Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have a guest. I'm just gonna go
Speaker 1: over some listener questions. You know, a lot of times
Speaker 1: we interview somebody, we talk about turkey hunting, and maybe
Speaker 1: some of those tactics are too advanced, or maybe those
Speaker 1: tactics don't make sense to him yet. So I've been
Speaker 1: getting a lot of questions by maybe a big game
Speaker 1: hunter or somebody just wanting to get into turkey hunting,
Speaker 1: and they've got a lot of questions on what do
Speaker 1: they need, what's a minimum, what do they have to have,
Speaker 1: What's you know, something that's nice to have but not
Speaker 1: necessarily needed.
Speaker 2: So I was just gonna take.
Speaker 1: Today's time and just kind of go over that for
Speaker 1: a new turkey hunter.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the middle of January, late January.
Speaker 1: Now, turkey hunt's kind of right around the corner, and
Speaker 1: for those that haven't did it, it may be a
Speaker 1: little bit of a daunting task on what do you need?
Speaker 1: And if you're a beginner turkey hunter or a season
Speaker 1: turkey hunter, there may be a few things you can
Speaker 1: pick up during this episode that you did or didn't
Speaker 1: already know. So the first thing we're gonna go, We're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna skip the listener questions today and we're
Speaker 1: just gonna go into a list of questions that that
Speaker 1: I've kind of copy and pasted in here from people
Speaker 1: over the over the last couple of months they want
Speaker 1: to get into Turkey, and then we'll go through those.
Speaker 1: So what do you need as a minimum to go
Speaker 1: out in the Turkey woods? I would say ideally you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to have either one a twenty you know,
Speaker 1: or a twelve gage shotgun. With some of the new ammunition,
Speaker 1: you can actually get away now with some of these
Speaker 1: four tens with specific ammo loaded four four turkeys, you know,
Speaker 1: with the with the with TSS coming online the way
Speaker 1: it has, and some of the things you've been able
Speaker 1: to do with some of the smaller shots, four ten
Speaker 1: is now a very very good option for the youth
Speaker 1: or for anybody on turkeys. I would say twenty and
Speaker 1: twelve gages are still more widely used, just a little
Speaker 1: more range, a little denser pattern typically, So you either
Speaker 1: need a shotgun or if you want to take on archery,
Speaker 1: you know, turke handing out of the gate, your bow
Speaker 1: set up will will do as well. You know, there
Speaker 1: are other states that allow for other other weapons, but
Speaker 1: for for today, we're just going to talk shotguns and
Speaker 1: and archery equipment. Shotgun is easy to understand. You're you're
Speaker 1: looking to get a hit on the head, neck area,
Speaker 1: you know. And we're going to get into to AMMO
Speaker 1: a little bit as well. But one thing you need
Speaker 1: to do is find a good ammunition. And I just
Speaker 1: mentioned TSS, and I would say TSS makes the four
Speaker 1: tens a viable option. But if you're if you're wanting
Speaker 1: to do this on a on a budget and don't
Speaker 1: want to shoot a shotgun shell that's anywhere from five
Speaker 1: to fifteen dollars a piece, I would recommend you you
Speaker 1: just you got a pattern your gun. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of different manufacturers out there that make you know,
Speaker 1: fours and fives and six's, whether it's heavy shot, whether
Speaker 1: your state allows lead or copper plated lead, whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. Just go pattern your gun. And when I
Speaker 1: go to pattern my shotgun, I'm not looking for a
Speaker 1: certain number of hits within a certain you know area.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: three to four hits within the neck and brain area.
Speaker 1: What I'm looking for is I typically draw like a
Speaker 1: ten inch circle, which and then within that tenant circle,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a very even, uniform and as dense
Speaker 1: of pattern as I can get. I want there to
Speaker 1: not be you know, too many areas in there that
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a BB within like a one inch circle,
Speaker 1: you know, out out to about thirty yards, and then
Speaker 1: checking for the the effect inness is that that load.
Speaker 1: You know, some of these tss that I do shoot
Speaker 1: out of my twelve gage, you know, I can keep
Speaker 1: that sort of pattern density all the way out to
Speaker 1: fifty or sixty yards just because there's so many of
Speaker 1: those number eights or number nine's in that shot that
Speaker 1: you know, my my pattern is is viable, you know,
Speaker 1: out to that fifty yard range. Now do I want
Speaker 1: to shoot a turkey out there? Ideally? No, But knowing
Speaker 1: your gun's capabilities and also, uh, you know, with that load,
Speaker 1: you need to you need to find the load.
Speaker 2: That your gun with your choke shoots. Well.
