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Speaker 1: So I wanted to drop the Justin Baldoni episode again because,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, when I was approached about him coming on,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know much about him.

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Speaker 2: So I did some research on him.

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Speaker 1: And I was impressed by him, and I enjoyed our interview.

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Speaker 1: I thought he was likable. I thought it was interesting.

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Speaker 1: I wished it was in person because it was a

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Speaker 1: while ago, but I remember enjoying it and liking it.

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Speaker 1: If I don't like something, it absolutely jumps off the page,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember him being pleasant and likable, and truthfully,

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Speaker 1: I want to listen to it again. I want to

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Speaker 1: listen to him tell me his story again through the

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Speaker 1: lens of what's happening today, and him being so passionate

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Speaker 1: about this domestic violence topic, and this movie it ends

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Speaker 1: with us, that's getting a lot of attention, whether negative

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Speaker 1: or positive. It is disruptive and it is bringing attention

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Speaker 1: to domestic violence. I did grow up in a violent household,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very interested in this topic now, and he's

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Speaker 1: really trying to stay connected to the meaning of the movie,

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Speaker 1: and he's really focusing his press on raising awareness for

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Speaker 1: domestic violence. And so now I just keep thinking about

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Speaker 1: the interview and I would like to listen to it

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Speaker 1: again and think about it through the lens of him

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Speaker 1: today as a director and an actor in a movie

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Speaker 1: about such an important topic, particularly to women. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is actor, director, producer Justin Balde. You might have

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Speaker 1: seen him on the hit TV show Jane the Virgin

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Speaker 1: as Raphael, or you might know his work behind the camera,

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Speaker 1: including the feature film Five Feet Apart Clouds or award

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Speaker 1: winning documentary My Last Days. Beyond making a name as

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Speaker 1: an all around filmmaker, Justin remains busy as a father,

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Speaker 1: podcast host, and author. His work often tackles the culture

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Speaker 1: of toxic masculinity as he aims to redefine what it

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Speaker 1: is to be a man in today's society. Justin co

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Speaker 1: founded a production company called Wayfarer Studios and started a

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Speaker 1: nonprofit of the same name aim to serve the unhoused

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Speaker 1: community in Los Angeles. I can't wait to talk through

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Speaker 1: Justin's journey in entertainment, entrepreneurship, and sharing.

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Speaker 3: Love for your community. You guys will leave here feeling

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Speaker 3: inspired by today's show.

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Speaker 2: Hope you enjoy. So.

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Speaker 3: How did you get into acting? Was it something you

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Speaker 3: always wanted to do? Did you fall into it. Are

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Speaker 3: you passionate about it? What is that part of your life?

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Speaker 4: I'm probably not going to give you these normal answers here.

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Speaker 2: There is no normal any Wars show. There's no normal

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Speaker 2: bunch of crazy.

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Speaker 4: I never I never really thought that I was going

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Speaker 4: to become an actor. I didn't have the self confidence.

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Speaker 4: I was a bit of an ugly duckling. My dad

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Speaker 4: was in the entertainment business growing up, and it was

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Speaker 4: just felt so far away for me. So when I

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Speaker 4: moved to Los Angeles, really it was for sports. From Oregon.

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Speaker 4: I took an acting class and I really liked it.

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Speaker 4: But I honestly took an acting class because I had

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Speaker 4: no idea what the hell I was going to do

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Speaker 4: with my life. I didn't know. I wasn't I was

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Speaker 4: either going to be a psychologist or an actor. I

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Speaker 4: wanted to be a filmmaker. Was that was what I

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Speaker 4: really wanted to be. And then I'd found myself After

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Speaker 4: a pretty devastating breakup when I was about nineteen twenty moving,

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Speaker 4: I moved into this tiny office building. I slept on

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Speaker 4: a couch in my dad's office. He kept his tiny

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Speaker 4: office and in that building there was a manager that

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Speaker 4: aked me if I was an actor, and I said no,

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Speaker 4: but i'd I'd be very open to be. As it

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Speaker 4: turns out, he was hitting on me. He became my manager.

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Speaker 4: We ended up parting ways, but I started working right away,

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Speaker 4: and wow, and I didn't know what I was doing.

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Speaker 4: I learned how to act on sets. It was terrible.

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Speaker 2: I doubt that you have to have something to be

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Speaker 2: to get give.

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Speaker 4: I think I I tried. I think I just maybe

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Speaker 4: looked unique. I don't know, but I uh, but I

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Speaker 4: learned and I am And really I just knew. I

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Speaker 4: knew I wanted to be of service in some capacity.

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Speaker 4: Faith has been a huge part of my life. But

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Speaker 4: now what I joke about when everyone asked me, like,

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Speaker 4: did you always want to be an actor or a director?

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Speaker 4: You know, I look back and I'm like, so much

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Speaker 4: of this was really just a trauma response of my

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Speaker 4: wanting to be loved and appreciated and valued and seen,

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Speaker 4: thinking that, oh, if I got on TV, then maybe

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Speaker 4: all those people that were mean to me would appreciate me.

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Speaker 4: Or if I just get you know, if I just

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Speaker 4: had that car or that so much of so much

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Speaker 4: of my especially in my early life, was driven unconsciously

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Speaker 4: by a lot of those things. So I've just been

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Speaker 4: unpacking a lot of that and it's informed the way

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Speaker 4: that I work now and the things that I do

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Speaker 4: and when I've focus my time on.

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Speaker 3: But are you passionate about acting now and being an actor?

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Speaker 3: Do you actively work really hard to get roles that

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Speaker 3: seem interesting to you?

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Speaker 4: No? I stopped acting, so you're not acting.

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Speaker 2: Anymore at all. Period. You don't want to act at all.

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Speaker 4: It's not that I don't want to act. I just

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Speaker 4: I'm somebody that So I started a studio. I raised

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Speaker 4: a large amount of money and we're financing movies and

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Speaker 4: television shows now. Wayfairer right, wayfair studios. Yeah, and I direct.

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Speaker 4: So I haven't acted since Jane the Virgin, which has

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Speaker 4: been three and a half years now.

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Speaker 3: And there wouldn't be a role that you would create

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Speaker 3: or director you'd think that would be.

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Speaker 4: The best there is. Yeah, I am. I'm there is

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Speaker 4: a role that I'm going to take on for a

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Speaker 4: movie we're going to finance. But it's one of these

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Speaker 4: things where I don't I don't wake up thinking about it. No,

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Speaker 4: answer your question, It's not like it's a huge passion

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Speaker 4: It's more like there are days that I wake up

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Speaker 4: when I feel like, oh, I'm drawn to it, and

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Speaker 4: then there are days that I wake up when I'm

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Speaker 4: much more drawn to the creative process of filmmaking or

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Speaker 4: simply producing or just writing, or there are days when

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Speaker 4: I just want to be focused on the business aspect

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Speaker 4: of my work or the foundation whatever it is. I

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Speaker 4: don't have like a one thing that I just I

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Speaker 4: get it.

