1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello Whipsmarties. 2 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Today we are joined by an old friend and a 3 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: big inspiration to me. Today's guest is Jamie Linn Sigler. 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: You know her most likely from her iconic role playing 5 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: meto soprano on the HBO series The Sopranos. 6 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: She has done. 7 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: Incredible work in film, television, theater, I mean hello headlining 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: a tour at MSG. She is just an unbelievable performer 9 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: and also an incredible author. In two thousand and two, 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: she wrote an autobiography called Wise Girl, What I've Learned 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: about Life, Love and Loss That is so beautiful. And 12 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: this year she started a podcast with Christina Applegate, another 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: incredible acting ic, on who shares something really personal with 14 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: Jamie Lynn. Both of them were diagnosed with MS and 15 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: they've started a podcast called Messi based on their friendship 16 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: and the lessons they've learned throughout their diagnosis and their 17 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: journey with the condition. Jamie Lynn is so vulnerable and 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: inspiring to me and I know to so many of you. 19 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: And while she juggles all of these incredible projects, she 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: also happens to be a mother of two amazing young 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: sons with her husband Cutter. They are truly some of 22 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: my favorite people to hang out with, people that if 23 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: you ever are fortunate enough to be with at a wedding, 24 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: you definitely want to hit the dance floor with. And 25 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: not only is she so incredibly fun, but she is 26 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: so incredibly inspiring. I've probably said that too many times 27 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: in this intro, but it's true. I can't wait for 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: you all to hear this conversation. It really left me 29 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: feeling so and really reminded me about what's possible enjoy. 30 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I felt myself actually wanting to dive 31 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: into questions immediately because I was like, I'm just going 32 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: to start like blabbing at you and asking you everything anyway, 33 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: So I'm glad I pushed record. 34 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 3: Fast Grace, So God. 35 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: I feel like we have so much to catch up on, 36 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: and there's also just so much that's exciting in your world. 37 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: I'm thrilled about the new project. I have a bajillion 38 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: things I want to ask you about. But before we 39 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: get into what's going on now, I actually really like 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: to rewind with people and go way back, because so 41 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: many people know you as an actor and an advocate 42 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: and all of these amazing. 43 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: Things that you are. 44 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: You know, you let us in on your life and 45 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: your family and like all the exciting things you guys do. 46 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: But I always like to figure out who guests were 47 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: before we knew you, and we've known you for a 48 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: long time. So if you sit at this vantage point 49 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: today and you look back like you, you know you 50 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: TiVo rewind back to life when you were eight or nine. Yeah, 51 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: do you see yourself in Jamie as a little girl 52 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: or were you like a completely different kid? 53 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: So crazy you're asking me this question right now because 54 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: I in because of where I'm at in my life 55 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: right now, and especially in this stage of my life 56 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: where I'm finally realizing that I don't need to hold 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: anything back and I don't need to hide. I wrote 58 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: this letter to my younger self recently, and it's kind 59 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: of like the beginnings maybe of a book. And I 60 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 3: am still so much that girl. She's still in me 61 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 3: that she is very insecure, she's very scared of the world. 62 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 3: She doesn't know who to trust. She wants to be 63 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: perfect because she feels she won't be loved yet, she 64 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: maybe wishes something was wrong, because if something's wrong, people 65 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 3: will love her. And I know that girl so well, 66 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 3: but I want to tell her that while life doesn't 67 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: go exactly how she planned or wanted, it's so much better. 68 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: It's so much harder, but because of that, it's so beautiful. 69 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: And you know, I recently had Edie Falco on our 70 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: podcast and she had said to me, you know, because 71 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 3: sometimes I'd said, like God, I wish I could just 72 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: go back to that little girl or that moment in 73 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: time and redo it and be who I am now. 74 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: And she said, but who's to say you would be 75 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: who you are now if you weren't that person then, 76 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 3: So little Jamie on the outside had it all, but 77 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 3: on the inside was just very afraid all the time. Yeah, 78 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: and not because of you know, my circumstances. You know, 79 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: I was raised by two wonderful people. My parents are 80 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 3: still alive and I'm still very close with them. But 81 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 3: you know, my mom grew up in Cuba and came 82 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 3: over as an immigrant in Project Peter Pan during the 83 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 3: revolution and had a very very traumatic childhood. And then 84 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 3: my grandmother came over a year later. And because of 85 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: that and their intimate relationship, what helped them survive was 86 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 3: it was them against the world and nobody else. We 87 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 3: couldn't trust anybody else, and so that was she I 88 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: thought she was protecting me. But that's kind of the 89 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 3: world that she thought I was going to be going 90 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 3: into as well. And so it took a lot of unlearning, 91 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 3: like a lifetime, you know, forty years of unlearning of that. Yeah, 92 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: But even though she had that, I was also bolstered 93 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: by this like beautiful community of community theater on Long Island, 94 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: which became my home away from home, and I loved 95 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: it so much, and it was it felt you know, 96 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: I think when you're a creative person and you get 97 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: an opportunity to like live in your creativity, especially at 98 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: a young age, it just feels so effortless and feels 99 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 3: like you're calling and feels like what you're meant to do, 100 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 3: and you really can't explain why. And I'm really lucky 101 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 3: that I was able to have that as a little girl, 102 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 3: because I don't know what would have happened if I didn't. 103 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, God, it's a big deal to have, you know, 104 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: a place of space and outlet and especially it's so 105 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: wild that well, thank you first of all, before I 106 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: say the craziness of the parallel. Thank you for being 107 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: as honest and transparent as you just were. 108 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I almost don't know any other way now, 109 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: or I don't want to. 110 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: I don't either, And it's funny. 111 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: I just recently had a very in depth conversation with 112 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: a friend of mine who's a journalist, and she was like, God, 113 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: I just thank you for being willing to be so honest. 