WEBVTT - Kevin Godley 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.320 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bible Left Sex Podcast. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.760 I guess today this musician and director Kevin Gardley. Kevin, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.120 good to have you on the program. Good to be here, Bob, 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.080 Nice to see you. Happy New Year. So where exactly 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.240 are you right now? I am in a little town 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.879 about forty minutes outside Dublin, in a conservatory which is 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:37.040 my office and my studio. So what is a nice 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.479 boy from the middle end of England doing in Dublin. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.919 That's a good question. I I did quite a lot 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.560 of video work here in the late nineties. Earlier in 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.400 late nineties with you too, and I was going backwards 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.720 and forwards and backwards and forwards a lot with my wife, 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.360 and we fell in love with the place it is, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.800 at least back then. It was so radically different to 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.160 living outside London that we fell in love with it. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.520 Everything is quiet here, you can get to meet interesting 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.120 people in the art world much easier than you could 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:16.200 in London. Um, and we were looking to move house anyway, 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.080 and we thought, why not, let's give it a shot. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.080 So here we are and we haven't regretted it for 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.760 one second. And how long have you been there? And 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.679 you can go a little bit deeper into the differences. Gosh, 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.680 I think we've been here for about fourteen years. The difference, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.000 I guess is London is a very busy city, always 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.639 has been, and if you want to make a meeting 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.679 with somebody, you call up their pa and they say, well, 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.760 you know, someone star has a window for twenty minutes 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:49.000 next Thursday. Here you're bumping to someone who knows his 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.680 uncle and you can meet him in the pub next 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:57.120 Saturday night. It's it's much more. It's much less formal here. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.120 Everybody is so much more accessible here. And is there 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.960 work there like there is in London? There is For me, 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.240 it's no different. I mean that the main difference between 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.760 working here and in London has changed so vastly over 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.560 the years because a lot of what a lot of 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.639 what I can do is done remotely anyway. If there's 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.079 a shoot to be done in London, for instance, then 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.520 I travel to London and I have a production team 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.560 there that I use. Obviously I haven't been able to 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.680 do that for a little while, but I also have 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.560 a production team here, and if I'm lucky enough, the 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:32.640 artist will come here and we can shoot here. So 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.919 it's it's been really been really good. In other words, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.440 I have a lovely, gentle and quiet lifestyle, but I 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.840 can move to wherever is appropriate for when I have 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.800 to be somewhere. What's been keeping you busy recently, Kevin? Recently? 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.440 Oh gosh, you've been in the last two or three 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.919 years or so, Yes, because you know and how you've 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.880 been affected by COVID. Well, I haven't really been affected 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.919 by COVID, which is the strangest to say. I mean, 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.960 both myself and my wife haven't had COVID. We know 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.240 a few people who have, but we live a very 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.280 quiet life and I do most of my work from 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:15.079 home anyway. UM but probably one of the main things 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.440 that I did in twenty twenty, I released my first 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:24.280 solo album, which was recorded here, called Muscle Memory, which 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.239 was an exciting thing for me to do. I never 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:31.840 made a solo album before UM and that was that 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.600 was a big thrill. That was a big thrill. I 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:39.360 got extremely well reviewed, which was which was a buzz. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:45.640 I also co wrote and directed a pilot episode for 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:51.600 a historical drama podcast about Irish music. UM. I started 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.920 experimenting with a system I called corrupted files, which is 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.800 for want of a better term, accidental artwork that's derived 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:05.520 from my video work, and started exploring n f T 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:13.920 and physical options for both UM. Also in one I 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:21.000 joined a new games company called Athena Athena Worlds, which 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:28.480 is led by UM extremely well known gaming programmer called 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:33.880 Jane Whittaker who did Alien Versus Predator, and also a 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.359 senior producer from Candy Crush called Emily Amslet anyone in 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.159 the gaming industry will know who they are immusically, and 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:47.400 they're driven by UM new revolutionary tech which hopefully will 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.719 revolutionize the games industry. And I'm a non exact director 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.600 and creative consultant for a Sena. I've also recently joined 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.800 a fascinating company called Group of Few Moans, which is 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.360 very very contemporary company. They are a community of industry 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:13.520 leading strategists, filmmakers, musicians, designers, writers, creative directors, researchers, accession. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.960 We're like a herd of cattle, although we're not cattle. