WEBVTT - Where Things Stand in the Dia Abrams Case 0:00:15.422 --> 0:00:15.902 Pushkin. 0:00:30.302 --> 0:00:33.822 Hey guys, it's Lucy here with a bonus episode of 0:00:33.942 --> 0:00:38.182 Where's Dear. Today, I'm going to share an update on 0:00:38.302 --> 0:00:39.222 where things stand. 0:00:39.382 --> 0:00:40.502 More than a whole. 0:00:40.342 --> 0:00:44.302 Year after we release the series, A pretty significant date 0:00:44.342 --> 0:00:48.182 in the Dea Abrams investigation has now passed, and I've 0:00:48.222 --> 0:00:50.702 been in touch with my sources about their reactions to 0:00:50.742 --> 0:00:55.022 that and the podcast. I'm also answering questions from listeners 0:00:55.062 --> 0:00:57.062 and getting into some of the details that we couldn't 0:00:57.102 --> 0:00:59.982 quite fit into the series. And here to help me 0:01:00.022 --> 0:01:02.782 out is my amazing producer, Daphne Chen. 0:01:03.742 --> 0:01:05.942 Hey, Licy, how's it going good? 0:01:06.102 --> 0:01:06.502 Thank you? 0:01:06.582 --> 0:01:11.542 It's been a while. It has been so what have 0:01:11.582 --> 0:01:15.702 you got to ask me? Lots of questions, lots of updates, 0:01:15.942 --> 0:01:18.862 and I definitely want to talk to you about the 0:01:18.902 --> 0:01:24.662 important deadline, But let's start with the general reactions from 0:01:24.662 --> 0:01:28.342 the people you interviewed after the series came out. Do 0:01:28.342 --> 0:01:30.502 you hear back from them about anything? 0:01:31.342 --> 0:01:34.982 I did have one message from Clinton saying how disappointed 0:01:34.982 --> 0:01:42.182 he was in the reporting. That was after the first 0:01:42.222 --> 0:01:44.862 episode came out. I encouraged him to listen to the 0:01:45.022 --> 0:01:48.062 entire podcast, but I didn't hear any more thoughts from him. 0:01:48.062 --> 0:01:53.622 On that, I had a few messages from Peggy saying 0:01:53.622 --> 0:01:56.862 how grateful she was that we had covered her sister's disappearance, 0:01:58.022 --> 0:02:03.102 and so that was quite nice. And then I did 0:02:03.182 --> 0:02:06.702 have a couple of people get in touch with me 0:02:07.182 --> 0:02:12.382 asking me to investigate certain angles. One was a lawyer 0:02:12.462 --> 0:02:16.422 that Dia had actually approached before she went missing. She 0:02:17.022 --> 0:02:21.782 didn't ever officially retain this lawyer because she disappeared, and 0:02:21.822 --> 0:02:26.182 the lawyer wouldn't speak to me because of client attorney privilege, 0:02:26.942 --> 0:02:29.622 so I couldn't get a lot of information. 0:02:29.182 --> 0:02:29.662 Out of her. 0:02:29.982 --> 0:02:34.182 But she did tell me that I and the police 0:02:34.222 --> 0:02:39.062 should be closely looking at the case that Dea had 0:02:39.942 --> 0:02:43.622 in the courts with her two kids over her late 0:02:43.702 --> 0:02:48.142 husband's estate. I had done quite a lot of research 0:02:48.182 --> 0:02:52.062 into that, but I never really came up with anything 0:02:52.062 --> 0:02:52.862 that I thought was. 0:02:52.822 --> 0:02:56.702 Substantial, and she kind of loved it at that. She 0:02:57.022 --> 0:02:59.262 didn't want to do an on record interview now at 0:02:59.302 --> 0:02:59.902 the time. 0:03:00.262 --> 0:03:04.702 No, unfortunately not. But again, it's it was the same 0:03:04.782 --> 0:03:06.902 kind of thing that I found throughout the series, which 0:03:06.942 --> 0:03:11.782 is people had all these experience, says of interacting with Harper, 0:03:12.262 --> 0:03:14.982 but none of it was ever a smoking gun. There 0:03:15.022 --> 0:03:18.262 was never any hard evidence, and that's why there's never 0:03:18.302 --> 0:03:20.342 been any charges brought against anybody. 