114 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: And I think what I've realized is like, if we're 115 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: not being honest and we're not being vulnerable with each other, like, 116 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: what are we doing talking? What are we doing taking 117 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: up space? Because to your point, life is hard, and 118 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: no matter what it looks like on the outside for anyone, 119 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: people are struggling. And like the way you're talking about 120 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: your experiences as a little girl, like my my inner 121 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: child is like you too. You know, I grew up 122 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: with you know, my mom came from a family with 123 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: a lot of trauma and their immigration stories. My dad, 124 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, was an immigrant as well. And there's there 125 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: really is something I think to that and to that 126 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: identity and to the wanting to be the perfect picture 127 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: of the American dream. And I, from a very young age, 128 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: before I even started performing, learned that like I had 129 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: to be a perfect daughter and a perfect you know, neighbor, 130 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of fear and it took 131 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: me a really long time to start living instead of 132 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: trying to live up to expectation. 133 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: Wow. 134 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so when you talk about that, I'm just like, oh, 135 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm not by. 136 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: Myself, so yeah, and thank you. 137 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. And I think that's the beauty of 138 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: being born. I think sometimes we can fear that our 139 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: specific vulnerability will not connect with somebody else and make 140 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: you feel even more alone because then you share and 141 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: then you realize that nobody else feels what you. That's 142 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: never been the case. In fact, I find the more 143 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: specific specific I've ever gotten with my vulnerability, the more 144 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: connected I have and with other people, the more universal 145 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: it becomes, because like you said, we all have hard things. 146 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 3: That's part of the human experience. I really believe in 147 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 3: my heart that we're here to evolve and grow, and 148 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 3: whether in the end of the day that's true or not, 149 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 3: it's what gets me through my life. And I find 150 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 3: that there's different paths that get us to kind of 151 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 3: really the same places in life and the same challenges 152 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: and the same roadblocks, And it's what shapes us and 153 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: what makes us who we are, but it also makes 154 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 3: us connect with other human beings, because what's the point 155 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 3: of life if you're not doing that? 156 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: You know, exactly exactly, and it's like, what an interesting 157 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: thing when you layer? You know, the kind of connection 158 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: you're talking about cultivating in your life. 159 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: What is. 160 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: Really universal is specific, And ironically that's something I talk 161 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: about a lot with work, like I think really really 162 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: incredible film or television. You know, for some reason, the 163 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: show Fleabag is popping into my head like, yeah, that's 164 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: an incredibly specific character. Yes, but it felt universal to 165 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: so many people because of its specificity. You could go, well, 166 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't have her life, but I relate to the 167 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: way she feels. And it's I don't think it's any 168 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: accident that that phrase comes up while we're talking about vulnerability, 169 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: and you're also talking about your creative identity in theater, 170 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: in finding a voice, in finding a space where you 171 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: got to explore feelings and ironically didn't have to perform 172 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: as perfect, right, because the characters are never perfect, so 173 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: in a way they can be your outlet to learn. 174 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, it's so true. Low, I didn't even think 175 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 3: about that it really is an opportunity to play just 176 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: human beings and their flawed cells, and you see the 177 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 3: beauty and the lessons and the arcs and the growth. 178 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: And it's so crazy that we're constantly being fed these 179 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: stories right on TV and in movies and in theater, 180 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 3: and it's like we don't allow ourselves the room to 181 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 3: have that same growth as humans. 182 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're supposed to have it all figured out and 183 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: you have. The characters we relate to are the ones 184 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: that don't. 185 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh crazy. I've really felt recently that I have 186 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: never felt more powerful than when I say I don't know, 187 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 3: teach me, show me, Like I'm always willing to have 188 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 3: my mind changed or my mind influenced. I used to, 189 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 3: especially you know, in our business. I think when you 190 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 3: grow up as a kid and you you want to 191 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 3: you have to be a little adult, and you've got 192 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: extra responsibilities that kids don't have, and you you kind 193 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 3: of fake it till you make it, and you pretend 194 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 3: you've got it and you don't ask many questions, and 195 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 3: it kind of breeds you to never have an opportunity 196 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 3: to be like, oh I don't know, and I and 197 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 3: I felt so much pressure because of that, and now 198 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: I'll go into anything an audition room, a job, a 199 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 3: lunch and and not and and stand with the power 200 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: of I don't know it all and it just feels 201 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 3: safe in that. And it's just been so nice to 202 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: kind of, yeah, release that pressure off of myself. 203 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: That's really interesting because when you talk about, you know, 204 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: finding your love of performing in community theater as a kid, 205 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: and then I think about you, I mean not just 206 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: you booked a role, You booked the role of meto 207 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: soprano at sixteen. Was that both exciting and jarring? Was 208 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: that an environment where you felt like you had to 209 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: act like you knew everything because you were so young? 210 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: Right? 211 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: Was? I imagine it was amazing but probably a lot 212 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: of pressure. 