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Speaker 3: I really get it. I literally get it more than

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Speaker 3: most people. I don't either, and I just do what

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Speaker 3: I think. Yeah, I do a lot of things, not

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Speaker 3: because you know, someone said to me today, do you

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Speaker 3: want to continue with having a production company and really

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Speaker 3: focus on that? And I know that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people would give me money to do that, and I

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Speaker 3: could do, And I say, I don't really want to

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Speaker 3: do that, Like I don't. I kind of just do

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Speaker 3: what I want to do and then if I really

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Speaker 3: like it, I'll execute it. But if I don't, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't out how much money there is.

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Speaker 2: I just don't do it.

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Speaker 3: And it's so funny because people like you and like myself,

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Speaker 3: people think that we have this big, grand chess board plan.

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Speaker 3: I am aware of the board always and I but

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Speaker 3: it's almost like fantasizing in your mind, like that will happen,

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Speaker 3: and then that will happen, and this will happen, and

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Speaker 3: I am planning, but it's not really a plan. It's

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Speaker 3: sort of just like a game in my mind. Does

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Speaker 3: that make any sense?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? No, no, no, for sure, I think of it. I

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Speaker 4: think of it a little bit like I always say,

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Speaker 4: I'm kind of a feather in the wind, going wherever

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Speaker 4: God takes me, and.

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Speaker 3: So you are more spiritual about it than I am.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't want to do that, so I will.

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Speaker 4: I think that the same principles. I think the same

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Speaker 4: principle applies. I think that it is in many ways

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Speaker 4: a game, and I think this conversation also is like

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Speaker 4: we can't take the privilege out of it, which is

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Speaker 4: like how blessed? How blessed are we to be able

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Speaker 4: to choose so that it's not feaster or famine. Although

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Speaker 4: I will admit that the feasterre famine still live inside

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Speaker 4: of me and govern some of the rules. Even though

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Speaker 4: I have plenty, there's still this part of me that

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Speaker 4: thinks I have nothing, but that comes from having nothing, right, No,

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Speaker 4: I get.

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Speaker 3: It well, that comes from having nothing. But also you

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Speaker 3: have the luxury and the privilege now of choosing, because

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Speaker 3: back then you had no choice, you had to do anything.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I had my five hundred dollars car with

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Speaker 3: a cracked windshield and was broken, panicked and alone in

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Speaker 3: a family. So you did all that to then now

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Speaker 3: be able to say, I don't want to do X, Y.

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Speaker 4: And Z exactly. And I also think it lives in us,

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Speaker 4: you know, generationally, I you know, half my family's Jewish,

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Speaker 4: and so I have you know, the Holocaust in me

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Speaker 4: and the Great Depression from my grandparents and what they

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Speaker 4: taught my mom and scarcity, and you know, I think

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Speaker 4: that lives in us to a certain extent and informed

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Speaker 4: some of those things and has made me like extra

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Speaker 4: fast on the hamster wheel. I talk a lot about

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Speaker 4: this with my wife, which is what is enough in

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Speaker 4: this society? What is enough? Is when is it enough?

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Speaker 4: How much money do I need to make? What do

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Speaker 4: I need to any Instagram followers? How many movies do

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Speaker 4: I need to make? Is there a role that would

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Speaker 4: make me feel enough? And when you dig into it,

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Speaker 4: you don't you realize there is no number, There's no thing.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely no Well, there could be a number, and then

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Speaker 3: after that number, just because that's also part of the game.

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Speaker 3: It's not really it's not a number that really matters

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Speaker 3: or really means that you're done. But then after that

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Speaker 3: the rest is grave. You're playing with the houses money.

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Speaker 3: You can choose to do what you want. That's and

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Speaker 3: I mean metaphorical money. It's funny that you're talking with

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Speaker 3: this because I'm at that place now. I've been successful.

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Speaker 3: I just told an apartment in the city, and I

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Speaker 3: keep taking things off the board that are very lucrative

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Speaker 3: and that aren't even that much time to spend that

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Speaker 3: I just even the five seconds on it.

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Speaker 2: I don't like it.

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Speaker 3: Are the people that I have to work with, I

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Speaker 3: don't like them, or I don't like the way they

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Speaker 3: work or their culture, and I just say no. And

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Speaker 3: it's literally a lot of money. It's been millions of

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Speaker 3: dollars in situations, and to say no is very liberating,

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Speaker 3: and say more is not more is very very freeing.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like you're protecting your time and your energy

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Speaker 4: right now more than you are valuing making more money.

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Speaker 4: And that's an important it's a privilege to be able

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Speaker 4: to be in that place. To do that, and then

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Speaker 4: a really important step I think in all of our

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Speaker 4: journey is when we really take a step back and

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Speaker 4: you look at it. Time is our most valuable asset.

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Speaker 2: I say it all the time.

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Speaker 4: It is the one thing that we can never get back,

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Speaker 4: and that is ticking away, and we have to be

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Speaker 4: really mindful of how we are spending our time. It's

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Speaker 4: not time. It's not that equation of time equals money. No,

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Speaker 4: not at all, and far worse than that. It's time

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Speaker 4: is priceless.

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Speaker 3: Well, and your relationship to time evolves because it used

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Speaker 3: to be for me and it still is in a way.

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Speaker 3: I stack work so I want to if I'm putting

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Speaker 3: some eyelashes on, I want to do five things that day,

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Speaker 3: and then I don't want to do things for days.

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Speaker 3: But it used to be that I would stack then

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Speaker 3: to be with my daughter. So I was totally present

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Speaker 3: with my daughter and totally present with work. But there

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Speaker 3: was no time with myself.

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Speaker 2: It's no me.

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Speaker 3: It's just you're doing that. You're doing that, You're doing this,

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Speaker 3: so you could do more of that, but there was

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Speaker 3: no just me, like being like a bowl of oatmeal.

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Speaker 3: And I wanted that, you know, because being doing meat

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Speaker 3: as a mean doing yoga, doing a massad like it

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Speaker 3: just means like laying and staring at the television.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very meditative.

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Speaker 4: Truthfully, as you know, it's hard. It's very hard for

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Speaker 4: people to do nothing. It's one of the things that's

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Speaker 4: come up for me in my healing journey. It's antithetical

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Speaker 4: doing nothing right. You don't you put those two kind

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Speaker 4: of things together. It's a verb else doing right.

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Speaker 2: That's funny, and that's funny, and.

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Speaker 4: It's but it's really been important for me to practice

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Speaker 4: that that's funny.

