WEBVTT - The Barkley Marathons

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you

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<v Speaker 2>should know. And we are giving up right out of

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<v Speaker 2>the gate on our episode about the Barkley Marathon.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, our friend Chad. We want to shout out

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<v Speaker 1>our friend Chad Crowley, who we talked about before, who

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<v Speaker 1>was the producer and director and showrunner of our TV

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<v Speaker 1>show back in the day. I got this idea from

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<v Speaker 1>Chad because we had coffee over the holidays and he

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<v Speaker 1>is running ultra marathons now, wow, which is a very

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<v Speaker 1>Chad thing to do. Like he starts running a handful

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<v Speaker 1>of years ago and then now is running ultras. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, Chad, how long is that? And he

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<v Speaker 1>said sixty miles generally, And I said, could you run

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<v Speaker 1>to Athens? He said how far is Athens? And said

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<v Speaker 1>I can't remember how far? I said, like eighty miles.

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<v Speaker 1>He said I could run one hundred miles.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, But he'd need a ride back.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you kiddy? He said it might take a while,

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<v Speaker 1>but I could probably run one hundred miles. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just like floored by this idea that people can do this,

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<v Speaker 1>and he said, he said, man, you should do a

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<v Speaker 1>guys should do an episode on the Barkley Marathons, which

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<v Speaker 1>I had heard of before. Oh really, which is this, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which is this ultra marathon plus a trail run plus

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<v Speaker 1>in the mountains of northeastern Tennessee that is known for

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<v Speaker 1>just being a crazy race, a crazy hard race, and

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<v Speaker 1>having a really unusual origin story and unusual founder and

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<v Speaker 1>just how it's all done. It's just this remarkable story.

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<v Speaker 1>And I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a really great documentary from twenty seventeen called

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<v Speaker 2>the Barkley Marathon colon the Race that Eats It's Young,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a nickname for that race. And there's a

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<v Speaker 2>few people in there who are seasoned trail runners, ultrathonors,

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<v Speaker 2>like people who know their stuff and have done crazy

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<v Speaker 2>things as far as running goes, who are like, this

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<v Speaker 2>is far and away the hardest race on the planet, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>there's nobody who's doing anything like this, And if you

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<v Speaker 2>think you know what you're doing, you're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>completely amazed at how far off you are in what

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<v Speaker 2>you thought this is going to be, Like, it's that hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you got a chance to watch it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was good. And there was a guy who

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<v Speaker 2>was a Special Operations like I guess a former a

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<v Speaker 2>Special Ops soldier who was like, I've done crazy stuff

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<v Speaker 2>with my body and this like that did nothing to

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<v Speaker 2>prepare me for this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was really well done. It's on YouTube, and

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<v Speaker 1>I recommend watching it because it really there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of drama that takes place. The year that they did

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<v Speaker 1>the documentary. I think they did it on twenty twelve

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<v Speaker 1>or twenty thirteen maybe, oh was it and it came

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<v Speaker 1>out in seventeen, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Said, okay, so yeah, I was confused at what year

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<v Speaker 2>it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was twenty twelve or twenty thirteen, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was. There's a lot of good drama. So we

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to spoil some of the stories that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>but uh, I recommend watching. And here we go with

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<v Speaker 1>Barkley Marathons.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay. So the whole thing about Barkley marathons is

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<v Speaker 2>that you can trace them back. I mean you could

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<v Speaker 2>start at the very beginning. We talked about in our

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<v Speaker 2>what was the one crazy marathon episode we did not

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<v Speaker 2>too long ago.

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<v Speaker 1>It's on marathons.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it was on a specific marathon, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I don't know. We did want of marathons years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>No, remember the guy who was running the Human Zoos

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<v Speaker 2>at the World's Fair came up with like a he

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<v Speaker 2>called it the Special Olympics Marathon. This was months ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, Hey, you can't remember it either, buddy, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>why can't you remember it existed? At least?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Anyway, Oh, get this. Apparently we did an entire

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<v Speaker 2>short stuff on Sad's rings and didn't mention it because

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<v Speaker 2>I have no recollection of doing a short stuff on

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<v Speaker 2>Saturn's rings. Do you?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't remember that?

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<v Speaker 2>You do remember we did a saddern episode that came

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<v Speaker 2>out like a few days back.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so mad at you right now, don't you. We're

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<v Speaker 1>still getting emails on that one. So yes, I do. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, cool, What LA marathon are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>It might not be La, but it was. It was

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<v Speaker 2>like just you remember like that one Italian guy I

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<v Speaker 2>think he was running in like oh oh oh, he'd

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<v Speaker 2>stop and eat people's fruit and yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>And there were the two guys from Africa who.

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<v Speaker 1>Are remember that now?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? It was I can't remember where it was or

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<v Speaker 2>what the name was, what it was?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh boy, people are just screaming at their pod player.

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<v Speaker 2>The sad thing is the whole reason I brought that up, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 2>was to say that we went over a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the origins of marathons in that episode, so we don't

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<v Speaker 2>need to do that in this episode. That we just

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<v Speaker 2>did all that and.

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<v Speaker 1>Our Marathons episode. Yeah, anyway, let's not even do that.

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<v Speaker 1>The marathon has been a long a long time. Ultra

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<v Speaker 1>Marathon started in the nineteen seventies, and that's what we're

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<v Speaker 1>really talking about. And this guy Gary Kintrell, aka Lazarus

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<v Speaker 1>Lake or laz he's in his seventies now is he

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<v Speaker 1>is the creator, along with his friend, of the Barkley Marathon,

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<v Speaker 1>whom he named after his friend, a farmer named Barry Barkley.

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<v Speaker 1>In the documentary, very sweetly, over the end credits, they

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<v Speaker 1>ask him with Barry why he named it after Barry,

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<v Speaker 1>and he said, well, he's to help me with a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of races, and I don't know it just spit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Barkley, he's a farmer, he's never run anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, I have no idea why he named

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<v Speaker 2>it after me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so there's no real reason, but they're called the

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<v Speaker 1>Barkley Marathons. And Cantrell has an interesting story in that

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<v Speaker 1>he is a former athlete. He's run supposedly over about

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty thousand miles in his life, but

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<v Speaker 1>he smokes camel cigarettes. He just floods his body with

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<v Speaker 1>doctor pepper. He's you know, older gentleman now and has

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<v Speaker 1>kind of wrecked his legs from all that running, so

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<v Speaker 1>he hasn't run for a while. But he got interested

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<v Speaker 1>in this as a boy scout in Tennessee as a

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<v Speaker 1>teenager or preteen, I guess when he was started doing

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<v Speaker 1>backpacking trips that he hated until he found out there

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<v Speaker 1>is a great joy in overcoming a hardship and doing

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<v Speaker 1>something tough physically and completing a goal and got kind

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<v Speaker 1>of hooked on that feeling.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He also apparently really liked the idea that if

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<v Speaker 2>he continued to work at something, he would continue to improve. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a big part of he's running. That's a big

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<v Speaker 2>part of running. That's a big part of hiking. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a big part of everything that's hard while yeah exactly, So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he got the bug pretty early on he started running marathons.

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<v Speaker 2>I think in nineteen sixty six. He started running. By

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<v Speaker 2>high school, he was running marathon and then he started

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<v Speaker 2>running ultra marathons. And he was there like right at

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning of the ultra marathon craze, which I think

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<v Speaker 2>kicked off in nineteen seventy four with California's Western States

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred. A guy named Gordy Ainsley set that up.

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<v Speaker 2>And so by this time, you know, the ultra marathons

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<v Speaker 2>were starting to catch on, and Gary Kintrell was enough

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<v Speaker 2>of a runner that he knew of these things. But

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<v Speaker 2>he was also married, he was starting to have kids,

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<v Speaker 2>he had a job as an accountant, and he just

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't travel the country to go participate in ultrathons. So

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<v Speaker 2>he started setting his own up around Tennessee.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah exactly. They first took the form of what he

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<v Speaker 1>called journey runs, which is this all sounds fun. If

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<v Speaker 1>I was into running, I would do something like this.