Speaker 1: Just because your buddy has the same gun you do
Speaker 1: and the same choke you do and search uh you know,
Speaker 1: shoots a certain type of AMMO doesn't necessarily mean that
Speaker 1: that gun is going to shoot identical to your buddies. Now,
Speaker 1: the chances of it shooting similar are more likely, but
Speaker 1: you still need to go pattern and test your own gun,
Speaker 1: your own load to make sure that that's you know,
Speaker 1: a good option. Now, if you're going out with archery gear,
Speaker 1: there are different trains of thought. You know, they've got
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of broadhead companies have specific you
Speaker 1: know broadheads with with very large cutting diameters for you know,
Speaker 1: shooting them in the head. They're also you can use
Speaker 1: standard you know broadheads, expandables, fixed blades and uh you know,
Speaker 1: shoot them in the vitals just like you would. You know,
Speaker 1: like like you're big game hunting, I personally, you know,
Speaker 1: aside from the kill zones that are put on the
Speaker 1: turkey targets, I've never went out and archie hunted turkeys
Speaker 1: until this year. And so you know that's one thing
Speaker 1: that I'm going to have to educate myself on a
Speaker 1: little bit more. Is based on shooting angles and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, vitals kind of where where I'm gonna need
Speaker 1: to aim, you know, on a on a big game,
Speaker 1: I've kind of got it dialed. You no matter which
Speaker 1: angle the animal is, I know where the vitals are,
Speaker 1: where I can get through what that bone structure looks
Speaker 1: like on a turkey. I'm gonna have to kind of
Speaker 1: refresh where the vitals sit, you know, if it's not
Speaker 1: a headshot, where where's a good shot. And then also,
Speaker 1: you know, an archery hunter has got the big drawback.
Speaker 2: Of not being seen.
Speaker 1: Why you try to draw your boats a lot of times.
Speaker 1: If if these tombs are in full strut or whatnot,
Speaker 1: you need to figure out when you can draw your bow,
Speaker 1: not be seen and be able to be an efficient archery,
Speaker 1: you know, turkey hunter. So with that said, those are
Speaker 1: kind of the two things you need to turkey hunt.
Speaker 1: And you know, aside from a license or a tag
Speaker 1: for your respective state or the respective area you want
Speaker 1: to hunt, I would say that's really all that's required
Speaker 1: for turkey hunting. A weapon, a tag, and license. Everything
Speaker 1: from there on turkey hunting is going to be a
Speaker 1: bonus or a luxury at that point.
Speaker 2: Do you need calls? No? Do you need decoys no?
Speaker 2: Do you have to have a blind No.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things you can do, especially on
Speaker 1: certain turkeys that are patternable or if you scout them,
Speaker 1: you can just set up on their their travel paths
Speaker 1: and do just fine. Now, that isn't why I set
Speaker 1: out every spring to turkey hunt. I want to interact
Speaker 1: with the bird. I want to get them to gobble.
Speaker 1: I want to be on their path. But being a
Speaker 1: well rounded turkey hunter, being able to use some of
Speaker 1: that scouting and some of that path you know, pathways
Speaker 1: and stuff that the turkeys just naturally want to use,
Speaker 1: will go a long ways in allowing me to be
Speaker 1: in the right spot to call them in. So let's
Speaker 1: go into t like camo does. Do you need specific
Speaker 1: leafy suits or will any camo do? I guess I'll
Speaker 1: start off it. That really depends on whether you're in
Speaker 1: a blind or not. If you're in a blind, black
Speaker 1: clothes on a travel path would work just fine. Like
Speaker 1: you don't need to have you know, the best camo.
Speaker 2: Out there. Now, I will.
Speaker 1: Say movement is more important or lack of movement is
Speaker 1: more important than camo in my opinion, whether you're wearing
Speaker 1: the best camo completely concealed, if you move at the
Speaker 1: wrong time when that turkey can see you, if they
Speaker 1: if they detect anything out of the norm, they're gonna
Speaker 1: typically bust and you're not going to get a second
Speaker 1: chance at them. If this is a new turkey hunter,
Speaker 1: you haven't got a chance to experience just how much
Speaker 1: they pick up and how slight of movement they will
Speaker 1: pick up. You'll be you'll be in for a surprise
Speaker 1: when you go to you know, to to move your
Speaker 1: foot or your foots a sleep and you move one
Speaker 1: way or the other way, they're there.
Speaker 2: They they will pick it up.
Speaker 1: So when I'm turkey hunting, movement is sloth like slow.
Speaker 1: If I've got to bring the gun up, if I've
Speaker 1: got a pan, everything is very deliberate and very very slow,
Speaker 1: like over exaggerated slow to get my gun in position,
Speaker 1: unless I need to make a quick shot or I
Speaker 1: can swing really quick and no, I'm gonna get on it.
Speaker 2: Everything else I do is very subtle.
Speaker 1: We'll get into calling in a little bit, but even
Speaker 1: as far as running box calls, pot calls, mouth calls,
Speaker 1: if that movement's involved and you think they can see it,
Speaker 1: you need to be smart about when you're calling and
Speaker 1: when they when they can pick it up. So Camo,
Speaker 1: I say, it's best to wear a cameo that fits
Speaker 1: in with the area you're hunting. You want to you
Speaker 1: want to be as natural and and and you want
Speaker 1: to disappear as much as possible, and you're surrounding myself.
