1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: should know. And we are giving up right out of 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: the gate on our episode about the Barkley Marathon. 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: That's right, our friend Chad. We want to shout out 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: our friend Chad Crowley, who we talked about before, who 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: was the producer and director and showrunner of our TV 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: show back in the day. I got this idea from 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Chad because we had coffee over the holidays and he 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: is running ultra marathons now, wow, which is a very 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: Chad thing to do. Like he starts running a handful 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: of years ago and then now is running ultras. And 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: I was like, Chad, how long is that? And he 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: said sixty miles generally, And I said, could you run 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: to Athens? He said how far is Athens? And said 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: I can't remember how far? I said, like eighty miles. 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: He said I could run one hundred miles. 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: Wow, But he'd need a ride back. 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: Are you kiddy? He said it might take a while, 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: but I could probably run one hundred miles. And I'm 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: just like floored by this idea that people can do this, 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: and he said, he said, man, you should do a 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: guys should do an episode on the Barkley Marathons, which 25 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: I had heard of before. Oh really, which is this, Yeah, 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: which is this ultra marathon plus a trail run plus 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: in the mountains of northeastern Tennessee that is known for 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: just being a crazy race, a crazy hard race, and 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: having a really unusual origin story and unusual founder and 30 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: just how it's all done. It's just this remarkable story. 31 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: And I agree. 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a really great documentary from twenty seventeen called 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: the Barkley Marathon colon the Race that Eats It's Young, 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: which is a nickname for that race. And there's a 35 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: few people in there who are seasoned trail runners, ultrathonors, 36 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: like people who know their stuff and have done crazy 37 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: things as far as running goes, who are like, this 38 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: is far and away the hardest race on the planet, Like, 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: there's nobody who's doing anything like this, And if you 40 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: think you know what you're doing, you're going to be 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: completely amazed at how far off you are in what 42 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: you thought this is going to be, Like, it's that hard. 43 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a chance to watch it. 44 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good. And there was a guy who 45 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 2: was a Special Operations like I guess a former a 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 2: Special Ops soldier who was like, I've done crazy stuff 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: with my body and this like that did nothing to 48 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: prepare me for this. 49 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really well done. It's on YouTube, and 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: I recommend watching it because it really there's a lot 51 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: of drama that takes place. The year that they did 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: the documentary. I think they did it on twenty twelve 53 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: or twenty thirteen maybe, oh was it and it came 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: out in seventeen, you. 55 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: Said, okay, so yeah, I was confused at what year 56 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: it was. 57 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: I think it was twenty twelve or twenty thirteen, and 58 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: it was. There's a lot of good drama. So we 59 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: don't want to spoil some of the stories that happened, 60 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: but uh, I recommend watching. And here we go with 61 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: Barkley Marathons. 62 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: Oh okay. So the whole thing about Barkley marathons is 63 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: that you can trace them back. I mean you could 64 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: start at the very beginning. We talked about in our 65 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: what was the one crazy marathon episode we did not 66 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: too long ago. 67 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: It's on marathons. 68 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: No, it was on a specific marathon, and I think 69 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: Los Angeles. 70 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. We did want of marathons years ago. 71 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: No, remember the guy who was running the Human Zoos 72 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: at the World's Fair came up with like a he 73 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: called it the Special Olympics Marathon. This was months ago. 74 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: Man, Hey, you can't remember it either, buddy, all right, 75 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: why can't you remember it existed? At least? 76 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: Yes? Anyway, Oh, get this. Apparently we did an entire 77 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: short stuff on Sad's rings and didn't mention it because 78 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: I have no recollection of doing a short stuff on 79 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: Saturn's rings. Do you? 80 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't remember that? 81 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: You do remember we did a saddern episode that came 82 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: out like a few days back. 83 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm so mad at you right now, don't you. We're 84 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: still getting emails on that one. So yes, I do. Okay, 85 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: all right, cool, What LA marathon are you talking about? 86 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: It might not be La, but it was. It was 87 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 2: like just you remember like that one Italian guy I 88 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: think he was running in like oh oh oh, he'd 89 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: stop and eat people's fruit and yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody. 90 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: And there were the two guys from Africa who. 91 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: Are remember that now? 92 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah? It was I can't remember where it was or 93 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: what the name was, what it was? 94 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh boy, people are just screaming at their pod player. 95 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 2: The sad thing is the whole reason I brought that up, Chuck, 96 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: was to say that we went over a lot of 97 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: the origins of marathons in that episode, so we don't 98 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 2: need to do that in this episode. That we just 99 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: did all that and. 100 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: Our Marathons episode. Yeah, anyway, let's not even do that. 101 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: The marathon has been a long a long time. Ultra 102 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: Marathon started in the nineteen seventies, and that's what we're 103 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: really talking about. And this guy Gary Kintrell, aka Lazarus 104 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: Lake or laz he's in his seventies now is he 105 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: is the creator, along with his friend, of the Barkley Marathon, 106 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: whom he named after his friend, a farmer named Barry Barkley. 107 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: In the documentary, very sweetly, over the end credits, they 108 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: ask him with Barry why he named it after Barry, 109 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: and he said, well, he's to help me with a 110 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: lot of races, and I don't know it just spit. 111 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Barkley, he's a farmer, he's never run anything like that. 112 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: And he said, I have no idea why he named 113 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: it after me. 114 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's no real reason, but they're called the 115 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: Barkley Marathons. And Cantrell has an interesting story in that 116 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: he is a former athlete. He's run supposedly over about 117 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand miles in his life, but 118 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: he smokes camel cigarettes. He just floods his body with 119 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: doctor pepper. He's you know, older gentleman now and has 120 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: kind of wrecked his legs from all that running, so 121 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: he hasn't run for a while. But he got interested 122 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: in this as a boy scout in Tennessee as a 123 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: teenager or preteen, I guess when he was started doing 124 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: backpacking trips that he hated until he found out there 125 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: is a great joy in overcoming a hardship and doing 126 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: something tough physically and completing a goal and got kind 127 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: of hooked on that feeling. 