213 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 3: Yes, but not any pressure that anyone there put on me. 214 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: They were so if I think back, like so loving 215 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 3: and so caring and so gentle with me and Robert 216 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 3: who played my brother on the show, especially in those 217 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: first couple of years. But me Jamie was like, you know, 218 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: put up this front that I had it all together 219 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 3: and now I'm cool because I thought that's what I 220 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 3: needed to do. But that whole experience just I this 221 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: is in one of those moments where I wish I 222 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: could go back, but I understand that it wouldn't have 223 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: been the same, but I just I really wish that 224 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 3: I let people in more during that because while it 225 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 3: was ten years of the most incredible I got paid 226 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: to go to the best acting school, right and I 227 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: just got to work with the greatest people and the 228 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 3: greatest material and have some of the most incredible, like 229 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 3: once in a lifetime experiences. Because of it, my personal 230 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 3: life was in shambles through those whole ten years. So 231 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: it's it ended up becoming like a really safe place 232 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: for me to land, similar to my community theater, where 233 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: no matter what was going on in my personal life, 234 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: whether I was married and changed my name and now 235 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: I'm divorced, I'm back to Sigler and I'm this and 236 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 3: I'm this size and now I'm this size, and they 237 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: just welcomed me no matter what. And that's so beautiful 238 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 3: what it is and it was, and I'm it's I'm 239 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 3: like just now starting to grasp the professional aspect of 240 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 3: like what I was a part of and really understanding 241 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 3: it because for so long it was just about the 242 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 3: personal experience and the family that I was able to 243 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: have there and the support that I had that I 244 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: really needed during that time in my life. 245 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make this 246 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: show possible. 247 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,359 Speaker 2: Do you feel like because. 248 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: To your point, you know, nobody ever knows what's going 249 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: on in your life. They only see, you know, the 250 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: perfectly edited episode with the soundtrack and the quick cuts 251 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: and things. Did Was it jarring to be on such 252 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: a popular show when you were struggling at home? Or 253 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: was it? Was it like a great escape for you, 254 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: like to be on something so big and it hit 255 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: the zeitgeist in such an incredible way. I mean it 256 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: feels like you had lightning in a bottle. 257 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? 258 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: Was it? I love that it felt safe for you 259 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: to go to work. Yeah, But do you think it 260 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: made you feel like you had to perform a little 261 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: more in your life? Or no? 262 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 3: Well, I already was because I was hiding a pretty 263 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: significant diagnosis of MS. So I think what it really 264 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: hit me the hardest when the show ended because I 265 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 3: was already in the groove of Meadow. I knew her, 266 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: I got her, she was second nature. I mean it's 267 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 3: ten years, you know. I mean she was literally in 268 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: my body, in my soul, in my breath like it 269 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: was easy to slip into her. But in my personal life, 270 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 3: I was starting to pretend all the time I was 271 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: covering up, I was being somebody that I wasn't. I 272 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 3: was lying, I was hiding. And so when the show 273 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: was over and I started auditioning again and putting myself 274 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 3: out there, I couldn't be real. I wasn't doing good 275 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 3: work because I had no idea how to be authentic 276 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: in my own life. So how the hell am I 277 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 3: going to be authentic in my work? And so it 278 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 3: was like it was another ten years of a real struggle. 279 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 3: I got to do and be part of wonderful projects, 280 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 3: and every once in a while I could get in 281 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 3: a flow, but like it was very difficult for me 282 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: because and not because it was, oh, I'm I'm doing 283 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: projects that are not, you know, regarded like sopranos. I 284 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 3: mean that, like you said, was lightning in a bottle, 285 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 3: and I'm never gonna like try to achieve that again. 286 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 3: But it just felt like maybe I don't know how 287 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 3: to do this. Maybe it was just like a fluke 288 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 3: that I got that because I was just so all 289 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 3: over the place in my personal life that I and 290 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 3: I was no longer a kid, and I didn't have 291 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: the extra care and people weren't true that, like they 292 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 3: were ready for me to be a grown up as 293 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 3: they should have and show up and do my stuff, 294 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 3: and I just I was lost. I was completely lost. 295 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 3: And that was a really really hard transition for me. 296 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think. 297 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: I think that's something we don't get to talk about 298 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, the the incredible gift of playing 299 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: someone for ten years. When you talk about how it 300 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: felt to play metal, that's how it felt for me 301 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: to play Brook Davis. It was like she's a part 302 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: of me. It feels like I have a sister that 303 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: I don't actually have, you know. 304 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, And. 305 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: It's so jarring to try to get someone out of 306 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: your body so you can make room for someone else. 307 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 1: And if you have stuff going on where you feel 308 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: like you have to be the professional everyone expects, the 309 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: performing can actually take you out of authentically performing on 310 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: camera and it's like a weird self exploration that you 311 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 1: have to do, and nobody teaches us to do it. 312 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: We just have to learn it by doing. It's just 313 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: so strange and surreal. So hold on because when we 314 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: think about the ten years you did the show you 315 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: started at sixteen. Do I have it right that you 316 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: got diagnosed at twenty? 317 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 3: Yep? 318 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so halfway through the show, essentially you get this diagnosis. 319 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: Did you tell anyone there or were you like I 320 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 1: can't tell a soul and you just had like a 321 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: family member or a doctor. How did you juggle this? 322 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 3: So my parents and my fiance at the time were 323 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 3: in the when I found out the news. So I 324 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 3: had been diagnosed with lymes disease at nineteen. It's still 325 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: sort of this question whether it was a misdiagnosis or 326 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: could that have woken up a dormant MSG And we'll 327 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: never know. I'm I'm done trying to figure that out. 328 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 3: I'm just moving forward. So I had had this kind 329 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 3: of flare of similar symptoms that I had had the 330 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: year prior. So I had gone to the hospital just 331 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 3: for some testing, not expecting anything. So my parents, like 332 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 3: I said, were with me and my fiance and I 333 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: was told this news. And I think it was like 334 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 3: either the next day or a few days later. I 335 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: had had my cast physical. Before you know, you start 336 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 3: each job, you kind of go to this doctor and they, 337 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 3: you know, give a general physical and they're like, all right, 338 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 3: you're well enough to work great. And I had gone 339 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: to him because I didn't know what to do, and 340 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: I said, I I think I just got diagnosed with MS. 341 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 3: And he's like, uh, yeah, I don't think I think you 342 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 3: should tell anybody about that. And I'm not going to 343 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 3: put this down. You know, I think that you know, 344 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 3: nobody was talking about it back then. I didn't know anybody. 