Speaker 1: I'm a tree sitter. I don't like to be in
Speaker 1: a blind I don't you know, put myself buying a
Speaker 1: pile of brush. I found that I can't shoot as
Speaker 1: well if I and and while you're trying not to
Speaker 1: make noise, if you've got to swing your gun or
Speaker 1: you you know, try to get drawn in a brush pile,
Speaker 1: it's going to be detrimental. So I try to sit
Speaker 1: in front of a clear tree, let the tree break
Speaker 1: up my my outline and use that to my advantage.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, when you set up on the tree,
Speaker 1: one thing you need to be looking for as a
Speaker 1: turkey hunter is that you've got clear shooting lanes out
Speaker 1: in front of you that you didn't give yourself, like
Speaker 1: little small slivers on where you expect that turkey to
Speaker 1: be coming from.
Speaker 2: So camo.
Speaker 1: Not acquired, but definitely, in my opinion, adds to you know,
Speaker 1: the success of a turkey hunter. And let's you get
Speaker 1: away with a little bit more movement. Now on the
Speaker 1: same topic as camel, like, are there any you know,
Speaker 1: absolutely do not it to white turkey hunting, and I
Speaker 1: would say colors that you'll see on turkeys that you
Speaker 1: want to shoot. So let's say a Tom reds, whites,
Speaker 1: and blues. You know, the color of tom turkey's heads.
Speaker 1: You especially on public land, maybe not as important on
Speaker 1: private land, but I would still definitely avoid those colors.
Speaker 1: Don't wear red, white, and blue, if at all possible.
Speaker 1: You know why you're wire hunting. It's just it's there's
Speaker 1: no need to, and all you do is open yourself
Speaker 1: up to the potential of somebody that doesn't identify their
Speaker 1: game very well. You know, there's been lots of horse
Speaker 1: stories of people being shot in the Turkey woods, so
Speaker 1: we just want to avoid that if possible. One thing
Speaker 1: that does kind of go along with camel as well
Speaker 1: is face mask.
Speaker 2: Is there any need for face covering?
Speaker 1: And I don't have any scientific backup for this, but
Speaker 1: I feel like a turkey both eye eye contact and
Speaker 1: like facial recognition, Like it's one of those things that
Speaker 1: a turkey will pick up.
Speaker 2: More so than not. And so I always wear a
Speaker 2: face covering as much.
Speaker 1: Of my nose, my mouth, you know, chin everything that
Speaker 1: I can basically just leaving my eyes exposed, I found
Speaker 1: seems to get me picked off a little less than
Speaker 1: than by by you know, not wearing a face covering
Speaker 1: or just having face paint on or whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: A full covering mask seems to be the ticket. Let's
Speaker 1: move into scouting. You can be the greatest color in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: You know you can.
Speaker 1: You can travel a bunch of distance, you can do
Speaker 1: a lot of things to make up for this. But
Speaker 1: I feel like all of that aside scouting your area.
Speaker 1: Knowing where the birds are at, knowing where the birds
Speaker 1: want to be, is going to be one of the
Speaker 1: best things you can do to ensure that you're going
Speaker 1: to have some success come your spring season. With that said,
Speaker 1: we also need to be very wreck you know, we
Speaker 1: need to recognize and be conscious of those If you're
Speaker 1: scouting earlier, let's say, into March or early April, that
Speaker 1: flock and where those birds are at is going to
Speaker 1: change fairly drastically from from the start of that scouting,
Speaker 1: you know, mid March, to the start of hunting season
Speaker 1: in April. And so if you were to go on
Speaker 1: a scouting trip mid March and come back over on
Speaker 1: the opener, you know, April fifteenth, come back over on
Speaker 1: your trip May first. Whatever it may be, those trickies
Speaker 1: are going to be a different areas. The flocks are
Speaker 1: going to look different than the dynamics of those flocks
Speaker 1: are going to be different. And so the closer you
Speaker 1: can scout two season and ensure that those birds are
Speaker 1: where you think they are, the better likelihood of them
Speaker 1: being there is which you know not to be obvious,
Speaker 1: but but the closer the yard of season. It's just
Speaker 1: something I've heard over and over. They went and scouted
Speaker 1: middle of March there antsy coming off a winner to
Speaker 1: go to go look for you know, turkeys, They find them,
Speaker 1: and then they go back in the middle of April.
Speaker 1: And then the next message I get is where the
Speaker 1: turkeys out? Why aren't they in that area where I
Speaker 1: had them? Everywhere, you know, typically during the you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's human pressure, whether it's just areas they want
Speaker 1: to be in. Did they fallow the snow line up?