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Speaker 2: Doing something is the opposite of done with nothing.

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Speaker 4: That's interesting. The world always tells me like, hey, you

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Speaker 4: have to be doing something because I believe in a system,

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Speaker 4: a patriarchal system, if you will, our worth is tied

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Speaker 4: to our productivity. So if I'm not doing anything, i

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Speaker 4: am I am trained, i am brainwashed. I've been built

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Speaker 4: in a way in this system that tells me that

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Speaker 4: I don't have value. Why would I ever take care

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Speaker 4: of myself? Why would you ever take care of yourself?

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Speaker 4: Althany if if the world has told you by doing nothing,

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Speaker 4: it means you're not being productive and you're wasting your time, right,

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Speaker 4: how are we valuing time? Is really what's important.

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Speaker 3: Well, also, I know I'm you're very cause driven, as

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Speaker 3: you mentioned, and you work, you've a foundation, and philanthropy

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Speaker 3: is important to you as it is to me. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: it feels like a sham because it's just another transference

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Speaker 3: of doing business.

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Speaker 2: It's just not for profit.

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Speaker 3: So while it's incredible and I'm so proud that we

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Speaker 3: have an effort in Ukraine that's literally never been done

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Speaker 3: before in history, unprecedented, it's so quickly for hundreds of

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Speaker 3: millions of dollars of aid, but I've treated it like

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Speaker 3: a business because it's so it doesn't So sometimes my

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Speaker 3: fiance will feel guilty telling me, like it's a lot,

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Speaker 3: because you can't say that to someone who's saving lives

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Speaker 3: and helping people. But he's seeing the tax that it

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Speaker 3: takes on me. So you're giving, but it's still like

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Speaker 3: not a sham, you know what I'm saying, Like you're

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Speaker 3: still working.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, for sure. That's why I think it's important

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Speaker 4: to mix philanthropy with what I call secret service, which

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Speaker 4: is you are physically doing things on the ground that

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Speaker 4: nobody knows about. You don't talk about it. You don't

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Speaker 4: post it, you don't share it with anybody, maybe your fyance,

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Speaker 4: your kids, don't even know. But there's a part of

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Speaker 4: every human being that lights up when we are of service.

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Speaker 4: And true service has no other benefit except for who

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Speaker 4: that person is serving. It's not for you now. The

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Speaker 4: way God designed us is that, yeah, it feels good

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Speaker 4: to be of service, so we are supposed to do it.

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Speaker 4: But I think oftentimes we can get disconnected from the

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Speaker 4: actual cause and be on the ground. And sometimes it's

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Speaker 4: been really helpful for me to actually just go and

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Speaker 4: have a conversation with somebody who's unhoused again like I

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Speaker 4: did ten years ago, and hear their story and their

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Speaker 4: pain and what they're up to, and see and connect

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Speaker 4: with them and look in their eyes and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is why I'm doing it, Or physically talk to

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Speaker 4: somebody who I've helped or who who needs help without

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Speaker 4: ever making it a thing. And that's the true test

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Speaker 4: of the purity of it too, which is like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I don't I'm not doing it for that. I'm not

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Speaker 4: doing it for that. I'm doing it for the sole

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Speaker 4: purpose of helping this other person and in return, God

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Speaker 4: knows nobody else needs to know. That's what we've kind

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Speaker 4: of fallen away from in this very like on demand,

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Speaker 4: let's broadcast how good we are as human beings world.

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Speaker 4: Oh so, so it can become so it can feel

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Speaker 4: like a business because again, you you're literally having to

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Speaker 4: run it like a business because that's how it works.

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Speaker 4: But I think the thing that can then put fuel

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Speaker 4: in your tank is is doing the work that you

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Speaker 4: would normally like have a team on the ground doing.

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Speaker 4: That's what That's what for me, Yes, and I have.

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Speaker 3: But it's funny that you say that because I took

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Speaker 3: a really big time celebrity to Puerto Rico and we

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Speaker 3: had we had hundreds of houses to bring crisis kids

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Speaker 3: to and this person stayed for four hours with one

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Speaker 3: one one woman and held the.

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Speaker 2: Whole group up.

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Speaker 3: And I understand that that was their experience on the day,

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Speaker 3: but we literally had hundreds of people in chow to

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Speaker 3: help the most people. So it's it's there is a

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Speaker 3: balance in.

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Speaker 4: That because oh, well, that situation is totally different because yeah,

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Speaker 4: you're you're doing it for a reason and you have

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Speaker 4: it's a volume business.

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Speaker 2: I can't go help one pole, one person in Poland.

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Speaker 4: Right now, or no, no, no, no, no, yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 4: of course, I'm just talking about when you get drained,

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Speaker 4: that's how you refill your own or yourself.

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Speaker 2: You're just saying it's private, Moday.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I was speaking more about like you and

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Speaker 4: I No, I.

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Speaker 2: Agree, I agree. I knew what you were saying. But

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Speaker 2: it's funny.

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Speaker 3: It just becomes While I would also like to sit

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Speaker 3: and talk to that woman in her house, I would

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Speaker 3: love to do that, it's just not And that's why

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Speaker 3: sometimes I feel cold because when I'm doing talking about it,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean, You're not like a touchy.

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Speaker 4: About it at the end of the day. But I

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Speaker 4: do think someone once told me that our world is

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Speaker 4: designed like if you think of an army, everybody has

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Speaker 4: a purpose, right, So if we were designed to and

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Speaker 4: everyone has a role, you need a Bethany Frankel in

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Speaker 4: order to create the charity, the nonprofit that helps those

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Speaker 4: millions of people to hire the people that are on

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Speaker 4: the ground doing that, and like, we all have our

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Speaker 4: purpose here right right, and and we can't start to

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Speaker 4: you know, something that I tell myself is like, oh

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Speaker 4: I wish I was more of the other person. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I wish I was, like, you know, I wish I

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Speaker 4: was doing more of the work on the ground. I

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Speaker 4: feel this sore disconnected, but in reality, like, okay, if

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Speaker 4: there weren't a you, then that wouldn't be happening.

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Speaker 2: That's what my fiance says.

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Speaker 3: It's not it's guilt because I wanted to be in

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Speaker 3: Poland the first week and my partner was on the

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Speaker 3: border and said, we have no phone service. You have

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Speaker 3: to be doing all this And I'm the sort of

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Speaker 3: person that drives the whole opera. I'm the CEO of

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Speaker 3: this thing. And so I said to my fiance, I'm

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Speaker 3: not standing there. I'm not in the warehouse. He said,

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Speaker 3: I don't think the head of Coca Cola is putting

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Speaker 3: Coca Cola in bottles either right now.

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Speaker 2: So you have to be where you're just so there's

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Speaker 2: a level that's just I haven't.

