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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: nor with you along with Kevin Randall. Kevin, So, the

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Speaker 1: Project blue Book stopped operating fifty years ago, why now

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Speaker 1: write the best of the Project blue Book. One of

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Speaker 1: the problems was that the files were classified or restricted

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Speaker 1: so that we as surveillance couldn't get into them. They

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Speaker 1: were declassified and sent to the National Archives in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy six. But it's just recently that I think we've

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Speaker 1: realized that it's the real gold mine out there, that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of good information in there if you

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Speaker 1: can wade through all the nonsense at the Air Force throughout,

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Speaker 1: and some of the experts sue out about citing conclusions,

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Speaker 1: and that was the whole point. Let's look at these

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Speaker 1: cases and see what we can we've learn about them.

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Speaker 1: Levoland springs to mind. This was the case in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty seven where the object was seen close to the

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Speaker 1: ground stalled car engine. That's sort of thing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we got a craft interacting with the environment for crying

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Speaker 1: out loud. It's multiple witness there's witnesses at least thirteen

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Speaker 1: locations that talked about that, and so we can go

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Speaker 1: back into that case now and we can look at

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Speaker 1: what the Air Force said. What Nightcap, which was the

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Speaker 1: one of the Savellan organizations investigating it, said, see who

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Speaker 1: was right, who was wrong, and bring additional information into

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Speaker 1: A guy named Don Berlinson, who lives coincidentally in Roswell

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Speaker 1: and leveland is like three hours away by car from

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Speaker 1: from Roswell, did an investigation in two thousand and two

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Speaker 1: thousand and one and he was able to talk to

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Speaker 1: the daughter of the sheriff. Now, the sheriff said had

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Speaker 1: said publicly, repeatedly, well I saw a streak of light

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Speaker 1: in the distance. Nothing happened. I didn't get a good

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Speaker 1: look at it. You go back and you talk to

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Speaker 1: the family and they say, well, the sheriff was told

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Speaker 1: by the Air Force not to talk about it. So

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Speaker 1: we learned a little bit more about what they said,

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Speaker 1: and that he got much closer to it and he

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Speaker 1: saw oval shape or an egg shaped object. Was the

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Speaker 1: content committee from the University of Colorado, I believe was

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Speaker 1: that a smoke screen. Oh, absolutely, they were. They were designed.

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Speaker 1: It was designed to specifically end the Air Force public

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Speaker 1: investigation of UFOs, and that's exactly what they did. That

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Speaker 1: was what their job was, and they did it, and

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Speaker 1: they did it, and they did it well in terms

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Speaker 1: of ending it well, the public investigation, as we've now learned.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we of course Project Moodust tells us that

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Speaker 1: it that it didn't end. Then, when the name Moondust

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Speaker 1: was compromised in nineteen eighty six, Robert Todd wrote to

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Speaker 1: them and asked for what the new name was, and

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Speaker 1: they said, we can't tell you. It's properly classified. So

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Speaker 1: it continued on beyond New Moondust, and we heard inklings

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Speaker 1: of the project, and then we of course learned what

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Speaker 1: happened with the A tip program and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So we realized there's been an ongoing government investigation of

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Speaker 1: UFOs almost from from the nineteen forty six actually, instead

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Speaker 1: of Kenneth Arnold sighting in nineteen forty seven, how many

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Speaker 1: cases did they say they were unidentified in the Project Bluebook?

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Speaker 1: Probably Bluebook said they investigated some twelve thousand cases and

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Speaker 1: about seven hundred and one of them were unidentified. The

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Speaker 1: problem is all you need is one well, but the

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Speaker 1: real problem is when you look at the project Blue Profiles,

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Speaker 1: there's like four or five thousand cases that are labeled

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Speaker 1: insufficient data for scientific analysis, which means they're not identified.

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Speaker 1: They've just slapped a label on it so it doesn't

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Speaker 1: fall into the unidentified category. I talk about one of

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Speaker 1: the cases in the book where a guy had seen

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Speaker 1: the object late at night. He flashed his light at

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Speaker 1: it with pie three point one four because the only

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Speaker 1: thing he could look think about it, and got some

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Speaker 1: kind of response, and he reported the air Force, and

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Speaker 1: air Force labeled in insufficient data, and he wrote, what

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Speaker 1: more data did you meet? Do you need? I told

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Speaker 1: you everything I know. I gave you the directions, I

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Speaker 1: gave you the times, I gave you the altitudes. I

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Speaker 1: gave you all of this stuff. What more do you need?