Speaker 1: It just really depends where you're hunting and what those
Speaker 1: birds want to do. I know, the place we hunt
Speaker 1: in Kansas, the earlier in the season, the better that
Speaker 1: property holds the birds early. But then as the as
Speaker 1: the you know, spring goes on, those toms continue to
Speaker 1: disperse and cover more ground, and kind of they don't
Speaker 1: all leave his property, but they definitely become thinner on
Speaker 1: some of those properties. Here in Washington where we're hunting,
Speaker 1: you know, mountain country. A lot of times we still
Speaker 1: have snow fairly low middle of April, and as you know,
Speaker 1: May Mega moves on and that snow line's moving up.
Speaker 1: Some of those birds will walk up the mountain with
Speaker 1: the snow line. So you could see those birds move. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're only five hundred feet up in elevation, but they
Speaker 1: might be a couple miles away as they as they
Speaker 1: moved up. So you got to keep all of that
Speaker 1: in mind as you're scouting for birds and then kind
Speaker 1: of where you're gonna find them come season. Do you
Speaker 1: need decoys or not? I always have decoys with me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: When I first started and couldn't afford anything, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of like the Flambeau little foam folder decoys
Speaker 1: I could throw in the back of my vest. Now
Speaker 1: I tend to carry a life sized Dave Smith around
Speaker 1: with me, at least a hen, if not a hen
Speaker 1: and a jake. I will say, especially in Kansas on easterns.
Speaker 1: When we were running and gunning in Washington last year,
Speaker 1: we did pack one of the hens around, but we
Speaker 1: didn't have as much time to set her up. On
Speaker 1: certain scenarios. It's been a little hit or miss. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you will see, you know, birds decoy perfect, They'll they'll
Speaker 1: see the decoy, they'll come in. Other times they'll see
Speaker 1: the decoy maybe out of place, or it just it
Speaker 1: surprised them and it hasn't worked. So I would I
Speaker 1: would recommend everybody play with it see if it works
Speaker 1: for you. I've had great success with them, and I've
Speaker 1: had times where I wondered, like, huh, I wonder if
Speaker 1: I didn't have a decoy out there, if it would
Speaker 1: have worked. So it's it's really trying to find your
Speaker 1: own way to hunt. I always have decoys with me,
Speaker 1: whether we elect to use them or not. As a
Speaker 1: different story, if I'm in I would say my general
Speaker 1: thumb is if I'm in a spot where that decoy
Speaker 1: can get the tricky's eyes off of me, or can
Speaker 1: be seen from a long ways away. You know, if
Speaker 1: they're gonna be on a on a power line meadow,
Speaker 1: or or they're gonna be somewhere where they can see
Speaker 1: along ways and that decoy can get their attention.
Speaker 2: Will typically put it out.
Speaker 1: If we're in tight, if we're in the timber or
Speaker 1: a bird, it's not the visual is not going to
Speaker 1: be to our advantage, then we'll typically leave, you know,
Speaker 1: just set the bag next to our chair.
Speaker 2: And go with that.
Speaker 1: Do you need to bring blinds or makeshift ground blinds
Speaker 1: out in the woods. I'm I don't like being tied
Speaker 1: up in an area. Now, if you've got really good
Speaker 1: info and you've scouted well, and you know birds are
Speaker 1: likely to come by, you know, get your blind out early.
Speaker 1: Make make it so it's not you know, surprise that
Speaker 1: the turkey on Opening Dale beside. You know, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden a blind shows up.
Speaker 2: You can use them. I like to be more mobile.
Speaker 1: I like to kind of run and gun, regardless of
Speaker 1: whether I'm you know, hunting Easterns or or Rio's or
Speaker 1: Marriam's here in Washington.
Speaker 2: I like to stay mobile.
Speaker 1: But on that same thread, what I do like to
Speaker 1: do is carry some pruning shears because a lot of
Speaker 1: times there may be brush that's in a way or
Speaker 1: an area where you want to set up where you've
Speaker 1: got good visibility, but some of the brush, like within
Speaker 1: five to ten yards, makes it so you can't. You
Speaker 1: can cut that out of your way, cut it out
Speaker 1: in a way where you can still see, but kind
Speaker 1: of gives you some concealment. And that's That's one thing
Speaker 1: I do like to do is cut myself into a hole.
Speaker 1: I've got good visibility, maybe not giving up my entire
Speaker 1: face by cutting out limbs and making so that you
Speaker 1: can see out and get a shot if needed. So
Speaker 1: rather than carry blinds or concealment cloth or makeshift blind material,
Speaker 1: we typically bring shears and we can we can kind
Speaker 1: of brush ourselves in or add some brush as.
Speaker 2: Needed, so that kind of goes for gear.