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<v Speaker 1>But he and his friends would get together and be like,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, let's run from Knoxville to Nashville, or let's

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<v Speaker 1>run I love the three run. Their idea of a

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<v Speaker 1>through run was either from Alabama or Kentucky running to

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<v Speaker 1>the other just straight through Tennessee. Let's run through the

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<v Speaker 1>state of Tennessee. Right, pretty fun idea they were doing these.

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<v Speaker 1>They led to some other kind of legit races. I

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<v Speaker 1>think one of the two is still around. He called it,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's always had a sense of humor. You can

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<v Speaker 1>tell by the way names these things. The last annual

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<v Speaker 1>Ball State obviously Volunteer State Road Race, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred and eleven mile run from Missouri to Georgia,

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<v Speaker 1>Georgie exactly ten day cut off time, no comfort stations

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<v Speaker 1>along the way, you have to source all your own

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<v Speaker 1>food and water and shelter along the way. And then

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<v Speaker 1>another one called the Idiots Run, which I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>is around one hundred and twenty three mile gravel, all

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<v Speaker 1>gravel road run.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so bad, that's just such a bad idea. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>he called it the Idiots Run for a really good reason. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the whole his whole jam is, like he

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<v Speaker 2>loves coming up with a kind of race that just

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<v Speaker 2>is at the border between the possibility and the impossibility

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<v Speaker 2>of human endurance of what the human body can actually do,

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<v Speaker 2>Like he wants it just inside of that limit so

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<v Speaker 2>that you could, if you push yourself enough, complete this race,

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<v Speaker 2>but most people are just not going to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to because it's so close to impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, many many years the Barkley Marathon has

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<v Speaker 1>no finisher at all. Many years no one makes it

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<v Speaker 1>to the fifth loop. There are four loops that will

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<v Speaker 1>get into all this in a second. It's happening more

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<v Speaker 1>and more now, I think just there are more veterans

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<v Speaker 1>that come back that once you kind of know the deal,

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<v Speaker 1>I say, it gets a little easier, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a little easier in that it's possible to finish. It's

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<v Speaker 1>never easy, but I think the veterans have an advantage

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<v Speaker 1>for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I think I think the astonishment at how

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<v Speaker 2>difficult it is, Yeah, probably takes up a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>your mental energy and focus while you're while you're doing

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<v Speaker 2>it for the first time, and that Yeah, once you've

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<v Speaker 2>even tried it before and even dropped out, you probably

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<v Speaker 2>are past that and it's got to be a huge

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<v Speaker 2>leg up totally. So we should talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>about the whole basis of all this, right or do

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<v Speaker 2>you want to take a break?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's let's talk about where this thing's held right.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, the whole thing is held at Frozen Heads

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<v Speaker 2>State Park. It's named after Yeah, it's named after the

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<v Speaker 2>tallest peak in this state park. It's in Northeastern Tennessee,

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<v Speaker 2>which is kind of guess where Northeastern Tennessee is where

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<v Speaker 2>Virginia and North Carolina come together with Tennessee. It's beautiful

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<v Speaker 2>area and this will be in the Cumberland Mountains. And

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<v Speaker 2>this particular state park is not like the kind you

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<v Speaker 2>just you know, go to everybody goes to on the

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<v Speaker 2>weekends for picnic. It's pretty remote. It's three hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>thirty acres, but this three hundred and thirty acre state

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<v Speaker 2>park surrounded by twenty four thousand acres of forest land.

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<v Speaker 2>And the whole thing, I guess started with convict leasing.

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<v Speaker 2>So this area is like really dark.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, no totally and if you look at

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they do these aerial shots in the documentary

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<v Speaker 1>of this prison that we're about to talk about, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's just you know, it's in the middle of nowhere,

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<v Speaker 1>like at the bottom of you know, sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>ravine and very inhospitable. I mean, you'd like to think

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<v Speaker 1>about places like Alaska being like you know, some of

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<v Speaker 1>the most inhospitable places in the United States. But I

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<v Speaker 1>mean the mountains of northeastern Tennessee are no joke.

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<v Speaker 2>No, And this area is in hospitable because of its

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<v Speaker 2>terrain and in part because of the weather and the elevation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole reason there's a prison there is because back

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<v Speaker 2>in the nineteenth century, Tennessee started making money by leasing

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<v Speaker 2>its prisoners convicts to mining company. These coal mining companies

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<v Speaker 2>just make a little extra on the side from forcing

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<v Speaker 2>your prisoners to engage in hard labor. Right. Well, I

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<v Speaker 2>think in our man, I need to keep a list

0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.680
<v Speaker 2>of all of our episodes, like handy because I can't

0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.240
<v Speaker 2>remember the name of it. But do you remember that

0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.080
<v Speaker 2>one war, the strike war in the nineteenth century, and

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I think coal mines in uh Madawan Mattawan, Yes, thank you.

0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.680
<v Speaker 2>In that episode we talked a lot about what happened

0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.280
<v Speaker 2>also in Tennessee's coal mines where the labor was taking

0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.880
<v Speaker 2>on management and it was resulting in wars. Well, one

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.079
<v Speaker 2>of the things that resulted out of this in Tennessee

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 2>was that the laborers, the free laborers who worked for

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 2>the coal mining companies, would frequently help the convicts whose

0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.080
<v Speaker 2>labor was being leased out by the state escape and

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>so Tennessee was like, well, fine, we're not doing that anymore.

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.400
<v Speaker 2>But undeterred, they just started setting up their own coal

0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.959
<v Speaker 2>mines and using the prisoners directly instead of leasing them

0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:58.319
<v Speaker 2>out exactly.

0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.559
<v Speaker 1>And they needed somewhere to put those prisoners, so are workers,

0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I guess slash prisoners. So they built a new prison.

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 1>It is called Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary. And in the

0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.600
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirties a lot of that land eventually became that

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 1>great conservation area that we were talking about, those twenty

0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 1>four thousand acres, and the New Deal era Civilian Conservation

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 1>Corps built a lot of trails. It became a natural area,

0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, officially in the nineteen seventies. But there are

0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.240
<v Speaker 1>these trails there now, not like again, like you said,

0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 1>not like a lot of state park trails that you

0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.160
<v Speaker 1>go to. A lot of these trails are still pretty rough.

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 1>The prison stayed open. But why we're telling you all

0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.160
<v Speaker 1>this is for a couple of reasons. One is, at

0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 1>one point in the race, they navigate through a tunnel,

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 1>like a little water channel that goes under the prison,

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 1>and that's part of the race route where you're definitely

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>going to get your feet wet. I don't think we

0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.880
<v Speaker 1>mentioned you're running through rivers and things, so like wet feet,

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and it's just a part of the challenge of this race.

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.480
<v Speaker 1>But the prison remained open and James Earl Ray, the

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 1>assassin of Martin Luther King Junior, was sent there with

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.480
<v Speaker 1>six other men. He escaped in nineteen seventy seven from

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Brushing Mountain and spent fifty four hours in that rugged terrain,

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>eventually being recaptured about eight miles from the prison and

0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Lazarus Lake. Old laz Cantrell heard this story. Heard they

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.840
<v Speaker 1>made it only eight miles in that fifty four hours,

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 1>and he said, man, I could travel one hundred miles

0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:40.280
<v Speaker 1>through that terrain in fifty four hours. So he invents

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 1>this race sort of inspired by this. He said that

0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 1>he still gets hate mail every year and angry letters

0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 1>for people that think it's some sort of tribute to

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 1>James Earl Ray, and he's like, no, it's the opposite.

