1 00:00:15,422 --> 00:00:15,902 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:30,302 --> 00:00:33,822 Speaker 2: Hey guys, it's Lucy here with a bonus episode of 3 00:00:33,942 --> 00:00:38,182 Speaker 2: Where's Dear. Today, I'm going to share an update on 4 00:00:38,302 --> 00:00:39,222 Speaker 2: where things stand. 5 00:00:39,382 --> 00:00:40,502 Speaker 1: More than a whole. 6 00:00:40,342 --> 00:00:44,302 Speaker 2: Year after we release the series, A pretty significant date 7 00:00:44,342 --> 00:00:48,182 Speaker 2: in the Dea Abrams investigation has now passed, and I've 8 00:00:48,222 --> 00:00:50,702 Speaker 2: been in touch with my sources about their reactions to 9 00:00:50,742 --> 00:00:55,022 Speaker 2: that and the podcast. I'm also answering questions from listeners 10 00:00:55,062 --> 00:00:57,062 Speaker 2: and getting into some of the details that we couldn't 11 00:00:57,102 --> 00:00:59,982 Speaker 2: quite fit into the series. And here to help me 12 00:01:00,022 --> 00:01:02,782 Speaker 2: out is my amazing producer, Daphne Chen. 13 00:01:03,742 --> 00:01:05,942 Speaker 1: Hey, Licy, how's it going good? 14 00:01:06,102 --> 00:01:06,502 Speaker 2: Thank you? 15 00:01:06,582 --> 00:01:11,542 Speaker 1: It's been a while. It has been so what have 16 00:01:11,582 --> 00:01:15,702 Speaker 1: you got to ask me? Lots of questions, lots of updates, 17 00:01:15,942 --> 00:01:18,862 Speaker 1: and I definitely want to talk to you about the 18 00:01:18,902 --> 00:01:24,662 Speaker 1: important deadline, But let's start with the general reactions from 19 00:01:24,662 --> 00:01:28,342 Speaker 1: the people you interviewed after the series came out. Do 20 00:01:28,342 --> 00:01:30,502 Speaker 1: you hear back from them about anything? 21 00:01:31,342 --> 00:01:34,982 Speaker 2: I did have one message from Clinton saying how disappointed 22 00:01:34,982 --> 00:01:42,182 Speaker 2: he was in the reporting. That was after the first 23 00:01:42,222 --> 00:01:44,862 Speaker 2: episode came out. I encouraged him to listen to the 24 00:01:45,022 --> 00:01:48,062 Speaker 2: entire podcast, but I didn't hear any more thoughts from him. 25 00:01:48,062 --> 00:01:53,622 Speaker 2: On that, I had a few messages from Peggy saying 26 00:01:53,622 --> 00:01:56,862 Speaker 2: how grateful she was that we had covered her sister's disappearance, 27 00:01:58,022 --> 00:02:03,102 Speaker 2: and so that was quite nice. And then I did 28 00:02:03,182 --> 00:02:06,702 Speaker 2: have a couple of people get in touch with me 29 00:02:07,182 --> 00:02:12,382 Speaker 2: asking me to investigate certain angles. One was a lawyer 30 00:02:12,462 --> 00:02:16,422 Speaker 2: that Dia had actually approached before she went missing. She 31 00:02:17,022 --> 00:02:21,782 Speaker 2: didn't ever officially retain this lawyer because she disappeared, and 32 00:02:21,822 --> 00:02:26,182 Speaker 2: the lawyer wouldn't speak to me because of client attorney privilege, 33 00:02:26,942 --> 00:02:29,622 Speaker 2: so I couldn't get a lot of information. 34 00:02:29,182 --> 00:02:29,662 Speaker 1: Out of her. 35 00:02:29,982 --> 00:02:34,182 Speaker 2: But she did tell me that I and the police 36 00:02:34,222 --> 00:02:39,062 Speaker 2: should be closely looking at the case that Dea had 37 00:02:39,942 --> 00:02:43,622 Speaker 2: in the courts with her two kids over her late 38 00:02:43,702 --> 00:02:48,142 Speaker 2: husband's estate. I had done quite a lot of research 39 00:02:48,182 --> 00:02:52,062 Speaker 2: into that, but I never really came up with anything 40 00:02:52,062 --> 00:02:52,862 Speaker 2: that I thought was. 41 00:02:52,822 --> 00:02:56,702 Speaker 1: Substantial, and she kind of loved it at that. She 42 00:02:57,022 --> 00:02:59,262 Speaker 1: didn't want to do an on record interview now at 43 00:02:59,302 --> 00:02:59,902 Speaker 1: the time. 44 00:03:00,262 --> 00:03:04,702 Speaker 2: No, unfortunately not. But again, it's it was the same 45 00:03:04,782 --> 00:03:06,902 Speaker 2: kind of thing that I found throughout the series, which 46 00:03:06,942 --> 00:03:11,782 Speaker 2: is people had all these experience, says of interacting with Harper, 47 00:03:12,262 --> 00:03:14,982 Speaker 2: but none of it was ever a smoking gun. There 48 00:03:15,022 --> 00:03:18,262 Speaker 2: was never any hard evidence, and that's why there's never 49 00:03:18,302 --> 00:03:20,342 Speaker 2: been any charges brought against anybody. 50 00:03:20,862 --> 00:03:23,382 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, Yeah. I feel like we talked about that 51 00:03:23,422 --> 00:03:28,542 Speaker 1: a lot. Was just the difference between you know, characterizing somebody, 52 00:03:28,622 --> 00:03:32,902 Speaker 1: which we did a little bit in the series, that's 53 00:03:33,382 --> 00:03:37,022 Speaker 1: different from evidence for a case or like anything like 54 00:03:37,062 --> 00:03:40,782 Speaker 1: that that might be helpful in you know, a police investigation. 55 00:03:42,382 --> 00:03:45,742 Speaker 1: So hopefully we told that line, but it is really 56 00:03:45,822 --> 00:03:48,702 Speaker 1: hard to differentiate between the two of them sometimes. 