Speaker 1: The last thing I'll talk about, and I would say
Speaker 1: this is definitely a luxury, not a requirement. There have
Speaker 1: been plenty of days where I've got call kind of
Speaker 1: stuffed in all my pockets, says do you need a
Speaker 1: vest or do you need a pack of any sort?
Speaker 1: I grew up Tricky Hunton. I always had a vest
Speaker 1: of some sort. You know, back in the day, I
Speaker 1: think I was running like a primos. One of Will's
Speaker 1: vest that was, you know, I had all kinds of
Speaker 1: pockets and holes and you know, striker holders and showholders
Speaker 1: and why I loved it, there is room for everything.
Speaker 1: It was pretty heavy, and on some of these warmer
Speaker 1: days when you get into early May, becomes a warmer option.
Speaker 1: It seemed to be a lot nowadays. You know Paul
Speaker 1: fhf He's designed an Apex belt. I was able to
Speaker 1: test it. You know, last year they released it limited
Speaker 1: release here prior to twenty three and then it should
Speaker 1: be a full release for twenty four. I really like
Speaker 1: it because it's really streamlined. It allows me to keep
Speaker 1: a chest pack on it, lets me have some some
Speaker 1: pockets on the belt. But it's it's a very lightweight,
Speaker 1: breathable system. And I don't feel like I've got a heavy,
Speaker 1: cumbersome vest on as I hunt. So a vest is
Speaker 1: another one of those things where it's not a requirement.
Speaker 2: It is. It is a luxury.
Speaker 1: But for those that have them, or can afford them
Speaker 1: or want them, it can definitely be a nice addition.
Speaker 1: For sure, you get the season and a lot of guys,
Speaker 1: you know, you need to locate turkeys and and this
Speaker 1: is different whether I'm in Kansas or around home in Kansas,
Speaker 1: a lot of times we may not even roost birds
Speaker 1: because they typically if they don't get bumped off of
Speaker 1: those trees, they will typically roost in those same trees.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times we will go out at
Speaker 1: night listen, but we're not so dead set on roosting
Speaker 1: those turkeys as we are. Let's say we're in eastern
Speaker 1: Washington and these birds are falling the snow lineup, or
Speaker 1: these merriams are all over the mountain side. They will
Speaker 1: roost potentially in a different spot night after night after night.
Speaker 1: And we found that if we don't go roost birds
Speaker 1: here in eastern Washington, or you know, the same goes
Speaker 1: for the Idaho mountain birds or so on Montana birds,
Speaker 1: it's a little more important. So we go out every night,
Speaker 1: you know about that time of fly up, so I
Speaker 1: would say, you know about you know, sundown on. You know,
Speaker 1: they'll be on the ground for another twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: minutes and then eventually they'll fly up, and then you've
Speaker 1: got about a thirty to thirty five maybe even a forty.
Speaker 2: Five minute window.
Speaker 1: We found over there, Well, those birds will talk a
Speaker 1: lot while they're in their roost, so we will, uh
Speaker 1: if we're driving roads, if there's a county road, if
Speaker 1: we're in on a ridge system, we'll go in there
Speaker 1: and just listen after, you know, after fly up some
Speaker 1: calls you can use during that time. You can use
Speaker 1: your your out hooter, you can use crow calls. One
Speaker 1: of my favorite nighttime locators, which I do not use
Speaker 1: during the daytime because I don't want them to feel
Speaker 1: that there's a coyout on the ground, is just a
Speaker 1: quick coyout. How it's a great nighttime locator. We seem
Speaker 1: to get really good responses out of that. So we'll
Speaker 1: go up get to a good vantage, just like you're
Speaker 1: trying to locate a bugle or anywhere up high where
Speaker 1: you can hear a lot of country and locate a bird.
Speaker 1: Then if we need to, we can drive to a
Speaker 1: lower area, try to get a better pinpoint on them,
Speaker 1: and then make sure we've got a good idea because
Speaker 1: in the morning we're gonna want to start there. That's
Speaker 1: where we're gonna start our hunt. When you do find
Speaker 1: a roost tree, if you've got them pretty you know
Speaker 1: pretty well defined that. The next thing I like to
Speaker 1: do is get on on X or if you know
Speaker 1: the area really well and try to figure out which
Speaker 1: way they're going to pitch out of that tree. If
Speaker 1: you haven't got a chance to see them pitch out
Speaker 1: of that tree, if you haven't had a chance to
Speaker 1: see what they do in that area. A lot of
Speaker 1: times we set up.
Speaker 2: Wrong in the morning. Are we going kind of blind?
Speaker 2: And we just set up close to the.
Speaker 1: Roosting birds and they typically pitch out the opposite direction.
Speaker 1: So put a little thought into where you think that
Speaker 1: bird is going to pitch and why, and then that
Speaker 1: could definitely help. And even more so, you don't have
Speaker 1: to be so close to the bird. You can go
Speaker 1: out one hundred and fifty hundred yards if you think
Speaker 1: that that's where that bird's gonna gonna push out or
Speaker 1: feed or you know where they're gonna strut, definitely go
Speaker 1: that direction rather than, you know, just just below the
Speaker 1: tree somewhere. Now, with that said, I seem to always
Speaker 1: struggle regardless of where I set up on a roofs tree.