0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 1>It was started because I'm making fun of the fact

0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 1>that this guy only made it eight miles. We're doing

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 1>one hundred, one hundred and thirty.

0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Really, you want to take a break.

0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's take a break. We know the name of

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 1>the marathon, we know where it takes place, we know

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 1>who started it and where it came from. And we'll

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 1>be back with more of the bark of the marathons

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 1>right after this.

0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, So, like you said, I think in nineteen seventy seven,

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>James Lay escapes and Cantrell lived in the area. Said

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:54.840
<v Speaker 2>it was big news at the time, so he was

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 2>aware of this, and a few years later he and

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 2>his friend Carl Hen known as raw Dog for reasons

0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>that I don't want to ask about, they decided.

0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 1>It was in nineteen eighty five months you don't know,

0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 1>all right, your good point.

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 2>So they decided to hike into the state park. This

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 2>is this is a place where he's like, okay, like,

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 2>we could totally do so many more than eight miles

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and fifty four hours. Let's go check this out and

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 2>have fun. And like you said, most of this area

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.720
<v Speaker 2>are not nature trails where like there's signs posted there's

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 2>a path you can look down and follow, like these

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.320
<v Speaker 2>are hard to find trails that you need to know

0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.600
<v Speaker 2>how to use a compass, a contour map, like all

0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 2>you have to you have to be good at orienteering

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 2>is what it's called, in addition to hiking and putting

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.000
<v Speaker 2>up with all sorts of terrible just uncomfortable stuff and

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 2>pushing your your limits. So these guys were like, let's

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.720
<v Speaker 2>just go for a fun hike for a day.

0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And they showed up there. There was a park

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 1>ranger that was like, you guys should leave, Like you

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be out there. It's like, it's not like you

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 1>think you're gonna get lost, You're gonna get hurt, You're

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:11.160
<v Speaker 1>gonna need rescue. They ignored him. They did make it through.

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:12.680
<v Speaker 1>They did an eight mile They.

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.399
<v Speaker 2>Didn't even like, yeah, no his existence.

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he just walked right by. They made this eight

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.840
<v Speaker 1>mile hike, this loop. But it took him a full day,

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.240
<v Speaker 1>which is you know, you should be able to hike

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.879
<v Speaker 1>much more than eight miles in a day. And it

0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.160
<v Speaker 1>required a lot of orienteering, like you said, and paying

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.560
<v Speaker 1>attention to that kind of thing. And he said, all right,

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.160
<v Speaker 1>I think I have an idea here for a race.

0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Let's make a nearly impossible to finish race. I think

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.720
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of hard to tell because there's not a

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.840
<v Speaker 1>website for this. You can't get like historical I mean

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 1>people have written about it since then, but you can't

0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 1>get like the official website documentation on this race in

0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>history because it doesn't exist, to keep it very much

0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.119
<v Speaker 1>under wraps. So the way he tells it on the documentary,

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.159
<v Speaker 1>it was always supposed to be one hundred miles, but

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 1>no one ever did more than the first three loops

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.159
<v Speaker 1>out of the five. Yeah, I think though maybe this

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.800
<v Speaker 1>first version was shorter. It was about a fifty to

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 1>fifty five mile course. It was held over April Fool's

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:18.159
<v Speaker 1>Day weekend nineteen eighty six, and the initial cutoff was

0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:23.600
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hours with thirteen participants in zero people finishing.

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this is just a fifty to fifty five

0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.840
<v Speaker 2>mile version, like you said, Officially the current Barkley Marathon

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.359
<v Speaker 2>is one hundred mile, and in reality it's also like

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.440
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and twenty to one hundred and thirty miles

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.280
<v Speaker 2>based on reports from people who've actually run it.

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I mean he changes the route every year

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.440
<v Speaker 1>a little bit, that's why it varies. But the year

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 1>they did the documentary, it was documented at one hundred

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 1>and thirty and everybody is like, it's not one hundred

0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Just stop saying that.

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.120
<v Speaker 2>So the first version, like you said, is three loops,

0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.160
<v Speaker 2>and it wasn't until two years after the first one

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.520
<v Speaker 2>that the somebody completed it. And I mean we're talking

0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 2>like dozens of people attempting this, and it took three

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>times before one person finished. And there was something about

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.679
<v Speaker 2>this that I don't know if we've mentioned yet. Just

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.240
<v Speaker 2>this first version, there was an elevation gain of twenty

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 2>four thousand feet. So all of the times you went

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 2>up and down, if you count all the ups, it

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.640
<v Speaker 2>would equal twenty four thousand feet in elevation that you've

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:34.400
<v Speaker 2>climbed over these three loops. And that is a lot.

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.360
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, the guy who finished frozen D fertile. Yeah,

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 2>he was just edfertaw until he won, and from then

0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.920
<v Speaker 2>on he was frozen D fertile. He thought that there

0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 2>was a misprint in Ultra Running magazine that the elevation

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 2>was actually twenty four hundred feet, not twenty four thousand.

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I guess we can go ahead and tell

0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.919
<v Speaker 1>everybody the current iteration, like we said, is supposedly one

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.320
<v Speaker 1>hundred but it's really more like one hundred and thirty miles.

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.600
<v Speaker 1>It's got a sixty hour time limit and the elevation

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 1>is the total elevation climb over that race if you

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.480
<v Speaker 1>finish it is sixty thousand feet, which is equivalent to

0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>hawking to walking up and back down Mount Everest twice.

0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, so yeah, the total elevations one hundred and

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty thousand, because, yeah, if you go up sixty thousand

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 2>feet and you're coming back down, you got to come

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>down sixty thousand feet. Yes, it's harder to climb up,

0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's not that easy to go down too, especially

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 2>if you're on an incline. And that's a big part

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 2>of it too, is now diving into things like brianart

0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 2>and saplings and yeah, it's rough. Like just watching like

0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.000
<v Speaker 2>the effects on some of the runner's bodies and like

0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.160
<v Speaker 2>what they were coming back to camp looking.

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Like was oh my god, god, I bet some guy

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:50.160
<v Speaker 1>had like a.

0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Head wound and they show him like slipping on rocks

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.239
<v Speaker 2>and hitting his forehead. It was really it's nuts what

0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:57.760
<v Speaker 2>these people are doing to themselves.

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean their legs are all just because these

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 1>briers they have to go through one part which is

0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:08.000
<v Speaker 1>a really heavy brier area, but every single person's legs

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>are just thrashed.

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Like it looks like ground meat.

0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, like disgusting bleeding. Their feet are disgusting and

0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 1>blistered and and just riddled with I think the one

0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 1>guy that we'll get to the stops, but the one guy,

0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 1>they were like, it would take you eight hours to

0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.520
<v Speaker 1>fully dry your feet out, so you know you can't.

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.960
<v Speaker 1>You're not gonna get dry feet, which is a big problem.

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 1>And they're basically not sleeping when you when you complete

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.119
<v Speaker 1>a loop, you have what's called an interlooper period where

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:43.919
<v Speaker 1>you can do whatever you want. You can take however

0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.480
<v Speaker 1>much time you want to get. You can get first aid,

0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.320
<v Speaker 1>you can eat, you can drink, you can rest, you

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.639
<v Speaker 1>can change your clothes and socks, you can take a

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 1>nap if you want. But that clock is still running,

0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:58.600
<v Speaker 1>so how long you wait is up to you. I

0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.120
<v Speaker 1>think the winner that you said he slept about an

0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.679
<v Speaker 1>hour total. So just try staying up and awake for

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:05.720
<v Speaker 1>sixty hours in a.

0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Chair and without drugs.

0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. These people are doing this and you know,

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.199
<v Speaker 1>we say it's a run, like a lot of this

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:20.360
<v Speaker 1>is hiking and bouldering and walking and crawling, so it's

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:22.920
<v Speaker 1>not like they're running the whole time. But it's just brutal.

