.720 The dog isn't waiting for you to take her out, 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.800 and there's some magic ship that's about to happen. Well, 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.120 travel gives you that little opening cranny in the universe 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.000 to promise your whole heart to someone. And my Jersey 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.000 boy is always busy. It's hard to get his full 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.199 attention on anything. And I mean, let's not even try 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.000 and get his undivided attention. But you know it, deserted 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.760 soft heeably beach with waves quietly kissing your feet and 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.600 inviting you in for a dip in the nude. Hell, yes, 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.240 that held his attention. Not because it's dramatic and not 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.600 because it's a selfie inducing moment, but because we were 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.679 there together and the skies opened up and gave us 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:02.480 this private moment to share our love discuss, and that's 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.160 was the starting point, like no other Michael and I 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.480 starting in life together, just like the one my bio 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.040 mom had envisioned, and then a life was changed forever. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.560 I'm gonna pause this right here for a moment for 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.840 our sponsors to weigh in, But do come back to 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.160 hear more about where I've been scooting around this week. 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:36.280 Trade tables up. You're returning to everywhere land. That's my 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.559 experience with Secily. Now I also like to think about 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.280 it in terms of now and then, So I'm inviting 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.400 my dear friend Holly onto the show to give us 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.200 that then. Yes, so we're only going to focus on 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.200 a little bit of them, because history, of course is 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.360 very rich in Sicily. There is a lot to discuss 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.400 and talk about. And this is going to sound perhaps 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.360 a bit almost morbid compared to your story, but there's 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:05.559 a reason I want to go there. I want to 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.000 talk a little bit about its military history. Uh, there 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:13.280 are ruins near where you proposed to your beloved. He 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.840 saw them, maybe didn't fully process them. No, I was 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:21.040 non processing mind elsewhere. Totally understandable. The Deluty Military Battery 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.120 is there, and that has been there since early on 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.520 in the twentieth century. It was built between nineteen fifteen 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.000 and ninety three, so around World War One. But what 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:31.760 we really want to talk about in terms of what 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.360 makes Sicily important in world history. Is World War two. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.120 I thought you were going to say the wine culture, 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.960 all the delicious press. Judo no, no, also very important 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.560 on both points. But when Secily was invaded by the 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:52.640 Allies on July tenth three, that was known as Operation Husky, 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.960 it was a very very important moment in the war. 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.679 It's one of those places that I think, again to 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.719 Western ears, we think of this Lee is a very 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.120 small part of the world, or a small part of Europe, 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.040 but it was really pivotal that actually is considered by 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.640 many historians to be one of the most important Anglo 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.720 American campaigns of the war. For one, it was the 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.040 first time that the Western Allies made an assault on 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.520 what was called Fortress Europe in essence, and it also 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:26.720 became this important experiential learning curve for the Allied forces, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.480 Like they took from that a lot of knowledge and 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.680 a lot of experience and a lot of learning that 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:33.920 they then could apply to the rest of the war 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.240 going forward. But here is the thing that to me 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.439 is always very very important whenever we talk about historical 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.760 wars or any military action. It's really easy to lose 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.040 sight of the fact that those are real people involved. 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.320 We tend to talk about, you know, the dates and 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.800 the names and how power changed, but there were young 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.920 men there that didn't all make it out. The Allies 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.880 had twenty three thousand casualties at Cecil. That is a 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.240 lot of people. That is still the smallest number that 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.040 I'm about to use in this quick statistics list. German 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.880 forces had thirty thousand casualties, but the Italians had a 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.840 hundred and thirty five thousand and a hundred thousand access 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.760 troops were captured. So those were a lot of young men. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.600 But here's really why it ended up shifting part of 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.880 the war, because at this point, by the spring of 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:30.280 ninety three, Mussolini was in some trouble. Like his own 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.280 people were, We're starting to rise against him. There were 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.840 opposition groups that were forming. There were people that were saying, like, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.360 I really think we should make peace with the Allies. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.559 I really think we should broker some sort of situation 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.560 and get out of this ward and wine to get 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.600 that right. Let's all be cool. Who wouldn't prefer that. 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.640 It's hard for me to understand why anyone would otherwise. 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.880 But the problem was that there was a lot of 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.120 German military presence in Italy at the time, so it 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.280 wasn't like they could just easily go, Nope, we're voting 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.800 on this, we have changed our minds, were washing our 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.280 hands of this war. They couldn't. There were German forces 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.040 literally everywhere, So that is sort of why this becomes 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.240 so pivotal. Uh. Sicily had been part of Italy since 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.280 eighteen sixties, so it was considered a very important part 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.840 of the country. So before that it was ruled by 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.880 the Bourbons and it was considered a different municipality. And 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.160 then it actually merged with the Kingdom of Sardinia in 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.600 eighteen sixty technically and then became part of the Kingdom 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.079 of Italy officially in eighteen sixty one. This is why 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.040 all the American Italians go to Scillate to uncover all 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.960 this history. Yeah, and it's kind of like the heartland 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.080 in many ways. And also we've discussed the delicious things 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:49.439 that come from there. Right now, happily, put down those headphones. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.640 Let's go. You don't really have to ask me thrice, 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.160 but don't ask me a second time because we got 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:59.200 to finish this segment. So when uh, this invasion happened. 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.560 What was happening in Rome was that this was really 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.880 such a hard hit on Italy, particularly again considering those 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.840 casualty numbers, that Mussolini's government began to just collapse. And 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.280 so two weeks after the Allies invaded Sicily on July, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.360 he was forced to resign by the Fascist Grand Council. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.560 He was actually arrested that day, And in essence, this 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:28.040 removed Italy from the war, from the They're Little Access 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.040 agreement and they were no longer part of it, and 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.480 that meant one more country that the Allies were not fighting, 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.840 So that made it very very important. What's really really lovely, though, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.680 is that there has been this waiting for the loveliness 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.920 to comes. Loveliness coming. Military history is often really dark, 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:44.800 but I think very important. You can't turn away from 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.000 those things because they are part of our shared history. Uh. 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.240 In the twenty teens and efforts started to make it 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.680 into a nature preserve. At this point, like you saw them, 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:59.040 the military buildings there have all largely collapsed or you know, crumbled. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.440 So environmental groups convened in Palermo in they actually asked 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.920 the Italian Army to also be part of these because 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.480 they wanted to make sure that the military history of 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.320 the area was documented, just as they were preserving all 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.160 of the natural things that have grown there. They also 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:16.960 want to make sure we don't lose any of that 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.520 in the process. But what I really love about your 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.520 story and why this is so important to me to 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.480 talk about these unfortunate things that happened there and these 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.280 young men that lost their lives there, is that because 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.160 this is a place that has seen blood and pain 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.240 and horror, and yet you have found it to be 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.800 a place that is nothing but beauty and charm and magic. 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.320 And you add to that by sharing your love with 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.480 someone else there and then in turn sharing it with us. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.400 So to me, like these are the moments that redeem 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.960 the ugliness of humanity, is that people find a way 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.520 to get through that and then build something else beautiful 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.040 in those same spots. Holly, I know you're crying, but 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.960 I'm going to cry, but that's how I feel. I mean, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.800 when I proposed to Michael, it wasn't planning for it 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:08.080 to be necessarily on a military area, But now that 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.760 you told me this, my proposal to him and I'll 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.800 love together is somehow more meaningful to me like somehow, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.000 like the two of us, two men in the freedom 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.640 of the century, can come and be together. And I 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.400 love found at a place which is wasn't about love, 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.800 was about fear and about hatred. Yeah, you have made 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.480 this place for a lot of young men died into 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.080 a place where young men shared love. And to me, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.000 that's what makes it magical. That's what makes traveling the 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.920 way you do such a beautiful thing. Like you can 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.240 heal these spaces where bad things have happened in some 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:50.000 ways and in absolute the same vein the place can 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:55.480 heal you. That's why I find myself trying to leave 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.360 my house and pack a bag and climb on another 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.680 flight is in fact the possibility that I could get healed. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.240 And then there's this beautiful synergy where that place now 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.560 is so unbelievably beautiful that it also heals you in return, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.119 and you kind of create this this beautiful um infinity 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.440 of sort of a healing energy that goes back and forth. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:18.800 That sounds a little hippi or dippier than I usually get, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.040 but I think to build on really your whole message, right, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.800 Like you have the opportunity when you travel to heal 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.240 places with your own love like that's part of what 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.680 makes humanity great, as a counterpoint to all the things 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.200 that can sometimes make humanity not so great. So thank 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.000 you for adding love to the world, and to that 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.480 part of the world in particular. I love that you're 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.840 crying everything. You can throw a glitter in the air 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.000 and yell kittens, and I'll probably cry, But this is 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.240 to me very meaningful. Let's take a break to him 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.960 from our sponsors, and we'll be right back with more 0:17:54.000 --> 0:18:01.760 travel from everywhere. The time has come from everywhere. Now 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:08.800 where were we? Welcome back? I was in Washington, d C. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:14.159 Recently interviewing Stephanie Stebsh, the director of the Smithsonian American 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:18.120 Art Museum. We spent the morning chatting about using art 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.800 as a way to better understand America, and I could 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.280 listen to her for the rest of my life. Hi, Stephanie, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.800 Hello Daniel. It is so lovely to be in d 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.720 C with you. Thank you for having me. I wish 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:33.840 I could offer you a perfect day. Yesterday was a 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.680 perfect day for the cherry blossoms. It's true. I saw 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.360 some cherry blossoms, and I'm thrilled to be in DC 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.720 at this time of the year. I've never done it before. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.840 So well, once you see the cherry blossoms that it 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.320 suggests a return visit, sort of like seeing Mount Fuji 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.840 tells you that you're going to return to Easter. Tell 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.840 me exactly what you do in d c stefinitely. I 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:59.880 work at the Smithsonian, which is best described in Forward 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.800 Everything under the Sun, And if you know the Smithsonian, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:05.840 it's a sun symbol, so that works well for us. 