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Speaker 3: Talked about that. That's interesting, But I want to hear

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Speaker 3: about your philanthropy. So you're you're I'm not.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't. I wouldn't consider myself a philanthropist more than

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Speaker 4: somebody who's just you know, I grow I was raised

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Speaker 4: in the ba High Faith. Bahalah says that every human

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Speaker 4: being must engage in an occupation or a trade, and

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Speaker 4: that trade must be their form of service. So for me,

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Speaker 4: I'm just like I'm just always looking for opportunities to

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Speaker 4: be of service with my privilege in my work. And

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Speaker 4: I just so happened to be able to create some

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Speaker 4: cool stuff in our business, which again I battle with

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Speaker 4: because I feel like I'm not doing anything and everyone's

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Speaker 4: far more successful than me. But that's my trauma speaking.

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Speaker 4: But what little I have done or to some a lot,

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Speaker 4: I just wanted to mean something more than just for

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Speaker 4: my ego or for my name, right for my brand,

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Speaker 4: if you will, all because we're all brands now, I

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Speaker 4: guess I want to. I want to, you know, I

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Speaker 4: want to leave something behind that is more than just

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Speaker 4: me creating things selfishly or to look good or or well.

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Speaker 3: You have that filter, you don't. I want to know

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Speaker 3: two things. What you are project or most proud of?

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Speaker 3: And is that a filter? You don't create or produce

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Speaker 3: or direct a project or write a project if it

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Speaker 3: doesn't if it's not cause driven, or.

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Speaker 4: I don't touch anything. If it's not cause driven, I

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Speaker 4: don't touch Okay.

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Speaker 3: So give me tell me one of tell me what

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Speaker 3: you think is the most influential or been the most

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Speaker 3: impactful cause driven project that you've created.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that's a great question. That's hard because everything is different.

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Speaker 4: I started I quit acting when I was twenty five

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Speaker 4: to make a documentary series called My Last Days, where

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Speaker 4: I traveled the country and I told the stories of

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Speaker 4: individuals who are dying of a terminal illness because I

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Speaker 4: wanted to help people remember that they don't have to

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Speaker 4: find out they're dying to start living.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Because we procrastinate to become the people we want to be.

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Speaker 4: We procrastinate to do everything. We always push everything off.

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Speaker 4: And I looking at this and I'm like, this doesn't

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Speaker 4: make any sense. Why am I doing this? I was

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Speaker 4: twenty five, I wasn't happy acting. I quit. I made

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Speaker 4: that show for four thousand dollars an episode. I lost everything.

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Speaker 4: My house went into foreclosure, and I was the happiest

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Speaker 4: that I'd ever been. And that show inspired my first film,

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Speaker 4: which was called Five Feet Apart, which was inspired by

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Speaker 4: a friend of mine who had cystic fibrosis. Five feet

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Speaker 4: apart before the world even knew what that was, staying

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Speaker 4: five feet apart. And you know, that movie went on

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Speaker 4: to make about one hundred million dollars around the world,

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Speaker 4: and it changed cystic fibrosis and awareness and saved lives

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Speaker 4: and all kinds of stuff, and that's super impactful. But

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Speaker 4: you know, and I made a movie called Clouds about

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Speaker 4: my other friend from that show on My Last Day, Zach.

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Speaker 4: That's on Disney, and we raised millions of dollars for osteosarcoma,

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Speaker 4: and that was a very special project. But then also

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Speaker 4: my work with masculinity and trying to help men help

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Speaker 4: and help myself regnize that we're enough as we are.

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Speaker 4: All of these things are are are both. There's a

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Speaker 4: double bottom line always. Of course, I want them to

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Speaker 4: be successful so that I can make more of them.

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Speaker 4: But I've always said, like when I first made that

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Speaker 4: documentary series My Last Days, my business partner at the

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Speaker 4: time and I were looking at the YouTube comments and

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Speaker 4: it was ten almost ten years ago on YouTube, and

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Speaker 4: it literally broke Upworthy's website. It was how Upworthy really started. Wow,

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Speaker 4: fourteen million views for a twenty two minute video. And

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Speaker 4: this was ten years ago when everybody was watching cat

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Speaker 4: videos and we're like, what is happening? And talk shows

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Speaker 4: are calling us, and like we had no infrastructure, and

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Speaker 4: we didn't know what we were doing. It cost ten

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars to make that thing. But one of the

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Speaker 4: comments said, I had tried to take my own life

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Speaker 4: multiple times and failed. I was going to take my

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Speaker 4: life today and I stumbled on this video and I

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Speaker 4: now know why I'm still here.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's the only thing you ever did in your life.

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Speaker 4: And so it was the if that was the and

435
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 4: that's what we've said. That's so that's what I've built

436
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 4: all of my stuff on, which is okay, if that

437
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 4: was it. Yeah, and I got one view. Yeah, it

438
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 4: might have been a colossal flop to the business. Yeah,

439
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 4: but how much is his life worth? That's amazing, And

440
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 4: that's the metric by which I'm building my studio and

441
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 4: we do everything. I mean, look mad enough. I had

442
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 4: a great deal with HarperCollins. They you know, paid me

443
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 4: really good money to write the book. I write the book,

444
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 4: and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. I

445
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 4: tried to get out of it multiple times and give

446
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 4: the money back, literally, and we finally get it done.

447
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 4: I'm nervous, I'm passionate about it. It's it's here, It's

448
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 4: for men and everybody's focused on it becoming a bestseller.

449
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 4: That's all anybody's talking about is, Yeah, how do we

450
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 4: get it on the New York Times list? How do

451
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 4: we get on the New York Times List? And everything

452
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 4: in me was like, this isn't why I wrote the book.

453
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 4: This isn't why I do anything. This is the system.

454
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 4: This is but no, but.

455
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: More you can more people will read it if it's

456
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: on the list, and you'll get another book deal. If

457
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 3: it's on you'll get another book people.

458
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 4: But do I want to be on that hamster reel Bethany?

459
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 4: And that's not it. And that's a question that we

460
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 4: don't ask ourselves often, is I don't want to do

461
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: They've offered me more book deals. I don't want to

462
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: do another I don't I don't need to do all

463
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 4: of it until it comes from a creative place and

464
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 4: I'm ready to do it.

465
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 2: I get it.

466
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 4: This was all about, But I remember it all being

467
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 4: about the best seller list because it helps, of course,

468
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,959
Speaker 4: it gets the message out more, it makes it, it

469
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 4: makes it all these things. And I knew I had

470
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 4: this feeling like I wasn't going to make the list.

471
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 4: It's a very nuanced topic it's about masculinity. Men are

472
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: not menoriz.