345 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 3: I had never really even heard of the disease, and 346 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 3: nobody in our industry, especially, you know, was was working 347 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: or talking about anything like that. This is a really 348 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 3: long time ago. So I just followed that advice because 349 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 3: I also wasn't that symptomatic at the time, so it 350 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 3: wasn't it just wasn't something that I thought about or 351 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 3: that I had to think about all the time. And 352 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 3: so no, I told no one. I told absolutely no 353 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: one the very last season I started having So I 354 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: should back up a little. I went through divorced, I 355 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 3: got married and went through divorce, and what was really hard, 356 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 3: I wasn't even telling anybody about that. One day, literally 357 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 3: in the makeup trailer, I think the makeup girl was like, 358 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 3: we haven't seen you know AJ around. How's he doing 359 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 3: and I just started bawling because I just couldn't hold 360 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: it in. And I remember them all coming around me, 361 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: and I remember in that moment, I was sitting in 362 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: my hair and makeup chair and I had the hair 363 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 3: and makeup team around me, and I don't remember who 364 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 3: else was in the trailer, maybe Eadie because it was 365 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 3: always her night, early in the morning. And everyone was 366 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 3: just wrapping their arms around me. And I remember thinking, 367 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 3: you can tell them, you can tell them, you can 368 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 3: tell them, and I just I just couldn't do it. 369 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 3: I just was so scared. I'd already told them one secret, 370 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 3: I couldn't share two. 371 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 372 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: And so the stress of the divorce really took its 373 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: toll on me, as it would on anybody. And I'm 374 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 3: twenty four years old, and I started having these symptoms 375 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 3: like hold, I couldn't hold my bladder, having to feel 376 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 3: like you have to like rush to the bathroom. So 377 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, we would be doing a take 378 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: and I'd be like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I gotta 379 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: go pee, and they would be like, what the f 380 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 3: what is going on with her? 381 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 2: You know? Yeah? 382 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 3: And Jim pulled me aside one day and he was like, 383 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 3: what's going on. I can see that something's happening, and 384 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 3: I felt like tears welling up in my eyes. And 385 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 3: he was just the most like loving, gentle presence. It's 386 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 3: just there's not enough words to describe him. 387 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: And I told. 388 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: Him and I said, I'm so fucking scared. I don't 389 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 3: know what to do. And he's like, so I remember, 390 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: I'm putting his like big paw on my shoulder and 391 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 3: he's like, whatever you need, I'm not going to tell anyone, 392 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 3: but whatever you need, you let me know. We never 393 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 3: talked about it again. I remember then about a month later, 394 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: we were doing one of our photo shoots and Edie 395 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 3: confided in me that she had been fighting breast cancer 396 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 3: at that time, and she showed me that she had 397 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: been wearing a wig, and I couldn't believe that I 398 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: didn't know, and I was looking at her and I 399 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: saw myself like, oh my god, you just shot this 400 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 3: whole season and were fighting cancer and I didn't know. 401 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 3: And so that was the moment that I told her. 402 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 3: And then I told Ayita Taturo, who played my aunt 403 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 3: on the show, one time when her and I went 404 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 3: to lunch, and remember I feeling a relief that just 405 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 3: some people knew at work, like some people knew I 406 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 3: didn't have to talk about it again. We didn't really 407 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 3: discuss it with each other. But it was just a 408 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 3: small bit of comfort that for those last two seasons 409 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 3: I had these three people that God forbid anything happened. 410 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 3: I knew somebody understood what was going on with me. Yeah, 411 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: and it's very poetic, but the very very last time 412 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 3: I was ever able to run physically was when I 413 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 3: shot my very last shot, which is the very last 414 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 3: time you ever see Metow when she's walking running across 415 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 3: the street, which is crazy, Like, my body just held 416 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 3: on just long enough for me to finish that job. 417 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 3: But yeah, I just I didn't know how it would 418 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 3: be received. I had also felt already like such a 419 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 3: burden on that show, like I had an eating disorder 420 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 3: in the beginning, I had lime. Then I got married, 421 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 3: and then I got divorce, and I was like, I 422 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 3: just felt like it was probably gonna be like, oh, 423 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 3: another thing with this girl, you know. I just I 424 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 3: couldn't help but feel that way. And so God then 425 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: telling them I had a mess, Like what would that mean? 426 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: They'd had had in my head? They would have had 427 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: to fire me and then, you know, floundering, Like I said, 428 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 3: once the show was over, the way I was, I mean, 429 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: there's no way that I could ever even then, on 430 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 3: top of that, tell people what I was dealing with, 431 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: you know, I just it just felt like the right decision. 432 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 3: I don't think it was, but it gave me sixteen 433 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 3: years to begin my journey of acceptance with it. It 434 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 3: gave me time to see what this disease would mean 435 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 3: for me and my body, which is hard. It manifests 436 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 3: differently for everyone, So it gave me the time I 437 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 3: think that I needed to figure out how to set 438 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 3: the boundaries that I needed and how to speak about it. 439 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 440 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's what you're speaking to right 441 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: now is so profound, and it is something a lot 442 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: of people don't have to deal with when you are 443 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: such a public person, whether it's a diagnosis, a divorce, 444 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, any stage in your personal evolution. Yeah, you 445 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: know what an example you can set. You know, you 446 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: can be a safe harbor for people by talking openly, 447 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: and you also have to learn to be a safe 448 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: harbor for yourself before you can do it for anybody else. 449 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: And so you know, there's like a there's a real 450 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: there's a both. 451 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 2: And in that. 452 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And some people, I'm sure, would say you should 453 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: never have to talk about it, and some people would. 