0:03:20.862 --> 0:03:23.382 Mm hmmm, Yeah. I feel like we talked about that 0:03:23.422 --> 0:03:28.542 a lot. Was just the difference between you know, characterizing somebody, 0:03:28.622 --> 0:03:32.902 which we did a little bit in the series, that's 0:03:33.382 --> 0:03:37.022 different from evidence for a case or like anything like 0:03:37.062 --> 0:03:40.782 that that might be helpful in you know, a police investigation. 0:03:42.382 --> 0:03:45.742 So hopefully we told that line, but it is really 0:03:45.822 --> 0:03:48.702 hard to differentiate between the two of them sometimes. 0:03:48.982 --> 0:03:49.342 Yeah. 0:03:49.542 --> 0:03:52.342 So, and there was one other person I think you 0:03:52.462 --> 0:03:56.182 heard from after the series aired, and it was a 0:03:56.222 --> 0:04:01.062 woman who came across something from DIA's estate. Can you 0:04:01.102 --> 0:04:01.702 talk about that? 0:04:02.622 --> 0:04:08.542 Yeah? So, I received an email from a woman who 0:04:08.542 --> 0:04:12.062 said that she had in her possession a pair of 0:04:12.382 --> 0:04:18.862 DEA's cowboy boots. And this was particularly interesting because there 0:04:18.982 --> 0:04:22.502 was a little thread that we decided not to include 0:04:22.822 --> 0:04:26.382 in the podcast just because we already had so much information. 0:04:27.222 --> 0:04:30.742 And it was again another court case that Harper had 0:04:31.622 --> 0:04:35.422 filed trying to get reimbursed for a pair of cowboy 0:04:35.462 --> 0:04:40.302 boots that Dea had bought and never picked up. And 0:04:41.342 --> 0:04:46.342 this was I believe this was actually how I found 0:04:47.302 --> 0:04:53.782 Harper's details because when he logged this complaint in the courts. 0:04:54.302 --> 0:04:56.782 All of a sudden, it kind of flagged him as 0:04:56.822 --> 0:04:59.822 a person, and then you're able to trace somebody because 0:04:59.822 --> 0:05:03.702 it's public record. And so the fact that, by the way, 0:05:03.702 --> 0:05:05.982 that court case never went anywhere, it was thrown out 0:05:06.022 --> 0:05:09.102 of court, and it was just such a strange little twist, 0:05:10.142 --> 0:05:12.862 and the fact that this woman was emailing me saying, oh, 0:05:12.862 --> 0:05:16.942 I have a pair of DEA's cowboy boots. I was, Yeah, 0:05:16.942 --> 0:05:22.782 that was quite curveble, and I did look into it. 0:05:22.782 --> 0:05:26.822 It turned out that it wasn't anything significant, and she 0:05:27.102 --> 0:05:32.302 had come across them completely legally. And unfortunately that was 0:05:32.342 --> 0:05:36.302 another rabbit hole that didn't go anywhere, which is kind 0:05:36.422 --> 0:05:40.222 of how I felt a lot of the reporting when 0:05:40.342 --> 0:05:42.382 on the series. I would go down all these different 0:05:42.422 --> 0:05:44.342 rabbit holes and they just wouldn't go anywhere. 0:05:44.502 --> 0:05:47.302 But once once in a while something did. Yeah, you 0:05:47.422 --> 0:05:47.822 never know. 0:05:48.382 --> 0:05:50.702 Yeah, that's kind of why I felt like I had 0:05:50.742 --> 0:05:51.902 to just follow all of them. 0:05:52.182 --> 0:05:56.422 Right. So we ended the series on a major deadline 0:05:56.462 --> 0:06:00.302 that everyone was waiting for. This date of June twenty 0:06:00.382 --> 0:06:03.662 twenty five, can you just give us a quick recap 0:06:03.782 --> 0:06:06.062 of you know what this statement? 0:06:07.582 --> 0:06:12.902 So Dea Abram disappeared on June's sixth, twenty twenty and 0:06:13.502 --> 0:06:16.102 in the state of California, if you've been missing for 0:06:16.222 --> 0:06:19.342 five years, you are considered legally dead. 0:06:20.142 --> 0:06:24.102 Right, So we were waiting for June sixth of twenty 0:06:24.182 --> 0:06:28.262 twenty five, which has come in passed and what happened. 