128 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. He also apparently really liked the idea that if 129 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: he continued to work at something, he would continue to improve. Yeah, 130 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: that's a big part of he's running. That's a big 131 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: part of running. That's a big part of hiking. It's 132 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: a big part of everything that's hard while yeah exactly, So, yeah, 133 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: he got the bug pretty early on he started running marathons. 134 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: I think in nineteen sixty six. He started running. By 135 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 2: high school, he was running marathon and then he started 136 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: running ultra marathons. And he was there like right at 137 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: the beginning of the ultra marathon craze, which I think 138 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: kicked off in nineteen seventy four with California's Western States 139 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: one hundred. A guy named Gordy Ainsley set that up. 140 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: And so by this time, you know, the ultra marathons 141 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: were starting to catch on, and Gary Kintrell was enough 142 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: of a runner that he knew of these things. But 143 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: he was also married, he was starting to have kids, 144 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: he had a job as an accountant, and he just 145 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: couldn't travel the country to go participate in ultrathons. So 146 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: he started setting his own up around Tennessee. 147 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. They first took the form of what he 148 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: called journey runs, which is this all sounds fun. If 149 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: I was into running, I would do something like this. 150 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: But he and his friends would get together and be like, 151 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: all right, let's run from Knoxville to Nashville, or let's 152 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: run I love the three run. Their idea of a 153 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: through run was either from Alabama or Kentucky running to 154 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: the other just straight through Tennessee. Let's run through the 155 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: state of Tennessee. Right, pretty fun idea they were doing these. 156 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: They led to some other kind of legit races. I 157 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: think one of the two is still around. He called it, 158 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: and he's always had a sense of humor. You can 159 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: tell by the way names these things. The last annual 160 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: Ball State obviously Volunteer State Road Race, which is a 161 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: three hundred and eleven mile run from Missouri to Georgia, 162 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: Georgie exactly ten day cut off time, no comfort stations 163 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: along the way, you have to source all your own 164 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: food and water and shelter along the way. And then 165 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: another one called the Idiots Run, which I don't think 166 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: is around one hundred and twenty three mile gravel, all 167 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: gravel road run. 168 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so bad, that's just such a bad idea. Well, 169 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 2: he called it the Idiots Run for a really good reason. Yeah, 170 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: And that's the whole his whole jam is, like he 171 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: loves coming up with a kind of race that just 172 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: is at the border between the possibility and the impossibility 173 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: of human endurance of what the human body can actually do, 174 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: Like he wants it just inside of that limit so 175 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 2: that you could, if you push yourself enough, complete this race, 176 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: but most people are just not going to be able 177 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: to because it's so close to impossible. 178 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, many many years the Barkley Marathon has 179 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: no finisher at all. Many years no one makes it 180 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: to the fifth loop. There are four loops that will 181 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: get into all this in a second. It's happening more 182 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: and more now, I think just there are more veterans 183 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: that come back that once you kind of know the deal, 184 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: I say, it gets a little easier, but you know, 185 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: a little easier in that it's possible to finish. It's 186 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: never easy, but I think the veterans have an advantage 187 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: for sure. 188 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think I think the astonishment at how 189 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: difficult it is, Yeah, probably takes up a lot of 190 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 2: your mental energy and focus while you're while you're doing 191 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: it for the first time, and that Yeah, once you've 192 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: even tried it before and even dropped out, you probably 193 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: are past that and it's got to be a huge 194 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: leg up totally. So we should talk a little bit 195 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 2: about the whole basis of all this, right or do 196 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 2: you want to take a break? 197 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's talk about where this thing's held right. 198 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, the whole thing is held at Frozen Heads 199 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: State Park. It's named after Yeah, it's named after the 200 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: tallest peak in this state park. It's in Northeastern Tennessee, 201 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 2: which is kind of guess where Northeastern Tennessee is where 202 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: Virginia and North Carolina come together with Tennessee. It's beautiful 203 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: area and this will be in the Cumberland Mountains. And 204 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 2: this particular state park is not like the kind you 205 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 2: just you know, go to everybody goes to on the 206 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 2: weekends for picnic. It's pretty remote. It's three hundred and 207 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: thirty acres, but this three hundred and thirty acre state 208 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 2: park surrounded by twenty four thousand acres of forest land. 209 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: And the whole thing, I guess started with convict leasing. 210 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: So this area is like really dark. 211 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, no totally and if you look at 212 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, they do these aerial shots in the documentary 213 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: of this prison that we're about to talk about, and 214 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: it's just you know, it's in the middle of nowhere, 215 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: like at the bottom of you know, sort of a 216 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: ravine and very inhospitable. I mean, you'd like to think 217 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: about places like Alaska being like you know, some of 218 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: the most inhospitable places in the United States. But I 219 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: mean the mountains of northeastern Tennessee are no joke. 220 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 2: No, And this area is in hospitable because of its 221 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: terrain and in part because of the weather and the elevation. 222 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 223 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: The whole reason there's a prison there is because back 224 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: in the nineteenth century, Tennessee started making money by leasing 225 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: its prisoners convicts to mining company. These coal mining companies 226 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: just make a little extra on the side from forcing 227 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: your prisoners to engage in hard labor. Right. Well, I 228 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 2: think in our man, I need to keep a list 229 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: of all of our episodes, like handy because I can't 230 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: remember the name of it. But do you remember that 231 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: one war, the strike war in the nineteenth century, and 232 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: I think coal mines in uh Madawan Mattawan, Yes, thank you. 233 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: In that episode we talked a lot about what happened 234 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: also in Tennessee's coal mines where the labor was taking 235 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: on management and it was resulting in wars. Well, one 236 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: of the things that resulted out of this in Tennessee 237 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: was that the laborers, the free laborers who worked for 238 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: the coal mining companies, would frequently help the convicts whose 239 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 2: labor was being leased out by the state escape and 240 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 2: so Tennessee was like, well, fine, we're not doing that anymore. 241 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: But undeterred, they just started setting up their own coal 242 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 2: mines and using the prisoners directly instead of leasing them 243 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 2: out exactly. 