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Speaker 1: They finally labeled as unidentified, which shows you if you,

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Speaker 1: I guess, made enough noise, the Air Force would reverse themselves.

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Speaker 1: But they they didn't bother with it. They didn't care.

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Speaker 1: They just labeled it insufficient data. There was another cases

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Speaker 1: in Florida, and I talk a little bit about this

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Speaker 1: as well, where an Air Force major is required to

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Speaker 1: investigate the case, and you can read from his report

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Speaker 1: that he has just really annoyed at having this extra duty.

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Speaker 1: He thinks it's absolutely ridiculous. He's making fun of the

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Speaker 1: people who had seen the object, including Air Force personnel,

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Speaker 1: being young, uneducated, stupid people seeing UFOs, and that comes

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Speaker 1: across in the report, so you get an idea of

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Speaker 1: the attitude to some of the people the Air Force

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Speaker 1: was using to investigate the sightings. June twenty fourth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty seven, an American aviator and businessman is flying a

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Speaker 1: small plane near Mount Renier in Washington and he reportedly

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Speaker 1: sees nine unusual objects and that began the Kenneth Arnold sightings.

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Speaker 1: What do you think he saw, Kevin Well. The interesting

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Speaker 1: thing about that is, I think at one point they

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Speaker 1: were talking about it being the x B thirty five,

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Speaker 1: which is the flying wing. But in that time frame

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Speaker 1: all the flying wings that they had were grounded because

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Speaker 1: we were public with the gearboxes. They were inherently unstable.

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Speaker 1: The B two bombers an upgraded version of the flying wing,

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Speaker 1: but they had fly by wire computer jet computers keep

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Speaker 1: the stability of the aircraft. In the nineteen fifties they

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Speaker 1: didn't have that. They crashed, But he didn't see that.

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Speaker 1: He didn't see pelicans. He didn't see wisps of snow

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Speaker 1: blowing off the peaks. He saw something very unusual. This

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Speaker 1: is where we always say with the modern RROR began,

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Speaker 1: but it actually began earlier than that. And there's evidence

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Speaker 1: that there was an unofficial investigation at right Field in

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Speaker 1: starting in December of nineteen forty six about UFOs. Once

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Speaker 1: we get to June of nineteen forty seven and Arnolds sighting,

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Speaker 1: then it flips over into a more more official investigation,

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Speaker 1: and ironically, a few weeks later Roswell, New Mexico, that

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Speaker 1: big event happens. They had to be tied together somehow.

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Speaker 1: I think that what happened is when Arnold made his

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Speaker 1: sighting and it made the big splash, the government didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to respond to it. They didn't know what

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Speaker 1: it was. I think Rupelt, who was one time the

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Speaker 1: chief of Project Blueco, was saying the Pentagon was in

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Speaker 1: a panic. They didn't know what was going on. Suddenly,

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Speaker 1: two weeks after Arnold, you've got something that fell at Roswell,

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Speaker 1: and the whole attitude changes, and the next day it's reported,

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Speaker 1: I think in July nineteen forty seven in the newspapers

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Speaker 1: that the Roswarmy Airfield had captured a flying saucer. The

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Speaker 1: next day you read the explanations, Well, I was just

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Speaker 1: a weather blow. But the important story was the Army

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Speaker 1: and Navy moved at that point to suppress the stories

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Speaker 1: of flying saucers whizzing through the atmosphere. So what changed

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Speaker 1: between July eighth and July ninth. It required the military

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Speaker 1: in the government to start attempting to suppress the stories

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Speaker 1: of flying saucers. And they picked one up at Roswell

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Speaker 1: and they realized what was going on and it they

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Speaker 1: realized that they had to determine exact at what was

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Speaker 1: going on, and they didn't need a lot of outside

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Speaker 1: influences influencing their investigations, which is why they started to

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Speaker 1: suppress the stories. Get the public uninterested in the flying

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Speaker 1: saucers and they could move into a secret arena and

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Speaker 1: determine exactly what was going on. Well with Kevin Randall,

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Speaker 1: his latest book is called the Best of Project Bluebook.