57 00:03:48,982 --> 00:03:49,342 Speaker 2: Yeah. 58 00:03:49,542 --> 00:03:52,342 Speaker 1: So, and there was one other person I think you 59 00:03:52,462 --> 00:03:56,182 Speaker 1: heard from after the series aired, and it was a 60 00:03:56,222 --> 00:04:01,062 Speaker 1: woman who came across something from DIA's estate. Can you 61 00:04:01,102 --> 00:04:01,702 Speaker 1: talk about that? 62 00:04:02,622 --> 00:04:08,542 Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I received an email from a woman who 63 00:04:08,542 --> 00:04:12,062 Speaker 2: said that she had in her possession a pair of 64 00:04:12,382 --> 00:04:18,862 Speaker 2: DEA's cowboy boots. And this was particularly interesting because there 65 00:04:18,982 --> 00:04:22,502 Speaker 2: was a little thread that we decided not to include 66 00:04:22,822 --> 00:04:26,382 Speaker 2: in the podcast just because we already had so much information. 67 00:04:27,222 --> 00:04:30,742 Speaker 2: And it was again another court case that Harper had 68 00:04:31,622 --> 00:04:35,422 Speaker 2: filed trying to get reimbursed for a pair of cowboy 69 00:04:35,462 --> 00:04:40,302 Speaker 2: boots that Dea had bought and never picked up. And 70 00:04:41,342 --> 00:04:46,342 Speaker 2: this was I believe this was actually how I found 71 00:04:47,302 --> 00:04:53,782 Speaker 2: Harper's details because when he logged this complaint in the courts. 72 00:04:54,302 --> 00:04:56,782 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, it kind of flagged him as 73 00:04:56,822 --> 00:04:59,822 Speaker 2: a person, and then you're able to trace somebody because 74 00:04:59,822 --> 00:05:03,702 Speaker 2: it's public record. And so the fact that, by the way, 75 00:05:03,702 --> 00:05:05,982 Speaker 2: that court case never went anywhere, it was thrown out 76 00:05:06,022 --> 00:05:09,102 Speaker 2: of court, and it was just such a strange little twist, 77 00:05:10,142 --> 00:05:12,862 Speaker 2: and the fact that this woman was emailing me saying, oh, 78 00:05:12,862 --> 00:05:16,942 Speaker 2: I have a pair of DEA's cowboy boots. I was, Yeah, 79 00:05:16,942 --> 00:05:22,782 Speaker 2: that was quite curveble, and I did look into it. 80 00:05:22,782 --> 00:05:26,822 Speaker 2: It turned out that it wasn't anything significant, and she 81 00:05:27,102 --> 00:05:32,302 Speaker 2: had come across them completely legally. And unfortunately that was 82 00:05:32,342 --> 00:05:36,302 Speaker 2: another rabbit hole that didn't go anywhere, which is kind 83 00:05:36,422 --> 00:05:40,222 Speaker 2: of how I felt a lot of the reporting when 84 00:05:40,342 --> 00:05:42,382 Speaker 2: on the series. I would go down all these different 85 00:05:42,422 --> 00:05:44,342 Speaker 2: rabbit holes and they just wouldn't go anywhere. 86 00:05:44,502 --> 00:05:47,302 Speaker 1: But once once in a while something did. Yeah, you 87 00:05:47,422 --> 00:05:47,822 Speaker 1: never know. 88 00:05:48,382 --> 00:05:50,702 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of why I felt like I had 89 00:05:50,742 --> 00:05:51,902 Speaker 2: to just follow all of them. 90 00:05:52,182 --> 00:05:56,422 Speaker 1: Right. So we ended the series on a major deadline 91 00:05:56,462 --> 00:06:00,302 Speaker 1: that everyone was waiting for. This date of June twenty 92 00:06:00,382 --> 00:06:03,662 Speaker 1: twenty five, can you just give us a quick recap 93 00:06:03,782 --> 00:06:06,062 Speaker 1: of you know what this statement? 94 00:06:07,582 --> 00:06:12,902 Speaker 2: So Dea Abram disappeared on June's sixth, twenty twenty and 95 00:06:13,502 --> 00:06:16,102 Speaker 2: in the state of California, if you've been missing for 96 00:06:16,222 --> 00:06:19,342 Speaker 2: five years, you are considered legally dead. 97 00:06:20,142 --> 00:06:24,102 Speaker 1: Right, So we were waiting for June sixth of twenty 98 00:06:24,182 --> 00:06:28,262 Speaker 1: twenty five, which has come in passed and what happened. 99 00:06:29,382 --> 00:06:32,302 Speaker 2: So Dia has never been found, her body has never 100 00:06:32,342 --> 00:06:37,542 Speaker 2: been found, and as a result, she is now considered 101 00:06:37,662 --> 00:06:41,582 Speaker 2: legally dead according to the state of California, and her 102 00:06:41,622 --> 00:06:45,062 Speaker 2: assets are going to be divided up in three ways. 103 00:06:45,302 --> 00:06:49,262 Speaker 2: Half is going to go to Keith Harper, who says 104 00:06:49,342 --> 00:06:51,742 Speaker 2: that he was engaged to Dia Abrams, although this was 105 00:06:51,782 --> 00:06:55,142 Speaker 2: always contested by both of her children and her friends. 