0:06:29.382 --> 0:06:32.302 So Dia has never been found, her body has never 0:06:32.342 --> 0:06:37.542 been found, and as a result, she is now considered 0:06:37.662 --> 0:06:41.582 legally dead according to the state of California, and her 0:06:41.622 --> 0:06:45.062 assets are going to be divided up in three ways. 0:06:45.302 --> 0:06:49.262 Half is going to go to Keith Harper, who says 0:06:49.342 --> 0:06:51.742 that he was engaged to Dia Abrams, although this was 0:06:51.782 --> 0:06:55.142 always contested by both of her children and her friends. 0:06:55.822 --> 0:06:57.782 And the other half is going to be split equally 0:06:57.822 --> 0:07:01.422 between her son Clinton and her daughter Chrissara. Two of 0:07:01.422 --> 0:07:05.102 her properties have already been sold. Benita Vista, where she 0:07:05.302 --> 0:07:08.342 primarily lived and was last seen, is on the market 0:07:08.382 --> 0:07:12.342 for around three million dollars, and the total value of 0:07:12.382 --> 0:07:15.742 her estate is over five million dollars. So there's quite 0:07:15.782 --> 0:07:19.182 a bit of money involved, and I'm sure that the 0:07:19.222 --> 0:07:22.422 parties are pretty interested to get this all wrapped up. 0:07:22.702 --> 0:07:29.022 Yeah, So they're basically in the middle of evaluating her estate. 0:07:29.302 --> 0:07:33.782 But even before this deadline passed, Harper was kind of 0:07:33.862 --> 0:07:36.582 looking to try and get some money. Can you talk 0:07:36.622 --> 0:07:38.582 about that and what was happening there. 0:07:39.022 --> 0:07:43.262 Yeah, so he has had a pattern of filing quite 0:07:43.302 --> 0:07:49.342 a lot of petitions throughout DIA's disappearance, and in April 0:07:49.382 --> 0:07:53.102 twenty twenty four, he filed another petition looking to be 0:07:53.222 --> 0:07:56.422 reimburseed for half a million dollars for the work he 0:07:56.502 --> 0:07:59.422 says he did on the ranch. He claimed he worked 0:07:59.462 --> 0:08:02.182 ten hours a day, seven days a week to just 0:08:02.262 --> 0:08:05.822 make sure that it didn't fall into disrepair. But I 0:08:05.902 --> 0:08:08.582 can't imagine that the judge is going to grant that 0:08:08.622 --> 0:08:12.742 petition considering that in the past, all of these similar 0:08:12.862 --> 0:08:16.622 kind of actions that he's brought into court have been dismissed. 0:08:18.342 --> 0:08:21.782 So since this deadline has passed, you've also reached out 0:08:21.862 --> 0:08:24.222 to many of those involved who you were in touch 0:08:24.262 --> 0:08:27.582 with for the series. What are some of the reactions 0:08:27.662 --> 0:08:28.182 from them. 0:08:28.542 --> 0:08:31.262 Yeah. So, I did reach out to most of the 0:08:31.262 --> 0:08:34.102 people that I spoke to for the podcast to see 0:08:34.102 --> 0:08:38.382 if they wanted to share any thoughts, any feelings, and 0:08:38.822 --> 0:08:42.822 a few people got back to me. I was texting 0:08:42.862 --> 0:08:47.262 with Clinton the three hundred thousand dollar reward that he 0:08:48.382 --> 0:08:51.822 organized is still active and they are looking for information 0:08:52.102 --> 0:08:56.582 about her disappearance. He unfortunately didn't get back to me 0:08:56.622 --> 0:09:00.422 in time with an on the record quote. He did 0:09:00.462 --> 0:09:04.262 forward me an email saying that he has been harassed 0:09:04.302 --> 0:09:08.542 incessantly since his mother went missing, and since his last 0:09:08.582 --> 0:09:13.102 media into view it has increased one hundredfold, and he's 0:09:13.182 --> 0:09:18.862 convinced that he is being stalked and he's going to 0:09:19.142 --> 0:09:24.462 end up being charged with something. And again this is 0:09:25.222 --> 0:09:27.542 I received a lot of emails like this from him. 0:09:27.982 --> 0:09:30.582 In fact, I received almost one hundred emails in the 0:09:30.622 --> 0:09:34.182 duration of my reporting that he had sent to police 0:09:34.222 --> 0:09:38.902 and other people. He was just completely convinced that there 0:09:38.982 --> 0:09:42.022 was some kind of group that was after him, and 0:09:42.062 --> 0:09:46.982 he still, unfortunately seems to believe that. He did