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.760 We're all very very clever and very smart. But the 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.680 idea is that any any group of these people can 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:31.040 be selected for any particular project that comes in UM 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:35.240 to create the perfect group to deliver high quality outcomes 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.560 from different for a range of different kind of clients. 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:42.600 We work remotely, and I've never been involved in anything 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:47.200 like this before I am. Towards the end of last year, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.240 I was I was frustrated in that there are so 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:55.279 many things that I do and I have a finger 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.919 in so many different creative pies. I was looking for 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.440 either a person or an organization to kind of represent 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:08.479 all the different aspects of my career. And this group 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.560 of people got in touch with me via a guy 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.000 who I've met before a number of years ago. Love 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.640 the guy called Rob Noble who invited me to become 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.359 part of group of humans. And it is. It is 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.040 a great It's a great bunch of people, a great 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.200 bunch of people. I can't tell you what we're doing 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.400 because we're all under N D A S. But it's 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.000 it's a real buzz. It's it allows me to explore 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.240 the more commercial side of what I'm capable of doing. Okay, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.440 before we leave Dublin, I have to address the situation 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.599 with Ironland, which is divided in Brexit. What's your whole 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.320 take on Brexit and how it should work out? Fucking nightmare. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.800 I never understood the point of it. Ever. I mean, 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.160 I don't know, it's crazy. I'm not a very politically 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.200 minded person, but I kind of don't see the wind 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.120 of it. It's it's divisive on a very day to 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:09.720 day level. If you order anything online. Um, we used 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.400 to be able to get loads of stuff that we 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:16.440 can no longer get now from from the UK. Um, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.600 and you have to pay extra tax when it comes 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.200 into the country. It takes twice as long. I mean, 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:26.200 that's the immediate effect of it, and it's just boring. 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.559 I don't get it. Okay, let's go back a few years. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.920 How did you ultimately get into video directing? Sort of 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:43.360 by accident, like most things in my life. Um, as 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.000 you know, we were we were in a band, quite 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.480 successful band, and when lor Creom and I left the band, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.960 we were still making records, but we weren't a touring band, 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.720 so we never appeared anywhere live. We never did any shows. 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.760 But we had a record coming out on a single 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.080 that was called an Englishman in New York, not to 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.960 be confused with the song of the same name by Sting, 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.760 and we kind of figured that the only way we 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.680 could promote it would be to make a little film 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.480 of us performing it in some way. And we didn't 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.680 think for one minute that the record company would go 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.800 for the idea, because back then there was no video 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.880 industry as such, there was no MTV. But we came 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.360 up with a sort of cock eyed storyboard and went 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.760 to meet somebody at the label and lo and behold. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.600 I said, yes, you can make it, but you can't 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.280 direct it because you you don't know a camera from 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.080 a camel. So we'll have to get a proper guy 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:46.960 into do that, which which they did, and joined the 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.320 process of making the film. A couple of lightbulbs went 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:57.120 off over our heads. It was an extraordinary experience. We 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:02.800 were ex art students, as you probably, and suddenly we 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:07.240 were involved in something that we instinctively felt we could 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.040 contribute to. We could do this, we thought, and much 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:15.800 to the director's annoyance, through the editing process, we started 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.800 to stick our oar in and suggest things and and 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.960 and say, well, what happens if you press this button 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:24.880 and you go no, no, And we pressed a button 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.400 and something interesting would happen that nobody expected. In other words, 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:34.040 we kind of took over, which must have been a 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.840 pain for the director. For the proper director, but we 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:43.760 knew that this was a very exciting thing to be 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.160 involved with. So we put we were performing, which took 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.400 up most of the day, and we were listening and 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.560 we were watching and we were learning, and that was 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.360 the first thing we kind of did um and we 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.360 got a lot of credit for it because the finished 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.400 result made the hit, made the record a hit, not 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.600 in the UK, but all over Europe. Would you remember 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.760 the budget and you remember where it was exhibited and 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.000 people became aware of it. It was shown a lot 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.520 in Europe, all over Europe and it was a hit 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.800 record in Europe. I can't remember the budget, but it 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:20.520 can't have been a lot of money. There wasn't a 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.760 lot of money around in those days for these things. 