0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really is. One of the other things that

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:28.320
<v Speaker 2>really kind of gets this across too, is in what

0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.080
<v Speaker 2>you said, So you've got sixty hours to finish, and

0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 2>from the start that clock's always ticking, right, Yeah, but

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.000
<v Speaker 2>you're going one hundred and thirty miles. So if you

0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 2>do the math. Olivia helps us with this, and she

0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 2>pointed out that goodness, Yeah, you could sleep for two

0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 2>eight hour nights and still finish this course at a

0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.639
<v Speaker 2>twenty minute mile pace, which you can basically do on

0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.280
<v Speaker 2>your hands and knees, and still complete it within the

0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.800
<v Speaker 2>sixty hour cutoff. So the fact that some people can't

0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.560
<v Speaker 2>even finish the first loop, yeah, go to show you

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 2>how difficult this is. That if we were flat, it

0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:08.200
<v Speaker 2>would be beyond easy. But those same those same limits,

0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the time limit and the length put on this particular

0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:18.040
<v Speaker 2>terrain or in this topography is just it changes absolutely everything.

0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, at this twelve hour time limit per loop

0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:23.680
<v Speaker 1>must have come in after the documentary, right.

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:28.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that confused me too, because they were finishing in

0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.000
<v Speaker 2>like thirteen hours and something like that. I didn't get that.

0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.240
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I think it must have been a new one.

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think so. So finishing the three loops. If

0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.640
<v Speaker 1>you finish three loops, that is considered a fun run,

0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and that is a designation and that is a huge accomplishment. Yeah,

0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.679
<v Speaker 1>just to finish the fun run. We should add he

0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:50.880
<v Speaker 1>also has a baby Barkley in the Fall, the Berkeley

0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.399
<v Speaker 1>Barkeley Fall Classic, which is a fifty k so thirty

0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:56.879
<v Speaker 1>one miles, and that has about four hundred runners, but

0:23:57.000 --> 0:23:59.639
<v Speaker 1>only about thirty five to forty participants are allowed per

0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 1>year to compete in this thing because of you know,

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:06.760
<v Speaker 1>it's out in nature, so that the state won't let

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.120
<v Speaker 1>them have like hundreds of people. Like not a ton

0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:12.240
<v Speaker 1>of people can go watch. It's just like family and

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I think some you know, former winners can be there

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.479
<v Speaker 1>and it's you know, it's pretty small operation because they

0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.639
<v Speaker 1>just can't you know, run rough shot over the area.

0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:23.639
<v Speaker 1>But they have the sixty hours to complete, now twelve

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:28.720
<v Speaker 1>hours per loop. The first loop is run clockwise. The

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:34.159
<v Speaker 1>second loop, which is at night, will go counterclockwise, and

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 1>then again day night clockwise counterclockwise. And then this is

0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.960
<v Speaker 1>pretty devious, the final fifth loop. If you get there,

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:44.679
<v Speaker 1>the first person to finish the fourth gets a choice

0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:47.600
<v Speaker 1>which way they want to run, and then they start

0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:50.439
<v Speaker 1>splitting people up, because almost everybody runs with a buddy

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 1>or two. It really really helps to have someone out

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.479
<v Speaker 1>there and they're really helping each other. But at the end,

0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.000
<v Speaker 1>he's like, you're gonna lose your buddy, which way do

0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:00.920
<v Speaker 1>you want to run? And the first person will say,

0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:04.080
<v Speaker 1>I'll go clockwise, the next person has to go counterclockwise,

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.159
<v Speaker 1>and then they alternate. So at some point, if they

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:09.919
<v Speaker 1>finish that fifth loop, they're going to pass their former

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:12.119
<v Speaker 1>buddy going in the opposite direction.

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, And in the documentary, Cantrell points out like

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:19.679
<v Speaker 2>these by this time, these people who had like formed

0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.320
<v Speaker 2>serious bonds by running together oh total loops, are now

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.800
<v Speaker 2>direct competitors. Like, now it's a race because they're in

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the fifth loop, and whoever's going to finish in what

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:31.440
<v Speaker 2>time they finish a yeah, yeah, is going to determine

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:34.600
<v Speaker 2>the actual winner, Like now there's a possible winner, yeah,

0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>And everything changes. So I don't they probably don't like

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.240
<v Speaker 2>class pans, and then you know they're they're pulled apart,

0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:43.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, sadly when they have to go in different

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:45.200
<v Speaker 2>directions at that point.

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:48.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's probably it makes it a lot tougher,

0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 1>but I get the idea that if you make it,

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:55.080
<v Speaker 1>if you're one of the maybe two, maybe three, maximum

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:58.280
<v Speaker 1>four people that are even on the fifth loop, then

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.200
<v Speaker 1>that's when things get serious. That's when it turns into

0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:02.000
<v Speaker 1>an actual race.

0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what I took it as too. One thing

0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:08.000
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't get I got from context. I didn't

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:10.080
<v Speaker 2>see it anywhere because I guess it's so obvious. No

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>one thought it needed to be spelled out except me.

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:17.320
<v Speaker 2>But it's the same loop, right, Yeah, Okay, so they're

0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:19.320
<v Speaker 2>doing the same loop five times, which is why they

0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 2>do it clockwise and counterclockwise and different ones at day

0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 2>and night, so that you can't just be like, yep,

0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I remember this, this is nothing now, I remember exactly

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:32.080
<v Speaker 2>what the trail is. You're super disoriented the first time,

0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 2>but it's not like you have it down pat after

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:36.160
<v Speaker 2>that first loop necessarily.

0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it definitely doesn't seem like it gets easier

0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 1>because that they were finishing when they were fresh legged

0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:43.879
<v Speaker 1>at loop one, they were finishing in about eight or

0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:47.440
<v Speaker 1>nine hours for the fastest times, and then those fastest

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 1>people were doing like twelve and thirteen hours on the

0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:54.320
<v Speaker 1>next loop through the darkness. Yeah, and we should mention

0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the weather. You know, it's with these huge elevation changes.

0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:01.240
<v Speaker 1>You're going to go from temperatures sometimes in April in

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:06.920
<v Speaker 1>the eighties where it's low to like ten degrees at night.

0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:10.160
<v Speaker 1>They have about one hundred gallons of water they put

0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 1>out randomly on the course, like there are no technical

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:15.280
<v Speaker 1>water stations, but you'll just happen upon a jug of water.

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:19.480
<v Speaker 1>And Laz said that. You know, one year they were

0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:24.240
<v Speaker 1>one hundred eight pound blocks of ice because it was

0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:27.640
<v Speaker 1>ten degrees at elevation. Yeah, it's just crazy.

0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I say, we take a break and talk about how

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 2>you would get into this race and then what it's

0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:33.359
<v Speaker 2>actually like running it.

0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's do it.

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this is.

0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:10.960
<v Speaker 1>All right, so we're back. The race is about to begin.

0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:13.000
<v Speaker 1>We should point out to the other thing to keep

0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:17.200
<v Speaker 1>in mind is if you quit, quit near the start

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:20.560
<v Speaker 1>finish line, right, because like a lot of people finish

0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:22.640
<v Speaker 1>like a loop and they're like, I'm out, or maybe

0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>the two or a lot of people get to that

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.439
<v Speaker 1>third fun run and they say that's good enough for me.

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:30.840
<v Speaker 1>The one guy in the documentary quit and it took

0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:34.600
<v Speaker 1>him ten hours to navigate back because it's not like

0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:37.359
<v Speaker 1>they send somebody out you don't tap out on radio

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 1>and they come and get you. Yeah, you just decide

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:42.120
<v Speaker 1>I can't do this anymore, and then you very slowly

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:43.800
<v Speaker 1>walk back to the finish line.