106 00:06:55,822 --> 00:06:57,782 Speaker 2: And the other half is going to be split equally 107 00:06:57,822 --> 00:07:01,422 Speaker 2: between her son Clinton and her daughter Chrissara. Two of 108 00:07:01,422 --> 00:07:05,102 Speaker 2: her properties have already been sold. Benita Vista, where she 109 00:07:05,302 --> 00:07:08,342 Speaker 2: primarily lived and was last seen, is on the market 110 00:07:08,382 --> 00:07:12,342 Speaker 2: for around three million dollars, and the total value of 111 00:07:12,382 --> 00:07:15,742 Speaker 2: her estate is over five million dollars. So there's quite 112 00:07:15,782 --> 00:07:19,182 Speaker 2: a bit of money involved, and I'm sure that the 113 00:07:19,222 --> 00:07:22,422 Speaker 2: parties are pretty interested to get this all wrapped up. 114 00:07:22,702 --> 00:07:29,022 Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're basically in the middle of evaluating her estate. 115 00:07:29,302 --> 00:07:33,782 Speaker 1: But even before this deadline passed, Harper was kind of 116 00:07:33,862 --> 00:07:36,582 Speaker 1: looking to try and get some money. Can you talk 117 00:07:36,622 --> 00:07:38,582 Speaker 1: about that and what was happening there. 118 00:07:39,022 --> 00:07:43,262 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he has had a pattern of filing quite 119 00:07:43,302 --> 00:07:49,342 Speaker 2: a lot of petitions throughout DIA's disappearance, and in April 120 00:07:49,382 --> 00:07:53,102 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, he filed another petition looking to be 121 00:07:53,222 --> 00:07:56,422 Speaker 2: reimburseed for half a million dollars for the work he 122 00:07:56,502 --> 00:07:59,422 Speaker 2: says he did on the ranch. He claimed he worked 123 00:07:59,462 --> 00:08:02,182 Speaker 2: ten hours a day, seven days a week to just 124 00:08:02,262 --> 00:08:05,822 Speaker 2: make sure that it didn't fall into disrepair. But I 125 00:08:05,902 --> 00:08:08,582 Speaker 2: can't imagine that the judge is going to grant that 126 00:08:08,622 --> 00:08:12,742 Speaker 2: petition considering that in the past, all of these similar 127 00:08:12,862 --> 00:08:16,622 Speaker 2: kind of actions that he's brought into court have been dismissed. 128 00:08:18,342 --> 00:08:21,782 Speaker 1: So since this deadline has passed, you've also reached out 129 00:08:21,862 --> 00:08:24,222 Speaker 1: to many of those involved who you were in touch 130 00:08:24,262 --> 00:08:27,582 Speaker 1: with for the series. What are some of the reactions 131 00:08:27,662 --> 00:08:28,182 Speaker 1: from them. 132 00:08:28,542 --> 00:08:31,262 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I did reach out to most of the 133 00:08:31,262 --> 00:08:34,102 Speaker 2: people that I spoke to for the podcast to see 134 00:08:34,102 --> 00:08:38,382 Speaker 2: if they wanted to share any thoughts, any feelings, and 135 00:08:38,822 --> 00:08:42,822 Speaker 2: a few people got back to me. I was texting 136 00:08:42,862 --> 00:08:47,262 Speaker 2: with Clinton the three hundred thousand dollar reward that he 137 00:08:48,382 --> 00:08:51,822 Speaker 2: organized is still active and they are looking for information 138 00:08:52,102 --> 00:08:56,582 Speaker 2: about her disappearance. He unfortunately didn't get back to me 139 00:08:56,622 --> 00:09:00,422 Speaker 2: in time with an on the record quote. He did 140 00:09:00,462 --> 00:09:04,262 Speaker 2: forward me an email saying that he has been harassed 141 00:09:04,302 --> 00:09:08,542 Speaker 2: incessantly since his mother went missing, and since his last 142 00:09:08,582 --> 00:09:13,102 Speaker 2: media into view it has increased one hundredfold, and he's 143 00:09:13,182 --> 00:09:18,862 Speaker 2: convinced that he is being stalked and he's going to 144 00:09:19,142 --> 00:09:24,462 Speaker 2: end up being charged with something. And again this is 145 00:09:25,222 --> 00:09:27,542 Speaker 2: I received a lot of emails like this from him. 146 00:09:27,982 --> 00:09:30,582 Speaker 2: In fact, I received almost one hundred emails in the 147 00:09:30,622 --> 00:09:34,182 Speaker 2: duration of my reporting that he had sent to police 148 00:09:34,222 --> 00:09:38,902 Speaker 2: and other people. He was just completely convinced that there 149 00:09:38,982 --> 00:09:42,022 Speaker 2: was some kind of group that was after him, and 150 00:09:42,062 --> 00:09:46,982 Speaker 2: he still, unfortunately seems to believe that. He did tell 151 00:09:47,662 --> 00:09:53,382 Speaker 2: David Godfredson, the reporter from CBS, that he thinks Keith 152 00:09:53,422 --> 00:09:56,782 Speaker 2: Harper got away with murder, and that not only did 153 00:09:56,822 --> 00:10:01,262 Speaker 2: he get away with murder, but he's profiting tremendously. I 154 00:10:01,302 --> 00:10:05,822 Speaker 2: also spoke with Kelly Snyder, who, if you remember, is 155 00:10:05,982 --> 00:10:10,742 Speaker 2: the former DEA agent who runs a miss persons organization 156 00:10:11,622 --> 00:10:16,262 Speaker 2: and had conducted two searches with Keith Harper looking for Dea, 157 00:10:17,302 --> 00:10:19,742 Speaker 2: and he sent me quite a long quote that I'm 158 00:10:19,822 --> 00:10:25,422 Speaker 2: going to paraphrase. He still believes he knows where Dea 159 00:10:25,502 --> 00:10:28,462 Speaker 2: is buried, and he believes that his search dogs alerted 160 00:10:28,502 --> 00:10:32,142 Speaker 2: to this area, which is up in the Idle World area, 161 