454 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: Say you should have told everybody right away. 455 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: And it's like enough, the only voice that actually matters 456 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: here is yours. And you did it the best way 457 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: you knew how, and you did it while coping with 458 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: all of the pressure that people in our industry have 459 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: to cope with, but certainly that young women have to 460 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: cope with, which is, you know, men are allowed to 461 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 1: fail up, be imperfect, have addiction, get divorced, get other 462 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: people pregnant, do whatever crazy shit they do. But the 463 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: minute a woman does anything that's like less than perfect, 464 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: she's a pariah. 465 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: And so you know, it's like. 466 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: A particular brand of nonsense we go through. And yet 467 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: you've arrived in this place where you have survived all 468 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: these things, where you have thrived through these things, where 469 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: you have built this big, beautiful life life, and you 470 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: have chosen to share. Yeah, I'm really glad you shared 471 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: on your own terms. Thanks, And how how has that? 472 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: How was that shift? I mean it did it feel 473 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: like leaping and not being able to see the net below? You? 474 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: Or were the sixteen years kind of enough that you 475 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: felt ready to take that public step, like, yeah, what 476 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: is that? 477 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: Like? 478 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 3: You know, in hindsight, I think that those sixteen years 479 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 3: mainly were what the biggest takeaway for me was how 480 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: much I could trust other people because right when I 481 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: told you, like I was kind of raised to be 482 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: told that I couldn't, especially women. The group of women 483 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: that I had around me makes me so emotional to 484 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 3: think about that, like held this secret for me and 485 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 3: covered up for me and held me and pushed me 486 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 3: and sat with me and cried with me and made 487 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 3: me talk about the hard stuff because I always wanted 488 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: to be the strong, positive one and never talk about 489 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 3: it like. They are the ones that got me through 490 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 3: those sixteen years, no doubt, and so being able to 491 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 3: build that safety net of community around myself that I 492 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 3: had never felt in my life, that I so desperately 493 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 3: always wanted, I think is what gave me the strength 494 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 3: to ultimately say I have MS. I wasn't expecting like 495 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 3: the world to stop. I mean, like, you know, maybe 496 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: for somebody would glance for a minute, I'm like, oh wow, 497 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: But it was a big moment for me because I 498 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 3: didn't have to. I was starting to harbor feelings of 499 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 3: shame around it, and you know, when you hold a 500 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: secret for so long, you can't help but sort of 501 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 3: have these ugly feelings around it. And the catalyst, which 502 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 3: is super weird to get me to finally because my 503 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 3: friends at that point, and I had also told my 504 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 3: representatives because I was also at work. Now it had 505 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 3: physically manifested the point where you could see that something 506 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: was up with my walking, and I would I had 507 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 3: all these little angels around me sometimes, like I did 508 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 3: this pilot once and there was a stunt guy that 509 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 3: could see that I was having struggling and we were 510 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: in a group and we were supposed to go across 511 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 3: the street really fast, and he's like, hey, I'm just 512 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: going to grab your shirt and hold you while we 513 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 3: move so you can keep up with us. And I 514 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 3: was like, for sure that was a guardian angel because 515 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 3: I was freaking out inside. How I was going to 516 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 3: do this. I had to get this scan and it 517 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: looked like I had had a herniated disc, so I 518 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, this is great. I can 519 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 3: blame my walking on my herniated discs. How I can 520 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: get through this next job because you know, people start saying, 521 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 3: what's up, what's going wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong? Sorry 522 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 3: to lose track for a second. So I had this 523 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 3: friend who had seen thishypnotists. It was really helping her 524 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 3: lose weight. But he was like the hypnotist of the 525 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 3: stars and it'd help, you know. I think Oprah had 526 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 3: seen him and he helped Matt Damon quit smoking and 527 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: this and that. She's like, Jame, I don't know why, 528 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 3: but like, go see this guy. Maybe he could help 529 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 3: you with your feelings about yourself and this disease. And 530 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 3: I remember I was walking up the driveway to go 531 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 3: see him, and I was looking down as I was walking, 532 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: and he said to me, why why are you looking 533 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 3: down when you're walking towards me right now? And I 534 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 3: said because I'm embarrassed and I don't like to watch 535 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 3: people watch me walk. And he was like, okay, let's 536 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 3: go in. And I remember we talked for like two 537 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: minutes and then he put me under hypnosis. I don't 538 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 3: know what he said to me. I don't know what 539 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 3: would happen. But I came home that day and I 540 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: said to my my husband, I said, I think I'm 541 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 3: ready to talk about this, and he's like, what what, 542 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: Like they had been begging for so long, and I 543 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 3: was like, I think I'm ready. I feel safe with 544 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 3: the group of people that I have around me and 545 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 3: my life that if nothing ever comes my way again, 546 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 3: I am fine, I am blessed, I am great. I 547 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 3: have more than I could ever want from this life. 548 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 3: Like I'm going to take I'm going to take this 549 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 3: chance and see what happens. And it was a beautiful, scary, 550 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 3: wonderful moment when I did. It was you know, whenever 551 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 3: you share your vulnerability, I cannot imagine anybody that just 552 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 3: doesn't feel the love that can come back at them. 553 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 3: And I did tenfold and it was beautiful. And I 554 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 3: was very surprised too to hear like so many people 555 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 3: in all walks of life, in all different careers and 556 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 3: occupations were hiding it as well, like people reaching out 557 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 3: to me saying, yeah, I'm afraid to tell my boss 558 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 3: or I'm afraid to tell my friends, because you're so 559 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 3: afraid of people limiting you, judging you. And like I 560 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 3: had said, I really needed to also figure figure out 561 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 3: what this disease was in my body because I don't 562 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 3: want to go with like I don't know, Like I'm 563 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: twenty two years in, I know, I know, which gives 564 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: me the confidence to fulfill all the roles in my life. 565 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: Right. 