Speaker 1: It seems like the bird always wants to do something
Speaker 1: you know that that I don't want them to do,
Speaker 1: or go direction I don't want them to go.
Speaker 2: And I've always struggled, like you do. Some tree helps.
Speaker 1: You always want to get their attention or at least
Speaker 1: let them know you're there, versus being completely quiet, hoping
Speaker 1: that you pick the right direction. And I always kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, go back and forth. And there's been some
Speaker 1: times where it's worked great, and there's been some times
Speaker 1: where it's like I shouldn't have, shouldn't have made a sound.
Speaker 1: So it's really up to you to kind of figure out,
Speaker 1: you know, what what you what you want to do,
Speaker 1: if you want to make a sound, or if you
Speaker 1: want to alert them of your location so at least
Speaker 1: they know there's no real right or wrong answer there.
Speaker 1: But I would say typically lean towards at least making
Speaker 1: some really soft tree helps and then putting the call away.
Speaker 1: So let's get into you know, one thing that a
Speaker 1: lot of people for me spring turkeys about using the
Speaker 1: calls and the vocalizations and getting these things to come
Speaker 1: in on a string if possible. So what vocalizations as
Speaker 1: a turkey hunter do you need to be able to
Speaker 1: make to call a burden? I would say, if you
Speaker 1: can only learn one sound, just your typical seven to
Speaker 1: nine note yelp is going to be, you know, your best,
Speaker 1: your best call that you can go out in the
Speaker 1: woods with now not saying that you're limiting yourself because
Speaker 1: being able to have the ability to cluck per bubble,
Speaker 1: you know, bubble cluck, cut, you know, any of those
Speaker 1: sort of calls can add to the realism, especially if
Speaker 1: they're doing it out in the woods. But going out
Speaker 1: there with a minimum of the ability to yelp will
Speaker 1: be to your advantage. How do you mimic realistic turkey
Speaker 1: calls rather than what you hear everybody do When I'm
Speaker 1: testing turkey calls, or when I'm when I'm you're researching vocalizations,
Speaker 1: or maybe I'm I'm recording audio. A lot of times
Speaker 1: I just go to real turkey sounds. I go out
Speaker 1: to video clips of real turkey sounds. I don't try
Speaker 1: to sound like another caller. I go to try to
Speaker 1: sound like realistic turkeys, real turkeys. YouTube is a great
Speaker 1: spot to go listen to real turkeys do their thing
Speaker 1: and call. You know, we always try to we always
Speaker 1: try to put their calling into a perfect little cookie
Speaker 1: cutter box, you know, a seven to nine note. Yep, Well,
Speaker 1: guess what you can go on YouTube and listen to
Speaker 1: a turkey rattle off fifty or sixty ELPs in a row.
Speaker 1: You can also hear turkeys very subtly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know they'll do like four
Speaker 2: y ELPs.
Speaker 1: You just need to go and decide for yourself what's
Speaker 1: realistic turkey calls.
Speaker 2: And uh, you know what you need to do to
Speaker 2: mimic those.
Speaker 1: Now, with that said, one of the the main questions
Speaker 1: I get manufacturing turkey calls is which ones do I
Speaker 1: need or which ones should I get? I always recommend
Speaker 1: mouth diaphragms for people that are learning or experienced. The
Speaker 1: best thing about mouth diaphragms is the movement is minimal
Speaker 1: and it allows you to have access to your weapon.
Speaker 1: Any other call that I know of, aside from a
Speaker 1: mouth diaphragm, will require you to use your hands in
Speaker 1: some form or fashion number one, making more movement number two,
Speaker 1: not allowing you to have access to your weapon at
Speaker 1: the same time. So mouth calls are always number one,
Speaker 1: but the level of difficulty in learning those is typically
Speaker 1: higher than the other calls. So but I always recommend
Speaker 1: you at least get one and practice and give it
Speaker 1: a shot. From there, I would say box calls and
Speaker 1: pot calls or sometimes equally is easy to learn. I
Speaker 1: would say boxes maybe easier. You know, you got to
Speaker 1: box call typically made out of a wood base with
Speaker 1: a wood paddle, and by running those over and creating
Speaker 1: the friction from the base to the paddle, you get
Speaker 1: you know, a turkey yelp or a turkey sound. You
Speaker 1: can you can cluck on a box call, you can purr,
Speaker 1: you can yelp, you can do a lot of things
Speaker 1: and very easy to use just by swiping the paddle.
Speaker 1: Pot calls are made out of a multitude of materials.