473
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: I wouldn't think it would make the list if I

474
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 3: heard the concept ahead of time, because it's women, who

475
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: are you know, the target audience.

476
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 4: So I that, well, men are the target audience of

477
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 4: the book.

478
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 3: No in the world, I'm saying, in this landscape and

479
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,239
Speaker 3: the talk shows, you're talking about the book and in

480
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 3: us we eactly, but yeah, it's women.

481
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 4: They're talking to so we and so we and so

482
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: they do all this press for it, and you know,

483
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 4: and and I actually, for a good month bought into

484
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 4: the hype and I was so focused on trying to

485
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 4: help this book become a bestseller. I'm reaching out to

486
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 4: all my celebrity friends. I'm doing all this some the mailings,

487
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, this is what Why am I

488
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 4: doing this? Right? I just want to reach that one man. Yeah,

489
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 4: And in many ways, I was like, I have this

490
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 4: feeling I'm not and I think it'll be better if

491
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 4: I don't, because I want to. I want to feel

492
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 4: that humility and be reminded of why I did this

493
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 4: in the first place. So, of course, interestingly enough, I

494
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 4: write a book. It's a nonfiction book, undefining my masculinity.

495
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: It's not a self help book, and the feeling is

496
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 4: probably somebody at the New York Times, a guy was

497
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 4: triggered by it. He put it in the self help category.

498
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 4: Of course I didn't make the list. Ironically, had it

499
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 4: been a nonfiction book, I probably would have debuted a

500
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 4: number two. Doesn't matter. The point was I didn't make

501
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 4: the list where everybody was disappointed, and I always fucking

502
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 4: relieved because you know what would have happened all then

503
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 4: it would have been about staying stay.

504
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: It's the hamster wheel.

505
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 4: It's the hamster wheel. And I said, oh, and now

506
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 4: the book stet a life of its own. It's moving,

507
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 4: it's touching people. I'm getting those individual messages from men.

508
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: Share.

509
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 4: A lot more women bought the book. Women bought it

510
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: for their men, and everybody wins in the end. I'm

511
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 4: grateful for that. So so, and it's a long tangent

512
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 4: to answer.

513
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 2: No, it's not I get it.

514
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 4: I get it. But that's how I think. That's how

515
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think about my place in this very

516
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: strange intersection of art and capitalism.

517
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: We want to do things for the right reasons, you

518
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: have to. It's like that philanthropy. You said doing on

519
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 3: your own. That's a private moment. You want to yourself

520
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: do it for the right reasons. Like Kelly, my book

521
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 3: is called Business is Personal because they're so intertwined. And

522
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: you know the blurbs. We need a blurb, We need

523
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 3: a blurb. A blurb? What's a blurb? You need a blurb?

524
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: You need to call fame.

525
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 4: OK.

526
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: I literally texted Kate Katie Kirk.

527
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: I was like, semi a book. I go, I go out,

528
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: she goes what I didn't read it? Just talk about me,

529
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: say something, say something true, and send me a book.

530
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: Kelly RiPP she was dealing with something with her mom.

531
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: I don't remember. Just send me a fucking blurb, Mark Cuban,

532
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: send me a blurb. I need a blurb. They want

533
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: a blurb, and then then they want.

534
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: The way read.

535
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: But right, I don't read the blurbs.

536
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 3: And then in six months or may, sorry, in two months,

537
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 3: they're gonna want me then to tell Kelly Rippa to

538
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: fucking tweet about it. But I'm not asking Kelly Ripple

539
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: to tweet about this. That is where my line is.

540
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: But I get it because but I feel bad because

541
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: I'm partners with the book industry people who it's so

542
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 3: hard to push something and and their asses are on

543
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: the line too. So you're on the wheel yourself. You

544
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: owe yourself to everybody.

545
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 4: And by stepping on the wheel you you become a

546
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 4: slave to it in many ways.

547
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 2: But don't be your sup up.

548
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: You only write books because it's a top. You're writing

549
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 3: books because it's a topic you want to pour out

550
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 3: of you, and then you start writing and then you

551
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 3: probably get bogged down. But I only write books because

552
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, I want to say this now, I'm ready

553
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: to talk. You get a book deal and then you

554
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: start talking, and then you're like, well, I don't want

555
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: to hear my.

556
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 2: Voice anymore, so you don't want to them promote it.

557
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 4: You're like over yourseles. Yet, Well, for me, it's a

558
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 4: little bit different, Bethany. I wish I had, I think

559
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: ten percent of your confidence. For me, it is it's

560
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 4: deeply personal, and the things I'm writing about, at least

561
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 4: what I wrote about in Man enough, I'm writing about

562
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 4: masculinity in a way that a lot of men haven't

563
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 4: talked about it because it's so hard, so personal from

564
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 4: stories that have happened to me when I was young,

565
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 4: embarrassing moments, you know, things from our bodies changing that

566
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 4: we never want to talk about, to even a traumatic

567
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 4: you know, sexual assault that I experienced when I lost

568
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: my virginity. These are things that men have never been

569
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 4: able to talk about. Now it's very and also tying

570
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: that into equality and how we should show up in

571
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 4: the world as men with not just women and queer

572
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 4: and trans people, but like with ourselves. How to make

573
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 4: this world a better place by becoming not just better men,

574
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: but better humans. This is a very personal, hard thing

575
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 4: because the whole point of writing the book was recognizing

576
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: how deeply unhappy I was, and how I was just

577
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 4: wanting to be liked and loved and seen by other

578
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 4: men and seen as enough in this world. And uh,

579
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 4: and by writing the book, it triggers other men and

580
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 4: the exact same thing ends up happening, where then I'm

581
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 4: mocked and demonized and told that I'm a you know,

582
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 4: all of the things that they call men like me

583
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 4: who are in touch with their feelings and emotional which

584
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 4: I believe you mean.

585
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: It's like metro or words like stuff like that.

586
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no, I'm talking about I'm talking about I'm

587
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 4: talking about things that more, you know, uh more, it's

588
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 4: more derogatory statements than that. Okay, well I don't care

589
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 4: if you call me metro or any of those.

590
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: No, But you know, I think it's such a great,

591
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: amazing topic because I read, you know, I have the

592
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 3: information here about some of the things you talk about

593
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: and some of the things you went through. But in

594
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: talking about masculinity, it's such a stereotype and you're only

595
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: allowed to you know, men aren't allowed to whine and

596
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: be as sick as women aren't. There was a man

597
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: I was at a spot and he was like, do

598
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: you have a blanket? I get really cold? And I

599
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: thought to myself, Oh, that's not very masculin, Like why

600
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: isn't a man allowed to get cold?

601
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Like I'm always getting cold.

602
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: It's such a double standard in so many different areas

603
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: where men have to act more stoic, hard yeah, hardcore,

604
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: because they're not allowed to be vulnerable in the same way.