00:10:32,462 --> 00:10:35,862 Speaker 2: near where Dea owned her Beneatha Vista ranch and where 162 00:10:35,902 --> 00:10:42,542 Speaker 2: she lived. And he expressed his frustration that the police 163 00:10:42,582 --> 00:10:47,342 Speaker 2: hadn't searched this area properly, and he called it laziness 164 00:10:47,422 --> 00:10:53,542 Speaker 2: and incompetence, and so he said he's not going to 165 00:10:53,582 --> 00:10:57,462 Speaker 2: be searching again unless he gets written permission from the police, 166 00:10:57,702 --> 00:11:02,022 Speaker 2: which is very unlikely to happen. So unfortunately that was 167 00:11:02,222 --> 00:11:06,742 Speaker 2: a bit of a dead end with him. 168 00:11:06,862 --> 00:11:09,742 Speaker 1: He never really means his words. I think around how 169 00:11:09,742 --> 00:11:11,262 Speaker 1: he feels about the police and life. 170 00:11:11,262 --> 00:11:11,782 Speaker 2: Now he doesn't. 171 00:11:12,542 --> 00:11:14,942 Speaker 1: And we'll talk a little bit more about, you know, 172 00:11:14,982 --> 00:11:19,582 Speaker 1: the Riverside Sheriff's apartment later. But you also heard from 173 00:11:19,702 --> 00:11:21,382 Speaker 1: Peggy DIA's sister. 174 00:11:21,982 --> 00:11:24,102 Speaker 2: I did, and it was really lovely being back in 175 00:11:24,142 --> 00:11:28,902 Speaker 2: touch with her, because she really, out of everyone, seemed 176 00:11:28,902 --> 00:11:31,262 Speaker 2: to be the one that hadn't well. She was the 177 00:11:31,262 --> 00:11:35,142 Speaker 2: one who had nothing to gain from DEA's disappearance, and 178 00:11:35,222 --> 00:11:38,742 Speaker 2: she really genuinely just wanted to find out what happened 179 00:11:38,782 --> 00:11:41,702 Speaker 2: to her sister. I'm not going to read out everything 180 00:11:41,782 --> 00:11:44,662 Speaker 2: she says because I think some of it is quite 181 00:11:45,142 --> 00:11:48,782 Speaker 2: defamatory and our lawyers may not be very happy with it. 182 00:11:48,942 --> 00:11:52,262 Speaker 2: So I again, I am going to paraphrase, but she 183 00:11:53,262 --> 00:11:57,942 Speaker 2: did say this, My sister has never been found. She 184 00:11:57,982 --> 00:12:00,502 Speaker 2: has the most beautiful granddaughter she will never meet, and 185 00:12:00,542 --> 00:12:04,902 Speaker 2: the baby will never know her Grandma. Peggy believes that 186 00:12:05,022 --> 00:12:10,982 Speaker 2: Harper knows what happened to Dia, and she expressed her 187 00:12:11,022 --> 00:12:15,102 Speaker 2: anger that Harper was going to be financially benefiting from 188 00:12:15,982 --> 00:12:17,062 Speaker 2: DIA's disappearance. 189 00:12:17,982 --> 00:12:22,182 Speaker 1: Right, So, I mean, speaking of Harper, did you reach 190 00:12:22,222 --> 00:12:24,582 Speaker 1: out to him after this deadline? 191 00:12:25,062 --> 00:12:27,742 Speaker 2: I did. I messaged him a few times. He never 192 00:12:27,822 --> 00:12:32,942 Speaker 2: responded to me. In fact, after my final interview with him, 193 00:12:32,982 --> 00:12:35,942 Speaker 2: where I confronted him about his behavior and about his 194 00:12:37,262 --> 00:12:43,182 Speaker 2: unreliable narrative, he sent me a string of texts basically 195 00:12:43,262 --> 00:12:45,942 Speaker 2: breaking off contact with me, and that was the last 196 00:12:45,982 --> 00:12:49,022 Speaker 2: day I ever heard from him. And just he is 197 00:12:49,142 --> 00:12:51,902 Speaker 2: just a very short excerpt from one of the texts 198 00:12:51,902 --> 00:12:54,662 Speaker 2: he messaged me. There was a time I trusted you 199 00:12:54,702 --> 00:12:58,702 Speaker 2: with information not openly shared. You have betrayed the trust 200 00:12:58,862 --> 00:13:02,102 Speaker 2: and failed to do any info on the info given 201 00:13:02,782 --> 00:13:05,702 Speaker 2: on Clinton. I thought you were non partial, but you 202 00:13:05,782 --> 00:13:10,022 Speaker 2: are swayed by all speculations. So that gives you a 203 00:13:10,102 --> 00:13:12,462 Speaker 2: sense of how he feels about me. So I wasn't 204 00:13:12,502 --> 00:13:15,502 Speaker 2: really surprised that he didn't respond to me reaching out 205 00:13:16,102 --> 00:13:16,942 Speaker 2: right right. 206 00:13:19,022 --> 00:13:22,902 Speaker 1: And then we also heard some from listeners, including some 207 00:13:23,062 --> 00:13:26,222 Speaker 1: questions after we asked for some. You also didn't ask 208 00:13:26,302 --> 00:13:28,982 Speaker 1: me anything on Reddit, So we will talk about some 209 00:13:29,062 --> 00:13:56,022 Speaker 1: of those questions after we take a short break. We're 210 00:13:56,022 --> 00:13:59,462 Speaker 1: going to answer some questions from listeners, but I want 211 00:13:59,462 --> 00:14:03,262 Speaker 1: to start with a bit of background about you, Lucy. 212 00:14:04,622 --> 00:14:07,662 Speaker 1: So in the first episode of the series, you talked 213 00:14:07,702 --> 00:14:10,302 Speaker 1: a little bit about what legie to do a story, 214 00:14:11,062 --> 00:14:14,382 Speaker 1: but people might not know that you have a different 215 00:14:14,502 --> 