0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And at some point you might as well be like, well,

0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:47.720
<v Speaker 2>at least I guess I'm gonna have to finish the

0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 2>first loop. I might as well keep going that direction.

0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, totally, or if there, I mean, it depends

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:56.480
<v Speaker 1>on where you are. If you're below the halfway point,

0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:58.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people come back the way they came right.

0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So going even back before the start of the race,

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>you said that the Barkley Marathon has no website, and

0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 2>that is intentional. The whole thing is meant to be

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:15.280
<v Speaker 2>kept largely a secret. There's not a website. There's not

0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:18.360
<v Speaker 2>like some information on this is how you apply. You

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 2>have to use basically your investigative skills just to figure

0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:27.600
<v Speaker 2>out Gary Cantrell's email to email to ask to apply.

0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And they make it really really hard to apply for

0:29:31.440 --> 0:29:35.440
<v Speaker 2>this because in part they're just weeding out people who

0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:39.360
<v Speaker 2>don't have even the beginning of the motivation and dedication

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:43.040
<v Speaker 2>to complete this race. Like if you can't even go

0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 2>to this trouble to like, really do your research to

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.080
<v Speaker 2>figure out how to apply. Then don't even bother trying

0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:54.000
<v Speaker 2>to apply. There's no website, no thanks exactly, and if

0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>you do want to imply, you have to cough up

0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:56.840
<v Speaker 2>a dollar sixty.

0:29:57.440 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a non refundable application fee. I think most

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.960
<v Speaker 1>people send in two single dollar bills because he says

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:09.200
<v Speaker 1>they don't give change. And he every year chooses, you know,

0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 1>he chooses a range of people. Some of them are

0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:15.680
<v Speaker 1>very experienced, some of them are random. Every year he

0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 1>chooses one human sacrifice that he said the runners even appreciate,

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:22.840
<v Speaker 1>even at the expense of not getting in themselves. He

0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:26.720
<v Speaker 1>chooses one person that has no business being there. In

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:28.760
<v Speaker 1>the year of the documentary, that poor guy made it

0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:32.440
<v Speaker 1>six hours, yeah before And I knew as soon as

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:38.760
<v Speaker 1>that guy headed out in his camouflage cargo pants, I

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.000
<v Speaker 1>was like, this guy, what is he doing? What's he wearing?

0:30:42.160 --> 0:30:43.280
<v Speaker 1>So he didn't make it very far?

0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:46.480
<v Speaker 2>No, he didn't. And he was like, this is six

0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:49.560
<v Speaker 2>hours man, Like he didn't make it very far at all. Now,

0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:53.520
<v Speaker 2>and this guy was way more qualified to do it

0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 2>than like the average person. Like it wasn't like he

0:30:56.920 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 2>was just some like he went and plopped the guy

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 2>out of mc donald's like mid bite of a big

0:31:02.440 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 2>mac and right through him on the trail. Like this

0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:06.800
<v Speaker 2>guy was in pretty decent shape, and he thought that

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.000
<v Speaker 2>he had a chance. It's not like he's like, yeah,

0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:12.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go be the sacrificial human, right right. He

0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:14.640
<v Speaker 2>thought like he was going to try to complete it.

0:31:14.680 --> 0:31:16.320
<v Speaker 2>He didn't even I don't even think he made it

0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:17.880
<v Speaker 2>halfway through the first loop, did he?

0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:19.960
<v Speaker 1>No? I don't think so.

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:21.520
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty funny and sad. He took it on

0:31:23.480 --> 0:31:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the chin like a like a like a big boy though.

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, imagine if he'd started like yelling, you just.

0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Brought me out here to make fun of me a

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.440
<v Speaker 1>little bit. More about the application process, everyone knows it

0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:40.280
<v Speaker 1>takes place generally around April Pool's day. They send in

0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:44.080
<v Speaker 1>an essay to get in with a weird prompts, like

0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 1>one year it was what's the most important vegetable group?

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:49.280
<v Speaker 1>One of the women, I think she was in the

0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:52.960
<v Speaker 1>documentary that you're Beverly Abs who by the way, that

0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 1>you're completed the fun run so quite an achievement. She

0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.760
<v Speaker 1>said she was told to send the application in exactly

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:04.920
<v Speaker 1>at midnight on Christmas Day in the time zone where

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Lazarus Lake was, so she had to figure out where

0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:10.440
<v Speaker 1>he was at the time. And then she wrote a

0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:13.760
<v Speaker 1>poem as her essay and she got in right. And

0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:16.280
<v Speaker 1>then once you get in, you get a letter that

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:20.400
<v Speaker 1>says I'm sorry to inform you that you have been accepted. Basically,

0:32:20.480 --> 0:32:21.320
<v Speaker 1>misery awaits you.

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the whole, the whole jam. The way that

0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:28.720
<v Speaker 2>it's treated is like you're like, you're not going to finish,

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>You're a dummy for even trying. There's this weird kind

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 2>of push pull going on that Gary Cantrell established basically

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 2>out of the gate that's based on his kind of

0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:44.239
<v Speaker 2>impish sense of humor. Yeah, and so that means that like,

0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:48.480
<v Speaker 2>you're just as likely to be abused or mocked when

0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:51.160
<v Speaker 2>you like quit as you are to be told like, hey,

0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:54.560
<v Speaker 2>you completed one loop. That's pretty good just in and

0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:56.800
<v Speaker 2>of itself. It just, I guess depends on what his

0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:58.960
<v Speaker 2>mood is right then, and a lot of people like,

0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:02.880
<v Speaker 2>aren't don't really like this guy that much? They like,

0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:05.280
<v Speaker 2>if you don't, if you're not tuned into his sense

0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>of humor, you're probably not gonna like him. You might

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:11.160
<v Speaker 2>find him obnoxious or you know, I might find him

0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:14.080
<v Speaker 2>just mean, but if you are tuned into it, I

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.960
<v Speaker 2>think he's he's pretty funny. Like reading about him on

0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>paper and reading interviews with him, I was like, I

0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 2>don't really like this guy. Yeah, and then I saw

0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:23.600
<v Speaker 2>him in the documentary. I'm like, oh, okay, saying he's

0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:26.880
<v Speaker 2>just hard to translate into a description, and when you

0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 2>see him talk yourself, you're like, yeah, he's fine.

0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's He's one of the great eccentrics of the world.

0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:36.120
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes those people are hard to pin down, you know,

0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 1>because they'll fit into a box.

0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 2>I know.

0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 1>But he has to write some other fun things. If

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:45.320
<v Speaker 1>you're a first time runner, you bring a license plate

0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>from your home state or home country and he makes

0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>these cool signs out of them and hangs them up.

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 1>If you have to bring a gift as well, if

0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:57.160
<v Speaker 1>you are part of the race. If you are a

0:33:57.200 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>first time runner, you have to bring an article of clothing.

0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 1>And the documentary was very funny. He said it kind

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:04.120
<v Speaker 1>of depends what he needs. One year it was a

0:34:04.120 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 1>bunch of white ox for shirts. Another year it was socks,

0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 1>another year was flannel shirts, and then if you have

0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:11.359
<v Speaker 1>finished the race and you come back to race again,

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:13.799
<v Speaker 1>you have to bring him a pack of camel cigarettes.

0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the camel cigarettes play a big role because

0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:20.279
<v Speaker 2>the start of the race is marked officially by him

0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:24.319
<v Speaker 2>lighting a cigarette. So everybody's standing there at this gate

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 2>that's the official starting line for the race, and just

0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:31.640
<v Speaker 2>standing there waiting for him to light the cigarette. And

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:33.759
<v Speaker 2>he finally does and it's like a random time. I

0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 2>think it was like eight to eleven am when the

0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:39.879
<v Speaker 2>whole thing started, and he lights a cigarette and soon

0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:40.919
<v Speaker 2>everybody takes off.