605
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: So where does that go? Where does that go? That's

606
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 3: got to be trapping.

607
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: And where does it go? It turns into anger, it

608
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: turns into frustration, It turns into the reason men are

609
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: so violent, It turns into you know, when we can't cry.

610
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 4: Where does that go? It just goes deeper and deeper

611
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 4: and deeper and deeper, until one day the well bursts

612
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 4: and explodes.

613
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: Well that brings up the Will Smith thing, and it

614
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: brings up I want to talk to you quickly, not quickly,

615
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: but about the Will Smith's lap, but also the conversation

616
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: that he had with Jada when you know, she was like,

617
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 3: you knew about August, the guy who I guess she

618
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: was having an affair with, and Will was sitting at

619
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: the table and you may not have seen it, but

620
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: he was just like, oh, yeah, I knew about it.

621
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: But it felt like degrading, like he had to be like, yeah,

622
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: I knew that you were sleeping with somebody else, like

623
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: at a table, as if she was talking about something

624
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: that they should be able to just talk about in

625
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: front of millions of people, and.

626
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: You know, she was like, it.

627
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: Was just this weird conversation and it didn't seem the

628
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: stereo type of masculine for him to just sit there

629
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 3: and be in a discussion with Jada about the other

630
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 3: guy that she was hooking up with and that he

631
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: was presumably aware of it, and what this like triangle

632
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 3: was with them and then I connect that to him

633
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: sitting next to Jada and standing up and slapping another

634
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 3: human being, and you know that that's that's a man

635
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: saying that he's defending his woman and that he has

636
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: to protect his family because he's a man. And I'm

637
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: just curious what you think of that, like the whole thing.

638
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 4: Honestly, I think I don't really I might say it

639
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 4: might not be cool, but I don't really want to

640
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 4: comment on it because I feel like, here, here's what

641
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 4: I can tell you. There are so many layers to

642
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: this conversation that I don't know if two white people

643
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 4: can can can really enter and have an opinion about

644
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 4: With the exception of ah, we know that going up

645
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 4: on a stage and slapping somebody is not right. That's

646
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 4: very very clear. But you're talking about you know, when

647
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 4: I when I look at the situation, I'm looking at

648
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 4: from from multiple standpoints, from a from a place of

649
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: the way we have devalued black women in our society forever,

650
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 4: and how very few people stand up for them to

651
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 4: also the need for men in general, let alone black men,

652
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 4: to prove their masculinity. I mean, there are so many

653
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: systems at play that intertwine here and then intersect into

654
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 4: this that I don't really have a view on it

655
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: other than I wish I've always loved well Smith, and

656
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 4: I wish it didn't happen.

657
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: No, I love that you had that.

658
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: I love that you bring up that it's too black

659
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: men in that perspective.

660
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 4: It's really just a nuanced conversation that that. Honestly, I

661
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 4: just don't think. I just don't think as white people

662
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 4: we really have the frame of reference to be able

663
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 4: to unpack it because we have not lived in any

664
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 4: of the experiences that these people have, especially the black woman.

665
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: Okay, so Bradley Cooper gets up on the stage and

666
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 3: slaps Brad Pitt that that could happen. It could happen

667
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: as much as this happened.

668
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 4: We do I do have to I mean, I think

669
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 4: we do have to look at also, like you know,

670
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 4: there are acts of white violence and things like that

671
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 4: that happen all the time. You know, the conversations I

672
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 4: have is, you know, the second that that it's around

673
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 4: black folks, then it becomes this whole thing and there

674
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 4: are again there are just there are centuries of trauma

675
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 4: that exists underneath all of these things. And it's just

676
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 4: really hard. So again, it's it's just it's so much

677
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 4: more nuanced than like should he have done it? Should

678
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 4: he have not? Because also, yeah, you're bringing up stuff

679
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: that I'm not an expert on, like the situation that

680
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 4: happened with them. I don't know that I know. I mean,

681
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 4: I've known about it. But what I can tell you

682
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 4: is that in our society, here's what I can speak to.

683
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 4: In our in our world, in a in a patriarchal

684
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 4: h fantasy land that we're living in, I can tell

685
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 4: you firsthand that there there is a rage that happens

686
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 4: deep down in every man when he feels as if

687
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 4: he is being emasculated, right, which I believe is not

688
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 4: a real thing. I don't believe it's possible for one

689
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 4: to be emasculated because masculinity is not something that can

690
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 4: be taken away. Your femininity can't be taken away. I

691
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: can't feminate you your no, but.

692
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 3: I can feel masculine because I'm so tough, and that's

693
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: the constructs that have been created.

694
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 4: But I couldn't emasculate you, Bethany, How could you emasculate me?

695
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 4: Why is it that? Why? Why can masculinity be taken away?

696
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 4: Why does my masculinity.

697
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 2: Say to me?

698
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 3: How does someone handle You're so tough, you should soften

699
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: up a little or something like that, and that, Yeah, wow,

700
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: that makes me feel less feminine.

701
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 4: Well but no, but here's the thing. The reason they're

702
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 4: saying that to you is because of how you're going

703
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 4: to make someone else feel that's a man, you should. Oh,

704
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 4: I get it, but.

705
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: I still feel that feeling.

706
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: I can understand how the people use the term that

707
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: a man can feel immasculine. I understand what that means.

708
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 3: It's just the same.

709
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 4: I can understand it too. But I think the system

710
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 4: the problem is we're talking about an overarching idea that

711
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: one's masculinity.

712
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: Oh, Kenny, take it there totally, and it's got many

713
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: different definitions in terms to it.

714
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 4: And if I am going through my life raised in

715
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 4: this system that tells me that every day I have

716
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 4: to prove my masculinity, how am I going to act?

717
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 4: I'm going to be in a state of fireflight. I'm

718
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 4: going to be ready to fight. My nervous system is

719
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 4: always going to be on and I'm not going to

720
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 4: be able to take feedback from anybody. The second somebody

721
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 4: tells me that I can do better at something, or

722
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: that I failed at something, my defenses are going to

723
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 4: go up and I'm going to have to prove myself. Right.

724
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 4: We've seen this a lot with white fragility, as an

725
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 4: example in the conversation around race with men and women.

726
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 4: We don't want to be we don't want to be racist, right,

727
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: so we get all super defensive because God forbid, we

728
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: unconsciously said something or did something that hurt this other person, right, Like,

729
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 4: we can't be bad. Well, imagine as a man moving

730
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 4: through your life knowing that anywhere you go, you must

731
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: prove your worth, your value, your masculinity because if you don't, right,

732
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 4: we want to go back to the old days, like

733
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 4: to primalness. Someone can take your woman, someone can kill

734
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 4: your kids, all of that stuff. Well, today it's just

735
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 4: about value. Today, it's about I need to prove my

736
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 4: worth so that I'm seen as enough that I'm seeing

737
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 4: as a man.