tell 0:09:47.662 --> 0:09:53.382 David Godfredson, the reporter from CBS, that he thinks Keith 0:09:53.422 --> 0:09:56.782 Harper got away with murder, and that not only did 0:09:56.822 --> 0:10:01.262 he get away with murder, but he's profiting tremendously. I 0:10:01.302 --> 0:10:05.822 also spoke with Kelly Snyder, who, if you remember, is 0:10:05.982 --> 0:10:10.742 the former DEA agent who runs a miss persons organization 0:10:11.622 --> 0:10:16.262 and had conducted two searches with Keith Harper looking for Dea, 0:10:17.302 --> 0:10:19.742 and he sent me quite a long quote that I'm 0:10:19.822 --> 0:10:25.422 going to paraphrase. He still believes he knows where Dea 0:10:25.502 --> 0:10:28.462 is buried, and he believes that his search dogs alerted 0:10:28.502 --> 0:10:32.142 to this area, which is up in the Idle World area, 0:10:32.462 --> 0:10:35.862 near where Dea owned her Beneatha Vista ranch and where 0:10:35.902 --> 0:10:42.542 she lived. And he expressed his frustration that the police 0:10:42.582 --> 0:10:47.342 hadn't searched this area properly, and he called it laziness 0:10:47.422 --> 0:10:53.542 and incompetence, and so he said he's not going to 0:10:53.582 --> 0:10:57.462 be searching again unless he gets written permission from the police, 0:10:57.702 --> 0:11:02.022 which is very unlikely to happen. So unfortunately that was 0:11:02.222 --> 0:11:06.742 a bit of a dead end with him. 0:11:06.862 --> 0:11:09.742 He never really means his words. I think around how 0:11:09.742 --> 0:11:11.262 he feels about the police and life. 0:11:11.262 --> 0:11:11.782 Now he doesn't. 0:11:12.542 --> 0:11:14.942 And we'll talk a little bit more about, you know, 0:11:14.982 --> 0:11:19.582 the Riverside Sheriff's apartment later. But you also heard from 0:11:19.702 --> 0:11:21.382 Peggy DIA's sister. 0:11:21.982 --> 0:11:24.102 I did, and it was really lovely being back in 0:11:24.142 --> 0:11:28.902 touch with her, because she really, out of everyone, seemed 0:11:28.902 --> 0:11:31.262 to be the one that hadn't well. She was the 0:11:31.262 --> 0:11:35.142 one who had nothing to gain from DEA's disappearance, and 0:11:35.222 --> 0:11:38.742 she really genuinely just wanted to find out what happened 0:11:38.782 --> 0:11:41.702 to her sister. I'm not going to read out everything 0:11:41.782 --> 0:11:44.662 she says because I think some of it is quite 0:11:45.142 --> 0:11:48.782 defamatory and our lawyers may not be very happy with it. 0:11:48.942 --> 0:11:52.262 So I again, I am going to paraphrase, but she 0:11:53.262 --> 0:11:57.942 did say this, My sister has never been found. She 0:11:57.982 --> 0:12:00.502 has the most beautiful granddaughter she will never meet, and 0:12:00.542 --> 0:12:04.902 the baby will never know her Grandma. Peggy believes that 0:12:05.022 --> 0:12:10.982 Harper knows what happened to Dia, and she expressed her 0:12:11.022 --> 0:12:15.102 anger that Harper was going to be financially benefiting from 0:12:15.982 --> 0:12:17.062 DIA's disappearance. 0:12:17.982 --> 0:12:22.182 Right, So, I mean, speaking of Harper, did you reach 0:12:22.222 --> 0:12:24.582 out to him after this deadline? 0:12:25.062 --> 0:12:27.742 I did. I messaged him a few times. He never 0:12:27.822 --> 0:12:32.942 responded to me. In fact, after my final interview with him, 0:12:32.982 --> 0:12:35.942 where I confronted him about his behavior and about his 0:12:37.262 --> 0:12:43.182 unreliable narrative, he sent me a string of texts basically 0:12:43.262 --> 0:12:45.942 breaking off contact with me, and that was the last 0:12:45.982 --> 0:12:49.022 day I ever heard from him. And just he is 0:12:49.142 --> 0:12:51.902 just a very short excerpt from one of the texts 0:12:51.902 --> 0:12:54.662 he messaged me. There was a time I trusted you 0:12:54.702 --> 0:12:58.702 with information not openly shared. You have betrayed the trust 0:12:58.862 --> 0:13:02.102 and failed to do any info on the info given 0:13:02.782 --> 0:13:05.702 on Clinton. I thought you were non partial, but you 0:13:05.782 --> 0:13:10.022 are swayed by all speculations. So that gives you a 0:13:10.102 --> 0:13:12.462 sense of how he feels about me. So I wasn't 0:13:12.502 --> 0:13:15.502 really surprised that he didn't respond to me reaching out 0:13:16.102 --> 0:13:16.942 right right. 