566 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 3: But what the also that moment began was my it 567 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 3: It was actually it was as if I had just 568 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 3: gotten diagnosed that day, like I'm like, okay, now I'm 569 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 3: going to know what it's like to live with MS 570 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: and have people know. And there was a really long 571 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 3: adjustment period of me still not wanting to ask for help, 572 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 3: me still sort of moving through life the way I 573 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 3: had been for those sixteen years. It took some time. 574 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: Wow, that's really profound that it felt like a rediagnosis. Yeah, 575 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: or like a new thing. And now a word from 576 00:33:49,640 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: our sponsors. You coped in secret for almost twenty years, yeah, 577 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: and now you have all these years under your belt, which, 578 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: in a sense you're saying, felt like starting over where 579 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: people know. Do you find little shifts like do you 580 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: no longer feel shame about the days you're physically presenting? 581 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: Do you feel more comfortable asking for help? Like how 582 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: does the adjustment because as you say, you know what 583 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: this disease is in your particular body, how do you 584 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: think the adjustment has shifted your experience. 585 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: Now that you know everyone. 586 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 3: Knows, I still hate how I walk. I still I'm 587 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 3: working on that. I still get frustrated. I still get 588 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 3: sad and mad and feel bad. But I let people 589 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 3: help me and I talk about the hard stuff that 590 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 3: I never did before. You know, I had teamed up 591 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: with Novartis and created this like three step guide that 592 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 3: we have. It's at reframing ms dot com. Because what 593 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 3: I have found in these moments is that these like 594 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 3: three steps that I constantly come back to have really 595 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 3: been helpful for me. And the first step is reflect 596 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 3: And that means just like sitting with those really hard 597 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 3: feelings that we always want to push away, like the grief, 598 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 3: the grief for my old body, the grief for my 599 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 3: old abilities, the sadness, the depression, and then reflect like 600 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 3: reflect like Okay, this is this is part of my life. 601 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 3: But I there's still a lot of things I want 602 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 3: to do, Like there's still a lot of I'm a 603 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 3: mom and of two active little boys. I still want 604 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 3: to be very present in their lives. I have a 605 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 3: husband that I love and I want to go in 606 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 3: adventures with. And I still love to act, and I 607 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 3: still want to do that. So then the third step 608 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 3: is reframe, like how do I do those things? What 609 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 3: do I need to accomplish those things? Like at work, 610 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful the past couple of jobs that I've 611 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 3: had have really allowed me to just settle into the 612 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 3: creative and not worry about the physical because Sophia like 613 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 3: probably for twenty years, all I cared about was getting 614 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: through the day physically, and like the dialogue and the 615 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 3: actual creative was like so on the back burner. So 616 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 3: one of my last jobs like to say like, yeah, 617 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 3: you know, if you can park my trailer like a 618 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 3: little bit closer and just have a chair nearby in 619 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 3: between takes or scenes so I can kind of sit. 620 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 3: And then it just became this like well oiled machine, 621 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 3: and I realized I wasn't a burden, I wasn an extra, 622 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 3: I wasn't a problem, and I kept getting asked back 623 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 3: and then they made me a series regular, and then 624 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 3: I shot this other pilot, which unfortunately never went where. 625 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 3: After I got the role, people were like, you know what, 626 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 3: we're super inspired by you, Jamie. What if this character 627 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 3: gets diagnosed with MS in this show and we go 628 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 3: through this journey with her and I just like these 629 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 3: are things I never thought possible. But also because of 630 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 3: the way it's affected me, I am finally bringing out 631 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 3: a cane, which is like you saw me at Ryan's wedding. 632 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 3: That was like one of the first times that I 633 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 3: brought it out with me because normally I would always 634 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 3: hang on my husband or friends. And I'm like, you 635 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 3: know what I'm like, So I'm gonna give myself the 636 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: support that I need because when I wasn't it just 637 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 3: like I don't know you, like I was saying, I 638 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 3: felt shame, and I felt less valuable and I felt 639 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 3: like less of a person, and it took a lot 640 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 3: of Like the help that I'm saying is the talking, 641 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 3: the being vulnerable with my friends, of being like Jamie 642 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 3: like we don't see this at all. They've helped me 643 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 3: figure out how to go to concerts with them. They're like, 644 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 3: we will drop you off, we will go park. You know. 645 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 3: They they make they have forced me to still participate 646 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 3: in my life. And because of all these experiences, which 647 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 3: I think is a lot of the reason I'm gonna 648 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 3: believe is why this is part of my life. Because 649 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 3: of the position that I'm in and the experiences I've 650 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 3: had of being in secret and having to figure out 651 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 3: and be creative to share with other people now because 652 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 3: to know, especially since we've created our podcast Messy like 653 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 3: to connect with the MS community in particular, to be 654 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 3: able to share with these people what they're going through 655 00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 3: and for them to be feel seen. For so long, 656 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 3: just thought I was the only one in the world 657 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 3: that felt this way or was going through something like this, 658 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 3: And I'm so honored to be able to share my 659 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 3: experiences now because nobody should ever have to go through 660 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 3: that or feel that way. 661 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: That's the thing, right is whatever it is, and you 662 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: know you're bringing up such a universal experiences, whether it's 663 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: MS or any diagnosis, whether it's divorce, yeah, anything that 664 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: sort of undoes your plans. There is so much shame 665 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: when you stay stuck. And the minute you begin to 666 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,879 Speaker 1: cultivate community, you realize you're not alone. You realize that 667 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: this thing that you're going through is meant to teach 668 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: you something and might really be meant to make you 669 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: a more whole version of yourself. Like absolutely, isn't it 670 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: interesting that you rediscovered your creativity once you let everybody 671 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: in on your secret? And I think about that, like 672 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: the big life shift for me, you know, I'm the 673 