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Speaker 1: What about Colonel Howard McCoy, What was his role in

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Speaker 1: all of this? Howard McCoy is an interesting guy. He

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Speaker 1: starts out in during the flu Fu Fighters in World

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Speaker 1: War Two, The lights and things that the pilots and

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Speaker 1: the airmen were reporting. They saw these little disc type

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Speaker 1: objects flying all over the place, didn't They just shaped

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Speaker 1: objects balls of light. They would fire at him, the

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Speaker 1: bullets would disappear into the balls of light and nothing

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Speaker 1: would come out. They followed the formations, the idea that

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Speaker 1: the fear was it was some kind of an access

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Speaker 1: secret weapons. So they were very concerned about it. McCoy

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Speaker 1: was involved in the investigation of that, and when the

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Speaker 1: war ended, the immediacy of trying to learn what it was,

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Speaker 1: and it as well, nobody cared anymore what it was

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Speaker 1: because the war is over. They don't they're not a

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Speaker 1: threat anymore. Then McCoy shows up in the Ghost Rockets

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Speaker 1: here in nineteen forty six, you know, a year later

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Speaker 1: he's investigating the ghost Rockets. He's involved in that. When

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Speaker 1: we get to late in nineteen forty six, he is

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Speaker 1: called by Nathan Twining, who was the Air Material commander

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Speaker 1: at the time, and set up an unofficial investigation into

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Speaker 1: these lights. These objects would have been seen because it's

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Speaker 1: being seen around the world still going on, and then

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Speaker 1: of course when the Arnold Arnold Sighting took place, McCoy

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Speaker 1: has brought in officially to investigate that. And the letter

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Speaker 1: that Twining writes in September of nineteen forty seven, which

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Speaker 1: is the phenomena is something real and no illusionary in fictitious.

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Speaker 1: That letter was probably authored by Howard McCoy, So he

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Speaker 1: he is involved in all this phenomenon up to forty

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Speaker 1: seven and then beyond that, so he kind of controls

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Speaker 1: the flow of information and what they were investigations are going.

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Speaker 1: Did the late Philip Corso's name pop up in any

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Speaker 1: of this, No, not at all, Not at all. No,

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Speaker 1: this is prior to Corso, and if he was involved

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Speaker 1: in anything at all, that wouldn't have been in the

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Speaker 1: purview of Project Bluebook. There was nothing about Corso and

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Speaker 1: his activities in Project Bluebook. In the administrative files or

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Speaker 1: the OSI files that are attached to the Project Bluebook

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Speaker 1: files that you can you can look at, were the

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Speaker 1: actual Bluebook files now, Kevin, they're the National Archives. When

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Speaker 1: they were to declassified in nineteen seventy six, they went

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Speaker 1: first to the Air Force Archives at Natural Air Force Base.

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Speaker 1: And we need to we need to take a bow

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Speaker 1: debt of gratitude Jack Webb, because he's the one that

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Speaker 1: got them all microfilms. He was wanted to do a

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Speaker 1: series called Project UFO back in the nineteen seventies, really,

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Speaker 1: and so he paid to have them all microfilms so

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Speaker 1: he could have a copy of the file. So we

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Speaker 1: got we gotta reach out to Jack Webb and say

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Speaker 1: thank you Jack on that one. But they went to U.

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Speaker 1: They went to Actual Air Force Space. A friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: Robert Cornette, and I were able to access the files

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Speaker 1: there because we learned they were there. I was writing

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Speaker 1: UFO articles and I'd call the editor and I'll call

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Speaker 1: you back later. You know, it was hard to getting

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Speaker 1: through them. And I called him one day and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I get the Project Bluebook files. And my

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Speaker 1: editor didn't call his boss called immediately and started telling

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Speaker 1: me what I should look for in the files. I

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Speaker 1: didn't tell him that anybody who knew they were Maxtual

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Speaker 1: Air Force case but probably go look at them. We

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Speaker 1: were able to do that. The first thing we did

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Speaker 1: when we got there. We got a hold of the

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Speaker 1: indexes and had had all the names of the people

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Speaker 1: in it, and we went through all the identified and

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Speaker 1: wrote down all the names of people so he could

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Speaker 1: put the names back in the files. When they were

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Speaker 1: released publicly to the National Archives where they are now,

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Speaker 1: the Air Force went through and redacted all the names.

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Speaker 1: Were the files blacked out, like we see so many

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Speaker 1: documents these days. Just mostly the names were taken out.