244 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: And they needed somewhere to put those prisoners, so are workers, 245 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: I guess slash prisoners. So they built a new prison. 246 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: It is called Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary. And in the 247 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties a lot of that land eventually became that 248 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: great conservation area that we were talking about, those twenty 249 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: four thousand acres, and the New Deal era Civilian Conservation 250 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: Corps built a lot of trails. It became a natural area, 251 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, officially in the nineteen seventies. But there are 252 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: these trails there now, not like again, like you said, 253 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: not like a lot of state park trails that you 254 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: go to. A lot of these trails are still pretty rough. 255 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: The prison stayed open. But why we're telling you all 256 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: this is for a couple of reasons. One is, at 257 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: one point in the race, they navigate through a tunnel, 258 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: like a little water channel that goes under the prison, 259 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: and that's part of the race route where you're definitely 260 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: going to get your feet wet. I don't think we 261 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: mentioned you're running through rivers and things, so like wet feet, 262 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: and it's just a part of the challenge of this race. 263 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: But the prison remained open and James Earl Ray, the 264 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: assassin of Martin Luther King Junior, was sent there with 265 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: six other men. He escaped in nineteen seventy seven from 266 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: Brushing Mountain and spent fifty four hours in that rugged terrain, 267 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: eventually being recaptured about eight miles from the prison and 268 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: Lazarus Lake. Old laz Cantrell heard this story. Heard they 269 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: made it only eight miles in that fifty four hours, 270 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: and he said, man, I could travel one hundred miles 271 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: through that terrain in fifty four hours. So he invents 272 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: this race sort of inspired by this. He said that 273 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: he still gets hate mail every year and angry letters 274 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: for people that think it's some sort of tribute to 275 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: James Earl Ray, and he's like, no, it's the opposite. 276 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: It was started because I'm making fun of the fact 277 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: that this guy only made it eight miles. We're doing 278 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: one hundred, one hundred and thirty. 279 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: Really, you want to take a break. 280 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a break. We know the name of 281 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: the marathon, we know where it takes place, we know 282 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: who started it and where it came from. And we'll 283 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: be back with more of the bark of the marathons 284 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: right after this. 285 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: Yes, So, like you said, I think in nineteen seventy seven, 286 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: James Lay escapes and Cantrell lived in the area. Said 287 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: it was big news at the time, so he was 288 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: aware of this, and a few years later he and 289 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: his friend Carl Hen known as raw Dog for reasons 290 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: that I don't want to ask about, they decided. 291 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: It was in nineteen eighty five months you don't know, 292 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: all right, your good point. 293 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: So they decided to hike into the state park. This 294 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: is this is a place where he's like, okay, like, 295 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: we could totally do so many more than eight miles 296 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: and fifty four hours. Let's go check this out and 297 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: have fun. And like you said, most of this area 298 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: are not nature trails where like there's signs posted there's 299 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: a path you can look down and follow, like these 300 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: are hard to find trails that you need to know 301 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: how to use a compass, a contour map, like all 302 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: you have to you have to be good at orienteering 303 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: is what it's called, in addition to hiking and putting 304 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: up with all sorts of terrible just uncomfortable stuff and 305 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: pushing your your limits. So these guys were like, let's 306 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: just go for a fun hike for a day. 307 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they showed up there. There was a park 308 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: ranger that was like, you guys should leave, Like you 309 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: shouldn't be out there. It's like, it's not like you 310 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: think you're gonna get lost, You're gonna get hurt, You're 311 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: gonna need rescue. They ignored him. They did make it through. 312 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: They did an eight mile They. 313 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: Didn't even like, yeah, no his existence. 314 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, he just walked right by. They made this eight 315 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: mile hike, this loop. But it took him a full day, 316 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: which is you know, you should be able to hike 317 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: much more than eight miles in a day. And it 318 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: required a lot of orienteering, like you said, and paying 319 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: attention to that kind of thing. And he said, all right, 320 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: I think I have an idea here for a race. 321 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: Let's make a nearly impossible to finish race. I think 322 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to tell because there's not a 323 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: website for this. You can't get like historical I mean 324 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: people have written about it since then, but you can't 325 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: get like the official website documentation on this race in 326 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: history because it doesn't exist, to keep it very much 327 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: under wraps. So the way he tells it on the documentary, 328 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: it was always supposed to be one hundred miles, but 329 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: no one ever did more than the first three loops 330 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: out of the five. Yeah, I think though maybe this 331 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: first version was shorter. It was about a fifty to 332 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: fifty five mile course. It was held over April Fool's 333 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: Day weekend nineteen eighty six, and the initial cutoff was 334 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: twenty four hours with thirteen participants in zero people finishing. 335 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is just a fifty to fifty five 336 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: mile version, like you said, Officially the current Barkley Marathon 337 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: is one hundred mile, and in reality it's also like 338 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty to one hundred and thirty miles 339 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: based on reports from people who've actually run it. 340 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean he changes the route every year 341 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: a little bit, that's why it varies. But the year 342 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: they did the documentary, it was documented at one hundred 343 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: and thirty and everybody is like, it's not one hundred 344 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: Just stop saying that. 345 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 2: So the first version, like you said, is three loops, 346 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 2: and it wasn't until two years after the first one 347 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: that the somebody completed it. And I mean we're talking 348 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: like dozens of people attempting this, and it took three 349 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: times before one person finished. And there was something about 350 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 2: this that I don't know if we've mentioned yet. Just 351 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 2: this first version, there was an elevation gain of twenty 352 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 2: four thousand feet. So all of the times you went 353 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: up and down, if you count all the ups, it 354 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 2: would equal twenty four thousand feet in elevation that you've 355 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: climbed over these three loops. And that is a lot. 356 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 2: And in fact, the guy who finished frozen D fertile. Yeah, 357 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 2: he was just edfertaw until he won, and from then 358 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 2: on he was frozen D fertile. He thought that there 359 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: was a misprint in Ultra Running magazine that the elevation 360 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: was actually twenty four hundred feet, not twenty four thousand. 