0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when you get accepted, you know what day it's

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.600
<v Speaker 1>going to be on. You go, you camp out in

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 1>the campground and you're just sort of waiting for him

0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:52.400
<v Speaker 1>to blow the conck. He blows a conk sometime between

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:54.640
<v Speaker 1>midnight and noon on the Saturday of that weekend. You

0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:57.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know when it's coming. So if he blows it

0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 1>at you know, seven am or sometime in the more,

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:03.120
<v Speaker 1>you're up all night. You're not getting sleep because you're

0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:06.399
<v Speaker 1>so amped up and ready for this and apprehensive because

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 1>you don't know when it starts again. He's just sort

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 1>of messing with people. Yeah, and so when he decides

0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:13.200
<v Speaker 1>to blow the conk. He blows the conk. That means

0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:16.960
<v Speaker 1>you have one hour and everybody you know starts getting

0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:21.719
<v Speaker 1>ready to go. At that point there is no prize.

0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:25.440
<v Speaker 1>We should also mention the prize is just finishing this thing.

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean there's bragging rights for sure. Like you

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:32.800
<v Speaker 2>if you told any ultra marathon runner, you know, trail

0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 2>runner that you completed the Darkly Marathon, like they would

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:39.080
<v Speaker 2>drop to their knees and start kissing your rings.

0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it gets a big.

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Deal to have finished this. And yet there's also like

0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:49.960
<v Speaker 2>from Gary Cantrell's perspective, from everything that I've read, the

0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:52.640
<v Speaker 2>way that he describes it as like he's giving people

0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:58.680
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to push themselves to their maximum possible limits.

0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Because remember this race is intended to be just inside

0:36:02.320 --> 0:36:07.400
<v Speaker 2>the possible human the possibility of the human body. Right, Yeah,

0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 2>so if you can complete it, like you're doing all

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:12.280
<v Speaker 2>sorts of things that you never thought you were capable

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:16.120
<v Speaker 2>of it, Like your mental endurance is among the greatest

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:21.040
<v Speaker 2>of people walking around. And so yeah, it's way more

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:24.520
<v Speaker 2>than just bragging rights, Like you're if you're into bragging rights,

0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:27.200
<v Speaker 2>you're probably not even going to finish the first loop,

0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Like if that's why you're doing it and you somehow

0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 2>got accepted, it's not going to translate. So these people

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:34.880
<v Speaker 2>don't care about bragging rights, even though they would have

0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:36.120
<v Speaker 2>bragging rights for life.

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Totally. I like that one dude, the long hair guy

0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:42.560
<v Speaker 1>from Arizona in the documentary that that was his first one.

0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:46.040
<v Speaker 1>He just had a cool vibe. Like everyone had a

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:49.280
<v Speaker 1>pretty cool vibe. Like it's a really as a great

0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:52.920
<v Speaker 1>spirit of helping one another out. And during the interloper

0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:55.200
<v Speaker 1>periods where they're which is by the way, the only

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 1>time they're allowed to have their sort of aid crew

0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 1>with them, like they don't you know, they can't get

0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:03.719
<v Speaker 1>helped along the way. So this is when they see

0:37:03.760 --> 0:37:06.600
<v Speaker 1>other people and there's other former winners there, and when

0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:09.880
<v Speaker 1>people drop out, they stick around and they're really helping

0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:12.680
<v Speaker 1>people get their feet together and they're giving them dry

0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 1>socks and feeding them and it's just a real great

0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:19.719
<v Speaker 1>spirit of sort of camaraderie and helping one and out

0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:21.919
<v Speaker 1>another out. It feels like, yeah, it's pretty cool.

0:37:22.000 --> 0:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because as people get pared down, the people around

0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:28.760
<v Speaker 2>them are like they want to see somebody succeed then.

0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:32.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, pretty cool, real quick. What else as

0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:36.480
<v Speaker 1>far as housekeeping, No GPS, that's a big one. They

0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:38.480
<v Speaker 1>can wear a little cheap or they're given a little

0:37:38.560 --> 0:37:43.640
<v Speaker 1>cheap watch. And I think they banned altimeters in twenty

0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:47.040
<v Speaker 1>fourteen or twelve or something.

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Something like that. Either way, you're stripped down to the

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.600
<v Speaker 2>bear essentials. Yeah, and you have a map, but you

0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:55.840
<v Speaker 2>don't have a copy of their map. They give you

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.719
<v Speaker 2>the master map to use to trace the route onto

0:37:58.760 --> 0:38:02.320
<v Speaker 2>your own map. He traced it incorrectly. Well, that's ts

0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:04.960
<v Speaker 2>for you. And people do get lost like a lot.

0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:08.719
<v Speaker 2>There was one guy who oh, man, don't remember what

0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 2>year it was, Oh, in two thousand and six. Yeah,

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:15.279
<v Speaker 2>this guy wandered off the course and spent thirty two

0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 2>hours trying to get back. Man, And in the end

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 2>he only did like two miles of the actual course.

0:38:23.760 --> 0:38:26.239
<v Speaker 2>He wandered so far off course. So the way he

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:29.520
<v Speaker 2>put it, he did sixteen hour miles in this race.

0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:31.479
<v Speaker 1>God, I felt so bad for that guy.

0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. Yeah, And then what else.

0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Chuck, this isn't And to me, this is kind of

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:38.640
<v Speaker 1>one of the coolest things because the whole time, until

0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:40.719
<v Speaker 1>we had gotten to this part, I was like, well,

0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:43.960
<v Speaker 1>how do they know that people are running that route

0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 1>because they're not staked out along the way. In the

0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:49.200
<v Speaker 1>documentary they had some people staked out a little bit

0:38:49.239 --> 0:38:51.160
<v Speaker 1>just to get some footage, but it's not like they

0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 1>have people at checkpoints that are making sure they're on

0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:56.120
<v Speaker 1>the route and all that. He did something pretty lo

0:38:56.280 --> 0:39:00.359
<v Speaker 1>fi and genius, which was he puts ten books out

0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:03.880
<v Speaker 1>ten to twelve depending on the year, at different points

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:06.560
<v Speaker 1>along the way, and you have to rip the page

0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:10.560
<v Speaker 1>out corresponding to your BIB number, and that is the

0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:12.440
<v Speaker 1>proof that you ran the real route. You have to

0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>show up with depending on how many books, ten or

0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:18.319
<v Speaker 1>eleven pages when you touch that start finish line, and

0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 1>you have to turn them over to Cantrell and he

0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:21.319
<v Speaker 1>has to look them over and verify it.

0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'm guessing that they they are the books

0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:26.520
<v Speaker 2>in the same place every time.

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Ah, that I'm not sure about.

0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:30.719
<v Speaker 2>But I do know that they hide them. They're not

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.239
<v Speaker 2>just always out in plain sight. Like the one of

0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:36.440
<v Speaker 2>the things you're having to stay oriented, you're having to

0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:39.160
<v Speaker 2>push your body and endure, and then you're also at

0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:41.359
<v Speaker 2>the same time having to make sure you don't trop

0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:43.360
<v Speaker 2>past one of the books. So you have to backtrack

0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:44.600
<v Speaker 2>and get the page out.

0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean the one guy the year of the

0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:49.239
<v Speaker 1>documentary that won and set the record. I think he

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:51.520
<v Speaker 1>said he spent a couple of hours looking for the book.

0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:54.080
<v Speaker 2>I would lose my mind. Man.

0:39:54.239 --> 0:39:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:56.640
<v Speaker 2>And also if you're like, well, how do you get

0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:59.120
<v Speaker 2>the same page eleven times? Do you get a different

0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:02.160
<v Speaker 2>BIB number? Free loop? So you would be tearing out

0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:04.240
<v Speaker 2>a different page each time.