00:14:18,582 Speaker 1: beat as a reporter usually. Can you talk a little 216 00:14:18,582 --> 00:14:19,182 Speaker 1: bit about that. 217 00:14:19,742 --> 00:14:24,382 Speaker 2: Yeah, I am a climate reporter and I primarily work 218 00:14:24,462 --> 00:14:29,382 Speaker 2: for the BBC, And it's quite funny because this is 219 00:14:29,502 --> 00:14:33,102 Speaker 2: so out of my wheelhouse, and my colleagues at the 220 00:14:33,142 --> 00:14:37,142 Speaker 2: BBC were quite amused to find out that I was 221 00:14:37,142 --> 00:14:41,062 Speaker 2: doing a true crime podcast and actually asked me to 222 00:14:42,182 --> 00:14:47,702 Speaker 2: host a storytelling session for them about reporting that kind 223 00:14:47,702 --> 00:14:52,702 Speaker 2: of big story and you know what, what tips and 224 00:14:53,102 --> 00:14:57,022 Speaker 2: tricks they could take from it. So maybe maybe I'll 225 00:14:57,022 --> 00:15:00,982 Speaker 2: find a niche in environmental crime or something somehow find 226 00:15:00,982 --> 00:15:02,062 Speaker 2: a way to cross them over. 227 00:15:02,742 --> 00:15:04,382 Speaker 1: But yeah, I've had this a lot. 228 00:15:04,982 --> 00:15:07,342 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know there is there is that. Yeah, 229 00:15:07,462 --> 00:15:11,462 Speaker 2: it's it's not normally what I do. And it was 230 00:15:12,302 --> 00:15:16,862 Speaker 2: a real learning curve just dealing with the courts and 231 00:15:16,982 --> 00:15:22,422 Speaker 2: police and getting sources to talk to me anonymously, and 232 00:15:22,502 --> 00:15:27,142 Speaker 2: even in the whole world of audio because I'm usually 233 00:15:27,662 --> 00:15:31,982 Speaker 2: a print reporter with some video thrown in. I don't 234 00:15:32,102 --> 00:15:36,022 Speaker 2: usually record podcasts. So yeah, it was a very interesting 235 00:15:36,062 --> 00:15:38,222 Speaker 2: process and I learned a lot. 236 00:15:39,422 --> 00:15:41,382 Speaker 1: Well it was most different or what do you think 237 00:15:41,542 --> 00:15:42,942 Speaker 1: was like the most difficult thing. 238 00:15:44,222 --> 00:15:51,142 Speaker 2: I think it was making sure that I that I 239 00:15:51,302 --> 00:15:56,462 Speaker 2: walked the line of impartiality. I think it's very easy 240 00:15:56,662 --> 00:16:00,222 Speaker 2: or tempting to get wrapped up in someone else's narrative 241 00:16:00,822 --> 00:16:04,982 Speaker 2: and making sure that I kept pulling back and saying, Okay, 242 00:16:04,982 --> 00:16:08,982 Speaker 2: as this person a trustworthy source, can I find anyone 243 00:16:09,022 --> 00:16:10,702 Speaker 2: else else to back up what they're saying? You know, 244 00:16:10,742 --> 00:16:12,702 Speaker 2: you kind of really have to go back to journalism 245 00:16:12,742 --> 00:16:17,182 Speaker 2: one O one and just strip everything back to the basics. 246 00:16:17,262 --> 00:16:21,382 Speaker 2: And I think the hardest thing for me was making 247 00:16:21,622 --> 00:16:22,102 Speaker 2: sure the. 248 00:16:22,142 --> 00:16:23,742 Speaker 1: Story was. 249 00:16:25,182 --> 00:16:30,342 Speaker 2: Entertaining and engaging, but not sensationalizing. Anything that was really 250 00:16:30,422 --> 00:16:34,182 Speaker 2: important to me that I didn't I didn't include something 251 00:16:34,222 --> 00:16:39,862 Speaker 2: because it was really sensational. It was juicy tail, you know. 252 00:16:40,342 --> 00:16:43,462 Speaker 2: I really wanted to find out what happened to Dea, 253 00:16:43,542 --> 00:16:45,142 Speaker 2: and it was always coming back to the fact that 254 00:16:45,182 --> 00:16:50,742 Speaker 2: this is a woman who went missing and may have 255 00:16:50,822 --> 00:16:54,982 Speaker 2: been really scared when she went missing, or if she 256 00:16:55,222 --> 00:16:58,462 Speaker 2: is indeed dead, was probably really scared in the last 257 00:16:58,502 --> 00:17:00,782 Speaker 2: few moments of her life. And it was always remembering 258 00:17:00,822 --> 00:17:06,342 Speaker 2: that and staying true to that and not getting carried 259 00:17:06,382 --> 00:17:08,622 Speaker 2: away with anybody else's version of events. 260 00:17:09,262 --> 00:17:11,942 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. Also shout out to Kiara and our editor, 261 00:17:12,022 --> 00:17:15,342 Speaker 1: who's so good at being like do we need this detail, 262 00:17:15,582 --> 00:17:21,502 Speaker 1: Like is this relevan this person? Uh huh uh huh. 263 00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:25,422 Speaker 1: That's so hard, especially when so many people had such compelling, 264 00:17:26,342 --> 00:17:29,222 Speaker 1: you know, narratives and stories. Yes, you know, because there 265 00:17:29,222 --> 00:17:31,942 Speaker 1: are real people too, and that totally makes sense. Yeah. 266 00:17:32,302 --> 00:17:35,422 Speaker 2: Everyone had their own idea of what happened, and I 267 00:17:35,502 --> 00:17:40,062 Speaker 2: tried my best to investigate everybody's idea of what had happened. 