361 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess we can go ahead and tell 362 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: everybody the current iteration, like we said, is supposedly one 363 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: hundred but it's really more like one hundred and thirty miles. 364 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: It's got a sixty hour time limit and the elevation 365 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: is the total elevation climb over that race if you 366 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: finish it is sixty thousand feet, which is equivalent to 367 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: hawking to walking up and back down Mount Everest twice. 368 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so yeah, the total elevations one hundred and 369 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 2: twenty thousand, because, yeah, if you go up sixty thousand 370 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: feet and you're coming back down, you got to come 371 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: down sixty thousand feet. Yes, it's harder to climb up, 372 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: but it's not that easy to go down too, especially 373 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: if you're on an incline. And that's a big part 374 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: of it too, is now diving into things like brianart 375 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: and saplings and yeah, it's rough. Like just watching like 376 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: the effects on some of the runner's bodies and like 377 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: what they were coming back to camp looking. 378 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: Like was oh my god, god, I bet some guy 379 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: had like a. 380 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: Head wound and they show him like slipping on rocks 381 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 2: and hitting his forehead. It was really it's nuts what 382 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: these people are doing to themselves. 383 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean their legs are all just because these 384 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: briers they have to go through one part which is 385 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: a really heavy brier area, but every single person's legs 386 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: are just thrashed. 387 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: Like it looks like ground meat. 388 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like disgusting bleeding. Their feet are disgusting and 389 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: blistered and and just riddled with I think the one 390 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: guy that we'll get to the stops, but the one guy, 391 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: they were like, it would take you eight hours to 392 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: fully dry your feet out, so you know you can't. 393 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: You're not gonna get dry feet, which is a big problem. 394 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: And they're basically not sleeping when you when you complete 395 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: a loop, you have what's called an interlooper period where 396 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want. You can take however 397 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: much time you want to get. You can get first aid, 398 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: you can eat, you can drink, you can rest, you 399 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: can change your clothes and socks, you can take a 400 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: nap if you want. But that clock is still running, 401 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: so how long you wait is up to you. I 402 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: think the winner that you said he slept about an 403 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: hour total. So just try staying up and awake for 404 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: sixty hours in a. 405 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: Chair and without drugs. 406 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. These people are doing this and you know, 407 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: we say it's a run, like a lot of this 408 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: is hiking and bouldering and walking and crawling, so it's 409 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: not like they're running the whole time. But it's just brutal. 410 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. One of the other things that 411 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: really kind of gets this across too, is in what 412 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: you said, So you've got sixty hours to finish, and 413 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: from the start that clock's always ticking, right, Yeah, but 414 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: you're going one hundred and thirty miles. So if you 415 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: do the math. Olivia helps us with this, and she 416 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: pointed out that goodness, Yeah, you could sleep for two 417 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: eight hour nights and still finish this course at a 418 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 2: twenty minute mile pace, which you can basically do on 419 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: your hands and knees, and still complete it within the 420 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 2: sixty hour cutoff. So the fact that some people can't 421 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: even finish the first loop, yeah, go to show you 422 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: how difficult this is. That if we were flat, it 423 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 2: would be beyond easy. But those same those same limits, 424 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: the time limit and the length put on this particular 425 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 2: terrain or in this topography is just it changes absolutely everything. 426 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, at this twelve hour time limit per loop 427 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: must have come in after the documentary, right. 428 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that confused me too, because they were finishing in 429 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: like thirteen hours and something like that. I didn't get that. 430 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it must have been a new one. 431 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. So finishing the three loops. If 432 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: you finish three loops, that is considered a fun run, 433 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: and that is a designation and that is a huge accomplishment. Yeah, 434 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: just to finish the fun run. We should add he 435 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: also has a baby Barkley in the Fall, the Berkeley 436 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: Barkeley Fall Classic, which is a fifty k so thirty 437 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: one miles, and that has about four hundred runners, but 438 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: only about thirty five to forty participants are allowed per 439 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: year to compete in this thing because of you know, 440 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: it's out in nature, so that the state won't let 441 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: them have like hundreds of people. Like not a ton 442 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: of people can go watch. It's just like family and 443 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: I think some you know, former winners can be there 444 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's pretty small operation because they 445 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: just can't you know, run rough shot over the area. 446 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: But they have the sixty hours to complete, now twelve 447 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: hours per loop. The first loop is run clockwise. The 448 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: second loop, which is at night, will go counterclockwise, and 449 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: then again day night clockwise counterclockwise. And then this is 450 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: pretty devious, the final fifth loop. If you get there, 451 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: the first person to finish the fourth gets a choice 452 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: which way they want to run, and then they start 453 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: splitting people up, because almost everybody runs with a buddy 454 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: or two. It really really helps to have someone out 455 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: there and they're really helping each other. But at the end, 456 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: he's like, you're gonna lose your buddy, which way do 457 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: you want to run? And the first person will say, 458 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: I'll go clockwise, the next person has to go counterclockwise, 459 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: and then they alternate. So at some point, if they 460 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: finish that fifth loop, they're going to pass their former 461 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: buddy going in the opposite direction. 462 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And in the documentary, Cantrell points out like 463 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: these by this time, these people who had like formed 464 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: serious bonds by running together oh total loops, are now 465 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: direct competitors. Like, now it's a race because they're in 466 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 2: the fifth loop, and whoever's going to finish in what 467 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: time they finish a yeah, yeah, is going to determine 468 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: the actual winner, Like now there's a possible winner, yeah, 469 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: And everything changes. So I don't they probably don't like 470 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: class pans, and then you know they're they're pulled apart, 471 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: you know, sadly when they have to go in different 472 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: directions at that point. 