738
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: I get that, and I also get that the undertow

739
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 3: of what could have been going on, and it could

740
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 3: have been the perfect storm that went on to get

741
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: up to that stage, but I don't. When I go

742
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: to the supermarket and I encounter one hundred different people,

743
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 3: they all have their own undertow. And if I'm only

744
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: in a supermarket where there's only one hundred African Americans

745
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: or you know, then they all have their own undertow.

746
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 3: But people can't just act out on that. I think

747
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: it talked about out Hollywood so many things.

748
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 4: When Hollywood all of it, there's an intersection, there's an

749
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 4: intersection of all of it.

750
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: I think it's just a woman needing to be defend

751
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: a woman, not just a black woman, a woman needing

752
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 3: to be defended by a man entitled Hollywood. Yes, rage

753
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: and things going on.

754
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: Put it all put a pot, makes it together.

755
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting soup. So I think I

756
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: like you because I think.

757
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: But just to my point, Bethany, that's what I go

758
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 4: back to is the only thing that I can share

759
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 4: from my personal perspective is knowing what it feels like

760
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 4: when my masculinity is being challenged and knowing that I

761
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 4: have done which is one of the reasons why I

762
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 4: wrote the book that I have over the course of

763
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 4: my life said things and done things and acted in

764
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 4: a way that I didn't want to act like because

765
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 4: I felt like I had to puff up.

766
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 3: Then you do well, you should speak on it because

767
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 3: you have a better perspective than most people do.

768
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 4: That's well, every man has that perspective, right, every man

769
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 4: knows knows the feeling of being challenged and needing to

770
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 4: step up and pup out there and do something performative

771
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 4: to earn that back. And then if you layer in

772
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: actual physical abuse, being young and seeing that you have

773
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 4: again this person, this this melting pot of all of

774
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 4: these traumas that coexist to form this unique situation. But

775
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 4: that is the experience of many men. Many men have

776
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 4: been taught that they solve their problems with their fists.

777
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: Right, you're not talking about the what you disagree with

778
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 3: the what You're just talking about.

779
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: The Oh, I'm not talking about the issue at all.

780
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 4: I'm talking about what's underneath the issue, which kind of

781
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 4: relates back to masculinity in my book, which is all

782
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 4: we all are told every single day that we have

783
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 4: to prove our masculinity. And my point is that I

784
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 4: don't believe masculation really exists because I don't think you

785
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 4: can take one's masculinity away. I think it's a perception,

786
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 4: and I think that's how we've been raised. I think

787
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: that you even admit it yourself. What you what you

788
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 4: talked about when you said, oh, well, why does that

789
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 4: that's not very masculine, that man doesn't want a blanket.

790
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: That's called internalized misogyny. Yeah, okay, And women experience this too.

791
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 4: Belle Hooks, the late great Bell Hooks, who was one

792
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 4: of the most prolific black feminist authors, writes about this

793
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 4: that in a system such as this, women experience internalized

794
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 4: misogyny as well, which then reinforces the need for us

795
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 4: men to be this way because when we're getting it

796
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 4: from men and then we get it from women, well,

797
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 4: how the hell are we going to ever change?

798
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: True.

799
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 3: It's so interesting because my fiance had a different feeling

800
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 3: when he first heard about this lap than he did

801
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 3: a day later. It was like lasagna the next day,

802
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: Like it just was different. He first was thinking, like

803
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 3: if someone said something bad about his mother or someone

804
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: around him, how he'd feel that rage inside, and how

805
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 3: you have to do something about it and pan your chest.

806
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 3: But obviously Intel actually knows that it's wrong. I think

807
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 3: it's a I think this is why it's so provocative,

808
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: this particular issue an incident, because it's bringing up so

809
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: many things that have nothing to do with celebs and

810
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: bullshit pop culture, just that have to do with human

811
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 3: beings between so many, so many things going on.

812
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 4: So that's why I would look at the way I

813
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 4: would look at it, Bethany, is that it's a Roschack test.

814
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 4: People are going to see what.

815
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: They see totally very interesting.

816
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: And that's how I kind of look at what happened.

817
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 4: But what I saw is I saw, I saw myself,

818
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 4: I saw I saw men that I loved, I I

819
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 4: saw that I saw I saw the pain of the

820
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 4: people in the audience. I felt. I mean, I'm an EmPATH,

821
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 4: I felt everybody and but that but that's how I

822
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 4: also moved through life. Yeah, that stuff, that stuff happens

823
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 4: every day. We just saw it in a way that

824
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 4: most people have not experienced it from people that they

825
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 4: would not expect it from. But this happens every single

826
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 4: day everywhere, and so now it's in our faces and

827
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 4: we have to look at it and wonder why why

828
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 4: was our reaction the way that it was. But I

829
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: don't think we can have that conversation without also including

830
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 4: all of the unique individual traumas that exist and gender.

831
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 3: And that love it. It's amazing, wow wow's and I

832
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: love I'm glad I asked you. See, you didn't have

833
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: an opinion, but you had an opinion. So the last

834
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 3: thing I wanted to ask you was your rose and

835
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 3: your thorn of your career.

836
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 4: That's so funny. Every single every day, every night I

837
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 4: ask my wife and I talk to our kids about

838
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 4: their roast and their thorn of the day.

839
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 2: We do too.

840
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 4: It's funny because I we always used to start with rose,

841
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 4: and then I was like, you know, I'm gonna start

842
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 4: with my thorn. I want to end with my rose.

843
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: We can add the kids. The pedal is like a

844
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: we just made it up.

845
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: The pedal is like a thing that you like to

846
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: see happen, like a you know, a goal or a

847
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: dream or something.

848
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 4: So my rose and thorn of my career thus far,

849
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm at the beginning of my career.

850
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 4: I would say my I would say my thorn isn't

851
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 4: an event or a thing. I would say, my thorn

852
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 4: has been my giving in my allowing the unconscious need

853
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: to be seen and valued, to accelerate the hamster wheel,

854
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 4: like to keep me on it, to keep me creating.

855
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 4: When I could have very well stepped back and said, no,

856
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 4: I've done enough for this month, or I need to

857
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 4: go to sleep. I think that I have fallen victim

858
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 4: to that system that only measures worth via productivity and

859
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 4: just kept going and prided myself in many ways on

860
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 4: being a machine. I used to get so puffed up

861
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 4: and feel so good about myself when people are like, dude,

862
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 4: you're like a how do you do this? You're like

863
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 4: a robot, You're like a machine. How do you keep going?