268 00:17:40,782 --> 00:17:43,302 Speaker 2: But some of you know, sometimes you just can't, like 269 00:17:43,462 --> 00:17:46,542 Speaker 2: the trail just stops and you can't follow it any further. 270 00:17:46,982 --> 00:17:49,502 Speaker 2: You know. At the beginning, when I first started talking 271 00:17:49,542 --> 00:17:54,222 Speaker 2: to Keith Harper, he told me that he had spoken 272 00:17:54,262 --> 00:17:58,342 Speaker 2: to a fireman who had seen Dea out hiking shortly 273 00:17:58,342 --> 00:18:01,982 Speaker 2: after she went missing, and that he thinks she had 274 00:18:02,022 --> 00:18:04,982 Speaker 2: met somebody from where she used to live in La 275 00:18:05,022 --> 00:18:07,942 Speaker 2: Joya in San Diego, and they had met her in 276 00:18:08,022 --> 00:18:12,582 Speaker 2: a van, and she had voluntarily gone off somewhere on 277 00:18:12,622 --> 00:18:17,342 Speaker 2: her own, and she was waiting somewhere for you know, 278 00:18:17,462 --> 00:18:18,902 Speaker 2: the coast to be clear, and then she was going 279 00:18:18,942 --> 00:18:20,862 Speaker 2: to call Harper and they were going to go off 280 00:18:20,902 --> 00:18:24,662 Speaker 2: and get married. And I really followed that trail to 281 00:18:24,782 --> 00:18:27,182 Speaker 2: try and find that fireman and to try and find 282 00:18:27,182 --> 00:18:29,342 Speaker 2: that van, and to track all these people down that 283 00:18:29,422 --> 00:18:35,502 Speaker 2: he had mentioned, because at the time I didn't know 284 00:18:35,702 --> 00:18:38,582 Speaker 2: that he was going to be a potential suspect, And 285 00:18:38,662 --> 00:18:40,982 Speaker 2: so I did spend quite a lot of time looking 286 00:18:41,022 --> 00:18:45,142 Speaker 2: into that, and for a for a bit of time 287 00:18:45,262 --> 00:18:48,262 Speaker 2: I thought that, yeah, she had gone off on her own. 288 00:18:49,822 --> 00:18:53,582 Speaker 1: Right, that was a genuine theory. Yeah, because for many people, 289 00:18:53,622 --> 00:18:55,982 Speaker 1: I think, at least really on who you spoke to 290 00:18:56,142 --> 00:18:58,702 Speaker 1: mentioned that too, right, like the possibility that she could 291 00:18:58,742 --> 00:19:02,102 Speaker 1: have left on her own or maybe run away or 292 00:19:02,142 --> 00:19:02,822 Speaker 1: something like that. 293 00:19:02,902 --> 00:19:04,822 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were all of these court proceedings going on 294 00:19:04,862 --> 00:19:07,782 Speaker 2: with her kids, and so many people said to me, 295 00:19:07,902 --> 00:19:11,102 Speaker 2: she was so over whelmed by that, and so it 296 00:19:11,222 --> 00:19:15,022 Speaker 2: was you know, it wasn't It wasn't an outlandish theory 297 00:19:15,022 --> 00:19:16,702 Speaker 2: at the time, But now I look back on it 298 00:19:16,742 --> 00:19:21,462 Speaker 2: and I think, yeah, no, she that she definitely didn't 299 00:19:21,502 --> 00:19:23,102 Speaker 2: just trot off on her own, accord. 300 00:19:23,462 --> 00:19:27,022 Speaker 1: M m M. So I feel like related to some 301 00:19:27,102 --> 00:19:29,342 Speaker 1: of what you're talking about in terms of like first 302 00:19:29,342 --> 00:19:32,302 Speaker 1: getting in touch with everybody, I think a lot of 303 00:19:32,382 --> 00:19:35,102 Speaker 1: listeners were really curious about, like how you got people 304 00:19:35,182 --> 00:19:39,582 Speaker 1: to speak with you, especially you know on Mike. What 305 00:19:39,662 --> 00:19:42,262 Speaker 1: was that process Like was that hard or difficult? 306 00:19:42,902 --> 00:19:49,702 Speaker 2: It was really hard, yeah, because you you are asking 307 00:19:49,782 --> 00:19:56,422 Speaker 2: people to publicly say what they think happened to somebody 308 00:19:56,422 --> 00:19:58,342 Speaker 2: and point the finger at someone else, And a lot 309 00:19:58,342 --> 00:20:01,302 Speaker 2: of people wouldn't talk to me because they were too scared. 310 00:20:02,022 --> 00:20:05,742 Speaker 2: And I never was able to speak to DEA's daughter, Chrissara, 311 00:20:06,502 --> 00:20:08,622 Speaker 2: and I tried very hard to speak to her. She 312 00:20:08,622 --> 00:20:12,022 Speaker 2: didn't respond to me, but she would never go on record. 313 00:20:12,342 --> 00:20:16,022 Speaker 2: There was also someone else mentioned in DEA's will, a 314 00:20:16,062 --> 00:20:18,382 Speaker 2: former personal trainer of hers, and he wouldn't speak to 315 00:20:18,382 --> 00:20:21,702 Speaker 2: me either. A lot of DEA's friends in Idlewa wouldn't 316 00:20:21,702 --> 00:20:26,542 Speaker 2: speak to me. So it took. Yeah, it took quite 317 00:20:26,542 --> 00:20:29,462 Speaker 2: a while to find people. And you know, you really 318 00:20:29,502 --> 00:20:36,422 Speaker 2: have to exercise all of your investigative skills and just track, 319 00:20:36,702 --> 00:20:39,342 Speaker 2: just be relentless and trying to track people down. 320 00:20:39,582 --> 00:20:41,622 Speaker 1: And you also, I think for a lot of people, 321 00:20:41,662 --> 00:20:44,102 Speaker 1: you had a lot of conversations before you did, like 322 00:20:44,142 --> 00:20:46,502 Speaker 1: a formal interview yea on the record, right. 