473 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's probably it makes it a lot tougher, 474 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: but I get the idea that if you make it, 475 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: if you're one of the maybe two, maybe three, maximum 476 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: four people that are even on the fifth loop, then 477 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: that's when things get serious. That's when it turns into 478 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: an actual race. 479 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I took it as too. One thing 480 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: that I didn't get I got from context. I didn't 481 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: see it anywhere because I guess it's so obvious. No 482 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: one thought it needed to be spelled out except me. 483 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 2: But it's the same loop, right, Yeah, Okay, so they're 484 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: doing the same loop five times, which is why they 485 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: do it clockwise and counterclockwise and different ones at day 486 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: and night, so that you can't just be like, yep, 487 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 2: I remember this, this is nothing now, I remember exactly 488 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: what the trail is. You're super disoriented the first time, 489 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: but it's not like you have it down pat after 490 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: that first loop necessarily. 491 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it definitely doesn't seem like it gets easier 492 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: because that they were finishing when they were fresh legged 493 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: at loop one, they were finishing in about eight or 494 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: nine hours for the fastest times, and then those fastest 495 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: people were doing like twelve and thirteen hours on the 496 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: next loop through the darkness. Yeah, and we should mention 497 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: the weather. You know, it's with these huge elevation changes. 498 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: You're going to go from temperatures sometimes in April in 499 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: the eighties where it's low to like ten degrees at night. 500 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: They have about one hundred gallons of water they put 501 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: out randomly on the course, like there are no technical 502 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: water stations, but you'll just happen upon a jug of water. 503 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: And Laz said that. You know, one year they were 504 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: one hundred eight pound blocks of ice because it was 505 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: ten degrees at elevation. Yeah, it's just crazy. 506 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 2: I say, we take a break and talk about how 507 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 2: you would get into this race and then what it's 508 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 2: actually like running it. 509 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. 510 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 2: Okay, this is. 511 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: All right, so we're back. The race is about to begin. 512 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: We should point out to the other thing to keep 513 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: in mind is if you quit, quit near the start 514 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: finish line, right, because like a lot of people finish 515 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: like a loop and they're like, I'm out, or maybe 516 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: the two or a lot of people get to that 517 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: third fun run and they say that's good enough for me. 518 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: The one guy in the documentary quit and it took 519 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: him ten hours to navigate back because it's not like 520 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: they send somebody out you don't tap out on radio 521 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: and they come and get you. Yeah, you just decide 522 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore, and then you very slowly 523 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: walk back to the finish line. 524 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. And at some point you might as well be like, well, 525 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 2: at least I guess I'm gonna have to finish the 526 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: first loop. I might as well keep going that direction. 527 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, totally, or if there, I mean, it depends 528 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: on where you are. If you're below the halfway point, 529 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people come back the way they came right. 530 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, So going even back before the start of the race, 531 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 2: you said that the Barkley Marathon has no website, and 532 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: that is intentional. The whole thing is meant to be 533 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 2: kept largely a secret. There's not a website. There's not 534 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: like some information on this is how you apply. You 535 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 2: have to use basically your investigative skills just to figure 536 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 2: out Gary Cantrell's email to email to ask to apply. 537 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: And they make it really really hard to apply for 538 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: this because in part they're just weeding out people who 539 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: don't have even the beginning of the motivation and dedication 540 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: to complete this race. Like if you can't even go 541 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: to this trouble to like, really do your research to 542 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: figure out how to apply. Then don't even bother trying 543 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: to apply. There's no website, no thanks exactly, and if 544 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 2: you do want to imply, you have to cough up 545 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: a dollar sixty. 546 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a non refundable application fee. I think most 547 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: people send in two single dollar bills because he says 548 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: they don't give change. And he every year chooses, you know, 549 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: he chooses a range of people. Some of them are 550 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: very experienced, some of them are random. Every year he 551 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: chooses one human sacrifice that he said the runners even appreciate, 552 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: even at the expense of not getting in themselves. He 553 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: chooses one person that has no business being there. In 554 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: the year of the documentary, that poor guy made it 555 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: six hours, yeah before And I knew as soon as 556 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: that guy headed out in his camouflage cargo pants, I 557 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: was like, this guy, what is he doing? What's he wearing? 558 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: So he didn't make it very far? 559 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: No, he didn't. And he was like, this is six 560 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: hours man, Like he didn't make it very far at all. Now, 561 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 2: and this guy was way more qualified to do it 562 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: than like the average person. Like it wasn't like he 563 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 2: was just some like he went and plopped the guy 564 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: out of mc donald's like mid bite of a big 565 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 2: mac and right through him on the trail. Like this 566 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: guy was in pretty decent shape, and he thought that 567 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 2: he had a chance. It's not like he's like, yeah, 568 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go be the sacrificial human, right right. He 569 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: thought like he was going to try to complete it. 570 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: He didn't even I don't even think he made it 571 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: halfway through the first loop, did he? 572 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: No? I don't think so. 573 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 2: No. 574 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: It was pretty funny and sad. He took it on 575 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: the chin like a like a like a big boy though. 576 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, imagine if he'd started like yelling, you just. 577 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: Brought me out here to make fun of me a 578 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: little bit. More about the application process, everyone knows it 579 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: takes place generally around April Pool's day. They send in 580 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: an essay to get in with a weird prompts, like 581 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: one year it was what's the most important vegetable group? 582 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: One of the women, I think she was in the 583 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: documentary that you're Beverly Abs who by the way, that 584 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: you're completed the fun run so quite an achievement. She 585 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: said she was told to send the application in exactly 586 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: at midnight on Christmas Day in the time zone where 587 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: Lazarus Lake was, so she had to figure out where 588 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: he was at the time. And then she wrote a 589 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: poem as her essay and she got in right. And 590 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: then once you get in, you get a letter that 591 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: says I'm sorry to inform you that you have been accepted. Basically, 592 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: misery awaits you. 593 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the whole, the whole jam. The way that 594 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: it's treated is like you're like, you're not going to finish, 595 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 2: You're a dummy for even trying. There's this weird kind 596 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 2: of push pull going on that Gary Cantrell established basically 597 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: out of the gate that's based on his kind of 598 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 2: impish sense of humor. Yeah, and so that means that like, 599 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: you're just as likely to be abused or mocked when 600 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 2: you like quit as you are to be told like, hey, 601 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: you completed one loop. That's pretty good just in and 602 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: of itself. It just, I guess depends on what his 603 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: mood is right then, and a lot of people like, 604 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: aren't don't really like this guy that much? They like, 605 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: if you don't, if you're not tuned into his sense 606 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: of humor, you're probably not gonna like him. You might 607 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: find him obnoxious or you know, I might find him 608 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 2: just mean, but if you are tuned into it, I 609 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 2: think he's he's pretty funny. Like reading about him on 610 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: paper and reading interviews with him, I was like, I 611 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 2: don't really like this guy. Yeah, and then I saw 612 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 2: him in the documentary. I'm like, oh, okay, saying he's 613 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: just hard to translate into a description, and when you 614 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: see him talk yourself, you're like, yeah, he's fine. 615 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's He's one of the great eccentrics of the world. 