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.840 So what I actually happened from there is a guy 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.960 called Steve Strange who was just signed to our label 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:37.040 Polydor with his band called Visage. Is the same Steve 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.920 Strange who recently passed Yes unfortunately, Yes. We used to 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:47.120 from the clubs in London and he wanted us to 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:52.040 direct his first video for his first single for Visage, 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.920 which was called Fay to Grow and which is a 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.600 lovely compliment. I think you have to argue the point 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.360 somewhat with the low but we got to do it. 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.160 The budget for that I distinctly remember as being five 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.520 thousand pounds two and a half thousand, of which went 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.719 to the makeup artist. But that was our first professional 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:19.199 gigs as as video directors. And the rest is this history. Okay, Well, 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.880 as I say, you're let's go a little slower into 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.240 the rest. So you make that video. You did one 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.240 for your own act. It was very successful. What happened 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:32.960 with this video, Well, it did the trick um. It 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.520 proved the point that a good film or a good 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.040 video or whatever they used to call it in those days, 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:45.160 could make a difference. And it was a hit in Norway, Sweden, 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.280 Denmark and Scandinavia and France, in Germany, but didn't do 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.600 a damn thing in England, which was such a shame. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:57.920 But it taught us a hell of a lot. It's 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.560 it flipped the switch for us because we'd left the 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.599 band and we were making records and I think subconsciously 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.600 we were looking for something else that we could get 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.440 our teeth into and this came along. It's just the 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.240 right time. Now we're in the history of MTV. Does 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.559 this happen quite early We're talking the early eighties. Um, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.560 And I think we made an Englishman in New York 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:35.439 before MTV became a reality anywhere. Um. I think MTV launched. 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:43.160 Was it in nineteen August? First one? Okay, so we 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.719 were relatively close. We were relatively close, I thinking Englishmen 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.679 in New York those towards the end of the seventies. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:55.160 But visage. I guess what I'm asking here is, did 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.040 you see MTV on the horizon when it happened? Did 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.439 it change your vision? Did it queed a lot of opportunity? Totally? 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.480 We didn't see it coming, and then we heard about it. 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.040 We heard about it launching in America first, which it did, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.719 of course, and we started to get some interesting commissions 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:21.760 um from America. Probably the most significant one was for 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:28.280 Herbie Hancock Rocket UM. And things began to change radically 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.439 from that point, not just for us, but for the 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:38.440 whole music industry. From our perspective and from all the 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.360 other directors and producers that were working in this new medium, 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.920 it suddenly meant that there was a global art gallery 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.439 where all their work could be seen. There had been 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:55.680 nothing like this before ever. So the other thing that 0:13:56.000 --> 0:14:00.400 I think was hugely influential. Was that a lot of 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:07.160 the more christially acclaimed and influential films on MTV We're 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.040 coming out of the UK and the stylistic elements of 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.960 those films made an impact on everything that was made 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.800 from that point on. And a lot of a lot 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.480 of bands, a lot of American bands particularly, were a 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:28.160 little bit uncomfortable with this. They were purists, they were musicians. Man, 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.360 we don't want to make films, We don't want to 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.520 tell stories, we just want to play. There was there 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.920 was a little bit of resistance to that initially, uh, 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.840 but things gradually began to change. They began to accept 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.560 it and take it on board and really use it well. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.080 It took a little time though for it to sink in. 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.520 Let's talk about Rocket, So how did you that's a 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.280 legendary video. How did you come up with the concept? 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.480 And ultimately this became your main work? So at what 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.920 point did it become luquidi? What were the budget? Rocket 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.760 was an interesting one again, just a series of lucky accidents. 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:12.280 I was watching a TV news program, local TV news 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:19.320 program UM and they were showing a piece about a 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.400 sculptor and artist called Jim whit Ing. And his work, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.880 which were these strange hydraulic robots, and it was probably 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.400 about a five minute piece. And as soon as it 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:35.600 started on the TV, I I dived at the video 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.360 recorder and taped what I could of it because I 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:44.640 found it absolutely fascinating and something was it was wonderful 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:50.440 about it, incredible um. But before then the rocket track 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.680 had landed on our desk asking us to come up 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.840 with an idea for it. So when I saw this 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.680 and took the video tape over to Lowell's place, we 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:06.920 we realized that rocket sounded like this looked okay. There 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.360 was there was no doubt in our minds about that. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.600 And and back then things were relatively free. There was 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.920 no marketing department, there was no there was no real 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.520 awareness of the power of video. These were just films 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.800 that were made and nobody really knew if it hadn't 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.000 make any difference or not to the success of a record. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.640 So how it worked was you sent a track to 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.840 a director whose work you liked and asked them to 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.720 make a film and gave them a little bit of 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.680 money to do it. You were never asked to compete 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.800 with other directors or sending a written treatment. You maybe 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.800 have a conversation or two, but we were allowed to 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:52.640 do pretty much what the hell we liked, and we 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:57.640 had enough faith in the idea to actually set it 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.440 up and go for it. We had Herbie fly over 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.720 a day and we filmed him separately because we knew 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.520 we'd be putting him into the finished film in a 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:14.320 TV monitor. But nobody, including us to a degree, understood 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.440 at that stage what the Finnish film would look like. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.240 We were we were just busking, but we were busking 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.920 with confidence. It was really only when we hit the 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.040 edit suite with all this vast amount of material, and 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.920 I'd say vast because back then you couldn't play the 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:38.280 material backwards. You had to you had to retransfer all 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.480 the films of video backwards, all the footage. You couldn't 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.439 hit a button and it would go backwards. So we 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.840 had an enormous amount of footage and I think the 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:54.280 edit was probably about an eighteen to twenty edit, solid 0:17:54.960 --> 0:18:00.159 in an edit suite, very smoky edit suite um And 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.320 when we finished it, we looked at it and we 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.520 looked at each other and we said, they're gonna fucking 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:17.800 kill us, because I mean, from our perspective, it was extraordinary. Um, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:23.800 but there's been nothing like that shown anywhere before. And 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.359 so we we were, you know, we thought, you know, 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.000 fuck it, let's send it to them and and and 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:37.000 and see what happens. And predictably, it was like, don't 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:44.280 they They didn't quite understand what they were watching, if 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:50.280 that makes any sense. UM, But they didn't know they 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.040 had something. What they didn't know and what we didn't 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:58.359 know is that that's something I was going to turn 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.399 out to be something significant in kicking the medium forward. 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.760 And we want a lot of awards at the first 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:14.880 MTV show for that one particular video. It was and 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.359 it taught us that you know, believe in your instincts. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.479 You know what you're doing. Even though you don't know 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.359 that you know what you're doing, you do know something 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.320 that they don't know. So just keep doing this because 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:37.800 you're good at it. Let's go back a couple of years. 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.639 Tell me the story of the making of the video 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.560 for Duran Duran's Girls and Film. They're they're a very 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.119 clove a bunch of guys still are and as is 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:53.520 their management. They were very savvy and um in wanting 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:59.320 to break America. They we're keeping an eye on what 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.400 was going on in the clubs as well as what 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.199 was going on in TV. And what was going on 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.640 in the clubs was that they were playing these new 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.960 fangled video things in the clubs, and some of them 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.359 were kind of uncensored because there were no there's no 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.640 censorship in the clubs. The rauncher they was, the more 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.119 daring they were, the weirder they were, the more they 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.240 get played. And so as part of the brief for 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.520 Girls on Film, we were told to create a version 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.520 that was to be played in clubs, primarily in clubs, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.400 so they were kind of kind of coming out America 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.520 from underneath, not from in front. So that's what we did. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.399 It just so happened that that and and and the 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:52.760 TV Cup was a little time, as you know, but 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:57.639 the full version was kind of probably wouldn't get made today. 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.320 There's very sexy, very raunchy, very daring for its time, 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.800 and the words started to spread, as that sometimes happens, 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.320 and it was all part of this this growth, this 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.360 strange upheaval that was going on in the music business. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.439 People were getting excited about the power of the music 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.840 video and it became a thing. Had you end up 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.479 working with the Police. Um. We we used to record 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:29.840 in the same studio, strangely enough, near Well where Luell 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.600 lived at the time, in a place called Leatherhead, which 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.280 sounds like a heavy metal man. UM a little studio 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:43.680 UM called Sorry Sound, which was run by a guy 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.280 who was producing the Police at the time, and they 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:53.000 were working there and we just kind of meat every 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.479 now and again we finished a session, they start a session. 