0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think there was a story just last year.

0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:10.719
<v Speaker 1>In fact, there was a French runner who got to

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:15.760
<v Speaker 1>the final loop to find that a book was gone.

0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:17.680
<v Speaker 1>There was a day hiker that thought the race was

0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:20.680
<v Speaker 1>over and took the book as a memento, so he's like,

0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:22.759
<v Speaker 1>what do I do? He completed the race and when

0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:24.600
<v Speaker 1>he got back to the gate, they had turned the

0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:26.560
<v Speaker 1>book in, so they counted that.

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:31.080
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. Yeah. I've read about one runner too, who

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 2>I think this. I don't remember what year was, maybe

0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:38.399
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen or seventeen. He made it. He showed up

0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 2>six seconds after time. Oh my god. But he had

0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:46.799
<v Speaker 2>all his pages and they said like he was just

0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:49.920
<v Speaker 2>collapsed on the ground and he said, I have all

0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:54.080
<v Speaker 2>my pages. But he didn't make it by six seconds.

0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, I bet that he feels a great sense

0:40:57.080 --> 0:41:00.600
<v Speaker 1>of accomplishment, though I would think, so sure finished that

0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:04.120
<v Speaker 1>thing six seconds, be damned. You know, you'd have.

0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:06.080
<v Speaker 2>To be one hell of a perfectionist to be like,

0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:09.320
<v Speaker 2>well I failed technically, Yeah, for sure.

0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:12.719
<v Speaker 1>I think there was one more piece of housekeeping here.

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's right. When a runner gives up, a guy

0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.520
<v Speaker 1>named Dave Hen, who is a race volunteer, plays taps

0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:24.200
<v Speaker 1>on a bugle.

0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's Carl raw Dog Hen's son.

0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh is it it is raw Dog Junior?

0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Little raw Dog.

0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Or the third Yeah, he said.

0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:39.439
<v Speaker 2>He said that he thinks the reason why is because

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:43.560
<v Speaker 2>it's just one final punishment for you from Gary Cantrell

0:41:43.760 --> 0:41:47.600
<v Speaker 2>to basically be humiliated with taps. And on the on

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:51.319
<v Speaker 2>the other side, some runners when they finish, especially when

0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:55.200
<v Speaker 2>they actually complete the race, he has one of those staples,

0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:58.200
<v Speaker 2>easy buttons, Yeah, that they press and when you press it,

0:41:58.239 --> 0:41:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a voice goes that was easy.

0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It was really fun to watch. It was someone

0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>just like on their last leg literally, like you're bleeding

0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 1>at the legs and he's like hit the button right

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:11.560
<v Speaker 1>because that was easy.

0:42:12.080 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The guy who was on the documentary was I

0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 2>think his name was John Kelly. He finished second of

0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:22.480
<v Speaker 2>two I think that year, maybe three, and he they

0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:25.879
<v Speaker 2>show him and he's just totally out of it, like

0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:30.040
<v Speaker 2>he's sitting on a chair with people surrounded surrounding him

0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:32.640
<v Speaker 2>talking and yeah, yeah, he's just in another world, like

0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.279
<v Speaker 2>totally out of his skull because he hadn't slept at

0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:36.680
<v Speaker 2>all like that whole time.

0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sixty hours.

0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:39.160
<v Speaker 2>It's crazy.

0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Man. The one guy that couldn't in the documentary that

0:42:42.960 --> 0:42:44.400
<v Speaker 1>tapped out and was just like crying.

0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:46.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh I don't remember him, which one?

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:49.399
<v Speaker 1>Uh boy, that was tough. He had kind of dark,

0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 1>curly hair and he was pretty pumped up going into

0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:55.759
<v Speaker 1>it about his chances and yeah, I mean, what can

0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:58.720
<v Speaker 1>you say about a race where like whatever, probably ninety

0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:01.520
<v Speaker 1>eight percent of the people had never been right, maybe

0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:02.919
<v Speaker 1>more maybe ninety nine.

0:43:03.160 --> 0:43:06.880
<v Speaker 2>That was a well. Yeah, so I think officially twenty

0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:11.640
<v Speaker 2>out of one thousand plus people have finished. So I'm

0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:15.040
<v Speaker 2>sure we have some sixth graders who can calculate that

0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:16.279
<v Speaker 2>for us and send it in.

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:20.480
<v Speaker 1>Let me see last I'm sorry. This year there were

0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:24.320
<v Speaker 1>a record five people completed it, and that is I

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:27.200
<v Speaker 1>think the maximum before that may have been three, maybe four,

0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:32.239
<v Speaker 1>but usually it's one, maybe two or zero last. I'm sorry.

0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:37.040
<v Speaker 1>This year a woman was a finisher for the first time. Yes,

0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:39.480
<v Speaker 1>me and Paris or Perry. I don't know how she

0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.799
<v Speaker 1>pronounces it. She came in two minutes short of the

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:44.080
<v Speaker 1>deadline to finish that race.

0:43:45.080 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so she finished with two minutes last.

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:48.239
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's incredible.

0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:50.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really is. And one of the reasons it's

0:43:50.840 --> 0:43:53.080
<v Speaker 2>incredible is because Gary Cantrell. This is another reason a

0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:55.399
<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't like him. For years and years

0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 2>and years, he would say publicly, there's no woman out

0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:02.120
<v Speaker 2>there who could possibly finish this race. Yes, And you know,

0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:05.439
<v Speaker 2>he was criticized for saying that kind of thing because

0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:09.759
<v Speaker 2>there's plenty of amazing women marathonors and ultrath honors and

0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:14.160
<v Speaker 2>trail runners. And he defended it by basically saying, if

0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:18.120
<v Speaker 2>a woman could defeat this, it would be exactly the

0:44:18.200 --> 0:44:20.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of woman who would need to hear somebody say

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.440
<v Speaker 2>something like a woman would never be able to complete this.

0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:25.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree, got yeah, And I don't know if

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:28.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm being an apologist, but I got the idea that

0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:32.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that was sort of goating. Yes, someone

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:34.319
<v Speaker 1>to finish, Like that's how I took it too. Yeah,

0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:36.040
<v Speaker 1>Like deep down he's like, there's going to be a

0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:37.640
<v Speaker 1>woman that's going to do this, and maybe I need

0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:39.439
<v Speaker 1>to stoke the fire a little bit, right.

0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:44.360
<v Speaker 2>So finally, yes, I think Jasmine Paris's She's a brit

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:46.879
<v Speaker 2>who teaches at the University of Scotland. Did you say

0:44:46.920 --> 0:44:47.719
<v Speaker 2>that part?

0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:49.800
<v Speaker 1>No, I also said Jasmin Peris.

0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:53.120
<v Speaker 2>I know that was just correcting you. Oh, I'm sure

0:44:53.120 --> 0:44:54.760
<v Speaker 2>it was Jasmine per Jesmond Pieri.

0:44:57.080 --> 0:45:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Who else? In twenty twenty four, a mechanic engineer named

0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Jared Campbell became the first four time finisher. He's in

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:08.760
<v Speaker 1>the documentary and an interesting just sort of side note

0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:11.719
<v Speaker 1>in this and Lyvia pointed out, but then when you

0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.440
<v Speaker 1>watch the documentary it really hits home is that it

0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:17.480
<v Speaker 1>seems like this race and ultra marathoning and this sort

0:45:17.480 --> 0:45:22.080
<v Speaker 1>of endurancing attracts people of very, very high intelligence. I

0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:24.680
<v Speaker 1>felt like every person they interviewed were like, I'm an engineer,

0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:29.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm a I'm a scientist. And they talked to almost

0:45:29.480 --> 0:45:32.759
<v Speaker 1>called him Barkley to Lazarus about this to Cantrell in

0:45:32.800 --> 0:45:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the documentary and he said, yeah, he said those are

0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:38.040
<v Speaker 1>the achievers in life. Those are the people that go

0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:41.120
<v Speaker 1>to graduate school and go to get their doctoral thesis,

0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:44.799
<v Speaker 1>and people who set hard goals and accomplish them. It

0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:47.439
<v Speaker 1>just sort of fits. And I never really thought about

0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:50.000
<v Speaker 1>that that tie. But I don't think there's a lot

0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:52.239
<v Speaker 1>of dumb dumbs that do stuff like this.