616 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: And sometimes those people are hard to pin down, you know, 617 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: because they'll fit into a box. 618 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: I know. 619 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: But he has to write some other fun things. If 620 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: you're a first time runner, you bring a license plate 621 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: from your home state or home country and he makes 622 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: these cool signs out of them and hangs them up. 623 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: If you have to bring a gift as well, if 624 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: you are part of the race. If you are a 625 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: first time runner, you have to bring an article of clothing. 626 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: And the documentary was very funny. He said it kind 627 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: of depends what he needs. One year it was a 628 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: bunch of white ox for shirts. Another year it was socks, 629 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: another year was flannel shirts, and then if you have 630 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: finished the race and you come back to race again, 631 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: you have to bring him a pack of camel cigarettes. 632 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the camel cigarettes play a big role because 633 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 2: the start of the race is marked officially by him 634 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: lighting a cigarette. So everybody's standing there at this gate 635 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 2: that's the official starting line for the race, and just 636 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 2: standing there waiting for him to light the cigarette. And 637 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: he finally does and it's like a random time. I 638 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 2: think it was like eight to eleven am when the 639 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 2: whole thing started, and he lights a cigarette and soon 640 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 2: everybody takes off. 641 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you get accepted, you know what day it's 642 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: going to be on. You go, you camp out in 643 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: the campground and you're just sort of waiting for him 644 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: to blow the conck. He blows a conk sometime between 645 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: midnight and noon on the Saturday of that weekend. You 646 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: don't know when it's coming. So if he blows it 647 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: at you know, seven am or sometime in the more, 648 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: you're up all night. You're not getting sleep because you're 649 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: so amped up and ready for this and apprehensive because 650 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: you don't know when it starts again. He's just sort 651 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: of messing with people. Yeah, and so when he decides 652 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: to blow the conk. He blows the conk. That means 653 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: you have one hour and everybody you know starts getting 654 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: ready to go. At that point there is no prize. 655 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: We should also mention the prize is just finishing this thing. 656 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's bragging rights for sure. Like you 657 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 2: if you told any ultra marathon runner, you know, trail 658 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: runner that you completed the Darkly Marathon, like they would 659 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 2: drop to their knees and start kissing your rings. 660 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets a big. 661 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: Deal to have finished this. And yet there's also like 662 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 2: from Gary Cantrell's perspective, from everything that I've read, the 663 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: way that he describes it as like he's giving people 664 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 2: an opportunity to push themselves to their maximum possible limits. 665 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 2: Because remember this race is intended to be just inside 666 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 2: the possible human the possibility of the human body. Right, Yeah, 667 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 2: so if you can complete it, like you're doing all 668 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 2: sorts of things that you never thought you were capable 669 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 2: of it, Like your mental endurance is among the greatest 670 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 2: of people walking around. And so yeah, it's way more 671 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 2: than just bragging rights, Like you're if you're into bragging rights, 672 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 2: you're probably not even going to finish the first loop, 673 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 2: Like if that's why you're doing it and you somehow 674 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 2: got accepted, it's not going to translate. So these people 675 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 2: don't care about bragging rights, even though they would have 676 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 2: bragging rights for life. 677 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: Totally. I like that one dude, the long hair guy 678 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: from Arizona in the documentary that that was his first one. 679 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 680 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: He just had a cool vibe. Like everyone had a 681 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: pretty cool vibe. Like it's a really as a great 682 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: spirit of helping one another out. And during the interloper 683 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: periods where they're which is by the way, the only 684 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: time they're allowed to have their sort of aid crew 685 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: with them, like they don't you know, they can't get 686 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: helped along the way. So this is when they see 687 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: other people and there's other former winners there, and when 688 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: people drop out, they stick around and they're really helping 689 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: people get their feet together and they're giving them dry 690 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: socks and feeding them and it's just a real great 691 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: spirit of sort of camaraderie and helping one and out 692 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,919 Speaker 1: another out. It feels like, yeah, it's pretty cool. 693 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, because as people get pared down, the people around 694 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 2: them are like they want to see somebody succeed then. 695 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, pretty cool, real quick. What else as 696 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: far as housekeeping, No GPS, that's a big one. They 697 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: can wear a little cheap or they're given a little 698 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: cheap watch. And I think they banned altimeters in twenty 699 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: fourteen or twelve or something. 700 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: Something like that. Either way, you're stripped down to the 701 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 2: bear essentials. Yeah, and you have a map, but you 702 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 2: don't have a copy of their map. They give you 703 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 2: the master map to use to trace the route onto 704 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 2: your own map. He traced it incorrectly. Well, that's ts 705 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 2: for you. And people do get lost like a lot. 706 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 2: There was one guy who oh, man, don't remember what 707 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: year it was, Oh, in two thousand and six. Yeah, 708 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 2: this guy wandered off the course and spent thirty two 709 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 2: hours trying to get back. Man, And in the end 710 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 2: he only did like two miles of the actual course. 