0:13:19.022 --> 0:13:22.902 And then we also heard some from listeners, including some 0:13:23.062 --> 0:13:26.222 questions after we asked for some. You also didn't ask 0:13:26.302 --> 0:13:28.982 me anything on Reddit, So we will talk about some 0:13:29.062 --> 0:13:56.022 of those questions after we take a short break. We're 0:13:56.022 --> 0:13:59.462 going to answer some questions from listeners, but I want 0:13:59.462 --> 0:14:03.262 to start with a bit of background about you, Lucy. 0:14:04.622 --> 0:14:07.662 So in the first episode of the series, you talked 0:14:07.702 --> 0:14:10.302 a little bit about what legie to do a story, 0:14:11.062 --> 0:14:14.382 but people might not know that you have a different 0:14:14.502 --> 0:14:18.582 beat as a reporter usually. Can you talk a little 0:14:18.582 --> 0:14:19.182 bit about that. 0:14:19.742 --> 0:14:24.382 Yeah, I am a climate reporter and I primarily work 0:14:24.462 --> 0:14:29.382 for the BBC, And it's quite funny because this is 0:14:29.502 --> 0:14:33.102 so out of my wheelhouse, and my colleagues at the 0:14:33.142 --> 0:14:37.142 BBC were quite amused to find out that I was 0:14:37.142 --> 0:14:41.062 doing a true crime podcast and actually asked me to 0:14:42.182 --> 0:14:47.702 host a storytelling session for them about reporting that kind 0:14:47.702 --> 0:14:52.702 of big story and you know what, what tips and 0:14:53.102 --> 0:14:57.022 tricks they could take from it. So maybe maybe I'll 0:14:57.022 --> 0:15:00.982 find a niche in environmental crime or something somehow find 0:15:00.982 --> 0:15:02.062 a way to cross them over. 0:15:02.742 --> 0:15:04.382 But yeah, I've had this a lot. 0:15:04.982 --> 0:15:07.342 Yeah, yeah, I know there is there is that. Yeah, 0:15:07.462 --> 0:15:11.462 it's it's not normally what I do. And it was 0:15:12.302 --> 0:15:16.862 a real learning curve just dealing with the courts and 0:15:16.982 --> 0:15:22.422 police and getting sources to talk to me anonymously, and 0:15:22.502 --> 0:15:27.142 even in the whole world of audio because I'm usually 0:15:27.662 --> 0:15:31.982 a print reporter with some video thrown in. I don't 0:15:32.102 --> 0:15:36.022 usually record podcasts. So yeah, it was a very interesting 0:15:36.062 --> 0:15:38.222 process and I learned a lot. 0:15:39.422 --> 0:15:41.382 Well it was most different or what do you think 0:15:41.542 --> 0:15:42.942 was like the most difficult thing. 0:15:44.222 --> 0:15:51.142 I think it was making sure that I that I 0:15:51.302 --> 0:15:56.462 walked the line of impartiality. I think it's very easy 0:15:56.662 --> 0:16:00.222 or tempting to get wrapped up in someone else's narrative 0:16:00.822 --> 0:16:04.982 and making sure that I kept pulling back and saying, Okay, 0:16:04.982 --> 0:16:08.982 as this person a trustworthy source, can I find anyone 0:16:09.022 --> 0:16:10.702 else else to back up what they're saying? You know, 0:16:10.742 --> 0:16:12.702 you kind of really have to go back to journalism 0:16:12.742 --> 0:16:17.182 one O one and just strip everything back to the basics. 