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 1: divorce subject in the last year is like, oh, when 674 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: I was trying to act like everything was perfect, I 675 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,879 Speaker 1: literally lost myself. I felt like I became a paper doll, 676 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: Like I just I went flat. And then I started 677 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: to let people in and I realized how many other 678 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,320 Speaker 1: people I knew were going through it at the same time, 679 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: and suddenly I became like three dimensional again. Yeah, and 680 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: everything feels different, including my relationship to my work. That's great, 681 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: and it's so surreal, and like, I love hearing you 682 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: talk about it, you know, what you and Christina are doing, 683 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: and also the way you talk about what you and 684 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: your husband do with your boys, Like you're doing this 685 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: big thing in the public, and you're also doing this 686 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: big thing in your home. And I'm curious, you know, 687 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: as a person who doesn't have kids yet but has 688 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: always like desired to do that, I wonder, how like 689 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: when I would imagine, you know, like you said your 690 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 1: boys are rambunctious, Yeah, you guys are, you know, having 691 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: to run around after two of them and you've you've 692 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: got everything going on. And then you and Christina are 693 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: talking about your experiences with MS and you know, for 694 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: our friends at home. Messy the wonderful podcast that Jamielyn 695 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: started is with Christina Applegate, who we all you know 696 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: know and love and you know who just crushed it 697 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: at the Oscars this year. God, she made me laugh 698 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: so hard, just the best And did it Was there 699 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: any part of you that was nervous to undertake this 700 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: other vertical of work or did it just feel like 701 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: the next right thing? 702 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 3: You mean, Messy? 703 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 704 00:41:53,440 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 3: No, Messy has been the most fulfilling thing ever work wise. 705 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 3: Like this came from Christina and I having for over 706 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 3: a year really long phone conversations where we would laugh. 707 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 3: I mean, nobody makes me laugh harder than that woman. 708 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 3: We cry, and we were being vulnerable and honest in 709 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 3: ways that I had never been. Yeah, and she she 710 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 3: needed a light at the end of the tunnel a 711 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 3: little bit, which I think I was able to give her. 712 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 3: And I needed somebody to be like, you're gonna say 713 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 3: this is hard today. You're going to say that what 714 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 3: you just did was not easy. You know, You're gonna 715 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 3: say what your feeling is, it's unfair. Like she gave 716 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 3: me the permission to have to take the time to 717 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 3: have those feelings and so these conversations like we're so 718 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 3: wonderful and we were getting to know each other and 719 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 3: one day she said to me, Jane, I think we 720 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 3: need to put these out there. And I said, are 721 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 3: you sure? And She's like, yeah, this is this is 722 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 3: the time. I am done. I have played the role 723 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 3: of Christina Applegate for fifty years and I'm done playing 724 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 3: or I'm ready to be me. I'm ready to put 725 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 3: it all out there. And it's just so inspiring to 726 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 3: watch her just own everything she's feeling unapologetically, and you know, 727 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 3: it's for us to be able to reflect and and 728 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 3: commiserate and support each other. It's I think it's also 729 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 3: just a beautiful representation of female friendships and what they 730 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 3: can do for us. And also I think that you're 731 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 3: gonna you're on this journey of two women that and you, 732 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 3: like you said, we all can relate to this. Are 733 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 3: having to accept something that's hard, accepting a hand that 734 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 3: was doubt that you wish you didn't have, but you'd 735 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 3: do and there's nothing you can do about that. And 736 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 3: what we are doing with that with that acceptance, where 737 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 3: are we going now? What are we You know, you're 738 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 3: you're really catching us in two different stages, but also 739 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 3: in this pivotal moment where her and I both are like, 740 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 3: screw it, we're gonna we're gonna push through, and we're 741 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 3: gonna see what life has to offer. She calls us 742 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 3: to save the babies, like you know, and makes and 743 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 3: maybe cracks the best jokes about it. But it's just 744 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 3: it just feels like it was the most organic. It 745 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 3: came together so organically and in such a way that 746 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 3: you know, when you're like feel like you're just like 747 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 3: riding this wave and you have no control, but you 748 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 3: know it's right. It's just it's just one of those 749 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 3: moments where like, we have no expectations, We have no 750 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 3: like grandiose dreams of like how much money will make 751 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 3: or where it will go, or what we will do. 752 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 3: We are just putting ourselves and our hearts out there 753 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 3: and just trusting that it's it's what we're supposed to 754 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 3: be doing right now. 755 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 1: Well, what it sounds like you're describing is really being 756 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: in flow. Yeah, And it's so interesting to me to 757 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: hear you talk about it this way because you're also 758 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: talking about the fact that she really helped you write 759 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: your own permission Slip to have all of your feelings, 760 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: not just the perfect ones, yep, not just the nice 761 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: ones yep. And I think that is something and wherever 762 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: the culture comes from. And I'm sure it's worse for 763 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: women who do what we do for work because there 764 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: is a lot of performance to it, and God forbid 765 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,879 Speaker 1: you have a bad day or say something's hard, people 766 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: tell you you're ungrateful the horror, so you know, you 767 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 1: really kind of divest from your anger or your frustration, 768 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,920 Speaker 1: and to be able to reclaim that, I think is 769 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: actually really healing, especially for women. Yes, whether that's around 770 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: relationship or disability or. 771 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 2: Any of it. 772 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:01,399 Speaker 1: And I love that as you are reclaiming that other 773 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: side of yourself that maybe you used to think you 774 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,439 Speaker 1: had to hide or be ashamed of, you're also like, oh, 775 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: what's bringing me the most joy? Is like a full 776 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: three dimensional honesty. 777 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 2: My friend. 