Speaker 1: I would say the most common would be a wood
Speaker 1: pot or a plastic pot with slate, glass, aluminum copper,
Speaker 1: a slate tech type material, a material that's kind of
Speaker 1: an engineered material, and typically you will use a peg
Speaker 1: with that. So you use a striker on top of
Speaker 1: the conditions surface. So by making small semi circles or
Speaker 1: oblong circles, small j's, by dragging your striker down, you
Speaker 1: can get your purrs sharp pushes down the board. You
Speaker 1: can get your clucks or cuts, depending on how loud
Speaker 1: you want those. And those are typically going to be
Speaker 1: also a lot easier to run, a little less movement
Speaker 1: than box calls, but maybe a little more difficulty in
Speaker 1: learning to run those those are those are kind of
Speaker 1: the three calls. Now, there's a lot of other specialty calls.
Speaker 1: We've got tube cutting calls. We've got spring box calls
Speaker 1: where you know there's a there's a spring and you
Speaker 1: can push your push your pullpin calls. But I would
Speaker 1: say the majority of your turkey calls are going to
Speaker 1: be mouth diaphragms, box calls, or pot calls. Now that
Speaker 1: you're out there, can you recommend, you know, calling sequences
Speaker 1: for different phases of the hunt? How does varying your
Speaker 1: cadence affect your responsiveness all of this stuff? So it's
Speaker 1: very tough on a hunt to go out there and
Speaker 1: tell you exactly how you should call. Now, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave you with a few things. Is when you're out
Speaker 1: in the woods, what are the other turkeys doing? Are
Speaker 1: those hands being very very voisious? Are they being to
Speaker 1: the point of overcalling? Are they being aggressive? So you're
Speaker 1: kind of you're kind of reading, kind of reading the room.
Speaker 1: How are the other turkeys responding? How talkative are they?
Speaker 1: But then the other thing you're gonna do is, how
Speaker 1: is that tom that you really want to come into
Speaker 1: your location? How is he responding to your calling? Is
Speaker 1: he fired up when you cluck? Is he fired up
Speaker 1: when you yell?
Speaker 2: Is he fly? You know?
Speaker 1: Is he fired up? On this or that? Last year
Speaker 1: in Washington, I was there with my good buddy John
Speaker 1: and Simon in eastern Washington, and you know, we don't
Speaker 1: typically pull.
Speaker 2: We've always got a box call with us.
Speaker 1: We've always got what you know, all of our calls
Speaker 1: with us, but there's just some that we use more
Speaker 1: than the other. On this particular hunt, we kept coming
Speaker 1: back to my box call, which is the meat eater
Speaker 1: X Phelps box call. There was something about it, whether
Speaker 1: it was the time of the year, whether it was
Speaker 1: you know, quietness, whether you know, whether it was elevation,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. We could get turkeys to respond
Speaker 1: to that box call better than we could our mouth
Speaker 1: diaphragms or our pot calls. So it was one of
Speaker 1: those things where just because what those turkeys in the
Speaker 1: field wanted to hear, what they responded to, we picked
Speaker 1: up on that and we used that box call more
Speaker 1: so than not. Now, it did add some difficulty, like
Speaker 1: I said before, is we're trying to call those birds
Speaker 1: into our location with a box call. It's sometimes very
Speaker 1: very tricky for me. My right arms got to move,
Speaker 1: you know, to the extent of you know, five or
Speaker 1: six inches on the end of the paddle. So a
Speaker 1: lot of times when we were setting up, if I
Speaker 1: wasn't the shooter, I would set up, maybe more so
Speaker 1: out of out of the visible, you know, area of
Speaker 1: that turkey. I would kind of go hide myself, which
Speaker 1: wouldn't be ideal if I was calling for myself, but
Speaker 1: calling for my buddies, I was able to make work.
Speaker 1: One time I was the caller and the shooter. We
Speaker 1: were being very strategic on listening where the bird's gobble was,
Speaker 1: how close we thought they were, can we hear them
Speaker 1: spitting and drumming, And then at some point I was
Speaker 1: gonna have to put the box call down and just
Speaker 1: hold onto my gun and hope that that was enough
Speaker 1: to finish him. So using kind of all of those
Speaker 1: cues throughout a hunt to decide whether or not, you know,
Speaker 1: you need to keep using that call or you may
Speaker 1: run into a turkey that doesn't care if you're yelping
Speaker 1: the mouth diaphragm, a pot call, or a box call,
Speaker 1: or any combination thereof. So you're really one. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I don't think you can go wrong if you if
Speaker 1: you listen to all the other turkeys in the area,
Speaker 1: how how loud are they being. You know, if you've
Speaker 1: got boss hands that are just real squawky, you may
Speaker 1: need to get squawky because you're trying to call him
Speaker 1: away from her. Or number two, if that bird just
Speaker 1: soaking up everything you throw at it, continue to go
Speaker 1: down that path.
Speaker 2: You know, during during your call ins, different terrains is one.