0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:56.080
<v Speaker 2>No, although even though dumb dumb to do.

0:45:56.040 --> 0:45:57.680
<v Speaker 1>It, it's a weird dichotomy.

0:45:57.800 --> 0:46:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Yep, I say. We finished on the story of John

0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Fega Veresi.

0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:04.120
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's hear it.

0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:08.359
<v Speaker 2>He was a runner in oh, I don't know what

0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:11.960
<v Speaker 2>year he ran, but he was an experienced ultra marathon runner.

0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:16.880
<v Speaker 2>He participated in the Bad Water ultra marathon, which runs

0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:20.440
<v Speaker 2>through Death Valley one hundred and thirty five miles. Yeah,

0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:24.919
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, this is that's nothing I'm paraphrasing. Yeah,

0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:27.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure he wouldn't say this, but he was basically

0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:30.200
<v Speaker 2>like that, you can't even really compare the two. And

0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:35.320
<v Speaker 2>he completed it, and he was so incoherent from sleep

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:40.960
<v Speaker 2>deprivation that he apparently didn't remember like downing a pint

0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.640
<v Speaker 2>of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, like at the finish line.

0:46:44.239 --> 0:46:46.200
<v Speaker 2>He had no idea that he'd done that, and he

0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:48.520
<v Speaker 2>spent the next day and a half just laying around

0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:51.920
<v Speaker 2>the campground recovering. So after that time he's like, all right,

0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:54.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess I'll drive home, and he started falling asleep

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:57.200
<v Speaker 2>on the way home, so he had to stop and

0:46:57.320 --> 0:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>check himself into a hotel, where he slept for an

0:47:00.040 --> 0:47:01.400
<v Speaker 2>another sixteen hours.

0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Man, that's called human exhaustion.

0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I say we quietly close the door and

0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:12.280
<v Speaker 2>leave John to his slumber and go on to a listener. Mayl.

0:47:26.080 --> 0:47:28.439
<v Speaker 1>I do want to shout out the record though, Brett Mahn,

0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:31.759
<v Speaker 1>who is one or a few times now, I think

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:35.359
<v Speaker 1>he's a physicist. The record, current record right now is

0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:38.560
<v Speaker 1>lies with Brett at fifty two hours, three minutes and

0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:41.120
<v Speaker 1>eight seconds. Very nice, just incredible.

0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:42.680
<v Speaker 2>You woke John up. That's right.

0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:45.319
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, John, come back and sleep. Here's your chubby hobby.

0:47:46.760 --> 0:47:47.480
<v Speaker 2>That's the best.

0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:49.320
<v Speaker 1>I can't find it anymore.

0:47:49.640 --> 0:47:50.279
<v Speaker 2>I can't either.

0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:54.480
<v Speaker 1>It's people say it exists. I get pictures occasionally emails,

0:47:55.160 --> 0:47:57.200
<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't exist in Atlanta.

0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:59.960
<v Speaker 2>That's said. What did Alena do to be so punished?

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:02.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't need ice cream anymore anyway,

0:48:02.480 --> 0:48:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Which is the saddest part of this story. All right,

0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:09.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna call this a lake versus pond. We got

0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:12.080
<v Speaker 1>quite a few emails, by the way, I want to

0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:16.880
<v Speaker 1>mention one differentiator we saw said that the difference they

0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:19.640
<v Speaker 1>heard between lake versus pond is if sunlight can reach

0:48:19.680 --> 0:48:23.400
<v Speaker 1>the bottom. If it can, then it's a pond. If

0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:27.840
<v Speaker 1>it can't, then it's a lake. But this comes from Mark. Hey, guys,

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:29.520
<v Speaker 1>the answer, I think depends on who you asked. But

0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:33.759
<v Speaker 1>as an ambassador from the land of ten thousand Lakes, Minnesota,

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.840
<v Speaker 1>which is technically and forty two lakes, perhaps I have

0:48:37.880 --> 0:48:40.760
<v Speaker 1>a bit of clout. Most folks would assume the difference

0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:42.920
<v Speaker 1>has something to do with size and depth. It's not

0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:45.360
<v Speaker 1>quite that simple, though. According to a twenty twelve CBS

0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:50.719
<v Speaker 1>News article, retired DNR water supervisor Glenn Yackle suggests that

0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:52.759
<v Speaker 1>a lake needs to be large enough and deep enough

0:48:52.760 --> 0:48:56.040
<v Speaker 1>to allow for wave action to be considered a lake

0:48:56.320 --> 0:48:59.480
<v Speaker 1>that can clear vegetation from its shoreline. Pond, on the

0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:03.360
<v Speaker 1>other hand, lacks this wave action, meaning its shoreline is

0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:07.480
<v Speaker 1>typically surrounded by vegetation without clear boundaries. But guys, it

0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:11.320
<v Speaker 1>gets even more complicated. Government agencies often have regulatory thresholds

0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 1>that lead to discrepancies per state. For example, here in Minnesota,

0:49:16.800 --> 0:49:20.040
<v Speaker 1>with our eight and forty two lakes has fewer lakes

0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:23.960
<v Speaker 1>than Wisconsin. And any Wisconsin I will gleefully point out

0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:26.960
<v Speaker 1>that they have fifteen thousand. But here's where the differences

0:49:26.960 --> 0:49:29.480
<v Speaker 1>come into play. While they do have fifteen thousand lakes,

0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:31.680
<v Speaker 1>their definition includes a body of water with an area

0:49:31.680 --> 0:49:34.799
<v Speaker 1>of at least two point five acres. In Minnesota, our

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:37.600
<v Speaker 1>standards are higher, and to qualify as a lake here

0:49:37.680 --> 0:49:40.800
<v Speaker 1>we must cover at least ten acres. If we lowered

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.640
<v Speaker 1>our threshold to match Wisconsin's, we wouldn't dare dream of it,

0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:46.160
<v Speaker 1>though we'd have over twenty thousand lakes.

0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:49.439
<v Speaker 2>Wow, took. I feel more lake informed than I ever

0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:51.719
<v Speaker 2>have been in my entire life for real.

0:49:52.320 --> 0:49:54.640
<v Speaker 1>That is from Mark Mark's had always pleasure to listen

0:49:54.680 --> 0:49:56.920
<v Speaker 1>to you guys with my boys who are six and

0:49:57.000 --> 0:50:00.680
<v Speaker 1>seven and big fans, and Mark had replied with their names,

0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:03.520
<v Speaker 1>and I'm very frustrated because I cannot find that reply.

0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:06.359
<v Speaker 1>So let me just say Mark and sons of Mark,

0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:07.880
<v Speaker 1>thank you for the sport.

0:50:08.200 --> 0:50:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I can vouch for Chuck Mark. We just

0:50:10.600 --> 0:50:13.240
<v Speaker 2>edited out many minutes of him searching for that email,

0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:14.840
<v Speaker 2>so he really did give it a try.

0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, guys, but they're six and seven, so maybe that's

0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:17.439
<v Speaker 1>for the best.

0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Right. If you want to be like Mark and his

0:50:19.880 --> 0:50:23.319
<v Speaker 2>unnamed sons, you can write to us as well. Send

0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:30.040
<v Speaker 2>us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:50:33.120 --> 0:50:37.319
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:50:37.400 --> 0:50:39.240
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.