323 00:20:46,622 --> 00:20:50,502 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of background chatting and explaining 324 00:20:50,542 --> 00:20:54,142 Speaker 2: who I was and what my intentions were, and the 325 00:20:54,182 --> 00:20:57,222 Speaker 2: fact that I just wanted to tell the story and 326 00:20:57,542 --> 00:21:01,822 Speaker 2: I wasn't really interested in taking sides. And I think 327 00:21:01,862 --> 00:21:07,102 Speaker 2: a lot of people responded to that, And you know 328 00:21:07,662 --> 00:21:11,782 Speaker 2: a lot of people wanted Dea to be found, and 329 00:21:11,822 --> 00:21:15,342 Speaker 2: so I wanted to help and thought that perhaps if 330 00:21:15,382 --> 00:21:18,822 Speaker 2: they appeared on the podcast, it might jog somebody's memory 331 00:21:18,822 --> 00:21:21,862 Speaker 2: about something, or it might encourage someone else to come out. 332 00:21:23,462 --> 00:21:25,182 Speaker 1: Out of the woodwork, and. 333 00:21:27,102 --> 00:21:33,022 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, there wasn't any kind of massive breakthrough that I'd hoped. 334 00:21:32,822 --> 00:21:34,862 Speaker 1: For, you know, so far. 335 00:21:35,302 --> 00:21:37,542 Speaker 2: Yeah, it hasn't happened yet. 336 00:21:38,102 --> 00:21:46,542 Speaker 1: Yeah yet. So another listener question was specifically I think 337 00:21:46,582 --> 00:21:51,102 Speaker 1: about Harper and why he focused so much on the 338 00:21:51,302 --> 00:21:56,542 Speaker 1: Psychics Lake theory and not the Arizona theory. And I guess, 339 00:21:56,622 --> 00:22:00,342 Speaker 1: just to recap, you know, the psychics that worked with 340 00:22:00,542 --> 00:22:05,102 Speaker 1: Kelly Snyder had pinpointed a few possible coordinates that they 341 00:22:05,142 --> 00:22:09,742 Speaker 1: thought that DIA's body maybe a few of them, or 342 00:22:09,942 --> 00:22:13,902 Speaker 1: in this lake in Idlewild near Idlewild that they ended 343 00:22:13,942 --> 00:22:18,942 Speaker 1: up searching. But there was also this coordinate in Arizona 344 00:22:19,102 --> 00:22:22,502 Speaker 1: that we also touched on in our series. Yeah, I mean, 345 00:22:22,542 --> 00:22:25,822 Speaker 1: do you have a sense of why Harper focused so 346 00:22:25,902 --> 00:22:27,062 Speaker 1: much on one another other? 347 00:22:27,982 --> 00:22:31,342 Speaker 2: I honestly don't know if he even remembered so it 348 00:22:31,382 --> 00:22:34,702 Speaker 2: was an Arizona coordinate. It's so hard to know. With him. 349 00:22:35,022 --> 00:22:39,462 Speaker 2: Sometimes I felt like he was genuinely confused. Other times 350 00:22:39,502 --> 00:22:43,582 Speaker 2: I felt like he was trying to shape a very 351 00:22:43,582 --> 00:22:48,262 Speaker 2: specific narrative, and then we just lose track of what 352 00:22:48,342 --> 00:22:56,342 Speaker 2: he told me. So I never really quite got down 353 00:22:56,942 --> 00:23:00,622 Speaker 2: to what the truth was with him. Or at least 354 00:23:00,862 --> 00:23:06,382 Speaker 2: what he believed the truth was. And that was frustrating 355 00:23:06,422 --> 00:23:08,902 Speaker 2: for me because I would never be able to get 356 00:23:08,902 --> 00:23:13,302 Speaker 2: at answer, and so I could just never put him 357 00:23:13,342 --> 00:23:13,782 Speaker 2: down on that. 358 00:23:14,382 --> 00:23:18,982 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the Arizona coordinate we mentioned sort 359 00:23:18,982 --> 00:23:22,222 Speaker 1: of talking to Kelly a little bit more about and 360 00:23:22,742 --> 00:23:26,702 Speaker 1: you know, about why he hadn't searched shit. Did you 361 00:23:26,782 --> 00:23:29,222 Speaker 1: hear anything else from him about that? 362 00:23:30,102 --> 00:23:32,502 Speaker 2: I kept pushing him on that. I kept saying, please 363 00:23:32,862 --> 00:23:35,182 Speaker 2: please go and search it, Please let me come with you, 364 00:23:35,222 --> 00:23:38,422 Speaker 2: and he won't. He won't search it until he's got 365 00:23:38,422 --> 00:23:41,462 Speaker 2: written permission from the police, which, like I said earlier, 366 00:23:41,622 --> 00:23:44,022 Speaker 2: thinks very unlikely to happen. Right. 367 00:23:45,302 --> 00:23:49,422 Speaker 1: So, one of the last listener questions that we got 368 00:23:49,542 --> 00:23:54,262 Speaker 1: was about DIA's dog Ruby. What updates did you get 369 00:23:54,302 --> 00:23:55,062 Speaker 1: about her? 370 00:23:56,262 --> 00:24:03,462 Speaker 2: So unfortunately she passed away under Harper's care. I did 371 00:24:03,622 --> 00:24:09,342 Speaker 2: get some correspondence from Clinton a few years ago go 372 00:24:09,782 --> 00:24:13,422 Speaker 2: about DEA's horses and the fact that Harper wasn't looking 373 00:24:13,422 --> 00:24:16,262 Speaker 2: after them properly, and he sent me some quite upsetting 374 00:24:16,262 --> 00:24:21,982 Speaker 2: photos about their hoofs being horribly overgrown. So it was 375 00:24:22,062 --> 00:24:25,942 Speaker 2: really it seemed really tragic because Dea was such an 376 00:24:25,942 --> 00:24:30,302 Speaker 2: animal lover, and for that to happen just felt like 377 00:24:30,342 --> 00:24:32,782 Speaker 2: an added insult to everything else that had happened. 