711 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 2: He wandered so far off course. So the way he 712 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 2: put it, he did sixteen hour miles in this race. 713 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,479 Speaker 1: God, I felt so bad for that guy. 714 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, And then what else. 715 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: Chuck, this isn't And to me, this is kind of 716 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: one of the coolest things because the whole time, until 717 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: we had gotten to this part, I was like, well, 718 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: how do they know that people are running that route 719 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: because they're not staked out along the way. In the 720 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: documentary they had some people staked out a little bit 721 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: just to get some footage, but it's not like they 722 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: have people at checkpoints that are making sure they're on 723 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: the route and all that. He did something pretty lo 724 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: fi and genius, which was he puts ten books out 725 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: ten to twelve depending on the year, at different points 726 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: along the way, and you have to rip the page 727 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: out corresponding to your BIB number, and that is the 728 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: proof that you ran the real route. You have to 729 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: show up with depending on how many books, ten or 730 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: eleven pages when you touch that start finish line, and 731 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: you have to turn them over to Cantrell and he 732 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: has to look them over and verify it. 733 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm guessing that they they are the books 734 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 2: in the same place every time. 735 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: Ah, that I'm not sure about. 736 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 2: But I do know that they hide them. They're not 737 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 2: just always out in plain sight. Like the one of 738 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 2: the things you're having to stay oriented, you're having to 739 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: push your body and endure, and then you're also at 740 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 2: the same time having to make sure you don't trop 741 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 2: past one of the books. So you have to backtrack 742 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 2: and get the page out. 743 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the one guy the year of the 744 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: documentary that won and set the record. I think he 745 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: said he spent a couple of hours looking for the book. 746 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: I would lose my mind. Man. 747 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 748 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 2: And also if you're like, well, how do you get 749 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: the same page eleven times? Do you get a different 750 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 2: BIB number? Free loop? So you would be tearing out 751 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 2: a different page each time. 752 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think there was a story just last year. 753 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: In fact, there was a French runner who got to 754 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: the final loop to find that a book was gone. 755 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: There was a day hiker that thought the race was 756 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: over and took the book as a memento, so he's like, 757 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: what do I do? He completed the race and when 758 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: he got back to the gate, they had turned the 759 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: book in, so they counted that. 760 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 2: That's awesome. Yeah. I've read about one runner too, who 761 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 2: I think this. I don't remember what year was, maybe 762 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen or seventeen. He made it. He showed up 763 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 2: six seconds after time. Oh my god. But he had 764 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 2: all his pages and they said like he was just 765 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 2: collapsed on the ground and he said, I have all 766 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 2: my pages. But he didn't make it by six seconds. 767 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: You know, I bet that he feels a great sense 768 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: of accomplishment, though I would think, so sure finished that 769 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: thing six seconds, be damned. You know, you'd have. 770 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 2: To be one hell of a perfectionist to be like, 771 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,320 Speaker 2: well I failed technically, Yeah, for sure. 772 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: I think there was one more piece of housekeeping here. 773 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: Oh that's right. When a runner gives up, a guy 774 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: named Dave Hen, who is a race volunteer, plays taps 775 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: on a bugle. 776 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's Carl raw Dog Hen's son. 777 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: Oh is it it is raw Dog Junior? 778 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, Little raw Dog. 779 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: Or the third Yeah, he said. 780 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,439 Speaker 2: He said that he thinks the reason why is because 781 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 2: it's just one final punishment for you from Gary Cantrell 782 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 2: to basically be humiliated with taps. And on the on 783 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 2: the other side, some runners when they finish, especially when 784 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 2: they actually complete the race, he has one of those staples, 785 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 2: easy buttons, Yeah, that they press and when you press it, 786 00:41:58,239 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 2: a voice goes that was easy. 787 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. It was really fun to watch. It was someone 788 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: just like on their last leg literally, like you're bleeding 789 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: at the legs and he's like hit the button right 790 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: because that was easy. 791 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. The guy who was on the documentary was I 792 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 2: think his name was John Kelly. He finished second of 793 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 2: two I think that year, maybe three, and he they 794 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,879 Speaker 2: show him and he's just totally out of it, like 795 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 2: he's sitting on a chair with people surrounded surrounding him 796 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 2: talking and yeah, yeah, he's just in another world, like 797 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 2: totally out of his skull because he hadn't slept at 798 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 2: all like that whole time. 799 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, sixty hours. 800 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 2: It's crazy. 801 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: Man. The one guy that couldn't in the documentary that 802 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: tapped out and was just like crying. 803 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 2: Oh I don't remember him, which one? 804 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: Uh boy, that was tough. He had kind of dark, 805 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: curly hair and he was pretty pumped up going into 806 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 1: it about his chances and yeah, I mean, what can 807 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: you say about a race where like whatever, probably ninety 808 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: eight percent of the people had never been right, maybe 809 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:02,919 Speaker 1: more maybe ninety nine. 810 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 2: That was a well. Yeah, so I think officially twenty 811 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 2: out of one thousand plus people have finished. So I'm 812 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 2: sure we have some sixth graders who can calculate that 813 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 2: for us and send it in. 814 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: Let me see last I'm sorry. This year there were 815 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,320 Speaker 1: a record five people completed it, and that is I 816 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: think the maximum before that may have been three, maybe four, 817 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: but usually it's one, maybe two or zero last. I'm sorry. 818 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: This year a woman was a finisher for the first time. Yes, 819 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: me and Paris or Perry. I don't know how she 820 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 1: pronounces it. She came in two minutes short of the 821 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: deadline to finish that race. 822 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so she finished with two minutes last. 823 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: Right, that's incredible. 824 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. And one of the reasons it's 825 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 2: incredible is because Gary Cantrell. This is another reason a 826 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,399 Speaker 2: lot of people don't like him. For years and years 827 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 2: and years, he would say publicly, there's no woman out 828 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 2: there who could possibly finish this race. Yes, And you know, 829 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,439 Speaker 2: he was criticized for saying that kind of thing because 830 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 2: there's plenty of amazing women marathonors and ultrath honors and 831 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 2: trail runners. And he defended it by basically saying, if 832 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 2: a woman could defeat this, it would be exactly the 833 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 2: kind of woman who would need to hear somebody say 834 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 2: something like a woman would never be able to complete this. 835 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, got yeah, And I don't know if 836 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm being an apologist, but I got the idea that 837 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: a lot of that was sort of goating. Yes, someone 838 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 1: to finish, Like that's how I took it too. Yeah, 839 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: Like deep down he's like, there's going to be a 840 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: woman that's going to do this, and maybe I need 841 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,439 Speaker 1: to stoke the fire a little bit, right. 