864
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 4: And I would feel amazing when someone said that, But

865
00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 4: machines break down. Machines do not live forever. And my

866
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 4: body started breaking down, and I started feeling the weight

867
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 4: and the pressure mentally and physically. And I don't pride

868
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: myself on being a machine anymore because a machine isn't human.

869
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 4: As men and boys, we've been taught that we need

870
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 4: to be more machine like than human like our entire lives,

871
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 4: when in reality, we need to be more human like.

872
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 4: Rest is important, doing nothing is important, Peace is important.

873
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 4: So that would be my thorn is for years and

874
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 4: years and years not listening to my body when it

875
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 4: said stop not listening when my kids needed me, and

876
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 4: I was like, now, not only send one more email,

877
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 4: which still happens. Yeah, not perfect. Yeah, that's my thorn

878
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 4: and existing thorn that I'm going to constantly be trimming

879
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: and working on and trying to pull out over the

880
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 4: course of my life. I would say, my roads. It

881
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 4: might not be a great answer for you, but here's

882
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: what's coming up. This is what I feel my bad

883
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 4: I would say my rose is acknowledging my thorn.

884
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's totally good.

885
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: I would say that my rose from my career is

886
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 4: acknowledging that I have that thorn and being aware of

887
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 4: it so that I don't let it drive me. Because

888
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 4: I could very easily have the type of personality where

889
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 4: I wake up when I'm eighty five one day and

890
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 4: I've accomplished so much and I've made millions of dollars,

891
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 4: But at what cost m H. And I would have

892
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 4: missed my life because I was so focused on the

893
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 4: producing aspect of it. That is the value that I

894
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 4: see in recognizing the thorn, and that would be the rose.

895
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: That's amazing. Wow, Well, it's been so great to meet

896
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 3: you and to talk to you and to go on

897
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 3: this little journey that anyway, thank you. Nowhere where I

898
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 3: thought we'd go. So that's what I love about it.

899
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 3: And it's great to talk to you.

900
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 4: It's so nice to meet you, and good luck with everything,

901
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 4: and thank you for doing all of your work from

902
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 4: that high level place.

903
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: And I hope, oh, thank you.

904
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 4: I hope every once in a while, getting your hands

905
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 4: dirty we'll reinvigorate you.

906
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely.

907
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: Oh it's so, let's talk to you. We'll have a

908
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 3: great day, and love to her family.

909
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: Bye. M M.

910
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: Justin is so kind and gentle and interesting and opinionated

911
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 3: and thoughtful, and I really enjoyed the conversation a lot.

912
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: Every conversation is so different, and it invariably goes in

913
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 3: a direction that I never knew it would. But I'd

914
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: like talking to people who dedicate their life to service

915
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 3: but still have success from I don't explain it, have

916
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: success from like what other people receive as a superficial metric,

917
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: meaning he's had commercial success, but everything that he does

918
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 3: is of service, which I really I think you can

919
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 3: do great things and still be successful and profitable, Like

920
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: it's what a great Isn't that the perfect convergence in

921
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: someone's life. I'm really glad that I asked Justin's opinion

922
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 3: on the Will Smith saga that continues because while when

923
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: it first happened, I did think about the joke, the undertow,

924
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 3: the subtext, the meaning, the anger, the preamble, the history

925
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: that we don't know about either between them and making jokes,

926
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: et cetera.

927
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 2: It also.

928
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 3: Chris Rock handled himself with grace and dignity that needs

929
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 3: to definitely be said. But you know, I'm not a

930
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: black man, and I don't know what that feels like.

931
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: And I don't know what Will Smith is going. I

932
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 3: don't know what So many of us are so appalled

933
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 3: and outreached by what happened that we're not thinking about

934
00:46:55,640 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 3: what happened before, because you know, when you take a

935
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: situation too far, when you push something too far, you

936
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 3: close off the conversation. Meaning I've said this before, and

937
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: Will Smith gotten on stage and won his award and said,

938
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,959
Speaker 3: I just want to mention that I think what Chris

939
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: said was probably unintentionally but definitely hurtful and disrespectful because

940
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: alopecia is this, and you know, he doesn't have to

941
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 3: go into his whole life and his back history with

942
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: his wife and infidelity or whatever's enraging, and that we

943
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: don't even know about. But he could have said something

944
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 3: and then the conversation would have been about alopecia, and

945
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 3: Chris Rock would have not been in the best part

946
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 3: of that dynamic. So you can flip things upside down

947
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 3: by what you do. So while it's great to have

948
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 3: the luxury of thinking about all of the things that

949
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: go into who somebody is when they do something and

950
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 3: have compassion for that, you know what about Jesse Smillett,

951
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 3: not that that's the same thing. Are we having compassion

952
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 3: for what he's done? And we have a compassion for

953
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 3: Harvey Weinstein or Matt Lower or Roman Polanski or Kanye

954
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 3: when he took away Taylor's award or Mike Tyson when

955
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 3: he bit off Evander Holyfield's ear.

956
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: Because Michael Rapport brought that up in.

957
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: His podcast so much, how much license are we giving

958
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: to people for what's going on ahead of time? They mean,

959
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 3: Megan Kelly, of all people, was talking about privilege and

960
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 3: how people got one hundred and forty thousand dollars gift back.

961
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 3: So it's kind of hard to think about the plight

962
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: of Will and Jada with what's going on in the world.

963
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 3: Everything is relative. I'm sure, he's pain is as real

964
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: as someone else's, but it's hard when you're walking out

965
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: with one hundred forty thousand dollars gift back to think

966
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: about oh Warwill and what he's been through as an

967
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: oscar winning man whose wife has had an affair and

968
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 3: who is a black man and what that has entailed.

969
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: So it's just hard. You have to conduct yourself in

970
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: a certain way unless you're certified, like you know you

971
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: have to. You can't just do what you want. Sometimes

972
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 3: I want to be a bitch. Sometimes I want to,

973
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 3: you know, slap somebody like I literally Sometimes you're like,

974
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: I would like to get too a fire right now,

975
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 3: so you curse somebody out. You feel that, you feel

976
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 3: that at the you feel that if you haven't slept,

977
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 3: you feel it if you're PMS, you feel that, if

978
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 3: you have menopause, you feel that you're at the fucking market.

979
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: You've been driving hours, you've worked five jobs, you're exhausted.

980
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 3: You feel that you can't act on So while it's

981
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 3: interesting to bring up what's going on with someone, they

982
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 3: didn't create a space where we could think about that,

983
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 3: because you just can't act irrational.

984
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: So that's what I say. About that.

985
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: So anyway, thank you for listening. Remember to rate, review

986
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: and subscribe, and tell me your rose and your thorn,

987
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: for your clear or your life wherever you want. So

988
00:49:39,800 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 3: have a great day and thank you. Got to pick

989
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: up of her