0:16:17.262 --> 0:16:21.382 And I think the hardest thing for me was making 0:16:21.622 --> 0:16:22.102 sure the. 0:16:22.142 --> 0:16:23.742 Story was. 0:16:25.182 --> 0:16:30.342 Entertaining and engaging, but not sensationalizing. Anything that was really 0:16:30.422 --> 0:16:34.182 important to me that I didn't I didn't include something 0:16:34.222 --> 0:16:39.862 because it was really sensational. It was juicy tail, you know. 0:16:40.342 --> 0:16:43.462 I really wanted to find out what happened to Dea, 0:16:43.542 --> 0:16:45.142 and it was always coming back to the fact that 0:16:45.182 --> 0:16:50.742 this is a woman who went missing and may have 0:16:50.822 --> 0:16:54.982 been really scared when she went missing, or if she 0:16:55.222 --> 0:16:58.462 is indeed dead, was probably really scared in the last 0:16:58.502 --> 0:17:00.782 few moments of her life. And it was always remembering 0:17:00.822 --> 0:17:06.342 that and staying true to that and not getting carried 0:17:06.382 --> 0:17:08.622 away with anybody else's version of events. 0:17:09.262 --> 0:17:11.942 Mm hmm. Yeah. Also shout out to Kiara and our editor, 0:17:12.022 --> 0:17:15.342 who's so good at being like do we need this detail, 0:17:15.582 --> 0:17:21.502 Like is this relevan this person? Uh huh uh huh. 0:17:21.582 --> 0:17:25.422 That's so hard, especially when so many people had such compelling, 0:17:26.342 --> 0:17:29.222 you know, narratives and stories. Yes, you know, because there 0:17:29.222 --> 0:17:31.942 are real people too, and that totally makes sense. Yeah. 0:17:32.302 --> 0:17:35.422 Everyone had their own idea of what happened, and I 0:17:35.502 --> 0:17:40.062 tried my best to investigate everybody's idea of what had happened. 0:17:40.782 --> 0:17:43.302 But some of you know, sometimes you just can't, like 0:17:43.462 --> 0:17:46.542 the trail just stops and you can't follow it any further. 0:17:46.982 --> 0:17:49.502 You know. At the beginning, when I first started talking 0:17:49.542 --> 0:17:54.222 to Keith Harper, he told me that he had spoken 0:17:54.262 --> 0:17:58.342 to a fireman who had seen Dea out hiking shortly 0:17:58.342 --> 0:18:01.982 after she went missing, and that he thinks she had 0:18:02.022 --> 0:18:04.982 met somebody from where she used to live in La 0:18:05.022 --> 0:18:07.942 Joya in San Diego, and they had met her in 0:18:08.022 --> 0:18:12.582 a van, and she had voluntarily gone off somewhere on 0:18:12.622 --> 0:18:17.342 her own, and she was waiting somewhere for you know, 0:18:17.462 --> 0:18:18.902 the coast to be clear, and then she was going 0:18:18.942 --> 0:18:20.862 to call Harper and they were going to go off 0:18:20.902 --> 0:18:24.662 and get married. And I really followed that trail to 0:18:24.782 --> 0:18:27.182 try and find that fireman and to try and find 0:18:27.182 --> 0:18:29.342 that van, and to track all these people down that 0:18:29.422 --> 0:18:35.502 he had mentioned, because at the time I didn't know 0:18:35.702 --> 0:18:38.582 that he was going to be a potential suspect, And 0:18:38.662 --> 0:18:40.982 so I did spend quite a lot of time looking 0:18:41.022 --> 0:18:45.142 into that, and for a for a bit of time 0:18:45.262 --> 0:18:48.262 I thought that, yeah, she had gone off on her own. 0:18:49.822 --> 0:18:53.582 Right, that was a genuine theory. Yeah, because for many people, 0:18:53.622 --> 0:18:55.982 I think, at least really on who you spoke to 0:18:56.142 --> 0:18:58.702 mentioned that too, right, like the possibility that she could 0:18:58.742 --> 0:19:02.102 have left on her own or maybe run away or 0:19:02.142 --> 0:19:02.822 something like that. 0:19:02.902 --> 0:19:04.822 Yeah, there were all of these court proceedings going on 0:19:04.862 --> 0:19:07.782 with her kids, and so many people said to me, 0:19:07.902 --> 0:19:11.102 she was so over whelmed by that, and so it 0:19:11.222 --> 0:19:15.022 was you know, it wasn't It wasn't an outlandish theory 0:19:15.022 --> 0:19:16.702 at the time, But now I look back on it 0:19:16.742 --> 0:19:21.462 and I think, yeah, no, she that she definitely didn't 0:19:21.502 --> 0:19:23.102 just trot off on her own, accord. 