778 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 3: Yes, And it's and it kind of goes back to 779 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,280 Speaker 3: that letter that I was writing myself, where it's like you, 780 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 3: you know you always it's interesting that life gave you something, 781 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 3: especially in your body, that is it is the most 782 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 3: imperfect now and you love yourself the most that you 783 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 3: ever have in this imperfect body. And I truly do 784 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,040 Speaker 3: not know who I would be without MS, and I 785 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 3: don't want to know. As much as it breaks my 786 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,399 Speaker 3: heart to struggle physically the way that I do, I 787 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 3: just I know this was meant to be part of 788 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 3: my journey and I am. I'm grateful for it. I 789 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 3: really really am. And I'm and I'm. It is an 790 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,400 Speaker 3: honor to be able to have the platform that we 791 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 3: do to share because it is healing exactly what you said, 792 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 3: it is. Healing used to be so heavily focused for 793 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 3: me on the body, right, I would always see healers 794 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 3: and this and that I would I have, I have 795 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 3: tried it all. Yeah, and healing has nothing to do 796 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,400 Speaker 3: with my physical body anymore. To me. It's it's healing 797 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 3: my heart, myself, my soul, who I am, and understanding 798 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 3: that I am a perfectly imperfect human being exactly as 799 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 3: I should be. I am loved no matter what I'm 800 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 3: coming into a room with, and that is okay, And 801 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 3: it's it's liberating. It is liberating to feel like I'm 802 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 3: not judging myself all the time. You know, I'm giving 803 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 3: myself grace to be all the colors. 804 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, it's so, it's just so cool. 805 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 3: Oh, well, you know, it's what what we I wish 806 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 3: for you and anyone, and it's and it again, I 807 00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 3: think it's like, really, what we're trying to do with 808 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:05,480 Speaker 3: me is just really, you know, share our experiences so 809 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 3: you can hear yourself in our words, you know. 810 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: Totally and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. 811 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 2: So how do you, guys, how do you. 812 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: Sort of build the podcast because obviously you co host 813 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 1: it together. You're talking about your journeys which are incredibly 814 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 1: unique yet very universal. So how do you pick guests 815 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,600 Speaker 1: or conversation topics or like. 816 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,359 Speaker 3: How did the two of you do this? It's messy. 817 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 3: It's like there's no format. It's not very structured. When 818 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 3: it comes to our solo episodes, her and I will 819 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 3: text each other a lot during the week with our 820 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 3: producer Alison, Alison Bresnik, by the way, who says, hi, 821 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 3: one of my favorite he's the best, and we'll be like, 822 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 3: you know, for instance, we have an episode coming up 823 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 3: on Body Image and it is so good only because like, 824 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,360 Speaker 3: oh my god, I'm so proud of Christina and like 825 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 3: just where she led this episode. But it was like, 826 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 3: you know what, I felt insecure at the Emmys, and 827 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 3: I want to talk about it more like great And 828 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,840 Speaker 3: it was just an hour of two women just being 829 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 3: open about body image and body issues and how we 830 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,320 Speaker 3: fell in all the different ways and our past eating 831 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 3: disorders and things like that. You know. When we had 832 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 3: Edie Falco on, it was an opportunity for me to 833 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,440 Speaker 3: hear how she perceived me during that time and it 834 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 3: was just the most beautiful, healing, lovely conversation. We have 835 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,719 Speaker 3: Martin short on and it's sixteen minutes of him and 836 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 3: Christina laughing and reminiscing, and at the end of it, 837 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 3: I can look at Christina and go, you just had 838 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 3: an hour remembering who you are and MS does not 839 00:49:53,719 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 3: define you and you are still that funny, hilarious, loved actress. 840 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 3: It runs the gamut, you know. It's really kind of 841 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 3: all over the place and specific and not specific. It's 842 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,320 Speaker 3: just you're really listening in on an intimate conversation between 843 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,800 Speaker 3: her and I that has not a lot of planning 844 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 3: going into it. 845 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,359 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, I think that that's actually one 846 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: of the coolest things in this line of work. What 847 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: we get to do is really you just get to 848 00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 1: follow a thread and be curious about it. 849 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think I went to India 850 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 3: with Ryan, our friend Ryan last year to shoot this 851 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,959 Speaker 3: documentary and we lived at this ashrum, and the main 852 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 3: takeaway and the thing that just kept getting repeated from 853 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,040 Speaker 3: all the beautiful people that we met there is just 854 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:54,359 Speaker 3: stay curious. Just stay curious about everything about life, about circumstances, 855 00:50:54,480 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 3: about people, about yourself. It's really, it's really, it's really 856 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 3: the key to life. 857 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 858 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: So when you think about that, you know, all of 859 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: these lessons you've learned, and this twenty plus years of 860 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,240 Speaker 1: this layer of yourself being part of your experience, your family, 861 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,640 Speaker 1: your work, you know, all of it. When you look 862 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 1: out from this place that feels like you're in so 863 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: much flow and like you're in such a beautiful position, 864 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,560 Speaker 1: what when you think about, I don't know the rest 865 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,640 Speaker 1: of the year, say, what feels like you're work in progress? 866 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 2: Right now? 867 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 3: I am loosening my grip on life. I used to feel, 868 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 3: especially you know, in our career, in our industry, like 869 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 3: you feel like you want to control as much as 870 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,720 Speaker 3: you can because you have so much little control. Yeah, 871 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 3: and I'm just loosening my grip and I want to 872 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,440 Speaker 3: just kind of trust what's going to continue to come 873 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,319 Speaker 3: in and out, and when an opportunity rises, I will 874 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,319 Speaker 3: work hard like I always do, and I will show 875 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 3: up in the way that I need to. But just 876 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,000 Speaker 3: knowing that what is meant for me, what is meant 877 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 3: for me, and what's not is not And I have 878 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,080 Speaker 3: that community and that safety net around me, and I'm 879 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 3: just this season of life. It's the worst my body 880 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,319 Speaker 3: has ever been, but the best that I have ever been. 881 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,400 Speaker 3: And I feel it's crazy that I'm I'm also the 882 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,879 Speaker 3: happiest I've ever been in that moment. And it took 883 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,720 Speaker 3: a lot of work and a lot of like not work, 884 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? A lot of work 885 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,560 Speaker 3: and a lot of trust and a lot of letting go. 886 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 3: And I'm just really grateful for it all. 887 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 2: I'm so happy to hear that. Thanks. Thank you for 888 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 2: joining me today. 889 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,359 Speaker 3: Oh thank you for having me. It's so nice to 890 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:48,879 Speaker 3: talk to you.