Speaker 1: One of the other things is how do you you
Speaker 1: know is there a difference when you're hunting him in
Speaker 1: the mountains of Washington versus the open fields or the
Speaker 1: open meadow you know country at Kansas And I would
Speaker 1: say yes, but it's more so on the subspecies.
Speaker 2: I would say it was a question about terrain.
Speaker 1: But the stubborn Easterns of the Midwest are a completely
Speaker 1: different animal than than our Miriams out out in the west.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got big, thunderous gobbles or a bigger bird,
Speaker 1: but an Eastern is very very stubborn and sometimes very
Speaker 1: very hard to get them to give up your location.
Speaker 1: It's when they do give up their location they sometimes
Speaker 1: seem to care a little bit less about your calls.
Speaker 1: And I know this all depends on the time of
Speaker 1: the year, but Easterns more difficult. You go out west
Speaker 1: and we're hunting our rios and our Miriams a lot
Speaker 1: more talkative, a lot easier to get to say something.
Speaker 1: Early in the morning or middle of the day. When
Speaker 1: I'm hunting Merriams or rios, I feel like I've got
Speaker 1: a good chance all day long. Where when I'm hunting
Speaker 1: Easterns in Kansas or wherever it may be, I feel
Speaker 1: like at times I just need to set up on
Speaker 1: a travel corridor, maybe do some you know, a little
Speaker 1: real subtle calling every hour or so, and just hope
Speaker 1: that they want to walk by me. So that's one
Speaker 1: of the big differences now terrain. I've always felt turkeys
Speaker 1: would rather come uphill do a call because if they
Speaker 1: run into danger, they can pitch away from the danger.
Speaker 1: So that's one thing I always try to keep in mind,
Speaker 1: either on contour or calling them uphill. Imagine if you're
Speaker 1: trying to call a bird downhill and they they run
Speaker 1: into danger, they can still just run up the hill,
Speaker 1: but it puts them at a disadvantage versus just being
Speaker 1: able to pitch off the hill. They don't want to
Speaker 1: pitch out over the danger of what may be there.
Speaker 1: So that's that's really when it comes to terrains kind
Speaker 1: of what I'm thinking of as I as I go
Speaker 1: into that, you know, setup can that turkey get away
Speaker 1: from danger? Are they going to be comfortable? And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, look at it from from that that standpoint.
Speaker 1: Aside from that, like and that's kind of that's kind
Speaker 1: of my advice for a turkey hunter. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people think you need to have all the
Speaker 1: specialty gear, I would say, a weapon, some understanding of
Speaker 1: being able to make some turkey calls, and then it's
Speaker 1: really just spending time out in the woods and understanding,
Speaker 1: you know, understanding the birds. You know, as I've said before,
Speaker 1: I've got lots of podcasts that goes very very deep
Speaker 1: with doctor Chamberlain and some of these research biologists that
Speaker 1: talk about like we get into you know, nesting cycles
Speaker 1: and why you know, turkey hunting maybe better later in
Speaker 1: the season and early you know, we we talk about
Speaker 1: hunting pressure, we talk about all those things, but it's
Speaker 1: very basic, you know, the foundation of turkey hunting. I
Speaker 1: wanted to do this podcast to really just kind of
Speaker 1: say what you need, what you don't need necessarily, but
Speaker 1: what what are kind of some of these luxuries? And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, turkey hunting is just a blast. You know,
Speaker 1: some people out west, you know, love to hate on
Speaker 1: turkey hunting.
Speaker 2: You know it's we should be spring bear hunting or
Speaker 2: doing something. Man.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love it when I can get an animal
Speaker 1: to interact with me, regardless of what they say. It's
Speaker 1: very very simi to elk hunting, I get something to
Speaker 1: respond with a locator call. Something I didn't talk about,
Speaker 1: But you can use all of these locator calls. You
Speaker 1: locate them, you take a guess at where you think
Speaker 1: they are, you move in as close as you can
Speaker 1: without busting them, and you sit down and try to
Speaker 1: call them in. Very very similar to elk hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm calling in a twenty pound turkey instead of an
Speaker 1: eight hundred pound screaming elk, But the game itself is
Speaker 1: similar and I love everything about it. And if you
Speaker 1: have any other questions for me or my guests on
Speaker 1: the upcoming turkey episodes that we're just starting to get into,
Speaker 1: please email them to us at CTD at Phelpsgame Calls
Speaker 1: dot com, or you can send us a message on
Speaker 1: any of our social media platforms and we'll do our
Speaker 1: best to get them plugged in here. But with that said,
Speaker 1: turkey hunting isn't some big, giant, complicated thing where you
Speaker 1: need all this fancy gear, weapon tag. Do a little
Speaker 1: bit of scouting, learn how to call, and go hunt
Speaker 1: and have a blast to spring.
Speaker 2: Thank you everybody, and