0:19:23.462 --> 0:19:27.022 M m M. So I feel like related to some 0:19:27.102 --> 0:19:29.342 of what you're talking about in terms of like first 0:19:29.342 --> 0:19:32.302 getting in touch with everybody, I think a lot of 0:19:32.382 --> 0:19:35.102 listeners were really curious about, like how you got people 0:19:35.182 --> 0:19:39.582 to speak with you, especially you know on Mike. What 0:19:39.662 --> 0:19:42.262 was that process Like was that hard or difficult? 0:19:42.902 --> 0:19:49.702 It was really hard, yeah, because you you are asking 0:19:49.782 --> 0:19:56.422 people to publicly say what they think happened to somebody 0:19:56.422 --> 0:19:58.342 and point the finger at someone else, And a lot 0:19:58.342 --> 0:20:01.302 of people wouldn't talk to me because they were too scared. 0:20:02.022 --> 0:20:05.742 And I never was able to speak to DEA's daughter, Chrissara, 0:20:06.502 --> 0:20:08.622 and I tried very hard to speak to her. She 0:20:08.622 --> 0:20:12.022 didn't respond to me, but she would never go on record. 0:20:12.342 --> 0:20:16.022 There was also someone else mentioned in DEA's will, a 0:20:16.062 --> 0:20:18.382 former personal trainer of hers, and he wouldn't speak to 0:20:18.382 --> 0:20:21.702 me either. A lot of DEA's friends in Idlewa wouldn't 0:20:21.702 --> 0:20:26.542 speak to me. So it took. Yeah, it took quite 0:20:26.542 --> 0:20:29.462 a while to find people. And you know, you really 0:20:29.502 --> 0:20:36.422 have to exercise all of your investigative skills and just track, 0:20:36.702 --> 0:20:39.342 just be relentless and trying to track people down. 0:20:39.582 --> 0:20:41.622 And you also, I think for a lot of people, 0:20:41.662 --> 0:20:44.102 you had a lot of conversations before you did, like 0:20:44.142 --> 0:20:46.502 a formal interview yea on the record, right. 0:20:46.622 --> 0:20:50.502 Yeah, there was a lot of background chatting and explaining 0:20:50.542 --> 0:20:54.142 who I was and what my intentions were, and the 0:20:54.182 --> 0:20:57.222 fact that I just wanted to tell the story and 0:20:57.542 --> 0:21:01.822 I wasn't really interested in taking sides. And I think 0:21:01.862 --> 0:21:07.102 a lot of people responded to that, And you know 0:21:07.662 --> 0:21:11.782 a lot of people wanted Dea to be found, and 0:21:11.822 --> 0:21:15.342 so I wanted to help and thought that perhaps if 0:21:15.382 --> 0:21:18.822 they appeared on the podcast, it might jog somebody's memory 0:21:18.822 --> 0:21:21.862 about something, or it might encourage someone else to come out. 0:21:23.462 --> 0:21:25.182 Out of the woodwork, and. 0:21:27.102 --> 0:21:33.022 Unfortunately, there wasn't any kind of massive breakthrough that I'd hoped. 0:21:32.822 --> 0:21:34.862 For, you know, so far. 0:21:35.302 --> 0:21:37.542 Yeah, it hasn't happened yet. 0:21:38.102 --> 0:21:46.542 Yeah yet. So another listener question was specifically I think 0:21:46.582 --> 0:21:51.102 about Harper and why he focused so much on the 0:21:51.302 --> 0:21:56.542 Psychics Lake theory and not the Arizona theory. And I guess, 0:21:56.622 --> 0:22:00.342 just to recap, you know, the psychics that worked with 0:22:00.542 --> 0:22:05.102 Kelly Snyder had pinpointed a few possible coordinates that they 0:22:05.142 --> 0:22:09.742 thought that DIA's body maybe a few of them, or 0:22:09.942 --> 0:22:13.902 in this lake in Idlewild near Idlewild that they ended 0:22:13.942 --> 0:22:18.942 up searching. But there was also this coordinate in Arizona 0:22:19.102 --> 0:22:22.502 that we also touched on in our series. Yeah, I mean, 0:22:22.542 --> 0:22:25.822 do you have a sense of why Harper focused so 0:22:25.902 --> 0:22:27.062 much on one another other? 