378 00:24:35,262 --> 00:24:38,982 Speaker 1: So, in general, have there been any updates from Riverside 379 00:24:38,982 --> 00:24:43,142 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department or Detective Lrero on the case? 380 00:24:43,382 --> 00:24:47,062 Speaker 2: Oh? No, it's been really Again. Another thing that's been 381 00:24:47,102 --> 00:24:51,022 Speaker 2: really frustrating is that there's just been nothing. I've been asking. 382 00:24:51,702 --> 00:24:53,542 Speaker 2: The only thing that they tell me is that the 383 00:24:53,582 --> 00:24:57,062 Speaker 2: case is still active and they're still investigating. I have 384 00:24:57,302 --> 00:25:00,902 Speaker 2: been told by somebody I considered to be a reliable 385 00:25:00,982 --> 00:25:03,702 Speaker 2: source that they're going to search the ranch again, but 386 00:25:03,982 --> 00:25:07,462 Speaker 2: I don't quite know when that's going to happen, considering 387 00:25:07,502 --> 00:25:08,822 Speaker 2: that it's up. 388 00:25:08,742 --> 00:25:13,942 Speaker 1: For saf So I think we should just talk about 389 00:25:14,182 --> 00:25:17,142 Speaker 1: maybe like your last thoughts and feelings, like how are 390 00:25:17,222 --> 00:25:20,182 Speaker 1: you feeling now that the deadline has passed, now that 391 00:25:20,222 --> 00:25:21,902 Speaker 1: the series is out? About everything? 392 00:25:23,302 --> 00:25:28,622 Speaker 2: It was this weird sense of anti climax. It was 393 00:25:29,222 --> 00:25:34,022 Speaker 2: like everybody was working towards this deadline of when she 394 00:25:34,182 --> 00:25:37,342 Speaker 2: was going to be declared dead and her assets divided, 395 00:25:37,662 --> 00:25:43,302 Speaker 2: and then it came and went, and I felt sad 396 00:25:43,422 --> 00:25:48,742 Speaker 2: that this date had passed and she still hadn't been found, 397 00:25:49,102 --> 00:25:54,622 Speaker 2: and nobody knows what happened to her, And yeah, it 398 00:25:54,702 --> 00:25:58,662 Speaker 2: was just sad, I think, because you realize how many 399 00:25:58,662 --> 00:26:03,422 Speaker 2: other people go missing and that's it. Nobody ever really knows. 400 00:26:03,462 --> 00:26:07,382 Speaker 2: And then you think about the people left behind and 401 00:26:07,422 --> 00:26:15,142 Speaker 2: how they reckon style that never knowing. And I'm still, 402 00:26:15,902 --> 00:26:21,342 Speaker 2: you know, I'm still hopeful at some level that either 403 00:26:21,382 --> 00:26:24,582 Speaker 2: she'll be found or we'll find out what happened to her. 404 00:26:25,542 --> 00:26:29,062 Speaker 2: And maybe it did jog somebody's memory listening to it 405 00:26:29,102 --> 00:26:31,662 Speaker 2: and they went straight to the police, and you know, 406 00:26:31,742 --> 00:26:36,702 Speaker 2: you never know. And I think that, especially when it 407 00:26:36,782 --> 00:26:40,822 Speaker 2: comes to missing women, and I know that there are 408 00:26:40,822 --> 00:26:45,022 Speaker 2: a lot of missing women cases, especially that it's really 409 00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:48,942 Speaker 2: important to tell these stories because they obviously don't have 410 00:26:48,982 --> 00:26:56,382 Speaker 2: a voice when they go missing, and hopefully stories and 411 00:26:56,942 --> 00:27:00,342 Speaker 2: podcasts like these give them a voice in some sense, 412 00:27:00,622 --> 00:27:06,502 Speaker 2: even if we don't directly hear from them. 413 00:27:06,542 --> 00:27:09,422 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Lucy, and think thank you 414 00:27:09,462 --> 00:27:12,942 Speaker 1: to everybody who wrote in with a question or joined 415 00:27:13,022 --> 00:27:16,422 Speaker 1: Lucy's asked me anything on Reddit, or even to everyone 416 00:27:16,422 --> 00:27:18,942 Speaker 1: who just listened to the series. We really appreciate it. 417 00:27:19,222 --> 00:27:46,022 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Where's Dear is written and hosted by 418 00:27:46,102 --> 00:27:51,662 Speaker 2: me Lucy Sheriff, Our producer is Daphne Chen, editing by 419 00:27:51,782 --> 00:27:58,302 Speaker 2: Karen Shakerji, fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Our executive producer 420 00:27:58,542 --> 00:28:04,422 Speaker 2: is Jacob Smith. Original score by Echo Shaw's mastering by 421 00:28:04,542 --> 00:28:10,422 Speaker 2: Sarah Bruger. Where's Dear is a co production Pushkin Industries 422 00:28:10,462 --> 00:28:25,862 Speaker 2: and iHeartMedia and was originally developed with Truly Adventurous. You 423 00:28:25,902 --> 00:28:28,902 Speaker 2: can listen to all of Where's Dea right now ad 424 00:28:28,942 --> 00:28:34,182 Speaker 2: free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin Plus 425 00:28:34,302 --> 00:28:37,262 Speaker 2: on the Apple show page for Where's Dea or at 426 00:28:37,262 --> 00:28:41,942 Speaker 2: pushkin dot fm slash plus