0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:00.320 And when we came into our first album as Godly 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:05.320 and Cream, Nigel Nigel Grave was the guy I'm talking about. 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.600 He played us the stuff he'd been recording with the 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:14.360 Police and it kind of made our hair sound upon 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.399 it and just three people playing and singing, whereas we 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:20.880 were messing around with all sorts of peculiar sounds and 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:25.240 and since and goodness what Um, there were these three 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.159 guys that were that were that had it that magic 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.840 stuff that everybody wants to find. And that's kind of 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.440 where we met them. And at this point we we 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:40.480 this was prior to us getting into music video really um. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.919 But when they when they had made it big and 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:52.359 they wanted to change their style on film, they called us. UM. 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.119 They were doing hugely well all over the world and 0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:00.280 in America, and the album that Every Breath You Take 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.080 was on. They wanted to present it in a more 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:08.119 sophisticated way, more interesting way, and they asked us if 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:09.800 we'd be interested in making a film for it, and 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.479 of course we were. The interesting thing is that we 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:17.240 were all They were thinking along a certain line and 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.960 we were thinking along certain lines, but we never really 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:26.480 got together to talk about it until we flew over 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:30.600 to la to meet them at the record label, and 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.840 all our ideas kind of coalesced. The idea of doing 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.280 it in black and white, the idea of holding on 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:42.600 things for an enormous amount of time as opposed to 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.800 cutting every second, which most videos did at the time, 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.600 was exactly where they wanted to go. Something that was subtle, 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:55.800 something that was delicate, something that was powerful. Um. It 0:23:55.920 --> 0:24:01.399 was an extraordinary, uplifting experience for us, a huge kick 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.199 up the ladder. There were a number of of shoots 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:07.560 around about that time, and there was Herbie, there was 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:10.520 Every Breath You Take. In fact, we did two more 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:13.439 for the Police on the same album. But that was 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.040 a big kick in the bomb for us up the ladder. 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:19.720 That made us, for want of a badder description video 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:23.280 starts not something we were aiming to be, but it 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:26.399 made us significant in the medium, and how did the 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:32.000 change your life and career made us feel good? The 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:36.040 budgets got a little bit bigger, and it gave us 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:42.160 a little bit more wait in terms of presenting ideas 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:48.320 to people. I think the industry was starting to understand, 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:54.080 at least the marketing people within the industry, We're beginning 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.640 to understand the power of a music video and how 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:03.720 it could actually help a single become a hit. And therefore, 0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:06.760 when they came to us that they knew if they 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.480 were coming to us, we weren't going to do what 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:13.359 they told us to do, and we were trusted to 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.399 a degree to deliver them something that was original, that 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:20.320 was different, but had a quality that was going to 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:23.720 help the record be a success. And we used to 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:26.480 push that home. That was that was the buzz for us. 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:31.280 In a sense, it wasn't It wasn't about the success. 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:35.639 It was about being allowed to try something that we 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:39.399 would dearly like to see on the screen and sort of, 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:42.080 shall we say, eight times out of ten it did 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.600 the job. How did you feel when you'd make a 0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:49.200 successful video? Frodact and then they would end up working 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:53.280 with somebody else for the next video. It didn't happen 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.920 that often, at least not initially, particularly in the police's case. 0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.800 We we did every breath and we did the following 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:04.320 to videos. But I think what was happening the industry 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:09.320 as an industry was was maturing and more people we're 0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:13.960 coming into the industry. More directors were realizing that you know, 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:15.960 as well as the commercials that they did, as well 0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:18.200 as the films that they did, this was an area 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:21.360 where they could be free or a little freer than 0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.200 everything else, and they could try some bizarre ideas out 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.760 that they may not be able to try in some 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:30.399 of the other area areas of their work. So I 0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:33.400 wouldn't say it was becoming crowded, but it was becoming 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:37.359 populated with a lot of different kinds of directors and 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:40.720 so there was more choice for people. And also, don't 0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:44.880 forget at the time, because labels and management people were 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:49.639 now understanding the power of the music video. They were thinking, Okay, 0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:52.399 well this is a great song. Who can we go to? 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.760 Does this guy that does this team? There's godling cream, 0:26:56.920 --> 0:26:59.639 there's so and so on the so and so and 0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:01.640 they had a number of show reels to look at, 0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:05.959