0:22:27.982 --> 0:22:31.342 I honestly don't know if he even remembered so it 0:22:31.382 --> 0:22:34.702 was an Arizona coordinate. It's so hard to know. With him. 0:22:35.022 --> 0:22:39.462 Sometimes I felt like he was genuinely confused. Other times 0:22:39.502 --> 0:22:43.582 I felt like he was trying to shape a very 0:22:43.582 --> 0:22:48.262 specific narrative, and then we just lose track of what 0:22:48.342 --> 0:22:56.342 he told me. So I never really quite got down 0:22:56.942 --> 0:23:00.622 to what the truth was with him. Or at least 0:23:00.862 --> 0:23:06.382 what he believed the truth was. And that was frustrating 0:23:06.422 --> 0:23:08.902 for me because I would never be able to get 0:23:08.902 --> 0:23:13.302 at answer, and so I could just never put him 0:23:13.342 --> 0:23:13.782 down on that. 0:23:14.382 --> 0:23:18.982 Yeah, and I think the Arizona coordinate we mentioned sort 0:23:18.982 --> 0:23:22.222 of talking to Kelly a little bit more about and 0:23:22.742 --> 0:23:26.702 you know, about why he hadn't searched shit. Did you 0:23:26.782 --> 0:23:29.222 hear anything else from him about that? 0:23:30.102 --> 0:23:32.502 I kept pushing him on that. I kept saying, please 0:23:32.862 --> 0:23:35.182 please go and search it, Please let me come with you, 0:23:35.222 --> 0:23:38.422 and he won't. He won't search it until he's got 0:23:38.422 --> 0:23:41.462 written permission from the police, which, like I said earlier, 0:23:41.622 --> 0:23:44.022 thinks very unlikely to happen. Right. 0:23:45.302 --> 0:23:49.422 So, one of the last listener questions that we got 0:23:49.542 --> 0:23:54.262 was about DIA's dog Ruby. What updates did you get 0:23:54.302 --> 0:23:55.062 about her? 0:23:56.262 --> 0:24:03.462 So unfortunately she passed away under Harper's care. I did 0:24:03.622 --> 0:24:09.342 get some correspondence from Clinton a few years ago go 0:24:09.782 --> 0:24:13.422 about DEA's horses and the fact that Harper wasn't looking 0:24:13.422 --> 0:24:16.262 after them properly, and he sent me some quite upsetting 0:24:16.262 --> 0:24:21.982 photos about their hoofs being horribly overgrown. So it was 0:24:22.062 --> 0:24:25.942 really it seemed really tragic because Dea was such an 0:24:25.942 --> 0:24:30.302 animal lover, and for that to happen just felt like 0:24:30.342 --> 0:24:32.782 an added insult to everything else that had happened. 0:24:35.262 --> 0:24:38.982 So, in general, have there been any updates from Riverside 0:24:38.982 --> 0:24:43.142 Sheriff's Department or Detective Lrero on the case? 0:24:43.382 --> 0:24:47.062 Oh? No, it's been really Again. Another thing that's been 0:24:47.102 --> 0:24:51.022 really frustrating is that there's just been nothing. I've been asking. 0:24:51.702 --> 0:24:53.542 The only thing that they tell me is that the 0:24:53.582 --> 0:24:57.062 case is still active and they're still investigating. I have 0:24:57.302 --> 0:25:00.902 been told by somebody I considered to be a reliable 0:25:00.982 --> 0:25:03.702 source that they're going to search the ranch again, but 0:25:03.982 --> 0:25:07.462 I don't quite know when that's going to happen, considering 0:25:07.502 --> 0:25:08.822 that it's up. 0:25:08.742 --> 0:25:13.942 For saf So I think we should just talk about 0:25:14.182 --> 0:25:17.142 maybe like your last thoughts and feelings, like how are 0:25:17.222 --> 0:25:20.182 you feeling now that the deadline has passed, now that 0:25:20.222 --> 0:25:21.902 the series is out? About everything? 0:25:23.302 --> 0:25:28.622 It was this weird sense of anti climax. It was 0:25:29.222 --> 0:25:34.022 like everybody was working towards this deadline of when she 0:25:34.182 --> 0:25:37.342 was going to be declared dead and her assets divided, 0:25:37.662 --> 0:25:43.302 and then it came and went, and I felt sad 0:25:43.422 --> 0:25:48.742 that this date had passed and she still hadn't been found, 0:25:49.102 --> 0:25:54.622 and nobody knows what happened to her, And yeah, it 0:25:54.702 --> 0:25:58.662 was just sad, I think, because you realize how many 0:25:58.662 --> 0:26:03.422 other people go missing and that's it. Nobody ever really knows. 0:26:03.462 --> 0:26:07.382 And then you think about the people left behind and 0:26:07.422 --> 0:26:15.142