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Speaker 1: The witnesses names were taken out. And the one that

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Speaker 1: really cracked me up is the Arnold's siding. And there's

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Speaker 1: a telephone interview with Arnold in an Air Force officer,

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Speaker 1: and they've even blacked out his initials KA, but in

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Speaker 1: grease pencil on the first page, in letters that are

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Speaker 1: about a half in giant it's this Arnold sighting. So

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. Well, they didn't do a very good job

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Speaker 1: of blacking out the names. I've rarely found a file

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Speaker 1: where if I went through it carefully, I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: a name. When I hear Lubbock, Texas, I think of

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Speaker 1: the home of the late Buddy Holly. But there was

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Speaker 1: a ufocas in Lubbock called the Lubbock Lights. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about that. This was a series of sightings that started

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Speaker 1: with a group of college professor sitting around it was

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Speaker 1: Texas University, it's Texas Tech now and saw these lights

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Speaker 1: fly over and they didn't get a good look at them,

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Speaker 1: and they said, well, maybe they'll come back, and they

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Speaker 1: set up all these kind of observations of these lights

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Speaker 1: flying over. Guy named Carl Hart Junior took photographs of

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Speaker 1: them a couple of days later, and the photographs has

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Speaker 1: never really been explained. He took five photographs of a

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Speaker 1: a V shaped formation. It seems that independent lights in

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Speaker 1: it because they moved in relation to one another. I

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Speaker 1: was in Lubbock, my way to Roswell. I was actually

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Speaker 1: love doing part of the rosal investigation, and a lark

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Speaker 1: I looked his name up in the phone book and

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Speaker 1: he was there, so I called him and chatted with

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Speaker 1: him about that, and I said, what did you What

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Speaker 1: did you see? Knowing that teenagers who took photographs of

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Speaker 1: UFOs usually came out years later and admitted, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: faked the thing, and there's many many famous photographs where

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Speaker 1: that's happened. I said, what did you talk? What did

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Speaker 1: your photograph? Figuring Well, you know he's sixty years old.

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Speaker 1: Now he'll tell me what he saw, and he says,

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Speaker 1: I still don't want to photographed. So it's kind of unusual.

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Speaker 1: The Air Force explanation it was birds flying in formation

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Speaker 1: I talked to the Margaret, the DNR of the Department

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Speaker 1: of Natural Resources at Lubbeck and all of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: They said, the only birds in the area that flew

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Speaker 1: in formations like that was duck, and it had a

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Speaker 1: dark bill, so it would be reflecting the city lights.

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Speaker 1: As the Air Force proposed. They said, well it was pluver.

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Speaker 1: Pluver don't fly in v formations. And we've got those

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Speaker 1: photographs that Heart took, and you've got the photographs that

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Speaker 1: are unexplained. Professional photographer from the newspaper I think the

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Speaker 1: guy's name was Ham, was on the top of the

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Speaker 1: building of the Avalanche Journal trying to photograph the lights

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Speaker 1: as they went over. He was unable to do it.

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Speaker 1: He could never get a good photograph of the birds

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Speaker 1: and all of that sort of thing. So it sort

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Speaker 1: of shows that Heart photographs were very, very important, and

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things in the Project Bluebook I

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Speaker 1: was able to do. I was able to talk to

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Speaker 1: Carl Hart Junior about what he saw. I talked to

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Speaker 1: al Chop who was in the radar room during the

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Speaker 1: Washington National sidings, all the signings over Washington, DC in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two that got the My favorite headline in

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Speaker 1: the newspaper Cedar Rapper's Gazette banner headline in July of

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two says, Saucer swarm over Capitol. It's like

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Speaker 1: a headline out of a science fiction movie. And I

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Speaker 1: was talking to al Chop. I talked to Dewey, four

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Speaker 1: and A both of them in the radar room on

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Speaker 1: the second night when they were obviously we're there, and

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Speaker 1: I got their opinions of what they saw, so I

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Speaker 1: could bring back to bear in the book that really

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Speaker 1: hadn't been done before where people had talked to these

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Speaker 1: kinds of people. So I was able to talk to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who are involved in the sightings

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Speaker 1: in today's environment what they saw, what they did, and

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Speaker 1: how they reacted to it as opposed to what the

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Speaker 1: Air Force said during their investigations. Listen to more Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more