842 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 2: So finally, yes, I think Jasmine Paris's She's a brit 843 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,879 Speaker 2: who teaches at the University of Scotland. Did you say 844 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 2: that part? 845 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:49,800 Speaker 1: No, I also said Jasmin Peris. 846 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 2: I know that was just correcting you. Oh, I'm sure 847 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 2: it was Jasmine per Jesmond Pieri. 848 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: Who else? In twenty twenty four, a mechanic engineer named 849 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: Jared Campbell became the first four time finisher. He's in 850 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,760 Speaker 1: the documentary and an interesting just sort of side note 851 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: in this and Lyvia pointed out, but then when you 852 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: watch the documentary it really hits home is that it 853 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: seems like this race and ultra marathoning and this sort 854 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: of endurancing attracts people of very, very high intelligence. I 855 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: felt like every person they interviewed were like, I'm an engineer, 856 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a scientist. And they talked to almost 857 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: called him Barkley to Lazarus about this to Cantrell in 858 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: the documentary and he said, yeah, he said those are 859 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: the achievers in life. Those are the people that go 860 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: to graduate school and go to get their doctoral thesis, 861 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,799 Speaker 1: and people who set hard goals and accomplish them. It 862 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,439 Speaker 1: just sort of fits. And I never really thought about 863 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: that that tie. But I don't think there's a lot 864 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: of dumb dumbs that do stuff like this. 865 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 2: No, although even though dumb dumb to do. 866 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: It, it's a weird dichotomy. 867 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 2: Yep, I say. We finished on the story of John 868 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 2: Fega Veresi. 869 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: All right, let's hear it. 870 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 2: He was a runner in oh, I don't know what 871 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 2: year he ran, but he was an experienced ultra marathon runner. 872 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 2: He participated in the Bad Water ultra marathon, which runs 873 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,440 Speaker 2: through Death Valley one hundred and thirty five miles. Yeah, 874 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,919 Speaker 2: and he was like, this is that's nothing I'm paraphrasing. Yeah, 875 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 2: I'm sure he wouldn't say this, but he was basically 876 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 2: like that, you can't even really compare the two. And 877 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 2: he completed it, and he was so incoherent from sleep 878 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 2: deprivation that he apparently didn't remember like downing a pint 879 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 2: of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, like at the finish line. 880 00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 2: He had no idea that he'd done that, and he 881 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 2: spent the next day and a half just laying around 882 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 2: the campground recovering. So after that time he's like, all right, 883 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,680 Speaker 2: I guess I'll drive home, and he started falling asleep 884 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 2: on the way home, so he had to stop and 885 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 2: check himself into a hotel, where he slept for an 886 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 2: another sixteen hours. 887 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: Man, that's called human exhaustion. 888 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I say we quietly close the door and 889 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,280 Speaker 2: leave John to his slumber and go on to a listener. Mayl. 890 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,439 Speaker 1: I do want to shout out the record though, Brett Mahn, 891 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: who is one or a few times now, I think 892 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,359 Speaker 1: he's a physicist. The record, current record right now is 893 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: lies with Brett at fifty two hours, three minutes and 894 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: eight seconds. Very nice, just incredible. 895 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 2: You woke John up. That's right. 896 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 1: Sorry, John, come back and sleep. Here's your chubby hobby. 897 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 2: That's the best. 898 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,320 Speaker 1: I can't find it anymore. 899 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:50,279 Speaker 2: I can't either. 900 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: It's people say it exists. I get pictures occasionally emails, 901 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: but it doesn't exist in Atlanta. 902 00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 2: That's said. What did Alena do to be so punished? 903 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't need ice cream anymore anyway, 904 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: Which is the saddest part of this story. All right, 905 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this a lake versus pond. We got 906 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: quite a few emails, by the way, I want to 907 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: mention one differentiator we saw said that the difference they 908 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,640 Speaker 1: heard between lake versus pond is if sunlight can reach 909 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: the bottom. If it can, then it's a pond. If 910 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: it can't, then it's a lake. But this comes from Mark. Hey, guys, 911 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: the answer, I think depends on who you asked. But 912 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: as an ambassador from the land of ten thousand Lakes, Minnesota, 913 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 1: which is technically and forty two lakes, perhaps I have 914 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,760 Speaker 1: a bit of clout. Most folks would assume the difference 915 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: has something to do with size and depth. It's not 916 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 1: quite that simple, though. According to a twenty twelve CBS 917 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: News article, retired DNR water supervisor Glenn Yackle suggests that 918 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: a lake needs to be large enough and deep enough 919 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,040 Speaker 1: to allow for wave action to be considered a lake 920 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: that can clear vegetation from its shoreline. Pond, on the 921 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: other hand, lacks this wave action, meaning its shoreline is 922 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: typically surrounded by vegetation without clear boundaries. But guys, it 923 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,320 Speaker 1: gets even more complicated. Government agencies often have regulatory thresholds 924 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: that lead to discrepancies per state. For example, here in Minnesota, 925 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 1: with our eight and forty two lakes has fewer lakes 926 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: than Wisconsin. And any Wisconsin I will gleefully point out 927 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 1: that they have fifteen thousand. But here's where the differences 928 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: come into play. While they do have fifteen thousand lakes, 929 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: their definition includes a body of water with an area 930 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: of at least two point five acres. In Minnesota, our 931 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: standards are higher, and to qualify as a lake here 932 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,800 Speaker 1: we must cover at least ten acres. If we lowered 933 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 1: our threshold to match Wisconsin's, we wouldn't dare dream of it, 934 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: though we'd have over twenty thousand lakes. 935 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,439 Speaker 2: Wow, took. I feel more lake informed than I ever 936 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 2: have been in my entire life for real. 937 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,640 Speaker 1: That is from Mark Mark's had always pleasure to listen 938 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: to you guys with my boys who are six and 939 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 1: seven and big fans, and Mark had replied with their names, 940 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: and I'm very frustrated because I cannot find that reply. 941 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,359 Speaker 1: So let me just say Mark and sons of Mark, 942 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:07,880 Speaker 1: thank you for the sport. 943 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,480 Speaker 2: Yes, and I can vouch for Chuck Mark. We just 944 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,240 Speaker 2: edited out many minutes of him searching for that email, 945 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,840 Speaker 2: so he really did give it a try. 946 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: Sorry, guys, but they're six and seven, so maybe that's 947 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:17,439 Speaker 1: for the best. 948 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 2: Right. If you want to be like Mark and his 949 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 2: unnamed sons, you can write to us as well. Send 950 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 2: us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 951 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 952 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,319 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 953 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.