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.920 But in truth it is the largest museum and research 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.640 complex in the world. And in the family of Smithsonian museums, 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.879 of which there are nineteen, I run two of them. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.200 Can we back up one second, I want to talk 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:25.000 about crafting. Before moving to America, I had never crafted anything. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.879 For me, Crafting is this very American thing. Tell me 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.760 a little bit about crafting as an American thing. Well, Daniel, 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.560 I think language is important. So when we talk about craft, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.200 craft can be both a noun the object, the crafted object, 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.320 and it also can be a verb the way you're 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.920 using it. And I would say today, in particularly, we're 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.679 living in the midst of a maker's movement like Etsy 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:56.439 Etsy craft beer, you know, handcrafted bread's artisanal. Back to 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.320 the making of the hand. And if you know your history, 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.440 which I imagine you do, Uh, there was the industrial Revolution, 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.560 and there was a counter revolution. So just as things 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.640 were becoming mechanized and and you made the same which 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.040 in many ways was an innovation in and of itself, 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.560 to repeat in making the exact same kind of object, 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.200 there was a counter movement led by artists, of course, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.000 to go back to the handmaid, to go back to 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.359 the human scale. And that, of course took place mostly 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.000 in the realm of craft, whether it was a wallpaper 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:32.120 by William Morris, or crafted objects and furniture like good 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.919 stuff Stickley here in the United States, or pottery or 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.520 iron work. That was a moment at the turn of 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.840 the nineteenth century. Now, of course, we live in a 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.400 moment where once again I would say, we almost don't 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.520 know how things are made anymore. So some days I 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.280 want to go back to the handmaid. It is meditative, 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.720 it is quiet, and we even see it in the 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.000 industrial world. Have you been to a Nike store recently? 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.439 I have. They now have a counter and many of 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.000 them that invite you to make your own exactly. Now, 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.119 some people are terrified that I would like just the 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:12.760 regular choices. Others are excited to be invited to create 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.560 their own versions, and I think it speaks a little 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.800 bit too identity America as very distinctive, as you know 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.280 in your travels. Uh, one place feels very different than 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.760 another place, and yet it can feel the same. Right 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.880 we have, We've shared malls across the country. Sometimes it's 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.600 comforting to travel again as I did as a child, 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.200 and know there would be the comforts of a holiday 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.679 in everywhere you went there was a happy sameness. Or 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.119 even McDonald's, I know the menu, and again with every movement, 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.480 I think there's always a happy counter movement, and then 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.879 suddenly you felt, well, shouldn't I be seeing something that's 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:51.200 unique to this place, whether again it's food or fashion 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.800 or architecture. And that's why I'm such a big fan 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.679 of when you travel you should go to museums. I 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.880 fully agree we should talk about that a lot, indeed, 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.719 and not just art museums, which talk about the creativity 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.320 of a place, of a region, of a moment. But 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.200 I like going to um Charlotte, North Carolina and going 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.359 to the Museum of the New South and learning about 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.119 how air conditioning forever change to the South, not something 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.600 I thought about before I had gone into that museum 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.439 and saw fabious exhibition on that topic. Well, isn't that 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.320 the point of your museum? This very museum we're in, 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:31.080 like it inspires you to travel America and beyond in 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.120 ways that you may not have thought about. People travel 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:39.879 and they don't realize that museums are ecilitarian. It's for everybody. 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.720 There's nothing to be scanned of of a museum. I 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.560 certainly think so. I always um am fascinated by the 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.679 house in which the museum sits. There's a great movement 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.200 to create new museums, and they often are in brand 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:57.800 new buildings with fabius architecture, often signature architecture, and of 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:01.440 course also museums are set in history buildings. That's our case. 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.199 We sit in the old Patent Office, which is actually 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.399 one of the most spectacular buildings, a great example of 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:12.159 Greek Revival architecture. But more importantly, it's the house of 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.720 American ingenuity, and the driving force of America in many 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:21.439 ways is entrepreneurship, is creating new things, is mechanization, is 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.280 um making improvements. So of course you'd expect to see 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.159 a few patents that we have still kept here in 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.600 some of the wonderful shelves of the old Patent Office building. 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:33.919 One of my favorites to point out to people is 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.320 an effort to improve the mouse trap. Why do you 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:42.679 think people don't understand museums? People travel to all over 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:44.040 the world, and you're like, yeah, I should go to 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.359 the museum, and it's almost an obligation, like, oh, like, 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.159 I guess i'm here in Barcelona, let me go to 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.879 the product or oh, I'm in South Africa, I should 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.760 see the Holocaust Museum in Cape Town or the Apotheid Museum. 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.639 And and my whole thing is, don't see it as 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:03.320 an obligation. Don't see it like a whole day adventure. 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.600 Go for an hour, go for ten minutes, go and 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:12.320 explore in a way that's yaws, opposed to the museum 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:14.879 telling you how. And that's like, I don't know if 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:19.080 you guys have been to museum. Heck they do, I've 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.080